Rochelle Humes: Learning To Be At Peace With Uncertainty | E118

i just got to a point where i thought. it's time to empower myself and you know. what some of this is your fault because. you've said something you'd met someone. yeah you spoke to i can't 51. that. it's been my life. and i accept it like you say acceptance. actually can be a beautiful thing and it. can be a liberating thing to think. i'm not. holding on to something that i can't. change. so first of all the conversation was. well done i didn't know about this.

and then overnight the doll turned that. that definitely was. like. do you know what actually i was scared. of taking my kid to nursery that day. because i got death threats. quick one can you do me a favor if. you're listening to this and hit the. subscribe button the follow button. wherever you're listening to this. podcast thank you so much michelle humes. once upon a time she was a member of the. saturdays one of the most famous uk girl. bands that has ever risen from this. country.

but since then she's become so much more. she is a mother she is a fearless. entrepreneur and honestly she is one of. the most pleasant wonderful. authentic guests i've ever had on this. podcast. and i can see why after having this. conversation with her she's built this. huge engaged community behind her online. and i think you're going to see that too. she's inspiring she is wise she is. resilient but she's also. just unbelievably real.

and today we talk about something she's. never addressed before the moment where. she was nearly cancelled unanswered. questions from her childhood and also. the all-consuming side of starting and. running a business that people just. never talk about. the difficult times the rejection the. struggle with work-life balance. and in her words. how she's just winging it anyway. and i kind of think we are all just.

winging it. so without further ado i'm stephen. bartlett and this is the diary of a ceo. i hope nobody's listening but if you are. then please keep this to yourself. [Music]. just me and mama i was reading um about. the start of your life and going through. multiple interviews and that phrase kept. coming up. just me and mum. why was it just you and mum. it was just me and mum because that's.

sort of how my childhood looked my mum. and. my dad split officially when i was a. tiny. probably my son's age probably maybe one. just short of one. and then. that was sort of it really so that sort. of. i had contact with my dad for a little. burst of time but it was never anything. solid. and then the contact. stopped all together so yeah that.

i suppose i actually it's funny that you. point that out because i didn't realize. how much i say that but it just me and. mum is probably something that. i have said a lot you're right. i am i had a. a relative show up one day when i was. maybe 12 right and they claimed to be my. uncle they just walked into the shop and. they claimed to be my uncle and they. presented evidence which was really. compelling they were my uncle they. strolled in. and um they spoke to my dad and they. said i'm your brother and they looked at. me and said i'm your uncle and it was a.

really bizarre point in my life because. although we believed them and they had. evidence to prove that they were there. was no relationship there and i i read. that you went in search of your dad to. just to find out who he was and what was. going on at some point in your life can. you tell me how that interaction was and. what you what you felt yeah i think. my mum did very well uh at. not sort of discrediting my dad over the. years so she would kind of make a lot of. excuse well now i'm an adult and i'm a. parent right i know that she was.

obviously. covering his ass constantly and making a. lot of excuses and dressing it up in a. way that i suppose that at the time i. could handle as a as a kid but you're. always going to have that level of. curiosity. in life when i had my own children. i weirdly became less curious. which is weird right. because i had my own kids and i suppose. i've always thought oh yeah he's my dad. and.

oh he's not been around i don't really. know him but he's my and i sort of. held hope. but then i had my own children. and i saw what being a dad was from my. husband. and i knew what being even not being a. dad was being a parent was because i was. then. a parent and besotted and in love and. lived live my life for my kids. so i think the respect. was here. but it was in the basement when i had my. own you know because.

i my outlook was then like okay now i. really don't understand the way that you. don't want to be a part of your child's. life you know for some people that. changes they have their own kids and. then i'd like them to know their. grandparents or i'd like them and i. thought. my biggest thing in life is to protect. these little ones. i know how flaky you were for me. there's no way that i'd have them sat by. the window saying is granddad coming to. get me because i can protect i've got. control over that. i'm not against it i'd be open.

but it's not something that i would seek. now and there was that day that you got. a chance to meet him yeah and what did. you find out that day. about him or why he wasn't present or. well i didn't really i didn't find out. anything. my mom had always told me this story. that sort of went like. bless her and this is what now i'm a. parent i'm like she was so thinking on. the spot but it's something that stuck. with me. she said.

some some. daddies aren't very good at looking. after little girls because they would. look after little boy it's easier for. them to look after little boys and she. must have literally been doing the. washing and i've said why don't i just. you know. i like because at that time i i knew. that he had a son. fast forward to have many years later i. realized that you also had two daughters. so that sort of my mum was like. but at that point i was old enough to. like. realize that you know.

he it just he had a new set up and i. just didn't slot into that i'm super. naive to the situation because i don't. know what it's like it's important to. say that so everything you talk about or. assume of the situation comes from a. place of like total naivety um. like if i'm if i met my dad and he. wasn't around i would assume i would. just like ask him the [ __ ] question. like where the [ __ ] have you been like. yeah. i know and can i just tell you with. everything else in my life. i am i mean ask anybody that knows me. the most direct person but there's just.

this. like. i can't even. articulate it enough like there's this. weird. it's been my life right and i've got to. this point and i still don't know the. answer but i know the person that i want. the answers from isn't the person that's. going to give me the honest answer so i. just don't waste my own time because. time is something that we don't have. enough of so i'm at that place so it's. not that i'm like. i'm not scared to know the truth i'm not. like i'm just not in desperate need for.

it because i know that that it's not. gonna be. a real picture of what happened and i'm. too old and i'm too wise to believe. [ __ ] so i think. that's where i am with it. there's something really powerful and. beautiful about acceptance in situations. like yeah. it seems that most of our unhappiness or. frustration comes from the lack of. acceptance not getting to the point. where we need the answer and we need. someone to blame well you need to be. like i'm not gonna be me having a.

conversation with my father now at 32. years of age with three kids of my own. with a husband with my own career my own. life. me having a conversation and him saying. to me. oh. it didn't work out with your mum and i. and this i don't know what he would say. this is me thinking of an answer. me having that conversation i'm actually. not going to get anything out of it. that's genuinely how i feel there's not. anything he would be able to say to me. that could change the fact that he. didn't come to watch my nativity play or.

he didn't do put in that ground. so really. i don't. need a dad at my age now. because i have my own family set up and. i'm secure. so i'm not seeking that because it's. something i've never had do you forgive. him for his absence. yeah i think i do i don't i'm like that. as a person i don't hold on and i think. if there was something in life that i. would hold on to it'd be something like. this right. because i would have the right to but i.

don't and i think had you have asked me. at 18. i'd i would have i would have been like. i will never forget that man for not. being around for me but i just know what. it is. i know what i'm gonna get if i had. contact with him. and i accept it like you say acceptance. actually can be a beautiful thing and it. can be a liberating thing to think. i'm not. holding on to something that i can't. change it's done it's in the past it is. what it is.

there's a quote that i read one day on. and it really stuck with me and it kind. of speaks to what you're saying there. which is um um. forgiveness but i guess acceptance as. well is letting a prisoner go and. realizing that you were the prisoner the. whole time so. you were holding on to a weight which. wasn't going to ever serve you but you. you thought it was in service of revenge. or victory i'll win if i hold on to this. grudge or this bitterness but in fact. it's like poison in your own chalice. honestly i couldn't. like i have.

friends that they're. they are back to a t. and i think you have literally. you're you are stopping your future and. the rest of your life because you're. holding on to something that. first of all no one even knows what it. is when it's been that long like like. what is this all about and you're but. you're the person that remains unhappy. because you're. you're going through life with a side of. your brain that's focused on the fact. that well no because they've done me. wrong yeah they did you're doing.

yourself wrong yeah amen it's like yeah. it's exhausting and that's just not me. as a person like. on to the next and that's just me that's. that's always been my mentality so you. on that day when you you discovered his. his other life his his life as it is you. also discovered um two. is it half sisters is that what it's. called i have no idea i don't even know. what an uncle is these days but yeah. yeah so yeah i suppose technically. they're half yeah we share the same. father but not the same mother yeah um.

two sisters and a brother okay yeah. so i you're right i knew i had the. brother i didn't know that he had. daughters but obviously. they were young so they came with him. and we we just. weren't going to see eye to eye he just. wasn't. consistent. and that was just the you know. a continuous pattern. so then it sort of the contact dwindled. again to near or nothing.

well nothing. and. then fast forward to. about 11 12 years later. i was at a christmas due at my then. agents. and they had just taken on. one of the guys from love island kemp. who is a lovely lovely guy. and. i obviously you know prosecco's hit. mom's got a night off have her having a. lovely evening.

he randomly come up to me i've never met. him before prior to this never met him. i was like nice to meet you and he was. asking me about the management and was. like do you enjoy and i'm like yeah. they're going to be great for you good. luck with everything. and then i could feel that he wanted to. approach me and say something and the. night's gone on. and you know maybe a couple of cocktails. later he comes up to me and he's like. look. okay so this is really weird but i went. to school with your sister. i was like right okay really she never.

