Soho House Founder: How I Built The World’s Most Exclusive Club: Nick Jones | E163

i wasn't experienced enough i was too. young you're just branded thick. nick jones the founder and ceo of soho. house with an empire of private clubs. around the world it's the most see and. be seen type of place not everyone gets. it. your upbringing is particularly. compelling to me because you were. somewhat counted out i'm hugely dyslexic. people didn't understand that you were. just branded thick. wow there was not much choice for me. you've created a business which brings a. lot of people joy that first soho house.

on greek street why did it work. i wanted to prove that hospitality could. be done differently i can't think of a. time when i was thinking about making an. aspirational brand i've always been. obsessed about the member and that was. always my number one thing they've. created that. if you don't make mistakes you're not. pushing yourself you're not taking. yourself out of your comfort zone maybe. i was trying to prove to my family that. i i could do this and i think that's an. invaluable lesson. at what point does that desire to prove.

something need to be contained because. it might come at the expense of like. life balance. um. a very good question and i think. so without further ado i'm stephen. bartlett and this is the diary of a ceo. i hope nobody's listening but if you are. then please keep this to yourself. [Music]. nick.

thank you for being here um i have to. say i'm a big fan of the the business. you've created and the i know you don't. like the word but the brand you've built. um for many many reasons that i'm. excited to get into maybe because i'm a. marketeer but maybe also just because. i'm a customer someone and someone that. loves the the soho house um brand but. where i wanted to start with you is. where i always start and your your um. your sort of origin story your. upbringing is particularly compelling to. me because. um. by many accounts.

even your own you were somewhat counted. out. is that true. well my childhood was. i don't think i'd say i was counted out. i was. you know. in a nice middle class family where i. had two older brothers and a sister. younger sister mum and dad. but. my two older brothers um were you know. they were the sort of stars they were. they were great at school they were good. at sport and i was a bit not so good at.

sport and not so good at school and. it was a sort of different sort of um. sort of childhood that. i suppose that they had and um. yeah i think it probably put me in good. stead but at the time it was probably. quite tricky when you say not so good at. school what do you mean specifically. we're just really bad at exams yeah i'm. i'm hugely dyslexic and um so i find. spelling really difficult i find. pronunciation difficult i find.

um. you know all sorts of things difficult. at school i mean i've since learned that. dyslexia is the greatest thing to have. and but at school it isn't but i was. lucky enough. that my mum was all over it and it was. discovered that i was dyslexic at the. age of 12 which is very young for a lot. of people are still discovering. you know contemporaries of mine are. still discovering a dyslexic right now. in. the age i am which is 58. so.

i. i was i was lucky and i got support and. i. sort of got through school by. weird things like they they'd give you. extra hours on your exam. but i didn't need that i i i only needed. half the amount of time anyway to fill. up the paper because i didn't have. enough information so. so to get another hour was just another. hour just fiddling around with your. pencil so. um yeah the perception towards dyslexia.

today is. is it's quite a common thing and people. understand it a bit better but back then. i'm assuming people didn't really. understand what it was or there was a. stick was there more of a stigma yeah i. think so you're just branded thick. and you know because if you couldn't. read or you couldn't um write proper i. mean my handwriting is. still very not i try and avoid. handwriting of every possibility so it's. still. um really bad and i've i think yes.

people because people didn't understand. it there but people understand it now. and people talk about it and. they should talk about it and it's. to me it's you know if you have dyslexia. you look at things very differently. because you have to look at things. differently. you have to simplify things and. by simplifying things i think that gives. you. a different perspective on things when i. say counter that i mean more in the. sense of um you didn't believe that you. would be a success when you were older.

because of the. because especially when you're at that. young age you assume that those that are. getting the the best grades and spell. the best and do math the best are going. to be rich and successful and then. there's us as everyone else. so at that young age you didn't see you. didn't envisage you would be a. quote-unquote success. i it didn't i didn't think either way i. was just sort of thinking of just. getting through school and and and i. wasn't really planning that if i was. going to be a success or not a success. and. i i think that's a interesting.

um. how you define success um and i don't. think success is just been successful. you know running a business or creating. a business i think it's it touches all. sorts of things. was there um. when i was reading about your parents. dinner parties that seemed to be the. first. inspiration for what you would later do. in hospitality and restaurants and. creating experiences for others was that. the first sort of spark of inspiration. for you yeah um i i i was.

while my brothers were on the sports. field i. weirdly like doing the supermarket shop. i with my mum you know i found. supermarkets fascinating i found food. fascinating i then found the whole. preparation of how to give people a good. time. you know fascinating and. you know i loved watching. how you how you could create an. environment where people had a laugh and. fun. and was that what your parents were. doing well yeah they i'm not all the. time i mean occasionally they did it but.

um. but when they did do it it was you know. i'd love to be. part of them trying to create a fun. evening and i think that's probably. where i suddenly realized that you know. hospitality was the route for me um. because i you know we're going back a. long long time um you know this was you. know i'm 58 now and i was sort of 13 at. the time and. and i was i used to. you know go to the local sports club and. work behind the bar you know as i would.

clean the glasses and weirdly i enjoyed. that i enjoyed the interaction with. people i enjoyed seeing people just have. a have a nice time and and back then. people were not going into hospitality i. mean it was really at the bottom of a. ladder of of industries that people went. into so. i thought that was an opportunity. it's funny because i've sat here with. them jimmy carr and lots of comedians. and when i hear about their sort of ins. and inspiration for becoming a comedian. it tends to root back to them being.

younger and it being the thing that they. would see create the most joy in their. home. so. in the case of jimmy carr and russell. and russell howard and a few of the. other comedians i've sat with they tell. me the story about like the thing that. would make my parents the happiest was. when i would tell jokes so that was this. sort of psychological reinforcement that. led me to be a joke teller for the rest. of my life and when i was reading about. those those dinner parties that your. parents had i was i was and also. confounded by the fact that you you know. you said in your own words um you didn't. feel like there was a lot of. conventional opera um avenues available.

