Russell Howard: How To Laugh Through Fear, Anxiety & Imposter Syndrome | E109

If they're laughing, it's fine. If. they're not, it ain't. This is the. Russell Howard we have never seen. before. When you're low, it leaves you. mentally fragile, but then that makes. you work hard and go again because you. know the excitement you get from making. them laugh. It's an unhealthy treadmill, but at the end of that treadmill, there. is this incredible cherry. That's what. happiness is. figure out a healthier way. of being the best you without it being. so draining to realize what you have.

There will always be sort of shimmering. lights of hope in in the misery. But. sometimes somebody has to help you find. them. When he died, it was just this. sledgehammer to your heart where you. just go, Jesus, one of the one of the. one of the good souls isn't here. anymore. Russell Howard. I've watched Russell.

Howard on TV for years and years and. years. And of all the podcasts I've. done, Russell and this conversation was. the most stark difference between the. person I've seen on TV and the person I. had a conversation with today. I think. your mind is going to be blown. He's got. a new Netflix show coming out called. Lubricant. And the reason it's called. Lubricant is because he believes comedy. and laughter is the lubricant that. allows us to deal with the pain of life.

And we talk about the pain of his life. We talk about everything. And in this. conversation, there's more tears. Recently, I did an episode on this. podcast with Jimmy Carr, and the. resounding feedback we got was, "We've. never seen that Jimmy Carr before." I. have a suspicion, in fact, I know that. people are going to say the same about. this conversation. This is the Russell. Howard we have never seen before. And. it's an incredibly inspiring, valuable, vulnerable Russell Howard. It's the side.

as a Russell Howard fan that I wish I'd. seen more of. I have a feeling you're. going to be really surprised. So, without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett. and this is the Diary of a CEO. I hope. nobody's listening, but if you are, then. please keep this to yourself. I'm funny because of my mom and I'm. determined because of my dad.

You said that, right? I did say that. Yeah. I felt like that. was the beginning of a riddle. Like you. were a sort of a Gollum figure trying to. understand. Yeah. Can you explain it to me, please? Um, my mom is a a warm, twinkly eyed little. lady who is inadvertently funny all the. time, has no idea of her power, is just. naturally. uh bright and joyful. Uh, if you ever. feel that you're kind of getting used to.

hotels and the humrum life of, oh, here. we are in another place, um, take my mom. with you. separate rooms and watch her. reaction when she goes into a hotel room. because it reminds you of how you used. to be. Oh, really? Jesus Christ. They've got kettles. They've got tea bags. Look, they've got. a trouser press. Look, like she's so. excited and happy by the world. And. my dad is um a very quiet, unbelievably.

determined man who, you know, when we. were kids, we'd sort of he'd have us. mixing cement. Um we'd be sort of like, you know, building kind of walls with. him, plastering as a kid. I remember. watching my dad plaster and he was. trying to keep this kind of wall up and. he screamed to himself, "Come on, David." And sort of even at 11, I was. going, "Ah, that's a bit much." Um, so I. have these kind of two very different uh. dominant personalities that kind of.

raised me who I love dearly both, but. they are very very different. You know, my dad challenged me to a press up. competition recently um at a family. barbecue and he beat me. He did um 68. He did. Yeah. And he's uh uh 65 years. old and. uh yeah, remember this story. This sums. my dad up. U I had a school report when. I was 11 and the teacher said um what. Russell needs to know is that he can't. do everything. And I kind of go home and.

you know that moment you give the report. and your dad looks and he goes well this. mean you go well the teacher says I I. can't do everything. He goes why did you. say that? I I just think that I can I. think I can do anything if I put my mind. to it. And my dad goes you got to go. down that school now and tell her that. So I have to walk back to the school. You're joking. Yeah. and I kind of go in and go, "My. dad says I can do anything and you're. not allowed to say that I can't," which. is a pretty, you know, incredible thing. to do, but, you know, made school tough. So, yeah, very different.

What about brothers and sisters? I have a brother, uh, Daniel, who's an. amazing human being, very funny. Um, um, and I have a sister who is an actress. who's, uh, also incredible. Um, they're. very different as well. Um, I'm very. close to my brother, not so much to my. sister. We sort of all my brother we. just played football together as kids. and oddly Kerry is in the same world as. me now and is kind of a BAFTA nominated. actress. She was in um him and her BBC 3.

and super talented and yeah a great. human being. The we're they're a lovely. bunch but very strange. My family it's. like being in a Pogue song when you go. to kind of Christmas parties around our. way. Do you know what I mean? Do you. have. It's sort of you know those like I. remember weirdly the funeral of my nan. and granddad. Um it was separate. It sounded like they. it was a pack. but but I that feeling sometimes when. you go to a funeral and you're so proud. to have the same blood as the people in.

the room. I kind of feel that whenever. I'm back with my family in the West. Country. there's there's such a blessy. and energy to them that I adore and feel. so kind of delighted to be part of, you. know, it's kind of. Yeah. Um Jimmy Carr said something to me which. I've been waiting to ask another. comedian. There's a stereotype that. comedians are funny because they're. depressed. Yeah. But Jimmy Car said that's wrong. He said. you've really got to ask a comedian who. in their family is sick. M.

um because he says that much of his. comedic genius or his desire to please. people came from um trying to make a. family member happy or trying to ease. moments of tension in the family dynamic. when he was younger. Um do you resonate. with that at all? Yeah. Yeah. Completely. um that. my dad my dad is, you know, is. successful and super serious, but used. to lose his mind watching kind of Billy.

Connley or watching Have I Got News for. You. So, he would like howl with. laughter and we sort of figured out the. way to break dad's serious energy was to. make him laugh, you know? So definitely. it was kind of there's no tension if. people are like I've got a line in my. new special which is laughter is the. lubricant that makes life livable and it. it you know it really it soothes. tensions and it's a bandage that gets.

over cracks definitely you know and then. it's sort of this thing that you when. you discover you you know you can make. people laugh it's so addictive and you. can literally create your own energy and. like you do an arena there's 15,000. people there you'll orchestr ating this. almost societal orgasm where they're. kind of like lost in laughter together. It's you feel like a necromancer, man. It's the best. And I think Jim's right. in that it that initial spark comes from.

probably I'm thinking of other comedians. as well as myself. It's sort of that. sense of, you know, like I've got a lazy. eye. So that was a, you know, so I. became funny to deflect and did jokes. about my eyes to get to stop people. looking at them. And then you kind of. realize, okay, this is kind of cool. Or. if you're a bit thick or if you're not. good at football or you don't fit in, you can kind of. sort of. rebrand yourself in a strange way.

through humor. And you can you can. create your own. kind of energy. That sounds kind of. wanky, but do you know what I mean? Of course I do. Because there's there's. also another stereotype which is that. people who are slightly um slightly. bigger but tend to be really bubbly and. have funny personalities in a comedians. as well which is. would fit that kind of idea that it's a. it's a tool of deflection. Yeah. From something else, you know, they. don't want them to focus on or. um you talk about it being linked. heavily linked to self-esteem as well.

And you're. Yeah. Yeah. What's odd, the further you get. into it, you realize that it's so much. fun doing standup. Um, and it's such a. wild drug effectively because you're. doing these massive gigs in front of. 2,000 people and everyone's laughing or. 15,000 people or you're in New York, you're doing a gig in Finland and it you. can't quite get over it and then as a. consequence it's quite hard to sit down. and watch the TV and be normal and um so. you're kind of chasing that sort of high.

and it's about the real the real skill. is trying to figure out the sort of work. life balance. you know, I'm speaking to somebody whose uh house. is above work. But do you know what I. mean? It's like see the only the only. way around it is to sort of integrate it. really. But like I don't know. I've been doing. standup since I was 18. I remember doing. the first gig and it felt like it was. you sort of discovered a mechanism. through which you can do life that. everything sad, good, happy, weird,

peculiar can go through this sausage. maker and you can then uh understand. life, figure it out. But also that's a. very strange way to to do it because you. you you're. using the stage to kind of um uh dissect. yourself, but the aim is always funny. But I don't know of a better way to do. it than to kind of make sense of the. world. And the funny thing about all. comics is guaranteed if they find. themselves in a strange situation,

sometimes a heartbreaking situation in. life, there's always a little part of. your brain going could be a bit in this. And it's that horrible sort of, you. know, sort of disease that we have that. you can't ever truly be there because. there's always a little bit of you, whether you're Seinfeld or, you know, Taylor or Bill Burr or Chappelle or. whatever, your brain is going, "Yep, there's stuff in this." Do you know what. I as you're having the as you're getting. beaten up or whatever your brain I.

remember getting mugged in Brighton when. I was 18 and and this this guy shouted. to me come back I'm a police officer he. clearly wasn't and I said no you're not. you're a monster and as I said it I went. that's going to be quite funny I reckon. like but I'm literally running away I'm. terrified but my brain's going yeah. probably build a little bit about that. and it's I think all all comics that I. know have that thing where. reality is always auditioning to find.

its way into your set. Wow. That could uh that could get out of hand. and you could start willing misfortune. This is the weird thing. Yeah. Well, but. well, exactly. But it's that's the. problem. Yeah. Well, you haven't got any. jokes or anything. You're just walking. around dressed as a clown going to like. a [ __ ] zoo. There's got to be. something in this. But yeah, you're. right. But it it's sort of about keeping. life open a bit and keeping the third. eye open really probably that's the same. of all creatives where you kind of you. or all people really like you have to.

notice the thing the things that niggle. you and if you're talking about them. whether it's you know like in my last. special I had a big bit about kind of. young women selfharming. I couldn't I. was like what? Like one in four women. self harm. And I was like couldn't get. my head around that. And I just knew I. had to talk about it on stage. And. yesterday I saw this lady complaining. because the foam in her cup wasn't at. the top of her cup. And I for the rest. of that morning I couldn't I couldn't.

get my head around it. Just how do you. get the confidence to complain about. your foam not being there? And I know. somehow that's going to end up in a show. somewhere. That's the way I kind of. operate really. I sort of see these. little things or and they kind of I make. a note at my phone and they gradually. kind of make their way, you know. Interesting. It's like collecting dots from society. and then figuring out later how they. form. Well, I think that I know Chris Martin. does a similar thing where you just make. little notes of lyrics and Woody Allen.

does similar thing. Woody Allen will. just write a load of stuff and then he. puts it in a um a drawer and then when. he comes to write a film, he just gets. the drawer out, empties all these notes. that he's been making for the last 6. months and figures out what the film's. going to be. And I that's a lot easier. than sort of writing from a blank page. because you can then finesse your kind. of thoughts in the field when you're in. the laboratory as it were. You said. something there which I find really. interesting and I think is there's kind. of um almost analogies for life within.

