Piers Morgan: Dealing With Repeat Failure, Death Threats & Regrets | E137

could you do me a quick favor if you're. listening to this please hit the follow. or subscribe button it helps more than. you know and we invite subscribers in. every month to watch the show in person. opinions to me are the spice of life if. you don't have an opinion there's. something wrong with you i'm peters. morgan uncensored show some damn respect. why do you want to deport me am i. allowed to respond yet i'm a news junkie. and it started when i was six or seven i. mean as i got through my teens i became. very opinionated i read a report last. year said 33 million people in britain. are mentally ill no they're not it's. crap we're spending too much time.

encouraging a kind of wallowing in. self-pity people will misunderstand the. use of the word but hang on hang up the. risk i see is being the judge of whether. someone's feelings are worthy of the. emotion. i'm done with this i left on a point of. principle and the principle was i'm. entitled to my opinion why should my. sons be exposed to death threats simply. for being my children cancer culture is. a virus as deadly over time as a. coronavirus the public wants someone to. cancel cancel culture i want to.

stimulate debate and to get to some kind. of truth have you ever regretted. anything you've said. so without further ado. i'm stephen bartlett and this is the. diary of a ceo usa edition i hope. nobody's listening but if you are. then please keep this to yourself. [Music]. this stephen this is quite quite. interesting you're usually on the uh. i already feel uncomfortable right.

i watch your stuff you're forensic you. know you go deep and i'm like i don't. know i don't really know why i'm doing. it other than at least one of my sons is. a massive fan of yours and said daddy. you've got to do this podcast everyone. listens to this podcast so whatever. you're doing. it's working so i'm here you make great. kids well thank you for being here um. the the thing i was thinking thinking. where do i start with this conversation. and honestly the the the center point of. my curiosity is how you came to be the. person you are today and i look through.

your story especially your early years. the loss of your father. certain experiences you've had when. you're younger you're a self-aware guy. you're an honest man. what are the factors. at that pre-teen age that went into. making pierce morgan the man that we all. know is this media anomaly i'm a junkie. i'm a news junkie. and it started when i was six or seven. which is just weird i've had four kids. myself the idea of being six or seven. and being addicted to what's happening. in the world to news to newspapers i.

used to sit and read the daily mail my. parents used to get the mail i used to. read it from cover to cover when i was. six or seven so from a very early age i. had that kind of. fascination and curiosity with what was. happening and i wanted to know what was. happening and what to think about it i. mean as i got through my teens i became. very opinionated you know to regularly. get thrown at my local pub on a saturday. night for getting drunk and disorderly. disorderly they meant just to opinion. they'd been too loud so i'd argue with. people and then it would get out of hand. and i'd be thrown out i always got. myself back in why why would you argue.

with people uh because i used to feel. strongly about stuff you know people see. me hyperventilating about vegan sausage. rolls i think how can any sensible human. being in the world get so enraged by a. vegan sausage roll i don't know except. that when i was young i used to get. enraged by all sorts of things now not. to the point where i'd hit people. or you know. manifest itself in any sort of violence. but i would be. passionate about arguing and most of my. family are the same my grandmother was. very opinionated my mom's very. opinionated my siblings on they're.

probably the quiet is one of the three. of us when we go out of all of us um so. opinions to me are the spice of life if. you don't have an opinion there's. something wrong with you to me you've. got to care about what's happening in. the world and you've got to work out. what you think about it and i. particularly think it's important now. and there's so much opinion flying. around that people go to the right. people so that they hear the right kind. of stuff because there's so much. nonsense being spewed into the sort of. twitter sphere and so on on facebook but.

that's why i think your show is so. successful your podcast because then. people appreciate the more reasonable. take that you have on things and the way. you try and get to the truth about. people and about things. so. there's on one hand um. loving. to have a discussion and to have your. opinion be heard and and to convey. information and then there's this other. part which i tried to understand which. was you repeatedly said even at 16 and. 17 years old that you liked being the. center of attention. so i'm like where does because that.

feels like more of a psychological thing. a lot of people don't like being the. same i just wanted to be famous i used. to practice my autograph when i was a. kid why regularly i wanted to be. fabulous i used to collect autographs so. i was a massive cricket fan in. particular me and my brother used to go. and. stand outside pavilions at professional. games and wait for players to come out. and get ian botham's autograph rich's. autograph. and i used to practice mine then i began. writing to world leaders i've got all. these letters from my margaret thatcher. and ted heath when he was prime minister. and world leaders around the world i've.

got letters from donald bradman you know. whole shaftland the greatest cricketer. that ever lived i used to just write to. him and used to write back so i used to. spend my entire time in weird. correspondence with the world's most. famous people and quietly thinking to. myself i'd love to be one of these. people must be great center of attention. everyone looking at you talking about. you good bad and ugly so yeah i mean. there are bits of paper at home that my. mum's kept with just endless best wishes. appears morgan best wishes i mean it. sounds ludicrous and extremely vain and.

presumptuous of me but now i'm at the. stage where ironically i've got to a. stage where if in the old days i had. this level of recognition i'd be. starting autographs all the time but. nobody wants autographs anymore everyone. wants a selfie. so when i finally got there yeah. actually all the grass had gone out of. fashion it's now selfie time you're very. you're very honest about that a lot of. people wouldn't i don't think. i think 99 of my guests would not have. the whatever to say i wanted to be. famous and by the way most of them are. lying yeah right so i i like to think.

that whether you love me or hate me i do. have a kind of brutal honesty about what. i've set out to achieve. what i have achieved what i've failed at. i don't try and sugarcoat things nor do. i try and pretend i'm something i'm not. you know you don't have to like me to. respect the fact i think that i speak my. mind i give honest opinions about stuff. they're not always opinions people agree. with but i want them to be i don't want. people to agree with me necessarily i. want to stimulate debate and to get if. hopefully get to some kind of truth. which is the most important thing in.

in a world where truth is so difficult. to find i also wanted to be famous and. i've only really realized this in. hindsight that i definitely wanted to be. famous not for the wrong reasons but i. think the reason i wanted to be famous. is because. it was the antithesis it was the. opposite of what i was sometimes when i. was younger when you're a kid trying to. fit in on the playground only black kid. in an all-white school people calling me. the n-word relaxing my hair to try and. be white like my friends were and i. think i thought fame as. acceptance. on a mass scale so i thought an. admiration so i thought that's what i.

wanted when i read about you going to. that comprehensive school. i you were also subjected to quite a. rough treatment yeah well my full name. is piers stefan pugh morgan it's a. double barrel surname imagine having. that name when you go to a local comp. so you know on day one i had the local. skinhead who had a mohican come up and i. think smacked me in the face and that. carried on for quite a while but it. carried on people doing that kind of. thing until my brother jeremy's now a. british army colonel joined the school. and he was like the old thing of mike. tyson you know everyone's got a plan.

until they get punched in the face. everyone had a plan about me. until my brother joined and punched him. in the face so i realized then that fall. sometimes it's not a bad thing that when. you're subjected to bullies actually. there's only one language most of them. understand i feel that as i did about. the playground at the time and i feel. about vladimir putin now what's going on. in ukraine it's the same principle when. someone's bullying you either show them. fear and weakness or you stand up to. them did you like school even though you. were both yeah i loved it i went to a.

prep school until i was 13. so i had a. lot of privilege at the prep school you. know played sport every day. great academic uh levels and so on i. then went to the local comprehensive. which was a great school great very. successful comprehensive but suddenly. you were playing sport once a week i. realized then the massive gulf. between facilities and resource at a. comprehensive compared to a fee paying. prep school and how that was seemed so. unfair to me but i also discovered that. people. they had chips on their shoulders in.