to you because of your dyslexia. that that was the. the combination of factors that caused. you to. well and and i really had to i mean when. i was at school i because i wasn't good. at getting exams i had to rule. university out i had to. there was there was not much choice for. me you know there was a person with very. few o levels as as they were called then. and i think i got an e in a level and i. scraped through on economics i think and.

you know with that there there was. there was really. not a lot of choice and you know my. careers master at school sort of said i. think it's catering nick you know so. when my when my chris master said that. i've i i sort of thought and also the. fact that i thought there was real. opportunity in this and. my my dad owned a small um insurance. broking company and. my brothers went into work there and. i think my dad was keen for me to go and.

work there but i i didn't find insurance. very exciting. i still don't. and i didn't find. that world of working in the city and. insurance and being an insurance broker. interesting at all so. i i did have that as an opportunity but. i. really felt i wanted to try hospitality. and catering as you as you started your. journey into hospitality and catering. did you start to at any point figure out. that you were you had some kind of area.

of brilliance there was something you. were good at compared to others no i. remember clearly the first no i did the. answer to that was is definitely no um i. my my my first day i i worked for trust. house forte i was a management trainee. and it was a five-year course and i i. applied to the savoy management um. training course to start with and. they. i i remember it to this day the. interview i had um and i just froze i.

couldn't speak i was so nervous i i. absolutely froze and because i was a. pretty shy kid and. you know i i was shy at 17 when i was. going through these interviews and i. just was it i just got stage fright i. just couldn't my mouth no words came out. of my mouth. and i didn't get into the savoy. management course but then i applied for. trust house forte and luckily when i. went for the interview i was able to.

talk and i got onto a. a five-year course and my. first part of the course was a year in. the kitchens and it was at st george's. hotel in langham place which is just. here in london. off oxford street and. i arrived and the chef looked me up and. down. and he he he he he called me a nickname. which i'm not gonna say. it began with a c and and um he threw a.

sack of potatoes at me which landed in. my belly and he said peel them and so i. went off to the viera where you peeled. the potatoes and i hadn't really ever. used a knife before and the first one. the first potato i cut my my my my. finger and i thought oh god how do i. hide the high disk and the water i was. putting the potatoes in was getting. redder and redder and redder and i and i. thought oh no this is my first day and. the nickname. stuck and i. i was really sort of learning on the job.

which i think is a really great way to. learn anything and i kept making. mistakes but i ca i was determined to to. sort of fit in to the kitchen because it. was an environment you know because i. came from this sort of cotton wool. um middle class background and then. going into the kitchen into the early. 80s where where you know if. they it was long hours and and and they. they you know someone who comes in with. a slightly posh accent and you know they. very very very very it was it but it was.

a it was a good moment it was a good. moment for me. was it um. what was it about that. sounds pretty horrific sound and i've. having worked in the kitchen my mum had. a restaurant at a very young age i. started working there at seven super. high stressful people always complaining. it's hot in there. um that and i mean people weren't. throwing things at me and calling me the. c word but it wasn't it was really. unpleasant so i'm wondering what in that. context like. despite of all of that tickled your. fancy do you know what it was it was.

i was coming out my shyness i was. learning how to get on with people and. you know i was i went to a private. school i was surrounded by people who. went to private school which is seven. percent of the population and. by going into the the the the um kitchen. you you really learnt to really get on. with everyone and. and i think that's an invaluable lesson. and i. really became friendly with a lot of the.

chefs and would go out with them at. night and. i just enjoyed it and even though it was. hard i just enjoyed the environment i. enjoyed creating food i enjoyed the buzz. i enjoyed i didn't mind the heat i. didn't mind the fact that it was it was. it was long hours i just enjoyed it if i. had spoken to maybe your colleague or. someone that was maybe above you in a. line manager at that time and said what. isn't it good at what would they have. said to me. i i'd like to think. um not peeling potatoes or making.

porridge but. you know getting on with people and. being part of a team and and getting. stuck in. you said earlier that dyslexia was um. is actually a great gift. can you explain why um why you've now. come to believe that that is a real sort. of superpower for you. well. i i i wouldn't say it's a superpower but. i i i talk a lot about dyslexic because. i really want people to feel that if. they have if they get the tests and.

they're dyslexic i don't want them to. ever feel bad i want them to feel good. and go well this is a huge opportunity. because i think when you look at things. differently and the reason one thing. being dyslexic i have to simplify. everything all the time i have to i have. to i want something on one sheet of. paper i don't want it on four sheets of. paper i want i i want everything to be. scaled down and simplified and i think. we live in a world where everyone's over. complicating things always and and you.

know and it doesn't matter what area of. the business i work in now whether it's. the designers or the chefs or tech. people you know. it's all over complicated and i spend a. lot of my time just editing down and and. and simplifying it and i think dyslexic. being dyslexic has made me do that you. know because it's the easy route because. complication panics me and confuses me. so i spend a lot of time simplifying and. i think when you do simplify things. people understand it they get it.

they like it. yeah so true someone once said to me. that phrase i always forget which is um. if. someone's ability to simplify something. also correlates their ability to truly. understand it and typically when you. meet these like salesmen. that are um trying to blag you in some. way they purposefully overcomplicate. something and sometimes they don't. actually understand what they're saying. but distilling it to simplicity gets it. closer to truth and it's it's also a. sign that the person communicating it. really truly understands the essence of. the idea or the concept.

you by 22 you started your own. restaurant chain. well correct i went around lots of. departments within trust house 48 from. front desk to bar to. to. to housekeeping i was a housekeeper at. the you know clean the rooms at the. westbury hotel in conduit street. i i was a barman at brown's hotel in. albemarle street um. and yeah i remember clearly um you know.

serving being the barman and i remember. making cocktails for george bess that. was that was a highlight of he was such. a nice guy and. and and i suppose at that time i always. thought the determination was to open. something to to open my own restaurant. this is you know i want to learn this. and then i ended up doing marketing at. trust house forte and then i was. marketing manager at grover the house in. in part lane and it wasn't because i was. brilliant at it it was you know i was. cheap you know.

