The Exercise Neuroscientist: NEW RESEARCH, The Shocking Link Between Exercise And Dementia!

In this box is a real preserved human. brain named Betty. And I think you. should hold it. Oh my god, it's wet. And now we're going to go through all. the tools and tricks to make your brain. as healthy as it can be. Are you ready? Wendy Suzuki, the neuroscientist and. professor at New York University. Her first-hand research on the brain is. helping to improve memory, learning, and. higher cognitive abilities in humans. Let me start with exercise. All the research shows the more you.

exercise, the more change in your brain. we notice. Every drop of sweat counted. And the best kind of exercise that you. can do is. What about things that we consume? Food, drink, and alcohol. It's all the Mediterranean diet. Go. ahead. Coffee. And then my memory's not great. Most people feel that. But there's four. things that you can do to make memories. stick. Number one is. Is it true that if we have less friends, then our brain will shrink?

Yes, loneliness damages the brain. Can you see if someone's in love in the. brain? Yes, in the side here. A lot of the. reward areas are activated. Doesn't that mean then that if we don't. fall in love, the love part of my brain. gets smaller? And would that make it. more difficult to love in the future? That's a great question. So. Wendy, do you have any brain routines? Absolutely. So every morning I like to. Oh, and then I do the most powerful tool. that you can do to protect your brain. from aging and neurodegenerative disease. states, which is.

We've just hit 6 million subscribers on. the Diary of a CEO. Um, so me and my. team would like to do something we've. never done before as a little thank you. And we're calling it the Diary of a CEO. subscriber raffle. And here is how it. works. Every episode this month, we're. going to pick three current subscribers. at random, and we'll send one of you a. £1,000 voucher, one of you tickets to. come and watch the Diary of a CEO behind. the scenes live with our team, and one. of you will have a 10-minute phone call. with me to discuss whatever you want to. talk about. If you're a subscriber, you're in the raffle. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

for allowing me to do something that me. and my team love doing so much. It is. the greatest honor of my lifetime, and I. hope that I hope it continues off into. the future. Let's get to the episode. You just said to me that much of your. work is focused on making sure people. have big, fat, fluffy brains. Yes. Why does that matter? It matters because a big, fat, fluffy. brain is a healthy brain, and.

my whole first book, Healthy Brain, Happy Life, was about how I learned to. use all the tools and tricks and magic. of neuroscience and psychology to make. my brain work better, and I so needed it. at that moment. My life got better. I. got happier. It is a pathway to a happy. life, I think. Having a very healthy, big, fat, fluffy. brain. Do you think people appreciate the. importance of their brain?

No. I think they ignore it all the time. And I think that is part of my part of. my message to everybody that that the. human brain, that is the one in your. head right now, is the most complex. structure known to humankind. Not. Einstein's brain, not Marie Curie's. brain, but the one in your head. And. when you think about that, it gives you. more of a self-appreciation. of all of the computations that is.

taking for me to see you and appreciate. your face and be able to remember your. face next time I see you when I go to my. Diary of a CEO podcast and and choose an. episode, all of that is is such a. complex structure. Um you start to. appreciate your own kind of brain. functioning more. I think that's a very. important thing to do. Why don't we appreciate our brains? Cuz. we appreciate a lot of other things. Yeah. We spend a lot of time on our like our. muscles. Yeah, our abs. Yeah.

I think that that's a great analogy and. part of my goal is to kind of shift the. focus from focusing on certain body. parts to focusing on what our brain is. doing for us, what it can do for us, and. what we can do to change our. environments to get to that big fat. fluffy brain, to get it healthy, to get. it happy, to get it growing. If I achieve a big fat fluffy brain, how would my life be different? I'm. saying me, Steve Bartlett. I'm a.

podcaster, I'm an I'm an entrepreneur, I'm. relationships, I've got friends, girlfriend, family. How would I show up. differently if I was able to make my. brain big, fat, fluffy? Yeah. So, uh let me start with the two. areas that we know respond really, really well to things like meditation. and exercise. Those two brain areas are. the hippocampus, critical for long-term. memory, your ability to form and retain. new long-term memories and for facts and. events. And the second brain area is. your prefrontal cortex, right behind.

your forehead, critical for your ability. to shift and focus attention. Um it's. important for your personality, for. decision-making. Can you show me on there? Is it you. brought. Absolutely. I brought a human brain. You You have. that. a model of a brain as well. a model of the brain. Okay, let's start. with the model of the brain. So, here is a model of the human brain. So, there's a front part and a back. part. This front part is right behind. our forehead. That's the prefrontal. cortex, critical for the ability to.

shift and focus attention. Also, a part. of the brain that is very responsive to. what you bring into your life. Exercise. actually really helps the prefrontal. cortex. Meditation. helps area 10 of the prefrontal cortex, which is right in the very front, right. here. The second brain area that you. will benefit from when you make your. brain big and fat and fluffy is a. structure called the hippocampus, which. is which is very deep in this lobe,

deep in this lobe right here, which is. the temporal lobe. The hippocampus. Hippocampus means seahorse, and the. hippocampus is critical for your ability. to to form and retain new long-term. memories for facts and events. You have. one on the right and you have one on the. left. So, for you, superstar podcaster, what do you need to. do? You need to remember all the details. of that guest that you're sitting in. front of. You need to be able to focus. What did they say? What do I want to ask.

next? And how do I want to come back to. those things? That is a combination of. what your prefrontal cortex is doing for. you and your hippocampus is doing for. you. So, I submit that you, when you do. these things that we know from. neuroscience, are going to make your. prefrontal cortex and your hippocampus. big and fat and fluffy, you will be. better at doing your job as a podcaster. I am better as a dean and a professor of. neuroscience and and teaching in class,

for example, is where I'm using my. prefrontal cortex and my hippocampus the. most. Most of us would benefit from. these things that make our brains big. and fat and fluffy. Was there a point in your life where you. had a personal epiphany or revelation. about the brain that made you so. passionate about the subject? Absolutely. Absolutely. So, this story. starts when I was in the middle of. getting tenure um at New York. University. So, it takes six years. Uh. you have six years to prove yourself as.

a scientist and do something. groundbreaking. And if you don't, you're. fired. So, no big deal. No pressure. there. And I decided to only just work. Work, work, work. I didn't have a lot of. social interactions. I was just working. and I just just threw myself into work. And I was getting burnt out. And. I decided to go on a river rafting trip. to Peru. by myself cuz I had no friends. So I go. on the river rafting trip and it's. great. It's beautiful. We're river.

rafting. We're we're camping on Aztec. burial sites and it is just spectacular. But I realized that I'm the weakest. person on this trip. And when I got back. after this wonderful, you know, two. weeks in Peru, I said I never want to feel like the. weakest person on a trip like that. again. And it was so great to to be. moving and to be exercising. So I. decided I'm going to go to the gym and. I'm going to continue this. physical activity at the gym. And.

somehow it stuck. I had I had let myself. go, not no exercise at all. And when I. started going to the gym regularly, I. noticed that that great mood that I. found in Peru every day during the river. rafting trip stayed with me. I think. everybody in my lab loved it when I was. going to the gym. And I started to. notice not only I got stronger, I was. feeling better, that mood boost that I got from physical. activity was so powerful. But then one.

day this you asked me about this. revelation I had. It was one day I was. sitting in my office. writing a grant, which is usually something that I have. to do very regularly, but usually. something that I'm pulling my hair out. It's so hard. It's very competitive. I'm. competing against Nobel laureates for. the same pot of money. And I had this thought that went through. my mind, which was. gosh, writing. went well today. I I'd never had that.

thought before ever in my I had been. there for five years at at NYU writing. grants. And so um, I um, I thought, "Oh, maybe maybe I'm just having a good day. I'm feeling good.". But I realized that the um, the writing seemed to have been getting. a little bit better over time. I had. noticed it a little bit if I think about. it. And the only thing I had changed in. my life was regular physical activity. inspired by that trip to Peru. And so, I'm a neuroscientist. I went to.

the literature and I asked, "Well, what. do we know right now about what exactly. exercise is doing?". And it showed at that moment in time, about 10 15 years ago, that exercise can improve your mood, exercise actually makes your memory work. better, and exercise improves the. function of your prefrontal cortex. And. I thought, "Wow, that that is amazing.". But the last part of the story was that.

