Professor Green: How To Overcome Life’s Hardest Challenges & Find A Purpose | E80

to say that professor green has faced. and overcome adversity in his life is. such a gross understatement. he's self-aware he's honest he's. critical of himself where he feels he. needs to be. i've got to do some work on myself here. things need to change so as you push. things down they coming sideways i can't. keep projecting my problems onto other. people and blaming them. you know what if i ever see you again. i'm gonna knock you out. and people are like wow do you wish you. could go back in time and change what. your last words to.

him were no of course not because that. anger was just. it was that constant it was him being in. and out of my life. him being such a kind generous gorgeous. man but being such a [ __ ] father i felt. like he was. threatening me and i felt like i was. right to stand my ground i didn't expect. that five minutes after that he'd walk. up behind me and put a broken bottle in. my neck. i got my phone i called my name and i. just apologized for all the work she had. put into me. that this was how it was going to end. [Music].

to say that professor green aka stephen. manderson has faced an overcome. adversity in his life is such a gross. understatement there's. moments in this podcast today where you. realize. how unfortunate his life has been at. certain moments. and how much of a seemingly unfair start. he had. that it almost doesn't seem like it can. be true. and we know professor green we know his.

music i grew up listening to professor. green's music we know his. documentaries more recently and how. inspiring and. vulnerable those documentaries have been. and most of us will know about the. tragedy that met him. in his early years when his dad decided. to commit suicide. but it's interesting to see how all of. these events came to shape this man a. man that is empathetic. a man that refuses to be bitter and a. man that has overcome. and thrived despite all of this. professor green is a remarkable person.

he's a remarkable guy he's self-aware. he's honest he's critical of himself. where he feels he needs to be. and because of that because of the. content the documentaries and the music. he's made he's one of my. sincere inspirations especially as it. relates to mental health. and the change that he's been able to. make in the conversation this is a. an honest conversation today and it's. one that i think everybody should and. needs to hear. especially men especially in the world. we live in. so without further ado i'm stephen. bartlett and this is the director ceo.

i hope nobody's listening but if you are. then please. keep this to yourself. [Music]. i did a lot of research on you. and i i've listened to podcasts you've. done and i've. read um parts from the book that you you. authored. and i i want to know from your. perspective what you think the most. pivotal moments were from your.

early years that came to shape the man. that you became later in your life. wow let's start with the big ones yeah. we went straight into the waiting. small talk to her it would be really. easy to draw from. uh some of the the more dramatic events. i think because they're the more obvious. um and they're they're highlighted quite. often they come up in conversation all. the time but i think. i don't think that their specific. moments in the same way i think the the. worst traumas that i actually endured.

weren't. any single moments they were cumulative. they were things that happened over time. um i think it was probably more a case. of. my or what shaped me. being cumulative as well it was the time. that i spent. with my great grandmother i was sort of. a six of us in the flat when i was born. there was. me my great-grandmother my grandmother. my mother and my two uncles so my nan's. three kids. my mum was the first person to leave the.

house when i was a year old. she was a consistent she know she was. she was there consistently throughout my. life but my name was my legal guardian. when i was by the time i was three. and at a point where my nan could have. started a new life for herself. she took on the responsibility of of her. mum. and her grandson but it was amazing. because. you know apart from the ancestral [ __ ]. sorry the ancestral shirt yeah well just. you know you think like my.

great-grandmother went through two world. wars whatever. relationship she had been through the. relationship that she had with my. grandmother. all the problems that they had as a. mother and daughter the problems that my. nan had. with my mother the problems that my. mother had with my grandmother what were. these problems. um i couldn't tell you because they. weren't my problems but they existed. and i was aware because there were. arguments and there was stress and there. was shouting and there were financial. problems and struggles. and there was robin peter to pay paul me. being shuffled off into a room when. you know a money lender had come around.

to you know pick up money and. conversations and. that i wasn't supposed to be privy to. but in a three-bedroom flat it was about. as big as a room that we're sitting and. it was quite difficult to. avoid being aware of these things um but. there was a lot of good people who skype. must be really tough growing up in. hackney but. i didn't have i didn't know anything i. didn't know any different. you know it wasn't like i grew up in. wheelchair until i was 13 and then it. was just. airlifted and dropped off in hackney and. told to survive you know it was all i. knew. but in hindsight there was a lot that.

wasn't mine to take on but that i. absorbed that that stress and that. anxiety definitely seeped into me and i. was a very anxious child. i was always man i got a tummy ache but. at the same time i was really fortunate. because when. when people talk about you know kids who. aren't brought up by. a or both parents they normally miss out. on the nurturing that i definitely. didn't because. my great-grandmother was always at home. she hardly left the house. not least of all because of her age um.

and that time i got to spend with her. it is probably what. made the larger part of what good is in. me or encouraged the good in me you know. i would run out into the living room. which was where she slept on a chair. that folded out. every morning when that weird holding. screen was on the bbc with a little girl. holding that. puppet with that which in hindsight is. quite scary. you're really weird um but before the. cartoons would come on and you know she. would read to me i always remember her. blue blanket that i'd jump underneath.

and she taught me to read well ahead of. my years you know basic numeracy and. stuff when i went to school i was ahead. of most kids because of that time spent. with my great grandmother and i enjoyed. learning so i saw validation in. the right places rather than throwing. tantrums at school like a lot of people. did because they weren't getting. attention. you know in single parent homes parents. have a tough decision to make do i go. out and work. and lose out on the time of my child but. be able to provide or do i lose out on. the money that i would make which would.

make supporting. a child easier it's a you know that's a. conundrum that's a really difficult. situation to be in. i was really fortunate i didn't lose out. on that. and i think it's that that's what shaped. me you know it wasn't. any of any single event really it was. that period of time. and you said your mum was the first to. leave the house yeah she. so my mom was 16 when she had me um wow. yeah. my dad was 18. they were separated very. quickly. um and my mum had a lot of growing to do.

i'm more than twice her age and i've. just become a father. i can't imagine you know being a parent. or having tried to have been a parent. when i was 16. i don't know. yeah 16 yeah my crazy age to. well you're a baby yourself aren't you. 16 it's like very much so yeah. and how was your what was your. relationship like with your mum from. that point onwards um so. me and my mum we've had an on-and-off. relationship in in the latter years of. my life.

i don't talk about it too much um. loads of stuff about how they're about. my relationship or lack there over my. dad because of how his life ended. um but you know i always i was brought. up to not air. dirty laundry and my mom did try she did. you know and like i said she was a much. more uh she was a much. more consistent part of my life than my. dad was. you know she made she made the effort. has it taken you some time to get to the. point where you can be.

compassionate about. your experiences with her i think it's. taken me some time to get to the point. where i can be compassionate about my. experiences with everyone. that i was involved with growing up um. and i think i got to that place quite a. while ago. and it's quite it's quite liberating man. it it's it's quite freeing because. that i think holding on to anger you. know it becomes resentment. and that leads to bitterness and and.

bitter is not something i'm interested. in being i think a lot of people. get you know end up quite bitter and. jaded quite early on and that determines. the rest of their lives. and i used to be. quite scared to even say the words i'm. happy because i would worry about what. was round the corners that i couldn't. see around now. i'm never gonna develop the power to see. around corners. um and worrying about what's out of your. control. um and preempting things that may or may.

not happen. is not the healthiest way to live um. it's not great for your mental health. it's not great for the quality of life. that you have because if you're. constantly worrying you know. i can enjoy a lot of what um or be happy. about a lot of the things that i've. achieved. with hindsight but actually when i was. going through the early years of. of my of the successful part of my music. career. there was a lot of things that i didn't. enjoy in the moment as much as i should. because i was worried about dropping the. ball. because i experienced loss quite early.

on um. and come from quite a disadvantaged. background and i wasn't used to a lot of. things i was starting to encounter i was. scared of of loss and of losing it and. dropping the ball you know it's why. i didn't take holidays i would attach a. few days here and there on to work. but i felt i was you know scared to. enjoy myself or to. to let go of that kind of almost. incessant need to keep working. because i was worried about losing it. but i wasn't enjoying what i had so did. i ever really.

have it um and it took me a while to get. to a point where. you know i'm in a place where i enjoy. things as they happen and life is a lot. more pleasant because. i don't spend my time catastrophizing. about what may or may not happen. um not least of all because i've. survived things you know and i know that. [ __ ] does hit the fan and things do. happen it's quite likely that i'm gonna. get through them. so i can worry about them happening and. ruin my life. day by day because all i do is worry.

about what may or may not happen which. is also distracting and doesn't allow me. then to focus on the things that are in. front of me and that are important. which will build a happier a steadier a. more consistent life for me. or i can i can deal with things as they. come. knowing that i have the strength and the. resilience in myself to handle things. um and it's taken me a while to get to. that point it's taking some therapy as. well. but it's kind of it it's it you know. i i feel quite calm and relaxed in.

saying right now that i am. happy and i feel quite secure and that i. can handle. what may or may not come my way talk. about worry then you referenced earlier. you'd say to your i think your nan that. you had a like a pain in your belly yeah. and i guess you didn't really know what. that was when you were younger nope. what did you come to learn about that. pain in your belly and it was anxiety it. was a night in my stomach the problem. was. i was born with a problem in my. digestive tract i had. um called i don't know if it was a.

procedure that was called pyloric. stenosis or the condition but stenosis. is. narrowing and my stomach basically your. pile of muscle at the bottom of your. stomach should open and close to let. food pass but mine was just closed so. it's six weeks old i have an operation. which has left me with a scar that goes. from there to there. um so whenever i said now i've got a. bellyache i've got a tummy ache man i. got tummy ache it was straight to the. doctors. um and that then. meant that i would go to the hospital. and have cameras up me. down me you know be put into machines to.

