NotOnTheHighStreet.com Founder: Rapid Success Lead To My Darkest Days - Holly Tucker | E92

early twenties i was diagnosed with a. brain tumor that was the first knock. down. holly tucker ex-ceo and founder of not. on the high street holly's story. is mind-blowing we go and pitch the idea. of not on the high street to. the land of vcs who would tell us that. it was lovely that us women. wanted to create a crafts website but. really there was nothing in it. and i just said well we're actually. going to change the face of retailing. funny enough. it's not craft website we tried to build. a marketplace with.

no tech experience but we knew what we. wanted and so we found someone. who built the technology that ebay were. building in america. and we just relaunched and we nailed it. how could i smile or laugh. i found myself becoming a different. version of me. one of the lines at hollandco is. bringing colour to grey and i think i. was turning grey. holly tucker ex-ceo and founder of.

not on the high street one of the uk's. most loved brands. but a real pioneer in its space at its. time holly's story. is mind-blowing how she rose from. someone that had no experience. didn't have huge amounts of capital at a. time when women in business. especially women in tech had it harder. than anybody else. she built an online tech company. that went on to be worth hundreds and. hundreds of millions. but her story isn't straightforward it's.

riddled with pain. divorce heartbreak turmoil. and having to reinvent and refine. herself time. and time again the fundamental life. lessons. that she shares today and that she. unpacks for us. are life lessons based on problems that. we're all going to experience in our. lives it's a real joy to bring you this. conversation. and i want to thank holly for her. openness her intellect and her. incredibly inspiring personality. without further ado i'm stephen barlow.

and this is the diary of a ceo. i hope nobody's listening but if you are. then please keep this to yourself. [Music]. i always start in the same place in this. podcast because i think it provides the. greatest amount of context on a person. so i i'm i'm somewhat sort of. bored of asking these questions but. they're so incredibly foundational to. who you went on to become. because everything from you know the.

start of your journey till now proves. that you are. clearly an outlier in every way so tell. me. below the age of 18 what were the. factors that went into making. that person that went on to become this. person. well um i was nicknamed holly hurricane. and that was because i couldn't. wait to get to the next stage so. when i um you know turned i think it was.

12. i persuaded my dad that i needed to get. a job in a pub. cleaning it so he would wait outside in. the car park at five o'clock in the. morning i don't think i'd do this for my. son by the way anymore but. he would wait outside the um the pub and. would um pick me up after my shift. i went on and then i just continually. worked when my friends weren't working. i um decided that you know i needed the. first mobile phone you know one of those. bricks. i think it was one to one i think that. it only worked in the m25 and.

um and so i was just continually pushing. it. to be grown up or to be out of childhood. i think. and so why um. because i was in i think and still am. today. incredibly excited by life i i really. wanted to juice life and i was. ready to work and i think work has. always been. um an incredibly important thing i.

remember at. 15 um becoming an intern. for publicist advertising agency um on. bake street. so as my friends would spend the summer. out in the. you know getting up to mischief no doubt. i would be traveling up to bake street. to spend my summer working and i did. that when i was 15. 16 and 17 and it actually and. ended up being on the day of my a-level. results my. mum waited around the corner and i went. for a job interview. on the same day i was getting these.

a-level results in the morning. and i got a job as the junior junior. team maker at publicis advertising. agency. ra and that i now call my sort of. university of. life um and then my mum got me in the. car and we went to pick up my a level. results. where i thought up until about a year. ago i got a d. in business studies i actually got an e. and. that was just ironic because that was. the moment. i started work i celebrated my 18th. birthday in the office.

and i've been working ever since i'm 44. now and. so i think that that says a lot about. who i was i was just so eager to be in. the big. wide world um i remember my parents. going on holiday. and i was living at home and i mean. again if my son ever did this to me. i just um rented a place with some. friends in halston. because i was working um in in bake. street. um and just moved out i just packed up.

the car and drove the car. and text my parents to say mom dad i've. moved out um. i'm living in holston which they weren't. necessarily. thrilled about um at what age i must. have been 18 yeah. 18. um so. that is how that has been me i was. dyslexic didn't find out. um for my exams i am. definitely someone who has to work hard. to achieve um and always been creative.

so that has been a constant in my life. i studied art uh at a level. and i created this huge sculpture that. they had never. had someone do before called tom dick. and harry. and they actually cast it in bronze and. had a crane pull it out of the. art studio and had to take the windows. out and that it's still. there today at my school um because i. i always go for it i suppose um. so yeah that was me you know but i'm so.

when we say before the age of 18. you know i was in an office at the age. of 18. um all my friends went to uni. um and as i said i did this university. of life thing. um that work ethic was it at all. influenced by your parents when you say. you're excited by life but. was there an example set by your parents. about work ethic. um i think you know i was always. fascinated by my father's. role he was a financial a cfo at general.

electric. and he traveled the world and i was. always fascinated with what he did. my grandparents all had you know their. own businesses. and i was fascinated by that my mother. had a small business. um when i was younger i think that. always. you know how we get our money was always. placed. um we didn't have you know. we weren't we were fine.

but money and where we got our money was. always spoken about. so i i very quickly realized you work. to live so that's what happens and so. if i wanted to go out i needed to work. for that money. so that has just that was always part of. me. so you know maybe that just led to me. just continuing to work. because that meant that you lived and um. so yeah so i i think that but my work. ethic you know again.

we were talking off air you know i give. it my my all. you know i lose myself in my work um it. is me. and so that's an interesting thing as. you get older so you you work at. publicist until you're 20 years old. i i yes i worked there until i was about. 21 years old and then i. got head-hunted to move to conde nast uh. meantime i managed to marry my childhood. sweetheart. again uh hurricane holly was in a hurry. uh so. i bought a place i got married um.

i need some more context here so your. childhood sweetheart you met him when he. was. we were 14 14 yeah yeah okay you're both. 14. yeah. yeah and we got married uh at 21. and um divorced by 24. and so it was an incred my early 20s. were a very very difficult period of. time of my life because. i had built up since i was 18. you know. i had built up this life in this world. and of course you get married then right.

and you know you're gonna have children. and you've got a property. in chiswick and you know you're all. there. and then sort of life pays you back or. gives you i don't say pay you back. that's the wrong way gives you an. interesting lesson. which is be careful to be in a hurry all. the time just because you want it. and you can get it doesn't mean it's. right and so. we found ourselves as natural human. beings developing in our personalities. and things. and realizing that we weren't destined.

to be together forever. um meantime i was diagnosed with a brain. tumor. and that was fine it wasn't fatal um but. it had a lot of side effects so at. quite a young age at sort of 23 24-ish i. was. dealing with a lot full-time job um all. these sorts of things and i again i look. at my son who's about to turn 17. i think all right wow holly you were. young. to do all of this so in my early 20s a. lot of things changed for me.

um and i had to slow down i had to. lose full-time work i had to become. freelance i had to concentrate on my. health i had to. get divorced um and so yeah and that was. the first. knockdown i would say i've had two of. those in my life um. and that was the first one and it was. pretty painful. you find out at 20 through 24 years old. that you've got a brain tumour. how did you find that out i was just. very poorly. i put on a lot of weight and.

i was uh just not functioning correctly. and. in the end um with all pushing it. because also also a young girl going to. the doctor and. pushing it with all the scans we found. out but as i said it was. it was livable with and um you know and. that's something. that's fine um but it caused just a huge. amount of turmoil and um that's not to. say i think. my marriage would have ever lasted. anyway but it just created turmoil.

and i now think back to how tough your. early 20s are. you know i don't think i would repeat. them um i think it's quite a difficult. age you're meant to be grown up you're. just still a kid i'm trying to work. everything out at the same time yeah. absolutely well especially you the. situation you'd put yourself yeah. exactly. exactly yeah but you just think the. world's against you. and now i just realized it was a it was. a great kick up the butt. and so you go into freelance work you're. you're separated from this partner.

you've learned the lessons there. hopefully yeah um you've understood the. situation with your health. yeah you didn't have to have an. operation no no you couldn't have one no. yeah i was i asked that particular. question because i actually found out. last week that one of my one of my best. friends has a brain tumor. and i and i was intrigued by the array. of emotions. that you felt in that moment and i asked. that question from a supportive. friend standpoint as how you support. someone that's. that's um found that out i think she's.

