Mel Robbins: This One Hack Will Unlock Your Happier Life | E108

And this is freaking genius. I've taught. it to millions of people. It's curing. people's anxiety. There is nobody like Mel Robbins. There. is nobody. If I hadn't done what I did. that morning, my life would have gone in. a totally different direction. I'd. probably be divorced, I'd probably be an. alcoholic, my family would be torn. apart, no idea what I'd be doing for a. living or where I would be. I finally had the experience. of being in my body. and being safe and being okay.

And I hadn't had that in a really long. time. Um. So, you asked me in the beginning. kind of what is it that that created all. of this insider, this drive to figure it. out. I think I just figured it out. You You. just [ __ ] did it.

They call her the female Tony Robbins. But she's so much more than that. She's one of the most incredibly. vulnerable, honest, introspective, wise people I have ever met in my entire. life. And she's written three. best-selling books that offer a very. simple solution to have a transformative. impact on your entire life. I first. found out about Mel Robbins some 7 years. ago when I watched a video of her.

talking about how to motivate yourself. every single day. And when my team told. me that she was coming to London for a. short trip, I said we have to get her on. this podcast. There is nobody like Mel. Robbins. There is nobody. I've never. seen Mel Robbins cry during an interview. before. But in this podcast. it happens again. We have an epiphany. Mel removes her glasses. She begins to. cry. And it's an incredibly touching. moment. I think for a lot of you, this.

is going to be the favorite podcast on. this channel that you've ever listened. to. So, without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The. Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening. But if you are, then please keep this to yourself. Before we started recording, I said a. lot of nice things about you just a few. seconds ago. And um. I talked about how sort of introspective. you are, how much you've achieved, your.

your remarkable ability to speak about. ideas and things you've discovered in. yourself. Um you really are a standout individual. And so, whenever I meet someone that I. consider to be a really standout. individual, it always begs the question. to me, having a small background in like. childhood psychology, what is it? What. was the cauldron in which Mel was. sculpted that made you the person you. are today at the very start of your. life? I. I guess that. I'm trying to think about like there's.

no defining moment. Because I had great parents who did the. best that they could with what they were. handed in terms of their own childhoods. and patterns and thinking. And uh I grew. up in a tiny little town where nothing. really happened. But one thing did. happen, and that was in the fourth. grade, I was uh a family kind of ski. trip thing. And uh in the middle of the. night I woke up and one of the kids was.

on top of me. And yeah, like on top of me molesting. me. Like we're going here like fast. I. mean, you asked like what was the thing, and this was like the first thing that. popped into mind. And um. it was interesting because. I didn't remember the experience for a. very long time. I did not remember that this had. happened until I was in my late 20s. And. if you look at the spectrum of what can. happen to somebody in terms of sexual.

abuse, which unfortunately is very. common. experience for people, this was a very. mild experience. Like it wasn't anybody. that I knew, it was a one-off, it was. another kid. So clearly something was. happening to this kid in their life. It. wasn't scary, it was confusing. But I. was awoken. from a state of sleep. And I immediately felt and knew that. something was wrong. And it's my first. experience in my life of what.

psychologists call dissociating. I. literally left my body. And I rolled. over and I don't even remember how it. ended because I wasn't in my body to be. there. And the very next morning, I'll. never forget this, I hid underneath the. sheets cuz it was a big bunk room and. all the kids. left to go downstairs to get ready to go. skiing. And I remember waiting until I. thought it was quiet. I threw the. comforter off, I went down these steep.

stairs, I turned the corner and there. was my mom. And she was cooking. breakfast with some of the other moms. and she turned around and she said, "How'd you sleep?". And I immediately, Steven, wanted to tell her. And out of the corner of my eye, I saw the kid. And in that moment, split-second child. brain, I froze. And as much as I wanted to tell my mom, and I knew exactly what she do. I mean,

she grew up on a farm, she had a spatula. in her hand, she would have hit that kid. in the next week. But I didn't know what the kid was going. to do. And in that moment, I lied. And I said, "Fine.". And the day went on and nothing. happened. And I believe whether it is a. 30-year-long struggle with anxiety. or a tendency to disassociate or the. fact that I was chronically lying when I.

was younger in any moment when I felt. uncertain. I had no idea how that singular moment. set me on a course. that would last decades before I. realized that all of these patterns of. behavior that I was struggling with. I. didn't know why I lied. I didn't know. why I felt so uncomfortable if I. couldn't predict somebody's reaction. I. couldn't understand why I would leave my. body so many times. I couldn't. understand why I had very few memories.

from my childhood. It wasn't until I. started to understand human behavior uh. the way the brain learns patterns, the. way that you need and can break patterns. and replace patterns and learn new. patterns that I began this journey that. I've been on for the past 10 years of. understanding my own breakdowns, my own. heartaches, my own struggles and sharing. what I'm learning with anybody who will. listen. How's that for an answer?

Did you ever tell anybody when did you. first tell someone about that incident? Well, I never told anybody because it's. like I forgot about it in that moment. Like I just suppressed what had. happened. And. there were lots of times in my life when. I was a teenager, when I was in college, when I was in law school, particularly. in law school because my anxiety just. came to a huge crescendo in law school. Just completely out of control with my.

thoughts, with how I felt in my body. I had not been diagnosed yet with. anxiety or anxiety disorder. and had not been medicated. Did not even. know anxiety was a thing. So this would. have been 1992. through 1994. And um. I didn't even remember it. And so I didn't even remember this. incident until I was 28 years old and I. was sitting in like kind of one of these. life improvement seminars where you're.

in a windowless conference room and. everyone's got a name tag on and there's. a person up front and this woman stands. up and she was talking about how she had. been molested when she was younger by a. babysitter that her parents hired. And. the story went on how she had been in. therapy for a long time. She was. starting to deal with the trauma of the. experience. She had forgiven the. babysitter. She had forgiven her parents, but she. could not forgive her sister. And the person leading the seminar kind. of looked at her and said, "Why.

what's wrong with your sister?". And she said, "Well, I'm so angry that. this babysitter. was choosing me. And while I'm in this room getting. abused, my sister is out there watching. TV.". And. when she said that, I had an immediate. memory. And there was this triggering moment. where I. I was sitting in this windowless.

conference room at the age of 28, but I. was physically in that bunk bed. Because what I remembered in that moment. was oh my god, when I woke up in the. middle of the night with this kid on top. of me, I looked to my right, my younger. brother. was sleeping in the bed right there. And my immediate thought was, "I don't. want this person to hurt him." And. that's why I rolled over and stayed. quiet. And so it was that.

it was this woman telling the story. about her sister that triggered me to. remember it. And as soon as I remembered. it, oh my god, I told my brother, I told. my parents, I you know, I just started. talking about it. I I think that one of. my um one of the things that I'm. grateful for is that I process things by. talking about it. Once the dam is open, baby, like the. floodgates are coming. Like I just and. and so I tend to process things by. speaking about it. And for me, it wasn't.

the. um incident itself. that created a lot of grief for me. Because I know, based on the work that. I've done as a crisis intervention. counselor working uh with victims of. domestic violence, the work I did uh as. a criminal defense attorney working for. Legal Aid in New York City, and the. amount of training that we got, um and. also just the amount of uh work I've. done and studying that I've done on the. subject of psychology and human.

behavior, I know that when a kid is. doing that to another kid, it's being. done to them. So, I even at the age of. 28, I didn't even have any anger toward. the person that did this to me. My anger was at myself. Why didn't I remember this? Why why am I. so [ __ ] up? Why couldn't I have. remembered this like the constant. self-bashing. That is the piece that um.

I think has been the thing that I've. really struggled with. Why am I so [ __ ] up? Yeah, why am I so. [ __ ] up? You know, there's um. there's this incredible thing about the. human design. So, when you think about. human beings and you know, as a as a. parent, so my husband and I have three. kids, uh one's 23, uh another one's 21, and then our son is 16. And as a young parent, I would often. feel this incredible sense of awe. Like,

it is remarkable. how many babies are born. When you think. about how many things have to go right. You know what I mean? And the design of. a human being. And there is so much elegance and beauty. and sophistication and genius to the. human design. It's just. shocking. But there is one fundamental flaw. that screws up everybody. And that is that when you're a little.

kid. and things happen to you, you do not have the life experience and. you do not have the support system. to be able to process what is happening. And it could be anything. It could be. something as serious as homelessness and. poverty and systemic discrimination. It. could be violence. It could be abuse in. your home. It could be addiction, mental. illness. It could be chaos in your. household. It could be sexual abuse. It.

could just be a mother or a father who's. so freaking critical or who is. passive-aggressive. So you wake up as a. kid and you have no idea. what you're going to wake up to. But when something goes wrong or. something happens to you as a kid, you. don't have the life experience or the. support structure to basically go, "Whoa. This situation is [ __ ] or these. adults, somebody call the police. Like,

this is not okay. You don't get to talk. to me like like no kid does that. The. fundamental flaw in human design. is that when something happens to you as. a kid, you don't say, "What's wrong with. that kid?" or "What's wrong with my. dad?" or "What's wrong with this. situation?" You say, "What's wrong with me?". We aim it back at ourselves. And then I think that, you know, this. then starts to build as a thinking.

pattern that there must be something. wrong with me. That you aim everything that's happening. out there. back at yourself. And you did that through your early. early adulthood, right? I think. everybody does. I really do. I I think. that that, you know, when you're um. growing up, I believe that this happens. around the age of eight or nine or 10. That, you know, no human being is born. and hates themselves. We're actually wired for love. We're.

wired for connection. Um you know, if. you look at a kid who's two or three or. four, right? And they see a mirror, they don't look at it and go, "Ugh, my. thighs are so fat. Like, I can't, you. know." They look at the mirror and they. put their hands up and they twirl and. they kiss the mirror and they they love. the sight of themselves. And you and I don't remember this, but. we loved the sight of ourselves, too. And what happens because that's your. natural state.

