Rio Ferdinand's Reveals The Training Ground & Dressing Room Secrets That Made United Unbeatable!

i don't see barriers hard work every day. is a lifestyle. it should be like a standard dedication. attention to detail. i just wanted to be the best i was that. obsessed with it my kids lost they lost. their. their mum i got to understand mental. health for making a documentary it's. allowed me to kind of speak and. show vulnerability that people probably. were never used to the great part of it. is that you walk down the street an old. age lady or a man come up to you you. know what. throat's all croaky and i watched your. program. i've never spoken before really you.

helped me. like my next phase of my life when. someone sees me in. 10 20 years say that's where i paid for. my united i haven't really done what i'm. here to do to set and setting out to do. do i even need to introduce my next. guest rio. ferdinand former football player one of. the most decorated. english footballers of all time and as a. man united fan probably one of my. favorite players.

of all time ever and he's played. alongside some of the greatest players. ever. but he's also been managed by the best. manager ever. i grew up as a manchester united fan. watching him idolizing him. and now he's my mate so this is going to. be a fairly. interesting conversation after retiring. he's become a sports commentator for bt. sport he's become. an author he's become an entrepreneur. he's the founder of a charity a. foundation. he's a non-executive director which. we'll talk about today as well. and as you'll hear he's also so much.

more some things that you probably. wouldn't expect. he's also a husband and a dad one that's. experienced. tremendous unthinkable tragedy tragedy i. pray that most of us will never know. rio is a special guy not least for what. he's achieved on the field but for who. he is and today you're going to find out. who he. actually is the philosophy to life that. he swears by. and the culture required to win in an. ambitious career but also. the culture required to win in your. personal life.

without further ado i'm stephen bartlett. and this is the director ceo. i hope nobody's listening but if you are. then please keep this to yourself. i'm trying to find the right words to. ask this question because it's one that. i've i haven't seen been asked in. previous interviews with you but what. are the what are the key things that. happened. when you were very very young that made. you. choose football as your future or.

enabled you to to take that path because. a lot of kids grow up in london a lot of. kids do a lot of things they have a lot. of passions but for some reason. as i read through your story football. was this. ballet as well but football was the the. path that you chose to take. above all other things yeah it's a good. question because when i was younger i. was into everything. i was running around on the estate i was. doing gymnastics. a couple of times a week i was doing. ballet i was obviously playing football. i was doing athletics.

i was doing a drama class why were you. doing all those things there because i. just was interested. in it all i liked it i enjoyed it and my. mum and dad were really my mom. especially were really like if you like. something go and do it. try it they were always like that go and. do it what's. the worst it can do is you you don't. enjoy it i used to do karate sometimes. as well. and i got to a point i think i was like. 13 or 14 years old and obviously my dad. was having to come from east like. obviously we lived in south london he'd. drive to east northeast london.

drive home pick me up from school take. me to west london to play football. back to dropping friends off on the way. is hard graft. and in the end i got to 13 14 years old. and my dad said listen. you're doing a lot at the moment you're. going to burn yourself out so. let's just pick something that you. really enjoy and you want to do. and just go for it and i was like it was. that an easy. conversation it was difficult you know i. had to let down our fault. and disappoint central school of ballet.

where i was doing it which is a real. like a top score in london in farringdon. and i made good friends there and. the other stuff i wasn't too that. concerned about it but. four years i was three or four years i. was at the central school of ballet so. i've got. good relationships there told them i. couldn't do it and then. went full throttle and full steam ahead. of with football and it was just. it was the best decision i obviously. made. in my life in that sense but i was i. knew that that was my passion. i liked the other stuff i enjoyed doing. the other stuff there were good.

distractions from what was probably. going on my estate as well probably my. parents fault like that as well. but football was the something that i. got up every day from when i knocked on. my friend's ass. borrow ship or let's go and play. football et cetera so. ballet hmm interesting one a lot of. people don't know. that you did ballet and i but it sounds. like you did at a pretty good level. yeah i've done gymnastic gymnastics at. the london olympic games and they. obviously i didn't notice there were. scouts there. from from ballet schools or someone was. watching our family and friend was there.

and they said ah. he looks like he i don't know how what i. had or what i was. my posture or something like that looks. good to be a ballet dancer. so i went there and i wasn't really one. for saying no to stuff i was like. i'll try it i'll try anything and they. said and one of the reasons i was going. to be able to get off my estate. meet new people new girls maybe as a. young kid. and then it was in a different part of. london traveling. so i've done it it's funny i read i read. a tweet the other day which was kind of. linked to something you said there and.

it said on the way up say yes to. everything. when you get to the top start saying no. to everything yeah yeah and it sounds. like yeah and it's like and i'm almost. saying that as well when we the. conversation we're having now about like. the stuff you're up to now. now yeah like what is what's that i. always think this what's the worst way. that can happen as long as it's not a. health issue. i might fail i might i might not be good. at it i might have foul who cares like. with a boxing. i wanted to go trying to be from a. professional footballer just trying to. be a professional boxer. crazy yeah but what's the worst that can.

really happen. i lose the fight my life goes on that's. it so. but some people they can't allow their. ego to be. squashed maybe at a certain point or. their pride. and they're sitting there as this macho. person that they can't. feel vulnerable at any point and when. you try things. there is an element of vulnerability. that comes with that because you're. opening yourself up you're leaving. yourself a bit wide open. for criticism for failure but i'm not. scared of failure. i never have been i'm not i'm not.

fearful and that's what i try and put in. my kids. if you fail what get up and go again. people like they they trap themselves in. their career in their sense their sort. of self-identity because. we were talking before we started. chatting about like me trying to resist. my labels now i've left social chain. they think they are an x but from a very. very young age and i'm kind of. connecting the dots now through the rest. of your life and even now. you worse you were a kid on the estate. in peckham. and that is an identity that's not one. that's also conducive with ballet. no is that it's just such a different. end of the spectrum yeah like you just.

wouldn't associate one with the other. and again i i wasn't we were speaking. just as you mentioned before before he. came on here. one of the things that i my mom used to. say to me is that don't let anyone tell. you what you are. don't be pigeon holed i mean you go and. find out and explore and find out what. you are. and you gotta have experiences to get to. that point it's not gonna happen. overnight it's not gonna happen in your. childhood. not in your teens when you get to become. an adult you'll start working your way. and finding out who you are and what you. are. and i've always thought that so going to.

a ballet school i could have been. ridiculed. my mates i was one of the boys on the. estate but at the same time i was. confident enough that. i really again ballet laughing i don't. care what. and i know i'm good at football i know. i'm good i'm the fastest runner on the. estate in my age group. i can keep up with the older boys what. because i go badly what there's nothing. wrong. who are you to answer that question you. know your mum's telling you to go out. and find out who you are. did you ever answer that question not. really i think that question you don't. really answer it in the end i think.

you're always evolving it's like for. instance it's something you said earlier. it. pricked my ears about you said moles the. same thing just in a different way. probably a more elegant way about not. wanting to be pigeonholed and. like my aim in my life now like people. think you've played football and you've. done all these amazing things as a. footballer. i i've done really well i acknowledge. that but. it's like understatement but i don't. that's not enough for me. like my next phase of my life i don't. want to be remember when someone sees me. my success in my next phase of life is.

when someone sees me and says that's rio. do you know rio. and they mentioned something that i'm. doing or i've done around that time. not that's rio's a footballer if people. were in. 10 20 years say that's where i paid for. my united. i ain't really kicked on i haven't. really done what i'm. i'm here to do to setting out to do. which is to evolve and become something. different. and make something of myself somewhere. else and i think my my family were a lot. like that whether my mum and dad was. successful or not. they were always to us make something of.

yourself be something. nothing there's no there's no barriers. to that so that's the way i've always. kind of. thought about things what if it what if. i said to you. now how would you feel if i said you. couldn't ever do anything else and that. like the football thing was it and now. just. i just laugh i'd laugh it would make me. laugh because i i don't see no. i don't see barriers yeah and. unfortunate as well by the way i. understand that i've got to a position. where there are a lot of boundaries that. have been kind of put down. yeah yeah for me to skip over because of.

my career as a footballer. yeah and you you're getting that now as. someone who's been really successful in. your field so. you see that color and age et cetera get. put to the side because i. always we acknowledge what you've done. yeah yeah yeah and so we do sometimes. have a easy there's not as big a barrier. to entry for certain things for us but. then you've still got to go in and. produce. you've still got to go and prove. yourself and so even things that i've. i've gone on the board now for a company. the gym group as a ned oh really yeah.

which is. it's out of my comfort zone because i. like. fitness but i don't understand the. business behind that and what goes into. having actual having 125 180 sites. and managing that and there's a property. arm and there's a commercial run and. there's a market. and that all coming together under one. umbrella and having to manage all that. and to be a part of those conversations. like. that stuff is what excite i i'm super. interested in that type of stuff. in the workings behind the mechanics of. all these type of businesses different. different industries.

so that's what i like do you feel like. you're depth. yeah but i always find something what i. can clear on to that. i just try and find something within a. conversation that would. allow me to to to to gain confidence. through talking in that conversation. i might not understand everything and. when the conversation's finished and the. laptop's closed i'll. i'll be somewhere looking and finding. out i didn't understand that i'll call. that person back or call someone on that. on that call.

