Macklemore: How You Can Overcome Your Darkest Days & Hardest Battles!

world's not for me. because I don't know what I'm doing here. anymore I feel nothing. I think that that's the hardest part I. haven't really spoke about this. it's um. yeah I'll just say it I mean. the man behind her favorite hits music. Superstar Grammy Award winner we're just. getting started you have no idea what is. the desire to be on stage come from. Michael Jackson I wanted to make music. art with Melody it was where I felt an.

escape from my head. 14 year old looking 12 shots of vodka. you know on a school night by myself. running from the police and doing drugs. that never stopped. we were in our home and. home and I'm there I'm high her period. was laid went got other pregnancy test. and I'm just like. praying. let this be a negative pregnancy test. I'm not ready to give up the drugs.

and then I heard the tears I remember. walking outside and I just started. bawling because I couldn't feel any sort. of happiness and I knew what that meant. if you were to go back and be able to. have a conversation now with young Ben. at 14 years old before that first drink. what would you say. it's a great question it's going to. cause way more pain than good but at the. same time.

would you like to go for dinner with me. and my guests here on the diver CEO we. are holding dinner parties all around. the world over the coming months and our. subscribers on this YouTube channel are. invited we're inviting 20 subscribers to. every dinner so if you'd like to come. for dinner with me and my guests here on. the Diary of a CEO I have a favor to ask. you all you've got to do is hit the. Subscribe button and I hope to see you. at dinner somewhere around the world. very soon. oh.

[Music]. when I when I think about people's lives. I. think from doing this podcast this has. become more sort of clear to me I see. their lives as like a series of dots you. know like or a series of dominoes that. fell to lead them to where they are. today and if you go back to the very. start of that that series of dots to. understand the most influential moments. or things that. um inspired.

you to become the person you are today. in every sense of the word what are. those first dots those first experiences. that I need to know in order to. understand you. my first dots my first dots I think. would be. listening to the radio. outside summer time. next door neighbor's yard. and being introduced to music.

and. loving music Falling in Love That Summer. I believe I was six years old and you. know I had an older neighbor who was. maybe four or five years older than me. and he had a bunch of. um. you know my best friend was next door he. was five years older than us it was like. a collection of of kids in the. neighborhood and I remember that summer. being this magical introduction to.

art to music to listening to the radio. and falling in love with with Melody. with sounds that was my first that was. my first Dot and then my next dot. shortly after that was falling in love. with hip-hop music at the age of seven. and. those were the first two dots that. really set me on a path a trajectory and.

this desire to be on a stage. people can listen to music have that. summertime experience they can listen to. rap music but not have the desire to be. on stage where does the desire to be on. stage come from Michael Jackson. I think it was I think it was MJ I think. that. you know like everyone else that grew up. in the in the 80s there was something. about. watching Michael Jackson command a stage.

and what he did with his body what he. did with his feet the moonwalk obviously. but everything about it the Perfection. the timing the the nuanced moves that he. had the way that he commanded the crowd. there was a curiosity around what is. that. I'm not sure but I want to try and an. inner performer was born. in my household at the age of seven and.

uh everyone that came into my house was. subjected to whatever show I was putting. on that day and I just wanted to you. know get on the kitchen counter and show. people that like you know I have a show. for you guys come watch. parents home life. parents. um. yeah they were. they were super encouraging you know my. mom was my biggest cheerleader my. biggest Advocate someone that was always. in my corner that was like you can do it. you got this. and I just believed her.

even when I shouldn't have. and. um those years were very. were very crucial in my development of. gaining confidence in in who I was as a. person and as an artist. School you you got kicked out of school. dropped out of school around 14 15. yeah. no I didn't get kicked out I was close. to getting kicked out. um probably should have got kicked out I. wasn't going to school much but I went.

to a small school and up until uh High. School. and it was very. communal. um you know parents volunteered it was. this alternative creative school and. then ninth grade hit. and that is when. drugs and alcohol hit as well and I had. freedom it was like you know the school. was like 1600 kids or 2 000 kids or. something and for the first time I.

wasn't being watched I could skip class. um the teachers didn't notice if I was. there or not or they didn't call my. parents and. um there was this level of Freedom so. there was that period of of a year year. and a half where. um I went from kind of a b student to. uh damn near getting kicked out for for. failing so didn't last long I got back. on track and um you know completed high. school with I think I closed out with a.

3.8 or 4.0 my last year of high school. um and what did you want to do when you. were an adult like if I lost 14 15 year. old you know what are you going to be. when you grow up would you have told me. I wanted to rap you believed that you. could get there you know. I didn't know if I could or not but it. wasn't it 14 or 15 I don't think I would. have necessarily had the confidence like. this is going to be the path but by the.

time that I hit around 20 years old. it was like this is. this is possible 22 it was like this is. even more possible 23 but the problem. was that I kept having. um you know it was just it was always. like I could make this a reality if I. can just get sober. and I couldn't get sober so it was this. like I need to get sober I need to get. clean so I can make music that's. meaningful that's impactful because once.

I got high it was like the veil was over. my eyes I had no connection anymore to. the music and um it was kind of always. that balance but I felt in my heart if I. can get clean I can make. enough music that will resonate with. people that might be able to pay some of. these bills when people think about. I built a business with my business. partner for many many years and. throughout that process he was and he's. been on the show before he he was. addicted to alcohol and I didn't know.

what it was so we were living in the. same house together I'd go downstairs at. three at 3am in the morning and I'd find. him in the laundry room drinking from a. bottle yeah and I'd put him back in bed. and then you know 5am I hear a sound. he's managed to get a another bottle of. alcohol and his bed sheets are covered. in this red wine and I just thought you. know in my naivety this is someone that. just likes alcohol right and no one had. taught me this concept of addiction the. disease of addiction I had no idea what. it was so it wasn't until things.

escalated even further that there was. almost an intervention moment where we. literally met one one evening because. they've been an incident caused a lot of. damage and it was basically like an. ultimatum moment yeah then I went on the. Journey of understanding what addiction. was and the disease of addiction as you. describe it. when Jay spoke to you on Jay's podcast. I could see he was doing a similar thing. to what I was doing when I was. researching your story which was like. trying to understand the cause of it and. I'm not even sure if that's the right. question.

do you know what I mean like we're all. searching for a cause yeah. and and so I wanted to ask the question. to you like what is in your view. how did that relationship with drugs and. alcohol come to be. you know I think that for me it was the. first time in my life. where I felt an escape. from my head it was like what was going. on in your head I don't even know but I. just felt to reprieve I felt this like.

