No. 1 Sugar Expert: You've Been Sold A Lie About "Healthy" Food!

People say, "Oh, Alzheimer's is. genetic." Garbage. That genetic. component is only 5%. So, that means 95%. of Alzheimer's risk is environmental. Air pollution, microplastics, ultra-processed food. And a paper just. came out showing that sweetener. consumption correlates with dementia. And we think we know why. >> And you've not talked about this. publicly yet. >> No, let's talk. >> Dr. Robert Lustig is a world-leading. sugar expert. >> who's teaching the world how to reclaim. their health from the industry that. profits off your vulnerability.

>> 73% of the items in the American grocery. store are poison because sugar is hidden. in all the foods. For instance, there's. 262 names for sugar, and the food. industry uses all of them because they. knew when they added you buy more. But. the problem is that's providing people. with a dopamine hit, and that dopamine. is addictive. And that's when you. actually have a biochemical and medical. problem. And we have data to show that. ultra-processed food has been associated. with dementia, diabetes, cancer, every. single mental health disease. So, the. question is, how can you buy healthy.

food and not be tempted by the bad. stuff? So, first, if a food has a label, it's a warning label. The second thing, if any food has a sugar in the first. three ingredients, it's dessert. And. then when they go to the store, don't go. hungry. >> And what about exercise? >> Well, it doesn't really impact your. desire to reach for sugar. It has its. own metabolic benefits. But if you think. exercise is going to make you lose. weight, you are deluded. And we can talk. about that. >> So, with all of this in mind, if I've. got a sugar problem or if I've got an.

addiction problem, what is the remedy? >> I will tell you that this is one of the. things I did in my obesity clinic. So, the only way you're going to be able to. fix the problem is. >> I see messages all the time in the. comment section that some of you didn't. realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you. could do me a favor and double-check if. you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing. that anybody that watches this show. frequently can do to help us here to. keep everything going in this show in. the trajectory it's on. So, please do. double check if you subscribed and uh.

thank you so much because in a strange. way you are you're part of our history. and you're on this journey with us and I. appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank. you. Dr. Robert, good to have you back. >> Oh, my pleasure. >> I am. particularly fascinated by this term. hostage brain. I know you're in the. early stages of working on a book about. this subject, but for anyone that. doesn't understand, so when I look at. this word the hostage brain, I think of all the times that I've been. out of control.

And when I say out of control, I I. I'm going to let you define it, but when. I say out of control, I mean there's so. many things I want to do as it relates. to my health, my fitness, other aspects. of my life, whether it's avoiding eating. the cookie at 2:00 a.m. in a hotel room. somewhere, or other areas of my life. where I want to have greater elements of. control. What does What do you mean by. the hostage brain? >> All of us want to be in control, Stephen. I mean, it's the nature of. humanity. We want to be in control. We.

want to be in control of our lives. Unfortunately, many of us want to be in. control of everyone else's lives. as we've seen play out on grand stages. lately. Okay? Everyone wants to be in control. and the reason we want to be in control. is because then we can mitigate threat. When you're in control, then threat is. low because you're in control. Problem is. we're not in control. The more in control, the more a specific area of your brain. is basically glomming on. And that area.

of the brain is known as the amygdala. The amygdala. is. your fear center. So, also your 24-hour. century. But really what the amygdala. is, it's the point guard on your. basketball team. Okay? So, it surveys the entire court, sees the offense and the defense, and. has to make split-second decisions. Who's going to score? Now, a lousy point guard takes all the. shots.

A good point guard passes off to the guy. who has the best shot. A great point guard is going to be able. to figure out if he's going to score or. if he's going to pass it off to somebody. else. If you're in control, and. your level of threat goes down. But, really, your control is an illusion. You really don't have control. And the more you try to exert it, the more you realize you're not in.

control. And what that does is that. generates an enormous amount of stress. and an enormous enormous amount of pain. Now, that pain can turn inward, and we call that depression. And right now, 29%. of Americans are depressed. And 4.4% of the entire world. is depressed. These numbers were infinitesimal. a generation ago. And they're basically,

you know, just, you know, pushing up further and further. And the. reason is because of this. inappropriate illusion. of control. And it's causing an enormous amount of. pain. How do you mollify that pain? How do you basically deal with the. psychological pain. of lack of control. that you yourself put upon yourself? Well, we have loads of ways. Cocaine, amphetamine, nicotine, alcohol,

sugar, gambling, uh uh social media, internet gaming, uh pornography, pick. your poison. That's dopamine. Dopamine basically. provides you with a little bit of. pleasure on top of a whole lot of pain. The problem is. that dopamine is addictive. And so, when you apply a set of. pleasures to try to deal with your pain.

of lack of control, that puts you into a never-ending cycle. of consumption and misery. That's the hostage brain. >> What do I need to understand about. dopamine in order to cuz I think. sometimes awareness is step one in being. able to do something about a problem. that you might have. So, what do I need to understand about. what dopamine is and what it's doing in. my brain and how it's sort of associated. with addiction. to then be able to do something about. it, which I consider step two.

>> So, dopamine basically has two. functions. The first is learning. There's no learning without dopamine. Anytime you learn something, whether. it's positive or negative, it's because there was a dopamine. release. When you put your hand down on a hot. stove when you were 3 years old and went. I'm never doing that again. Okay? That. was dopamine that did that. Okay? And what it did was it went to. your amygdala and it rewired it.

That was a rewiring of your amygdala due. to the excitatory. neuro stimulus of that dopamine. affecting an area of your brain called. the basolateral amygdala. Okay? And it laid down and it set up a. circuit. And that circuit is still working in you. right now. Okay? So, dopamine is the learning. neurotransmitter. It can be for negative learning, it can. be for positive learning. Either way.

Dopamine is also, when it's going to. another area of the brain called the. nucleus accumbens, which is the reward. center, that is. a stimulus for reward. That is the. motivation for reward. That is, in. one word, foreplay. Okay? That is the excitement. The reason for continuing any given.

behavior. Okay? You get both. out of dopamine. Okay? And in short, small bursts in the right venue, that's how we navigate life. We navigate it through learning, and we. navigate it through. reward. You can't do it without dopamine. Dopamine is good. Unless it's bad. And as you know, everything in science.

is both good and bad. The problem is chronic overstimulation. of any neuron leads to neuronal cell. death. Dopamine is a chronic stimulator. And so, if you have chronic dopamine. being released, what's going to happen is you're going. to kill the next neuron. Now, that neuron doesn't want to die. So, it downregulates the receptors for. dopamine, so that it's less likely that. one dopamine over here is going to find.

the receptor over here to bind to, cuz. there are fewer of them. So, what that means is. more and more for less and less. And we. call that phenomenon tolerance. More dopamine, more tolerance. So, the. law of diminishing returns. So, you get a hit, you get a rush. >> It could be a sugar, alcohol, whatever. it might be. Pick your pornography. >> Yeah. >> Pick your poison. Doesn't matter. You get a hit, you get a rush, receptors. go down, next time you need a bigger hit. to get the same rush, receptors go down,

and then you need a bigger hit, and a. bigger hit, and a bigger hit, until. finally you get a huge hit to get. nothing. That's called tolerance. And then, when the neurons actually start to die, that's called addiction. So, tolerance is the start of addiction. And the problem is more dopamine, more. tolerance, more tolerance, more. addiction. >> So, people that are getting addicted to. unhealthy foods and sugars and those. kinds of things, what's like going on in their brain?

>> So, at first, the first time they tasted it, you know, whatever it is, whether it's a a Fruit. Loop or a, you know, uh candy corn or a. um. you know, a Frappuccino or you know, pick your pick your poison. Um. you you get this big, you know, sort of, you know, sugar bomb going off in your. head and you go, "Wow, this is great, you know, I want some more of this.". >> And what is that sugar? >> down the whole Frappuccino, okay. And. what you've done is you've basically hit.

your nucleus accumbens with a big slug. of dopamine. and you go, "Wow, that was great." And. then an hour later it's gone and then. you go, "God, I need that again.". Okay? So, the first time you got it, you liked. it. The second time you did it, you. wanted it. And the third time, you needed it. So, that's the difference between liking. and wanting and needing. Okay? Cuz liking we all do. And no one wants to take away liking.

Wanting gets into problems. because you can over abuse things. Needing is when you actually have a. biochemical and medical problem. >> So, with all of this in mind, if I've. got a sugar problem or if I've got an. addiction problem, I'm addicted to. insert poison, what is what is the the remedy? Just. avoid it for a while and then if that is. the remedy, what what's going on in my. brain? Is it fixing itself? >> There are many remedies, okay? And they can all be used in.

conjunction with each other. Ultimately, the only thing that's going to work is. getting those dopamine receptors back. up. Remember I told you dopamine down. regulates its own receptor. The only way you're going to be able to. fix the problem is for the dopamine. receptors to come back up. There's a uh. uh. a trend going on right now out in. Silicon Valley you may have heard of. called dopamine fasting. >> Ah, okay. >> Yeah, I've heard the word. >> You basically people lock themselves up.

in a hotel room for 3 weeks. Okay, don't. take a shower. And um you know, basically, you know, take the TVs out of the room and um. you know, try to commune with uh themselves and. with nature with no stimuli, with no. external stimuli in order to bring their. dopamine receptors back up. Particularly true of cocaine addicts. because their dopamine receptors are way. down because after all cocaine is a.

dopamine reuptake inhibitor. So, it's. flooding the zone with dopamine. Therefore, those receptors are, you know, down in. the sewer. Now, do you have to be that severe? No, of course not. But, does it work? Takes 3 weeks. You want to do it for 3. weeks? Yeah, then it works. Other ways, you know, you can wean. yourself off. You can do abstinence. The. And if you if you can do abstinence, that's a good idea.

Hard to do, especially when it's, you. know, staring at you and when it's. available 24/7 365 like sugar is. You know, it's everywhere. It's on every. street corner. >> When I when I fast or when I do the. ketogenic diet, I lose my. apparent cravings. >> That's right. Exactly right. >> Hm. >> And the reason is because no sugar in in. a ketogenic diet. So, you're basically removing the. offensive stimulus.