24. 24 and she found out that she found out. two weeks ago that she's having she had. a brain tumor and they put her into. an operation the next tuesday wow. because of the severity of the situation. so she's just come out of the. operation last night oh i really wish. her well i mean mine wasn't. you know it wasn't that serious so you. know that was something that. um i was very very lucky about. but i think one of the things was is. that i had to. find you know twice in my life i've had.

to find out who i am again. because when you pull your identity into. something. else that's not yourself or or it. becomes your identity. i think we all do that in relationships. sometimes you know that you are. married or you know that's what i did as. a young girl. so then when it all fell apart who who. who am i and that was a really. difficult moment for me and slightly the. thing that saved me was going back to my. creative roots you know. if i hadn't gone to the university of.

life i was going to go and do an art. degree. so creativity sort of saved me and i i. went on to. you know create vegetable wreaths which. again i just always think. you know the story needs to be sexier. than the vegetable race but there it was. and i i built this wreath and i went. down to my local high street to try and. sell it and i was just freelancing at. that time in publishing. but this was allowing me to be creative. in the evening why vegetable wreaths. though. um you know it it was just i needed to. be creative i love.

i love interiors and i've always you. know at the age. my 14th birthday present was a. subscription to the world of interiors. um so you know that has just been. something i have to have a creative. environment. to exist in so my home right now as a. shrine to not on the high street i had. to move house to get bigger and bigger. homes. just to hold what you know you can. imagine. um what i'm surrounded by and so um. that was just glorious for me you know. why not um. i just did it and then that was this.

path that just opened up to me because. i realized that i needed to sell these. things because i was going to obviously. become a millionaire. you know for reinventing the wreath. because that's what need was needed in. the world. and i realized that actually there. wasn't any local fare that i could go. and sell it so again. if you dream it up you can make it. happen so i created the first chizz at. christmas fair with 200 stalls so that i. could get the best store. you say that like it's so simple because.

a lot of people. a wouldn't even they would have had the. reef idea and never done anything about. it. and then when they realized that they. couldn't sell it anywhere they would. have never done anything about that as. well. but there's clearly something that. underpins that perspective that okay. well that doesn't exist so i can create. that and yeah well that doesn't exist. i'll create that to support that that's. my dna. that's what i'm doing now holly and. coats what i did at notton high street. i don't just because it doesn't exist. doesn't even bother me it's actually. just part of the fun of building i'm i'm. i love building i love it about the risk.

um well what risk because. um you know what was going to go wrong. there people weren't going to come to. the fair. i knew that they would i knew that. they'd like my wreaths because they were. good. i didn't see risk you know i i. i just went into it and i created this. event and it. kicked off it was amazing sold all my. wreaths. hated wreaths by the end of the thing. was not going to have that career but. now i was going to have a fair.

career i was going to put on events so i. quit my job. um and told my dad who's my. be my cfo not in the high street and his. cfo at holly. and co and just said right that's what. i'm now going to do and so i delivered. all the wreaths got rid of that out of. my household. and i then um created these events. and put on 20 events around london. with small businesses and that was. almost. you know again a pretty bad existence.

because i was on my own putting on these. events it was. you know pouring with rain one day you. can't control the weather you can't. control the football being changed you. can't do anything. but what it did do is it made me realize. um my total love. for small businesses and what they. create because i curated. all of those stalls and i could see. that there was absolute hidden treasure. that no one else had. discovered before and so the town hall.

roof i suppose was the prototype. to not on high street i want to i want. to. go back to something you said a second. ago which was about that moment where. you kind of lose orientation your. marriage has ended because i just think. so many people listening to this. either have gone through that are going. through that or are going to go through. that moment where they have a. significant life change. which completely makes them unanchored. from what their like. purpose is and who they are and um. i'm fascinated by how long that process.

lasted for you. and what advice you'd give to someone. who because i experienced it a little. bit when i like left my business. or actually the first time i experienced. it was when someone made me a really big. offer for my business. and then i went home that day and like. mentally spent the money and i thought. well then what who am i. yeah who now like yeah because your. whole identity was attached to this. business so you might say like. what advice would you have for someone. um that's going through that sort of. like loss of direction. because there's been a significant life. change and they they don't know.

you know who they are or which way to go. anymore well it's actually something. that now i have a word for. um whereas at the time it was a sort of. process. when i consult with small businesses um. and i i don't now do one-on-ones but. um in my book for instance it's called a. brand heart. and it's basically i believe that a. business has a heart. and everything has to come off it. you know that's the pumping organ that. everything should.

come back to now you as a founder need. to understand what should go into that. heart and it actually should be made up. of you. so i think what i did was i went back to. so what makes holly exist what makes. holly alive. and through that process which was about. a year. um and my second one which will come to. probably. you know lasted two or three years was. um creativity was one um discovering.

um creative folk um my. the my community who was i meant to. belong to. um building entrepreneurism um. all these elements were coming through i. was lucky. um in my life at the end of the first. this year. i actually met my partner who's been my. partner for 18 years and i got married. and locked down so now he's my husband. um so i was lucky to find somebody.

um and he did a lot of cheerleading for. me. you know sort of because when you're in. that place you don't. really um you don't have a perspective. on. anything that you can give anymore and. so i think that's another incredibly. important thing is to surround yourself. with people. who adore you and are willing to tell. you. what makes you um what makes the sun. shine out of you. you know what that is and so i was lucky. to have that.

but that brand heart like the who is. holly. just cutting it up into five pieces and. say okay if there were five things i've. got to concentrate on. to bring to restore me what are they. um but it's a pretty painful process. what role does patience play from. in all of that process well none at the. beginning i mean. zero patience hurricane harley i mean do. you want to mean. now i've got a little bit more you know. actually i'm enjoying that getting older. and just having a slight.

um listening more um. not running so fast um and picking up. the cues along the way. which i think i probably missed the. first time around so i'm actually really. happy. to become more patient i mean we'll put. it in perspective you know i'm. you know i i'm uh very ambitious so. but i am actually learning to listen um. to listen to the world a bit more. and even even though you've cut your. heart into five pieces there to dissect.

who you actually are. um that doesn't necessarily mean you. know the. the path as in in terms of like the. business idea that's going to get you. get you there or the career but you you. know the fundamental principles of what. you're looking for yeah. and then what you need to do like. experiment do something yeah just. well actually that's not what i did for. not on the high street but it. is what we've done for holly and co. because um. that was the you know that's the point. isn't it you. learn i you know from not on the high.

street holly and co i have learned i. don't want to do it all again. as i did but not in high street so i. don't want a final destination. when you take vc money on you have some. final destinations that you. you know you've turned right and not. left so always your course of direction. will be. to the right with holly and co what i. loved was. not not having that and also being able. to. um you know when people said so what is. holly and co. i could barely explain it i didn't have.