when all of this was going on, this was. after this day of realizing, "Gosh, something's you know, my writing is. better and um, maybe it's exercise." Um, I got a call from my mom who said that. my father wasn't feeling well and that. he had gotten lost driving back from the. coffee shop that he drove to every day, every afternoon for the last 20 years. And the hippocampus, that structure. critical for memory, is particularly. important for spatial memory. And as an.

expert in the hippocampus, as I am, I. knew that that was a telltale sign of. dementia and maybe Alzheimer's dementia. But as I talked to my father and of. course we went and got him uh, neurology. appointment, I saw that everything that. seemed to be improving in me, that is. memory, focus, completely and very very suddenly uh, diminished in him. His memory was. terrible. He couldn't focus. He was also.

very depressed because he could notice. how poor his memory was. And I think those things together, what. I was noticing in myself about the. physical effects of the effects of. physical activity on my own brain. function, and seeing my father go. through which what was a really. precipitous loss of his cognitive. functions, that turned out to be. Alzheimer's dementia. Made me think that the power of physical.

activity needed to be explored more. deeply. And by me. I I was waking up in the. morning thinking about what can we what. can I do to better understand how. physical activity could be used not just. for me, for my students? Can they study. better? Can they learn better? Can it. help maybe not my father, I wasn't sure. whether exercise could help my father at. that point, but as people age, that was. the revelation that I had that made me. actually switch my research focus from.

memory function to understanding the. effects of physical activity on the. brain. All of this is rooted in a. fact that was once not considered a. fact, which is the idea that our brains. can change shape. Yes. Yeah. Which is this idea of brain plasticity. I mean, I really learned about this a. couple of years ago cuz I think I, like. many people, didn't realize that like. muscles, my brain changes shape based on. what I do. Yes. And also what I consume. Yes. I guess.

Yes. What is the evidence for the studies. that we have that proves our brains do. change shape? Yeah, that's such a great question and. uh it takes me back to the first day of. my freshman year at UC Berkeley. When I. walked into the classroom, I didn't know. at the time, but the classroom of the. professor that discovered brain. plasticity. Her name is Marian Diamond. and she was the very first female PhD in. neuroanatomy that UC Berkeley ever gave. Um I walked into her classroom in the. '80s when I went to college, but she.

discovered this in the late 1960s. Um, when it was thought, as you said, that the adult brain can't change at. all. There's absolutely no evidence for. it. And that was true at the time. She. thought, "Hmm, I don't think that's. true. Let's Let's do a simple. experiment. Let's try and um. uh look at the effects in two randomly. grouped set of rats. One that lives in. what they would consider an enriched. environment. What would be an enriched.

environment? Well, for her, it was a rat. cage full of toys that got changed out. all the time, lots of other rats to play. with, and um lots of lots of activity. I. think of it as the Disney World of rat. cages. And she compared the brains of. those rats to rats that she raised in. kind of a shoebox, a smaller. environment. They got free food and. water, all the food and water they could. eat and drink, but maybe only one other. rat and no toys. Now, if the adult brain They were all. the same age, they were adults. If the.

If the adult brain didn't change, then. there should be absolutely no difference. between the brains raised in Disney. World and the brains raised in the. shoebox. But she found that the. the brains of those rats raised in the. Disney World of rat cages, the outer. covering of the brain, the outside of. the brain here, I'm pointing to the. outside of this brain model here, called. the cortex, it was actually thicker. She. was She was a neuroanatomist, and she. showed that the thickness of this outer.

covering actually grew. What does that. mean? There were more synaptic. connections there. In Not in the whole. brain, in certain brain areas. That made. sense. The visual cortical area. There. was much more visual stimulation in the. Disney World of rat cages. The motor. areas were thicker. The somatosensory, the touch areas were thicker because. they were interacting in a much more. complex way with their touch system. And that was the first demonstration the. adult brain could change, and that it.

would actually make the cortex of the. brain grow. And now we know, what is it about the. Disney world of rat cages, you know? Um, is it the toys? Should we all be playing. with toys? Later studies showed that you. get almost identical effects just by. giving rats a running wheel. Physical activity is doing all of that, has the potential to change all of that. in the rodent brain, and now in the.

human brain. Didn't they find something similar with. um, London taxi drivers? I always hear. this. I I thought it was like a wasn't. sure if it was true or like a rumor, but. no. It's absolutely true. That is a. different form of brain plasticity, which is something that we all do, and. my students do hopefully very well, which is learning. So, can learning the streets of London, which are I can't remember the the the. number of different streets that London. taxicab drivers have to learn to pass.

the famous test called the knowledge, but I do remember that it takes them 4. years to study for this test. It is. intense. uh knowledge. You have to learn all the. lawful ways to get from all the big. landmarks to be a certified London. taxicab driver. And what uh my colleague. Eleanor Maguire, uh professor of. neuroscience at University College. London, did is she followed wanna-be. London taxicab drivers during their 4.

years of the knowledge, this test for. London taxicab drivers, knowing that. half of them were going to fail. They're. they're they were not going to make it. And so, she tested them at the beginning. and asked, "How is your memory?" Uh, and. how big is your hippocampus? Identical for all all of the wannabe. London taxi cab drivers before they. started. She scanned their brains. Yeah, she scanned their brains and she. tested their memory. Okay. Behaviorally. Then they go through, half of them drop.

out, they don't become London taxi cab. drivers and half of them become. certified London taxi cab drivers after. successfully learning all of this. Now. let's see, how big is your hippocampus. and how good is your memory? The people. that passed the test and became London. taxi cab drivers, the posterior part of. their hippocampus, which is the part we. know is important for it with posterior. is back towards the back of the head, the posterior part of the hippocampus, which is kind of a cigar-shaped.

structure that goes from the front part. of the brain to the back part of the. brain, that back part of the brain was. significantly bigger in those London. successful London taxi cab drivers. compared to the failed London taxi cab. drivers. And the memory of the. successful London taxi cab drivers were. now superior to the memory of the. wannabe London taxi cab drivers that. failed. So that is an example of how.

intense learning in a particular part of. the brain, we know the posterior hippocampus is. absolutely involved in spatial learning, that can change the actual structure and. the function. How much of a difference can we make? I'm 31 years old now. Yeah. So if I got serious about my brain. health, Yeah. how much of a difference can I. realistically see? You know, I'm trying to figure out if. it's worth it. Yeah. If it's worth caring about my brain. Mhm.

Is Is there any evidence within the. literature, within studies that have. been done that show if I start now, even. though I'm like 30 31 years old, my life will be different in the future. in the areas that I care about. profoundly if I start caring about my. brain. Let me be very very um. um concrete here. The answer is. absolutely yes. First, I'm going to give. you results of a study in people that. are 65 and older. So, study people that. are 65 and older.

and asked, "What is the probability of. getting dementia in the next 6 years. depending on the level of activity that. you have just right now?". Physical activity. And they measured it in how many walks. you take per week. And if you took three walks a week or. more, you were 30% less likely to develop. dementia in the next 5 years. So, ooh, 30%. uh less likely to develop dementia. My.

father passed away of Alzheimer's. dementia. That makes me sit up and take. notice. But the But the thing that. should make you as a 31-year-old uh. really sit up and take notice is the. larger correlations that show that the. longer you have regular physical. activity in your life, the longer you're. able to stave off dementia. The more. active you are over your lifetime, um. that first study shows that it's never.

too late to start. You can start walking. regularly, which is doable when you're. uh perhaps at that age. But the longer. you stay active, the bigger and fatter. and fluffier your brain will be. Why. does that make sense? So, one key piece of information that I. haven't told you yet. is that we know that physical activity. is releasing a whole Every single time. you move your body, you're releasing a. whole bunch of neurochemicals in your. brain. Some of them make you just feel.

good. Serotonin, dopamine, noradrenaline, endorphins. Yeah, I feel. good. If I go out for a walk, I feel. better than if I had been sitting here. for 8 hours. But, the other thing that. gets released every single time is. growth factors. I like to call it a. bubble bath of neurochemicals that. happens every time you move your body. What that. growth factor does is it goes directly. into your hippocampus, and it helps. brand new cells grow in your. hippocampus. The hippocampus is only one.

of two total brain areas where new cells. can grow. That's not the same as. synapses, which are connections in the. cells that are already there. But, the. hippocampus can grow new cells, and this. is really important because many people. know that the hippocampus is attacked. first in Alzheimer's dementia. And so, exercise is not going to. eliminate that disease state, but if you. start with a huge, fluffy hippocampus, it's going to take that disease that.

much longer to actually damage enough of. your hippocampus so that you start. seeing those telltale signs of memory. impairment that comes with Alzheimer's. disease and and dementia in general. Same thing with the prefrontal cortex. Your prefrontal cortex can grow with. physical activity. That's not neurons, but new synapses can grow. Age and neurodegenerative disease states. can damage cells, but also take away. synapses. I got two questions on that. So, the.

first is about dementia and Alzheimer's. Do we know what's causing it? No. We still don't know. No. And there's not. good drugs, unfortunately, right now. There's a lot of links to lifestyle. choices there, right? Yes, absolutely. And so, of course, from based on what I. just said, my number one most powerful. tool that you can do to protect your. brain from aging and neurodegenerative. disease states is start walking.