just to clear up a few things i haven't. quite grasped. but there'll be something within that. conversation where i feel that i can add. some sort of value. i think all of that is a com is a very. again very synonymous as to why you're. like even sat here today because a lot. of people. in that situation would a just [ __ ]. avoid it from the jump. and then b if they encounter something. they don't understand on the call. they'll probably bounce then or. they definitely wouldn't inquire because. by inquiring you're actually making. yourself vulnerable. yeah yeah a lot of people don't want to. avoid vulnerability right being exposed.

and it's so funny that the people that. from what i'm hearing from you like the. people that achieve the most success. are the ones that are at some point. willing to look [ __ ] stupid yeah you. gotta do that like no one gets to. where they're gonna get on the cleanest. without a bump on the road yeah you. don't get. like that you have to have bumps in the. road to be able to get there to. experience them. vulnerable moments so that when you are. there you know what it's like. and then you can drag people up with you. yeah yeah and you become stronger with. more. people that's how i always think there's. a lot of people when i get to the top. and stay on the top of the mountain on. their own and don't want to bring no one.

up i don't agree with that. i'm always like i want to share and help. and because that. is the foundations of me being stronger. for a longer period of time and can. sustain. success but it is it is. i don't know it's another an important. thing for me as well which i'm. again i'm never scared to do is to ask. questions. like it's the same thing with football. you don't understand something my. manager's telling you our coach is. telling you. don't go away and and have a bit of a. blurred. idea of what it is because then you're.

going to be judged on that. not understanding and not executing it's. going to repeat. exactly so you want good habits but. you've got to understand what it is. before you can create a habit. so that's why i'll try and always ask. questions if i'm if i'm wrong if. i feel i'm not sure and i'll definitely. ask questions not crazy. you've achieved all the success you're a. football legend and yet you're still. voluntarily. throwing yourself into really. uncomfortable situations which you don't. need to be in. yeah in terms of finance anyway like you. don't need to be at all in terms of like. a. status you don't need to be there and.

it's funny because. there's loads of people that aren't. haven't achieved that that are. that will never throw themselves into. uncertainty. but it's it's but again this is probably. why they're the ones that stay where. they are yeah exactly that's probably. why you sat here. yes they don't grow they don't yeah and. like and all those people who will stay. there some of them are like oh i just. want to stay here but. a lot of them they're scared to open up. because of that vulnerability and them. feeling silly. if they're told that you got it wrong. but it's not. i i'm not like that everyone's on this.

earth for different reasons and then. some people happy just to be. like stay in a situation they're in and. be very happy just. going along that that road and no spikes. or drops. i i'd rather have a drop at some point. but to get i know that spike's gonna. come somewhere. through being able to do the things. we're talking about. quick one starting from the minute the. lockdown is lifted we're going to start. bringing in some of our subscribers to. watch how this podcast is produced. behind the scenes. means you get to meet the guests meet. myself and see how we put all of this.

together. if you want that to be you all you've. got to do hit the subscribe button. in your in your group front group chat. with your friends from uh. from your estate i heard there's a group. chat um you've been doing the research. i didn't need to research your career. because i was there watching but just. you know. it was i was intrigued by when you said. you got this group chat with your your. friends from back home and stuff and one. of the. topics of conversation is something that. i talk about a lot in this podcast which. is. there's a growing culture of like. softness.

there i say it and like avoiding. discomfort and. also there's this crazy thing on. instagram at the moment which is like. demonizing hard work as if it's like. because of the mental health. revolution we've had and everyone's. which is a great thing and everyone's. aware of the impact. you know of this thing called mental. health there's now this other thing. which is like. well you can overwork and you can burn. yourself out and hard work if i advise. as an entrepreneur. even though i've never met someone or. had anyone sit in the seat who didn't. work hard. then i'm somewhat toxic because i'm.

telling people that's. success and hard work yeah yeah and it's. like you're you're you're looking down. on people. yeah almost like and i listen i don't. agree with none of that. i've got to be honest work hard man that. should be just an. absolute normal ask of any person and. that and that i always keep talking. about my kids because. they're a big part of my life but that's. all i talk about my kids when they talk. to me about school. football washing up you chill that's. what's been one of the great things that. we've had a lot of negativity about. the covid uh situation in this country.

staying at home etc at home schooling. and one of the great things to come out. of it for us as a family. these kids know their chores and they're. doing them properly and that's why i say. do your choice right because them habits. there will lead on to. other things in your life going forward. your football stuff you won't take short. short cuts you're taking shortcuts over. your work shortcuts for your football. shortcuts make in your bed shortcuts. with your school work homework et cetera. it will all be the same you need high. standards everywhere but are you scared.

that. because they've grown up within a. different circumstance to what you had. well i always have you true this. conversation what you're not going to. say. yeah like i'm trying to instill that in. in them. how do you do that when they live that's. like a really nice house and they've got. that is. that is the guy who comes up with this. the the the answers for that. is the main man right because it's so. difficult i was doing a podcast. yesterday with um. eddie hearn oh yeah and he's like the. generation my children are so his father.

was. well off successful and he was where my. children are now and he was saying like. one of the things that he was he was. scared of being that rich kid. yeah which i mean and so he done. everything not to go out and work. and to go and have a hard hard. hard-working mentality and to. be a success himself our friend tomorrow. is the same um. exactly so um all three of them by the. way i like that all three of them. come on your kids which i mean they are. exactly the same in terms of.

they've gone out to they never had to. work their parents. would spoil them and they've all. knuckled down and said yeah we've been. given an opportunity. now you've got to go and execute and. they've gone executed beyond belief yeah. and i see. mahmoud who's of boohoo. who's the father of omar and the guys. and that's what i say to a man you must. be so happy man. what do you mean your kids man what. they're doing. how hard they work created these wicked. businesses but you gave them.

opportunity but what they've done with. that you can't you can't be disappointed. he said no man he said that. for me to sit here and just see them. what they're doing what they're doing. that's where i want to be man. and it doesn't matter how much money you. make or how big of a business business. my success as a parent is that my kids. get up every day. they got a work ethic and they do stuff. to the best of their ability if they can. if they do that whether whatever job. they're in. they do that and i think you've done. you've laid the foundations for good. a good life for your kids whether it's.

in. you know you talk there about having. high standards been one of the really. important things for your kids. this is something that clearly you know. was demonstrated when you got to old. trafford. and you joined manchester united um with. for that record transfer. but how did how did they create high. standards at old trafford. versus the other clubs you'd played at. what you know west ham and leeds etc. what was it they were doing. that kept those standards so high you. then also talk about going to qpr and. seeing low standards. and a certain type of negativity in the.

changing room but what was it that they. were doing. or not doing because i want to create. high standards in my team and within my. life so. [Music]. good habits right every day good habits. whether it's punctuality again work. ethic. attention to detail intensity. when you're training on a training pitch. respecting each other. but all those things just they come. together and it creates a culture. at the club and i've been at west town.

i've been at leeds. two very good clubs great clubs um. but they they didn't have that that. culture. which meant there was ability to win but. it starts from somewhere so alex. alex ferguson already won aberdeen so he. he knew how to create that culture. he went to maine united didn't have that. winning mentality at the time when he. went there. he created that and it all stems i. always think great leadership is. definitely what gives you an opportunity. to be successful and i. i noticed that throughout my career and.

when you've you've set the foundations. and you've created that culture you. don't as a. as a leader have to be there every day. in that sense he was at a training. ground every day. how many times do you think he came into. our change room no idea. you wouldn't fill one hand really no. never came in a change room. in the training ground we're there every. day because he he knew that the culture. was set and then he had lieutenants. like me giggsy gary neville etc who were. then.

filtering that down to any of the. younger players on the new signs. who didn't know the culture yet and then. then those players became the. the culture leaders and so it was it was. crazy man. and even for instance if he wasn't at. the training ground watching training. the training intensity might drop that. little. one percent two percent but you'd notice. it because the manager's not there. because he wasn't in the building. because he wasn't he didn't you didn't. feed him that aura that. he could be on his phone making bets. which he normally would be not. interested in training but his presence. alone was enough.

and it just made when you look back and. you think this leadership is just key. and we're talking about investing. earlier yeah you know investing in the. the leader the people yeah the people. like it's so important i think and. i think every industry it's like that. football's where i'm from and that's. what it's like there but i see what. since i've retired. that's replicated in other industries. hundred percent isn't it funny as well. with culture. because you're right what you said there. is basically like what i've. something i used to think of social. change which is if a culture is strong. enough new people become like the. culture. if this culture is weak the culture.

becomes like the new people 100. yeah i mean you couldn't have put it any. better. and i'll give you an example like. and again i didn't i didn't say it as. eloquently as that one husband football. but. berbatov came to maine united oh yeah. casual babs. he was wicked player beautiful touch. sexy looking footballer wicked. and before big champions league again my. fingers barcelona. he just weren't working hard enough for.

the team and. i need i had the ball on this side of. the pitch and i needed him to come over. and help. he's just walking that and i ended up. just kicking the ball off and going. crazy. will you do get over wait when i get. over. then we'll do it and that's again that's. not our culture. at barcelona they play they wait that's. their culture that's not our culture. you want to play barcelona away go. barcelona here it's not the same. and if you don't buy into our culture. you won't be here long. and that's the way it was at united if.