an elevator pitch. i didn't want to fall into that actually. i think that is the beauty of what i. was looking to do but i did have a brand. heart i knew that we had that i didn't. have the final destination but i have. the coordinates of a few places i know. to go. and i know that i am you know i know the. direction i'm heading i always call it. like an anchor you know i've got an. anchor in the future. i've got the rope that i'm holding and. that rope will change. change it will pull me to the right and. left but i am anchored.

um yeah and um and i'm enjoying that. that's what i'm really enjoying. so i've got a we've got to go through. this um this. uh not in the high street story because. i when i was reading. um about your journey up until this. point. and the experience you'd had in you know. working on you know creating a. a market or affair for for these small. businesses and then to go from there. to trying to create a e-commerce site. in the year that you did i thought was.

just madness and i think about. entrepreneurs coming into the den and um. one of the questions i always ask them. is like have you got tech experience. yeah who's who's got the technical sort. of competence within the team show me. what you know. yeah and from looking at what your. journey opened to that point you didn't. have any of that stuff. yeah no none how beautiful is naivety. well yes delusion it is awesome. you know i look at it you know before. when i was in it. in it you know i thought oh my gosh. there's so many things that we need to.

have done. before now i look at it and i think. could i just bottle up that naivety and. just take a swig of it. every single day you know naivety is the. thing if we had known. really that we were creating one of the. first marketplaces in the world you know. at that point in time. there was ebay and amazon amazon was. still selling books. ebay had you know your socks that you. got for christmas and the. you know the title was one two three. grandma's socks um. uh etsy hadn't launched yet um we.

were basically looking at uh you know. like many businesses start a human. problem that we were experiencing and. thought we could. create a solution and all we needed to. do was take all those small businesses. that were under my town hall roof. and just put them on this thing called. the internet and then wouldn't it be. great if you could. shop from you know lily bell and shop. from the letter room and put it into one. basket. well of course okay well we got 20 grand. so let's. build a website for 20 000 pounds and we.

found someone who could do that. big watch out there and funny enough. three days before launch. uh we realized that they couldn't do. that you know that there was no checkout. but because again there was no. experience we had already told the whole. world with a microsite that was counting. down the days to launch. and all the press that we were very able. to get. um that we were launching on this. specific day the third of april. so this 20 grand where did that come. from well the.

the startup um that sophie and i had so. i i. uh the story is that basically after. your local fare had a three-month-old. boy called harry um with my now husband. frank. and i realized that i couldn't ignore. what i had witnessed when you put a. group of small businesses together that. are like-minded. and bring together discerning customers. there's something that happens there the. high street was dying.

and i needed to do that but i knew i. didn't want to do it alone after your. local fare which was my fair business i. couldn't do it alone so i just wrote to. my old boss sophie. from publicis so she was my boss saying. you know. i basically don't think there's anyone. else on the planet that. has the into my yank you know is able to. rewrite the english dictionary. um and can be that person. and so i wrote to her and i still got. the email and it says.

you know i want to bring everything. that's not on the high street. together but i had a terrible beater. name. and uh 24 hours later she said yes. because she. was that customer too she wanted to find. the curious. the discover the small businesses and. things but i had a three-month-old baby. that wasn't going to stop me and so we. went on this. journey to build it and as i said you. know we. tried to build a marketplace with no. tech experience or retail experience.

but we knew what we wanted and so we. um pulled together a few savings. we were both with young children our. husbands were. working to pay for the mortgage um. we got a loan from a bank very small. loan and we remortgaged our homes. slightly both of us so i think we came. to it with about 80. 000 pounds thinking that we had. contingency in there. i mean everything and funny enough.

uh we didn't have enough money but we. launched. on the third of april with no check out. to our shopping site. um why was there no checkout well. because funny enough ebay couldn't even. build a. multi-partner checkout with one basket. you know. no one had yet actually done that. technology. so and i remember naively calling you. know. calling ebay just picking up the phone. to ebay thinking i don't know who i'm. going to get through to ebay hey hi is.

that the cto you know that stuff you're. building there's any chance uh i could. have it too. because we're dealing with a company in. cornwall. who uh has led us down. um so we didn't you know this hadn't. been built yet this this this. functionality. and so we launched we called it a press. preview. and we just pivoted and we were uh. on something called daily candy which. was huge at the time we were on the. daily mail front cover.

all this sort of stuff it was great so. we got all the traffic but no one could. check out. um but you know as mother lions that we. were. and i always liken businesses. to being a parent. something that in my latter years was. frowned upon. by the vcs because actually i do believe. that when you have that spirit of a. parent you can lift a car. off a child when you're a founder and.

literally you're launching a shopping. site with no checkout what are you going. to do. and so we found someone who in two weeks. built the technology that ebay were. building in america. um and we just relaunched and and we. nailed it. did you run out of money in those early. yeah yeah. totally we ran out money we launched in. the april and we're running out of money. in the july. um because funny enough technology costs. a lot of money. especially when it's never been built. before and um.

and so we had to go and raise money. and that was one heck of an experience. because if you want to take yourself. back to 2006. when we know one percent of vc money. right now goes to women what do you. think the statistic was. then so we would pack up our. personalized bags. we get on the tube no money for taxis we. would knock on the doors. with meetings you know that people knew. someone who knew someone. and we go and pitch the idea of not on.

the high street to. the land of vcs who pretty much. a hundred percent would tell us that. their wives did the shopping. in their household and that it was. lovely that us women. wanted to create a crafts website but. really. there was nothing in it and i just said. well we're actually going to change the. face of retailing. funny enough it's not a craft website. and. that continued right up until the. christmas.

and we were now paying our staff on our. egg credit card checkbooks we were my. parents remortgaged their house twice. uh sophie's parents uh lent us money i. mean it was. dark dark days i mean not in the high. street was definitely. on its last breath but the issue was it. was working. you know it hadn't been working up until. that point we used to have a bell that. you would ring. when there was a checkout of 30 pounds. and we were taking 10. and this bell would ring every second.

day and we were just thinking my god. this is. just hell but just as we were really. running out of money. the bell just kept on ringing it was. happening because it was christmas and. people wanted. great gifts um so that was an. extraordinary journey. but one that ended well because we found. someone who understood what we were. building um. and by the february 2007 we got our. first. round of investment how long did that. take to find that person.

so from when you realized you had to. start fundraising to the point when you. the money hit your bank let's say well. it must have been uh. eight months um but when we were. pitching it was just before christmas. and i remember just telling them we. hadn't got our first set of accounts yet. you know we were there and i remember. my father being in the pitch meeting. and um you know we were putting what we. were doing there. obviously avoiding the conversation that. we were paying the staff.

with our credit card checkbooks you know. like. everything is fine oh my gosh that you. know it's like every time you raise any. money the graphs only go. you know through the sky and how you're. going to do it. will work it out but it was an amazing. moment and uh tom tightman who was the. investor had just written the first. check for lastminute.com. and he saw what we were trying to do and. he actually. saw the power of female uh female. purchasers.

and that whole world and so um. we did the pitch and he he you know he. played with rc. he basically said that's great thank you. so much and we packed up and we left and. my father said i'm so proud of you both. knowing that not in the high street. just died that we hadn't got the money. and it was. finished because where our homes were on. the line it was. it was finished and just as we pressed. the bell for the elevator. he said actually do you have a moment. and he bought a bottle of champagne and. and that was it our destinies changed.

but that was how. close we were um but you know we. definitely turned right that meant. we got our first vc fantastic and then. um you know we started building not on. high street and. it was growing very very quickly. was it ever going to fail in your view i. know you came close but was it ever. going to be not at all. never isn't that funny never never never. you know at the same time that we were. running out of money i was buying every. single euro. for the whole world so we couldn't pay.