be scanned to make sure there wasn't. something physically wrong which there. wasn't it was psychological um i was. diagnosed with ibs. really early on and that's still quite. misunderstood. you know is it something psychological. that manifests physically or is it. physical and causes mental. problems um and i think that really. highlights the intrinsic link between. the gut and the brain um and it. again i guess that's a bit of a chicken. and egg situation.

never really considered that before. never really ever considered that there. might there might be a link between the. two. um and with ibs especially it's. something that i've. become increasingly curious about. because as i said to you before you. start recording i've definitely got a. problem with my gut i just haven't. figured out quite yet what it is. um going back to your sort of your. formative years was there anything else. through that period that. would shape the man you you became that. you can really think of between the age. of like i don't know. 0 and 16 like school life and stuff like. that and.

yeah um so i was i was quite a bright. kid. um and you sound surprised. most people i sit here don't seem to be. especially people that come from. that kind of background don't don't tend. to be that academic their smarts and. genius teams seems to come from other. creative sources or they're like like. yesterday we had to wrestle russell kane. and he's just like a. you know comedic genius and then became. a bit more academic when he left school. but you know i've kind of i i. i guess there's i've kind of gone full.

circle in that i have to use the. academic part of my brain and what i do. now more than i have done for the last. 10 years during making music um. but that wasn't really harnessed it. wasn't you know education wasn't big in. my family no one had been to university. so. me being as bright as i was i wasn't. pushed as as hard as i as i should have. been because my nan sympathized with. my situation my dad being in and out of. my life me being a very sensitive child. my mum not bringing me up um and that. all.

quite clearly affecting me um my only. problem at school was ever. the only problem i ever had at school. was was my attendance. um and i went from you know leaving. primary school. with the opportunity to sit the exam for. some pools. to at the age of 11 to a pupil referral. unit by the time i was 13. um because of attendance yeah because of. attendance. and by that point you know at 13 i. didn't really draw. uh i didn't really join the dots or draw.

a parallel between the two things. happening but my great-grandmother. passed when i was 13. um and that was very very difficult for. me. because she was the person who if she. said to me that everything was going to. be all right she was the one person i. believed up until that point when i. realized that sometimes it. isn't um and some of her last words to. me. when we were in the ambulance on the way. to the hospital where. i can't fight forever and i knew at that. point that was her. saying hey i've had my innings and she.

was 90. she had a good innings two world. wars. one world cup um i can't fight forever. yeah what was she what was she what was. the context of her saying that to you. um i believe that was her saying that. she had made her peace. you know she she had you know she lived. with. arthritis diabetes um. we made a good stock though you know to. go through what she went through a metal. plate in her legs she got run over when. she was 19. um i believe she she was um.

and this is only stuff i've started to. find out recently she was. um placed on a doorstep when she was a. baby and she was brought up in. foster care uh her sister wasn't i. didn't even know she had a sister until. recently. um and you know we talk about ancestral. [ __ ] you can see where these things. start to. you see these things start and come from. and you know the issues that. abandonment and detachment cause they're.

they're more than just social issues. they. impact development i can just see. how it a lot of my family experienced a. lot of trauma early on from my great. grandmother to my grandmother to my. mother to my dad they all had. pretty difficult childhoods my dad ended. up in care because he was the six of six. children and his mum walked out. um so he was in care for the first few. years of his life he was also born a.

twin his twin. died at birth my namesake. my uncle who i never met steven died. when he was 19 went into a diabetic coma. and passed away two years before. my dad took his own life his brother. took his own life in the same way. in the year in between that of them to. taking their own lives he lost his. sister. to cancer that he was the last possible. donor for and he wasn't suitable there. was. you know there's trauma's been a pretty. the trauma's been pretty constant. throughout. almost almost all of my elders.

quick one starting from the minute the. lockdown is lifted we're going to start. bringing in some of our subscribers to. watch how this podcast is produced. behind the scenes. means you get to meet the guests meet. myself and see how we put all of this. together. if you want that to be you all you've. got to do hit the subscribe button. when you think about all that's happened. in your sort of generational cycles and. with your elders. and then this is me just thinking like. if had i been through that i would i. think i'd. i'd be overly conscious about how.

i maybe unconsciously um. can work to make sure that my you know. you've just had a boy right can make. sure that it like stops with me right. like you know what i mean as much. because yeah i mean i see it in my own. family i see that i've. there's parts of my parents that i've. become that i don't love. you know and i don't and i'm and i you. know what and my parents were actually. really. um un affectionate relatively. unaffectionate and. quite vacant i still call them by their.

first names and i find it really awkward. to call them mom and dad like i've. i've never in 27 years looked at my mum. or dad and called the mum or dad ever. not once ever never crazy and even like. i i i'm not close to them at all and i'm. terrified by the prospect. that when i have my kid same thing will. happen. um so that's what i want to ask is like. i would be like what are you what's your. thinking and your like concerns when you. think about your child and making sure. those generational cycles. end with you um my concerns are.

uh i mean my concern that. around that to be like 100 honest that. there. there aren't any um i had i've had. a child years before now i think there. would have been many. but i've done a hell of a lot of work on. on trying to understand myself trying to. it's weird right you spend so much time. learning and then you get to a point. where you're like now i've got to. unlearn. all of this [ __ ] because if you're if. you're fortunate enough to be smart.

enough to be able to take a long hard. look at yourself. and you're self-aware which is painful. at times but then you can put your hands. up and you can own. your behaviors um and you you know you. can take responsibility for your choices. and your decisions and. you know you go through relationships. and i found that points i was finding. the same person. in a different body oh yeah yeah and. then you know the same problems occur in. the relationship but. what's you know what's the common thread.

throughout that narrative i am the. common denominator so i can't. keep projecting my problems onto other. people and blaming them for just being. themselves. i've got to do some work on myself here. things need to change and that well. one thing needs to change me how do i do. that. i have to understand myself better i. have to understand my behaviors i have. to understand my insecurities it's hard. to do. it is because it's the most this you. know it's that kind of. i've never had this anxiety dream i've. only ever had the one where. i can't stop pulling teeth out of my.

mouth like and even in a dream going. okay i know i don't have that many teeth. but they're still coming out. but it's that whole like kind of all of. a sudden you're naked in front of your. entire school. if you're going to go and see a. therapist it look you have to go in and. be honest you can't lie to a therapist. um otherwise it won't work and so you. have to explore your deeper most. darkest and and frightening insecurities. in order to understand why certain. why you have certain behaviors why you.

respond so defensively in situations. what makes you insecure what did you how. did you go on so that process of. unlearning. all the [ __ ] you had to unlearn and like. turning the lights on i guess. yeah that started with therapy i think. it started before therapy. i don't think it i wasn't ready for. therapy until i started to do some of. that work myself. i think like you similarly i have grown. up. uh with the mindset that i can do. everything on my own. which is uh is it is.

it i mean it's definitely helped me. achieve a hell of a lot. but it it also has put distance between. me and people that it shouldn't have. and it's also made it hard for me to. develop lasting relationships. in at points in my life um some which. you know i i look back on and think i. could have i could have done better. i could have been better um all the key. things you had to unlearn. through that process though about. yourself mine was mainly defensiveness.

really defensiveness and i kind of want. to. i guess the attendance thing is that. that played out throughout my life i. found it very very difficult to finish. things um. and you know so i would always have. ideas i would always begin things i. would get to a point where that sort of. you know i didn't have my my nana as. she wasn't as present a figure is for me. to be able to just go now i've got a. tummy ache but i would still get. that feeling which would make me want to. withdraw and would make things harder.

despite that i've managed to kind of use. that same energy and this is why i think. you know stress is. comes down to perspective because work. can be stressed or work can just be work. right it depends on your perception of. it and so my anxiety can be anxiety or. it can be nervous energy. and energy is what you need to get [ __ ]. done and. i've done a lot of work around mental. health not least of all because of my. encounters with my own problems but also. what first made me aware of even the. phrase mental health was that my father.

took his own life. and that work kind of. i think around the conversation. of mental health um and encouraging. people to be more open and honest. with their sensitivities you should be. open to everyone be smart enough to be. open to the people that you can trust. because if you're open to everyone that. you're. opening yourself up to be taken. advantage of um. but the word the one thing that goes. missing in that conversation or two of. all too often is resilience resilience.

is incredibly important and. i think the only time that you can learn. or become. resilient without going through trauma. and surviving it. is therapy when you're not at a point of. crisis. so that's why i was saying i did i had. to do some of the work on my own for me. to be able to go to therapy. and then be able to grow through that. because if you just go to therapy when. you're at a point of crisis it's like. waiting until you get sick to go to a. doctor. you know i try now to take a more. proactive you know pro.

a proactive approach to my own health. and that's not just my physical. well-being that's my mental well-being. ultimately they should be one in the. same it's just health. um but i think we have a very reactive. nature to most things in. in in western culture we're not. encouraged to be proactive. and we also probably have a foolish. sense of optimism about. how life will unfold right we think. it'll all be okay our health will be. fine. we think we'll never really get old. because it kind of creeps up on you so. it's crept up on me i'm saying.

hey andy i looked in the mirror the. other day i saw gray hairs i was like. what the [ __ ] is going on here. i love it though what makes me laugh. right people always. moan about getting older yeah and i'm. just i'm very like i. i can be quite simple in a matter of. fact about things and it's just like. well okay. the alternative is you die right that's. the only way you stop getting older is. you die. so what's you know unless you're. biohacking you're trying to. lengthen your telomeres um but you know. it's.