you came and you weren't in the co you. didn't buy into the culture. and immerse yourself in it and become. part of the fabric of the place. you weren't there more than a year or. two or you definitely wasn't an integral. member of that squad. and so it was definitely like you say. the culture is just. you have to become part of that culture. that you go into if it's strong enough. you see this in business it's crazy you. should do i feel like the perspective. you've got from being in that changing. room and understand because this it's. the same principles in business. it was the same at social chain and when. we grew the company and i realized that.

i had to be like did you drive that a. hundred percent. and my like it got to the point where. what you've described is. people would understand who we were. without us having to say. and you'd have your disciples basically. introducing new people to the company. and going that's not a social chain. thing to do and we'd get that all the. time you'd say your people in office. okay and for example and the crazy the. other point i was going to say is. when the culture's that strong you it's. so easy to see when someone doesn't fit. well. they don't stand out we had you know. someone start on their first day at.

social chain. and they're doing their initiation and. then they at the end of the initiation. they did two middle fingers and then. walked back to their desk. i said go get him we fired him he's gone. first day at social chain and then the. second the second instance where and it. sends a message to the team. because they i never knew it was. instinctive to me i said that's not the. same person get them out there was. another instance where we had a girl. join. who someone had hired and they told me. that she used to like bully people at. her last place and she had like a really. bad attitude and stuff and actually one. of the guys two of the guys in our team. said oh yeah we used to work with her. and she was a bit of a bully so.

uh i i remember having the conversation. and i said you can't. like in a very very nice way i said she. she can't be here tomorrow. because that's not who we are here and. that my team were like but we need her. for this client we need her for this. project i was uncompromising i said no. we're not having her here. i don't care if we lose the job you know. i can't i say to my team. i can't have my name attached to a. culture like where we have people in it. who are like that so she's gone today. we'll figure it out if we lose the. client whatever and and it wasn't until. years later that you hear the team come.

back to you and they say that moment. where you. you weren't willing to let that person. be needed in the team because they. weren't right for the culture. the team said that to me and that's. exactly what i hear from you i'm not. blowing to make up my own ass because i. didn't realize that you've recognised. that. it was it was it wasn't intentional it. was i just. wanted to enjoy my life in the company. to be a really really clear certain way. and i felt that that's what we needed to. do to succeed and in hindsight. and as you say it to me i'm like oh yeah. it was being unnegotiable right yeah and. that's what cerex ferguson was great at. if he saw something that was going to be.

detrimental to the culture of the club. it was out that was non-negotiable even. if you needed them. so you look at roy keane yeah he's the. captain was the leader. the rule's been broken you're gone david. beckham. peak of his powers going out of a spice. girl. bringing all sorts of eyeballs to the. football club making an international. play. see you later yap stam the best center. half in the world at the time. said something about some of the players. in a book or something goodbye.

rude van isteroy the best number nine in. the world at the time. goodbye like if you don't. fit the culture and you don't adhere to. the rules that are there. good night and we'll move on and we'll. build around other people. it's great it's like and where at the. time you sit there and you think bex you. can't sell beck's man. jesus who's going to come in like it's. like. number seven sells all the shirts like. everyone loves him everywhere we go. bex is like beatles like crazy.

same with rudra and history you're. thinking how are we going to score goals. now man who's gonna squash the goals. rooney and and ronaldo are really young. still inexperienced. but he had that belief and that vision. just to like it was the culture over. everything. that's a big club no one's bigger than. the club it's so true man. and again like you say that reverberates. around a dressing room. right you better stay in line you better. just like live by the rules that are. here already. and stay part of that culture the hard.

work the intensity. the respect and so that you. he would dig out the most experienced. player who hasn't even done anything and. you'd sit there and go what like. what are you shouting me for but he was. doing that to you because he knew you. could take it but the effect that i have. on the young ones or the other ones. which i mean so playing the mind games. man i love it it's good but you only. it's the mad thing is anyone you're in. it like you're saying you're talking. about social change you probably didn't. realize at the time. but when you sit back and you're outside. and you look back in that bubble you.

think. [ __ ] man yeah that's why i didn't think. about it but that's why i've done it. yeah he's right yeah and i'm right now. or i'm wrong whatever it is. i mean that's how we think about like. certain things that fergie done you. think actually. he weren't just lucky man he actually. obviously was. plotting and planning that type of stuff. i am i wonder how much of that stuff was. intentional with him though in terms of. like. he i'm sure he wasn't going in the back. room and planning it it's just like. surely it's just like who he was.

and i sometimes think you know you get. managers that will come into clubs and. they'll try and be like fergie. but you can't because you can't act for. that long and that consistently. because from what you're saying about. fergie it's like it's not like four. things he's doing it's a thousand. things he's doing consistently which. show his values. right and you can't act for 27 years. whatever it is across a thousand touch. points so it makes me feel like. how do you teach that like it was it. wasn't phil almost was like it wasn't. just instinctive to fergie. yeah i think it was instinctive he was.

he's that's just him and don't forget. his experience as well would have played. a big part in that. he was at the club for like 26 or so. years 27 years so that's there's a. valuable amount of experience gained in. that time but. i always look at it like when i went. into the main united change room i sat. there. and just looked around and thought who's. good at what and let me just take. elements of. these people and add it to my my game. and my. preparation and my recovery and that's. what i've done ryan giggs was great at. recovery and. preparation done yoga and stuff like.

that took that out of these. of his book roy keane leadership the way. he demanded. standards on a daily basis skulls these. best levels in training every day like. all them think i was just trying to. try to be like little peop parts of. different people. and then that allows hopefully for you. to grow into a better person a better. player etc. and i think that's the same with with. other industries and business since i've. retired it's like. you go in and try and be like someone. else you're gonna fail because you can't.

be like the original but if you're. taking bits from elsewhere you might be. able to get beyond that. what you see as the best because you're. getting more you're taking more good. things from that person but then from. various other people to build maybe past. that and that's the way i try and. work with stuff now in my life there's. no one person i'm going to make that's. going to make me. the best at what i want to be but a. group. and taken from everywhere i've got a. better chance. people never talk about the things that. fergie was bad at well roy keane does. but. other than that i never hear people. saying and i've got his book somewhere. knocking around as well but.

you never hear players talking about. some of the things where you think you. know i actually think he would have gone. been more successful if he didn't do. that thing. do you know if it's weird when people. die or when people retire. yeah you only remember the good stuff. really interesting you only think about. what they. their their existence before becomes. magnified and. you they're built up even bigger. sometimes. and fergie i think that's with him as. well because you just don't. you don't think i can think of instances.

or or tactics you've got wrong. that's easy to find but but he'd always. make stuff right it was weird like um. even for instance the anti-racism stuff. and the situation was only sort of. documenting my brother yeah yeah yeah so. he went to a couple awards actually. yesterday. as well yeah so he um. the situation happened with him and john. terry. and i decided not to wear the next or. one of during that period.

once a year all the teams are given. t-shirts show races and the red card or. kick racism out one of the campaigns. i wasn't willing to wear it because i. didn't believe that they. supported enough in the durian that's. that time so i said i'm not wearing it. he went crazy find me i was like. we end up winning the game which was. okay was lucky but the next day. i went into his office to just try and. explain to him why i hadn't won. the t-shirt and to be fair he said you. know what i understand.

and i'm sorry for the way i reacted. but like stuff like that he might make a. mistake or he'd done that wrong but he'd. always rectify it always come back. around you get you back around somehow. and because he was just like a i don't. know he just. he knew how to deal with people he knew. how to treat people to get the best out. of him for what he's main goal was. how'd you teach that i don't know man. that's just i think that's something. that's inside. being able to deal with people read. people treat your team.

do i mean so that they're running. through brick walls for you because you. come in a room and he'd say to you. you're not playing. and i'd be you'd want to scream and. you'd be like blood would be boiling. but you'd leave the room and you're. going to change room. and you're sitting in there gene. everyone up come on boys not sulking. because he's told you tuesday you're. playing because i need you for that game. you missed this one this is a big game. but you're going to play on tuesday. like normally you miss a game you you.

want to go home and cry. about it i mean but he's managed to. build you back up and that's my. management. and in any industry that's that's like a. massive part of. again the culture but maintaining. sustaining a successful company of a. successful football club. you need to be able to build people pick. them up knock them down sometimes but be. able to keep them on that track with you. the contradiction i hear with within. like the story you recount of sir alex. versus the one i see in the newspapers. is you hear about the you know kicking. the football boot at beckham and this. guy who on this who on the sidelines.

looks like he's out of control but what. you're describing. is like super self-aware yeah calculated. and he's actually. pretending to be out of control when he. needs to be we used to talk about all. the time sashimi and emmanuel vidic. and veda is a deep guy loves talking. about deep style gets deep into. stuff yeah he loves it like it's just a. matter he just loves like to. be on behind well how is he thinking. about that etc. just always talk about the manager and. like. you look back and say anything.

everything he done was like calculated. like. the way he spoke on the tv blaming the. ref. so very rarely did he come on he didn't. come on tv and ever hammer none of the. players individually. we could lose a game and the referee. would be the [ __ ] the back page the next. day. but he's taking the heat of us he's. making us think about it's not us. we're not down in the doldrums it's. because of the referee that's dangerous. sometimes. you've got ideas about yourself. accountability but he makes there's. enough self accountability in the.

building. but also the focus is over there now not. on us as a team so we go again. without that pressure oh they've lost. they're not as good anymore. but the referee was a reason so i mean. just like that's just like calculated. this is what i'm doing for the goodness. of my team and the betterment of my team. is good man. but people think anger and like you were. a player that wasn't wasn't afraid to. shout someone i heard you talking about. some of the players you gave a hard time. like anderson et cetera. what what is still yeah in the what's. that group. yeah really yeah what role does anger.