which is after you've come off stage to. thousands of people in an arena you then. go home and have to like sit in front of. the TV. Yeah, the the antilimax. dealing with like that consistent high. then low. It feels like a lot. emotionally cuz that's like a huge. adrenaline surge and then even like. physiologically that it feels like that. must be non not natural. have a consequence. Yeah, Christ that's deep. Let's hope it. doesn't. But yeah, you're right. It's.

it's. yeah it every comedian when they're in. the middle of a tour needs a really. really good box set like do you know. what I mean? It's like you need. succession. you need madmen you need something to. get you through because yeah it's sort. of. otherwise like if you're trying to. maintain that high um you know if you're. sort of drinking and you're doing drugs. or whatnot it's going to make it harder. to be. that version. It's kind of like whereas. if you're a musician, you can still sing.

the song that they want you to sing if. you're on kind of coke or like or you're. pissed up. It's kind of hard to be a. good comic for a long time. if you're kind of, you know, on drink. and drugs. So yeah, you have to sort of. develop this kind of way of like. reintegrating your life. But also it's nonsense as well. It's. just it's it's fun makeelie like and and. and also what's important is kind of you. know going for a meal with your wife and. and and hanging out and seeing friends.

and and there's joy in that you know and. you see you you you have to you have to. try you have to plan fun. I think that. that's the crucial thing you have to go. right we'll go on holiday and we'll go. to that restaurant and we'll watch this. film because I think like you say it's. the sitting and the and the waiting that. is very difficult to compete with the. the innate rush that you get from. standup. because of what you do professionally. Do you find it harder to enjoy the.

sitting and the waiting and the meal. where you're sat there just you know and. the holiday where you're sat on the deck. chair? Not like I normally what I love. about holidays, I don't know what your. feelings are about them, but by the end. of like 10 days, I'm ready to go back to. my life because holidays remind me of. how much I love my life. And that's the. thing. So, you need to have that kind of. I'm a real sit in the sun, you know, read some books, um, listen to podcasts, whatever, and then kind of go again. But. I like the recharge of it. If there was.

a if there was a thing where you could. literally plug yourself in like a mobile. phone, I would happily do that on a. beach. Do you know what I mean? And then. kind of go again. But I'm not really a. when I'm in holiday mode, I'm not really. a culture vulture. I'm kind of a sit. down, plunk, book, sun, relax, get ill. because I've been putting it off. Do you. know what I mean? Your body just kind of. gets a bit sick and then you kind of go. again. How about you? Do you are you a. relaxer? Uh, I think I'm a forced relaxer. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think my girlfriend.

is the reason why I would go on holiday. and I think she's also the reason why I. would be present on holiday and she's. the reason why I'd go and look at like a. castle or something. Okay. But castle. like whatever she would want to look at. But I think if it was just up to me, I. wouldn't go and I wouldn't do it. And. even if I did go, I wouldn't leave the. hotel room. Yes, there's like strong evidence for that. because whenever I've gone to speak in a. country or whatever, I don't leave the. hotel room. I have no desire to do. anything but just be on my phone or. laptop. So, it's pretty sad, but I. think, you know, that's why it's. fortunate that I have a girlfriend.

Yeah. But it's also that thing as well. of like you clearly. with the job you do, you clearly love it. as well. I love it. Yeah. So, that's the thing. If you're. fortunate enough, there are so many. there are billions of people who are who. are who, you know, live for the weekend. Do your job, punch in job you don't. like, get your money, smash your. weekend, try and find your fun. You're. one of the There are so few people in. this world that truly have a thing that. they do that they get paid for that they.

adore. You just got to get hold of it, man. And just like there's no shame, but. it just seems peculiar to the outside. You got to be how obsessed you you get. about your job or I would get about. standup or there was a documentary about. the comedy store um on uh Sky recently. and I watched it. It was incredible. It. was a beautiful kind of summer's day and. I smashed the whole thing. was one of. the best days I've ever ran in my life. because it was incredible and it evoked. this kind of the comedy store from the. sort of the 70s and the 80s and Jay Leno.

and all this and it just you know I was. like we need a time machine we need to. go back to to those times at the comedy. store but because I love standup and I. kind of you know it it's you have to be. with people that understand your. passions because you can't fake it. You. can't go let's go to the castle if. you're not a go to the castle guy. Do. you know what I mean? But you're right, you can be you can have help to look at. the castle. and then you realize when you get to the. castle that this is a really nice. castle. Yeah. I wouldn't have come had. you not. completely.

Yeah. Yeah. Um. we're not staying for ages at the. castle, right? I don't want to It's not an Airbnb. Um. but you started writing. So on that. point of finding your passion and. pursuing it, you started writing jokes. at 14. Yeah. Wow. You've done your research. Yeah. Yeah. I had an old computer and uh. yeah, I kind of I watched a Lee Evans. video with my mate my mate Craig. Um, and uh, it blew my mind because when I. was a kid, stand up really wasn't on TV. that you'd have like a Billy Connley. tape. Uh, you'd have like Have I Got. News for You is a big show or Bottom or.

uh, um, Shooting Stars. It was that kind. of era, but Standard wasn't really a. thing. Um, and he was the first sort of. person that I'd seen who kind of was. just funny, wasn't an alpha, and I was. like, "Wow, he like it was mindblowing. I just I think I could be that's sort of. a bit like how I'm funny like you know. what I mean? And um me and Craig just. wore that tape out. We just watched it. over and over and over and um and I.

didn't tell anyone about it. I just. started writing these little kind of. jokes and routines and ideas. that um none of which were any good but. it just became like my little it was. like my little fun place to go to every. so often goes I'm going to write some of. my jokes. Did you perform them to anybody at that. age? My first ever gig was in Bristol, a. place called Virgin Murf, and I took all. these jokes that I've been writing since. I was 14. And I whittleled it down to my. best 20. And uh I did it there at Virgin. Murth. I followed a guy uh who was.

eating a banana with a spoon, singing. the theme tune to the Sweeney um and uh. another bloke that was sort of like his. act was to punch himself in the face. So, in a sense, it didn't really matter. how bad my 14-year-old stuff was. Um but. yeah, so that was it. And then I kind of. some of it stuck, some of it didn't, but. it was all like I had this bit about. like how did Captain Kirk get through. the entire I wrote this when I was 14, but how did Captain Kirk get through all. the Star Trek episodes without once.

flicking Spock's ears. So that was one. of my first So and I sort of think it's. all right. It's not bad. It's not bad. But that was the first joke I ever kind. of told. And one of the things I found quite. peculiar in your story is that your your. dad um really pushed you to give comedy. a go. Yeah. And that that seems of all the guests I. sit here with, the thing that has. typically made them um famous or. wellknown or successful, they their parents were usually quite.

against it and would much rather have. them got a quote unquote real job. Yes. So what were you doing at the time? Um, and. yeah, why why was your dad supportive of. it when, you know, at a time when that's. probably not considered a highly. profitable, high chance of success. career? Yeah, I was working at the RAAC in. Bristol. I had a part-time job. Um, and. I was also doing standup and I because I. started standup at university and then. finished my degree, went home and uh was.

just kind of doing probably three gigs a. week. for, you know, 50 quid a pop or like. sometimes 100 quid a pop, that kind of. thing. and um uh alongside this kind of. like shift at the RAC. and it was I was kind of like I'd have a. gig in Lincoln and then I'd have to. drive back to get to work and it was was. kind of like knackering and my dad. basically I remember weirdly not to name. drop but I was talking to Matthew.

McConnA about this and it's a very. similar thing where his dad when he told. his dad he wasn't going to become a. lawyer he was going to become a comedian. um um an actor His dad said, "Don't. halfass it." And that was a similar. reaction to my dad. My dad basically was. like, "Right, if you want to do this, you're 21. Go for it. Give yourself a year. Don't. stop. Put everything into it." And then. if if it's not happening in a year, you. stop. You get a proper job. And I kind.

of I I really respected that option that. he gave me. Do you know what I mean? It. was like, "Oh, be fine." It was like, "Don't [ __ ] around. properly go for it. Don't do three gigs a week. Do five gigs. a week. Just do that and then see where. you are in a year. And. um I was at the Edinburgh Festival. I. had about like eight days left from this. kind of like contract and uh my now. agent saw me at the Edinburgh Festival. have like a really good gig and he kind.

of said, "Oh, does it always go that. well?" And I was like, "All the time? You mad?" Yeah. Um, but I was I was. doing lots of sort of improvising and. stuff like that. It was quite hit and. miss back then. And then we went for a. went for a meal. He gave me they used to. have a a thing called the Comedy Network. where it was like 30 gigs around. universities. And that day he booked me. into these 30 gigs that were at the time. I still remember the money. It's £150. per gig spreading out into November. And.

but to work for um a comedy company. called Avalon. one of the biggest kind. of comedy producers in the in the UK and. then he signed me and so it it worked. and then I kind of moved to London and. kind of you know slowly kind of kept on. keeping on. I really I liked the. deadline that my dad gave me. Do you. know what I mean? because it was kind of. and I re I really really respected it. and he he had this amazing quote on his. office that that said something like I.

think it's by te ts Elliot or te Elliot. that said those who dream by night in. the dusty recesses of their mind wake in. the day to find that all is vanity but. the dreamers of the day are dangerous. for they act upon their visions with. open eyes and make them happen and that. is at the core of my dad so he's kind of. quite disciplined but he also has a [ __ ]. it go for it. But yeah, I just went for. it. But also because I loved it and I. didn't love working at the RSC and I. didn't I'd finished my degree and I knew.

what I wanted to do and I just I just. worked my bollocks off, man. I did every. gig you can imagine. But loved it. And. my brother used to come to them. We. traveled down to Brighton to do 10. minutes and uh you know we we'd have to. sort of bunny hop the car to Reading. Station because we didn't fill up. And. you know it was it was real kind of fly. by the seat. your pants stuff, but just. the best. It was the best. It was like. it's the best night out. You go to. Plymouth and you, you know, it's a.

six-hour round journey, but you do 20. minutes and it goes great. And then the. promoter says, "Oh, we'll get you back.". And you're like, "Brilliant." I go back. to Plymouth, you know, and um. yeah, it sort of all worked out. something so interesting when I speak to. successful comedians because it's one of. the like purest forms of like insanely I. say insanely but like if you were trying. to reach a lucrative outcome one of the. like insane paths uh one of this most.

insane pure followings of one's passion. because it seems to be the case that you. follow your this passion which doesn't. promise to ever pay you that well Yeah. Or promises no chance of success and you. follow it for years. 50 quid. and then I mean I speak to the. successful. but when you look back on that period of. your life and and if I was to say like. what are the what are the key things. you've you've identified hard work as.

