Roman Kemp: Why Communication Is More Important Than Ever | E123

could you do me a quick favor if you're. listening to this please hit the follow. or subscribe button it helps more than. you know and we invite subscribers in. every month to watch the show in person. basically that documentary became my own. therapy. she said he's gone. still such a weird thing that people. don't want to talk about but yet is the. biggest killer in men our age roman camp. is truly remarkable and deeply inspiring. it's all about creating. tools. you know in our brain to learn how to. deal with these issues your brain. becomes mike tyson and is just beating.

you up and you've not had one boxing. lesson in your life so you just can't do. anything you're just taking it if you. had told me 10 years ago that would be. my job and that's what people know me. for. i honestly would not even know where. that would have even started i'm pleased. that i've got a good core friend group. around me i'm glad that i've got my. parents around me i'm glad that i've. gone out there and i've taught myself. the tools that i need to go and fight. mike tyson in there and and be able to. go up against him. and that's why i feel passionate to be. able to go and do that for kids now.

without further ado i'm stephen bartlett. and this is the diary of a ceo i hope. nobody's listening but if you are then. please keep this to yourself. [Music]. roman. hello what were you like as a kid tell. me. as a kid i was. i'd say. verging on um verging on attention. seeker. and yeah always just performing i guess.

i loved uh mimicking and like and doing. impressions and things like that like. when i first realized that i could do. impressions. i would do a non-stop and i would i. would go home i'd watch my teachers and. i'd say to my parents oh this is what my. teacher did today and i wouldn't just. say what they said i would. perform it for them. how they did it so i think i was. very much so like a high-energy. kid. i would say. verging on an adhd.

kind of assumption but um. it was definitely a big change kind of. when i went through my teenage years. brothers and sisters. older sister 32. [Music]. very different from you. yeah but to be honest like she yeah she. is to be honest she she kind of she's. someone that her name's harley harley. moon. one word very pretentious parents. basically. doesn't necessarily mean anything i.

think my parents were. must have been. slightly intoxicated after after the. birth and it was a full moon so they. named her harley moon but kids with. harley moon and roman at that time were. a little bit strange. so yeah just. no greater meaning other than the very. pretentious parents but um yeah she. she's. she's an amazing kind of person i i got. my work ethic from her from your sister. from my sister yeah.

my mom and my dad are are. really supportive and and they're always. like. you know there in terms of like anything. i do is great. they're loving it i couldn't ask for. better parents but harley was the first. person i knew that. she went out at 15 and straight away 14. whatever it was was like i need to get. saturday job straight away like she was. the one doing it like she wanted to do. it she was asking my parents when can. she go and do it. and i used to be quite there's part of. me that was a bit jealous of that. because she kind of had this like.

maturity quite early on. where she was making money and she went. out there and she became a. portrait photographer and then a big. celebrity portrait photographer and was. being hugely successful so she was that. person that i was like. i need to keep up basically. when you say i need to keep up basically. a lot of the stuff that i read about you. and your relationship with your dad in. particular um there was some it felt. like from reading what i read that there. were some issues with you feeling.

um i guess not good enough because of. his because of the fact that he had been. so successful in his career. is that accurate. um. no yes and no because. to be honest i'm so again i'm so lucky. because the parents that i have are so. supportive of what i want to do and it's. the same way however they've parented me. is the same way i want to be with my. children you know i'm a massive family. person i believe that everything i'm. doing now is for is for my family and to. create better people.

um. but i think with my dad and my mum in. that in that respect you know my mum was. part of the first group. uh. to ever um perform in asia do you know. what i mean like in terms of wham and. pepsi and shirley was insane you know my. dad part of spandau and acting career. and all these types of things. i'm insanely proud of that. so for me to then say i'm not good. enough for it or could never better it. puts a downer on those things i think so.

i put it kind of in separate boxes i'm. not trying to emulate them. because in my head they will always be. my heroes i sat here with um eddie hearn. and a lot of people like uma from from. he runs pretty thing.com and his dad. obviously runs boohoo.com which is yeah. you know the founders and that they they. often spoke to that feeling of when. you've got successful parents it can. feel like a there can be thoughts that. creep in that make you think. um.

often illogically especially in the case. of all those individuals i've described. that you've got you've got like a you. know a mountain to emulate all this you. know there's pressure yeah but that's. that's society like like i i always use. this as an example it's like you know. you look at um. you look at. any any famous kid like that there is. me myself being a an offspring of. someone who is famous two people that. are famous i will still look at you know. brooklyn beckham and see him getting a. scholarship for a photographer thing and.

go ah but he's got like because of his. dad and i'll catch myself doing that and. then but that's a normal thing to feel. that's a normal thing to feel i'm sure. he hasn't i'm sure he's got great. talents but i i fully understand why. people would look at me and go oh he's. got to where he is because of his dad. let me tell you at the beginning i asked. my dad hook me up like help me out and. he couldn't like genuinely like that. because of what i wanted to do was. different. but i would say with with my dad it's. never it's never the pressure and with.

my mum it's never the pressure of how. well you're doing and like you know tick. this off take this off look what i've. done you've got to do this this this. this this it's not that the hardest. thing with my old man and my mom for. that matter. is. the public perception of them is. how it is which is they are so nice. and like there are these amazing people. i always feel like for for me and my. sister there's more of a pressure for me. to be able to have a good relationship. and a wife the the in the way that my.

dad has that for me is more of a. pressure than anything to do with work. the relationship that they have weighs. massively on me because i don't want to. ever go through a divorce i don't want. to ever you know go through problems. because they never did. so when people ask me that question i'd. rather like. i'd do anything to have their. relationship over their career yeah yeah. when you were that age say like 14 15. when you were thinking about what you. wanted to be when you grew up what was. your aspirations at that point. um uh kind of.

i signed the record i signed a a record. deal. at 15. um which came through in such a weird. way like like it was like. meeting people and someone's saying oh. would you would you want to try and do. would you want to try and do songwriting. and i'd have been interested in it and. i've worked with a few people worked in. management companies. as a saturday job. and then they were like. yeah cool let's do it and i signed a. development deal with universal music. which basically means you're.

the label's [ __ ] right where you'll be. a part of any project that they want you. to be a part of. so they they basically own any output. that you have. and what you say you can do. i mean you got paid at 15 it was okay. and look at the same time i was being. able to sit in meetings with people who. are now heads of labels and and you know. meet all these people and kind of grasp. an understanding it's definitely helped. with me now having you know interviewed. so many artists in terms of what they're. going through because i've witnessed.

some form of that. and i did that for. three years about three years from when. i was 15 to 18. hey listen when when i. signed up i signed a deal at 15 and then. i went in to do my gcses no wonder. they're bad at my gcses i couldn't care. less. i i literally i walked into some of my. gcses i walked in the room signed my. name and walked out. i got you in maths. because of my name. like like. i was distracted at that age and i kind. of guess. i knew i didn't know exactly what it was.

but i knew that world was normal to me. and and. like the music world was normal to me. the film world was normal to me because. i've grown up in it. and i guess that's why i wanted to do it. it's never been anything to do with. fame. in our house do you know what i mean. like the idea of what you want to do. when you're older was never attached to. oh well i'll be really famous if i do. that. yeah what was your first sort of real. real job then. real job uh.

yeah so no so i i basically i i did i. did universal for a while and and worked. with you know in a band and in bands and. projects or whatever right. and. i then reached a point where that all. ended like really abruptly. partly because i just couldn't do it. anymore and it was a lot i felt like it. was a lot to take in and i remember just. sitting with my mom and just like. i was like i must be 18 and i was just. crying i was just like i just.

i can't be a part of this like this is. too much like the expectation on. young kids in the music industry is a. lot what was what was the well it's like. it's a lot you're putting in your own. emotional. being into you know music or into you. know this this kind of like thing i. guess the only way i can describe it is. how you know kids must feel if they're. young footballers and they're trying to. make it and they get cut from teams. it's a lot of emotion going up and down. and up and down you know you win at one. point and then the loss is so hard and. when you're going through puberty.

imagine that at the same time you don't. know how to handle that and what were. they trying to make you into a. songwriter no so i was i was part of. bands. yeah yeah yeah they put me in bandsaw i. was you know bass playing or or it was. like oh would you want to write a song. for other people do you want to do this. this and that and don't get me wrong it. was an amazing experience and one that i. would still do now 100. i think that. again it's it's everything that i've. done obviously makes me the person that. i am now and gives me the ability to do. what i do now.