i just was i was i didn't just cost a. lot of money and they could that's what. they were looking for at that precise. moment and but i always when i was. working there i was always working on a. plan to to. you know not work for trust house forte. which was a big. big hotel company and i was thinking you. know i want to get out of this at some. stage i don't want to keep going on the. ladder when you know you keep getting. put you hopefully i would have kept. being promoted into other jobs but and. then it would have been too difficult to.

leave so i want to go when i'm still. relatively at the bottom and then i i. went and tried working in fast food. restaurants or sort of. casual restaurants so i went to work to. maxwell's and covent garden as a night. manager i then i then went. to work at pasta mania as a sort of. junior manager and then during that time. i was building my plan to open my first. restaurant which was called over the top. and that opened in. 1988 and it was. you know.

it was i was too young i wasn't. experienced enough um. it was it was terrible. the design which is something i'm. obsessed with now and i love design you. know and i that was my first design. outing and it really was. terrible um the food was you know really. bad you know my friends had to come. you know and that that showed. i really knew who my friends were. because they would come and support me.

in the restaurant but it was uh it was. it was it was it was a a good experience. of getting something really wrong. it's not cheap to open a restaurant how. did you how did you fund that well i i. my my dad put a bit of money in family. friends put a bit of money in and i got. the bank to put some money in um so i. was lucky you know i was given that. chance to be able to open my first. restaurant um. and it's something you know you know we. we do a lot now i i love people.

doing that when anyone comes to me and. wants to be an entrepreneur and start. something up i really make time to. steven and help them and you know i was. lucky i was given an opportunity um. and. yeah i learned a lot. that i guess. would increase the pressure if you've. got family betting on you. yeah i i think. i never they never made me feel like. that um you know my dad. you know um.

i think he was proud that i was trying. to do something i was trying to do. something on my own because he had his. own small business. um but he never made me feel like that. and the other shareholders you know i. think in their head they. when they first came and tried the. restaurant they sort of probably knew. that it wasn't gonna lead anywhere but. actually you know. the the company is still the same. company as it is today it's a it never. went it never it never went bust we we. we we we hang on in there and um.

you know eventually open cafe om in 92. um with which was really all the. experience of getting over top so wrong. and let me explain what over top was it. was it was. it you either chose a burger a piece of. chicken a bit lamb or a steak and over. the top of it you could choose one of 10. sauces. the sources were terrible and and and it. was just. it was just. bad. and um.

you know uh it it it just sort of taught. me. you know how to manage a business with. little cash and with no cash. how to pay the staff every week how to. use initiatives to try and get more. customers in and i think it taught me. at a very early age you know marketing. restaurants is not the way to solve a. restaurant you just have to make the. restaurant. good because the customer is so clever. they know what good is and they know.

what bad is and it taught me that very. early on there was no way that you could. you don't you can't fool a customer they. they they they know and you could walk. into over top and you could sort of feel. you know you could sense that it wasn't. wasn't wasn't wasn't good enough but. what i learned at that time was. it it's. sort of. it. i didn't feel it was a failure i just. thought it was i was on a a journey of. learning and i.

really. even now encourage all our people that. making a mistake is not a problem you. know if you don't make mistakes you're. not pushing yourself you're not trying. you're not you're not you're not taking. yourself out of your comfort zone and. so. you know i really encourage people to. think that you know. failure is not what it sounds like you. know it's okay it's just part of the. journey. what did what did that process teach you. about feedback i asked that because in. my first business i was i had this was a. tech business and i was very romantic.

about this hypothesis about the way that. i thought my customers would behave and. about the solution that i thought that. they would care about and i spent too. long not listening to their feedback and. ultimately that. was pretty fatal and i just wish earlier. i'd been less romantic and. stubborn almost about what i thought the. customer would want and and listen but. i'm wondering what that first failure. taught you about the importance of what. feedback you listen to and how you. listen to it well i think feedback's key. um. and.

people being honest. it's funny being been a brit people are. funny about complaining aren't they. they're. in restaurants they. they think it will offend you they they. think well i'm not gonna i can't. complain to nick about i had a bad meal. last night because he he might be your. man might upset him but to me. you know you can only get better by. getting really honest feedback and. i'm lucky now because i have members who. all have my email address and and and. you know. they if they're not happy they they. email me so i think listening to.

feedback is super super important did. you listen to it and over the top. well i could just see it because there. wasn't many people to give feedback to. [Laughter]. i wish there was more customers in there. giving me feedback um but you you know. people did give feedback and and but i. didn't have the tools to be able to get. it better i didn't know you know you saw. i started going down a. sort of yeah. because. we kept running out of money so you know.

you kept cutting cutting the. you know the team down so it just wasn't. you know. at the end it was just. me in the kitchen serving and. we even set up a delivery service to try. and try and try and um. uh. boost our sales but that didn't work. i was so um really inspired by you. saying that the customer is smart. and also you alluded to the fact that. the best marketing is word of mouth. yeah absolutely.

that that really is at the heart of what. you even do today is is i believe in the. customers yeah i i'm. very lucky that we have fantastic. members who. are loyal and. and. you know they they you know i i if. anyone says that we've done okay or i've. done okay it's for thanks to our members. and. um you know our members of the people. who pushed me from. doing so house you know the originals.

our house on greek street where yeah it. worked there were hairy moments you know. when i thought it really wasn't going to. work um and you know it would go quiet. or it would go you know i remember the. first year we opened in in may suddenly. conquered we'd opened in january i. thought oh god that i thought it would. last a bit longer than this and you know. member turned around to me and said well. we're all down at the cam film festival. you know that's where your members are.

so i suddenly thought well next year. i'm going to go down and create a pop-up. down there and this was. pre-pop-ups you know this was in 96 and. so we rented a boat um. in the harbour. and. i remember. in fact i remember clearly because there. was there was a lady who still works for. us to this day veronique and. her and i had to fill up this lorry full. of stuff in london to drive down to i. didn't drive the lorry because i.

