Liam Payne Opens Up About His Darkest Moments, Failed Relationships & Entrepreneurship!

[Music]. there are very few people. maybe just the five of them on planet. earth. that have gone through what my next. guest has gone through over the last. decade. very very few people on planet earth. that can tell you the stories he can. tell you. and talk to you about the lessons he's. learned liam payne is a. miraculous inspiring complex. very honest very vulnerable very open.

book. today he's going to tell you about. things that he probably shouldn't say. and topics that he probably shouldn't. talk about. but just imagine imagine being. catapulted into. stardom at 14 years old and becoming. what many consider to be. the modern day beatles he toured the. world with one direction. they had their ups their downs their. mental health crises. their scandals their relationships and. everything in between you know if i was.

16 years old and you asked me what i. wanted to be if i could. you know dream up my life i'd probably. say professional football player. or being in a boy band and traveling the. world seems like a life that we'd all. give everything to have but what you're. going to hear today is very different. and it might just change your mind it. certainly changed mine. so without further ado i'm stephen. bartlett and this is the driver ceo. i hope nobody's listening but if you are. then please keep this to yourself.

[Music]. liam crazy crazy year society. all of us have had with this whole. lockdown situation place wanted to start. it's just to ask how it's been for you. it has been interesting i feel like i. got the lock down the first depressive. part of lockdown. a lot later than everybody else because. our work went through the roof. and basically it was interesting because.

i had to learn. styling makeup hair all these things. that i wouldn't usually. do when i'm with my team and i lost. everyone because you couldn't have. anyone close contact so i just had me. and a camera guy that was staying with. me. so every job was like i mean we even had. one day where we set up our own green. screen. and we set the green screen up from 1pm. until. 10 and then record it till 5 o'clock in. the morning so it was like a whole day. so we were busier than ever and then we. started doing these online shows which. weren't really great. um with a company called veeps which was. good. and then i stopped working which i.

thought was going to be really good for. me because i was tired and it was. actually the worst thing in the world. for me when you say you stopped working. describe your day at that point um i. mean i was just finding myself on the. sofa. for the whole day just watching. randomness i've seen everything on. netflix. on your own uh no my partner's there at. the time okay yeah. it was it was it was wild and it was. dark because you can't really go. anywhere you don't really know what. you're doing and. and and and i felt like my career was. kind of in a funny place at that point.

as well and how i was agreeable with it. at that time. as well if that makes sense are you the. type of person that needs to be. kept busy i think so i think i've had a. crash course this last year in learning. to have. my own time because i mean you imagine. from from about the age of. 16 17 we were daishi every day so when. you don't have a day sheet it's like. what the hell do i. do and then the other part of it's like. you don't really learn what you enjoy. from that point either so it was that. that was quite difficult in lockdown. because you have so much time to. yourself. and then it was like i saw something the.

other day about toxic. productivity did you see this i've seen. this obviously they got a new ism. yeah for everything but it actually made. sense to me if i'm not doing something. that's. that's productive i feel like i'm going. backwards so that i'm trying to make i'm. trying to force moves and i suppose that. was one of the things i think i learned. most about myself i don't have to be. doing something every day to feel. good about myself where does that come. from do you think that need to feel like. you're moving forward. or it feels like backward motion i have. no idea i think i'm just quite driven in.

that sense. have you always been like that since. before one direction. you know i think we we just always. worked like i started. i was first on tv at 14. so that's young. it was tweaking an audience specs which. i think that point was like 20 million. people which was wild. so i was like 14 years old so from then. on my life's just been like. doing the same thing over and over and. over again until this point so i don't. know. at times you fall out of love with it. and i think that that trying to find. you know and also you're not under any. impression this isn't going to stop at.

some point. like a a life span for a average pop. star i've been i've. outlived most lifespans with that sort. of thing which has been amazing. really really cool and i think part of. that's probably from starting so young. but. you know it's going to end at some point. so you always want to find something. else that you're good at. so it's kind of safety cushioning. this is what investing has been my. god-sending that because i started that. really young as well and trying to think. about how i would do this or how i do. that asking like. you know like our old managers and and. people like that what they invest in and.

stuff like that which. kind of makes me feel safer and does. that that comes from a plate like mild. paranoia that this. might go someday right 400 it's like. doomsday profit like probably. you know do you worry a lot generally. uh i think i did. up until the last few months i mean. having a lot of time i think a lot of. people had this same sort of thing. alcohol it was just really it was. getting earlier and earlier. yes easier and easier to go to and for.

me i don't know i. it's i think there's there's a slight. little bit of social anxiety as well in. it that. you know it was already hard sometimes. to go out places for the thought that. you might like. packed or whatever you know there's. always that extra level of stress so for. me i've always been quite. withdrawn so talking about lockdown so. you go through that sort of depressive. period. i think we all went through that and i. think um for me what i kept thinking. about is like. if you just um go with the lockdown. you're like someone like me would just.

probably like hang around bed on my lap. you know my laptop what i had to do was. like proactively. steve get up and do something today go. put your shoes on [ __ ] you know. what i mean. but then the thing what i found about. that was sometimes. you ain't superman and you're gonna have. a bad day and my thing is if i don't set. out with my. aiming to do that day then i become more. depressive that makes sense. but it's just like i think the main. thing for me i mean i've always called. it like a small victories thing and. that's why i love the gym. because if i've at least been to the gym. that day then i've done something.

but then i started to like branch that. out more that it was called a family. member you know i spend some time with. my son make sure i get face timing. because it was the first point of it we. couldn't see each other it was the. longest i haven't seen my son in a long. time. um which was difficult but then it was. like as long as i've done one of those. things in the day then it doesn't matter. if i didn't do anything else. and it's like what i found more than. anything. at least with alcohol with all the stuff. it's like boundaries there were no. boundaries. so you know if you're on zoom you can. quite easily hide that you might be a. little bit tipsy at the point you. shouldn't be.

so it was like creating your own. boundaries creating your own routines. and that's where i think everybody. struggled. the most without routine and i noticed. you had a dog here yeah which at the. moment that's one of my things i think. i'm definitely going to get a dog. because i need. routine i need it so you start you start. drinking more and more during the. lockdown you realize you get you're. aware i put on so much weight i was. eating badly. and kind of described describing it as a. bulking period. it was a dirty bulk don't worry about. intentional i'm doing it for a movie. role.

yeah that's the best new new excuse if. anyone asks you put weight yes for a. roll. it's coming out you know 20 20 too um. yeah and i put a lot of weight on and. what got me i did one performance on tv. it was with the baftas actually. and i was disappointed myself but like i. was always a fairly sporty kid and kept. moving and like. i didn't look how i wanted to look you. know what i mean there's anything wrong. with that but just in your own self you. know how you feel about it and obviously. they say the camera adds 10 pounds it. definitely did. um and i saw myself for the first time i.

was like oh my god like i've completely. let myself go in this. and it was fine i kind of needed it and. actually it's been the best outcome for. me because i feel so much more. secure in myself now and i feel like i. know where i'm at again which is good. have you struggled to maintain. consistency with the gym. i know i have if you look like i did i. did i mean. training partners is the best one for. that you know and and. each of you put putting a session. together and throwing in different moves. because then you're doing something. that's a bit different you know i mean. we recently. my training partner i got to like a.

point where we're like a stalemate with. the stuff that we're doing so then we we. started like branching out to different. gyms and they have different kit and. then. you know um but i'm fair i'm fairly good. with keeping myself. on the go with it um i mean. like i said the only problem for me was. just alcohol you can't train and drink. and anything you can't do it all at once. you're gonna be a rock star are you. gonna be a star industry yeah that's. your choice. and do you think you've gotten a bit of. a sort of addicted personality in that. regard where you'll get into something. and just go all the way i mean. as an as an addict i want to say no but. i know i definitely.

do um yeah 100 i i think but. there's a lot worse things to be. addicted to than then look after. yourself. so yeah what's been the the upside for. you a lot of people listening to this. well especially coming out of lockdown. now there's a lot of people that weren't. able to go to the gyms because they were. closed. and now that you know some people just. need that little bit of a push. to understand what the value is of the. gym um and what's it what's the value of. the gym been. in your life i think because you're. going twice tonight the value of the gym. yeah yeah i mean i wouldn't call the. first one.

the first one's more of like a wake up. let's call it a vinyasa like a yoga type. i the first day i went to the gym in. lockdown i went and looked at the gym. because i was like if i go in there and. start moving around and throwing stuff. and whatever else. then i'm i'm not going to want to go the. next day and you have to slowly build it. up but don't go in and think you need to. do. 45 minutes because they're running the. magazine that they said this there's no. quick route for me it's three you need. three months for any significant. change that you have and then it's like. start 20 minutes. 15 minutes just go and feel it out and. then you'll find.

after a while the exercises you're like. oh my god i only have five more minutes. in here and i need another five minutes. and guess what you can have them. so then it's slowly like we've got we're. up to you know an hour an hour and 10. minutes now so it's like from. starting at 15 20 minutes but for me. it's just. like i say it's been able to get into. bed at night and have that small victory. to know. at least i did this and it was for me it. wasn't for anybody else. that's i think that's important and. you're not doing it to try and. get a sick i mean everyone's doing it. low key to try and get six-pack but. you're doing it because. it's a lifestyle decision for your yeah.

i mean i recently started. jiu jitsu and it's for me i want to be. able to do. what a lot of these guys are doing like. the funny thing jiu-jitsu is super. humbling because you just get thrown. around like. it's like a tiger eating a gazelle or. something i mean. it's wild so it's like as soon as it. happens and i was always quite a small. dude i've never been like a big guy um. i mean even when i did my underwear. commercial i was still like. 80 i think i was 75 kilos which is super. light right super life so.

when i'm in the gym people are like. throwing me over here and i'm like i'm. going that way today am i then i'm over. here and it's like. so i put i didn't want to put some. weight and i put too much weight on at. one point i was like. right i went alpha leather but it's more. for the the. fitness side and the jujitsu side that. i'm training as hard as i am. if you want to come in and meet guests. like liam and myself we've now had two. subscribers come in and watch from. behind the scenes. we're going to start picking more so all. you've got to do if you want that to be. you. is hit the subscribe button i wanted to. ask you some advice. i've been announced as a dragon on.

dragon's den and how do you feel about. that by the way. it's pretty cool it's cool because. you're a dragon like when some kids want. to grow up being a dragon yeah. yeah i know i i watched it when i was. 12. so it came out when i was 12. i used. to watch it and i've never missed an. episode wow that doesn't matter. i said to the team i used to pretend i. was a dragon sit there. pause the tv give my verdict at 13 years. old. all this stuff um the bit i wanted to. ask your advice on. is when it was announced you know i had. my little moment 15 seconds where like.

all of the press talk about you your. twitter blows up. lots of attention what advice would you. give to me. about dealing with this kind of noise. because you i mean. there's not many people on planet earth. that have dealt with. noise like that right. i think don't it's a really fine line. between getting too wrapped up in what's. going on and. not being wrapped up enough in it if you. know what i mean really i think i think. you know the things that hurt you the. most because you know they're honest.