Why do I start with that? Because. everybody can walk. You don't need to. buy any new fitness outfits. Just go out. and walk more. And then they say, "Oh, well, do I have to become a marathon. runner?" That could help, too. But everybody can walk. And from that. study that I mentioned in the. 65-year-old, si- 30% reduction in um the. probability of getting Alzheimer's with. just walking. You said that if I go and start walking. and I do exercise, my prefrontal cortex. will grow.

Which is the decision-making center, right? Yes. So, does that mean then that if I am. somebody who is very sedentary, I don't. do much physical activity, Mhm. that my decision-making will be worse. compared to what it could be with the. same person if they were active? Yes. I mean, that there is that. potential. Brain plasticity and the. neuroscience of brain plasticity tells. us that absolutely with physical. activity, uh you have great potential to. improve the function of your prefrontal. cortex. And I must specify a little bit.

Uh the main function that is um that has. been shown to be particularly sensitive. to regular physical activity is um. shifting and focusing your attention. So, being able to um listen to me while. you might be paying attention to uh the. AV guy that might be telling you. something right now. So, to be able to. do that effectively, uh that that is one. of the things that we know is helped. with regular physical activity. Focus and attention, that kind of thing. Okay. You talked about memory as well. Does that Does that exist in the.

prefrontal cortex as well? Uh there's a form of memory, working. memory, uh which is kind of scratchpad. memory. It's a memory that um when we. used to have to remember telephone. numbers, that that the ability to. remember a seven-digit, at least in the. United States, telephone number. It's. different from long-term memory. formation, which is memory for facts and. events uh that is dependent on the. hippocampus. I feel like my memory is not great. Most people feel that. Why is my memory not as good as other.

people? Because I I noticed this when I I was. with my friend in um Thailand many years. ago. I think I was 21 years old and we. could like leave the house and go on our. little mopeds for about an hour and he. could navigate us back home without. needing sat nav or Google Maps. And if I. go 3 minutes down the street, I'm lost. Mhm. And I always wondered why that was. Is. it because And then even with names and. stuff, I would always He's my best. friend. He's He's one of my best friends. for for 7 8 years. We ran a business. together and he would remember every.

name of every person. and I couldn't. I wouldn't. And so I'd. always turn to him and say, "What was. that person's name again? What's that. you know?". And I always wondered why my memory He. seemed to have this incredible memory. and mine seems to be pretty rudimentary. I would argue that um yeah, everybody. has parts of their memory that aren't as. good as they want, but also other forms. of memory that they're very good at. So, I would guess, I've only just met you. today, that your memory for stories and.

storytelling and story progress is. excellent because it has to be for the. job that you do. I bet you it's much. better than your friend that can. navigate back. Not everybody has a. perfect memory in all the different. dimensions and and it's like our. personality. Some people have a. wonderful sense of humor and others. don't. Um It is about how our brains are. wired, which is defined both by nature. and nurture, our genes and you know, if. I if I went to uh stand-up comedy class, I would probably get funnier, but um uh.

but there's probably a limit to my. funniness compared to other people. So, there's different types of memory. Yes. In your book, you talk about there being. I think it's like three different types. of memory in total. That are formed in the hippocampus. Uh there's lots of different names for. forms of memory in the hippocampus. Um. but I like to describe it as The. hippocampus is critical for our memory. for facts and and events. Um also called. declarative memory or cognitive memory. Uh another form of memory that's.

dependent on a completely different. structure is motor memory, like the. memory that you uh use to learn how to. play tennis or pickleball or whatever. you're playing. And it's not. declarative. I can't declare how I do a. backhand in in in tennis, but it is in. your motor functions. And and this is. dependent on the striatum and a a. motor-related structure. And then. there's the prefrontal cortex dependent. on that working memory or scratchpad. memory, keeping things in mind. So um. you and I are both trying to remember.

what we've just said so we can we can. link it to things that we might say in. the future. Uh uh one of the things I found really. interesting, both as a marketer but also. as a podcaster and as someone that's. making a lot of. content and trying to get people's. attention, was as I was reading through. your work it became quite clear to me. that there's an a bit of an overlap. between memory and attention in in many. respects because you were talking about. these four things that make facts or. events memorable. And many of those. things are things that I think about as. a marketer when I'm trying to get. someone. that make facts or events memorable. Yes. And many of those things. are things that I think about as a. marketer when I'm trying to get someone.

to, you know, engage with something, click on something, buy something. What. are those four things? Okay. Can we go through them? Absolutely. So I like to say there are. four things that make memory stick. And this is after 25 or 30 years. studying the hippocampus and and how. memories work. Number one is obvious. repetition. Okay. You you remember things with repetition. Number two, not as obvious, association. The hippocampus is an associative.

structure. It associates one thing with. the other. Uh for example, your name and. your face. So I'm you know, I've just. met you and I mean I I I will remember. your name and your face now, but it also. helps you remember things like who's. married to each other, associating the. husband with the wife. Uh have you heard. of the memory palace? Uh yes. Yes. So, this is a technique that has. been used for many, many. ages uh to help remember things. And it. is a strategy where you picture a.

special location. that's very familiar to you, like your. childhood home. And when you need to. remember a list of items, you take an. imaginative walk through that very. familiar environment and place those. items in particular locations in the. environment. That is associating. something really familiar, your. childhood home, you know every corner of. it, with the new thing you need to. remember. And that works uh and has. worked for memory champions for many.

years because the hippocampus associates. things together. That's number two, association. Number. three is novelty. We remember novel. things. I've never been to this. particular studio ever before in my 26. years in New York and Brooklyn. So, this. is a novel thing and I remember I will. remember coming here uh to do this. podcast with you. Our brains, and this. is where it interacts with the attention. system. Our attention system focuses on.

things that are novel. Why? Because it. could be dangerous. If I've seen it. things over and over and over again, I. don't notice them. They go into the. background. It's not going to hurt me. any, you know, it's not it's not going. to cause me any danger. Cliché. That's why cliché doesn't work. in marketing. Exactly. Yeah. And so, but something. novel, ooh, that really uh perks people. up. I use that in my teaching all the. time. Surprise students uh with uh an. element of what you want them to learn,

and they will remember it better. But the fourth one, which is so. powerful, and we know it intuitively, we. understand this intuitively, is. emotional resonance makes things more. memorable. We remember the happiest and the saddest. things in our lives because that. emotional resonance is solidifies those. memories. Where does that come from? It. comes from a structure called the. amygdala that sits right in front of the. hippocampus, right in the front of the.

temporal lobe, right here. And the. hippocampus is right behind it. Amygdala. means almond. It's an almond-shaped. structure and it sits right in front of. um the kind of tube-shaped structure. that is the hippocampus behind it. And. the amygdala is kind of infusing uh the. hippocampus and kind of getting a giving. it a little jolt when it's emotionally. resonant, either really happy or really. sad. You brought with you what you've told me.

is a real human brain. Yes, I did. Now, I'm not sure if you're just winding. me up, but we're talking here about. novelty and surprise and. That's right. things you'll never forget and emotional. resonance. Correct. And while you're saying that, I was. conscious that over in the corner of the. room it appears that there's a human. brain in a box. So, Jack is just. bringing the human brain in. Yes. I've never seen a human brain before. You've never seen That's why I brought. you gloves so that you can hold it if. you like. If you like. Do you have permission.

to If there is a human brain in this box. and you're not winding me up, did you. have to get permission from the. owner of that brain? So, um this was. purchased uh lawfully um by my. department, the Center for Neural. Science at New York University. So, it. is lawfully ours to use as a teaching. tool. And it does bring enormous novelty to. any situation that I go into and makes. people really think about their brain in.

a new way, which is why I bring it. What is in that box? In this box is a real preserved human. brain named Betty. Was the person. who used to own that brain called Betty? No, we don't know the name of the. person. I named this brain Betty, so. Can you Can you tell if it's a man or a. woman? No, I can't. Huh. Man Men and women brains not. different at all? They are, but in very, very subtle ways. that we wouldn't be able to tell just.

looking at the the outside of the brain. like this. Okay, I'm ready. Are you ready? I think so. Okay. So, I'm going to open. the hat box. No way is that a real. out. Are you joking? Is that really a brain? It is. a real preserved human brain. There it is. Frontal lobe. Frontal lobe. Occipital lobe for vision.