That's your. wired state, in my opinion. You are. wired for self-love. You're wired for. self-acceptance. You are wired for. self-worth. You're wired for. self-respect. You're wired for. resilience. I mean, when you think about. uh a baby, none of us remember this, but. you will literally fall down 77 times an. hour and you'll just keep standing back. up. So, this resilience, this sense of. empowerment, this sense of really being. proud of yourself, of loving yourself, it is part of your design, your DNA,

your birthright, but life happens. And it can happen two ways. You know, if. you grow up in a chaotic household, you. start to absorb the message that. something's wrong. And so, you go into modes of behavior to. protect yourself, and these patterns of. behavior that you create to protect. yourself get locked in your brain. But for everybody, so if you grew up in. a in a wonderful household like I did, if you grew up in a place that you were. very safe like I did, you still are.

going to experience some kind of trauma. cuz trauma's deeply personal and trauma. at its at its simplest form is just a. moment when your nervous system. gets dysregulated. A moment where your. whole body turns on an alarm. And when. your whole body turns on an alarm, whether it's uh-oh, there's the car pulling on the gravel. driveway. The person that drinks and comes home. and is abusive is pulling in. Or uh-oh, mom's got that expression on.

her face, I better not say anything. It can be small moments, big moments, but when your nervous system goes into a. state of alarm, your brain kicks in to. let's record everything in hyper speed. so we can remember this so I can protect. you in the future. And that pattern. locks and that's why so many adults. continue to stay trapped in patterns. from their childhood that they don't. even remember. why they have them, how like any of it. But for everybody, so that's sort of.

like if you grew up in a chaotic. household, which I didn't, but I think. what happens developmentally is, you. know, there's this moment when we're in. elementary school and none of us. remember it, at least I don't remember. it, but it happens to everybody. Where one day you walk into elementary. school and you're like loving yourself. and you're happy as a clam and you're. just kind of walking up to whomever and. you like yourself and you love yourself, so you'll go up to anybody. You'll sit. with anybody in the cafeteria. And then.

I don't know. what the hell happens, but the next day. you walk into that cafeteria, you got. your little hands on your tray, and you. start scanning the room for where you're. going to sit, and all of a sudden that. brain that is wired for self-love and. self-acceptance, flips into the sorting. hat from Harry Potter. And you all of a sudden see. the world. in. the places that you belong.

and the places that you don't. And that's how it begins. And your mind starts to tell you you. can't go there, you don't look like. those kids, those are the sports kids, they're going to. as a way to protect you. But the message that you start to get. from your own brain or from society at. large or from what's going on in your. household is that who you are is not. okay.

When I was reading about your story, you're talking about education and and. schools, um it seemed that you were quite, I. don't know, disorientated in college. When you went to college and you were. struggling to figure out who you are and. if that resulted in quite significant. procrastination and. Oh my god. Yes. Um so I, you know, I'm very open about. the fact that I struggled with anxiety. for a long time. Yeah. And um.

what's interesting about anxiety is. that, you know, I'm I'm now talking to. you from the perspective of being 53. years old. I was like really [ __ ] up. And by. [ __ ] up, I mean not that I was like. stealing cars or breaking laws or doing. anything like that, but I was not. comfortable in my own body. And the way that I would describe it is, I think from that moment, literally, that moment in fourth grade that I just. shared with you, it makes me really sad.

to think about the fact that I was just. a fourth grader that had a traumatic. experience. I didn't know, but my nervous system remembered. And so. anytime. I went to bed, I woke up the next. morning with the sensation in my body. that something was wrong. And any pattern of behavior or thinking. that you start to repeat becomes a.

habit. Habits are just patterns. That's. all that they are. And so I had a life experience because. of one incident where I would wake up. every single morning and feel like. something was wrong and I couldn't put. my finger on it. And the more that you wake up and think. something's wrong, the more your brain. is going to find reasons why something. might be wrong. And so I developed this. sort of chronic state of feeling. on alert.

Feeling the sense that I got to be. aware. Fight or flight. Yes. Yes, my you. know, in in clinical terms, my. sympathetic nervous system got switched. on. And I had no idea how to turn it off. And if you don't know how to calm your. nervous system down, to flip off the. sympathetic nervous system and flip on. the parasympathetic nervous system, which is your calm, grounded, resting. nervous system, you will forever struggle with focus,

with being present, with the ability to. think clearly and make good decisions. You will constantly talk about the fact. that you feel anxious and that comes. from your nervous system always being on. edge and being in fight or flight. I. didn't know any of this. I was just a. nervous kid with a nervous stomach. Every camp that I went to, I got sent. home cuz I was too homesick. Oh, yeah. I. mean, I was just I mean, you know how. homesick you have to be for trained. counselors to actually call your parents.

and go, "Uh, we got a problem here. She. can't stay here. Like she is. out of her mind.". When you say out of your mind, what what. are the physical symptoms or verbal. symptoms of that? Oh my gosh. Um. complete dis- disassociation. So I would. be at camp, like literally sixth grade. camp. So at the end of sixth grade year, and I feel I feel bad for little Mel. Robbins. I feel bad for her because, you. know, here's this this experience, sixth. grade camp, where the entire school for.

four nights goes away to a camp, just. the sixth grade. It's supposed to be the. culmination of your sixth grade year. And I am so freaked out that something. bad is going to happen. That I of course escalate things in my. own mind. I don't even feel like I'm at. camp. I feel like I'm walking on a movie. set. I don't feel like I'm on Earth. I. feel like I'm on a spaceship somewhere. looking down all the time. I. uh feel like I might throw up cuz my.

stomach is rattled because when you're. anxious and you can't focus your. thoughts, you tend to not eat, and so. that of course upsets your stomach. It's. not that something bad's going to. happen. It's that you're screwing up the. chemistry in your stomach by not eating. cuz you're so nervous, which only makes. it worse. And as your mind is scrambling. thinking something bad is going to. happen, and then your stomach is. hurting, then you start to think, "Oh my. god, I'm going to throw up." And then. you start to think, "Well, if I throw. up, something bad's going to happen, and. then the kids are going to laugh." And. like it just becomes. spiral this spiral train wreck, and that.

is the state that I lived in. And so um. you know, you learn how to cope. You it. becomes your new normal. But that was. basically my life, constantly feeling. like something bad was going to happen, constantly feeling like I wasn't really. present, constantly lying or fibbing. about how I felt or what I was thinking. because I didn't want people to judge. me. I mean, it's awful. And then you come through college and.

you've got to make that choice in life. as to which direction you're going to go. in. It's kind of it seems quite. Choice. I love the choice, yeah. Yeah, well, it is. Well, how would you define. it? Um panic. Panic, yeah. Yeah, cuz I didn't know what I wanted to. do. Yeah. Cuz I had only ever lived in. survival mode. Hm. So, did you did you not take a pause to. decide to sort of listen to. Take a pause? who you were and what your your calling. was and Take a pause? When you have anxiety, your whole mode. of living is if I'm on the move, no one. can catch me.

If I am on the run, I'm safe. And so, what's interesting is that I think the. only time in my life that I have. actually slowed down. was during the pandemic. Hm. Does that sound familiar? Yeah, of. course, yeah. Yeah, no choice. Yeah. And one of the hardest things, which became one of the greatest. realizations. is.

truly coming face-to-face with myself. and realizing. that even though I have done all this. work to heal trauma, even though I have. uh. done extraordinary things in terms of my. own thinking patterns. that there was a level to which I was. still on the run. That I was darting off to a coffee shop. or darting off to Target or darting off. to an airplane. And all of this racing around.

kept me from having to truly stop and. stand with the woman in the mirror. And just be still and figure out, well, what do I really want? How do I really want to feel? You talk about the topic of distraction. and procrastination and it's rarely in. this context, but it sounds like a form. of distraction. Distracting yourself from the from. taking a moment to to confront thyself.

and. um yeah, to really ask some of those. questions which I guess if you're in a. fight or survival state. um the answers to to some of those. questions might be. maybe illuminating to a vulnerable you. know to a to. to an extent which will make you feel. vulnerable and unsafe because those are. pretty like existential questions to ask. yourself. To look at yourself and say. who am I and what do I want and you know. how do I get it? It's much easier as you. say just to be swept by the tide. Mhm. And that's a form of short-term defense.

It feels like a short-termist we'll just. get to tomorrow. You know? Yeah. And some people go. through their lives doing that, right? was. Yeah. I was. You know, I think that. there's also sort of layers of healing. on issues. And so you know when I. remembered the sort of initial incident. and I started kind of string together. holy cow like all of this is connected. in a really interesting way. Um compounding itself, right? Yeah. Talking about it.

is one layer. And it's a super important thing to do. To give yourself the gift of sitting. down with somebody who is licensed or. who has an expertise in helping you. unpack what happened. Because it's only in being able to talk. through what happened that you have the. ability to start to free yourself from. what happened. Like if you can't reveal. it you're definitely not going to heal.

from it. And so I had done the layer of talking. about it. And then I had gone and done. the layer even underneath it of. understanding. what had happened and understanding how. it connected to anxiety and how it. connected how trauma connected to that. and understanding the lying piece. And I. had even gone and done the layer. underneath that, which was starting to. interrupt the old patterns that would. get triggered and put in new patterns,

but it wasn't until recently. that I went to the layer that you need. to go to to truly heal, which is to repair. the nervous system. And, you know, what what is uh. interesting to me about kind of even the. whole journey is that, you know, I've. had layer after layer after layer. For. me, talking about it was very freeing. And, you know, people always say to me,

"Oh my god, you're so relatable." Like, we open up boom right out of the gate. I. tell you something that normally. somebody reveals like an hour in. It's. because I have a level of freedom around. it. And I also know it's a shared. experience that so many people can. relate to on some level. Um. but it wasn't until I understood how it. impacts your nervous system and the. connection between your mind, body, and. spirit that I began to realize what I. think it was Michael Pollan or Tim. Ferriss on one of his podcasts said,

which is. if you didn't talk yourself into this. [ __ ] you're not going to talk yourself. out of it. Like, you have to have a corresponding. physical intervention. if there was something physical that. disrupted your body state to begin with. And that makes a lot of sense to me. It. makes a lot of sense to me that if your. nervous system or your brain recorded an. experience, like I can give you a benign. example. Uh for people that don't that.

have never really kind of thought. through what trauma actually means, why. it's deeply personal, how it's a. physical experience, not just a mental. experience. So, when I was um God, how. old was I? I I guess I was I must have. been in high school. We were driving to. northern Michigan, and it was a huge. snowstorm and my mom was behind the. wheel. And my dad and my brother were in the. car in front of us. And there was a radio on and um. all of a sudden the radio announcer said. something about black ice.

And this truck pulled out to try to pass. us. And right as he tried to pass us, you. could see headlights coming on. And my mom said, "Oh my god, hold on.". Cuz the truck started to veer back in. So I remembered the words black ice, "Oh. my god, hold on." And the next thing I. remember, we were in the it was like a SUV, the. car rolled over, right? Several times. And the experience of being in that car.

was like um imagine sitting in a dryer. and you're sitting still like. but the clothes are tumbling around you, right? And so like, you know, the. McDonald's bag went flying past us and. the dog went flying past us and all this. stuff and we and. I remember. even though I don't remember getting. tumbled around, I remember this. unbelievable sound that was like crunch. crunch crunch of the car.

rolling and packing down the snow. Now we ended up with the car on its side. and I was like thrown to the backseat, the dog was in the way back, but my mom. was buckled in. at the top. We were fine, little shaken up. Think my. mom might have had a concussion. We. survived, nobody died. They flipped the car back over, we. climbed in with my dad, off we went. Now. here's what's interesting about that. experience.

