Matthew Hussey: The Secret To Building A Perfect Relationship | E142

could you do me a quick favor if you're. listening to this please hit the follow. or subscribe button it helps more than. you know and we invite subscribers in. every month to watch the show in person. think of james bond in real life barely. says anything not a hint of humanity. this would be a terrible person to have. a relationship with and we've been. taught that that's what women want. number one youtube channel in the world. for dating and new york's times. best-selling author matthew hussey let's. begin we have to dispense with this idea. that the one exists someone becomes the.

one by what we build with them any. commitment long term requires true. effort i had an issue with my head and. my ear it created the darkest moments of. my entire life. i'd always found whatever was going on. in my life i could fix it. i couldn't fix it. if i removed it what would i remove from. matthew hassou. imagine that you're not being judged on. anything but how great a chef you are we. spend so much of our lives mourning our.

ingredients don't aspire to have the. best ingredients aspire to be the best. chef. so without further ado. i'm stephen bartlett and this is the. diary of a ceo. usa edition i hope nobody's listening. but if you are. then please keep this to yourself. [Music]. matthew. before we started recording we were. having a conversation about how the.

thing that gets you your glory in your. own words can often be your downfall. and it always tends to be the case that. the start of everyone's journey. especially when i sit here with people. that i consider to be anomalies like you. there tends to be some kind of anomalous. um. situation or trauma or exacerbating. factor that they can point to and say. that was probably. the the poke from life or the thing that. happened in my early years that resulted. in me becoming the man i am today have. you been able to identify exactly what. that is in your own life.

i think so. to a large extent i mean we had a lot of. financial insecurity growing up and. i never knew if everything was going to. be okay or not. for me it was usually it started out as. a major. bid for control. i wanted control over my situation. and. i. i remember we were living in a in a. trailer at one point in my teenage years.

and you know things were you know a. certain way at home and you know i. everyone loved each other but it was. there was a lot of tension as you can. imagine. and. i i remember going into school and. saying i'm. you know. i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do that. and i would speak so. forcefully and aggressively. about where i was going. but it and what was funny is there was a. i remember a girl at school who had.

never noticed me before. um. one of the popular girls she said my mom. wants me to marry you. and i said. i said why she said because she thinks. you're going to be rich. which. so for me. even though it's a fairly shallow thing. to say. there was something about that that was. interesting to me at the time because i. thought oh my god i. i've never been. further from that reality. but from the way i'm talking someone. really believes me.

someone really believes that i'm going. to be something or i'm going to go. somewhere. but at the time i it what it really was. was i was just. afraid and didn't want to be at the. mercy of. of life didn't want to be at the mercy. of. whatever i had in my head as the the bad. out there that could come and get you if. you didn't. get control. and. and i think most of my early adult life. was defined by.

an obsessive need for. control. when people say that to me i often. presume that that meant something was. out of control. well i think for me as a kid it was. because i felt like there were problems. when we had financial difficulties i. felt like there were problems i couldn't. solve. i wasn't. they were too big i wasn't able to do. anything about them. so. as i. as soon as i got the chance to go out. there and do something.

that that became a kind of. obsession. and i think by the way combining that. with an insecurity. that i was just. desperate to feel. special in some way. desperate to feel important in some way. so. you know i defined normal as bad. whatever normal is and i always felt. like i had to do something different. i had to do something that was you know.

when i was a when i was a i. my dad when i was a kid he owned a. nightclub. and i was a dj in that nightclub from 14. years old um he was a dj when he first. bought that nightclub uh he went in. there well actually the nightclub needed. a dj and they didn't have one so he. started djing that was how he became a. dj. and. and then through my teenage years i did. that but but i didn't just dj for fun i. mean i was like. you know while all my friends were going.

to parties and doing that kind of thing. i was always the one djing the party i. was always the one working i was always. the one when everyone was going home at. 2am i was going home at 2am to unload. the car and all of the equipment and you. know it but in my head i think it was. still coming from that place of. it was it was ambition but it was. ambition i think driven by a kind of. insecurity. control and i just wanted to feel. special. what was your relationship like with. with women in your early years so like.

when you're 16. odd years old and we start to get those. first sort of. we think they're real but uh real. heartbreaks crushes romances. i was shy. i was i was quite it's not that i wasn't. i was. a likeable teenager i was. i was good with people to the extent. that i was. i was kind i wanted to be liked i wanted. to be close to people. i kind of got on with everyone at school.

like there was no one there was no group. that i belonged to necessarily i could. hang with the guys who played football i. could hang with the guys who you know. played dungeons and dragons there was no. one there was no one that i didn't like. or get on with. but i. when if it came to someone i thought was. attractive. then it was i couldn't. i i could not be my. fun self my best self my confident self. then i would kind of freeze up.

and that was. sort of you know in a way. i was. how old was i i was about 11 or 12 when. i first picked up how to win friends and. influence people off my dad's bookshelf. my dad was always into self-development. so i picked up that book and i was. i was. really immediately taken by this idea. that you could. be better with people. and that there were skills you could. learn that weren't necessarily the.

things we were being taught in school. that that really could magnify your. impact or the opportunities that you. were able to have access to. and. as a teenager one of the ways that that. sort of manifests itself is oh i might. be able to talk to a girl i like. so. that was one of my early kind of. self-development journeys for myself. was just trying to get the courage to be. able to talk to someone that i liked.

because i realized early on oh the. the girl that i'm dating right now chose. me. i'm dating her because she happened to. be the one who. asked me out or at school whose friend. came and asked me out on her behalf. and that's why i'm. dating this person right now it's not. because i. went to choose who i liked is because. someone decided they like me and i said. well i'm not going to have the. confidence to go and talk to someone i. really like.

so i guess i'll say yes. and that was sort of i would say that. defined my early. sort of teenage years with girls when. you in your late teenagers what was your. i want to be this when i grow up what. were you thinking that your career was. going to be when you were 18 years old. at one point i thought i'm going to do. this djing thing this is going to be my. life and. my dream was kind of i loved. self-development i really loved i i was. 14 when i got.

taken to a tony robbins seminar really. in england. at the excel center. when i think of the people in society. generally that. are seen as special and important and. have the admiration of crowds it's. definitely the first two things that. come to mind is like tony robbins and dj. well i loved i loved music. that was something that. really is a. that's always been true in my life i've.

always loved music even at my events. today music play a big part plays a big. part because i've just never lost that. love. but i also just love ideas there's. nothing more fun to me than just. discussing an idea but did you love the. the attention. and the admiration. yeah probably i know i did i i think i. still there's a part of me that. that can be hijacked by that. what are the symptoms of letting the ego. drive for too long.

i think. firstly living in a constant state of. never enough. living in a state of fear that you'll. never. be enough. and feeling. ultimately disconnected. from. from from the results of things. from how good things are already. and. and when you when you achieve that thing.

there is a. ultimately. uh. a scary moment awaits because it's not. it's not just a numbness there is a. there is a feeling of total. disconnection and when that happens. panic sets in. and it's a terrible feeling it's a. terrible feeling because. it then you really freak out because as. long as you're telling yourself. yeah life is really hard now but when.

that happens it won't be so hard as long. as you're telling yourself that what you. have to hold on to is hope. and the hope will drive you even if. you're unhappy today. but when you arrive and it doesn't work. then hope goes away. matt damon won the the oscar at 27 for. good will hunting. and graham norton i always remember. watching this interview where graham. norton said to matt damon on his show. you know.

how does it feel. when you were 27 and you won an oscar. something people worked their whole. lives to do how did you feel. he said i went home. my girlfriend. went to bed or went to sleep and graham. norton joked like so you didn't even get. laid on oscar night. he goes my girlfriend went to sleep. and i laid in bed and i i had this oscar. in my hand and i just felt so sad.