for the heating. so we had coats on between you know 9 am. and 2 that was the coldest period in our. office. and then the because the whole building. was being knocked down but we just kept. our office. so we had no boiler no heating but i was. still buying the urls. across the globe and and to this day. i think it's one of the most fantastic. businesses. um but never would it fail ever. because you know you as a parent you. know.

if your child had any issue would you. not think that you could overcome those. issues. absolutely and that's the resolut. resolute that you need. to be in business it's why i call not in. high street my first business baby. holly and co my second i love them as if. they are my children. um and they will get my my full. attention. what is your favorite flavor of heel. jack. berry my favorite flavor of fuel is. banana berry used to be my favorite. flavor and i saw someone tweet the other.

day they said. um because puel is now in tesco's but. the only flavor in tesco's is the. chocolate flavor. they were sort of demanding tesco's put. the um. the berry flavor in because that's. steve's favorite it's not my favorite. flavor is clearly banana now. those are the ones i look for the most. what does huel do for me i mean i've. talked about this extensively. but for me i get that a nutritionally. complete diet. in 60 seconds and in the world i live in. that is a that is a remarkable thing and. this is why. even before they became a podcast.

sponsor i was buying heel to my office. um every single week you know and the. funny thing is jack who's the director. and producer of this podcast. he tried cure once he was like yeah yeah. the guy is addicted to hill he's a fiend. for you now because once you see the. impact it has you understand the. convenience you understand it's. nutritionally complete. for me it's life-changing and that's why. hula is a bit of a it's a bit of a. cult once you try it you can't go back. you just said there that you know the. company was completely out of money but.

but i. i could tell that you also didn't. believe it would fail which is a. bit of a contradiction to some degree. but well because it was just money. yeah and you could you could figure that. out i don't know how yeah. but you know you know money is just this. you know okay so if we got the money and. the hard bit really is. doing the doing isn't it it's building. it so i always just knew. somehow this will work out i mean of. course you have your terrible dark days. but i knew it was going to work out how.

could it not. were you on to something and i knew that. that level of optimism in upon. reflection of your career of the last. you know couple of decades how important. has that optimism. been that just like unexplainable. unjustifiable. i don't know why but it'll just it will. all work out optimism because you've. also because because you've employed a. lot of people seeing the opposite. that sense of like catastrophe you know. that catastrophizing oh no we're a. [ __ ] you know that kind of oh. yeah oh man i've i've kissed a lot of.

those frogs. um yeah wouldn't you say that that's a. common denominator you find. in entrepreneurs 100 i mean even in team. members. someone so i've i it's so i say i can't. explain it enough. i one example i always come back to was. um. i was flying to brazil and obama was. speaking at the same time as me. um on the same stage as me just like i'm. speaking just after me. and i thought well obama's here i'm a. speaker he's a speaker. can't i meet him and someone that was.

working for me at the time went oh no i. asked somebody and they said no. sick as a [ __ ] if they said no ask. someone else and just keep asking. and then they're like no no steve we've. been asking and they just said no so. i'll do it then and i. i sent some emails and within. 30 uh within 30 emails someone comes and. grabs me goes come and meet obama. yeah and i just think there's always a. way there's always a way. and your life yeah and my life is. testament to this upset this like. there is a way or there's a way that's.

you know what i mean. there's a way where i have to work. harder you know what i mean and i don't. i don't allow for this other outcome. which is that oh no we can't. i've never allowed for the other outcome. ever. and it's actually my entire battery is. powered by that. and i am told i radiate it. so when you're around me you get hooked. on to that. and that's can be a really good thing. because it drives people in those dark. days when.

actually the entire world is telling you. no. and i'm saying yes and so. it's an amazing thing and i think that. optimism and actually. now as i said getting older it's. actually. i i would say there's optimism and now i. also have gratitude. that's powering my battery you know i. worked out my 40th birthday i have 29. 000 days on this planet. because i'm and as another golden thread. that i'm sure you recognize as. efficiency. i'm freaking addicted to it so i needed.

to know. so you know this life i just need to. schedule this a bit. so you know so i've got 29 000 days oh. [ __ ] it's not 29 000 days it's 14. 000 days because i'm 40 right okay and. so. that has also led to a countdown till i. die. so that also has fueled this optimism. and and [ __ ] it mentality. because if today i am going to change. the world which i can.

it's even fueled even in in a better way. actually i didn't have that. not in the high street because that was. just you know fire fighting and. optimum was that that that that fuel. but now i think i have gratitude. powering that even more and that's been. in a beautiful beautiful stage of my. life. that is amazing and you're right you so. you're you're in survival mode and now. you're. now you've got choice now i've got. choice and. a bit of you know the battle scars are.

there and. i have an appreciation that you know i. can give everything and. all but i need to make sure that my time. on the planet. is also for me too because i do believe. i'm here to serve. and i've again i can only say that now. in hindsight. but if i am here to serve i need to also. serve myself. that sense of by the way i completely um. resonate with. this um this focus on the amount of time.

we have left i wrote about it in my book. at very. long length and you i think somewhere. behind me there's a little sand timer. somewhere on there there's usually a. sound timer i don't know it seems to. walk around but because i wrote about it. in my book at such length people started. buying sound timers. and and uploading them online and the. whole point of the sound timers it's one. of the things that really allows me. it reminds me of time it's like one of. the ways we can see time happening. just by turning it you see your life. moving away. and it's that important reminder just.

like get on with it and focus on what. matters. you mentioned um you now feel like. you're here to serve. do you think that comes from. understanding your own power. yeah i think so i think so i. i would have found that really difficult. to tell you. 20 years ago but now um. i have been through it and done it. and i also know that my optimism helps. people.

and i can see the effects and i can see. you know what we. brought up and not in the high street. was full of it you know i used to have. people come in to the. office um from other businesses that we. would hire. they literally could feel it in the air. they were uncomfortable with it. it was optimistic it was creative it was. emotional. and they were like this place is so. emotional and i'm like yeah. and they're like uh we need to stop that. and i'm like. we're never stopping that and i think.

that that's. what i've realized is that that is what. i can muster up you know i. i listen to one of my favorite songs is. cloud busting by kate bush. and when i listen to that song i feel. like i'm whipping up a storm. and that is my power but what i try and. whip up. is very positive and good for the soul. good for small businesses good for and. what are small businesses they're. founders with dreams you know. i love that and so um.

that is why i've writ potentially that. is now. my job description um for the rest of my. life. is to build something that i can pour. that in. and be efficient and so amplify it so. not build an empire. but be really smart and amplify that. feeling. out to other people and help them. there's an irony in that that you're. talking about whipping up a storm and. your nickname's hurricane holly. yeah actually i've never even said that.

before and so yes i like that link that. just happened there. slightly different meaning now it's not. necessarily about urgency and more about. i guess just. power but yes exactly yeah yeah two. different weather. types yeah yeah so take me back so that. you start. not on the high street it starts moving. you've got the vc money things. you know team is small things are agile. typically the most fun times yeah yeah. the team was small um myself sophie.

i hired my sister um who was just going. to help me out for a summer. uh she still works for me at holly and. co so that's been a good. 16 17 years that we've worked together. now um. hired then her university friend her. university friend came and coded the. site. that but you know it's that beautiful. moment that you're just literally do you. have a pulse and do you breathe. okay would you like to come and work for. us you know i was talking to somebody. the other day. um and he said it's that wonderful.

naivety where you get in a car in the. cab and the taxi driver is really really. chatty. and so you almost go and offer them a. job because it's just. this moment where you need soldiers you. know that's that time isn't it. you don't need the skill we need power. and. um we need energy and we need commitment. and we need you not to have a high. salary. that's the that's that moment in time. and so that was what it was and you know. we were growing at 2 000. we were trying to keep up with it i call. it like that speed train with all the.