>> I was so shocked. I love those cinnamon. roll things. Not that I I probably want. every 2 years, but I love them. nonetheless. I'm like a big admirer even. though we don't have a relationship. anymore. And I when I did the ketogenic. diet for about I was on I was 4 weeks in. of not having any sugar and or. carbohydrates, and I walked up to this. concession in Cape Town with these all. these amazing cinnamon rolls that are. like specialists, and I looked at them, and there was zero part of my brain that. was interested in any of it. Zero part. of my brain, and I was like, "Wow, my. brain has been like rewired or.

something.". Just because I've removed sugar from my. diet. >> It happens. It But, it takes a while. It's not something that, you know, you. can turn on and off. It takes. a fair amount of time. I will tell you that, you know, this is. one of the things I did in my obesity. clinic, you know, on a daily basis was. getting people off their sugar. addiction. >> How did you. >> And sometimes you have to basically baby. sit them. You have to, you know, work.

with them and with the work with their. parents in order to, you know, basically. turn over the entire pantry. Because the sugar's hidden in all the. foods, you know? I mean, it's it's. There's 262 names for sugar, and the. food industry uses all of them. This is. why we are trying to get sugar addiction. and ultra-processed food addiction. codified by the WHO and by the American. Psychiatric Association as a bonafide. diagnosis so that we can get remediation. and therapy therapy for people.

>> One of the things that was one of the. most popular parts of our conversation. last time, Robert, was there's a section. where we talked about the different. types of sugar and diet Cokes and Coke. Zeros and all these kinds of things. You know, I if I'm I can see a couple of. cans on the desk over there where where. Jack is. in the darkness that I can vaguely see. And. these kinds of fizzy drink, they all. have some kind of sugar substitute. >> Yep. >> Are those sugar substitutes harmless?

>> No. Of course not. Um a paper just came out like 3 days ago. in Annals of Neurology. uh basically showing that uh. uh. non-nutritive sweetener consumption, so. diet sweetener consumption, uh. correlates with dementia. And we think we know why. >> Why? >> Reactive oxygen species. So, oxygen. radicals, uh little chemicals that are. given off from various substances that.

cause. changes in energy metabolism in cells. and also cause damage in cells. ROSs, reactive oxygen species. The. famous ones are aspartame and sucralose. Now, do monk fruit extract, do stevia, does. allulose. also cause reactive oxygen species? I. very specifically looked for data on. those, could not find it. But for. aspartame and for sucralose, the two.

biggest ones that are available today, the ones that are used in a lot of diet. drinks, huge amounts of ROS generation. >> ROS? >> So, reactive oxygen species generation. So, anything that generates ROSs contributes. to. uh dementia. >> Is the evidence strong at this stage? >> Yeah, it's pretty darn strong. I'm. actually giving a talk about this next. week in San Diego. >> I heard you've got a a new theory on the.

causes of Alzheimer's dementia that's. somewhat linked. This is it. >> Yeah. Can you explain that to me? And you've. you've not talked about this publicly. yet. You you. You're set to talk about it in a couple. of days, I hear. >> Uh let me uh take it back a step, okay? There is this organelle inside our. brains called mitochondria. You've heard of mitochondria. Yeah. For. the for your audience, mitochondria are. the little energy burning factories. inside each of our cells. What they do. is they take food energy and turn it. into the chemical energy that your cell.

can actually use to power itself. Okay? And that chemical energy has a. name. It's called ATP. Now, if you took biology in high school, you've heard of ATP, adenosine. triphosphate. The energy is in the. phosphate bonds. So, ATP. will give up its energy and go to ADP, diphosphate, which will then give up its. energy and go to AMP, monophosphate, which will then finally go to adenosine.

And adenosine binds to the adenosine. receptor and makes you go to sleep. >> Mhm. >> By the way, that's where caffeine works. It blocks the adenosine receptor, keeping you awake so that the adenosine. can't bind to the adenosine receptor. Okay? So, that ATP. is the currency of the cell. That's what makes the cell run. Anything that depletes ATP. is going to put the cell at risk.

>> Mhm. >> Okay? Because it doesn't have the energy. it needs to run. >> Yeah. It's like it's gasoline. >> It's like gasoline. So, what happens. when you start running out of gasoline? >> Well, you break down. >> You'll break down. So, brain fog, difficulty concentrating, irritability, and ultimately, all the way to. depression. So, the amount of ATP within any given. neuron. is the.

approximate cause of neuronal. dysfunction. that we see as neurocognitive and. neurobehavioral change. Now, how do mitochondria and how do ROSes fit. into this? Mitochondria make ATP. But every time they make ATP, they make. also make ROSes. There are 11 steps in mitochondria and. they all give off ROSes. Now, those. ROSes. are going to damage the cell.

They have to be gotten rid of. They're like. toxic fumes. They got to be gotten rid of. And so, we. have a pathway in each cell of our body. to get rid of the toxic ROSes. Okay? They're called antioxidants. Like. glutathione, vitamin E, vitamin C, host of other uh flavonoids. Okay? Those basically quench those.

reactive oxygen species. They go to die. If you do that, then the ROSes basically. just get funneled away and all is well. and the cell can keep working. But if for some reason those. antioxidants aren't up to par, if for. instance you've been eating. ultra-processed food and you can't make. your antioxidant complement, then the. ROSes feed back and what happens is. the ROSes are basically telling the. cell, "Hey, you're shunting too much.

energy down this pathway because. I can't clear them. So, there's too much. stuff. So, shut it down.". And so, what happens is that instead of. funneling the glucose into the. mitochondria to generate more ATP, it. diverts it and it goes off into other. directions like glycogen, which is in. the brain is not good, or fat, which is. even worse. And bottom line, your cell is now not.

energy producing like it used to be. It. is now been reduced in terms of its. energy capacity. What's that going to do? That's going to. reduce ATP generation. Okay, that's step one. Now, step two. There's this stuff called cortisol. Cortisol comes from stress. Cortisol comes from sleep deprivation. Cortisol comes from exogenous.

glucocorticoids, like steroids being. given to people for, you know, autoimmune disease or for uh. you know, other uh. illnesses. Okay? That cortisol causes neurons to. increase in um. metabolism. Causes them to burn energy. faster. Okay, so you now you have an increased. ATP utilization. So, you have a decreased ATP generation. Now, you have an increased ATP.

utilization. Now, you've got an energy crisis inside. each cell. Now, your ATP can't keep up. with the needs of the cell. And when. that happens, now you've got symptoms. Whether it's brain fog or irritability. or all the way to frank depression. Okay, now. step three. There are these proteins inside each. neuron. called.

amyloid precursor peptide, APP. Okay? It's a normal protein in all. cells. Every cell in your body has APP. It needs to stay in solution. And in order for it to stay in solution, it energy has to be applied to it in. order to keep it in solution. The minute. the ATP in the cell goes down, they come. out of solution and they start forming. um aggregates, which we call.

plaques. >> Yeah. >> Okay? And those plaques damage the cell, which then start an inflammatory process. uh in the cells next door called the. microglia in order to clean up the. process. And now you've got plaques and. an inflammation. And now you've got neuronal cell death. That's dementia. So, it starts. with an ATP energy crisis,

moves through. plaque and inflammation. to generate neuronal cell death. Well, this is problematic to say the. least. And by the way, anything that. generates ROSs. has been associated with Alzheimer's. Anything that increases ATP utilization, like stress, glucocorticoids, fever, autoimmune disease, also increases Alzheimer's. So, anything. that increases step one, anything that. increases step two,

ultimately leads to increased step three. and Alzheimer's. >> So, to simplify this in a couple of. sentences for someone that has no. scientific understanding, and we're. going to have to cut a few corners here. scientifically in order to to for them. to have a framework to understand it. How would you give me some sort of an. analogy for it? Maybe in the context of. I guess a petrol station and a car. >> Yeah. So, I mean, if we're basically. doing petrol, we're talking energy only. >> Yeah. >> Okay? So, bottom line,

your car runs on petrol. >> Mhm. >> Okay? The petrol comes in, that's the glucose, and the engine, okay, powers pistons, and the pistons then power an axle, >> Mhm. >> and the axle then powers wheels, and you go. >> Yeah. >> Okay? But, there are a lot of things. that have to go right for all of those. things to happen. Like, for instance, your energy they they the gasoline has.

to get into the engine in the first. place. What if you have. carbon deposits on your intake. manifolds? And if you have a problem with any one. of those steps, you're going to end up. with a jalopy instead of a sports car. >> I mean, that's what we're seeing in the. United States. Over 7 million Americans. live with Alzheimer's, and this is. expected to double to almost 13 million. in the coming decades. >> Indeed. >> It. >> Cuz we haven't solved the problem.

>> That's the mechanism. What is What is. the cause? >> Right. So, we know. we know that. the cause is environmental. Now, people say, "Oh, Alzheimer's is. genetic.". Garbage. There is a genetic component to. Alzheimer's. I'm not arguing that. There. is. Okay? This is thing called ApoE4. And if you have two copies of ApoE4. on your genome,

your risk for getting Alzheimer's is. nine times the general population. That is absolutely true. I don't. disagree with that. So, ApoE4 is not a good thing. I'm not. arguing that. Once upon a time in, you. know, evolution, having two copies of ApoE4 was good. because it meant you got fat up to your. brain pretty fast. But we don't need. that right now. That's kind of a uh. an old news kind of of issue. People who.

have double doses of ApoE4 are at higher. risk. There is absolutely no question. about that. But they can mitigate that. risk if they change their diet. Okay? They can eat a very low-fat diet. and and. improve their risk down to the general. population. Okay? Everything else in Alzheimer's. is not genetic. By the way, that genetic component is. only 5% of all Alzheimer's. So, that.

means 95%. of Alzheimer's risk is environmental. Now, the question is what in the. environment? Well, air pollution, ionizing radiation, microplastics. Okay? There's nothing you can do about any one. of those three. That's baked into the cake. You can't do anything about those today. What other things? Uh sleep disordered.

breathing, medications, ultra-processed food. Okay, what about ultra-processed food? Fructose, my favorite, you know, hobbyhorse. You know, the sweet molecule in sugar. Low omega-3s. So, no, you know, fish, uh eggs, chicken. Uh lack of fiber, cuz fiber suppresses inflammation.