um. and i i i just at that point had just. reached a moment where i was like i. can't do it anymore so and then i said. to my mom i was like i was like i need. to do something that is nowhere near. media and i'm just gonna go and get a. regular job every day and i ended up. getting a job basically just cleaning. toilets and cleaning equipment in a gym. near me. and i did that for about a year and a. half. and it was horrible. [ __ ] you know.

a year and a half is it. it was it was it wasn't great it wasn't. great i went out there i did i got all. the what was it pt qualifications and. all that sort of stuff so that i could. work in a in a gym. but. literally it's just glorified toilet. cleaner essentially like i was just. cleaning cleaning running machines for. about a year and a half and then during. that time i kind of realized that my. creative side was like really struggling. in terms of like i couldn't. i've always wanted to create and do.

stuff so i knew how to like edit. um film and i knew how to. film as well. and so. with my money from working at the gym i. went out bought dslr started filming. stuff and filming for friends and like. [Music]. rappers and. like grime music videos and things like. that just to make some extra cash and at. the same time like on the weekends i'd. just make my own stuff and i'd put it on. youtube and i'd just. have fun with it.

you know i knew that world was. a world because. i was i'd come from a school where. i sat my classmate was ksi. but that in that moment you're like. so i know that's possible. and i think that's something that's so. important for so many people when they. know it's possible. and that's the problem with. you know sometimes that's where i think. people get stuck in. well worst case scenario worst case to. say is a class system. because they don't know.

what you can do and what your potential. could go to yeah um. but you know i'd seen jj do it i'd see. time and do it and all those types of. kids and i was like you know what this. is this is an amazing thing that they're. doing. i'll give it a go and uh and from there. i will suddenly just kind of turn it. into this presenter role i guess. did you ever have an intention of doing. presenting no god no. absolutely not i would have been very. happy just doing camera. genuinely i love like i've always still. to this day i will stand by by this time.

i'm 60 i would have at least uh directed. one feature film wow 100 you'll do it. 100 no i know i'll do it because i'll. make it happen i don't care how low. budget it is but i will do it. [Laughter]. so how how. tell me about your first proper. presenting gig then and how that came. about there was a football company. called football daily i know them yeah. yeah. and so this was right at the start of. when they started out and uh. they were just a group of lads that were. just pushing out content.

and i just had this idea for a for a. video. that was based on uh. like a football pickup line video. and it was just silly and they were like. well could you just go out and film it. for us and i was like yeah fine. and then they're like actually do you. want do you want to do you want to just. be in it and do it if that would be. because it's cheaper and quicker yeah. right so i was like okay i'll just go. out and do it. and then from that they then started. asking me to go on to like chat about. football i mean football something was. so massive in terms of my life.

i'm an arsenal fan sorry about that but. how are you man united oh man where are. you from london. uh. i don't hear a man cuny an accent so. that's pretty many knighted um no so but. you know it's like. i i started doing like silly kind of. prank videos that then turned into. chatting but. it kind of all merged into one i ended. up getting gigs with. channel 4 mtv. capital were asking me to do like. outside broadcasty bits basically just. like for the breakfast show they'll go.

let's cross over to roman who's at. wimbledon you know what i mean but those. are so important those every like you. know with presenting is is. is air miles is you you've got to do it. like and and you've got to do all of. those jobs because they throw different. challenges to you every time. you know. and and they will come back and you'll. look back and you'll go i'm so pleased i. did that really [ __ ] job. because. i know what i got out of it you know.

there is no there's there's never a. thing as a bad job ever. because you will always get one thing. out of it whether that just solely be. i've done jobs i never want to talk. about everything in my life like in. terms of like how bad they were but. i learned that from them so the next. time i come to that point and i go hang. on this is one of them yeah so therefore. it was a good job to take i'm not making. that mistake later at that time in your. life did you. did you at that point have an idea of. what you wanted to do in the future when. you were doing the football daily stuff. and.

ah. if i'm honest i i wanted to i just. wanted to be football presenting. because that's what i loved and i was. enjoying myself. i was i was happy. and i was at a point where i feel like. i'm getting paid to do something that. i don't feel like i should be paid for. you know and i think that's that's. always been. my focus always it always has been. am i happy doing it. yes. okay we'll keep on doing it. and i think that's the most important. with anyone my mom actually again it was.

a conversation with my mum that she said. to me and she was like. what is it that you want to do and i was. like i don't know i don't know you know. i had so many things i was like should i. should i try and be an actor because. that's what. my dad did or should i try and do music. because that's what my mom and dad do. should i stay there. and then she was like no no but forget. about that what do you like love doing. like what makes you happy and i was just. like i don't know just chatting about. football with my mates she was like why. can't you chat about football and make. that your job. and i was like well i don't know anyone.

in that and she goes well why can't you. just make your own stuff and show people. that you can do it how can i wish i had. a mum like yours man honestly like like. that's what i'm saying like but these. conversations are real conversations. that she had with me and she was. literally saying well you just have to. show people that you can do that i was. like well how am i gonna i can't just. walk into sky sports she was like why. not my mom really kind of again my dad. my dad is. too nice he's too good of a cheerleader. anything i want if i said if i said um. you know when i was working at the gym. or anything like that if i had said. i had to clean this treadmill today and.

i think he goes yeah but i saw it and it. was so good. it was so good but that's what i mean. you know. the best parents i couldn't have lucked. out more you know if if we are living in. a matrix world where you select your pod. of who your parents are i have done so. well um but yeah my mum was the person. that was really like you know what what. is it you love. and. and i said that and she was like you. know create your job you know. make it and and i did and. you know she's my mom's very spiritual. in terms of manifesting and and i listen.

i'm more a coincidence person but. um. yeah she i think my mum always my mum. always says this this one thing to me. which. i will have forever and i will always. teach to my kids and i think you know. going back to what you were saying about. that pressure of having parents that. do what i do. uh. you know and and we're all part of the. same world. having famous parents. the one word that people will constantly. say to you is that you're lucky.

constant yeah it will constantly say to. you. oh yeah but you are lucky because you. got this or you got lucky because your. parents have this. and and i want to say to my mom i was. like i've just done this really cool. thing. and all people say to me is oh yeah but. you got lucky it's like so my mom used. to say to me she was like she was like. yeah but. break that down and you know break down. what what luck actually is and she was. the first person to say that phrase to. me where she said you know luck is when.

preparation meets opportunity. and it's so right you know i i prepared. myself in terms of i went out and i did. the mileage i did all the rubbish jobs i. learned about football you know all. those types of things i spent those. hours. you know wanting to be the best i could. be at it and then it just so happened. that an opportunity in life of rose. where i could show that skill set. and from now on that's all i ever look. at like ass. you know and so when people say that i. was lucky on something i was like yeah. but i prepared to be in that situation.

and it was. fake that the opportunity was there 100. i mean i even get that now people will. say to me that i got got lucky and. i always liked one particular example. which was when i i when i was 18 broke. kid up in manchester in moscow see. manchester yeah yeah. off in manchester and i was living in. moscow and i sent an email at 3am in the. morning. to the first person that came up on. linkedin asking if they'd invest in my. business and i was asking them for five. grand they replied within a couple of. hours and said they would if i'd if i. assembled the team.

and i'm super lucky the first person i. emailed gave me five grand i was up at 3. a.m in the [ __ ] morning. yeah i showed the email on stage where i. removed the times the little thing. blocking the timestamp yeah and i go you. can call it luck but i know where you. were at 3am on that saturday morning. and so again but you created that. opportunity. and that's what i'm saying like that. that opportunity just was there yeah and. you had to have all the back knowledge. to be able to do to provide it so if you. just went to someone and said oh i want. that and then they were like well what.

have you got to show for it you had. nothing they wouldn't have done it and. another another example that i actually. learned actually from when someone was. interviewing me the other day if i got a. dice and i rolled it a thousand times. eventually i'm going to get like 10 if a. coin let's say eventually i'm going to. get heads ten times in a row just. because i flip it a thousand times if i. flip 100 times it might happen but again. it's like increasing the opportunity. because of the amount of just flips. if if i had prepared in my life to do a. different type of job i'm sure there are. so many opportunities that i've missed.