i just think growing old is is great. growing older. is great if you can do it with with. i don't know with i guess we not just. with good intention i've always had good. intentions but i've made a lot of bad. decisions i think. growing older once you get to a point. where you feel happy and comfortable in. your skin. is is it makes it easier yeah i'm not. stressed about getting older because i'm. really happy with who i'm becoming. that's exactly it that's exactly it when. i uh this sounds like a [ __ ] weird.

thing to say i said okay. but like when i looked in the mirror of. the day and i saw gray hairs. it's funny because the most comforting. thought that i had was like. but i'm happy and like you know it's the. same thing it's like. i'm getting older yeah but i'm happy and. i'm i'm doing myself justice what i mean. by doing myself justice is like i'm. living my life. yeah i'm like being myself yeah and so. i'm happy to get you know the worst. possible scenario would be i look in the. mirror i see gray hairs. and i've been working at [ __ ] kpmg. because my mom said that was a success. and i'm like i'm on my way to a midlife.

crisis i'm not being myself i've not. pursued my dreams. if so feel like the clock is ticking but. when i look in the mirror because i feel. like i'm. i'm living my true self i'm like cool. every time i. you know they add another number to my. age i'm like cool ultimately i'm like. cool because it's. because i'm living my you know and. that's this sounds like a very. interesting thing to say but it's also. one of the things that's made me not. fear death like i used to yes i'm scared. of death. yeah because i guess it's getting to the. point of.

your life where you feel as though and i. do wonder if this played a part in what. my dad did getting to a point in life. where you think you can't start over. i'm too old to make the decisions i wish. i made um and it makes me. it's given me more. i guess more my comfort's a wrong word. but like. i've always been quite happy to fall on. a sword as long as it's my own. yeah yeah and i'm always more. scared about having and look i worked 10. years back. speculatively you know as far as music.

you know from 18 to 28 it was 28 when i. first sold the record i had people. around me going come on bro man you've. got a fantastic announced to do. um and i just i don't know if there was. like a bit of. of self-belief buried beneath all of the. insecurities that kept me going or if it. was just blind stupidity or a. combination of the two but i kept. going because i wanted it so badly and i. loved it. i loved it i really really loved it. there was nothing in my life at that. point that made me shake my hands like. writing a good lyric.

you know that type of excitement when. you nail something you know you're. walking around the room. trying to get that last line of. something and then you get it and you're. like. that feeling is not something that i get. from. you know many aspects of my life um. and so i i continued and. i think it's something that's it's quite. it's not the easiest thing to do is it. when you've got. especially if you're from a. disadvantaged background because you. don't have a fullback or a plan b.

or a grandparent that will die and leave. you inherit and so as you set you don't. have that security. but at the same time you know i know a. lot of people with that security who. don't push for anything. and every time i talk to them they've. got a different idea and a different. business venture but they execute and. achieve nothing. because they don't have to yeah yeah. yeah. it does you know i think there's there's. two sides to that coin you know if you. grow up. entirely comfortable do you ever want to. push. that hard to get to where you want to. get to. it's interesting because that hunger of.

not having it is is also an advantage as. is the. the you know the privilege of having it. i spend a lot of time talking about. huell on this podcast because they're. the sponsor of the podcast and i'm also. on the board at huell. i'm also an investor in the company but. um i've made a transition. recently not a transition i'd say an. addition to my huel. diet i've been drinking the rtd they're. ready to drink yours for a long time now. but as summer approaches. and as my goals my fitness and my health. goals have. started to shift a little bit i've.

become obsessed with. huel's black edition specifically the. vanilla flavor. the difference with the black edition is. there's 50. less carbs there's 33 more protein in it. zero. artificial sweeteners and it's naturally. gluten free so if you're. looking to lean up dare i say for summer. then try the black edition vanilla. flavor it's really really helped me lean. up and. i always you know take my top off on. this podcast to prove to you i'm not. going to do that today. but i take my word for it it's had such.

a radical impact on. um the amount of carbs and. visible fats that you can see on me. highly highly recommend trying. black edition vanilla flavor if you've. got goals to lean up for summer to. consume less carbs and to get more. protein. you mentioned your dad there and i. watched the documentary you made. where you um i watched it i think there. was two separate documentaries that i. saw. um about the topic and you went on the. journey of understanding. him um the life he lived and why he made.

the choices he he ultimately did. can you tell me what you you learned. through that process yeah. um quite concisely as well at the point. i'm at now and it's that i think the. difference between someone who will. take their own life and someone who. won't is the ability to tolerate how you. feel. at any given time and i've had moments. where i wanted to scratch my skin off. but i've never. contemplated suicide you know. i've never suffered suicidal ideation. there's. there's there's a big difference between.

lows. and also i think you know there's. something that's quite scary is the. hyper awareness that people have now. around everything everything has a tag. everything has a name everything is a. condition and i think. we're getting to a point now where you. need awareness before understanding. and then you know awareness. understanding action to me that's. the um the train of things whether it's. you know. let's keep the depression like i think. now there's a conversation around it but. how much is being actioned.

not enough yet but i do think it comes. down to being able to tolerate. how you feel because like i i've. at my very lowest lows i've come out by. carrying on. and my dad got to a point where where he. couldn't and there wasn't the support. around him. to to help him in those moments and. sometimes i think even if the support is. there. that choice is is that person's. it just seems so unthinkable.

but be lucky for that yeah yeah you're. right i've just spent. the longest amount so when i start first. started hearing about mental health. which is probably about 10 years ago. yeah when i was about i don't know 16. 18 maybe the term started to emerge yeah. it wasn't just he's meant or she's made. yeah it was you're crazy or whatever. yeah and then it. thankfully it's the stigma slightly. because it's changed over time. and i just have always struggled. to um.

to understand and this is why it's. almost become the strange thing to say. but a bit of an obsession of mine. to understand the position someone must. be in. to believe that to feel that that is a. better outcome for them. it's just and this is why it was so. powerful watching the documentary. because. you know even when you were doing a role. play with the the guy in the chair and. you. you were being the um the the friend and. the guy was sat in the chair. he was the you went to the clinic where. they helped people who have. having suicidal ideation yeah and and.

just even in the role-play session i was. like. oh god this is unthinkable it's just. something that i think someone who has. had the privilege. of good mental health will always. struggle to understand. and that's a problem because if you. can't empathize with it properly we. can't i don't think address it properly. you can i think you can empathize. without understanding. yeah that's true yeah you know and i. think we all too often we we want to fix.

things. soon someone says they're sad you're. like come on cheer up yeah that's not. helpful. that's what i mean i'm like i'm like. okay be upset what's. you know let's go through this you have. to kind of go through the upset rather. than. trying to suppress it yeah as you push. things down they coming sideways. yeah um it's i think. you know when my dad took his own life. one of the first things i wanted to do. was understand how he was capable of. doing that and i quite quickly realized. the only way i would ever understand how. he was able to do it is if. i'm in that situation yeah which i'm. never going to be.

yeah so i let that go quite quickly. um and i don't think it's a good idea to. try and i mean. unless you're studying psychology and. understanding the workings of the mind. which would allow you to empathize i. don't think it's good. to try and understand you know if. something seems irrational or forgive me. for using this word crazy. to you you will drive yourself mad. trying to understand it because they are. not the workings of your mind. and that's not healthy either yeah but. you know just going back to the hyper.

awareness thing i think people. will find themselves in situations where. they will call themselves depressed when. actually. they've had something traumatic happen. or something sad happened you know. something sad happens and your cat dies. and you don't want to get out of bed for. two days that's not depression you're. upset. you're dealing with grief and loss. that's normal you know if nothing has. happened. in your life that's traumatic and. everything seems great but you feel. horrendous you know or you can't feel. anything then that's something to be. addressed.

um i think we need to be careful of. of everyone diagnosed or not everyone. but people starting to diagnose. themselves with conditions that they. perhaps don't have. i think that's a danger in everything. having to have a tag now and everything. needed in the name and. you know everyone needing to be put in. the box. yeah and and then the way that we treat. people in those. scenarios when we've misdiagnosed them. or to quickly diagnose them. is also unhelpful right i've spent the. last six months working. pretty much full time at a mental health.

company in london called tai. and they uh they're a psychedelics. company they're probably the biggest in. europe then. one of the things that came to learn. from working there they're the biggest. in the world sorry not in europe. um one thing i came from working there. but also from reading one of my favorite. books which is up there called lost. connections by johanna hari. was i used to think growing up that um. because this is. what i was told depression was a. chemical imbalance in the brain. because something was broken and no one. ever told me. that trauma or what happened to you can.

cause depression so i just you know. you'd think okay well. and that makes you also almost blame. the victim more so than saying like if. it's like what's wrong with you. then it's like it's kind of you know. you're broken but if it's what's. happened to you it's a much more. empathetic approach. and also appreciates you know and that. was the big shift that i've experienced. in the last like. three years was i used to think. everything was just chemical imbalance. broken. yeah you know and then what comes with. that is often how do you fix the. chemical imbalance with chemicals.

yeah yeah exactly yeah the best. prescription in the beginning listen. there are some people that will always. need. medical intervention does help. some people it does but i also think. that you know. sayings you are what you eat you can eat. yourself into depression. you know and all of those things they. kind of become part of a. self-perpetuating cycle if i feel like. [ __ ] i. i don't move as much and then i'll make. bad decisions with food and then i feel. about god that's so sad that's so true. but it does because especially during. this time when people aren't as active.