this Elation this moment of like all of. these thoughts in my head. are gone and I am here with this bottle. and no one's around and I get to be a. secret and I get to hide this and I feel. free I feel free from whatever it was in. that you know 14 year old. puberty hormonal teenager that was going.

on in my life it was like. quiet and um. I had the allergy from the very. beginning it was. you know. One Shot Two Shot what does four feel. like what does eight feel like and all. of a sudden I'm taking 12 shots of vodka. um you know on a school night by myself. hopping on the bus and you know running. from the police and it was a crazy first. time drinking alcohol that never stopped.

for me every time pretty much that I. drank turned into a Crazy Event like. that. um but I don't know I don't know exactly. at the time what I was what I wanted to. escape from I think that there was just. that. changing reality. there was that oh I like to be able to. to skew what's in front of me and to. silence the minds. from your from going through the process. of recovery and rehab and all those. things you've met a lot of other people. that have struggled with the disease of.

addiction has any of that process taught. you anything about your own relationship. or the causal factors of your own. relationship with. substances and alcohol. you know I think that there's through. lines absolutely and I think that for a. a lot of us that have the disease of. addiction there's trauma there's. childhood trauma there's you know if the. disease kicks in later in life maybe. that trauma came into play later but I.

think that there is a through line in. what I have seen in others. um and that's you know some sort of. thing that we're we're holding on to or. a secret or you know something that. happened to us in life that. um drugs and alcohol kind of numbs and. takes away quells that. that inner guilt that inner shame. whatever it might be I think that. there's a through line between. us addicts and in our past and then I.

think also there's people that just have. the allergy and maybe it's maybe it's. not related to trauma at all maybe we're. not predisposed or maybe we are. predisposed It's a combination I don't. know but I do see that um a lot of. people are trying to escape. it's a difficult thing especially for. the um the people around that individual. like to because you know going back to. my own example with my best friend and. business partner I didn't have the tools.

to know how to be there right you know. and I also didn't have the information. to understand what I was dealing with. like if you'd asked me when I was 25. like what was going on with my friend I. just loves to get drunk right it's part. of the culture yeah and then when you. meet what we do is 25 year olds yeah. um. if if you were to give advice on like. how those around the individual who is. struggling with the disease of addiction. can be there or what their role is. supposed to be or what would you what. would you say what advice would you have.

given me at 25 years old you know I. think that there's. there's resources that we have there's. Al-Anon where if you have someone that. it's a 12-step program for people that. have loved ones or friends or whatever. that are going through the disease of. addiction and how to show up and you. literally they're in the basements of. churches all over the world or you know. community centers or wherever they're. free and there's people that are going. through the same common struggle of how.

do we show up. in an authentic way and help. save this person's life that we love. um because we don't have the information. you know for so many of us I think that. there's this notion of just stop why. don't they just stop why are they. hurting themselves how could they do. this to me we make it about us right. like how could they do this to me how. could they lie to me how could they go. out and say that they were going to quit. and then keep going why don't they see. who they turn into just stop.

just stopping. doesn't work. there needs to be a support system there. are needs for for the attic we need. 12-step meetings we need therapy we need. you know to evaluate our mental health. we need to work the steps we need a. sponsor we need a community of people. that share our very same struggle so we. can see ourselves and experience the. therapeutic value of one addict helping. another that is our piece but until we. get there just stopping is almost.

impossible. and sometimes it takes you know hitting. those really low points of of getting. arrested or getting Court mandated to go. to you know 12-step meetings but on the. others the other side of it. here you are with your friend. and you have no idea how to show up. authentically in that moment and. actually really come from a place of. love and you're angry and you're so. angry right you're pissed you don't know. how to deal with that emotion and you.

realize that once you go to this meeting. these meetings. that just like the addict we're. powerless over drugs and alcohol you're. powerless over your friend. and there are things that you can do to. help. there's probably things that you can do. to maybe hurt but overall. they have to be in enough pain that they. want to change. and you're not going to be the Catalyst. and you can put them in I've watched it.

time and time again of people with the. best intentions that end up enabling. that end up you know fueling the fire. that end up trying to help but not. having the tools themselves and I think. that Al-Anon is the best easiest free. way to even if you want to go to a. meeting or two to get some skill sets. some language and to realize that. um at the end of it. come from your heart and lead the. expectations aside because this is their. Journey at the end of the day.

the moment that I described this moment. where we had kind of like an. intervention with my best friend and it. was really the day we met on a Sunday in. an office after the Saturday before he'd. got very very drunk and caused a lot of. problems with team members. he's talked about this like doing things. in public going on someone's table next. to the restaurant um the table next to. his at the restaurant he was at with our. team grabbing their alcohol off the. table and doing all these crazy things. and getting kicked out of the restaurant. it was a surrendering the day after and.

you used that word before yeah we met in. the office and it was the first time. I came with anger. and it was the first time. he told me how he felt yeah. and he cried in front of me. and that was and then my anger. immediately evaporates because it's the. first time I've heard that this. individual is suffering with something. right and there's a pain and that was. the day that was the the day he became. sober went to therapy went on that. journey and he's been sober for eight.

years since then but it was that. surrendering moment it was that like him. reaching out and saying like I need help. in me actually like listening yes. you see him for what he is in that. moment which is hurting which is an. immense pain. he doesn't want to be like that he feels. the guilt and shame of his actions he's. tried to start and and stop and go back. and forth and things that okay maybe. it's just hard alcohol or or dark. alcohol or maybe it's beer or maybe it's.

the combination of this drug he's tried. everything and he's hurting and he. doesn't know how to stop he doesn't have. the tools and I think that that. surrender that you talk about is one of. the most beautiful moments for an addict. or an alcoholic is like waving the White. Flag we think about surrender is is a. weakness right like you don't surrender. you keep fighting you keep going no with. this disease the greatest thing that we. can do is surrender is to snitch on. ourselves is to wave that white flag is. to let other people know that we are.

struggling on our own internally that. this is something is broken and I have. no idea how to get out of this and um. and what did that do when he was able to. be human to you you were like okay now I. can come from a place of love because. I'm pissed off about what you do last. night and I'm pissed off that you've. done X Y and Z and that we've had this. conversation or whatever the situation. is. um. and you know you ask what can you do as. a 25 year old friend. coming from a place of love and I think.

compassion and even if it's not you know. empathy isn't possible because that's. not what you're going through I think. that that compassion is. is what makes people feel you know what. they actually care about me it's not. just like I'm pissing them off but they. actually care and. you know just kind of like letting go of. our own expectations of people and. meeting them where they're at. is always. you know the best place to show up from.

when was your moment of surrender. God I've had many I think my. my biggest moment of surrender I was 25. or 26 years old 25 I think and. I had been. on oxycontin for you know I don't know a. couple weeks couple a month and it. caught up really quickly in terms of my. addiction to the point that you know.