said thinking the sister that i grew up. with. and he's like no. so on your dad's side. and he said i always said to her because. she was a really good friend if ever i. bump into your sister. i'm going to give her your number. and i lit can i just tell you. i was twisted. i sobered up within a second i was like. sorry what. and he said look can i just message her. now and it all just happened so quickly. he whatsapped her and was like i'm with.

your sister a christmas party can i give. give her your number she was like please. the next thing i had. her number saved in my phone. the next day. i. sent her a message. we had arranged to meet later on that. week. with all of them so. so the two sisters the brother. so i was like okay this is great like. and i told my mum and and then it got to.

thursday night and i promised you i had. the worst time like i was so nervous. i said marv i don't know if i can do. this i don't know if i can go like this. is. so i made him come with me really. so he came because i was like the three. of them are together they've grown up. with each other they know each other. like i feel really i don't know why i. just felt really vulnerable about the. whole thing. so yeah we went for dinner we it was. like. marv said it was really weird for him to. witness. because he was like i just felt like.

it was the norm. and it was weird like i was like my. brother going you look like my eldest. daughter like you know just jeans are. really mad and like she's super tall so. i'm like she must get her height from. you it was just a really weird thing and. marvin was just like in the kind of way. homie was like i was just staring at. them all because you are all. so similar and. it's that weird like nature and nurture. thing isn't it like we are just so. similar mannerisms everything.

and then from that day. we like talk every single day. i can't remember a time when i wasn't. in my life isn't that a gift. it really is and that's what i mean when. i speak of not holding on to. resentment not not holding on to because. you know me thinking oh well that's. lovely for them they live the life with. my with my dad and they seem to get the. attention and not holding on to things. that you actually don't know too much. about like. not holding on to those feelings of.

anger towards. the fact that he wasn't around for me. because if i'd held on to that i. wouldn't have gone i met them for dinner. and struck up that relationship and i. wouldn't have real key players that are. in my corner now in my life and people. that i adore but that comes of age. as i said the younger me i've read. something on instagram that said i'm so. proud of how the older me and situations. that the younger me just wouldn't have. entertained and that is the key. of just not holding on to stuff that you.

think you have to. because actually there is always a light. at the end of that tunnel and. my light is them and the siblings that i. didn't have around me that are now. everything to me you know. i've always contended with that with. um especially growing up with this idea. that i i assumed my family should be and. look perfect yeah and we go through so. much um like self-harm trying to make. our family as we see it in like. the movies.

like home like i just need them to be. like this and act like this and so much. despair and misery when they fail to. meet that expectation and i i think. there's not enough people talking about. the fact that like. by the way your family don't get like a. free pass into your life you don't have. to fight forever to make the setup. perfect in fact you end up harming. yourself more than you gain from trying. to achieve that and i definitely noticed. that in my life so with me at some point. when i got a little bit older and maybe. a bit more secure i realized that like.

just like everything else in my life. that too has to serve me. you don't get a free pass. like if you're going to be toxic and. you're going to be an [ __ ] to me. goodbye [ __ ] like i don't care. if we have the same you know i mean and. yeah that's not a narrative people talk. about enough so i was really. yeah and i think and i think for me i. definitely grew up. i grew up with the sort of. i don't want to say embarrassment. because i'm not sure if that is the. right word i suppose as a kid maybe it. was but. my family didn't look like everybody.

else's so i knew i was very aware like i. knew my grandparents god dress. themselves. um from my dad's side but i grew up in a. white family. felt like i'd constantly have to explain. that my sister. didn't look like my sister but we were. sisters and you know she'd be the last. person in the room that you'd say that. was my sister because we don't look. anything alike. and. you know i was aware that i then had. a side of my family my black side that. i wasn't around and but i would but that.

was still a big part of my life that. and i was very aware of how that looked. and i knew that i had siblings. that looked like me but my family was. just a bit of a big messy picture but. like with so much love like i had the. best upbringing my mum did. everything by me to raise me in the. right way and. she did a phenomenal job but i was. really embarrassed of how that looked. like i didn't see. a christmas commercial that had like. my family on on the ad but really.

as i'm old as i'm older now and as i. said it does come with age i'm like. it's amazing like i have so many. different elements of my life. but yeah i always want to speak about it. and be open because your family doesn't. have to look like i met marvin and his. mum and dad have been married like 40. odd years. and. you know they they share the same dna. and it's all you know it's all very in. my mind how i would wanted my family to. look but everybody's family comes if.

they're different problems their their. road hasn't been plain sailing and i. just think so it's something that i've. always spoken about because. it is what you make it at the end of the. day and i think. like you said if it serves you in the. right way then brilliant but also if. your family is perfect on the outside. and it's not serving you. then. you don't have to hold on to things that. you think you have to because you've got. that. ideal picture in your mind.

and even a dysfunctional family can. teach you a lot of important lessons. about life and so really interesting. course it tends to be the case with my. guests that come here it's in fact often. the. the thing that made them different the. thing that made their family slightly. dysfunctional which leads to them having. wild success obviously sometimes or. becoming an anomaly later in life yeah. it seems to tends to be the case that a. little bit of a different start to life. causes a little bit of a different end. to life yeah you know what i mean.

um and that's again. needs to be said there's always a. downside as well to that so we have. people here that are incredibly. relentless in their career because of. some insecurity from their childhood so. just understanding that and being. self-aware about that is um important. speaking of. tremendous successes the saturdays. when you look back on that phase of your. life how would you describe it now in. hindsight and now you're 32. oh my gosh. you know you look 22. i look back now. and i think the saturdays existed at the. perfect time in my life.

like i was a young girl in. well i think. when i joined the group i was like. obviously it took a while for us to. launch. so i think i was 18 when we formed. and. what young. girl. doesn't want to be. in a girl band well i mean i'm sure. there are girls that don't but for me. it was the most incredible experience. when i look back now i think. we were actually really fortunate when i.

see other girl bands and their fallouts. and the way that looked i think goodness. me yes we bickered but we bickered like. sisters we never had a row that was like. we just never had it we didn't we kind. of was all there for the same reason we. loved what we did and we had a respect. for that. so i feel blessed because when i look at. the history of girl bands. it doesn't always play out that way so. we had the best time if there was. something up we'd sort it out and that.

was it done and it was only only really. ever a work thing so it'd be like i. don't like that i don't think that's the. right vibe for the video. or i don't think and that's the sort of. disagreement that's sort of where it. stopped. and then we always had this there was. five of us so we had the majority rules. rule. and it was and on that on the on the. time where you were in the two and not. the three. it was so annoying yeah so you'd be like. and it was one of those things because. you know you couldn't do anything about. it because that's we lived our life by. that so it is what it is and even if you.

think your point is so valid you're in. the two so go back down. [Music]. um but yeah so i had a ball i was young. for a proportion of it i was single. you know i didn't have chill i just we. we traveled the world we performed. i had a bloody good time doing it so. when i look back i only actually. look back. fondly. so interesting because liam payne sat. here. from one direction before he arrived i.

would have said the same what young guy. wouldn't have wanted to be in one. direction but then when he described how. turbulent that experience was and being. a young dude that comes out on stage. there's 150 000 people screaming at him. he then has to go back to his hotel room. straight after the gig and he's. basically locked in the hotel room. because there's tens of thousands of. fans screaming downstairs and doing that. over and over and over again for years. and years and years really took a toll. on him yeah obviously like also not. being able to walk down the street. without people coming up to him and.

um and then the band ending and there's. almost that sense of like well what the. hell do i do now yeah. was there not it almost made me think. that there's a bit of a curse of being. in the public eye especially in that. context of a band and yeah and then what. happens after and yeah did they. experience i don't know i just after the. conversation with them i thought yeah so. glad i wasn't in one direction yeah i. think look i think one direction's level. and it was a global phenomenon right. and i've noticed.

being married to mark there's a very. different level of hysteria when you're. in a boy band to a girl band like it's. just it's just different it comes with. the nature of this job the hysteria is. wild for boys. which i do think would come with a. different level of pressure i mean. there's pros and cons to both you know. when you're in a girl band it's very. visual and people are obsessed with how. you look and if you're the one that may. have enjoyed your christmas too much and.

put on a bit of weight oh people are. gonna tell you or if you're the one that. kind of you know there's there's with. girls it's all very visual and i think. that's what. i think we can all say that we would. have found the toughest at one point. for us. our we didn't burst onto the scene right. so like we weren't like jealous or like. one direction. who went on x factor in its prime. and. gained this overnight momentum and girls. overnight want to wait outside their.

house because there's one minute you're. a guy that's just turned up for an. audition and the next minute. you've got this pressure that you don't. know how to handle because no one's. taught you that so for us we did the. like. university gigs we did the. we we didn't have that. burst we really did. it was a. real sort of grind to get our single. played on radio and we. you know so for us it was kind of.