because i imagined this. this version of me. kind of in a parallel universe that had. worked his whole life to get this. and then realized. 70 years later that this wasn't it this. wasn't the thing that worked. um. and so i think that when when that ego. is driving and that ego is never fed. it's always hungry it's always wanting. more. um there is there is the danger of just. constant.

comparison nothing ever being enough. and ultimately anytime you do get. something you think might be enough you. feel completely and utterly disconnected. from the result after. the initial high. of it which is no different from a drug. fix here's the hard part because we've. heard this a thousand times we all think. that. you know i get it i get it when you get. money it's not gonna make you happy when. you get status that's not gonna make you. happy when you become known that's not. gonna make you happy we all.

we all can regurgitate that. and then five minutes later we're back. to chasing it in our own lives. and and what's curious to me is how do. you take something that is a. bumper sticker. phrase. and turn it into a kind of meaningful. practical way of. living and reconnecting so that you. don't fall prey. to not taking that advice that we all. can.

say it because it sounds good. how do we do that. i. if you have a hazard i guess. i'll tell you well i'll. i'll talk about what. i do. i'm i firstly. am very. aware of the simple things that make me. happy. and i. i have them written down i was saying to.

you before we started i'm a big note. taker i'm someone who. i believe winston churchill said people. occasionally stumble over the truth. but most pick themselves up and carry on. as if nothing happened. well. i would say the reason i write so much. when i feel something if i feel. something good if i feel an emotion that. i like. whether it's peace. or happiness or i feel connected. or i feel love. for something or someone.

i don't anymore just pick myself up and. keep going when i stumble over an. emotion like that i i pause life. i go okay hold. on what's happening right now. why am i feeling this. i can just kind of treat emotions as an. accident. or i can try to bottle them. and figure out what's my formula. for getting to this feeling of peace i.

feel peaceful right now. i don't feel peaceful a lot. this isn't like my tendency is towards. anxiety. i don't feel peace a lot so when i feel. peace i want to know how i got here. how did i stumble into this wonderful. room. and i look at it i go what's going on. around me. what was i just thinking about. that led to this thought that led to the. thought that. what what was the chain of thoughts that.

got me here who am i with right now. what did i just do. because what i want is a formula for. getting back there again. an hour from now when life does its. thing because it will five minutes later. life will do its thing i'll read an. email i'll get a phone call. someone will say something that annoys. me and there is it's gone. i need a place where i can get back to. that and i need that formula. so i i call these emotional buttons.

i have a list of emotional buttons in my. phone on my computer. and i teach this on my retreat. but it started from this was selfishly. just something i did for me and to this. day. is i'm always suspicious when someone. teaches something. but you never see them using that thing. you never see them doing that thing. i because not because that makes them a. hypocrite it just i feel like how. important can it be if you don't do it.

this emotional buttons concept i live. this concept because. when i wake up in the morning what i do. is i immediately wake up and i look at. these little formulas. and usually there's one thing that. kind of triggers that formula. if i can the reason i call them. emotional buttons is because. if there's if there's one. idea or thought. or youtube video. or person even an idea of a person if.

there's one thing that can connect me to. that formula. then. i can get there instantly. so like i don't know um. anthony bourdain who who i really. loved he did jujitsu and he was really. really into it. i do jujitsu most mornings when i wake. up and do jiu jitsu i don't want to do. it. i really don't. i'm so hot every time i come home from.

doing it i'm like i'm so glad i went. that was so good i'm so why don't i do. this all the time. i almost. never feel like going. and. therefore i have emotional buttons that. get me to. to want to go to jiu jitsu i have these. little triggers one of them is a. two-minute youtube video where anthony. bourdain is being asked about jiu-jitsu. and he speaks about it and the way he. speaks about it.

and because i feel connected to him as. an individual it makes me go. oh i want to go. i want to go. or there was a rich role had a phrase. mood follows action. and that one phrase became an emotional. button for me because i went oh mood. follows action this is so great i don't. need i don't even need to feel. like going before i go do you write your. emotional buttons down somewhere yes yes. in your notes or something yes you say. jiu jitsu this is my exactly exactly.

it gets that specific for me that they. become a kind of manual. for living for me now the reason i say. all of this even though this might seem. disconnected from the idea. of uh. of not allowing ego to rule and being. connected to what's important. is. is that this whole concept what it's. really about is being connected. in life. what i experienced a lot in my 20s which.

was really scary at a certain point. was. on paper i'm doing everything that i. thought i wanted to do. i. when i was a teenager i was. i was reading self-development books and. talking about them for fun. i'd grab uni mates and be like let me. tell you about this thing that i just. read and i'd have some very patient. friends at uni who would be like tell me. more that's really interesting. i would do that just for fun.

at 27 i'm doing it for an audience of. millions of people. with a best-selling book and tv shows. and all these things i'm doing this. on the most incredible level this thing. that i would do for free for fun. and i can't feel it why can't i feel it. what's happening. and. i had someone once say to me at the time. you're disconnected.

and at the time i just couldn't i. couldn't even i didn't even know what. that meant. i just said i don't i i'm not i feel. somehow like i'm on the outside of my. own life. and. and what i've come to truly believe in. at my core. is that. so much of life is just about getting. connected when when we. you know whether it's simon sinek. talking about the power of why.

or anybody who's saying you need to find. your motivation or. it all ends up being about the same. thing really which is. are you connected. do you feel connected to why this thing. you're about to do whether it's a. conversation with a friend or a podcast. or going to the gym. do you feel connected to why. that's even important to you. not important in the world and blah blah.

blah everyone wants to change the world. why it's important to you. what makes it meaningful. to you. that level of connection a friend of. mine aubrey marcus put it. i don't know whether it was his or. someone else's but he put it as being on. the inside of the moment. when there's a moment happening do you. feel like you're on the inside. of the moment. or do you feel like you're on the. outside looking in.

and and. every day i wake up and the first thing. on my on my best days there are days. where life gets in the way and i rush. straight into work and i always pay the. price for that when i rush straight into. work and emails and and all of that i. pay the price for that. but more often than not. the way i start my morning is to wake up. i. get out my emotional buttons. the things that remind me what's. important to me and what makes me feel. good and connect me to those things.

and i read those and i write sometimes i. just write them out again. i don't get creative i just i just write. them out again and as i write them i. connect to them again. and i play beautiful music i play music. that makes me feel really connected and. usually not with words just just. a track as an instrumental. and that process. immediately begins my day with a feeling. of. of being on the inside of my life. instead of waking up and getting dragged.

through my day. when we think about the things that make. people disconnected from their lives or. causes them to live on the outside of. the moment because i was as you were. saying that i was thinking about the. listener and i was thinking there's. going to be so many people listening to. this now that have. you know veered off course of alignment. they've been dragged they're good you. know there's something called the i. think it's called the excellence. syndrome or something or the curse of. excellence where you're so good at. something. that people start paying you more and. more to do it and you keep accepting the.

money and what you're what you're not. ever asking yourself is you're being. paid more and more to do this thing that. you were good at or you were qualified. in is is it in alignment with myself you. get 10 years down the line and people. have these like mid-life crises or. burnout because they're so far from. themselves but the temptation or the. money or the the applause was able to. drag them away. um. from your from your personal experience. what was it that was dragging you out of. alignment we talked a little bit about. our ego there but was there anything. else that we haven't covered where you.

go that is the thing that keeps drifting. me off course. it's interesting because i remember i. was thinking as you're talking as well. about the study about the impact money. has on our motivation and you can take a. task as you you know you're a kid and. you like doing personal development you. can take a task that someone once loved. doing and when they introduce. financial remuneration in the studies. people's motivation to do that exact. same thing drops. it's mad isn't it mad. yeah makes no sense well there's a um. there's a study that involves two rats.