in this life that i'm living that would. have been better for a different man. that's basically how there's constant. opportunities especially when you know. that's why we're so fortunate to live in. a place like you know we live in london. like well i live in london you know i. mean it's so fortunate to be able to be. here and and you know not be in some. you know [ __ ] part town that's why i. always that's why that's to be honest. that's why i always love. uh you know i really like i really like. you know the kind of grime scene and the. the the rap scene in in the uk and all.

that type of stuff because. these kids have come up from [ __ ] like. bad areas with no so low opportunities. and they've made tying of it you know. which is great so when do when did you. get a call from capital and how did that. happen. so. i had i had a call from them that was. like um. yeah can you come and do um. uh this was whilst i was doing i must. have been doing football daily stuff i. was doing stuff for like four music like. just little hosting bits online. and then someone called me and they said.

um. oh you come and uh. do a demo like come in and just do like. a. quick let's hear how your voice sounds. so i was like yeah come in. did that thought nothing of it didn't. really hear back then a few weeks later. will you do some outside broadcasting. bits where i remember i had to go to. wimbledon. and chat to people. just in the queue rubbish like join me. right rubbish stuff but all air miles. you know all stuff that to this day i. still know exactly what they taught me.

in. my first demo. and. after that it kind of went to a point. where i. they offered me a show that was like. they were like yeah you can do like bit. bit role shows so like 1am to. 4am. on a weekend every two weekends. do you know what i mean and you're like. and. you know a lot of people are like you. know all my mates again were like well. graveyard shift but i was like yeah. but i'm off i'm gonna well to be honest.

i yeah well that one that it was so. great because it because it was in the. middle of the night i could make any. mistake i wanted. no boss is listening so no one cares. right i could learn i've learned you. know all the buttons and all those types. of things i don't know like i know radio. presenters now that are like what do you. mean you do the buttons. yeah. yeah it's more fun like you know what i. mean so it's it. it was again it was that moment where i. had to learn and i knew that and i. wanted to learn the craft as much as. possible. and. with radio i kind of just accidentally.

fell in love with it if you had told me. 10 years ago i was hosting radio and. that would be my job and that's what. people know me for. i honestly would not even know where. that would have even started. crazy though which is odd and it's hard. because i get. you get a lot of. radio is a very. you know as i say it's a. clicky place because a lot of people. went to student radio and like you know. what i mean like those types of things. and i didn't take that natural path. to be totally honest with you i said to.

myself i was like right i'm on capitol. now. this is when i was 22. yeah when i was 20 20 yeah 21 22 and i. said to myself i was like right. i'm doing 1am to 4am every couple of. weekends now within well in 10 years i. want to. be doing the breakfast show. and i did it in three. two and a half three. and like that for me is still like the. best. you know.

achievement that i can name for myself. why do you think why do you think you. did so well on radio because i kept. pushing and i kept i kept like i always. like i speak to you know younger radio. presenters now or even presenters that. are there and i always say. what show are you doing all this type of. stuff and then they'll be worried to say. what i now say to them what show do you. want to do. and they won't want to say it because. there's someone else there but it's like. well. if you don't. you know what i mean like i was there. every single day i know every every.

other week i was knocking on the boss's. door saying. i'm better than that person. i i can make it better i can do this. better i can this better you gotta do it. no one's no one no one owes you. something do you know what i mean that. no one owes you that opportunity to have. a better show or a better tv show or. whatever you know if i go to a. commissioner at a tv channel i sure as. hell have to go in there with a better. idea than what they've currently got. otherwise what's point being there. i'll sit there and go oh can you please. give me a show no. like i've got to prove that i've got a.

show why. and and that's all i did on on on. capitol it was literally like i remember. they gave me. they they said to me there was like. there wasn't any show slots going and i. was like. what have you got and they were like. saturday five till eight. which was. a horrendous show slot because 5 pm till. 8 pm which is like everyone knows that. is. dog territory how come like just because. it's just low ratings right people are.

getting ready to go out you know i mean. on a saturday night no one's really. listening to the radio those types of. things not it's not quite 8 p.m where. you're getting getting doing pre-drinks. and those types of things so it's just. low rating statistically. and i was like i don't care give me the. show i was like i like you in the show. and then we took that and uh. me and and joe my producer when we we. turn we get we gave it the. the highest the highest. ratings. within that slot that there's ever been.

for one. and it did some record in terms of. weekend numbers ever on capitol why. because we changed it we before capital. was always um. constant happy happy happy as quickly as. you can in between the song. say as little as possible move on move. on move on move on. i wanted to create a show where i was. like no that's not what. if saturday at five o'clock. is quite a dead period for. kids that were my age at that time which. was like 20 23.

and i was like a lot of my mates are. these youtubers and these types of. things why don't i get some of them on. we'll just play some games we'll have. more fun with it. and we just kind of created this a vibe. you know instead of just going the. classic route. of what of what they wanted to do and. because it was a rubbish slot they just. kind of said to me try it out. and we tried it and and and did it you. know but it's just having that belief. and just being like bang on the door and. be like look. if it works it works if it doesn't it. doesn't take it off me. so.

i'm pleased that we did that and that. kind of led to me then going into. like an evening show slot. quick one there is a really exciting new. product coming from here which the. founder julian told me about yesterday. on whatsapp um and it's something i've. wanted from hill for a long time because. when i look at my kind of nutrition. stack the things that i have and consume. every single day to keep me performing. at my best and in good shape and healthy. there's one thing missing which she'll. currently don't do and to get that. message from julian yesterday and to. know it's on it's on its way is.

tremendously exciting. the thing about huel is they always. focus on a couple of core principles. which is making sure that the the stuff. inside the products are. not only nutritionally complete but. they're sourced from suppliers that. provide the best quality nutrition and. to know that you are now going into more. categories that are essential to my. nutrition stack is incredibly exciting. so if you're starting your fuel journey. or you haven't started your fuel journey. my recommendation is to get the starter. pack they have on the website i'll link. it down below and that gives you a.

little bit of all the products in a box. and then from that you can decide which. products are for you and where they fit. in your life and i think if you're. anything like me you might just fall in. love with the brand. you went on to do a documentary which i. i watched which was incredibly moving. for a number of reasons um personally. i've got a you know one of my maybe my. best friend and my business partner for. the first seven or eight years was. um. was depressed as we were running the. business and i had no idea yeah so i. only actually found out in hindsight and. he said to me.

when he came on this podcast actually. afterwards. after he had had a problem with alcohol. and i'd caught him in the laundry room. we lived together at like 3 a.m in the. morning drinking alcohol. and i'd because at the time i didn't. understand what mental health um. disorders were yeah so i just thought oh. he's got he's a piss-head yeah yeah you. know what i mean but obviously that's. i've come to learn that that's a symptom. yeah something um. and then it all came to a head one day. where he got really drunk and started. exposing himself in front of employees. it's a long story but um.

then we had a chat and it was the first. time we had a chat about what was going. on yeah without like anger or. assumption and then he opened up to me. and we cried on some sunday in the. office and he started his journey to get. to seeing a therapist etc your. documentary was just. it was just exceptional for so many. reasons. can you can you take me through yeah. because i because i know that you're. you're working alongside your best. friend joe. at the radio um yeah can you take me. through.

i guess the first question is um. did you know that anything was. at all no troubling joe. no. i i. never known joe for. since i started six years. six years straight being with that. person every single day almost like a. boyfriend. like that's that's like like we work. together every day we go out you know. all the time like like after shows all. those types of stuff weekends go out if. i had lined up.

my favorite guys over 10. 20 if i had 30 mates i'd say 30 mates um. i would probably put him last as to. who i would suspect would ever do. anything like that i mean to put it to. put it into context obviously. the documentary you're talking about. obviously being you know about. male suicide and and male depression it. was. even this world that i'm in now i i. really do not. wish i was part of this world. like in terms of like i wish i didn't.

have people talking to me about suicide. but this is where we are it's how life. goes that's that's it um but when it. came to joe my my producer yeah he you. know he was the first person when i went. to wimbledon that day he was the first. person i met when i when i did my demo. for the first first time he was that. person that was there with me this is. someone that taught me everything i know. in terms of my professional being now on. in terms of radio. he taught me everything. and. sat next to me literally. two foot away from me.