Presence of emulsifiers. Okay? B vitamins, lack of B vitamins, particularly B6, B12, folate. Okay? Those things are all associated. with an increase in reactive oxygen. species. You can manage those. You can mitigate. those. Thereby increasing mitochondrial. function, increasing ATP generation, and.

preventing that cellular energy crisis, so that you don't end up. behind the eight ball and you don't lose. your neurons. >> When people. tell me that Alzheimer's is associated. with having a sort of energy crisis in. the brain. >> Mhm. >> I'm increasingly hearing people talk. about ketones. It's just It's remarkable. the. improvement in cognitive performance. that I feel when I'm fasted or I'm in a. ketogenic diet. Whereas if I'm in a if.

I've been eating a lot of uh. carbohydrates. >> Mhm. >> or sugar, it's like my brain is like. like backfiring. Yeah, it's stumbling. over itself. >> I'm not surprised. Yeah. The The food industry tells you, "Well, carbohydrates are energy.". Actually, that's not true. Carbohydrates inhibit energy production. >> How do you mean? >> So, there's this thing called a bomb. calorimeter, and there's this thing called a. mitochondria.

>> Mhm. >> They are not the same. A bomb calorimeter, you throw food into the bomb. calorimeter, it explodes and it gives. off heat. And this, you know, captures the heat, measures the heat. And that's how we know, for instance, fat burns at 9 calories per gram, protein burns at 4 calories per gram, carbohydrate burns at 4 calories per. gram, which is why fat is more energy. dense than protein or carbohydrate, which is how we all determined that fat.

made you fat. >> And the bomb calorimeter is also how. they determine if a bag of crisps or. chips, whatever you call it here, is 200. calories, because if you put them in. there, >> Exactly. >> it will release 200 calories of energy. >> Right. Cuz a calorie is that amount of. energy that raises 1 g of water 1 degree. centigrade. >> Okay. >> So, it is a measure of physics. >> Okay. >> It's a measure of heat generation. >> Okay. >> Okay? Mitochondria are not bomb calorimeters. They are not capturing heat. They are. giving off heat. They are capturing ATP.

No bomb calorimeter captures ATP. Mitochondria capture and generate ATP. >> Mhm. >> Now, turns out 35 to 40% of what. mitochondria generate turns out to be. heat. That's why you have a body temperature. It's from that. And so, you have never. you will never have a 100% energy. efficient mitochondrion cuz if you did, okay, you would have a temp body.

temperature of, you know, room. temperature, okay, and you'd be dead. That's not the way it works. Bottom line. That. transfer of food energy to chemical. energy. loses energy in the process. Okay? The bomb calorimeter can't tell the. difference, but your mitochondria can. Ultimately, it's how efficient are your mitochondria. at converting food energy to ATP.

The bomb calorimeter can't tell you. anything about that. So, these two phenomena, you know, the. concept of calories as fuel and the. concept of calories as generators of ATP. have really very little to do with each. other. And it turns out that there are. individual things in food, the famous one is fructose, but there. are others, lectins and others, that. actually inhibit. the mitochondrial generation of ATP.

So, they actually inhibit your ability. to turn food energy into chemical. energy. If that's the case, even if they have calories to program in. a bomb calorimeter, if they're. interfering with mitochondrial function, are they food? What is the definition of food? Substrate that contributes either to. growth or burning of an organism. Well, I just told you, fructose actually. inhibits. burning. Turns out, fructose also inhibits.

growth. It inhibits cortical bone. growth, trabecular bone growth, cancellous bone growth. Bottom line. People who eat ultra-processed food end. up shorter. We have the data for that. So, if a substrate that passes your lips. does not contribute to growth and does. not contribute to burning, is it a food? >> I guess not. >> I guess not. >> What is it then? >> It's a poison.

>> And how much of our diet do you think is. poison? >> Fair amount. Ultra-processed food is loaded with. them. Real food is not loaded with them. Now, you can still find them, but not loaded. with them. Ultra-processed food has, in. my opinion, okay, five things wrong with it. Too much sugar, which poisons your mitochondria. Not. enough fiber, which is necessary to suppress. inflammation. Not enough omega-3 fatty acids, which.

are necessary to build your brain and. conduct neurotransmission. Too many emulsifiers, which leads to gut. inflammation and therefore systemic. inflammation. And then we can throw on top of that the. food dyes and food additives, which are. mutagenic because they're, you know, petroleum-based. That's ultra-processed food. Ultra-processed food has been associated. with every single one of these diseases, including every single mental health. disease, especially dementia. As we now.

have seen, ultra-processed food is. specifically associated with dementia. And even diet sweeteners are associated. with dementia through this reactive. oxygen species pathway. >> The sugar industry can't be your biggest. fan. >> They're not. I'm trying to help them, though. You know, I am trying to help them. Last. year, um not too long after we had our uh. previous uh. session, uh I was the uh keynote speaker.

at the fourth international sugar. reduction summit in Atlanta, Georgia. You know, Daniel in the lion's den. And you know, like why would they invite. me? I am, you know, I'm their. conscience. I said I told them I I said, "I don't want to be your enemy. I want. to be your conscience. I want you to do. the right thing.". Okay? Ultimately, look, ultra-processed food's not going away. As much as I would like it to, it's not. going to go away. And I'm not even sure.

we want it to go away cuz we got to feed. 10 billion people by the year 2050, and. we're not going to have enough land and. ocean to do it. Ultimately, ultra-processed food. is here to stay. It is baked into the cake. But, the question is, can we make. ultra-processed food healthy? Right now, they're not. Right now, what's going on in the US, you know,

food industry is doing the exact. opposite. It's making food disastrously. disease-producing. The question is, could you change that? And the answer is, yes, you can. In fact, we've done it. We have been. doing it. Um 5 years ago, I started working with. an offshore food company, gratis, by the. way, no money changed hands. And so, they came to me and they said, "Look, we know we're part of the.

problem. We want to be part of the. solution. We know that Kuwait has an 18% diabetes. rate and an 80% obesity rate, and we. don't want to be the reason. We want to. be the help. Can you help us. figure out. how to make metabolically healthy. processed food?". So, I convened a. uh a advisory team of five members. and we worked for the next 3 years.

looked at every single. process, every procedure, every vendor, every ingredient, every product, sent. them all for biochemical analysis. to figure out what's going into the. food, what's coming out of the food, is. the food metabolically healthy, what has. to be done, how does it need to be. re-engineered. to lead to something that is. metabolically healthy. And we came up with a set of principles.

which we published in Frontiers in. Nutrition in 2023 and we call it the. metabolic matrix and we basically. collapsed it down to nine words. Three clauses, nine words. Protect the. liver feed the gut support the brain. That's it. Those three things. Any. thing that passes your lips that. protects the liver, feeds the gut, supports the brain. is healthy. Whether it's ultra-processed or not.

Anything that passes your lips that does. none of the three. is poison. Whether it's ultra-processed or not. So it's actually not the. ultra-processing. it's whether or not it contributes to. metabolic health. So then we started re-engineering. products. on in the KDD line and they have 180. items in their portfolio. We have. re-engineered. 10% of them, 18 products.

to become metabolically healthy and we. have tested them on people in Kuwait. to demonstrate their metabolic benefit. And they are on the shelves now. >> But isn't there a Is there a trade-off. there because those products might sell. worse now that they have you've removed. the the stuff that makes them addictive? >> No. So we didn't tell the public. that we were doing this. We just did it. And they just re- they just introduced. them to the public. and didn't tell them.

And they didn't miss a freaking beat in. terms of sales. and in terms of profits. But I mean, tell them. and it works. >> Logically though, it it the. the bad stuff often makes the food more. addictive. >> And that's why this is so cool. It didn't change consumption and it. didn't change. profits. And that's what they care about. Ultimately, they don't care if.

consumption changes as long as profits. don't. This can be done by other. food industries. We're trying to get them on board. And, you know, I have lots to say about RFK, but he has at least uh. uh convened a discussion on what's wrong. with ultra-processed food, and we're. hoping to be able to enter that uh. enter that conversation. >> RFK's the health leader, I guess. The.

head. >> of head of health and human services. here in the United States. >> You have a lot to say about him. >> I have boatloads to say about him, most. of which uh you can't print. >> What's what's your general opinion? Of of him and his role and what he's. doing, etc. >> I've been asked to serve in this. administration four times. And I've said no each time. And it's not because I don't want to be, I do. But it's because my opinion and his.

opinion would basically get me thrown. out after about 5 seconds. >> What's the difference? >> I wouldn't last a. I wouldn't last a second. >> What's the difference in opinion? >> All right. Fi- RFK has five buckets in. his portfolio. Food, I'm on board. Pharma transparency, I'm on board. Chemicals in the environment, I'm on board. Water fluoridation,

I'm partially on board. You could get the fluoride out of the. water, but first you got to get the. sugar out of the food. You can't just take the fluoride out of. the water or everybody will get Mountain. Dew mouth all at the same time. And that. would be a complete and utter disaster. Has to be done in a coordinated public. health PSA driven campaign with everyone. on board, including the food industry. and the medical profession and. government. >> And to explain that, there's fluoride in. the water in the United States because.

there's so much sugar. >> There's so much sugar in the food. You. wouldn't need uh fluoride in the water. if you didn't have sugar in the food. >> Just explain this. So, the the United. States put fluoride in the water. >> to stop dental caries. >> Which protects people's teeth. >> Which protects people's teeth. The point is that only half the. countries in the world have fluoride in. the water. The others don't. And the reason is cuz. they don't have sugar in the food. The only reason you need to put the. fluoride in the water is because the. sugar in the food causes the dental.

caries. Now, the fluoride reduces the uh. uh prevalence of dental caries by about. 30 to 40%. >> Dental caries. >> Cavities. >> Cavities, mm. >> By about 30 to 40%. Now, the problem with fluoride is at high. dose, it can be a neurotoxin. Now, the goal is for. uh public fluoridation to stay way below. that.