as they were they're not engaging. socially. as they would have otherwise um you know. you the sales of alcohol went through. the roof alcohols are depressing the. more you drink the lower you are your. you you know all of these contributing. factors that can contribute to. negative mental health you know and can. negatively impact your mental. well-being um and a great prescription. sometimes. is is you know eating better going for a. walk. you know exercise doesn't have to be a. 45 minute hit class that leaves you.

wanting to not get out of bed for two. days because that's. you putting your body through another. stress on top of all the stress you're. already going through. um but just you know movement eating. well good conversation. um something i found quite difficult but. has become more apparent is my need to. move away from certain people because. they aren't moving in the same direction. as me. and they encourage certain things that. that hinder my growth. that's not me moving forward my life has. changed and i found that very hard and. you. you know we when you talk about grief.

you instantly think someone's died but. you can grieve parts of your life you. know parts of. saying goodbye to certain things certain. people in my life has felt. like the same loss as yeah you know when. i've actually. lost someone who's passed away but you. have to do those things in order. to grow and to get where you want to to. be. and it's it sounds selfish but selfish. has so many negative connotations. attached to it but. i think you know selfishness not at the. detriment of others and selflessness not.

the detriment of yourself. is good because how else do you like. you're no good to anyone if you're no. good to yourself. and that was a huge huge learning curve. for me and one that i found really. really. difficult to execute to start making. decisions based upon what was right for. me. because i felt obliged to to be here. for that person and then doing the same. things as those people. um and it wasn't help you know what i. mean and it wasn't helping me.

it took me back to this time i met this. monk world famous monk i said. is it bad that i'm focusing on building. my business. and making money um right now is that. like a selfish thing for me to be doing. when i could be off in africa helping. kids. and his response to me who's on stage he. goes he goes you have to fill up your. own bottle so you can pour it out for. other people. and i always remember him saying that. because it you know what the crazy thing. is when i was 18 i i wanted to. i was sat in my moth side in this room. and i was sat there thinking steve.

you're making a wrong life decision. because you know you've got a brain and. you know you can like affect. change and the fact that you're trying. to build this business and not. in africa saving even just one life. means that you're being terribly selfish. and my the way that i rationalized. myself out of that state of mind which. was like stopping what i'm doing and. flying to africa was. this belief that if i was to be. successful i would be able to help more. people one day. yeah and it's kind of links to what you. said there about like. selfishness in many cases is actually. selflessness. yeah yeah especially if you you find.

yourself in a position later on. where you can you know you can you can. affect change for the better on a much. grander. level you know you have a much bigger. stage now i like guys i love a lot of. the stuff that you say. most of the stuff that you say and i. generally don't like motivational. speakers but i find. when you speak it's motivational which. is quite different. yeah yeah yeah and it's weird because i. don't i. i really don't endeavor to be motivation. it's like most of the time.

i am in the gym and i write something in. the notes of my phone and it ends up on. the internet so it's like. yeah i'm not trying to be and also i'm. not like but that's why i'm works. but that's why it works and it's like. whenever i did my documentaries i i i. didn't try and tell anyone else's story. i was just catalyst for them too. it was your truth yeah and it's my. opinions which were formed during the. process of the. the filming i didn't go into it with and. if i went. in sorry if i went into them with any. idea it was often changed and my opinion. was shaped throughout the course of.

that documentary i think all too often. people think that by instructing people. or telling them how they should live. their lives they're gonna. impact change and i don't think that's. the best way to engage people i think. people switch off and i think the way in. which you communicate is brilliant. because. you put stuff out there and people can. take to it if if they connect with it. and i think because of that they do. because it's natural and it's organic. and it's not forced. and i think that's really really. important and i think. you know you talk about i don't think. you have to go to africa in order to.

impact change because people will be. inspired by watching what you do and are. able to achieve. and that in itself you almost don't have. to. you know you you can just do and you. will inspire yeah this is the crit this. is a crazy thing and you know. the thing we have in our society today. with young people especially is they all. want to change the world. and they think and genuinely i get this. all the time i'll be on stage somewhere. and a kid will come up to me that looks. like me a young black kid and he'll be. like. i want to be a motivational speaker how. do i do. and i i know what the right answer is.

because. i know i look at this kid or you know. whether it's one of my instagram dms. that wants to change the world because. they think i think the way i've. rationalized it is they want to change. they don't want to change the world. right. they want to be seen as someone that. changed the world because of the. admiration that they believe they'll get. from that because of the admiration that. they saw me getting. um so in fact they're they're not. connected to the right thing if you're. seeking validation exactly if they. wanted to change the world if that was. their objective they'd actually just be. in. a lab somewhere working on cancer for.

example yeah they wouldn't be. trying to get on the stage right but. like you. ending up on stage is a product of the. work you've done you never work to get. onto that i never. wanted never thought about it it was a. byproduct of. working on myself and that's exactly. yeah so thank you actually because i had. lost my train of thought there and you. just picked it back up. that was what i'm saying i got on stage. because i was focused on something else. right. and um the way that people go on to. change the world i think is. because they work on themselves they fix. themselves so that kid my advice.

probably to him probably would be like. go and like pursue your passions and in. fact all of my. um idols are on stage because they. didn't copy anybody else they thought. they could make you know. pocket computers and that black was. equal to white in terms of racial. relations martin luther king you know. they. and they they pursued their own thoughts. and their own feelings they they didn't. replicate. um people but then that's the we live in. an age where people. live almost comparatively.

you know it's such a shame we have this. incredible thing called the internet. where we can communicate with people in. any corner of the world give or take and. we use it to post facetune pictures. we don't know but you know it's a. there's there's there's a. brilliant tool there and and when. harnessed and used correctly it it can. bring about. good things um and it's like anything. you know like i was eating mcdonald's in. bed last night. i didn't see it on your instagram really. it is on my instagram i'm actually. complaining about the absence of fries.

in my large fridge. on my instagram story last night yep. last night i was like let's avoid the. fact that i'm eating mcdonald's in bed. and talk about where the rest of my. fries are i was devastated. why would a large fries if you're going. to get delivered. and then the next one's about gut health. balance bro. that's hilarious that's great balance is. really i think balance is key and i. think all too often. like especially with and and kind of. moving into this sector now anything. that. involves nutrition or or supplementing.

or. i [ __ ] hate hashtag wellness world. man like this. it just like that that kind of the. softness of that and the the. the approach to life that just having a. green juice is going to correct. everything it's going to save the world. it's going to save you. like [ __ ] do you know it's it's the. wrong. approach that everything and it i think. everything is too um. it becomes quite divisive you know i i. i believe in wellness therefore i'm not.

gonna indulge in any of the things which. i used to find. fun because now i'm going to take care. of myself. me taking care of myself involves me. having a blowout once in a while with my. friends. and suffering the hangover that comes. with it to remind myself why i don't do. it. all the time and the waste of time. afterwards because i can't function. as as as you know as highly as i would. normally you know. um but i just think there's there has to. be a balance struck. it's it's all too often people write if. you want to.

you know you can't don't just cut back. on me you have to be vegan. you know there's there's so much. instruction out there whereas. it's all contradictory as well so much. fun so much it is man. and it's like you know you've got vegans. who will you know i mean is is cocaine. vegan how many vegans. how many vegans that go out on a friday. or when we could go out on a friday. night and we'll do cocaine and you know. there's not a gram of cocaine if it. actually has cocaine in it it doesn't. have a dead body attached to it. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah where are your. you know what where's your. where is your morn campus now virtue.

signaling to. at its finest um you talked about your. documentary. then i one of the things that when i. watched your documentary. really stuck out to me was you recounted. the last conversation you had with your. dad. and um it stuck out to me because. i reflect on my own relationships with. my parents. and i was it made me think about the. last conversation i had with my parents. my parents are getting old especially my. dad. um can you talk a little bit about that. and your feelings towards that. conversation now.

yeah so my i'd opened i said i would. never. ever make myself vulnerable as far as my. my dad. again um and by that i mean i would. never give him the opportunity to let me. down. um and then i did uh. and it was just before christmas so we. spoke. and we agreed to meet up the day after. boxing day. um i was. sat at the food quarter the shopping. center in walthamstow.

uh my then partner at the time tia i can. remember it so vividly. um and i called him to make arrangements. for the next day. i wasn't driving he had moved to. brentwood um he was driving i said so. are you going to come and. see me tomorrow and he was like oh. mention the name of his uh wife. um now we don't and said oh you know. her and the kids would really love to. see you there are stepchildren there of. no relation to me. um and i was like this ain't about and.

this is the first time that i. ever i was always too scared to speak up. to him about how i felt because i. at times blamed myself or worried that i. was the reason that he would disappear. for a year and a half two years at a. time and not seen me. um so i would never speak up and tell. him how much it hurt every time he did. that. and this time i went this is not about. me coming to play happy families this is. about when i was 18. like this is about you and i sitting. down and having a conversation as adults. and trying to see if there's a way in. which we can move forward and forge some. sort of relationship.

with trust um and he was like oh. what actually you know what if you if i. ever see you again. i'm gonna knock you out um and i would. not have bought my eyes out and giving. him a hug. um but i was right to feel that anger. because he had hurt me so. so so much so many times throughout my. entire life. um and that's what i meant about being. cumulative you know it was that constant. it was him being in and out of my life. him being the parent that i. favored him being such a kind generous.

gorgeous man but being such a [ __ ]. father. you know that was cumulative it wasn't. any one moment. it was all of the moments that he wasn't. there that he missed that he let me down. all the days spent looking out in my. front room window which looked right at. the bus stop. that he should have got off of a bus at. um to come and see me when he never. showed up. you know it was all of that that added. up to that moment and. people are like wow do you wish you. could go back in time and change what. your last words to. him were no of course not because that.