one of them but what are like the key. things that made you. get here when so many won't get here? hard work, luck, um. natural talent, um perspiration, um um. but mostly and I would say luck is a big. thing. Luck and hard work are the big. big ones and and taking your opportunity. and having little kind of moments and.

always listening to the crowd as well. because it's sort of that thing where. certainly as a live comedian, you can't. [ __ ] people like that. There is you. get a tangible answer every time. The. laughter is yes. The silence is no. You. just can't [ __ ] with that. Like that's. that is the there is a truth. to the to the gig. If if they're. laughing, it's fine. If they're not, it. ain't. And. that's the big thing really. It's just. kind of, you know, all great comedians.

listen to the audience because they're. all that matters. And. you can be critically lorded, you can be. um you can win awards, you know, but. ultimately if if you don't hear. laughter, you won't be here. And it's. and you have to have new stuff. That's. the big thing. You have to you have to. make them laugh and constantly. constantly renew yourself. That's the. thing. Um to kind of to stick around. You make the audience laugh. They all.

burst out laughing. They clap. They say, "Oh, you're amazing." after the gig, they say, "We're going to rebook you. You're the best person ever." Does that. impact your self-esteem in a positive. way? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Imagine that. But. yeah, it's Yeah, it's the best, man. It's just But that feeling when you do. the Brighton Comedia and you're 20 and. you do 10 minutes and it goes really. well and Steven Grant, who is still the. booker at the Brighton Comedia, says, "Oh, we'll get you back for a 20." That. journey home does the best. or someone. says, "Are you going to do the we're.

going to get you back to uh to host uh. the Lincoln student night?" And you're. like, "Yeah, do you want to do it. monthly?" "Yes." And you build up this. like little following in Lincoln because. it's. it's it's of course your self-esteem is. just up there because you feel like. you're. a youth team footballer that's breaking. into the first team. That's how it must. feel like. You feel like you're kind of. Phil Fodden and you get these little. opportunities. It's probably similar. thing with footballers like what makes.

Phil Foden probably that he has natural. talent. He works his ass off and when. there's opportunities, he's kind of. clinical enough to take advantage of. them. Do you know what I mean? And learn. from mistakes. That's the And comedy is. is constantly about learning from. mistakes because you go you do new. material doesn't work, you you tweak it, you tweak it, you tweak it until you get. something that that that kind of makes. them laugh. We would one would then. assume that comedians have like just. tremendously high self-esteem.

if they're laughing. Yeah. But then what. the the interesting as well is how. quickly it crumbles down if it goes. badly and I've got a friend of mine Al. Pitcher who's a comic in Sweden and we. talk about this a lot where when you're. low it irrespective of what you've done. before you just feel like like such deep. deep shame that you've been unable to. kind of make them laugh. Um, but then. that makes you work hard and go again. because you know the excitement you get. from making them laugh. So it's this. it's an unhealthy treadmill but at the.

end of that treadmill there is this. incredible cherry. Deep deep shame just because it's. embarrassing. It's like you've you've. tried to make like even this I'm really. enjoying this. It's really fun but it's. very serious and we've got like a little. mini audience over there. I can hear and. every little laugh my brain's going. that's good and when they're not I'm. like [ __ ] hell. Yeah, totally. Just. because you sort of feel like you know. it's sort of that weird thing for me. laughter is truth and victory and.

silence is failure but then the. interesting thing about that is when you. watch a performance you actually realize. that of of another comic you go wow. there's real power in the silence. actually which took me a long time to. realize cuz I was very initially. just keep it up. Keep it up. Keep it up. And then you kind of, you know, you you. watch someone like Chappelle, um, for. example, and you go, he's a real master. of the silence. And you don't you're not. you don't lose.

him. Do you know what I mean? And you're. not away. You're captivated. But it. takes a really long time to feel that. you've earned the right to captivate an. audience. But there's captivation in silence. But. who [ __ ] thinks they're captivating? That's the hardest thing I find is to. kind of you can never know whether. you've been captivating or dull because. the sound is the same. Do you know what. I mean? It's sort of that weird thing of. like. I mean I don't come off stage going was. that captivating or dull.

Um but hopefully Yeah. It's really interesting. So when when. you have conversations like this because. there is no like there's not huge. amounts of laughter because it's a. serious conversation. But I love chats like this. This is the. best man. But yeah, go on. I that's what. I was basically asking was um it's when. we when we have comedians come here, we've had Russell Kane, we've had. obviously Jimmy Carr. Um they do make a. lot of jokes even before we're filming. I think you know Jack will like put the. microphone close to Jimmy Carr's mouth.

and I think he said something like um. just keep it like a fist away and he. said that's what your mother said. Yeah. And it's almost like a um a. Tourette's of humor which is and I. wonder how you kind of get through life. like that and it almost feels like. uncontrollable. Yeah. Honestly, that is the best. description of it. Like there's a joke. that I think sums up comedians brains. the best by a brilliant comedian called. u Mitch Hedber. He he's no longer with.

us. One of the greatest comedians of all. time. And th this joke sums up the brain. that comedians have where and I'll do. his impression if there's fans of Mitch. out there. Forgive me for this, but it. works better if you try and do it as. him. He kind of goes, I mumble, man. I. mumble a lot off stage. I'm a mumbler. So, I'll be with my friend and I'll I'll. say something and he'll be like, "What?". And I'll say it again a little bit. louder and he'll be like, "I didn't hear. you." And then the third time I'll say.

it and he still can't hear me. So I'll. say it to him, but now I'm yelling at. him, "That tree is far away.". And that's what it is. It's this thing. in his head that's gone, "Oh, the tree. is far away.". And he It's a joke about the mania. What. you know, I was saying that trees over. there. Look, but it's not. It's further. away than And it's that thing. The. amount of times I've been with my my. wife and you sort of say something and. she go, "What? [ __ ] you." Just I saw.

this bin in Primrose Hill the other day. that genuinely said protect um our. birds. This was the line on the bin. Protect our birds. It was a picture of. like a a bird and respect their way of. life. And I just went into this thing of. like I don't know you show respect to a. [ __ ] but like in my head I'm just. kind of like I didn't know there were. disgruntled chaff inches all over. Primrose Hill. I've never seen that on. the news of just kind of going today a. bird was the victim of of uh you know of. of of somebody attacking it. My brain. was just like worring around with this.

and she can see I'm I'm kind of full. zombie eyes just gone. She what you on. about go [ __ ] Ben was resp. that's kind of the the way that comics. brains are. I think that you you spend a. lot of time playing around in your head. Um and then you kind of go, "Oh, that. that might be something." You know, like. we were the other day um I was talking. to a friend about sperm donors and. somebody had had uh there was this.

website and on the you could sort of get. you could get your batch and one of them. was like um uh you know he was like 6'4. Swedish keen reader and um you're really. good job and you're like yeah that's. exactly what I'd say if I was trying to. flog spunk. Do you know what I mean? You're not gonna kind of go bit of a. loner comes in every Wednesday. We've. had to stop him. But but my point being, we were having a chat about sperm doning. and my brain was sort of off in this.

sort of fantasy land. Where's the bit kind of like. Well, I just found it so funny that I. don't know any true 6'4 high achieving. intellectuals that kind of just going to. nip out to spaf into a pot. Do. you know what I mean? It doesn't exist. But. everyone's tinder tinder bias. Totally. Right. But the point is you you. spend a lot of time in that kind of fun. zone. Um, and that I think that's the. brain that a lot of comics have. Speaking of that brain spiraling.

when after you've done a gig or you. know, can you remember a time where you. you like go on Google, you go on the. Daily Mail or something, you Twitter and. you look at articles of what people are. saying of you and it has a really. profound like negative impact on your. what you think about yourself and you. start to question yourself. I don't do. it. Like I I. came up in the days of uh MySpace and. whatnot. And that was I've never been on. Twitter. I've never been on Facebook. Um. uh I do a bit of Instagram. It's the.

same with reviews. It's a very funny. thing. You get a fivestar review and. your brain's like, "Exactly. Yep. Correct." You get a shitty review and. you're like, "What the fuck?" And you. realize that you have to pay no heed to. it. the only I mean it's flattering and. it's great and it's lovely to get nice. reviews and anyone who says otherwise is. bullshitting but it's with social media. you you you can't. it's too much to kind of. seek validation from people particularly. in the world that we live in at the.

minute where you're having to check to. see if you've been correct for you're. not going to be right for everybody and. and some people will not like a joke or. some people s you know you just have to. try and stay where will stay where you. are. So, I I've definitely had times. like that when I was younger and it just. crushes you and you realize actually all. I'm doing is paying attention to the. really negative things that people say. Um, and there'll be like, you know, one. out of 50 that's super horrible. Um,

rather than focusing on on the kind. things and you realize actually my brain. focuses on the negative and you go, "Yeah, they're right actually." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am that. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Correct. Correct. Correct. It. just doesn't make me. uh a better, more functional human. being. It just it hurts. So, I don't do. it. Do you know what I mean? So, I just. kind of But people must have said to. you, your agents, your manager said, "Oh, get on Twitter. That'll help.". Yeah. Well, what what I do, what I love. about social media is I like making. things and then putting it on there and. so putting clips of standup or the TV.

show or whatever. But I I I I don't I'm. lucky. I have a I if I want to do. comedy, I can go to a comedy club. and it's a dark room and I can howl or I. can scream or I can be silly. I can do. whatever I want. It's in a comedy club. Social media is the worst comedy club in. the world. because people aren't there to laugh. Do. you mean everyone there is there to. laugh and there's this sort of lovely. bonding experience. We're here for a. reason. Whereas social media, some.

people, most people in the world are. just up for a hoot. But some people are. are are looking to be to be angry or. they're looking to be enraged. So it. just seems naive to put humor into such. a volatile club. Can you imagine if you. if it was a club called Twitter, right? Hey, do you want to come play Twitter? Can you imagine how hard that comedy. club would be? Do you know what I mean? And so I just don't I don't bother with. it. But I like making things that are. finished and then putting them out. But. I kind of literally email them to my.

agent then say, "Oh, we should put this. bit from the show on." I don't even. know. I haven't got my login. I don't. know. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Way to live. Yeah. But but but and but and also maybe. it's because I'm 41 and I kind of came. up in an era where standup was still. playing clubs. If you're if you're a. young guy now, um it must be completely. different. And there's loads of kind of. great comics that have kind of come up. through social media um or through. podcasts. And I love that because. there's particularly podcasts, I think,

with like young comics, there's a real. air of punk about it where you kind of. going, I'm not going to wait for TV to. give me anything. I'm going to make my. own thing and then people gravitate to. that. And uh and it's it that's your. thing. And and you you can't mess with. that. Whereas I love that. I love the. fact that people aren't going to be. waiting for TV to anoint them. But I was. very lucky that I was just doing live. gigs. And then when I was 26 after. having done standup since I was 18, somebody said, "Do you want to go on. TV?" And I kind of went the traditional.

