The LIFE-EXTENSION Doctor: "The ONE thing that's increasing your chance of early-death by 170.8%!"

going from zero activity to just 90. minutes a week is about a 15 reduction. in all cause mortality Jesus Christ Dr. Peter attia world-renowned physician. doctor for anything performance or. longevity related he has the secret for. living a long healthy and happy life. most people listening to us are going to. die in cardiovascular disease cancer. diabetes if we want to really figure out. a way to live longer we need a totally. different Playbook how early do some of. these diseases begin the minute you're.

born but we only really think about the. risk over a 10-year time Horizon as a 30. year old you don't get excited about. exercise in your sleep but there's a 400. percent higher risk of dying in the. coming year when you compare the fittest. two and a half percent to someone at the. bottom 25 in the coming year and then. once you hit the age of 65 if you fall. and you break your hip there's a 15 to. 30 percent chance you will be dead. within the next 12 months really you. have to realize is you're taking this.

for granted when you talk about the. deterioration of Health you have these. three categories emotional health. deterioration why have you included that. because despite being very physically. healthy I was not living a good life I. was in such an awful cycle of anger. workaholism that I don't think my. marriage would have survived I realized. I don't want to be this person and lose. my kids I don't think I could have. survived it and I'm sure many people. listening to us can relate were you able. to discover the root cause of that more. than that I was able to get rid of it.

how so what you really need to do is. what are the biggest misconceptions in. your mind about weight loss I have. thought a lot about this so. Dr Peter attia he is the man that wrote. the book on how to live a long happy and. healthy life and he argues that. everything we know about health and what. that actually means health of the Mind. the body and the emotions is wrong and.

outdated. he says that there's disease growing in. you and me right now. but the problem is. because we can't see it we're doing. nothing about it Dr Peter's work turns. the light on. it allows you to see. that in many cases. in action now will increase your chance. of disease and a much shorter Life by 70.

percent. 170 percent and in some cases if we. don't take action Now by 400 percent. I've had lots of conversations on this. podcast about health about diet about. all of these things. but for many of you. this one will be the one that changes. your life this will be the one that. makes you ask some difficult but. important questions about your health. and what health means for you I walked.

away from this conversation realizing. that if I don't take action now. I'm going to be forced to take action. then. and I can unequivocally say that this. conversation has changed my life. I have a suspicion it's going to change. yours. [Music]. Peter. [Music]. Dr Peter.

you talk about so much in your work I've. been through every interview you've done. your book other conversations you've had. you talk about a lot so many things that. I'm absolutely fascinated by. my first question for you is. what is your mission and why are you. doing this I think that. um there is no. greater. um desire for people than to be healthy.

especially when you consider how we can. define health more broadly than just. physical health wins you can include. kind of emotional health. it's kind of the great equalizer and. nothing else really matters if you don't. have it right so it doesn't really. matter if you're famous or not famous it. doesn't matter if you're rich or poor if. if your health is compromised and. anybody who's been through an illness. where their health has been compromised. I think we'll realize in a moment.

what they've taken for granted and I. I've just become personally endlessly. fascinated by this topic and. in my own. quest to understand this better and. better. the next natural step was to begin to do. it as a doctor right to begin to kind of. help patients with this. and at some point. you can only treat so many people and so. podcasting and ultimately writing a book. just became a way to put as much of that. information as possible out there for.

more and more people to access. do you know why U of old people became. fascinated by this was there a stuff. dominoes that fell I think so yeah I. mean I think. um. you know I'd always been interested in. performance. um because I'd always you know at least. as as far back as you know being 12 or. 13 years old. you know I'd always been obsessed with. one form or another of some sort of. physical Obsession whether it be you. know boxing when I was really young or.

Marathon swimming later in life. but when my daughter was born when I was. 35 that. was the first time that everything kind. of pivoted and I had a little bit of a. glimpse into the future I would say and. I just sort of realized oh you know. the The Joy I'm experiencing In This. Moment is so. surprising to me so unanticipated and. I really want to be able to experience. this again.

means not just with other children of. mine but potentially with grandchildren. and on top of that I had a bit of a. wake-up call which was I realized that. all the men in my family died. prematurely of heart disease obviously I. knew that fact before this time but I. think it was the Confluence of those two. things it was the realization that yeah. you know if you don't figure something. out and do something about this you're. probably going to die of heart disease. in your 60s which is not that far from. now you know 25 30 years from now and.

you now really have a motivation to live. longer and to live better longer. and so that in many ways kind of began. the change in my direction my focus to. to being one that was not purely just. focused on performance anymore but sort. of focused on understanding Health in a. different way. this concept of medicine 3.0 is a. concept which I only discovered in your. work never had the time used before. um.

what is medicine 3.0 and how did you get. to the point when you realized that. there needed to be an iteration on the. current system of Medicine. yeah the reason I think you hadn't heard. of it before is I don't think it's been. described before so you can't be faulted. for that. um but as I began writing the book and. thinking about how. I was practicing and how people like me. practice. I realized that it is a very distinct. change from the current form of Medicine.

and in a way to not be just critical of. the current form of medicine I had to. put it in the context of what existed. even before that and that's how I sort. of realized well we're in this version. of medicine called medicine 2.0 but it's. following something called medicine 1.0. and it's an enormous Improvement above. that so maybe I can spend a moment just. kind of explaining what those three are. and I think that's probably the easiest. way to explain the current form so. um.

medicine 1.0 is everything that existed. before we really understood the science. of Medicine. so for most of human history we had no. idea why people got sick or why people. died or what an infection meant and we. sort of thought that these were plagues. from the gods or things of that nature. but a couple of things happened in the. past. you know 100 few hundred years the first. was the idea of a scientific method.

something that we take for granted today. where you can make an observation about. something in the world formulate a guess. called a hypothesis about why it's. happening and then design an experiment. to test it that's called the scientific. method. that's an invention that's a creation we. had to figure that out. also things like a light microscope. which you know up until 140 years ago or. so didn't exist allowed scientists and. doctors to be able to actually see these. microscopic things called bacteria and.

then ultimately the development of. things like antibiotics and eventually. vaccines all of these things made an. enormous difference in reducing the. suffering and death due to what I call. in the book Fast death. so fast death is pretty much how we used. to all die. fast death would be trauma and infection. and up until. about 150 years ago life expectancy. would have been high 30s low 40s and.

most of us succumbed to fast death. but with the Advent of medicine 2.0. through all those transitions I just. described. in the span of a few Generations we've. doubled life expectancy right so now. life expectancy is roughly twice what I. just said a minute ago. and most people do not die from Fast. death. but it's been supplanted by slow death. today most people listening to us are. going to die from cardiovascular disease.

from cancer Dementia or other. neurodegenerative diseases complications. of diabetes. and on the one hand that's a sign of. progress it means like Hey we're living. long enough to die from those things but. we've made scant progress against those. things. in fact if you go back and. strip out the top eight causes of. infectious death or communicable death. death from communicable diseases or.

infectious diseases today if you strip. them out our life expectancy is not much. better than it was in the 1800s. in other words that doubling of life. expectancy that we've experienced comes. almost exclusively to the reduction of. those fast deaths and has little to do. with any success we've had against slow. death. if we want to really figure out a way to. live longer and I would argue more. importantly live better meaning when. we're in the last Decades of our life. not be in a state of total decline we.

need a totally different Playbook. and that Playbook is medicine 3.0 and it. involves real prevention so that means. taking True step steps at prevention. very early in life. it also involves being very personalized. in how you do things so it means you. can't just do paint by numbers you can't. just sort of say the same thing to. everybody. clearly there are certain things that. make absolute sense across the board. such as sleep and exercise you know but.

the way you might use medications is. going to have to be much more tailored. to an individual. you say that there are there are four. points to Medicine 3.0 which is the. prevention the being unique in your. treatment. um to each individual an honest. assessment and acceptance of risk yeah. one of the things that I don't think we. think enough about as doctors sometimes. is is risk right now I think doctors are. very good at thinking about the risk of. doing something yeah.

um I think you know usually a doctor is. pretty good at understanding you know if. you have this surgical procedure there's. a risk of an infection there's a risk of. bleeding there's a risk of all these. things if you take this medicine there's. a risk of this side effect or that side. effect. but I don't think we spend enough time. thinking about the risk of not acting or. the risk of not acting when we do. so this is where I think it gets a bit. more nuanced. um. prevention doesn't come without risk.

right I mean you're still going to have. to do something in in the state of. prevention. um so the question is understanding the. time Horizon upon which you're. considering risk. so I'll give you one very specific. example. um. at least in the U.S and it might be the. same in the UK. um. we only really think about the risk of. heart disease over a 10-year time. Horizon so look at someone like you.

you're 30 years old right so. what is your 10-year risk of having a. heart attack. I can tell you without knowing anything. about you it's really low good it's as. close to zero as we could have in. medicine. but what if I did a blood test on you. and I found biomarkers in there that. were predictive of very high risk later. in life. now that would be actually quite. possible there's there's about a one in.

ten chance you might have a biomarker. called LP little a for example which is. just a certain lipid in your body about. a one in ten chance you have that. dramatically increases your risk of. cardiovascular disease my uncle died. very early I believe in his 50s of a. cardiovascular disease interesting. so knowing that by the way could be. helpful because that would prompt me to. ask you more questions and want to know. more about all the people in your family. so here we have a 1 in 10 chance and by.

the way we wouldn't leave it to chance. we would just check it and we let's say. we checked your level and you had that. you had that lipoprotein or you had an. elevated level of another lipoprotein. APO lipoprotein little B and again these. are kind of technical terms but they're. very common things and they're easy to. measure. the medicine 2.0 view here would be well. there's nothing wrong with you now and. there's not going to be anything wrong. with you for the next 10 years. we don't need to do anything about it. conversely if I take a lifetime view of.

risk I would say. yeah but the risk to something happening. in the next 40 years is actually quite. significant. so my risk of doing nothing is probably. much higher than my risk of doing. something today so my risk of doing. something today would be non-zero but. small but my risk of doing nothing if I. take the appropriate time Horizon is. much bigger this is one of the things in. your book that really really got me. thinking was I have to say and I believe.

a lot of people probably feel the same. way I've gone through my life thinking. to some degree I'll worry about avoiding. these diseases later I'll I'll when I. get to 45 then I'll start taking this. thing seriously because then I'm getting. into that territory where most people I. know that get cancer or Alzheimer's or. all of these cardiovascular things. that's when it tends to happen so I'll. think about it then. totally understandable. um and I'll frame this in the context of.

a question I get asked all the time. which is hey Peter when is the best time. to start thinking about this stuff. and I say look I can't answer that. because there are two competing issues. that are crossing. when I meet somebody who's in the last. decade of their life. do you know how much they are thinking. about this like it's all they're. thinking about. it's all they're thinking about every. minute of every day is a confrontation.

with their own mortality. the problem is. they don't have much time. to change the direction of the ship you. may recall in the book I write the sort. of I use the metaphor of the Titanic. right. it's not that the Titanic didn't see the. iceberg it's that it didn't see the. iceberg in time it didn't have enough. Runway to really move out of the way and. that's why the Titanic gashed the side. of the boat. now at the other end of the spectrum a.