every little bit of success meant so. much because. we would all at the time we'd be like oh. we should've just got an expert and we'd. say things like that because we think it. was so hard for us and we'd see these. groups that appeared overnight and we'd. be like oh my goodness we've been here. for years trying. um you know our dressing rooms would be. toilets because that's sort of that's. the level it was it wasn't it wasn't all. glitz and glamour. but. it worked that way in the end and we. were all on that same page and it was. kind of like you're only as strong as.

your weakest member right so we were all. there we were all present we were always. on time and we really wanted it. we enjoyed it because as these things. happened or we got booked for. an amazing performance which was really. hard to get or we you know an appearance. or a jonathan ross chat show we were. like we've only bloody got jonathan ross. because we couldn't get on there the. single before because nobody was. interested however yes there were. massive downsides it's like a whole. merry-go-round and that's a downside. you're on a hamster wheel i think the.

downsize is not. having control over your own life and. i'm a control freak i don't know if. you'll gauge that already. um. i like to know what i'm doing i'm like. that's me as a person. so there's time you know there would be. times and when. you'd feel responsible and because that. was always our sort of mantra like we're. in this together like one of us drops. off we let the other one down. if you weren't up to it the pressure. that you'd put on yourself to be up to. it for everybody else like i.

had a layer and i came back to work. three and a half weeks later and. performed on national television like. with spanx up to my neck to try and hold. in the belly and like. this is gross for you but boobs leaking. because i'm like trying to navigate am i. breastfeeding on my not all because i. didn't want to let the girls down and. and. the fact that the label were like you've. got another single to release and i. think it just got to a point. where we became a bit more adult. and we all just were like.

this has been quite a lot. you know and we're ready to sort of. wind down we never actually officially. broke up. there's probably someone in the record. label somewhere that probably would. still say that we owe them a single. we didn't officially break up because. there wasn't a need to because we love. each other and it's look we don't talk. every day because we spent so long of. our life together but i see one of them. tomorrow and it's like. we haven't not seen each other i think. we just got to a point where we were. like.

we've you know we've grafted we've done. this now we're ready to sort of. just like there's things that when. you're in a group that you don't even. think about right because you're. in control of yourself in the same way i. am now but thinking about things like we. would all have to agree on the same day. off. well that's near on impossible because. you want to go. to see your friend in. i don't know whatever he's doing that. day and you and i want to do this and. i've actually got this. so it was those little things that. became. hard for me like i want to be off.

because mars got down for work so can we. have friday well no actually because i. want and it naturally. it's going to just become a little bit. like okay let's pause on this for now. and we can all. go in our own lanes and that's sort of. how it ended and how it still is. as those priorities shift i guess and. you start to you know then i had a baby. yeah exactly i'm like you know and. that's. that became. everything. and.

owner had already had a little one too. before i had a layer but it just yeah. there's a there's a switch isn't there. and you start to go okay we've done this. now for us so when's the reunion quite. some time. you know what i just can't imagine doing. it i'll be totally honest with you and. i'm always honest i just can't. and i've been there to see marvin on. side of stage doing the whole groupie. wife thing but i thought. i just. just feels like a lovely chapter that. ended for me and it was so lovely and i.

will always speak of it fondly but. it just feels like a period in my life. that's done when you think about doing. it when you think about getting that. email and they say we're going to do a. tour reunion what what are the emotions. that come to mind. as in the sense yeah it just would feel. like. i just i've look i've got three kids and. there's so many things that i turned. down because it wouldn't work for my. life.

and that falls into that. category like. my life's changed i have a business. there's no way i could be on tour. imagine the girls in the office would be. like oh she's at the o2 tonight like. we've got stuff to do you know i think. it's just it just wouldn't well i don't. think i'd remember the dance routines. the thought of doing it's all of the. like the actual. i love it and i feel like a bit of a. cool mum that i had that time. but it's not me now it's just not and i. think it's okay. do your kids realize that you're.

in a. really well-known girl band elia does. but she doesn't care it's really sad. like i was i was showing her these. videos she cares to watch the videos and. that's quite nice. but i was telling her i was like you. know because she loves little mix oh my. god she is like the biggest little mix. fan you should tell her they copied me. and i was like literally i was saying to. her because when the little mixed girls. were on x factor we were on tour and. they come to one of our tour rehearsals. and. like asked for our advice so i was i was.

saying this to a lady and i was like. what do you know actually. when i was telling this whole story they. they come to and i tried to find it and. there was a clip on youtube of them. coming to meet us and watching our. rehearsal it was like it's ancient this. clip. she was like. but why would they ask you for advice. go to your room be crafty. so in her mind because she she. understands i did it but she i don't. think she realizes but it's funny.

because because she loves little mix i'm. like god she would probably love it if i. did that again you know like she would. probably love that. but. yeah i'm just not. there in my life anymore. and that isn't. there's no. that's not bad mind as me and my friends. would say it's just not. yeah not for me now. i've had so many people tag me on. instagram even on telegram and in my. twitter dms. in a picture of them starting their heel. journey and it's one of the most.

amazing things in my life that i get to. do a podcast which of course needs money. to to fuel and i have a sponsor like you. who i genuinely believe is going to help. every single person. who starts their heel journey change. their life because this podcast the. central intention of this podcast is to. help people live better lives and we get. to sit here and i get to promote to you. a product which has not only helped me. change my life but it's going to help. millions of people and is helping. millions of people live a nutritionally. complete life it's so it's such an.

incredible product and for me the reason. why it's incredible is because it gives. me my protein it gives me my vitamins. minerals it's plant-based it's low in. sugar gluten-free it does all of that in. a small drink that tastes good there are. other products there's foods there's the. hot and savory collection many other. things but for me. this ready to drink is the absolute. saviour of my diet throughout the week. where i'm moving at such pace. look i don't want to labor the point but. if you haven't tried you'll give it a. try and if you do. tag me instagram wherever you try it. give me a tag anyway.

back to the podcast. you talked about starting a business. then you've got a business you run now. my little coco. tell me about that why why did you want. to start that business and obviously you. know being a mother of three wonderful. children starting a business especially. starting a business at the start of the. pandemic is a. uh really great time right yeah. phenomenal timing to take on tremendous. responsibility yeah so. obviously i'd started the business. before it didn't launch until a few. weeks before the pandemic hit.

um. but there was an emotion right we. couldn't stop then. so i was pregnant. with a layer. and. going through that real phase of like. thinking i'm an earth mum. and being really precious about what i. use or my kid you know they are the most. precious thing. ever in your life like that just. and. i was really fussy about what i used. and i would shop really premium so i'd. be like going into like liberty beauty.

hall and finding out you know and i'd be. really into it there wasn't anything. that existed on the high street that i. felt happy with you know a lot of them. have like outrageous chemicals in and. things that you. are like oh that's quite harsh for baby. skin so for me it was bridging that gap. of. products that you could use for the. whole family. that were gentle that had everything. that i wanted as you know my values. and. so the journey began and i didn't want.

this to be. a flash in the pan thing i didn't want. this to be baby by rochelle humes this. wasn't about me right this was about me. building a brand. from the ground up. rolling with the punches which we. certainly have done and yeah bigger. picture you know. almost creating a space. i knew what i wanted to do but almost. creating a space for myself that like. i'm always going to be needed right. because it's mine and no one can make.

the decisions that i can make because. this is my baby so why was that. important well i think i suppose there's. a little bit of the nature in what i do. that. yes i host television but. any day someone. more relevant or more current could come. along because that's the way the time is. there could be somebody new that now. fills the gap that i. you know had created or left open so i. think. for me it's always. being that one step ahead and being in.

control being in control you're getting. this thing yeah um marvin told me. [Laughter]. um. it hasn't been easy though goodness to. me. so. i knew exactly what i wanted so. developed pro we started off with a. range of seven products um. that would develop which takes a long. time and please believe it's like. particularly when it's children involved. so the testing for any product the. process is quite.

stringent and it's it's a full-on thing. but add newborn into it. we're dealing with a whole new level of. testing which rightly so. um. so it took a while it took three years. in you know for. before the pandemic hit and it was in. store it was three years work prior to. that. and i'm never happy with something on. the first round it's notorious it's not. happened yet it won't happen there'll. always be something that i want to. change. so that obviously took quite a long time. and then it was me.

i suppose deciding from a sensible. business perspective if i want to. take the risk and go on my own. e-commerce first of all or do i want to. partner with a retailer. most people eventually want to partner. with a retailer right it's getting in. there and it's you know. and that's where i was lucky you know. the business has been me and it's been. my graft aside from rochelle humes but. that's where i do feel lucky that i. could use my profile to have a meeting. with certain retailers and.

be in that room and you know. use that to my advantage which i did do. however it can go against me too so it's. not always. yeah okay you've got that because you. have had the profile that has helped. with that it actually can. can go against you because you know what. do you know you're a celebrity coming. into this world and what is this going. to be another celebrity range people say. that to you or was that kind of implied. yeah i mean they said it without saying.