I was never scared to drive, ever. I. didn't ever really even think about it. Um. but it was a traumatic experience. because my body remembers it. And it remembers it in a certain way. I. don't ever think about the experience if. I'm driving a car. That's not a trigger. for my body to remember it. But if I walk to my mailbox in Boston, Massachusetts. after a freshly fallen snow. and I step on the snow and it goes.

I feel like I'm back in that car. Because that sound is a trigger for my. nervous system to remember. Now, that sound of me stepping on. freshly fallen snow. my mom does that all day long in. Michigan and doesn't think about the. accident. But if somebody ever says the. two words black ice around my mom. she feels like she's in that car. accident. Because that's her trigger for.

her nervous system to remember it. So. the reason why I tell that story is. because I didn't understand trauma. I thought trauma was like for victims of. war. That's what you experience if you, you know, do a tour of duty, somebody. who has been the victim of a super. violent crime. I did not realize that. trauma is a disruption. in your nervous system. that sends your brain into a mode where. your brain like holds down the shutter.

on a camera and is like snap snap snap. snap snap snap snap all five senses. recording everything it can possibly. grab as a way to protect you in the. future. When I started to understand that oh my. god patterns of behavior get triggered. by smell, they get triggered by sound, they get triggered by music, they get. triggered by and the same thing with. patterns of thinking. Now I had the missing piece to be able. to start to truly reset not only my. nervous system, but also the default.

patterns in my mind. And I haven't. looked back since. But that was step one um in terms of how. I stopped the cascade of the what if. this happens and what if that happens. and what if this happens and what and. what are they thinking and why didn't. they invite me here and what and the. universal thing that I started to. replace the what if with was what if it. all works out? What if this is the best thing that ever. happened to me? What if this is really hard and it does. suck? That's not easy. But it turns out. to be the best thing. that I ever did. It's not easy though,

is it? No, it's very simple to do but it's not. easy and it's not easy because you love. patterns. Like we don't it doesn't. that's not even the right way to say it. It's not easy because you're so used to. thinking a certain way. And you and as. you write about you know one of the. things I scribbled down was that. you said feelings are merely. suggestions, ones you can ignore. But we. go through life, no one's ever said that. to us before. We go through life. thinking that our thoughts are ourselves. and that is an instruction from.

ourselves and that's my voice in my head. telling me what to do and I must my job. is just to obey. So if it says, you know, this ice means. danger, then I, you know, and we accept our thoughts and when I've. sat here with guests, you know, who have. spent a lot of time working on the brain. and understanding the difference between. thoughts and are they true and. it appears to be that you can. analyze a thought and accept or reject. which is a compelling Well, the way that I put it. or I like to think about it is this.

You can be two things at once. So you can have the feeling. of being really frustrated with. somebody. And that can be true. And you can also love them at the same. time. You can be jealous of somebody. And you can also allow that to inspire. you at the same time. You can be afraid. which is true. And you can still. find the willpower to push yourself or.

discipline to push yourself forward. You. can be deeply in a state of grief. having experienced one of the biggest. losses or betrayals of your life. and still experience a moment of joy. as you're standing on the ocean and. watching some bird dive into the sea. Human beings are very complex and when. you start to understand you're not just. one thing it gives you freedom to ride. the waves of feelings, to ride the waves.

of experience and to kind of go down and. go, "Oh, [ __ ] This is a terrible. thing." and know. that you will be able to come out the. other side of it. And so, you know, I I. think that. that. emotions, yeah, they are suggestions and. that's one way to dismantle it. Another. way to dismantle kind of the way that an. emotion can hook you is to keep. reminding yourself that it's temporary. This wave of pissed-offness, this wave.

of betrayal, this wave of fear, this. wave of grief, this wave of frustration, this wave of feeling stuck, this wave of. feeling hopeless. it's temporary. It will come. and it will go. And when you realize that emotions are. temporary. it also gives you perspective, right? To. know that something better is coming. And that's going to help you be able to.

endure whatever it is that you're. enduring. Why should you drink Huel? We're going. into the fourth quarter of the year. Diets are dropping off. We're becoming. lazier and lazier. And what tends to. happen when we when our diets dip and we. we start to become less. compelled to go to the gym is, yeah, we. get out of shape, we start to feel low. energy, we start to binge eat bad. things. And Huel is the antidote. It's. nutritionally complete, so you get. everything you need for your diet in a. drink. You get your 20 g of proteins.

You're going to get your 26 vitamins and. vitamins and minerals. It's low sugar, high in fiber. It really. is the cure to a lot of the health. issues that we see in our personal. lives, but in wider society. If you've. never tried it, all I'll ask you to do. is give it a try. And if you're like me, then you will like the world berry ready. to drink. You'll like the mac and. cheese, which is just selling like. absolutely correct crazy, unsurprisingly. Um. you'll like the cinnamon. And you'll like the banana flavor. Those.

are my recommendations. I know a lot of. people love the chocolate flavor. Let me know. Try it. Get yourself. healthy and send me a message on. Instagram. Tag me on Instagram as well. on your stories if you do drink try it. out cuz I I sometimes upload those tags. And let me know which is your favorite. flavor. Can't wait to hear from you. So, that was step one. I dug a little. deeper on that step one phase, which was. that, you know, the kind of mental work. What was step two if you're level four. overcoming um the the trauma? So, the. first step was combating the thoughts in.

my head. Seeing them, interrupting them. I'm not. thinking about that. And then, you know, I went a little bit further and then. started to figure out, well, if I think. this, I'd rather be thinking this. And. so then I started working on replacing. the thoughts so that the default became. different. The next step though was. a deeper understanding. of anxiety. And really studying it because I was. tired of being anxious. I was tired of.

taking Zoloft. And look, Zoloft saved my. life. I mean, I was on that drug for two. and a half decades, for crying out loud. Uh one of my kids takes Zoloft and it. helped them climb out of a hole. It is I. love medication. Like I'm not here. saying nobody should be on medication. It's the opposite. I think that you it's. self-harm not to take medication if. you're in a hole and that medication can. serve as a ladder to help you climb out. of it. But I was at a point where, you. know, I'm 45 years old. I've been on.

this drug for a long time. I've been out. teaching the five second rule. I'm. interrupting thoughts. I'm starting to. feel like, "Wow, I actually have the. ability. to not think what I have always thought. I actually have the ability to shut that. worry down." And so as I started to. understand what anxiety really is. So. anxiety is a really important thing. Anxiety is an alarm system in your body. If you and I hop in a car and we drive.

off to have dinner and a truck pulls. out, right, and cuts us off and you. immediately swerve, what do you feel in. your body? It feels like something. rising in my belly and it's making me. like a little burst of nervousness and. yeah. Yeah, your heart races, your. armpits sweat, your hands get clammy, you jerk the wheel. Yeah, fight or. flight. Yeah. The alarm is sounding the alarm cuz. there's danger. Well, what happens the second the the. truck pulls away in your body? Well, it. should go back to a a calm state and I.

should my my respiratory system should. start to function as normal, my. digestive tract should start to engage, we should start burning the carbs again. in my belly. Yeah, exactly. go back to normal. That's from a. biological perspective. Yes, exactly. And the reason why that happens is. because your mind. has the vision of the truck pulling. away. So your mind tells your body. threat is over. Mhm. For a person that. experiences anxiety. over and over and over. like at their default state.

what's happened is. you're standing in your kitchen and all. of a sudden you feel that tidal wave. that you and I felt when the truck. pulled into our lane. But there's no threat. And so as the. rush hits your body, your mind starts. scrambling looking for what in the. kitchen is threatening me and there's. nothing there. And since you know the science of the. body, all the blood when you go into. fight or flight goes to your major. organs, it leaves your digestive tract, your stomach starts to gurgle. Most.

people think butterflies means they're. [ __ ] No, butterflies just means the. blood left your stomach to go to your. heart and now your digestive chemistry. has changed. That's all that's. happening. It doesn't mean you're about. to die, but we misread it cuz we don't. understand it. And so then once you go, oh I'm [ __ ] my stomach hurts and now. I'm feeling now your mind escalates it. and your mind starts freaking out. And. when your mind starts freaking out, then. your body freaks out more and that's. when the grand panic attack happens, which is an emergency break. It's it's.

designed to get you to stop thinking and. to just remove yourself. And if you've. ever seen somebody have a panic attack, they dart around a room, they can't breathe, and they feel like they've got to leave. whatever situation they're in. This is how your body's designed to get. you out of emergencies. Mhm. The problem. with somebody who gets a dysregulated. nervous system. is you feel like a truck's about to pull. in your lane all the time, but your. brain can't understand why you feel that.

way. because there is no truck. Your body just got stuck there. And so when I started to understand. that, I found this really interesting. piece of research um from Harvard. Medical School called reframing. performance anxiety. Where researchers wanted to know. since, you know, people really screw up. tests when they get nervous. Right? You know, you get nervous about a. test and then you can't focus and so you. blow it because you've got performance.

anxiety or athletes that really blow it. when they get nervous before in a game. Well, medically speaking, there is no physiological difference in. your body state, physiologically. speaking, between being nervous and being excited. Zero difference. So, exactly what you talked about when. the truck pulled into the lane in the. example that I gave, that experience. that made you feel nervous, when you feel excited, the same thing.

happens. Your heart races, the blood leaves your digestive tract. and goes up to your major organs, your. armpits start to sweat, your throat. feels tight, your hands get clammy. Exact same physiological experience. Excitement and nervous. The only difference between a situation. that makes you excited and a situation. that makes you nervous is what your. brain is saying about what's happening. So, if you're in a situation where. you're like, "Oh my god, I'm going to.

screw up this test. You know, this is. going to be terrible." And you start. working yourself up, and I'm so nervous, I'm so nervous, I'm going to blow this. interview, I'm so nervous. Of course you're going to start. sweating. Of course your heart's going. to race. If you and I are about to go see our. favorite musician, let's say we have. front row tickets, Adele is going to. play right here in London, we are right. there, oh my god, she's about to come on. stage, my heart's racing, my armpits are. sweating. I'm excited because my brain's going, "Adele's about to be there.".

So, the body. makes sense in the excitement situation. So, the researchers at Harvard wanted to. know, well, given that physiologically. it's the exact same experience, is it possible to trick the brain. in a moment when you're nervous and make. your brain think you're excited? And if. you did trick your brain in a moment. when you were nervous to believe that. you were actually excited, would it. impact your ability to perform? And the answer is yes, you can trick.

your brain in a situation where you're. nervous to believe that you're actually. excited. And yes, it profoundly impacts. your ability to perform. And so they put people in control groups. in um like karaoke competition, a. negotiation competition, a standardized. test, and a track meet. And there were only uh the only. difference between the groups is one. group was taught in a situation that. made them nervous to simply say, as dumb. as it sounds, "I'm so excited.".