30 year old like you has unbelievable. potential to change the Arc of your life. you have so much runway to. through manipulating nutrition and. exercise and sleep and stress and all of. these things to completely alter the to. the disease trajectory of your life. the problem is and I'm not just speaking. to you personally but more broadly to. someone who's as young as you it's.

harder to find the motivation because. there are no reminders of your own. mortality you're Superman. right the worst thing that happens to. you is a hangover so I always get asked. like when is the right time to start. worrying about this and the short answer. is look as soon as possible but then. there's a reality that says for most. people it's not until they're in their. 40s. maybe once they have kids that they. start to appreciate their own mortality. and that that provides some of the.

motivation. to say you know. maybe I'll be a little less focused on. optimizing everything for today. and I'll start thinking a little bit. about tomorrow so again another way to. think about this is saving for. retirement. a lot of people in their 20s and 30s who. are making good money aren't necessarily. taking the most prudent Financial steps. to ensure Financial Freedom when they're. in their 70s. because let's be honest it's more. enjoyable to spend money today than to.

set some of it aside. but there are a lot of people later in. life who think I wish I was a little bit. more responsible earlier on how early do. some of these disease if you looked at. my sort of metabolic health or if you. were able to look inside my body which. I'm sure you're able to do how early do. some of these diseases begin. in my in my life at what age do you see. some of these things coming yeah it's. super interesting because. there are some elements of you as a. person that are going downhill the.

minute you're born. and there are others that are not so. let's let's use two examples. let's start with something where your. body is getting better and better and. um you know you're probably only peaking. now but you haven't really started to. age. um your muscle quality okay so when you. were five years old. your muscle quality was nothing like it. is today. but as you enter your 20s the quality of.

those muscle fibers these type two one. these type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers so. these are kind of slow to fatigue but. high endurance fibers are the type one. fibers the type two fibers are very very. powerful but they're kind of quick to. fatigue the quality of both of those. fibers is very high and the more you. train them the higher quality they will. be. but as you enter your 30s you will now. start to experience a shrinkage of those.

type 2 muscle fibers you will be less. powerful in your 30s in your late 30s. especially than you were in your mid to. late 20s so that's a form of Aging you. are declining it's not an accident that. the most powerful athletes in the world. are at their peak in their late 20s and. early 30s so sprinters for example. that's a prime example of a pure pure. Power Sport. um. we look at other things like more of.

your muscular endurance that will Peak. even a little bit later you can keep. that going a little bit later. we look at certain forms of cognition so. if we look at something called fluid. intelligence right this is raw. horsepower processing speed you have. more of it right now than I do meaning. you're going to have faster processing. speed better memory all of these things. are going to be better when you're 30. than at my age I'm 50. because that's. already started to decline in me.

there are some things however that began. Aging in you the minute you were born. and one of them is actually going back. to this idea of atherosclerosis or. cardiovascular disease well that's an. example of a disease process that begins. right away at Birth and even though it. almost never rears its head as far as. death before you're 50 make no mistake. about it it's starting on day one. and we know this by the way because when. we look at studies of people who die for.

completely unrelated reasons so somebody. who you know dies in a car accident or. soldiers dying in war and we look at. their the arteries of their heart we. already see quite Advanced disease so. the truth of it is you already have. pretty significant disease in your. coronary arteries it hasn't risen to the. level of ever causing a heart attack and. it's unlikely to do so for another 20. years maybe even another 30 years but. it's compounding it is compounding.

exactly and if you want to live to be 90. free of cardiovascular disease it makes. a big difference if you can slow it down. when you're in your 20s and 30s. interesting. that's really what I'm trying to change. in myself is I'm trying to find the. motivation like you said when we're not. confronted with our mortality it's. interesting because my life changed. because of the pandemic in part because. I got to see. um the relationship between.

things like obesity poor metabolic. health and mortality for the first time. and that's really when I started working. out every pretty much every day now it. was three years ago in. March 2020 2020 when I was watching the. TV and it was that confrontation of like. oh my God the reason why I'm having a. better outcome with this disease is. because I'm in better metabolic Health. metabolic shape and it's funny that it. has to take those things in our lives. for us to make the changes quick one.

before we get back to this episode just. give me 30 seconds of your time. two things I wanted to say the first. thing is a huge thank you for listening. and tuning in to the show week after. week means the world to all of us and. this really is a dream that we. absolutely never had and couldn't have. imagined getting to this place. secondly it's a dream where we feel like. we're only just getting started and if. you enjoy what we do here please join. the 24 of people who watch this channel. regularly and have hit the Subscribe. button means more than I can say and if. you hit that subscribe button here's a.

promise I'm gonna make to you I'm gonna. do everything in my power to make this. show as good as I can now and into the. future we're going to deliver the guests. that you want me to speak to and we're. going to continue to keep doing all of. the things you love about the show. thank you thank you so much back to the. episode when you talk about the. deterioration of Health you have these. three categories cognitive decline. um decline in loss and function of our. physical body and then emotional health. deterioration why emotional health. deterioration. why why have I included that yeah why.

have you included that well I mean maybe. I'll just take a step back and say where. I kind of put these all in perspective. so. you know the the title of the book right. is outlive the science and art of. longevity and what is longevity well. longevity is really about two things. it's about the length of life. and the word for that is lifespan but. it's about the quality of life and the. word for that is Health span and it's. Health span that has those three. components you just described Health.

span meaning quality of life is. determined by your cognitive function so. what's your processing speed what's your. executive function what's your memory. all of these things it's determined by. your physical health. how much strength do you have are you. free from Pain how much endurance do you. have what what capacity do you have to. do whatever you want to do physically. are you Limited in any way by pain. strength movement balance. Etc and then the final piece is.

emotional health what's the state of. your relationships are you do you have. joy in your life do you have a sense of. purpose are you happy. um not all the time right do but do you. have the capacity to regulate your. emotions and so now to answer your. question why would that be included well. the truth of the matter is it wasn't. something I always included right it. wasn't something I necessarily thought. much about. until it was I think very starkly.

pointed out to me by a very astute. therapist who. in observing my own struggles in life. said something to the effect of isn't it. really ironic that you are putting so. much energy into. helping people live longer and yet you. are paying no attention to your own. misery. and I think that was you know and that. was about six years ago and that was. kind of when I realized I needed to.

rethink my approach to this problem and. as I write about in the book I think I. would make the case today that if your. emotional health is suffering none of. the others really matter that much. so what you really need to do is think. about a way to have all of these things. in order what does she mean by your own. misery. well I mean I think at that point in my. life I mean. I there's there's no two ways about it I. mean I was just incredibly miserable.

incredibly angry. um despite being very physically healthy. right despite doing all of the important. things to be physically healthy right. exercising uh you know. in all the right ways eating well. sleeping well optimizing every aspect of. my health but but living living a bad. life. what were the symptoms of that what were. the kind of for you to start to spot. that because sometimes we don't know in. our own behavior and sometimes it's. reflected back on from other people.

we'll get feedback from our wife or our. girlfriend yeah I mean. Detachment from others. um. prone to anger workaholism selfishness. you know it wasn't it wasn't subtle it. wasn't like hmm I wonder if you know I'm. not being my best self no if I if I was. being honest and confronting it I was. not I was not living a good life did you. know that in the moment had I asked you. in the moment are you happy what would. you have responded.

I think I would have probably said. to just that question sure. right but but I think to a deeper. prodding. um. no and and there were there were a lot. of things that happened in there but but. certainly a very powerful one was going. to the funeral of. um. a woman my age who was the mother of my.

daughter's best friend. so my younger daughter's best friend her. mom died of cancer and so all the. parents you know we're at the free we're. at the funeral. and at the time I was. you know. really going through a lot of difficulty. um in my own marriage and. this woman who died was a very. successful lawyer.

um really pretty remarkable. and I was. really sort of struck how at the funeral. people had the nicest things to say. about her what a beautiful mother she. was she had three kids. and. nobody talked at all about her career. like there was not a single word about. her achievements in life it was only a. discussion about the quality of her Life.

as a mother. and that might sound very obvious. because when was the last time you were. at a funeral where they talked about. someone's career accolades. but that in a moment really fused. an idea from a book I had just read by a. guy named David Brooks called the road. to character. I don't have you read it. in the book David Brooks talks about. this idea of there being. um resume virtues and eulogy virtues.

and I really understood in that moment. that my entire life at that moment had. been only predicated on bolsting my. resume virtues I had never spent a. moment thinking about my eulogy virtues. and at that moment to your question if. someone had asked me how is your eulogy. I would have been brutally honest and. said it is awful.

there is not a single nice thing anybody. who matters about me in other words of. the people who should matter most they. won't be able to say anything nice about. me. is that painful to admit. yes it's painful to admit today and it. was painful to acknowledge then. wow I'm so impressed that you're able to. because I thinking about cognitive. dissonance and how psychologically.

uncomfortable that must be to face. you hint in the book about I think it. was in the last chapter of the book you. start hinting about. the origins of that behavior the. workholism and all of those things and I. can totally relate I think I'm a total. workaholic I think I sacrifice too much. in the pursuit of like accolades. sometimes in my life everyone knows me. including these guys will all say that. about me. um and I've often tried to in hindsight. figure out where that came from in me. and undo that.

it's funny because reading this book the. last chapter I actually wrote in my. notes remember I just wrote Because the. chapters called emotional health I wrote. brackets trauma and the role that trauma. plays I didn't expect to find. that subject matter in this book about. longevity. um what's your thoughts on the role. trauma plays and how we go about. understanding it so that we can live a. have a long Health span.