both environments you got the snobs at. the prep school and you got the yobs at. the. comprehensive most people were fine at. both but you got those two types of. people who would have chips on their. shoulders. about in the snobs case looking down on. people in the yobs case hating people. who had more privilege than them i think. i came out of that environment both. environments with quite a healthy you. either have a chip on both shoulders we. have no chip at all i think my ability. to. be exactly the same whether i'm sitting. with nelson mandela and the queen or my.

old village mates. comes entirely from that dual pronged. education i had where i saw great. privilege and no privilege and had to. work out a way. of thriving in both environments i think. that was good for me actually if i. removed that experience of that. comprehensive school especially that. before your brother arrived um and saved. you from the bullying per se um what. would if i removed that experience what. would i remove from adult pierce morgan.

um i think resilience and mental. strength these are two things i'm. extremely hot about i think this. generation in particular has lost the. ability to look at mental strength and. resilience and triumph over adversity. and being tough in difficult times as. badges of honor they've almost become. badges of shame. where people feel like it's wrong to. have a stiff upper lip to be. strong-minded to be resilient to be. tough under pressure and i looked yes i.

was watching the golf the masters tiger. woods. look at tiger woods the story i mean. unbelievable 21 is the greatest golfer. that's ever lived destroying everybody. he has it all he wins 14 majors then he. has one of the greatest falls in the. history of sport and it all involves you. know vegas mayhem and so on and his. world collapses then he has horrific. injuries he becomes number 1100 in the. world he's finished there's a whole. mashup of clips of people saying he's. washed up he's finished he'll never win.

again whatever. and there's also a video of him watching. that mashup just after he wins the 2019. masters which no one said he could do. again and again now he has a horrific. car crash you know a year ago and yet. here he is competing in the masters he's. made the cut again the guy is a freak of. nature but he's a freak of mental. strength and i look at him. and i see rocky balboa in mentality and. i look at many other sports stars at the.

moment who think it's fine to quit to. give up to walk away to complain all the. time to moan about their lot in life and. i think how have we come to this. how even in high level sport has. quitting now becomes something to. celebrate now it's a contentious issue. and people say you're mocking mental. health when you do this but i don't. think so i think we treat the whole. mental health debate the wrong way i. think we should separate mental health. from mental illness. i don't think mental health is an issue. to even be debated particularly we all.

have mental health but if you have a. mental illness you need help you need. treatment right now people are it seems. to me looking at normal life stuff as. some form of mental illness. and anxiety is exploding. people saying they're mentally sick. the incidence of that is exploding how. can that be happening when it's all. we're talking about 24 7. i think we're. going about it the wrong way i think. what we're losing in this debate. is a celebration of resilience and.

mental strength i really believe that. and i think i think schools should have. more people in there teaching kids how. to be tougher about how to deal with. normal life stuff and i'm not talking. about people who have clinical. depression or suicidal tendencies or any. of those things those are serious mental. illnesses i'm talking about people who. are. thinking that normal stuff that's. happening in my life which we all have. to go through grief when you lose a. loved one.

trouble at work trouble with. relationships whatever it may be. you've got to learn to be more resilient. about these things because that is life. life is rocky balboa said it's it's not. a it's not a better roses. life is tough you know and it's not. about how many times is rock he said to. his son and the famous scene in the. sixth of the franchise when they're that. scene in the street with the spoiled. entitled sun whining away about. everything and rocky turns on him. finally and says look it's not how many.

times you. can hit it's how many times you can get. hit get knocked down and get back up and. keep moving forward that is what life's. about. and i don't think. we spend enough time. helping people to be mentally strong and. resilient we're spending too much time. encouraging a kind of wallowing in. self-pity and weakness and it's it is. i'm afraid it's not working demonstrably. not working i remember when you did an. interview with a famous world leader i.

think he was a terrorist and you said to. him about his daughter what if your. daughter had dated a jewish yeah. so uh president in the judge of iran. yeah so so the i'll use that same. technique if if one of your children. comes to you and they and they express. some kind of symptom which could either. be a lack of mental resilience or it. could be but they do yeah they do and. how do you know the difference though. well you don't i talk to them yeah and i. talk i try and with all my kids they're. all very different. but they've all come to me at certain. stages with issues they they want help.

with. and i always try and drill into them. perspective the great thing you get as. you get older and i'm 57 now. you learn about life good bad and ugly. you learn from mistakes you learn from. stuff that's gone bad in your life. you learn that actually you either give. up or you keep pounding as i keep always. say to them keep pounding just keep. pounding it'll be fine. and it invariably is fine so they start. to realize over time that i'm right that.

actually just keep going right don't. give up whatever it is if it's a work. issue if it's an exam issue if it's a. relationship issue whatever it is i have. these conversations all the time on my. kids you know they're like the people i. spend most time talking to and i try and. you know and they all need different. advice and different help in different. ways. but what i try and do is perspective all. the time and based on my own experience. it's like i've been there i've been in. this position it feels like the worst. thing in the world. you know you lose a girlfriend that you. love you lose a job that you love you.

you know you crash a car you lose a. family member that you love whatever it. may be. there are all sorts of things that will. come and test you especially as you get. older you lose your first friend who. dies when you're young i can remember. losing one of my closest friends before. he was even 30. devastating absolutely. devastating but when it happens again. and again with people that you care. about you realize that's life life is. what it is you have one life and people. die and people you love die and people.

you care about die. and you've got to learn to ride that. that wave of grief and it's not mental. illness. it's not anxiety. it's. actually just something we all have to. deal with but too much i think too many. young people today. feel unnaturally anxious about these. things as they did about the pandemic or. about the war in ukraine an interesting. conversation i had with dr phil. out here in america actually about this. who said when he was young he gave the. analogy when he was young if.

someone was eaten by a crocodile on a. golf course in florida very unlikely. that anyone would know that outside of. the immediate area. you know there were very few as one or. two. main television news bulletins a day. there were very few national newspapers. most state or county newspapers. and so it might get reported in the. local paper that would be it but. certainly nobody outside of florida. would likely ever hear about that the. difference now is. young people will see the video of the.

person being eaten by the crocodile. within 20 minutes of it happening. quite likely someone will have got it on. a camera on their phone so they're being. exposed all the time to a sensory. overload of quite grim stuff ukraine is. a very good example. of the first time really we've had a war. of this kind where we're all watching it. in real time. unfurl on social media we're seeing all. the videos we're seeing the horror in. real first hand.

exposure and that has to have an effect. on your senses it has to increase your. anxiety levels i get all that um you. know my grandmother was 19 in world war. ii when it started 25 when it ended she. didn't see all this stuff you just. didn't get exposed to it but if she had. been it would have probably had a. devastating effect on her so i think. that. i have sympathy with this generation i. think in many ways they're a great. generation they're better informed than. any previous generation i think that. these. networks like instagram facebook twitter.

and so on they've certainly given people. an amazing connection with each other. but they've also got this terrible fomo. which has been created which i see the. first time with my kids one of their. summer and all their mates are somewhere. else all they're seeing is all the fun. going on on instagram. and it makes them a bit. anxious. i never had that i didn't know what my. friends were doing in the next village. so things have changed technology's. changed it's good in one way it can be. bad in other ways and we've got to work.

out a way to help. young people but ultimately i come back. to. i don't want to be unsympathetic. certainly i want to help. but i do think we're going about it the. wrong way i think we're encouraging or. wallowing we're celebrating self-pity. we're celebrating victimhood in a way. that everybody now is like you see stuff. on twitter like you know i've just. failed my driving test for the fourth. time but i'm so proud of myself for the. journey i've gone on what are you.