I lost a ton of weight I'm you know I'm. scratching I just was like I was dope. sick and I had never really experienced. that before. um all the happiness any serotonin was. gone. it was. one of those moments of I remember like. walking outside and it was summertime in. Seattle which is like most beautiful. place in the world in the summer and I. remember walking outside on a tank top. and I'm like you know I just started. bawling being outside because I couldn't.

feel any sort of happiness it was gone. it was like it had evaporated and um. and I didn't really want to be here. anymore like there was that moment it. was like there was no real suicidal. um ideation or plan. but it was just this like. maybe this world's not for me. because I don't know what I'm doing here. anymore. I feel nothing I feel nothing.

um except deep deep grief and the. obsession to get more. and it was shortly after that my um. you know I went to a family function and. I'm trying to you know piece it together. and just be presentable and just get. through it and my Dad pulled me aside. and. um. you know I think my mom had asked him to. talk to me. because you know we didn't. grow up having too many heart-to-hearts. it was mostly with my mom but my mom I. think urged him to do it he pulled me.

aside and just asked me are you happy. and um. that was my surrender moment I kind of. lied to him. I couldn't lie to myself. it was. a very clear answer of absolutely not I. am. so broken. I am. I don't even know what happy is anymore. and um. he asked me to go to rehab.

said that he would pay for it. and. immediately I wasn't ready for that. surrender though you know in that moment. I'm like no no I I've heard about these. 12-step meetings I'll go to those I know. someone that goes and um he came back. and was like I think that it would be. really good for you to have. these 28 days to just focus on yourself. and of course there's always the like. well I can't go because if this is. happening and this is how you know we're.

not worried about those things happening. when we're risking Our Lives doing drugs. or copious amounts of drinking we're. just worried about it when it's like now. we need to go take care of ourselves. and it's like the the addict Anthem is. like well let me just get my life. together and then I can go to rehab it's. not really how it works it's more like. um you know we come in very. you know we're at our worst no one goes. to rehab and they're like you know. life's okay but I think I need some. rehab no people come in when they are at. their bottom and I was at I was at mine.

and just saying yes to him that day on. the porch saying that I would go was my. surrender moment it was my white flag. and it was. the best decision I ever made in my life. hands down. have you ever reflected on. that crossroads moment and if you'd. chosen to go the other way and you'd. said to your dad maybe yes I am happy. when he asked at that family get.

together or when he said go to rehab. you'd said no. I think there's a good chance I could be. dead. um really absolutely and that was close. at that time. I've been you know. this disease. we think of um. we think we're so far away from Death. you know that we're Immortal and that it. won't happen to us and. um. I think I'm probably in my.

30s in terms of how many people I know. that have died from the disease of. addiction. um you know when I wrote my first. song about. the disease of addiction called other. side when I got out of rehab. um maybe in 2009. I had known three people. so we've gone up by probably around 25.

30 people since then. um I'm not naive to how quickly it can. happen. and. taking into account fentanyl as well. right now and what's going on with. street drugs. it's it's rampant we are we are facing. an epidemic right now around the world. but particularly in America I don't know. how it is over here but I think this. fentanyl is no joke it's killing people. um they think they're getting one drug. they're getting another drug and. the nature of the disease it is out to.

kill us that is its sole purpose and. um. yeah I'd be dead. I think so. you've been so successful throughout. your career with your music and it's. it's it's an interesting hearing those. stories of the struggle and the ups and. the downs and the battle with that and. then looking at your your catalog in. terms of music and I was it was crazy I. was going through I was going through. all your songs going back through the. through the years and I'm looking at the.

numbers on these [ __ ] records and I'm. thinking [ __ ] 1.4 billion views. 500 million views 500 200 million views. and huge huge numbers the records are. they feel Timeless when I listen to them. um there's a real real real talent there. which you know when I think about the. struggle you've been through then I look. at the back catalog of the work you've. produced from an artistic standpoint I'm. asking myself what's the relationship. here like has has that has your. struggles played into the music or has.

your struggles sort of taken away from. the music and your potential like what. is the relationship and what is what has. music been throughout that struggle to. you. it's a great question and it's honestly. a question that I think about too like. I've. I've kind of asked myself that same. question in the last 48 hours. I don't know if I have an answer. I believe that it's all panned out the. way that it's supposed to be has drugs.

and alcohol affected me being prolific. absolutely it's taken away work ethic in. moments it's taken away. um Seasons years of of time where I. could have been focused where I could. have been building momentum but instead. I chose the path of. um. instant gratification. and we were talking about this last. night there's one of my mentors and ogs. in my 12-step program are one of them.

um. you know her name was Rita and. she had this business card that she used. to give out to people and it said that. her greatest regret in life is trading. in what she wanted. in the bigger picture. for what she wanted in that moment and I. always think about my life in that way. of is this what I want for the greater. good for my story to be or am I acting.

at a place of Desire am I acting at a. place of wanting to change the way that. I feel right now knowing that that will. hinder me that's not really what I want. what place am I coming from. and weighing those. and I think for a lot of my life it was. no I want this right now and. that oftentimes is a destructive pattern. whether it was sex or with drugs or you. know whatever. um of trading in what I truly wanted. what I truly believe to be the truth.

because my truth is that I am the best. version of myself when I am clear when I. am. silent enough to be able to be a conduit. to something that is outside of my. understanding I couldn't even put it. into words it's that magic that happens. in the studio where all of a sudden. you're almost removed from the pen. that's writing the song and. um you know I choose to call it God but. that God presence that being is is.

absolutely moving through through me. I've never been able to feel that. um. without a spiritual practice music has. always been a spiritual practice for me. but. I think that it's made me who I am I've. made tons of mistakes and since I've. been famous I made tons of mistakes that. were that were you know influenced by. the drugs that I was doing or you know. the. the positions that I got myself in but. those also turned into learning moments.

they turned into maybe a song or maybe a. conversation or maybe the thing that I. needed to share about in a 12-step. meeting that saved someone's life I. don't know I don't know but I know that. um I'm here I know that I'm here for a. reason I know that my catalog. um is something that I'm super proud of. and you know beyond the numbers it's. like. last night driving from Birmingham into.