I think there's probably a lot of people. who can relate to the stuff I write. about in the Final Chapter and you're. right that chapter is. a significant deviation from the first. 16 chapters so there's 17 chapters in. the book and. I I basically make the argument that I. am the doctor for 16 of them the first. 16 I'm talking about this. as though I'm the doctor you're the. patient I'm going to help you and this.

is how to do all this stuff and then in. the Final Chapter I'm saying actually. now I'm the patient and I'm going to. kind of walk you through this journey. I've had and hope that it basically. motivates each of you to have a similar. examination of yourselves. and um. I I think that many people I can't tell. you what fraction of people but I think. many people have maladaptive behaviors. in their life that are indirectly or.

directly the response to. something that we would Define as trauma. and and Trauma is a very vast uh concept. right I think it's very easy when you. hear the word trauma to think of abuse. and you know that can be physical abuse. sexual abuse spiritual abuse these. things like that and it's true I did. experience abuse in my life. um. but trauma can be much more than that. trauma can be abandonment uh enmeshment.

witnessing tragic things so there are. lots of things that are traumatic I. discussed them in the book and. what happens to children who are. traumatized and it can also happen to. adults but I think most often the. formative years of our lives are when. these things happen. is we we adapt and I think that's the. kind of remarkable thing about us is how. adaptive we are.

and those adaptations. can often be very positive. but a lot of times they have negative. collateral or maladaptive. consequences in addition. and some of those adaptations that are. negative are addictions some of them are. other maladaptive behaviors like anger. some of them include you know things. like codependencies so you can sort of. look at people and realize that hey you.

know maybe that person who grew up in. the home of Alcoholics even if. it was an otherwise reasonably. well-meaning home and it's not like they. were getting hit with a belt buckle. every night but they weren't getting the. type of attention that they needed. and their adaptation was to have an. attachment disorder that wouldn't. manifest itself really fully until they. were apparent so. this this type of analysis really I.

think everybody needs to spend some time. thinking about it and needs to spend. some time asking themselves hey which of. my behaviors are maladaptive and it's. something that's done and I think it. needs to be done without judgment this. isn't about saying I'm a bad person. because of X Y and Z even though I think. I can objectively look back at my own. behaviors at that time in my life and. say those are awful behaviors I'm not. proud of those behaviors but it's. separating the behavior from the self. it's not saying I'm a horrible human. it's saying I'm a human who did horrible.

things and I want to understand why I. love that approach because I think about. the maladaptive Behavior patterns I had. that stood in the chance stood stood in. the way of my chance of emotional health. and good relationships and a lot of. those stem back to my childhood and. um what I witnessed in my home and then. distort the way that made me adapt and. the beliefs it gave me about romantic. relationships for example so I became. totally avoidant of those until later in. my life when I realized this pattern. um the third point in your in your list.

of things that. cause sort of I guess longevity of one's. Health span is that emotional health. deterioration so before we get into the. other two my question really was on that. third point of emotional health. what for you has helped you to. um self-analyze and become aware and to. then get those things out of your way. that stand a chance of. costing you your emotional health was it. therapy was it introspection is it. journaling is it honesty with oneself.

well I mean in my case I think the. situation was so far gone that I. actually had to go away. on two occasions. um so I I had to go away in uh in it the. first time for two weeks uh to an. inpatient like what's called a. residential care facility which was two. weeks of. like 14 straight days of 14 hours a day. just doing trauma therapy in group and.

individually. and uh you know two weeks might not. sound like a long time but boy that was. about the most. brutal exhausting thing I'd ever done in. my life. and then again. I had to do it for three weeks at a. different facility so again 21 days of. inpatient treatment but also now really. learning what the tools were to manage. myself how do I fix that behavior how do.

I how do I manage it so sort of like you. have an injury you go to rehab you know. there's an acute healing phase but then. there's a well now you want to make sure. you're strong and that you don't injure. it again because that injury took place. because of some weakness and and that's. not not a Perfect Analogy but the point. is you know there's a reason that you're. shoulder separated yeah and we want to. make sure it doesn't happen again even. once you're better and you sent yourself. there twice yes and no I mean truthfully.

I don't think I had a choice I don't. think my I don't think my marriage would. have survived so I I think it was. um. I'm not sure I had a choice truthfully. so I went very reluctantly. I did not want to go. but it was there was a an ultimatum. essentially yeah. wow. what was the greatest sort of gift that. process gave you. oh it gave me my life.

I mean it literally saved my life really. for sure. how. well I don't think. I don't think I would I just don't think. I'd be alive today without it right I. think had I lost I mean I was on such a. I was on I was in such an awful cycle of.

Shame and self-loathing and. deterioration that. I don't think I could have survived it. so was that that was a narrative in your. head at the time that you when you talk. about shame and self-loathing that's. what the the voice in your head was. yeah the the voice is. you are an awful human being that's why. you behave this way and. there's nothing that can be done about.

it you you're born this way you you are. defective. and this is what defective people do. look in many ways it's a lack of. accountability right. it's sort of saying. you have no agency in this. you you can't change this because you. are you're defective when they do an. autopsy on you they will see something. in the temporal lobe of your brain that. explains your pathology. were you able to discover the root cause. of that narrative in your head.

yes absolutely. and and more than that I was able to get. rid of it really yeah. I'll give you one very tangible example. I had. a very very vocal inner critic. um and I think I'm sure many people. listening to us can relate to that which. is you know I was such a perfectionist I. was such a workaholic. but any mistake I made I would.

eviscerate myself verbally. so and this was I mean this is mistakes. that don't matter okay so one of my. hobbies is archery I love archery so. every day almost every day certainly if. I'm not traveling I'm going to be out in. the backyard shooting my bow and arrow. now does anybody else care. nobody right is this my livelihood. depend on this no.

but if I'm not shooting well. I am screaming at myself. I will break an arrow over my thigh and. these are carbon arrows they'll leave. welts the size of your finger. one of the exercises we had to do. was. and this was once I left the second. therapy place that was three weeks. so the one of the big realizations there. was that this was happening because that. voice like I didn't realize that that.

was unusual. so the exercise was. every single day until this voice goes. away. which I thought would never happen which. meant I thought I was signing up to do. this exercise for the rest of my life. you take out your phone. and you talk into the phone with a. replacement voice for that voice. and pretend you're talking to your. closest friend as if it were them who. made the mistake.

and I say. hey Chris. I know you're having a bad day today. I can tell it's hard you're not shooting. well. it's okay. you know what some days it's just not. going to go well. plus it is a little windy today let's be. honest it makes it a bit harder and. why don't we just pack it up and come. back and try again tomorrow you know. just talk in a kind way talk in the way. you would literally speak to your friend. and then I would send that recording to.

my therapist. so every day my therapist is getting. multiple versions of these voicemails. but this is important because I'm. audibly doing this. multiple times a day. and. within about four months. The Voice just went away really yeah. let's never come back. how has it changed you as a father oh my. God it's a it's a it's a it hasn't. changed me as a person right as a father.

as a husband as as a boss as a friend I. mean it's it's just. um again it makes me a little sad to. think oh God I wish I knew this when I. was I wish I wish I did this at 25 you. know instead of. all of this. again I just think of all of the. collateral damage in my life. you know all of the people near me who. have suffered. unnecessarily as a result of. you know.

of of of of me being a wrecking ball. um how much of that could have been. prevented in some ways this kind of. comes back to your very first question. right which is I'm 30 I'm Invincible how. do I get excited about this look maybe. the answer is as a 30 year old you don't. need to get excited about. you know. your nutrition and exercise in your. sleep as much as a 50 year old does but. a there's a lot of benefit to doing so. because you'll get more benefit from it. but maybe it's just focusing on.

emotional health so that you get. yourself fixed before you start a family. because I think you know and and I think. you know I feel lucky I think my kids. are still young enough I hope that my. kids don't have too many memories of. their of their dad in that in that state. your belief about where that came from. although there's no evidence there's no. memory of anyone you know saying well. this happened and whatever else but. is your belief that you weren't born. with that and that something might have. happened and you've kind of inferred.

that in some way. yes I think that was a really really. important breakthrough that happened. on the 19th day of that second stint I. had in therapy in that inpatient therapy. session so that was a 21. Day program. that I assumed was only going to be 14. days and at the end of 14 days they they. needed me to they wanted me to stay. another week everybody wanted me to stay. another seven days and I was so. reluctant at this point I was exhausted.

I just didn't think I could do it again. but they were adamant that I stay. another week and I knew the first time I. had gone for two weeks and left I left. kind of against their recommendations. and I realized I never really got fully. better I got somewhat better but not. fully better so I decided. to just submit to them and say okay fine. I will stay as long as you tell me to. and it was on that 19th day that I had. perhaps the single most important.

Revelation for me again this is very. personal and. the point of this is not that everybody. else is going to relate to this it's. only that I hope everybody else is. willing to consider their own version of. this. but what I the the last thing I could. never let go of was. that. I was born as a perfect child right like. meaning we all are right not just me but. all of these kind of maladaptive.

behaviors were the result of things that. I didn't deserve. and. again it's not all. what we call Capital T dramas it's not. it's not necessarily the abuse I mean I. think in my case perhaps the most. impactful things of my childhood were. were more like neglect. and not not traumatic not like the kind. of neglect that's gonna that has you you. should be taken out of a house or.

anything like that I'm just talking. about not getting a certain type of. attention. that I probably should have had. and for whatever reason that. manifested itself in really odd. behaviors that as a kid I just said. those are just bad behaviors but that's. just who I was and I think what I. realized is. and what I finally came to accept is no. those are adaptations to something that. you didn't deserve.

and that might sound like a very subtle. distinction but it made all the. difference in the world and it made me. realize in part by it by looking at my. own kids that. you know there is a real innocence to. children that can very easily get. injured and and and when it does they're. going to make sure that they don't get. hurt again. and and the way they're going to do that. is as I said initially in their best. interest but ultimately it tends to. result in really negative consequences.

for the way they formulate relationships. with themselves with for the way they. form relationships with others for the. way they're going to parent for the way. they're going to be a husband or wife. um. and so that was that was a huge. breakthrough. so important and so powerful and I I. don't I don't think I've ever said this. but really thank you for sharing that. because. um I got a lot from it and I've had lots. of conversations about this but I've got. a lot from that specifically that point. about.

um didn't deserve for it to happen and. really it's a response that's trying to. make sure you don't experience that pain. again so it's really again it's your. body is is doing everything in its power. to help you and to protect you and some. of these behaviors end up being. maladaptive which then stand in the way. of your chance of emotional health. that is the third category of. deterioration which is the emotional. health deterioration. so let's go a little bit earlier in the. book and let's talk about the decline. and the loss of function of our physical. bodies as well. um medicine 3.0 as we talked about.

earlier you talk about these five core. things that help to increase our chances. of longevity as it relates to our health. spans what are those five things well. there's the one we just talked about. right so all the tools that deal with. how do you improve your emotional health. yeah again most of modern medicine only. thinks about you know if you think about. where does medicine 2.0 rank on that it. doesn't really except in the arena of. mental health right when it comes to. clinical depression anxiety personality.

disorders you know bipolar disorder. there we have a branch of medicine. called Psychiatry that deals with those. things but outside of that medicine. doesn't really deal with people like me. you know I none of my problems quote. unquote Rose to the level of you know a. clinical diagnosis that would require. medical therapy okay tool two exercise. again we can talk a lot about it if you. want a little about it but the point is. it is not remotely given anything beyond.

lip service by medicine 2.0 medicine you. know if you go to your doctor here at. the NHS and say okay tell me what my. workouts should be. like good luck right how much time. should I be spending in zone two versus. zone five like what type of lifting. should I mean there's no way they're. going to give you that type of insight. or specificity uh the third one is. nutrition again sure every doctor is. going to tell you eat less exercise more. but they're not really for the most part.