couldn't drive a lawyer but to go down. to the south of france can and we opened. this boat and it was like a temporary. club for the ten days of the cam film. festival and members. you know if they weren't in london they. could come to the club in in the. the boat in the harbour and that. we did that for. lots of years and it was i think our. members really enjoyed that and that. sort of taught me again. where wherever the member was going go. so you know because if i hadn't you know. i was. i didn't understand the film business or.

the media business i was in. catering hospitality so i i was i was. sort of new to this and. you know when i first first created the. first ever committee at sarah house you. know i was really knocking on doors and. and phoning people cold calling then. saying do you mind and and you had to. sort of explain what you were trying to. do to get them to come on the committee. and that was where our first 500 members. came from and. and i think there i've always just. listened to the member you know they.

they kept saying wouldn't it it's great. this one why didn't you do one in the. country and i go oh let's do one in the. country then so off i go i phone saviles. up and i say any any hotels for sale i. didn't have any money but i thought well. i'm going to go on that route and see. how i could i could um. get get get somewhere in the country and. i. remember stumbling across babington. house and. and i remember it was it was on the.

market for um. you know a million million and a half. pounds um this was back in yeah a long. time ago and. and um. i remember driving up the drive and as. soon as you have drive out the drive at. babington you sort of fall in love of a. place and i fell in love with a place. and i thought oh my god how how how am i. gonna get planning permission to turn. this into a hotel and how am i going to. have enough money to buy it. i had. just a small amount of money just to put. the deposit down.

and. luckily. the people who were selling it. um. they. they um they said well we want to stay. here for the summer we you know we want. to we want to exchange and then we will. complete in nine months time i thought. yes. you know and then it gave me nine months. um. um to um. to find the money and get the planning. permission and raise the money with our. members to to. pay for the completion.

and also to pay for the refurbishment. and. i i sort of just remember even before we. exchanged. the agent phoned me up and said you know. um a higher off has gone in so i was. sort of being gazumped and i thought. well i don't have the money anyway so i. can put another couple hundred grand on. it because. and so i i increased my offer i i got. babington house and. um.

you know i was able to raise the money. we and we raised the money through our. members you know. lots of members put sort of. five grand in. um and that's how i was able to get the. money to open babington house so it was. a it was a. led by our members sort of. verb the members helped invest in it you. know they luckily have all got their. money back plus plus and. um. you know then that was the second. thing we opened that first sega house on.

greek street. why did it work. you know i was. running the restaurant downstairs cafe. bowen that was my survival cafe bowen. was you know it was the same company as. over the top it was it was it was me. doing everything totally different to. what over the top was so the food was. edible and nice. the service was good the atmosphere you. know and if i was in there last night. and it was you know it made me very. happy because it was packed and it was.

fun and. when the building came up. available above cafe berm which is on. greek street in london. i. the landlord pulled me up um. and they said well do you fancy taking. the space above. and i go well what on earth for you know. there was no plan to do a private. members club my plan was. just to survive and make cafe bowen work. after. four years of attempting over the top.

and i still do this today i always look. at everything i when people phone me and. say there's an idea i was gonna have a. look and so i said okay well go and have. a look so i wandered around the offices. and it was a small door you know um. on on greek street forty creek street. and. and i thought hmm. and i hadn't been to a private members. club you know i wasn't i wasn't part of. a groucho club i wasn't i wasn't i. wasn't part of that. that that was only the groucho club all. there were all those clubs down in palm.

oil i wasn't part of that maybe that's a. good thing yes and i and i i looked. random oh god this is like a home away. from home and and. and. you know god this is this could work how. could i. you know this this this is an idea but i. didn't have any money. so um again and um. i went to see um. my landlord which is paul raymond um and. i went to see him and he said well you. do want to take it i said well yeah i'd. love to take it but what would you.

invest because. the family investment and. from over the top they had had totally. enough explain they. they were out you know the banks were. trying to pull out of you know trying to. get their loan back it was. that bit of it was. you know just. it was it was it was that bit of the. family help was done finished. and. so. i thought. well how am i going to raise the money.

for this because it's going to be. separate i'm going to have to do this. separately to what cafe bow m is. and so i went to see paul raymond he. said i'm not investing i didn't invest. in other people's businesses and then it. was when i was leaving he said well what. happens if i. put the money in but just added it to. your rent so you ended up with a higher. rent you know a percentage of. the money he put in. was added to my rent and. i thought well to do the fit out to do. fit. um i thought okay well that sounds like.

it can work so i set up sewer house it. was it was simple to come up with a name. it was a house in soho the logo was. pretty simple it was just actually it. was it was so simple it was free. buildings three floors. um. and. and. i and but i owned a hundred percent of. it. because. the cafe bowman a lot you know my my. family didn't want anything to do with. it and and the other investors and i. thought well you know when so house. works i'm going to transfer everything.

back to the you know the same. percentages as it was as. when it was over the top so i merged the. two companies so. i didn't want um. i didn't want to be a success on one. hand in on on soho and and they were. suffering on cafe bowm and over top so. we merged it all together and. and we. found the members and and and. you know a lot of the people. who opened sewer house in 95.

still are part of sower house to work um. you know. a guy. pierre who was a server in. in in um. the blue dining room the the blue room. in the in the restaurant now runs north. america for us and. um. marcus anderson who. it runs our membership part of our. membership team who was a server in one. of the dining rooms so. the guy marcus barwell was a barman in. the circle bar now he's managing.

director of south house design so. it's lovely seeing you know people who. are right there at the beginning still. be part of a company now and. it. it but it was. it was a journey as well it was we were. moving into this new area of membership. understanding membership understanding. looking after people and and just. listening to your members because i'm. sort of going back to your original sort. of feedback question so the feedback and. which comes from our members has sort of.

really helped us where we are today was. cafe bowen successful when you embarked. on the house journey upstairs. yes. but it was having to be on top of the. disaster of sower house so it was a. quite a lot of there was a lot of sort. of um it was the same company and and so. yes it worked cafe berm worked it gave. me. the confidence to do something else it. it worked because. um.

it. it you know it was 30 years ago so and. there weren't many places i don't think. there were many places which. were open to eight in the morning and. closed at three in the morning and you. could go in there and eat whatever you. wanted or just have a coffee or just. have a drink. the kitchen was always open you could. you know drink chunks of beer or you. could have a steak freak or. and we had jazz in the afternoons it was.

really. creating it it sort of really created a. real regular following within soho and. it was. the turning point really of the disaster. of overdue. i had a few words to say about one of my. sponsors on this podcast for many years. people have been asking for a. coffee flavoured huel and quite recently. he'll release the iced coffee caramel. flavor of their um ready to drink heels. and i've just become hooked on it over. the last couple of weeks i've been on a. really interesting journey with huel.