every day on every single show you know. laughter as i say go out together all. those types of things. but. i think. joe took his own life in august last. year. and that. for me was a moment where. i i kind of i. i had dealt with my own kind of. suicidal thoughts and my own kind of. depression and joe was very much aware.

of that which is why it was so strange. to me and why i felt like i had this. piece of paper in front of me that said. everything you know about of what you. think you know about someone that is. suicidal in quotes is wrong. because it doesn't have any form of. symptom. because that's why each suicide is. different to the next and you can't you. can't nullify it you can't be like oh if. someone is you'll know someone's. suicidal because they'll look like this. this this this you'll never find those. answers.

which is a scary thought. but it's also um you know like what like. what you said there like you didn't know. that mental health. that puts you in a higher risk category. than it puts me. the majority of men that take their own. life have no idea that mental health. disorders even. are a thing. most of them think that people are just. kind of. lying or or people are just attention. seeking when they say they have. depression. that's over 70.

of men that take their own life are in. that situation they see it as a means to. an end. they don't like what's going on in their. life. how do i make it. stop take your own knife. it's it's it's so. strange so yeah so sorry in a. long-winded way i would never have. thought that joe would have been that. person at all now. that really does um. make you think about all your friends. right 100 but that's why that's why like. wow you know and look when when i when.

it came to to making the documentary joe. died in august. i started making that doc in november. two months. right because i one all i know how to do. is. through. creative stuff i don't. my writing like you know what i mean i. write something down i'm not going to. lobby government because i don't know. how to do that you know all those types. of things. i just know how to make something and.

and i knew also selfishly i knew that if. i do a doc. i'm going to be able to meet people that. have tried to take their own life i'm. going to be able to meet psychiatrists. i'm going to be able to meet professors. and learn the science because i was so. convinced in my head i was like. i need to know all the things that i. need to be looking out for. for my other friends yeah. basically that documentary became my own. therapy. and and people watched it and i think. that's why. you know i realized after that [ __ ] like.

it is one it's everywhere. and two there is no. there's no way of telling so therefore. the only people that can help those. people are their friends. and that's what the documentary is it's. not a documentary about suicide it's a. documentary about friendship and how we. now have to take ownership of our mates. what did that journey of creating that. documentary and your own experiences. teach you about and this is one of the. things that's really fascinated me for a.

long time is like we're seeing this. apparent increase in mental health. disorders and i say apparent because. sometimes it's hard to distinguish. whether it's because of the increase in. awareness that we have more people. putting the hand up and say listen i'm. suffering or it's because if the world. has changed social media whatever you. want to call it and people are we're. living in a less. healthy way but so we're seeing this the. data shows that there's a pretty. significant increase in mental health. disorders things like treatment. resistant depression i'm actually the. creative director one of the big. investment investors in a um a tie which.

is one of the maybe the biggest mental. health psychedelics business in the. world so i do a lot of i have spent a. lot of time looking at clinical studies. and obviously psychedelics is it comes. that depression more from a place of. like what's happened to you versus. what's wrong with you yeah yeah yeah. it's about like ayahuasca and stuff like. that yeah yeah you're like yeah it's. more sort of like trauma-centric. approach to looking at. what have you learned about what's. causing the increase in mental health. disorders from your journey um. it's it's tough i mean i can only speak. from a male perspective um obviously.

um and i only ever have done because. i i it's so easy and the thing the thing. that the most. the thing that i saw the most was. oh um. everyone's saying to me well it's social. media in it there's social media the. fastest is not like like social media is. there yes and and it and it can you know. create. a trigger or anything like that for. someone that. may be feeling down i don't think it's. the sole purpose i can also be madly.

inspired by social media i can also be. made to feel really really happy by. social media. i think the main problem with men is is. purely down to. is is almost toxic masculinity so it's. our own kind of fault you know the. pressures that we put on ourselves. um. to to be you know the person that we. want to be to to to have the body that. we want to to have the things that we. want and to to have the job the family. you know even the pressure that i put on. myself to have the family that i should.

have. you know i'm i worry that if i come to. like the age of 50 and i don't have that. how am i gonna feel. you know and it's all about. it's all about creating. tools. you know in our brain for kids as young. as five and and you know throughout. primary school to learn how to deal with. these issues throughout time like people. have had depression it's just how our. brains are worked. you know what i mean that's how our. brains and why there's always been. depression yeah you know you've got a.

right point in terms of like the data. i'll obviously show. that there's more because there are more. cases don't get me wrong like throughout. the pandemic obviously. i always like i don't go too much into. to government stuff but i think it's so. like grotesque to even. trap people in their homes in the way. that obviously they did do and not think. about. the mental health side of things because. they haven't they completely ignored it. like like the government completely. ignored how much of a problem.

mental health will be. during the pandemic people being on. their own not being able to go about. their lives you know and also the trauma. that that's going to have later on in. life for kids. you know i learned a stat though that is. horrendous right and this is something. that. you know when i was asked will i go out. and make another documentary and i think. for this. stat i want to. because i can't quite believe it. any business or any school has to sign a. health and safety declaration.

right and that's how it is they all have. to sign a piece of paper that says if. you hurt yourself here. we'll sign that 100 of schools up and. down the country sign that. there is also a declaration of mental. health right where a school has to look. after a kid if the traumatic event. happens within school they have to make. sure that you know their their mental. health is looked after. in the uk. two percent of schools have signed that. so you're saying that 98 of schools up.

and down the uk. look at mental health and go nothing to. do with us. school is the most traumatic time in. anyone's life if parents knew that if. parents knew that the. schools don't care about your kids. mental health. then that that is what is you know. that's what's putting us in a situation. now where men are killing themselves. because we don't know we've never been. taught how to deal with it no one's ever. looked after us. teaching us how to deal with it you talk. about toxic masculinity though one of.

the things that's always associated with. that is just men's lack of willingness. to like. make a phone call yeah to a friend and. say listen i am. not okay and you know you also have been. very open about the day where you were. feeling like that and your. superwoman mother yes once again yeah. she she called you coincidentally or. yeah yeah yeah yeah coincidentally well. it was kind of like yeah i went to. caller and then like [ __ ] like i texted. her a couple times and then she just. called me. because you were feeling bad so you text.

her. yeah i mean people are telling you this. but when you're in that zone. you know if you're in a. absolute spiral everything goes into a. right blur. all i know is that i was in my house and. i was in my pants and i was i could not. stop crying and i couldn't stop worrying. about everything and my head was going. like a whirlwind like. i was worrying about stuff that wasn't. even logical like what was your brain. telling you. i can't even like i can't even describe. it like it's like.

the only way it feels like. anything in my head that could have been. a problem. was a problem have you ever had like you. know when you're you're hungover. and well like the next day i don't know. if you drink but yeah the next day right. if you have a hangover. you have this like paranoia thing like. throughout like stuff just makes you. feel a little bit edgy whispery like. yeah yeah yeah it's like that but a. million times the only way also that i. talk about it is like. it's like a paranoia and it's like.

mike your brain becomes mike tyson and. he's just beating you up. and you've not had one boxing lesson in. your life so you're just kind of like. you can't do anything you're just taking. it right and it's like you're things. like you look bad you've not done this. your tax bill's this you're this you're. this you're this you're this are you. ever gonna do this you're never gonna do. this. loads of like voices. and at that point i just said to myself. you know what i can't. i don't know what to do and the only. thing i could think about was i was okay. well just. i'll just.

you know. take my own life i'll just kill myself. that's that's how honestly how i felt. because i was like that's the only way. to stop this. and then as you said my mum called me. and uh she kept me on the phone for. about an hour because i was at my house. and i'd like in my head i was like i'll. just go to the train station and just. you know. do like you know take a jump right. between that's honestly what went. through my head and then it's like at. that point i was like okay. fine and then i speak to my mom and my. mum got there within.

an hour and we just kind of. you know what i don't even remember i. don't even remember getting there. it's a very strange place to be it's a. it's a natural. you know break they call it a mental. breakdown for a reason because i can't. your whole mind just blanks and that's. that's the same thing that i've spoken. to a lot of people that have attempted. to take their own life and they all say. the same thing. those moments that you have are. completely like. just. so. intense that your mind goes.