going to be able to help you manage. nutrition certainly I didn't learn. anything about nutrition or exercise. when I was going through my medical. training and most Physicians don't so. I'm not saying that there aren't doctors. out there who don't understand these. things what I'm going to say is they had. to learn that stuff on their own outside. of their traditional training so crazy. the fourth one is sleep and that fits in. the same category. sleep is an essential pillar of Health. but we learn nothing about it in our. medical training in fact most of our.

medical training is paradoxically sleep. deprived so it's sort of it's a great. irony the fifth and final thing that you. have as a tool in the longevity toolkit. is is all the molecules so drugs hormone. supplements and there that's the one. thing you sort of do learn in. traditional medicine is you you at least. learn about the the pharmacologic side. of it you don't really learn anything. about supplements so most doctors don't. really understand much about supplements. and interestingly most doctors don't. really understand a lot about hormones. as well.

so medicine 2.0 is is good at what it. does but it's very limited so it's kind. of like having a contractor that only. has one tool instead of five tools and. as we discussed earlier I think they're. applying those tools too late in the. game how can you prove let's start with. exercise then how can you prove to me. that exercise is important. yeah it's a great question so start with. the easiest way to do this is to look at. what the absence of exercise does versus.

looking at the absence or presence of. other known bad things. now for me to explain this I have to. explain a technical term called a hazard. ratio. so if you'll bear with me while I. explain what a hazard ratio is it will. reap lots of fruit later on. a hazard ratio is a mathematical. derivation that comes from looking at a. group of people following them.

prospectively following them into the. future and looking at the rate at which. they die. so a hazard ratio is a number. if that number is 1.5. it means that there's a 50 percent. increase in the risk of death for one. group versus the other so for example. if we want to know is smoking bad for. you. we might ask the question what is the. hazard ratio for smokers to non-smokers.

when it comes to getting lung cancer. okay and the answer is like 10. really. it's 10 times more about 10 times more. likely to get lung cancer if you're a. smoker than if you're a non-smoker. now if you look at the hazard ratio. across the course of life. for all causes of death it's about 1.5. meaning a smoker is about 50 percent. more likely to die in any given year.

than a non-smoker which will all cause. mortality all cause mortality is the. gold standard for understanding death. and disease because it takes into. account every form of death okay okay. what if you have type 2 diabetes. everybody understands that having type 2. diabetes is very problematic and people. with type 2 diabetes are at about twice. the risk more or less of cancer heart. disease maybe one and a half times the. risk of Alzheimer's disease but when it.

comes to all cause mortality every cause. of death it's about a 1.4 Hazard ratio. 40 out of 40 percent increase in all. cause mortality again that's a stark. number it means at any moment in time if. you take two people who are ever and. otherwise always identical but one has. Type 2 diabetes and one doesn't this. person has a 40 higher risk of dying in. the coming year in the coming year yeah. Jesus Christ yeah wow okay we can keep. doing this what if it's high blood. pressure versus normal blood pressure.

that's a hazard ratio of about 1.2. 20 percent same everything I just said. but it's twenty percent. okay what if it's someone. who has end-stage kidney disease their. kidneys don't work anymore they're on. dialysis hanging by a thread waiting for. a kidney transplant. it's about 2.7. that's a. 170 percent increase in all cause. mortality in the subsequent year.

okay. now let's talk about some other things. what if I ask the question what happens. if I take. a group of 50 year olds pick any age. pick any sex and we're going to take the. top. 15 to 20 percent in strength and compare. them to the bottom 15 to 20 in strength. for that age and sex what's the. difference what's the hazard ratio there. what would your guess be uh.

1.1 to 1.2 yeah yeah it's three two. hundred percent difference in all cause. mortality can you make a distinction. between strength and. muscle mass okay yep we can do it so. muscle mass just if we did it just on. muscle mass it's about two or a 100. difference so muscle mass turns out to. be an amazing proxy for strength but. strength is even better okay yep so high.

strength and high muscle mass produce a. hazard ratio of about 3.5 okay because. you can have a lot of muscles but not be. strong yeah kind of and you can be. strong and have not as much muscle okay. and that matters more by the way but but. they're pretty tightly correlated okay. yeah now let's look at VO2 max so VO2. max is the best tool we have to measure. Peak cardiorespiratory Fitness so this. is a test that you actually have to take. it's it's done on a treadmill or on a.

bike they put a mask on your face and. then the mask measures how much oxygen. you use. so in the book I talk in great detail. about this test it's something anybody. can do it costs probably 100 quid it's. not like super expensive. um and everybody should know their VO2. max I really think everybody should know. it and in the book I even offer some. ways that you can estimate it just by. running at a track or something like. that so sorry it's the the measure of. how much oxygen you're inhaling and. exhaling no yeah it's the difference.

between how much you inhale and exhale. is how much you're using so the way that. the way the test is working is there's a. little oxygen sensor so if you're. breathing in we know that the air you're. breathing in is 21 oxygen we know the. flow rate and we let's just say you're. you're blowing it out at 14 so we know. you used up seven percent times the flow. rate we figure out how many liters per. minute of oxygen you're using at the max. and what's good and what's bad. yeah so it depends on your age and sex. but at your age so for a 30 year old.

male we would say. oh I need the table is in the book. um really I could estimate it 60 50. 56 would put you in the top two and a. half percent and that means that I'm oh. sorry what's that number mean yeah. that's 56 milliliters of oxygen per. kilogram of body weight per minute okay. so. I think I'm 96 kilograms at the moment.

okay very heavy so you would need to be. 5.3 5.4 5.5 liters yeah no no yeah you. need to be about 5.5 liters per minute. you would need to consume 5.5 liters of. oxygen per minute to come out to about a. VO2 max of 56 or 57 milliliters of. oxygen per kilogram per minute that. would put you at the top two and a half. percent for your age and sex so I'm.

going to figure out is taking more. oxygen from the air that I breathe a. sign of good health yes it means it's it. speaks to how hard how fast and hard. your heart can pump yeah and how good. your muscles are at utilizing oxygen ah. okay it is the most important metric we. have for Peak cardiorespiratory Fitness. and sorry for getting a bit too big. because I really want to understand this. and I'm sure there's a lot of people. trying to understand this as well so.

what are the things that stand in the. way of good VO2 max. in terms of my and also the the lungs. yeah it turns out that not much of it is. limited by the lungs so the question is. where are you limited okay okay so how. does this test work. do you prefer to run or bike I prefer to. bike okay so we're going to put you on a. bike we're gonna put this mask on your. face that allows no other air in or out. it's only going to be metered by what's. coming from the machine the bike is. going to be. um one that has forced resistance to it.

it's called an ergometer so we're going. to set it to 100 Watts nice and easy I'm. going to tell you to warm up for a while. and then after a 10 minute warm-up it's. going to start increasing the power. that's that you are forced to Pedal. against okay and every two minutes we're. going to add some amount 25 or 50 Watts. and and you're going to say you have to. stay above about 70 rpm. and this test is going to go until you. can't do it anymore.

it's going to go till you basically drop. so what's limiting you is clearly not. the amount of oxygen in the air. and it's actually not the ability of. your lungs to get oxygen into your blood. you're limited by the how hard and fast. your heart can pump that blood through. your body and how efficient your muscles. are at taking the oxygen out and using. it. and the difference between. so again a 30 year old who's in the top.

two and a half percent of their age. group might be at 56 57 but to put that. in context the guy who wins the Tour de. France this year is 85. wow. and by the way when that number reaches. 20. or certainly 18 19 you have a hard time. just getting around like you wouldn't be. able to walk up a flight of stairs. that gives you a sense of the of the.

gradient now let's get to my point that. answers your question. you asked how can I say exercise is so. powerful well. what do you think is the hazard ratio. when I compare someone at the top two. and a half percent to someone at the. bottom 25 in terms of VO2 max yes. two percent versus the top bottom 25. bottom 25 that's quite big two percent. is quite narrow um I'd say.

1.1.5 which is what so you think it's. less important than strength because. we've just established for strength it's. about three so I'm just I'm increasing. it now because I was so wrong on. strength yeah you see what I mean uh. well. what would I have said had you not told. me the strength one so. um by the way I think your guess is a. completely reasonable guess because the. answer is so absurd I'm gonna say 1.5. Hazard Hazard ratio it's five five which.

means 400 percent difference in all. cause mortality. if you compare the fittest two and a. half percent to the least fit 25 percent. wow so it makes a huge difference. so this is why I can say with absolute. certainty nothing compares to exercise. nothing compares to having a high VO2.

max High muscle mass and high muscle. strength. they are more beneficial for you than. any bad thing you can think of is bad. for you. why why the is the muscle mass piece so. important and the strength piece why is. that causing me to stay alive I think. there are several reasons as you get so. there's there's I put them in two. buckets structural and metabolic.

let's start with the latter. muscles are where you dispose of glucose. so glucose regulation is one of the most. important metabolic functions of the. body. our ability to metabolize glucose and. regulate glucose levels is Central to. our existence on this planet and when we. get it just a little bit wrong we go to. hell in a hand basket that's what type 2. diabetes is type 2 diabetes raging type. 2 diabetes.

only means you have an extra. five grams of blood sugar one teaspoon. in your circulation that's it. the difference between you and someone. with type 2 diabetes so bad that they're. going to get their digits amputated. is an extra one teaspoon of glucose in. the bloodstream. that's how critical it is that we. regulate our blood sugar. and the most important part of blood. sugar regulation is having muscles that.

are big enough to put the glucose into. and that are insulin sensitive enough to. respond to the signal of insulin. and glucose is stored in just a couple. of places in our body it's only stored. in the liver and in the muscles but the. muscles store 80 of it okay so okay so. muscles are really really good for. glucose regulation because it gives. the sugar more place to hide that's. right so the other reason muscle mass. and strength is so important is as we. age.

fragility and Frailty become an enormous. liability in death. there's a figure in that book that shows. the mortality associated with falling. and it becomes. catastrophic once you hit the age of 65. once you hit the age of 65 if you fall. which is pretty likely. and you break your hip or your femur the. long bone in your leg.

there's a 15 to 30 percent chance you. will be dead within the next 12 months. really yes it's insane. because you become set a dream yeah. there's a lot of reasons for it but. certainly a loss of function is a big. one you can also just die as a result of. hitting your head you can die from a fat. embolism or a blood clot you can die. from sepsis you can die from you know. heart attack because you you know. there's there's so many things that can. kind of kill you in response to it but.

even the people you know the 70 to 85. percent of people who don't die 50 of. them will experience a significant loss. of function that never recovers after. so this this issue of sarcopenia which. is loss of muscle mass and Frailty and. fragility become the you know the. absolute keeper of death for people once. they reach the seventh decade of life. again. if you're 30 years old it's impossible.

to Fathom this stuff because you're. indestructible yeah yeah even at my age. I mean I feel indestructible and I'm 50. but this changes and we have to do all. we can to Ward it off so that's why. muscle mass matters so much. there's this kind of long-standing. belief that you as you age there's so. many just it's just kind of inevitable. you put on fat you know you slow down. and you're saying and I think you. communicated very clearly in the book.

that it doesn't have to be inevitable. all of this stuff to some degree well I. mean look I I'm I'm very I'm very. careful to to try to be as realistic as. possible I I get a little put off when I. see people in this sort of quote-unquote. longevity space saying things that I. think are just science fiction right. like oh you're at 90 you can be just as. fit as you are at 40 and stuff and I I. see Zero evidence that that's happening. I don't see any biotechnology on the. horizon that is going to completely and.

reversibly change aging. um yet. I don't think In Our Lifetime no and. this is something I spend. you know. an absurd amount of time on both as an. investor uh and and just as a you know a. person who thinks about this from my own. podcast and the types of guests that I. bring on and the type of science that. I'm paying attention to but but no I. really do not see anything in our. lifetime that is going to undo aging I.

think we have some ideas of. places we can look right I think that. for example. if you could. completely restore the epigenome to what. it looks like in a young State across. the entire genome I think that could. have a profound effect. on function. but do we have do I see ways that we. could do that I. it you know it's a longer discussion but.