Now, do they? Not really. Sometimes they go above. So, normal fluoride concentrations when. you're doing it as a uh you know, public. health effort should be between .3 and. .9 parts per million. Sometimes it goes up to 1.5 parts per. million and at 1.5. it becomes a neurotoxin. So, it's a purely dose issue. But, one of the reasons why people are. screaming about getting fluoride out of.

the water is because it can be a. neurotoxin. It's not supposed to be in. doses that are appropriate. But, you know, people don't look at the data. Point is you could get the fluoride out. of the water. But, if you got the fluoride out of the. water and didn't take the sugar out of. the food, you know, we'd have more dental carries, we'd have more anesthesias, we'd have. more teeth pulling, we'd have more. sepsis, we'd have more dental abscesses, we'd have more soldiers dying in the.

field. It's a matter of national. security. So, you can't just do it. It. requires a, you know, coordinated. uh. uh effort. >> Is there anything else you disagree with. him on? >> And then finally, bucket number five, vaccines. I am a pediatrician. I am not a vaccine expert to be sure. I. am not an immunologist to be sure. But, I am a pediatrician and I know a. lot about vaccines and I know a lot. about the infectious diseases that those.

vaccines were set up to basically. prevent. And I have taken care of all eight. of the diseases that we have childhood. immunizations for, mumps, measles, rubella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, H flu, polio. I've taken care of all. eight of those and I will tell you right. now, when I take care of those, it's because of someone who didn't get. vaccinated. And when I take care of. those, okay, the chances are 90% that that. kid's going to die.

RFK has not. RFK says he can tell whether someone has. mitochondrial function dysfunction just. by looking at them. I'm a mitochondrialist. I can't. Ultimately, RFK's view of vaccines is um. shall we say his and his alone. And it's not shared by the medical. community.

Um and I will not be part and parcel to. 3,000 measles deaths. because of. a. a blanket uh. disdain for uh vaccines and vaccine. technology, which has worked beautifully. to save 154 million people on this earth. over the last 50 years. >> Yeah, you know, I didn't I didn't talk. about this stuff a lot. Um but. I was.

I'm pretty sure at least one of my. siblings was saved by vaccination when. we were in Africa and we had uh malaria. I think if I'm if I'm if I'm accurate. here, I had malaria, my brothers had. malaria, and I think I was the one that. didn't get the malaria vaccine, and then. I ended up in hospital at a as a at a. very young age with with malaria. I was. like hallucinating and stuff like that. Um. and obviously as a as someone that was. born in Africa, I I think you probably have a clearer.

understanding of the role that vaccines. can play in in good health. You know, it's it's it's um it's quite. concerning because when you when you. speak to any scientist like all of the. majority of the leading scientists, they're very. extremely pro pro-vaccine. >> But we we've seen both sides. We've seen. what happens when there's no vaccine, and we've seen what happens when there. is vaccine. >> And this is not to say that there can be. side effects to vaccines. Um the vaccine.

manufacturers and scientists talk about. those side effects as well, but the the. thing that I think people should focus. on is the net um, good that vaccines. have done. for for the last centuries in. eradicating illnesses and avoiding um, disease. And my concern, just to close off on. this point is, my concern is if there is. to be some kind of outbreak. anytime soon, we're in such a cloud of misinformation. around vaccines that I I worry people.

might make the wrong decisions. Interestingly, there was a measles. outbreak in Texas recently and RFK at. one point did eventually prompt the. federal deployment of mmr mmr vaccines. and expressed support for them um, because there was a a big outbreak of. measles in in Texas very recently. >> I'm going to tell you something now that. I have not talked about in public. I had uh, a half an hour with RFK on the. phone, one-on-one, back in December of 2024,

after the Trump uh, election and RFK was. starting to convene his uh, team. And I was asked to join it. And so I got a half hour with him. And I. will relate to you now. for your public so that they understand. what that conversation entailed. Basically, two threads. By the way, we're supposed to talk about. food. We didn't talk about food. We talked.

about vaccines. And here are the two. threads. First thread, there are three. papers in the medical literature. that say that vaccines do more harm than. good. And he quoted them at me. And I wrote them down. And I went and looked them up. afterwards. And indeed they say what he. says they said. That it's unconscionable that. vaccines do more harm than good and. we're giving them to.

newborns. Now, it is true that those three papers. do say this. There are 50,000 that say. opposite. Okay? Second thing he said, a woman gives birth to a healthy baby. That healthy baby gets a shot under the. skin and now that baby is not healthy. anymore. That's a tort. A legal tort. Okay? And you know, in fact, you could.

argue that that is a in fact a legal. tort because you know, duty, dil- you know, uh negligence, you know, all the way down to damages. Okay? What's the recommend- what's the. uh the remedy for tort? I said lawsuit. He says, right. But, that mom can't sue because of the. Vaccine Indemnification Act of 1986. So, that mom. basically has a damaged baby and no. recourse. That's unconstitutional.

Those were the two threads of our. half-hour discussion. Now, everything he said is absolutely true. And irrelevant. They demonstrate. basically confirmation bias. And. he's a lawyer. He believes in precedent. I'm a doctor. I believe in probability.

There's always a risk-benefit ratio. Unless you're a lawyer, in which case. there's only risk. And that's how he sees. the world. He sees the world as risk. I don't. I wouldn't have lasted 5 seconds. >> I think we both. on the same page in terms of making sure. people have. the right information as it relates to. probability. We, you know, everything we do in our. life is a factor of probability. Whether. it what I I got in a taxi to come here. this morning. I I understood the.

probability of that taxi crashing into. another car, but I decided to get in the. car and come here anyway. >> We all deal with these, you know, risks. every single day. >> I want to say on this on this point of. of vaccines that um there's obviously. it's almost but it's become quite a. political issue and there's two there's. two sides and, you know, one side. which is more of the RFK side is. incredibly skeptical. Um. and.

and they have their opinion. Then. there's the other side which tends to be. dominated more by the science. scientists. If I interview scientists a. lot, so I know that pretty much everyone. I've interviewed that's a scientist. would agree that um. you know, there's there are side. effects, but net net vaccines. are very positive. >> It it it depends on how you look at it. Okay? If you look at it a. through a public health lens, >> Mhm. >> Okay? The vaccines do more good than. harm.

>> And. >> And if you look at it from a purely. individual lens, then you say, "Wait a second. I didn't get the disease, but I got the. shot and I have a vaccine injury. Therefore, I have been subjected to a tort.". >> So, I would just like to close this. section by telling people that if there. is a health crisis in the near future, some kind of viral outbreak like we saw. with the pandemic, to make sure you get your information. from sources that are highly credible.

And those sources should not include. um they should not include frankly, they. should not include podcasts. >> No, they shouldn't. >> They should not include social media. They should in they should include. places like I'd recommend checking out a. website called Consensus. I have no. affiliation with them, but Consensus. allows you to type in a question you. have about health, vaccines, whatever it. might be, and it shows you what the sort. of peer-reviewed studies say,

and what the consensus is. So, for. example, I was I was using the website a. couple of days ago to try and understand. something. I typed in, "Does this. particular Is this particular thing. healthy or unhealthy?" And it comes up. with this bar that the team will show on. the screen, and it shows you how much of. the scientific research supports that. idea. So, it said like 70% of the. scientific research says it was. positive, it said 25% said it was. neutral, and 5% said. we kind of don't know, or or negative. And I think that's a really great tool. because there's so much information out.

there, and there's so many studies, and. there's one study that says this, and. another that says this. So, using tools. like that, I think is a much better way. to make your health decisions than. podcasts like this, or. um. TikToks, or Instagrams, or tweets. Because another thing I want to say is. you might not know this, and I'm just. speaking directly to my audience here, but you're currently in an algorithmic. echo chamber. And if you And if you want. to know what I mean by that is the. algorithm that you have on any of your. feeds has been personalized to give you. more of the stuff that either scares.

you, frightens you, concerns you, etc. And if you If you want to prove this, go. and ask your best friend, or someone. else, a member of the public to look at. their feed. I had really. I remember probably 2 years ago I asked. my best friend if I could just look at. his Twitter feed, and it was. completely different from mine. For one, there was no Manchester United, and it. was all Liverpool. But then all of the. information was completely different as. well. And so, we're living in these echo. chambers where misinformation, or you. know, things we believe is being. reinforced positively or negatively. So,

you need a strategy for information, especially as it relates to health. >> I couldn't agree more. The fact of the. matter is. these algorithms are designed. to keep you engaged. They are not. designed to keep you informed. >> Mhm. >> It's just that simple. Um the other problem, of course, is. confirmation bias. If you have. confirmation bias, you will only seek. out the information that reconfirms your. bias. >> And that's what's about to happen in. >> that's what we didn't used to have, but. that's what we have now.

>> That's what's about to play out in the. comment section whenever we talk about. subjects like like vaccines is. um there'll be a group of people who. have their own opinions on it, and. you're going to filter your own opinion, and they will go at war to confirm and. prove that opinion, and there'll be. another group of people that have a. different opinion, and they'll go at war. to confirm that opinion. What I what I. love. and hopefully what I think my audience. understand me for. is. I try and. I try and remain open. minded.

And that's like a really hard. thing to do these days. >> do. Yeah. >> I saw a journalist the other day, they. said they were trying to place me. politically, and they said, "We think. Steven is a political.". And I think that's probably an apt. description of my opinions because I. have. >> I would consider that a high compliment. >> It's an amazing compliment. I have. views, but I don't sign up to any. particular. like cult. That's where I'd describe it. And and you know you're in a cult when. your views 99% represent the person.

who's also in the cult because logically. that should never be the case. >> That should never be the case. I agree. Um you know, cults are part and. parcel of society, unfortunately. >> I've watched so many entrepreneurs treat. sales like a performance problem when. it's often down to visibility because. when you can't see what's happening in. your pipeline, what stage each. conversation is at, what's stalled, what's moving, you can't improve. anything, and you can't close the deal. Our sponsor Pipedrive is the number one. CRM tool for small to medium businesses,

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visiting pipedrive.com/ceo. And you can get up and running in a. couple of minutes with no payment. needed. And if you use this link, you'll. get a 30-day free trial. I want to get really practical, tactical. here with the person that's listening. right now, and they have me and you in their ears, and they know. that sugar is bad. They know. ultra-processed food is bad. They still are struggling with a little.

bit of fat, other sort of diseases. They're probably on that in on the. trajectory to some form of chronic. disease, maybe Alzheimer's, maybe. dementia, maybe a form of cancer. What. do we have If we're talking direct Let's. name her. or him. Let's call her Jenny. Jenny's listening right now. Jenny and. Dave. They're both sat there. They're the. average American. What do we say to Jenny and Dave to get. them to. change their lives? >> The first thing. that you have to say to them.

is. who are you? Do you know? Do you know who you are? Cuz if they don't know who they are, then nothing else is going to matter. They have to be comfortable in their own. skin, and they're not. The reason that they have glommed on to. ultra-processed food is it's providing. them. with a dopamine hit. And it's probably the only thing.

that even remotely gives them pleasure. And if that's all the pleasure they get. in their lives, you're never going to fix it, cuz that's. all they've got. So, the question is. sorting your priorities. At at the at the individual level, what's important to you? What's of primary importance? Love, relationships.