it implodes. and and you don't even know and that's. why a lot of men will will tell you that. when they. you know if they take it to that step. which is a huge step to to decide okay. i'm going to take my own life a lot of. men go. that was my happiest moment because i. felt like in that time i was in control. of my life. which is a really scary thought and. really sad thought. that they feel like the biggest amount. of clarity that they've ever had in. their life and the moment where they. felt at peace. was when they felt like okay i'm gonna.

do this. and everything will stop. but the problem is is that that's not. the answer. and it's really not and when i speak to. you know in the documentary i speak to. joe's mom. keep in mind this is three months after. her son has passed away and she's had to. be told that her son who she's raised. has taken his own life. she she sums it up in such an amazing. way which is kind of touching on a very. dangerous topic of selfishness. around suicide which a lot of people. don't want to talk about but it's the.

truth which is. suicide isn't necessarily a selfish act. by that person. but the problem is is that no matter. what pain that person is feeling in that. moment no matter what pain you're going. through in your head. or sadness. you do not get rid of that. by taking your own life all you are. doing is you are transferring it to. everyone around you and you are. transferring that on average 180 people. get um affected by one singular suicide.

and and that is what you are doing. and. it's just the fact you know like for two. months i absolutely hated joe i hated. him after he died i felt quite cold. because i was just like. how could you do that. i felt like i i could you leave me your. mum your dad your sister actually do. that how could you let someone find you. like do you know what i mean so it's. it's it's it's in that that you realize.

that. no matter how much that clarity is there. and you feel like you're escaping a. problem. you are passing that on to someone else. and that's what's left behind you and i. know for a fact that i know like i would. put so much money on that. if he was here right now he'd look at me. and say sorry i made a mistake. 100. so much so so much i was thinking about. that so the first thing is my business. partner also said to me he wanted he was. considering jumping in front of a train.

that's what he said to me in our private. conversations the other thing is just. this this um. it's really it's really hard for someone. who's not been through. what you're describing there what you. went through and evidently what joe went. through. to understand the. that place if you've not been there. that's this is why it's so valuable. and like i was thinking you know it must. as you kind of alluded to there you. didn't choose to for everybody to ask. you in every interview about this topic. but the the immense value that it's like.

it's doing on someone like me who's been. fortunate enough not to be in that place. who can now unders from your description. there that mike tyson description can. now understand. that. how that must feel yeah but i can't but. i can almost but the the thing is the. thing is is what's better is because you. are in a higher risk category than me. yeah i know which is [ __ ] terrified. because but now that i've spoken to you. about it yeah and that you you're not. because because that's that's the.

problem is that you know all of the guys. that i spoke to said to me they were. like. didn't think mental health was a thing. was a thing. didn't think what i was going through. was depression thought i was just. rubbish and just thought i you know i. wasn't where i wanted to be in life just. wanted that to end. that's the the realization of it you. know and again it's it's that thing of. you know it's a it's a topic that no one. really wants to talk about and is is. also why. i was so adamant. that.

the worst okay this is the worst thing. right is if you're in that state. your mate's in that state right. the last thing he wants to do is talk to. you about that. so why. is. the kind of push always. oh if you're fairly depressed you should. talk. no. that's the last thing i want to do if. anything you're going to make me revert. more. right you're going to go back more the. the pressure should be placed on us as.

friends. to to make that call and to make that. conversation happen with anyone that you. would ever suspect even if you don't. suspect it make sure. how sure are you how sure are you of the. people in your phone book or your close. friends that they're not thinking these. thoughts not sure enough but that's what. i mean so all you have to do is have. that conversation but that will take you. having that conversation i always say i. do a lot of talks for businesses about. mental health. and. um. i always leave it with you know go away.

today. choose three people in your phone book. that you speak to regularly. and. ask them ask them are they okay but do. it twice you know and that's something. that i learned from a group of lads who. had lost their mate. they they now look after each other by. asking at the beginning of the. conversation are you okay have the. conversation and then just go back to it. and be like so tell me yeah. are you okay. choose three people do that two okay. rule on them and tell me that you. haven't found something new from at. least one of those people.

it's fact right like it's so messed up. for us as a society. you know especially especially living in. living in london. like. you know which is just a horrific. but amazing place. you know. it's this beautiful you know cultural. place it's my home it's it's everything. but it is also a treadmill. and you go get on it and if you're not. on it you're you're not even in the. picture. and. that means that conversation.

switches to. what do you do how can i profit off that. and the most important thing in a. conversation should always be are you. okay. when you say to your mates hey how are. you you go yeah i'm good glaze over it. like that. why is that not the most important thing. that you ask someone. and it should be it should always be and. and that's why for guys we forget that. so you have to go oh [ __ ] okay i'll ask. it again. you know and and that is you know be i.

want people to to be the the hero to to. their friends that i know i wasn't to. mine because i know i wasn't and no. matter how many people say to me ah he. did what he did because of you know that. was his prerogative and all that sort of. stuff yeah for sure but the fact is that. if someone had this conversation with me. i probably would have brought out with. him. and i would have i know if i'd if i'd. got to the crux of it if i'd if i had. asked joe those questions if i had said. to him. are you okay if i'd done that twice if. i'd spoken to him seen how he is. i don't think i'd be here.

i don't think i'd be having this. conversation. and i want other people to understand. that it's up to us as friends. but you spoke to joe about your. struggles about me and did he ever did. he not ever reciprocate and say well. i've also been no no. but that's that's that's his that's his. thing what was he like as a guy in terms. of being a kid. was he was he a a. a guy that talked about deep topics like. you've got your friends yeah yeah was he. talked teachers. it's ridiculous like i still find it now.

ridiculous even talking about him. because it's like if if he had known. that i was out here talking about people. about him. it's odd it's odd to be able to be. speaking about one of your friends and. like i don't know it's odd but he's. someone that was the most outgoing funny. creative guy he always he cheated on. genius and idiot. constantly. um he would have the most. ridiculous ideas and at 99 of them.

you know i have 100 of them 99 would be. ridiculous and one would be incredible. and and that one incredible thing is the. thing that we'd always champion and push. forward but. he's someone that yeah like i say like. every single one of my friend grew i've. never noticed a more smiley person i've. never known someone. more happy-go-lucky more. just. happy to be there. and. that's why i say. if that can happen to him.

best believe it can happen to anyone. else. did anybody ever find out. what got him to that place or any any. did he not leave him. no. again this is another thing is hollywood. would make us believe that people leave. notes yeah they're not over 90. don't. and and never know. and and that's why it's just a it's a. horrible horrible harsh thing. and it's it's so. final.

that's the that's the problem is it's so. final also another thing is you know. girls can't be taken out of this. conversation as well because. when i i worked with the nottinghamshire. um. street triage team who are an incredible. team of people that are. police and mental health expert that go. out on calls together. so be a mental health nurse right with. with a police officer and they will. respond to. a mental health crisis right so someone. trying to take their own life etc. and i said to them i was like oh you.

know i went there like. in the mode of like oh yeah so it must. all be guys that you speak to and then. we're like no actually it's around 90 of. our calls are women. having mental struggles. or trying to take their own life. and then you look at the data and you're. like why does that make sense but the. problem is is that us as men being. men we choose more final methods in. terms of. how to end that pain. and that's the unfortunate reality of it. you made that documentary it was i mean.

it was it was everywhere and everybody. was talking about it yeah really really. far-reaching in fact i know that the. amount of people calling suicide and. sort of mental health um support lines. shot up drastically so it was amazing. it's like 700 percent or something crazy. like that yeah 720. um. but with that. you then carry this. i guess this like social you you become. the ambassador for something right i do. not want to be the ambassador for it but.

that's how life is now. and the only reason why i'll go out. there and do it is because of joe's. family genuinely. like. it's not easy right talking about that. no it's not like i'll give you examples. like. you know. i'll go to parties now and you like the. main thing that like lads lads will come. up to me and talk to me about is how how. they feel. which is nice in a way. but it's a lot it's a lot yeah i won't.