play in leadership then because you see. it in football. but if if i were to start screaming at. people in the same. way that you did to i don't know berber. or whatever imagine if i just [ __ ]. kicked this table and said. what the [ __ ] the camera is not working. i would be i'd. be cancelled everyone would walk out. yeah i talk about this with my missus. quite a lot now we like. some of the stuff that we are when we're. talking about memories and whatnot and. how we spoke to someone so. or what's happening in the change room. would never happen in the office. because it's like you say it's like that.

that relationship's over. it's gone too far whereas you could have. a fight at football and then you're. shaking hands and having a laugh in the. shower after. it's so different it's just a different. way of of working but. i think it's understanding people i. don't think you treat any two people the. same. in that sense like the blanket treatment. i don't think is the best way to treat a. team. because everyone's different everyone. takes advice differently everyone takes. criticism. differently so you've got to be able to. pick the right people to be able to.

shout out to pick the right people. you've got to get an arm around. and and that's about as again a manager. a captain knowing that team knowing that. play that the players individually. all this coming into work and ghosting. everybody. is mad i don't get it i don't think you. can create that environment. for success if you're going to come in. and not know nobody. and that's another one of these so. alex's great traits is that he knew. everything about everyone. like if you're you're my granddad i was. in hospital once met my granddad. probably twice.

in the uh players lounge after a game. knew my granddad's favorite drink brandy. the flower was turned up on my mom's. house which i mean it's like. that stuff there then people are coming. to work for you every day. after stuff like that it's little things. little details not any time out of your. diary really. his pa probably done it all yeah but his. name's at the bottom. it's like big it's little. little percentages like that are just a. key it's funny because.

those little gestures help help you know. that he does care about you regardless. of what happens on the training ground. or in the match. fundamentally he cares about you and. wants you to do well and he's. you know what i mean you're not enemies. you are in so i think. by him saying that's the foundation it's. clear that having that as a foundation. allows him to put pressure on in the. right places it seems. yeah and he and you're not his mate yeah. ever well really no you're not you're. not he's mate i speak to him more now. than i did when i played. really because there was that line. and that he felt was always needed to be.

there that we can have a little laugh. here and there but in the end of the day. i'm the manager. you guys do your thing there and have a. laugh etc but then there's that line you. don't go past. so but you just got it right and i think. that's down to experience as well. he would have learned that and a lot of. the guys so you say he was he was even. crazier before you guys came. when he was younger so he's obviously. work. and he worked out as well did the new. generation of player. couldn't take that.

anger and that craziness. like the old generation like probably my. generation probably the last generation. that he could do that with. the next ones the younger ones the. andersons the nannies the ronaldo's etc. that's not the way that they would they. would they don't respond as well to that. type of. criticism and anger and aggressiveness. what was that anguish you ever saw him. too many times not too many times the.

times when he kicked the boot at bex's. head was it was a. and you're in that crazy one yeah that. was crazy what happened. wouldn't it be great if we could make. looking after yourself your nutrition. and your health. cool again and i think this is. ultimately what hule has done in my life. and as i reflect on the last couple of. years that huel has been the easiest way. for me to become a better human and for. me being a better human meant having. better health. it meant better having mental health. more energy being more focused in my. work. and that's exactly what you've done for. me i hope we can make being healthier.

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privilege um that i'm glad to know. what was that angriest you ever saw him. too many times not too many times the. times when he kicked the boot at bex's. head was a. and you're in that crazy one yeah that. was crazy what happened. it was uh it was mad it was it was funny. man it was actually funny i gotta be. honest i can't lie. but the manager was he kicked the boot. in anger because he asked bex to do. something tactically that he didn't. carry out. and he booted and listen anybody i don't.

care what ronaldo's playing today on. messi. wouldn't have hit the target the way hit. the target it was it was so clean. and the ball went in slow-mo like bang. and it hit him in the head and then. obviously beck scott was upset got up. and. i remember the gaffer was devastated you. could tell he could see when he looked. at him he sat down he was just slumped. almost. like he that's not what he'd done he. kicked the boot for he kicked it in. anger and it accidentally hit. backs in the head so he looked. devastated of it but.

that was one that was i had a few. scrapes of him in terms of. i didn't agree with things that he'd. done a couple of times and i was. screaming and he didn't he didn't take. too well to it and. he lost it and he just would go purple. over the top of you and just spray you. screaming in front of you like that like. crazy. so but he was uh what it was it was. never personal which is that why you. respected it and you kind of it kind of. it kind of always was washed away. because. he you knew that deep down he wanted.

just want you to do well. i mean it wasn't vindictive it wasn't. personal just do what i'm telling you to. do. you will win i heard you say that that. culture isn't there now. it's it's all friendly now on it. everyone's mates everyone's like for. instance. everyone's mates and commenting on each. other's posts on social media. so you're more attached to someone. you're more involved with someone. whereas before i would only see certain.

players twice a year. home and away so i've got no attachment. to you so for to me have a bit of venom. or to go at you a little bit was normal. and i've got. no qualms about doing that because i. ain't going to see you again don't care. i might see you at england camp or. something like that but i don't i slack. three or four times a year so we're. colleagues exactly. we're not really matey whereas now in. the tunnel they're all shaking cuddling. yeah man comment on your post you have a. day. it's very different i'm not saying it's. bad but it's just different is it bad.

so i don't know it's just like it's it's. different so going into. into battle into a game. i've got no emotional ties or no social. media ties to anybody. so i can there seemed to be that bit. more it. i don't know if there's more passion. before to now but it seemed to be like. there was yeah. because i think all of this stuff is. social media makes it a bit more fluffy. and people are hugging and shaking hands. and whatnot. now because they've spoken or had a.

message or liked a post. very different me my my friends at my. manchester united chat when uh. one of the observations that we have all. the time is like why is why is everyone. been so nice to each other and. you i remember last week there was a. tweet went out from one of the. united um press people and it was just a. quote something harry mcguire had said. on the field. and he basically screamed i don't know. someone else yeah i need to like get. [ __ ] back in line or whatever. it's like trending on twitter yeah yeah. because i don't see it because you don't. see it anymore. and then and then also i you know love.

him love him or whatever but. watching uh ollie fist bump the managers. with a smile on his face. we've been grown up as united fans with. us we would. fergie would look [ __ ] furious to. even have to look at the. opposing manager and and it just feels. different now and then we look at where. we are and how we're performing in the. big games and we're not winning like we. used to. and we're all saying oh that you know. we're coming like arsenal or something. but we everyone always like clings on to. the history in it and.

that's that's the problem as a football. fan i'm the same like you just want it. to be like it was before. please right but it's never going to be. the same. it may be a successful or even more. successful one day but it will never be. the same. so our expectation then we'll sometimes. just have to change a little bit but. yeah i mean again like it was coming in. anyway because like for instance i. remember joe rpk hugging. and fist pumping et cetera in the tunnel. with fabregas. and we were mad rivals we've asked on. that point like pizzagate and all that. stuff.

and he got hammered after that pk in our. change room are you doing. before a game you're sitting in a chat a. lot or or without make fun of him a. little bit there's two different ways. you. ridicule and get someone in line either. humor or being firm. and you probably got both but it was it. was that was a. you could sense a change coming it was. coming and obviously social media i. think has accelerated that definitely. ed woodward as well there's a lot of. controversy surrounding him at the. moment again because for better for work. no not yet no yeah when the when uh.

when we can travel a little bit more. we'll uh i think he'll he'll come on but. um. i remember hearing the story about the. exit treatment that you had with him. and i wondered if you were still. somewhat bitter about that i heard you. know. one of your last games at the club and. he comes into the training room and. tells you that you're you're not going. to be playing for the club anymore you. didn't get your send off. yeah of course i think there's no. there's nothing that anyone could tell. me that wouldn't. make me feel that was the wrong way. would fergie have done that no thank you.

zero no. you'd have told me before the end of the. season because you know what it mean but. the difference is that fergie was a. footballer. and he knows what it means he knows what. it is. to be able to say thank you for your. support etc. just have that little runway to ascend. off now listen i understand not. everybody can have it that way but if. you've got. if you know and you've got the. opportunity to give someone the best. possible route out of a situation. you give it to them and my situation i. think it was you could see down the line. from. month a month two months before that.

that you knew what was gonna happen with. me. so give me the opportunity to have the. best possible send off given the time. given the relationship that i built with. the club. so that was my my only discrepancy of. the whole way it worked out because it. wasn't like oh actually a knee-jerk. situation knee-jerk decision so but i. think listen. ed knows how i feel about it but we've. moved on past that i'll speak to him on. the phone. about various different things anywhere. we meet up sometimes so it's cool. but those small moments that's an.

isolated incident. but that's that isolated incident is. attached to a wider philosophy. in the same way that fergie had this. like wider philosophy of like you know. sending your. your granddad the the flowers and that's. a tattoo wider philosophy so although. that's just one instance. i think the risk that i would see and. when i hear things like that i think. well. that same philosophy of like not really. caring being that empathetic. has got to be popping up in other places. right like oh 100. and that again we've said culture about.