talking about. which means you're proud of yourself you. just failed you're driving desperately. thought let's be proud of i get that. part the bit that i i still i'm still. struggling to get on board with is. having sat here with even i know you. know roman kemp yeah and his love. right having sat here with roman kemp. and hearing this what he went through. with his his friend who was on his radio. station with him i'm very aware of that. yeah killed himself out of the blue yes. and never spoke to anyone and roman said. if i'd lined up 20 of my friends and. said which one is suicidal he would have. been named last yeah in my estimation so. when i reflect on that and i i look at.

male suicides in particular and a lot of. what the mental health organizations say. the causes of that one of them is that. men just don't talk about how they're. feeling and then that results in. alcoholism and these are but i do talk. about it yeah and i do encourage people. so this is what i'm saying so when. someone says the use of the word. wallowing that sounds very similar it. depends what they're wallowing in if. they're wallowing in. but you know when you use those words. yes. you know because you're a smart man and. you you you write you know that people. will.

misunderstand the use of the word and. there's harm in them that's them. misunderstanding what i mean by it okay. it's a bit like the debate about obesity. we're now at the ludicrous stage of this. debate we're not allowed to call people. fat. you're not allowed to it's offensive. so we now have a situation where you see. a 310 pound model on the cover of. cosmopolitan who's five foot two she's. dangerously morbidly obese but the cover. the picture and the interview six pages. inside never mentions that it celebrates. her body positive image nothing body.

positive about being morbidly obese. she's going to die if she's enabled in. this way going forward i'm not afraid to. say that and there's a society that. doesn't go there. and pretends that this is all perfectly. acceptable is doing that woman an. incredible disservice so when you say. well you can't use the word wallowing. but i would say to you stephen i didn't. say that because you're implying it yeah. yeah. because i would say to you a lot of. people do wallow i see them what's the.

difference between wallowing and coming. to a friend and saying i'm feeling. really or even tweeting it so i'm. feeling like there's something wrong. with me what's the difference between. wallowing well there's a line i don't. know i know exactly what the line is but. i do know when friends or family members. come to me. either they come to me with something. where i think yeah they've got a valid. reason to feel this way or sometimes you. just got to go. get over it and then they might laugh. and have a drink and they get over it i. think by the way you're not allowed to. say that anymore there'll be people. watching this your younger audience will.

be going oh my god did you just tell. people to get over it it's all about. people with mental illness no i'm not no. i'm not be very careful that you listen. to what i'm saying i distinguish between. people who i believe have mental illness. and people who i believe are genuinely. wallowing because society has decided. that it wants to celebrate people who. have something wrong with them more than. it celebrates now people who are. successful and tough achievers and talk. about having grit and stiff upper lip. and all these things that's all become. sticks to beat people with i have it.

used against me a day you talk about a. stiff upper lip why shouldn't i. why shouldn't i i have a stiff upper lip. i've been through a lot of crap in my. life and i've decided that that's the. way i deal with it you may not like it. and maybe you like to deal with it by. going woe is me and one of my favorite. poems is a uh d.h lawrence poem called. about self-pity it's only three or four. lines. and it says a wild thing never feels. sorry for itself. a bird will die frozen. on a bow of a tree before it feels.

self-pity or something like that it's a. brilliant poem so that's it it's only. about four lines. and i get that point is in the in the. jungle in the world of animals self-pity. doesn't exist. wallowing in your own woe doesn't exist. you've got to get on with it you know. one of my favorite conversations ever. with with sir roger bannister who sadly. died but he was the first man to break. the four-minute mile. and he i asked him he used to live in. the square i live in london and he came.

to one of the 200th anniversary of the. square and i had a chat with him and i. said did you only you know when you won. this amazingly killed it collapsed at. the line i said did you have any sort of. motivational quote that drove you and he. went funny enough he said i have one it. was an anonymous proverb from the. african bush. and it was when a lion wakes up in the. morning. it knows one thing it has to run faster. than the slowest gazelle or it won't eat. and when a gazelle wakes up in the. morning it knows it has to run faster. than the slowest line or it's going to.

get killed. so whatever you are in the african bush. one thing's for sure. when the sun comes up you better start. running. and that motivated him and it's a great. quote and i think it's a great quote for. all your. viewers listeners in this podcast to. take away from this interview if you. take one thing away. get running get moving. be positive don't let normal life stuff. drag you down because if it does it will. dominate your life and you'll become one.

of those sort of miserable. self-obsessed people in the wrong way. where all you're thinking about is you. and your problems and your woes it's. like there are a lot of people a lot. worse off than you when i see some of. the crap i'm watching at the moment on. social media of people feeling sorry for. themselves when you see what's happening. in ukraine it actually makes me puke. it's like watch what's happening to the. people of ukraine and get a perspective. about your life and i'm sorry if that. sounds tough but i'm not sorry actually.

i get you i completely get the point. about mental resilience and i think. there's so much of what you said that i. really agree with especially about a. younger generation i'm. i've said on this podcast many times i. am scared of over labeling things things. that might just be a bad mood or. whatever with something else which is. much more medically um concerning and. when i asked that question then you said. it depends what it is yeah in terms of a. friend coming to you with mental health. disorder the problem is. you'll know that these things are so. subjective so. when uh when someone comes like people.

could genuinely be suicidal genuinely be. suicide not well faking or looking for. attention over. losing a cryptocurrency investment i. read an article about that the other day. guy's crypto investment goes down kills. himself. so i i the risk i see is being the judge. of whether someone's feelings are worthy. of the the emotion. that's the risk it's like. you know like i think there are because. there are millions of people out there. prepared to. do what you're talking about i i'm a.

very rare voice. in the public platform arena who's. prepared to give a slightly different. perspective on this stuff and to me. there's room for both of us you know you. don't need any more people who are going. to give 24 7 coverage to mental health. as an issue as. on the assumption we're all slightly. mentally ill i just don't buy it i read. i read a report last year said 33. million people in britain are mentally. ill no but not. it's crap. crap and when when a society pretends.

that is the case. because a lot of people are identifying. as mentally ill when actually they just. have anxiety about exams or. relationships or whatever it may be. when we do that it means the people who. really need help are not getting it it. means they're slipping through the. cracks in my opinion. and that's the problem with it. um and you know it's not about being. callous or insensitive my i think my. kids would tell you i spent hours and. hours. sometimes talking through problems with. them but always i come back to look.

life's tough and you've got to keep. pounding that's my mantra. because this one i've applied to myself. and my family have had a lot of stuff to. deal with and they've kept pounding. because what's the alternative really. the alternatives you give up. and that to me is not an option. not an option that would bring me any. pleasure couldn't look in the mirror. having just given up all the time why. would why would that bring anyone. pleasure. i had a few words to say about one of my. sponsors on this podcast for many years. people have been asking for a coffee.

flavoured huel and quite recently he'll. release the iced coffee caramel flavor. of their um ready to drink heels and. i've just become hooked on it over the. last couple of weeks i've been on a. really interesting journey with huel. which i've described and talked about a. little bit on this podcast i started. with the berry ready to drink then i. moved over to the protein salted caramel. because it's 100 calories and it gives. you all of your essential vitamins and. minerals but also gives you the 20 odd. grams of protein you need and now i'm. balanced between them both i drink. mostly the banana flavor ready to drink.