like that it's a lot it's a lot like. like there are days where i i don't want. to talk about i have people like again. like i'll be out for dinner or something. like that and someone will come up to. you and say oh my god that documentary. blah blah blah i wasn't thinking about. mommy taking his own life but now i'm. thinking about it. do you know what i mean but that is life. like that that's always how it is and. and the only way that i can kind of get. around that. is by. you know you can tell them but by the. way that i talk about it i'm still. passionate about it you know because. i've been scarred by. i've got such trauma attached to.

suicide and and mental health and that's. a trauma that i'll always have you know. that when when you look for things. you know one of the questions i've asked. you know other people. you know that have been through what. i've been through. i said to them when does it get better. and and their reply is. it doesn't you just learn to deal with. it a little bit better. do you know what i mean like it you just. learn a different technique to stop. thinking about it. and. you know that will be with me forever.

i'll tell my kids about joe you know. i'll be bang on top of my kids is mental. health you know what's going on with him. but again i just think it's. throughout all of this. you know as you say. being a part and having these. conversations now. is is crazy. and weird. do you still feel a bit of anger. sometimes towards. joe for doing that. um. yeah every now and again.

every now and again that's normal yeah. you know it it's normal every now and. again i'll be like. every now and again it's more so like me. and my mates will have a story. and we'll laugh and then at the end of. it we'll go. like. why mate come on like because i know. like i know that if he was there what. he'd say to me yeah i can hear it clear. as day. he'd say i'm sorry mate i made a mistake. and and that that's what's so sad and.

it's like i know that whatever it is. that he was going through it ain't worth. and it never is worth no matter what. anyone's going through is that this this. this is not an option. it's not an option. i've i'm mistaken because i can't. remember her name so please forgive me. if she ever hears this or friends of her. ever hear this um. there was a mum that that recently um. got the wording changed around um the. phrase commit suicide. so now that that is not a phrase that. should necessarily be said so it's.

always you would refer to it as take. take your own life. because to commit suicide is actually an. illegal act. and therefore a lot of young a lot of. parents were left with a child who if. they had written it down that they'd. done that that they would go down. essentially as a criminal a criminal. because you're committing an illegal act. um. so that phrasing has gone now which is. quite nice is a nice thing. um. but you know. suicide is still such a weird thing that.

people don't want to talk about but yet. is the biggest thing you think how much. think how many cancer adverts think. about testicular cancer adverts you see. on a daily basis now. put that together with how many male. suicide adverts do you see. you don't it. how have you. found being in the public spotlight you. talked a little bit about there about. like people coming up to you at dinners. and parties and stuff yeah yeah like. when you're in the spotlight anyway. people come up to you and just say oh i. love your thing yeah right but now. they're coming up and saying how have.

you found all of that. in terms of the the dark the dark blue. just generally i mean in general mate. like to be totally honest i don't know. any different yeah genuinely because i. like. it for me it was uh. it's like. in the same way that i could say to you. how is it. in that bit how is it hitting puberty. it's like you'd seen people above you go. through that so you kind of knew what to. expect oh okay and you kind of dealt. with it do you know what i mean whereas. like for me because i was.

people coming up to me now saying oh can. i get a picture and if i'm with a mate i. have to say to them. can you hold the phone and you know take. the picture. i was that person oh right holding the. phone half my life yeah you know so. it just it's always been always been. there any time i was a kid any any time. i was a kid walking into a pub going to. a football match walking into a. restaurant. anywhere i clocked people looking at my. dad. or my mom did you understand that they. were. like famous yeah mate loved it yeah i.

loved it loved it like like put it this. way my sister was always my sister was. always. really shy my sister was always really. shy of it and my dad always tells a. story where he said it was a. show-and-tell. at school. and um i must have been about. six my dad was in eastenders you just. joined eastenders and um. his character name was steve owen in. eastenders right and um. and it was a big thing that he was in. there.

and. the firemen came to school like to show. the fire truck and to you know show how. this is our equipment and all that type. of stuff. and they said any questions. and my dad and my mum said i put my hand. up. and said you may think that's cool but. my dad's steve. owen so i've always i've always been. insanely proud of my parents you know. like and and you know i credit them for. you know my dad has always been very. patient with everyone and in terms of. like. people wanting pictures or stuff like.

that he always does it too yeah he. always does it but he taught me. something else which you know we had a. little bit of a chat about this before. but. he's never let me take pictures with. people. ever and i don't do that and i always. get i get told off about it because. people are like oh if you're hanging out. with this person you take a picture oh. so if you yeah so if you want to take a. photo with like justin bieber then he's. not gonna yeah even footballers right. like when i was a kid all i wanted was. was like you know take picture if i met. football i would want to take a picture. and he was like nah. enjoy that moment with you and that. person the picture is nothing you you.

know it's great gratification for. someone else to see it he goes that you. should enjoy that moment live it with. your eyes and and and speak to them and. if you really want to you know make a. moment in that person's life go up to. them and say you know you know what i. really really like your work i really. appreciate what you've done i really. like this that goes so much further. than you know if someone came up to me. and said i just want to let you know. that i've really liked what you did that. means so much more than anyone's running. up to you and going. get a picture take a picture run off.

yeah yeah you know if someone came up to. and said mate i really love your podcast. i really love you know everything you've. done the business the businesses that. you've created means so much more yeah. um someone was pleased about that so. yeah so so fame in terms of for me has. always kind of been um there's pros and. cons to. our jobs now. fame is a con. is a is a bad part of it. the good part is that we get to do fun. stuff. interesting. you the good part is you get to speak to.

interesting people yeah sat here. the the con is that when you're out for. dinner someone may have watched that. conversation yeah and want to interrupt. you yeah and talk to you about it yeah. i went to i was went to the like united. away game the other day and i always get. it in some certain places so like. whenever there's a younger demographic. dragons is going to change that i was. talking to my team this week because. yeah like bbc one's a slightly more. parenty audience really change that. you'll see that so when i'm in my when. i'm at old trafford in the like gallery. area which is all probably a little bit.

older people yeah no one bothers me. forgotten if i go to an away day. honestly last week someone had their arm. around me the whole game i love you. share me on his phone i love your. podcast yeah and i'm if he's going to. watch the game yeah come on he's out and. he's and you know anything yeah yeah. yeah i'm wearing a [ __ ] hoodie and. like. you know but yeah but that's why. it was a good thing in that sense yeah. it was a really good thing no it's. actually a conversation i started having. and you've experienced this much more. than i have which is just. i. will there become a point where i become.

more of an introvert and don't want to. go to places because of the amount of. people that are like it's exhausting. right and i don't want to be i'll never. be an [ __ ] i know that for sure i'll. never say. it's tiring right it's tiring. for sure but naturally that will happen. because your life changes like you're. going to be on a tv show that is watched. by millions of people like like this is. that's. you know it's what my dad what my dad. always says you know and that's you know. that's why he always says to me you. can't you know people that get angry at.

fans or whatever and like you know or. rude to people you can't put your head. above the parapet not expect to get hit. yeah you know what i mean like how can. you do that like. you're choosing to to go on a show that. is watched by millions of people yeah so. therefore if you go out you need to be. more careful you need to you know like. you know. understand that that people are going to. want certain things and that's fine but. that's just that's just the world. quick one as many of you know i've been. trying to make my life a little bit more. sustainable as it relates to energy ever. since i sold my range over sport and.

bought an electric bicycle and my energy. as a sponsor of this podcast is one of. the brands that make that transition. much much easier they are at the. forefront of british renewable ecosmart. technology and their products are really. really changing the game if you're on. youtube you can see what i'm holding in. my hand this is called the eddie right. it's the uk's number one solar powered. diverter so what is a solar diverter. it's a device for people like you and me. that means you can divert your excess.

energy back into your home rather than. back into the grid which will save you. power and money it's super user friendly. and easy to install and you can control. it using the my energy app on your phone. to find out more about this product and. more products like it that will help you. make that sustainable transition head. over to myenergy.com and um i highly. recommend you check out the eddie it's. um it's a real game changer for a. product and one that i'm going to be. installing in my home soon. you've met a lot of very um. famous supers mega stars and you've.

parted with a lot of them and been very. close to a lot of them i've been reading. some of the stories about justin bieber. when you look at some of these people. yeah that have been wildly successful. yep. what what have you noticed about like. their happiness and like the ones that. are happy the ones that you think oh god. i'm concerned for this one what is the. what's your general observation these. really happy people. honestly i think it's it's all about. it's all about the values it's always. about what are they doing it for. you know and.