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as well is amazing and obviously as i. said the iced coffee caramel flavor has. been a real smash here so check it out. let me know what you think on social. media i see all of your tags and. instagram posts and tweets about huel. back to the podcast so when you look. back then on that so house a lot of. people i'm sure started very similar. style businesses around the time i'm. trying to figure out why sir house went. on to become what it is today what were. the the factors that. in your view you talked about customer. feedback shaping everything but well i.

would i would give that accolade to our. members. i would i would say it was the members. who pushed me. and and. yeah when they when we opened in new. york you know. because we i think we'd open the. electorate house with we're about three. then and and someone said well you. should open in new york i'd love this. i'll have a oh yes maybe so. off i go to new york and and and. determined to open a sewer house in new.

york first of all look in the re. district of soho. and. couldn't find something going came close. it was difficult learning permitting it. was it was just. difficult and. i remember. we found the warehouse it was an old. electrical warehouse and meat packing. and meat packing. was a very different place to what it is. now. um. it was run down it was you know it was. it was full of sort of.

it was full of. really interesting life and and. i remember we found this this this. this warehouse and i thought okay i'm. gonna get get the warehouse and again we. had to raise money to do it so. it was a question of. trying to um how do you get raise money. in new york because we we you know. it was it was a bad time in the uk it. was so i think it might have been a. recession going on so the banks were.

you're not gonna we're not lending you. money in new york so i thought okay well. i gotta start raising money again from. our members and from people in new york. to put money into the seller house in. new york. and. um i i. it was everything was nerve-wracking you. know. the week. i was flying out there to try and get. the permit to. be able to allow to open a club in the. in a warehouse. was 9 11. so i arrived on. i think it was a monday evening.

and i was nervous because i it was this. big. big meeting on the thursday where in in. front of a local community board to see. whether we'd get permission to be able. to. open up a club and have a license in. this premises. and i was having breakfast. um. on the tuesday morning then the 9 11. um. and i was having a bold egg i remember. it and as i was hitting my boiled egg i. heard this big bang.

and i thought what is that so i ran out. on the street and i looked up and i. could see. one of the twin towers with. smoke coming out of it and. i asked um. there's a guy sweeping the street and i. said what happened he said well a plane. went into the side of it and i said well. was it just a. what did it look was it he said it was. an airliner it was so it wasn't like a. private plane. and i thought oh my god so the first.

thing i did was phone kirsty my wife um. because she was. in new zealand she was a news presenter. on itn and i said i think maybe you. should get into work. there's something going on here. and and then and then. i. was still out on the street and i saw. the second plane going you saw it coming. yeah. it was coming in from the. river so you didn't actually see it. coming in but you saw the impact of it. coming in. and. and then. you know. that day was it it made me really fall.

in love with new york. it's sort of the release resistance of. the people. uh. how how they cope with it how they. it was it was it was amazing the people. of new york that day um and that that. week and. and. anyway. weirdly the community board still. happened on the thursday. and i went up and did my presentation i. said i. i don't know why i'm doing this it seems.

irrelevant it seems. not. not. something we should be doing but you. know. you're running a meeting there was a lot. of other. points on the agenda so i was just one. of them and we got our permission um. and. that's how new york started but it was a. big big. sort of. race to find the finance and i was. calling everyone i was i was calling. everyone i did more show rounds of that. that that that warehouse building you.

know running up and down the stairs. showing people around trying to be. enthusiastic. and then you know i was sort of getting. to know people in new york and i put. together this hard hat dinner. um. where. i i don't know how it happened and i. don't know. um. why it happened. but. you know the. really well-known people turned up to. this dinner and we had just had a six. burner on the sixth floor and we cooked.

some chicken and we laid out the table. in the building site on with a white. tablecloth so it was real grit and. glamour. it was it was and and these people just. turned up and. i remember. david bowie been there. and i'm going. and i remember. i was so nervous i was i i i. and i i started talking to. him and he said. this is a great idea can i buy it.

and i said well. there's nothing to buy at the moment but. can you invest in it yes and and so. he was one he was one of the investors. of of of sewer house new york which was. fantastic and and and then. momentum came and we rose raised the. money. everyone. sort of before that was saying a private. members club wouldn't work in new york. you know. people wouldn't pay a membership fee. people. treat restaurants like private members.

clubs and. the velvet rope was the big thing in new. york. um. and i wobbled so often about should we. charge for membership and every uh i was. so nervous opening so i had new york and. i remember the opening party. um and. it was raining and they hadn't. finished putting the roof on. and and. people were staying in the hotel and. there was no water so we had to borrow. the showers at the local gym people had.

to go down to a local gym for hot water. we had water but there was no hot water. and it was just this. roller coaster of an experience opening. in new york where. we didn't quite have enough money. and. you know the team. you know my we were carrying sheep. sheetrock or it's plasterboard over here. and sheet rock over there. up to the floors to try and finish them. putting the ceilings in and. and it was a it was a it was a it was a. journey but then eventually we opened.

and. it worked it so people sort of took to. it. why bother you know like you had a great. business here in london you know things. are going well why why put yourself. through all that pain. um. a very good question and i think. i. could have just carried on doing things. in london but i. there was an ambition in me there was. you know there was this. this thing about being a brit and going.