London. I listened to. Ben my new album. I hadn't had that really that moment for. a while of listening to my album and its. entirety because you're working so hard. on it there's so many nuanced things. it's like you can't even just enjoy it. and I sat in the car and I listened to. it all the way through and um. it's the best feeling to be like you. know what I I worked really hard on. something and um.

in all of these little moments all of. these mistakes all of this pain. eventually finds its way. into purpose. and I think that that's an i an artist. highest form is to be able to take pain. and repurpose it into purpose. what is giving you that or like you. describe that moment in the studio where. you're clear and you're almost. channeling something you'll hire. creativity whatever that is.

have you been able to figure out what it. is that causes those moments of of. clarity and and focus and stability and. then on the other side of the coin what. causes the the chaos in our lives the. instability is there any causal factors. yes. for me. it is. exercise. getting outside it's like actually. cardio. it is.

being of service to other people. it is a spiritual practice. it is coming from Faith rather than fear. it is thinking about ourselves less and. others more. it is being still in the studio not. thinking about what is this going to do. for the world but just actually being. present. and removing the ego. which is what all of those things. help facilitate right like when we when.

we're of service when we work out when. we show up when we're at peace when we. think about ourselves less we're. removing the ego I'm stripping it away. it's a process of excavation. and the opposite is when I'm thinking. about okay. what if this song doesn't work at Radio. what if this you know what if Tick Tock. doesn't you know do the challenge what. if uh you know whatever it is when I'm. future surfing. thinking about the outcome rather than. enjoying the process the process is.

where the magic happens. the rest of it I've never for all of the. records that I've ever put out. there has never been a moment of any. calculation that has worked. doesn't work the records that I've been. like oh yeah this is going to be the one. those are the ones with like two million. views on YouTube. and the ones that I'm like you know who. knows those are the ones with you know. that really affected culture that really. like got out there and you know the. world knows these songs.

10 11 years later or five years later or. whatever it is I think the intention in. the studio is so important because. even if you know even if I put out a new. album that doesn't stream as as well as. the last one or whatever it is that's. not my metric if I'm if I am basing my. identity around those numbers and those. metrics. um. I will always be disappointed. my bucket will always be half full and.

if I'm basing it on what was the. intention. what am I actually trying to get at. the music is going to hit who it hits it. was already written I just have to get. out of the way when I try to control. hang on when I try to play Puppet Master. that's when I become. miserable and um. and I'm not effective at my job. so two questions here they're on that.

basis. you know I'm sure people ask you what. your favorite record is whatever I'm not. really interested in that I know it's. like choosing your favorite children or. whatever and they're all different for. various reasons but in terms of the most. important record you think you've ever. recorded the one that you believe has. benefited. um others the world the most. irrespective of performance metrics what. what is that record. it's two records it's um Same Love yeah. and other side interesting and I think. Same Love is the obvious.

answer. because it came out at a time. where we as I'll speak for for America. but kind of you know. even more it came out at the time in. America where we were having this. conversation around legalizing gay. marriage where. um there was a shift there's a cultural. shift and. that song became.

became something bigger than than me it. became. a move a moment for a movement towards. equality and as a as a songwriter as an. artist as someone that um you know. Prides himself on. on the pen and the in the ways that it. can move spirit. that's the. that's up there that has to be one or.

number two the other one is other side. and the other side is a record that not. as many people know but it is one that. it was kind of the first you know it was. the first record I wrote when I got out. of the treatment and it was that I I am. literally not even here right now I'm. just trying to be silent enough in my. own head to just let this magic happen. but it talked about. the disease of addiction for the first. time and I kind of was like. ah I just need to get this out I don't.

know I I am an addict and I don't want. to like hide this [ __ ] and I know it's. not cool I know it's not gonna sell more. records I know it's not what anyone. anyone else is talking about I know it's. not what my favorite rappers are talking. about but I am an addict and I have to. be sober. um. and I need to let whoever was listening. me at the time the 2000 fans that I had. I needed to let them know that this is. who I was.

and um you know it said that we're only. as sick as our secrets I didn't want to. be sick anymore I just wanted to tell my. truth and that was the record to do it. and what I watched happen after that. I'll never forget people coming to the. shows you know six people 12 people. 14 people in recovery coming because. they heard other side and.

it changed their life and. I know what that feels like as someone. on the other end of it who's. life. has changed so many times by the music. that I was listening to. and. yeah it's those two those are the ones. I listened to a drug dealer earlier. and um I listened to it but then I. looked at the comment section and it is. like.

it's profound it's profound that the. second comment on that video is from of. recovering heroin addict who's crying. while they're watching that video. because it's making them feel heard seen. and understood. um in a really profound way and every. every comment was like that every. comment was. um speaking to like the liberating and. therapeutic impact that someone was. having on you know thousands and. thousands of people it's a really. profound thing it's almost you know.

it's a lot isn't it in terms of you know. you talked about those people coming to. a show the seven the ten the twelve. has that ever felt like and this is a. strange word to use but does it has that. ever felt like an emotional weight at. all because you're hearing these stories. I sat with Jordan Peterson in fact and. he talked about how people coming up to. him and telling them about their own. Journeys their own emotional path to. recovery or healing can sometimes feel. like a like an emotional way it's a lot. to carry. I feel the opposite really I feel.

I feel connection. it connects me to the art because I'm. not in the same place that I was in 2009. when I wrote that song my life looks. very different. I think when I hear people. say that they removed or they were. transformed or that they felt some. inspiration or you know whatever it is. um for one it's an it's an opportunity. and I think that maybe this is where.

Jordan and I differ is that. um. I'm an addict this person coming up to. me is an addict and there's an immediate. connection there that I can't describe I. don't know what it is but it's just like. oh. you got the same oh my God we had the. same thing. how are you doing with with your journey. how are you doing with yours. um and it's not a weight it's more like. ah thank you for you know. the the meet and greet of thank you so. much appreciate it thank you so much.

like that's a way that's just going. through the motions the actual moments. of people telling me those things when. I'm like okay let's pause like we don't. need to get through the line so fast. let's you know we'll get to the hotel. when we get to the hotel let me be. present with this person because. this conversation. is changing my life I'm reminded why I. wrote that record in the first place I'm. reminded of the beauty that happens when. we share honestly like those are those. moments where I'm like thank you that's.

where I feel like I am the recipient of. the recipient of a gift. um that's coming full circle because. they're reminding me. um of how important it is to. to share honestly regardless of how it. looks regardless of how it's perceived. and I think that so much of the time. there's this. you know well if I tell my truth will I. be an outcast will I be accepted will I. be kicked out of the tribe will I. um.

still be a part of we want to be a part. of. and. there's this thing that happens like. what happened with your friend when you. saw him finally when you saw him not is. the alcoholic that was [ __ ] [ __ ] up. in the house or messing up your life or. like why doesn't he just stop at you saw. him and his raw estate. that's his that's raw Humanity right. there and when we demonstrate that when. we can show others that we can be Raw.

it just. it inspires. because other people like oh I can tell. my truth too and I'm not gonna get. kicked out. wow. let me show up as my authentic self. quick one as you guys know we're lucky. enough to have blue jeans as a sponsor. and supporter of this podcast for anyone. that doesn't know blue jeans is an. online video conferencing tool that. allows you to have slick fast good. quality online meetings without any of. those glitches that you'd normally find.