and. the family life. you know there's there's people that. what i always find so interesting is is. i think one of the reasons why i'm able. to again. do the job that i do and speak to. those people who are on such higher. pedestals. it's because you've got to remember that. i've grown up with a with a godfather. who is. or was. and still to this day one of the most. famous singers. ever in george michael. and. growing up with george i saw very.

quickly that the more famous you get it. does not become more fun. it doesn't. you don't know who's your friends you. don't know those types of things and i. think that. that can lead people to. be into a bit of a troubled situation. you know you get approached by. so you don't have a good core friend. group like a big core friend group. that could lead to everyone around you. being yes men. that just want to be on the payroll that. will do something because. they think that it will help in their. career and those types of things.

i'm uber fortunate i've got a really. nice friend group and the artist that i. know. you know speaking from a music music. background the artist that i know that. have those incredible friend groups are. just amazing people like ed sheeran. yeah it is incred like but ed's values. are so correct you know and his his. parents are lovely people as well in. terms of you know. the pleasure of you know having dinner. with his dad and stuff like that. [Music]. they. they're just people that.

understand that this is just fun the. creativeness is just the fun you know. all the fame and those types of things. are just a side note you know ed ed does. everything he does now i'm sure because. he's he's so family orientated and. that's so important you know he's. married to cherry who's his childhood. sweetheart you know. give me another example it's like. not a horrendous one my good mates. niall's friend group is all his. friend group from. young school. young. and they will kill him like in like.

conversations or like i mean his cousins. will rip him to shreds and all those. types of things and all it does is just. ground him constantly. and and it's that grounding nature that. if you don't have that within this world. or that world. you're gonna struggle. justin for instance was someone that was. taken at like nine he didn't have a. chance to to build a proper friend group. didn't even have a chance. and so you worry for people like that. because you know that's why you know he. he's now found faith and that's his.

thing and and. that is his. grounding. moment in his life and his wife of. course she's uh exactly she seems to be. a good actor that's what i mean so it's. you know for him he has those things. for me is those core group of cool. grouper mates. and you must meet a couple that you're a. bit concerned about in terms of always. because i've met a couple of you know. famous people and i thought [ __ ] oh. they're not happy no you know 100 uh. could you feel it when you meet them. with their energy and then all the time. instantly. there's there's a few people that.

you know i don't even know that well and. i've ended up having to reach out to. because i feel like. i probably should. and. it's sad it's a really sad like. sometimes it can be a sad existence. money can make you feel amazing 100 it. can buy happiness but that happiness can. run out like that's the thing as quickly. as your bank balance can run out that. happiness can run out like. and. people struggle like people really. really struggle and it's and this is.

again this is another thing what what i. learned with making the doc about. suicide and talking about you know. mental health was. the first thing i saw when um. when people. uh. heard like press release came out saying. that i was doing a documentary about. suicide. or twitter was like. what what does a celebrity kid know. about struggling and. mental health and these types of things. but the thing is is that it's all you. know those struggles that you see.

artists going through or you know. addiction problems or those types of. things. it's all just. it's only relevant to what their life is. you know those problems the problem that. someone in a lower class system has in. their head. will be just as high as someone in a. upper class system because. it's just. relevant to the circumstance. and it's big in their head and that's. what people have to understand is that. no matter what the problem is you know. people say oh it's a. an awful class problem or whatever.

like. they like first world problem that's. what people say right. it's not that that's not to be looked at. it's it's just something that that's. what's affecting you. and you don't wear a uniform for. depression there isn't a. job title for depression yeah. you know one of the things you said at. the start this conversation was about um. one of the expectations that you do feel. a bit of a bit of pressure to me is the. one in. your sort of romantic life right yeah. i've struggled with that for a long time. i've got to be honest yeah struggled.

with their girlfriend's dating all that. stuff tinder all of the way that people. date in the modern age and just like. finding good people and really putting. the effort in because i can't be. bothered with the small talk yeah yeah. yeah so tell me about that are you a. single man right now i'm single right. now yes yeah i just to be honest it's. it's like. my my one thing that i struggle with and. i've i've had girlfriends that. you know in the past where i've i've. i've been an absolute [ __ ] and of. course like do you know what i mean like. and i've let work get in the way i've. let that lifestyle kind of get in the.

way but the one thing i know is that. i. i want. that. relationship i see my mom and dad have i. want that like more than anything you. know and i just. i think the thing that i panic about. more is. you know it's it's an odd thing but it's. like like for me. i think it's an insecurity that a lot of. men have that never talk about as well. which is. will i be able to have kids when i'm. older people never talk about that but. like i never hear any of my talk about.

that but i'm always like oh that's my. biggest fear someone says what's your. biggest fear that. because i think that my sole purpose on. this life is is just to make other. people that are nice. like that's how i feel so you know for. me is i'm such a family person. i feel like at this point in time i. worry that if i got into something would. i be able to give that person what they. deserve in terms of being a partner. because i am. work focused and i do like i'm enjoying. my life right now i'm enjoying doing.

what i'm doing and i don't want to like. defer from that have you struggled when. you're in a relationship and if so what. is the what is the in your sort of. self-aware opinion what is the reason. why you struggle in relationships um i. struggled in relationships in the past. and i still will struggle now going. forward because i always have this. massive fear that there is resentment. on. my future partners. part i mean i i never i couldn't be with. someone that. doesn't. really work or do those things because.

i'd be so scared that they'd look at me. and think oh well it's fine for him. because he can. get this or afford this or do this and. this and this do you know what i mean i. always try my best to to make sure that. i'm with someone that i can raise up as. much as people on the outside raise me. up you know because that's that's a. horrible thing that i see so much and. look i go through it even now like you. know people come up to me and they go oh. my god your dad is such an amazing. person blah blah blah do you ever think. about you with your dad and with you. with your dad and all this type of stuff. and i'm like my mom is wicked like do.

you know what i mean and that i think. that worry that i always had with my mom. and i always felt like i had to stand up. for my mom and be like hang on she. played at live aid as well do you know. what i mean she had a number one record. as well. i always feel like i worry that you know. about that in a partner and i want to. always make sure that a partner knows. that that no matter how many people are. coming up to me and saying oh you know. you're doing really well doing very well. i'll always be there and say yeah but. she's doing this. that's so interesting you know what i. mean.

you know what i i don't because i've not. i've not been through that yeah but. that's that's what i mean that's that's. the thing that i think is so important i. see so many [ __ ] people. like and i've seen it my whole life. right. the celebrities that you they introduce. themselves to you or you you speak to. them and their partner just stands there. and they don't even introduce them to. you and you must have seen that growing. up because that that feels like it's. very front of mind for you whereas like. yeah yeah for sure people just don't. want to talk about that but it's like. you know it's a partnership you know my. that's always obviously my dad and my.

mum now. fine but like. i don't want that i don't want my. partner to feel like everyone just wants. to talk to roman. i don't want that like i i really don't. and people and or for my partner to. think. what i do isn't as good as what he does. or doesn't earn as much money as what he. does or doesn't you know get as much. gratification as he does does that mean. that you go for. no it means that like i i i have i love. like women that have their. you know life going on or like are busy.

or those sort of things that attracts me. more than anything. you know you look at the girls that i've. dated in the past that they're girls are. doing their own thing and they're. looking good at it like and you know and. it's one of the reasons to be totally. honest with you it's one of the reasons. why i don't really say english girls. ever i love someone not knowing what i. do for a living i love someone not. caring at all if i was to ask one of. your your two last exes if i said why. did your relationship with roman end. what do you reckon they'd say. um.

two focus on work too focused on what. he's doing. um. i'd say that. that's interesting i i was that guy for. a long time maybe stalam yeah but there. but there's nothing wrong with being. that and that's that's what i have to. learn there's nothing wrong with being. up because if if you are happy in your. life if if you are. you know getting that fulfillment which. i feel like i am. then that's okay. there's a time for everything yeah i i. see it for me it was like a chapter so. there was a phase of my life where i was.