to new york and trying to take the thing. which i loved in london and see if it. worked in new york and it was. and it. and at points it nearly took the whole. thing down. and. but i. really felt at the time that. if it did bring the whole thing down at. least i tried at least i gave it a go. and i wasn't going to be. sitting in a rocking chair thinking i. didn't give it a go so i think there was. a sort of inner something in me which.

wanted to see and maybe it was sort of. going back to my childhood when my. brothers were so good on the sports. field or or good at school i was trying. to prove a point. because because i sensed that a lot even. when you had this you know successful. cafe for you then to take the risk of. taking upstairs with an unknown idea. just because someone said it's available. and it's that. you know some people are more like the i. don't know they stay within the zone of. comfort and they just harvest but you. have this hunting. sort of predisposition as well even when.

things are going well. so. well. i. there's something inside me um. maybe i was trying to prove to. my brothers my family that i i could do. this and and yeah i. and i do always look at things in a. positive light i do look at things like. you know if i look at a glass of water. i'd say that's half full um not half. empty and. and. and. hospitality i wanted to prove that.

hospitality could be done differently. and i think with. cafe bowen. where we opened it all day and it was. chameleon it just kept changing to the. time of day it was and putting jazz on. in the afternoon and just sort of. making it much more customer focused. where. you would go out. 40 years ago and kitchens would close at. 2pm and you couldn't eat in the. afternoon and. i think that was something i felt i was.

onto something to be able to make it. better for the customer and that sort of. took me back to. when i liked helping my mum and dad when. they had people around for supper and i. loved seeing rooms full of people having. a good time in cafe bowen and i loved. laughter i loved people connecting with. each other i loved people enjoying. themselves and i think i just thought. why didn't i just carry on doing this. at what point does that desire to prove. something need to be.

contained because it might come at the. expense of like life balance. you know this question i've asked myself. a lot it's like. when you are successful in one thing you. have more opportunities to go and do. more things and then you might end up. being pulled so much by your ambition. and your desire to prove a point or your. insecurities that you then end up. compromising all of these other things. like. friendships and the other things that. make life fulfilling yeah and i it's a. it's a balance i've never quite got.

right and. i'm super lucky i have an incredibly. supportive wife kirsty and. she. she sort of. really went on the journey with me and i. know. without her you know i wouldn't be you. wouldn't be asking me on to this podcast. and um. you know so she's been a great support. and my kids. you know were sort of part. of well you know they they had to.

come to work they you know when i was. doing the rounds. on a saturday morning or during weekends. i'd have push chairs and toddlers and. you know they were just part of what was. going on and it had to sort of merge. into. one thing and what i've. successfully done is try and de-merge it. and have you know a when i'm at work i'm. at work and when i'm a family i'm with. family and that but that's taken a long. time so the.

the. the balance is is something i think all. entrepreneurs. suffer. you say it's a balance you've not. got right what was the indicator that. you didn't get it right how did you know. you didn't get it right what was the. symbol i was always knackered. i was always sort of pretending not to. be. i was always. sort of. yeah um. yeah it was. i was internally coping with all the.

pressure where i could but i wasn't. doing that very well. um so. i think it was. sort of. a combination of of of just realizing. that. yeah this was all. consuming it was it was it was really. dragging and and i was very lucky i had. you know great friends who are still my. friends from when i was a kid. and i didn't see them enough and you.

sort of in our business hospitality it. is weekends it's nights it's. days it's. it's it's all the time and when you take. it to a different country then you have. to think well the day's just got longer. and then and and it's got five years you. know go to new york got five hours. longer. and so yes it does take its toll what is. that toll you said about coping with. pressure well i i i think. you know i. i sit here today and i think i'm lucky.

because i think i got. a great. you know i i have great relationship. with my kids i you know it's my favorite. thing it's been with with the family and. been being been with them all together. um so um. but i think at times when you're. trying to prove yourself i'm trying to. prove that i could work in new york and. america i was trying to prove that we. could open sewer houses and other. parts of the world i i think it it it it.

it was hard but. you know you suddenly then do realize. that you have to sort of balance it. was it was there a point in your journey. that was particular so the pressure. becomes so much and you almost feel. within your being whether it's your. health gives out or your your mental. health or you get anxious where you. think this is not. this is not sustainable. i i i never thought it wasn't. sustainable because i'm always such a. positive person but i think.

you know kirsty was great you know she. kept saying you know we don't need any. more this is we don't need another house. the world doesn't need another house. nick you know. the. you know you don't need to be on a plane. all the time what who are you what are. you trying to prove. and. and there was a stage where i was. buzzing around everywhere flying here. flying there and and thinking it it was. all making a big difference but. really and i think the pandemic taught.

me that was the fact that there's better. ways of using your time. and what are those better ways of using. you well you know. instead of buzzing around on a plane all. the time and spending 12 hours in a city. and then going to another city or doing. one night and one you sort of where. you know the teams are clever enough to. put on a bit of a show for that. that period of time so you're not. actually seeing really what's going on. and it was just smarter ways of doing it. and. and and also having a lot more trust in. the senior leadership team and uh.

letting him get on with it and thinking. i didn't have to be everywhere for it to. work and actually often it worked much. better when i wasn't around and. and i mean i. i i you know because they were able to. just get on with it not worry about what. i was thinking all the time. that sounds like great advice for a. younger version of nick at the start of. the house journey what else would you. say um now in hindsight you wish someone. had maybe they said it but you'd wish. you had known.

about how to achieve get to where you. are now or further um. but in a more effective whether that. relates to health or finance way what. what would be that advice you'd give to. that nick starting out on the server. house journey. well i've always been. obsessed about the customer the member. and that was always my number one thing. and the people who work for us so they. they were my two obsessions and. i the advice i think i'd give to. a young young young nick would be.

you know. let them. take more don't think you have to you. know your team you know put it more onto. your team to get on with it and. don't try and do everything yourself and. also. you know there's a there's a point when. you have can prove yourself that you can. these things can work globally and. you know there's a time when. you know you have to. really properly delegate and let other. people get on with it. what are the you know because one of the.