Occipital lobe back there. And in this brain, I don't know if you. can see it from over there, if I pull. apart. the two hemispheres, you can see how. deep. the the folds of the brain. the surface is folded in that deep into. the brain, which expands the surface. area of the outside of the cortex. The. rat cortex is flat. There's no folds. Humans and elephants and dolphins have.

lots of folds. They have much higher. capacity for computation because of the. folds that you see in this brain. It's smaller than I was expecting. Really? Half the people say it's. smaller, half the people say, "Wow, that's that's enormous.". Interesting. Is that the the color of a. brain? The color of the brain is darker than. the real brain if we opened up my head. right now, um, because of the. formaldehyde, the the preservative.

chemical that this has been sitting in. for at least 26 years. This brain has. been in my department for. ever since I got here 26 years ago. I feel like I probably should hold it. I think you should hold it. Oh my god. It's wet. Yes. So, I mean that that has that defined. this person's whole life.

How they saw, felt, smelled, heard, and thought about the world. Just right there in your one hand, in. your right hand. It's crazy to think that this little. thing is Oh, it's different underneath. Yes. It's crazy to think that this little. thing this little. That's the start of the spinal cord. right there that you're pointing at. And this stuff at the underneath at the. back this. That is the cerebellum.

A brain structure critical for fine. motor movement. Um so, we wouldn't be. able to walk smoothly if you have damage. in your cerebellum. Isn't it interesting that like. everything, as you say, everything this. person worried about, every thought, every memory, every relationship, all of their education, the school they. went to, the university, everything they. saw and remembered, and all of their. trauma, Yep. and their. anxiety, and maybe their depression,

everything they went through, even their. last days before they died, is like. captured in this little ball of like. tofu. Yep. that sits in my hand. An entire human. being's existence. It's true. What they watched on TV, their favorite. movie, their favorite number, color, everything is in this tiny little ball. of tofu. It's true. Oh gosh. It is amazing and actually in real life.

firm tofu is the consistency of of the. brain. I often bring in a. you know a block of of firm tofu. when I demo this for students in. addition to Betty. Do you remember the first time you saw a. human brain? I do. Did it change how you think about your. own brain? It changed my life because I was like I. want to study that. That is the coolest. thing that I've ever seen in my whole.

life and I want to study that and I want. to be just like her and um. and so it it really like okay now I I. decided this is what I want to do. And it was it was. it was life-changing. I say that because we you know at the. start of this conversation we said that. most of us don't appreciate our brain. A. lot of people don't even realize it's. there. Yeah. The minute I had a brain scan one day. and that brain scan. really changed my life because seeing my.

own brain for the first time. Yeah. it was the push that I needed to start. caring more about how my decisions and. behaviors are impacting it. So let's. talk about how I can make that ball of. tofu in my head super healthy. Yeah. Right. You talked about exercise earlier on but. we didn't really dig dig into exactly. what you mean by exercise cuz exercise I. think is multifaceted in its definition. What kind of exercise should I be doing. to make my ball of tofu in my head. great. Yeah. optimal.

Mhm. Well, all the research shows that. the best kind of exercise that you can. do is anything that gives you aerobic. activity that is getting your heart rate. up. So that that goes for you know power. walking will get your heart rate up. soccer so many different things name. your activity. So many people want to. say oh. my favorite activity, will that work?". And I always just say, "Is it Is your. heart rate up when you're doing it?" If. the answer is yes, then yeah, that that. works great. We know that that level of.

aerobic activity is critical cuz that's. going to release that growth factor. maximally to get into your hippocampus. that will grow those new brain cells. How much? So, um I have an answer to that. So, um. we did two different experiments in my. lab. One in um low-fit people, people. that are really not exercising very much. at all, less than 30 minutes um. um in the last three three weeks you. you've moved your body. And um we asked.

what could we see any behavioral. improvement in your memory function from. your hippocampus or your uh ability to. shift and focus attention if we ask you. to move your body in aerobic way for two. to three times a week. And we. collaborated with a spin class, so. clearly very aerobic. And what we found. was. in those people that did successfully do. two to three times a week of 45-minute. aerobic activity,

their mood got significantly better, their memory function got better, and. their ability to shift and focus. attention got significantly better. So, that gives a little bit of a guideline. for low-fit people, two to three times a. week can start to give you some of those. some of those cognitive changes. But, you don't look low-fit. So, let me let. me answer the question you're about to. ask me. You're like, "What about me? I I. exercise pretty regularly." And um how. much how much do I need? So, to answer.

that question, we went to another spin. studio, and we said, "Look, we're going. to give you free classes. You could. exercise as much as you want in this in. this um. at this studio, and uh um go up to seven. times a week." And the control was just. stay the same. You know, you they were. they were working out twice a week at at. the studio. Control was the other group that were. you testing them against? Yes, exactly. And so what we found was. basically every drop of sweat counted.

The more you exercise, the more change. in your brain we noted. Both your. hippocampal function, prefrontal cortex. function, and mood. If you you you were already getting. benefit, you know, you're already going. twice a week. But the more you did, the. more brain changes you got. So, that. that doesn't give the formula that I. would like, but we were heading in that. direction, which is part of one of the. questions that I want to answer. But I. love to leave people with the idea that.

every drop of sweat counts for building. your brain into the big fat fluffy brain. that you really want. And then in the real world, again making it super um. real for people. Yeah. How how does that change how I show up? Yeah. If you allow it to, should have a. beautiful effect on your mindset. Um that your mindset around um. how often should I take wake up.

30 minutes early and do that walk before. I start my day or accept the the. invitation to go walk the dog with with. a neighbor. It's not an obligation. It. is something that you're doing for. yourself. It is going to have direct. benefits on that ball of tofu as you. call it in your head. It's going to make. it work better. And and I mean, I think. the most immediate thing that I benefit. from every single day is the mood boost. that you get from that serotonin,

dopamine, norepinephrine that gets. released every time you move your body. I always think that cuz obviously I do a. little podcasting and it's I'm super. reliant on my brain being attached to my. mouth and sometimes I notice that it's. not. You know what I mean? Like. sometimes I'm not articulate, I can't. get my thoughts together, whatever. Yes. And I always try I've tried to. figure out the correlation between what. I did that day when I have a good day. versus a bad day. And I've from from. your And also I speak on stage. sometimes, so I've often asked myself. cuz I saw Tony Robbins, the speaker, one. day on a trampoline before he goes up on.

stage. I asked myself, okay, should I be. doing a workout in my green room before. I go up on stage for a big talk or. presentation? You think I should? Oh yeah, absolutely. What's the basis of that in science and. neuroscience? Uh it's the basis is that immediate So. there's three key effects that we know. happen every time you move your body. First one is mood, you're going to get. your dopamine, your serotonin up. Um. second is focus and attention. So So a. single workout isn't going to make more. synapses in your prefrontal cortex, but.

the prefrontal cortex uses dopamine. And. so um it's clear that even a single. workout can make your prefrontal cortex. work better in terms of focus, attention. Also very important anytime. you're speaking. And the third is. reaction time. Your reaction time it you. know, motor your your your working your. motor cortex when you move your body and. your response and reaction time is. significantly shorter after a even a. single workout compared to if you just. don't work out and sit sit um alone. So.

great great things to do. A great thing. to do before you you stand up and speak. What about. coffee? I I I'm trying to figure out if coffee. is good for my brain, bad for my brain. I've had a couple of mixed messages. around. the impact it might be having. Yeah. You know, caffeine is a stimulant and uh. people respond to that kind of stimulant. uh in different ways. Overstimulation.