very very very selfish but i always. wanted romantic connection in a. relationship i started to actually learn. the importance of it studying some stuff. and seeing that men that had a romantic. partner for their lives were lived like. several years longer got ill way less. and i was thinking okay maybe having a. relationship business is equally. important as just making millions of. pounds. and then i started to feel i don't know. you get older you've had a lot of sex. with a lot of people that you just can't. remember yeah and you thought well that. wasn't it that didn't feel yeah the day. after so. okay this is more substantive to have a.

meaningful relationship and then. i've started to realize that okay this. is only ever going to work if i. compromise a little bit sometimes. and also find someone worth compromising. for yeah but a relationship is all about. a compromise yes that's it. it's always about compromise and it's. about finding someone that is your best. friend not not about you know someone. that you just find really fair are you. compromising do you think. um. at the minute i'm not because i i i feel.

like at this moment in time and i'll be. totally honest with you. after. um. after i lost joe after joe did i i kind. of got in this mindset where i was like. you know what i just need to live my. life i just need to do what i want to do. and not feel like if i i didn't. personally i didn't want to get into a. relationship because i felt like some of. my. relationships or some of the moments. that i've been with people i feel like. i've wasted my time yeah and i can't not. feel like that so many people so many. girls feel like that about guys that. they've made i'm sure that this is this. podcast. and and i felt like that too and i felt.

like you know what why was i. trying to compromise when i need to. enjoy myself a little bit you know and. find that kind of happiness and i firmly. believe that that time will come i'm. definitely a relationship person 100. yeah but and you know i believe that. time will come but right now i just know. that. it's more so in my head it's like. i know that i could get into seeing. someone or whatever but i just know that. it'll reach a point where i can't give. them what they deserve and a girl. doesn't deserve to have someone that.

might be too tired that day to even text. them yeah yeah do you know what i mean. yeah yeah like and i'm someone that. likes my own space so it's hard so. looking forward to the future then one. of the things you said earlier was that. you are the type of guy that like knocks. on the door of your boss's office and. says listen i want that show this is. what i want. so tell me what it is that you want. looking forward professionally in your. in your future. my my. as to where i am right now i'm very. happy where i am right now.

like very happy. therefore i'm not urging myself to to. knock on any doors genuinely. there are things that i feel passionate. about which i really feel like i'm going. to make this and i want to make this. going back to you know. schools and mental health which i think. is a really important thing and i have a. platform and. to be able to do it so. i will do that. i think the common question i always get. asked is. oh yeah so what's the next step tv and. it's like. no.

it's i'm 28 years old and and i've got. in my opinion the best job. in the uk i get to wake up every day and. and. feel like i'm back at school. waking people up every day. that time will come that pressure that. i'll put on myself to go and find the. next thing or to think about where i. want to move next will come later on. right now i'm in a genuine position. where i love what i do i get up at 3. o'clock but second i'm there i'm happy.

and and enjoying it. and i don't feel like. you know we spoke about this earlier on. as a. as a presenter like if i came out a. radio tomorrow. i'd be worried i'd be thinking oh [ __ ]. have i been on tv enough this month have. i have i tweeted enough have i done. instagram enough like. i i love the fact that my job now i. don't have to think about that. i don't have to post on instagram if i. don't want to because i've just spoken. to seven million people that week.

do you know what i mean and and been. with them through a journey every single. day the pandemic was an amazing thing. like in terms of. i remember i had two weeks. two weeks holiday in april. 2020. and i was going to take it. and my dad called me he was like you. can't. i was what do you mean you can't go on. holiday he was like this is this is like. the most important time. that you will ever have. to. to to you know.

be with people and go through this with. them you can't just walk away they're. relying on you to do that this is your. responsibility to do it you actually got. quite angry because it was just like. that is your responsibility to do that. to provide some form of normality for. those people. and um. and so i did and you know throughout the. pandemic it was you just we created. these relationships with people that are. working you realize how much radio means. and you. you create friendships with listeners. and with people up and down the country. that you meet.

and that to be able to go in every day. and so it's my job is an amazing thing. and i really truly genuinely love it. in the spirit of one of the things you. said to me during this conversation. now that we've been talking for a little. while i feel like i have to ask you yeah. how are you doing. i'm doing all right i'm doing all right. there are bad days there are bad days. where you know you kind of. you kind of think you know did i really. want to be in talking about. suicide do i really want to be going.

over a trauma that's in my head. you know do i. want to sack in the whole job and and. just i've got enough money now to live a. knife nice little life somewhere quiet. and just go and do that. but. i think. those are all kind of moments in my life. that are you know moving forward and. like you said like i think. there's so much. more life for me to learn i think that i. am happy if i think about it i am happy.

i'm i'm proud of the things that i've. achieved. you know. little things little things that i've. achieved you know whenever people ask me. what am i gonna do in five years i'd. rather say to them well this is what i. did five years ago. the last five years would look pretty. decent so i'm comfortable in my. you know ability moving forward. you know. i think that. i'm definitely tired which is one thing. always tired what do you mean by that. always like tired in a physical fatigued.

way okay which getting up at 4 30 will. do to you. um. but no i'm okay as i said. there's updates and there's down days. but. those down days i'm pleased as well that. i've got a good core friend group around. me i'm glad that i've got my parents. around me i'm glad that. i've gone out there and i've taught. myself the tools that i need to go and. fight mike tyson in there and be able to. go up against him. and. that's why i feel passionate to be able. to go and do that for kids now.

we have a closing tradition oh yeah. each guest that comes on the podcast. writes a question for the next guest. inside of the diary of a ceo so um. okay. how could you be more authentically. you. uh by being off my phone. i'd say. and i mean that just because when i did. i'm a celebrity get me out of here.

that was. the happiest i've ever been. easily. in in there i was row which is what my. friends know me as. that was me. like. this here. is someone who. has to work has to do all these types of. things and and that and has all these. other sides but there i didn't have any. phone no expectation no nothing i.

completely forgot the cameras were on. you all those types of situations. so so. for sure the more i can. stop working and enjoy moments without. work that's how i could be more. authentic than me. interesting. thank you so much honestly roman you. know um. you know i. the amount of um. the amount of value that your. openness to do what you're doing and i. see it as you are like doing a service.

for society. and especially because of the. the. horrific nature of the statistics. surrounding like mental health and. suicide i can't tell you even for me. what this conversation has done in terms. of opening my eyes yeah and like i know. like so i just i guess what i want to do. is i just wanted to thank you because i. also. i don't envy and i'm going to be honest. i don't envy the position of people. coming up to me all the time and talking. about a topic like that yeah i find it. hard just even now people talk to me. about oh here's my business idea. yeah yeah yeah i'm sure and sometimes i.

open my dms and i'm having a good day. working out and then i'll see a message. which is very which is of a similar vein. which is. very very tragic and it will just push. me off a little bit yeah so for you to. to choose knowingly to put yourself in. the position. of being a. involuntary advocate like the ambassador. of this this topic. is such a selfish do you find it hard. saying suicide. you do. there's a little part of you that's not. yourself.

it's so weird it's not a swear word when. i first did the documentary when i first. did the documentary sorry to cut your. phone no you know. please please continue afterwards tell. me how great i am but but but when i. first started making the documentary i. felt like. you know. we're going to talk about today we're. going to talk about. it's weird but it's it's a normal word. it's it's life it again it's the biggest. killer for in men our age like suicide. is a very normal word it makes you feel. uncomfortable doesn't it yes.

and that's what has to stop. but i just could see in your eye there. yeah i was thinking about these dm's and. i'm thinking i'm an ambassador. suicide sounds you're not suicide it. sounds like it's a really. emotional word yeah so with emotional. words we tend to you know use them. sparingly yeah but i was just intrigued. because it is something that i. had let me finish off just. no but i genuinely mean that from the. heart like it's it's what you're doing. as i said i don't envy it's not easy but.

the. tremendous i think service it's doing to. society at a time when we need it the. most and we need people that are willing. to to have those conversations and be. honest because a lot of men are are. still caged is it's like impossible to. quantify i don't think you'll ever get. to see the good you do but i just want. you to know from my perspective and just. on me personally from seeing that. documentary that oh god if i can't think. of many greater goods that someone can. do for men in this day and age so thank. you as a man but as just as a citizen of. society as well thank you well i very. much appreciate that and thank you uh.

for forever being on your podcast thank. you so much from roman appreciate it. [Music]. oh. [Music].