so when someone says something new like. if they hurt you then you hurt you a lot. then you know there's some truth in it. because it hurt you if it's ridiculous. you just go that was funny. as if they said that you know what i. mean really so i think there's a there's. a fine line to tread with it and i mean. i've gone through eras where i was just. like a little clap back. attitude driven you responding where as. soon as someone would say something i'd. be like right well then. let's go with you and then i was i mean. i was a bit mean and nasty at points. actually it was a bit bad but. when you're a teen growing up in it and. people are like basically bullying you. and they get paid for it it's like. that's a bit outrageous so i'm gonna.

have my say. who's got the biggest mountain you know. what i mean but then it's like someone. said to me over time it's like. you know if someone says something about. me in the press in this country and then. i say something about them. it ends up on e news and then they've. made america i didn't get anywhere. so it's like don't bring people up to. your level if you don't think you unless. you absolutely have to and one thing i. would say. don't lose your phone doing this notes. if someone. pisses you off write a note about it as. if you were writing them a letter and. then let it go. just don't send it and then it gets all.

your. well you would tweet out but you don't. say it. that was the best thing i ever did it. was the best thing i ever did. really yeah so pop open your notes then. i just remembered one imagine [ __ ]. out no it's crazy because you read stuff. and i was saying to you. before we start filming like i've got a. baby apparently and a wife and then. you know yourself i know you're doing. really well yeah and i just thought. you know it's crazy that um there's not. a high regard for truth.

you know what i was actually on the way. into this i wanted to speak about this. because. obviously there's a lot in the in the. world at the moment about freedom of. speech and the press freedom of speech. which i agree with right we should we. don't need to dictate laws. my only problem is and my biggest. problem around corona. was the fact that the media were allowed. to twist our. thinking about corona as much as they. wanted to and they're still doing it now. but the fear mongering isn't helping. anyone. you know and these people aren't sat. there i know i've just written a great. article my boss is going to promote me. oh yeah but you just decrease the value.

of the pound. so your wages that you think are worth. more are now worth less. well it's a struggling industry right i. just don't get it i'm like. if it's a medical thing and it's the. world that is in trouble. maybe there should have to be something. in place that says this is true. or not that they have to put a. disclaimer and say you should take. advice from your local government. [ __ ] like we all read you for advice. and you are offering us a disservice by. telling us non-truths about stuff it. should be regulated. yeah i get that there's a hairdresser's.

account for me for people going oh my. god i can't believe what that liam. payne's done this week. what's he done now you know i get that. but for corona. yeah yeah we don't need to be going oh. yeah have you read the thing about this. new variant that's come from over the. border yeah i can't believe it. like someone from america phoned me the. other night like oh you're gonna be able. to come here soon i'm like. no i ain't no chance but we don't none. of us know we're all confused because. we're being. spouted fear which i just think is. terrible social media doesn't help. either because. there's screenshots knocking around. whatsapp group saying all sorts of.

yeah i mean that as much as this. technology advancing on us. it's like this slow road i mean it's. almost like the coins. thing at the moment with the the. bitcoins like there's some coins they're. actually seriously there to do a job in. the ship and then there's like the. [ __ ] elon musk coin yeah there's nothing. but just disrespect to love. like five billion like a bunch of like. it's. actually nuts um you said earlier you. made a comment you said that um. your partner at the time in referring to. lockdown does that mean you are.

i am indeed you're single yep me and you. both. where are we going no i'm saying to. myself. i feel like i feel like more than. anything at this point i'm more. disappointed in myself. for the keep on hurting people. that annoys me i've just been not been. very good at relationships and i know. what my pattern of things. is with relationships i feel at this. point i'm just not very good at them so. i just need to like work on myself. before i put myself onto somebody else. and i feel that's what you know that's.

why i got to my last relationship i just. wasn't given. a very good version of me anymore that i. didn't appreciate and i didn't like. being. and i can honestly say that i feel. better out of it i didn't feel good for. doing what. what i did but it had to happen i mean. that's the. corniest way of saying that was the best. for both of us whatever cool story bro. but it just feels like that very. self-aware for you to know that. you were oh yeah no i know it was a. problem so. i need to sort myself out and i already. feel good so. it's got me more concentrated you know. and i hope she's happy.

what is it you've discovered about. yourself in relationships that you're. trying to work on. you know what i mean. one of our old managers went to therapy. from being a manager of one direction so. we can imagine how that feels like the. rest of us definitely need some. and for me most part i was really. regressing from. therapy because everyone was pushing me. into it which is the worst thing you can. do. like it's almost like becoming sober for. instance you have to want to be sober. to start with not people taking your. toys away and you're going oh my god so.

it kind of felt like that whereas this. time i kind of threw myself into it. even though i didn't want didn't really. want to inside i threw myself into it. made my own choices and. i think for me my life's been so. controlled to a point. day sheets security guards you know. anything and it's all. everybody else is dictating puppet. master crap over the top of your life. then you just get to point where it's. like you have to take some control by. yourself and until i. started to do that with my life then i. was living for everybody else. and i'm a complete people pleaser anyway. so it was like nothing in my life was.

about. serving myself which then that just put. me in a bad place and finding enjoyment. from other stuff that i don't need. what did because i've always considered. therapy. for a bunch of reasons and the thing is. it's still such like a. taboo kind of crazy thing and i get it i. do get it i was i mean i was on the. phone to louis from my band talking. about it today and it's like. there was one moment last week and i. mean my manager's my best friend he's. been saying to me for a long time you'll. have that one awakening in the middle of. it where you'll think about stuff.

tonight. i mean i hate words like awakening and i. hate this like hollywood perception of. like. reflective work what the [ __ ] is that. you know what i mean but i get it but at. the same point i'm like. i don't know you keep it for you but. it's like i had this one moment that. that i found and i was like oh my god. that's just unlocked so many truths. about me and it was so insignificant. for something that happened when i was. younger and it was so to me it was like. a family joke. but now i'm like oh my god i've been. living my whole life as that character. and. yeah wild wild you'll love it scary.

really scary you don't know what you're. gonna find it's like no that's it it's. wild but. i'm i'm so glad that i one went through. what i went through this year. and two that you know i think this. year's forced something out of all of us. and for me it forced me to really look. at my life and go. what the f are you doing like grow up. and that was the point. and you say don't try to work on that. but did you regressed from therapy. yeah i always turned away from it and i. was always like oh i don't i don't need. therapy i'll sort myself out. you know your own worst enemy at that. point i'm really keen to understand.

what makes you a difficult you know. specifically what makes you a difficult. person today i ask this question. because i'm difficult to put a few. people in it. coming on down his best friend oh my god. every ex-girlfriend we've got a behind. the curtain. now that would be a weird room imagine. that drops down in there. oh my god. what would be the the consistent theme. as to why you're difficult today if. i think i i think my problem i struggle.

to be on my own sometimes. really yeah struggle be on my own and i. think i'd dive in and out of. relationships too quickly. and i've not had to spend enough time on. my own to really learn. about myself if that makes sense i. honestly just need a minute. i need to check myself but i'm really. i'm really keen so you. needed to spend some time on your own to. kind of understand yourself because in a. relationship context you find. that you kind of you're in and you're. out a little bit too much is that what. you're saying. yeah and i i i don't know i think the. biggest problem we have.

i'm proper perfectionist terrible. terrible terrible. so when it comes down to relationships. i'm always trying to star the. relationship as we all do you put out. this complete false character yes like i. might as well go in costume. that's why i'm like putting out. something that he's not there. is the person is absent from the room. it's like they tag teamed on the way in. on oh it's you for this bit yeah. i'll join in later on and uh i just yeah. i just need to stop doing that and then. kind of like one. encompassing someone else's life with.

your crap rather than like. just doing your thing and laying out. your store from day one that's my. biggest problem and i feel for my for. myself i don't lay out my store. i'm like willing to bend to someone. else's store and then i'm annoyed at why. they don't like what i like. amen so then i'm like oh okay but if i. just laid out the stall early on and. like. yeah i go up at 5am and go for a run. well how are we going to deal with that. so he's either in or it's not you know. what i mean it's not not to not. compromise. because some things you'll be like okay. that annoys you fine but. yeah for me i don't i don't do that i. lay out a completely different.

it's like a war worth when you wanted an. artist or you know. that's i've really debated that i'm. gonna. personally especially recently because. the girl i was into. is very into everything that i'm not. into. like like she's into like horoscopes and. like i don't know what's wrong with us. whatever i don't know so i'm there like. [ __ ] looking at horoscopes being like. no yeah. because you're trying to make spiritual. people scare me. but at the start of a relationship you. become more like them they become more. like you and then there's a couple of.

weeks months pass. you just regress to actually who you. actually are well you almost like i feel. like i hide resentments. from people sometimes and i'm like. something annoys me and i'm like oh. no it's fine but instead i'm thinking. jesus christ i wish she didn't do that. and then so then it's like then over. time i'm like every little thing starts. creeping in and i did this in my job. really badly because i would bend to my. job. and let my job overtake things that i. didn't like doing steve will vaccinate. like videos for stuff. and rather than going no until one day i. just was like i hate everything.

and now it's almost gone back the other. way now i've had to still reset that. like i'm starting to call people in to. do what i want to do rather than bending. to everybody else's stuff. you know and this cr you'll probably. experience the same in this you're. pulled every which way. you know and it's always about. impressing whoever's behind the lens. whoever's in the audience so i find i. feel conversations with crap that i'm. saying that. doesn't really help me because i'll go. home thinking why the hell did i say. that. what now i'm that guy oh my god you know. and then and then it's like but i was. saying it because i thought it would. entertain the other person.

it wasn't about me stupid. it's really fascinating that you're so. self-aware of all these forces at play. because it feels like you've spent a. long time really analyzing and looking. at your behavior i think that. that can that can have its benefits and. it can have its problems as well i think. i'm like over critical at points but you. know. you can't win everything being a. perfectionist. yep it's an issue yeah what how. to talk to me about what that means. specifically in your life in work. in relationships steve in everything.

steve's manager who sat behind the. camera. um i feel like we should publish. i know what i love about this is that. but steve my fans think that like. steve's like doing something to me so. they're always like oh liberty fellaini. he always looks for steve but it's only. because i like him. because not because he's like harming me. as a person but then there's like a. hashtag liberty for liam like they think. i'm like. sort of like prison child there's going. to be all these other people who are. just listening on the audio and think. you're calling my name. steve.

so my one thing i really got into over. over lockdown was art. and drawing oh interesting something. i've done since i was younger and. the point was find something to do that. doesn't make you money. was the whole point of the exercise i. was like okay cool draw it. i said to the person who gave me the. advice at the time i was like i. guarantee this turns into something. hold for later on in the conversation um. so i started drawing but then what i. found was. i was so bad at starting the task blank. sheet of paper and all that.

because i was so worried about what. might come out that i was like i'd sit. there like if something's not quite. right i like. it can ruin my day in a drawing if. something goes wrong and it's not quite. right i'm like oh my god. like i hate it that's the kind of thing. and how did that go okay i mean the. thing is once i got started and got onto. some stuff but then it was like. sometimes in that respect then i was. drinking to draw pictures because i was. so. in my own freaking way and it's the same. writing songs as well you can do the. same thing with everything you can trade. out all that crap.