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smooth that it's quite literally changed. the game for myself and my team without. compromising quality at all so if you'd. like to check them out search. bluejeans.com and let me know how you. get on DM me tweet me whatever works for. you. let me know how you find it over the. last couple of how long maybe four. months I've been changing my diet shall. I say many of you have really been. paying attention to this podcast will. know why I've sat here with some. incredible Health experts and one of the. things that's really come through for me. which has caused a big change in my life. is the need for us to have these.

superfoods these green Foods these. vegetables and then a company I love so. much and a company I'm an investor in. and then a company that sponsors this. podcast and I'm on the board of recently. announced a new product which absolutely. spoke to exactly where I was in my life. and that is heal and they announced. Daily Greens Daily Greens is a product. that contains 91 superfoods nutrients. and plant-based ingredients which helps. me meet that dietary requirement with.

the convenience that hewell always. offers unfortunately it's only currently. available in the US but I hope. pray that it'll be with you guys in the. UK too so if you're in the US check it. out it's an incredible product I've been. having it here in La for the last couple. of weeks and it's a game changer. social media you don't you don't really. do social media do you don't really in. terms of like engaging I heard that. you're not the biggest fan of social. media. ah. well that hurts my feelings because I. try pretty hard well I know I'm just.

kidding yeah. um like no I do you know but you're not. out there making you're not out there. every day talking about your life. insurance behind the scenes yeah social. media for me. is part of my job. sometimes I'm great at it sometimes I. mean I'm just this guy I'm like okay. what are we doing on you know social. media now and then it's like Zoop but. outside of work outside of work no I. mean I want to be present I want to be. like. you know it's like my kids show up today.

and you know my. videographer is like yo if you can get a. little bit of iPhone footage with the. kids like walking around like that'd be. awesome and I'm like you know asking my. wife five minutes into Norwalk like hey. do you mind getting some footage of us. walking like and I was like never mind. never mind never mind it doesn't matter. like. it doesn't matter what matters is that. I'm with my kids and then I'm being. president and then I'm happy. um and I'm and I'm off my phone because. I've experienced both ways and it's a.

balance right like there are times where. I need to be on my phone and I need to. be on social media and I need to be. handling whatever needs to get handled. but. um. no I think it's it's about the. relationship that an individual has with. social media and again it comes back to. intention is the intention for the most. likes for the most engagement for the. most followed like if that's what it is. then there's always going to be a void. there that's looking to be filled and it.

can be really toxic and I was talking to. you know a couple a couple guys on on. tour with us and and I you know 20 year. old 21. and just talk you know they're just. constantly analyzing Tick Tock and. trying to figure out why did this post. perform and this one didn't and maybe. it's because we're over in Europe and. the Geo targeting and all of this and. I'm like you guys are 20 like you're on. tour in Europe like go out and have fun. explore like live.

outside of tick tock and. when this is all that they've known and. that this in this platform is the reason. why I know he exists and why his songs. have gotten out there it can be really. challenging and I feel for the younger. generation and I feel for the older. generation that's like yo the label's. telling me that I have to do this and I. really don't want to be here at all but. here I am. post. um.

there's this there's a spiritual. sickness that can be easily. um. insidiously infiltrate our psyche if. we're just here Non-Stop and and I just. don't want to be. on that point of um you know those 20. year olds that are with you and you're. giving them that advice if you could um. you know you've had this immense career. and you know a lot of people have great. careers but yours has had so many twists. and turns and twists and turns that the. wisdom you've gained from every twist.

and turn I believe is pretty profound. that's why I really loved your. conversation with Jay if you were to go. back and be able to have a conversation. now with that young Ben at 14 years old. let's say right before that first. um. drink what advice would you impart on. him. about life. it's tough to say and it's you picked an. interesting time period because you. picked before.

and I don't think that I would have. I don't think that I would have warned. that 14 year old maybe I would have I. think that. but I don't think it would have done. anything. you know what I mean like maybe that. conversation would have looked like. bro you're an addict you're never going. to be able to shut this off it's going. to cause warm way more pain than good. but at the same time.

I can't discredit the experiences that. I've had that have led me to this table. right here in this moment and if it. wasn't for those mistakes. um. you know I have a different story I have. a different. um Arsenal to pick from in terms of what. moves me creatively and. um again repurposing that that pain. but a lot of that pain. has hurt others has hurt close family. members or my wife or best friends and.

um. those moments are hard to deal with I. think. if I could tell my 14 year old self. anything it'd be like bro you're gonna. do what you're gonna do enjoy it. find gratitude. a spiritual practice get outside of your. own head. get into the act of loving and being. there for others and. just don't stop.

I think that when I have stopped in my. life when I have let up on. on the gas not just like not stop in. terms of. the work ethic. but stop the spiritual practice that's. the thing that's always. brought me back. it's not the work it's not the amount of. Engagement it's not the algorithm it's. not the YouTube streams it's none of. that what actually. makes you happy and fulfilled find that.

thing and push into it as hard as you. can. that's where the magic lives. use the term spiritual practice to. describe what that is in in detail what. what you mean by spiritual practice for. you. well it's looked like many different. things throughout my my time here you. know in moments it's been a meditation. practice uh in moments it's been a yoga. practice and moments it's been uh you. know many 12-step meetings throughout.

the week or step work or working with. others but I think it's the art of just. getting outside of oneself and getting. grounded in the moment and serving. others that has been my consistent. consistent point of reference is you. know what. when you feel spiritually sick reach out. to someone else. whether it's picking up the phone or. call that person that you've been. avoiding or whatever just get outside of.

your own self do the thing that makes. you uncomfortable push into that because. that's when life all of a sudden. becomes vibrant colors come back it. becomes alive of like oh yes I I turn. this off I stop thinking about me and. what I wanted in the moment and I just. showed up for someone else and I found. that connection I found God in those. moments I found that little piece that. reminded me of who I am just by showing.