10 times already in this. conversation yeah but that's that's. part of a culture yeah like. there has to be like you say compassion. empathy. respect as a family right like that's. what the club was. and that was the way i used to explain. man united i left leeds which was like a. family. a small i say this is a smaller version. without obviously the success but a. smaller version in terms of the people. here. been here for 30 years 40 years 20 years. my dad used to work here my mom used to.

work here that's a family club. man united was that when i was there. my fear is that it becomes something. else some of the waiting stuff i had a. box at my united mm-hmm. and it's funny this is a staggering. thing but for me because you don't think. of you know. the waiting staff in the box are gonna. notice a cultural shift at the club. right but they would tell me they they. said to me you know when fergie and. david gill were here. it was different how did it touch the. waiting staff that served me because.

they know. all their names yes that's what they. said to me they know all their names. they had a relationship david gilman had. a relationship with the the person. giving me a steak. and it and i just thought that was. staggering that this you know. anything like how strong the culture. must be and how important it must be for. the waiter. giving me you know some chips to be like. it's different now the dinner lady at. the training ground i actually spoke to. her on the way here funny that's just me. a voice note but it didn't lady carroll. she could have been with director. manager or david gill. like first name terms.

banter that had been spread over a. number of years so they could go back. and have a proper. back and forth he knew the name of the. groundsman. but it was like and and if if. if i'm at man united now that is part. where i'm going. that that has to be recreated bring that. back. because that's a strength like i said. before about strength in numbers. that's the foundation of the football. club people come in that place and think. oh my god. they're all made united here they're all. feel part of it.

that that creates does that start with. fergie and david at the top. yeah i think it has to and that's why i. look back on things like that and like. you you speak to any of the people that. work there that was. a big part of it because everyone thinks. it's the is the first eleven. the the team the squad the first team. that play. that's the main united it's not it's the. fans. and it's all the people that work behind. the scenes to enable that first level. and that team that squad to go out there. and perform. if there's people out around that aren't.

working that's what the manager used to. say. all these people the kit man the physio. nutritionist the dinner lady etc these. lot help you enable you to be successful. so don't forget that i mean and all. those people have an expectation of the. performance and like the they all become. winners like as a united fan growing up. i was like we win yeah 100 and and you. know. as a fan i was like you know we come and. we win and then at some point when. fergie left i'm like i'm not sure really. what happens. sometimes yeah yeah and you know that.

crazy thing fergie had in the last. couple of minutes of every game where. you thought we're gonna [ __ ] win this. there's only two minutes left. but somehow but you know like the things. i just mentioned there about the club as. well that does. that is a byproduct of success as well. it that becomes easier. it's like a self-fulfilling yeah right. exactly when you're winning. it's like everything when you're. successful and you're winning. everything's kind of run smoothly. doesn't it. yeah and then obviously when things. start to go a little bit wrong you see. so many more bumps in a row so many more. splinter groups come out and start. pointing the finger etc so. i just think that it's keeping it.

getting that culture right and getting. the people who feel part of the club. and then you win with that as well. there's no better. kind of then you've got to defend it. right you've got to defend the culture. again because the culture is the thing. that made you win. yeah and so you might get some big. people getting too big for their boots. or whatever or distracted. and then fergie's just got this great. reputation of bit defending that culture. as the most important thing and are you. that's people say why did he win how did. he win for 20 odd years no one else has.

managed to do that in the modern era. and it's just that but it's it's i. always put it down to as well things. like. dedication desire but he was always the. first in a training ground. i tried to try and beat him to get a. training ground sometimes take my kids. to school and get there like. we used to start like half nine you have. to be in a half nine. i used to get in sometimes at eight. o'clock and these cars there already. last to leave most of the time uh yes. that's again that goes back to the point. of saying about.

showing your kids rather than telling. them be early be it. just be there you're there then they. know he's always there. you can't be late why are you late the. manager says he's been 26 years. and he's early every day and you're not. he's obviously prepping like you don't. do your prep work in the gym why. i remember i keem pulled a meeting. called a meeting because he thought the. young players weren't. doing the extras and why are you going. home before. an ex that experienced player there that. we said to them yeah when you're.

you're in the start of the ladder what's. we called an actual meeting. yeah so that he just said to the lads. listen guys like after training all. coming in or before training all come in. a change room. and everyone sat down and he's like. listen i've got to say it because i'm. seeing it every day and it ain't good. for the club. some of you young boys i'm seeing you. and some even the older the players are. a little bit older than that but. how can you be going home before him. he's doing extras working outside or he. goes in the gym or before training i see. sansa doing that and you're just messing. about in. in the uh canteen or something like that.

it's valuable time don't miss it. short career things like that but that's. again. the manager allowing people to manage a. change room and that's how it was there. you had people that managed to change. room. and you had the manager that oversaw it. all what was the difference between some. players that arrive at manchester united. and ultimately end up reaching their. potential and then some. that don't and there's been a lot of you. know well written about players that. never reached their potential. is was there a commonality that you saw.

that made it because i'm like gary. neville i'm like he wasn't the most. i like the guy he's actually managed me. once in this charity game. like the guy but he didn't strike me as. the most. naturally talented player at work but he. felt yeah. and then work dedication attention to. detail. application on a daily basis like this. is the thing a lot of people think i've. worked hard for two weeks and i've got i. haven't i haven't got any rewards out of. it. the manager's still not playing me i'll. give up no. that's got to be we're talking before a. lifestyle hard work every day is a.

lifestyle. that should be like the standard that's. the standard that is here. and you've got to be at that every day. there's none of this taking your foot. off the pedal. because it's difficult carlos carroll. said to me you can't just switch it on. and off. like that mentality that intensity the. dedication the hard work on a daily but. you can't just go. i work hard on monday to wednesday. thursday friday i'll just chill and then. saturday. switch it on again habits. lifestyle all the time like that so when.

it comes to match time it's not a big. shift. because your body can't do it that your. mind can't deal with that if it's. normalized. this is normal on a saturday three. o'clock sixty thousand people screaming. 100 million people around the world. that's not pressure do this every day. one of the like alienating things when. people might hear you talk and they. think oh well. almost intimidating it's like well rio's. mentality is just so. [ __ ] like disciplined and you know. he's got it now and. i did listen i weren't perfect this is. what i was gonna ask tell me about tell. me how you weren't perfect yeah i went. perfect it took me a long time to start.

understanding like your body. understanding your mindset and my state. of mind had to be. a tip-top condition both mentally and. physically on a. game day and west ham i didn't have it. leads i didn't have it because i was. inconsistent. i was really i trained hard but then i'd. be going out every. every other night i'd go out four or. five times a week parties. pissed like west ham i don't remember a. lot of results or. certain things when people say what.

about that game when you. i actually can't remember i was that i. used to be out and get. pissed so often and then i got to. maintain and i just. was surrounded by people that had won. and i was desperate to win. so what do you do to win i'm gonna copy. of him him him like we spoke about. before and then you become part of that. and then you realize that none of these. lot are going out all the time. so if i'm gonna go out and continue that. lifestyle i had before.

my levels are obviously always going to. be a bit below these guys because you. can't. sustain that you're always working from. a less. from a lower standpoint so i changed. that and. listen i still made mistakes but my. intentions. and my desire was to always be as good. as i could be i wanted to be better than. veda. vidic john terry sol campbell i need to. be the best when people talk about the. best center back i need to be the first. name on their lips so what. what can i do i was not obsessed with it. you know i mean and.

why the lads wouldn't have probably. known how. obsessed i was with it because i would. never show that really but inside. the thought that someone thought that. someone else is a better center back. than me used to. like it would eat away at me why. because i just pride ego we all got egos. you want to be the best. and i was never ashamed myself to be to. feel like that i'll say that that. i didn't say it at the time because it. etiquette it's not the thing to do in. american sports they do it they talk.

like that because i wish we was more. because naturally i'm that type of. person i would say it i think i'm the. best on it. so i don't care that i would say now i. thought i was the best centerback. but i was always i just wanted to be the. best whether i was or not. it's for other people to decide but i. was that was my always my intention. you and vidic partnership a lot of my. friends at the moment that's where i've. been. i'm a big fan of harry maguire and uh. what he does. mainly because i from what i hear he's. one of the only leaders in the back line. like you know always shouting what was.

it that made you and vidic so successful. as a partnership because. my friends they'll do anything to have. you guys back. what was it about you two because you're. known as. in my opinion the best centre-back. partnership we've ever had that's why. i'm here because i knew you'd say that i. appreciate that man don't know man. he had attributes that just complimented. mine and vice versa. he was a he wanted to go and attack.

every ball okay when the ball got kicked. in the skies. he just saw one thing and that was the. ball. and he was better at that than me okay. but. i read stuff and would clean up around. all of that and. was more of i don't know i read the game. probably a little bit different to him. and. but at the same time i was capable of. going up and winning the ball and then. he'd do that with me. whether he was as good at me at cleaning. up on that for other people to decide. but like. i i don't know it was just we just.

compliment each other and what it was. there was a pride about. our defendant us too so you see a lot of. people it's like me. i'm the best i want to be the best which. is true but the overriding factor of me. wanting to be the best is that we don't. concede and we're a partnership. i'm going to be i've got your back and. that's what you just say before a game. video you go up i'm behind you don't. worry when i got you're behind me yeah. that's all it was all the time you. challenge i'm behind you don't worry. just go for the ball go for the man take. the man and the ball.