angle was just. i know how could i not be that angry why. should i feel guilt over. his actions or lack of actions. you know i can own that and i'm fine. with it and i don't feel like i should. feel any which way about. saying that to him because i was me. being that angry was justified. i mean like if i don't think a lot of. people would have um. even been trying to rectify the. situation at that point right.

and a lot of my friends who won't even. entertain a conversation with their. with their biological fathers or mothers. because they were absent. mm-hmm i have the conversation though. get to a point where where. where where you can let go of and don't. but the. the problem is right they have a. narrative that they have to justify. themselves. and this is something that i've i've. learned so so they have a narrative that. and i still have this with members of my. family now. if we get into that conversation about. the past. they have a narrative which justifies.

their every choice. which makes it okay that they have to. have to live with because i haven't. dealt with this [ __ ] yet. they're not going to deal with their. [ __ ] you know if they were going to deal. with their [ __ ] they would have done it. the chances of me getting those people. into. you know through the door to see a. therapist. nil not happening um. me taking that step and sorting my [ __ ]. out doesn't mean that i can sort their. [ __ ] out. it doesn't mean that if i make the room. and give them the forgiveness that.

they're going to be able to accept that. forgiveness and be honest with me. because they still have to hold on to. that narrative. to justify their decisions because they. haven't made amends with their decisions. and i can't expect them to yeah they. don't. need that i can't and i can't but i. can't need that because if i need that. i'm always going to be. underwhelmed offended upset let down and. bitter. and i don't want to be any of those. things not least of all now i have a. child that i want. you know the great thing is my child is. born into a world where it's me and my.

partner. and she's amazing she's incredible and. has done. you know a lot of the same work that i. have in order to get to the place where. she's at in her life. and we have this peace because we're. able to have open conversations we're. able to discuss things rationally. we're able to be wrong there's room we. make room for each other to be wrong. you know we make room for each other to. be upset. no matter how irrational we give each. other room and space. and time and we're considerate and we're.

kind and. we don't you know we we try our best. not to to revert to a child and be. defensive. and offensive because of that um. and you know it is why we have had a. child because we feel safe with each. other. on that point of like moving on so. people in our lives we all have to. to move on from things whether it's a. relationship whether it's trauma whether. it's things that happen but you know. with our parents whatever. um people tend to think that you know.

they use this phrase a lot of my friends. were saying at the other day. i just need closure and i i just i. remember thinking oh. for your [ __ ] then if you yeah in fact. you are [ __ ] because what is closure. closure is. insecurity about what happened and a lot. of the time especially in romantic. situations yeah. basically someone has walked out the. door with your self-esteem and what. you're saying is. i can't move on until they come back and. give it to me yeah until they justify. why they cheated or they. explained to me you know because it's. all and they say i was just i think i.

wrote on my instagram i was like closure. closure is a choice ultimately closure. isn't you know if you need closure close. the door. yeah you do yeah find closures during. closing the door yeah it is because if. you're constantly. you're still giving over too much of. yourself to someone else. yeah they got keys right yeah like why. are you doing that why are you handing. over that power to someone who doesn't. even want it anymore they've left. yeah you know why are you but then it's. also you can people also find themselves. in this situation where they try and. take responsibility for other people's. actions. it's good to take responsibility for.

your actions. if you've provoked something then you. know you can look at maybe being. responsible. for how someone's reacted because you've. prompted that you've provoked that. but trying to take responsibility for. someone else's actions you'll drive. yourself crazy because you can't. take responsibility for everything that. everyone does we all make our own. choices. and that again is is not a good place to. find yourself. and always wanting to understand is like. why. why do we have to understand everything. people make choices we're complex there.

are so many. variables in our lives the only thing. you can do is introduce less variables. and that's been quite easy during the. last year because. you know i don't have to walk into. crowded rooms for the people that i. don't know. so when i have socialized when it's been. allowed it's been. amongst people that i want to see. therefore less variables. the situation is more predictable you. know i'm kind of. more aware of the outcome yeah and if. you you apply that to life you know you. if you.

we all too often know we we we make. excuses not just for. ourselves and i hate excuses um it's why. i don't like being late to anything. um even if there is a valid reason you. know. it makes me anxious i hate excuses but. we all too often make excuses for other. people. that's just darren you know that's just. how darren is. but there's gonna come a point where. darren just being darren is gonna. have you respond disproportionately. because you've not made clear with. darren that he's overstepping the line. so he's got no idea. and then he oversteps the line the.

eighth time and you respond but you. respond for all eight times at once and. darren's. yeah whoa whoa you could have told me. the first time yeah you know and we. could have had a rational conversation. but actually you've allowed it to. escalate to a point where you've. you know held on to this thing that. darren's done every time he's done it. and then. exploded because you're not comfortable. having awkward conversations. because you find them awkward when. actually if someone can't handle a. direct and honest conversation in a. rational conversation. is that someone that encourages you to.

be your best self like i don't want to. surround myself with. yay sayers or people who deflect or who. hide from things. i in my life now cannot i don't have the. time for the [ __ ]. i really don't it i like direct. conversations i like friendships where. we are able to be honest. where if my friend you know i don't have. a huge group of friends now i know a. [ __ ] ton of people. but the people that i do like if i if. someone online calls me a [ __ ]. from i don't know greg from skegness i.

don't give a [ __ ] he doesn't know me his. opinion of me is made up of. whatever he's read or seen and the dots. that he's joined he's built the resident. [ __ ]. he's yeah in his own [ __ ] that he's. projecting right but. if my best friend felix says stephen. you need to check yourself i'm going to. check myself. you know and it's important to have. those people around you you need to be. able to if you don't have honest. relationships with people and open. dialogue they're not real relationships. it's hard though when you've had some.

success right. did you even find that in your own. friendship circle i think i found that a. little bit where because i. i had success and some of my closest. friends actually ended up. they worked at my company and that's how. they became some of my best friends. yeah so i didn't know them before the. company but like what you work with. someone side by side for 10. years and they inevitably yeah yeah and. but i was always the boss so i've always. i've always worried. that because i had that like i was like. the pack leader in my little group of. friends.

that they might not check me all the. time when i needed to be checked. right so it's just because they feel. like you know best they know i know best. and because i've always been like the. boss i've always been yeah like i've. always been all in charge i've always. been on leading them as well so it's. like. so for for me stepping into business now. is really important for me to have. um co-workers that will challenge me i. don't want someone that just goes okay. that's not working we'll stop that i. want someone to go yes. that's not that is underperforming at. the moment but given a chance. in two months you're going to see. results from that because you're going.

to build and grow your audience. i need educating on that because that's. not my that's not my forte you know. that's not my skill set. um and so you need co-workers and. friends that will challenge you. you know and i believe in challenge. healthy challenge because an opinion is. not an opinion it's an idea until it's. challenged. you know so if i say you know i believe. we should go this way and you say do you. really. and then i explain why i've stood on the. table for it so now it's my opinion and. i know it's my opinion but up until that. point it was just an idea.

it was a belief but not necessarily a. correct one and when you started to see. success in your life were there people. in your circle that were. friends people you considered to be. friends that were. clearly not happy for you one of the. best bits of. advice i was ever given was by um a. rapper but he was a friend of mine. skinny man who said to me a real friend. of yours will never be of hindrance to. you and there were definitely people who. weren't as comfortable with me not being. in the same situation that they were in. doing the same things. a lot of people deal with this i got a.

call yesterday from one of my best. friends and he said one of my friends is. just complete just unfollowed me on. all the social platforms and i said why. is that because well i think it's. because like i've started to do really. well and he. it's a reflection he thinks it's a. reflection on him he thinks it means. he's a piece of [ __ ] because. i'm succeeding or an attack on yeah this. is just and i i this is a conversation i. don't people don't have enough but at. any point in your life when you. when you divert from the like the path. especially the path that you share with. your closest friends. quite often there will be some kind of.

force. from them to try and pull you back to. them yep and say who the [ __ ] do you. think you are stephen. yeah get back in line yeah and have you. did you experience that at any point. where especially when your music career. started to really take off and. it's difficult because you can't take. everyone everywhere. um and there's almost an expectation to. and. i i'm a firm believer in in. opportunity like giving people. opportunities and then. beyond that it's up to them what they do. with that. like i i'm someone who's not i've had.

situations with people where i've seen. them have opportunities but they've been. too. insecure to take them because they felt. like they're putting themselves beneath. someone else i don't have that problem. i want to learn from you if you're. further along in your career and i'm. trying to. not mimic what you're doing but i want. to be successful. in the set so you're a musician that's. ahead of me. and you're willing to take me on tour. with you yeah i'm not going to say no to. that because i'm. insecure and i don't want to appear to i.

don't want to be the support act i'm. going to say yes because i want to come. along on that ride. and i'm grateful for the opportunity. that you're giving me some people don't. have that mindset. some people don't want to learn from. other people they think they know it all. or. they're they're ultimately scared and. insecure they they feel like they look. smaller. by putting themselves as a support or by. having someone feature on a song or by. accepting help. whereas for me it's always been a you. know like when mike's gonna sign me and. i had the opportunity to go on tour with. him and battle at every stop of his. 12 rounds tour when he was at the height.

of his success. you know i didn't feel any which way. about doing that i. i was you know i was really really. grateful for the opportunity to go along. and learn in the same way that when lily. said to me oh let me do the chorus on. on just be good to green and we can. perform it live at best of all. in front of 60 000 people bro i was. still selling cocaine. and you know i'd graduated from weed to. coat at that point because i had all of. a sudden after i signed to my skin as.