with caffeine is is not good for your. your ability to put words together. You. know, this is where I turn to uh. a main theme in in my book Healthy Brain. Happy Life with this which is. self-experimentation. For you, how what can you titrate your. coffee to see what level of coffee is. best for whatever your podcast or you're. giving a talk. The other thing that can. work similarly to coffee that that I've.

started and that I do every morning is. hot cold contrast showers because that. cold that you. shower on yourself after the heat. stimulates adrenaline in you. A natural. adrenaline. It wakes you up and okay, it was painful. the first kind of few times I tried it, but then you get addicted to it and I. have forgotten to do it and gotten back. in the shower just to douse myself with. cold water because I feel better when I.

do that for for you know, first thing in. the morning. So, lots of different. things that one can explore with. Okay, on the other side of the coin. then, what are some of the central. behaviors that people do that destroy. their brain? Well, sedentary behavior is one of them. Um, not getting enough sleep. is critical. We haven't talked about. sleep yet. Sleep is so important for. normal functioning of the brain. I like.

to scare my students by saying that um, you know, in torture situations, if you. deprive a person of sleep for too long, they literally die. They they they die. You cannot function if you are deprived. of sleep for too many hours in a row. It's that critical. Yet, we don't we we. happily you know, watch too much Netflix. at night and and and and get only 5. hours of sleep when we could have had. eight. So, what's happening exactly? Why. is it so important? Well, there's.

there's so many different things. I'm. going to I'm going to say two. One is. that we know that in regular. um healthy sleep there is activity in. the hippocampus that helps you. strengthen the memories that you have. formed in that previous day. It's called. consolidation and it's so important. If. you shorten that, if you don't get. enough, you are not consolidating your. normal everyday memories. And second, it. is the time during sleep when all the.

metabolites, all that garbage that your. brain is producing because all. biological cells produce garbage, it. gets kind of cleaned up through the. cerebral spinal fluid that that is. flowing through your brain. And if you. do not get enough sleep, you build up. garbage metabolites in your brain. It's. like you have a gunky brain. And do you. feel like I feel like I have gunk in my. brain when I don't sleep enough. That is. exactly what is what is happening. Well, when you think about things that. we consume, you know, like food and.

drink and alcohol and all these kinds of. things. Is there is there anything that. if I'm trying to have an optimal brain, I should be. Yeah. having or not having? Yeah. Well, so um. I think the most evidence is around the. benefit of the Mediterranean diet, which. is basically all healthy. kind of organ not organic, but. non-processed is the word I was trying. to think of things to eat that are very,

very colorful. There is so much evidence about how good. that is generally for the brain. That. that is my go-to. Like what what should. I eat? Well, is it on the Mediterranean. diet? If it is, then go ahead. If it's. too processed, only do it. Just a little bit. Is it true that if we have less friends, if we have less strong relationships, if. we're lonely, then our brain will shrink. and is more prone to dementia and. Alzheimer's and things like that. Yes, we are social creatures and um.

there are uh really powerful studies. that have shown the correlation between. the number of social connections that we. have, including just saying hello to the. barista at Starbucks. It's not a close. friendship that you develop over 30. years. It's It's just how many people. you interact with and greet and. longevity. The more people you are. regularly interacting with, the longer. you are living. Overall longevity. But.

if you go into brain health, absolutely. it's also very very healthy for you. It. also brings happiness. So uh friend and. colleague of mine um Robert Waldinger uh. studied um what makes people happy. The. study started in the '20s, the 1920s at. in in Harvard. And after all of those. many many many decades, the answer is. what brings happiness is the strength of. your social connections. So, it makes. you happier, it makes you live longer,

and and uh yes, loneliness on the on the. um flip side. causes stress, uh long-term stress that. that damages the brain and uh yeah, in. the long term can can make it smaller. and uh less healthy. Do you have any brain routines? Like any. like a morning routine for your brain? Absolutely. So, every morning I like to. wake up and I do a um. tea meditation, which is a meditation. over the brewing and drinking of tea. And this is after many years of yo-yo.

meditating. I knew meditation was good, but I just couldn't really get into it. and um. I was introduced to this form of. meditation um from uh by a monk who who. invited me to tea and and just did this. silent meditation outside in a beautiful. location. And the ritual and the um. um the sequence of brewing, drinking, seeping, re- starting over again kind of kept me.

in kept me in the flow. And so I start. with about a 45-minute tea meditation. Then I do about a 30-minute workout. I. try and do cardio strength. Sometimes I. do yoga. Sometimes I just do mobility. And then I have breakfast and then I go. to work. Oh, and then I I do that heart hot cold. contrast shower is also something very. helpful for my brain health because it. it really does in me that adrenaline. boost that I get just energizes me and I. love that feeling at the beginning of.

the day. Just going back to that question cuz I. want to close off on it as well. The the. idea of what would I have to do to. destroy my brain. So, no sleep. Yeah. I'm going to be sedentary. Yeah. I'm going to have no friends. Yeah. And smoking? Smoking is very bad for your health and. and your brain. Okay. Alcohol? Alcohol, I mean, yes, long-term alcohol. can cause significant and named brain. diseases. Moderation even moderation now as.

studies have shown it is not very good. And the reason why it's not good is that. alcohol disrupts your sleep. Even though. people drink it to to go to sleep. faster, the sleep is much more. superficial and is not deep and it's not. the healthy sleep. So, that is not good. overall for your for the for sleep depth. and and health and therefore brain. health. I'm going to eat a processed diet to. hurt my brain. And I'm not going to have a lifestyle.

that is. novel. Because we talked about learning. Right. Yes. not going to learn anything new. All of these things should shrink that. little. You're not going to be mindful also. Does mind Is that Is that evidence that. being mindful, which is like meditation. and being in the moment helps the brain. It does. There's beautiful studies. showing brain plasticity. in the areas that are important for. focused attention. Meditation, the. practice of meditation is basically a.

practice of. enriching the function of your. prefrontal cortex. So you can focus on. that object, either the breath or or. loving kindness is is a form of. meditation. So yes, there there's been. studies that brain changes occur in. long-term meditators that are that are. absolutely beneficial. What if I'm on social media all the. time? Because isn't that good for me because. I'm going to be seeing lots of new. things all the time and I'll be learning. lots of new things. So isn't if I sat on. a on a screen for 7 hours a day.

is that good for my brain, social media? Does that take you away from real people. and interacting with real people? Yes. Okay. Then then it's modulated by that. There. the same thing? There's a difference and I think your. brain knows it and. look, there's there's enormous amounts. of evidence showing that the increase in. use of social media. especially in young kids correlate with. huge increases in depression and anxiety.

levels particularly in young girls. So. when. when kids started getting the. smartphones and started to spend more. and more 7 hours a day on social media, that's when the anxiety and depression. went up. That's for young kids. I use. social media as well as a tool for. business. That is a little bit. different. I'm not 13 years old and. you're not 13 years old. So so you know, there there's some warnings I think that. need to go into into that. But but let.

me let me be clear. No, it's not the. same. Social media is not the same as. social interaction face-to-face with. people. Are Are are you concerned about what. social media is doing to our brains? Yes. Cuz you know we I hear we hear those. stats around, you know, young young. girls are struggling most with social. media and we think to ourselves, well, that's because there's a lot of like. comparison and all these kinds of things. and there's a lot of like toxic. messaging and such, but. if we think about the physiological. consequences of social media, what it's.

actually doing to our brains at a. chemical level. Yeah. What what would you as a neuroscientist. guess is like is the physiological harm. to the brain? Not the sort of psycholo-. I'm thinking about like not the. psychological like, okay, oh my god, she's more this than me, but like the. physiological harm. But the psychological harm causes. stress. Stress releases stress hormone. that goes into the brain that at too. high and too constant a level can start. to first damage connections and then. kill cells. So it's it's intertwined.

um there and that that is part of of. what is happening. Um you can't, you. know, pull one. one away from the other. Cuz you know, we're social media is. designed to kind of It's like pulling. the slot machine handle. I pull down on. the feed and I get ping, oh look, there's a nice picture and oh ping, there's notifications and comments, etc. It's that con- You know, I think about. the constant. They they say there's constant dopamine. hit. Yeah. to it. Is it a dopamine hit? Is that's. what's happening when we're being. stimulated by social media or a slot.