one of them is on a wheel. that. it controls. the the rat can run whenever it wants to. run. there's that's right a rat b. is on another wheel but rap b's wheel is. hooked up to rat a's wheel. so. rat b doesn't get to decide. rat a. whenever that rat runs.

rat b's wheel moves and rat b has to run. they're both doing the exact same amount. of exercise. but. the results of the experiment are the ra. a has all of the markers. associated with. all the positive markers associated with. exercise. rat b has all of the negative markers. associated with stress um. they're both running the exact same.

amount they're not do one's not doing. more exercise than the other but one is. choosing. and the other one is having to. when we start to think that we're no. longer choosing. when we're now having to do something. it could be the exact same thing. that we were doing before we used to be. rat a. but now because it made money and with. that money we went and. bought a house and we got an expensive.

mortgage and we got the car and we did. this we did that or we just had the. expectation now because our identity is. built on earning that much money so it. might not even be the stuff that's. weighing you down it's your identity. that's weighing you down and the. perception you want other people to have. of you or retain of you. that now has turned you into rat b. you're no longer choosing. this thing. so i'm fascinated by that. idea and and i think that.

as much as there will be people in life. listening to this who. have maybe grown tired of what they're. doing. and therefore have concluded that they. need to do something else. sometimes that's true. sometimes it's reconnecting. with what you do. from a different place. and there are a lot of people that have. convinced themselves that. happiness lies in a career change.

happiness lies in them going in a. different direction. and we when we do that we glorify. everyone else's job. we think everyone else does a better job. than me everyone else has something more. exciting going everyone else has. something that oh i wish i was where. that person is. but. that's not true either. there was an imagineer at disney who who. was one of the main imagineers. responsible for a lot of animal kingdom.

in disney world. and he got asked do you ever not feel. excited about a project you're given. and he said sure he said but my job is. to find. what's exciting. about the project i just got given. and i think there's something important. in that because we're often seeking. passion elsewhere instead of. creating the passion. where we are i'm not saying every job is. made equal. in terms of its ability to.

allow you to do that. but i do think that um. there's a lot more room to. there's a lot more room to experience. passion within the confines of where we. already are than we think when we're. constantly trying to change our. environment to make things better. one of the three lines of like i guess. business but life in general and also. with relationships is and i really. wanted to ask you this because it's. something that i've seen in my dms from. people people sometimes message me about. relationships and one of the things that. i find concerning when i meet someone in.

their personal development journey or in. my dm's talking about their boyfriend or. in other facets of business is when i. identify a lack of. personal and self-responsibility where. you meet certain people in life where. they just can never seem to take. responsibility they never want to like. look in the mirror and ask themselves. the question what role have i played in. this and i sat with lewis in london on. this podcast about a week ago or two. weeks ago something and one of the. things that really astounded me about. lewis was when he said something about. his ex-partner.

even if it was it seemed like a fault on. the surface he would say and that's on. me and then end the little the paragraph. with why he was responsible even if it. was like you know she wouldn't let me. have females on my podcast or something. like that then he'd say and that's on me. and i remember thinking damn this guy's. gonna go far. so what role have you seen that part. taking personal responsibility has on. the the positivity of your outcomes.

in dating life business and everything. in between. well i think that. to start with it it makes you a much. more likeable person amen. the idea of extreme ownership. is a in some ways powerful. but. we all know there are things that have. happened in life that. are not our fault at all there are. things that we trauma we have. experienced that it would be. insulting. to say that.

we have to take responsibility for these. things. uh it would be sinister in some cases to. suggest that. but. if we can get into the habit of. genuinely saying. you know how this how this is affecting. me is something i can take. responsibility for and if i do it. actually gives me a shot at feeling. better about this thing it actually. gives me a chance.

of. improving it because if i if i say i'm. powerless. then i can't have it both ways. i can't say i'm powerless and none i i i. have no responsibility over how i feel. and then make it better. i have to say. okay this thing is happening it's not. that it's happening is not my fault that. someone is making my life really really. difficult right now with what they're. doing their behavior. their abuse their whatever.

that is not my fault. but. i want to get really curious. about how i can. handle this. in a better way in a more productive way. and the one of the things our mutual. friend louis howes who you're talking. about one of the beautiful things about. him. both. in front of the camera and behind the. camera. is that he is lewis is not a complainer. lewis is someone who.

he'll talk about the things that that. he's struggling with right now or he'll. talk about the things that he's trying. to work on. but it's never from a place of being. the victim. it's always from a place of what what. can i do. which i think is different people i. think what part of the problem for a lot. of people is they conflate the idea of. ownership with fault. and. and that takes us into some really. dangerous territory it it's not your.

fault that something's happening. but. you can take responsibility for. how you. how you turn that into art. i i thought about um. i thought about confidence a lot. in my career. and the injustices of confidence right. because the. we are not distributed things equally in. life you're not distributing things.

equally at birth we're not distributed. opportunities equally. you know it's super easy for anyone. who's. objectively decent looking to talk about. you know. how easy it is to go and approach. someone or do this or do that and you're. like. you cannot even imagine. what it is for someone who has been. rejected their entire. lives. they are starting from a completely. different position than you in their. confidence it's so easy for someone to.

say you just need to be confident okay. start from where i'm starting from and. then tell me that. you know. the. confidence is a really. again it can be a very insulting concept. but i do believe. that that there's a i there's a tv show. called chopped and i i'm probably i'm. not familiar with the show but so i'm. probably going to get wrong the concept. but in my head the concept of this show.

is very very. interesting from the point of view of. confidence. i think. the chefs get given different. ingredients. so. you you it's like just. lucky dip what do you get. what's interesting is. if you get a basket of ingredients and i. get a basket of ingredients. we're both getting judged on what we. make of those ingredients. in that format it's what are you able to. do with what you have and what am i able.

to do with what i have. and i think there's something really. fascinating about that because we spend. so much of our lives mourning our. ingredients. really being upset or frustrated about. what the ingredients are that we were. given. imagine that you're not being judged on. anything but how great a chef you are. because that show isn't about. ingredients it's about chefs. well imagine life isn't about.

ingredients it's about chefs. don't aspire to have the best. ingredients. aspire to be the best chef. and the best chef. is going to be the one who can be the. most creative. with the ingredients that they have. i i'm fascinated by that because if i. apply that to my own life i just go. whatever thing that just happened i wish. didn't happen. whatever thing that's happened to me. this year that is so painful.

so devastating so whatever whatever that. thing is. it just became a new ingredient. in my life. i can either judge myself or my. ingredients. which if i do that i'm always at the. mercy of the next thing that happens in. my life. something cataclysmic could happen in my. life and and i lose everything and then. what i'm going to judge myself and my. life on my ingredients. it to me it's always.

how great of a chef. are you. ingredients are luck of the draw. being a chef. is something we can continue to get. better at our entire lives and it's. actually the. antidote. to whatever happens if you're a great. chef. you can cook something out of whatever. you have. it's such a such a powerful analogy and. it really really did like yeah i. sort of do what you probably do when you. hear an analogy you kind of test it from. multiple scenarios and it really stands.

up and i was thinking then again about. when we look into that basket of the. ingredients we're handed if we if we. believe that the ingredients we were. handed are inadequate or inferior to the. chef stood next to us we're probably. also going to prepare the meal with a. certain level of pessimism that's going. to result in a worse dish anyway and the. the agony also of looking over at. someone else's basket of ingredients and. going [ __ ] oh they've got the ribeye. and look at me and that you know because. we both know the negative power of. comparison and how it can drive down. performance belief confidence and all. those things but it's a beautiful. beautiful analogy and sometimes.