record label. developed this circle of you know model. bookers and. musicians and you know who all took it. and. weed is large and smells a lot coke is. quite easy to move around. and you know i would never have got. caught unless in transit so it became. quite an obvious. decision for me to make because those. things were normalized where i grew up. anyway. i never sold crack or smack because i. don't believe in dealing with people in. the most desperate situations they've. ever been in day in day out. some good news my debut book happy sexy.

millionaires just become a sunday times. best seller. um but that's not what i want to talk. about um i just wanted to give. credit where credit is due to fiverr. because all of the assets that i've used. to promote the book like the graphics. the cover photos. assets on instagram some of my stories. have been designed. using freelancers on fiverr.com that's. f i v e r r.com. it's the most cost-effective way that. i've ever found of. flexibly expanding the capacity of my.

team. and the quality of freelancers on fiverr. is staggering one of the things i don't. think people appreciate enough. is you can actually also extend the time. zone of your team. by working with freelancers on different. time zones that work while you're asleep. not only is your capacity being extended. but the hours that you're productive as. a team in the day can be extended and if. you've never heard of fiverr or you've. never used it for a project there's a. link in the description below. click on it check it out if you've got. any projects coming up whether it's. podcasting or content or websites or. branding or a voiceover anything.

fiverr is your answer when you think of. shoreditch what do you think. um people pissing at people's doorsteps. interesting. that's my home i was i was i was. i was wondering if the just the time. shortage alone would um. would make you think about the sky you. have ah. it's weird man there's there's like i. got hit by a car.

in 2013 um yeah it was well i got. squashed between two cars i managed to. get myself up on the bonnet so it was. only my left leg that got caught. the bloke didn't realize his car was in. eco because it was a new car. so it had his foot on the brake which. put the car in eco he took his foot off. the brake as i was walking between two. cars. and he felt the engine start so he. panicked and slammed his foot down but. instead of hitting the brake he hit the. accelerator. um and that was a far more traumatic. event for me. um than being stabbed because that was.

really unpredictable nothing came before. that that i contributed to. um when i got stabbed look when i think. i was eight. when chesty someone from my flats who. he don't live in the country anymore um. he got bottled and stabbed and one of my. powers jamal who's younger than me ran. and i might have been nine because i. think james was like seven and he ran. and. called the ambulance for chesty like. this stuff happened you know. um i didn't expect to get that by.

someone i didn't know. that i had no history with it it was it. didn't really feel that retribution for. what had just happened. there was a little bit of bickering he. said i bashed his mate it was proper. stupid young bravado. [ __ ] yeah in cargo um and. i just did my ground really was all i. did that was what i did wrong in that. situation if you even think that's me. doing wrong. um in hindsight i could have just gone i. did i didn't barge's mate i said excuse. me and i moved past with an. open hand in a crowded club i was as.

polite and as passive as i could have. been and always have been. drunk but he was just on one you get me. so um. but then i did i stood my ground and in. hindsight like now at the age i am and. especially with. you know having a child and just. thinking about how i want him to grow up. and what i want him to understand. being a man to be um you know i could. have just gone. you know what sorry brav i've been done. with it. um but i felt like he was threatening me. and i felt like i was right to stand my.

ground i didn't expect that five minutes. after that he'd walk up behind me and. put a broken bottle in my neck. um but at least my my mum and my nan. started talking again. i heard you called your you called your. nan yeah in that moment. yeah so we we were still fighting. outside so he stabbed me i managed to. push him out of the way got a club. holding my neck together obviously. you've got all kinds of. adrenaline running through your body at. that point so you're not really aware of. the. i mean i know i've been poked in the. neck and it's not really.

if you're going to get poked you don't. want it to be in your neck. it doesn't you know your chance of. survival is not high. um and then we got the fight got broken. up i think there was police outside the. club i think it was broken up by a plea. the whole thing is a bit blurry to me. and then i was sat on there because i. ended up getting arrested as well um but. i'm sat on the curb my phone's come out. my pocket. um and i can see on everyone's faces. you know this is not this ain't going. well for me. so i asked to pass my phone got my phone. i called my nan and i just apologized.

for all the work she had put into me. that this was how it was gonna end um. she just said you're going to be fine. shut up i think she did actually tell me. to shut up. and she's cockney yeah and she just said. you're going to be fine you're going to. be fine. um and she came to the hospital. as did my mom and they both started. talking over my table. that i was on um and it's kind of weird. because when i went to hospital i was. treated like i was some kind of. notorious gang member.

that the hospital staff are not. sympathetic to my situation whatsoever. bearing in mind i've been stabbed i. never say i'm a victim because i don't. believe in. approaching life as one um but in that. situation. i i wasn't there the what's the word. perpetrator i wasn't the aggressor. um so it was a bit weird the whole thing. you know to just be. it be presumed that i was just part of. something that came out of nowhere. had nothing to do with no gang nothing. no dealing nothing no.

no historic problems from anywhere it. was just something that happened. randomly but no that's not even what i. associate shortage with. um as well as pissing up doorsteps i. think of new balance trainers and. beards yeah yeah do you know when i. listened to that story about what. happened. with uh that guy in the club it brought. me back to a time which i've never. talked about before in my own life where. i was in new york in a club. and there was two tables in this. nightclub and i was on one of them with. a couple of my friends. one of the guys that runs mattress. boxing and there was this table of guys.

from jersey next to us. and the guys on my table were talking to. the girls on their table. oh yeah and they they became this. location so i. i know the bouncers in this club because. i get all the time so i said to the. owner and the bouncer i was like there's. going to be a problem here if you don't. move this table and as i'm speaking to. the manager. the guy from the table next to me picks. up a. three liter bottle of vodka and hits me. on the head with it. i am surrounded by so i'm so good with. these bouncers like i've sent the man.

united shirts and. i'm like these people know me i'm always. in the club i'm always on the same table. that kind of thing. big bouncer must be [ __ ] seven foot. massive black guy they're my boys we. talk about united every time i come in. there like i'm always. he reaches over the crowd of bouncers. that i'm chatting to just on my table. and he hits me with this bottle of vodka. and i go see. because i was telling them to i was like. there's gonna be if you don't move these. two tables let's get. i go see and as i'm looking blood. because i'm wearing this cat blood just. comes trickling down my face. but again i did nothing to instigate.

this this situation and i when i was. reading about what happened to you. and you ended up in hospital and you. know it risked your life. i was thinking what's the lesson here. how do you avoid these situations where. it's variables yeah you know and that's. the thing you. walk into a room like that and there. there are many variables. there's any anything can happen you know. you know and for me i was always like i. was always someone that scanned the room. i always wanted to know i don't like. sitting with my back to doors. never have um i i still have sleep but. when i open is why i've always suffered.

with sleep problems i think because of. and that's my own doing to an extent you. know because of some of the stuff that i. used to do and i was by no means like. heavy heavy heavy into things i just. sold a bit of this in a bit of that. because. it enabled me to finance life while i. work towards what i wanted to do if. there was another commodity that i was. aware of that i could have sold that. wasn't. illegal i would have done it um and that. guy he got eight years right. yeah that was a whole bad situation. though because.

they moved the trial date when. i was on tour so this was two years. later that it went to court right. um i get a phone call on the friday when. i'm in newcastle. and they tell me when. from a police officer and they told me. when the trial date is and i just said. you know what i'm so. far past that you know i really. don't care like i'm not coming to court. and they said well.

we know where you are we know what your. next two tour dates are they were. brighter than london. i think um and we'll issue a summons. we'll arrest you if you don't come to. court yeah. um and i cried bro i was in a conundrum. because. um see this is where. i've never spoken about this this is. where like. my moral compass struggled because you. don't snitch.

yeah they had four other witnesses their. dna they had cctv the last thing they. needed in court was me but what did they. get from me being there. they get press um and then i get told by. my record label my tv plug on my radio. plugger that i'll basically be looked at. as an advocate for knife crime. if i don't show up at court but that. goes against everything that i stand for. um in hindsight it's crazy because if i. didn't grow up where i grew up. why would i care about that i didn't do. anything wrong in that situation.

but i didn't want to be there i didn't. want to be there. um the whole thing like it. it still troubles me now you know. because. it's like you can't have one foot in one. for art it's like who are you and what. do you stand for. bro i've been arrested before i was. looking at time when i was just before i. started to my skin as record label. and at that point there were other. people involved if i was a snitch i. would. open my mouth then but i found myself in. an impossible situation i'm like i.

nearly lost my life. and now i'm being told that i'm gonna. lose everything that i've worked for. if i don't go to court when i got. stabbed. but then it's gonna and listen i've not. lost a friend over it. you know there are people i don't know. that have made comments. um never when i've seen them everyone's. all cool bro. um but it it's weird you know it's still. even to this day it doesn't sit well. with me. i haven't so for all the work that i. have done and all the distance between.

me and certain things that that i still. wrestle with. because i was leveraged and it's kind of. mad to think that. you know in that situation they would. have and i mean you only had. it was crazy they wouldn't even so even. to just move the trial date to or you. know for the trial to just. happen during my first headline tour so. i would have missed two gigs as well for. which there was no insurance. and at that point and you won't like to. hear this as good a as good a business.

as you are i was actually in two record. deals and it was costing me about 10p to. earn a pound. um so it wasn't like i was you know i. wasn't in a situation where i could. i could weather that storm and this. these weren't times where. where you know that sort of publicity. was good publicity it. there were no rappers on the radio by. like me tiny. chip and and tinchy it weren't you know. it wasn't a given that you could be a. successful artist we were really just. opening them doors.