"I'm so excited to run this race. I'm so. excited to take this test. I'm so. excited to get out there and sing." Even. though they felt nervous, "I'm so. excited.". And the people that were taught to say, "I'm so excited,". outperformed the people. who had no tools. And the reason can be explained by. chemistry and physiology and neurology. If you get too nervous. and you start to get too worked up and. your thoughts start to spin. and your body stays in a fight-or-flight.

state, your brain releases cortisol. And cortisol impacts your brain's. ability to focus. So all your preparation goes out the. window because you just blew it with the. cortisol in your brain. When you say, "I'm excited," even if you. feel nervous, your brain buys it and doesn't release. cortisol, which allows you to focus on what you.

need to do. And so I started experimenting with this. because I was deathly afraid of flying. and at the age of 45 I'm now all of a. sudden because of that TEDx Talk. starting to take off on the speaking. circuit and I'm having to board planes. and I'm being bombarded with these. thoughts of I'm going to die, I'm never. going to see my kids get married, I is. my husband going to remarry, you know, will I make it? And so I said, "I got to. figure out a better way." And so I. stumbled into this project and I came up. with this strategy. And this is freaking.

genius. I've taught it to millions of. people. It's curing people's anxiety. I kid you not. Therapists are using this. around the world. It is extraordinary. So, before you have to do something that. makes you nervous, come up with. uh anything that you can grab on to. that makes you excited about what you're. doing. So, for example, with the example. of flying, before I get on an airplane, I mean, I'm not afraid to fly at all. anymore. But, back in the day, back when.

I 8 years ago, before I would get on a. plane, so I'm flying to London, I would think of something I'm excited. to do. when I get to London. And so, before I board that plane in. Boston, I would think about coming here. and meeting Steven and getting to hang. out with him. When I get on that plane. and we're up in the air, and all of a. sudden we start bouncing around like, you know, something Yeah, like. turbulence in the air, and my body goes, "Oh my god!". I close my eyes and go, "I am so excited.

to see Steven. This is going to be. amazing." And what happens. is that my mind goes, "Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, hold on. Hold on. She's not. nervous. She's excited to see Steven.". And your body literally settles. And your mind locks on to this thing. that makes sense because I'm going to. London. I'm going to see you. And if I'm. going to see you, the plane obviously.

makes it. So, there's nothing to worry. about. And it took me about five or six. times of doing it, and I stopped having any kind of anxiety. whatsoever about flying. It's really interesting. So many. different My brain fizzled off into so. many different like like a flowchart. But, um you know, a lot of people talk. about anxiety being this like concern. about the future, right? And from one. perspective, I was thinking then as. you're saying that, what you're actually. doing is making the future. uh. an really nice place. So, your brain is.

saying this plane is going to crash, the. future is death. Yeah. And you're it. sounded like you're hijacking it saying. fact in fact brain the future is really. really pleasant. I get to go and see. Steven. Yeah. Which and it's like that's. what it sounded like but I but I have to. I just completely resonate and then. anyone that's really listened to to me. even in two episodes ago one of the. questions I was asked was about imposter. syndrome. And my response to that was I don't. necessarily feel like I've experienced. imposter syndrome because and the. example I gave is when I'm in Brazil and. I know I'm going up on stage and Barm is. there.

For me I I always say this on the. podcast I have the same butterflies. everyone else has but my brain is. telling me that I'm excited. Right. And it's done that so many times. and because I think because it does that. and then it goes well. It's reinforcing. that that is in fact excitement and next. time you'll you know and it's and it's. kept that fear at bay but I Can I unpack. what just happened? Please. So, for most people butterflies. in your stomach is a trigger. that makes you believe something bad's.

about to happen. Mhm. And I have a theory about it. The number one fear. in kids is throwing up. Number two is their parents dying. But number one according to. pediatricians is the fear of throwing up. because this is this intense moment of. losing control. Mhm. And so. tons of little kids. have an enormous fear of throwing up. And the trigger of your stomach rumbling.

or butterflies triggers that fear and so. I think there's been a lifetime negative. association with having butterflies. Mhm. What you did is you took a very. common. experience that's a negative trigger for. people. So, the physical sensation of. your stomach being upset triggers. negative thought patterns Uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, I'm in trouble, I'm in trouble, I'm in trouble. Yeah. And then that. sticks. What you've done is you've hijacked it.

And you've labeled that feeling in your. stomach as something positive. I'm. really excited. 100% but I didn't just. have credit for that because it was. never it was I've I figured that out in. hindsight only from. hearing someone that suffers with nerves. and then seeing the consequence of the. the impact that nerves have when they go. up on stage and me being like, okay, I. have that bit. I have the feeling but my. brain isn't fearful and then it goes. well for me and that reinforces me and. creates this compounding positive cycle.

in my life. Now where I can walk up on. stage with Obama and yeah, I'm feeling. it backstage but I'm like, I can't wait. to get up get up on stage, right? And. this kind of speaks to a confidence, all. of these things because once you get. stuck in that negative reinforcing. downward cycle and I'll tell you, the. downward cycle goes much faster than the. upward cycle. Like one incident can make. that confidence drop and then. um it's hard to get out of. It's hard to. get out of you know, and. I guess hijacking it in the way you've. described is is a definite solution.

Well, you know what. I just got really excited about. is that. let's go back to the fact that your. brain learns patterns. Mhm. And even though you may feel stuck, even though you may feel hopeless, you're not broken. You have patterns of thinking and. patterns of behavior that are broken. for where you are and where you want to. go in life. Mhm. And what's super.

exciting. is that when you start to think about. changing your life. through the lens of just looking for. patterns, breaking them and replacing. them, it becomes less personal. And I believe especially after what I've. experienced with the high five habit, that. you know, there's a lot of research in. in habits, obviously, about how long it. takes a new habit to stick. And. it's anywhere from, according to a lot.

of people, 21 days to 63 days, depending. upon what you're looking at in terms of. the mind, body, spirit. I personally. have a theory that if you don't like the. new habit, you're never going to make it. stick. Like, I don't like getting out of. bed in the morning. I've been using the. five second rule, 5-4-3-2-1, for 13. years. Can we talk about that? I feel like we. didn't brush over that little bit. So, this 5-second rule. Uh-huh. um. you released the book, I think, 2017, called The 5-Second Rule, and it's all. about, you know, well, you tell me what. it's about and where it came from. I.

know there was a rocket, you're watching. a rocket on TV. Um and that was a a little bit of the. initial inspiration, but where did this. come from and what is it? Well, so, you know, I I think I alluded. to earlier that um. it seems like. my version of personal development. requires me to fall into a hole or dig. one, and then I realize nobody's coming. to rescue me, and I'm if I want to get. out of the hole, I'm going to need to. build a freaking ladder. Um and so, at the age of 40, I found. myself in a place that I just never.

envisioned I would be. And that is uh I had my husband and I. had three kids under the age of 10, and. I was unemployed, and my husband had. been in the restaurant business with his. best friend, and the housing crisis hit, especially hit in the United States, and we found ourselves 800 grand in debt. because we had secured the restaurant. business like complete morons with our. kids' college fund, and our house, and. every credit card, and the home equity. line, and the cars, and everything.

And that's great when your business is. working, it's absolutely terrifying when. it's not. And so, I would wake up every. morning. just pinned to the bed with anxiety. And I became somebody that I barely. recognized. I was screaming at Chris. I. was drinking myself into the ground. I. the kids were missing the bus every day. I didn't have a job. I was hiding from. my friends. I hadn't told my family what. was going on. And and you know, the thing that's.

that's that's. interesting about being stuck in life is. that the fact is you know what you need. to do. That's the easy part. And if you don't. know what you need to do to improve the. situation then. Google it. There's approximately a bazillion videos. out there of people like you that have. been in the exact same situation. They. will walk you through how to There are. books you can buy. There are courses The. The what you need to do is out there.

It's the how. How the [ __ ] do you make. yourself do what you need to do? When. you are scared or overwhelmed or anxious. or hopeless or depressed or any of the. stuff that happens to you as a human? That's the hundred million dollar. question. And at the time I didn't have. the answer. I knew I needed to look for a job. I. knew I needed to stop screaming at. Chris. I knew I needed to get the kids. on the bus. I knew I needed to ask for. help. I wasn't doing any of those. things.

I was stuck in broken patterns and I. didn't know any of the things that we're. talking about right now. But one night, you know, I was sitting. there and I was watching TV and I was. telling myself tomorrow morning it's got. to be the new you. I was giving myself. that lame pep talk like Mel, you've got. to stop drinking. You have got to be. nice to Chris. You have got to pull your. [ __ ] together. You got to look for a. job. And by God woman, when that alarm. rings, you cannot lay there like a human. pot roast marinating in fear and staring. at the ceiling. You have got to get out. of bed, woman. And then all of a sudden,

this is divine intervention. The rocket ship launches across the. television screen, Stephen, and I say. that's it. That's it. Tomorrow morning, when the alarm goes. off, Mel Robbins, you're going to launch. yourself out of bed like a rocket ship. You're going to move so fast, you're not. going to be in that bed when that. anxiety hits. Now, it was either God or bourbon. One. of those two things gave me the idea, cuz it sounds dumb. Okay, Mel, you're. going to beat anxiety by moving fast. That sounds great. Well, the very next morning,

it was a Tuesday in February outside of. Boston, Massachusetts in 2008. The alarm went off. And I think a lot about this moment. because if I hadn't. done what I did that morning, my life would have gone in a totally. different direction. I'd probably be divorced, I'd probably. be an alcoholic, my family would be torn. apart, no idea what I'd be doing for a living.

or where I would be. And I. profoundly believe. that you are one decision away. from a different life. And that happened to me on a February. morning in 2008. The alarm rang. And. as soon as the alarm rang, I remembered. the idea of launching myself out of bed. And then I did.

what psychologists call. a bias towards thinking, and this window. opens up when you start to think about. what you need to do instead of doing. what you need to do. It's this window of hesitation that's. about 5 seconds long. A window of hesitation that defines your. whole life. Inside this window of hesitation. lives anxiety and procrastination and. fear and imposter syndrome and. overwhelm. All patterns of thinking, all.

patterns of feeling, all patterns of. behavior. that get triggered in this 5-second. window of thinking about what you need. to do. Because it's in the thinking that you go. from being present to all the patterns. kicking in and the coping mechanisms. that you have. And so for whatever reason, I started to. think about getting up and all the [ __ ]. started to come in. I don't feel like. it, how's it going to help, I don't want. to. For whatever reason, I just started counting backwards. 5 4 3 2 1.

and I stood up. And. I used it the next morning and the next. morning and by the third morning, I was kind of freaked out cuz I'm like, okay, this is working. This is weird. And I said, Mel, I made myself a promise. If at any moment, you know what you need to do, but you. don't feel like it,

just count backwards and let's just see. what happens. And so I started using it, Steven, this. little count backwards technique, 5 4 3. 2 1. No idea why it's working, by the way. Um in any moment, I'd see Chris, I'd. want to kill him, 5 4 3 2 1. All of a sudden, I'm calm. I can speak. to him from a more supportive place. Kids are irritating, 5 4 3 2 1, take a. breath and now I can be the mom that I. know I want to be. 5 4 3 2 1, I'm going. out the door to exercise. 5 4 3 2 1, I'm. picking up the phone and I'm networking. 5 4 3 2 1, I'm picking up the phone and.

calling my parents and asking for help. And slowly but surely, one decision at a. time using the 5-second rule. And the. 5-second rule is very simple. The moment. you have an instinct to move, you got to. do it within 5 seconds or your brain. will kill it. And counting backwards is critical. I now know why it works. When you count. backwards, 5 4 3 2 1, you interrupt. habit loops stored in your basal. ganglia. And the counting backwards requires. focus, so it awakens this sucker right. here, your prefrontal cortex.