i've got really into the iced coffee. caramel flavor of heels ready to drink. and now i'm drinking that as well as the. protein make sure you try the new ready. to drink flavors that the caramel flavor. is amazing the new banana flavor as well. is amazing and obviously as i said the. iced coffee caramel flavor has been a. real smash here so check it out let me. know what you think on social media i. see all of your tags and instagram posts. and tweets about you. back to the podcast. one of the things that i love about your. um well i was really compelled by by.

your story as i read through your early. professional career was clearly for some. reason which i couldn't figure out from. just reading. you got a head quite quickly. kelvin gave you a shot yeah at the sun. rupert murdoch gave you a shot at news. of the world when you were 28 he made. you the the editor of the largest. newspaper in the western hemisphere if. i'm not correct 28 years old so when i. was reading that i i thought i've got to. ask him. why. what was it about you well i think that. i remember alex ferguson saying i know. you're a big united fan of my sympathies.

at this different time i remember him. saying that he loved youth because there. was a fearlessness of youth i think i. was quite fearless in my 20s certainly. you know before you get responsibility. before you get married you have kids and. so on you get other people you're. responsible for there's a fearlessness. that comes with youth and i think i had. that certainly it was instilled by. the confidence came from my family very. strong women in particular in my family. my mum my grandmother tremendously. strong people who come through a lot of. adversity um never wallowed in self-pity.

to quote the awful phrase i know drives. you mad. but they never did and that was just not. allowed it was always like just get on. with it dust yourself down get on with. it and i like that to be honest i. thrived under that mantra and i remember. kelvin mckenzie was a mercurial genius. in many many ways. brutal but brilliant you know hilarious. and barbaric i mean he's like everything. but the sun had an amazing power and. voice when he was in charge of it. and. he said the most annoying thing about me. was that he could give me the most.

savage bollocking where literally his. sort of neck. veins would start to explode. and within an hour i'd bounce back into. his office. bouncing with excitement because i had a. scoop for him and i was completely. unfazed by the bollocking it had. motivated me to go and prove him wrong. and get and get a good story i think. that's how people should be in life. i think it's a shame that in the. workplace now you're not allowed to. raise your voice. you're not allowed to it's bullying. everyone's a victim of bullying you.

can't have any banter anymore can't be. fun. all the joy's been sucked out of life by. this woke brigade of. in my view awful people. who just think that life should be. humorous. banterless. uh everything is bullying every. criticism is bullying. everything is terrible people are awful. you can't have fun you can't do anything. i don't buy it it's not what most people. are like. most people aren't like that they don't. actually believe the crap they're coming.

out with they don't it's not how anybody. wants to lead their lives we know from. the pandemic what it's like when our. freedom our basic freedom gets taken. away why would we come out of a pandemic. would we want to lead a joyless. existence how do we fix this because i. agree with you i i think that common. sense has to come into play i think the. problem with the the woke council. culture as i put it is if you go and. study i read a whole book about this. last year it was a massive bestseller. because people understood it right so i. think you know where i come from. probably politically we're not that far. apart from each other i guess from what.

i know about you um but i i want to. study the origin of the word woke and. what it meant i by that definition i'm. woke. i believe in promoting. uh campaigns against racial and social. injustice i've done it all my career as. a newspaper editor and as a television. broadcaster you know i've done that it. doesn't cut the ice though with the. modern word brigade because they've. stolen. wokery and they've now used it as a new. form of fascism. where they want to dictate to people how.

they lead their lives what they can find. funny. what movies are acceptable are not. acceptable what television shows they. can enjoy you know what haircuts they. can have that aren't inappropriate or. cultural inappropriation you can't. celebrate any other culture anymore it's. all inappropriate every joke is. inappropriate every comedian has to be. cancelled people can't host the oscars. if they told a inappropriate joke 10. years before. uh yet roman polanski was given an oscar. after he raped a child i mean the sort.

of warp morality of all this. is absolutely extraordinary to me but at. its center a woman came up to me in. kensington. a few months ago after the markle. debacle as i call it and she said she. said mr morgan i'm an 80 year old. australian woman but don't hold either. of those things against me i meant to. laugh on the streets he said the trouble. with these wokies is they want to suck. all the joy out of life and i thought. what a brilliant way of describing it. and they've literally become the very. fascists that they profess to hate most.

and we have to counter it and so my. ambition with my new show for example is. to cancel cancer culture to go back to. what a democracy should be to what. society should be when it's supposedly. democratic where you and i can have a. spirited debate about something and. agree to disagree and go and have a beer. or maybe we reach points of consensus to. what used to happen i've had ferocious. arguments with my friends and family my. entire life the idea i would disown them. as you see happening all the time now. with people falling out with friends and.

family because they're so blindly. self-righteous about their own opinion. that they can't tolerate another opinion. the idea we have university campuses. where. only one certain type of voice is. tolerated at a university a place you're. supposed to learn all sorts of disparate. views hear all different voices and make. your own mind up now no unless they're. woke speakers no one else is allowed if. you're a conservative which by the way. many millions of people are in this. country in america and australia if.

you're a conservative you are the enemy. to be crushed and destroyed and no. platformed really. how do we get there. how could any student. have their mind developed or evolved in. an environment that cancels anybody. for deviating from a woke agenda. it's. madness. you know and when i look at what's. happening with the transgender debate i. support transgender rights to fairness. and equality i always have publicly in.

columns on television. on twitter. i've been very clear i want transgender. people to have equality and fairness. right to the point where trans activism. leads to an erosion of women's rights as. we're seeing all over the place not. least in the world of sport if anybody. genuinely wants to sit here and say to. me that what's going on in women's sport. with transgender athletes is fair or. equal. i'd love to listen to it because it's. [ __ ]. we all know it's unfair and what's being.

caught in the crosshairs of this is that. many trans people who don't want to get. involved in this debate and just want to. be able to go about their lives and try. and have a life of fairness and equality. they're getting subjected to mockery and. ridicule. because it's so ridiculous what's going. on. with. transport. and so i say to people yeah you can say. to me you're bigoted and you're. transphobic but i'm not. i'm actually just the voice of common. sense when you see even jk rowling.

cancelled because she believes in the. biology of sex. it's just madness. sex is not something you can just. pretend like gender it could be anything. you make up on the spur of the moment it. can't be. you you've seen how this is. got progressively more let's say the. world has got progressively more work. i think. the world has moved from being. woke. right okay by the original i think that. most people in the 60s 70s and 80s.

wanted to see better. racial equality and social equality. most people. but that's what the original definition. of woke was the modern day woke is. nothing to do with that the modern day. woke is a form of fascism okay so you. will abide by our rules or you get. destroyed that's the difference to me so. the world has got more of this modern. day wokism yeah right um and it's i i've. seen it on social media the way that. algorithms work as well they show you. more of the same they keep reinforcing. you then they then because you build an.

audience of the same people they clap. more when you say a certain thing yes. kind of reinforcement you appreciate. your choir yeah you know i i i you know. geologies. you go about two thousand years we lived. in tribes yeah that's written in your. book yeah right and i told the story you. never used to come out of your tribe so. everyone in the tribe would look the. same same attitudes eat the same food. drink the same drink same senses of. humor because you never moved out of. this group of people. and then people began to move out of. their tribes and meet other tribes who. dress differently thought differently. laughed at different things maybe spoke.

differently and both tribes in that. moment decided the only answer to this. was to kill each other. well that's where we've gone back to are. you optimistic that not really no so. this is what i wanted to say is your. antidote for this new workism is to lead. and to create a counter narrative which. is what you're doing with your new show. piece you haven't centered what you did. with your book as well are you. optimistic deeply that that will win. well let me ask you a question so i'm. i'm described as highly controversial. right i've been called all sorts of.

