Reggie Yates Reveals The Secret To Staying Driven & Reaching Your Potential | E90

reggie yates he's a critically acclaimed. filmmaker a writer a director and. an entrepreneur the first time i saw a. machine gun was. in my estate at like nine years old when. the police were raiding a flat on my. floor. because there was all kinds of craziness. there when you're just playing on the. balcony. as a teenager presenting kids tv with. air force ones and the mecca tracks. it says something i'm on the bbc and i'm. dressed like the boys that you cross the. street from. subsequently you know i've had kids come. up to me bro i loved watching you. because we dressed the same we talked.

the same and you were doing that. and when people say things like that to. strangers it's so powerful. for me empowering others is a huge part. of my drive right now. working with young talented people and i. love that i have that relationship with. people because i never had it growing up. there was always a distance between me. and the person that was helping guide me. shortening that distance for me in the. lives of others. is what success feels like. [Music].

reggie yates he's a critically acclaimed. filmmaker a writer a director. and an entrepreneur and over the last. three decades. he's been on our screens and through. that time. the world has changed the platforms have. changed and he. has certainly changed he's been involved. in scandals. wild success and unfortunate failure. reggie's work as a filmmaker is. extraordinarily diverse. and he's traveled across the world.

meeting those that have oppressed and. those that have been oppressed. and this conversation is the same. incredibly diverse we'll touch on. everything from love relationships. struggles. family mental health ambition council. culture and. everything in between thank you reggie. thank you for your honesty because i. know the people that are about to listen. to this podcast are going to take a. tremendous amount of important value. from it. so without further ado i'm stephen. bartlett and this is the dire of a ceo. i hope nobody's listening but if you are.

then please keep this to yourself. reggie um location. environment family where do you come. from. um i am the child of african immigrants. both my parents were born in ghana and. came to london as children. i was born on tottenham court road so. i'm london london london.

and i was raised in holloway i moved to. south east london when i was 14 and. 18 i moved out and i've been a londoner. ever since and i say that because. i've lived all over you know london's. quite a tribal city uh between football. and the club you support and the area. that you're from and. your connection to it i've lived all. over and i call south london home. now even though i didn't start there and. i didn't school there really. um but i love it there and it's nice to. return to the place that i spent a chunk. of my teens. so two parents from an african uh from.

ghana. great ghana they came here when they. were my mother 11 i think my dad was. maybe 15 or 16. so tell me all about that and that. experience because i know that in terms. of like education and perspective on the. world and all those things from my. own mom's experience she she couldn't. read or write right so we had. a ton of wars growing up because i. dropped out of university after one. lecture so we didn't speak for three. years. i know that african parents have a. certain perspective and i know. especially from reading about how you've. handled things like fame. press drugs alcohol and the avoidance of.

all of those things. i know i feel like much of that must. have come from those kind of values. yeah um i'd say it's a combination of. things it's a combination. of the mentors that i chose uh the. environment that i was in at home. and that massively comes down to culture. you know. and that's why i was really interested. in your connection to nigeria because. culturally. for me um where my parents are from has. informed massively. in a lot of ways my outlook and.

culturally obviously you know. when you've got west african parents who. were born there. you're raised in an environment where. education is everything because. as far as they're aware that is the only. way to unlock. uh another life for yourself my. grandparents came to this country in. search of a better life for not just. themselves but their children and. ultimately us their grandchildren. and it worked you know my mom got an. education. i got an education to a point and. weirdly my social education.

and my extracurricular activities have. given me a career. so um more than anything i think it's. the values. of an african house that have given me. what i believe. to be a healthy life and i mean in every. sense of the word. people talk to me a lot about being. grounded and understanding what being. humble is. and i think when you've come from. nothing but at the same time. you enjoy everything it changes your. perspective on what success looks like.

and that was the house that i was raised. in we celebrated. every day because we. essentially were striving to be happy. and happiness. didn't come from material goods it came. from. success and achievement uh on a level. that made everybody in the house proud. as opposed to what was going on outside. the family home. because culture was everything and do. you feel that do you still feel that. and did you ever fully believe that. happiness would come from success and. achievement do you still do you still. deeply believe that for me happiness uh.

comes from being fulfilled i think um. in my at my most happiest and my most. calm. i feel like i'm able to love and i feel. loved. i feel as though i am professionally and. personally fulfilled. um i feel as though i'm creatively. fulfilled they're the moments when i. feel my most happy and they're the. things that i'm chasing if ever i was. chasing anything. and what was that what was the kind of. difference in between your mom and your. dad my mom was. nigerian yeah i didn't i don't really.

have to say which my mom was nigerian. right my dad was the antithesis of that. my dad was a. what is a um older. white male very passive very very calm. usually doesn't speak. wow and my mom was she can shout for. seven hours at. a tone you've never heard in your life. without like taking a breath. amazing so was there a huge difference. between the. the sort of values or the approach of. your mum and your dad that had a sort of. a significant well my dad's a musician.

was is and continues to be um but he. wasn't in my life. my parents divorced when i was quite. young and then my mother remarried. a another garnier man who was also from. a similar background. um and in terms of who they are. slash were as people it's very different. um. i think i get a lot of what makes me me. for my mum my mom was incredibly social. she loved music i've spoken about this. before she used to always cook with this. sony ghetto blaster above the cooker and. you know. it's west africa dean so you're using a.

lot of palm oil so there was like. the the ghetto blast it's so like clear. in my mind it's just. covered with red oil and like there was. there was no cover on the tape bit so. you used to have to push a tape in. and there was like marks on it as to. where her favorite radio stations were. so. i was raised on a diet of pirate radio. and pop. um and that was my mum it's just a. vivacious big social animal like i. remember her 30th birthday because. you know she had us quite young and her. just with a [ __ ] out the window like. having a little dance or whatever and. like turning up her favorite records and.

my stepfather is not that you know he's. not particularly social and he's quite. different and. his dad was in the military so he was i. imagine not that dissimilar to your. mother it sounds like. so um there were two very different. types of parenting in my house and as i. say my biological dad. wasn't present and ironically we're. probably really similar. given our you know our expression. through creativity. have you ever reconnected with him yeah. um yeah. so i did who do you think you are yeah.

the bbc one show. yeah and it's really interesting because. they. they started carving up episodes of the. show and putting them on youtube. and they chunked my episode into four. parts. and uh on my father's side of the family. my biological father they've been. mixing for generations you know like. three of my grandmothers are mariah. carey black you know like they're. super super fair because there's been. generations of people that are. of mixed origin and with ghana um. previously being part of the british. empire. and being part of the commonwealth and.

ghana finding independence in 1957. there was a huge uh english contingent. particularly. uh in around places like cape coast um. when it came to trading when it came to. gold etc. um and that's part of my family legacy. massively so you know my mum was. bitterly disappointed after they did the. research and realized that. her family background which was just one. village. versus my dad's side which was lots of. different people from different places. in europe coming to africa and mixing so.

on and so forth so. when we made that show i realized that. they wanted to start. the show with a conversation between he. and i talking about the family. and i hadn't seen him or spoken to him. in over a decade so we met up just. before we recorded. and it was it was weird because i hadn't. seen him in so long and then when we did. record it's interesting like the film. starts with. the sequence with he and i sort of. chatting and he's playing thumb piano. but. the last time we saw each other with. each other was the day before. but prior to that i was a lot younger.

so yeah i was a teenager the last time. i'd seen him so. is it i don't know i i don't really have. any bitterness towards the man because i. understand him a lot better now as i've. grown and as your friends become. fathers you sort of start to identify. just how many people are actually. naturally equipped with fatherhood. and not everyone is and unfortunately my. father just didn't seem to be one of. those guys. one of the things i i got to be honest i. worry about with. my own experience with my parents is.

that there are. slightly toxic traits that they have and. i think this is the case with all humans. but. you know my parents are humans too yeah. um that i'm. i'm concerned i will. pass on like with through generational. cycles and i think. the less aware i am of those things the. more they stand a chance of like. showing up at some point and running the. show when it matters the most. yeah do you have those fears have you. ever had that you know they had those. fears i don't have them anymore. okay and the reason i don't have them.

anymore is because i recognize that you. know. i define my my present and my future my. past i have no. control over but um who i am today and. who i will become. is down to me um and that also. uh is massively dependent on my. understanding. of my childhood trauma of the things. that um. if unchecked could define me so. i've always been desperate to define. myself.

even when i didn't realize that i was. doing it so you know. uh growing up in a council estate up the. road from here in holloway. and having friends who have exactly the. same setup at home you know. before my mother met my stepfather we. were a single-parent household on. benefits. my mom did whatever she could to you. know feed the family and move us forward. that was the same for the other boys on. the estate so if i was hanging out with. corey or tyrone or whoever. their house felt like mine and i was. determined to not be defined by the.

things that we were being taught to. normalize. you know and as a result i just. have decided that that's not the life. that i'm gonna have and my children. won't. god will and i have you are when you. look at your career. you are a tremendous outlier in terms of. the journey you've. you've you've taken and what you're. doing now that's very kind thing and. then you trace it back and go you came. from a councillor state not too far from. here for you to have. gone on that journey and achieved the. things you have.

i always i always think there must have. been certain. factors in those early years that made. you. take a different course to those friends. that might still be on the estate now. yeah it might have been. you know we talked a little bit about. values there it might have been you know. i don't know something someone said to. you an experience you had or just the. conditioning. whatever it is but my question is do you. and do you know what those factors were. that made you. an outlier i mean you sound as though. you've done. a lot of work on yourself and in the. little bit that i know about you.

i get to meet people and ask so i. learned so much from these kinds of. answers right. and i've made documentaries for over 10. years so it's the same thing you know. you learn so much from your environment. if you're willing to drink in the. information yeah and. i just in thinking about between therapy. and also being um present in moments. like this. you know yes there are cameras but i'm. having a conversation with you. and i'm learning from you and that. certainly was the case. in 10 years of making films you know for. the bbc um.

so when it sort of comes to me looking. at. how i've become the person that i am and. how my journey has played out the way. that it has done it's an amalgamation of. different moments and instances but. fundamentally it comes down to. a desire even as a kid to understand. and be aware and it's progressed into. this idea of being present. and understanding the moment that you're. in and why you're there and. and taking as much from the moment as. possible so as a child. i would always ask questions and i was.