imagine if you took pride in being able. to still make even if you knew like this. ingredient is. this one sucks. like there's no getting around it. these ingredients i have right now suck. but you took pride in. look what i can make out of out of this. i get you made something amazing with. your truffle salt and your you know your. caviar and your uni like i get you did. something amazing with that no [ __ ].

look what i just did with kelp jerky. yeah it's a it's a real powerful um. analogy for privilege as well isn't it. because you know 100 because you then. you realize i'm in a different game. altogether. this is why comparison is so insidious. because. what am i gonna do compare myself.

to someone who got a completely. different basket of ingredients and say. and by the way the basket of ingredients. isn't just what you got in life in terms. of circumstances or parents or whatever. education. your basket of ingredients is also. what you got here. you have a sharp mind. thank you. now. you've no doubt honed that mind you've. respected it you've honored it by.

reading and by educating yourself into. all of these things. but you also started with a sharp mind. yeah probably i'm really it's funny. because i'm really bad at math english. and everything i'm good at the thing i. honed but you're right i definitely had. a predisposition like your speed. of like you hear something and you i've. watched you in in interviews and when. you talk your speed of how you. assimilate. information. and draw patterns you're good at pattern. recognition which is why from a. philosophical standpoint. there's a strength there right because.

you're good at pattern recognition. these things. you just won the lottery on that one. like with your brain. you just happen to win the lottery on. that one. right that's this is going to be my. confidence button. gonna get this. those ingredients extend to everything. they extend to everything you you can. have grown up in the most dire.

circumstances. but have a sharpness of mind that other. people can't even relate to. and. for that reason you've if you know how. to double down on that thing. anything can happen. i love the idea. and i think that everyone could. benefit from a kind of acceptance of. just. i'm starting from where i am forget. starting from when you were a baby and.

you know all of the circumstances you. were born into and so on i'm talking now. forget what's happened forget everything. you've done i had a great brain but then. for 10 years i did a bunch of drugs and. then i hurt myself and then blah blah. blah whatever doesn't matter i think. about it like this imagine that you woke. up into your life right now and your. only job. was to make the most of that life. so forget the years that stephen has. already had your 29 right now so forget. the 29 years that have already happened. you this brand new soul is waking up.

this morning into stephen's body at 29. with whatever his opportunities are and. whatever his problems are. it would be. awesome you'd be so happy for the. opportunity i'd be honestly. [Music]. terrified do you know why. because. i'd lose the lessons as well. and then i think i literally was. thinking of this soul coming down. getting my credit card and going and. buying a lamborghini.

he was like he will go back to the club. you start with a 60 year old level of. wisdom but i guess you keep the wisdom. it's so funny i started i was having. this conversation with with uh my fiance. the other day and we were like. we would not go back to our 20s for any. amount of money in the world there is. nothing. i would not take i would not want those. extra years back. if it meant that i didn't have the. lessons that i have today that have. brought me more peace.

than i had done. mo gowda sat here and he said when he. was the head of google x. he said that when they did the eraser. test which was asking people if you. could erase the most traumatic. experience of your life these are really. horrific things. but in erasing it you'd erase the. lessons that came with it 99 of people. said no. and it's the same thing it's like i. wouldn't even go back to being younger. if it meant that i'd lose the last 10. years of lessons as you said yeah. because. you you erase that trauma and and you. want to because my god who would want to.

go through that but you're playing. roulette with your wisdom yeah who wants. to take that gamble and some trauma. not all of it got to be clear there some. trauma. is a consequence of a lesson we had to. learn and so if you're so. life will probably have to teach you. that lesson again in my my case whether. it's heartbreak or whatever it is or. failure there was a lesson i had to. learn about the nature of the world and. people and if you remove it then i'm. gonna have to learn it again that means. more pain. and that.

that trauma that you went through even. if it wasn't a result of something that. you needed to learn. may have been the catalyst for you to. learn something that. is going to prove essential for. something you've yet to experience amen. there are things for me that. have prepared me for the rest of my life. in some way. that. i. i i had an issue with my um.

i have an issue with my head and my ear. that bothered me. to say it bothered me is as. is ridiculous it. it created. the darkest moments of my entire life. tinnitus isn't it well i have tinnitus. right it's but it's not tinnitus alone. it's um. it's a it's a kind of a pain and a. throbbing that. that rides up through my ear and my head.

it's been very traumatic because there. were times when i was there were times. when. i couldn't. i couldn't. imagine i didn't know what i was gonna. do. it robbed me of all of the joy in life. i i couldn't. i couldn't experience any joy i was so. it was so centralizing this pain this. chronic pain. and i would go through cycles of every.

time there was some new treatment that i. thought could help. i would get some hope and that hope. would give me a momentary kind of. for a couple of weeks or a month before. the treatment i would feel uplifted even. though i would still be in pain i would. feel like. there's this thing that's going to work. and i'd talk about it to friends and. family i know i'm they'd be like how's. your head and i'd be like oh it's bad. but but i'm going to go and do this. thing and i did. so many different things and every time. when it didn't work.

i would i would plummet even deeper. and. and it got so dark that i didn't know. i thought oh i'm not signing up for this. i can't do this i can't i i cannot do. this for another 50 years. in my head it was the closest i'd ever. been to suicidal. without. truly going there in a practical sense. it was a kind of conceptual thought. where i thought. i'm i can't i can't sign up for this for.

the rest of my life. and. because i had. friends that i love family i love more. than anything in this world. staff accompany all of these. things i had a big life. there was never a real option it was. never like a real thing that i'd. considered. but i remember the thought that that. triggered. was. i am just gonna.

live for the people that i care about. now i'm just gonna live for other people. whether it's my audience when i make a. video or whether it's by family or. whether it's my team who rely on this. company for their living. i'm going to live for other people. because. i i don't experience joy anymore. this just. this robs me of everything in my life. i'm always thinking about it 24 hours a. day there would be 15 seconds when i'd. first wake up in the morning where i'd.

forget. that i wasn't that i was in pain for. just a brief moment. and then it would rush back in and i'd. remember. for me it was the first brush in my life. with anything it was my first brush with. something that. my. ingenuity my determination my ambition. my. intelligence my problem solving could. not. i'd always found whatever was going on. in my life i could fix it. i couldn't fix it and in that sense it.

sort of became my first brush with. mortality because i went. i i just have to. i have to somehow learn. how to make peace. here and. in doing that. and and there's a whole conversation to. be had on how i did that but in doing. that. i've now. learned. to deal with something that i know in.

one form or another is going to come up. again and again in my life. it may not be in the same context. it might be through. the death of somebody i care about. it might be through some other. traumatic circumstances i can't even. picture right now that are going to. happen to me. but i know that in the process of. handling that trauma. i have become more robust. in my ability to deal with.

all manner of chronic conditions in life. that there isn't an easy answer to. if i removed it what would i remove from. matthew hussey. i mean. so. so much i it would remove. an extraordinary amount of empathy. look chronic conditions can come in the. form of physical pain but they can also. come in the form of emotional.

pain and and there are people that. when they talk about being depressed or. when they talk about. struggling with anxiety. there's a chronicity to that. that they are dealing with that. is incredibly hard to understand if. you've always been able to make things. go away. there. there is something about a thing you. can't make go away. that. brings you to your knees.

and truly truly humbles you. and. and so it wouldn't just take away an. enormous amount of empathy it would take. away an extraordinary amount of humility. to lose that would be to lose i think. the most powerful parts of who i am. today. do you still have the. [Music]. pain now. yeah. but i i what i learned. and this is true for many people with. chronic pain.

is that. there is an emotional component. to it. and so. the way that i relate to it is. has the ability to either make worse. that emotional component or reduce it. the the pain is always there waiting to. flare up. and some days it's a four some days it's. a nine. when it's at four. i can get on with my life when it's at a.