names people say that what i say things. i say are outrageous. when you read my book how many times did. you stop and think that's outrageous no. i didn't really disagree with anything. right so that's my point i don't think. i'm the controversial one well so i. think i come at this from a reasonably. common scenario i didn't disagree with. you at all because you were talking. about things like populism and. liberalism and how it's changed i. completely agree i think i used to. identify as being on the left now i. don't because the the. the because they're nuts a lot of them. yeah a lot of it is absolutely nuts i. also don't really identify with being on.

the right either because they're nuts i. agree. i find myself you get nuts on both sides. and we're moving to the extremities but. i'll get cancelled from both sides yes. because i don't wear the football kit of. either i'm the same yeah so i want to. bring back a more. consensus related society. where consensus where you reach points. of agreement through debate and you. don't try and. shame or cancel each other by having. different opinions. because that's at the core of this you. know they call themselves liberals. they're not liberal liberalism isn't.

about. an inability to tolerate other opinions. it's the opposite. you're supposed to tolerate and respect. other opinions. and agree to disagree we've lost this in. society because a small group of people. but very vocal and very angry about. everything all the time. they are driving an agenda which if we. go down that road we'll be the end of a. democratic society as we know it so i. see my self. humbly as. trying to defend democracy genuinely.

and humility is not something that comes. naturally to me but genuinely trying to. defend what democracy really is and. trying to educate these. wokies about what real liberalism is. what democracy actually means what free. speech means free speech is not about. you in an echo chamber all agreeing with. each other as churchill said free speech. is about listening to views you just. don't agree with but allowing people to. have different views.

you're you know it's funny i i went. around the world when i was running my. marketing business um before i resigned. and i used to have one slide on my. presentation deck that had your face on. it. and do you know who else's face was on. that same slide deck i went all around. the world with this presentation with. apple amazon i had pierce morgan. katie hopkins kanye west and donald. trump and i used to tell people that. this a very important thing to learn. from these four people because whether. you like them or not. in marketing the least profitable. outcome is indifference when you don't.

carry either way and people have an. opinion it's funny because. you know i was talking to the girls on. my team here yesterday and they don't. always agree with you but they're always. listening yeah and sometimes you know on. the covered issues or this issue they'll. be behind you and then they'll be. against you but do you realize. strategically. um the art of being the sen being the. center of conversation yes and and what. are the principles. if if it's a brand trying to be relevant. or the center of attention or if it's a. person in their personal brand for you. what are the principles for one to.

replicate what you've done with that. confidence confidence in yourself. self-belief yeah i think the one thing i. have is a lot of self-belief i'm i'm. firm i remember a friend of mine kevin. peterson the cricketer his big mantra. with himself when he played cricket for. england was back yourself back yourself. whoever you're facing he was one of the. few players in history to demolish shane. warm at his peak in the 2005 ashes. series because he backed himself but. it's smashing it's risky we've seen from. your cause it's risky but as wayne. gretzky the greatest ice hockey player.

in history. said brilliantly you'll miss a hundred. percent of the shots you don't take. you've got to take risks in life you've. got to learn from failure mars the. confectioners used to celebrate. chocolate bars that didn't work more. than they did chocolate bars that worked. they worked on the assumption that most. of their bars would work they tested. them tested and tested and knew what. they were doing so most of their. new bars would would work but if they. occasionally had a failure out of. nowhere stunned everyone they would. celebrate that because they reckon they.

learn more from the failure than they. did from the endless success and i agree. i've learned more from failures and. success success is easy. when you're successful everyone must. have a piece of the pie and i've had. great success and i've had. wonderfully you know cataclysmic moments. of doing. and when you get the doing the old. cliche you find out who your friends are. is completely true you find out who your. friends are you find out who actually. cares about you who's prepared to stand. up for you.

you know i remember. after my dramatic departure from good. morning britain sharon osbourne. tweeting uh that i was entitled to my. opinion. she knew by doing that there could be. massive repercussions for her given how. incendiary the whole debate was it cost. her a job. scandalously. scandalously she was described as a. racist sympathizer. on her show the talk but when she asked. them to describe what racist things i'd. said they weren't able to do so because. guess what i'd said nothing racist.

nothing i thought about mega market was. driven by. anything to do with her race or skin. color why would it be. i just thought she was a disingenuous. piece of work smearing the royal family. i'm entitled to that opinion you may not. agree with it i think most people who. watch the interview probably ended up. agreeing with me it doesn't really. matter whether you agree or not but the. idea that sharon osborne was destroyed. at the altar of. cancel culture. because she had the audacity to say i. was entitled to an opinion not that she.

even agreed with my opinion. just that i was entitled to one. that in that moment said to me. how ridiculous this culture has got. ridiculous and i'm delighted that sharon. is now going to be back on talk tv in. the uk. in the show after mine on a show called. the talk. she's going to be uncanceled by us. because she should never have been. cancelled in the first place and when. people say counseling doesn't exist look. at what happened to sharon look at the.

effect it had on her and her family. devastating she couldn't get a job in. america where she'd worked for 40 years. so it's going on and i i want to cancel. that culture i think it's wrong so so. one of so that led to the first point. there was confidence in backing yourself. yes i think the other thing you've got. to have a bit of bravado a bit of. hutzpah. you've got to have an ability to know. how to stir things up and wind people up. i like to annoy all the right people who. are so permanently offended by. everything they're easy to wind up do i. enjoy that yes i love sometimes just.

putting a tweeter i mean the vegan. sausage roll debate was one of the. funniest things ever i had the flu on. holiday in italy i was in bed sweating. with a raging fever and i saw greg. saying the wait is over. finally it's here the vegan sausage. right so what on earth are you talking. about who's been waiting for a vegan. sausage roll apart from anything else. like brew with the french where it's. illegal to market. uh vegetarian or vegan products using. meat language a sausage roll is meat.

if vegans want to eat their gruel fine. go and have a joyless existence munching. your lentils don't take my language. don't pretend your sausage rolls are. real sausage rolls they're not and. they're tasteless and they've got more. calories than mcdonald's cheeseburgers. so my point is. do i care look i don't care as much as i. do about ukraine. but in the moment it really annoyed me. that there was a presumption we'd all. been waiting for a vegan sausage roll. and i was also annoyed that you were. seeing stories of. vegans charging into state restaurants. and playing music of cows being killed.

it's like shut up and go away i don't. come into your gruel restaurant. ever and shout about what you do to the. bee community in california when you eat. your almonds and almond milk right. billions of bees exterminated every year. in a six week cull in california so. vegans can eat almonds and eat avocados. but do you care about vegan sausage. rolls uh i care about the hypocrisy that. surrounds the debate actually so anyway. i did a tweet saying this is ridiculous.

and. and everyone went nuts i wasn't allowed. to think that this was ridiculous i had. to agree that vegan sausage rolls are. fantastic everyone goes bonkers. greg's love it because they sell i think. about a billion dollars worth more of. their products that year in fact the ceo. thanked me personally at the end of year. results so they cleaned up in fact i'm. thinking about going to a business where. all i do is take big checks from. companies to attack their products and. probably make a fortune and but the. whole thing to show me that everyone was. allowed to love vegan sausage rolls but.

if you deviated from that and said you. hated them you had to be destroyed this. wasn't acceptable. the work brigade decided vegan sausage. rolls were untouchable you had to. support them you had to think they were. great this was brilliant even though. they're bad for you. literally worse for you than a. mcdonald's cheeseburger uh in terms of. salt and calorie intake. and even though the whole thing was. predicated on this utter hypocrisy. around vegan food that somehow they're. leaving the little the animals alone. when they exterminate the little guys.