it as bluntly as i did yeah it was it. was yeah definitely implied. so then so i was going for a whole thing. and there was. i'd had this moment where. one of my products um was a cult well it. is a curl custard. and. that was key to the range like that's. happening. and. there were quite a few retailers that. didn't feel the need. they liked the range.

i think they like the range and they. like the association with me and what. that might bring to. their store. but. the values and everything else that. comes with the brand that i've created. they wasn't so interested in. so the fact that i'm trying to make it. diverse. the fact that. you know that i want people to walk on. their high street and be able to get a. hair product for. afro hair. that that's a must the fact that you.

know. the level of moisturizing is different. when you're of a black background. you know and that that appreciating. those things and i think. i mean what's really interesting is i. think if i'd have pitched this idea now. post blm movement. i think they would have bit my hand off. yeah yeah which is wild right. but when i did pitch it it was like now. there's not really i don't think there's. a need and i'm like there's no need for. a product for people with curly or afro.

hair. sorry. what. so i. there was a bit of a struggle. and then i. had this meeting. with boots i actually felt like i was on. dragon's den really yeah felt like i was. on the telly. um. i actually was i was really nervous i. felt like i was really just. pitching. something that i knew that was great and. that i believed in but it was really i. suppose when it's your passion. it fills you with that level of nerves.

that are different right. instantly. but it was boots they got it they were. like okay. love it we want to take it all. and we love the curl custard. and that's that okay these are my people. these are my people and it's i mean it's. ironic it's it's just i'm i'm so pleased. that i went with my gut and i was. persistent with that because i felt like. it was gonna go somewhere so i needed to. stand firm on that what else has. surprised you about running your own. business that you uh if someone had told.

you before you started you might not. bothered. oh my gosh. it's all-consuming and i think if you're. gonna start a business you have to know. that don't think you're going to turn. your phone off at five because that's. not a thing. it's not a thing. and if you turn your phone off at five. don't expect a successful business. like don't expect to make money for the. first period of time expect to if you. break even that's good. and.

you have to be all in. you can't like i i speak to like some of. my sister's friends and they want to we. want to start business. but you know do you. do you actually and i think it's it's. and that's not being patronizing that's. like you're not going to make an. instagram page for it it's going to be a. success overnight and you're going to. post a few pretty pictures it takes. everything. and i think. once you're happy with that. then i think you'll be okay once you.

know that. it's really interesting um. because people don't talk about that. enough there's a definitely a culture of. be your own boss start a business as if. it will be you know the minute you make. that decision it's a decision of like. freedom and. your life is just. totally yours and in control but it. tends to be the case in my experience. anyway that starting a business becomes. almost the antithesis the opposite of. control yeah you you are controlled by. your emails and your whatsapps and. crisis and employees and. and i think it's important part of the.

reason i started this podcast was to try. and shed a light on that that side of. things that instagram won't like. definitely tell you about and i think. that's because that's the. that is the culture that we live in now. that that. you literally can launch a page and you. can look something overnight it doesn't. mean that it's gonna. work. and i think. yeah i think i just i'm always real with. that sort of stuff because. you have to work hard like you it.

people underestimate graft. and i think. particularly that's something that's. really important to me for my children. like. are they gonna have the same level of. hustle that i have and that same work. ethic and i still don't know the answer. to that to be honest with you do i do. that through schooling do i i really. make a fuss about their tests but i also. want to let them know at the same time i. didn't leave school with x y and zed i. did it myself so i think. that's an it's something that i just.

look. show up be present. be committed. work your ass off at the thing that you. know that it is that you're good at. and i think i'm not into like i'm not. going to be that mum that lets my kid go. and expect if she can't sing and be. clapping in the wings i adore my. children. and i will love them no matter what and. i would like to hear them sing but i'm. going to be real and i think that's what. we need more of and i think that's what. because i'm everyone's hype girl to the. end i will hype you now i've met you and.

i like you i will hype you so hard. but i will always be real with you and i. think that is what it doesn't have to. come up. you know from a place of judgment or a. place of disrespect it's like look. maybe go away and think about that a bit. more and go and i think that's what i. want my kids to have from me they'll. have love and abundance. but if if you're not good at a certain. thing i'm not gonna go do it and lead. them into a room blind i'm gonna say. look this is what you're amazing.

actually look at this. and i think. we can love our kids and support them. without. you know. because i think that's doing them wrong. i think we can be real at the same time. a lot of our guests in fact have sat. here in in the last couple of weeks and. said the same thing about the importance. of actually don't focus on the [ __ ]. you're really bad at if you want to go. far in life don't try and turn your d in. physics to a c in physics just focus on. jimmy carter just focus on the a like. double down on the on the competency so.

and it's that it's taking that like. focus. put your energy in in what you know. because you know what you're good at you. know what happens you get that you get. the buzz from it you know what sits. right with you you know. where you're aligned to go with that and. work on that because. that's sort of how i live my life. everything that i know that i'm not. people always said oh you should go into. acting. i'm like i can act up to marvel and i. need a couple of things but i'm not an. actor i'm not i know i'm not so i'll.

just. why are we gonna do that the same way. when i left the group everyone was like. you're gonna release a solo album i work. well in a band i know my strengths i'm. not you know i'm not beyonce i mean i'd. love to be and i think i am after. tequila but that's a different story. but i know what i'm good at i'm a good. talker. so. you know media and television that's my. route that's something that i'm. passionate about so and everyone for. ages was like i bet she's in the studio. and i bet she doesn't want to tell us. and i bet she's doing a solo album i'm.

like i'm bloody well not because guess. what i've i've taken what i need from. this experience. and i got away with it in a band and yes. i you know i can sing. i'm not the best singer in the world i'm. really not and guess what the charts are. full of amazing singers so let me do. something that i know. that i can deliver and i work my ass off. at that. what you're describing there to me. sounds it's really interesting because. you're describing like pursuing the. thing where you have a degree of. competency you're good at it but also. where you have like that internal.

intrinsic passion yeah and like both are. so important i actually spoke to a girl. the other day on a zoom mentoring call i. was doing and she'd gotten to a stage in. her life where she just just and this is. where the passion bit's really important. she kind of just followed the the. opportunity so she was good at let's say. maths so she found herself at 35 as. being this accountant. but she actually. never cared about maths she didn't care. about being an accountant she got. dragged by. the the opportunity it's like you saying.

okay i'll do the single just because i. can or i'll do my solo career just. because i can i'm not taking that moment. to pause and go actually what is it that. i care about and regardless of the fact. that i can do it do i want to do it yeah. and of money and. is this carrot that sometimes can lead. us to make short-term decisions which. become long-term regret right and i've. definitely done that yeah i've. definitely done that i've definitely. thought. i've done i've done it with brand work. before definitely. i've taken on a brand project.

and. known it's not really me but the money. was so bloody good welcome to my world. i will take all the deals. but i've got to the do you know what i. think i've got to that point now well. yes and it does again come with age it. comes with i suppose. more financial stability than i had. before like i left the group and people. were. and i wasn't sure what was going to. happen right because i'd left this group. where my life was planned to a tea for.

me. and then i was going it alone and i. thought well that's good money i should. take it i don't know what. and hi i'm michelle humes and this is. sausages i don't know whatever. and. i've definitely done that and i'm not. ashamed to say it and yes with i suppose. more. now financial stability. it's it's easier to be choosy right so. this is now easier for me to say because. at the time it was like well i don't. know when you know. when the next one might be you know the. next deal might come in.

and do you know even more so in the last. sort of 18 months. if i and this is with everything it's. now i'm so. it's the no's that are not more. important to me than the yeses. and. look i come from a working class. background where my mom has always been. like make hey where the sun shines like. this is amazing but i've really sort of. flipped the switch on that now. and. said to myself do i feel it.

i put myself in this situation this is. actually mentally what i do you're gonna. laugh so. if i get a phone call about something. and something's come in or because i. have my five-year plan of stuff that i. know that i would like to do. and we will work to make that happen but. some you know. we're also reactive so people might call. and say we thought about michelle for. this and this would be great. and i actually pretend. that i'm interviewing. myself. on the sofa on this morning and i have. to promote it no do this because it's.

actually mad so if i was interviewing. you about i don't know you. you now. are being the face of this mug right. could you. sit on the safer and i'm not so tell me. everything so why did you want to do. this could you genuinely say it with. your gut. and feel passionate about it and believe. in it and know it works and feel proud. of that association. and there are those checklists that i do. in my mind and the questions that i. would ask someone so tell me about it so.

when did this start when did you get the. phone call how exciting is it and if i. don't feel confident in that interview. i'm not doing it and that is my new. thing and for the past sort of year. that's what's been playing out in my. mind. and it's changed the landscape for me. that's such a i love that i think that's. so powerful because what it did for me. then is i was trying to think about the. ways to sell this mug right. i saw your face you weren't selling it. and this is your mug in your house by. the way i'm buying you some christmas. well i think i think you look closely. actually matches the table so there was.