so any negative attention was not not. just hurting me but about shutting doors. for other people as well. but here we are you know i had to go to. court and it's not you know i never. imagined testifying to be something that. i would ever do. but in that situation you know i kind of. used to see that as a black and white. thing but. i guess there's some shades of gray in. between. someone stabs me in the neck on that. caught 10 minutes early. and that's how i should feel you know it.

just. but then i also think about all the. other [ __ ] that i've had with the police. and. all the stuff that i've you know that. friends have gone through and look. some if you bring it on yourself and you. put yourself in a situation and you've. got police who abide by the laws that. they enforce all well and good that's. what they believe. you know but there's a lot of police. that that don't. um and i've had you know further. troubles i got nicked in 2013 and was. rebuild and rebuild. lied to in part disclosure lost over a.

million pound in endorsements because of. one. being a you know he had a being his. bonnet um. and i was arrested for something i was. never charged for but that never made. the papers everything else did. um so i don't really understand i'm not. saying all police are like that please. have a purpose but when. it's when they take it it's when you. know they start to act out personal. grudges that. you kind of question and the police. please the police right yeah that's the. problem that we have. um but i don't wanna i don't wanna i.

don't know don't wanna be better. yeah i remember listening to your music. when i was in. when i was in secondary school a lot and. i remember listening to a lot of your. records more recently as well and. even you know like as as when i know you. were coming in today i started like. going back through my back catalogue of. your music. um at the time when you made it. as you said then in the uk in the uk. hip-hop scene as a white male. that's a [ __ ] staggering. accomplishment like do you know.

genuinely it is. i'm like i know a lot because you might. not know this but you're from the jump. off days. yup and i'm all the don't flop boys. they're all best friend friends of mine. like i don't think. you know unanimous i don't know if you. know who you know. they used to come to my house sometimes. for five days in a row and like stay at. my house and they'd rap and stuff. i used to write music back in those days. as well but watching how. talented a lot of these people are at. what they do.

and still a lot of them haven't made it. like you did. yeah makes me beg the question it's like. what were the factors that came to play. to make sure that you. as a white rapper in the uk scene. got through um did you know what just. persistence. really persistence persistence i just. didn't stop you know there were so many. full starts as well certainly to mike. skinner's record label. me and him me being lazy. not working as hard as i should have. when um during the period when i signed. to his label. um and i can put my hands up and say.

that but us also biting heads and not. agreeing on music. up until a point and then just as we did. and he sent a really kind email and he. was like look i've been spending too. long trying to make you into something. that you're not rather than focusing on. what you're good at. just go um and it was almost at that. point when warner pulled a financing. from his label they were. subsidizing his label they moved. everything in-house apart from all of. this the rest. uh sorry i think it was six seven nine. uh was the label they kept and they. moved that in-house and then they they. pulled the finance in from the rest of.

their subsidiaries because of napster. and limewire you know that the money. they were seeing had had fallen. subsequently because of all the piracy. um so the album never came out for two. reasons because the. label lost their financing because i. never worked hard enough. um and then after that i went back to. what i knew. um and what facilitated me being able to. continue. my my quest to become a successful. musician which by the way i thought. would absolve me of everything in my.

past. yeah and just make me happy what did you. find out uh i was bullshitting it. what stupid [ __ ] idea that was um so. you thought that becoming a successful. musician would make your part. would put your pass at ease basically. yeah just you just you. and this is what's dangerous about. pinning um your happiness or your. your hopes of happiness on an ever. moving goal post that quite often you. move yourself. if i sell this many records i'm going to. be happy and then you sell that many. records and then it's like okay if i get.

a number one single i'm going to be. happy then you get the number one single. and then it's like well what's next. you talked about this earlier you said. about how you've got to enjoy the moment. more. yeah or else you'll never enjoy like. yeah yeah how do you do that though. in the moment um in the moment i don't. like so for me i'm just. it's just it's been a really really long. journey towards not. you know going back to the corners you. can't see around this it's just taking. it for what it is it's like i'm here and. i'm. i'm entirely present my head is not. worrying about the meeting that i've got. to go to afterwards.

i'm aware of it because i've seen my. schedule but i'm not. thinking about it and i used to like i. would lay in bed and my mind would be. spinning. spinning spinning about everything that. i had coming up. there's no like it's good to plan like. and i find you worry more if you don't. plan. but i try and look at you know i don't. look at my calendar too far ahead. anymore because it doesn't help me. you know i i want to be present i want. to be able to be here and have a. conversation with you to look you in the. eye and talk to you without having. another [ __ ] in my.

head you know an empty head and an open. heart man that's. that's that's how you're present and. they're not the easiest things to. achieve when we all have so much going. on in our lives. and when we're always so like ambitious. because when like as you say the moving. goal post analogy i really like because. i will achieve something today but. before the day of. even achieving it i've already set the. new goal do you know what i mean and so. you never experienced the achievement. and i've i've actually since leaving my. business one of my mentors said to me is. like you just need to. he's that old and he's done it all and. he's way more successful than i'll. probably ever be.

and he was like the one advice i'll give. you steve is just like. try your very best to enjoy it in the. moment yeah because you look back on it. with you know rose tinted glasses and. you. you know you wish you would just. savoured it more yeah but you can enjoy. it in hindsight and it is what i was. saying earlier you look back on it and. you go wow i did that. but actually it's the the accolades are. not that important. the the rewards are are there they're. part of it if you're lucky enough to. achieve. but the process is the part of it that. you have to enjoy. and that's the i think that's the.

struggle that's why a lot of people. don't necessarily find themselves that. happy because they're not in. situations where they're happy to be. doing the work that they're doing to get. to where they want to be and that's. perhaps because they're in the wrong. place. where they want to be and what they're. doing to get there don't you know they. don't marry up. and we're fortunate we do things we love. we get to pick and choose. that's that's uh you know i was going to. say that's lucky but. it's it's not it's hard work and. perseverance.

what do you worry about then these days. um. i mean most recently in the last two. weeks it's been like is that. noise that my son's making in his sleep. normally. so for context uh steven's just had a. new kid yeah. um a new baby boy yeah which is amazing. my first child. um and really you know. just i mean yeah just the thing the. things that i encounter day to day. i i'm not really too i don't know man.

like it's weird to be. at this point in my life in my career. about to sign a new record deal to me. putting music out again but to not have. that. like my energy is different i'm just. excited in being able to have a route to. market i've had all this music that. because of. some stupid problems i had with uh the. label i was with. that i couldn't put out i wasn't able to. to. to exercise that part of. you know what i did and that i missed.

terribly because that's my output. that's my creative output you know i. enjoy working on. all the other things i'm doing whether. it's a gulp or gizmo. anything all the ideas that i have that. i you know will hopefully come into. fruition later on that i'm chipping away. at behind the scenes. but music is my output that's my hobby. it always has been so when i get. suppressed and i'm not able to. to to work on music or or release music. and they. kind of go hand in hand because it's. kind of weird working on music that you.

know you can't release. or that you know someone is standing in. the way of you that you don't feel as. motivated to get in the studio. and work whereas now i'm like i know but. i'm not worried about how it's received. i'm just really happy to be able to put. music out my worries. are not not what they were all the. things i used to worry about. i you know i mean i i don't have. financial security yet. and i'm in a much better place than than. i could have been growing up where i. grew up it wasn't what was expected. um but you know i have to pay my.

mortgage i have things like that but. there's. you know they're not worries i have to. work to pay you know that's again you. know work can be a stress or it can just. be work. you know my mortgage can be a stressor. it can just be a mortgage. i just have to work there there's quite. simple things that i have to do in order. to pay my mortgage you know so i try and. not get bogged down by. by the everyday [ __ ] my worries are. uh just whatever pops up and and are. they worries. you know am i getting to to know a child. like am i holding my child correctly. things like that that they're they're my.

current. sounds and your new record deal um i i'm. super. intrigued to hear how different your. music will be. now that you've you're in a new phase of. life right yeah and surely that will be. reflected in what you produce. yeah i think there's uh you know we've. spoken about grief. and loss and letting go of things. throughout this whole conversation and i. think. there's part of professor green that. he's still there that still wants to be. a lippy little [ __ ]. that still wants to poke and prod and.

i don't know in the age of cancer. culture i probably need to watch my. mouth but it's not something i've ever. been good at. but then there's also the more mature. side then i think there there will be. a point between now and perhaps an album. that i have in mind that i've started. working on. that there's a bit in between where i. need to just get a little bit of that. angst out. and i think there is a transition to. take place that will happen throughout. the music. because things are different and when. can we expect to hear this music.

um i'm having something out this summer. whether i can tour it or not due to. carving who knows. but amazing how do you feel about that. must be. must be all kinds of feelings bro just. happiness. yeah yeah proper because i've been. sitting on this music for ages and then. having the conversations with the label. that i may sign to. they hear the music and they pull out. the songs which i would have hoped they. do. you know and they're not necessarily the. most obvious and it's kind of cool to. have that. or the beginnings of that working. relationship um.

and it it makes me excited about the. music that i've been making and i've. been sitting on which sometimes you know. these songs are not new to me but they. will be to everyone else. so to have someone kind of re-light that. fire it's amazing yeah. and a gulp a gulp so i'm gonna try this. now explain to me what it is while i try. it. okay so i have a whole lifetime. of gut issues um most recently in 2017. i had an operation to repair a hiatus. hernia oh.

sorry i should have done this a bit more. and when i came out of hospital after. the the operation went well. there's the gulp yep. yummy when i come out the opera i come. out of uh surgery and the surgery had. went well but i had terrible. complications. i had distension alias um. collapsed lung pneumonia crp which is an. information marker of 672 which is. i understand the looks on the surgeon's.