far too. aware of my environment for my own good. so for instance i'll. i'll never sort of forget going to my. friend kieran's. oh no yeah it was kieran buckley's house. i went to kieran buckley's house. in barnsbury and um. my mom was very protected so she. wouldn't let me play at friends homes. i know you know how that goes and i went. to kieran's and i was in the garden and. he had. this massive massive beautiful islington. garden with several trees in it.

and i asked him how come you've got a. park at the back of your house. um and his mother sort of overheard and. laughed a bit and it stayed with me. and he's like that's not parks my god. are you talking about come on freeing it. in you're in goal mate and you play this. game you don't think about it and then i. remember going back to my cancer state. and looking at the. the one tree that me and corey used to. climb and think. i don't have what he has why is that. and then you start to think about these. things and then start to understand. class and where you are and.

even so far as the area you know i. started to really recognize the power of. my walk to school even as a kid. before i got to secondary school i was. like this is really weird like i live in. a borough. islington in north london that has. everything from. council states with immigrants and white. working class. right the way through to multi-million. pound houses and i lived on. a row called liverpool road which is. such a it's such an important road. that i haven't only i've only become. aware of how important that road is to.

my journey. in recent years so i lived at the. holloway end of liverpool road and. liverpool is a long road that runs. through. islington and at the other end is angel. an angel gentrified years before. holloway did hallway is a very different. place now. and they had a waitrose they had a. sainsburys and you had these gorgeous. massive townhouses and. you know if you deviated off liverpool. road you'd be in barnsbury and there. were these beautiful little villagey. roads. and holloway was where the people that i. grew up around lived. and you had these estates you had every.

kind of madness you could imagine. happening on my estate like i remember. my first. the first time i saw a machine gun was. in my estate at like nine years old when. the police were raiding a flat on my. floor. because there was all kinds of craziness. there when you're just playing on the. balcony. on your estate on on the floor that you. live on you got on police there. you know let alone the other times that. you see other weapons or you see other. things happen. um and those walks that i would go on. where i would be like wow the bit that i. live in versus the bit that i'm walking.

through versus the bit that i'm going to. to go to school. i know what bit i want to live on so i. better start thinking. about how i'm going to get to that bit. of the road it's so fascinating you'd. say that and it took me in my head back. to. back to my own experiences being a kid. and this really vivid memory i have one. day of. looking up at the sky and seeing a plane. and then looking down at my street and. thinking i wonder if all of these fam. this is what they wanted from their life. and then the plane for me was the. juxtaposition between a family going on. holiday. i'd never been on like other than coming.

from africa we'd never been on holiday. yeah. so i was thinking oh my god people are. going on holiday and then i look down at. my street and i look up again and i see. this plane. and a lot of people will have that but. it takes a different mind to then think. i want to be on the plane i want to be. at the other end of. liverpool street um but then also. i have some idea about how to get there. or maybe you didn't have some an idea. about how to get there but maybe just. the. i mean if you believe in that. manifestation just that i want to be. there so i'm going to make decisions. over the next 10 years.

in that direction right well my. journey's super weird right. because from the age of eight i was a. working actor. so i was constantly reminded about my. difference. just by being present and by being aware. even as a child so. it didn't take much for me to realize. you're not like your friends reg because. you're currently. working while they're at school and. you've been allowed time off school to. work so straight away you're like okay. i'm a bit different. and this is a bit of a weird situation. to be in and then you look around and. there's a hundred people on set and.

you're the only black person. both in front of all behind the camera. and you go okay wow. um i'm not like any of these people here. and the conversations that you hear. about what people did on the weekend or. where they're going that even or even. conversations about wine like little. things that people take for granted. culturally. anybody drinking wine in my house you. know what i mean. like shallow was a big deal you know um. going to sainsbury's was a big deal like. we used to walk to dalston with. backpacks to go and buy meat and tin. tomatoes and carry them back because we.

never had a car what does that do to you. though when you're on set everyone else. is a different skin color and they're. talking about things that you're not. familiar with in terms of like let's be. honest like class. right absolutely what does that do to. you and does it put a chip on your. shoulder does it. make you i'm more ambitious does it make. you think [ __ ] i'm i'm out of place i'm. an imposter. yeah well it could have put a chip on my. shoulder and i'm incredibly thankful. that it didn't. what it did do was make me so hungry. to create an environment where i could. feel comfortable.

and what that progressed into was. understanding that it's going to take me. a while to get to the point. that i'd like to be at therefore it. would be and become my responsibility. to create that for someone else to. create that for another eight-year-old. me or 15 year old me. and i feel incredibly proud that i'm. able to do that now because. i recognize the power of it and. regardless of. those moments of feeling out of place or. being sort of feeling as though you know. your class is being. is being waved in your face like i told. this story the other day to a friend of.

mine who's. i'm a godfather to his child he's one of. my good good good friends. uh sam wilkinson he's a director who i. made a lot of my documentaries with. and um he's got my gorgeous little. god son in his hands little teddy and. we're chatting away and i was telling. him a story about. uh being at this primary school in. island where you've got kids from. estates and kids from. quite you know affluent homes all in the. same school and at lunch time you had. these kids with thundercats lunch boxes. and these incredible sandwiches and. kitkat minis all the things that i never. had in my house you know.

you're sort of looking at tinfoil that. hasn't been used 50 times and you're. like oh my god they're throwing the. tinfoil in the bin what the hell. what the hell is going on without being. made to fold and put it back because you. could use it for dinner tomorrow. anyway so you're like taking all of that. in and. every lunch time i'll never forget um. pat god bless her. uh the head dinner lady this big lady. big lady. would walk out and she'd go free school. dinners. and all the kids that were on free. school dinners used to have to stand up. and go and get your food and it sort of.

broke you a little bit as a kid because. your mates were just a bit like oh my. god. can you imagine and i told this story to. sam and he started crying. and sam started crying i think not. because. well i think he felt a little sad for. little mini me but he also. as a father imagined his son in that. position. and i'm sure we'll get on to family and. fatherhood and stuff but i. you know i realize how much fatherhood. has softened a lot of my friends and. also has made. me very sort of cognizant of my journey.

and also. just how important my childhood was in. shaping who i've become. and when you were there when you were in. school when you were eight years old and. working and acting. what were your dreams for the future and. how big were they could could you. what was that internal monologue saying. that the end of. reggie's story would look like i don't. know what it looks like now. yeah and then i never had any sort of. desire to create it or paint it. i just knew that it was fun and i. enjoyed it and i didn't quite understand.

why i was getting paid to do it really i. just didn't get it because it was like. you mean i get off school and i get to. play make believe with people that i've. seen on telly. and you're going to pay me for that. right i remember my mom opening a bank. account for me. because i did a job and. this money started coming in and you. know suddenly you've got tens of. thousands of pounds in your account. you're not even in secondary school yet. and it's like well hang on this is this. is crazy because mum's. desperately trying to save to put this.

on the table or to make that happen. and i'm getting to do something that's. fun and it's paying me really well and i. get to do it with. stephen fry and hugh laurie like what. that there though. for me speaks to a really critically. important part of like. success which is at a very very young. age you got to see behind a curtain. and the curtain was in my view just from. hearing what you said i can do something. that i actually like. and people will pay me for it and. imagine most kids from that estate. all they'll ever get to see is you work.

in the factory or whatever you have to. hate your work. and you get paid [ __ ] all for it yeah. that's what did they you know. well it's interesting you said it. because you've actually weirdly picked. up on a really interesting point because. um. something happened on set in a moment. of realization even as a child that. only came back into my head popped back. into made a few years ago and i. recognized how important it was and i. actually put it in my book. and that was um. work to me based on my grandparents and.

my mother was something that you hated. um my grandmother worked the buses. she was a cleaner she did all sorts of. stuff she was a. a cook for london underground at one. point i was at london bus one of the two. my grandfather had two jobs at night he. was a security guard at some random. factory in king's cross. and during the day he was a mathematics. professor at a university. you know it's an incredibly educated man. but because he wanted to build a home in. ghana and he wanted to look after. everyone.

he literally worked all the hours that. god would send so whenever anyone spoke. about. work they hated it and then. the first job that i ever got as an. actor when i was eight years old was it. was desmond. which for anyone that um has seen it. will know. like retrospectively how important that. show was for those that don't know what. it is. uh desmond's uh i believe is channel 4's. longest running sitcom. and it's not on tv anymore it hasn't. been on for years but desmond's. was about a black family in peckham who.

owned a barber shop. and it was a comedy about black life and. just about life and because it was so. human even though it was massively. flavored by this. caribbean family people loved it and it. was massive and it ran for i think seven. seasons right. so the first audition i go for is. desmonds. and i remember going to humphrey. bartlett i think it was the name of the. production company in kentish town. and we went up to their production. office and my mum was excited.

you know she was prepping me on her. little cards like to get my lines down. and everything and i got the job. and then i had this random moment that. when i think back it's crazy for me as a. kid to have made this realization i had. this realization and that was. i was um i was on set surrounded by. people that looked like. me and my family you know you had. shirley who was the matriarch of the. family who actually looked like my gran. you had norman who played desmond who. was like the super funny old guy my. granddad was this funny old guy that. used to make inappropriate jokes all the.

time and. all the makeup artists were black and. they would give me little boiled sweets. and. everybody was just so fun to be around i. was just surrounded by this blackness. but in a professional setting and. everyone was at work. and they were having a great time. and something went off in my head and i. was like wait hang on a second. maybe what i've seen in my family and. their relationship with work. doesn't apply to everyone because these. people look like my family and they're. having a great time. so what would it be like if i did that. for me.

and that's exactly it and i a lot of. people. don't realize that and that's why i. referred to it as you got to look behind. the curtain right and once you see it. you can't unsee it. once you make that connection that you. can love your work. and it can be in line with your passions. i mean right now the stuff you're doing. in your career is. seems to be perfectly in line with your. interests you know and i've heard about. you know one point you were doing work. in music and you're interviewing pop. stars and you're asking them. questions you didn't want to ask them. and you've it feels like you've really.