What's of secondary importance? Pleasure, food, drugs. Okay, if you don't have any of the love, relationships, stability. in your life, there's no amount of food. or drugs that's going to be able to make. up for that. So, who are you? What is it that really. matters to you? And until you answer that question. honestly and affirmatively,

you're never going to get past this. >> So, Ken, let me let me role-play as. Jenny and Dave. You've asked me who am. I. I am 30 years old and I work this job. I. don't The job's okay. I don't love it. It's not lighting me up. I'm single. I'm living in this this city. And yeah, I'm just, you know, trundling along. Kind of like on the. on the treadmill of life. >> And how much stress are you under? >> A lot of stress. >> A whole lot of stress.

>> open my phone, it's just all my emails, my work, there's this thing going on. with this person. I think my mom's got a. problem with this thing, and her health. is deteriorating. >> So, imagine what that's doing. to the ATP in your brain. >> What's it doing? >> It's depleting it like crazy. Number. one, you have mitochondrial dysfunction. from all the you ate, and from the, you know, unfortunately from the. air pollution you've been breathing, and. from the microplastics, you know, that. have basically taken over your brain. 1/200 of your brain right now, Stephen,

is microplastics, whether you like it or. not. So, Jenny and Dave probably have. more. Okay? And you eat well, they don't. All right? So, here we are. This is This is the the. substrate. This is the base. The question is, how are we going to. improve their. ATP generation? How are we going to. improve their mitochondrial function? How are we going to get those their. neurons to start responding properly? That's the question.

>> And do you aim at stress as part of the. solution? >> Yes, of course. You have to. How can you not? Let me give you another uh quick quick. clinical vignette. Recently, I uh had the opportunity to have a an. extended conversation with um a hero of. mine, Dr. Vivek Murthy, who is the former. Surgeon General of the United States. And we were in London together. And I. finally sat him down and I said, "You.

know, Vivek, I love your. you know, uh. espousing of love that we ultimately. need to love each other to get over. these. uh. systemic societal travails that we that. that love is what's missing.". Here's the problem. You can't love if your brain is. inflamed. >> You can't love if you can't love. if your brain is inflamed.

>> Of course, the reason for the inflamed. brain is the. ultra-processed food and all the things. we talked about, the reactive oxygen. species, the cortisol, etc., that we. talked about before. >> So, you're saying people that are. metabolically unhealthy, that are having. inflamed brains, that are under stress, have a reduced ability to love? >> Yes. It's exactly what I'm saying. They can't love themselves and they. can't love anyone around them. >> Explain the science there. >> Serotonin.

>> What is serotonin? >> Serotonin is a neurotransmitter. that is necessary for eudaimonia, for. being able to be content. Oxytocin is the love neurotransmitter, the reproduction neurotransmitter, the. safety neurotransmitter. Okay? The. cortisol. causes. the methylation of the oxytocin. receptor. So, now the oxytocin can't. work, so you can't feel safe. And the serotonin is necessary to.

basically suppress that inflammation in. the amygdala. that's actually causing. the. buckshot that we, you know, the the. inability to surgically strike like we. talked about before, being that lousy. point guard. So, I said to him, "You can't love if. your brain is inflamed.". And he thanked me and he. you know, I thought that was the end of. that and I'm not going to bother him. anymore. Two weeks ago, I got an email from Vivek.

saying, "I've thought about what you. said and I'm halfway through your book. and let's talk.". >> You can't love if your brain is. inflamed. I was just looking at a study. that says high cortisol levels in a mom. during pregnancy can affect the baby's. oxytocin receptors, meaning they'll feel. less safe. >> Exactly right. And it's epigenetic happens even before. birth. >> I'm trying to play out, so I'm trying to. form a couple of hypotheses here around. what this might mean in practice. So, I.

mean, in the case of the mother, if the. mother was. under a lot of stress. that resulted in cortisol, then the. baby's oxytocin receptors, which are the. bonding chemical of of hum- within. humans, the bonding hormone, is going to. be depleted. So, if I had a really. stressful. mother during. um. my. conception, whatever. >> During pregnancy. >> During pregnancy, yeah. >> There's a probability. There's a causal probability that I.

might be less good at bonding with. people. >> There we are. That's exactly what we're saying. >> But I guess also that can take place. after pregnancy, whereas if chronic. stress. >> a it's a continual process. The question is, can it be undone? And. the answer is yes, but with. a lot of work. And you have to have the baseline. substrate. to be able to do it. >> There's a bit of. What's the What's the term when. something becomes a little bit.

self-fulfilling where it kind of. >> tautology. >> What I'm saying is if someone's lonely, extremely lonely, and they are in a. single apartment alone, which is increasingly a lot of people, >> Yes. >> then. >> basements basements. >> Yeah, well, you even even in major. cities like London and New York, etc. So. many people living in a little shoebox. alone. Um and I saw the studies that. show the average person used to have X. amount of friends to turn to in a time. of crisis. Now they have on average it's. like one or zero. So, loneliness is up.

And then I also saw some research that. said when people are lonely, their body. goes into. a state where they sleep worse, they're. more stressed, they're they're more. bitter. to people. >> Yes. >> And I can't remember the term for that, but it's like it's like this heightened. sensitivity. And the thesis is that once. upon a time in an evolutionary context, if you were if you lost your tribe, you. would have to be more on edge to. survive. >> That's your amygdala. >> And if that's the case then, it means. that it would suggest that if you're.

lonely, you're higher stress. But if you're. higher stress, you're more likely to be. lonely. >> That's right. Which is That's the vicious cycle. >> A vicious cycle. That's the term I was. looking for. >> That's the vicious cycle. Absolutely. I. couldn't agree more. That's what we're trying to undo. So, here's a question for you. Quiz. >> Uh-huh. >> All right? And you know the answer. >> Okay. >> Okay? Cuz I've mentioned it already on. this podcast. >> Uh-uh. >> All right? You ready? >> Yeah. >> What is the difference. between loneliness and solitude?

>> Loneliness is. a lack of human connection, and solitude. is being alone. >> Uh well, both have a lack of human. connection. >> I don't know. Tell me the answer. What's. the answer? >> Serotonin. >> Okay. >> If you're serotonin depleted, you're. lonely. If you're serotonin replete, it's. solitude. You're comfortable in your loneliness. You're happy that you're lonely. Cuz you're not really lonely, you're. alone.

>> And how does that happen that I become. lonely and in terms of the serotonin. mechanism? >> Well, you choose to be alone when you're. in solitude. But the point is, that's. what you um. want. That's what you chose. You could. be with other people. You've chosen to. be in solitude. When you're lonely, okay, the reason even when people are. coming at you, even when you're at a. party, and you are clearly not lonely,

you feel like you are. You feel like you're there all by. yourself, even though all these people. are around you. >> What is serotonin? >> That's And that's because you're. serotonin depleted. Serotonin is a. neurotransmitter. It's made from a amino. acid called tryptophan. Tryptophan is. the rarest amino acid in. all of the proteins that we ingest. It's. the rarest amino acid on the planet. It's found in eggs, chicken, fish, not. exactly ultra-processed food. So, people.

who eat ultra-processed food at high. rate are going to be tryptophan. deficient, and therefore serotonin. deficient, are going to be somewhat. irritable and also somewhat lonely. And what it does is it inhibits the next. neuron. It. causes the next neuron not to fire. Instead of dopamine, which causes the. next neuron to fire. They are very. different. And serotonin, when it's at. normal dose, gives you a feeling of. contentment.

Not necessarily happiness, but this. feels good. I don't want or need any. more. >> So, it's almost the opposite of. dopamine. >> It's the exact opposite of dopamine. Dopamine is this feels good, I want. more. And serotonin is this feels good, I. don't want or need any more. >> And serotonin is predominantly made in. the gut. 90%? >> So, 90% is made in the gut. The question. is, does the gut serotonin get to the. brain? And the answer is through the. afferent vagus nerve. So, that afferent.

vagus. has to be functional and it has to. basically conduct information from the. gut up to the brain in order to be able. to transduce that. That is what we call. intuition. That is called gut feeling. >> So, I need my vagus nerve to be healthy. >> Yes, so you Yes, you do. And there are a. lot of things that are causing that. vagus nerve not to be healthy, including. all of the gut inflammation that we. talked about from the ultra-processed. food. >> So, how do I make my vagus nerve. healthy? >> Eat real food.

>> What about those vagus nerve stimulators. that everyone's banging on about? >> So, the the they're interesting and they. do have benefits for seizure control. Okay? For seizures, um the. vagus nerve, uh for some reason, transduces information up and down that. help mitigate seizures. No one's been able to demonstrate, to my. knowledge, that you can use a vagal. nerve stimulator to actually change.

emotion. >> I was looking at the research and it. says exactly what you described that a. meta-analysis and long-term follow-up. show a 30 to 50%. reduction in seizures for patients who. use vagal nerve stimulation. But outside. of that in terms of depression, the. evidence is. modest. >> Meager. >> Meager, yeah. Around 15 to 25% show. which. which is above placebo. So, it's small. And then with anxiety,

it's the same. There's not. There's only low-quality and small-scale. work. They do say that implanted vagus. nerve stimulators show the strongest. evidence for epilepsy and depression. But the bottom line is. it works well for seizures, as you said. And there's still a lot unproven as it. relates to stress and focus. >> I wish they worked. >> I mean, it would be an easy You know, you know, one thing you learn from doing doing. what I do. with this podcast is you learn that in. life.

there are really not many shortcuts. And. everything that appears to be a. shortcut, some device, some contraption. that's going to fix things, actually. either doesn't work, is a scam, or. has some hidden trade-off. >> Right. >> And so, it goes back to this really. important principle that I think. everybody listening should embody, which. is there's no free lunch in life. If it. appears to be the the fast way, it's. probably. a fast way to something else. And the. slow way is the fast way. The hard way. is the fast way. This is kind of what.