nuts and bolts of flying off and you're. you're at the driving seat and there. you're going. and as you said with optimism that. energy is just infectious. and so we just were growing. so rapidly so we were going from. a hundred thousand pounds ttv to. a million the next year to two and a. half million. to six million now keeping up with that. and also remember. in a marketplace you have two clients.

yeah i always laugh at people that. moan about having one client like try to. you know you've got. your customers and you've got all the. small businesses which by the way. you are only as great as their ability. to keep up with 2 000 growth. some of them are growing at 5 000. because they're the hot product. and so it's that coaching of that group. of people to keep. up with you meanwhile you know the swan. to the customers and the swan to the uh. partners which we called them partners.

from day one you know they weren't. sellers we were only as great as they. they were. and that was that beautiful shift that. we were creating in this world. we were we were respecting small. businesses they would get a media pack. that cost us way too much i think about. five pounds per thing. but we wanted them to know how talented. they were. we curated from day one which now. you know uh is a word we use a lot back. then. it was not a word you know why aren't. you accepting everybody.

and we would be no we're turning away 90. percent of everyone that joins even. though they're paying adjoining fee and. we're eating baked beans and worrying. about the mortgage. we're not getting paid a salary we will. turn away 90. because one day our brand will thank us. for it. and it did it very very much did. you talk there about hiring and that. flipping hiring process at the start. which i know very well and i i've joked. about on this podcast before like. walking into pride and the guy selling. the bags was like jonathan a director i.

was like yeah. and then like i had some guy on facebook. he's called ash one of my good friends. now and he even laughs about it he was. on job seekers allowance he'd never done. a job in his life. i made a marketing director and i was 18. and i was just like [ __ ] it you know. like. yeah but you're like what's the worst i. don't think i think this could work. out right imagine if it does work out. that the taxi driver. is going to be amazing funny enough. it doesn't necessarily work out that way. almost never. so but it's just i think the interview. process when you're that naive is. literally would you work for me. and they go yep fine you've got the job.

yeah or is there salary. low enough that's actually double bonus. yeah. yeah absolutely yeah it's it's a crazy. thing the hiring process has been. again on reflection something i'm. learning right now to do. is that would probably be one of the. most beautiful points of building holly. and co is my team and investing. heavily in the development of each one. of the souls that i think. are life is with me now not on the high.

street it was the soldiers you needed. the energy and then you get into the. next stage don't you where. actually those people by very nature. can't stay with the business because now. you need skill. and there's that awful moment where. you're having to let people go for the. first time. and bring in skill and to bringing skill. you now need to interview don't you and. you now need to be able to know even. what the skill is that you're even. looking for. as you're running at 200 miles an hour. and then it goes into that's next stage.

where you're now looking for the people. to run the people. who you've just hired you know and that. process for me. was not something i could spend enough. time on i mean we interviewed. absolutely everybody until the point. that we had a c-suite. and um i always remember my father. saying. that 90 of my role as ceo. should have been the people. 90 of my role was not the people because. how on earth could it be. i mean you know you were the next race.

was happening or we were going. international or. you know we've decided to double the. company in a year. and now on reflection when i look at. that oh. it's the people so with holly and co. i've now got a good group of people. that i believe are life as and i'm happy. to say that because what i. believe is that they don't even know how. great they are and i'm going to shine. their diamond. until it completely shines and that's.

dealing with their personal side. that's dealing with their professional. skills that's dealing with their whole. self. um and that is something i'm fascinated. by. and i think i'm potentially going to. build one of the most incredible teams. um that i've ever. been lucky enough to manage and you've. learned those people i just everything. you said then i'm not i just agree with. it all. i agree with every single word because i. went through the same exactly the same. journey of. hiring anybody bringing in skill.

bringing in a bunch of people that had. done this job for 20 years to tell me. what to do and i got out the way. and i let them run the team and do all. the hiring for me but then i also had. the reflection three four years in that. in fact this whole time what i actually. was was a recruitment company. and that was my sole responsibility yeah. and then you look at all the people. there and you. go to the kitchen that i i would and i. would. you'd be getting a cup of tea and i. wouldn't know the person to my left. how terrible is that and also that you.

realize when you get that c-suite in. because that's what we need to do. because we've now got vcs and we need to. get the. the huge company cos and the cfos and. all the seas. um i call it um in. that they just then recruit the carbon. copies of themselves. so suddenly you've got an entire. organization of many. you know of those people and actually my. gosh suddenly. the pendulum swings so for not in the. high street remember.

we always used to say you know we've got. our marketplace hat on one day. so that is about trading the site and. understanding what customers need and. then we've got our retail hat on. which is the brand because we're not in. the high street we're not ebay we're not. amazon. we are not on the high street we are. that beautiful mix. because we know our customer and so. that was very interesting because. actually what you need and require. to be able to curate unique products and. unique companies. is creativity eyeballs taste.

all these things that are unable to. excel you cannot put you know. many times i've been asked can you just. please tell me the process between a and. z. of a great product and i'm like you see. you even asking me that my dear. means that you don't even understand. what makes a great knot in the high. street product. so that was the difficulty is that. suddenly you would get too much of the. processing. too much of the operations everything. was a meeting.

everything was a powerpoint everything. and that room for creativity and life. and entrepreneurial spirit. started being pushed to the side and. that was a very difficult period in time. you know. we were you know still growing so. incredibly quickly. um so it was a difficult moment to try. and balance. that state of growth and tech issues and. operational issues and funny enough hr. issues when you have enough people.

um with that need. to be what i call truffle hunters now. you know people that can. really find the most unique amazing. small business that will create. the next bestsellers did you find. yourself at war with the business you. created. um. i i loved it so again if i look at being. a parent. i loved it but i didn't enjoy them right. now.

you know i found them difficult to live. with. you know and that's what i would say. it's you never lose your love. you never lose the but actually what was. happening. was the process had become so big. that the core of what i loved. founder titus you know the duracell. battery. you know that is why founders are. unbelievable. should never be moved from a business. whatever should maybe take a new role.

that's okay because actually they don't. enjoy the role of the operations. but that sort of duracell battery when. you take it out of a business. you know it i'm sure you've interviewed. many people that you. something goes the customer even knows. it everyone knows it. and so that was that's just been a. brilliant uh. lesson for me but also a lesson that i. now pass on. through holly and co you know holly and. co is all about me being vulnerable with. the truth. and hopefully inspiring other people.

that when they're growing their small. business and they think they're going to. hire the next person that's going to be. the silver bullet a. there is zero silver bullets in business. but b. it doesn't work without you you know for. all your defects and all your faults and. all your weaknesses it just doesn't work. without you. and was there a moment where you. realized that you'd have to take a. different role. within the business yeah i suppose it. got to that point where. um 200 people five vcs i was chairwoman.

and ceo um and. things were changing you know i was. you know 15 meetings a day running to. the loo. with my pa who would then brief me as i. was in the loo. on my next meeting to go into my office. where it was already set up. to be countlessly doing board meetings. you know one board mini. team would finish and we'd be preparing. for the next board meeting. um and basically being.

at at a stage where. in any given day did i do anything. that i loved you know my new book is do. what you love love what you do you know. i brought up this business that i loved. but every single day did i actually ever. do. what i loved and there was that moment. where i needed to make that decision. um and it was a pretty. goddamn painful one where i sort of.