things that server house is known for is. this quote-unquote brand and i know you. don't like that word but this very um. i think i would say it was an. aspirational brand people want to be a. solo house person. how much in intentionality i don't even. know if that's a word has gone into. making that brand. aspirational. i i i can't think of a time where we had. a time where i was thinking about. making an aspirational brand i think it.

that's. and if that's people's perception great. i'm really i'm i'm i'm. that sounds good. and. i. i. all i concentrated on what our members. wanted and. they've created that they have created. the the. [Music]. the fact that. you know there's a desirability to be. part of a house and yes we and we and we. got a brilliant team brilliant.

membership teams globally we got. we got people who really care people who. have been on the journey for a very long. time. and i think. with their help and with every house we. have a determination to make it better. than the last house you know we always. start with a fresh piece of paper we. don't think well you know let's just. keep repeat repeat repeat we go. new new new how can we make it better. what are we going to change to make this. better what are we going to change to.

make it more efficient what are we going. to change to make it better for the. member. and i think. our members really appreciate that and. they see that and they talk about that. and that's probably what's created. what you have just described. what is in hospitality taught you about. life. everything. i. sort of think. you know um it should be the national. service your people should go into a. year in hospitality because. i think. it teaches you so much i mean i spoke.

earlier about. me going into that kitchen and. really learning how to get on with. people and from different backgrounds. different countries different different. everything and. i think it really teaches you you know. to be part of a team and there's a. customer there's. all your. you know people you work with in the. kitchen or the person cleaning the. dishes or a person. you know cleaning the rooms it you all. have to work together to make it happen.

and i think so. it really. takes the shyness out of you and it. gives you an ability to get on with. people which i think is a really useful. tool i think it's better than a. a maths degree i think getting on with. people i think. um. you learn. you know just useful practical things. like making a bed or keeping a place. tidy or clearing a table of plates and. and and when you when you've got a. family gathering or something you can. suddenly clear the plates and.

stack them up or you can. you can you can make a cocktail you know. which is really nice you know you know. that doesn't you don't even if you're. not in hospitality anymore you can still. make a cocktail you can still make a bed. you can still hopefully get on with. people you can still you know clear a. table you you you have to become quite. organized in your mind and i think. hospitality is a very rewarding. industry for that. hospitality is quite a quite a broad. term but at the crux of it what do you. think it is that you're actually selling. to people. what are they buying from you well i.

think. what we want our member to do is. flourish you know we want them to. flourish. socially and we want them to flourish. you know at work and i think creating. memberships and you know that. word community of people who. are so like-minded and and. they all have a creative soul and you. put them in in one house you know.

that. is like. you know. they bump into each other they talk to. each other i've seen businesses created. i've seen relationships created. friendships created ideas created and. and i think when you put people together. in a space and and and. it that is that is pretty special and. to see that happen in different. countries and different cities to see. members sort of really. using the fact that you go into the.

house you can just go into the house on. your own just wander down there and you. know you'll bump into someone you'll. start having a drink with someone or a. cup of coffee with someone or you and. you're sort of you you're in the house. you're part part of that membership and. i and i you know people do it you know a. lot now and you know you can do it. digitally and they use algebra ribbons. and they use all sorts of things and i. think you know being part of cell hats. and you know those 500 members i talked. to you about. earlier you know they're still part of.

us they still pay their membership if. they're still here they're still part of. it they don't give it up. and. and so you on one hand they the original. founder members of 27 28 years ago and. then on the other hand you got you know. huge. under-27 membership going into our. houses huge you know it accounts for. to 23 of our overall membership you know. under 27s and. it's it's. seeing in a room.

you know the most successful script. writer in one corner. and on in another corner there might be. a struggling scriptwriter who's still. trying to write you know their first. script or you know vr a really. well-known artist or an artist who. hasn't sold a new painter who hasn't. sold their first bit of work. and. you know and taking that and and trying. to think well how can the person who's. done it help the person who wants to do. it and.

yeah that's why i'm so passionate about. our mentoring scheme you're where. you know there is so much creativity in. the world and there's so much creativity. you know and and creativity is not owned. by the middle class. it's everywhere and. to. to be able to offer mentoring. to people who are less fortunate who. might not be able to afford a membership. or might not. know. what door to knock to get that. opportunity.

is. sort of one of the favorite things that. we're doing my favorite things i'm doing. at the moment is seeing it happen so. going back to what you were saying about. creating. people in a room who all help each other. they all feel like they're looking out. for each other they all want to help. the person who who's down on their luck. or who is. is. is is is starting out or they want to. help the the. the. you know they want to create an idea.

with another bunch of members and i. think that that that is special and it. goes back to. seeing people in a room having a great. time and and if our members can flourish. in in their lives if so our house can. just make their lives just a little bit. better then i think that's a good thing. are you naturally shy person. i think so. because it's funny because when i i meet. entrepreneurs there's various different. types of entrepreneurs um. once in a while i meet an entrepreneur.

and a founder that's created a really. great business but it's quite i think. the word is unassuming as in they're not. very self-promoting you know you ask. them certain questions about what their. brilliance is for example and. they they don't necessarily point at. themselves they tend to defer it to. others so it just made me it's it's it's. curious because it's kind of. unconventional to me an entrepreneur. that's so. that feels so unassuming in a sense. in terms of. not having a huge ego i guess. um because the question i was going to.

ask you and my head is going he's. probably not going to. get a he might defer this to something. else's. you've created such an amazing business. and it's such a wonderful brand and it's. it's admired by people that are. customers and that aren't customers just. for for the business but. i can't seem to get you to tell me. um. why. you out of everyone else that was trying. to do this was successful. because i got the ambition piece i've. got that persistence and that that.

persistence that comes from that. childhood sort of maybe chip on your. shoulder but but. but i know there's more. well. i'm i can only tell you what i'm i i. think and i what i i do think is. you know. i i i love what i do i'm lucky i get up. every morning i have a skip in my steps. you know i'm skipping around i'm i'm. looking forward to getting to work i. i. i have a fantastic team around and.