it does but you don't believe in it i. can tell no. i said to myself i think i could do it. once but then getting called to and to. build a business or to pursue something. you have to do it over and over and over. again for an indefinite period of time. maybe 10 years i couldn't do it for 10. years the first time we'd be acting we. can all act in the short term if we have. to but acting for a sustained period of. time does all kinds of damage i mean. eventually it's going to become really. hard to get out of bed to do something. i'm not passionate about and it's not. just acting the wants because then it. turns into the whole new world now which.

is social media yeah so then which i. treat my social media like my home right. i keep it tidy i keep it nice if someone. wants to come in i'll make sure i've. tidied up the place so my pictures are. good but you know and i you know i try. to. visually i'm you know i'm honest. but i also like it looking nice i'm not. going to post the worst part of my day. and i have respect for people that do. and i say this a lot because i think. there's become a pressure with social. media that we now have to be honest.

constantly and i should be displaying my. stretch marks at all times and i should. be saying. my child's just. you know i don't know had a really messy. nappy in front of everybody and they're. bombed on me and i've got to take a. selfie and document that moment i have. respect for you if you can do that but. i'm too busy getting myself out of the. [ __ ] at the time that the last thing i'm. thinking about is a selfie do you know. what i mean so i i really. i fee so i think there's now a pressure. that we all have to take that approach. which is interesting that we should be a. politician we should come comment on.

current affairs like look. i have a blue tick for the reason that. you know for the reason that i'm. verified and it's not because i'm a news. anchor and it's not because i know. everything that's going on in the world. and it's not because. you know i'm constantly going to expose. every part of my life and. but i'll be the real me on there but i. just can't if something bad is happening. at home. i might be ready to talk about it in a. week but that's the sort of instant. instagram for me so i think it sounds.

like you've had a couple of dms of. people pushing you to talk on things. well i think i think but i think you. yeah you do and i think it's not just. dm's i think people just expect and i'm. also really aware of that i call it the. blue tick responsibility i'm really. aware of the fact that people could. take my information and it it might not. be correct so i don't want to become and. i think there was a lot of that over the. pandemic people reposting stuff before. they knew the right information and then.

i've i've then. become part of that scaremongering. culture and i feel. i feel it's my responsibility to report. on stuff that i know everything about. and the stuff that i know everything. about is myself. my brand my right so i think don't. expect. that from people that are. also not in the know yeah yeah i think. it's quite a it's quite a big ask. actually. and obviously there's a lot i'm. passionate about and that might. you know that might muddle into you know. if i know about it and i've got an.

opinion on it yeah i'm going to tell you. but i'm not going to talk about. something that i don't know about i. don't think it's fair. let's talk about that then things you're. passionate about um and. sort of topics you've you've spoken on. the black maternity scandal was one of. those topics um. i was i was reading about why you wanted. to do that documentary and the. statistics around um. mortality in the black community at. pregnancy are pretty staggering for me. yeah the thing that i found really. i want to talk to you about particular.

was there was a bit of a a conversation. when you decided to do that documentary. around whether you were black enough. let's. it was quite it was quite the. conversation let's just call it how it. is. and i find it we've both got i believe. i'm guessing here a white parent and a. black parent as well correct it's. interesting because growing up in an. all-white school i was blacker than. black yeah i was the blackest thing. anyone had ever seen. i was the nice guy and then when you go. into. adult life and.

you also seem to get then rejected by. the black community even though you've. spent your whole life thinking and you. know yeah being the blackest person in. in my circle and i i funnily enough i. was posted on um. an instagram account when i was. announced as a dragon and the debate in. the comments section from this kind of. like black instagram account was all. around whether i was black enough. and it was black people saying well. that's enough for what for what i don't. know to like be part of that community. like i'm too much of a lighter i don't.

even know what that means i'm apparently. i'm too much of a lighting to be. um. to be part of that community and i just. think. i have to say and i just don't give a. [ __ ] because no one could find me i just. think it's pathetic i think personally i. think it's totally [ __ ] pathetic like. black people trying to decide whether. i'm black enough. to to understand like my mother is. nigerian i was born in africa what do i. have to like what do i have to do to be. able to speak to yeah look i i'll be. honest with you i found that really hard. and i actually found that probably the.

hardest thing that i've come across in. my. career. i found it really. it's our background on that before we. come to this so as you said so at the. time of filming the show. um there was a campaign started um by. two brilliant women um called five times. more. and black women were five times more. likely to die in and around childbirth. than their white counterparts. and if you what we say black and brown.

women but if you were from a mixed. background so i was. four times as likely if you were. if you were of an asian background you. were three times as likely and it. basically if you weren't white. it didn't look good for you in and. around childbirth. so. i got approached by a production company. to go on this sort of. journey into why.

and. at the time they asked me i was very. pregnant. and. i just was like it's a little bit too. much i found it a bit overwhelming i was. also scared about working. um during covid and that you know at the. peak of kobe 2.6 we're very much still. living through it. um. because if you were pregnant you were. also at more risk and then obviously if. you're of a black background and. pregnant you're at more risk of getting. covered and also it was so i was just. like look i'm going to be in my house. i will 100.

because this was just a pitch at this. time right and you know how this works. you can make a million different. programs but none of them necessarily. make it on telly so i said look if you. think you put my name on this pitch to. channel four is going to get it across. the line put my name on it but i'm in. the new year once i've had the baby in. october. get let me just i will i would i'm here. for it i will do it. so that conversation happened. they said yes we would want to. commission it. we'll wait for you all to do in the new. year so that was that and then.

fast forward to. we announced that we were taping it. which was probably we'd already started. but we were announced because i think i. wanted to get a couple more. women that i'd found through my channel. to maybe share their experiences. and so i sort of did a call out on. social media i announced i was filming. it and did a call out to to say this is. what we're filming and it sparked a. conversation it's back to a real. conversation of did you know and a lot. of people were like yes what you know.

white midwives had messaged me saying. i've seen this you know i would i'd like. to be a part of it you know there's a. there's lots that needs to be needs to. be done here but first and foremost. people didn't know those stats and i. think that was. for me really important that we we get. that. on a big stage. there's some women that have been doing. some incredible work for years working. tirelessly. um to promote these figures and to.

you know. get some sort of acknowledgement that. this happens. so let's give it a big voice right. so first of all the conversation was and. that was the feeling everyone was like. well done i didn't know about this. and then overnight the doll turned. there was a post that was posted on. instagram that was from another woman. who is. an author. um. a presenter that said that she. had been asked. to front the same show.

so this conversation has happened and it. was like great and then. she had said i'd been asked to front. this show. which obviously i'd woken up and seen. this post and was mortified she was a. darker skinned black woman. the first thing i did. was dm her. this is my number i don't know what [ __ ]. has gone down here but this is my number. give me a call. to this day i've not heard from her. and then that sort of triggered this.

whole conversation of. the fact that i'd taken a a darker. skinned woman's bread and it it. the dial switched overnight and i was. can i tell you i was beside myself. devastated because first of all that. isn't i'm not whether you're white black. i'm not stealing any woman's bread. that's not for me so i kind of wanted to. get to the bottom of this so i called. channel four i caught i was like just. tell me has anybody because i was on the.

pitch right so i was like this is. bizarre because we pitched this together. has anybody been asked to host this. apart from me because i'm not cool with. this and this isn't i'd i'll do it with. her we'll do it together but this isn't. the way that i work. and she and she hadn't been asked and. obviously. as i said there's lots of shows that are. being made so i'm not sure if there was. another production that she'd maybe had. word with and maybe started making. something similar that i that i don't. know and it's probably more than likely. so obviously it sparked this debate.

around colorism which. is also a great conversation to be. having we don't have that conversation. enough. but it wasn't the debate we were trying. to spark we were talking about maternal. mortality so it sort of snowballed into. this chat and colorism most definitely. exists i'm aware of that i might be. lighter than one woman but i'm. definitely darker than some that's how. my life has been. so. in a way i was like look. this is at my expense.

and this conversation that sparked is. incorrect and it isn't. this isn't how it went down. however it sparked a conversation that. i'm not gonna. release a statement and stop it and say. listen it wasn't and i'm not gonna out. another woman for saying the wrong. information because that isn't me so i. let it i let it go because i just. thought do you know what. that's also a conversation worth having. yes to some i definitely have it a lot. easier because. i am lighter skinned.

but as i said before i'm also darker. than some so i understand it so i let. that conversation play out for that. reason because the more we talk about. these things the better right. however it was harsh and it was a hard. pill to swallow because in this instance. this isn't it wasn't it. i felt really hurt because. i was. first of all i was being denied of my. black gene. yeah first off. secondly the community that i'm making.

this show for and that we were fighting. to get this on tv it was the first. documentary of this kind being made. weren't happy about it until they saw it. and i was like just wait and see it. because it's actually not about me it's. about the brilliant women that have been. brave enough to take part in this dark. so yeah it was a really weird period of. time because i genuinely didn't know how. to handle it because i didn't i then put. the show on the other foot and then i. said okay so if i'd been asked to do. this which i had to do this show put my. name on it to get this commissioned.