I think the complexity there is many. many decades away that said. um what I think we do not need to do is. accept the complete and total. inevitability of Rapid decline so the. decline is non-linear. this is the important thing to. understand so what was your decline from. 20 to 30. wasn't that bad no no and from 30 to 40. it's not going to be that bad from 40 to.

50 it's going to be more from 50 to 60. it's going to be even more from 60 to 70. it's going to be way more and 70 to 80. is falling off a cliff. so if you if you look at this is. actually one of the figures I wanted to. include in the book but you know you're. always sort of scrapped for space so we. took it out but I have a figure that. shows both muscle mass and spontaneous. physical activity in people by decade. and it's just based on like a huge data. sample of people and it's really. interesting to watch the correlation how.

strong it is right so physical activity. and muscle mass go like this and they. just fall off a cliff and the cliff for. both is 75 for both men and women like. that's where you see an enormous. reduction in muscle mass and activity. level. because of Behavioral well I think it's. a you know it's the age-old question is. are they losing muscle mass because. they're becoming less active or are they. becoming less active because they're. losing muscle muscle mass and I think. it's both okay I think these two feed. off each other.

and um and they get haunted right. presumably because what you said about. the quality of the muscle as well that's. right so you have to Ward this stuff off. right I mean as your type 2 muscle. fibers are deteriorating and you're. putting more fat into muscle the quality. of that muscle you go from being you. know primed to wagyu so you have to Ward. that stuff off. right and the way to Ward that off is to. lift very heavy things that's the only. way to stimulate the type 2 muscle fiber. this type 2 muscle fiber won't get. stimulated by light movements so it's.

not just that resistance training is. necessary but it's it's resistance. training that's actually quite heavy. people who hear that they go okay they. get it they're on board they're going to. exercise how much do I need to do. because listen. can it be is it I've got to change my. whole life in exercise seven days a week. and run marathons now Dr Peter or is. this what would you recommend I always. start this question by saying. how much can you do. but okay I'm gonna I'm gonna play.

devil's advocate here I'm gonna respond. as one of my viewers right I'm gonna say. listen I'm so busy you don't understand. Dr Peter I'm I've got kids I've got this. I've got a job I'm already I already. have no time I'm not sleeping out here. so I don't have any time. I mean I I it requires a thorough. discussion around that I mean is that. really true no of course it's not yeah. so then you have to get into the weeds. like how much time are you watching TV. how much time are you on social media. how much time are you doing things that. might not be.

um as high a priority as doing this. other thing. um so so once you kind of get through. that I do I do sort of put put it on. them and say I would much rather you. tell me the number than I tell you the. number. I can tell you what I think the number. is right like if you're playing the. optimizing game and if you're saying. I want to be the absolute best fittest. version. of me that is humanly possible when I'm. in my 80s how much do I need to be.

training for that the answer is probably. one and a half to two hours a day. one and a half to two hours a day seven. days a week yeah. I mean of course it's not going to be. the same every day and and it looks. different but but it's going to average. out to 10 to 14 hours a week. but but rather than tell somebody that. because I think that's very off-putting. yeah I would just say just tell me what. you got. if you tell me you've got five hours a. week that you can do this I'll give you.

a great set of things you can do in five. hours and My Hope by the way is. six months from now you're gonna feel so. much better that you're gonna say you. know what I would like to up this to. seven hours a week. what's the difference in all cause. mortality if I go from doing zero. exercise to doing just a bit yeah that. that's a great question. and for some people that question is all. they need to get started. going from zero activity to just 90. minutes a week is about a 15 reduction.

in all cause mortality so I'm 50 less. likely to to die in any given Year from. all causes if you go from being. completely sedentary to just doing 90. minutes a week. which is only like what I know 15. minutes a day 12 minutes a day yeah or. just you know three times 30 minutes a. week. that's a huge that's a huge shifting of. very important odds yeah. and and truthfully like I. probably spend more time convincing.

people not on the all-cause mortality. data. but on the health spandex because people. don't we didn't think about it yeah. death is so abstract it really I don't. think it I don't think it even sets in. until you're in your 50s like I think. it's very. it's very hard to capture the finitude. of what it means to be a human when. you're young I think it's true at all. ages but but I really think.

it's so much better to just focus on the. quality of life you want to live. what do you want to physically be able. to do throughout your life. and it's easier in people who have been. around aging people. yeah you know which again. a lot of people in their 30s their. parents aren't even necessarily old. enough that they can fully appreciate it. they might have to think well do I still. remember what my grandparents were like. at the end of their life and. was I inspired by them and if so that's.

what I want to do great and if I don't. want what they had which is the answer I. think most people will have then what do. I need to do to be different what was it. for you I remember what it was for me. yeah for me it's again it's I didn't. know my grandparents uh. I suspect just my training in medicine. like I was around. so many people at the end of life that. like to see yeah it was it was just.

imprinted early my arm I told this story. once or twice in this podcast before but. I was in Bali walking down some a long. set of stairs when I say alongside of. stairs I mean down the side of a cliff. going down to canoe with my partner and. I was walking down those stairs in the. sunshine it dawned on me that my father. probably couldn't walk down these steps. and my dad is maybe a 60 65 and I. thought he wouldn't be able to come down. these stairs which means he wouldn't be. able to go canoeing with his family and. we share a lot of genetic uh information.

me and my father of course so that was. one of those real big moments and. actually Jack who films the podcast he. he after I shared that with him he and. we had some guests on the podcast. um he shared with me his own moment. where he was climbing a mountain I think. last month weren't you Jack. and he he got to the top of the mountain. and thought to himself God like it was. such an unbelievable experience for him. uh he correct me if I'm wrong it was an. epiphany moment you go I wouldn't be. able to climb this bloody mountain with. all these people and feel this sense of. accomplishment if I and it's those. moments for me where I thought this.

is that's my health span I want to be. able to do this yes. you wrote one of the chapters in your. book is about stability um. found that really. um surprising again I'd never even come. across the concept of stability or why. it's important that's why it needed an. entire chapter because it is a very. foreign concept chapter 13 stability why. why is it important and what does it. mean yeah I think this is this is the. stability is a difficult thing to. explain I mean you can sort of talk. about it technically right stability is. the capacity to transmit force from the.

body to the outside world and from the. outside world back to the body without. injury so anytime you're taking a step. you're applying Force to the ground. that's. what's allowing you to walk forward so. you apply Force to the ground the ground. applies an equal opposite Force to you. that's Newton's law and you move forward. um when you're running why are you going. faster. you're going faster primarily because. you're applying more Force to the ground. and therefore the ground is applying. more Force to you and that's propelling.

you forward. the difference between me and Usain Bolt. among other things is his capacity to. apply Force to the ground is. two and a half times my ability to apply. Force to the ground. so in all that Force. how do you make sure that the action of. the force mechanism is all for the. desired purpose in this case propulsion. and not for undesirable purposes like.

leaking of energy which is what it feels. like when your knee hurts when you're. walking down the stairs or your hip or. something like that. so the analogy I use in the book to. describe this is that of a car because I. love cars and I talk about the. difference between a race car and a. street car. a race car can be even half the power of. A Streetcar in terms of horsepower. but because it's smaller lighter and has. a stiffer chassis and slick tires.

much more of its power is being. delivered directly to the road without. slippage or energy loss and therefore. it's going faster. and so this idea is a very important. part of aging so most people who have. some sort of chronic injury it can. really be traced back to an instability. whether it be an instability of their. scapula and that's why they really have. tennis elbow or an instability in the. you know in in their abdomen in their.

lower back and that's why they have back. pain instability in the feet that. translates its way up into knee pain all. of these things matter greatly and a big. part of how we train is making sure that. we do exercises that bolster our. stability. again this feels very um relevant to me. because I'm. currently got a Grade Three tear in my. hamstring got a growing problem so I'm. on physio for the grade three tear how. did you tear it.

um playing football but I have a couple. of suspicions surrounding it because. about a month before I got the. foot pain that they call plantar. fasciitis plantar fasciitis so I went to. the I think it's called a podiatrist and. I got my foot x-ray things done where. they give you the insoles and then. following that I got loads of injuries. um I think my hypothesis is that I took. these insoles put them straight in and. then proceeded to do two hours of. football basically running a day and I. think something in me just broke because. I suddenly got all these injuries and.

then I was meant to be playing Old. Trafford Manchester United's football. ground in front of 70 000 people and the. day before in training I got I pulled my. hamstring. um and I and I and I think that. everyone's been speaking to me about my. injury and saying well you know maybe it. was something in your lower back and. maybe this and maybe your feet weren't. whatever. um kind of rings true to what you're. saying about stability I clearly have. something which is not wasn't wasn't. prepared for me to suddenly start. training for two hours a day. um. and everything started breaking.

well and look I mean it's it's. hamstring injuries are very stubborn. injuries. um and a lot of people are really. imbalanced right much stronger quads. than hamstrings. um my personal take is and I'm sure I'm. going to really upset some podiatrists. here I think that. um that insoles foot inserts uh arches. arch support. probably should be reserved only for.

some people and most people actually. need to learn to strengthen the. intrinsic muscles of the foot and that. that's the issue that's underpinning the. plantar fasciitis and once you have a. Str Because by the way your foot is not. that much different from your hand in. terms of the amount of musculature in it. and yet if you think about the dexterity. that you have with your hands and the. strength that you have in your hands I. think you'd be surprised at how weak. your feet are and I don't just mean you. I'm not singling you out I think this is. true for most of us because shoes really.