nine i have to almost do the opposite i. have to practice immense self-compassion. because i'm like you i'm like. i want to wake up every morning and get. after it and there's so many things i. want to do and that's like into a fault. i pack my days and i'm always trying to. and what it taught me was how to slow. down and not beat myself up for slowing. down. because there were days where i was so. miserable with it.

that i had to learn how to just be okay. with being miserable today. i'm so unhappy with this today this is. so affecting. that. i can't. do that piece of work that i really want. to do i can't get that thing done i. don't want to hang out with people i. don't want to it. and once i let go of all the. expectations of myself on that day. and said you know what then [ __ ] it. let's just be in pain today. once i did that.

that would impact the emotional. component of it. because now i wasn't i wasn't. upset about being in pain. and i wasn't. stressing about being in pain and i. wasn't beating myself up for being in. pain because i felt like. i'm i'm it would even sometimes go to. the core of me being a man. i'd be like i'm weak. i'm deficient somehow i'm not. this you know i don't feel able.

and. that that made me feel like an elderly. person in a 30-somethings body. i was like what's wrong this is so they. don't beat myself all of this by the way. is just making the pain flare up. so when i flare up emote when emotions. flare up for me it goes straight there. for me. and. what i learned is oh that's interesting. because. the game now is. can i control stress.

or anxiety or self-judgment. or any of the shame any of these things. can i control these. and get a handle on them and reduce them. because for me. there's a very literal consequence. to them going up. and there's a real benefit there's real. treasure to be had in. being able to get a handle on those. things so that again was a gift. very few people will be able to relate. to the chronic pain um experience that.

you've had but people will be able to. relate to how their. out of control emotions have an impact. on their broader immune system so when. we get stressed we get ill like for me. in my life when i was running my my. company i would get ill. so rarely that when i did i would know. the email or the situation or the cash. flow issue that had caused it in the. preceding 48 hours i'd go ah [ __ ] yeah. you know and then i'd get a cold right. so it happened like twice a year and it. would always be typically always be when. we had a cash flow problem.

um. is there anything you've implemented in. your life to get to get control of your. emotional sort of stress response that. life. you know will um cause because of. whatever's because life happens. whether it's meditation or something. else just to bring yourself back down to. a place of peace. one of the things that's important to me. is to recognize that. the actually what i need to be happy is. not. it's not actually that.

impressive. if i get to. i have um. a certain i call them my criteria. my criteria are the things that. need to happen every day for me to. feel like. i'm living. a good life. and therefore my head hits the pillow. and i feel like. today mattered. today was a good day. and i've distilled that down to.

a few key words create. move. learn. connect. appreciate. and contribute. interesting and i really thought about. those as like my my personal formula for. happiness. the reason that those words sound quite. vague is because i actually have. many many different ways of achieving. any of them.

right now i'm writing a book. it just so happens that. every day i write is contributing to the. goal of producing a book but. even if it wasn't. it still ticks my create box every day. when i sit and write for. 45 minutes or an hour. i tick that create box in my criteria. now it doesn't matter whether i'm. writing a book or making a video or. doing something else that's creative i. just have to take that box. i don't by the way have to tick it for.

six hours a day. there's diminishing returns. if i do it for one or two hours a day i. take that box. movement or move. i typically i do jiu-jitsu or i do uh. boxing or i'm in the gym. but i could even if if you and i went. for a hike tomorrow i'd meet that. movement box with that. multiple ways of achieving our criteria. but it matters to me immensely.

it's everything that i do meet them each. day. and an unhappy life for me is one where. i don't where too many days in a row. i didn't. hit those criteria. it has nothing to do with. how big my book deal is. or how many people watched a video today. or. you know it all those external things. that are stressing me out. because in that moment when i'm stressed.

i've convinced myself that that's what. really matters. what helps me is stepping out of that. game altogether and stripping my life. back down. to the absolute basics. if today. i. call my mom or my brother and have a. a nice conversation to connect. if i. go spend an hour doing brazilian jiu. jitsu. if i. uh. write 500 words.

if i learn something new from a book. if i help someone that's my contribute. if i help someone. i've done what i need to do. to live a good life. all the rest and none of those things. are dependent on how well everything is. is going in my life. and that that to me is really liberating. because it means all the stress that i'm. creating is is self-imposed.

one of those boxes was connect. and you have. connected. with someone. who's actually sat in the room i am. you know you historically not posted a. lot on social media about your. relationship situations you've been as. you said in your own words on that. wonderful proposal announcement post you. did you'd been quite a private person. one of the lines in that that um post. you did when you announced that you and. audrey had become engaged was. and finally thank you for teaching me.

how to love in a way that i was too. scared to before. i found that quite intriguing. i. i think like a lot of men. i struggled with. genuine vulnerability. we all have our fake version of. vulnerability. the you know. it's the version of going into for a job. interview and saying my what's your.

biggest weakness i i work too hard. everyone's got their pr version of. vulnerability. it's vulnerability if on some level it. just makes me feel like i'm expressing a. part of myself that you might not like. or you. you know i can't control your reaction. to this and. i had been in relationships in the past. where i had revealed an insecurity. like. i was jealous of somebody you know i. felt threatened by somebody else.

and. it was fed back to me that that was. unattractive. and in my mind. that. that kind of stuck. i think there is a especially in a lot. of men there is a kind of. there's a kind of double thing going on. in their head where they go yeah yeah i. know that's really important but i'm not. saying that. because if i say that she's not going to. think i'm cool anymore.

i've spent a lot of time curating this. sexy alpha core image. that has attracted this person you. really think i'm going to jeopardize. that by showing an actual weakness. something that and i'm again i'm not. talking about the weakness of i cry in. movies that's not vulnerability that you. know that's going to be cute. you know that she's gonna see that and. go oh my god he's sensitive too.

that's not vulnerability. real vulnerability is. this is something that. i never really wanted anyone to see. and. and i'm taking a risk. that when you see this. you're gonna still think that i'm what. you want. have you got something in mind when you. say that when you had a conversation. with audrey and you think now this is. one of the things where i wouldn't. normally have had the.

safety i think that for me. times when i was anxious i would. normally bottle those up. and keep them to myself. i wouldn't express what i was anxious. about or what was doing that to me. times if we were arguing. where i wouldn't. really be honest about. why i was upset um. i'd give the kind of. strong version of why i was upset. the pr version yeah yeah but i wouldn't.

give the real reason i was upset that. went to the core of me not feeling. enough. of me not feeling good enough of me. feeling scared of me. feeling like something was being. triggered that i didn't know how to. handle. sometimes even when i was in pain and. there would be other situations from my. past where i would kind of not want to. reveal how much pain i was in with my. head. because i was worried that someone might. determine this is not i can't.

i don't want to deal with this so i kind. of keep it to myself. for a lot of guys their experience of. growing up wasn't one where being. vulnerable would have been rewarded. and then you add on to that the. additional layer of. as a guy we've been culturally led to. believe that being the. caricatured alpha male. that's what women want. and some of our experiences have.

confirmed that. we lost out to the guy in high school. who was much meaner than us. and who we knew was not a very nice. person. but he had his pick. and that that's quite scarring for a guy. because you go what does that mean yeah. what do what do i so i have to be more. like that. and so we close parts of ourselves down. and and then it's and then you know. god forbid you come across or have a.

relationship with someone who confirms. that yeah. now you really feel like i need to be. that guy. and and it can take a lot of. rewiring. and deconditioning to get to a place. where you go. oh the if i keep if i keep being this. way i'm actually going to attract i'm. just going to continue to attract people. who do value the wrong things who are. looking for an instagram. man.