I've learned. Like, I can try all these. things to try and trick to try and not, you know, to try and be able to eat. sugar but be healthy. And there's always some. trade-off. Like, even Ozempic. >> Exactly. >> Everyone's talking about Ozempic. >> It's a band-aid, not a fix. >> What do you think of Ozempic? >> How much time you got? >> I don't know. Depends what you think. >> People ask me this all the time. Um I. wear three hats. Okay? So, I'll put my first hat on, my. clinician hat. I'm glad they're here.

These GLP-1 analogs, they do work. I'm. not saying they don't. They do. And God knows if you have a BMI of 40 to. 45 and you have tried everything else. and nothing else works and it's a matter. of life and death, then I am glad. they're here. All right, now I'm put my second hat on. My scientist hat. Okay, why do they work? They work in two places. They work. actually at that nucleus accumbens, which I mentioned before, the reward.

center. It actually seems to reduce. reward. It's one of the reasons why. GLP-1 analogs are not just being used. for obesity, but for alcoholism, for. drug addiction, for many things because they're. basically putting that reward system to. rest, which is a good thing. Now, we had a drug that did that back in. 2006, put that reward system to rest. It was. called rimonabant, uh trade name Acomplia. And.

what it was was an anti-. endocannabinoid. It was an endocannabinoid receptor. antagonist. It was the anti-marijuana. drug. It was the anti-munchies. drug. And so it caused weight loss. And it got released in the European. Union, the EFSA approved it in 2006, and. within 2 months of its hitting the. market, there were 20 months suicides. Okay? And the reason is because if you.

suppress reward, ain't no reason to get out of bed in the. morning. Okay? Now, the good news with these GLP-1 analogs. is we've been looking for the suicide. signal and haven't seen it. But, we also. looking for the depression signal. and we see that a lot. So, it does seem to be having the same. effect, Maybe not as severe as Romana. Ben, but nonetheless, that's a downside. for sure. Okay. Now, the second place it. works, GI tract.

It delays gastric emptying. It slows. food going through the alimentary canal, especially the stomach. Okay? That's why it works. Cuz you can't. eat more if your stomach's still full, cuz it didn't move it along. Okay? That's good, sort of. Except it. gives you all the side effects, the. nausea, the vomiting, the pancreatitis, the gastroparesis. Stomach turns to stone. 3.4% of all.

people who take GLP-1 analogs get. gastroparesis. And guess what? When you stop the med, the gastroparesis doesn't go away. And there is a lawsuit against Novo. Nordisk right now over gastroparesis. from GLP-1 analogs. Not so good. In addition, you lose weight. Okay, what kind of. weight? Turns out half muscle, half fat. Now, losing fat's good. Losing muscle is. not.

Losing muscle. is actually a risk factor for early. demise. Sarcopenia is a risk factor for. early demise. Now, what else causes loss of equal amounts. of muscle and fat? Starvation. And that's how the damn medicines work. They're causing you to starve. Well, that's not the best way to do this. People, also, only 1/3 of people who take GLP-1. analogs actually respond. 2/3 don't. They don't tell you about those. They're. only telling you about the responders.

And as soon as you stop taking it, all. the weight comes rushing back plus some. Because you've only band-aided the. problem, you haven't fixed the problem. Also, not such a great thing. And then. finally, let me switch to my third hat, my public health advocate hat. Now, I did say these drugs work. 16% mean weight loss. True. Okay? If everyone in America. who qualified for a GLP-1 analog got it,

that would be $2.1 trillion to the. healthcare system, which is currently $4.1 trillion. So, that would be a 50% surcharge over what. we're currently paying, and Medicare is. going to go broke by the year 2029. anyway, without it. So, you're going to put. another 50% on top of that? How the hell. are you going to pay for that? For a 16%. weight loss? Conversely, if we just got added sugar. out of the diet, out of the American.

diet, to the level of USDA guidelines of 12. tsp of added sugar per day, no more, we could get a 29% weight loss. and save $3.0 trillion. That's a $5.1 trillion swing. for double the weight loss and no side. effects. Which one do you think is better? >> Yeah. >> That's how I feel about it. >> There was um there was a recent animal. research study that suggested that.

things like Ozempic semaglutides reduced. cocaine self-administration. in rats by roughly 30% during treatment. and cut their drug-seeking behavior by. 62% after a period of abstinence. Which speaks to some of the things you. were saying there about GLP-1s and. Ozempic's role in the reward pathways in. the brain. >> Yep. >> So, >> It's interesting. >> It's interesting. >> Very interesting. >> But what is that saying? It's saying. that if you in these rats, if they were. given these GLP-1 antagonists, these.

Ozempics, these semaglutides, they were. less likely to be addicted. to things. >> Yeah. I mean, >> To cocaine. >> say less likely to be They're already. addicted. They're They're basically. choosing not to continue to consume. >> And again. >> We don't know if they're addicted, they're rats. But their behaviors. suggest that they're reducing the. consumption of the addictive substance. >> And what what is this suggesting? This. means that. the GLP-1 is doing what?

>> Well, number one, maybe the reason that. they're not consuming more is because. their stomachs aren't moving. If your stomach's not moving, you don't. want to take any more, do you? >> Maybe you do. >> Maybe it's that. We don't know. That's. one possibility. Uh there are no There's. no question that the nucleus accumbens. has GLP-1 receptors. Ventral tegmental. area has GLP-1 receptors. And I actually. gave a talk at the um California Society. of Addiction Medicine on Ozempic. So, we.

know what, you know, the the data show. We're still, you know, researching this and trying to. investigate it, figure out what it is. You know, it That also wouldn't explain. the alcohol story cuz alcohol's not um. food. You know, it's a it's liquid. So, it's a you know, it's a little. different. And it definitely reduces. alcoholism uh. alcohol consumption. So, there does seem. to be an effect. >> Understanding what dopamine does from. what you said earlier, it would appear. that then these like GLP-1s, the. Ozempics, are.

dampening dopamine's release in some way. because the rats, when you talked about. motivation um and dopamine, the rats are. less motivated to go and get more. cocaine. Right. Hm. >> And that very well may be a good thing. And for certain people, I think we can. absolutely use that. uh phenomenon to assist them. >> Is that Could that. >> That will be a good way to help with. drug interdiction. >> Could that also mean that I become less. motivated, period? >> Yes. >> Ah, that's not good. >> Yes. Uh that's what I'm worried about.

>> Going back to Jenny and Dave, Jenny and. Dave both have a little bit of extra. weight on them. We've talked about, really interestingly, the whole idea. that serotonin, connection, love plays. in a tremendous role, um, and stress. And so, Jenny and Dave now, they're. going to be thinking about their. relationships and friendships and going. to that run club as a way to help them. downstream with addictions and other. things they're struggling with. Is there. anything else that Jenny and Dave, who. represent a typical American,

need to know to maybe shed some of that. body fat? >> Number one, ultra-processed food. is obesogenic. Now, if Jenny and Dave are under stress, if. Jenny and Dave are under financial. stress, if Jenny and Dave are under time. stress, it's going to be really hard for them to. turn away from ultra-processed food.

So, don't expect their weight to get any. better. >> No, no. >> until they fix their diet. The one thing. I am very sure of is that if you keep. eating the same. don't expect anything good to happen. >> But it's hard. >> It's very hard. Some practical types of. things. The first thing is that when. they go to the store, >> Yeah. >> don't go hungry. >> Okay, love that. That's the first one. >> I make that mistake a lot. >> Right? The second thing. >> Why? Let's give some context there. >> Oh, because if they're hungry, all bets. are off. They're done.

>> Because they're more likely to reach for. the bad stuff. >> stuff. Cuz the bad stuff's calling to them. And by the way, the bad stuff's on the. end caps of each other aisles of the. grocery store. >> And in the middle? >> In the middle, oh, well, any If you've. gone into the aisles, you've gone off. the rails, because that's where the. ultra-processed food is. >> So, shop around the outside, which is. >> shop around the outside, which is where. the real food is. >> The fridges and. >> The fridges and the produce and the. meats and the dairy.

Okay? >> Mhm. >> Not to say that there isn't, you know, ultra-processed food and sugar hiding in. those places, too, but if you've gone. into the, you know, standard, you know, aisles, you know, that's where all the. ultra-processed food is hiding. And, you. know, 73% of the items in the American. grocery store. are poison. So, if you go into the grocery store, you already have a problem. >> So, the first one is don't go hungry.

The second one is. to stay. >> Stay on the outside of the. >> the aisle. >> supermarket. >> Yeah. Anything else for Jenny and Dave? >> And, most importantly, uh. you know, I don't want them to have to. read food labels because that's kind of, you know, Adam owns. Okay? But, they should basically, um if. a food has a label, it's a warning label. That's how they should look at it.

Okay? And if a And if any If any food. has a sugar in the first three items, the first three ingredients, it's. dessert. That's how they should look at it. So, you know, Chinese chicken salad. is dessert. >> I don't you know, the other day I looked. at my friend was drinking a can of um. Coca-Cola. >> Mhm. >> And I picked it up, and I I thought, "Oh, you know, I've not seen one of. these in a while." I looked at the the. back of it, and it said the sugar.

quantity in it was something like 40% in. that region. >> Yeah, so it's 39 g in a in a can, yeah. Yeah, that's right. >> I say So, 40% of it. >> is sugar. >> is just sugar. >> Correct. >> And people are just. >> There you go. >> No wonder. >> That's why we have a fatty liver disease. pandemic. >> And sugar's sugar's fundamentally linked. to things like cancer as well, right? >> Yes, absolutely. And we know why now. We know how, you.

know, through what mechanisms. >> What are the mechanisms? >> Uh for cancer? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, first of all, ins- anything. that makes insulin go up in- increases. your risk for cancer cuz insulin's a. growth factor. Okay? Secondly, because insulin causes. mitochondrial dysfunction. Okay? It increases these other phenomena, like. for instance, the pentose phosphate. shunt and the um. uh Randle cycle and the de novo. lipogenesis, which is what cancer cells. need to be able to multiply and divide.