and it's like that's why you know people. might smoke a bit or do whatever when. they. when they make a track but it's all. about getting out your own way and i. feel like. now i feel much more like i know who i. am and i know what i want to do so i. don't need to be in my own way i'm going. to go. you know i don't need these additives. they only make me worse anyway. in the long run right oh my god yeah. tonight today it might help but tomorrow. it's going to it's probably. true and are you still drinking reviews. no not some no no i've been sober just. over a month now i think it is.

hey my business partner he um when we. started the business. became an alcoholic about three four. years in because it was just too tough. and then he had like. severe suicidal ideation he actually. didn't tell me at the time and this is. why i was reading about your story. i could relate to so much of it because. he i didn't. say what i was going through to him he. didn't say it to me and then it was like. after we'd solved the business that he. was like i used to stand on the train. platforms and think about jumping in. front of the train. and i was like and he never told me and. but there was and you. i didn't know what alcoholism or really. mental health was at the time. but i'd go downstairs 3am in the morning.

and i'd open up the laundry room. and he's in there with a bottle of wine. at 3am the lights are off and he's just. drinking it. sat on the clothes i'm like get off my. [ __ ] clothes. i was like what the hell is going on but. you know and i read similar things. similar sort of. story or narratives in your story where. you know you were having moments of that. that kind of like ideation. you were having moments of suicidal. ideation and yeah i mean. there's there's some stuff that i've. definitely like never never spoken about. to do with it it was really really.

really severe. and it was a problem and and and it was. only until i saw myself after that i was. alright i need to fix myself. there's a few pictures of me on a boat. and i'm all like blowing out and i call. it pills and boo's face. and i was like this like my face was. just like 10 times more than it is now. and i just didn't like myself very much. then i made a change and the same thing. happened this year with with that sort. of thing as well but. the problem we had in the band and i. don't blame anybody for this i don't. want to seem like i'm whining or moaning. oh my god look at my life whatever. but it feels to me like when we were in.

the band the best way to secure us. because of how big it got. was just lock us in our rooms and of. course what's in the room minibar. so at a certain point i thought well i'm. going to have a party for one and that. just seemed to carry on throughout. many years of my life and then you look. back how long you've been drinking and. stuff you're like jesus christ that's a. long time. even for someone who's you know as young. as i was um. it was wild but it was like the only way. you could get frustration out in the day. or. being like trapped and you know i spoke. about to somebody about this and. in child development you know as a teen.

the one thing you need is. is freedom to make choices and freedom. to do stuff and it was the one thing. that. although we could do anything we wanted. it seemed from the outside that we were. always. locked in a room at night and then it. would be car hotel room stage. sing blocked so it was like they pulled. the dust cloth off let us out for a. minute and then. and then he's like back underneath here. and i'm like so crazy because. you're right the public will think the. absolute opposite we think uh. one direction those guys have got total. freedom. all the money and what they can do.

anything everyone's you know in their. nine-to-five jobs just thinking i'd love. to have that level of freedom that liam. payne has. to do anything but you can't do anything. right it's the opposite no i mean. because we were young i mean i actually. wanted to speak to you about this then. as well. so obviously you've reached. stratospheric heights young age it's. like. what i found was i didn't know i was the. boss until a long. until like a few months ago i still. don't even feel like i am now like i'm. such a child. and everyone i work with is like don't. be right older than me and wiser than me. and i'm like what the hell am i doing.

here with these people. so it's like you you you know when we. were 17 i thought the security guard was. like in charge of me like i was like oh. can we leave the room no. okay then not to worry i'll just stay. here that's what it was like so i didn't. know what the hell i was doing. you know what i mean it's like and no. one there's no guidebook they don't give. you a little. dvd on the way and saying here you're a. pop star this is what you got to do. so i'm like in the room like what are we. allowed to leave and then eventually. that becomes. like an angry person and i was because. there was points where it was toxic and. it was difficult. don't get me wrong we had the best time.

ever we did. but there was moments where. through you know i mean there's a. there's a big movement on it at the. moment and people overworking and. like you don't realize you have a choice. at that point. but in those shows sometimes they don't. give you the choice because you want the. dream but you have to realize. there is a sacrifice for that you know. rather than it just and like i say i. never want to come on on these things. and whine about stuff like i made my own. choices in life. you know being an alcoholic doing.

whatever else that weren't my choice. so you know it it doesn't have to be. whiny but it's just like. there was a sacrifice and i know what i. did sacrifice to be here. you know everything what i've come to. learn. everything in life all the good [ __ ]. comes with a cost. oh and i've i've learned just from my. own experience like. my success my sex is very different from. yours we went very different paths. but came with a clear cost because you. can't go from being uh. 18 year old kid that's like nick in. chicago town pizzas to feed himself.

to being to building a company by 300. million within six seven years. what a great sentence that was by the. way like i was a [ __ ]. loser like loner like i was in my room. first summers upon summers. on my own for just you know because i. couldn't my parents weren't talking to. me they said don't call us and to go. back to university years on my so he. wasn't speaking to my family. no friends because i couldn't even. afford to see him that was the cost for. me and what that made is someone who. again isn't very social on the weekends. i spend. 99 of my time alone and people are like.

oh my god i'd love to be i'm like well. and then and then i have the same thing. you have which is my brain is always has. a thousand tabs open and i can't just go. and sit on a sun lounge during. tan like tan tiny nights what's my brain. gonna do then. sitting in the bathtub as well but. that's it you're right and you know what. like think about someone as simple as. someone who like plays guitar. the amount of time you have to spend. alone with that instrument you're gonna. be missing a couple of other things that. happen in life exactly. and that's what it's like exactly and. that's for us for us as teams growing up.

you know i think people like i said i. started at 14. that's nuts like i was in my school i. remember very clearly the moment that. that that x factor like moment happened. when i was when i was younger. and i was playing football on a field. and we had an all-girls school right. next door to us. so i'm just playing football like it's a. normal day i've had a few like people. like shout me out on the street where i. was like oh i'm you know. 14 years old the whole school from the. other school. is on the fence i'm like banned from. that field for life. at first how does it feel it was wild.

but what their people. dialed yeah it was it was amazing i was. like i went from like. zero to like i was the you know it was i. think. i always say it's people i wasn't world. famous when i was 14 but i was famous. within my world. so it's like well i didn't leave. wolverhampton and everybody in. wolverhampton knew the hell i was so i. couldn't go anywhere. so you know and at that point i can't. afford a security guard i'm not special. enough to have any of these like. additives. i'm still on the 7948 to. you know my little my little christian. school and then.

what happened over time is and. you know people are people they they do. what they do but there was there was one. significant moment for me. where i knew that i lost it and i wasn't. gonna go back on x factor to be in the. band which would have been wild by the. way. i would not have been here right now um. but there was a moment i was in a. mcdonald's with like a new girlfriend i. had at the time. and it had been two years since the show. and i noticed my. shows decreased in number decreased in. capacity. and decreased in wages so i was like.

down and out at this point so i've had. fame and lost it and i'm like. nearly 16 years old so that's difficult. to deal with anyway at that age and then. i'm in mcdonald's. because everyone still knows who i am. i'm sat there and i literally remember. about take a bite this nice juicy burger. someone on the stairs goes. x factor reject and the whole restaurant. looks at me right i'm. 15 years old and it was just horrible. what a scumbag thing to say. i know but it was like that's that's the. thing it's like it was almost. like a shout out to say oh you think. you're special but you're still here.

in the most wolverhampton i guess you've. got to understand where that comes from. though from that person. what's going on well someone said. something to me today it's not what you. do it's what's happened to you. which i thought was quite i like that. quick interjection. as you know you'll sponsor this podcast. and i've been the biggest evangelist and. customer of the brand for for many many. years i drink cure. for a set of very clear reasons if i. don't drink heal. i skip meals because i'm very very busy. and the meals that i end up skipping it. for um don't tend to be the most sort of.

nutritionally complete fuel is. nutritionally complete. it means that in sometimes in 20 seconds. i can get. a meal in a bottle that tastes great. that's going to take care of my health. and for me. as you would have known if you've. listened to this podcast for some time. my health is my first foundation. today you'll have released a new product. it's the huel protein. powder 20 grams of protein in a hundred. calories roughly tasty as [ __ ] and it's. vegan. highly highly recommend trying it i've. tried it i love it. and i'm going to evangelize it for about.

it from now on. so tell me what happens from there so. you i don't want to go too much into it. because i know you get asked this stuff. all the time. so we don't want to go over old tracks. but that was your first sort of. experience with fame you then kind of. you feel it declining ice cube says some. stuff to you in the mcdonald's. live life carries on and then uh yeah on. the point because i really want to get. to this i know you're working on this. nft project. yeah and it's based around this feeling. of being it's based around the idea of. this. it was it was like a i want to call it a. syndrome i don't know what it was. someone told me something about.

fame you enter fame the age. you you leave fame the age you entered. it so for me that was 14 right so i'm. screwed. like i'm the 14 year old forever child. so that was always a big fear of mine. that i have to grow. properly now from what one direction. gave me i grew. massively in some respects to the point. that yeah i mean you all have. experiences when you have conversations. about. business deals and i'm the director of. like i was a director of a half a. billion dollar. industry at 22. and i'm like what the. hell does that mean all it meant was i. got to sign 10 times more forms than.

anybody else. wild right so but then in other things. like if i'm trying to pay car insurance. i'm useless. so that you don't grow in other aspects. of your life because you have other. people. do crap for you like picking up my post. i'm the worst person in the world i just. forget about it you know that must lead. you. open to be to be taken advantage of. right because they know that there's. some things you don't know like you're. saying. oh yeah yeah that's it and you're you're. deluded in your growth of whatever but. this is where the nft idea kind of came. from and it but it first started as this.

this little drawing that i did and now i. wanted to make my own character because. i was like i'm really good at drawing. but we have printers for that i don't. need to be a printer so then i was like. i need to make something so i made this. like. ethereal creature that was i wanted to. 3d print and stick in a uh like crystal. glass. box and the idea is that he's depressed. that he's it's like a wasp in a beer. glass type thing. ah okay magical creature can't get out. sort of thing so then we kind of came up. with this peritoneus idea. around fame and what does that lead to. and for me the way it speaks to me and.

the way the art speaks to me. is that i was afraid of the idea of. losing. you know having keeping the child with. me i was trying to it was like a monkey. on my back trying to get rid of him. whereas for now the idea for me is more. based around you know how do i enjoy. that. because what i love when i see my son. is that he can be whatever he wants in. that moment you know i'll be over the. house and he's like you're a bad guy i'm. a good guy. and i'm like that's great and then the. next day he's.

one of them girls from frozen no no i'm. doing this it's magic powers today and. i'm like wow. like we lose that and that's a lot of my. problem when i'm sitting doing a task or. whatever. the belief system in me has been trodden. on through life that much that now i've. forgotten about that. they have the ability to do whatever the. hell they want so why would you ever. want to. lose the child within you in that sense. wow. and that's coming out as an nft soon. coming out as an nfc. uh in like two weeks i think it's quite. scary it's wild because i just made it i.

made it one day in lockdown and then. sent it to my manager and we enjoyed the. pieces it was but then it just kind of. grew into this thing at the same time. that nfts were growing. right that's the thing i mean have you. how many people ask you what nfts are by. the way. um so many of them a lot of people like. i'll get dms all the time and you know. i'll try and describe what it is but. i think if you say something with enough. conviction people just believe it anyway. so i'm like you know broccoli yeah i'm. like no i'm just saying anything. yeah i know what it is i've studied it. i'm working on a few projects at the. moment with nfts but um.