can you do that from the jump though i. was just thinking about some of my. friends in my head and i was thinking. they're going to hear that and i know. some of my friends who are actually. probably scared. of especially at the start in the dating. phase of. laying it out so they come they put the. makeup on they get the hair done they go. get the tan whatever and their objective. is i just need to keep this [ __ ]. person and i believe the way to keep. them is just you know keep trying to be. that sexy perfect at what point do you. go from sexy perfect to. listen i'm you know pretty [ __ ] up in.

a number of ways. i think that we have to. there's a way to. firstly vulnerability in the beginning. of dating. isn't. it. well. vulnerability is is can be really. attractive. but not. in a way where you've exposed all of. your wounds. and the things you don't like about. yourself instantly and offloaded i guess. exactly there's a. you know it's fine to talk about. something that you're.

working on or. you know even in a playful tone kind of. nod to something that you're not very. good at. but that's not the same i remember being. on a tv show. in australia. where. i. there was this one woman she was an. amazing woman but every time she went on. a date. it would just be a kind of. all on the surface laughing and just on. the surface on the surface on the. surface on the surface and i was like.

part of the problem is these guys that. go on dates with you by the end of the. day. they don't feel connected to you in any. way and the reason they don't feel. connected to you is because there's no. real. vulnerability at that stage. so i said the next day i want you to. actually connect and be a little. vulnerable. now what she did with that advice is. when on the next first date. and told. the story of her dad getting in a car. accident. that changed her whole life in a really.

awful way at the time. and. i was i had to say at the time. when i said vulnerability i didn't mean. go and tell the story of the worst thing. that's happened to you in your life. vulnerability. can be. paying someone a compliment. because in a way when you pay someone a. compliment you're handing them a little. power right not in a bad way but you're. saying like there's something great. about you and i'm acknowledging it and. now you know that i think that you're.

great in some way. or it can be laughing at somebody else's. is joke or it can be. talking about something that you really. enjoy doing that's a little bit nerdy. that you you know. i might not put on social media all the. time but it is something i actually do. in my spare time that's kind of geeky. but i love it. sometimes or even if it's not geeky if. it's just something you're super. passionate about and you talk about. something with passion that's a. vulnerable act to to express that you're. passionate about something.

is vulnerable because they may not think. that thing is cool or or even just to be. passionate is to be vulnerable. you might think that my passion is too. much or you might think it's silly or. so you could be vulnerable about the. right things early on and the more. someone gets to know you. the more you can kind of. let them in on some of the things that. you struggle with vulnerability isn't. necessarily revealing all of our. insecurities all at once.

and one important reason for that. is because when we tell an insecurity. i tell you something i don't like about. my face. i'm telling you what to think about my. face. i'm not letting you have your own. opinion of my face. you can take the view that there's some. part of your body or there's something. you're. not a fan of in yourself you can take. that opinion. but you don't get to be the opinion for.

everybody else. the reason we're saying it is because. we're almost trying to beat them to it. you know let me just tell you that i. don't like this thing about myself. because then i'll feel better that's out. in the open but i'm presupposing what. you're going to think. about it that's an awful quality people. have that self-disparaging thing it's. really insidious in many ways and that. isn't vulnerability. that's a different thing from. vulnerability vulnerability can be. acknowledging that there's something.

that. you don't like about yourself all the. time that can be an act of vulnerability. but you have to suspect yourself if your. instinct with someone you don't know. that well is to immediately go to that. place. i've been in relationships where i felt. like my partner was trying to fix me. and it really is a shitty feeling. for men i think it really emasculates us. as well right we want to be. i guess perfect we want to just make our. woman happy i've been in relationships. where i felt like she was trying to fix.

me. and it [ __ ] sucked. that's a rough situation to be in it's. really i had a conversation with her. about it where i was like. by the way when you when you do that. thing where you try and correct correct. me constantly what you're actually also. doing as a consequence is saying that. i'm not good enough. i remember having that conversation with. her fortunately she was someone that. could really listen but women i think. women and men. i only can speak from the perspective of. women because i've only ever been on the. receiving end of it from women but um. what do women need to know about that of.

this because a lot of them do it they. they meet someone he might be they're. doing this he might be down the pub too. much he might be have this bad habit. this thing. what do they need to know about this. desire they have sometimes to try and. fix us. does it work where does it lead well i. think. people have to suspect themselves in the. beginning if they're choosing people. that they're not aligned with in the. first place. that i think is a the fixing thing is. often a big symptom of the fact that.

instead of choosing a partner you chose. a project of some kind. right. and now i'm unhappy because i needed. these things from the beginning but this. person isn't doing them but i knew that. in the beginning it's not like i. suddenly found out that he enjoys going. to the pub. our first four dates were in a pub. you know. the guy likes a drink i i knew that in. the beginning and does that mean there's.

a certain level of acceptance that's. required when you meet someone. well i think that we have to. we have to. um. to a certain. extent say am am i at peace with. who this person is today. because if i'm not. why would i get into a relationship with. them. i'm literally getting into a. relationship on a wager. that they're going to become what i want. what are the chances of that.

it goes back to the point we were saying. about this inauthentic initial. connection when you you kind of you're. not really sure who you are. and you might also have a presumption. that the bits you don't like about them. you're not going to mention it just yet. or you know you're going to kind of. maybe not 12 months in you're going to. start mentioning that that's really a. big problem to you but you connected and. authentically from the start so. yeah i just i just i'm totally thinking. about my own experience of that and the. other part of it was hugely my fault in. the sense that i would compromise.

so say that i loved watching the. football and she didn't want me to watch. the football or whatever. sure if i can turn the football off for. the first couple of months just to keep. happy families and then this resentment. starts building where you go i [ __ ]. miss the football and you're the reason. i can't watch it you know what i mean. again that's like i was inauthentic i. wasn't honest and we all in some way are. prone to that we we are trying to. we're trying to oil the joints of of. early dating so that everything moves in. this nice smooth romantic.

direction and. and we kind of. if we're not careful we do end up. playing a part that we think will just. create the most. energy. the most good energy the most romantic. energy. i i think that what i've learned. as a personal lesson is. that i would. judge things very quickly in people. without trying to understand.

what was behind them. like why. why is this thing important to you. why do you like doing this what is it. about this thing what because it's very. easy when someone's different. to how we are. it's very easy to decide what that means. yeah amen to decide what the intention. must be behind that yeah and then to. judge someone on that. and. one of the things i think would help. people because it's very easy to say.

well date people who you already. like the way they are and don't date. people or don't go any further with. people that do things you don't like. that's a. oversimplification that. what i would say to people is there's. always going to be differences between. you and the person you date there's. always going to be things that. you i'm not talking about things that. you genuinely ethically. abhor. that's a problem right but if someone is.

doing things that are different. than what you do or what you enjoy. take a moment to be curious about that. thing. what is it for them. about that thing that they really like. what does it represent to them. what's driving them there why are they. that way. i have found that to be an immensely. connecting experience because you may do. something different to me but why you.

like that thing. might actually. resonate with me. in terms of why i like this thing. i might find that we're actually at the. core. quite similar even though the way. those values or those desires or those. needs. are represented on the surface is. different. and i think people give up a lot of. great people because of their immediate. judgment of the differences.

because they haven't actually sought to. understand the the connections that are. under the surface. i had a few words to say about one of my. sponsors on this podcast my girlfriend. came upstairs yesterday when i was. having a shower and she said to me that. she tried the heel protein shake which. lives on my fridge over there and she. said it's amazing low calories you get. your 20 odd grams of protein you get. your 26 vitamins and minerals and it's. nutritionally complete in the protein. space there's lots of things but it's. hard to find something that is nice. especially when consumed just with water. and that is nutritionally complete and.