faces. um and i nearly cropped it and then i. the the alternative. the op sorry the options that i had were. more surgery or. leave hospital with a paralyzed stomach. and just hope it got better over time. and so i didn't want to chance more. surgery because i was more likely to. have the same complications again. so i started looking at ways i could. treat myself more holistically. um and this was an education for me i. found myself down at every rabbit hole. you know i've been down every rabbit. hole you could ever imagine and then. and continuously still researching.

actually what i found out is the more. consistent i was with looking after my. gut by the. mcdonald's um is that the the better my. mood was the more consistent my mood was. the better i. slept the better i felt the more. consistent my energy was. and it's just it's unbelievable how. how much your gut health contributes to. every other pillar. of of your well-being and how much your. gut health is also impacted by them so. your sleep impacts your gut your gut. impacts your sleep. it's it's all interconnected so what.

exactly. so i've just i've just had one of these. um sachets that i've got here in front. of me yeah i go up and. what is this going to do for me in like. dumbass terms in dumbass terms so that's. feeding your gut. um bacteria what it needs to thrive and. it's also packed with vitamins that. support. your healthy gut lining sure you know. which help prevent or repair a permeable. gut. and how often do i take one of these. every day every day everyone a day yup. okay a lot of people have got issues and.

they don't understand. why i'm one of them i've probably in the. last increasingly over the last five six. seven years i've got. this sort of clear intolerance to. something it's definitely like i can't. eat bread pasta without feeling it for. like. two three days um and i and it's weird. because i just kind of trundle through. life. feeling like [ __ ] sometimes and not. really doing anything about it or. getting tested or. yeah that's the thing with like i think. especially with gut health and there's. there's just health problems in general.

like a lot of people go through life. just feeling run. down because it's because we're not edgy. yeah and it's. it's just accepted and i think that's. that's a real problem and i think. there's a lack of education and that's a. really. important part of a gulp you know it's. not just us trying to sell these sachets. it's the educational piece which is. really important because people should. understand. what they what they can do in order to. thrive it. you know you can live and be alive or or. you know you can. you can optimize parts of your health. and well-being so you don't have to have.

that trip to the doctors rather than. i'm i'm all for proactivity whether it's. your mental health or your physical. health you said to me before we started. recording that you um. you spent your whole career like being. the product yeah and now you're. you're the guy in the boardroom yeah the. proverbial boardroom. on the other end of zoom um what's that. change been like now you're an. entrepreneur running a business. um dealing with all of that [ __ ]. i'm so happy you said it no i mean it is. [ __ ] right there's like copious. amounts of [ __ ] when you're running.

a company. um how have you found that process. business for me. i think things are all too often over. complicated. um and i there will always be problems. but it's like solutions i like solutions. for me it's. it's been a pretty steep learning curve. but i enjoy learning i'm happiest when. i'm learning. and i'm learning an awful lot um and. it's. it's quite nice being in the engine room. um. it's nice to have ownership you know. that's something that i haven't really. had as an eyes.

what parts do you hate what parts do i. hate i see i like problem solving but. sometimes when problems present i don't. like being presented with problems when. there's. not even an idea of a solution sure and. i think there's if you take half an hour. between making between finding out the. problem and making me aware of the. problem you can probably have thought of. something that can contribute to the. solving of that problem. um and the immediacy the panic. i don't like panic i don't want a power. you know i don't want the culture in our. firm to be one of. panic you know i want people to take.

ownership i think ownership's important. i think. accountability is important um and not. to be punished. just so as you can own it put your hand. up grab [ __ ] it but i fixed it and. take some [ __ ] pride in that. and there's a certain type there's. several types of people i'm sure you'll. encounter in your business where you've. got one type of person who i usually say. from a business partner. they will like solve the problem and. handle it. before they even come to me and they'll. just come to me and say steve by the way. this has happened but don't worry. i'm on it fix it don't worry i love that. type of person i'm like promotion.

promotion promotion. and then this other type of person. who'll be like steve the office is on. fire the office is on fire i'm all gonna. die. and they're just screaming in my face. like the office is on fire and you're. gonna die and i'm gonna die and it's all. over. we're finished we're [ __ ] we're [ __ ]. yep and that person can never be a. manager. because if they can't manage themselves. they can't manage anyone else here and. i and this is a hiring thing because. i've seen both in my business. and i will always promote the people who. caught they grab hold of problems. extinguish them.

before i even realized it was a problem. amazing amazing individuals. but then you wanted to have i think. there's a third person as well and. and and that's where apathy comes into. it and it's like they're um the room's. on fire and i'm watching it burn but i. don't really feel any need to leave or. to tell you. yeah we can just die here but you know. we won't even worry about putting the. fire out. yeah yeah yeah that's the problem even. worse. i prefer the panic over the absolutely. it's like he's like do be panicked.

yeah and please try and find the. solution before you know. not that i want to wash my hands of all. of it i want to work i want to. understand. that's one thing i've always been as. meticulous with anything that i've done. outside of music as i am with every word. that i write i think you know. i i saw a post that you put up about the. details. yeah and i i agree and you know this. whole the devil's in the details and. people get really annoyed with me. or can get annoyed with me throughout my. life in every aspect of it being really.

obsessive. over the manuscript but that's that's. [ __ ] important. those little things i agree. wholeheartedly. you know again cumulative all of those. little things add up to make that one. big yeah. and for me especially in brand comms. like i want it to be communicated in a. certain way because and our. communication has been my thing i talk. through my music and i want to talk. through my product in the same way. yeah i i was just very detail-orientated. my whole life but i think the problem i. had is i never really explained to the.

people that i was talking to why i cared. so much about details. so i'd say look that's not right well. that little thing there is that. symmetrical and i the amount of times. that i've got a ruler out in social. chain. my company and i'd measure something to. check the millimeters on both sides of. it. and those little things i think people. think you're being anal or whatever but. it's. it's a philosophy yeah that if you have. within yourself about. high standards being obsessant about. detail as i said in my post yesterday. it's those that those small details. culminate to great things right so. i'm just like these days i don't give a.

[ __ ] like i. i'm i want to be detail-oriented i want. people to feel that i'm so. detail-oriented. that they won't show me something until. they've been equally detailed and. orientated yeah and that's. kind of a culture and a philosophy of. weakness. is the right type of culture it's caring. yeah you know we're a very small team. you know we've we've been hitting some. pretty punchy targets month and months. since we launched in october. yeah ahead of our first race oh wow um. yeah yeah big balls either that or i'm a.

[ __ ] idiot. um i did wonder but it's that that's the. culture that i want to promote and. it's like you have to i like what you. said because i think it's important you. can't just keep pointing out what's. wrong you have to explain why it's. important that it's right. you know not just saying that's wrong. fix it i think it's important that if. you know how to fix it you explain how. to fix it but also why it needs fixing. you know people should be learning on. the job all the time so as they can grow. into roles that they may never have been. employed for um you know i've grown into.

a position. i don't think i was i was you know ever. you know as a child probably looked at. being. destined to be you know not from where i. was from. um and i'm continuously growing into. that role. because i want to learn and i have to i. have to keep learning otherwise i don't. see the point in continuing that to me. is like. you know people talk about about death. death to me is. is is losing that that i don't know just. just. not being curious not wanting to learn.

not wanting to understand. yeah i see that's something i've come to. learn as well you know you talked about. the goal post moving and that and the. importance of curiosity it's one of the. things i talk about in my book is like. i came to realize at some point that my. life the purpose of my life was probably. just to keep myself in like forward. motion. of like chaos that's the way i describe. it it's like i used to think stability. was chaos and careful stability now i. know that my stability is actually being. in chaos which is. exactly what you said there like being. curious being challenged.

um until i die someday and like which. happens to all of us yeah. yeah some some sooner than others if. they. they don't get to ever really live look. after their gut health. yeah there you go well listen steven. thank you so much for coming here today. you know your story. is remarkable because um you're someone. that is like unashamed. unashamedly honest about everything and. that. transparency and honesty has helped. [ __ ] i can't even imagine the amount. of people it's helped even the the. rawness and the openness of you doing.

that documentary. i mean you see it on the documentary you. see how. being open and honest and expressing. yourself can. save people and i know you're i know. you're [ __ ] i think of all the guests. i've sat here with i think if there was. one guest who i think has probably. saved more people from themselves from. their thoughts it's got to be you so. it's a great tremendous uh service. you've done to. get rid of when people say kind of no. but it is like getting my belly button. right now. but i was watching it and i was thinking. you know this is exactly what the world.

needs especially at the time when it. came out and uh. in terms of people that have the. experience to to say these things you. know you're. a rapper you know i mean do you know. what i mean it's it's. rapper documentary exactly. at that point like the perception of you. when you made that documentary was like. this is a tough guy rapper that comes. from. you know the ends or whatever and for. you to be talking about those things in. the same way that rio ferdinand. crying and crying right having the. having the. the i'd call it courage but you know. it's a strange word to use but having.

the courage to be that vulnerable i. think is just such a tremendous service. you've done so. thank you because you know i just think. it's like the most important thing. is you've been part of a change uh. you've been part of this change over the. last couple of years in mental health. and men. specifically talking about how they feel. and that is [ __ ] how that is a. moment i think we'll look back on in. history and say. like thank god we realized that you know. i hope so. i think we need to really encourage. people to to stop applying behaviors to. genders you know i shouldn't have to be.

called a girl for being sensitive why. should only women be afforded the right. to be. emotional or emotional beyond anger yeah. thank you brother i appreciate you thank. you good pleasure thanks. [Music]. um. [Music].

you.