i'm here if it goes wrong and is that. having that sense of security for each. other. there was a chant of vidiq's chat about. him being a bit of a murderer yeah yeah. crazy how did he how did he feel about. that and like yeah he's quite an. unassuming guy he's really like he's not. really taken. or by anything right did they say that. about me oh cool it's good. not bad not bad and then carries on with. laughs like he's really just. chilled man he's so different to what. he's like if he's just a chill guy. he's intense guy to be fair intense.

and some players may have found him at. times quite moody at times and just. really like in with what he's doing. because he's so intense. and he would really like to think about. a lot of stuff and probably overthink. certain situations but i got on really. well with him he's one of my. my closest guys at maine united when i. was there. from now yeah i talked to him now on the. texts and stuff he's living in milan at. the moment. yeah one of the things that um has. happened since your playing days is. there's been a huge rise in the. conversation around mental health.

wasn't a conversation back then really. um even even for me. growing up that didn't know what it. meant i'll be completely honest i. thought mental health was. um someone goes crazy psychiatrist yeah. yeah just a stray jacket or something. that's what i we always thought it was. that's all. the depiction of someone that's lost. their mind and. um we've come to learn about it in a. much different way now we view it as a. sort of intrinsic part of health but. everyone has. mental health and it it can sit on some. kind of spectrum right. based on what happens um i was wondering.

back then like the players in that. dressing room. they had mental health and they had. mental health issues and stuff then but. i'm guessing it was never addressed it. was never talked about or. i i've done a documentary on bbc about. like grief and bereavement and stuff and. obviously mental health is a huge part. of that. and i got to understand mental health. through that journey of making a. documentary. and understanding that when i played. again mental health was not a thing at.

all. and it was never considered there was no. compassion and if you acknowledged your. mental health and started to. talk about it as i have problems or an. issue he was then seen as a weak link. whether it was spoke about or not he was. there that would be the case that would. be how you see that whole situation. and so no one then talks about it. through fear of being called the weak. link. um and i look back now and think yeah. definitely if we had been. more open enough we had today's.

thought process about mental health. would have got more out of certain. players definitely really um. yeah because louis sahar for instance. what a player yeah unbelievable. footballer had injuries. but along with the injuries that brought. a mental health. problem for him and. like a bit depressed and down and. whatnot because he felt was letting. everyone down that's what you feel when. you're injured you feel you're letting. your teammates down and it's hard to.

deal with sometimes especially if you. just keep getting little injuries and. you come back you go again you come back. and people start always always injured. mentally is not strong is he don't fancy. it. and you as a player you know them. conversations are going on so you start. thinking about that and when people see. you think he's always. he's doubts me anyway and so that mental. warfare that goes on. it could be sorted out through. conversation not. acknowledging certain things but you're. taught in a macho dressing room. that talking is seen as a weakness back.

then. i think there's big changes now like you. say the narrative now is very different. so you'd like to think it's changing and. clubs are more aware of that. i am i remember watching that. documentary remember i think i remember. where i was when i watched it because. it really really hit me um and like. there's. i don't watch a lot of tv but also i am. uh it's quite hard. to make something impact me but because. you were so vulnerable. as someone that i you know grew up. watching as a kid and you were able to. to be emotional. it it yeah it really it hits it hits you.

in a completely different way. tell me about your thought process why. you wanted to do that because i'm. betting it wasn't easy right. no it was it was it was crazy it was. hard man but it was. it was mainly for my kids if i'm honest. and for everyone else because i wanted. my. obviously my kids lost they lost their. mum so. again it's like most about the same. point you can't just keep telling them. sometimes it'd be nice to have something.

you can just show them and that speaks. for itself. and it's visual as well and so they get. a clear idea of. where we're all at where we was at and. how we've got to this point of hopefully. a little bit of healing and on that. journey. we realized actually we're going to help. a lot of people here. so many more than just selfishly our own. family. so it became like a real. real i'm a positive journey for us in. that sense of of working out what it.

means to talk. to communicate your feelings how much. benefit that is to you as an individual. but also other people. um working on relationships and how. it can change your relationship when you. are talking. and and so again it was a difficult. journey because. you've got to open up like you say show. that vulnerable side to you and. and again that's probably again what. that's how we started the conversation i. wasn't scared to do that. it was a difficult situation but i.

weren't scared of doing that because i. knew. at the end of the day my kids are going. to benefit from this and whatever that. however this journey goes. i'm willing to to be a part of it for. that for that one reason. and then when it was when it when it was. um finished and we when i bathed her in. the environment great part of it is that. you walk down the street or you go down. the island sainsbury's or where tesco. wherever it is and. an old age lady or a man come up to you. you know what.

the tear in the eye or something like. that and the throat's all. croaky and i watched your program i've. never spoken before really. you helped me that stuff that's the the. reward that you get from something like. that that i didn't anticipate. and you one of the things you you said. when i was you know. hearing you talk about mental health and. really the i guess the crux of the. documentary is that the healing comes. from. opening up and communicating um and in. fact you might never get over.

what happened and you don't necessarily. need to but it's like when you take it. out from the. the closet in the back you know back. part of your mind. because you were talking about. compartmentalizing it yeah a lot and. that was how you. you were handling it at first and you. know i think a lot of the data shows. that when you try and compartmentalize. grief or never. but it comes at you in other ways right. and it jumps in yeah. you get bad habits you you fall into. holes that you never knew were ever. possible to go down. and then to get back out of them is it.

becomes it like almost an impossible. journey so. it was it was and that's how i probably. would have been with a lot of stuff in. my life before you just compartmentalize. it you put it over there you don't think. about it but you've never dealt with it. you've never got that situation out and. unpacked it. and then used it to bring some sort of. positivity to your life. people don't want to open it though no. because it's scary yeah vulnerable. and today i'd rather just get through. today then unpack that stuff. yeah and have to go through that stuff i.

have to go through them feelings their. emotions. have to have that hurt a little bit. again but i've. we've said it to the kids all the time. like like sometimes crying is such a. a relief sometimes and the weight of it. that goes off your shoulder sometimes. when you you do. release that emotion is like it's crazy. you can't really put it into words what. it feels like at times. that you've had that then moments where. you felt really down or you're missing. someone. and then you have a little bit of.

emotional time on your own or with. friends or with family or whatever it is. and then you there's a smile immediately. comes sometimes out of the back of it. because you feel actually i actually. feel better now i knew that you move on. you carry on with your day but. it is it's a that type of situation that. we've kind of been through. it's never gone but you learn how to. deal with things that bit better. all the time what are some of the sort. of techniques you use to try when you do. feel. down or you feel like you know there's. something bugging playing on your mind.

and stuff and you might be getting. anxious about something is there. anything that you've learned. from your experiences that helps you um. in those moments. like outside of talking or strategies or. is there. one of the things that i was um i've. started doing this that might sound. really strange is. when i so what will happen with me is. something will be playing on my mind and. i try and tell myself how you can deal. with that you're fine. whatever and then three hours later in. the shower and you're still thinking. about it. and i know that it's gonna harm me if i. don't like address it so i will. literally that sounds like [ __ ]. bunkers first time i've ever said this i.

literally say it out loud. and i have this like weird conversation. with myself where i say steve like. you're feeling us go literally you're. feeling like this because of this and. this. and yeah it's making you feel a bit like. you know it's making you feel a bit bad. at the moment or whatever. um but but then i try and reason with. myself as if i'm talking to someone else. and it has really helped me um it's but. it makes me feel like a nutter. yeah i understand what you're saying but. you know. unfortunately i've got an unbelievable. wife who i can talk to.

like communication is a massive part and. where i've improved in my life hundred. percent so i. that conversation you're having there. i'll have with my wife. and i'm lucky how she helped you with. that oh massively. i don't probably tell her enough but. like what she's brought to my life. in terms of being able to open up to. communicate not only with her. but with my kids now i speak to my kids. in a different way now in terms of. because i know communicating and letting. them show their feelings.

trying to just always if there's a. situation that's. prince's mother's day just come. obviously my house is quite i said my. mum passed away and. the babies their mum passed away as well. so. mother's day is and then kate's a new. mum. so there's so many dynamics in the house. and that one day the emotional. kind of energy in the house on that day. is like through the roof. and so to manage that and to. make it a a day where everybody's.

enjoying it and happy. and celebrating mother's day is that's a. task in itself. but talking to the kids we had a. conversation on mother's day at the. table was eating food and stuff and it. was like. um my little boy was like oh like. i said to him like you don't post. anything on on mother's day do you. and he's not an emotional poster anyway. he just posts about what he likes like. football and stuff. and and whatever so he's like yeah i was. actually thinking of doing it this this. um.

this mother's day but like obviously. because like. i wasn't sure what to what to do like. with kate and mum so i. didn't know what to do and it was like. hate almost like off you started crying. really because like i don't want you to. feel like that post what you feel don't. worry about no one else. just post what you feel because no one. can tell you what you feel. and you're not going to disappoint. anybody do what you feel. which i mean and it's like those. conversations i would never have had. with my kids. before because i just wasn't i wasn't in. that in that. in that zone i was always very like.

again. compartmentalized very closed closed but. emotionally. zero coming out really like but that was. condition because my dad was like that. all right. so and we talk about that in the dark as. well like my dad was very very. he wasn't open with his feelings really. and old school very. old school west indian man so. that follows through generations so. see talking is and communicating with. with the kids and kate and. she's the one who's really brought that.