realized i'd lost myself. you know i was um i didn't look like i. looked today you know i was in the tube. dress. with the high heels on double spanx on. i was a she man you know i needed to be. that person i was brought up remember i. was 28 when i started i was i was. brought up through not on the high. street and experience. that's all my reference point was and so. i knew i needed to. dull motion and you know drive this and. be. this person and um and i think i was.

probably in reflection tired. of not being holly. could you feel it yeah yeah yeah yeah. but i didn't know at the time like you. were just saying i was just in the. motion i was a hamster in the wheel. you don't know any different you know. you just exist don't you and. your whole purpose is to fuel everybody. else and sort of you. you realize that when you're not there. things go off the rails and so. you have this sense of responsibility. and every night i went to sleep.

um i would lay on my pillow i would have. my son. as my responsibility i would have my. home i was the main breadwinner. of our home but i would have the. thousands of small businesses that if i. go wrong ever you know a lot of them 50. of them relied on that this was their. only income their husbands had quit. their job you know they were doing. million pounds two million pounds a year. like. this was my responsibility and the staff. were my responsibilities i had. this heaviness so how could i be light.

holly. how could i smile or laugh i you know i. i found. myself becoming a different version of. me. um one of the lines at holland co is. bringing colour to grey. and i think i was turning grey did your. partner know that frank. yeah yeah you know definitely knew that. we were in a catch-22 though you know. when you bring up a business. that's providing the only income there's. no way out you know. how how does this go somewhere because.

my ambition. you couldn't stop me i was on the. hamster wheel i could see everything you. know i always. have to be reminded what year i'm in. because i can see what the future is. i know what it is so why i just need now. need to make it happen that's the. the part so you know we we nearly didn't. survive a few times. during that um time you know being an. entrepreneur and having a relationship. is a very very difficult thing. because and having a young child you. know harry was three months old when i.

started not. if the nanny didn't arrive he was put. under my desk. you know i remember at the age of two he. was under my desk he had a dvd player. you remember where you actually put the. dvd and you open the screen and you put. the headphones on. what sits in ribena and i would just. sort of shuffle. them in there and there used to be a. program called mr british where she. used to talk about putting the baby in. the drawer when mr president that was. what harry was he was under the thing. because. being a woman and a mother no you know. the kid doesn't come to work even though.

i was the boss. but it was their mindset no we are tech. female entrepreneurs we have got to be a. certain. way um and so that was very challenging. and it puts a strain on relationships um. and so that has just been difficult you. know. you know the downs are very down dark. dark days when you're running out of. money. you've got to raise again but the. business is going amazingly. you have no choice let's do it again um. and.

you know your family takes a toll and. that decision to. sort of change your role that's not a. decision that's made overnight that's a. slow sort of grinding down and other. conversations up until that point with. the board and with. other people and with frank or yeah. there was i mean. it was a bit of a storm of lots of. things i can't quite. remember what was going on at that point. in time but it was you know. another christmas was coming up it's. going to be double what that. is coming in um a very full c-suite.

managing that group of people um. being at you know now vcs are really. waking up you know what we're doing. where you know i think we were at 100. over 100 million ttv. you know this was starting to become. something it was about. internationalization so doing it all. again but in other countries. and um there was just this point that. that. needed to probably not be my existence. in the future. so um ripped off the plaster.

and did it and decided to get a. seasoned ceo to come and replace me. um sophie had left the business at this. point a few years before. so i was why uh her children were at a. different stage of life. um were older than harry so again as a. mother. it's okay when they're little and she. gave me that great advice you know. don't worry you've missed his first. steps he won't remember. but when they're doing their jesus. season a-levels they freaking need.

mom and um and so. she you know i realized that i was. again i thought i could do it all and i. i just. now in hindsight in my father had left a. cfo. two years before that so i was sort of. on my todd. i was now this woman with this group. with these feces and um. you know you're always plagued with the. imposter syndrome and i think that.

i allowed that to ha you know. determine a few things in my life now i. look back thank goodness for that. because what i'm doing today i have. never. felt more powerful i've never felt more. holy i've never felt more. colorful i've never felt more of a. founder than i do today. and i'm in complete control. but when we go back to the story of the. two times in my life that i lost my. identity.

might i not rip the plaster off if i'd. known what i was going to go through. because i'm sure you've had people. describe it it is not funny. losing leaving your business if we. relate it to a child. how does a mother walk away from his kid. you know talk to me about that process. yeah it's a very very hard one i think. actually. so many more people need to talk about. it because i think it's like a bit of a. dark secret like. it's it's that thing we're all bound by.

certain things. all this sort of um our ego is at play. here. you know there's so many our shame are. all those points and i i wish. more founders spoke about this moment. it's your entire identity goes now now i. had built. i was just you know hi what do you do. i'm the ceo of not on the high street. really you know uh when you wake up in. the day. it's all those emails it's all it's all. that responsibility.

the pressure on your shoulders wake up. the next day. what do you do um. you just forget to even say you found. not you know you were the founder of. norton high street you're but you're. nothing. so i had a couple of years that were. maybe two three years. two years dark years where you know at. stages i couldn't get out of bed. um but you know when i had to do it all. again. you know i had to look at my brand heart. i had to surround myself with people.

who could raise the phoenix out of the. ashes. um but it was difficult you know i i. couldn't go. to events with small businesses i would. you know break down i would have to. leave. i i couldn't see people that i knew. i i couldn't meet socially with people. because i just didn't know who i was. um and it was just a very difficult time. in my life. how old were you at this this time well.

i must have been. uh 39. no forty fourteen and what you're. describing there in terms of symptoms. sounds. like depression that phase is actually. what i think it is sounds like is. um what what i think now i think it is. is grief. grief yeah i went through i went through. the seven stages of grief. i um it really was a loss. you know that was what i was and. especially as i'd always likened it to.

my child you know i had harry my real. baby. and i had not nice street now i wasn't. with my second baby. so how can a mother do that to start. with. what happens when i'm not there it's. going to fall and i'm not going to be. there to pick it up. so it was a very very difficult process. but as i said you know. i went through total grief i i i got. counselling. i surrounded myself with great people.

i instantly had to start building you. know it was the only thing i knew. in my head um so six months. later i my sister. uh was employed by norton high street. she left someone else left who's now my. other co-founder and we would sit around. my kitchen table. um i decided to ditch the heels so i. threw away every single pair of high. heels i owned. um today i'm wearing glitter trainers. and i have done for five years.

to really say that actually you can be a. very powerful knowledgeable business. woman. and wear glitter trainers and actually. this is holly. and so slowly i started peeling the. spanx off. the heels i slowly started rediscovering. who holly was. i had some cheerleaders around me who. would remind me on the darkest days. and i knew that creativity like it had. done with the vegetable reese. was there as my savior what i.

had to be is holly again and holly is. only holly i think. with a business within her you know uh. and. when i say business and what i'm trying. to rediscover with holly and co. and trying to put it out there is. actually it's not just business. i believe creating a business makes you. happy. and actually um striving for happiness. i think that when you can control your. own destiny you can. work around your family when you can be.

your most creative self. when you can answer to nobody when you. can dictate all of these things where. you live what you do. that is a real source of going for. happiness and. so actually people do ask me why are you. freaking obsessed with business holly. like. redefining business what is it about. business i'm like it's not about. business business is a tool and a key. business is just the thing the vehicle. to get all these other things and that. is why holly and co sort of had to exist.

i did say to my husband never again. you know because he couldn't do what i. mean it's huge the whole family goes. through. your storm you're whipping up but. my yeah. yeah oh yeah but when you give them. enough glasses of wine. and you can sell anything to anybody you. can definitely tell them. so my sisters uh carrie my actual sister. gabby who left not in the high street. and has become almost like an adopted.