got closer and closer and closer and. closer to. doing work that's intrinsically. fulfilling as the years have gone on a. lot of people don't realize that reggie. and they don't ever get to see behind. that curtain. yeah so what would you say to those. people who um. have the have the dreams but they've. always believed that work is a. nine-to-five thing it's a chore it's. something you do to fund. your passion yeah or your free time well. it's really difficult in this era. because there are so many experts uh. on social media or on youtube and who. are releasing books or whatever you know.

there's a ton of people who haven't had. any life experience which is why. people like you i think are so important. and i'm not blowing smoke here. you know you're having incredibly. important conversations off the back. of living a life and doing something and. you're still so young. you have earned the right to say this is. what i think. and feel and i'm willing to share it and. you continue to learn on camera. making documentary is a huge part of me. learning on camera and learning with my. audience. and i'm sure that you can attest to this. there's something incredibly powerful. about saying i don't know but i want to.

learn and when you do that and it's. documented and recorded people come. along with you you know. and in this moment there are so many. people that just see the end result that. want to be gary vee. or you know want to shout advice and be. be the tough love guy. and there is merit in that and i think. that. you know for a lot of young men. particularly you can look at some i'll. use garyvee as an example i think he's. fantastic in. some of the things that he does and the. way in which he delivers a message. because some people need to hear it. similarly on the other side um a book.

like the secret for instance. you know if you don't have people. constantly reminding you of things. like some of the messages that are in. the secret. you might need to turn to a book that. has them all in one place you know. and i think it's incredibly difficult. for people to. to be honest with themselves about. what they're capable of without willing. to do the work. yeah and so many people want the end.

result. but don't respect or understand the. value in the journey. and we live in a microwave era where. everything happens overnight and people. come up and come down from. social media stars to reality tv stars. or whatever and. it just it it breaks my heart that. nobody's willing to just look back a. little bit. and see that everything that they're. doing has happened before. and it all ends in one way um and. without. sort of rattling on about it or anything. i had a conversation recently where i. realized how fortunate i've been to have. been around for so long because.

i've had a career for over 30 years now. and i've seen the cycle. play out over and over and over again so. like being. 12 years old and interviewing the spice. girls and thinking oh my god this is the. most amazing exciting thing ever. and then seeing their peak because you. know i interview them for wannabe. then you see their peak and then you see. the movie and you see them on packets of. walkers crips. and then you see the fallout and then. you get to where you are today and you. see. how that has played out but that's sort. of like a a bigger arc but you could go. even smaller you know in the boy band.

era. you name them i interviewed them from. the backstreet boys to five over here to. whoever i met them when they were new. and excited then i met them when they. were arrogant and horrible. and then you meet them when everything. isn't happening anymore and they've got. that album no one wants to buy. you see the cycle happen over and over. again today it's reality tv starts. only the cycle isn't three albums. if you're lucky it's three years if. you're lucky it's three years yeah yeah. yeah sometimes it's three months. they do love island twice a year now. yeah you don't get to a million.

followers before there's a new sexy eu. on the show. you know and what does that take to. i guess to in some degrees to to. reinvent yourself through. as the world changes as platforms change. to stay. relevant to you know what does that take. i. have no desire to remain relevant i. don't. care i will just continue to follow my. passions. and i i recognized uh the power of. platform. when i was 18 when some.

random kid's mum stopped me on the. street and said you're a role model for. my son and i hated there for it. and then i realized i have no choice in. the matter and. the minute i realized that regardless of. how i feel people are going to look at. me because i have a platform. i understood the power of that platform. and that started a thinking process that. made me. desperate to get out of entertainment. and get into documentary because i felt. as though. with that amount of eyeballs i should. have something to say. and that's why i think documentaries.

have naturally led on to me becoming a. writer director and filmmaker. and using art to actually say something. and. everything that i do now speaks to my. purpose. quick one so many of you who are joining. the huel family and becoming a hooligan. as we call it. and starting your fuel journey ask me. what my favorite flavors are and i've. been. quite i guess contradictory in the. podcast historically because. as he will introduce new products i get. new. favorite flavors and so here in front of.

me if you're watching this online on. youtube. you'll see my favorite three products. that i literally don't can't imagine. living without at the moment so you have. the berry flavor ready to drink which. was my original favorite i have that for. convenience. that then was replaced by the banana. flavor which is my. favorite and now and so that's for. convenience day today. my favorite flavor as it relates to my. gym fitness regime is the salted caramel. powder. super low in calories all of your. vitamins and minerals. and 20 grams of protein in 100 calories.

which is. outstanding um so these are my favorite. three products if you're going to try. huel. and you've got the same palette as me. start here. that's my advice that journey you've. described over. you know 30 odd years and the the cycles. and the. staying you know being at a point now. where you can still do what you want on. a big platform. there must have been a ton of failure. through that journey and people don't. talk about that because that doesn't. make for good instagram posts.

typically you know like the day you get. rejected from the audition or whatever. yeah. what are the some of the critical. moments in your journey where you. encountered failure or rejection. and you had that sort of mental. conversation with yourself to figure out. what the hell this means. and what we do next um i. uh have done a lot of therapy and i'm. really thankful for it i started in my. 20s and now in my uh my late 30s. um i understand the importance of. getting to know your shadow and uh.

my current therapist i've been with for. a while now is an incredible human being. who. has given me new tools for the tool belt. i'm using the language i love this. i'm using the language and um just some. of the things that he's given me. have really helped me to understand me. at my worst. and one of the big triggers for me is. when my. character is questioned and i've always. struggled with the idea of people. getting me. wrong or thinking that my intentions. aren't pure. and i had a situation um a few years ago.

now where i said something publicly that. offended a lot of people. and my argument was no no but i didn't. mean that. i didn't mean that and what i came to. realize was. your intentions mean nothing if you hurt. people. and in sitting with the community that i. offended deeply which breaks my heart. because my first ever mentor anna cher. who gave me my career in. in television it's from that same. community as well. and i learned and have learned so much.

about that community and that faith. um and i felt as though i let so many. people down. and in having those conversations and. understanding that bro it's not actually. about you. it's about knowing the power of your. platform. understanding that you have a. responsibility when you open your mouth. because. you've worked so long that people listen. to you now bro. and respecting the fact that regardless. of what your intention is. if you hurt people you have to behave. accordingly and that was a huge moment. of failure for me.

that i have learned so much from and. that i am. uh i'm proud of the lessons that came. from it. and those lessons i think have set me up. in such a way that. i'm excited about my future because. regardless of everything i've done i. feel as though i'm only really getting. started now. and everything that has happened feels. like practice in a way. so i'm gonna ask these questions because. i i'm scared that at some point i'm on. dragon's den now.

i i have a podcast where i speak my mind. and i'm gonna say some [ __ ] at some. point. i've said to my team before i'm like i. know at some point i'm going to say some. [ __ ] that. is going to get me in trouble something. that i didn't mean or something off the. cuff or whatever you want to say didn't. mean again to your point it doesn't. necessarily matter but. um if i meant it or not what my. intentions were but. can you talk to me and we're kind of. talking about like cancer culture here. we're talking about. you know um someone that has a platform. that's speaking their mind that's. is using words in various ways um. so you're talking you're you're.

referencing there there were some. comments made people there was an uproar. within the jewish community what was. your mental. journey from the second you you said. those comments. to where you are now can you give me. like a little bit of the journey of like. you see the uproar yeah is the initial. feeling of like. you don't get me that's not what i meant. absolutely yeah and then there's is. there anger there is there this. and then there's no anger it's just. disappointment because you know better. it feels as though it's the biggest. thing that's happening anywhere in the.

world to anyone. and it really isn't but the bottom line. is. that you have caused offense to people. that. you care about you have working. relationships with people and so on and. so forth and. there's a lot of vanity that kicks in. hence me saying what i said about you. know you feeling that. it's the biggest thing because suddenly. your entire world is made up of people. who are either disappointed. or uh let down or angry with you and. rightly so um and.

you just have to sit in it you just have. to sit in it and make those difficult. phone calls. and also be willing to learn and. understand that you were wrong. and i think when you are at your core. a good person which i believe i am when. someone tells you you're not. oh it's really difficult to get your. head around. but leaning into that and like i said. getting to know your shadow. um understanding why that's such a. trigger understanding what that is. setting off for you in terms of.

things that may have happened in the. past etc um. it's uh it's a process that you kind of. have to go through that gets really. really dark and difficult and then you. come out the other side saying okay. i'm i'm proud of that den like i'll. never forget actually and this isn't. this is a horrible clan name drop but um. uh daniel kahlua said to me that um. actually off the bat like he and i had a. conversation about this whole situation. and he said bro um there's a reason that. golf balls have dents in them. i was like what do you mean he said well. you know golf balls with dents go.

further. and i was like yeah and kalu was so. right you know. um i learned so much in that situation. that it. weirdly strengthened my relationships. with a lot of people from that community. and also my knowledge is better and my. knowledge of self is better in terms of. how i manage myself in complicated. moments. this idea of the shadow getting to know. your shadow i find that so fascinating. it's good stuff in it yeah it's really. good i've had that expression before. um yeah well i wish i came up with it.

but i'm gonna pretend i did. but it's just knowing it's knowing what. your triggers are. knowing yourself at your worst and being. comfortable with it you know i. i can proudly say that i can't. there's very little that could happen to. me now that. i don't have something in place to help. me. navigate it you know i i so i've been. having this conversation with one of my. best friends. and he's i'm going to say the context. because i think because you've had. you've been through the therapy maybe. you can offer some advice sure.

he was saying to me the other day that. he is so easily triggered in the moment. by certain things he thinks it's because. he used to get bullied when he was. younger on the playground. but for example if someone was to say. that he was wrong or present evidence. which proved he was wrong. or his romantic partner who he's i'm. currently with. were to get in a little bit of a tif. with him it's kind of like this red mist. and he can't control it and then ten. minutes later i don't know why i don't. know why i do that yeah yeah. how did how did you find out what those. triggers were and you said you've got.