path as it were and kind of social media. grew alongside it. But I was never I I. never needed it, which is not to say I. couldn't have been bigger if I. cultivated it, but the content I like. making exists in the club and it's. finished when I do a Netflix special or. it's finished when I do a TV show. It's. it's in a state of flux when I'm in a. comedy club. Um it's in a constant state. of becoming. And the problem with social.

media, it makes everything finite and. tangible. And sometimes it's not. Sometimes jokes evolve or routines. evolve. If you put it out there, it it. might be rubbish or it might be. illconceived. It might upset people. But. by the end of it, having worked in it in. a comedy club, it might say exactly what. you want it to say. It's it's a really. sort of sort of holy space. The comedy. club versus versus Twitter. Why should.

you drink Hule? We're going into the. fourth quarter of the year. Diets are. dropping off. We're becoming lazier and. lazier. And what tends to happen when. when our diets dip and we we start to. become less um compelled to go to the. gym is yeah, we get out of shape. We. start to feel low energy. We start to. binge eat bad things. And Hule is the. antidote. It's nutritionally complete. So, you get everything you need for your. diet in a drink. You get your 20 grams. of proteins. You're going to get your 26. vitamins and vitamins and minerals. It's.

low sugar, high in fiber. It really is. the cure to a lot of the health issues. that we see in our personal lives, but. in wider society. If you've never tried. it, all I'll ask you to do is give it a. try. And if you're like me, then you. will like the World Berry, ready to. drink. You'll like the mac and cheese, which is just selling like absolutely. crazy, unsurprisingly. Um, you'll like. the cinnamon, and you'll like the banana. flavor. Those are my recommendations. I. know a lot of people love the chocolate.

flavor. Let me know. Try it. Get. yourself healthy. And send me a message. on Instagram. Tag me on Instagram as. well on your stories if you do drink, try it out, cuz I I sometimes upload. those tags. and let me know which is. your favorite flavor. Can't wait to hear. from you. As a comedian, do you ever feel a sense. of imposter syndrome? Yeah, I think I don't know any great. comic that doesn't talking to Billy. Connley. Billy Connelly used to get. nervous. Billy Connelly was worried that the.

audience wouldn't love him, that he. wasn't worth the evening. Billy. Connelly. If Billy Connelly is thinking. that, then you know, you know, all of us. are. And it's I think if you get to that. stage where you're like, "This is going. to be great. I know it's going to be. great." It probably won't. You have to. have a healthy degree of of of imposttor. syndrome. in order to be the best version of. yourself because you have to kind of, you know, you have to burst into that. party and be the best, funniest you.

because that's what's on the ticket. That's the the thing. And the only way. to do that is kind of hard work, you. know. Um, but to to to just rock up, for example, to an arena tour having done no kind of. warm-ups, it'll be fine. It [ __ ]. won't. Arrogance destroys standup. You. kind of have to you have to go to small. clubs before you start doing a tour to. kind of know you're okay to get rid of. that. And without imposter syndrome, you.

uh you don't grow as an artist. Do you. know what I mean? But it can be deal tough to deal with. psychologically, right? Because is it it. sounds like it must be similar to living. with a sense of like self scrutiny which. can be quite unhealthy. I don't I don't. know. Yeah. Yeah. What the I guess the. the key thing is to you've got to I. think you have to leave on on your own. terms. Do you know what I mean? as in. stop. There's a there's a while where.

this won't be healthy forever because. it's a str it is a strange way to live. with that. Do you feel that? You feel like it won't. be. Yeah. Yeah. Just because you just kind. of go there would just come a time where. you're you're just you're not as sharp. as you once were and you're like ah fine. I'll just go work in local radio. But. like like not that's not a dig at anyone. in local radio. You do important stuff. Keep those weather checks coming. But. doing kind of arenas. for a long time is, you know, I've been.

doing them since like 2012 now. And that. is a crazy level of pressure because you. sort of do we do I do them in like a. month-long block in the UK and it's kind. of. right okay, you know, and then you get through it. and then you're like, okay, go again, go. again. And that isn't necessarily the. healthiest way to be forever. Does it have mental health implications. on you? Because like if you're living. with that kind of internal fluctuation.

all the time and that. anticipation that those feelings of. self-doubt that you know they say that. anxiety in particular is like concern. about the future. If you're constantly. thinking about the future, that moment. in that arena is do you feel anxious at. all? Well, the funny thing is the only. time you don't feel anxious is when. you're doing the uh when you're doing. standup, but weirdly that's the that's. the rest bite. Um, but the leading up to. it, it's nerve-wracking, but as soon as. you step on the uh on the stage, you. kind of you know exactly what you're.

going to do and it's fun. It's the most. fun in the world. And then it's the but. the leading up to it and the afterwards. Was that right? Was that fine? It was. good. Right. Fine. You know, I think you. sort of just make your peace with it. And you like you say it's it's me it. leaves you mentally fragile but I don't. know of another way of doing it. Do you have you suffered with anxiety. though? Oh yeah massively. Like it's sort of but. I think it's sort of that thing like. right I have these gigs. If I don't do. this work I'm going to look like a fool.

People are going to boo me. There's. going to be anger. Blah blah blah blah. So you go. So that fear drives you to. write and perform and get a show that's. good enough. Right. And I've not found. anything that was a useful motivator. But like you say, it's a tough way of of. being. Like Johnny Wilkinson, I remember. seeing this about him. Johnny Wilkinson. kicked the uh winning um I don't know. rugby, but the winning. World Cup kick. World Cup kick. Yeah. Right. Um and as. the ball sort of soared over, apparently.

he said to himself, his brain went, "You. nearly missed that." as it went over. like and he's won the World Cup and the. next day he was training and he was. kicking goals again to ensure that he. didn't make that mistake and. unfortunately. for him that's what makes him. magnificent you know what I mean and it. and I think it's sort of that thing. where you go the older you get you can. try and adapt it and try and figure out. and you know and we're all in a constant.

state of becoming as regards our sort of. mental health and trying to. um figure out a healthier way of being. the best you without it being so. draining. But he scored the winning. goal, the World Cup, you know, and it's. sort of. it's kind of shitty, but he but but that. that determination is what sort of made. him. And it's kind of. I guess the thing is it's about kind of.

ensuring that you have enough kindness. to yourself around that so that you kind. of give yourself a break from time to. time. and that the overall picture is happy. that Yeah. Yeah. But but but I don't. know of a a better motivator than fear. to make good stuff. Like if it if it. exists. I mean what do can you recognize. that? Do you have what what is there. another thing that you have? I I guess excitement if you could turn. fear into excitement that would be a. healthier way of doing it.

Yeah. But I just don't find it as oh yeah so. much fun because we'll go there and it's. going to be great. But then you wouldn't do the prep, right? As you say, if I excited, I. wouldn't I'd probably neglect. Well, that would be the thing. So that. So you'd have like six months of joy. Yeah. And then you do the thing. It would be. [ __ ] awful. And then whereas at least. this way you have six months of tension. and then you have joy and then the kind. of joy lasts throughout the tour. and then after the tour. and then after the tour you go back to. fear.

to get there. I but I don't know like. it's but I I don't have the answers and. I I I don't know what works for other. people. But for me it is that and it's. something that I'm trying to address. which like. living in fear too much. living in fear too much or putting too. much responsibility on the thing but I. don't know of another way and like you. know and I'm sort of you know seeing. people and trying to figure it out but I. don't know. what motivates you for example. It's a I completely get it. It's a.

trade-off, right? If you want to achieve. the goal, you need this. Unfortunat I. always think this. I think I think. everything has a cost. Yeah. Um and everything good in my life that I. love. comes with a cost. It might be it could. even be a financial cost or it could be. some other type of sacrifice. And those. that have risen the highest in certain. professions, it's so obvious to see the. cost in their lives. It's much more. obvious than everyone else. So, I sit. here with my guests. I see it with Eddie. Eddie Hearn. He's built the number one. boxing promotion company, but he never ever sees his wife and.

kids. Yeah. And he's like it's like unsatisfiable as. a human. Yeah. You know, that's why his book is called. Relentless. And I well that's the clear. quote unquote cost potentially. Um and. yeah, with what you're saying being an. arena performer, one would think that you spend a lot of. time in a certain mental place which is. uh not always great. Yeah. But then I was just thinking then. I was thinking about. the the fascinating thing about life is.

you have these so for example we did 10. nights of the Alberta Hall. Oh wow. Which is like a world record. It's. mental. It was extraordinary that kind. of little me that used to sit in the. back of mom and dad's um Ford uh fiesta. watching the raindrops go down the. window that I did 10 nights at the Alba. Hall is mental. Um and it was fun. It. was brilliant. was great, but it was. like you're playing snooker, you know, get all the reds, then then knock the. rest of them down, done. You know what I. mean? But it's that lovely kind of. controlled snooker brain. Joke, joke,

joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. End. of the show. Hooray. Yeah. Go again. Right. But it was, but it was fun that. exists from a sort of dopamine level on. a very similar level as being on my stag. with my cousins in Vegas and hearing my. cousin Lewis tell a story. And so I. think it's my way of figuring it out is. to have as many of those. dopamine hits of joy, whether it's good.

food, good company, um, travel, books, music, whatever. So that you're kind of constantly. feeding yourself like because if you. just that's the big realization I've had. that if you only try and get happiness. from work for me it doesn't work to sit. around and and hope that your life. outside of work can compete with this. joy that you get from work. The only way. you can do it is to surround yourself. with people that you think are fantastic. or experiences that you think are.

fantastic. And it can even be little. things. It's just like, you know, like we we did some gigs in Dubai and we. went to a water park every day and I'm. 41 and I went with my my friends who are. all big big lads and we were on this. rubber dingy and we kept going down this. slide. We honestly it was it was the. joy, the silliness of the day. led into the the fun of the gig. And I. remember reading a thing about Chappelle. that Chappelle when he's on tour, he.

brings his pals. He brings friends along. so that he's. he's sort of living. the joy of life is connected with the. joy of work. He's never sort of sat. backstage with his notepad kind of. waiting for an hour and a half to go on. And that's something I'm trying to do. I'm trying to kind of involve people. more in in kind of work and be less kind. of you need to stay away. I need to. concentrate, you know, to blend the two. And you kind of. totally Yeah. And you talk about this in. the same way with you at the a couple of. moments ago you talked about living for.