i'm just you know with all these. emerging technologies and whenever. something's new. i'm kind of like probably a little bit. like you and christian i know you're. very very entrepreneurial and. investing a lot now um i just want to. be in there like a sponge so i want like. a. a flag in there just so i can learn so. yeah. well i mean i think that's a common. misconception about this sort of thing. as well. is that you always come up with the idea. that's coming to you rather than like. you say being that sponge in the middle. of the room. if you're not part of the million dollar.

conversation you were never part of the. [ __ ] conversation. and that's literally it's like be in the. moment like rather than trying to make. decisions or. you just have to learn about that stuff. and you don't have to know everything. you just have to know someone that does. know something you know what i mean yeah. the thing is you get older i think the. wildest thing is that people. those phrases that they used to say to. you as kids like when i had my child. my mom's saying to me oh like you're. growing up so quickly like blinking. you'll miss it. and like you're a kid you're like yeah. i'm sick so i chill out but then as you. get older you're like watching it and i. watch my song i'm like oh my god.

yeah he's telling me off now. they grew up so fast my niece i mean. i've got a child of mine according to. the daily mail but you know just like. this where did you get those legs from. um i've been teaching mine to swim i. mean we had a really good conversation. today and it's like it's a whole new. learning experience once again there's. no handbook. and you're just like out there on your. own i still feel like a child in so many. ways. as you've learned from my nfc yeah yeah. but i'm watching him and like i played. him a trailer a movie trailer it was. this simple i played him trailer for a.

thing and we watched it. and we both like i like that let's stick. that on it was just disney's. rayo and the dragon thing it was about. you. you and your newfound friend and uh. so we sat there and then i turned the. film on and the first shot of the film. was from the trailer. he's going why are you playing this. again i'm going no no it was. we watched a trailer no but why is it on. the tv again. and it kept like bits get flashing and. i'm like oh my god this is not helping. me. so then i'm like okay let me how do i.

explain this i was like you know like if. we like have a plate food. and like i feed you a little bit and. then you go oh and you don't want it. then i take it away or if i feed someone. you go oh yeah and i give you the whole. thing. i was like that's like this and then. he's going. yeah but why are we watching it again. you must do you get scared as a dad. about doing the wrong thing or the right. thing because you say there's no. handbook so you're like. if you feed him this or if you say this. he's going to start saying the c word. at school like i do oh when he did swear. once i was happy i wasn't around for it. because i couldn't be blamed. and there's a way to root out find out.

whose swear word it is. because it wasn't a combination i would. use oh really so i knew it wasn't me. mummy who was it who was it we won't go. into that. you said i don't normally loop back but. there was something you said which. which again my mind thought oh that's. really intriguing is you said that you. weren't going to reapply for the x. factor. potentially where do you think you would. be. and i'm going to ask you various. iterations of these questions where do. you think you'd be in your life now. if you hadn't have applied for the x. factor so you won the business plan.

that's what yeah yeah that's what you. really want to hear do you want to hear. this. yeah you know hey i'll lay out for you. this is this is my this is actually my. like plan b systems range child okay. so i got a job at the same time this is. really wild. work experience week at school my dad. worked at a factory and i was always. obsessed i was like this is adult lego. and he built aeroplanes i was like this. is amazing i'm gonna do that. so i went and i built airplanes and they. had like a little collection for me. different i did like 400 quid and. everyone i was like what did you get. paid for your work experience so i was. like. nothing i was like oh i got like 500. quid but in the middle of my work.

experience i went on x factor so it was. almost like i was trialing. my two lives almost like uh what's that. sliding doors film or whatever it's. called a butterfly effect or oh yeah. yeah so my thing was i got a job and. secured one. there for an apprenticeship which was. like 22 000 a year or something. and then i was like right i know my. sister paid 60 pound board at the house. so if i just like board at my parents. house it's 60 pound in fees. then i can save up the other money. enough to buy my first house and then. rent it out. all right so i was gonna collect the. rent buy another one and then move into.

that one and then it was almost like a. conveyor belt system nice you had it all. planned out i had it ready to go. and then x factor room i mean you say. your your favorite tv program was. dragons then mine. was i watched help my house is falling. down and location location location and. stuff like that when i was a kid i was. like. obsessed yeah and then for enough my. manager does. loads of properties are you in the odds. are you into property i love property. really i i wasn't very good at it at the. start but i'm getting better. you need to teach me some stuff because. i have zero properties i'm renting this. place um.

i was going to say to you um with them. when you do a show like x factor. what a lot of the sort of people that. come out the other end of these shows. often say especially i mean very few. have had the success that you've had. right. but i can imagine and i think i've i. think i might have read this somewhere. before maybe from little mix. is you you feel somewhere in you that. you still have something to prove. because. talk to me about that i mean because. your success was.

is just stratospheric it's like in a. league of its own. it's wild so to hear that you feel like. you still have something to prove. is surprising well i mean i think. there's a problem that. us as people we all want something that. we feel like we made. but the older i get and the more things. i'm like privy to. you don't really make anything on your. own ever like i think it's just about ed. sheeran the rights on his own even he. doesn't write music on his own so it's. like. for one that feels a little bit like. that because you were in the band and i. suppose. for each of us as members we wanted to.

see what we could do and i you know i'm. really happy with my success. as well what i don't know is. how how much of this idea was was mine. to go with as to be in the music career. you know you worry about like the life. that you might have missed over i was. gonna do this whatever. i always quite like the idea of the army. as a kid that's something i definitely. wanted to do sas. yeah i love the idea of the army and. boxing's another one i mean i've been. i've been fortunate to have a bunch. of fun stuff um but yeah i think you. always feel like you have something to.

prove and i think the end of the day. you're just you're only really proving. it to yourself because no one else. really cares everyone else just looks at. you as what it is. and it's not that you want to beat your. brand because no one will beat. our one direction not one of us in our. lifetimes in another lifetime somebody. might. might crack something i mean bts have. had a really good go at it they've done. really really well. um but we were like the new wave of the. beatles. and even still people just didn't say we. beat the beatles you know what i mean. you're never gonna. yeah it's different different era. exactly and that's that's what happened. with our fame as well we were just that.

of this era. same with justin bieber right who the. hell has beaten that run come on they. won't they'll. someone will be different exactly. exactly so it's just like i think in the. end it's you're only like. fighting against yourself i sound like. rocky barbara now. i'm really intrigued by all of that. because you you also have these five so. you have five band members. they all go off and do their own solo. careers. and i always are you do you compete. against each other do you try and stay. out of each other's lanes are you. thinking about oh my god i don't want to. be. seen as doing you know what this. person's doing i think we did compete.

with each other at a point. but i think it's all fairly like it's. laid out as it is now and we've all had. our success in completely different. areas. and also musically we didn't really go. down the same route. i think harry harry's done amazing you. know i mean first album he had the one. song off which is really really well and. then his second album. he found himself and that's that is your. awakening his eyes that's when it really. clicks i don't feel like i've had that. moment within me. yet i've written some songs recently i'm. really proud of and happy with but i.

don't feel like i've had that moment yet. stripped that down. came out and it was we did a billion. streams and i could have. never asked the town i could have never. asked for that in a million years but. when i was making strip that down i was. a box of frogs. i was nuts it was wild i didn't know. what the hell was going on and also i. didn't know what the. what the you know the hot potato i just. landed on me are we just a billion. streams it's like. it literally is like hot potato one. minute's here the next minute it's gone. so you know i'm excited to see what the. next. the next six months of this brings you. know. um i'm excited to see to see we have.

some. a really cool song in the pipeline um. which. is really exciting wow really exciting. then the song one of the first ones i've. actually. written myself um. with some other people i didn't write by. myself um but it's yeah the first one. i've really liked. and i think i got so used to carting. around other people's songs and not. embedding myself creatively in what i do. because i was. scared to find out who i was. so it's almost like that's the thing. when you're selling yourself you have to.

know what the hell you're selling and. i'm you know i'm sure. most people wake up every day going i. don't know what the [ __ ] is going on and. you have to fail to find that out right. yeah. because you're gonna have to try some. [ __ ] experiment oh my god and it's like. so say like you're like geeky kind of. growing phase between. say 16 to 21 if you're lucky it might. last a bit longer if you're [ __ ]. you i did that in front of everyone and. there's some terrible outfits. there's some terrible haircuts you know. and that's some great. that stuff is there forever i've gotten.

away with a few heck yeah. i feel like you've had some great ones. the short haircut i think not a lot of. people can pull that out i gotta have. like a melon head thing at the back so i. can't. i can't do that people think i'm an. alien but um no you've had some good. haircuts i've gotta be honest. when i read something about um strip. that down. you said that you were almost scared of. the success just as much as scared of. the failure oh. man i mean no one trains you for the. moment it goes right right. so you leave one direction you've got. your big sort of debut single coming up. and you're scared of the success i was.

really. worried because i know what that can. bring to you. what can i bring well i've never i. i finished a day one of the one days. that stuck out for me the last. few years where i did a whole day's. promo in new york. and on the night time i was on i think. it's an andy cohen show or something. and they had a drinking game and someone. asked me a question about one of my. ex-girlfriends and i did not want to. divulge. what the hell went down and it was a. drinking game so i i was like they were. like we can fill it with water but me. being me was like no if i'm playing i'm.

playing for real. so i'm like necking tequila oh gosh boom. and. i'm wasted i get home at half past one. bear in mind i started at like. i want to say eight o'clock in the. morning i was then asleep and i woke up. at half past three. for vocal training to be in central park. at seven for grooming at five and in. central park for seven o'clock. bear in mind i've been to bed at half. past one so i know what it can bring in. that. that crap will send you insane i don't. remember some days i was here. like that will send you round the bend. but it's the you if you want it.

if you want it it's out there for you. you can go ahead and take it but it's. like you have to be. a workhorse to want to to do this and i. think a lot of artists would say that. coming out of it but i don't think it's. you know it's unfortunate the demand in. our industry and also the demand of how. quickly people receive information now. you know our 30-second time like. goldfish time span that we've got now. i mean i definitely have that i'm the. worst. and it went really really [ __ ] well. it went really well and then it was like.

you know the problem we had was it was. like having a baby the thing. was nine months to get the number one in. america so it took nine months to work. the record just to get the number one. so if you can imagine singing the same. song every day. for nine months and having like one or. two songs to back it up with. it was like pretty like. i'm sure somewhere that must be like put. down as a method of torture yeah. i can imagine you must but this is the. job man and it's like it's. listen the first few shows of anything. are amazing and then after a while it's.

like. you'll find bits that will like great on. you and whatever else but you know. i've been so lucky to have the career. that i've had and and. you know let's hope for more of that. that's that's what i think at this point. but it's learning how to deal and. channel that. and what's your relationship like with. the rest of the boys i'm sure you get. asked this all the time. great with most of them um i think. everyone's. settling into themselves at this point i. know i am for sure um. uh i had a lovely phone call from harry. the other day was checking in on me and.