machine? Yes. And is there Is there any harm in just a. constant dopamine hit all day every day? Well, I would not I'm going to answer. that question by saying I would not want. to be addicted to gambling. That gambling is addictive. It It's hard. to get away. You You You lose all these. other things that we just decided were. all good for you, including sleep, including social connections, um. including exercise, and I think that's. part of what social media is doing for. our young kids is not good that they're.

not. joining teams outside to be social and. interactive in uh in that. kind of now it seems like an. old-fashioned way, but it's very very. powerful way for development um and. brain health. I think I'm addicted to my phone. Mhm. And I I often ask myself, is that is. that a problem? And from what you've. said, it sounds like the problem is what. I sacrifice. Yeah. through that like addiction to that. device. Yes. Is that that the issue? The issue is I.

sacrifice social connections, maybe. movement. Yeah. You know. Although I do work out every. day. But the brain is smart enough to know. that there's no substitute for real. human connections. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's going to make me what? I'm. trying to I I need you to help me. Yeah. scare me out of this. phone addiction that I think I have, but. I know many other people have as well. So, that is going to limit your. potential for brain growth for for brain.

plasticity. It is going to limit your. possibility for for, you know, not to be dramatic, but joy in in your. life. There's different kinds of joy. that you have in in real. person-to-person social interactions. that it feels pretty good on social. media if you get lots of likes and, you. know, um but it's not the same. And um. I would I would say that to scare.

yourself out you're going to have to. bite the bullet and do a 2-week phone. detox. What would that do to you? How would you. feel? I just could never imagine such a thing. Well. Which is a real shame, isn't it, really? Cuz I just think about like my ancestors. and my parents, they must. they must think I'm so strange, but it's. just the just the way that like when my. phone dies, I'm like there's like. I'm like nervously waiting for it to. come back on. I'm like staring at it. like, "Oh my god, like Like, am I going.

to do with myself?" Like, uh. and I remember those studies they did on. people where they gave them the choice. of either sitting alone with their own. thoughts or giving themselves an. electric shock, and a huge amount of. people in that study actually would. rather give themselves an electric shock. than just sit alone with their thoughts. because it's some kind of stimulation. That's kind of how I think I am now. Like, I don't know what I'd do without. my phone. It's really sad. I know. there's people listening to me now that. think I'm an absolute like I'm really. sad, but it's just the naked It's the. truth, you know? And.

um I do wonder what it's doing to my. brain, but I think you're right. I think. it's actually what it's doing to my like. my life. Yeah. The joy, the connections, the. being being there to experience things, and um. I mean, that point that you made is a. very profound one. Um the the not wanting to be alone with. your thoughts. is the core of meditation. Can you be. alone with your thoughts and focus on. something.

something organic, usually the breath, but also a thought like loving kindness. Um that is a very powerful practice to. do, and it and it's hard. I find it. hard, too. Um. and I actually I notice I find it harder. when I'm. when I'm using social media and when I'm. using my phone more. Um. but I feel most creative. and most imaginative when I do practice. that. That is, being alone with my. thoughts. What comes into mind? Um how.

how does my own imagination work, which. is very much dependent on the. hippocampus as well. It's putting. together all these things in your memory. in new and interesting ways that are. unique for you or unique for me. And it. doesn't work the same if you are. stimulating your brain with social media. all the time. You um I mean, you wrote a book that. kind of speaks to some what we're. talking about here. You wrote a book. about anxiety. Yes, I did. In 2021. Yeah, I think the the US. version's called Good Anxiety, isn't it?

Slightly different title in the US in. the UK. Yeah. Why did you write a book about anxiety? I wrote a book about anxiety because I. started to notice my students. getting much more anxious than they ever. used to be. And this was before the pandemic. I. mean, I I I had the idea to write this. book in. 2018, 2019. And. so first I noticed it in the students. They were getting so stressed out before. finals. They never did that before. So.

so many accommodations they were asking. for. And I'm like, "What's going on here?". But then I realized it wasn't just them. Like I'm getting more anxious as well. My friends are more anxious. And I. really wanted to dive into that. I. didn't want to be anxious in that way. Uh cuz part of me was like, "Oh, I'm. just a New Yorker. I'm I'm just anxious. all the time, right?" Cuz that's what. New Yorkers are. No, this has changed. And we forget that. before the pandemic, there was there was. still global warming warming. There was. still political issues that that lots of.

people, including me and all of my. students, were worried about. And that was the impetus for for trying. to dive in and ask, "Well, I made my life happier with exercise. What What is the approach when it's. anxiety? And not clinical anxiety. I did. not have clinical anxiety. And the vast. majority of my students didn't have. clinical anxiety. They had what I called. everyday anxiety. Just worried about the. things that are going on in the world. And there were just more things to be. worried about.".

Is that normal? Is that human? That is human, absolutely. But is it human in the. in is the quantity in which we. experience it human? Uh I think it is. I mean. Cuz I think about my ancestors. I go, they they probably I don't know. I. always imagine my ancestors kind of I. don't know, just chilling. Do you know like I've got. But they didn't have they didn't have. global warming where the ocean is about. to, you know, get sucked up in plastic. and and the the ozone is going to come. come down. No worries like that at all.

But but the everyday anxiety for me is. like emails. And WhatsApp. Well, by everyday anxiety I mean the. anxiety that people are feeling today. that is not at the clinical level. So, all the things that we just men-. mentioned, global warming and wars in. multiple places in the world, all of. that contributes to the higher level of. anxiety. And your ancestors and mine. went through two world wars. But and that was anxiety provoking, no. question about it. But they weren't also.

all the other things that were um. you know, contributing to it including. the higher than, you know, extremely. high anxiety and suicide levels of our. young people. that are, you know, that strongly linked. to social media. So, that's that's. another element. What did you find then when you started. uncovering and trying to go on this. search of figuring out, you know, the. the nature of anxiety and what we can do. about it? Did you first find that your. writing your hypothesis that it is.

increasing? Yeah. Yeah, that was. Do you know how much? Um you know, it it shifted over the time. that I wrote and published the book. because I started in 2018 and then it. was published in the middle of the. pandemic in 2021 where anxiety levels. went up approximately 20%. worldwide. So, um. but the social media anxiety, um that is. going up in girls even more than 20%. Um. that's kind of in parallel. So, I I I.

actually don't know how to um integrate. those two levels, but they're both going. in the same direction. Why are women, young women, becoming. more anxious and suicidality amongst. that age group is. rapidly increased. You know, I think that um it's it's that. comparison that that is so easy to do. and I see it in my own work at the. university that. when I was going to college, I had no.

idea what rank I was in in number in the. application, but they could see that. immediately. They know exactly what. number they are in each and every class. they take in their whole high school. class in the in their application to to. the five schools that they applied to or. 10 or 15 now that they're applying to. That gives a much higher level of stress. when you know those numbers immediately. Um that we never had. So so there are. stresses like that that that um they're.

they're experiencing. More information. Yeah. More. It's funny cuz more social connection, but it's I want to say social. connection, I don't mean real world. social connection. I mean more followers. and likes and. Yes. that can message me and tell me. something and DM me or comment on my. thing. Right. More noise. Yeah. The volume has increased, which is seems. to be driving more anxiety. Where do we. experience anxiety? Where from a. physiological standpoint, where is. anxiety? Cuz it feels like it's in your. chest. Yeah. So anxiety is kind of a full body.

experience and um anxiety is um. strongly linked with the stress. response. So um an anxiety-provoking. situation, you you um. meet somebody that you uh you know, had. a big fight with before. Oh, I'm. anxious. I might have to speak to that. person before. Uh that. launches that launches the stress. response. um that is um dependent on what's called.

the sympathetic nervous system. And so. this is where it becomes full body. So. what happens when your fight or flight. system is activated? Your heart rate. goes up. Your respiration goes up. Your. um irises get get bigger so you can see. everything and look out for that that. annoying person that you're worried. about. And blood is shunted from your. digestion and reproduc- reproductive. organs towards your muscles so you can. fight or run away. That's what all of. our ancestors evolved to protect us from.

not. not the social media post, but. the lion or the tiger that could come. and attack us. So it made sense for that. kind of stressor or that kind of threat. Unfortunately, our bodies do the same. exact thing when the nasty DM comes in. from somebody I wasn't sure who it is, but they're saying something really bad. about something I care about a lot. And. we get this stress response, we get. anxious because of that. And somebody. asked me, "Does that mean our brain is.