the week and then kind of like. compartmentalizing that and then having. your life on the weekend and how that. doesn't feel like the best way to live. either because you have five days of. misery and then two days of like pissed. you know getting trying to find the. but I think also the pandemic has. recalibrated a lot of people that you. actually go we were kind of locked away. from each other and we were locked away. from experience and the happiness of. something appearing from nowhere. Those. magical nights down the pub or watching. football or listening to music or having.

a barbecue with friends where a a moment. unintentionally becomes a memory. And we. were kind of robbed of those social. moments that created memories because we. were sat with this disease lurking, not. knowing where our lives were going to. become. We kind of felt like we were. sort of immune from something this this. heavy happening to us. And it didn't. It. happened to everybody. And it feels like. because of that.

we we are now kind of coming out of the. cave as it were with a real desire to. um. find as much. majesty in the universe as possible. that that I genuinely feel a lot of. people like audiences post pandemic like. even British audiences who are you know. by a stretch the the the toughest crowds. in the world like by a stretch is that. that lovely English come in [ __ ] make me. laugh you know what I mean whereas like.

in America they're they're already up. like you do comedy clubs in America they. stand up as you walk in you know what I. mean and but but British crowds now. because people are people want. connection and they want experience. because it was kind of robbed of us. So, um it feels like it could be a a really. glorious time and like like you were. saying with the the tour that you've got. planned. What a fantastic way of doing. that rather than just uh I could just do.

you could just do a Q&A but you're. putting you know you're making what. sounds like a really pulsating live. theater show. It's going to blow. people's minds and. that's what I want to do. That's what. audiences want. There's a friend of mine. called Alex Edelman who said, "I like. stuff that's ambitious and finished.". And that's kind of where I want to go. And I feel like that's where audiences. want to be. They want to see something. that's going to rock them, you know, and. and and blow them away. What a target to.

aim for to a thing that's going to be. I'm gonna try and make a thing that's. the best night out that anyone's ever. had. One of the things you said was um just a. couple of moments ago was that you've. seen someone to help you with uh that. kind of fear living in fear state that. we described. What do you mean by you've. seen someone? are just a bit of therapy. to um yeah try and uh. um have like sort of little coping. mechanisms, you know, you sort of just.

get you get far enough into it where you. go maybe just have a bit of help now um. to recognize kind of moments of mania. and how to kind of manage them a bit. better. So nothing super exciting. It's. not a shaman. or um you know, it's not any kind of. Iaska or or mushrooms. It's just a bloke. in a in an office. So, what was your intention when you. went to bloke in the office? um just to. kind of make it a bit easier so that you. weren't. loading it too much so you can still.

like you know. work if efficiently without it becoming. debilitating because I think that's the. thing probably a lot of people suffer. from that by using fear as a motivator. sometimes. you're probably losing 20% of your. potential through kind of um panic. So. yeah, it was sort of God, I sound like a. [ __ ] robot when I said that. But you. know what I mean? It was sort of that. thing of like.

just trying to figure out, okay, is. there another way of doing this? Was that? Uh yeah, it's but even recognizing when. you're um. just a bit fullon and just kind of go, "All right, just calm down." But I'm a. real sucker for like little quotes, man. Or I was weirdly I'm interviewing Will. Smith on Thursday. Oh man. Which is mad. For 10 minutes. I've got a. 10-minute interview with Will Smith. I'm so jealous. They they emailed me and. said because we have the same publisher. like Will Smith's coming to town. I was. like, "Can I get on the podcast like.

he's got no time?". Yeah. I'd have loved 10 minutes. Well, but this is it. Well, I'll sneak. you along, man. Let's do it. See if we. can double up. Well, but but I was. listening to the beginning of his book. and um it's a brilliant story about his. dad made him and his uh brother build a. wall. And it's just this this is very. very simple analogy. You've probably. read it. It's just brick by brick and. that's particularly when you're making a. TV show and you're writing topical jokes. sometimes. Well, it's sometimes it's. really hard to make stories interesting.

and to write jokes about things that are. going on. And in that instance this. week, that really helped me brick by. brick and I'm able to kind of go, okay, yeah, cool. I can I can get stuff from. that. You know, I'm I'm very much a from. a philosophical point of view or a. therapy point of view, I need pointers. and tips to make me better. I'm not a. enjoy every sandwich kind of a guy. because it's a [ __ ] sandwich. Like I, you know what I mean? Like being. in the sandwich just like it's a [ __ ].

sandwich. Like I I I need I'm very much. kind of eastern philosophy of like okay, how do we how do we make ourselves. better? I love the idea of kind of sort. of self-improvement and being the best. you. Um, so I find quotes help that, you. know, and even talking to somebody like that I. am like a bit of an expert, you he he'll. say something or you'll say something. and you kind of unravel a thing. and. even like what we're doing now sort of. having a chat about.

the process and I have a um my friend. James Bay uh the singer we particularly. during the dur during COVID we spoke a. lot about uh everything and about. creativity and talking to like-minded. individuals about the pursuit of a joke. or a or a song or a uh any kind of piece. of art I find really really interesting. I love it. I'm so interested in the way. that musicians create. I'm so envious.

because they sit in a cool room or they. go to like this studio and they kind of. write and they jam and they riff and. they create a thing and then they. perform it. Whereas. the musicians I know are very envious of. the way the comedians create which is. you go in front of a crowd and you. create with not for. You know, it would be like the comparison of like. Chris Martin going in front of a crowd. in Chisik and going, "It was all blue. Nope." Okay. Uh, it was all green. Nope. It was all yellow. Yellow. Right. I'll.

do yellow tomorrow. And it sort of is. that kind of process. So talking to. different creatives or anyone who is. sort of an expert in managing yourself. is something that I find really. comforting or or you know. like. even I've really got to this guy Andrew. Huberman at the minute he's like a. professor from Stanford and there's all. these kind of. neural linguistic things you can do to. help yourself you know like cold showers.

and all this and Wimhof breathing all. this kind of stuff. Does that stuff work for you? Maybe it's psychossematic, but yeah, it. feels like it does. Do you know what I. mean? You feel like you've done your. It's like going to the gym. It just. feels like medicine for you, doesn't it? You always feel like no, no one enjoys. going to the gym, you know? I imagine. Arnold Schwarzenegger did, but most. people are just like, "Right, do it.". And it feels like a nice little tick for. your soul. And it just feels like. therapy is almost well, it's exactly. that, isn't it? It's a workout for your.

brain or having a conversation like this. is a really nice workout for your brain. where we're both in kind of like a. strange dream like state where we're. kind of having a deep conversation. Um. we're kind of riffing but somehow. without planning any of this we're. getting to a deeper. place and yet it's very strange cuz. there's people driving listening to us. right now. which is very weird. Do you know what I. mean? And well, that's the fascinating podcast.

in the future, man. And but you're in. the now, aren't you, Derek left there, but it's sort of that. fascinating thing that you let people. travel to work with you. It's the coolest. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like a huge Yeah. Especially cuz it comes out on Monday as. well. Yeah. Which is a particularly like interesting. day to be in their ear at 6:00 a.m. Yeah. But it's so funny, is it? What the. podcast you listen to? what your what. your go to. if you listen lock me up if you found. out like I listen to like serial killer. podcast yeah like therronos the trial of.

Elizabeth Holmes like crime and serial. killers tends to be my like go-to. and you know what it's actually I. probably know why now because I'm so. fascin I do this podcast I'm so. fascinated by people in their psychology. and for me criminals and serial killers. are the most extreme and fascinating. amongst us so I would love to have a. podcast where I could interview serial. killers and be like why did you do that. Do you know? Yeah. It's basically what I'm doing now. Slightly different fascination. So, it's just I I get so fascinated by them.

I'm watching these serial killer. documentaries trying to understand the. pattern in what made them like from. their childhood and their dad said this. and then kid on the playground punched. them and then they just started killing. people, you know. Yeah. So, yeah. What about you? Sort of more fantasy football stuff. really. No, I kind of um Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, it's cuz a friend of mine does one. Um, uh, I, yeah, I listen to Tim Ferrris. Yeah. And Andrew, uh, Huberman. Um, those are my go-tos. Marin I really.

like. Yeah. Yeah. She has some really great interviews. Um, yeah, I love there's a brilliant. interview with Maron and Seinfeld, which. is one of my favorites. Like I really. got into Jerry Seinfeld during the uh. during the lockdown, which is kind of so. late. Do you know what I mean? I just feel. like I've gone, "Hey, Radio Head are. good." Um but um but yeah, I kind of. Yeah, that's my thing. I like I like. hearing people that I don't know and. having my mind blown. That's what I like. about podcast. I'm not into serial. I.

find it too. Do you know what I mean? Too. too icky for me. What? And you call yourself murderinos, don't you? Is that the name? If you're if you're a. big fan, you're a murderino. Oh, really? Wow. I fit in. Yeah. Um, one. of the things you you're touching on. there about these kind of practical. hacks and quotes and stuff that allow. you to kind of get to a better place. reminded me of something that I read. about you regarding your pre performance. routine and superstitions. Yeah. Before you're going up on stage and.

there's, you know, 15,000 people out. there and they're all got their arms. folded and demanding you to make them. laugh, what are you doing backstage to. get yourself in this state you you need. to to perform at your optimal? So if. it's arenas, we get a football and we. just have a kick around. Um. really? Yeah. Yeah. So we just sort of do keep. you ups and you got to do 10 before you. go on stage. between Oh, okay. So. So me, Kumar, and Pete. Um and then. Steve and we'll try. We got to do 10. keepy ups before we go on stage. Can't. really do that if you're doing a small. club. Um there's a brilliant comedy club.

called Top Secret in in London. And um. it's very very small. And before that. you I'm literally in an alley that. stinks of piss um looking at notes. So, so it's it's always looking at notes, thinking what you're going to do, sort of trying to be calm to listen to. that inner voice that says, "Hey, you. could also do this." And that kind of. weird. kind of um funny that just appears from. nowhere. There's always the best way of.

starting a gig. Um, and that's it really. But there isn't. really a psyking up process. I I'll like. watch if I'm doing a big show, I'll. watch my friend who's who's supporting. me. Um see what get sneak in the back of. the theater or the arena and get a feel. for them and um and then just go for it. Why keep you ups? Is that just a tra. tradition or is it like a. No, it's just it's sort of if you're. there, yeah, there's maybe it's just. that weird thing of like, right, I've. done 10, I can, you know, and then if.

you don't do 10 the first time and it. falls, you got to do 20 and if it falls. 30. So, do you know what I mean? So, you. have to do it and then it becomes this. weird uh like little thing. You just. don't want that in the back of your. head. You can't do a big gig going, "Shit, man, I only did 24s.". So, superstition. Yeah. like yeah and I just. and I kind of like I spend a lot of time. with my tour manager Kumar, the mighty. Kumar Kamelagarin.