and it's almost like some people got. sixth sense for you right that you're. going through something so they'll check. in and he's. very much like that he's a lovely lovely. boy i i love him to pieces and then um. louis i speak to. a lot um and we've always had a really. really close. connection and the funny thing for us. and i've said this a lot but. we we hated each other at the start but. it's almost the people that you grow. closest to you know i mean i'll say it. because he bought it. quite recently but you know the whole. thing gonna talk about the reunion like. for me. i'd rather be talked about it sooner.

rather than later because i don't want. to. it's tough touring touring that that. sort of record and then and i enjoyed. touring for what i enjoyed it for but. there's parts of it that really really. [ __ ] me up man in a sense i'll be. honest with you. um but none of us talk about it it's. like his taboo subject like oh we can't. get back together what do you mean oh my. god like us in the same room. what the [ __ ] is that about what [ __ ]. you up about touring uh. my dad said it from day one lonely hotel. rooms man getting locked in that room is. not fun when you've been. exposed i mean i've come off gigs before.

i did a gig in. in dubai i was really worried no one was. gonna show up it was one of my first. solo gigs by myself. and i suppose i'm uber self-critical i'm. always like i don't know what the hell. is going on. so i get to this park and the capacity. for the park is like. you've never seen i'm looking at like a. park i'm like the hell. and i'm thinking we're getting paid a. lot of money to be here this is gonna be. really embarrassing if nobody shows up. and i don't know anybody in dubai i. can't even call 10 friends to be here. so i'm like at dinner i'm not eating my. food and whatever else then i get back. to the gig and.

there's people chanting and kind of liam. and i'm like okay there's people here oh. my god i can chill. i get out there and i'm like awash with. these sea of people. and i noticed the sound systems hella. quiet behind me this make any sense i'd. get through the gig and you autopilot. the hell out of it. when i got off stage they're like oh you. broke a record you're on a list with. michael jackson. there's 110 000 people i'm like. and i was like i i sh you know i got. back to my hotel room and i was sat in. my room on a chair like this. and i was about to go to the maldives. with uh with cheryl and bear and i'm.

like. i don't think i can go to the maldives. right now i can't move off this chair. how did you feel on that chair shocked. why like for to go from like i don't. know who's going to be here. to then i looked on the thing and it's. like oasis robbie williams. all these amazing you know ac dc all. these outdoor gigs amazing outdoor gigs. and then just me and michael jackson and. he's in there like three or four times. he's. you know he is the list but i was on the. same list i'm like what the. it can't be easy like go with a white. hotel room.

it's almost like you know like in that. in a movie where they throw a grenade. and he goes. and then everyone's like and you still. feel like you're like oh my god like. yeah because i've done 9 000 50 15 000. in sao paulo i mean i did a talk with. obama that's me name-dropping oh wow. but um but it it they're not chanting. they're all very quiet i mean they clap. at the end but but how did it make you. feel you just feel like a diff. i can completely relate because i i was. thinking last year i lived in new york. city but i was i was speaking around the.

world 50 weeks of the year so i was home. four weeks. and yeah i go back to the hotel room. sometime you know i haven't eaten. because of the adrenaline. um and yeah it's very lonely and you're. like were youtube and what do i do. now yeah but 110 000 people screaming. your name. and you're performing i had the prince. or the king or the something to buy. dancing to strip that down oh wow i need. to get that one. country conveniently you can't strip it. down which i thought he was up dancing. yeah we were talking about the touring. here the touring park really messed up. so the hotel rooms.

yeah a return of one yeah you know i i. saw like a thing of people being like. angry at x factor these last few weeks. and i wanted to say something about it. i don't really know what to say on my. terms because i feel like there's. obviously going to be some people in. there who are bitter. and you sign up for this show you don't. really know what the hell you're getting. yourself into but i would agree and i. we've actually gone out of our way as a. team to make this possible for me. and i think a record label just bought. into the idea. of what we've made and i was the guinea.

pig. right so pick the craziest person in the. room to start with that's a good place. to start. and uh we made this this thing to like. care for people in the industry because. we don't have unions we don't have. people to look after us. and i was a kid you know i was a child. when this happened to me and i'm very. fortunate to still be here today to be. able to tell this story but for most. people. they feel abused or or something in some. sense. so i just think that there needs to. there needs to be a self-care. a care system within these shows because.

if they're gonna. move people through these shows and use. them to make television. they can't just like let them off. afterwards and i could never watch. x-factor because i was always. heartbroken. because i'd been the guy who made it. really far and then got let go and it. ruined me when i was 14 i. was crap at school depressed like. it ruined me at one point but i've also. then been the guy who. i think my dad actually came out and. said it in in the thing we were filming. once he was like. you've been told no more than any. winning x factor contestant. or like any successful exercise thanks.

dad it's great to know. what an unusual experience wild. if you were to tour again would you do. it differently would you have. i don't actually even know how i would. tour again i i really want to and and. like. i want to put i i always said throughout. this solo career i'd let my song book. speak to me. and i don't think my songbook has. necessarily spoke to me enough to get me. off my ass to go somewhere yet. i only became a solo artist because i. had to strip that down. i wasn't gonna do it i was gonna leave. it alone music yeah.

i was gonna leave it hell alone i was. like survive once. thank you very much but now i'm back in. why. because the song i knew it was right it. felt right with the song whereas i. haven't had that and this this year. the song that we have i feel really. right about so i would rather let the. music do the talking than me. come out and try to force him i mean. he's such a fast-moving industry these. days it's one of the biggest races in. the world right if we had a start line. for how many musicians there are. trying to make it right now and who's. going to outwork the other one we'd need. a very big track. um so it's just kind of got to that.

place that we don't need any more. useless music in the world. in my eyes it needs to mean something. said. there's something you know in the. previous answer that you've said online. which is. that you're lucky to be here one of the. most moving things i've ever. seen which honestly disturbed me and. stayed with me my entire life was that. avicii documentary. and the way that his management were. pushing him and he had social anxiety. and. oh god it just haunts me you know what. with those things.

i mean i've spoken to managers who have. lost people in different and and you. know i've definitely put strain on a lot. of people in my life in the back you see. it let's be like a basically different. person i don't like talking about it. um you know i i think it's hard. it's just as hard for the team around. you at points as it is for you. because we didn't all know how the hell. we got here. everyone's kind of looking around like. we don't really know how the hell we got. here. so where's the next move and there's. always someone who will pull you through.

i've been very. very fortunate now with the people that. i had to pull me through my my bits. um and it's you know and that's why i. say this care system is so. important right we music is the. lifeblood of a lot of our things it's. the background to our movie scenes when. we're sat in the back of the car looking. long fully out the window. but then we don't want to look after the. thing that's kind of feeding us that. much. you know what i mean so i think for. artists in the sense they do need that. i feel that it doesn't need to get lost. in translation in other things. it genuinely needs to be a care system. but then everyone's over therapy these.

days in that sense anyway but it's like. if you want it it should be available. you know is that was that is there a. moment where you look back and say that. was. the lowest moment for me that was the. pivotal moment a few of them i was. worried how far my rock bottom was going. to be. where's rock bottom for me and you would. never have seen it i'm very good at. hiding it no one would have ever seen it. but rock bottom. i mean i don't even know if i hit it yet. you know what i mean i feel like it's. like one of those little graphs you see. when it's like oh we hit the. the uh you know my biggest support the.

market support yeah it'll be there at. least. a support level oh my god you know it's. the same thing. so it feels like i can even make that. choice now and and pick my last moment. as my rock. at the bottom or i can make a new one. and make a whole new low that's my. choice you you said online that you were. you had previously been masking your. emotions and feelings. and this was something that you were. trying to trying to get over. um said you you tried to learn to deal. with your emotions instead of masking. them.

how important has that been this is. something i really struggle with because. anyway because. i was ceo of a company you know 27 years. 26 27 years old 700 employees. and that's wild wild is it all around. the world these adults are double my age. and i have to be right my business. partner. he'll tell you yeah he fell away right. alcoholic. upon all this weight depressive anxiety. fell away so. i'm carrying him because i need because. we're. we co-founders we're seen as a unit so.

when he's out in the street and i don't. he won't mind me saying this because. he's been drinking all day with the team. and he's stealing bottles of wine off. other people's tables just total. strangers. and he's doing things in public which. you get arrested for. with parts of his body that i'm not. going to talk about when he's doing. those things. i'm getting a phone call i'm 26 and i. have to not only manage him. in my business partner but then i'm. having to manage all the impact that's. had on all of our employees. and i felt that i could never. talk or be vulnerable you are the thing.

i find so. that's why i said it's not people don't. realize it's not. just you know and what happened to. avicii is terrible by the way and i. haven't seen the documentary i didn't. watch i actually knew someone who knew. who worked with him he wrote with me as. well and he said that what he saw was. going on was not good. but for the most part for a lot of these. people. there's usually somebody in there that's. not very good but. everyone else is trying to help and you. don't see the effect it's having on them. as well. you live and die by the sword i live and. die by myself that's it but the person.

who's behind. trying to pick up the shield to help me. they haven't even got the [ __ ] sword. they're just. diving into battle for you and that's. the difference you know what i mean it's. like people miss out on that bit so it's. never. just on that person you know what i mean. a lot of my stuff first you know. if i hadn't had the help i had i don't. know where the hell i'd be right now so. that's a credit to you in a sense. it's um it's super super tough i think. with the um. the bit that i i really respect you for. though is you're. very open about it you talk about it you. talk about going to therapy you talk.

about. your lows you talk about being unsure if. you would even be here. and that's going to do a lot good for a. lot of people i hope so i mean. like the worst bit for me is i think it. seems so much as a tool. these days to hide behind the points and. for me it's never about. that situation i'm just telling you as. what it is. and it's that's the bit where i think. like i say i don't want any of this to. get lost in translation i am not. one percent moaning about my life i i. love my life at the minute my life's. great. it's had it's upside it downs but it's.

you know yeah i think i'd rather. talk about it and it's therapeutic for. me and it's been a really good chat by. the way this is a cool chat i like this. chat a lot. there's been some [ __ ] ones i mean. yeah because i'm genuinely asking you. questions that i give a [ __ ] about. yeah that's it that's the point though. and i'm telling you to think this if it. matters to me not trying to hide behind. some sort of. [ __ ] thing you know and like i say i. think there's. many people who have this effect on on. on therapy and all those things and. sobriety.

and i ain't saying everyone at home by. the way should go sober. i ain't telling them to go vegan i ain't. telling him to do whatever i'm saying. this is what i did and it worked pretty. okay for me so far so you know. you're making you made a movie you wrote. a movie right i've been working on. something for a while and me and. christian spoke about a few weeks ago. and it's funny that it's based around. aaa but i had a really weird. aaa experience the first time that i. went into. well for anybody that doesn't know uh. alcoholics anonymous right um. and i my first experience was with.

russell brand. which if you've seen game to the greek. or any of those other movies. i went to his house and i love. russell there's something about that. sentence which i can't get over my first. experience was with russell brandon okay. i mean yeah exactly all right so i'm in. his house i'm in this dude's house. and i've only seen him on the movies and. as a comic and i you know my bookie. wookie i love that stuff and like so i. know a lot of things about him but i'm. not i'm a really shy person when i first. i'm like oh my god like so he makes me a.