Okay? So, it's basically feeding the. cancer. Number three, certain cancers, particularly pancreatic cancer, have an. enzyme in them called transketolase. And what that can do is that can take. fructose and turn it into glucose in the. cancer cell only, so that when you're. actually consuming sugar, you are. feeding the cancer specifically. Yet, what what do we give cancer patients. Ensure, which is like straight fructose. So, you are actually feeding the cancer.

So, that that that's like ridiculous. Okay? In addition, because fructose. interferes with mitochondrial function, okay? That sends a feedback mechanism to. the rest of the cell to divide. Because. dividing cells are in growth phase, they. don't have mitochondria. That's why. cancer cells don't have mitochondria. That's why fetal cells don't have. mitochondria. Anaerobes don't have. mitochondria. They grow the fastest. You know, provided that the conditions.

are right. So, bottom line, anything that. interferes with mitochondrial function. puts you at risk for cancer. >> And we're we seeing cancers growing? Is the incidence of people getting. cancer is it that's growing? >> And people getting cancer earlier and. earlier. Especially colorectal cancer. My god. Yeah, the mean age of colorectal cancer. used to be 50 to 55. It is now we are seeing patients with, you know, colorectal cancer in their 30s.

and early 40s. This is why. >> Because of because of. >> Because of sugar. That's a huge problem. >> It is a huge problem. >> So, that's what I would suggest Dave and. Jenny do to start. Okay? But, ultimately. they have to get their. sugar and ultra-processed food. consumption under control. And the question is can they do it. alone? Chances are, to be honest with you, they. probably can't. And the reason is because they're sugar. addicted. and because the food industry has.

basically made it impossible for them to. avoid. That's what we have to fix. We have to allow them. the capability of being able to access. real food. This is why I'm so upset with. what's going on with this. argument here in the United States over. SNAP. Are you familiar with SNAP? >> No. >> SNAP is the Supplemental Nutrition. Assistance Program, SNAP. Also known as food stamps. Okay? I actually testified in front of.

Congress, in front of the House. Appropriations Committee last year. to. fix SNAP. Now, to get soda off SNAP. Because soda is like the worst thing and. it's also the thing that most people use. their SNAP dollars, you know, their SNAP vouchers. to to purchase. And it's killing people. And so, I don't think soda should be on. SNAP. And so, what I did was I testified.

basically explaining the science, you. know, in Congress, and I said that what we need to do is. take the money. that by banning soda sales on SNAP. If. people want to spend their own money on. soda, that's their business. But, we. shouldn't be, you know, using a federal. government subsidy program to subsidize. their death. We should take the money that's saved. from the soda sales and utilize it to. improve the nutrition of those same.

people. You know, real vegetables, dietary supplements, fiber, water. Okay, things that will be healthy for. them. In other words, divert the monies. They didn't hear that. The Republicans. are trying to basically gut snap. They're trying to get rid of it as an. entity entirely. And if they don't they. can't gut it, they will basically make. it so that they take the soda away,

which is good, except it's not going to. improve their the rest of their. nutrition. Because they're basically just going to. take that money and re-pocket it. So, how you, you know, set these. legislation. agenda items up is super important. And. right now, this government's not doing. it. >> Just give me 15 seconds to explain how. you can build a viable business online. The people I see winning in life don't. have a perfect plan. They just take the. first step and then the next and then.

they keep going. They stay obsessed and. they stay consistent. And Stan Store, a. platform I co-own and one of our. sponsors, is the best first step to help. turn your knowledge into income. It only. takes a couple of minutes to launch your. business and start selling digital. products, coaching, memberships, or. communities online without any tech. headaches or endless setup. Thousands of. entrepreneurs, creators, and risk-takers. use Stan to take control of their. future. Because Stan is for. entrepreneurs, for those willing to put. in the work and bet on themselves. If.

you're ready to start building, join us. Launch your business today with a free. 14-day trial at. stevenbartlett.stan.store. The the messages and emails that you get. from people that have heard you on. podcasts or have read your books or have. seen your work in other places, what is. the the typical question that those. people ask? If you had to summarize the. question. into one question, what is it that. people ask you the most? >> Uh.

is juice healthy? >> Really? >> Sure is. That's probably the most common. question. You say, "Sugar's bad, but. isn't juice healthy?". >> Is juice healthy? >> Juice is not healthy. Fruit is healthy. So, what's the difference between fruit. and juice? The fiber. Okay, fruit has fiber. The fiber reduces. the rate of absorption from the gut into. the bloodstream. And in doing so, you reduce the insulin response, you. reduce the glucose response, you.

basically protect the liver, and because you've. prevented its early absorption, it goes. further down the intestine, where the. microbiome can chew it up for its own. purposes, thus feeding the gut. and generating short-chain fatty acids, which are therefore uh metabolically. beneficial, anti-inflammatory, anti-Alzheimer's. Okay? And the fiber acts like little. scrubbies on the inside of the colon to. get rid of colon cancer cells. So, you. get all sorts of benefits from the fiber.

in the fruit. But, as soon as you juice it, you've. thrown the fiber in the garbage. And so, all you now have is sugar water. So, eat the fruit, don't drink the. juice. Problem is, that's you know, what that's not what. the food industry is selling. >> What if I put the fruit in a blender, and then instead of throwing out the. gunk, I keep all the little bits in. there? >> So, what happens is that the blades in. the Breville or the Vitamix or the. NutriBullet or you know, whatever you.

use to make your smoothie, those blades. are shearing that fiber into. smithereens, into such short pieces. that it can't actually act as a lattice. work to sequester and prevent that. absorption. So, the rate of absorption. in the intestine is just as fast, and so. the fructose and the glucose will still. get to the liver just as. fast as it did before when it was juice. So, that's not the answer. So, uh making.

a smoothie out of it is not the answer. >> I was looking at the top comments from. my last conversation, and they're all. extremely. I'd say similar, but they're they're all. incredibly inspiring. Someone here has. written the top comment, which um. I shall pre-root I shall record the. screen so Jack can throw it on the. screen. It says, "Steven, I discovered. Robert 3 years ago after my doctor told. me I was pre-diabetic. 3 years on, my. blood levels are completely normal, and. everyone tells me how good I look. recently. This man should be on every TV. in the world, but the food industry is.

trying to shut him up. Follow the work, and. you will your life like he changed mine. Stuart J, 59 years old, male, in the. UK.". >> That's very heartening. I'm glad to hear. that. Good for you, Stuart. >> "My friend was diagnosed with stage 4. prostate cancer and given 1 year to. live. He found Dr. Lustig and rigorously. followed his advice. Keto diet, intermittent fasting, regular walking. That was 2 years ago. He's now in. remission. The cancer is gone.".

"I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes, fibro- myalgia, >> Mhm. >> and decided to cut out all the sugar, including fruit. Not only did I lose 60. lb in under a year, but my pain went. from 10 to 1 to 2. >> Wow. >> I had more energy, my A1C dropped to. normal levels, and I went from being. fully disabled to going back to work. full-time. Cutting out all the sugar is. hard, I won't lie. It's also a constant. constant battle, but it is so worth it.".

>> Well. and lastly, I listened to this podcast. last year. I made a decision on December. the 28th, 2023 to stay away from all. candy, brownies, maple, walnut scones, and all desserts. You get the idea. It. is now approaching December 28th, 2024, and besides re-watching this video, I. have made another commitment to do the. same thing I did last year. It's a shame. that 73% of what's in the aisles in the. grocery store have hidden sugar in it.

And so I haven't gotten. radical about it, but the changes I've. made have made me feel. terrific. Dr. Robert is the cat's meow, and he has a giant paw of in me. getting me back purring. I'm 68 and play 5 days a week, 2 to 4 hours a day, pickleball. >> Wow. >> I love the choices I've made. I love. you, doctor. >> Aw. You know what? I love you, too.

And I'm 68. Maybe when Maybe. Maybe when I go to the UK, we'll have a. date. >> Well, that's Leslie. He's a She's quite. a pretty. >> Oh, very nice. >> How does that make you feel? >> Um. very heartened. >> I can see the uh the emotion in your. face. >> very heartened, but but you know, the. problem's not fixed. The problem's fixed for each of these.

people, but the problem's not fixed. And because the problem's not fixed, um. I still have a job to do. So, it it gives me more um. uh strength to do it. It gives me more. purpose, and gives me more reason to do. it. But, you know, the problem's not fixed. >> Do you think one of the most impactful. things that we could all do for our. health is just to reduce our sugar. consumption? >> That'd be That's That's job one. Okay? Uh Uh there are many things, but.

without question, that's the easiest. one. And. to be honest with you, the food industry. should be helping us do that. The only. reason the sugar's in the food is. because of they wanted it there. They. put it there on purpose because they. knew when they add it, you buy more. >> And exercise, how does that impact my. decision to reach for sugar or not reach. for sugar? >> Well, it doesn't really impact your. decide. desire to reach for sugar. It has its. own metabolic benefits. Um.

totally for exercise. Don't get me. wrong. I am completely for exercise. Exercise does many good things, but. burning calories is not one of them. >> Mhm. >> Okay? People think, oh, uh. you know, exercise to work off the donut. that I ate. Wrong. Ah. Forget it. That's not what it's about. What does exercise do? Exercise. increases mitochondria. And that's good because you need. increased mitochondria reserve in order. to make all that ATP.