something in place to deal with it. what is what is that because he was like. in the moment when i'm. sat with my girlfriend at dinner yeah. and the trigger goes. if i walk off that's storming off if i. go silent that's sulking. so what the [ __ ] am i supposed to do. yeah um well it's gonna sound ridiculous. but. listening is really difficult when you. feel as though you're being challenged. and nine times out of ten any conflict.

that i've ever had hasn't. actually been about me so to have. the resolve to shut the [ __ ] up. and listen sometimes allows you to get. through the things that are triggering. or annoying or make you angry or. frustrating. and get to the heart of what something. what's actually being said and why. and then when you get to that it just. becomes so much easier because most of. the time it's not actually about you. you know maybe something you've said or. done is triggering to the person that. you really care about you sat across the. table from you.

and if you're willing to get beyond the. fact that they're saying something that. in the moment makes you angry. you can actually move forward together. in a way that just didn't exist before. the the thing that's jumping in and. that's it's. it's commanding your brain to try and. win or to go for victory or self-defense. though. yeah that you know that can come from. the playground that can come from a. comment your dad made you when you were. four or. whatever so especially if you're someone. who has come from nothing and has. succeeded yeah you know it's you against. the world for a huge chunk of that you. know.

earlier stage it's very easy to need to. win. everything in life especially arguments. but most of the time winning an argument. actually ends up putting you backwards. because what you described there is i'm. from what i understood is. ego yes you have to build and i. genuinely believe this too especially. because i was a very young entrepreneur. in rooms with. you know people that were not the same. skincare as me and three times my age. when i was first pitching my. my ideas and at some point you have to. develop a sense of like. huge confidence and self-belief which.

has to kind of. flirt with having a big ego because. i promise you like as you'll probably. know um i don't want to speak for you so. i'm saying probably there. people will try and [ __ ] with you. especially if you're they i mean of. course because everyone's trying to win. in their own little personal war. especially if you're an outlier yeah if. you are the t-1000. yeah people really want to figure out. how they can break you. yeah and some people get off on that. yeah um. and i'm sure you've experienced that i. certainly have but. i don't know uh in my experience.

a lot of the time when i find those that. that conflict where i find people trying. to push buttons. it doesn't take much thought to. recognize where it's coming from. right and most of the time it's not. about you i mean books like. uh ego is the enemy or you know uh start. with why like they're really or. leaders leaders eat last yeah the simon. says um. that's a great one for ego um i i sort. of learned a lot from that about how to. lead and. also what true leadership can do.

and that sort of unnatural thing. of not being submissive but allowing. someone. to find their answers with your guidance. as opposed to you telling them. is so powerful because it just makes the. bond so much stronger. you said i read that you wrote that you. had what part of your therapy sessions. was to really understand your. issue with father figures and the. sort of tricky relationship you had with. father figures yeah yeah.

uh there was a disappointment that i. felt even as a a young age. in that i didn't have the perfect dad at. home. or at least a dad that i felt that i. deserved as a kid because i was a good. kid i was. i was working i was doing well at school. i was clinging to my sisters like. i i thought i was a good kid and i felt. that i deserved a different kind of. dad at home especially someone as. someone who was so obsessed with tv you. know. i'm looking at uncle phil going why. can't i have what will and carlton have. you know i want an uncle phil um.

and in going to some of the houses of. kids that i was going to school with and. seeing how their dads fathered them it. made me. um disappointed that i didn't have that. at home but. i've spoken about this before and this. is a book that i've been working on. uh called bits of dad um and i was. incredibly fortunate. um to have bits of dad um. because of what my mother invested in me. so my mother. taught me from quite a young age to. recognize what a good man.

looked like which helped me pick the. right friends and ultimately pick the. right mentors and people to follow. so i say bits of dad because. i would look up to and ask questions of. mark who worked at the play center. at the after school club at my school. and he would help me with. sort of dealing with some of the. dynamics in my friendships at school. and then i had billy mcqueen who i call. my tv dad a producer who i met when i. was 12 years old at disney. who would answer any professional. question that i needed help or guidance.

with. and then there were these other men who. helped me with self-discipline or money. or even. football or even you know conversations. about women and relationships. and amalgamated they made the perfect. father but i had the bits. and the bits were enough for me. so when you're going to therapy was it a. question you're opposing to your. therapist about how you get a better. relationship with father figures or was. it. a um was it about authority was it about. bro we've had so many conversations. about dad i couldn't tell you what it.

was specifically but. i think just knowing that. being a good man is such an important. thing for me and my future. and knowing that i didn't have quote. unquote good men at home. uh has always been something that i've. revisited and tried to unpack and. understand. and um it's something that's in the. front of my mind in a lot of ways as i. said you know that so many of my friends. are now becoming fathers seeing how they. parent. and also seeing the decisions that they. make and now becoming a godfather for. the first time you know i'm not dad.

i'm not a jace you're saying so i could. yeah yeah yeah you know you you go. around you pick up you change nappy. sometimes i haven't changed teddy's. nephew just yet because he does massive. um but um knowing that when that kid. gets a little bit bigger. i can help sam this guy who's a mate of. mine who i love dearly. and maybe the bits that he can't do with. the bits that he doesn't want to do. and i offer a different perspective as. well i. i one of the really sort of fascinating. point i've just become a godfather again. congratulations time last week.

so that's and i'm particularly close to. the dad one of my best friends worked. for me for seven odd years so i feel and. it's also. the child is um so my friend is the dad. is is is black and. the the mum is white so the the kid is. probably going to look a little bit. a little bit like me so i feel a greater. sense of responsibility it feels like my. first. my first real kid um there was something. you said. a quote where you talked about really. understanding how precious your time was. and the the actual quote is no one like. me has had this opportunity.

so i'd be a fool not to make the most of. it i really want to understand that like. driving force within. within you that's that's um still. driving you today and i i've sat here. with so many. um successful people so many successful. uh black men. um i've analyzed myself and it tends to. be a bit of a cocktail sometimes your. story from the council estate. sheds some light on that yeah and you. know liverpool wrote that really shed. some light on it as well. um and the bit we talked about being. underestimated and.

you know feeling sometimes like the. outlier in certain rooms yeah. um but that thing about time and that. sense of responsibility. you speak to is because you saw that. word and you're right that was. almost your feeling of responsibility. yeah. it's really complicated and. i think the idea of responsibility comes. from understanding that i was one of the. first people to. uh be given a platform either on prime. time or on children's tv and so on and. so forth and. because i've always been myself.

[Music]. regardless of who i was at that time and. you know having been on tv for so many. years. that version of me has continued to. progress you know as a teenager. presenting kids tv with cane row and you. know. uh air force ones and the mecca tracks. your academic sweatsuit. knowing that i'm not just wearing this. to my dressing room i'm wearing this on. camera. says something it says something i'm on. the bbc. and i'm dressed like the boys that you.

cross the street from that was like. i understood even at 18 that that was a. thing. that meant something and subsequently. you know i've had kids come up to me. over the years saying i grew up with you. on tv and. bro i loved watching you because we. dressed the same we talked the same. and you were doing that and it just made. me feel like i existed. and when people say things like that to. strangers it's so powerful. and i assume that that might be the case. even as a teenager.

and i'm so glad that i was right because. that desire to be me whatever room i'm. in. has served me well and that's gone from. presenting. kids tv right the way through to writing. and directing now like. i've just completed my first feature. film pirates. uh which will be out this year and i'm a. producer i'm a writer and i'm a director. in this movie about three. men of color men 18 year olds right. and i employed the crew.

i am sat there in interview rooms. interviewing heads of department. deciding who is going to ultimately set. the mood. for this thing that really matters to me. because as a writer director it starts. with the script. but as a director you're on set and. you've got 150 200 people working for. you. and if you don't lead in the right way. they'll decide. what this environment is going to be and. the big concern for me was i'm looking. at. three versions of me i've got a moroccan.

kid a ghanaian kid and a west indian kid. who were 18 who were leading their first. movie. i remember being 18 desperately trying. to get auditions for movies and not. getting them. it was a very different landscape then. so i understand the responsibility that. i have today. to put on for those guys for redder for. elliott for jordan. it's my responsibility to put on for. them and create an environment for them. in a way that just wouldn't exist. if the man at the top of the tree didn't. intrinsically understand them. because nobody understood me coming up.

that's where the responsibility comes. you know so this is a tough question to. answer because i would find it. tough to answer but i'll answer it as. well if you want me to but. what what what is the best and in your. own self-assessment. what is the best and worst part of your. leadership style. um i think the it's easy to say the best. isn't it. i'm great okay let's start with worst i. think the worst part of my leadership. style. is that i want everybody to have a good.

time all the time. oh okay interesting i do please explain. desperately well. when you're responsible for the. environment when you pick the people. if it goes left or if you pick the wrong. person it's on you. and it's your fault and that feels [ __ ]. when you get it wrong. and it affects people that you care. about that feels terrible. so i desperately want everything to work. out. in an environment where i'm responsible.

you know so i think that that's probably. one of the biggest failures. that i hopefully will be better at in. the next project you know. to be really transparent sometimes you. have to replace people midway through a. shoot. and it's knowing when is the right time. and also having the balls to say. you don't quite get what we're trying to. do so thank you for what you've done but. your. your services are no longer required you. know that's difficult. yeah especially if you empowered them to. begin with yeah and to take it away is. tough. um i think the thing that i'm good at. is people management i'm good with.

people i'm good. on a one-to-one basis as well as with. the group um. and i think the thing that i'm best at. is understanding my actors because i. once was one. and knowing that you know they just want. to do a good job. and are individuals some might require. talking to before a take some might. require being left alone. some might require some coaching or some. confidence boosting some might require. being told to rein it in. you know i with pirates.

i decided that i wanted to make sure. that my three central guys. were a little family before we even got. on set so. i contacted one of my mentors um richard. curtis write director who. uh wrote uh notting hill uh. love actually four wins in a funeral um. he and his wife emma. uh freud who are amazing amazing couple. uh i met through comic relief which is. also something that they do i mean. they're kind of amazing uh when i was 18. i met them through comic relief and. they've been in my life ever since.