up for for another. second ago you talked about when you're. talking about other people you said that. one of the hardest things is knowing. that you'd go on to hurt other people. yeah. who did you hurt. I've heard my parents for my wife. probably the most. um. I think anyone that. I was being dishonest to you know. there's this double.

it's almost this double life that that. needs to be lived and you know when I. would go off and I'd relapse and I'd you. know I'd lie about it I wouldn't you. know. relapsing is. you know for me has always been a sneaky. thing it's not like I'm like all of a. sudden like hey guys just so everyone. knows I'm high again no this is like. quiet hush. um I'm trying not to get caught and in. those Seasons protecting that. and people are probably like yo what's.

going on with them like you know and I'm. lying about that and. it's just a really toxic. spot you know I'm gaslighting my wife. and and you know making her feel crazy I. think that that's probably. if she was here asked what's the hardest. part of being you know in a in a. partnership with an addict it's like. those moments where he made me feel. crazy it's not that I went back to the.

drugs necessarily it's that um. I made her feel like she was she was. crazy. and that she was off because she was. even questioning me and again turning. into someone that I'm like that's the. worst version of myself that's the. shittiest version of myself that's. something that in my in my heart I know. to be um. not the way that I want to treat anybody. much less my significant other or my. best friends or my team but here I am. again putting everything to the Wayside.

just so I can can continue to use and um. it's a pretty dark place. was there a point where you thought you. might lose her. yeah. yeah I mean. relapse in Coven. you know the beginning of coven. definitely was um. you know she kicked me out of the house.

and um I went to stay in my parents. condo and. I remember just uh driving around. aimlessly. like I'm gonna lose my kids. gonna lose his marriage. and I think the thing that. I think that's thing that scares me the. most is. um. if I'm being honest is.

not being in my kids lives and. the devastation that that would. potentially and that impact that it. would a divorce would have on them. and. the other flip side of it is I believe. the kids are resilient and that. that pain can be repurposed and that you. know. half of the world is divorced and you. know. Beauty can come out of it and does all.

the time and people end up in much. better situations out of divorce so it's. I'm not against divorce but for me and. my and my kids that was the thing that I. was holding on to was just this like. I want. our family to stay together and the fact. that I can I. it would be because of me it would be. because of my. self-centered. instant gratification Need to Escape not.

actually working my 12-step program ass. like that I would be the reason. that this family broke up and I would. have to to hold that and that weight the. idea of that weight. still seems too much to to live with I. know I could do it but in that moment of. that. that last relapse that was definitely a. yeah it was.

it was a real scare. into um. look what you're about to lose. for what for this. this doesn't even make you happy it. stopped working. right away it never worked it never. worked for you it never worked it never. worked in the long run even if you had a. good night or two in the big picture. um. you have an allergy. and that allergy is trying to kill you. every time you pick it up.

I've read um about a story when you were. in a I think you're in a hotel room or. something and your wife had taken a. pregnancy test and you would you just. relapsed and she was in the toilet and. you heard her crying through the door. yeah and you knew that. you knew that. those weren't happy tears yeah because. she was pregnant yeah. can you take me back to that moment and. just tell me exactly what happened dude. you were in it was a hotel I was there a.

house you were at our house okay yeah we. were in our home and. um. yeah it's it's kind of a I mean it's the. truth but it's um. yeah I'll just say it I mean I'm there. I'm high she doesn't know it but she. knows it but you know she hasn't caught. me yet and I just keep denying it and um.

you know her period was late went got. her the pregnancy test and I'm just like. begging to a God that I had no. connection with please please. let this be a negative pregnancy test. um. I'm not ready yet I'm not ready to be a. dad I'm not ready to give up the drugs. I'm not ready to give up the drugs and I. remember just like on the carpet.

literally like. praying. and then I heard the tears. and I knew what that meant. that she was pregnant. and. I knew that that meant that I needed to. get clean. and it was that moment of like that pull. and I think that that's the hardest part. I haven't really spoke about this I.

think that's the hardest part about. the disease of addiction is this pull is. the compulsion and the obsession for. more yet knowing that more is the thing. that is leading to. depression The Rock Bottom the not. wanting to be here anymore but it's this. just that at odds and I. I felt that. inner turmoil of just.

I'm not ready to be a dad because I. still want to get high. and I know I need to stop but I am just. not ready yet. and um. sure enough she was pregnant. and. I got clean. and she was pregnant with our first. daughter Sloan. so. you know I think my my reservation is.

just like Sloan watching this someday. and being like Oh it's tight so dad was. super high. um on the carpet and didn't really want. me that's not true at all either I mean. I was high and I at the time I didn't. want her but when I got clean it was. like okay let's have this baby like I. want to be a dad I want to be a dad who. um my kids never see loaded that they. don't even know that part of me that. they don't have to be like oh Dad's.

dad's high again or Dad's hiding or mom. kicked dad out of the house that they. don't even know that part of my my story. um. that's what I wanted. well if you come to learn about the. Journey of life and and as it relates to. like. and I said a second ago that the ups and. the Downs the ups and the downs but you. persevere and that's really all the. choice we have is to persevere and to. find something meaningful to aim at. today and then we'll get another chance. again tomorrow and we kind of like right.

off. yesterday and the day before because. with that side of our control now and. it's about what can I aim at today as. you sit here today what are you aiming. at like the past is the past like we. can't go back and change things it is. what it is it's I think it's important. to be aware of it and to admit it to. ourselves to at least to learn some. wisdom from it but as you sit here today. you're a you know as you woke up this. morning this is today is in play yeah. what are you aiming at today and as we. look off into the next sort of two. decades of your life what.

I maybe to a fault don't think about the. future. what I'm thinking about. is here. and then I'm like okay well let's zoom. out from here I have a show tonight I. want to put on a great show we're in. London um it's like 6 000 people sold. out like I want to put on a great show. what is it going to take for me to put. on a great show tonight. um. my family's in town in London like I I. just don't think like that yeah yeah and.