Exercise increases brain trophic factors. which are necessary for cognition. And. it's been shown now that exercise is one. of the primary. um methods for mitigating risk for. dementia. Okay? It increases brain-derived. neurotrophic factor. It increases. leptin. All of these are necessary to. promote synaptogenesis and even increase. neurogenesis more neurons, you know, so. that they don't die. So, I'm all for. exercise. Exercise also increases muscle.

mass. And muscle mass, it you know, is. uh is a mitigating factor for early. demise. Like I said, sarcopenia is a. risk factor for early demise. So, exercise is the way to undo that. Having said that, none of that had. anything to do with weight loss. Okay? So, if you think exercise is going. to make you lose weight, you are deluded. You are under a delusion. You have.

adopted the calorie hypothesis. I am. here to dispel. I am here to destroy the. calorie hypothesis. A calorie is not a. calorie. >> So many of the people that are listening. to this conversation right now, if they're in the United States or if. they're in other parts of the world that. have similar health. stats, are diabetic or pre-diabetic. One in 10. people worldwide have diabetes, and in. the United States, one in three to four. of adults that are listening right now.

are pre-diabetic, even if you don't have. a huge amount of fat on your body. >> It's actually 40%. Four out of 10. >> Which is crazy. >> Yeah. That's right. >> It means that almost half of the people. listening right now, whether you know it. or not, could well be pre-diabetic if. you fit into the statistics that we we. have here. I mean, terrifying. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, for these people that are. pre-diabetic that have just found out.

cuz there was I asked this question. because there is a guy here that says. his doctor's just um told him he's. pre-diabetic, and he's listening. listening to the show probably again. So, I wanted to offer him something. His. doctor's just told him that he's. pre-diabetic. What should he be doing? >> All right. First thing, get rid of all ultra-processed food from. your diet. >> Okay. >> And then in the process, you'll have. gotten rid of all the sugar from your. diet. That's the first thing. See how that works. Okay, spend 2 weeks.

doing just that. If that works, fantastic. If that. doesn't work, add a add some exercise. Walk. Walk your dog. >> Okay, so on the first point, should he. be a glucose monitor. to help him? Cuz people can get on. Amazon or these other websites very, you. know, $20, you can get a glucose monitor. for your arm. >> Yeah. So, I am for glucose monitors. And. the reason is because they are a sub.

substitute, a proxy for insulin. When. the glucose goes up, that means the. insulin goes up. And it's the insulin that really makes. the difference. So, we have documentation of the fact. that by monitoring your own glucose. concentration, you can see improvements. in metabolic health down the line. You can food log, you can use the. glucose monitoring. You don't need to do. glucose monitoring, you can just do it. with the food logging and it will still.

work. Bottom line, there are a whole bunch of. scientists who are against using glucose. monitors for non-diabetics. And they. write about this routinely. They seem to. write about it always in the New York. Times. Now, I'm completely 180° opposite on. that. I think it is a very good idea. The reason that they say it is a bad. idea is because if you're using the same. uh outcome variables as for diabetes, time in range, time above range, time.

below range, well, these are. non-diabetics, so of course. all those numbers are going to be in the. center. They're going to be in the time. in range. So, it looks like there's no. benefit to that. Okay? That's not the. point. The point is the downstream. outcomes which come 3 months later. They're not looking at that. We have. those data. We are looking at that, and. the data are very good. >> Do you know Do you know what I think is. really, really useful with those CGMs, those continuous glucose monitors that. you can buy online super cheaply, is.

they just educate you on. the impact that different foods you. might have thought were healthy, like. the juices we talked about. >> Like rice. >> Yeah, like right Oh my god, white rice. That's actually one of the big things I. learned. There's two things that shocked. me. Three things that shocked me over. the last couple of years that I thought. were healthy. So, I grew up thinking that orange. juices were healthy. I remember being a young kid and getting. the Sunny Delight out of the the fridge. and like. glugging it because I'd seen on the. advert it said vitamin C or something.

I thought oh vitamin C good, glug it. Um. I've come to learn that. >> that that was their subterfuge. And you. were a victim. >> I was a victim and I'd like. compensation. Sunny D. >> I think the entire. you know, UK population US population. deserves compensation. >> There's a young lady in the comment. section who watched our conversation. last time. She said a quote from. this doctor that I loved and I've never. forgotten is any food that is linked to.

a television commercial should not be. consumed. Brilliantly said and a great boundary to. put in place. >> Yep, that's right. >> Any food that is linked to a television. commercial should not be consumed. It's. so true. They don't put cucumbers. in television commercials. >> Not enough. marketing. money not not enough. margin. >> So, Sunny D that's orange juices. generally I don't drink any juices. anymore. I haven't for years now. The. other one was white rice. I thought that. was healthy growing up. Thought it was.

really really healthy and then I did a. continuous glucose monitor with a. company that I'm an investor in called. Zoe. >> Yes, I remember. >> And it gave me this it was like it was. horrific. impact on my like gut microbiome and my. my glucose levels and the. third one was tomato ketchup. I didn't know there was so much bloody. sugar. >> Oh yeah, yeah. >> in in most ketchups. >> In fact, Heinz ketchup is half high. fructose corn syrup. >> Madness. And that's the I think that's. the value of getting a continuous. glucose monitor even if you just run it.

for 14 days. is you'll learn your relationship with. these things you frequently eat. And. most of us are frequent eaters, we eat. the same kind of things. Um. And. >> And you can make some trades. What is. the most important thing we haven't. talked about that we should have talked. about, Robert? >> I know what we haven't talked about. Psychedelics. >> What would you like to talk about with. psychedelics? >> Psychedelics are serotonin. A big dose, a big glug of serotonin all.

at once. What serotonin does. is provides you with this sense of. complacency, of eudaimonia, of. contentment. Serotonin is necessary to rewire. areas of the brain. You can actually see. it on um on MRI. So, actually leading to synaptic. rewiring. Think of it this way. >> Just to clarify that, just on one point. You're not You're not saying that. psychedelics create serotonin, you're. saying that they are the same.

>> serotonin mimicker. >> Okay. Yeah. >> They mimic serotonin. >> Yeah. >> Think of it this way. You live. uh. on a mountain, okay, with snow. And you have to every week go down to. the general store at the base of the. mountain. And you ski down there. And you ski down there. And you ski down there. And the. snow falls, and you ski down there. And. soon, what you've done is you've created.

ridges in the snow. for you. to get down the hill. And. they freeze, and soon, the only way to get down the hill. is through the ridges that you've. created. You are now basically in a rut. You have. trapped into that path. There's no other. way out your house other than. those ridges that have frozen in place.

That's what's happening in your brain. You can't unthink your way out of it. because that's the only way you know. Psychedelics are like a huge enormous. blizzard. filling in the ruts, filling in the. ridges. So you end up with a pristine, you know, snowbank for you to be able to. basically ski any which way you want. It's your way out of your rut.

And what we have in America and UK, too, is a whole lot of people with a set of. belief systems that have put them into. ruts that they can't think their way out. of. Now, can this be done without. psychedelics? Absolutely. But it's hard. Psychedelics are way to, shall we say, hack. that belief system concept and allow you. to rethink your own life and the life of.

the. people around you and how you interact. with them. And um. we need more research. in this to solve mental illness and also. uh improve uh the. well-being of um. you know, sizable proportion of. population. >> I'm I'm a big fan of uh the research. taking place with. in the psychedelic field. I actually.

spent a year of my life in. what I believe is the biggest. psychedelics company in the world as an. investor and then as a director um in a. capacity where I was helping to drive. fundraising through through through. marketing and then the company is now a. public business that's doing a lot of. the clinical studies. So. >> Which one is it? >> It's a Tighlyf Sciences. >> Uh-huh. >> I'm obviously Compass Pathways as well. I'm an investor in that company and uh. I'm a big fan of what MAPS are doing as. it relates to using these these. molecules for.

mental health disorders and. treatment-resistant depression, PTSD, anxiety, etc. And it's so shocking to me. that. that you know, it's taken so long to. >> Yeah, well, you know, they got a bad rap. from Nixon, you know, back in the 1970s. Now, I understand why. By the way, no. one should do psychedelics alone. >> Yeah. >> You do them with a guide, you do them. with someone you completely trust, and. where safety is paramount, >> Yeah. >> and um. uh they can be really remarkable.

>> And we talk about sets and setting, which is. hopefully they'll they'll be done in. clinical settings with a as you say, with a practitioner. >> Yes, that's the only way they should be. done. >> Dr. Robert, we have a closing tradition. on this podcast where the last guest. leaves a question for the next, not. knowing who they're leaving it for. >> I knew it was coming. >> Yes, you did. Looking at your life and the lives of. others, how would you describe the. journey of life. and how to approach it?

>> When you come out of the box, when you're born, and. you already have. neurons and synapses and neural pathways. that have developed even though you've. had no experience. The experience will either. solidify those or destroy them. Ultimately, those turn into belief.

systems. Almost every belief system that you. thought you understood. about how the world works. is wrong. You have to be open. to the fact that all the things you. thought were true. aren't. And if you are if you are that open with. yourself, you will know yourself. And if. you know yourself,

you can be happy. But if you. you know, believe your belief systems. and you never question them, you're never going to get there. >> Amen. Robert, thank you so much. You're I mean. I you know. I say to some people sometimes that. they're doing good in the world, but. you're quite frankly saving a lot of. people's lives. The fact that all the. top comments on the video seem to be. dominated by the same narrative that. you've saved someone's life, you've. improved their life is I mean is there.

any higher work one can do with their. life than improve the quality and. duration and health of someone else's. life. And that's exactly what you're. doing. It's what you've done through. your public advocacy work. I know you. recently spent some time with Prince. Charles in the UK, which is incredibly. exciting. The the king of England. Um. talking to him about health outcomes and. all of the work that you've been doing. And it's what what an honor it is to be. invited by him. to. you know, him asking for your opinions. and your your perspective on on health,

which I know is is something that's. quite close to the heart of of the king. And then through these books, these. incredible books that I have in front of. me here, which I'm going to link all of. them below. This one's a This one's new, right? So this one's uh. >> it's coming out September 16th. >> Okay. So that will. be out by the time the conversation's. out, I believe. And these incredible books, I mean. there's so many of them that I can't. pick a favorite child, but um they're. all incredible depending on what where. people are at in their lives and what. they're trying to understand. Robert, thank you so much. >> It's been my pleasure.

>> Make sure you keep what I'm about to say. to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you. to come even deeper into the Diary of a. CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is. a brand new private community that I'm. launching to the world. We have so many. incredible things that happen that you. are never shown. We have the briefs that. are on my iPad when I'm recording the. conversation. We have clips we've never. released. We have behind-the-scenes. conversations with the guest and also. the episodes that we've never ever. released and so much more. In the.

circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show. to be, who you want us to interview, and. the types of conversations you would. love us to have. But, remember for now. we're only inviting the first 10,000. people that join before it closes. So, if you want to join our private close. community, head to the link in the. description below or go to. doacircle.com. I will speak to you then. This has always blown my mind a little. bit. 53% of you that listen to this show. regularly haven't yet subscribed to this.

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