and when i started writing off the back. of spending new year's at. one of his places i said look could i. would it be possible to take one of your. homes by the sea so i can go and write. there and they're like absolutely and. they've given me. they've opened their doors to me for me. to go and write at their. one of their their homes and the desk. that i i wrote. a few drafts of pirates is the death. that richard wrote notting hill on. so i'm rubbing my desk come on give me. some of this good stuff come on. um and prior to shooting. i the guys allowed me to i asked them.

and they were absolutely fine with the. fact they. actively encouraged me to bring the boys. to the house for the weekend. we spent the weekend by the sea cooking. together watching coming of age movies. talking about the movies uh very much. about. friendship and coming of age but it's. also set in 1999. with a whole uk garage backdrop so the. entire music in the movie. is ukg and the boys are desperately. trying to drive from north london to. south london and the peugeot 205 to get. into twice as nice. on new year's eve 1999. that's the movie.

it takes place over one day right. so you know we got like spoonie on the. phone or we got like the heartless crew. on the phone and the boys were just sort. of learning about garage and. they were also forming these. relationships and when we got on set. everyone was like oh so you guys have. been friends for years right and i'm. like no we just you know. just hung out and in now we're at the. point where we started doing screenings. people have watched it and they're like. the chemistry between the boys is unreal. and i say. all of this to say that the thing i'm. most proud of. is that i recognize what is necessary to.

get the best. out of my actors and as a result i'm. incredibly proud of what they've done. i'm just really excited for them because. i know that. they're about to have very exciting. careers one of my actors red-eyes a. moroccan kid. and he's amazing he turned 21 while we. were shooting well during our break we. got broken up for kovit we got stopped. mid-shoot and we went back thankfully. and finished the movie but. red is this young incredible uh kid from. uh from morocco. london moroccan descent and he said to.

me like in the audition i was like. you're. so naturally funny why haven't i seen. you do more comedy. and he said mate i only ever get the. the the child of terrorist the young. about to be turned terrorist role i only. ever get. those parts he said i've never read for. comedy ever because i'm always reading. for the same thing. which is why when this came across my. desk i've done everything i can to be. good at it because i don't want to just. play a terrorist. i'm more than that and for him to be in. this film and to be.

so funny it's just the most amazing. feeling ever. to give somebody that platform you've. created so many critically acclaimed. amazing documentaries right and they're. so diverse in their. subject matter thank you yeah no just. i was going through yeah yeah it's. really just like it's. so diverse but i i wanted i wanted to. know of all and this might be like. picking your favorite kid or something. but. of all the documentaries and all the. moments and those those those stories. that you've told. is there something where you think this.

is why i started. man that's so tough because there's. something in every film yeah genuinely. yeah it might even be the lesson that. you know you made a crap a crap. documentary and you knew it going in but. you did it anyway. there's been so many amazing lessons so. i think the thing that comes to mind. most whenever i'm asked this question. is um the south african preacher i made. a documentary called the millionaire. preacher. um and there was this guy. called uh umboro who is still active as. a preacher i mean he recently i think he.

got arrested. for selling pictures uh to his followers. uh that he took when he went up to. heaven. so he recently i think has been arrested. for that i'm not entirely sure what's. going on with him now but anyway at the. time when we went to make the. documentary. with him he had a congregation of about. 10 000 people and he was a. multi-millionaire several rolls-royces. you name the car he had. it mansions the lot and his entire. congregation was made of poor black. people. and he fell out with me. because he didn't think i respected him.

enough. because i came to the film as somebody. who isn't particularly religious but has. a religious background i grew up in a. pentecostal christian church. my stepfather was muslim i converted to. islam when i was a kid. and in my teens i decided that faith. really wasn't for me in that. context so i'm looking at this man. thinking you are. literally exchanging people's faith for. their. pay packet and i was disgusted by him. by everything that he represented before.

i'd even spoken to him. before i'd even begun to unearth who he. was and what got him to that place. and it was an incredible learning. experience when he decided that he. didn't want to film with me anymore and. you know his armed guards. were sort of like you know had their. fingers on the trigger as. i was trying to force the point that he. should keep talking to me and he was. just not interested. i i came to realize that. it's not about me the reason i was there. was not to have a personal experience.

the reason i was there was to make a. film that could potentially. shed light on an issue or teach. something to people across the uk that i. would never meet and ultimately the. world as the film went on. on netflix and i had a similar situation. when i made a film about. being young black and gay i have a. family member who i'm incredibly close. to who is a gay man. and um his coming out was this. incredible moment for me in terms of. realizing. how difficult his life had been up until.

that point. because of what he worried about because. of what he thought. might happen um and i wanted to make a. film about that. and cut a long story short ultimately. the film for me didn't feel as though it. nailed it. and i was really really disappointed and. uh the production company that i worked. with at the time would always do. screenings of the film as the films as. they went out so we went to. the exec's house and we're in his house. and we're in the kitchen watching it and. the credits roll and as the credits are.

rolling everyone's sort of high-fiving. each other going ah we killed it we're. trending on twitter this is brilliant. everybody loves the film. and i'm just like that isn't the film. that i had in my head that doesn't speak. to the. the specificity of the experience in the. way that i wanted it to. anyway point being i went into my dm. on all the social platforms i was on at. the time and every. single mailbox was filled with messages. from young men and women. saying we saw that you were making this. film.

so we purposely watched it with our. parents and i've just come out to my mum. because of the film you made i was able. to have a conversation with my dad. because of some of the things that were. happening on screen thank you for giving. us that opportunity thank you for. opening the door. and i felt like an absolute idiot in. that moment. because i was so busy worrying about. being missed our. program maker and making this film that. was perfect in my mind's eye. whereas in reality the conversation that.

was being had had never been had before. let alone on the bbc and as a result it. actively changed lives. of people watching it literally changed. the lives of people that messaged me. wasn't about me and i felt really. embarrassed myself. it's really interesting that balance of. it being. not about you but it comes to me. yeah do you know what i mean it's that. it's that yeah it was it came it was. birthed out of your own personal. experience and your desire to tell a. very important story which had clearly.

moved you emotionally. enough to commit your life a portion of. your life to telling that story so it. but but also i completely understand. what you're saying which is like the. outcome is not about you. i guess yeah um the experience is yours. yeah but the experience that people take. from the content you will never own. i will never know how much what i do. affects people or doesn't. there's someone out there right now. who's seen everything i've never done. and i'll never meet them. similarly there's someone who i'll bump. into tomorrow who's just seen one film. and will have a really important.

conversation with me. you know on a lot of levels for both of. us potentially i'm not responsible for. what happens with what is created once. it's out in the world. and being comfortable with that is quite. difficult. but also quite freeing in a lot of ways. quick one as you might know i've. recently teamed up with a new partner. for the podcast. called my energy and they're best known. for their pioneering renewable energy. products. but they're also doing so much to try. and help all of us navigate some of. these. alienating um complicated terms as it.

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check it out myenergy.com they're an. awesome company round by an. awesome awesome founder one of the real. uk british success stories. and uh i couldn't be more excited to be. a partner with them and let's talk about. money then. so you mentioned money there what role. does does money play in all of this. stuff and success in your view in. in life well i've never chased it which. is probably why my account hates my guts. you know i walked away from prime time. tv that you know. is a very rare air in terms of the. amount of people that get to host those.

shows that get millions and millions of. viewers and also the payment that comes. with it. you know i didn't enjoy. hosting those shows i didn't enjoy being. in that space i didn't enjoy being told. what to do. and say i essentially was being asked to. not be me. and that didn't work for me and in. walking away from that and focusing on. documentaries. i walked away from a lot of money and. knowing that i was going to take a hit. financially. ultimately being able to get to the. place that i am now as a filmmaker.

um was something i was very aware of so. money has never been a driver for me but. it's been something that i've been. conscious on because you've got to live. right. and also i look after a lot of people. and i help a lot of people and i support. people. so i've always wanted to do that so. money has always been important in that. sense but it's never been important. because. i'm going to show you that jump you. described there where you swing from. being. like a tv host to saying you know i want. to make my own documentaries. feels like a risk it is yeah massively.

talk to me talk to me about that the. feeling. you had when you thought you know what i. want to go and pursue myself now yeah. and my sort of intrinsic i always get. roasted for using my insurance i can. extrinsical. intrinsic fulfilling passion yeah um. despite that i'm gonna have to take a. financial. cut potentially yeah i might not you. know and the risk there's no guarantee. here right this might not work out might. not get commissioned. well it's the same thing with radio you. know i hosted radio for 10 years i was. at radio one for a decade. and i walked away i left hosting the. chart show.

not because i was fired but because i. decided it wasn't right for me anymore. because i stopped learning. and for me it's always been about what. are you learning how much you're. enjoying this. and does this align with where you are. as a human being does this align with. your passions. does it align with what you care about. and you know i. you touched on yourself earlier in the. conversation when i. recognized that i didn't want to talk to. harry styles for 30 seconds. about the new video i wanted to ask. how the hell are you managing all of. this you're nine years old.

like mate how are you managing this. there are grown. women that are hunting you down yeah. sexually yeah. and you're figuring out who the hell you. are as a person how are you managing bro. i wasn't allowed to have that. conversation on radio one. but i was in my documentaries you know. and. you know every form has its limitations. which is why. documentaries have um grown into. filmmaking. because now i can actively write. the conversation as opposed to sitting.

down with someone. hoping that they're going to give me the. sound bite that makes that you know. makes that uh exciting for the audience. now i can write it. and through some of my experiences in. factual and life i'm able to create. people and create characters that are. flawed and interesting enough that. trigger conversations in the way that. i would hope to do in the approach to. making a documentary. whereas with the film drama specifically. i'm able to. literally lay it out and create it on my. own terms. and in terms of yeah and so in terms of.

like fulfillment happiness mental. well-being. yeah how important is it to be your true. self you know and. you know again we talked about the lgbtq. community and how the struggles they. face. when the suicide rates are higher. because they they. are forced in many instances to live a. life that isn't true to who they. actually are. from your own experience i mean from. mine i know that i mean. when you're i mean you're doing it now. you're making extraordinary. work because it's connected to who. reggie is. um you i'm guessing you're you're more.