and i'd said no if you think it's going. to get commission but we really feel. rushed that by putting your profile to. it we'll get it across the line and if. i'd have said no. am i not then doing my bit for the back. am i not then doing what i should be. doing and. so i really imagine it was a yeah. imagine imagine imagining that that. story broke michelle was asked to do. this um documentary about um. the increase in the the staggering. statistics of mortality in black women. at childbirth and she said no.

imagine that you would have got the same. this is a lose-lose situation. and that's how it really felt and i. think that was the biggest frustration. and also in all of this. so this big conversation happened. fine okay i get it and i'm not saying. that colorism doesn't exist because it. really [ __ ] does and it's awful and. it's unjust and it isn't right and. there's a lot of work to do. in that space and i think that'll be. something that exists for a very long. time unfortunately. however.

that. it wasn't it and it wasn't right to make. this situation about colorism. and yeah i just found it a real struggle. because at the same time and there was a. lady called mars who's just a brilliant. woman she's a doula and she has been. campaigning. for this disparity for a very long time. and she said the thing that you're. forgetting she called me because she saw. it all go down she was like are you all. right are you okay. and i literally burst into tears.

she was like you're forgetting. you've you've lost yourself out of these. stats. because being a mixed woman. you are still four times as likely to. die than a white woman you're losing. yourself in this too and your children. and the re. so you are still very much part of those. stats so let's not lose this here you. know these the stats are about black and. brown women. so i had to remember and there was talk.

of we had a meeting at my management and. we go we're going to pull out of this. should we just pull out of this because. and i was like no do you know what i'm. not. because it's not actually about me and. they will learn that when this program. airs. because these brilliant women have. trusted me to protect their stories we. were so careful we had we had one. director a black female director and it. was just we didn't have a soundie we. didn't have any a whole crew. we turned up to these women's homes and.

we protected we wanted them to feel safe. so it was just her and i. and they could tell their story and we. didn't want to sort of. make them relive their trauma in a way. that wasn't going to be helpful so we it. was we we did it in the best way that we. could um. and what's interesting is. i've had so many different letters since. saying i'm so sorry that we wrote this. article because. actually we watch the show and it's not. what we so it's just funny that when i.

talk about that blue tick responsibility. one post can set a whole community. alight. when actually it was incorrect. and. that's where i think we all need to do. better in our position to make sure that. we're always posting the right. information when we do that. social media is is very much a place of. um trying to hold everybody. to a standard of fit like false. perfectionism like as if we're all just. perfect human beings we make perfect.

decisions there is correct and there is. wrong on social media there's no nuance. there's no middle ground there's no. appreciation for like. complexity and how okay this is right. but also this is right that that. conversation doesn't happen because. we're the algorithm pushes us into these. tribes where we're either left or right. um. when you're trying to be. true to yourself when you're trying to. um speak on issues that matter it's. almost it's almost impossible in in the. age of social media and what i.

really like about what you've described. there is um there was this intense. pressure to like fall in line with. correct with what when i say correctness. i don't mean that it's right i mean like. they're like false correctness this is. you know it's like a mob screaming in. your face rochelle this is correctness. stop do come and join us yeah on the. side of false perfection and come and. and you had the i guess the i wouldn't. even describe it as courage because that. doesn't feel like the right word but you. had the sense to say i'm gonna do this. anyway.

um a lot of people don't have that these. days a lot of i find it so incredibly. hard like. i'm someone who's probably at some point. going to get cancelled because i really. when you describe that story to me it. just pisses me off so much yeah but you. have to sit on it i know and i but with. this it was different because of the. reason i was doing it yeah so i was like. look i don't want to say anything. because there's a lot of noise happening. and i've not even said anything yet yeah. and my the old me with what we were. talking about would have just gone. yeah but really i didn't want.

if i spoke on it it would be another. daily mail article and the noise would. have just it would just kept. you know snowballing out of control. so. i was just like look i'm not do it this. isn't about me it's not about me it's. about. i had a job in my mind and my mind and. that's what kept me going because those. women that i spoke to i was it was for. them. and the whole time i was checking they. were okay with this look do you think.

and i was getting their their take on. this and if they had said to me at one. point rush i actually think. maybe stepped down from this. i would have done genuinely i would have. done but they had trusted me and i i'm. not going to let them down we're. thinking about the bigger picture here. and i think so it was that so i just i. just kept silent on it because i thought. what is it the queen you don't ex do. like the queen if someone said to me. once you you never. you don't explain and you don't complain.

in certain situations i was like i've. never done like the queen in my life but. i'm going to put it to use right now. because. i didn't want to make it about me i. didn't want to make it about the fact. that do you know what actually i was. scared of taking my kid to nursery that. day because i got death threats i didn't. want to make it about do you know it's. not about me. it was about the bigger picture and i. think. i just had to hold on to that marv did. take my phone off me that day i lost my. i lost my for the weekend he was like.

that is going off and he literally texts. everybody that works with me and was. like. if you need him here but like no more. phone. you're right if you had responded it. would have been fuel for the fire i. think when those moments happen people. are intent on misunderstanding. that's what it feels like they are tr so. even if you'd come with your explanation. honestly the lens in which they would. have viewed your explanation or your. side of the story is like where can we. find another [ __ ] twist exactly and i. thought you know what a num it's.

it's too tiring and then if i say. something then someone like you said. would yeah but you still didn't and then. i would have had to have gone back to. that and i think it's a never-ending. yeah it's a never-ending cycle but that. that definitely was like. navigating through that was probably the. hardest. thing i've actually been through ever. would you would you. if you could now erase that experience. and not have going through it would you. yeah you would erase it yeah. i'd erase the i wouldn't erase doing the.

show and doing i would have raised that. day and that. that it was just awful but didn't it. teach you something. because you'd be erasing the lesson it. taught you as well if you raised the. experience yeah you're right you are. right. yeah. i'm gonna give you an eraser would you. erase that day no. a little bit. just just just touch it up a little bit. um no do you know what i think. i think you're right and i actually. think that happened at the start of this.

year and do you know what you was we. were saying like over the past year my. whole. outlook has changed on a lot of things. and maybe you're right maybe it has. also come. from experiences like that that have. taught me. not to you know not to react so quickly. and not i think sometimes we're so. quick to jump out to our own defense. because i don't want someone to think. i'm that person and i don't want them to. think that i would do that to another. woman guess what i know i would never do. that to another woman that isn't me the.

first thing i did when i saw that was. message her and say babe here's my. number call me. because that isn't me. but do i need to defend that to a whole. lot of people that have already made up. their mind. no because it's exhausting and. i'm not achieving anything so i think. sometimes we're so desperate to to. defend ourselves and put out a statement. to say actually this isn't what happened. and you know. justice yeah. cause it sounds a lot like what we. described with the relationship with. your father.

that need for justice ends up being. really self-harming yeah and accepting. acceptance again is the yeah and because. i know i was coming from a place of love. i was coming from the best place in the. world. people were saying things like oh yeah. you just you've got you've got enough. money give it to a presenter that didn't. have that opportunity i'm like i didn't. take the money from the show that's what. you don't know i gave it to the charity. in order that i was working with i. didn't take a penny from that event if. anything it cost me money. so. but was i going to write that in a.

statement and to make myself look like a. you know look like the angel no because. it wasn't about me and i think sometimes. it is just taking that like you don't. have to jump to your defense to prove. that you're an incredible person all the. time. it's just i know where it was coming. from and sometimes it's enough and it's. exhausting because someone's always. going to have something to say always. always. especially on social media always yeah i. i i i've gotten to the place where i can. open my dms and i'll be reading it and.

it'll be like love the podcast you're. amazing another podcast you're amazing. and then one guy goes make these. podcasts are proper [ __ ]. and you look at it and you go like do. you laugh now i do yeah i'll screenshot. it. we're shutting down the podcast brian. from skunthorpe with like a egg avatar. has. decided. i know but this but this is exactly it. right and there was that. that time when that prudent i turned. everything off. i turned off comments i turned up um. and then i just like i'm not dealing.

with this i'm just gonna live my life i. literally. cried. for 48 hours and was devastated. it was really weird i made a roast. dinner. marv had my phone. and then i remember him that week going. well i think you can be you're all right. now on this because i i was like right. let's let's cancel filming this week. because i also didn't want it to affect. the contributors thinking oh we now. can't be part of this show. which we thought we were because now. we're worried the black community don't.

approve of you know it means there was a. bit of that so i was like look let's. stop filming this week. and we'll go back to it when we all have. had some sleep and we don't feel too. emotional and. so that's what we did we picked it up. the following week so i took that week. off. and. rebecca that works with me she. marvin was on the phone today said right. can you just do me a favor before you. give it back so just clear the dms. and then she was actually like look it's. actually not as bad as you think and. whatever whatever it you know it's fine.