not very smart?" And the answer is our. our our stress and our threat system is. not very smart. It isn't differentiating. between the lion that could physically. kill us and the DM that might wound our. pride, but but will not kill us. But it causes. the same kind of. stress response and anxiety response. What do I do about that? You have to learn how to turn the volume. of your own anxiety down. And part of. that is I'm not saying you have to not.

look at your DMs and not look at or not. look at social social media. There's. lots of ways to turn your anxiety down. We've already talked about some of those. approaches. Exercise immediately. decreases anxiety and depression levels. And there, you don't even have to get. aerobic. 10 minutes of walking can. significantly decrease your anxiety and. depression levels. That is a powerful. tool that everybody can use right right. here right now. Breath meditation. Did you know that.

breath meditation, that is deep. breathing, um. is the oldest form of meditation. Why? Because equal and opposite to that fight. or flight response that everybody seems. to know about is the rest and digest. part of your nervous system called the. parasympathetic nervous system that. calms you down. It slows your heart rate. down, slows your respiration rate down, and shuts blood from your muscles. towards your digestion and reproductive.

organs so that you can do those weekend. rest and digest kinds of things. Well, everybody should be asking, "Well, do I. have that system?" Yes, everybody has. that system. Everybody has a. parasympathetic nervous system. How do I. activate that? The best and most. effective way that you can activate that. right now is take three deep breaths. because that's the only thing you have. conscious control over that can launch. all the rest of that parasympathetic. activity slowing your heart rate. I. can't slow my heart rate by thinking.

about it. Can I take three deep, slow. breaths right now? Absolutely. And monks. hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago. realized that. That is the thing that I. can do immediately to slow my slow my. stress response down. It's very, very. powerful. Sadness. Sadness. Sadness is um. can be linked with anxiety and um. you know, sadness like anxiety is.

something that people. I think would like to kick out of their. lives and just never have any more. at all. If I could get rid of sadness. and anxiety, I would be the happiest. person alive. But would you? Because my argument in good anxiety, my. book Good Anxiety, is that. these prickly emotions, these difficult. emotions, like anxiety, like sadness, are really, really valuable because. they're they're focusing us on things.

that we should be paying attention to. Specifically, anxiety. It is a warning. system. Oh, there's that person. Oh, you. didn't have a good interaction. You you. need to pay attention. Now, should it. throw you into a an anxiety attack? Perhaps not. Use some of these. techniques. Um like like deep breathing. and and going for a walk. But it is a. warning system. And. why is this valuable? Here's why it's. valuable. It's valuable because when you. know what.

you are worried about, your fears that. your anxiety focuses you on, it actually. tells you about what you hold most dear. in your life. And that is something that. we should all. really want to know. So, if you're a. people pleaser, um you are doing lots of things to maybe. too many things to please people, but. that means that you care about. personal interaction. And I start with. this one because I'm a people pleaser.

And I realized that people-pleasing. response and the anxiety that it does. evoke is reminding me that what's very. very valuable to me is that interaction. with people. I care about that. That's a. beautiful thing. I value that in my. life, in my personality. I'm going to let you in on a little. secret. What is in The Diary of a CEO. cup? This cup that sits in front of me. when I interview these people, sometimes. for 3 hours, and sometimes three people.

a day. And the answer is this, Huel. I. invested in the company on Dragon's Den, and since then they've gone from an idea. to the fastest-growing energy drink in. the UK. It is a matcha energy drink, and. it is absolutely delicious. But that's. not why I choose to drink it on this. podcast. The reason I choose to drink it. is because it gives me what I call. all-day energy. I don't get the same. crashes that I used to get with other. energy drinks. If you're in the middle. of a conversation, or you're in the. middle of a talk on stage, or in the. board room, the last thing you want to.

do is have a crash. You don't want. jitters, and you need focus. And that is. why they now sponsor this podcast. Not. only is it delicious, but it gives me a. significant competitive advantage. If. you haven't tried it, go down to a. Tesco, go to a Waitrose, or go online. and use the code diary10 at checkout, and you'll get 10% off. And when you do. try it, let me know how you get on. Do you think we could see love in the. brain? Can you see if someone's in love. in the brain? If we scan the brain of someone that's. in love when they're interacting with. their partner, could we see that?

Um yes, in fact, they have scanned. people who are in the throws of of uh um. romantic love, and people that are in um. you know, many years into a loving. relationship. And there are uh lots of reward areas. that get activated when you're scanning. the brain um of somebody that that, you. know, is in the throws of deep romantic. love, that is in the first few weeks. You can't get enough of the person, you're with them all the time, you can't. stop thinking about them. A lot of the.

reward areas are are activated. Uh a lot. of the social interaction areas, including the insula, uh a part of the. brain right in the side here, just just. uh. in the uh area near the ear, deep into. the cortex, get gets activated. Doesn't that mean then that if we don't. fall in love, if we don't have those. feelings, that that part of our brain might. shrink? Because if, you know, they say. often things like. you you use it or you lose it. They say.

neurons that fire together, wire. together. If I'm not in love, if I'm not. if I don't have those social. connections, will the love part of my. brain get smaller? And would that make it more difficult to. love in the future? That's a great question. I think that um. that study has not been done, but. absolutely, if uh. uh if you don't use that part of the. brain, um you will not, you know, gain. the function. And so, yeah, not not. using your love part of your brain is is. not a nothing that I would ever.

recommend. Some people, I guess, don't have a. choice. Well, I guess they have a. choice. in the sense that they can do things. They have optionality, but. for whatever reason, some people don't. find love. It's just an interesting. observation because in all other parts. of the brain, you have to like. Do you mean romantic love? Romantic love, yeah. But but you know, there's all sorts of. different kinds of love. Deep. friendship, um, it's actually what I was. going to say is that, um, they tried to look at the difference.

between romantic love and maternal love. or paternal love. And it turns out that. long-term relationships, like. romantic relationships of marriages that. last for many years, start out, of. course, in this romantic phase. But it. turns into more of a maternal, paternal, um, pattern. when you go farther and farther along. That that is a win. That is not. something wrong with your brain. Um, I.

think love does evolve over time, and. there's many different kinds of love. beyond the romantic Hollywood. you know, uh, and Disney kind of, uh, uh, form of love. So, you can see the honeymoon phase in. the brain. Yes. And then you can see the more. mature love, I guess. Yes. In the brain. Interesting. Oh, the I guess the the opposite of love. I guess might be hate, but I think when. another sort of thing that people might.

think of is. the opposite of love would be rejection. or heartbreak. And through all of our. lives, we encounter heartbreak in many. forms. We encounter romantic heartbreak, but also other forms of heartbreak. As I. read through your story, I I I I could. see moments in your story where. you encountered various types of. heartbreak. Yes. Grief. Yeah. You talked about your father passing. away from. Alzheimer's. Yes. Well, he had a heart attack. He had. Alzheimer's dementia when he passed. away. He he died of a heart attack.

And just 3 months after your dad's. death, your younger brother died of an. unexpected heart attack age 50. Yes. And you say in your book Good Anxiety in. chapter 4, you say the death was. unfathomable. Yeah. As someone who studied the brain and. therefore has a really strong. understanding of the physiology. of the human mind and has also. written a book about anxiety, so you. have this sort of sort of two-pronged. approach towards understanding feelings. and emotions. Yeah.

In those moments, what did you come to understand about. the nature of emotion, the most intense. emotions, and how how they captivate us. and how we can find our path through the. jungle? Yeah, I like that word that I used. It. was unfathomable. Um um. both of those losses at at the same. time, it was hard to process. And I. remember the waves of grief that would. come over. It wasn't constant. It was.

like it it would it would it would be. like waves. So I I have one and then it. would recede and I felt a little bit. better. But then unexpectedly it would. come come again. And um. I'd never. thank goodness experienced that before. And um it was in the middle of writing. the book Good Anxiety and I I put it. aside uh cuz I couldn't write when I was. going through this this terrible grief. and and I had to do something that I'd. never ever had to do and actually was my.

biggest fear. Um unnamed biggest fear in. my life was um. to have to give a eulogy. I I. have a fear of. uncontrollable crying in public and I'd. always been afraid of of eulogies and. well, I never had to. give a eulogy and I had to give this. eulogy for my for my brother. Um, another unfathomable how could that. be happening?