happy you're happy. right you're fulfilled and um and it's. all. seems to be a really positively. reinforcing cycle when you get closer to. that. yes sense of who you are it's it you. know it is it's it's looking at your. door and i'm sure you have a similar. thing. you know you look at your calendar for. the day and you go what am i actually. doing today. and we've all had those days where you. see something in the calendar that you. don't want to do. seldom do i have those days now it's. very rare that i have something that i. don't want to do. um but professionally particularly yeah.

um and i'm really excited by that and. i'm proud of that. you know um everything that i i'm. invested in. professionally uh comes from a place of. passion. so for instance i made uh you know. talking about social media and all the. rest of it i made a drama for the bbc. called uh make me famous which was a. standalone one-hour drama. about the relationship between uh fame. social media and suicide and you know i. created a character who was a reality tv. star who.

after being on a hit show suddenly his. star begins to fade. and there is a newer younger sexier. version of him who's getting all the. accolades and love and suddenly his. rates going through the floor and. what that does to him on a on a mental. health level. and the conversations and research that. i was like embedded within in the build. up to write in the screenplay. were incredibly eye-opening for me. because i was talking to stars from. reality tv past and present. and hearing the difference between. people who have been on reality tv 15.

years ago and today. was heartbreaking you know and seeing. the way that these kids. understand fame and and what they're. searching for you know. and also recognizing that i'm someone. who's hosted reality tv. you know and i have a really strange and. unique relationship with it so. my point is regardless of what it is i'm. doing. i care about it i care about it and. that's. anything from content to product i have. a dairy free ice cream. you know i have it sounds ridiculous but.

i have a dairy free ice cream i'm a. creative director and business partner. and blue skies. but this is a dairy-free ice cream that. is made in ghana. it employs 3000 plus people the people. that work there. all look like me and my family and they. are being given an opportunity. to not only have a career but be paid. properly. and it's on amazon fresh and it's in. waitrose and people here are enjoying it. in the summer not thinking about it but. what it's actually doing. is incredible it's changed the community. and this is something that i'm connected.

to so. whatever it is i do now if it doesn't. align with my purpose i don't want to be. involved. isn't it such a massive uh i reflect on. this a lot and especially when i'm. speaking to one that has. sort of immigrant parents that you know. our parents. central concern was survival yes and. what a privilege it is that people like. me and you can sit here and talk about. meaning and fulfillment and pursuing a. dairy-free ice cream from guys just. it seems like you know i think immigrant. children. will and hopefully understand the weight.

of. that that response almost responsibility. you know when you when so close in your. your your family tree there was people. literally fighting for survival. yeah um i just think that's it but the. difficult thing about that is and this. is a conversation i'm having a lot you. know. talk about people becoming fathers a lot. of my friends are from a similar. background. you know black white and different you. know whatever children of immigrants or. white working class. now that they have worked hard and found. a level of success. and are now becoming the parents the.

lives that their children have. will be worlds apart from the struggle. that they experienced. how do you navigate that relationship. with your kid. who for intents and purposes is. silverspoon because you've worked so. hard. yeah you've now made it easier for your. child and are you going to be mad at. that kid. yeah because things are easier how do. you raise that child with the same. values. you know i hope that's a rhetorical. question well i definitely don't have. the answer because i'm single i'm not.

even a dad. so i don't have to have that. conversation just yet nice segue. to me. okay so you're single talk to me about. that how. are you going to be waving a partner oh. yeah this is like tinder cast. um amazing so so tell me is reggie yates. hard to date. uh absolutely why uh for the same reason. that you are. your business it's the truth it's the. truth i i i have a feeling everything.

i'm about to say you will identify with. and that is the um. disclaimer everything i'm about to say. will probably make me sound like a. massive pratt so. please don't judge um. you're not like a lot of people uh. you're not like most of your friends. because of the life that you've chosen. for yourself and more importantly the. person that you've had to be. to become the person that you are which. as a result means that your dating pool. is small because. if we're talking about someone beyond uh.

being attractive. and needing to have the value system or. the outlook. or and this is the really difficult. thing the understanding that you require. it suddenly becomes incredibly hard and. one of the stumbling blocks i've found. is hoping that someone will become the. person. that i really feel that i need in terms. of their understanding of me. um or expecting them to. and in doing the work and realizing the.

role that i play in that i've been at. different times. very responsible in that. those moments of conflict should we say. whereas today. i'm just very clear about uh who i am. and also what i need and i think if. you're very. open and honest about that in the. beginning. it makes it easier but it doesn't make. it easy. and the pool continues to shrink the. more my world changes. because a a guy that was like a mentor.

for me always described me as a moving. target like reg we're moving targets bro. like it's never going to be easy because. you continue to learn. you continue to work on yourself and you. continue to have that hunger to be. better. for yourself and for others and it's. incredibly difficult to find. someone that is either on the same path. or has the empathy and understanding for. you and the path that you're on. and the knock-on effects that that will. have romantically. so you said two things there that i.

really wanted to jump back to before we. proceed um. with this topic you said you've come to. learn who you are and what you need. yeah who are you and what do you need um. i'm a fiercely creative person. with a very young spirit. who needs friendship and. understanding and empathy. as a writer you know when you're. building characters uh one of my. favorite things to do for my characters.

is write down. what is the lie your character believes. and i think for the longest time i. believed that i would find a female me. and i couldn't imagine anything worse. today. and also you know you have to understand. the difference between your character's. wants and needs. which is why i find writing so cathartic. because i'm essentially doing. therapy on me as i'm creating different. versions of me at different points in my. life. and it's never going to be easy to be in. a relationship with someone like myself. or i imagine you. because we are moving targets i'm a walk.

in the park. um going back to what is it are you. single. yeah how's that walk going for you. that's good okay so going back to what i. need. what does what does and i find this so. fascinating because you've described it. there like i've been on this journey. over the last 10 years where what i. thought i needed if you'd asked me 10. years ago i would have gone. this hair color these eyes this way size. this fashion sense and as i've got older. and older it's just come down to these. like fundamental. i guess principles or values yeah and.

now there's basically only three of them. but i want to i really want to know. where you are with what you think you. need now. i think it's very simple uh it's to be. with someone. that i can love unconditionally and that. will love me. back unconditionally that's the simplest. version of it. and that is flaws and all and i think. it's also. the desire to be understood and. also the ability to understand because i. feel like. reg i feel like there's a lot of women.

out there that would love you. unconditionally. and i still feel like that might not be. enough um. that's an interesting point i don't know. i think because i've had exes that loved. me i genuinely know. i'm thinking of one in particular loved. me unconditionally. but it wasn't enough okay so the point i. was about to make and i think that this. is something that might. i don't know i'm interested to see if. this speaks to you is. the understanding part of it right i say. understanding and it feels like quite a. blanket term. but what i mean by that is.

culture is such a huge thing for me you. know. like i'm walking around at the moment. with this tiny little chain on but the. pendants on it. are jinyami which is a ghanaian. symbol which means trusting god i've got. a little. africa symbol and i've also got my. family crest right i don't even think. about these things anymore but. when i think about what i have on me. literally. my family is incredibly important to me.

my relationship with my spirit is. incredibly important to me and where i'm. from. are incredibly important to me and there. is a huge difference between empathy and. understanding. and being in a relationship with someone. that doesn't understand those three. pendants. and doesn't well if they don't. understand those three pendants they. won't understand me. so when i say understanding i speak to. that. and it's very easy to say that you can. love someone unconditionally. but when you're someone like you or i. who meets a thousand people a week.

some on the street some in situations. like this some through crew that you. will never meet again. you long to come home look at your. partner. and not need to say anything and for. them to understand you and that's why. understanding such a huge part of it. professionally as well right because you. because you coming your work's going to. take you all over the world and. you know an insecure partner might think. oh they might. try and compete with your work they. might be jealous of your work they might. well does that mean he doesn't love me.

he's spending x time away in a jail cell. yeah. what about me it's part of it. yeah because work is and isn't. um it's a part of who i am you know i go. to the cinema twice a week. i've just put a movie theater in my home. and god forbid. anybody tell me that i shouldn't be in. there as much as i intend to be. movies have got me where i am and have. helped like i learned to shave. watching danny glover teach his son how. to shave and leave a weapon.

films are a huge part of my life. and you can understand that you know. uh you have to understand me. professionally just as much as you do. emotionally spiritually. and culturally do you think in. relationships you're selfish. i definitely was not so much now um. i i i learned the hard way i've been in. failed relationships and i've also. even in my most recent relationship my. desire to understand. uh only went so far and i've you know. done some more work on myself.

and ultimately didn't work out but i. think i understand why and i definitely. understand the role that i played in. that. last question on this particular one. before you can just throw it back at me. if you wanted because i've just been. like. refusing to give my perspective here. because i really i i've really. gained a lot from this kind of. conversation yeah sure um if you spoke. to your. former partners what would be the one. common. theme as to why they think the. relationship didn't work. um i think my my previous partners will. say that i.

always operate with the best intentions. but didn't listen enough. and listening so important. oh my god especially if you've got a lot. to say and especially if you you've done. work and you know stuff. you think you know stuff um you can and. i certainly did in my 20s fall into this. belief that i knew enough and i didn't. need to listen to you because you don't. know as much as me i mean it's. incredibly unhealthy and potentially. quite toxic um. so yeah i think my biggest failure.

romantically has been to not listen. interesting where are you i think i. think i i've been very uncompromising. and i'd say selfish. i think i'm definitely probably in. relationships other than my. ex who i've who's taught me a ton of. really important lessons about. myself and about patience and about yeah. just. really realizing that really because i. used to once upon a time when i was. younger i used to think it was all about. findings i've said this in the last. podcast but. finding someone that was perfect so. again i was i was in search of like the.

female equivalent of me that was like. super career orientated had the same. beliefs as me. i saw the world would give me but it was. such a contradiction because i wanted. them at my beck and call. but then also wanted them to be busy and. when you analyze what i was. looking for it of course it didn't exist. yeah so the question in my mind moved. from being. are they perfect are they worth it and. when it becomes are they worth it. it's an immediate appreciation for their. and your lack of imperfection and also. that there's going to be some really.

tough difficult times where. it doesn't make sense to you they're. worrying about something irrational. they're upset about something that. would never have upset you but you have. to as you said earlier you have to. listen and you don't have to agree. and in fact you don't have to tell them. that you disagree yeah you just have to. listen and hear them out. and that's a skill that i've honed more. recently in my. my last current relationship where even. if i don't. agree on everything i listen and.