the bees and i feel sorry for the bees. no one ever hear vegans talk about bees. here it's always the big animals they. care about cows not the little guys i'm. a little guy. i'm the robin hood of this debate i look. after the little guys against the. sheriffs of nottingham sure. well i think about that so okay you play. that you play you know i know from what. you've said here you know that it's part. of it is a game and it's a very. profitable it's all fun right to a point. but there's also a serious point behind. it which is that actually.

the vegan. food business is a massively burgeoning. business and that's fine people want to. eat that that's fine but i do agree with. the french that actually you shouldn't. be allowed to. pretend what you're doing is meat. related because it's not so there's a. genuine point there which i do feel. quite strongly about the french have. made it illegal you can't use meat. language to sell vegan products i think. we should go the same way you have your. world and we'll have ours you know your. career has been pretty filled with these. moments of like where you are the center. the orbit of sort of you know.

debate and controversy controversy when. you go for a period and people aren't. tweeting at your abuse and stuff and. they're not kicking off do you feel a. little bit like [ __ ] was i've made a. mistake i remember donald trump telling. me when he got to the white house he put. four tvs in his bedroom i used to wake. up in the morning at five o'clock. because he doesn't sleep. and he'd look at the tvs and if he. didn't like what was on the screen or if. it wasn't about him he'd just pull his. phone out and tweet something and next. thing they'd all change in real time. breaking news president trump says blah. blah blah and i kind of related to that. it's like i wake up in the morning and. i'm not trending it's like there's a.

problem and i have to deal with it so. yeah look i'm in the opinion business. it's very lucrative for me i make a lot. of money out of it i get a lot of. notoriety and fame out of it people love. me or hate me but you know that's. part of being in the opinion business if. you don't want to be. loved and hated. then you don't express opinions about. anything and that way to me madness lies. you know i'd much rather be it's like. the old again churchill uh you know he. said that. if you've got enemies it means at some. stage in your life you stood up for. something that you believe in good.

that's good. when you've had those you you called. them catastrophic events in your life. where you know. and well other people see them as. catastrophic i've never really seen it. that way myself like when i got fired. from the mirror for example yeah after. 10 years other people were far more. agitated about that and thought it was. far more characterism than i did the. mirror good morning britain and this was. the other thing about your story which i. found really i wanted to ask you about. is you have these these ups and then. these downs and these ups and these. downs and your twitter bio i think is.

probably quite an an apt um. summary of of maybe your views on this. which is i can't remember exactly but. one day of the cockpit one day you're. the [ __ ] of the war next to feather. duster yeah so. and then i read that you know after like. the mirror situation you slept a lot. yeah. and then and then also it seems that. after every firing or push getting. pushed out whatever you go and get. pissed no. again churchill who i love as you may. have gathered again churchill who's now. being reviled by the white brigade of. course because he saved the world from. nazi germany so of course he has to be.

destroyed. but churchill you know he he also said. that the best definition of success is. going from failure to failure with no. discernible loss of enthusiasm now i. think i've had a lot of success and. occasional failure but i don't look upon. any of the downs in the same way that. other people do about my career i'm very. relaxed about my level of success and. failure i think it's all been greased to. the mill. normally i've left somewhere in. explosive circumstances and it's lit to. something better invariably so i'm very.

optimistic about it my glasses always. are full i think that one chapter ending. is another chapter about to start you. just have to make sure you get something. good. if i spoke to your wife i mean even your. kids and i said how does pierce's. emotional state change after in one of. these moments of catastrophic. failure getting kicked out. they'd say what i'm saying. he doesn't change at all barely at all. barely at all no i don't i don't i. probably if anything i'm more relaxed. that's all because when you're in one of.

these cauldron jobs editing a daily. newspaper or doing a morning tv show you. know and you've got the adrenaline. whirring and you're caffeined up and so. on it makes you slightly wired to be. around when you're not doing that you're. more relaxed i'm probably just calmer a. bit more relaxed and then that gets a. bit boring and i want to get back in the. game again because in that in that gap. between one job and the next that you've. had many of those those gaps what's. going on in your life and how are you. not because it must be very easy for you. to just to rush into something else the. next day yeah but the gap between you. leaving good morning britain i always.

advise people. when they lose a big job take your time. just go and clear your head. you'll get offered loads of things but. don't react to it let the dust settle. you know i left good morning britain it. was a massive global firestorm uh and i. just took my time i had loads of people. offering me stuff every day. all sorts of jobs from around the world. could have taken any one of them. uh but actually i thought i'm gonna take. my time just chill. watch some football watch some cricket. see some friends. uh get fit you know unfortunately then.

got covered and that was the end of the. fitness camp over a few months but the. the principle is clear your head you get. these moments a few times in your life. where you get a chance to reset. recalibrate clear your head and then. work out what you really want to do next. because it won't be the same thing three. or four months down the line as it feels. in the moment most people's tendencies. when they leave a big job in dramatic. circumstances i've got to do the same. thing somewhere else. prove my point i don't feel i need to. prove anything to anybody you know i was. a talent show judge for six years loved.

it number one show on british tv and. american tv for six years great then i. left. i i just couldn't think of any more. things to say about piano playing pigs. it's time to move on you know i did. larry king's job at cnn after him for. nearly four years i did 1200 shows on. prime time cnn around the world people. call it a failure it's like well that's. 1200 more than any other british person. i've seen do a prime time talk show in. america so it's all about it's all. relative isn't it about what your. perception of failure is had a great.

time in cnn and actually i wanted to. come home i then did breakfast tv which. i never thought i'd ever want to do or. even enjoy i loved it and we absolutely. crushed it we took the ratings from a 14. share to 36 share they've now gone back. to 18. so people could do the maths you. know i think it was a massive success. and yeah i still meet some people go uh. yeah all went wrong for you didn't i. said not really no no it was a brilliant. success good morning britain uh we. became the number one. breakfast show in the country on my last. day.

i left on a point of principle and the. principle was i'm entitled to my opinion. you may not like it i'm entitled to my. opinion and in each case where i've had. a career-ending sort of moment it's. really been where the bosses have lost. their bottle with me. so i need i've now gravitated back to my. first big boss in the media rupert. murdoch who's got balls of steel. and he's not going to take a phone call. from meghan markle demanding my head on. a plane. i had a few words to say about one of my. sponsors on this podcast as we all know.