Shield us so much from what our feet. should be doing. so. um yeah I think I think your hypothesis. is actually probably spot on and I think. what you really need to do is strengthen. your feet so that your arches. can can self-support. um and that you can sort of regain the. springiness that is that is within your. feet I spoke to Dr Daniel Lieberman. about this yeah yeah he said the same. thing yeah he said your feet were too. weak and it makes perfect sense to me.

because I do not think about I always. think in terms of my ancestors and I. think my ancestors didn't walk in these. cushioned blunts Yaga shoes they were. out Barefoot yeah building up the. strength and so when I went from my. cushioned balenciagas to suddenly. training two hours a day on feet that. just didn't have the muscles of course I. I pulled loads of I had all these issues. and so I actually changed my Footwear. and I don't have the insoles anymore and. I'm now using those Vivo Barefoot yep do. you recommend those do you think I do I. really I mean again I think there's lots. of companies that make them I wear a.

brand called zero like x-e-r-o. um and and but the Vivo barefoot's a. great brand and I yeah I think that a. minimalist shoe is a great way to go I I. have the luxury of basically working. from home so I'm pretty much Barefoot 24. 7. I I work out Barefoot and my own gym. like I I'm I'm in my and then when I do. my activities like my rucking and stuff. like that when I'm Outdoors like I'm you. know I'm in a wide toed shoe that is uh.

you know at most would have maybe an. eight millimeter uh. um increase in heel but yes minimalist. shoe now one thing to keep in mind is if. you're transitioning from Big shoe to. minimalist shoe don't do it all at once. so. um you can also injure yourself in the. right shoes if it's too much too soon. they did say that to me when I bought. them yeah they said just like sort of. ease yourself in because you need to. build up the muscles in your feet super. interesting no one's ever spoken to me. about this before but. um I just find it saying I'm like why.

did anybody tell me this I mean we do a. lot of things if you think about it like. think of all the things we do to kids at. such a young age that set them down the. wrong path right like we put them in big. shoes when they're little we put them in. desks to sit down in class and we take. away a lot of physical activity Comfort. we prescribe Comfort to everything yeah. convenience have you read the Comfort. crisis by Michael Easter no oh man such. a such a fantastic book. and it talks about this oh yeah I mean.

it's really the whole thesis of the book. right is that we have engineered. discomfort completely out of our lives. and uh it's a you know it's an enormous. problem. both for our physical and mental health. the answers are actually quite simple. when you reflect upon it you go you know. how are we born to live we're so far. away from how we were born to live and. if I just followed more of. um the instruction manual of my. ancestors maybe I wouldn't have all of. these kind of. you know modern issues with that comfort. in many many respects has caused me.

but it's tough because you have to sort. of think about what is the. there are a lot of gifts that come from. the modern world right and like I don't. think you would want to go back in time. 100 years and be alive I probably. wouldn't live very long would I either. yeah I mean and let's let's even make it. less than that like let's say even 70. years like you know once we're through. the sort of infectious pandemic stuff. right like what you know would we really. want to go back and be alive 70 years.

ago just before World War II I mean I I. wouldn't like I yeah they had. electricity and stuff but I I like the. modern world but there's a huge set of. responsibilities that comes with the. modernity of our world today. food is so abundant today I mean these. people did not struggle with obesity. because they weren't surrounded by. really tasty hyper hyper palatable. calorie dense food in total excess we. are. that means we have to exercise some.

moderation. most of them had far more physical jobs. than you and I do. I mean. you and I don't have to lift a finger to. make a living. whereas 75 years ago we probably did. and it's great that we don't have to I. think you could argue look you're having. a far bigger impact on the world than. you would have ever had 75 years ago but. that comes with a responsibility to. yourself is this one I was seeing this. sort of resurgence of discomfort as a. hobby and a sport in an industry I think.

so yeah I I think so and and again. Michael writes about this so. um so well you know they write about he. writes about things called musogi's. which are these very very difficult. challenging things that you might have. yourself do once a year. um he also writes a lot about something. that is just an enormous hobby of mine. called rucking have you are you familiar. with rucking so rucking is something. that I I think it was probably started. by the military and it's really how the. military does the great majority of its.

conditioning and it's walking with a. weighted backpack. um and I mean the military will do this. they might go on a 24-hour Ruck where. you're carrying half your body weight. so picture you carrying in your case. right like close to a hundred pounds on. your back for a day. and. um so there's actually an awesome. company in the U.S called go rock that. makes really good rucksacks that are.

just ergonomically designed to put. weight plates into and then they sell. these plates and stuff so I mean this. has become a total Obsession of mine so. I rock three or four times every week. and luckily where I live in Austin Texas. it's incredibly hilly so it's just up. and down up and down very steep hills. and I'll go anywhere from you know 50 60. pounds on some days I'll really push it. and go up to a hundred uh for shorter. rucks and you know I'm only doing it for.

like an hour at a time but we it's very. hot where I live in the summer so it's. just it adds an extra layer of. discomfort but it's great. yeah because I don't know whether it was. just what the circle I'm exposed to in. the information I'm exposed to but it. just seems like all of these Ultra. athletic you know painful long distance. um Sports have become super popular the. Spartans of the you know I actually just. recently invested in one. um because of this very reason because. I'm seeing this Comfort crisis and I. always think that when there's one one.

pole Rises the other one Also Rises so. when digital music record you know old. school vinyl records became big and I. think in a world of comfort people are. going to seek out extreme discomfort and. it sounds like you're doing that with. your rucking yeah if you've been. listening to this podcast over the last. few months you'll know that we're. sponsored and supported by Airbnb but it. amazes me how many people don't realize. they could actually be sitting on their. very own Airbnb for me as someone who. works away a lot it just makes sense to. Airbnb my place at home whilst I'm away.

if your job requires you to be away from. home for extended periods of time why. leave your home empty you can so easily. turn your home into an Airbnb and let it. generate income for you whilst you're on. the road whether you could use a little. extra money to cover some bills or for. something a little bit more fun your. home might just be worth more than you. think and you can find out how much it's. worth at Airbnb dot code UK slash host. that's airbnb.co.uk slash host sugar is. it an interesting topic because it's. really been demonized I think and may.

maybe rightfully so but. um I wanted to talk to you about sugar. because it's actually been really front. of mind for me lately and when I say A. little I mean literally in the last 48. hours I'm I went away to a a wedding. um and I remember they didn't have a lot. of drinks so I was opting for the. sugar-free drinks the things that say no. added sugar in them like you know I. won't name the brands but the ones that. have zero and diet on them. first question is. is sugar the devil as people have become.

to tell me and also if I'm drinking. these zero drinks with the diet and the. zero on it am I in the clear. this is a very complicated topic and I. think it's one that's also very. contentious. and it's also one in which I've probably. my thinking has probably also evolved as. as as the science I think has kind of. evolved so. let's start with what I don't think. anybody disputes I don't think there's.

any anybody out there thinking that high. sugar foods are somehow nutritious right. that's not the question at hand. the question is. calorie for calorie. is sugar somehow different from let's. just limit it to other sources of. carbohydrates. so. what is sugar so I'm assuming when. you're talking about sugar you're. talking about sucrose or high fructose. corn syrup those would be the two. dominant forms of sugar but just to.

demystify it sucrose which is the white. powder you would put in your coffee or. tea that's just one molecule of glucose. and one molecule of fructose stuck. together that's table sugar. and if you contrast that with pure. glucose so like eating rice is basically. pure glucose it's going to be broken. down into pure glucose how different are. they well obviously the thing that. differentiates them is the fructose. that's the thing that's different now. it's true that fructose has a very. different Pathway to be metabolized.

the body breaks down fructose in a very. different way from the way it breaks. down glucose and by breaks down I mean. it gets energy from it the whole purpose. of eating is to make this thing called. ATP ATP is the currency of life it's the. currency by which energy is transmitted. throughout the body. and the way we make ATP out of glucose. is. I think I can probably say this smarter. than the way we make it out of fructose.

the way we make it out of fructose has a. problem a slight problem now it doesn't. really matter if you're not consuming a. lot of fructose. but if you're consuming fructose in a. liquid form it has a real problem I.E if. you are drinking sugar. there's a real problem. and the problem is this when you make. ATP out of fructose you temporarily. deplete the cell of energy to the point.

where more energy is needed. this is just a consequence of the speed. at which we metabolize fructose. we do it quickly all the time in this. way but if you're eating an apple for. example it's not really an issue because. yes the Apple has fructose in it. but you know it's not that it's not that. much and you're eating it so it's it's a. piece of solid food with fiber and water.

that's taking a long time to exit your. stomach but if you drink a big glass of. apple juice. well I mean first of all that's much. more fructose and it's liquid and it's. just going straight out of your stomach. and your liver is going to encounter it. much sooner as is your gut. and therefore you're much more likely to. want to eat more. after in other words it creates more of. a hunger response. so the real issue with sugar is calorie.

for calorie is it more damaging than. just glucose. I actually think the answer to that. question is probably not. really yeah but. in the real world. is that possible. in other words if I put you in a. metabolic ward in a hospital where you. had no control over what you ate other. than me putting it in front of you and I. gave you two different diets and one was. higher in fructose than the other I'm.

not convinced it would make that much of. a difference. it's possible it would if we went to. extremes you know maybe at a high enough. fructose level we might actually induce. more fat production in the liver we. might actually create some fatty liver. disease maybe even drive insulin. resistance. um but I might have to go pretty high on. that but. the real problem is if I just let you. have as much fructose and sugar as you. wanted you'd probably end up overeating.

in response to this energy depletion. thing. so. I don't sort of describe myself as like. a hardcore sugar avoider I mean. like we're here in London and I mean I'm. gonna have dessert probably most nights. right I'm on vacation. um. but I also acknowledge it that it's you. know like not something that I want to. be eating on a regular basis you know.

just added sugar all the time. um. I don't drink sugar sweetened beverages. that's definitely a place where I draw a. line so I think there's something about. liquid sugar that is more problematic. than solid sugar. um so I'd rather eat my sugar. and at least have the benefit of it. being more slowly absorbed than drink it. um what's always diet drinks though yeah. so I look I don't drink them personally.

very often. um and in part that's I think due to. a little bit of uncertainty I think we. still have about their impact on our. metabolism through our gut. I think there's. I think there were emerging. data that suggests that. at least certain non-nutritive. sweeteners like things like. um well in the U.S it's like NutraSweet.