I. and I watched my wife who does and other. people who do and it's like I have an. inability. to think a big picture. I have an exceptional ability. at focusing on the thing that is in. front of me. and I believe that it probably has to do. with ADD and the way that my brain works. in the chemistry but it's what it has. created a. um a work ethic and a focus that you. know I can just be in the studio for 14.

hours or I can be doing a music video. and editing it and just keep going and. that's how I got good at my craft was. putting in those long long hours where. other people be like all right let's go. outside and I'm like no it's not done. yet let's keep working. um but in terms of the next 20 years I. don't know I don't know I I'm excited to. to Pivot. you know I don't think that you know in. a decade I'm gonna be like you know I.

can't wait to play the show tonight I. don't know. you know we'll see what happens but what. I have realized. and and part of this comes from. um you know working on my golf clothing. company bogey boys. which has been so fun such a labor of of. love and to be able to design clothes. and watch people wear them and you know. the the creative process that that has. been particularly in covid. that's not going to be my only pivot.

it's just not it doesn't fulfill me in. the same way what does fulfill me with. actual meaning. is. is our youth program called The. Residency in Seattle and thinking about. actually you know getting a permanent. spot. year long with Staffing where we have a. home for the residency that actually. is inspiring to me that has meaning that. has a lasting potential. that's deeper than like what color Polo.

is this going to be and I think that. they can coexist because I do enjoy this. as well I love bogey boys I love golf. but for the bigger picture. what do you want your legacy to be. and not for the purpose of ego but like. how do you want. to leave the greatest impact to make the. greatest impact with our precious time. on this Earth we don't have much we. don't know how much we have left it's. finite it could be you know gone. tomorrow what can you hang your hat on.

and be like you know what I took a risk. I got uncomfortable. I sacrificed I showed up I worked really. hard. I celebrated the wins I took the losses. on the chin and I kept going. that's the kind of life I want and it's. kind of life I wanted today and it's the. same life I want 20 years. regardless of where that leads me. all those years ago your dad asked you a.

question at that family get-together he. said. are you happy. all these years later you're sat in this. table in London. are you happy. I think happiness is fleeting. and happiness comes and goes. I think that what is sustainable is. meaning his purpose. I'm not going to be happy every day. it's gonna go like this in this moment. yes I am happy but.

but in general in in my life right now. am I happy I would say absolutely yes. but. there's trials and tribulations through. it all and what I have what I have found. is that those moments of of. of being tested. of. sorrow of. betrayal of. growth all of those turn into.

progress if we can use them as medicine. if we can accept them as blessings. rather than this idea this is one thing. I've been thinking about a lot lately is. just this idea of like. victimhood of mentally going to a place. of oh they wronged me or I'm a victim no. this is an opportunity this is a. blessing that has been put in front of. me and how I get to handle it now and. show up. and it becomes toxic in my mind if I'm. thinking of it about what are they doing.

to me how could they do this just like. we're talking about earlier it becomes. um medicine when I can show up from a. place of. I might not know why this is happening. but I have faith that I am absolutely at. the right place right now. and I'm going to show up. clean. I'm not gonna Escape. I am going to be my true self. tell the truth even when I don't want to. and.

um. and keep it pushing that's what creates. meaning and fulfillment and that is what. I'm after not momentary happiness. there seems to be a real authenticity to. your new album Ben and I think I mean. maybe that's even evidenced in the. choice of the name to some degree. because you've called it after yourself. um after the name that your parents gave. to you and throughout the album I felt a. certain sense of. I was gonna say I don't give a [ __ ]. about like what I'm supposed to be to.

some degree because. it feels like all of you as opposed to. just a narrow part of you if that makes. sense I don't know absolutely so like. because and I I say that in part because. I listened to the first record and then. I got like six or seven records down and. it was just like. you hadn't the first record didn't sound. like the sick record it was like a. completely different kind of expression. so I was thinking it's kind of someone. that has kind of just doesn't really. give a [ __ ] about what they're supposed. to yes make and they're making what they.

care about maybe that's my assessment of. it. um how accurate was that what was your. thinking going into this and how is this. project different to all of the other. projects you've I I think that you. summed it up beautifully and um. I love to be able to do all of that and. just like walking in the studio and be. like what what is speaking to me today. um. you know maybe it's a dance song from. 1984 maybe it's a you know I'm going. through something maybe it's a a pop.

song Maybe it's like I want to rap you. know. you know with Primo scratching and it. sounds like it's from the 90s like it's. whatever Direction I want to go is like. I don't want to feel limited like oh but. that's not what you do no I I could do. whatever I want to do. um and you're right in that it's all me. like those are all bits and pieces of me. and I think for a long time and that's. what I've always done kind of so how.

does it differ I don't know I feel like. all maybe there's been a little bitco. more cohesion on other albums but for. the most part that's what I've always. done is. those are all. those are all facets of my expression. and um. and I think it's confused people you. know because like it you know I'll have. homies that are like yo you dropped. Heroes and then you came out with this. like you know pop song with the music. video directed by your daughter like.

what is going on and I'm like yep that's. what I did but doesn't authenticity. confuse people anyway because Conformity. doesn't convince no you're right. Conformity fits yes Conformity fits. authenticity doesn't no and they're and. they want me to be this version yeah and. you know radio wants me to be this. version and you know this it's like. you're right I mean authenticity. confuses people and and and once people. can box put it in a box.

package it. be able to point to it that this is this. this is that. it makes it a lot easier as an artist to. um or as a you know Observer. to judge I don't like it because it's. this yeah versus like oh [ __ ] he did. that but then he did that and I like. that but I would never listen you know. whatever people are trying to figure it. out I'm like I'm just gonna keep making. the music that I've always made and. um again I have a faith now that it.

lands where it's supposed to land and. that process has been therapeutic for me. of just detaching from detaching from. the outcome regardless of what it is. just like. just make it because you love it dude. that's all I think that's a super you. know powerful lesson an important one. that I think everyone without maybe. realizing it can actually really relate. to I even have that a lot on this show. where I will have such a diverse range. of guests that on every conversation I.

have there's a comment saying like get. back to interviewing CEOs or why like. why is this personal why are you. interviewing Sports people or whatever. and there was maybe a point where I. thought. it crossed my mind maybe they're right. maybe I should just like stay in my Lane. yeah but the authentic me goes I care. about so many [ __ ] things right I. love sports I love businesses I love. music I love psychology so can I just. run the experiment. of being myself yeah and I refer to it. as an experiment because there's a.

perceived cost running that experiment. you don't know the outcome are people. just gonna stop listening running that. experiment has been. most importantly okay it's worked but. it's been great for me right as in like. I can show up every day and like my life. regardless of whether people want to. listen I can really enjoy this and. that's how I can run this as a marathon. opposed to as a Sprint right right like. when we can form it's like I've never. seen it be sustainable for my guests. when they're like wearing a mask for too. long. I could do this for the rest of my life. because I'm big myself do you see what I. mean absolutely.

um we have a closing tradition on this. podcast where the last guest asks a. question for the next guest not knowing. who they're leaving it for. and the question that's been left for. you by our previous guest is. there someone from your past that you. should have a conversation with that you. haven't had. if so why haven't you had it and what is. that conversation.

hmm that's a great question. as my parents. get older. that there's probably some conversations. there particularly with my dad that I. I go back and forth on having. and uh you know.