coffee and we sit talking about our. experiences. and i've never seen someone look at me. the way he looked to me like find you a. man. who looks at you like russell brad looks. at you when he's listening to your. stories because he like. looks into your soul i was like i was. born again. and then we went to this meeting it was. an all male meeting and there was. everything in the meeting from prison. guards. to ex-soldiers to ex-cons to post-men to. bin men to everything and then me and. russell brand so i'm like this is the. weirdest room i've ever been in my life. we're in like some old like community.

like. church room or whatever and then he's. he's taking the chair in the room. so my first experience with aaa was like. the best experience ever. because it was like he was just doing. stand up it was unbelievable he was. doing stand-up and then they aimed. no it's like they they have one who. chairs them. the idea is that if they say like oh can. you talk about uh relationships now as. affected by alcohol then he'll tell the. story of. his alcoholism or or you know narcotics. thing and then. you're linking from his experience to. god oh my god i'm the same as you and. that's. how it works um i'm gonna give the whole.

script away because otherwise i'll tell. you the whole film. but i i kind of came up with this film. and i actually i haven't spoken to. russell. which is the first thing i have to do. because it was from him that this. obviously i'm in a movie right now like. and i'm one of the characters and i'm. sat here going i don't know what the. hell i'm doing here but apparently i'm. alcoholic and i've got a problem oh my. god. what's going on um the walls are closing. in. yeah exactly the wolf wall street was in. the corner over there i don't know. it was wild so it's i'm excited about it. and i think it's really funny i showed.

it one of my friends. um and she was she really liked it she. left a lot of it so. we'll see quick one as a serial. entrepreneur that's currently building. multiple projects across multiple. industries everything from the marketing. industry to blockchain. to consumer goods everything one of the. things that has been a lifesaver for me. and again a company that i reached out. to to evangelize about on this podcast. because i'm a loyal customer. and they ultimately ended up sponsoring. this podcast is fiverr.com. f-i-v-e-r-r what that site allows me to.

do. is extend my capacity across all of my. projects if i'm looking for a graphic. designer someone to. edit a video someone to do a website for. me. it allows me to extend my capacity. without hiring people and the quality of. freelancers on fiverr. has been amazing and when the the trust. and the service you get is that. phenomenal and. the services offered are that diverse. it's a no-brainer whether you have one. member of staff. you're a freelancer yourself or a. thousand members of staff five it can be. a game changer for you and i'd love you.

guys to check it out. use the link below go to fiverr.com. ceo and send me a screenshot if you end. up using the service. one of you is going to win something. very amazing what else is um. what else is going on in your life in. terms of like business and investing. and projects and stuff like that when. you think about the direction of travel. that you want to take over the next 10. years. which direction do you want to focus on. and go in you're investing tons you've. got your own businesses now. everyone's going to say the same thing. to you every time you have an interview. they're going to say when is the reunion.

i mean i've had wild my business. learning curve from the day i first got. my like first. check and i went to the manager i'm like. what do you invest your money in because. he had the biggest garden in london i. was like he's a good place to start he. had the biggest. home garden which you don't think he. does anymore steve do you. okay apparently he doesn't do more but. apparently he did when i was younger he. did. so i'm like trying to ask him like what. are you investing he's like on about. gold and whatever else then you learn. about safe haven currencies and all. these other things then i started to. branch out a little bit more a little. bit more.

um then i went on to properties which. was always the one i wanted to do. and then when i was 19 i nearly bought. a fighting agency which was fun a. fighting agency. bammer i got bought into by bama when i. was 19. so i roll up to this in like my like. burberry coat thinking i'm an absolute. bad man because i'm about to buy like. england's ufc oh okay okay fine right so. i go to this arena in manchester i'm. looking capacity he's not great. everything else but. i'm looking at all the stuff and you're. a kid so i'm a kid.

and i mean i remember being in front row. of the fight and some guy behind me. obviously doesn't like the band very. much like sit down shut up whatever else. every fighter then after got out the. ring and shook my hand. and i just kept looking behind thinking. are you still got to say. do you know the guy with a scary clown. mask you just need that other guy's nose. off like he's my friend. he's myself i was like yeah exactly and. then and then i went met everybody. afterwards and i got into his company. but. unfortunately the deal wasn't great i. put it through one of my investors that. i have and then it's like people try to. catch you out. and this was always my biggest problem i.

very fortunate to live in some lovely. places and every time someone would show. up at my door to. do something and the job would cost 500. pounds they would try and charge me 50. grand because the house was big. and i'm like learning early on like and. but don't get me wrong i've spent some. money on some stuff i shouldn't have. spent money on you and me both um. uh yeah i mean i'm going to go into. detail today. lots of money like my thing i always say. to people is like i will tell you. where i lost as much as i tell you where. i win you can't make mistakes though. right yeah hundred percent and.

like my point is i'm not i'm gonna do. better than whatever my last mistake. wasn't. sure that's the point if i trust myself. enough it won't matter in the long run. when you think about money though you. know you didn't come from money you. didn't come back. when you started i read that your dad. had tons of debts and stuff like that. and. so you your relationship with money will. be very very different. as you've gone over the last decade um. than a lot of other people because to. you it's probably something that you. thought was you built up more when. you're younger right yeah and i think as. a kid.

growing and especially if you like rap. music as well it becomes a computer. rap music made me spend a hell of a lot. of money um. i would say yeah i mean i have one of my. friends over recently and. my family my dad made decisions in our. house of what was going on and stuff and. he did them for the right reasons so i. stand by that and he doesn't need to. feel any pain in that whatsoever because. he wanted us to go on holiday. and go to america and he would bury. himself and he was so stressed he said. at one point in his life. he woke up and he couldn't remember his. own name because he was so far in debt. that he was only covering the interest.

which i can't imagine how that feels. i mean it probably feels exactly same. how i feel some days with the other side. of it which is wild and we won't get. into that. but at one point in my life i mean my. friend um professional poker player now. but he was quite a rich kid at school. because he was like playing poker. since he was like 13. so when we would. go down to. to get breakfast i couldn't afford it. and he'd buy me like 20 p's worth of. toast. and i couldn't afford it. nice which is wild so then when you get. money i didn't know my family were poor. but they were [ __ ]. you know we were not in the good place.

so how did that impact your relationship. with money when you finally got it. um were you a splurger would you. points yes on certain stuff i would but. not i'm more of a warrior than i was a. splurger. i was like because of where i lived and. where i was from i knew it could. disappear. so i was always really cautious about. protecting what i have and only spending. what i earn. that's money and happiness talk to me. about the link. a lot of people there isn't one yeah so. it's a myth. so i think money i think the way to.

think about money and i mean there's a. beautiful thing i had as a kid. and when we used to go to church the. woman got a five pound note out. and she said uh have you ever read a. five pound note and i was like no i. haven't i was like five like now. and she's like uh if you read it it says. i promise to pay the bearer of this note. five pounds some money as promises which. i thought was great but if you develop. on that. and conversations i've had with people. money is is care. and the ability to relax on certain. things life's going to kick you in that. nut sometimes and you're going to need. something to help those around you.

so it's never so much been for me about. spending money on me. and sometimes i have to remind myself to. shop because i'm terrible and i'm. one of those people who like will go on. a shop fill a basket and then just not. do the rest of it. i leave it there and i'm like oh yeah i. feel like i bought something now that's. good at least i did something fun with. what i'm. working my ass off for but i'm not like. that so it's like in terms of with. things with my family and different. things that happen like my dad's debt. for all those sorts of different reasons. i'd rather have it on hand and if. something. god forbid happens to any of us you know. my family are the last people that ever.

asked me for anything i'm the first one. to go. this is why we do what we do you know. you have a son beautiful child. um he tells you that he's gonna. apply for axe factor someday this is a. tricky one. this is a trick i think his mom's hoping. he's going to become some like yoga. person. his mom's very chill these days um he. says i'm getting instagram and i'm going. to. do x factor what'd you say to him i mean. he's got the best. advice from the parents around him for.

the long run i guess but. i don't know i i think is that one. obviously we protected his identity to. start off with. and that's not being pretentious or. anything other than the fact that. i want to give him a chance to be bare. first before he has to be oh. your mum and dad are so-and-so you know. and i made my choice to be where i was. at 14 15. so i figure he can make his. own choice then too we'll have a good. discussion about it a long discussion. because i know what effects that can. have as well um. but i would never stop him doing. something he wanted to do i'd let him.

know the risks and i'd tell him what was. going to happen. you know and and and better that than. you know. my parents didn't really ever experience. any of the things i've experienced. before i got this they had no idea what. i was signing. up for would they change it probably not. but they would change some things that. happened in between. across the way i bet 100. so he says he's going to do the show you. give him the disclaimer and the warning. um what would you rather he did if you. could as a dad you could be that. authoritarian.

you could choose would it be to walk in. your face something that he enjoys do. enjoys doing every day and i mean that's. i say that lightly because i think. everything that you do depending on what. kind of person you are becomes. annoying at a point doesn't matter what. job you do it's not how i really got to. do that again you know like my dad i. used to think my dad's job was the best. job ever like build an airplane. adult lego like i said as my dad's like. do not end up in that bloody factory. that's the last thing you're going to do. um would you want him to follow in your. footsteps though. uh i hope we did it better than i did.

really yeah. i don't know i think um sometimes you. can get lost in the connection part of. this game and i think that's always been. a difficult thing for me to connect with. people because i put so many barriers up. before you get to actually what's going. on that you. you know it's almost like hurdling them. in a way why do you think those barriers. are up. protection i think it's protecting. people from what's you know if you turn. up in the disguise every time then you. can always blame it on the disguise the. moment you're not wearing one you've got. nothing to blame it on. and what what is it that your your.

manager over there stephen would know. about you. that you probably i know in terms of. like. in a box in terms of like what you know. someone who knows you very well. would um say about you that we wouldn't. expect. just from what we see online you talk. because you talk a lot about this. wearing this mask and you know being. wearing a disguise even in your. relationships i'm really trying to. understand because. we've been we've been here maybe now for. two hours whatever and as time goes on. and on and on you get to know someone a. bit better. you know and like my barrier goes down a.

bit yours goes down a bit we get more. comfortable. and i'm like who is that person behind. there that people don't know because. i don't know i mean i think in certain. part for me having to translate it for. music. is difficult and i am opinionated to an. extent sometimes they can get me in. trouble with some [ __ ] and i hate that. that really does annoy me because it's. like. everyone's into hard to so they want to. say about something right you can. disagree on you know. yeah but i think for me i hide behind. humor a lot. i make everything i can funny and then.

that will leave it to not be as. offensive okay interesting. i really want to i really want to get an. idea of when you you look towards the. future professionally. what are the what what is the. positioning that liam payne is. is hoping for you i guess you know from. what you've described for bear. you just want to be doing things you. enjoy yeah i think so and i think that's. you know there's. been a slow road up to that point and. it's just doing things for the right. reasons i mean. we're in a beautiful age right now you. are your own press.

which is actually great for artists if. we learn to do it the right way. this whole thing i used to hate was. going on and off. talk shows going on and off and doing. this doing everything else that seemed. to be for everybody else and it was. promo in your record. but then the record bites and you get. nothing out of it and it's like. everybody else got there five minutes. but the record just didn't do what it. wanted so it's like. you know i want to experiment with the. way i promo my records so make sure that. the record is taken before i go and. halfway around the world it's going oh. look this is this great song and then no. one hears it oh. great well you know what i mean but it's.