It's referred to as a starting ritual in. habit research. A cheat code for your brain. And um. basically, I used it in secret for 3. years cuz I mean, what am I going to do? Tell people you can count to five and. you change your life? I mean, it sounds. ridiculous. Plus, I was just trying to. survive. I'm trying to like find a job. and. save my marriage and help my husband and. make sure my kids are okay and start to. pay our bills and make the ends meet.

And that's what I was doing. And one. thing led to another and um. word got out about it and people started. to write to me about it and um it has. now gone on to change the lives of. millions of people. We know of 111. people who have stopped themselves from. attempting suicide by counting backwards. 5-4-3-2-1. When I had a daytime talk show, an. entire wing of. um. nurses from an inpatient unit at a. psychiatric uh hospital in Philadelphia.

came to my talk show and explained to me. after the show that of all the tools. that they have. when they discharge somebody from an. inpatient commitment, that the. five-second rule is the most effective. thing that they have. except for medication, obviously, but. it's the most effective thing that they. have. because it's simple. Mhm. And you can remember it. And anybody can use it. And it works. And I think we make a huge mistake in.

life. We make the mistake of believing that. because our problems are big or because. our dreams are so big. that somehow the solution. to achieving. those dreams or to solving those. problems must be enormous, too. When in truth, it's the opposite. The larger the problem, the smaller the. solution. The bigger the dream, the smaller the. actions are that you need to start. taking.

Super compelling because that also. has a lot of similarities with your with. your new book. The High Five Habit. It does. Yeah. So, I'd love to hear the story of. of how this was born. And I imagine you. know, that that came out of as you said. a a low point in your life where you. were you were looking for. what you thought would probably be a. complex solution to a set of complex. you know, sort of problems and dynamics. in your life, but um the High Five Habit. is more centered around gratitude and. um.

I guess like self-appreciation. Is that. an accurate description of of that? Yeah. Like it's um. you know, even knowing what I know about. the Five Second Rule, I believe the High Five Habit is. a thousand times more powerful. And the reason why I say that is because. the Five Second Rule will help you break. patterns of behavior. It'll help you. push through fear. It'll help you take. action. It'll help you interrupt. thoughts. It will help you walk away from things, define boundaries. Um it's very. action-oriented. Overcome.

procrastination. Yeah. Overcome. procrastination. The High Five Habit works at a much. deeper level. It solves what I believe is everybody's. core issue and problem. And that is the issue and the habit of. hating yourself, of criticizing. yourself, of not liking yourself, of beating yourself up. And. as successful of as I've become and as.

much as I've accomplished, it wasn't until I stumbled into the High. Five Habit that I truly confronted the. fact that. in spite of all that success, I still. didn't like myself. I still judged the woman in the mirror. I was still in many ways betting against. myself by constantly beating the hell. out of myself, and it was a habit. And you know, we talked in the very. beginning about how we go from being. children that are wired to love. ourselves to the ways in which life can.

make you start to feel what's wrong with. me, and the ways in which your brain. starts to turn and filter the world in a. way where you see everything that you're. not and all the ways that you don't fit. in and all the things that aren't. working out. And that was exactly my. experience, and I think it's every. single human being's experience. I don't. care how successful you are. And so, the high five habit is very, very simple. And first, I'll tell you. what it is, and then I'll explain the. story. So, I'm on a mission.

to. get every single human being on the. planet. to add. high fiving themselves in the mirror to. their morning routine. That right after you brush your teeth as. ubiquitous as it is for people to brush. their teeth in the morning, let's get. rid of the skanky breath so you don't. drag it through your day. I want you to. literally wipe clean your mind, body, and spirit. so you don't drag generational gunk and. patterns into your day.

And it's that simple. Put down the. toothbrush, look at yourself in the. mirror, raise your hand, and send. yourself into your day. knowing that you have your own back, knowing that no matter what happens. today, you will be here. There to support you and encourage you, no matter what. Because you haven't been. And um the way I discovered it was um in. April of 2020. And you know, the backdrop doesn't even. matter. I mean, what was happening is a.

universal experience. I was just at a. moment where. I was overwhelmed by my life. There was a lot of [ __ ] going on in my. business. There was There's lot of stuff. going on in the world. Uh a couple of my. kids were really in a state of being. anxious and upset about things and I. just woke up morning after morning. feeling the weight of the world on my. shoulders. Feeling like if one more. thing happened, I just can't cope.

And. I think that that's something that we. all feel at times in our life. Whether. somebody just breaks up with you or you. lose a job or you don't get the funding. you wanted or you lose an election you. went for or you just. feel lost in your life or maybe your. parents are sick. Just this feeling of I. just can't take it. I I just don't know. how I'm going to deal with the demands. of my life and that was me. And so one morning I'm standing in my. bathroom. and I'm brushing my teeth and I'm there.

in my underwear and I look at myself in. the mirror and my first thought is. Oh. God. You look like. hell. And then I immediately. out of habit. start picking my appearance apart. I mean, look at the dark circles and. your gray hair and your saggy neck and. God, one boob is lower than the other.

You look like [ __ ] Mel. And the second your mind goes negative, you already alluded to this. It's like, you know, more negative thoughts climb. on and so then I drift into my day and. it's not like, yes, it's like, why did I. get up so late? And you got a Zoom call. in 8 minutes. I'm like, God, I haven't. even walked the dog yet and oh, I forgot. to text Steven back and just the beat. down begins. And I believe that my experience that. morning is everybody's experience. And I. know based on research that it is.

That we talk a big game about gratitude. and and meditation and morning routines, but we've skipped this one thing that's. happening in everybody's morning routine. and it's a habit of self-rejection. of self-criticism. And every human being has it. I kid you. not. And. standing there that morning overwhelmed. by life giving myself the morning just. kind of beat down and you know. negativity. I couldn't think of anything to say to.

myself and I wouldn't have believed it. anyway cuz I felt overwhelmed. And as pathetic as it sounds. I don't know what came over me. but for whatever reason again I think it. was probably divine intervention. I just. dog at my feet underwear on no bra I. just raised my hand. and I gave the woman in the mirror a. high five. because she looked like she needed one. That very first one a couple things. happened. I actually laughed cuz it was.

so cheesy. I now know that the reason. why I laughed is because your brain. drips dopamine. when you give somebody a high five. And then I felt like a a switch flip. And it wasn't like I was like yes. But I just felt myself go from this very. low state. I didn't even think any words but. energetically I felt myself go from. feeling defeated to sort of a like come.

on now. You got a roof over your head. It's not. that bad. Get your ass out. Like it was. kind of like that kind of tough coach. kind of mustering of an energy. But Steven it was the second morning. when everything broke wide open. So I wake up same problem same kind of. energetic depleted overwhelm. 5 4 3 2 1 I get out of bed. I make my bed. Um. and as I'm walking to the bathroom I'm. not even to the bathroom yet and then it. freaking hits me.

I realize I'm experiencing something. I've never felt in my entire adult life. And what I'm experiencing is this. When you go and you're about to meet. somebody at a cafe that you really love. and you're about to walk in the door, what are you feeling? Uh excitement, positive anticipation, um yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I felt that. about seeing myself.

Now, I've felt excited to see an outfit. or haircut. Hm. I don't ever recall as an adult. feeling excited. to see the human being Mel Robbins. Why were you excited? I was excited because. the experience of high-fiving yourself. is more than a gesture. It creates partnership.

And there's a sense that you're. returning home. The same way that a neighbor waves to. you and sees you, I knew that I would have that experience. with myself as soon as I rounded the. corner. and walked into that bathroom. Because what I realized that second. morning as I rounded the corner and. walked into the bathroom. is that there's actually two human. beings in the bathroom every morning.

There's you. and there's a human being in the mirror. And that human being is trying. and they've been there a long time. and they've been waiting for you to wake. up and to see them. They're tired of your constant. negativity. They're tired of you beating. them down. They need you to be more encouraging. They need you to be more celebratory. They need your support.

And when you finally. wake up. and create a moment with yourself. every single morning. where you look yourself in the eye. and you see yourself. and you forgive yourself and you honor. yourself. and you say I believe with this gesture. in you. It is this remarkably deep and spiritual. feeling.

of connection that you've been longing. for for a very long time. And so that second morning, you know, I'm realizing, holy cow, it's like this. sort of It's sort of like when you first. realize that the voice in your head. isn't you. And you have this whole paradigm shift. When you allow yourself. to understand the depth of what I'm. trying to teach you. there will be a paradigm shift.

that will fundamentally change how you. live your life. The hardest part is looking at yourself. 50% of men and women. cannot or will not. look at themselves in the mirror because. they're either disgusted or disappointed. with where they are in life. And if you cannot look at yourself in. the mirror. that is an act of self-rejection. That is an act of self-criticism. That. is an act of self-hatred.

That's not just a casual thing you're. doing. The rest of us that can look at. ourselves. what we do when we look at ourselves is. we focus on the things we need to fix. For most women putting on makeup is not. additive. It's not a creative. expression. It's covering something up. that you don't like. It's changing something that you think. is wrong. That action, that intention behind it, is self-rejection. It is self-criticism. It is self-hatred.

And for so many men, if it's not about. your appearance, it's about where you. are in life, what you've provided, how. much you've made, what car you drive, where you stand in your career, what. you've built, what you haven't, the. mistakes that you've made. So, you stand in judgment. And. what is so. groundbreaking. about the act of being where you are in. life, even with all that judgment or that.

weight or that shame or that regret or. whatever it may be that you carry into. the bathroom with you based on your. life, when you raise your hand to high-five. the human being you see in the mirror, your brain has neural association with. that physical action. The physical. action in and of itself is a positive. trigger for every human being on the. planet. Even if you are in a culture. where people do not high-five each. other, you have seen sports teams do it. You have seen viral videos with it. Your.

brain knows exactly what a high-five is. Just like everybody's brain knows. exactly what this is. You don't even have to say a word. because all of the positive programming. is already hardwired into your basal. ganglia and the physical action alone. triggers it. You know, you've never high-fived. somebody and thought, "I hate you. You. suck. You've blown your life. I hope you. lose the game. [ __ ] off." You've never, ever done it. It is neurologically impossible.

to stand in front of the mirror and. actually think something negative as. your hand is reaching the mirror because. your brain's not programmed to do that. So, when you high-five somebody, what. are What does the high five communicate? Well done, acceptance, congratulations, you did it, you can do it, let's do it. Um yeah, well done. It's collaboration, it's partnership, it's union. Mhm.