a relationship that I might want with. him that I think that there's some fear. around maybe he doesn't. desire. with me. and um. it's a tricky one with parents it's a. tricky with family like having. deep conversations around. what our relationship looks like or what. it looked like growing up or whatever. um. you know I'm from a family where you.

know you kind of you smile through it I. think there's a reason why I never heard. my parents fight. I think that there is a um. just be happy. don't talk about it just be happy. and uh. that hasn't been my experience on this. Earth and I think that at times it's. challenged them. um. and then at a certain point you're like. Yo dude you're dead 75 years old like. you know he is who he is and but I think.

if my dad. my dad passed tomorrow. um. I would probably feel like there was. just did I really make an effort to. connect. um. on the level. that. that I intuitively wanted to. outside of his reaction. to my words I completely relate to that. with my own dad yeah I completely relate. and I don't know why I've never had the.

conversation. um. I don't know what it is is it I don't. think he's got the tools I've not got. the tools we've not got the tools right. all three yeah oh yeah all three. um. but you probably do have the tools. interesting because you can have I can. have the tools with my girlfriend that's. what I'm saying well we've like learned. together how to do the tools but then I. look over at my dad and I go. uh We've not figured out how to how to.

do this together because there's like. there you know we go through different. there's like a Changing of the Guard. almost it's like our parents. you know my parents were byproducts of. of their parents and these are very. different times in Civilization. and where we have gotten to in terms of. talking about our emotions and and. mental health and being able to process. masculinity or ego or these things you. know going to therapy or going to a. 12-step meeting or you know really.

working on ourselves like. my dad's never done. any of that internal work because that's. not what men did in his generation and. you know sure there's exceptions but as. a whole. um my dad's generation was different and. I watched the younger generation from. from me. and the way that they're. fluid and love each other and and gender.

is a social construct and these walls. are getting torn down and I'm like I'm. trying to keep up with it and you know. I'm having my own moments of just like. wait how does this fit and what what is. this and I feel old all of a sudden and. they're just like don't you get it like. this is all fake and I'm and I'm trying. to you know so I think that going to to. my dad there is a certain level of just. communication about emotions that I'm. really used to that he's not because he. probably never had those conversations.

with his dad his dad was like in the war. and had five kids and like just getting. a meal on you know a meal to each one of. those five boys in the house was a. struggle alone much less trying to talk. about how you felt that wasn't part of. the day but if he wasn't gonna respond. then. and you had a chance to say those last. words what would those words be. irrespective of response or impact or. feedback. you know what I've come to the.

conclusion of. is that. we're all doing. the best that we can do. my dad's doing the best that he could do. and. instead of me because I have a lot of. friends that. didn't have a dad at all. their dad pieced out you know. and I think it's easy to particularly.

when you have kids. you have this idea of. what your parents are going to be like. as grandparents. and my grandparents or my parents are. great grandparents I want them around. more. not even for the child care just because. I think that family is so important I. think that nuclear family is so. important I think that we have. um. you know we we come from like. communities. where.

we helped raise children together and. you know. this porch looked out over to this porch. and we had actual tangible. um human connection. and I I think that. I've desired something in my. um in having kids and reflecting on my. own childhood and what that was like. with my parents now that I'm a dad.

and I'm like oh I didn't do any of this. with my dad. I didn't do damn what was my life like. oh he you know but instead of looking at. it like. in any way I am a victim because my dad. works so much or you know whatever it. was it's like my dad was amazing he. worked so much and he provided. and he sent my eyes to rehab. and he sent me to college. and he showed up with love and.

instead of like the opposite of all of. that like he's not doing this this this. this this I want him to be this this. it's like my dad is who he is and um. it's made me who I am. ensure I desire a closeness that I don't. know if we'll ever get to you know we're. in an open level of just hanging out. being okay with that. um telling him how I really feel. I don't know if that's important. um.

but. what's preventing me from having that. conversation is that. it's a hard. it's a hard conversation to have. family is so layered we're not talking. about like a friend I met six years ago. we're talking about this person that. brought me into this world. our DNA the very fabric the.

our identity this. it's a lot there it's a lot there and um. I think sometimes I question if. how much do you push other people to get. outside of their comfort zone I know. it's not comfortable it's not. comfortable for me it definitely. wouldn't be comfortable for him. how much do you I mean what's preventing. you from. talking with your dad.

at whatever level it is. I think it's probably just as to be. honest I think it's like I'm gonna say. things but I've just not tried in the. way that I should have it's just feeling. like. the bridge to doing that is not there. isn't what I mean by is like. I don't think he's got the tools yeah. and. I don't think I've. got the tools with him yes I would say I. would say exactly the same thing that's. what I mean you know because with my.

goal it's funny in Generations we all. seem to be able to do that sideways and. down as you said so like we could you. could probably have those conversations. with your kids and with your kids we do. all the time but as you've said when we. look up at our parents the generation. they came from they didn't do podcasts. like this where they think about their. feelings and emotions and stuff and. mental health and so. they didn't learn the tools and it's. like can you teach an old dog new tools. use on my part because that's what I. asked you the question about regardless. of how they respond yes if it if you.

because like my both of our dads aren't. going to live forever and what's going. to live on after they've gone is it the. regret right and I don't want the. regrets I don't want the regret either. so I just wanna I I'm I need to write a. letter also yeah and just send the. [ __ ] letter yeah you know what I mean. um. I guess this is a conversation for. another time because yeah you got a show. tonight at Wembley so. um I'm gonna let you go but um thank you. so much for so many things thank you. first and foremost for creating great. music that's brought joy to our lives. but I think even more important than. that music that has helped people in.

such a profound way not everybody does. that Beyond The Views like I think. you've clearly come to learn that views. are one thing and then impact is a. completely different thing and the. impact that I just saw in that one video. drug dealer is. would be profound enough life work for. any one individual just in the comments. section from what I saw beyond that. you've repeated that over and over again. and even on your new album Ben within. the first paragraph of the first song. you're taking me back to your own. struggles which I think is as we've. described that vulnerability you. demonstrate in these conversations in.

your interviews and your music is the. doorway to connection and I don't think. you'll ever even see the the extent to. which you've allowed people to feel that. connection through your music through. your art and through these conversations. so that's what I want to thank you for. and it's an honor to meet you and to get. to do this because I'm a fan of your. work I'm a fan of the man and I'm a fan. of of everything you've touched so thank. you so much and thank you so much you're. amazing this is incredible and I really. appreciate you having me you just you. have a light to you that uh. it's very impressive and I get it thank.

you Ben. [Music].