i will hear them out and yeah i'm. learning the lesson. how much do you take who you are. professionally into your romantics this. is a chip it's a perfect question to. follow up with. um no no surprise that you do what you. do because that's literally. what i what i've what i always ask. people which is in work context. i've been taught or in order to succeed. i've had to be someone. a set of values a way of speaking a lack. of compromise. a clarity of vision and it's worked out. and it works out.

so i come home at night and i'm like. same clarity of vision. same like that no [ __ ] there are. emotions. yeah and somebody else's feelings yeah i. want if she wants to go to the park and. do a walk i'm trying to. from my business perspective trying to. understand what the roi on that is like. i'm like but that's not what i'm wearing. yeah like what the hell are we doing. having a picnic. like i've got money you know so i've got. money to make or something but i've i've. had to realize that i have to be. two steves to succeed or different. steves to be. succeed in different parts of my life in.

certain contexts in a boardroom. if i'm doing a deal with a one of the. ceos of the biggest brands in the world. who is smashing his pen on the desk. telling me i'm an idiot and i'm at war. with him we're friends but this is how. these some of these people do business. i have to be a certain person right the. person i have to be when my partner. tells me something. like do you know about their personal. spiritual beliefs that i might not. understand in the full context. is completely different it's not about. being right or winning in that context. it's about listening.

trying seeking to understand and trying. if i can to try and find the sort of. mutual bridge in which we. we both share values even if the words. we're using are different. yeah and i've been on that journey for. the last i'd say two years because of. this person i met who. yeah who taught me those lessons it's. empathy and understanding isn't it. ultimately that's what it comes down to. what about you on that on that question. you asked me there about the person you. are in work yeah and then the person you. are at. well work has to be quite black and. white in a lot of ways doesn't it you.

have to be very clear and clinical. uh about what needs to get done to. achieve the thing. and that's just not the case when you're. dealing with a human being. if the thing is uh having a nice dinner. and having a conversation where. everybody feels heard. you can't be black and white about that. there is a gray area that. relationships romantic platonic. professional whatever that they they can. operate in that. require wriggle room and i think that at.

my worst. i've not allowed for wriggle room when. it comes to somebody's outlook or. perspective. ultimately i am very happy that i am. where i am and i think i've. ultimately made the right decisions in. terms of my relationship choices and. whoever i end up with hopefully will be. the best version of themselves and i. will be the best version of myself and. we'll figure it out. but what seems to keep coming up for me. is. what the foundations of any healthy.

relationship actually are. and the foundation for me that i'm in. search of is friendship. i think if i want to. not only spend time with you in the way. that i would a friend but also. i'm kind to you in the way that i am to. my friends. in terms of allowances and allowing for. uh being wrong and also figuring it out. and also having. a healthy conversation about something. when you're on different sides of the. argument. bringing that into my romantic.

relationships has. already started conversations in a way. that feel healthier than anything i've. ever experienced before. how how did your parents how do you. think your parents relationship has. impacted. your ability to form relationships. massively. yes massively um again you know we're. talking about the journey of others so. i'll try and be as respectful as i can. but as an adult. who is now a lot older than my parents. were when they had me.

um i'm able to have a little clarity on. their decision-making. and understanding that their age. probably played a big part in some of. the decisions that they made i'm sure. it's the same for you you know you look. at friends who. get married in their early 20s or um. essentially find their life partner. before they've had a life. and you can have an opinion on it but. you're not necessarily going to be right. because there's no way of knowing you. can have an assumption as to where it's.

going to go and how it's going to play. out because let's face it. who you are at 21 is infinitely. different to who you are at 29 let alone. 30 plus. [Music]. i just try my hardest to be as kind as i. can to the decisions that my parents. made. and how that in turn affected me because. i think culturally now we live in an era. where we think. more about our. how our behavior affects others than. ever before. and you know the way in which my.

stepfather spoke to me at one point or. the way in which they interacted in. front of us as kids shouting. whatever it was you know um i don't. think it ever occurred to them. the effect that that might have yeah. that's not because they're bad people. that's because culturally that wasn't. even in the conversation. at that time so i hold no judgment. towards. uh parents from that generation um. i've got no excuse though because you. know when i'm a parent. i know better i've had 10 years plus of. therapy and also i exist in the.

self-help generation where. we've read every book and we have. conversations like this and i have. conversations like this. with my friends and i know for a fact. that my dad. and my stepfather wouldn't sit around. with their group of. predominantly black friends and have. conversations about. you know healthy relationships and. mental health etc so. this is the last time i mentioned them. because i feel like i've said so much. about them but again richard and emma. when i went to their house um for the. first time in in notting hill. and i walked in and saw this sign on the.

wall. it broke my heart and excited me in a. way that i've never been excited before. and those two conflicting emotions stick. with. such a visceral moment that i had that. no one in the room was aware of. they've got a bunch of kids they have. this lovely house where all their kids. at the time lived at home. and there was this neon sign on the wall. that said everything is going to be. okay with literally in lights on the. wall in their house where their children. were growing up. and it grounded me to the spot when i.

saw it because i thought. subconsciously what is that doing to. these children. that they are safe as a message. in lights is something that they walk. past every day. to me that's what love looks like it's. being able to tell someone you love them. without having to say anything. based on the environment you've created. based on. who you are for them and them feeling. safe.

that to me was in one moment. a real a real sort of. opener in terms of what i would be. searching for and should be searching. for. that feeling of safety from someone that. doesn't need to be said. is that is that in part because you. didn't feel like you fully had that when. you were. definitely i think it's partially. because of what i grew up in. and partially because of the. relationships that experience up until. that point. you know it's funny because you you know.

a lot of things can we can sometimes. play play defense. play defense but it turns out well we. think we're playing defense but it turns. out to be self-harm. so we reject the chance of safety. because we're not comfortable with it. it's kind of like what i was. describing when i was 14 and jasmine. told me she loved me. i was playing self-defense but it was in. fact self-harm. you're trying to protect yourself yeah. in doing what feels right in the moment.

but ultimately. you're killing something that could have. been incredible i think we've all been. there. i certainly have definitely i'm just. really thankful that i don't do it. anymore. i remember sort of rejecting this idea. of um of who my family was and how much. of an impact that had on me. and then when i embraced it and i. embraced the good and the bad i was able. to see so much of the good. you know my father who i don't have a. relationship with is an incredible. musician he's still part of a band to. this day.

and you know i put on his album and i. cry. because it's like this man brings so. much beauty and joy to strangers. he wasn't able to give it to me but i'm. objectively able to find that beauty and. the art that he creates today. you cry when you listen to your. biological fathers particularly one song. jesus christ which song. it's called jojo's song and so we have. the same name i'm um he's called reggie. yes i'm reginald yates. and um he's obviously guardians because. you're. based on the day that he's born i'm not. i'm tuesday and so everyone calls him.

jojo right so it's jojo's song and it's. a song where he's singing and playing a. fun piano and it's just oh my god. it's beautiful and to know that this man. who for. chunks of my teens i really resented. because i felt that he wasn't there for. me. has this beauty in him moves me to tears. whenever i listen to him sing and have. you forgiven him. i forgave him a long time ago because. i think it was like i said the point. when some of my friends started to. become fathers. you realize that not everybody is going.

to get it right and not everybody's cut. out for it. and i was just unfortunate to not have. one of those world's greatest dead guys. i ended up getting a dad that just. really wasn't ready to to do it or grow. up. um and i can't be mad at him for. his journey that brought him to being. the man that he was when he became a. father. and on that point just to conclude that. point of the relationships love point do. you think you're ready. to be in that relationship that you said. you think you need. yeah i think so i think because.

i'm on my journey professionally and the. worry of not getting there which could. affect you romantically doesn't exist. anymore for me. that's a huge thing that is taken out of. the equation of who i am romantically. i think because of the age that i am and. the experiences that i've had. i'm very close to being who i will be. for the foreseeable. yes i am a moving target but the. target's moving out you know. the things that are changing in me. aren't as big as they were in my teens. into my 20s. so meeting someone today and being with.

them in five years i don't envy. just being totally different people it's. so interesting. it's easier yeah sure i love that point. and you talk about the moving target the. way that i've come to learn. to to sort of mentally understand it in. my mind is like. you imagine two lines and then from this. point onwards the lines start moving. and if they are one percent if say. the reggie yates line is just one. percent to the right. you and the other line will move apart. over time and i think i love what you.

said there about like. i think i'll be a similar person in five. years time. which means like the degree of. separation won't be it's less yeah. so i think yeah that's a well the. greater journey has. been made up into this point and i mean. that personally in terms of. my development in knowing who i am the. level of self-confidence i have and also. what i'm fighting for. has suddenly been crystallized because. as someone who has. the ability to do lots of different. things i was running around trying to.

figure out who i was supposed to be. and at the same time worrying about what. i was leaving behind for so many years. whereas now. i've tried loads of different things. i've had lots of different kinds of. relationships i've traveled i've done. all these different things. that i know what i want for me and i. also. i feel fairly confident i wouldn't say i. know but i feel fairly confident about. what love looks like for me. what success looks like for me and what. fulfillment feels like for me. which instantly makes picking a partner. all being chosen.

a lot easier in that stage where you're. running around trying to figure out who. who you are yeah um for me that was a. very insecure stage in my life i talked. to you i said. i was before i wanted lamborghinis right. and it's funny because in that stage. when you're you're most insecure and. you're most searching for answers what i. tend to see especially on instagram. these days. is that is the stage where people arrive. at the conclusion. that they need a romantic partner to. complete them right yeah. and it's in fact what you've described. is no [ __ ] like that's the stage.

where you need to do the self-work. yeah and then people form these like oh. well i had a huge gap. so i filled it with a romantic solution. yeah and. you complete me as one of the most. dangerous statements ever right. because you don't yeah. and eventually we're both going to. realize that i don't completely when you. don't complete me you've got to be. complete. to meet someone who's complete to begin. something new together and it's that um. the idea of you know your life their. life and the shared life. right and being willing to recognize.