I think. it's Aspartame is the underlying agent. or saccharine or sucralose I think. there's some. some suggestion that the effect that. they have on the bacteria on your gut. might be detrimental to your health I. think it's too soon to really say that. but my view is. don't take the risk well I don't need to. I suppose like I'm I'm I love soda water.

like I love carbonated water so I'm just. happy to drink that but I'm sure once a. month I'm gonna have a Diet Coke or. something but it's not a regular thing. but I but I will say this when I see. people who are struggling for example. with weight loss. and they're drinking four Diet Cokes a. day. one of the first things I'll do is have. them stop completely and replace that. with just water or sparkling water why. uh I'm not sure I I just empirically. have seen even though they're not. getting any calories that a either it's.

impacting their eating behavior when. they're not drinking the coke uh or. maybe it's having some negative impact. on their gut that is that is impacting. the way they're metabolizing their food. this is this is rather unscientific at. this point but it's just empirically is. something I've observed everyone cares. about weight loss. it's such a big topic everyone wants to. lose weight I mean as you clearly. um. specify people want to lose fat they. don't want to lose weight people want. lose fat which is something I heard you. say. um what are the the biggest.

misconceptions in your mind about weight. loss because but I guess the narrative. is to lose weight you kind of you just. need to eat less that's kind of the. is that true and what are the big. misconceptions that you hear that we. need to overcome yeah I think that is. largely true I think that. um eating less. uh is the the more important step. towards weight loss. um and that the role of exercise is. important but less because of just the.

straight number of calories you burn in. other words the increase in energy that. you expend through exercise is usually. offset by increased appetite you use the. word calories there yeah contentious. words sometimes. it shouldn't be people people come and. come on this podcast and told me that. calories are like the concept of it's. kind of like a lie in the sense that. they're not all even some cat you know a. stick of celery has this many calories. and then when you boil it has this many. calories and it's. well yeah I think people tend to.

get a little off in the Weeds on stuff. that that might not matter that much. um. yeah it's certainly true that not all. calories. um are absorbable the same way and an. example of celery is a pretty extreme. example because so much of celery is. um an insoluble fiber right so most of. the mass of celery is water and. insoluble fiber there are virtually no. calories in celery. um but at the end of the day it's not.

rocket science to figure out how many. calories you're ingesting in a certain. amount of food and the truth of it is if. a person wants to lose weight as you. said what they really want to do is lose. fat Mass there's I've never met anybody. out there who says I want to have less. muscle so we want to have less fat and. therefore we have to create an energy. deficit. um. now there are other elements to this. that matter so we don't we just want to. leave on the side that if you're sleep.

deprived you're going to be very insulin. resistant. it's that's a much easier path to being. overweight. not sleeping not sleeping right so you. you can't correct a weight problem. without correcting a sleep problem what. about a stress problem yep that's even. harder to correct because it's harder to. measure. but yes hypercortisolemia high stress. makes it very difficult to lose weight. my partner said this to me this weekend. she was trying to figure out how in one. stage of her life when she was in her.

words eating very very healthy food she. says I still wasn't losing weight and. she she hypothesized in the car as we. were driving that she thought it might. be to do with her stress levels at that. time in her life and I remember thinking. oh that's an interesting hypothesis. yeah so high stress poor sleep. inactivity all of those things will make. it very difficult to lose weight even in. the presence of whatever perfect diet. you're on so those things have to be. addressed right you have to be sleeping. well you have to be active because.

activity increases insulin sensitivity. and we want those muscles to be. sensitive to insulin so that they. quickly get glucose out of circulation. and also exercise increases the. sensitivity of your brain to what are. called satiety hormones the hormones. that tell you when to stop eating. so and and the difference between an. exercising person and a non-exercising. person uh is that that non-exercising. person has a blunted response to those.

hormones so sometimes they're eating. when they don't need to be eating. they're not getting the message that. says we have enough nutrition on board. now anybody can blow through that signal. but I would like to know that that. signal is there. so when all of that is said the question. then becomes how do you create an energy. deficit. and basically. there are three ways to do it. there are three strategies to create an. energy deficit.

I'd describe them as CR Dr TR so that. stands for calorie restriction. dietary restriction and time restriction. so let's explain them okay so calorie. restriction is what it sounds like just. eat less that's the most direct way to. go about doing this. so you know I gotta eat 500 fewer. calories a day and I'm gonna have to. track what I'm eating and count my.

macros and make that happen Okay that. has the advantage of being the most. direct way to do this but it has a. disadvantage frankly of. being harder to do in some ways you have. to pay the most attention to it it also. has the advantage by the way of being. pretty flexible and agnostic to what you. eat so. you know there are certain foods you. like. there's no food that's off the table. when you're doing calorie restriction it. provided you're eating less overall got.

a friend that said this to me he said it. doesn't matter what you eat just. restrict the calories remember thinking. that was strange advice because he was. like you can have Domino's Pizza every. day you just if you'll lose weight if. you have less calories that's right now. the problem is he's absolutely right but. the problem is. it can be very difficult. to not suffer through calorie. restriction if you're just eating crap. because the body still at the end of the. day keeps score with respect to. nutrition.

and the body still wants protein the. body still wants nutrients the body. still wants vitamins minerals so if you. say look I'm going to eat 2 000 calories. a day a Cadbury's. you might lose weight but you'll. probably be in purgatory along the way. and you certainly won't be healthy so we. also want to make sure we're not. confusing health and weight here. now we come to dietary restriction. dietary restriction is what most people. think of when they think of a diet this. means. as I described in the book you know pick.

your favorite Boogeyman. or two and just cut them out of the diet. so basically everybody that's arguing. about their perfect diet is arguing. about dietary restriction so you want to. take out carbs you want to take out. animal products you want to take out. everything but meat you know it's a. carnivore diet you want to go South. Beach paleo Mediterranean those are all. just forms of dietary restriction. and. generally speaking the more restrictive. you are in the diet the less you will. eat.

so I mean it's I don't think it's an. accident that people who go on a. carnivore diet typically lose a ton of. weight same is true of a ketogenic diet. I did it yeah my scales it was like this. this was the it was a it was a. horizontal line my weight maybe a little. bit up and then I did keto for eight. weeks and it was a vertical line down. every time I hit those scales and the. Bluetooth thing sent to my weight to my. phone this vertical line down I lost a. stone in the space of those eight weeks. roughly my girlfriend was like stone is. 16 pounds something like that yeah eight.

kilos 14 step what do they go from 14. Stone 5 to 14 Stone 8 to 13 stone eight. yeah which I think yeah. and were you hungry. um I couldn't sustain it easily I'd say. that because if we went to restaurants. and stuff I was always trying to get. like taking corn out of it like taking. the wrap off a burrito and stuff and. um whatever else um was I hungry after I. got past the first week I wouldn't say I. was hungry no but I also didn't find it.

sustainable because of honestly because. of the nature of the modern world where. it's so hard to find those things when. you're living a very fast-paced life. hungry for some kind of nutrient maybe I. think there was some kind of. psychological calling to go back to work. to my previous diet and then I went to. New York and that's when it fell down. and then did you regain the weight or. what happened oh yes. oh yes just as fast as I lost it I went. from this keto diet to the New York diet. and it was so extreme how quickly I put. that weight back on again.

um just being honest yeah well it's. interesting right so I again it's a very. extreme diet and I think you know people. are gonna definitely lose lose weight on. it and and look for some people it's. easy to sustain for others it's not. um but nevertheless that's dietary. restriction and again I think the. advantage of dietary restriction is. you're not being restricted in the. amount you eat you're just being. restricted in what you eat and. um The Challenge then really comes down.

to the craving of certain types of foods. so obviously on a ketogenic diet you're. going to really crave carbohydrates. um yeah so the final strategy is time. restriction and people call this. intermittent fasting as well but it's. basically saying all right how about I. create a smaller window in which I eat. so. I'm just going to allow myself to eat. you know from noon to 8 PM or 2 P.M to 8. PM or 2 P.M to 6 p.m and the narrower. and narrower you make that window the.

more likely it is that you will induce a. significant caloric deficit and. therefore you will lose weight what do. you think of fasting G fast not anymore. uh at least not deliberately uh I mean I. sometimes end up fasting just by the. nature of whatever I'm doing but um. again fasting has a lot of advantages. it's conceptually the easiest by far I. think it is just the easiest to execute. on and because for most people it's just. easy to not eat for a period of time and. then have no restriction when they are. eating.

um I think the biggest challenge of. fasting comes down to protein intake and. protein is in my view obviously I write. about this in the book The most. important macronutrient the one we need. to be paying the most attention to and. when you are intermittently fasting. it is very difficult to get the right. amount of protein in and in the right. Doses and therefore it's the most. difficult to maintain muscle mass and we. always have to remember that. you know if we're losing weight we still.

want to be able to maintain muscle mass. we want to just lose fat mass and not. lose both I'm fasting as we speak. um I haven't eaten today yet and it's I. think it's just after six the reason for. that is because before this podcast I. realized that if I eat before I have a. conversation my brain doesn't work. it feels like and I'm having spoken to. some experts the energy rushes to my gut. so I can't I can't speak as well and I. can't think as well so I ordered the. food just before you got here and then I.

said to my sister I can't eat it and. within an hour of you so I'll eat it. after but. yeah and the health benefits are one. thing but the cognitive impact as well. has been quite quite big for me. um. so you don't fast. no no I used to fast a lot I mean I used. to do days and days at a time alcohol. another thing I wanted to talk to you. about I'm thinking of quitting. what is the um what is the advice from a. doctor like yourself about alcohol and. do you drink I do.

it's a very interesting topic so I and. it's so long that I I don't want to I. don't want to spend another hour on this. because I'm sure that's not the answer. anyone is looking for. I will say this. um alcohol ethanol which is the alcohol. we drink is toxic. um its toxicity is non-linear so its. toxicity kind of goes like this meaning. at low levels it's just a little bit of. an increase but the more you drink the. more it becomes toxic so.

um you know for most people there's not. an appreciable amount of toxicity at one. drink a day but you know two three. drinks a day starts to become quite. toxic. but there is no dose of ethanol that is. helpful. so the question becomes why is there so. much epidemiology out there suggesting. the benefits of modest alcohol intake so. there's this thing in the alcohol. research field called the J curve the J. curves a picture A J curve for all cause.

mortality it means that at total. abstinence mortality is here but as you. drink a little bit the mortality goes. down before it really Rises sharply as. you increase the drinking that's what. the epidemiology shows and it goes down. well again epidemiology is fraught with. many limitations especially epidemiology. of nutrition okay it's much worse than. the epidemiology of say exercise or. infectious diseases. and.

proponents of alcohol argue that and. they might be right to some extent that. there are some pro-social benefits of. alcohol alcohol at least in the form of. red wine is also potentially something. that comes with some antioxidants and. things of that nature. my view is that that literature is. highly flawed and that that literature. is confounded by a negative survivorship. bias and it's confounded by the fact. that net that non-drinkers often have a.

health reason for being a non-drinker. and in other words there are people who. are completely not drinking because of a. health reason that's forcing them to be. not drinking and people who drink and. die as a result of it dilute the pool of. data that we have of the toxic effects. of alcohol As Time Marches forward so. it's a long-winded way of saying I think. anybody who's thinking about not.

drinking should absolutely engage in. that there's no health benefit to be. drinking. um you asked me if I drink the answer is. I do. um but I don't drink if it sucks like in. other words. there has to be a good reason for me to. drink so my my sort of Mantra is don't. drink on airplanes like they always just. have crap alcohol what's the point right. like if I'm going to drink. if I'm gonna have a glass of wine it has. to be really good I don't have a hard. time opening a bottle of wine that I.