we move we know the intention. and she sent me a screenshot of one of. my messages it was like you're cancelled. to me you're this you're that you're you. know. what you know there was a few of them. and then it was like. uh can you just tell me the recipe to. your roast potato. and then the next one would be like i. had so much respect for you before but i. can't believe what you've done and then. it would be like. um where's your dress from when you were. so it was you know it's just like do you. know what that is just.

and i also think it was that period of. time where everybody was locked down. and it was like. everyone was on their phones more which. became like everybody came out and it. was like it felt just like such an. attack. i was like do you know what the reality. is. sometimes you're not going to get. everything right and. deep down i really don't think i would. have handled anything differently. because i know where it came from and. the place. but you're not always going to get. everything right and not everyone is. always going to be impressed with.

everything you do and i think that was. maybe. maybe that's why it was the hardest time. because maybe it was the first moment. in my career that blindsided me. that i wasn't in control of that someone. could have said something that wasn't. quite the truth and i had no control. over that. and. yeah so maybe that's why i found it. because i wasn't you know normally i'm. like. i know what i'm doing i go on telly i do. my thing i do this or i've released a. single and it come. but i just didn't know i could.

yeah. that that was possible and i think. that's probably why it got me in the gut. you talked a little bit there about. earlier about um you said made a comment. that you've never had one like this when. describing marvin and i can see there. you know he's doing a lot to shield you. and protect you by taking your phone and. kind of being a human shield from a lot. of that. chaos. um and you also said earlier in the. conversation that your business is. all-consuming yeah so how do you find. that balance because i'm i'm in a. relationship now and i struggle with the.

balance of. do it being my professional steve and. all that stuff and then having to like. switch off and fall into a different. mindset where there's no like kpis and. it's not about profit and like you know. my girlfriend just wants to do simple. things watch movies watch something. about ayahuasca and peru like and i i. have to kind of compartmentalize. but like how have you and you've had a. you know. outside looking in again it's important. to say that because we. never know what's going on yeah we. talked about families so. it looks like you guys have had a really.

solid relationship how have you achieved. that how do you find that balance and. what's what's the key i think we just. have this real understanding of one. another. and i think. we we both really appreciate how lucky. we are. like. that's something that we always say like. i can say it from my point of view. because i feel very lucky to have him. i'm not gonna. say why he's lucky to have me. but why is he lucky to have you. i'm joking. well.

um. no so i can only speak for me but it's. something that we always agree on like. he really is my calmness in the chaos. like if that makes any and he always has. been he's got that real calming demeanor. and. he really is that for me so we've always. we've always both had a real respect of. how lucky. we are in this world that it's kind of. like. that we are in to find somebody that's. solid like i know how rare that is.

have we nailed balance. babe no. we have three kids we have full-time. jobs we're self-employed. we're winging it pretty much through. life. but never with each other. he makes me feel really secure you know. and i think that is. something that's really important to me. and i don't know if that's where my dad. comes into play too. where that like he. like we could be anywhere in the world. but if we're together in our little. family this evening before we had kids.

like. i'm like happy i'm i'm good with life. and i and i feel like that's why i can. i'm in a place. i'm not going to give him all the credit. actually here but i'm in a place where. in my career i feel like i can take a. lot on like when i arrived today i was. like i'm not good i've not stopped but. i've got i've all. that side of my life feels very. content and is content. which can push me on to do other stuff. and when i say like i look he'll always. be like oh my god it's amazing that.

you've done this or that. and people will talk about well i. yeah it's great but i've got. i've got good people behind me you know. and and he is definitely at the. forefront of that for sure. you were you talked about how you were. cheated on a previous relationship. often when people are go through that. when they've gone through that kind of. deception and dishonesty from a partner. they go into the next relationship kind. of holding holding it the next person. like responsible for the last person and. i see that a lot of my dms i had this. conversation the other day and i don't.

normally respond to this kind of thing. but she this. this um this woman had sent me her. screenshots with her boyfriend and she. was hammering him going show me your. phone. and then she explained to me she'd been. cheated on in the past so she's insecure. and she actually said to her her current. boyfriend like i think it was. guilty until proven innocent and i was. like no honey no. i was like you're going to do so much. damage by yeah to the foundation of the. relationship by bringing that but it. goes back to what we were saying again.

you do damage to yourself. because now she is feeling. that she constantly has to be that. person. but who's happy here because the. boyfriend isn't happy doing that and she. really isn't so i think that was a real. conscious decision for me to not take. that into this. because i don't think you can ever let. any relationship grow its full potential. if you're still dealing with old [ __ ]. and that's in friendships that's in.

the workplace but i think. yeah for me that was really really. important and. like anybody. until someone gives me a reason. to feel a certain way. like i'm not going to meet you and think. oh i met someone the other day that. interviewed me and was a bit of a dick. so this day is going to be horrendous. because sorry what was that i mean. you're a person. you're a lovely guy and we've had a very. nice chat um but do you know what i mean.

like you can't walk into every situation. thinking because you had a bad time one. day that it's going to be the same the. next and i think. that's what i was really i will say when. i met mark i was very anti-getting with. him didn't they tell you not to get with. someone in a boy band and yeah anyway. yeah i did really not eat me and frankie. they were like it's really going well. girls you know. you've worked well the singles are going. down well. the worst the only thing that you could. do now. you know afterwards work so we didn't. have that overnight success as i was.

saying the only thing you could do. because it's a really hard thing to get. girls to like girls girls love to be. fans of boys and boy bands the only. thing you can do to mess it up now. you've got the girls on side is to date. someone from boy groups. and you thought and i just remember. looking at frank cat was in this meeting. at the record label she was at the time. she was dating dougie from mcfly. and i was obviously dating marv and i. was like. well we [ __ ] this one.

so it was kind of like we tried to keep. it a secret for so long and i remember. like sneaking into one of marv's gigs. and i was watching from the sound desk. and a girl come up to me and she said. you have ruined my life. i was like oh. i think i know what he meant the other. day. she was like like with intent like she. was like you have ruined. my life. and i was like huh like okay you know. it's like i couldn't really hear and. then but the third time i was like oh i.

totally understand and the eyes i knew. what she meant. like i remember being like that's mad. because she wanted marvin yeah. and i remember thinking. oh okay then this isn't going to be. straightforward. but now the other side. all these years later reunion tours. i don't get that anymore. i don't get that anywhere else and now. i'd be like well babe listen you've got. to contend with snoring you've got to.

deal with it i'd give him a list of. reasons why i've probably helped your. life. what's he like as a father. oh the best. like. do you know what's mad is i kind of. when i when i speak about this it's it's. a really weird thing that sometimes sits. with me odd. and not because of. my dad and my childhood actually because. we spend a lot of time going. as a society people will say.

you're so lucky marv is such a good dad. and i'm like uh-huh he is and my. children are lucky to have a good dad i. get that totally get it because i didn't. have that i really get it but at the. same time there's always a part of me. that goes. he's doing what he should be doing. and we do all that oh it's daddy daycare. today. no he's just taking his kids out no one. says it's mummy daycare today or it's. well they're lucky to have a good mum. because it's assumed you should be a. good mum right. you should be a good mum you should be.

able to have a career. you know. be. be a hot a hot girl for your fella. you should. be an amazing there's a lot of pressure. that's put on women. in that perspective i really really. think so and i think so yes he is an. amazing dad and he is devoted and he is. patient and he is everything i'd want. him to be. everything that i would have wanted for. you know of a dad. but really at the same time i'm like no.

guess what he's stepping up to the plate. and i'm not taking anything away from. him because i really appreciate him and. we really do in my house he's a rock but. at the same time it's we live in this. weird. world where it's like you get a clap for. being a great dad. but if you're a mom and you're working. you're like oh she's out to work is she. not going to make the nativity on time. you know there's that like judgment for. doing what dads do if you're a mum it's. a really weird concept and it's.

something i wasn't aware of until i had. kids. so true i've actually never thought. about that before but that is so. incredibly true it's like a dad is. giving a trophy a few daddy daycare he's. taking them out again for the day. unbelievable. i literally did that every day this week. but no one said anything. you know it's bizarre it's bizarre to me. earlier on you said you talked about a. five-year plan. yeah so what is the michelle hume's. five-year plan. so in career it would be.

tv. i feel like i've got. enough. i feel like i don't want to i'm don't. want to saturate myself with stuff so. i'm trying to find a real balance of. there not being an announcement every. other week of something else i'm doing. and i'm so excited to announce now do i. i'd like balance so i would i love the. fact that me and marvin have a show. together that's a saturday night. entertainment show which is a family. show which is music it couldn't be it. couldn't be more perfect for us. i love that so i would love that to run.

until the end of time. i love what i do when i dip in and out. of daytime television that suits me in. terms of my business i want it to keep. growing at the rate that it is. that's really important to me. i obviously now manage myself which is a. very different thing and that was. something that was really crucial in my. five-year plan tell me why you made the. decision to move away from external. management and to manage yourself and. what does it mean to manage yourself. i've got my manager in the corner there. so. sell me on the upside.