that they have to have a life. separate from yours and as you do. for you to build something together. that's separate and different. and i'm excited about that because i. feel as though my universe. looks the way that i've always wanted it. to i love the friends that i have you. know they're like family to me. i love the home that i have i love the. relationships that i have with my. my mother's like my mate now it's really. lovely and all of that has been work. that i've had to do on my own.

so now i can come to the table as a. healthy grown-up. and make healthy conversation and have. healthy decision-making you know. damn society wants you to rush it though. doesn't it it really does. you know it really does but i mean our. parents generation all got married a lot. younger than we didn't. look at the divorce rates yeah i think. being happy with who you are. first is imperative to being able to. recognize someone who is happy within. themselves. your work you're doing so much at the. moment this is kind of where i wanted to.

to end this is you're doing so much. across you know. your books you know your podcast i think. you've taken a little bit of a break. at the moment yeah yeah i'm gonna get. back to that but that's another. conversation your documentaries your. business. what are you most excited about what. does the future look like what is the. big. professional i mean if there is one. what's the big professional. i don't mean milestones i mean the big. professional. feeling you know what i mean the big. professional feeling is being creatively. fulfilled. in broad terms in more specific terms.

it's. my business we haven't. actively launched yet but we are working. and operating and that is five seven so. i have a company called five seven. uh which is a people product and content. business. which has a cause arm we have past the. mic which is a platform that we created. for young creatives. which is growing and doing really. beautiful things in terms of empowering. diverse voices. right the way through to content we make. everything from feature films like. pirates or.

you know make me famous um uh right the. way through to. uh product like blue skies so everything. that we do. at five seven has the fingerprints. of my outlook on the world. and this idea of understanding the power. of platform like. there are so many people that get to a. point of notoriety. and start selling slim tea. and there is no judgment on anybody that. does that but i. i judge you reggie doesn't but i do i.

judge you. i always go back to that mom in the. street who stopped me and said. you're a role model for my kid and me. hating it and then finally coming around. to realizing i have no choice in the. mail. if you have an opportunity to make. movies to sell products. to make tv shows to create a cause-led. initiative. why not make it good why not make it. speak to what you care about why not. make it something that. can actively inspire other people to be.

better than you are. and do more than you've ever done so for. me empowering others is a huge part of. my drive. right now and um working with young. talented people. inspires me to be better and as a result. i feel incredibly fulfilled you know i. don't see myself as a mentor but i've. technically. mentored three or four people and. they're like my little brothers and. sisters now that's how i see them. they're my friends who come around for. dinner or football or whatever and. you know guys and girls will call me and. ask for advice on their relationship or. on.

a decision that they have to make. professionally and i love that i have. that relationship with people because i. never had it growing up. i had these bits of dad but i never had. the big brother. you know there was always a distance. between me and the person that was. helping guide me um shortening that. distance. for me in the lives of others. is what success feels like so the big. thing is being. creatively fulfilled. financially free and ultimately.

understanding what it feels to love and. be loved. really and that's a journey that's what. we hope for. in your own view what is what is your. potential. um unlimited okay and i don't say that. because i think i'm lebron james. because i definitely can't dunk like. lebron yeah but i do. think that i don't think i know. anything that i've wanted to do like. really wanted to do. and i've really worked for i've achieved. i don't know.

uh and because that has happened. it can happen in any way shape or form. my mother believes that she's quite a. spiritual woman as most west african. women are. i'm sure i'm sure you've got your. stories but she believes that. everybody's born with a gift right. my mother believed that my gift is to. see and to communicate. and she always said that to me since i. was a kid you know you can see and you. can communicate. um and the communication thing is sort. of panned out. it's you know essentially how i pay my. bills.

sharing ideas and the the c part of it. is quite ambiguous in a lot of ways. because. what i've come to understand that to me. is that you know as a kid i used to. dream quite vivid things and they would. all come to pass. to you know learning about self and. doing some reading going some seminars. watching some stuff. you understand things about. manifestation all the rest of it and. that dream thing has sort of. changed into manifestation in a lot of. ways and when things start to happen. that you had in your head.

it teaches you you can do anything yeah. and that's how i feel right now i feel. like i can do anything i had an idea. at a funeral of all places two years. later it's a movie. that is coming out in cinemas and. i genuinely think that anything that i. put my heart to and my mind to. i can i can make happen i can make it. real if that's your world view. and you you believe that and you've seen. it and you've got evidence for it in. your life that when you think about. something when you see it. you can then create it is it frustrating.

when you speak to friends close friends. other people who express their dreams. to you yeah that they don't have that. too. no it's not reminds me right no but you. can't you can't be like that. and i'm i'm very i'm very specific about. words some. sometimes i try to be anywhere i hate. saying the word can't yeah i feel really. strongly about this. you can't allow yourself to think that. way because who they are is based on. their journey. yeah and they may beat that and get. beyond that. but you can't be mad at someone for.

where they are on their own trajectory. yeah it's so it's like when i because i. have the same world view where. i've built those case personal case. studies in my life that i could go from. being in most sides stealing chicago. town pizzas to believe. to believing and chasing that dream. failing along the way messing up failure. whatever. but being able to create the the life. that i that i was aiming for. and so when i see friends who express. their dreams to me. and i deeply believe that whatever like. we're not talking about going to mars.

right. we're talking about i want to be a. whatever or i want to try i know they. can do it. every part of me knows it's possible. because i've seen behind the curtain. and and they have what it takes and to. be fair when i started i had. like my math to ship my english [ __ ] my. parents weren't speaking to me we don't. come from a family that had any money. so i i know that the belief the. self-belief alone. the foundation of being born in such a. privileged country. is is more than they need to go after. that and i just have this [ __ ] thing. in me where i'm like.

you know i'm like you can and it it you. know i. get i i definitely i i get you and i. hear you because i've definitely felt. that before. especially when it comes to young people. that want you to help them. or that want you to mentor them and you. take a chance on someone. and you give them all the information. you give them the blueprint you give. them all the tools. and they still don't listen or they. agree. and they do the total opposite mate it's. like practice for parenting isn't it.

people that you love or invested in. aren't necessarily always going to do. what you think they should do. and you can't be mad at them for it. because it's their journey and. that is something that i'm incredibly. thankful for that the people that i've. had around me have allowed me. to not listen and make mistakes or go in. another direction like i had a huge huge. desire to be a musician. for a long time and i was making music. and i was offered a publishing deal and. i was. collaborating with everyone from i mean.

i won't even say the names but you know. i made an album and. i had a deal on the table and i. i was adamant that this was what i was. going to do i was going to be the first. person that could host top of the pops. and perform on it like that was. that was my thing right and when my god. rested soul music lower at the time. richard and she sat me down and said. okay you see that top of the pops that. you're hosting you see that radio one. show that you've got you're gonna have. to leave all of that bro. to do this because you're gonna tour. you're gonna be in studio we're gonna. send you here there and there. the label will want you to record and.

blah blah and i was like i don't wanna. give all that up. and it was like all right so are we. going to sign this thing or not. and i walked away from what would have. been another career. because ultimately it wasn't what i was. supposed to do and i wasn't willing to. give up the thing that i loved but i. needed to spend. three or four years of wasting the time. of people that were producers and and. and. singer-songwriters who come and. collaborate with me and people gave. studios were giving me free time record.

labels were offering me contracts they. were rewriting them. all of this investment into me. for me to say now i'm just gonna go back. and do what i was doing before i met all. of you lot. sorry you know. i've done it i can't be mad at someone. else who's. doing a similar thing because there is. that point in your life where you have. to figure. out through mistakes or through trial. and error. what you're ultimately supposed to do. amen. i'm glad you agree no i do because i. would love you to challenge no i love.

but i. that's why i do it because i know listen. i know that i'm like so so many of my. approaches in so many areas of my life. are so imperfect. but i love getting the perspective from. someone else because everything you've. said i. completely agree with and of course. you're of course you're right. but i still contend with that feeling. because there's this there's this like. bias in me that i've had it's it's. weakened over time but. really wants people to um feel what i. feel in my life. and uh and that is an awful bias because.

it's projecting my own values and world. view. and what i think happiness for everyone. looks like onto them. um so i i yeah you're not the only one. you know i a million percent have done. that myself yeah and. even in relationships right absolutely. so absolutely if you do this you're. going to be like this. which means you're going to be just like. me and you're going to be great the most. frustrating one is whenever you say to. someone you say. what do you want and they go this and. you go okay here's how you get it and. they go oh [ __ ]. you know and you're like well you said.

you wanted that this isn't that isn't. even my world view you said you want to. be a costa rican. belly dancer here is the cause and. they're like wow. well the truth is uncomfortable right. yeah and it's usually. [Music]. it's usually harder than people want it. to be and that. unfortunately in this conversation is. both the case for someone like yourself. who sat on one side of the table saying. this is what you need to do. and on the other side of the table the. person saying well i don't want to do. all of that. and what you both leave with is truth. and that is that you can't control.

someone else and that is that. you've really got to do the things that. you aren't willing to do to get what you. want you know. amen listen reggie uh you know the work. you've done with your documentaries i. just think is tremendous and i think. i remember once upon a time listening to. i think it was neil degrasse tyson say. that the most. important work we can do or the most. important people in our society aren't. the. people we elect into power it's the. electorate that elect them. and so therefore the most important. powerful work one can do. is educating the electorate and what.

that really means for me is like the way. that people think about whether it's. sexuality or regimes in other countries. whatever it might be. is the way they think dictates who they. then elect into power which then. impacts our laws in the society we live. in and that's the work you're doing and. i find that to be the most admirable. important work of it all so. thank you for doing that work thank you. for being a role model i mean i've. watched you. as a young kid growing up in plymouth. you know for. for many a decade and you know you've. been one of the faces that i even i. could relate to on tv because you look. like me. um and so i want to thank you for that.

as well but also thank you for your time. today because i think the conversation. we've had has been very honest diverse. you've you know you've shared things. that you didn't have to share and um. i know that comes from a very selfless. desire to impart value on people that um. might need it in various areas of their. life so thank you. that's incredibly kind thank you for. having me thank you pleasure thank you. [Music].

[Music]. you.