um and um just chatting about stuff and. just being kind of loose and sort of. yeah just sort of getting in the zone of. being silly and and just talking about. any old bollocks to try and sort of get. things going or you know it's like if my. brother comes on tour with me that's. always fun because it's kind of there. there'll just be a bit of a bit of. nothing kind of happening and like yeah. so I like sort of just hanging out and. chatting talking bollocks and um sort of.

loosening yourself up really that's kind. of what I do beforehand. This is a very um I don't know why this. question came into my head but tends to. be the kind of things I ask on this. podcast. What was the lowest moment of. your life? What was the lowest moment of my life? I think when my when my granddad died. that was like I was it was yeah it was. awful and I was incredibly lucky because. I how old was I think I was 36.

when granddad died and um. he I'd never had anyone in my family um. well my cousin Shane had died when I was. 18 and um but I'd never been to a. funeral so it was Shane and and granddad. So there'd been this huge gap where. nobody died and um you know this sort of. beautiful family that I belong to they. were all kind of there and my granddad. was sort of like unbelievably. special kind of man. He was 4 foot nine.

and um just funny and warm and ju just. like a quintessential granddad. But like. he gr he got me into football. So I used. to watch football with granddad and. watch match of the day and he'd make me. and Daniel toast. You know that thick. white bread and he'd kind of like make. us some granddad toast. And he's just a. brilliant, brilliant.

soul that just was s such a big part of. my life that he and they used to come. and see us quite a lot and whenever he. was there I don't know he was you were. just bathed in his love like him and him. and my nan just adored me and I adored. them and it was they used to have a. poster of of me on their uh on their. wall um and they used to and nan used to. keep all the all the reviews I'd get. So, she'd put them up like and it was.

just that lovely thing. There was some. really some lovely reviews and some. shitty ones, too. And it was just like, man, why you don't take that? What are. you talking about? But but they and they. used to watch me on TV. And I come from. a a family where it's inconceivable. that that I could be on TV from from the. family that I come from. It's it's you. know it's like going to the moon but. because nan and grand said we'd watch. you on a TV mind we we'd watch it with. the volume down you'd have swear so they.

would watch me when I was doing good. news or I was on mock the week with the. volume down. our wrestler on the box and just sort of. see me kind of like that and but they. were so. through every part of my life I I felt. utter love from my nana and my granddad. and they were around forever and and. it's it's that thing where. I don't know for whatever reason he was.

like this sage and my there's a. beautiful photo of my cousin Shane who. who who died when he was he was 18 and. he was on a scrambler motorbike and our. granddad when we were about eight just. used to look at that and just go there. you go that is the bravest bloody boy. you've ever seen in your life. And it. was like. sort of a really interesting. um. story cuz he he had cancer and he died.

of cancer and he he went on this sort of. scrambler and he did this race and he. was he completed it even though he he. was really not well at all and and our. granddad told that with such pride and. it was this beautiful story and that's. what and grandad and you knew Grer told. similar stories obviously not as. beautiful as that about all of us and. and um yeah when he died it was just. this sledgehammer to your heart where. you just go Jesus one of the one of the.

one of the good souls isn't here anymore. and yet this is the the fascination of. life I was in Mexico and it happened and. my mom rang me up and said granddad's. dead I like. just low and. Um, literally seconds later there was a. there was a Mexican man just going. and it was just like [ __ ] me, the. universe is funny, man.

So, it was like utter sadness and then. something. and it was um yeah, it was just this. weird like moment where you're like. going [ __ ] really really. Um, so. yeah, that was the that was definitely. an unbelievably low moment and yet. weirdly became. at his funeral this beautiful moment. where you were, like I said at the. beginning where you feel privileged to. belong to the blood you belong to. You.

know, I've never done Who do you think. you are? I know who I am. I'm, you know, I know where I come from and I know my. people and I feel proud to belong to. those people. Um, and the funeral of my grandma was just. this reminder of the excellence of my. family and how proud and how much we all. love each other. So from that deep. sadness. came this reflection of my granddad and.

you realize that everyone in this room. were there because of his brilliance. So. it was this kind of weirdly bittersweet. moment, you know. M and my cousin L um. my cousin Stuart wore a leather jacket. and looked like [ __ ] love joy and. nobody understood and everyone's like. why you wearing a leather jacket? Oh we. know we didn't have a suit and we were. carrying granddad in the coffin and. Daniel was like nice jackets due and our. [ __ ] shoulders start going because. it's like you know like oh mate and.

everyone's like are they going to laugh. and we're like [ __ ] hold it together. hold it and then um yeah 6 weeks later. my nan died and uh it was horrific. Six. weeks later. Yeah. 6 weeks later. And then we went to. the um went to the funeral again and. Stuart rocked up with that same leather. jacket and you're like, "Fuck me, man.". And you could see everybody just looking. down going, "God, don't laugh. Why is he. wearing a [ __ ] leather?" He literally. rocked up like Hasselhoff. You're like, "Put a suit." But it was weirdly funny. and you could everyone go, "Fuck, he's. wear [ __ ] leather jacket on Jesus.

Christ, what's [ __ ] wrong with it, man." Um like it was all flapping and. that. Um, but and I I had to do the. eulogy for my granddad as well. And that. is something I put deep deep deep deep. time into to make it and I you know and. obviously you can't get it right. You. can't express what he meant to you. But. um yeah, that was the that was a long. answer to the lowest moment. But yeah, they they say um people can pass away. from heartbreak.

Yeah. is for for your grandmother to die six. weeks following. Yeah, I think Yeah, I think they would. they would, you know, joined at the hip. Yeah, they used to just kind of. Yeah, yeah, maybe it was that it was. just kind of Yeah, it was just but also. there was such constants and I just. wasn't I'd never really been exposed to. death and it was just this kind of like. to for it to arrive quite late in your. life. It was just a real like whoa. Yeah. And then you lo then and then. you've suddenly lost your nan and your.

granddad who would kind of like we we. got like my nana is particularly just. such a lovely she's got proper sort of. blue gray owly eyes you know and she's. always started tucking her sort of shirt. down and she just come in and just tell. you little she goes just weird little. [ __ ] so I remember doing my dissertation. she was staying around her house and. she's like what are you doing I said I'm. doing a a um I'm doing my dissertation. now and she said what about I said it. was about whether it's right or wrong to. advertise to children.

And my nan went it's not like that. I. kind of went, "Well, I got to do 10,000. words." So, you know, it's not though, is it? Come on, come and have your tea. I was like, I can't just put it's not. Nancy Veil. I got to do this. But she. was very strange. We used to make. flapjacks together as kids as when I was. a kid. And she was obviously manan, but. um we didn't like flapjacks. And but we used to just make them as a.

thing and then put them in the bin. [ __ ] weird. Yeah, I know. Yeah. And. the reason we kept doing it is because. it really annoyed my mom because she's. like, "What are you doing? Jesus Christ, what's wrong with you?" And then she. would get the flapjacks out the bin. And. that was funny watching my mom eat. flapjacks from a bin. I got a weird. family, man. But but um yeah, those were. the uh I wonder if she did die from. heartache. I don't know. I mean she you. know they weren't particularly well. towards the end of their life as well. They sort of had uh kind of you know the.

certainly the beginnings of dementia. So. um yeah it was kind of you know it's. that horrible thing where. yeah I don't know it's just kind of yuck. and it you know. How about you? What was. the lowest moment in your life? Am I. allowed to ask? Yeah. Um the lowest moment of my life. Good question. Is it shitty to ask you? No, it's No, like if if I can ask.

someone else, they have to ask me. I. don't even It's a really interesting. question. Um. I think it would probably be ah no, I. know when it is. Well, it's the one that. kind of stands out to me as really. sucking. So my my grandmother dying was. one of them, but I wasn't close to her, right? So it was just actually seeing my dad. upset, seeing your like dad cry for the. first time was a very like. Yeah. That isn't that a If you Have you. got a strong dad? Yeah. Strong. Yeah. Never seen him be. emotional at all. Yeah. That's the weirdest thing, isn't. it? Quiet, passive, just and then, you know,

to see him cry is. Yeah. That's very difficult to understand as a. kid. And then the other one is actually when. my dad called me into his bedroom and. told me he didn't love my mom. Oh wow. And that they were going to get a. divorce. And they didn't get a divorce. They're still together now. But at. seven, I think I was when he said that. to me, it was like earth like foundation. shattering information that I couldn't I. don't know why I always remember that. I don't know. I always recall that when. you know it's like I could never forget. that moment in my life.

What do you meant to do with that at. seven? [ __ ] exactly like. especially when it doesn't even happen. But um their relationship for me was so. toxic as a kid that I actually got to a. point later where I'd come to terms with. the illusion being burst that your. parents actually might not stick. together and then I was actually willing. them to get a divorce because they were. just screaming at each other too much. So. I think that's probably that's for some. reason those two moments came to mind. Um if I told you that you could never. write a joke again and you could never. perform again. Yeah.

What would happen to you? What. I don't know. It's. I think you'd go back to you I'd end up. being what I was when I was younger of. just desperately trying to make people. laugh and and just sort of I'd just be a. a bit of a nuisance at Tesco. Do you. know what I mean? When you kind of get. in your shop, you're like, "Are you. right? I was looking at the sperm donor. the other day. Oh yeah, she live 6'4.". Like, you know what I mean? It's kind.

of, you know, so I think. why I don't know. I just like making. people laugh. I like I like be. I like it makes me feel good and it it. um. Yeah, it just makes me feel good. I I. kind of It's like I say, it feels like. you're giving them a socially accepted. orgasm every time they laugh. So, you're. literally going going around making. people come. Why don't. Tesco mean Imagine making someone come. in Tesco? But why? Why don't I?