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interested in sponsoring this podcast i. jumped at the opportunity so for those. of you that don't know my energy are a. uk renewable energy brand whose mission. is to increase the usage of green energy. helping people like you and i to save. time and money when it comes to making. sustainable switches in our lives so if. this resonates with you and you're the. type of person that's been looking or. thinking about going on your own. sustainability journey i highly. recommend checking them out at. meghan myenergy.com. right not going to go into the issues of. that i'm really not personally that.

interested in it but what i was i didn't. want to ask you as i saw when you spoke. oxford they you were talking about. jeremy clarkson getting in a fist fight. with him yeah going down the pub making. up after and there you said i do like to. fall out with someone in the makeup. again yeah. what would it take for you and meghan. markle. to make up. she could do she did an interview like. this with me be very interesting. you know it's like meghan markle to me. has lost all sense of reality about life.

she needs to sit with someone like me. not an oprah winfrey enabling interview. fueling your victimhood she needs. someone to give her some perspective i. talk to her about perspective. where i say you know you are you aware. that when you preach to us about climate. change and the environment and carbon. footprint from elton john's private. plane. it doesn't sit very well are you aware. that when you tweet as they did on the. day of her half a million dollar baby. shower in new york with all her. celebrity friends.

when you tweet from your twitter account. about poverty it doesn't sit very well. are you aware that when you preach about. equality from your 11 million california. mansion it doesn't sit very well are you. aware that when you rip our beloved. prince away from the bosom of his family. and take him to america and woke him. into submission it doesn't sit very well. with the british people are you aware. that when you make. very serious allegations of racism and. callous disregard for suicidal thoughts.

you actually have to produce some. evidence to support it otherwise. everyone at the palace and the royal. family gets smeared by association with. those comments is she aware of any of. those things i don't know but i'd love. to ask those questions she didn't get. asked them by oprah oprah's went what. what what repeatedly. just believed everything she said we now. know at least 17 statements that meghan. markle made in that interview were false. so am i still supposed to believe her.

is it a job-ending moment if i don't. believe her so i think she's a piece of. work. i think she i was one of many people. that she used along her. her path up the slippery ladder that's. fine i don't care he met her once. but the way she treated me on a very. small level is not dissimilar the way. she disowned her father the guy that. brought her up on his own for six seven. years. you know he got disowned he lived 70. miles away she never sees him he's ever.

met his son-in-law i miss crazy stuff. right she had one member of her entire. family at the wedding. where her family should have been on. either side was oprah winfrey and george. clooney do me a favor. so i see right through it people still. want to believe her that's fine people. love meghan markle think what's happened. to harry is great that's fine too i just. don't agree. and i'm afraid you have to respect my. right to have that opinion um i'm. getting about as bored with it as you.

are to be honest with you yeah so i. don't want to be defined by meghan. markle even though she was personally. responsible for me losing a job that i i. loved. you know she was the one who wrote to. the boss of itv. on the monday night that led to me. leaving the next day. um. talking about being we're both women and. we're both mothers you've got to get rid. of him do people think that's right. is it right that uh. that a. person like meghan markle from the. california mansion should leave her a.

british television broadcaster out of a. job he's enjoying that viewers are. enjoying him doing in that way i don't. think so is it right that my right to. free speech was so impinged that i had. to leave a job if i didn't apologize for. disbelieving someone who said false. things i don't think so i thought the. whole thing was ridiculous as did ofcom. the government regulated months later. who ruled in my favor so i thought the. whole thing frankly was preposterous but. in answer to your original question.

let's do an interview megan let me put. all these questions to you and answer. some difficult questions. because i don't wish them harm i don't. wish them to be unhappy but i hate what. they've done between them to the royal. family and the monarchy i think it's. been incredibly damaging do you ever do. you ever get concerned that on a real. human level that some of the words you. say. say for megan or sam smith or on good. morning britain or even around i know is. it tessa who was the front cover of the.

magazine yeah the the cosmo covergirl. cover do you ever has it ever crossed. your mind that the words or tweets might. actually. hurt someone do you think it's crossed. did you well has it across meghan. markle's mind. what she did to me you know like on the. suicide megan i didn't cost her a job. you know. she was saying she was suicidal. again i don't want to go back to the. point of mental health but did you ever. like think. is this going to. hurt this person on it she she said that.

two people at the palace when she told. them she had suicidal thoughts said she. couldn't get treatment. because it would be damaging to the. brand yeah i don't believe that and no. evidence has been brought forward to. support it those are extremely. incendiary allegations in my view. weaponizing mental health and suicide. to portray yourself as a victim if. meghan markle has proof. that two senior members of the royal. household refused to let her get help.

for suicidal thoughts i want to know who. they were. when they said it and they shouldn't. have those jobs. but we are now. a year and a bit later. no evidence similarly with her racism. claims one of them we knew immediately. was untrue it's completely untrue that. her son. was prevented from being a prince. because of his skin color demonstrably. untrue. factually wrong and the other claim was. that a member of the royal family. expressed concern about archie's skin.

color who was it and what did they say. and what was the context in which they. said it because the damage that she. calls by calling the royal family a. bunch of racists is incalculable as we. saw on the recent tour of the caribbean. with william and kate so i don't think. it's i don't think it's harsh. to want some evidence to support such. incendiary claims and when it comes to. do i use tough language yes sometimes i. think i do. but i don't regret doing that because i. think they've been using pretty.

despicable language themselves have you. ever regretted anything you've said in. terms of sometimes you think oh i mean. sometimes no i encourage all my kids to. be free thinkers and sometimes they'll. be on me you know like dad you went too. far you shouldn't say that and we'll. have a spirited debate about it and. sometimes they they change my mind about. stuff tell me one example i knew that. i tried to think it has happened. it has happened i mean they'll be saying. that my middle son stanley is an actor. and photographer. he loves your podcast he's my favorite. son yeah exactly he's like oh he's on.

mine all right i have all my sons of the. same and my daughter um. but he would say now that's talking. about meghan markle yeah just don't. bother don't and he's right there comes. a point what's the point the problem is. they make themselves. newsworthy all the time my job is to. talk about the news and obviously have a. vested interest in. the mark called debacle because it cost. me my job so i still feel that i have a. sort of involvement in that in that. story but he would certainly be saying. that move on to other stuff.

you know just do something else in this. interview that's more interesting than. megan bloody markle and he's right. actually. so that would be an example i've had. that conversation with him and my other. sons but we argue we have we have a. what's up group me and my sons if people. read that or they laugh because they. hammer me my kids about all sorts of. stuff sometimes we agree a lot of the. time we don't agree and we have. really vociferous arguments but then we. all go out there and have fun together. and that's the way it should be i want. my kids to be independent-minded i want.

them to challenge me i want to challenge. them and sometimes it gets really heated. you know as a dad when you're leading at. such a crusade as i'm sure you'd call it. um about free thinking and free speech. and these kinds of things. surely. there's some kind of consequence for. your kids right because you're put not i. mean fame. in and of itself creates a consequence. for you they get picked on because. they're my dad but i always say to them. you also get lots of benefits because. you're my sons right and my children all.

of you right we go and have a we have a. wonderful time right we get treated like. royalty in restaurants we you know we. have lovely holidays we have a lovely. place in beverly hills they come to all. this is because. of. my. fame for one of a better word and. success as amid the failings. and i say you got to take life in. totality there'll be some annoying bits. of being my. children and there'll be some very good. benefits of being my children you know i. got cristiano ronaldo when i interviewed.

him to do a uh video to my sons naming. them all right they were like oh my god. but they wouldn't get that if i wasn't. who i am so they have a wonderful moment. and then they might get trolls as in one. case happen making death threats to my. oldest son on his instagram and i did. take that to the police because why. should my sons be exposed to death. threats from some disgusting troll and. it's interesting with the process it's. been over a year now and it still hasn't. come to court it was a clear and.

demonstrable death threat specific. to my son and me and to his mum my. ex-wife and it's like how can this be. allowed to happen and we're still a year. a year and a half later and we're still. no action against the perpetrator i'm. hoping there will be it's going through. the process but shows you the frailty. and weakness of social media that. someone can make a specific death threat. and nothing gets done for so long so. that's a downside of being. my you know when in the good morning. britain thing blew up all my sons were.

being abused on social media in the most. horrific manner by a targeted mob. of people normally who have the be kind. hashtag in their bio. while spewing vile abuse of my kids. simply for being my children they didn't. even agree with me about a lot of it. outside of losing people. when does pierce morgan cry. nafta. i mean really. the last time i cried was my.