And um, I I got I got through that and um, I learned something in the process and I. remember. working out to try and make myself feel. feel better during this time and um, the. instructor said. about the workout with great pain. comes great wisdom. And I just glommed on to that. that message.

cuz I was feeling great pain. What was. the wisdom? Like, I need to find some. wisdom. What what is that wisdom? And I realized. cuz I just say something at this eulogy. that the wisdom was that on the other. side of that unfathomable grief that I. was feeling the only reason why I was. feeling that unfathomable grief is. because of the deep love that I had that. it started with. So, if I didn't love them as much, I.

wouldn't have as deep a grief. So, in. fact. the grief and the the the depth of it. was a sign. of the love that I had for them. And that. that was the wisdom that I found and. that was the solace that I found and. that was a message that I gave. in. that eulogy. And um, and then I became obsessed with. the flip side of these.

awful emotions that we all go through. Grief is this one. Because I had to go back and finish this. book, Good Anxiety. I was like, "I'm. going to do that.". The book was transformed by that event. because I realized that if I could find. the wisdom and the. the power. um. of the most horrible emotion, I'm going. to say, grief. What is the flip side of anxiety? What is the gift? What is the superpower.

that comes from anxiety? And I needed to. find gifts and superpowers. And that's why the book got written in. that way. And I I name superpowers that. come from anxiety. That was That was. heightened after after this terrible. event. But I found them and I use them all the. time. It was therapeutic, actually. How did it change you, the loss of your. brother and your father in such a short. period of time? How are you a different.

person because of. those two events? You realize that. everybody's going to. feel these emotions sometime in their. life. And. I can. bring more empathy and compassion. to those experience for others. And I I remember I I never wanted to. talk to people. that had a loss. I never knew what to. say. I knew I was going to say something.

wrong. I just had no idea. I felt lost. And um. and it is I do feel wiser. I feel like I. have more. empathy. I have more knowledge. Can I ask you a question? If If If there. was a pill. Yeah. that you could take. to. not feel the grief. In the moment when you were. in the throes of that grief, would you.

have taken it? And. in hindsight now, Mhm. would you have taken it? I look I I know. I'm not a. pill taker. I. I wasn't clinically. I didn't feel like I'm oh, I can't, you. know, go about my life. It it it it was. it was a terrible emotion, but I I. didn't feel completely debilitated with. it. Other other people do. Maybe they. would take the pill. I would not take. the pill. And after.

the lessons that I learned from going. through those emotions, absolutely, I. would not take the pill. And and that. was part of the lesson of writing this. book, that anxiety. is critical for us, because anxiety and. sadness and and anger. are critical. to help us appreciate those joyous. moments if of our lives. If we had no.

grief, no sadness, no anger ever, then every day would, you know, it would. just be mundane. But it gives that. value. I mean, our highest highs are. extra high because we know those lows. And and that also is probably how this. grief that I experienced affects me. I I. appreciate I appreciate that the good. times even more. As a neuroscientist who understands the. brain and the systems and then sort of.

neural pathways and all this stuff and. how we think and. does that leave much room for. spirituality. and. those kinds of things? Are you. spiritual? I am. And what does what You know, cuz when. some people think about spirituality, they think. it they think it's the opposite of. neuroscience. They think Yes. If I spoke to some. people, some people that I know, they. think of. that the decisions and the feelings and. the energies are outside of our body, not going on in this ball of tofu.

Mhm. And then some like hardcore. people, scientists, will ex- will. explain all of our experience through. this ball of tofu. Yes. Where do you sit? So, um I've evolved over time. So, um. when I was a young scientist, I no spirituality, no religion, everything can be described by science. Like I have to prove it. Prove it to me. I want to, you know, see the data. I happily went through um.

that phase for many, many years of my. life until I realized or I didn't even. realize. I think I needed something more in in my. life. And and then I realized. first it was a need. There was a Then. there was a realization, well, can I really prove that. the only thing that is true is that what. I. what I can prove. What if there are things beyond.

um proving in the. in the scientific method. And I think there are things that uh in. the spiritual realm, in the religious. realm, um. that. absolutely could be true. Could be true. Could be true. That. cannot be solved, cannot be proven with. the classic scientific method. Things that you believe? Yes. What makes you believe them? Cuz on one hand you said you kind of.

want to. Mhm. Which is an element of that. Yeah. But as a I'm interested as a scientist, as a neuroscientist, Yeah. you must have been trained to be able to. explain. That's how you pass the exams. You get You must be able to explain why. you have these beliefs. Do you In that part of your life, do you. just kind of say. I've ex- I felt it. Is that the. No. It's uh Oh, well, part of it, yes. I. I I do feel it. But it was the. realization that the scientific method.

in my opinion is not the end-all and. be-all that I thought it was when I was. a young scientist. Can you prove that. these other realms don't exist? And if they exist in ways that cannot be. proved in in a scientific method, well, maybe your scientific method is wrong. Is that Is that a possibility? Have you had an experience that made you. believe in another realm? Have I had an experience? Um. I have. in my academic way.

I have studied. texts that are. the oldest texts that we know, uh the Bible, and I was raised in a. actually was a half Christian, half. Buddhist um family. And uh. but. my my. my core belief was. Christianity. And so, yeah, I I I I go.

to church. I I really appreciate the. power. um that. that religious beliefs bring. to my life. It actually really decreases. my anxiety. And that's not the only reason why I did. I just I wasn't look searching for an. anti-anxiety kind of um. uh solution. But I was. looking for.

maybe something more than. the scientific method in my life. We're going in one direction as a. society, like more Yeah, I told you I'm. basically addicted to my phone. Screens, loneliness. Yeah. Um less connection, less friends, less. people we can turn to in a time of. crisis according to all the studies. And as we go further and further down. that road, I think it's making it more. obvious of. what's at the end of the other end of. the street.

Yeah. And it's robbing us of something at a. really deep level that I think I'm. noticing more and more as I grow older. I think that's actually why I want to. have kids now because I think I'm in. search of that greater meaning or. purpose in my life beyond just like. making more money or just, you know, all the superficial stuff. Yeah. You You said to me before we started. speaking that you're thinking a lot. about community. I am. Why? Because I think it is a balm. to students and to everybody. And um I. think those those events that we can.

create that bring people together and. talking to each other and learning about. each other are joyous events. And um I. see it in the in. in me and in uh the students that come. to these events. It is clear that that. is um something that that is a little. bit unfamiliar to students right now, but um has immediate effect. What is the one thing we haven't spoke. about regarding. Betty, the brain over there in the. corner, but the brain in front of you. The most important thing about the brain.

that we didn't discuss. You know, you only have one. And um. we have an opportunity every single day. to make it. as healthy as it could be. I my I watched my father pass away with. Alzheimer's dementia. And um um. we have elderly people in my family as. well. And.

it motivates me even more to to keep my. brain healthy, to make as many friends as I can, to. have as many connections as I can. Uh. cuz I want to be as happy as I can be. for the rest of my life and I want to. have. and I want to have a big fat fluffy. brain. So you only have one and. there are things you can do right now. today. to make it stronger.

Wendy. Thank you so much. Thank you for. the way that you deliver I think is so. deep rooted in a really undeniable. passion and you you're on a real mission. to make other people live better lives. and I think that's something that. deserves to be. highly commended. It's it's so apparent. in everything you do that you're so. focused on helping others in a way that. I don't always see um. and that comes from like you know. reading through your story I can see the. pivotal moments throughout your story. that sent you on that mission and I do.

describe it as a mission. These two. books are fantastic. You wrote the book. in 2000 that we published in 2015 called. Healthy Brain Happy Life and then your. second book which came out in America. called Good Anxiety which is a. phenomenal book that really helps to. refrain how we think about anxiety. I. think that reframing helps us experience. it differently but also shall I say dare. I say. be grateful for the signal the lessons. that it's there to teach us the wisdom. that it gives us. We have a closing tradition on this. podcast where the last guest leaves a. question for the next guest not knowing. who they're leaving it for.

Mhm. Question left for you is in this book. Oh. What do you think is the best quality of. humanity? Ooh. Compassion. And what does that mean? Compassion means. feeling.

feeling for the. um. um the experience of others both good. and bad. so I can experience your joy. compassionately and I could experience. your grief compassionately. I think that. is because I've been thinking so much. about connection and community. that um. function of uh or emotion of compassion. is uh really top of mind for me. Wendy, thank you. Thank you.