Every little help. Here we go. But why don't. That's the new advert for Christmas. Um, sorry. Go on. Carry on. What were. you going to say? But why don't why do you have that that. need and I like I don't. So if you said. to me I could never write a joke again. or I could never, you know, perform. comedy again. I would fine like my life would be. unchanged. But for you, yours would be. it'd be like an irritant. And like what's what's the difference? Well, it's the same as you. like saying, you know, you can't you can't have your.

own business. Yeah. You got to So, you've got to work for. somebody else. So, how how does that how does that. feel? For me, it's it's a definite loss of. purpose. For me, it's like a huge loss. of purpose. Um, not so much working for. someone else, but not being able to like. build. Yeah. do what I do professionally. It. would be this huge sense of like loss of. purpose. I might move on to like doing. shows or like just writing books all the. time or something else. But from a com. comedic perspective, it's like what.

you're doing is like very reliant on. feedback of sorts. So I'm wondering where that's like. coming from is that you know we kind of. touched on it earlier in the. conversation. It's just. yeah it's been s it's been such a clear. consistent coping mechanism in the. toughest moments of your life evidently. um that it makes me ponder. how you would cope without that coping. mechanism dealing with the reality of. life you. yeah but I think that's why I sort of. said laughter is the lubricant that. makes life liveable life is life is.

tough and laughter provides restbite um. for me and it. and and that's and It's so deeply human. Everyone has has irrespective of whether. you have a an easy blessed life, everyone has had moments of trials and. tribulations and laughter is just a it's. a it's a thing that soothes us and I I. find it particularly soothing that you. take the the sting out of pain by just.

making. making it funny. Do you know what I. mean? And it's kind of it just works for. me. I just find laughing. or making people laugh just the best. because you in in the moment of laughter. you're lost. You are not of this realm. You you're you're kind of in this p. white noise space. Um. and it's good. It's it's a it's a good. place to be. Escapism almost exactly. Yeah. But but Exactly. You see, and then.

you come back to kind of reality and. you're you're a little bit more. reconfigured or you it lightens the load. a bit, you know, and and and I. get a deep sense of satisfa satisfaction. from making people laugh. So, and you're. right, it is tied up in them. You know, it's very needy. That's absolutely true. But then, you know, I'm 41 now and I kind of know. who I am. I'm I'm kind of needy. most. comics are because I've been asked to.

write sort of my autobiography quite a. few times and it's like I just don't. feel like sitting and entertaining. myself. Um. whereas when you're writing standup, you're writing it for an audience so you. can perform or you're making notes and. you go, "Hey, I'll take that on stage. and I'll kind of riff it out and figure. it out with them." Whereas a book to me. just feels like it would be I don't. think I've got the skills to sit down.

and try and. entertain myself and then eventually. entertain people through the book. Do you know what I Like I did a thing. last year where we went to Australia and. New Zealand uh during the pandemic um. because we were doing some gigs out. there and we stayed in a hotel for two. weeks and we made a standup show that. blended me meeting people alongside. standup and it was it was one of the. most satisfying things I've ever done.

We met these incredible women in New. Zealand. There's a thing called the. coffin club. And what they do is, I. didn't know this. Turns out um uh dying. is really expensive and coffins are. really pricey. And what these retired. pensioners do, they make cheap coffins. and they kind of sell them for like, you. know, 300 bucks, really kind of low, don't make any profit. So these. beautiful funeral elves and they make.

their own coffins as well um just for as. a bit of fun. And I met this lady and. she'd made three coffins for herself and. I was like, "How comes you made three?". He's like, "I just keep putting on. weight." And and it was so touching and. peculiar. and and then we went into another room. and there were little baby coffins, tiny. tiny. And it's one of those things that. you I hope nobody ever sees that. And I. was like, "How?" And people often say, "Oh, comedy, hardest job in the world.". Can you imagine making a coffin for a.

baby? It blew my mind. And I looked at. this twinkly eyed lady. I was like, "How. do you do that? How do you get yourself. in a place to to make something that. sad? And she kind of looked at me and. just went, I do it so no one else has. to. And it was so beautiful. And for me, I I loved being able to tell that story. through standup with her on the show. And I don't know if I have the skills to.

tell that story. um through words on a page. Yeah. Do you. know what I mean? I'm sort of aware. of a. an ability I have as a communicator to. make a story like that deeply human. I. could tell that in front of anybody and. it gets to their heart. It's so pure. And there's so many stories out there. like that that the trying to find those. examples of magnificence. um I find endlessly interesting. But you.

don't find them if you sat down writing. a book. You got to get out there and you you. you've kind of got to put yourself in. peculiar situations. I met a lady that. goes Yahi hunting. Turns out there's a. Yahi is a big 8 foot sort of like. abominable snowman in Australia. Uh that. he lives just outside Brisbane. She was. absolutely wonderful, right? You know, mad as a box of frogs, but beautiful. And she was like, "Yeah, what we do? Put. some cigarettes out and some beer. That. should lure him in." Like, so she puts. this big jacket on me and she goes,

"Yeah, and you might want to make the. mating noise." And I'm like, "What? How. does that go?" And she's like sort of. like I'm kind of inching in the field. going. and she's like, "Yeah, you're doing. really well." And then I p panic because. I start going, "What if this is real?". And suddenly this eight-foot bloke comes. along and [ __ ] me like that and and I'm. sort of dragged off and you're like and. and then it was so and I was telling her. this and we're laughing and it's funny. that that again those stories I love.

trying to find those stories. So I feel. like I don't have enough stories yet to. sit down and tell them all. And the great thing about standup, you. can rotate your stories. You go, "Hey, do you want to hear this? Hey, do you. want to hear that?" you know, or things. can happen from nowhere. My brother is. an ex like we were we were having a. conversation with a friend of mine. recently and from nowhere my brother. goes, "Uh, what?" Cuz he was, this bloke. was talking about his friend. He goes, "Yeah, he's a vet." My brother goes,

"Yeah, to be a vet, you got to shoot a. can in the face." And I'm like, "What's. he talking about?" He goes, "Yeah, it's. the only way you can be a vet if you. shot a cow in the face." I said, "Is it. what?" So they do six years of school. and then right at the end they give him. a Smith and Wesson and they blast him in. the face and he's like, "Well, don't. give him that you thick fuck." They give. him a bolt gun, not going to shoot him. with a rifle. [ __ ] [ __ ] Like that. So we're having this kind of. conversation and I'm like, "What are you. talking about?" Goes, "True. Ke told. me." Oh, KZ told Yeah, he knows. Knows a. vet. Shot him in the face. So like that.

Now, weirdly, a month later, I'm doing a. gig in Leicester. There's a guy chatting. away and he's he's a he's a vet. And I. go, "Listen, I got to ask, did they make. you shoot cows in the face?" And he. goes, "Yeah, yeah, we have to." It's one. of the things the [ __ ] was right. So I. ring my brother up in the middle of this. gig. There's 2,000 people there. I ring. him up and I'm like, put him on speaker. on the phone. I go, "You're right." He. goes, "Yeah, what?" And I go, "I'm just. in Leicester. I'm at a gig. Are you?". And I go, "Um, yeah, you know that thing. you were saying about cow and vets?".

"Yeah, it turns out you were right." And. he went, "Yeah, I know." And he goes, "Listen, I've got to I'm watching Vigil. like that [ __ ] off. But that was the. correct story for that night is is my. point that that that sometimes. and it was so hilarious in that moment. It couldn't have been more perfect. And then all the ushers that work there. and go that was planned right. But it. was but it only came about because me. and my brother were with friends of mine. in Exat. He told a man's story. I had an.

argument with him. We all laughed cuz my. brother was talking [ __ ] what's he on. about? A month later, I meet, you know, a vet. He. agrees with my brother. and um. and we have a moment of of magic. And. it's and it's the funny thing that. that's all anyone would remember from. that show. Um and I I I don't have the. skills to do that through sitting on on. my own. I would be too excited to tell. people the story. Quick one. As you.

probably know by now, I'm trying to make. my life a little bit more sustainable. And I consider myself to be on a bit of. a sustainability journey in the same way. that I'm on a health journey. And it's a. privilege to be able to share that with. all of you. And you you all know if. you've listened to the last podcast that. I traded in my Range Rover Sport in for. an electric bicycle, which is now my. only vehicle. And next year hopefully. I'll have my electric car 2 if Tesla. hurry up with a Cybertruck. And that's. where my energy comes into my life and. my sort of sustainability journey. It. makes your life if you are on that. sustainability journey 10 times easier.

This is one of their, if you can't see. this, I'm holding it in my hand. If. you're listening on Spotify or Apple, this is one of their renewable energy. products. If you're watching on YouTube, you'll you'll you'll see this. This is. called the Harvey. It's this very clever. little device that allows the Zappy and. the Eddi, which I've talked about before. on this podcast, to be installed into. your home without hard wiring or without. batteries or without those um god-awful. transformers that a lot of people have. in their house. It's basically a tiny. device that's going to save you both. time and money. And for someone like me. who doesn't have loads of time on our.

hands, it's a real lifesaver. If you're. looking to make a conscious switch and. you need a quick fix that's going to. save you a load of time, then head over. to my energy.com to see this product and. many, many more. So, Patrice Evra, yes. Who sat there before Jimmy Car said one. day his girlfriend turned to him and was. like, "Are you happy?" And he and at. first he like resisted that question cuz. it makes people feel a little bit. uncomfortable. But um yeah, are you. happy? Um.

yeah, at this moment, yeah, I've really. enjoyed this chat like deeply and um I. feel pumped up and energized. So yeah, but it's back to what I'm saying. I'm. kind of I need the energy of others to. make me happy. You referred when I asked. that question, you referred to this. moment as if happiness was more of a. mood in your view versus then like a. long-lasting state. If we say if we were to say that it was.

a state, a long-lasting sort of the. baseline, would you say you're happy? Um, yeah. I I'd say I have more I have more. moments of happiness than sadness. And. then so but but I'm in a state of flux. with that. like, you know, I can be. super low and super. uh. sort of. depressed about, oh, [ __ ] hell, the. jokes are [ __ ] this week in the show.

God, I've got I haven't got the stuff, you know what I mean? So, I kind of I. can let things get on top of me. Um, but. I have more moments of happiness than. sadness, I think. Have you ever experienced what they call. like depression, like clinical. depression? Um, in your view? I don't know. I don't. think so. Um I, you know, I have moments of like where. you can't, you know, but you're sort of. aware you need to shift it, but I'm very.

much a right get on the treadmill, lift. some weights. Um kind of u do something. kind of a guy. I'm restless, you know. Um but uh yeah, I've never. been, you know, diagnosed or anything. like that, but uh but yeah, how about. you? You happy? It's such a heavy question. It's a really heavy question. I remember. the first time my uh. [ __ ] Patrice Evra. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. What an interesting, fascinating bloke. he is as well. Criy. remarkable, remarkable guy. Am I happy? Um I remember the first time.

I was asked it and it felt really. uncomfortable and I felt defensive about. the question. Yeah. My PA, who was also my girlfriend at the. time, many years a long story. We won't. go into that. Um she asked me in the car. one day. She was like, "Are you happy?". I was like, "How dare you?" I think. that's my No, of course not. But that's. I think like my ego inside my chimp. brain probably was like how [ __ ] d. like of course I am. Um. I believe so. Yeah, I believe so. Um and. one of the things that I has helped me a. lot is I'm very obsessed with gratitude.

and like constantly reminding myself of. like how unbelievably fortunate I am to. be one of the free ones. And what I mean. by that is like financially free, free. to do what I choose to most days. Um, of. course I have days where it sucks and my. mood's shitty and like I'm irritable and. I'm a bit of an [ __ ] to be around, but um I feel I feel somewhat content um. despite my relentless uh excruciating. ambition. Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good answer.