like almost you know i think the music. industry and. listen up people i think the music. industry is in a place where people. need to throw out the old the old. you know marketing format for these. things and it's almost like when you see. companies that try and do tick tocks. don't do it like that because we can see. right through what you're doing. you've made a tick tock and haha we're. supposed to laugh but it's not funny. and it's the same for the music industry. it's like there's a new way that people. are promoting things now. you know billy eilish came from a. bedroom and did this and did it.

and it worked out really well but it. wasn't the same format that you used. back in 2010 even i mean. the way the industry's changed while. i've been in it it's been wild and i've. only been here. i've been here a decade just over a. decade now but it's insane but i just. think. record labels and and sometimes people. spend budget on stuff that they don't. need to do. you have your format you have your fan. base grow it organically properly. not not through you know. i don't know the way we're doing things.

at the moment because sometimes it's. just i don't know why the hell we're. doing this. social media your relationship with it. that's been my industry for the last. decade um good thing bad thing. what's your relationship with at the. moment i think it's good. i think it's a difficult thing to manage. i love the idea of what tik tok does. but for me i don't get sucked into my. phone. with like watching stuff constantly and. you do and you need to be on your. on your like learning stuff and and you. know it's start funny video whatever.

else. but if you're for you page it's just. like funny dogs and. yeah it's [ __ ] then you're in a what. the hell's going on you know that's what. that's what it does to me i'm like. god really so i i don't know it's um. i've seen a lot of different technology. coming in and go out of my industry from. the time. from twitter and you know i honestly. think there's a strong. case for saying that we owe a little bit. of our success to the way twitter was. because worldwide trends weren't a thing. before one direction. before one direction one x factor. whereas on that night we could trend. everywhere. and then people would go oh my god.

what's this so you know magically oh the. biggest band on xbox was the same time. twitter came out it doesn't it's perfect. storm stuff you know. um so i think it's great i think we have. a funny way. like i say with the coins that you know. the. markets just had the most weird few. months of people making hoe coin hog ho. coin plus. ho coin extra ho koi in this and there's. 90 of them and i'm hearing all of my. friends going oh did you buy. doggy doo doos 21 no no no i bought star. star porn over there you know i mean i'm.

like what the hell have we do we doing. we're talking in code. you know and it's like that but rather. than the technology that works ripple. ethereum you know things that have. real world application rather than coins. that are. hey everyone i made a coin that's about. you know tripods for cameras. this tends to happen at this i think at. the start of these like exponential. bubbles you get this and then it weeds. out the crap weeds aren't the crowd. that's. what's happened recently to me like the. markets took a big dip because they're. trying to weed out some of the. the stupid stuff and because it's an.

unregulated thing it's like. but i find that that's with the same. with social media we need to weed out. the bad stuff and focus on the good. there's a lot of debate at the moment. because of the racism that some. footballers footballers have experienced. marcus rashford did a big post the other. day. that uh you know how do we how do we. stop people putting monkey emojis or any. kinds of like abuse. on you know because what happened what i. think is happening from a. psychological standpoint is they see. liam payne they think he is. up there on that mountain that is not a. human being if i throw a rock.

and i hit i might get a little bit of. attention from him. so they they pick up a rock that's why. i'm saying to you to start about. bringing people up to your level in a. way. but it's not so much for them that they. could they can get away from from. from not saying something about that you. know and i mean they have to speak up. about it and it's difficult and. we are going through a really fast. moving area with everything in the. moment i mean you wish there was an. algorithm that would just beat that. right but they will find some way of. spelling it differently and it will just. you know verify i think they verify. everybody's idea i think that would kill. 99 percent of it yeah.

i actually thought of a thing for this. for voting. because voting for me was always a. really difficult thing we all have our. iphones we have our thumbprint that goes. on why can't we verify fire thumbprint. to get accounts and then that's on your. record. there's that great black mirror episode. where that woman's going through life. trying to get these likes and she's like. desperate. oh i got a please i need to be in this. neighborhood but i know i was a five. star this morning like oh my god. you need a horrible crap on the way. darling i'm sorry but that's what. life will eventually be policed by i.

imagine in a way. speaking of black mirror um i guess this. is a strange tangent but um i. i when i had johan hari on the podcast. last week one of the key themes here is. that. all this technology and social media has. like taken the meaning out of our lives. because like dating now happens on these. screens. people order their food by like tap tap. tap and it shows up at the door um. even now with covid um we're now working. from screens we used to have an office. or you know offices we could go to now. it's all screens. and it feels like the world is getting.

more and more so what's amazing is we we. were all so worried about technology. pushing us away from each other when. kobe hit right. yeah it was the only thing that saved us. thank god. when kobe did hit which i thought said a. lot more about technology's good sides. than they did about the bad sides i mean. it's up to you how you use your platform. in the end and what you let it do to you. like i say i enjoy tik tok but i watch a. few videos and i watch things that. people send me i don't. really have a for you page i don't. really go through it constantly. because there's you know. i mean it's difficult with kids and.

screens man i i have one and i watch him. and i'm like i really want to like. you know we go i make him go out and do. stuff and sometimes we fall out. big we have rows about really yeah yeah. it's not sometimes it's not good. um but he's learning with it you know. and it's that it's. like you say for all of us we are the. guinea pig generation for these things. we're learning you know we're the first. yeah we're the kind of civilization to. be affected by an algorithm and to be. connected. what about the people who first. experienced hay fever they figured out. their way around that you know what i. mean it's like.

for me it seems like we will figure out. the right things of it but it's weeding. out the bad sides of it and what it does. like i think if your tick tock screen is. advice. and videos about learning stuff or like. stuff that you're actually really. interested in you enjoy. not just random funny crap because. that's what. you've been framed was right you want to. find yourself watching you've been. framed all day. really because that's what you're doing. or even worse on instagram. keeping up with the kardashians oh look. she's amazing she's 10 out of 10. oh and. she's rich well her life's perfect and. look at my live site here in my box you.

should see this pot noodle. with my cellulite yeah but that's. actually the illusion because i i bet. you. of course it's an illusion but it's an. asian design to destroy your self-esteem. isn't it. it's like yeah but i also think there's. i think there's a fine line between. these. these these things and and accepting and. accepting everybody and all this stuff. is is a given. but i don't think that in the process of. that we want to lose. the thing to settle for ourselves you. know there was a big debate about me on. on loose swimming at one point uh i was. all right with it was okay i.

understood what they were saying but i. worked really hard for for what i did in. my underwear commercial you know. and it was my it did overtake my life in. certain respects yeah for sure it did. but it was actually an aim of mine it's. one of the only things i've ever aimed. for was to try and do an underwear. commercial so. i remember i went to my meeting with the. company i was working with and they were. like no no we don't want to do that with. you and i was like no trust me. just trust me and they gave they. preferred them they put their trust in. me i went and trained my ass off and i. got myself. where i wanted to be but then it was. like people worrying about people's. self-esteem looking at the picture and. whatever else i get that. but i quite enjoyed the idea of looking.

at someone and being like wow he's. that's cool man like i'm gonna go and. get that. why did you want an underwear commercial. i just thought i could do it i thought i. could. and i wanted to challenge myself in the. gym to it was you know it's hard to be. strictly about look in the gym. sure not function which that was the bit. i battled with myself a little bit but. it's like. yeah i i think you know you want to go. out and get it going and get it it's it. but i don't think we should. like i say in accepting everybody let's. not lose. the idea of striving for something as. well though because it's alright to say. yeah i'm.

i'm perfect was that an advert i saw. somewhere the other day and i thought. are we really that narcissistic do we. have to call. ourselves perfect for everyone to be. okay with each other like. and like i might get in trouble for. saying some of this stuff but it's just. like my thought is like. i want to teach the next generation to. strive for things as much as i wanted. for them to feel confident in themselves. but it's like it's almost like being a. parent right you're gonna mess them up. somehow like if we start saying we're. perfect i guarantee next we'll be like. well that's not worked out well so let's. rewrite the plan on that one. you know and it's i just think. everyone's you know give each other a.

break and just. go do what you like have you have you. figure. it's taken me some time um to try and. understand. what it is that actually makes me happy. yeah i used to once upon a time when i. was broke this is a big one yeah. i used to i was gonna end on this big. question but i used to think it was like. oh i'll get a lamborghini and then i'll. be happy. and like that's why my book is called. happy sexy millionaire because i i. thought that i wrote in the first page. of my daughter at 18. i wrote range rovers bear in mind i. didn't have a drama listen and i was. stealing chicago time pizzas at the time. um range rover sport will be my first. car i'll make a million before i'm 25.

i'll get a really hot girlfriend. and i'll work on my body image what i. meant is i'll get a six-pack i just. don't want to write that. and i thought that is the goal of life i. get those things range rover was my. first car i made a mini profit five. and i'm like where is the confetti and. if that's not it then what the [ __ ] is. life. i mean what happens when you wake up and. every day is a dream. i mean i don't mess you up i often have. looked for the moment in life where i. bang my head and i might be in some sort. of commerce. dream that i've invented for myself like. that i was that messed up as somebody i. was like i'm sure this is the simulation.

guys. like i must have made this wall because. i can't be here because of where i was. yesterday. yeah so it was you know there's those. wild things that if you let them creep. in they will. f you up bad someone says something to. be quite interesting the other day. our view of what we hunt for as humans. has changed we don't hunt for food. anymore we hunt for success. it's almost like the target went from. animals and corn and food. to friggin lamborghinis and. and that sort of stuff but that's what. we strive for now at like even point.

like you were saying earlier about. you're you're so glad you're here. because that supplements your food. sometimes you're that driven by. your drive that you forget you're gonna. eat sometimes and i was the same at work. oh my god i'm terrible. like i'm known for skipping lunch breaks. and working through the day to get home. quicker. because i can go without i'll just. muster on through but think about that. you've gone past your basic survival. instinct to you're writing against your. health for. like yeah coins yeah exactly but i might. miss this thing. good that i'm exactly the same it's. something i think that we struggle with.

in in this respect and it's like. priorities i don't know anything about. what makes me happy at this point i. really don't. really no i really i've i've found a. couple of things that i think i'm. interested in. but like the thing is once you start. making money on these scales and things. that happen. it only becomes the drive that's. interesting to you if it's gonna. fast-forward you somehow and that's not. that toxic thing that we've funny enough. we've come full circle but that's. it's the same sort of thing and i think. i think it's a big problem for me. because if it's not i'm thinking why am. i and that's why drawing for me was the.

biggest one of the time. because i was like this is what children. do why should i do this and then funny. that i drew something that was about. being a child was that. it's weird how things go full circle in. that respect. but yeah it's i often struggle to get on. with something if i don't think it's. forwarding me in life somehow. rather than just enjoying the moment or. going out and watching the sunset one of. my one of my biggest things. made me happy while i was training was. 4am getting up in the dark and this. sounds like. i am some sort of psychopath and i was. but. you're like go into the park run for a.