Mhm. If somebody's going through a. challenge, it's shake it off, you got. this, keep going. It is so many things, but it's all in belief and celebration. and being seen, all of which are your. fundamental emotional needs. Mhm. And so, the thing that's super exciting. about this is that we're taking. programming. that is already stored in your mind, body, and spirit, and we're just going. to aim it right back at you. Mhm. And the layers upon layers upon. layers of psychological proof, of.

research, of all kinds of evidence for. why this works goes so deep, it's. extraordinary. So, for example, the. physical action of high fiving, your. brain is already always giving you a. drip of dopamine. That's why you will. immediately feel a boost in your mood. It's why a lot of people laugh. The. other thing that happens is um you are. also tapping into wiring in your nervous. system that's celebratory. So, when you. cross a finish line, for example, or.

when your favorite team scores, what do. you instinctively do? Celebrate. Yeah, you raise your arms. Shout surprise, you. raise your arms. When you say hello, you. raise your arms. When you go to high. five somebody, you raise your arms. So, even on your lowest morning, when you go. to raise your arm to high five yourself, your nervous system taps into that. celebratory energy that we all so. desperately need in life. The other thing that happens that I love. about this is you don't need to say a. word. Because for many people who feel.

extraordinarily stuck and beaten down. and full of shame or regret, you. wouldn't believe any positive mantras. anyway, because you've got so much. evidence for why you're a screw up, why. things aren't working. But when you go. to raise your hand, the gesture does all the communicating. And it also taps into behavioral. activation therapy, which says, at its most simple form, act. like the person you want to become. That's not fake it till you make it, by. the way.

This is intentional. Intentionally act. like the person you want to become. Because when you intentionally act like. the person you want to become, your. brain sees you taking those actions, so. your brain starts to change the way it. relates to you. When your brain sees you high-fiving. yourself in the mirror, it starts to go, "Oh, wait a minute. Steven loves himself. Steven's cheering. for himself. We don't beat Steven up.".

Do you see a difference when you between. doing it with yourself and doing it with. someone else? Oh, it's night Well, it's night and day in that you've been. cheering for everybody else your whole. life. And when somebody else high-fives you, it feels amazing because you're getting. affirmed as a human being. It's. connection as well. It's connection. But. I believe you can create that same. connection with yourself. And what's happened for me is profound. I mean, I, you know, used to look in the.

mirror and on default pick myself apart. It was never enough. Didn't matter how. many millions of dollars I made, it was. never enough. I was no, no, no, no. And. I realize now, like so many. entrepreneurs, I had married achievement. with being worthy of love. That as long as I was achieving. something, then I was worthy of love. And that's also why we all tend to chase. achievement, because the second that you. get the first million in the bank, okay, now I got to do more. Because if you're not doing something, then who are you? And. in practicing the high-five habit for.

now more than a year, and researching it. for more than a year, in having hundreds of thousands of. people go through this thing that we. call the high five challenge. We've. released it to the public now for 34. days. We've had 136,000 people complete. it from 91 countries. Not a single. person, cuz we're tracking all the data. on it, has said it didn't work. Not a. single person. We have people writing to us about the. breakthroughs they're having with. depression, with anxiety, with suicidal.

ideation, with self-worth, with senses. of failure. Because it's the physical. action and the programming that exists. within you that go to work against the. patterns that are making you feel so. dark and stuck. And that's why this is. powerful. And so, after a year of doing this, what's amazing is I don't even see my. face anymore. I just see a person that I love. You know, being a parent, it's pretty. extraordinary.

Um, you have this experience when when. you become a parent or even a pet owner, right? Where you love this thing so. much, even when the dog poops on the. ground, you're angry, but you don't stop. loving the dog. When your kids screw up, you might be. annoyed or regret what they did, but you. don't stop loving them. But somehow we never figured out how to. do that for ourselves. That when we screw up, we stop loving. ourselves.

And we stand in judgment instead. And I think that's why life is hard. I. think that's why people don't feel. inspired and motivated. You want to. fix imposter syndrome and people. pleasing? Learn how to stand in front of the. mirror. Give yourself a high five. Demonstrate. that you like yourself. Demonstrate that. you accept yourself. Because if you like. yourself, you don't go out in the world and look. for other people to like you, because.

you don't need it. It's wonderful if. they do, but the fantastic thing is is. if you actually like yourself. If you. just accept where you are, you stop. judging yourself. You accept yourself. with some compassion. What's. extraordinarily powerful about it, Stephen, is that when you go out in the. world, if somebody else disrespects you, it doesn't change the fact that you. respect yourself. If somebody else. doesn't like you or love you, yeah, it. stings, it sucks, but it doesn't change.

the fact that you like or love yourself. That's your first foundation, right? That's your first foundation. And this high-five habit of standing in. partnership with yourself, demonstrating. through a physical action that you see. yourself, you support yourself, you got. you you got your own back. You like. yourself. You know you deserve to be. treated this way. It changes how you. show up in life. Quick one. As you probably know by now, I'm trying to make my life a little bit. more sustainable and I consider myself.

to be on a bit of a sustainability. journey, in the same way that I'm on a. health journey, and it's a privilege to. be able to share that with all of you. And you you'll know, if you've listened. to the last podcast, that I traded in my. Range Rover Sport in for an electric. bicycle, which is now my only vehicle, and next year, hopefully, I'll have my. electric car, too, if Tesla hurry up. with the Cybertruck. And that's where my. energy comes into my life and my sort of. sustainability journey. It makes your. life, if you are on that sustainability. journey, 10 times easier. This is one of. the If you can't see this, I'm holding. it in my hand if you're listening on.

Spotify or Apple. This is one of their. renewable energy products. If you're. watching on YouTube, you'll you'll. you'll see this. This is called the. Harvey. It's this very clever little. device that allows the Zappi and the. Eddi, which I've talked about before on. this podcast, to be installed into your. home without hard wiring or without. batteries or without those um god-awful. transformers that a lot of people have. in their house. It's basically a tiny. device that's going to save you both. time and money, and for someone like me. who doesn't have loads of time on our. hands, it's a real lifesaver. If you're.

looking to make a conscious switch and. you need a quick fix that's going to. save you a load of time, then head over. to myenergy.com to see this product and. many many more. A lot of self-help advice tends to. advise like looking in the mirror Mhm. and just like saying nice [ __ ] to. yourself. Like I am. strong and capable and I'll be a. millionaire and then like crack on with. your. If that worked, we'd all be. millionaires. But so that doesn't work cuz a lot of. people out there are like. isn't that how you made your millions? Didn't you just stand in front of a.

mirror and say, "I'm a millionaire. I'm. going to be a millionaire. I'm going to. be a millionaire." And then I went back. to bed. There's a lot of like that. narrative in society and this is like. It's [ __ ] It's interlinked with the. manifestation piece which is from what. I've a lot of the fluffy stuff that I. read is like you just got to think about. it. In fact, I had this argument with. this girl one day in New York where she. was like, "Steve, all you got to do is. think about it and it'll happen." And I. get So you don't believe there's any. work in No, just think about it. And I. was like, "I don't. That sounds like somebody with a trust. fund.

Yeah, and the the the the the the. analogy I often give is like if I just. did the satnav in my car and didn't put. the the key in and press the. accelerator, I would just be in my. garage all day. Like I understand the. importance of knowing where you're going. which is the satnav, but I also have to. drive. or else we're not going to move. Yeah, so um couple things. Positive mantras don't work. And they don't work because people pick. positive mantras that they don't. believe. So if you are.

in a studio apartment eating rice and. beans, barely able to pay your bills, standing in front of a mirror and. saying, "I'm a millionaire. I'm going to be a. millionaire someday.". What happens based on research is your. brain's like, uh actually, have you seen. where you live? Like have you seen that you've quit. every job that you've had? Have you seen. and heard your negative self-talk? I. don't I don't think this is going to. like your brain's like, "Uh-uh." And. your brain has a great [ __ ]. detector. Mhm. And so, the mistake.

people make is they pick a mantra. that is the exact opposite of the way. they treat themselves. Is it like So, the way that I've come to you maybe even. in the last 2 months is my brain. actually needs evidence. Yes. Right? And. like so And you know what evidence. wants? Once? It wants [ __ ] action. Right. Oh, yeah? Prove it to me. Behavioral. activation therapy. Act like the person. you say you want to be, and then maybe. I'll believe you. Yeah. Now, should you.

still interrupt the beatdown? Mhm. Absolutely. Absolutely, you should. What I'm saying. is you got to stop. beating the hell out of yourself. But you can't jump immediately to and. it's going to all magically disappear. Mhm. And I'm going to love my body after. beating myself for 20 years. Yeah. It's. not going to happen that fast. So, you. know, if you want to do mantras, do a. more pathetic mantra. You know, do. something that's like a little bit like.

more achievable. Like, you know, instead. of uh you know, I love my body after. trashing your body for 20 years, say, "I. deserve to be healthy." Mhm. Even if. you hate your body. anybody and any brain can get behind, "Yeah, you do. That's right. I'm glad. you're waking up. You do deserve to be. healthy." Mhm. Now, now prove it. Let's. take some actions that show you that. So, no, mantras don't work if you're. picking a mantra you don't believe, and. if you're picking a mantra that is the.

opposite of the way you treat yourself. in the actions you take. So, that's. number one. Number two, manifesting. Everybody has been sold a bill of goods. about manifesting. If you make a vision board with your uh. house on the ocean or you at the stock. exchange ringing the bell. And that's. all that you have on it. Science says that that vision board will. become a source of profound.

discouragement. Because over time, as you sit there and. stare at your dream house, or you. ringing the bell at Nasdaq, and nothing. in your life changes, you start to feel further and further. and further away from what you want, which makes you feel further and further. discouraged, which means you're less and. less motivated to even begin working on. it. Like the hardest part for everybody. is to start, and the reason why is not. only the patterns of procrastination and.

anxiety and stuff that you get trapped. in, but it's also because your goals. feel so far away. that you don't believe that just. starting is going to even chip away at. it. And so, number one, cuz it sounds. like I just contradicted myself. Yes, you need to have something like a. beach house, or the Nasdaq bell, or the. business you're starting, or the love. affair of your life, or the family. you've always envisioned, or the health. that you've always dreamt about.