um you know i care deeply and if that. all adds up to. it working that's the reason why because. it was never for me a money play it was. more a. a thing that i wanted to try. and make hospitality. you know and that is a. i used to say catering but i've upgraded. it to hospitality and and to make. hospitality a sort of area of where you.

can change it you can you know when we. open babington house you know it was a. first country house hotel where you. could get breakfast when you wanted when. there was no rules it was it was it was. you know your your bedroom at badminton. house probably nicer than your bedroom. at home so people would come down and go. well nick you know um. you know where do you get that tv where. do you sky that's new well i'm gonna put. sky in my houses or i'm gonna where'd. you get those sheets and and. so.

i'm. not trying to avoid your question here. but i'm just trying to again answer how. i feel and why i do it i did get. something more from that which is just. your care yeah how much you care and. your passion and your care seem to have. a relationship together but and that's. that's so important because a lot of. people would be launching it for money. and then therefore they'd care about. something else whereas you really seem. to care essentially about the customer. experience more than anything else well. i i think i always say to our team as. sort of if.

if our people are happy and that's the. members are happy then sort of. everything else will look after itself. because your places will be busy and if. you if you're smart and you're cost. controlled it. it it. everything else should be fine do you. think you're a success. i. i i think i said earlier but success you. can judge success in lots of ways um. you know i'd much rather be judged as a. father than. as. someone who runs a business and.

you know i suppose you'd have to ask my. kids that professionally do you think. you're a success i. people tell me a lot and i i suppose i. have to listen to them in in in in in. in their eyes i'm i i i've i've done all. right you know i'm i'm still there i'm. still you know we're still. growing it's you know. sales go up you know it's it's it's a. good business in your eyes. i think so i think if i was to be honest. i couldn't sit here and look at you and.

your eyes and say no i don't see what. i've done as something which isn't. successful because because it works and. when things work i presume that's a. success. and so what's next then for for you i. mean. tremendous business all around the world. and it's becoming so much more than just. houses what is the big next mental. challenge ambition excitement. well we're recently public. um. and you know we went public during the.

pandemic i'm enjoying that challenge. really yes i'm enjoying it i'm enjoying. dealing with. you know and i. view all the analysts as smart and. and i think it's making us a better. business and i think. um you know so there's a journey on that. you know it's we're only 12 months into. it and people understanding that it's a. subscription recurring income. that. you know a third of our revenues come. from membership and.

our our hotels our bedrooms are always. nicely full and we don't have to use. what other hotels have to use to fill. their hotels like booking engines etc um. i i. so i i think. that is a. a an interesting future on how to be. properly successful on the on as a. public company um. and there's so many. more places we can open houses you know. we we haven't even touched africa we've.

only dipped our toe into asia we. we. we got we're going to latin america. later this year um to open in mexico so. there's a there's a there's a lot of. exciting new houses opening um and. being a public company. and just trying to get better every day. we have a closing tradition on this. podcast where the previous guest uh. leaves a question for the next guest. and um the previous guest has left you a. question.

they have written they don't obviously. don't know who they're writing it for. but here we go um. if you could go back in time and change. one specific moment in your life what. would that be and why. oh. um. i would definitely have come up i. definitely would still would have done. over the top. i i would have done that. um. one specific thing. um. i i think i would have.

i would have. tried to get my life. at my. balance between life and and and family. a bit better. why. because. you know running at 100 miles an hour. overtime doesn't always. sort of. you know. achieve everything so i think i think. and i've i've talked on the behalf of. many entrepreneurs and many ceos and. who. just get a bit obsessed and and about.

their their world their business and i. think you know you you slightly better. of it if you're not so. if you have a more balanced view. yeah i was actually talking to one of my. friends about this last night that. you'll know um that runs one of the big. big companies in this country that's a. billion pound company and he was we were. having the same conversation about just. trying to remember amongst all of this. ambition that the like the actual most. important question is like are you happy. yeah and and that's one that um i've. definitely lost sight of for many many.

years of my life in the pursuit of. building more and more and more yeah and. then eventually loneliness or some other. kind of consequence will show up and. remind me that. i've misprioritized but it's a it's a. great subject now isn't it and i think. people come out with pandemic and they. think there is you know. we want our lives to be slightly more. balanced and i think. i think. you know. that wasn't the case 25 years ago or 15. years ago or when you started your. business it was it was you know it was.

that mission and i think. balance is good. well thank you nick thank you so much. for your time the generosity with your. time and uh thank you for creating a. business that i love and that i that i'm. probably at every week at current rate. um and now thank you for being a member. yeah. and you know i think most most of our. team as well i bought memberships for. them as well and um you've created a. business which brings a lot of people. joy but but the thing that i actually. love the most about your business which. is i think is a bit of a dying. um human.

maslowa need is community and everything. whether it's the industry i worked in. social media or whether it's other. things or even remote working now seems. to be taking community away from us. which seems to be so integral to like. the huma being a human and so house and. the brand is bringing that back and i. think that's why i would personally bet. on that because i think um regardless of. how the world change and technology and. all of that we're still going to always. um love and have a desire for community. so yeah i agree i agree. the human connection and people getting.

together and laughter and ideas and not. doing it digitally doing it in a. physical space is is great to see. thank you. quick one as you might know crafted one. of the sponsors of this podcast and they. make really meaningful pieces of. jewellery this lion piece they've made i. wear all the time along with the little. timepiece the sand timer that i wear. often and the lion piece you might have. seen conor mcgregor has a similar piece. which was custom made for him for me it.

represents courage and if you walk. through my house the house that i'm in. right now if you walk six feet in that. direction you'll see a huge lion. portrait if you go upstairs you'll see a. lion portrait if you look behind me on. the shelf near the top there you'll see. a line as well the reason my house and. my life is surrounded by lions is. because they represent courage. calmness and that tenacity that i've. applied to my business success to my. professional life into everything in. between for me the lion has always been. an animal that can be almost a bit of a. contradiction they are so loving and so.

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