little bit and then stand another thing. and watch the sunrise. was the best thing and you know why it's. [ __ ] free. you can stand and watch your sunrise and. go wow thanks for another day sort of. thing i know that sounds really woosar. and like really far out spiritual but i. didn't for me it wasn't like that i just. enjoyed seeing how beautiful this moment. was and i was the only person in hyde. park running. at 4am every single day and it was some. of the best time i've had in life. they've done studies kind of linking to. what you're saying there where. if they give someone a game and i wrote. about this a little bit if they give. someone a game that they enjoy.

people will do it and they'll have high. motivation to do it. if you then pay the same person to do. the same game. their motivation will decrease i have a. big problem with this so you can love. doing something. and then the minute you the reward. starts to become extrinsic which is. external which is money. your motivation decreases and this is. why it's it's very very important even. for me with this podcast i started it. because i love doing it love meeting. people. when it starts becoming a commercial. thing it moves into being a job and then. the science says.

my motivation will decrease so it's. interesting though because you talked. about your drawing you started drawing. because it was a. and then it becomes this and it becomes. an nfc and then it becomes a business. and then you know. what to do and then you're like oh my. god i don't want to do this i'm here. again yeah exactly yeah exactly. you said you've not figured out what. makes you happy definitely not yet now. that's me in a few years and i i think. i mean so what have what's my conclusive. point been for what makes me happy. professionally it's super clear for me. now having a and these are keywords so.

a worthwhile um challenge. that i'm doing with people that i love. and i've i i've come i've. come up with that based on a ton of. things some of the things you've said. fit perfectly into it. when you look at tyson fury when he's. not in the gym depressed when you look. at goal um olympians. whether they win or lose at the olympics. they get depression because they've. reached the mountaintop and there's. nothing else to strive for. and so when i was going through my notes. i was thinking the day that someone. offered me 50 odd million to buy my. business. was one of the worst days of my life and.

gary vaynerchuk i know you're doing some. stuff with him. he says the same thing when i spoke to. him on the podcast he was like the day. when i buy the new york jets. will be the worst day of my life he's. like i hope it happens. on my deathbed because not having. something to strive for. and this has been a big struggle of mine. for men you lose orientation. yeah right when you're training for the. olympics we're going this way this is. our purpose in life. when the olympics is over you ain't got. no [ __ ] direction you're like well i. mean look at this. and talking about direction my that. whole thing for me and that mountain for.

me was 1d. and music after that like i said you're. never going to keep up with what we did. like we sold so many records and we did. some we broke so many records we did so. many things. you know i mean we were in stadiums. every day 94 000 people every day like i. was in like i used to break into wembley. stadium. on the night time because it was fun and. i was smashed and i thought these people. aren't going to recognize me. i've broken into every major stadium in. america honestly and people used to. chase us on these like. police like little squad bikes being. like hey sir you're not supposed to be. in here and we'd run because it's like a. game attack.

i swear to god it was this one time we. we opened up a door and found a zamboni. you know the thing that squashes the. eyes and we accidentally emptied the. like two tonne of water on the floor i. don't know i might have to pay for that. night. um yeah so once you reach that height. i suppose one of the reasons i struggled. the most out of it is because you're. never really going to reach that height. again and then it's almost. like a limbo and also not knowing. whether or not we're going to come back. are we going to come back everyone's. asking i don't know and it feels like. pressure to come back. it's almost like your your parents going. when's baby two are coming you know what.

i mean. now we gotta have another one so that's. that's wild to me and. and and having to deal with that at a. young age i was i was always going to. mess it up somewhere. is what i would say about myself because. that's like he says the worst day ever. you know the day the band ended i was. like thank lord for that and i know a. lot of people are gonna be mad at me for. saying that but i needed to stop. or it would kill me um and i was like. thank the lord and then after that. trying to like. funnel your way back into society be. like hey guys i'm still here. turning up at tesco's in a lamborghini.

like an idiot. you know i'm like what the [ __ ] am i. doing and. and for a lot of that yeah i agree with. a lot of that. that statement it's you need to have. something to strive for and i feel like. i'm finding that a little bit more now. and learning to relax yeah you've talked. a lot about this. learning to relax learning to just be. you know a lot of people. be part of the moment man be in the. moment and like i'm like this is. [ __ ] but. it's true if you can just sit you know. and enjoy something for what it is for. five minutes.

have you tried meditation my ex. uh cheryl is very big on meditation. um she sent me one the other day and i. got told off for not doing it again. meditation gets me in trouble these days. um no i need to i i. did a couple of things in meditation. with my old personal trainer that were. quite good. but i just my mind's so [ __ ] busy. i can't shut it up like the moment i'm. trying to not think about so i'm like oh. yeah but what about if we just did this. next week and. i know you'll be exactly the same that's. what i'm saying i'm like trying so.

[ __ ] hard with this meditation. let's do it together every morning and. i'm like steve close the tabs. and every morning i'm sat there and i. love that on the [ __ ] floor of my. shower because it's like it's like it. looks like it's. from thailand and the water's pouring. and i'm like just don't think about. anything and then i'm like. i'm planning all my schedule in my head. i'm like liam's coming for the podcast. man. what should i speak to him about and. then you know john will be doing the two. senses thing where you like. think of like what you can hear what you. can smell i've tried all of them i've. tried this one with beads where you like. hold the beads and you just. like the simulation.

not bad he's good in the shower as well. if you like close your eyes then pick. two senses. which you can choose like feel oh. interesting so your mind can only. do two senses at once so once you shut. some of them off that's technically. meditation because you're in the moment. but i still don't feel like i've had. that you know i'm not a monk at this. point i wish i was i think it's. important though. i do i get it i do understand it but i. also think. imagine if you could get your mind just. to be in the present moment fully. and just be if i could have done that at. school i hadn't been.

i've been top of the class but my mind's. going oh yeah what are we going to do. lunch time i'm not going to give up so. i'm going to keep trying every morning. naked on. my bathroom floor that's what i want to. keep doing. worthwhile challenge with people you. love. so worthwhile you define it yourself. right challenge means it can't be easy. because then your. motivation won't be high and then. surrounded by people you love. for me that is where i've figured out my. happiness lives. and so upon leaving my company that i'd.

founded for ten years now i'm like. learning to dj doing a big theatrical. play at the albert hall which we've. directed and produced i'm just trying. i'm throwing my hand at everything. biotech. no i'm the same you know and that's what. i was thinking with you. from what you were saying like you're. never gonna top that mountain so where's. what is the mountain i mean we've done. so many. random you know the trip to namibia. without was one of the things and we. jumped we did a. world first of the canyon swing in. namibia which was. really crazy and wild and i thought i. might die on national television but. that is okay.

um what else did we do are doing this. nft things really interesting. um doing the online shows because we. were one of the first people to really. like pioneer with the company. you know my team were massive massive. behind that um but it was almost like. making a tv show every week with new. songs and songs i hadn't sang since. whatever songs i'd never heard before. and i just would turn up and do it we. did really really well and i loved that. um i don't know i've had i think i've. had many many many jobs i've got like a. laundry list. to the point where when the sensors came.

i didn't know what the hell to write i. didn't want to write performer because i. think it just sounds like such a badge. off job of like. it doesn't it doesn't encapsulate. anything that i actually. do i mean we design clothes for hugo. underwear modeling. loads of stuff so um do you think maybe. you just need a really big. [ __ ] scary terrifying goal that you. really care about well i mean. someone had asked me to go and do. everest at one point and i was like. i don't know i might die on that one but. does that not make you a little bit like. right now we've got something to aim for. get in the gym yeah i mean.

in a way i'm already there's something. i'm cooking up in my brain i'm not gonna. i'm not going to talk about here okay. doesn't come off but i'm cooking. something up at the moment it's very dim. orientated i'm definitely going to give. it a big. big go some things piss me off um. interesting um. and i thought i just had to do it um the. one thing i say what the one thing i'll. say about success and. about these things if i'm honest about. happiness i think it's learning to have. respect for yourself. i mean there's a lot of things people. say about don't base yourself on others. and never look at other people in that. way which i actually think you need to. throw out the window.

because there's when i was like it's. almost weird i learned it from my. character design when i was designing. coats i didn't start from nowhere and. how i learned to design characters was. like. how do you make a dragon have you never. seen one i don't know why dragon anyone. so they mix it with a with uh exactly. this is funny so they mix it with a lion. mixed with a snake mixed with a. crocodile mixed with a dinosaur. because they're the ones that we have so. they base them off of stuff so i like. look at people who are my heroes and i. think what is it that i love about them. that i don't think i. possess yet and then that's how you know.

you can respect yourself and i think. that's the most important thing for me. is if i get up in the morning i respect. myself i go to bed. on night time i respect myself i'm happy. but. certain things are about my life and. even this moment i want to change but. it's like christian bale for example i. love his acting. girl like go-to and i mean some things. he's done his career have been really. unhealthy when he did the machinists and. stuff like that but. i like that drive and i like the fact. that he like buries himself into a role. and stuff and i've never learned that. quite yet so that might be one of the. things i want to. steal exactly if it's almost yeah it's.

like taking people's stuff but. you're molding it into your own. character we were talking today about. avatars which is obviously a huge. market at the moment people spend so. much time on their avatars. on their games when they've started. something but in life you are your. avatar. you do whatever you want and it's like. if you're making your avatar and you've. got to go and do 10 free kicks to earn. the next ronaldo but you're like oh i'll. get in there and do them. the moment someone asks you to do. something in life to earn something. you're like oh i don't want to do it. but it's like that's why i was trying to. think how we explain that to kids but. that's the most basic. analogy i can come up with you know.

children's book children's book i had an. idea for children's book actually but we. didn't finish it. that's a lot of the real things about. look at why he's smiling at me. well we've talked about so much today um. so much so much inspiration and. you know a lot of the questions i asked. are based on so. it's amazing amazing conversation and um. i really really respect and appreciate. your willingness to be open and honest. about all these things because you're. helping so many people you don't even. realize it. i i do hope so you know and um i think.

you're just a. tremendously inspirational guy you're. you know an incredible entrepreneur. which i don't think people are fully. um appreciated yet because you're very. you're not you've not sort of disclosed. all of the investments and businesses. you're involved in but i think that's. certainly coming i think we might have a. bit of a. a european action culture on our hands. if i say so myself. um but yeah thank you mate honestly you. know you've been through what is. a unique just tremendously unique. experience over the last decade nobody. can understand it other than probably. the boys you did it with.

and uh from that you know there's ups. there's downs but this is life right and. um you sharing it has brought tremendous. value for me so i know it will. definitely bring. huge value for our audience so i just. want to say thank you no i think mate. thank honest this has been one of the. best chats i've ever done. thank you i'm excited to see what you. bring to the table on dragon's den i. can't wait to watch it. i'm buzzing i'm buzzing maybe you can. come in with uh some of your ideas. though i know i'll come and pitch. something. can you imagine you should be a dragon. ball style i was actually maybe not. coming in disguise. we'll do one week where i'll like deck. the [ __ ] out of here i'll just come on.

and be like right i've got this idea for. swimming pools on roofs would you ever. be a dragon. um oh i think i'd be a terrible dragon. i don't know i feel bad for people and i. wanna like oh no just like i'll buy it. i'll take it thank you brother. appreciate you i appreciate thank you. [Music]. [Music].

[Music]. you.