grandmother's funeral 2013. before that. i remember welling up at a movie um i. was trying to i think it was it was a. movie that ends in a horrible fashion. with a young son being shot dead i can't. remember what each one it was um. i think it was paul tom hanks maybe. paul newman or something like i can't. remember the movie but i was at the. cinema i was watching it and. it reminded me of my sons. and when the kid gets killed in the kind.

of horrible denis montes movie i did. actually well up and i was surprised i. learned normally i don't well up at most. things because i think also as a. newspaper relative for 10 years you get. quite immune to shocking things. even if they're real in your world you. get immune to it you get used to dealing. with you know you've had to. cover stories like the dumb lane. massacre or 911 or. diners death or whatever it may be these. things are huge emotional things for the. country for the world. and over time you learn to be able to.

handle that and do your job so you. become quite tough. quite thick-skinned on the outside. doesn't mean you have to feel things. inside i do that's what i'm curious. about because reading through what. you've been through in your career the. ups and the downs i was like if i was. this man i would have had suffered with. anxiety pretty badly i think i don't get. anxiety do you ever get anxious no never. not really no i don't i don't get. nervous i don't get anxious i'm very. self-confident i think i'm pretty. self-aware which i think is really. important.

i'm i'm very aware of who i am what i am. how i operate. i'm also aware over time the things that. seem terrible in the moment very rarely. are. everything is survivable apart from. death or. you know some sort of terrible illness. that you can't get rid of um you know. the most frustrated i've probably ever. been was i got long covered uh last year. after i got the. delta varium so i had a week of very. high fever and stuff then got six seven. months of long cove no smell no taste.

endless fatigue no energy which for me. was like the worst thing you know i. broke an ankle the summer before and i. didn't mind that too much it was. annoying physically. i couldn't do golf and stuff like that. but i was able to function as myself but. when you lose energy it's a really. interesting thing i i found that really. debilitating and in a way quite. depressing you know over time as the. months went on because no doctor could. tell you what the cure is and i have. great sympathy with all the millions of. people out there with a form of long.

covert it's a very brutal virus even if. you've been as i was fully vaccinated it. can cause you a lot of problems. but as i sat there month after month. after month with the energy not coming. back and no taste couldn't drink my. favorite fine wine only drink terrible. wine because the sharp tastes i could. actually just about make out so you're. down to your leapfrown emotion. really awful pinot grigio as opposed to. my normal you know chateau la tour it. was a it was a difficult moment.

stop wallowing these are first world. problems and i am wallowing um. but it made me realize that if you've. got good health. you've got. a wealth really. far better than any actual physical. wealth that really if you've got your. health make the most of it i've got a. lot of sympathy for people who have. debilitating illnesses either mental or. physical that's why i always try and. debate about mental health to park the. two things i know people who've got. clinical depression it's an awful thing.

and they need constant help and constant. medical attention and treatment and. drugs and so on i've got great sympathy. for people in that position in a way. when i had the long covid it it felt. like i guess this sort of brain fog that. comes with it which anyone who's had it. will know what i'm talking about if you. don't you just wonder what the fuzz is. all about but you get this kind of brain. fog that sits in your head and i'd. imagine that it's on a much worse level. for people with clinical depression i. can kind of understand a bit more now. about what that must feel like but. that's not the same as feeling anxious.

about normal life stuff. it's the levels of anxiety completely. out of control so i don't get anxious. about things i don't get nervous about. stuff i get excited. i get that kind of adrenaline. excitement excitement nervous excitement. pierce morgan uncensored tell me then. why how are you finding your excitement. in doing this having had such a long. career what is it about this new show. that's exciting you it's brand new it's. starting from scratch i had lots of. offers to establish shows established.

networks around the world and i thought. you know what i like this idea i like. going back to work for rupert murdoch. he's been a great mentor for me in my. life he's 91 i dinner with him here in. la a couple of nights ago and he just. his brain at 91 is just staggering and. his extraordinary drive to always be. thinking of the next thing he's just. been down to spacex and was in so. enthused by what elon musk is doing with. that he never looks back he just only. ever looks forward it's very contagious. and he believes completely in free. speech and it's made him a very.

polarizing figure himself as it has with. me but he believes completely in that. and i find that intoxicated so going. back to where it started with the person. who gave me my first really big media. job uh with a global platform so no. one's really tried doing a daily show. that airs in the uk the us and australia. three different continents at the same. time and my gut feeling is the world's a. small place with debena that actually. we've got to a place now where because. of social media.

whether you're in sydney london new york. you're all having the same arguments. everyone's talking about the will smith. slap or ukraine and zolensky and putin. or trump whatever it may be it's the. same conversations the same people being. held around the world and i think what. people want to know is not what's. happening because they're seeing that. all the time they're getting an overload. of information they want to know what to. think about it and i'm in the opinion. business i'm going to tell people what i. think about stuff i don't expect you to. agree with me.

but i do want to challenge what you may. be thinking yourself i want to be firm. about what i believe about situations. and if you want to persuade me i'm wrong. come on i'm going to have people from. the left from the right i don't want to. be a partisan show i don't park myself. into the right or left at all. i think i'm a voice for common sense i. see it i don't actually think i'm that. controversial in terms of my opinions i. think anyone who read my book knows that. i think i'm pretty much on the side of. the 80 majority in most places but it's. going to be a challenge and it you know.

i'm hoping it will work i'll give it. everything i've got and it's a big big. challenge probably the biggest i've ever. had but i find that exciting i love. starting from scratch brand new studio. we built an ealing out of rubble. literally out of concrete slabs we built. this amazing high-tech studio um i've. just been on a global tour to australia. to america and it was so exciting the. energy that i was getting everywhere. about this it's a lot of. support from this massive company to. make it work but ultimately it's the.

wayne rescue thing maybe i'll miss. we'll see. but it won't be through lack of trying. and it won't be through lack of. confidence and it won't be through lack. of self-belief that i have that this is. the right show for the right moment. the public wants someone to cancel. cancel culture and because of what. happened with good morning britain i. became for better or for worse. a very public defender of free speech. and the right to have an opinion and. that will be the core of my show and. we've got to get back to that i think.

it's a war. and i think cancer culture is a virus as. deadly over time as a coronavirus it. really is the damage it can do to. society i think is extremely serious and. it's getting worse not better and i want. to cancel it and what could be a better. legacy than the man. who canceled cancer culture. pierce thank you um you know as you can. tell you know there's much we agree on. there's some things we don't agree on as. well i followed trump not because i. agree with everything he says but.

because i don't want to be trapped in an. echo chamber of people that are just. telling me things that i already believe. and there's this quote i read one day. which really resonated with me which is. if your friends have the same opinions. of you they're probably not your. opinions yeah but i would say my own. kids are like that yeah they don't agree. with a lot of the things they agree with. a lot of things as well but they also. understand the perils of this culture. that we're going down this slippery path. and they understand actually how. important this debate is. to get back to where we used to be with.

debate it is we have a closing tradition. on this podcast always where the. previous guest writes a question for the. next question ah they don't know who. they're writing it for okay and you. won't either but um the question that's. been written for you is. okay interesting so i don't ever get to. read it tony jack reads it slope in the. book what advice would you give to your. five-year-old. self. just live exactly the dream you're. currently dreaming.

good bad and ugly warts and all. find something you're passionate about. and at five i was passionate about news. i don't know why i can't explain it. but i was. and so i pursued a path of wanting to be. in the news. business. and it's been the greatest. journey. i could ever have imagined. good and bad. i wouldn't change any of it nothing so. my advice to five-year-old peers would. be yep go for it.

there you have it thank you pierce thank. you really enjoyed it appreciate it. [Music]. [Music].