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that i actually like the salted caramel. is my favorite i've got the banana one. here which is the one my girlfriend. likes but for me salted caramel is. the one. what's your longest relationship. ever. proper one. two years two and a half years. mine's roughly the same yeah. you don't know what it's like to go 50. years in a relationship right are you. not scared. on any level. do you not have a fear.

of boredom. i have humility about. long-term relationships you've just got. a fiance as well that's a as you wrote. on that caption a forever commitment. right. i have massive humility about. commitments like that in the sense that. like i said to you earlier in this. conversation i don't pretend to know. about things i don't know. but do you personally have a fear of. boredom in your relationship because i i. don't she's going to listen to this i i.

wonder i think well i've never i've only. ever done two or three years so what how. do you get 30 years in and still have. the spice and. you know i love her you know. well i think that firstly it's. you you have to look at. i almost take it out of the context of. relationships and say. there's lots of areas of life where. you could say. how do you. not. drink or not get high.

and not eventually find life boring. where you need to do that. but then you also know if you're. drinking or getting high there's a cost. to that right it's a there's an actual. cost it it. makes you feel like crap afterwards. there's a hangover. and and so there's a price to pay for. that. i don't think of it just in terms of. will i get bored i i i'm always thinking. in terms of okay but what's. the other option.

and has the other option ever worked for. me. now the answer to has the other option. ever worked for me is no. i got to a point in my life where i felt. like i have empirically proven. that. this thing doesn't work. casual relationships. don't make me. they they don't make me happy. there's a you know. it literally is just a feeling followed.

by hangover. and that was became reliable in my life. where i just went oh this doesn't work. for me to continue down that path would. be. literally that definition of insanity. i'm well i'm gonna be i suddenly am. gonna. find the right set of casual flings. that's gonna make me happy. it just it's nonsense. i got to a point in my life where. i. i saw two things happened.

i met someone. who. had everything that i could ever want in. someone that you would build with. not to mention the obvious stuff the. chemistry the you know the fun we have. together and all of those things we're. all there. i'm not one of those people who you know. when people talk about like a. relationship as if. chemistry's overrated you just need. someone who's a great teammate or. whatever i i don't think chemistry is.

overrated i think an absence of. chemistry. can. be dire. and will hurt you. but those things were there. but what was also there is i thought. this is someone. that i can really build with. and i'm in a place in my life where i. want to build. because there's so much more that can. come from. building something here there's so much. more that can come from. the beauty of what gets built than just.

like for me dating was like resetting. every time. it was like go build a. lay a couple of bricks down and then. move on again and reset reset reset it's. like renting. it yeah it was like there's nothing yeah. every time you leave i'm. i'm back to to the same place now. there's nothing wrong i have no judgment. on any of that if someone's enjoying. being single if someone wants to do that. if it makes them happy. i have no judgment anywhere i'm not.

i don't want to be an evangelist for a. long-term relationship. i can only speak to what feels good to. me in my life and what feels like. i want to be careful not just what feels. good. but. what i actually believe is a. is a path to a more meaningful. life. to a happier life and i truly believe. that is the path that myself and audrey. are on is. she could be single and she could like.

she's a beautiful person everyone loves. being around her everyone loves her. company. she could be out there having a ton of. fun she could be out there having all of. this excitement she could. but. she also is someone who values she is. very very big on. valuing the things that lead to. long-term happiness. not. short-term pleasure. and. i always want to be in a relationship. that is you know has pleasure in it.

i don't you know i don't want to ever. settle for a relationship where you say. well i'll sacrifice that because. i have all of this other. stuff but. you know i i do believe that it's it. takes i think that takes effort i don't. i'm suspicious of anyone who says when. it's right it's easy. i'm suspicious of that because to me. anything anything long-term any. commitment long-term. requires true effort my last question. then so on that in that example of you.

and audrey. i'm trying to get so i'll tell you the. the basis behind my question i'm trying. to understand if we have to be in the. right place and this goes back to my. point about. sort of personal responsibility if we. have to be right when we meet this. person or it's just a case because. there'll be a lot of people listening to. this going okay i've just not met the. right one i've not met my audrey so i'm. going to keep waiting but what i see a. lot is um i met my girlfriend actually. three years ago we dated for a year then. broke up i was totally not the right. person well for all the reasons i said.

immature not willing to communicate if. she said something and it was an issue i. thought this isn't perfect so it's not. worth it um i had all of those faults in. me we took a year out i did a lot of. work came back and i genuinely will. marry this person we genuinely have gone. through those things so i think. timing is an issue but largely because. sometimes like we're we're we haven't. done the work we've gone through life. bla i've just i'm too picky i've not. found the right one all of this [ __ ]. what would you say. what would you say to that about the.

self work we need to do so that when you. do meet your audrey we're also ready to. receive them well i. i think we have to dispense with this. idea that the one exists. i think that's really really important i. don't think the one exists any more than. the one true career exists. uh i think that we. someone becomes the one by what we build. with them now they have to start with. the right raw materials as do we you. can't just.

not anyone can be the person we do that. with but. the person who becomes the one. is the person that. i mean it sounds so funny but. is the person that becomes the one. you know what i mean. if it if you go the distance with. someone they were the one. if you don't go the distance with. someone. then. they weren't the one they weren't. the this idea that there's one person. for you.

in the world that you're supposed to. meet. is. silly to me. because it. it gets into all these ideas of love at. first sight and you know i just. we came to each other ready made to be. each other's person i think that's an. insult to the amount of work that a. long-term relationship actually. takes. and. and i think that we get so terrified of. making the wrong decisions in life. that. we avoid the decisions altogether and.

that's a form of commitment phobia is. avoiding the decision. because you're so terrified that you're. going to make the wrong choice in a. decision that feels so high stakes. i. i never um. i realized. i never. i always used to kind of when i was. younger. friends of mine that would get tattoos. i'd be like you're insane.

you're crazy why would you. put something on your. arm that you can never take off again. that. every fiber of me. said that's a terrible idea. i had never. enjoyed anything for my whole life. i'd never i can't point to a piece of. clothing i've always liked. so why would i think why would i have. faith that i'm gonna tattoo something on. my arm and i'm still gonna like it 20.

years from now. that freaked me out. and why i came to realize not with. everyone who gets tattoos there are. plenty of foolish tattoos out there. but what i did realize is that. actually a lot of the people that i knew. who got tattoos just had a different. relationship. with. the idea of permanence i i knew someone. with a lot of tattoos and she said. you know this just the meaning changes. over time she was a client of mine who.

said i. over time. they come to mean different things and. they kind of evolve with me. and so in a way. though to you it may look like the same. tattoo to me it's. it's always evolving in its meaning and. and what it represents that's actually. what someone said to me because i was. telling them i was going to ask one of. my team in the room that i was gonna ask. ask you this question and he's been in a. marriage for some time he has kids and. he said well you have different. relationships with them over time and. that adage of you fall in love with them. over and over again in different ways.

right. i couldn't agree more. and. i can't speak as somebody who has done. it already. i can only. speak as someone who i realize that my. relationship with the idea of permanence. has. not. been a very productive one has it been. for me it was definitely an insecure one.

and it's get a fearful one well i think. that you know there's a oliver burkman. who i you may have met i think you maybe. interviewed oliver burkman. his book for anyone who's struggling. with. with being ready for commitment is a. really powerful book you could read that. book as a dating book. uh because he he talks about the. the issue of deciding. deciding to do something and then.

the thing that we decide on we resolve. to make that. as good as we can make it because by. definition you can't experience all of. life. you can't experience every man in the. world you can't experience every woman. in the world you can't like it. you can't. so. when we're trying to what he describes. it as is almost a fear of our own. mortality or a lack of acceptance of our. own mortality he talks about it in a. time management sense that the fact that. we're trying to cram so many things into.