Absolutely, swing for the fences. What. do you want it to look like 10 years. from now? But when it comes to manifesting based. on science, I want you to think as. manifesting as a bridge. Manifesting is a bridge that's made of. bricks. between you. and the thing that you dream about. And what you do when you manifest is you. don't manifest where the bridge is. going. You manifest the bricks.

So, a great example is a marathon. So, let's say that you've never run a day in. your life, but your bucket list is to. complete the London Marathon. Yes, you can put on your vision board. a photograph of a runner crossing the. London Marathon. You can even put the. dream that you have in terms of the the. number that you want the time to be, okay? But you better put a runner in the. rain up there. You better put an alarm clock that says. 4:30 in the morning cuz that's what time. you're going to have to get up in order.

to get your training runs in. You better put a runner that's gripping. their leg like this when they get a. muscle cramp. You better put up uh you. know, a vision of you at mile 13 and. your earbuds run out and you still got. two more miles to go. Visualization. is the bricks. And so what I want you to. do when you visualize is instead of. visualizing ah. the marathon, I did it, oh it was.

amazing. And then you open up you're. like, okay, and I still have not even. bought a pair of sneakers. That's not happening, but that was a fun. little exercise. No, what you do is you. literally visualize, walk into the store. and get sneakers. Call your friend who runs and ask for. advice. Oh my god, that's me on my first. training run. I've only gone 30 seconds. and I'm out of breath. Oh, there I am. running 3 miles in the rain and I feel. proud of myself cuz I've actually gone.

out in the rain. Oh, there I am saying. uh no to my friends, I can't go out. tonight cuz I didn't get my run in, but. I'm going to go on my big run alone. That like you visualize the annoying, irritating, amazing things. I'm sure. people look at you all the time with. your extraordinary success, Steven, and. are like, how'd you do it? How'd you do. it? And. Like, do you know how many things I. missed out on? Do you know how many like. how like the amount of work that nobody.

wants to do because they're not thinking. about it? Is extraordinary. That's the bridge. Mhm. Anybody is capable of achieving. anything. I actually believe that. because I think. human beings are designed to change. You're capable of breaking any pattern. You're capable of getting control of. your health. You're capable of launching. a business. You're capable of making. millions of dollars. You're capable of. healing your trauma, of finding love, of. doing absolutely anything.

that you put your mind to. As long as you are willing to do the. work for it and as long as you give up. your timeline. Because I do believe. that people who put in the work. get rewarded. But you just might not get rewarded when. you think you're going to be. And it. might not be the reward. that you thought you were going to get. Is that the case in your life? It's. always the case.

And that's why I always have big dreams. Because I have learned time and time and. time and time again, especially in. entrepreneurial ventures, that you put this huge flag out there. You write the business plan, you set the. goals, and then you put your [ __ ]. head down, and you put in the work, and you ride the wave, and you have the. disappointments, and you spend the late. nights, and you have the heartbreak and. the heartache, and then things change,

and then you think, "Fuck, this didn't. work out, and I got betrayed, and why. didn't they recognize me, and damn it, I've worked hard, and now I got to start. all over." And you have all of that, but. if you keep going, and you keep going, eventually you will look up one day and. be like, "Holy [ __ ]. This. is exactly. what I was meant to do and what I was. meant to discover. Yeah, my business. plan said I was supposed to go over.

here, and I ended up over here because this is. what I was supposed to do. But without this business plan, I never would have gotten started. The business plan was but a dot on the. map of my life. connecting me to where I'm meant to go. You know, I think one of the most. extraordinary things that has happened. to me in this past year, especially. now that I have this real partnership. with myself, where I have a.

level of trust. that through my attitude, through my. actions, through a sense of faith. that. it's going to turn out. That even when things are really hard, I. still believe deep in my core. that through my attitude and my actions, it's going to be okay. That I have within me the power to ride. the ups and downs and to come out on the. other side of it.

And. you know, I think that we've all had the. experience, Steven, of being able to. look backwards and say, "Whoa, you know, I wouldn't ever wish the experience that. I had. back in fourth grade on anybody.". But without that experience, I would not be able to help the amount. of people that I help. I would not be able to understand trauma. as a lived experience and inside and out. and at a layer that's so deep because it.

is an experience that I had in my life. Without 25 years of struggling with. anxiety, without having two kids that. have struggled with anxiety, I would not. know what I know about anxiety and be. able to help people, including my own. children. Uh I would not, without having made. mistakes uh with my kids and their. anxiety, be able to tell parents, "Do. not do this because I did this and it. made my kids' anxiety worse and I didn't. even know. And so I can see, you know, I can see.

how everything from, you know, working. as a public defender to being a legal. commentator for CNN to the number of. stages that I've been on to the number. of people that I've helped. I can see. how all of that comes together. to help me do what I need to do in this. moment. And I think one of the most powerful. things that you can cultivate when you. cultivate partnership with yourself. is being able every single day to have a. level of trust in your life.

in the magic of things, in yourself, to. know that this moment right now. is also a dot on the map of your life. And 5, 10, 20 years from now you will. look back on this moment. and you will know exactly why this. happened. And why it happened is it was preparing. you for something. It was giving you a skill or an. experience or some wisdom or a. relationship that you're going to need. for something extraordinary that's.

coming. And when you believe that. it gives you the strength to face. absolutely anything. When you look back on the person you are. now Mhm. and the tremendous wisdom that. you've just demonstrated just speaking. to me just then. do you recognize. the Mel that was. couldn't get out of bed, was feeling. depressed. couldn't find, you know, described. herself as you as you did as being lazy. Do you recognize that person? And what's.

at the very essence in the engine room. that drove that change? Was it. passion? Was it finding your calling? Um Cuz I know you weren't this you. couldn't have been this person when you. were younger. also been 31 years. I mean, come on. I've had a I've I've like basically been. changing for as long as you've been. alive for crying out loud. So, and also. human beings are designed to grow. Mhm. But not everybody seems to because you. have. Cuz they don't understand being stuck.

Yeah, interesting. See, being stuck is one of the most universal. feelings of the human experience. And. nobody understands what it is. What is it? Oh, it's amazing when you. hear this. It's like. So, remember how we've talked about how. uh the human beings have this crazy. amount of natural intelligence wired. into us. And inside your body, we've. talked about one of the signals, anxiety. Anxiety is a signal that means. pay attention.

That's why you're going to fight or. flight. You're in an alert mode, okay? That's all it is. It's a signal. An. alarm system. And your body has a. sophisticated. uh system of signals and alarms. And they're all tied to fundamental. needs. Anxiety is tied to your fundamental need. for safety. That's why it's a signal. Let's talk about your most important. fundamental needs. Let's go right back. to psychology 101, Maslow's hierarchy of. needs. Uh you need food or else you die.

So, when you need food, what is the. signal that your body sends you? Hunger. When you need water, what is the. signal? Thirst. When you need um uh. air? Yeah, you catching your breath. When you. need rest, what do you feel? I'm tired. When you need connection, what do you. feel? Lonely. Human beings are designed to grow. When you stop growing, what do you feel? Stuck. Yeah. I was I was going to say stagnant, but I guess stuck is yeah. Or stagnant.

Yeah. Or still. Trapped, I guess is yeah. Yeah. Feeling stuck is a signal that you've. stopped growing. That's it. And when most people feel stuck, since. they don't understand that it's tied to. a fundamental need for growth. We believe it's an existential crisis. and we blow up our lives. For most human beings, what actually. will get you feeling like you're not. stuck. is having something in the future that.

you're looking forward to. Or. taking a class where you're learning. something. or changing a routine so that you try a. new class at the gym. Learning anything gets you back in touch. with a fundamental need. It makes you. start to feel like things are moving and. from that place of feeling a little bit. more empowered. you'll be able to make better decisions. about what big things need to change in. your life.

And is that a moment you would also. describe that as a moment where your. life has like an absence of purpose? I think about I think about various. examples, Olympians that come back from. the Olympics and they they're like 80%. chance of depression after they've, you. know, you know, and then I think about. people who have, you know, lost purpose. in their lives for whatever reason, been. fired from their jobs or whatever, or. people that are in jobs that are, you know, absent of purpose completely. A feeling of being stuck and.

and then you said we talked also about. the importance of goals and ambitions. going forward when humans don't have. that that forward ambition or that thing. to look forward to in the future and. their current situation lacks purpose. They become very. psychologically. disorientated. Be the way I describe it. Mhm. Um I act- I have a different take. on purpose. Um. I think everybody's purpose is exactly. the same. What is that? I think your purpose. is to share your true self.

To be fully seen. And for the Olympian, when you are. training and you're in that arena, that is an experience of being seen. And for most people that are lacking. purpose, they feel profoundly invisible. Mhm. And being seen. fundamentally comes back to whether or. not you even see yourself.

And when you start to feel empowered and. you start to see yourself and meet you. where you are, what happens is every day that you're. able to stand with yourself, to accept. where you are, to give yourself the. compassion, to give yourself the support. and the love and the. respect and the worthiness that you. deserve, you're going to go out into the. world and share more of yourself. Mhm. That Olympic athlete is sharing more of.

themselves. And so I think our purpose in life is to. come back home to ourselves, to reconnect with ourselves, and to. empower ourselves to go back out into. the world and share our stories and. share our experiences and share our full. selves with the rest of the world. From a prehistoric standpoint, let's say. with you know, cuz I always try and like. check things against the the caveman of.

my you know, my ancestral beings. The. the idea of being seen when I was you. know, my ancestors 10,000 years ago, what kind of role does that play in. from a survival perspective, let's say. Well, I I mean I'm freestyling here, so. Okay. my suspicion is. if you were not within your mom's eye. view, Mhm. your ass was going to get. eaten. Mhm. And so I think that uh you. know, if you wandered off as a kid, you. were in danger. Mhm. If you weren't.

hunting with the pack, you were in. danger. And so being seen means safety. Mhm. And. that's why when you look at. psychological safety, there are three. fundamental needs. The need to be seen, the need to be heard, and the need to be celebrated. for the unique person that you are. Those are your three fundamental. emotional needs when it comes to feeling. safe and whole as a human being.