I'll take that one. Okay. Your manager said you're you're. the hardest working comic he's he's ever. met, right? Yeah. Well, I just like. is that toxic people in this in our. society at the moment of there's this. kind of stigma around people that work. too hard that it's you know toxic. productivity or. Yeah. But it's it's sort of you know you. you work at something you love. So it's. kind of like you know.

it's it's sort of those moments of like. you you just lose yourself in it. It's. like I imagine it's the same with when. Picasso. was painting. Do you know what I mean? He was just probably like, "This is. fun." Like, do you know what I mean? Like I you know, imagine his I'm not. comparing myself to Picasso. I'm using. him as an example of just sort of. imagine his his manager going, "You need. to [ __ ] relax, mate." Do you know. what I mean? The Sistines Chapel. But. it's just I don't know. I just I I love. it. And I don't um I don't mind working.

hard. It's all And it's also It's not. It's not working in the in the true. sense like you just said, how fortunate. to be one of the free ones. What? Like. it's ridiculous. Like I'm I write the t. I write stand up on my own, but my do I. do my TV show and I write it with um. five people and um we get to write. jokes. That is our job. There's an. unbelievably privileged job to be able. to sit around. and think of funny things for people and.

that can be stressful. But there are. people working in um in jobs that they. don't like that would kill for that. opportunity. So you're right, you need. those moments to kind of snap yourself. out of your funk and um and remember. that you're getting paid to do a hobby. ultimately, you know, in my case. Um. and in mine like this is. Yeah, totally. But but but but my point. being it's sort of like.

there's no there's nothing wrong with. having low moments and everyone does and. it feels like the world is better. now in terms of being able to talk about. them. But you also I think if you come from a. certain background you don't want to. [ __ ] and moan about yourself and kind. of say that you're having a tough time. or whatever. But if you're lucky enough. to have friends that you can talk to um. or things like this or a therapist or.

whatever, it just m it makes the pursuit. of happiness a lot easier. I think cuz I. think that is pos maybe that's what. happiness is. It's about talking. for long enough to realize what you. have. Whether that is a loving. relationship, whether it's a job you. love, whether it's a hobby you adore, but there there will always be sort of. shimmering lights of hope in in the. misery. But sometimes somebody has to. help you find them, I think. Do you know.

what I mean? Because I think it's very. difficult to sit within yourself and go, "Yeah, I can see everything's fine.". Sometimes you need a little bit of help. to kind of remind you of how lucky you. are. Your upcoming Netflix special, you. called it Lubricant. I now know why. Yeah. Yeah. But tell me what we can expect from this. special and and how it was conceived and. what makes it, you know, I guess worth. watching. Wow. Um, it is the best.

stories and jokes that I've written in. the last two years from traveling around. the world. I did a a a tour that was. called Restbite. and I kind of put together all the best. bits about kind of conspiracy theories. and uh uh COVID and leadership and. madness in the world and I sort of. spludged it all together and the.

you never quite know what it is until. you sort of step away from it and I. think it's actually a love letter to. laughter. That's what the show is. And. it's the the full hour is about the the. importance of of giggling and of being. silly and. how deeply human it is and. and it should be treasured. There's a. bit in the in the special where I I was.

chatting about, you know, when you hear. somebody play a musical instrument and. you're envious of the notes they're. making. It strikes me that laughter is a. musical instrument that any one of us. can play. and now is not the time to put down our. [ __ ] trumpets. And it that's what if that's the show. really. It's about the importance of. laughter and and and the role it plays. in which we do life. Um, and it's lots. of funny stories that are kind of all.

about that really. You talked about how as a comedian you. have to kind of have this like. self-evolution. Uhhuh. What what evolution in the comedian that. you are in this special lubricant. have have you observed in yourself? um. I'm slower and I'm um more thoughtful. and I try and make it more. interesting for people sat at home than. in the room. I think previously I've. been a bit too kind of high octane and. I'm trying to kind of make it.

pleasurable for people at home so they. can sit and enjoy it because that's how. it ultimately is consumed. I have a. fascination with anger and I have a. fascination with with beauty. I don't. like so I find anger strange and I find. beauty beguiling and that is only. getting deeper and deeper. So for. example that story about the ladies in. the coffins that isn't in this show but. it's it's somewhere deep in me and I. think that will come out in another.

show. So, it's sort of the evolution as. a comedian for me is that I want the. next special and the next tour that I do. to be deeply human and I want it to be. this in in in in in the best sense a. place where you can [ __ ] nod with me. and laugh with me and feel like this. connection with people next to you. And. I think that comes through the ex. through through exploring how [ __ ]. weird and silly we all are. I think I.

think the world's taking itself very. seriously at the moment. And um there's. so much humor in it. I think there's so. much humor in the. on the edges on in the in the shades of. serious stuff. Do you know what I mean? I kind of find it uh. yeah that's kind of what that's where it. feels like my evolution is that I'm. trying to kind of I try and talk about. you know I quite like being able to talk. about serious stuff for example you know.

we you know talk about cancel culture or. woke like the amount of times you hear. the word woke in newspapers at the. minute it's because it just sells it. sells papers man and it's kind of like. hey have you seen what they've done you. you can't say the word farts and and. boobies and ass in scrabble That's a. story in the newspaper and it was like. furious as woke Scrabble bosses. No. one's furious about Scrabble. No one's. like just and even if they were doing. that, how are they going to police it? No one's going to, you know, break into. your house and go just put [ __ ] on a.

triple letter. They're not going to do. that. So I find that mechanism really. interesting at the moment that that that. you go okay clearly there's money to be. made in kind of you won't [ __ ]. believe what they've done now that in in. in that energy but but also recognizing. that it's just a trick fake outrage. It's fake outrage and it's kind of it's. the what next brigade and I but I find. that really interesting. That was like Pierce Morgan's whole. thing for a while on TV. It was like. they've changed toilets to unisex.

[ __ ]. Yeah. but because it it sort of like it. just it works. It's easy. It's click and. then you and you're there. But it's kind. of not it's just not nourishing. And. there is actually a way of of of making. the people that are that succumb to that. and the people that think it's [ __ ]. you can bring them together through. really piss funny stories. Um or true. like that story about the coffin and the. the lady. doesn't doesn't matter your political. orientation, doesn't matter your gender,

whatever. That's a deeply funny human story. And. like you look at someone like Billy. Connelly like like some of his bits are. so beautiful and funny or George Carlin. that that that they're. they're majestic and and you're kind of. lost and I think there's a real value to. to humor and it's it's often overlooked. because it is silly and it is kind of. fart piss [ __ ] [ __ ] you know what I. mean? It's kind of you know what I mean? It's fingers and ears and Mhm. Yeah.

But it it it's it's a release and it's. kind of. it's a deeply important thing. Laughter. deeply deeply important. And if we. didn't have it, you know, like I think. it's only like dolphins and rats are the. only animals that laugh. I don't know. how scientists found that out. Oh, no. I. do actually. They tickled the rat's. bellies with a pencil. This is. presumably precoid. Do you know what I mean? Imagine that if. it's just kind of vaccine. I'm busy just. trying to trying to get this rat to.

giggle. But um but yeah, so that's lubricant. That's is it. December 14th? December the 14th comes out and it was. restbite. Um that's it's the it was the. show restbite and then right at the last. minute I decided to call it lubricant. Uh but that becomes a I mean we all know. now listening to this why it's called. that but it's kind of 40 minutes in you. go all right. there might be some furious perverts. who are kind of going this is where's. there's absolutely nothing here about. like about Vaseline.

about KY jelly this is it's bereft of. any lubricational. I hope someone writes in leaves a review. this is not what you think it is. it's absolutely disgusting I was [ __ ]. outraged. and then you've got until the wheels. come off as well which is documentary. So yeah, so until the wheels come off is. a documentary about making a standup. special throughout the co pandemic. So. yeah, it was kind of. uh yeah, sort of cameras followed us. around and tried to, you know, like we did gigs in football.

stadiums and car parks and. crazy. Yeah, it was brilliant. Nuts. But we did. uh Ashton Gate uh which is the home of. Bristol City. Um and we had to get 2,000. people in a uh 10,000 seater stand. They. all had to be spread out and it was one. of the weirdest gigs I've ever done, but. it's one of the best. And that comes out on the same day. So the the the dock is on the same day. as the special. So yeah. Wow. Yeah. We have one I'm I'm excited for both. I. actually did get the chance to watch the.

trailer. All right. And it was hilarious. And it's um I'm. particularly excited to see someone with. your smarts and both comedic genius and. intellect take on recent times. Does. that make sense? I'm most excited about. and uh so really really looking forward. to that on December 14th. We have a a. long-standing tradition on this podcast. where the previous guest as I mentioned. writes a question for the next guest. So. Patrice wrote, "Are you happy?" Because. that was the question that stumbled. upon. I don't I'm not going to say who the. person was that's written this for you. Okay. But I'm going to tell you what the um. the question is. Um,

what three things would you give to the. world you can only answer with single. words to make it happier? Jesus. Not that. Um, that's one. What three things would I give to the. world to make it happier? You can only answer with one one. words answers. I mean, this is a real reverse Aladdin. moment, isn't it? Um, a fixed climate. You know that's two words but.

you know. fine fine. that's the first thing. technology that stops. mental health. So you zap them. Okay. then they're fine. It's a sort of a wand. you wave at them. Mental health wand. Yeah. So yeah a mental a mental Yeah. So. that fixed climate mental health wand. and. food. Food. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like fixed climate, mental health wand, food.

end starvation. And starvation. It will end starvation. Yes. Right. And starvation. No. No. I was going to say [ __ ] me. I. give I take now. I'm going to ask you to. do the same. I But before I do that, I. just want to say a huge thank you for. coming today cuz I've watched you on. screen for many, many, many a years. I. find you hysterical. But also I I love. this opportunity to get to know a side. of you that I wouldn't have ordinarily. seen on screen because of the the way. that you know the format of TV and a. depth in you and you're just again. you're super smart, super introspective.

You're a genius clearly and um you're. doing a service to the world which is. clearly so unbelievably selfless in. cheering people up at a time when they. really need it that I feel like the. comedians amongst us who are lubricating. us through these hard times are national. treasures at the moment. So thank you. Oh mate, what a sweet thing. I need you. to come home and um say that whenever. I'm having problems with my wife. We'll send you the audio so you could do. that. But it's time to write a question.

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