sister but with the founders of holly. and co. they basically said you can't ignore. your bird's eye point of view that you. had that is unique to not in the high. street. you saw thousands upon thousands of. businesses. grow from nothing to where they are. today. because all i was obsessed with was the. common denominators the. they all felt alone and yet they were. going through the same thing. and i remember when we built not in the. high street. naively i thought we could have a.

consumer site. but i knew very quickly that they would. need a b2b site because as they were. growing. they would need the tools so i said to. myself well we'll build two sites when. we launched norton high street. obviously that didn't happen um. now that b2b site was on the agenda not. in the high street every year. for 11 years and uh actually now i think. that holly and co. is my b2b scratch that i've itched. but when you talk about business.

normally it's done in a certain way in a. 2d way. in a greater way and my plight was to. help the dreamers we have a phrase dream. dabble do. at holly and co i want to help the. dreamers become doers and i want to help. the dreamers. go for it and i want to help the doers. never give up. and so that means you need to give. business a facelift. and so that is what i'm trying to do is. create a bubble. an existence for these small businesses.

to live in. where i sort of with the my knowledge. have. created a world where i answer the needs. you know. you don't need to have a business plan. you need to have a plan. you know one day you might need to have. a business plan to raise money. but you need to have a plan and the. second you take that you pop that. balloon people start coming alive. and so that is why holly and co. was where my sisters say you can't. ignore that and that was the moment.

holly do you know how much knowledge you. have in your head that you need to share. and there's the this of service part. that came through. and i think as i rose from those ashes. as my wings became colorful. service was written on my back and that. has. now allowed me to put myself out there. as quite a private person but because. i'm of service. it doesn't matter what i feel it's what. i can do for others.

and that has just been the again that's. the fuel in my duracell battery that. just gets me up every single day. quick one i've recently made a purchase. i've bought myself a tesla cyber track. it's not here yet. they're still not to be delivered and. the reason i decided to do that i sold. my range rover sport and i ordered a. tesla cyber truck was because i want the. vehicle that i drive to be. run purely on sustainable energy and. that's also why we were so keen to have. my energy become a partner in this. podcast so we can. start talking about sustainable energy.

and one of the great pioneering products. that my energy have created. is this thing called the zappy which is. so discreet fits on the outside of your. home. and allows you to charge a huge list of. electric cars. including my cyber truck so when my. cyber truck comes. i'm going to put this on the outside of. my house and this. will charge it which i think is just. amazing this is britain's. number one best-selling solar ev charger. and it's beautiful and i can't wait for. my cyber truck to come just so i can. have a play with this.

you refer to holly and coz being a good. life business. yeah well i i referred to it being a. good life business but. i also want to abolish the word sme. you know i think that there's a whole. new language that even needs to come. into business. um and i'm not talking about businesses. who want to float on the stock exchange. i'm not talking about tech businesses. i'm talking about 99.9. of all um businesses in the uk are small. and medium right i'm talking about that. when the founders sat around a kitchen.

table in their slippers. and has come up with a great idea now. they find themselves with 50 people i. want to always remind them that they. were the founder. with slippers with that crazy idea and. that i. hear them and i see them and i feel them. and i want to create something for them. so the good life it sounds very personal. because um i. really you know i'm of service i care.

about people enormously. you know if i feel emotional when i talk. about it. um i want them to have the best life. that they can have. and i i really would live in gratitude. because i'm experiencing it and i want. others to. and i think i could be the key so. that is my power and so one of the. things i say to people is you know. they're not comfortable calling. themselves entrepreneurs. they don't want to be an sme hi my. name's julia and i'm an sme.

they don't want to you know so i say you. look you run a good life company. you balance your creativity and your. need to drop off the kids. and pick them up and have family life. and take august off right. with your ambition profitability growth. and your own little empire building you. know those are the two things that you. balance. and that's a good life you're not. looking to get nekkar island at the end. you've already and what i always say to. people is have you ever looked at where. you want to be when you're 80.

you know it's a lot of people don't by. the way no one. so if you want to be in your business. you know right now my son's working at. hollyon coast training as a barista. you know he was three months old he's. nearly 17. he towers above me as this strong man. that i thought i was going to [ __ ] up. definitely as a baby i'm so proud of him. he has his own business. you know that is the good life i have. brought up the next generation that. needs to understand entrepreneurism. do i i want to exist in a world where he.

could be by my side in the future. where these group of this team that i've. got can work with me for 20 years. where my husband where i take fridays. off and i go on a date with my husband. that's what my good life looks like and. so. that is where you know i can see myself. at 90 here. but i do ask people have you looked at. the future because you by looking at the. future understanding that last point. you can work backwards because it's.

normally not all the riches the. lamborghini. the the you know all that thing that we. we we. see don't we sunday times rich list you. know is that. is that really where we're heading or is. it a world where our mental health is. stable. we're with our family for as much as we. can get when our health is good. um where we're creatively fulfilled. we're changing the world even if it's. just your town. you're doing something and um and that. is why now people call themselves a good. life business.

and that requires as you say like a real. change in narrative because. instagram and that external voice is. telling you. build hire more people make more money. and and what i love about what you've. said there as well is you you're. you're centering so a lot of the when. you ask. a business um or their objective is a. lot of them. will fall into the trap of and simon. sinek talks about this saying we want to. be. the best or number one and just at the. very end of my time at my business.

i stood in front of all of my employees. in the office and said and explained why. um. why we we had to remove that terminology. from all of our. um from all of our internal and external. comms because. um those it views. life in our journey as a um. a finite game like we'd get to the. number one on the scoreboard but then. what then. and if and because there's nothing then. once you're number one or you're big or. you've made whatever there's nothing. then.

we try and shift the company towards a. direction where we viewed it as like an. infinite game where. um there isn't a scoreboard and we're. trying to create a sustainable life for. ourselves. and our company that could theoretically. last for many many many decades. and when you start viewing your business. and your employees in that way that they. might that they could be here for. 30 years all of your decisions are. different. and your goals are different but it's. tough when you have vcs of course. of course and so that's it's impossible. and that's what you you then. you know you're a chameleon aren't you.

and so you. you will behave a certain way. so with holly and co that's the. liberation i have. where i understand the value of raising. someone up to the highest point of their. lives. personally and professionally they are. rock stars they've never and they. they know that holly and co was the. reason for that they were set free of. anything they asked and they're going to. be there for 20 years and they're going. to grow. so many businesses neglect history as a.

really. really valuable tool you know what. you've done before and what has worked. and hasn't worked is. incredibly important um i actually do. value the the um the want for people. to become um sort of the. the champions i suppose and so. that is now the destination why i don't. have the elevator pitch. i mean who am i pitching to you know. what why i don't have the destination i. have an anchor.

that anchors my 90th birthday i have an. anchor which is my vision. but i don't have to define it yet. because i want to be around for that. long and how on earth we know as an. entrepreneur. you don't you can't tell me what's going. to happen next year you know we we ca. we can have a course we have her best. intentions and we can think that these. people are going to be the a game. um and so that has been the beautiful. point and that is the knowledge i'm. trying to share with this community.

trying to help them understand that. they're not. a cookie-cutter business they don't need. to be they shouldn't be. um and that that's what i'm hopefully. leading by example. for me a really pivotal point and what. you're saying there was either we had. this guy in my business who used to ask. this really annoying question when we. were growing. he should say um but yeah what's like. the purpose of social chain. and he was just asking me that question. like what's the what's the what's our. purpose what's our purpose and i thought. he was a bit. a bit of an irritant because we're. trying i'm just trying to keep this.