And most people's experience by the time. they are done with childhood is they. feel invisible, they feel like nobody gets them, and. they feel completely disconnected. and unloved or not celebrated. Makes a ton of sense. Yeah. So, I did. okay on that answer? Yeah, no, it's a. really really remarkable reframing. We. have a new tradition on the Diary of a. CEO, which is in the diary, the famous. Diary of a CEO, the previous guest.

always writes a question for the next. guest that's coming, and they don't know. who they are. Okay. And these guests are. so diverse, it's always so fascinating, and they never know who they're writing. it for, which is also interesting. The. previous guest wrote, "What is the one regret you have. if you have any at all?". Um. It's a. It's a tricky question because I'm one. of these people that doesn't want to go. back and change anything. I think. everybody is. According to the science,

we we had a Mo Gawdat CEO from Google. He talked about the eraser test, and he. said even people that have gone through. profound trauma, when asked the question. if they would erase the trauma, 99 plus. percent said no. because of the domino effect, you don't. know, you know. It's an interesting one. Yeah. Um you. know, like any behavior that hurt. somebody else, you know, anything that I did, whether. it was lied or cheating or, you know, just being an [ __ ] when I was just. trying to survive that unintentionally.

hurt somebody else. Mhm. Yeah, I wish that that wasn't part. of my story. Mhm. Um but But. I you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't. understand. at a profound level. that really well-meaning good people do. really shitty things when they feel. shitty about themselves. Mhm. And you know, if I hadn't done shitty. things when I felt shitty about myself,

I wouldn't. fully believe that. Mhm. And you might do that again, I guess, had you not done it once. Yeah. Yeah, or twice, or three times, or four. times. Like first you got to wake up, you know. And then there's all the. things that I did that I don't realize. hurt somebody else. Mhm. But you know, I know in my heart. that I was still a good person. I was just in a really bad place.

Which is, you know, why you do bad. things. Your relationship with yourself. is the foundation for everything in. life. And if you believe you're a bad person, you will tend to do bad things. And the opposite is also true. Mhm. If. you believe that you're a good person. who is worthy of good things, you tend. to do good things. Unbelievably true. My last question for you is one that I. tend to always ask people I meet that I. find to be incredibly wise Mhm. and very.

good at helping others. I mean, you help. hundreds of millions of people. combined, which is. do you still struggle with. all of the [ __ ] you talk about? Oh my god. Like all of. Yes. That's why I'm so [ __ ] relatable. I. do not have this stuff figured out. I am shoulder to shoulder with. everybody. Um. whether it's issues going on with one of. my kids, issues going on with one of me,

you know, with Look, you know, just the. other night uh. I mean, I'm this is what happened. I. self-published the audiobook. Yeah, okay. And um which is amazing cuz I'm a. smart [ __ ] I own my rights. Is. this book self-published? Oh, no, no, this one I did a joint. venture on the publishing, but I own all. of the audio. Amazing. And um cuz the. Five Second Rule is self-published and. it's the number one selling. self-published audiobook in the history.

of audiobooks. The book is. self-published, though. Oh, smart. And um which is why I need to get into. NFTs because my I don't like it when. somebody else has control. I as an. artist want to own what I do. As a. businesswoman, nothing pisses me off. more than getting into a dumb deal. And. then I resent the people that I'm in the. deal with because I didn't negotiate. properly. And if you believe in what. you're doing, you better own your work, you better understand the long-tail. payoff of your work because nobody will.

market your work better than you and you. will be profoundly pissed off when. somebody else is making their money 100. years from now. And for every author. that's that's listening, make sure you. look at Amazon. relatives of uh what's-his-face who. wrote the Seven Habits of Highly. Effective Whatever, they're the ones. collecting checks on that cuz that book. is still hitting. So, you want to be. like Mariah Carey. She laughs all the. way to the bank whenever Christmas rolls.

around because of that song. And so, you. know, I uh self-published the audiobook. I have a tremendous partnership with. Audible. um where we create a lot of original. content for them behind their paywall. And I self-published this book and we. destroyed. it in sales the month of October. The. number one selling audiobook, period, hands down, of any book that was. published, period. AP reported it, everybody reported it,

and then the New York Times comes out um. in November, and they uh rank the top 10. audiobooks. of the month of October, and they deliberately. left me off. And when that happened, I. punched the wall, I drank a gin martini, I lit up a joint, I called a couple friends and bitched, and I immediately got triggered, because.

I went right back to the experience of. being a ninth grader on the tennis team. and having the seniors throw a party, and I was the only ninth grader who. wasn't involved. And so it triggered a. very old pattern that I thought I had. [ __ ] gotten rid of, which is I'm an. outsider, nobody likes me, I'm always having to sneak in, why am I. never invited, why am I not part of the.

cool kids, why am I not for you know, like it's that old stupid ass story that. got triggered. And so of course this. [ __ ] happens. It happens all the time. And I just happened to talk about it, because I don't like feeling these. things, and I find that just trying to. shove it down makes the next time it. happens get even bigger. And so I share this stuff because I. think holding it in. is what's creating. a lot of anxiety and regret and upset.

and stuckness for people. We are all so. the same. And the more that, you know, I kind of. share the ups and downs, I think the. more people listen to the things that. are working and try them out and tweak. them for their own life. And look, if I. can save anybody the heartache and the. headaches I caused myself, that's a life well lived. You know, if I can laugh at myself along. the way, if I can punch a wall and drink.

a gin martini and then share with you. like, "Okay, this and then get out.". Because how I got out of that. cuz I could have been in that cycle, the. old Mel would have been there for a. month. "Everybody's out to get me. I never get. recognized. Why even bother? It doesn't. matter.". And. it allows me to share in real time. that I feel all the [ __ ].

But I don't like to stay there. And this. is not toxic positivity. It is important. when you're disappointed to allow. yourself to feel disappointed. It is. important when you lose something to. give yourself the grace to grieve for as. long as you need to. It is important to. have a good cry, to have a good scream, to draw It's important to feel the highs. and the lows. You're meant to feel it. all. But you can.

shorten. the length of time you stay down. And what always helps me, it's something. that, you know, I I developed when the. high five the the five second rule. launch was coming off the rails. As I just kept saying what I what I've. said. a couple times during this. I I say to. myself, I refuse to believe. that if I'm a good person. and that if I'm working hard,

I refuse to believe that this doesn't. work out. I refuse to believe that I'm not going. to be okay. Like I know. that this moment's going to pass and I. know that I will look back on this. moment 5 years from now, and I'll see. exactly what I was meant to learn. And what I was meant to learn, I already. know. Is that I have got to once and for all. stop looking for validation in old. institutions.

If I truly want to be an artist on my. own terms, don't even pay attention to. that [ __ ] Because it doesn't matter in. the world that we're living in now. It. doesn't matter if you really want to. make impact. Because the person that's struggling is. the person that you want to reach. Not the person that's deciding who gets. on some stupid list that's printed in a. paper. And redirecting your focus to what. actually matters. And the fact that you believe in your.

heart that you got the mindset, you got. the work ethic, you got the ability to. figure this [ __ ] out and to keep going, and that eventually if you do, what's. meant for you is going to find you, you. will be rewarded for all this in the way. that you're meant to be rewarded, that's amazing. It's an amazing feeling. because you can pick yourself up no. matter what happens. Well, thank god you do share it because, you know, you're a very special human being and. there's very few in the world that have.

the the genius of the skill stack, the. way it's kind of the how I I see it that. you have where they're able to go. through things in life, analyze them, understand them from a psychological and. scientific perspective, from an sort of. intrinsic internal perspective, and then. a be a a masterful orator in sharing. that in a relatable honest way that. helps others to change their lives and. find find the peace they're looking for, find the the outcomes they're searching. for. There's very few that can do that. with such genius. So, That's a that's a.

beautiful compliment, and thank you for. saying that. I really appreciate it, and. I can hear it. For the first time in my. life I can hear it. And you've also. given me this like extraordinary insight. that I just got. Um. So you asked me in the beginning. kind of what is it that that created all. of this insight or this drive to figure.

it out. I think I just figured it out. You You. just [ __ ] did it. I just figured it. out. I spent so long. being dysregulated. having a nervous system that was. constantly. on edge. Like what it felt like to be me. any moment in my life, whether I was. sitting in a classroom or I was sitting. at that law firm bait stamping, or I'm. sitting uh as a young mom with.

postpartum depression, or I'm sitting in. yet another job I don't like, is it felt like being in a car. at a stoplight that had a green signal. and the emergency brake was on and the. gas was floored and I was going nowhere. Like just the engine revved and the. sense that I needed to go but not being. able to go. And. when I finally started to get control of.

my own thinking. when I finally started to understand. anxiety and how to quiet it in my mind. and then how to quiet it in my body, when I finally got serious about. understanding trauma. and healing it in my nervous system. first. through EMDR, through therapy, through. guided MDMA sessions,

I finally had the experience. of being in my body. and being safe and being okay. And I hadn't had that in a really long. time. And um. I'm so. aware of when I'm not in my body now. I'm so aware of when my nervous system. starts to go on edge. that my tolerance for staying there is.

zero. Because I lived for far too long feeling. on edge, anxious, disregulated, self-loathing. That when I dip into that. space and everybody, you dip into that. space once a day, if not like I used to. live there. And so when I start to dip into that. disregulated, anxious, on edge, intense. space, it's like, get this out of my body. We.

got to get back into my new default, which is grounded, centered, in control of what I'm thinking, what. I'm going to do next. And it's a fluid situation. But you just. gave me the insight as to why it's so. quick for me now. Because I've made a. commitment to myself that after spending. 30 years that way, 40 almost, that I. don't want to live another year that.

way, another week that way, another full. day that way. Now, do I have things that. happen in my life that are. tough, that that put me into a mode. where I'm anxious and on edge and of. course. Do I disassociate when I get. really awful? Of course. But I now have. the tools. to bring myself back into my body, to give myself the encouragement, the.

assurance, the support that I need. so that I can face whatever's happening. and know that I'm not only going to be. okay, I'm actually going to be awesome. eventually. That's beautiful. And um yeah, I got a. little bit emotional there too. I am. I'd also I'm sad that you figured that. out. Um. and you're also helping a lot of other. people figure that out in themselves, which is. a remarkable I mean, it's the highest.

service I think any one human being can. do for society is to do what you're. doing at the moment. And yeah, I you. know, I if only there were more forces. in the world like you. I really I was. thinking as you were speaking, I was. thinking this. this woman really is a force in the. world and I I mean nothing can stop you. I really believe that. I was thinking. nothing is you've got too much too. strong, too much too much intrinsic. drive that's coming from a lot of the. sort of traumas and experiences you've. described, nothing can stop you. No. inclusion on any list is going to stop. you. Probably only add to the to the the.

coal fire inside of you. So. that's. everything better just get out the way. Thank you so much for the time, the. honesty, the openness, the inspiration. For many a year I've I've seen you going. way back into the viral video days on. Facebook where you'd come up all the. time in my feed and I'd say, "Who's this. person?" and "What's this thing she's. talking about jumping out of bed?" and I. was like, "Fuck." You know, and then I. was trying you know, trying it myself. and it was working for me. So it's such. a huge honor and I that's the word I use. sparingly, but in this case it's. perfectly adequate to to sit here with. you and to.

um spend some time with you and it's. time I won't forget. So thank you. Thank. you. Oh. Oh.