this could get bloody awkward. so i i could never do it so i. i've been in this industry in. different forms. since. i was 12 years old so i was in scope. juniors when i was 12. i then did. presenting for kids television and then. obviously went into the group and then i. went back into telly after the group. ended. um. so i've always. a level of guidance throughout this.

because it's something that we all need. it's a crazy world right. but i've always. sort of been at the mercy at some of. somebody else. and i think i've been really lucky over. the years to work with some of the best. management. teams. in the industry i really really have and. i feel there was a time where i was. desperate to be managed before all of. this i want a manager and i want to. maybe they can make this happen for me.

and then. i got to a point where i feel like. in terms of tv. in terms of what i do for branding or. for how my job looks. i feel like. i'm not trying to build a name for. myself anymore in the sense of. a lot of the execs that these the. channels know me they know what i can do. if they want me for a certain thing. they're going to book me and yes i will. always pitch ideas and i'll have my own. ideas and they might take them or they.

might not but i got to a point. where i feel like. in terms of that i'm happy in what i'm. doing. and really. nobody knows me better than i know. myself. it felt like a new challenge i felt like. i didn't want to be part of a big. corporate firm where people it takes. people quite a while to get an answer. whether i want to do x y and z i'd like. someone to be able to. speak to me or one another. and.

i i could tell you when i'm on a. whatsapp ralph says thank you you want. to do no no don't waste your time let's. not take months to work up and offer and. present it to me because we've wasted. everybody's time so i wouldn't have done. it anyway. so i just felt like i got to a real. point where. it sounds like control. it does doesn't it it really does. consistent things it's what this podcast. is what this episode is going to be. called. control um but it really was actually. gaining that control back. like i didn't want to keep being advised. of what someone thinks i should do it's.

not like okay. you have a very clever business and a. clever firm there's a lot of numbers and. a lot of things i don't understand but. it's not like somebody's saying to you. this is what we need to do because of. xyz and this is how this is moving so we. need to go this and this is the market. we need to dominate. really people advising me on me because. my business is me. so. i know how i know what my vibe is. because i am the vibe i'm the verb yeah. um. so i think i just got to a point where i. thought it's time to empower myself.

and trust in that because there were. ideas being thrown around i'm like oh no. this isn't. oh this is so far off of me. so. yeah i had a real realization and. it was quite an emotional thing too. because it felt like a weird sort of. like a break up like. you know we've had a really good road. but i don't want this in the same way. anymore and it felt more that was the. hardest thing to do because i don't i. don't like upsetting people and.

and we've built friendships over the. years which i hope still remain and i'm. sure they will. but it was that that was harder than the. actual decision which told me everything. and you know what some of this is your. fault. uh thank you for coming rachelle we had. a great podcast i would like to say. thank you for clicking around because. you've said something and i think you. don't listen to what i saw no i did i. watched. you talking and you said. who had you'd met someone you met obama. oh you spoke to i couldn't find 51.

that. and i was like this is it and i. literally the next day i i called them. the next day. so it's actually sort of your fault. so the context on that is when i saw me. and obama both spoke on the same stage. in sao paulo um a couple of years back. in brazil and one of the things he. talked about on stage was when he had to. make the decision whether to take out. osama bin laden or not they didn't have. all the information they have like.

tip offs and they have little snippets. of information that suggests bin laden. is hiding in that that complex in. pakistan but they never know 100. and there's lives at risk he's sending. in 20 or 40 american soldiers to go to. fly into pakistan at night in these. helicopters and if they get caught if. they get shot down then he's gonna have. to you know sit with that for the rest. of his life but he says when you're the. president of the united states and you. have these huge decisions to make you're. never going to get to 100 certainty so.

what he did which i really do believe in. is once you get to like 51 certainty on. your decision then make it and be at. peace that you did the best with the. information you had because so many. people and this is kind of what he. didn't say but what i took from it is. what ends up happening is the. procrastination of the decision. um ends up costing you more in the long. term than actually just making the. decision and finding out if you're right. or wrong because like it's the same in. business if i i'm thinking about. something but i'm not entirely sure but. i suspect it's the right thing i should.

just go ahead and make the decision. and then find out hopefully in the next. couple of months whether i was right if. i was wrong i can actually just reverse. the decision again. but a lot of people spend like years. remunerating over these like. relationship decisions or work decisions. or professions they cost themselves 10. years which does more damage than the. decision itself at 51 would have done. exactly that so and i honestly. it was like i listened to that at the. best time. then the next day i did it. and i honestly felt.

the. the reason that i knew as soon as i'd. done it that i'd that i knew it was. right well i knew anyway but the. reassurance i had is i felt the. emotional side of it i hated i hated. you know. the phone call and the. meeting and the you know letting people. feeling like i've let somebody down and. in the sense of upsetting them because. they would have probably liked to have. continued working together so i felt i. don't want to upset anyone it's not bad. blood it's just making a decision i need.

to make for myself. and. i felt. shitty first of all because i felt like. oh god do you think they're really upset. do you think. but that's. that's all i felt. everything else i felt like i had just. had a massage and a weight was off my. shoulders and i was like okay right now. we go isn't it funny how we always know. um we always know. i was ready i felt like i needed to. celebrate the only thing i felt bad.

about was potentially upsetting. somebody. but everything else was right everything. else there was like i felt like oh thank. goodness i've done that there's so many. people listening to this podcast now. that know. the answer to a decision and in fact. because of that psychological discomfort. associated with making the phone call. letting someone down they procrastinate. off into the future but they know. you know like i always think with the. major decisions in my life especially. the ones which i really did dither and. procrastinate over and regretted not. making quicker i knew early and i.

actually talked myself out of it because. i was trying to avoid that discomfort of. confronting it and that's what it is. it's the. like. when i say confrontation and it's not in. the aggressive sense it's that. actually having to deliver that news. that's the what some when you know. something's right and you know it's. something you want to do and you are 51. plus. percent sure. the hardest thing you have to do is. deliver it so do you know what i said i.

was like i've just got to put my big. girl pants on as i call him i'm going to. pull up my big girl pants. and. if that's the worst part of this. then that is just do you know me if that. is the worst part the worst part is that. essentially you're a good person because. you like you said you don't want to. upset so you're skirting around it. because you don't want to actually have. to say it. but you know it's right and that will. nine times out of ten be the worst part. i think is delivering it because you.

know it's right for you and your journey. and you just have to lean into that and. just. get the balls too and it's that once. you've done it you'll feel. you will just feel so liberated it's. crazy. we have a tradition on this podcast. which is a fairly new tradition where. the previous guest. asks the next guest a question oh and i. actually i don't know whether people. believe me or not i actually don't know. the question because what happens is. they sign it they pass the book to jack. and then jack places this in front of me.

the next time we have a guest okay so. i'm going to read this one for you. what would you like to pay attention to. that you don't currently pay attention. to. and why. oh that's a really good question. do you know what i would like to pay. more attention to. this is and this isn't. i'm not a bad person by the way you. don't need to worry. i would really like to pay more. attention to my dog. okay is this really this is really a.

simple answer i know. however. i work a lot in the day marvin works. evening so he's around a lot in the day. so he does all the stuff with the dog. but when i walk through the door she. loves me so much. so unconditionally. i think i've not even seen you all day. and she's around and you know yes we. might we've gone out for the walk and. i'm doing the kids and then i've got. what you know. and then i think oh i've not really like. laid on the sofa and really like.

made the most of you it almost feels. undeserved doesn't it to some degree. yeah the excitement i get from my dog. after i've walked through the door after. a month in new york. yeah you'd expect them to be pissed off. in the corner like that oh yeah now. you're rolling this time yeah. what don't you call this yeah so i feel. like i would like to this is really yeah. i'm going to sound like a really bad dog. owner i promise you i'm not she's she. has so much love but i would just like. to give her a bit more attention. rochelle thank you thank you for coming. here today and having this conversation.

with me it's been. incredibly uh inspiring it's taught me a. bunch of lessons about the importance of. authenticity as well and being your true. self because i can tell from you know. this um brief encounter that you are. you're you've kind of leaned into your. own authentic self and that's and it's. so evidently clear where that's taking. you in terms of fulfillment and being a. solid human being and your kindness and. your empathy and that's really what i. take from you there's so much. inspiration surrounding how the hell. you're managing to juggle three kids and. build this business and all that stuff. but the overarching feeling is you just.

feel like this very bright light i know. you're bad at taking compliments because. i know you said so in an interview or. two but i've not i've just not mastered. that yeah yeah yeah. yeah i just can't thank you i appreciate. it i just can't say thanks i'm just like. oh no i'm not no it's fine. but you are you're an incredibly bright. light and um. that's probably also why you've built. such a phenomenal community because that. comes through like you can't act like a. good person you either are you aren't. and you clearly definitely are so thank. you for giving me your presents today. and thank you for all the wisdom it's. been incredibly um fruitful conversation.

for me and i'm sure everyone listening. has enjoyed it thank you i've really. enjoyed it thank you thank you. [Music]. oh. [Music]. [Music]. [Music]. you.