since i've met her in that sense and i. i'd never be able to thank her enough. for that. just that one element let alone the. other stuff that she's brought to the. table. you just you don't you don't talk to her. and you think you might not talk to her. enough though. i don't tell her enough maybe how would. you how um. i'll tell everyone else like all my. mates know that she's been unbelievable. for us she's like. oh you don't tell her i probably don't. tell her enough sometimes. right and that would sometimes have. conversations and she and i'll go yeah. but i told someone so like. you was like you done this oh.

you told them before me right which is. crazy really isn't it. you should really just tell that person. why don't you. i don't know it's the old me still about. really probably yeah yeah. probably the old me still about i don't. know and sometimes a bit like shy. not shall i be embarrassed maybe i don't. know to say that yeah but it's. yeah i should i will. i will i'll send you the clip you can. just let the clip. get it she'll see this on it she's going. why didn't you just tell me like. yeah that's true that's incredible um.

as a guy that's single me mm-hmm and has. struggled for very thinking. [Music]. yeah no not you so yeah as a guy that's. single and struggled. over the years to to get into a. relationship because i've been busy well. this is what the [ __ ] i tell myself. is commitment issues is it well well my. parents so there's there's a slight. issue from my childhood where like my. mum and dad used to scream each other. all the time so i just learned that. relationships were like prison because. my dad would sit there passively my. mum's screaming in his face. and i would i just learned that as a man. when you get a relationship.

you're in prison and your freedom's gone. and i'm so i'm someone that alec. really doesn't want to give up my. freedom and whenever i get. close to that commitment i feel the fear. which comes clearly comes from my. childhood but what are the things that. you you know. as a guy that is super successful over. the last you know a couple of decades. and now he's running businesses and. chasing a bunch of other ambitions that. you have what are some of the things. you've learned about how to have a. successful relationship as a. busy guy one of them's communication i. guess but yeah communication but i think.

time management is massive as well. really. and yeah yeah time management like and. kate's helped with that as well like. managing your diary like i'm busy i've. got a lot of stuff running out that i. enjoy and i'm one of them passionate. about which is key. but i'm as passionate if not more about. my family as well. so managing that diary to make sure. you've got quality time and you've got. enough time with your family but also. you know you're going to work is so. key but also the time when you're there. be there. okay i mean i speak to a lot of guys who. are managers a lot my friends are.

managers now. and that's why i'll never go into. management i don't think because. as a football manager you have to be. you have to live it breathe it every. minute like. that's the same in business but is it i. don't know if with football i just find. there's a different. it's quite different that we're talking. about the way that people talk to each. other at football it's different to an. office. there's elements that are probably. different as manager i feel but. as a football manager you're at home. you're having sunday dinner with your. family but you're not there.

yeah you're thinking about logistics. you're thinking about. the nutritionist does he sort things out. with the players that players are gonna. be fit this week or not and he didn't. fit. that player just got injured at a week. and i can't believe it's thinking about. how am i going to replace him. for what formation am i going to play. the other team have got a formation they. played different at the weekend. i need to watch that video i need to. watch that for that 90 minutes they. played two games last week different i. gotta watch them games as well. that's without thinking about like doing. your team talk and doing. your tactics on a training pitch and.

setting up your training sessions for. the week. without thinking about any and so when. you're at home you're not home you're. not there really. you're physically there but mentally. you're not there you might as well not. be there. so i never i never wanted to get in that. position especially given what we've. been through so. um i definitely i just kind of wrote. that off as being something i'll do. because of that reason. and we were talking again before we. start recording about your. real deep uh desire to make sure that. football isn't the thing that you're.

you become known for right and i uh. i i find that that fascinating but like. um it's a big mountain to climb right. like. to get known for some of the things. you're doing now you're heavily involved. in business you're investing you've got. five. uh what are these what we talked about. focus as well at the start of your. journey deciding that it wasn't going to. be gymnastics it wasn't going to be bad. you know ballet it was going to be. football yeah what is it now. so that's what i mean that situation. that scenario is almost replicating. itself now. i'm in that space right now so when my.

dad said to me what do you want to do. make a choice i've retired. and the last four or five years i've. been working out what i'm going to do. i'm trying this i'm trying that i'm not. scared to try this i'm not going to try. that. if it doesn't work it doesn't work but. then i know i'm not i'm not that's not. for me. and i'm kind of getting to a place now. where i'm starting to drill down and. focus on a. couple of different spheres what are. they saying to go down so. the the the five youtube channel yeah. and creating that football hub that. football place to be.

my foundation which goes into. communities and gets kids that from. disadvantaged backgrounds gives them. the opportunity to get an education and. then the opportunity. to get into work through the. relationships with a few of the. commercial companies that i've. built relationships with over the years. um. what else there's the management company. football management company so we've got. managers and players. past and present that we managed for.

about 85 95 players. um which is that's one of my passions. and i get to mentor players within that. which is. the best bit for me where so for. instance. england player michael keane ben godfrey. mason holgate the murphy twins. uh even chris wilder i'll speak to as. well but i get to mentor these players. nice who i can have some sort of effect. given the experience that i've gained. over the years. so to have played that little role in a. lot of these guys and i do that with the. premier league players and nationals. two players that are from lower leagues.

or just starting on the journey who. haven't made it yet. um we were 17 18 years old so they i get. great kicks out of stuff like that as. well. do you know which path you're gonna take. i don't know i'd love to be able to do. all. yeah but i know it's not possible to be. super successful. spreading yourself in like that so i. will. eventually go this is me it's funny. because when i when i speak to you and. i've spoken to you and obviously all my. punditry stuff. of course yeah yeah which is actually. given yeah when i speak to you when i.

spoke to you last time when we met a. couple out then a year or two again we. were standing in the sea for about 35. about an hour i think i think we're. talking remember you remember that in. dubai standing. oh yeah i was talking about the other. time yeah where like i came i came to. like. roughly where you live you came to. social chain one time yeah yeah yeah i. came to where you lived and then i. forgot the dubai time yeah yeah but. every single time. when when i speak you look at me in a. certain way and i can see it you're like. listening very and then you start asking. questions around certain things. and you're very very very very curious.

and i've noticed this i feel it when i. start talking you go. you look at me like this um does the. same thing yeah yeah. so you're you're a novel you do a lot of. stuff. you're you're doing this you've got a. book coming out you're investing you. know. you've sold it you've been a part of a. company that was valued at 200 plus. million pounds. like you're doing so much stuff there's. a theater show you're doing or whatever. you. mentioned before so there's so much. stuff that you're doing you're spinning. plates. i find that exciting how the [ __ ] are. you doing that. i want to know i don't want to know like.

sometimes it's not even about what. you're doing for me. it's how you're doing it mm-hmm i mean. like. even a podcast. i'm just like all little things like. that i love it so i don't know. i'm i'll just i've got a curious mind in. that sense definitely. when i was young i was curious to find. out what nightclubs look like inside. i mean that's all i wanted to do was. find out i want to get in nightclubs. that's what i don't know west ham yeah. so i mean you just a young player. just coming up in primary get invited to.

everything i was curious. i mean but that's for the wrong reasons. you've not you've lived this crazy life. right that you've lived a life that. me as a young kid growing up in devon. and plymouth i was you know watching my. little. tiny little one foot tv with my brothers. my three brothers sat there. you know that was the life that i wanted. to lead and you've gone through that. journey you've you've now come out the. other end and you're doing all this. other crazy stuff. as you look back on the cut span of your. career. you must now know that there's certain. fundamental things that matter. and a lot of [ __ ] that doesn't what are.

the things that matter. i used fiverr once a month before they. became a sponsor on this podcast. and since they've become a sponsor on. this podcast and i've delved into what. the site does and how all the services. work and the vast array of things that. you can achieve on fiverr using. freelancers around the world. i swear on this dog's life pablo my dog. here who sat on my lap if you can't see. i swear in his life that i've used. fiverr. at least once a week for the last three. months we've built so.

many websites we've designed so many. decks we've had. video clips edited we've had subtitles. produced. if you haven't checked out fiverr before. hit the link in the bio. fiverr.com ceo go to the website check. it out. and every single time i do this podcast. one person who dm's me with a service. from fiverr that they need doing for. their business. for their podcast for whatever project. they're working on i will pay. for that service to be done for you so. find a service on fiverr that you want. done.

send me a message and one person every. week will have that service paid for by. me. you must now know that there's certain. fundamental things that matter. and a lot of [ __ ] that doesn't what are. the things that matter. because i'm a little bit earlier on so. i'm still figuring out some of these. things i'm like oh look money this is. interesting you know like. health man really health is the. it's the biggest the biggest it's the. biggest thing. because when you're healthy you're so. happy we spoke about before.

like confidence it breeds how happy you. are. and it energizes you but if you're not. healthy. it can be devastating so health is a. massive thing which i probably i didn't. consider for many years. probably till we hit that bad patch in. our lives. um i took it for granted. pandemic now has been another pandemic. is an absolute like if you wasn't awake. then you are woken now. to health and what does that mean for. you in terms of staying healthy now.

well we spoke about it before in terms. of of. like what does health mean to it is. passing it on to the next generation of. kids. my own kids first and foremost but then. like to to kids to understand that. going to the gym and just like in and. out. little fads here and there health kicks. here and there isn't at me. yeah you're talking about me it's not a. lifestyle yeah. yeah like and we've got friends that we. both know who are like that as well.