thing alive. purpose is paying you yeah it's making. sure i can. make payday this month then next month. and that was my purpose yeah. but they got to a point where i did. start to reflect maybe five years in on. like. what what is this what am i doing this. for. um and that's when i went away that i. think it was a christmas time. and i and i sat down and said what is. the what is the purpose of this company. and i came up with this www.thing where. i was like um. work welfare in the world these kind of. three components so.

the work we do and the standard of work. we do for our clients and. i broke that down into a set of goals. and values uh welfare was really about. the team and the family that were. working here. and then the world was the wider impact. that we have because of our existence on. the outside world. and again that broke down into a set of. goals and objectives about the. environment and about philanthropy. and that gave us all this kind of www. dot set of values and meaning in the. world. and that's the thing that pushed me. towards realizing that i had to make a. company that was sustainable one not. that one. not one that was driven for the stock.

market i. had lost control of the company because. there was. i owned a small percent by this stage. there was. board members that were triple my age. i was still the ceo but a lot of it's. lip service when you don't really have. control. right they want they need to keep you. happy because you have a lot of. influence over a lot of things um but i. couldn't steer the company in the. direction i wanted to and. you have different objectives there's a. lot of people. 95 of people in the board are trying to.

make money just more and more money. by any means necessary and you're trying. to be this founder that's got these. dreams and visions of beauty. and talking about purpose and values. yeah and it. it's just nonsense in that environment. and i realized. that's why i resigned last year i. realized that the way that i wanted to. take the business in was not possible. i no longer had that control because. starting at 21 giving up that control. you can't get it back. you can't and now you you have got the. war scars you've got the battle scars.

and then what's so fascinating and i'm. excited for you. is whatever's next you've had those hard. lessons. and potentially what you'll build next. is going to be your good life company. where you can start resetting some of. those things. rewiring for yourself and we're lucky to. be able to do it again. you know that's the amazing thing. but you know it's never do you care. still about the business. um it's still my baby like.

i remember i saw someone on a competitor. on linkedin the other day just like. they had like um they'd paid to. take us our name on um seo oh yes yeah. yeah you're just like oh you were really. looking for serious chamber. and i was looking at the new [ __ ]. yeah yeah and then you're. almost like who's not looking at that. yeah yeah you wanted to call someone yes. why is. yesterday there was a tweet on social. chains twitter and i was like and i i.

posted to the managing director of the. us i'm like yeah. someone needs to step in here and. clarify and i literally took a. screenshot i'm like i would. if i was there if. you know it's it's a interesting um. world that we're living in at the moment. i think what's beautiful for holly and. co. is we are we are right in the zeitgeist. of what people are feeling.

so um you know when we're all looking at. you know the freelance economy when. we're all looking at the changes. remember not in the high street was. built when the high street was declining. holly and co is here when we're all. valuing mental health is something that. we do talk about. um changing the world purpose our. environment all these sorts of things. and so that is what i'm excited about. because we are. able to pivot able to move um and we're. building something that is at the time. that people need it.

um we're going to have a lot of. displaced people. and they're going to need to be. entrepreneurial and they're going to. need to probably have their own. businesses and that's what i hope. we can do is provide them with the the. guide i suppose. and that's brings us to do what you love. love what you do. yeah yeah it's an amazing experience i'm. a dyslexic. so um writing. you know i remember not in high street. so if you had to check all my emails.

that wasn't probably great because that. meant that i definitely thought i. couldn't and remember she could. rewrite the english dictionary so it was. probably the wrong person but. right person at the time um i didn't. write until. four years ago when i started my. instagram account holly tucker. and i now write a post every day but i. would have to get my founders to check. the post. because you know i couldn't do it. and you know again they raised me up. they said actually you can write so fast.

forward. how on earth could i write a book so. during lockdown one. um i created something called sme sos. actually. for my community so i went live every. day on instagram. to try and demystify the news to try and. be there for them literally just be. there every 10 o'clock every morning. i'm just going to be here for you and we. can just do this together but what they. didn't know i was also writing a book in. the morning first thing. and it was one of the most beautiful. experiences ever. because people liked.

who i was and how i wrote and um yeah. there were loads of spelling mistakes. and d's were bees and all this sort of. stuff. um but it was a wonderful experience and. it allowed me in a book to. almost put down everything we've spoken. about today. bringing color to gray being passionate. your energy you don't have to be great. at the p. l you have to be great at being you and. we'll figure. all the rest out at another stage.

um that you are the founder that you're. the heartbeat. brand and purpose is one of the most. important things that you can. put into your business and so they're. micro chapters because all the small. businesses that i. uh virtually mentor don't have much time. so you can pick it up. kids can be screaming you can read a. micro chapter we created a. exclusive product range so every micro. chapter has a. almost merch that goes with it but. obviously all the 50 small businesses. that work with me.

actually do what they love and love what. they do which i just love that circle. it's a color book which was funny. because business books normally aren't. color. but of course it had to be color and. it's um yeah sunday times bestseller and. i'm super proud of it. and i hope that now writing. books will be part of my life until. that age that we speak about where i'm. gonna wear lots of jewelry. big glasses and drink lots of wine.

it's such a beautiful book business. books aren't usually like this they're. usually quite. exclusive in the way that they're. created and the way that they look and. then never color. so you look at it and think ah work yes. you know what i mean well that was the. whole purpose. for the creative bunch um that our small. businesses. you need to be able to love it and it. you know it needs to be. it needed to speak to you um and so many. it's been helping. so many people it's just insane and so. um. yeah it's just one of those moments in.

my life that i can't believe. i get to be this lucky and i i imagine. because the same with my. my book did you did you realize it would. be. that rewarding because the effort to. create it is oh. it's a lot but then when you published. and you got it out there and you felt. the wave of. inbound yeah i didn't at all i didn't. even realize. you know it's like everything isn't it. when you're doing something. you're not actually you're so fast. forward you're like oh i've written that. book i really hope i get another b.

you don't actually think about the. moment actually the book is born. you know so you're all you know up to. that point and then you slightly move on. you know you know and then the books. launch you're like. oh my god i've written a book look at. that person oh that was me. yes i remember that and because of. covert and timings and things like that. but the you know the process is not an. easy one right when the editor comes. back and goes. could you just insert that um thought. into that paragraph. thing you think really really does it. really necessary.

um and yeah so it's just been wonderful. and. and as i said having people the amount. it was shared it was as if it was the. community's book and that. i never explicitly said that to the team. but that's exactly what we wanted it. needs to be the book. that represented the good life. businesses. that someone was talking their language. and so. that has been uh really humbling what a. wonderful. sort of demystifying both book but also. conversation today it's been an. absolute honor to meet you and to have.

this conversation with you and you're. right you're one of those people that i. think culture really needs right now. someone that's been there and done it. come out the other side and said hear. all the things that are [ __ ] up about. the system and don't make the mistakes. that i made or fall into the traps that. i fell into. and i think that's um that's going to. liberate a lot of people but as you say. it's going to lead them to a much better. life so. i thank you for that because i think we. need more people in society that um. are willing to fight that fight and it. feels like such a selfless one even. though. it must be selfish to some degree. because it's giving you such a huge. sense of purpose. right yeah well i i can't believe this.

gets to be my life get to meet you. yeah i'm a big fan of this podcast can't. believe i'm on it. um i was just saying that i was so. nervous i've only been on a few i'm very. good at talking to others. i'm so interested in other people's but. i i'm not very. you know i don't do this very often so. um it's been an. absolute honor to meet you and i wish. you um your good life business in the. future. well i'm going to let you know and. you're going to have to help me maybe. yeah some advice. thank you so much.

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