bought and deciding actually I don't. like it that much and pouring it down. the sink I'm not gonna drink it because. it's there. um. so that's that's kind of how I think. about it now there are a couple of. rules I think that make drinking less. toxic so rule number one is really try. not to have more than one drink in a day. and definitely not more than two. the hard rule there for me second is I. do not want to be drinking more than. three hours or less than three hours. before bed.

in other words I do not want alcohol to. negatively impact my sleep which it has. a devastating consequence of my sleep so. if I'm going to drink I want I'd rather. have a cocktail early than drink into. the wee hours of the night. sleep's really important to you isn't it. for sure super important to meso and. life-changing this little weep thing. yeah yeah I see that I've actually. changed my life and you've probably. noticed how your whoop score changes. with and without alcohol. and it's all flashing red and it's the. first time that happened I had one glass.

of wine and I woke up the next day and. my my Vital Signs my heart rate. variability was flashing red and it. literally says did you have a drink last. night it changed my life yeah it changed. my life forever and honestly I'm. absolutely obsessed with sleep in a very. healthy way some people think oh that's. you know you might be waking up and. feeling bad no I look at it and if I've. not slept well I'll adjust my day. accordingly. um you share some stats around sleeping. in the book what are what it what is the. stat or the two stats that changed your. perspective on sleeping or that really. you would you would tell someone if.

you're trying to convince them of the. importance of sleep. it's so interesting I'll tell you it's. not even a stat I think it's more of it. almost goes back to the type of. discussion you'd have with somebody like. a Daniel Lieberman right thinking about. this through the lens of our ancestors. so. um I I was always someone who. de-prioritized sleep. um you know very busy person uh high. energy didn't really seem to need that. much of it even in high school uh was.

sort of always go go and. um you know at one point I was sort of. having a discussion with a with a. colleague about sleep and I was making. the argument that like I didn't really. need any of it you know and. um. I almost you know made a point like it's. almost a shame we can't just work our. way out of it and he sort of posed to me. in a very Socratic way. well you know given how. evolutionarily. unwise sleep would be right you are.

unconscious for a third of your life and. me we know that our ancestors slept on. an average of about seven to eight hours. every 24 hours they didn't do it always. straight away but we know that they're. sleeping basically a third of their life. um that's a time when you can't forage. for food you can't defend yourself. against predators you're not mating like. there's nothing from an evolutionary. perspective you're doing those are the. three highest priorities of evolution.

and you're not doing them why would. Evolution have kept this thing around. like and by the way why has no species. figured out a way out of it. and I think through that lens I was sort. of like huh. yeah interesting maybe this thing does. matter. so in some ways I think that's probably. one of the most powerful things that you. can hear. um and sure there are lots of statistics. about how fragmented sleep broken sleep. or short sleep can increase your risk in. particular of cardiovascular disease and.

dementia I think there's a less clear. relationship to cancer but I think the. relationship is quite clear to. cardiovascular disease and dementia in. addition to insulin resistance and. obviously therefore weight gain so for. people even if you're just coming at. this through the lens of of of weight or. or excess body fat I mean that's. probably motivation enough for many. people and then of course there's how. you feel and how you perform and your. creativity and your ability to. articulate yourself which I notice in. your mood huge one for me especially.

when you're running teams. unslept days in my worst days. um the last thing I wanted to ask you. about was just again a conversation I've. had with my friends recently when I say. my friends I mean this group of my five. best mates and different voices in in. the group about hormone replacement. therapy and one of my friends in. particular is very keen on it he says. that when we get older we should all. take I think testosterone I think it's. trt. um because it will help us in all these. different ways and I've sat here and. spoken to people about menopause as well. and. um the hormone therapy you can take when.

you when you go through menopause what. is your position on on taking these. um hormone replacement therapies to. improve our. Health span and our emotional state Etc. yeah I think um it's a long discussion. but I have a lot of podcasts on this. topic because I think it's so. misunderstood. um. you know we have a lot of data on the. use of testosterone replacement therapy. in men and while I think it is generally. over prescribed and I think generally at.

least in the U.S men are receiving trt. far too early in their lives. um. I think the the data for responsible use. of trt uh are very positive so uh the. risk uh you know again historically the. risk would be increased risk of prostate. cancer increased risk of heart disease. those have not borne out again at. physiologic doses a very low risk. proposition that comes with many.

benefits uh most notably of course being. benefits of body composition but also. insulin sensitivity. um I think the cognitive benefits are a. little more controversial not entirely. clear that testosterone replacement. therapy preserves cognition as we age. but it hasn't been studied perfectly so. it's I think that's a bit of a TBD. as far as estrogen and progesterone. replacement therapy or hormone. replacement therapy for women I think. this is unfortunately a very. controversial topic that shouldn't be uh.

I think it's anybody who's really. scrutinizes the literature here as. opposed to just chooses to believe what. they were told. um has to come away believing that it's. a net positive for women especially. women who are symptomatic right so women. who are having hot flashes and night. sweats as they're going through. menopause they benefit enormously from. hormone replacement therapy and in the. case of HRT for women the estrogen is so. important as it protects their bone. density so women really go through this.

risk of osteopenia and osteoporosis when. they go through menopause because their. bones get weaker in response to estrogen. loss so being able to restore that is is. so important and then of course you have. all of the sexual side effects of. menopause as well that are ameliorated. by estrogen another thing that hasn't. been. yet completely well studied but I think. is becoming increasingly of interest in. the United States is the use of. testosterone replacement therapy in. women as well so most people don't. associate testosterone with women but.

it's actually a very interesting. statistic that women have 10 times more. testosterone in them than they do. estrogen. it's just that estrogen is the dominant. hormone for their sexual characteristics. so we mostly just think about their. estrogen and progesterone but we should. never ignore their testosterone because. a it's ten times more abundant than. their estrogen even though it's. 1 20th as abundant as it is in a male. but it still plays an important role in. muscle mass mood and libido and sexual.

function orgasmic function all sorts of. things so we think a ton about all of. these hormones in our patients and um. I think. um you know you just have to make sure. that if you're going down that path. you're doing it with a doctor who really. understands it because there are some. real big mistakes that can get made. especially in young men who end up on a. high dose of testosterone and they. haven't been told that hey by the way. you know a couple years into this if. you're on a high dose of testosterone.

you're going to lose the ability to make. your own. and you're not going to be able to make. sperm either really you can imagine. imagine being 30 having you know some. Doc in a box puts you on a boatload of. testosterone and then when you're 35. you're like yeah I think me and my wife. want to have kids and you're like nope. that's not happening. wow so there's one has to be one has to. know what they're doing because there. are ways to give other hormones that. preserve fertility and things like that.

I'm super scared of all this stuff you. know I'm super scared of messing with. the chemical balance of my body uh it's. my default is is I don't even take like. what you call it like penicillin if I'm. if I have excruciating pain somewhere in. my body I won't take any medicine. because I'm because I always ask myself. the question what's the cost there's. always a cost somewhere and I don't. think we think about that enough and one. of the things obviously happening at. this chapter of my life is my hair is. going to recede. and I'm watching as my friends will. battle this in their own ways some of. them are doing the testosterone shampoo. some of them are taking pills for it I. am I've surrendered it's going back I.

don't care because I'm too scared to. mess with my chemicals I don't want my. libido to go I don't want to not be. opportunity actually I'll just share one. last interesting story with you so there. is um the most common drugs that are the. most common pills that are used for. treating that are called five Alpha. reductase Inhibitors so again I don't. know what their names are in the UK but. in the in the U.S the two drugs are. finasteride and dutasteride for receding. hairlines yeah okay so these are drugs. that block the conversion of.

testosterone to a more much more potent. Androgen called dihydrotestosterone DHT. so testosterone gets turned into DHT by. an enzyme called five Alpha reductase. DHT is the hormone that's driving hair. loss so understandably if you take a. drug that blocks that enzyme you will. make less DHT you will have less hair. loss. um and these drugs do work but.

a relatively small but not insignificant. number of men. who take these drugs have awful side. effects and the scariest part is it. appears that a subset of those men do. not. lose the side effect even if they stop. taking the drug and the side effects are. very sexual right so these are you know. difficulty achieving orgasm loss of. libido. um and and you know so it's a very.

controversial topic. um but I think it's something that we. definitely want to make sure men are. aware of when they're taking high doses. of these hormones. that is exactly why I'm not taking them. that is exactly why I'm not taking them. I'm just always scared I have that. default man messing with the chemicals. in my body there's no free lunch in life. is there your book is amazing. um your book is really really amazing. um very very comprehensive you took many. many many many many many many many many. years to write it and it's really an. amalgamation of all of your insights.

your podcasts your your Genius and your. lived experience and your perspective. it's a wonderful wonderful book that I. highly recommend anybody who's. interested in the subject map we've. talked about today. going goes and gets there's so much more. that we could have talked about in there. if anybody wants the more and more. detail and all the stuff we've talked. about the book is the place to go we. have a closing tradition on this podcast. where the last guest leaves a question. for the for the next guest not knowing. who they're going to leave it for. um and I don't get to read it until I. open the book so the question that was. left for you by Our Last guest they.

don't know who they're leaving it for so. um. this is also the longest question I've. ever seen in this new age of AI when. Humanity has logic. machines that will outlogic humans how. are you going to help Humanity lead with. love what is your purpose as a human in. a world where AI is contributing to life. hmm.

I think my answer is going to be very. uninteresting because I have relatively. low. um. expectations that my life will matter. that much in the new world so I think. that the most important impact I will. have is on my kids I think this is. probably more about the world my kids. will inherit and therefore I think the.

most important thing I can do is ensure. that my kids are. um as well adjusted as possible. um and as curious as intellectually. curious as possible and so whatever I. can do to sow those seeds is probably. going to have a better impact on the. humanity of the world than anything I. would do. thank you. thank you so much thank you for writing. this book and taking giving me so much.

of your time I really really appreciate. that and you've helped me to answer some. really important questions in my life. that are genuinely really really. important and obviously my job then is I. go on and do this podcast forever and. I'm going to continue to harvest all of. that wisdom and share it with everybody. and and take that forward so thank you. so much for your generosity there um. it's an amazing book you have a great. podcast as well highly recommend. everyone can check this book out outlive. by Dr Peter an amazing book thank you so. much thank you very much really enjoyed. it. [Music]. I'm someone that understands probably.

from doing this podcast the importance. of having Greens in my diet but do I. achieve that every week in the chaos of. my life do I achieve that sometimes the. answer is no with heels Daily Greens the. probability of me achieving that is now. almost 100 because of its convenience. and because of the ease of preparing. this one scoop. 10 second Shake. and you're ready to go this is. the best product that he'll have. released in recent times many of you. will think of alternatives to this but I. I've tried those Alternatives and none.

of them are as tasty as fuel's Daily. Greens it was out of stock because of. the demand it's now back in stock for. everybody in the USA right now it's not. available in the UK but when you get a. chance just try it that's all I'm gonna. say. just try it and I think once you try it. you'll understand why this is such an. essential part of my life right now and. will probably. become an essential part of yours. [Music].

oh.