and you've been like that before it's. just it's not. yeah it's not the way it's not healthy. for starters. but up here it just leaves you you're. always. chasing something whereas when you get. consistency. with your lifestyle and health and your. healthy lifestyle. there's like almost like a an excel like. oh. actually i get it now and it becomes. it's not it's not a drain on your life. it becomes something that adds value to. your life in the end and i think that's. something to try and transfer that over.

to this next generation of. kids is i think a key way and this. pandemic isn't. something i think can accelerate that. and it will accelerate that because. like i said i'm on the board at the gym. group now and. trying to get people to understand and. get back into coming into gyms is a. massive push it's a massive it's a key. part and how do you do that because it's. not only the importance of a spreadsheet. it's actually you're doing something. that's going to help people now. and prevent illnesses from being healthy.

a lot of the time. and help their mental health which. people yeah yeah that's what i'm saying. people think it's just physical. yeah it's not like i'll go in a gym in. that hour is unbelievable. three four times a week because you're. on your own. or with a a partner or a pt whatever it. is. and some of your best ideas or best. flushing of things. is there all my ideas right because. you're having that time alone and you're. getting to sit and not think about. anything else but. your reps or whatever it is and then. actually bang something hits you. [ __ ] that's kind of for later last one.

i'll go back to that it's good. it's unbelievable it unlocks so much it. does yeah. it's my i said i'm sorry every day at. 9pm every single day without fail. um i go to the gym and regardless of how. busy i am here which is always too busy. every day the team say they know that at. certain time i get up and i go to the. gym every single day without fail. and it's and it's you see it as okay. what i'm trying to get muscles it's like. no. that's where i think of ideas so health. and i'm really i'm really happy that you. said that because.

um i've had that revelation in the last. year and i think making so cool. thank you making health cool again would. um help more parts of society than we. realize. especially guys that are looking for a. sense of purpose in their life you know. yeah definitely i think that. and it's again this that's the pandemic. as well. maybe created a lot more health. conscious people and. it's just the ways in which they're. going to work out now is is going to be. key. and even my kids are the same like i was. i say to him i don't want to have to. come home and tell you to work out.

you should want to work out just do it. and then sometimes i might be driving. somewhere. and all of a sudden one of the boys or. my little girl they're running somewhere. that's like for me that's a success like. something that's that's. that's what i want to see do you mean. because i'm not forcing them to do it. if they're doing it off their own back. now this could be like their lifestyle. for the rest of their life that they're. healthy living healthy understand what. it means so. and my two boys want to be footballers. as well so it's important for them to be. physically active as a dad that was a.

football legend what do you do. to help a son that wants to be a. football player get there. pray i'll pray every night and just say. please man let my kids be players like. every other parent um. i'd give everything for them to play. football and be like top players. seriously man but if they don't this is. what i always say to them but there. ain't pressure. if you don't make it i don't care it's. life i would love it to be. if you don't make it it's fine you do. something else.

one unfortunately is a centre-back like. me okay at the moment why unfortunately. because then he'll be judged against me. more if he played a different position. like my other goalkeeper my other one's. a goalkeeper. okay so no one's gonna say oh he's not. not as good as rio because he's a. goalkeeper you know what i mean so. um but yeah but they're both they're. both playing now they're both. clubs so they're happy that when the. biggest thing they're enjoying it which. is great. so that's a basic answer but it's so. true i mean they're doing something that. they enjoy that they want to get up out. of bed every day for. and that's all you want and it goes back. to the same thing when you're there.

you better be working don't want this. like if the manager comes to me and. they're doing the appraisal of your. performances the last. two months i do every quarter they come. back and tell me that you don't work. hard enough. you ain't going because you're just. embarrassing for yourself to hear that. but do you is there anything that you. can do can you like call someone to be. like give my kid a chance and. because that's how always i thought it. was like every every footballers kids. would have been players then that's true. i mean it's like it's like saying that. your child is going to be able to build. a 200 million pound company because you.

have. yes i mean it's just not it doesn't. happen because there's so many variables. that can affect that. i guess all you can do is just try and. give them some lessons yeah it's. definitely some advice and it's like. but it's like when you become a parent. it'll be the same your kids don't want. to hear it from you. yeah yeah yeah they don't want to hear. all of this from you yeah. they'd rather hear it from the sunday. league coach you've got no. qualifications and listen to him. and i'm sitting there looking at my son. like do you realize what i have done. what i did why you're here.

uh and you're not listening to me you're. not taking my advice that you used to. kill me right but i don't really know. but and then i realized it's more about. just giving them. the tools from a mental perspective to. how to think and live like a. professional. do they know who you are they do it's. weird my son said this to me the other. day he said dad until i got fifa i. didn't really know how good you was you. know. i said what do you mean he says like. you're legend on fifa the game. so now i know obviously i see your stats. they're sick that they're sick how old. is he.

he's he's 14. he took him he probably. said only like about until two years ago. when he started playing fifa. that he realized that you like yeah. before that it was looking me. like i was just any man like any guy. like and i say to them like yeah. and one of my sons used to go yeah but. dad. you you really know that though. seriously let's go what's this guy. saying like. what are you talking about i meet you. brother he was like but that's how they. were because they were just oblivious to. it and a lot of players i spoke to and i. asked them did you. know that you were like the top player.

not really they don't. really yeah you just want to sit them. down and show them some tapes. yeah but then but you don't sit there. and do that it's like almost like. they've got to go and find it. and that's what they've they've done now. since obviously they go on youtube and. look at stuff as we go down you actually. they're not bad are people saying like. you are the virgil van dyke so who's. better. and like virgil van dyke is here right.

who is the best defender in the world in. your view right now yeah yeah. you think it's ramos yeah ramos says. these ages obviously. it works against him but ramos in terms. of influence yeah yeah. um in the last seven or eight years has. been. the standout because he's that he's just. he's been a monster. scores goals scored over 100 goals you. know sent it back really career. yeah crazy but van dyke the last. two years has been the best yeah. liverpool.

aren't having a good time at the moment. i'm not guided i'm not good. the best that we've got some liverpool. fans in here and i tell you what i've. i've made the most of this oh it's. beautiful. every day i'm like watching the games i. didn't care before i'm like watching sat. there watching the game. like i'm watching united yeah just like. that oh and then i'll text them all. you've just conceded what's the excuse. today on no fans all that nonsense. no players got an injury yeah heard it. all um. you know you lastly you know you said. you said that you're happy now. happiest you've um you've felt in a long.

time yeah. yeah definitely like i'm just i'm facing. that she said i did it. so my face didn't say no you're faced. with no i'm i'm the happiest i've i've. been man it's just because. i don't know i've got three healthy. children four healthy children now got a. newborn baby. family friends um. yeah man it's just. and and business is going well as well.

and i can see. st i can see stuff happening and. evolving like. you can almost you can feel stuff. happening you know i mean you must have. felt that with some of the stuff that. you do you feel. you you you get onto something and you. feel momentum a little bit the momentum. starts coming you can see it building so. i'm in a good place man i'm i'm really. happy what do you want. what do you mean what i want i purposely. ambiguous like what do you what do you. want. when you think about what you want now. what is it i just i just want to. be part of something that people go well.

that was that's the [ __ ] like that's how. they've done that. fair play well well played that's what i. want why. because that's how i've always been you. play football first and foremost i. wanted. because i wanted to be a success before. that obviously. but that recognition i think we all have. a little bit in us that you want that. recognition. whether it's from your friends your host. network of people family. or outside that but.

why why is a football player did you buy. the paper or do you go online. what number's beside your name if you've. got a four out of ten that papers are. getting thrown away. you get a nine attack ten eight ten well. you're looking for that recognition and. i think we've all got a little bit in. that. now why'd you say well done to your team. members of your team because you know. that person. will feed off that recognition so i'm. not ashamed to say that i i'm definitely. like that as well. well thank you so much for for coming. today means a lot and um you're an.

incredibly inspiring guy like. and i have no doubt that you're gonna. you're gonna find that thing and it's. gonna. become um just as successful as. everything else you've done in your life. because. you've got all the you've got the. philosophical attributes that are. conducive with. success like you're you're not someone. that got lucky you've clearly got a. mindset that is conducive with success. and especially when you you talk about. how curious you are with things. i like when i say it i mean it like the. way you look at me when i talk about. something that like if i talk about. something that's maybe a little bit. outside of your. realm of experience you might as well.

have pen and paper in the hand because. that's the facial expression right yeah. i've got notepads at home. it's going in really so um who i. reference in the podcast is the seo. pretty little thing and he was always. the same and he said to me he was like. i'd get 16 year olds in this office. and i'd be like tell me about tik tok. and he just sits there and studies them. he doesn't know about it he knows about. him. but he will know through them and he'll. learn and he said you should say to me. i'm a sponge he said so mahmoud and. umar would invite me to the office. sometimes four days a week. and i'll just sit in the office and. they'll just ask me questions and then.

you'd see them sort of changing their. strategy a little bit on social media et. cetera and. you know their record speaks for itself. but yeah you've been a huge inspiration. for me for many many years as a leader. um as a guy you know i didn't know you. before you know. a couple of years ago and when we met. and the guy you are. and the leader you are is um is. tremendously inspiring you're a good guy. and you're incredibly inspiring as well. so thank you for making the time today. you inspire me now as well so this is uh. kind of it works both ways so i. appreciate you appreciating.

thank you cool man thanks. [Music]. you.