our day is really a representation of. our lack of acknowledgement that we're. going to die. right i keep telling myself i'm going to. do all of these things that i'll never. get to but because i can't come to terms. with the fact that i'm going to die and. i'm not going to get to do even a. quarter of these things i'm planning to. do because if you really understand how. short life is you know you're not going. to go to half of the countries you want. to go to so you better start picking the. ones you really want to go to however. that make that seems to make the stakes. of every decision really high right. this is berkman's point that it makes.

the stakes of every decision really high. and that would make us even more. decisive even more indecisive my god if. you're already telling me that i have to. carefully select the books i'm going to. read because i'm only going to get to. read one percent of of the books that i. ever even want to read let alone the. number of books out there. then. how would i ever choose what book to. read next when i know i'm only going to. read 60 more. in my whole life or a hundred more in my. whole life. what he says which is so compelling is.

that. there's there's no. one right book there's no one right. country there's no one right person. there's the person that and there's the. person we in we decide we resolve to. make the best relationship with. there's the country we decide to make. the most of living in. there's the job that we decide to make. the most of. and. the way i think about it is. not people.

settling is a very. um. emotive loaded word. i used to write in people's books when i. signed when people would bring me on. tour a copy of get the guy. i used to write as standard in the front. of their book never settle. and. i now. look at that and i'm like. i don't think that was strong advice. i don't think that was strong advice.

because. what i did was demonize. the word settling which self-development. tends to do. it's all about optimization. never settle. and i was coming from that kind of. maximizing optimizing self-development. place. but there's a difference between. settling for. and settling on. settling four. says that you had a standard. that. you accepted less than.

settling on. says. i'm gonna. put my focus and my energy on. something. and it's gonna be extraordinary because. i'm gonna make it extraordinary. and it sounds voluntary doesn't it. whereas a form is kind of like you were. given that and four is like i gave up. yeah yeah yeah settling on is i made a. conscious decision i settled on. living in london i didn't settle for.

living in london i decided i this is a. great city yes there are many other. great cities but this is a great city. and i am gonna make living in london. incredible for myself i'm settling on. living in london and i for years i. noticed in my language. even though i've been living in la ill. in la for 10 years anytime someone would. ask me so is la home i'd go i don't know. i might leave i'm right next year i. might not be here i'm not sure we'll see.

i've been doing my job for 15 years i. clearly in a practical sense do not have. an issue with commitment. i've been doing what i do for a very. long time most people more longer than. most people do any job but if you'd. asked me in general. do you see yourself doing this for your. whole life i'd say i don't know i mean. we'll see. now. that's okay to build in flexibility but. not if it's. a way of ever avoiding settling on. something because when we don't settle.

on something we actually rid ourselves. the opportunity of making it the best. it can be. and and. iron when we were going through a time. recently where we were talking about. should we stay in la or should we go. somewhere else you know what do we think. and we kind of thought about all. different places we might go and we did. this whole. exercise this mental exercise of. thinking about all of these places we. could live and would live and so on. we ended up.

settling on la. and we came right back to where we. started but but we both said. actually no we want to be here and what. was really funny is the moment we. decided. okay no we're going to be here. we started doing all of these little. things in the house and we went out and. bought a couple more plants. and we started thinking about what we. wanted to put on this wall that doesn't. have anything on it right now and we in. other words the moment we decided to. settle on. we started investing differently and.

consciously. in the house that we were actually in. and. that's actually where all the enjoyment. comes from is once you start investing. where you are. you start making the best of where you. are and you lose this idea. that there is some perfect state of. anything. outside of where you are perfectly comes. back to your point about the ingredients. as well and making the most of where you. have settling on your ingredients. matthew thank you honestly i could sit. here for 10 hours.

um this was so much fun thank you for. having me and thank you for such. thank you thank you for such thoughtful. questions like you. your vulnerability comes across and. that's not. you know when you've when you've. achieved a lot. it it's easy for your identity to. calcify and and yours hasn't and you. stay vulnerable and. it's reflected in the kind of. conversation you're open to having so i. i really appreciate it well yeah i sit. here every very often and i get to hear.

from people like you about the. importance of a vulnerability being. honest with myself and controlling and. containing ego so again this has been a. real refresher about what's important in. life and i i really really you know. you've really reinforced the central id. i mean so many central ideas but the one. that i think about in the context of. i mean the ingredients one is definitely. the one that will stay with me the most. but. as it relates to the relationship part. that important the importance of men and. i plead with men because i know they're. listening. trying vulnerability out in their. relationships it was the thing that.

changed my relationship the thing that. changed my life in that regard it's the. thing it's the reason why people listen. to this the reason why this podcast has. done well is because i took the bet on. recording myself at 3am saying i was. really struggling with some [ __ ] and. this and masturbation and my family and. all these things that you're not allowed. to talk about make you feel. uncomfortable vulnerability has been the. thing that happens before all the good. things in my life and you're a real um a. testament to vulnerability and also the. the importance of it we have a closing. tradition on this podcast where the.

previous guest writes a question for the. next guest so our previous guest wrote a. question for you that's cool. yes. it is because it's a nice through thread. so they're all connected which we love. um. okay so i i look at the question when i. open the book and i looked at it i. opened the book a second ago. the question is. what is your dark side. i i think my dark side is.

the part of me that thinks. everyone. has an agenda. that they can't be trusted. and that. if they're being. even if they're being nice there must be. some angle. somewhere. and therefore i should be on my guard. and suspicious at all.

times. that i think is my dark side and i think. that that. i think that has. been one of the things in recent years. that i've really had that's been part of. my vulnerability. is. opening myself up to. acts of kindness and connection that. aren't driven by. any agenda. and making peace with the times where. they are but i was.

i i. brought forward my best. and most authentic self anyway do you. know where that came from. [Music]. i don't know. i don't know i i. i don't even know when it started. i i can't remember if i ever felt like. that when i was a kid. but certainly as an adult. that's been something that i've.

i think has. it's been a part of my life that. i've really had to let go of and one of. the things that allowed me to. start to let go of it was. real. friendships. real friendships where. i noticed that there were people around. me that just. were really kind. or if i needed. help. if i needed advice.

and i think probably during when during. that period of time where i was. desperate with with my chronic pain. there were people that. gave me their time and their energy. even if they didn't know how to help. there were people that had no reason to. give me. time and energy it would have been. perfectly acceptable for them to not. who decided to give me. their time even people who had no time. and that.

a kind of that limiting belief. started to dissolve in the face of that. and it made me want to. you know it really made me want to. represent that in the world and not even. if people can take advantage. not going into life waiting for that. waiting to. to like spot that but instead just going. some people will take advantage and. other people won't but. i want to be someone who trusts people.

thank you. thanks steve really wonderful. conversation and for all the reasons. i've described you're a really. necessary important voice in the world. and if we need more men that are willing. to be vulnerable and open because i. think it's a catalyst for a very. important systemic change in us as men. um. receiving and achieving what we want and. when i reflect on the statistics around. men their mental health and the. consequences of their ill mental health. a lot of it is rooted in an absence of. expression so i love having these.

conversations thank you so much matthew. thank you sir. quick one as you might know crafted are. one of the sponsors of this podcast and. crafted are a jewellery brand and they. make really meaningful pieces of jewelry. i think i've worn this piece for almost. a year. it hasn't broken hasn't changed color. because it's really really good quality. and it costs roughly. 50 quid i'm not the type of person that. has rolexes or jewelry that cost tens of. thousands of pounds i want pieces that. are reliable that look beautiful and.

that holds meaning and significance for. me and that's exactly why i've worn. crafted for so long and when we had the. conversation about them sponsoring this. podcast i was so unbelievably keen for. them to do so check it out if you're a. guy crafted london.com and yeah if you. get any pieces of crafted tag man let me. know what you think. [Music]. oh. [Music].

[Music]. you.