Lewis Capaldi: The Untold Story Of Becoming A Global Superstar At 22 | E178

no one has ever asked me the questions. that you've asked me today. [Music]. releasing new music first time in like. three years this time i'm [ __ ]. myself. i remember that video of you. you found out your net worth oh yeah. that's ten [ __ ] million quid sitting. about somewhere where the [ __ ] is it no. label would ever tell you that is the. strategy to become successful you can.

philly just put a picture of you wear. towel wraps on your head and these. stupid glasses and we are top off on a. big massive poster on the tube it's less. about being like a polished [ __ ] pop. star whatever people see through that. [ __ ]. you are living an extraordinarily. unhuman life what is the reality i have. really bad anxiety i've never reached a. tipping point until after getting famous. i [ __ ] hate recording albums despise. doing music videos i only do all that. stuff because playing live is this.

[ __ ] unparalleled thing that you. can't compare to anything else so like. when that was making me feel shy if it's. like [ __ ] i don't know if i can do any. of this [ __ ] anymore. my dad gave me i left home from the. airport one night and i was twitching. like [ __ ] to the point where he started. crying in the car i couldn't concentrate. on work i was doing because i was so. convinced that i was gonna die. what is the question that no one asks. you that would reveal the most untapped. answer. i think.

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yourself. [Music]. lewis hello. when you look back and i was reading. about your childhood i found it really. fascinating when you look back at those. um early. early early dots that you i think. sometimes in hindsight we can connect. and go ah. that was the reason i became the person. i am today well that was a really. significant early moment what were those. first early dots that you connect and go.

that's why. i ended up where i am. today um i think for me it's probably. the first one i can remember is like. being i remember just being on holiday. in france we used to go on these mad. like. caravan holidays in france me my mom my. dad and my. two older brothers my older sister and. uh there was like i don't know for some. reason i had become obsessed with queen. i must have been like four years old um.

but like we got like a cd and the like. one of you remember those free cd. newspapers like oh yeah well you would. pull out stuff so we got that. and it had like we were rocky by queen. on it. and i had. we are the champions as well and i. remember like just i became obsessed. with and i was like listening all the. way through don't they um. we were going so we drove from scotland. to france so it was like i just remember. listening to that constantly on repeat. and then being i don't know if i'd ever. showed an interest in. singing prior to this or being a singer.

but. i remember. we were at like one of those like cat. like a band was playing it was like a. karaoke thing like one of the family. entertainment nights or whatever and. then for some reason i just like asked. if i could go up and sing and we were. rocky by queen um. and it was glad and i went up and i did. it and there's a picture of me doing it. like i'm tiny and i've got this maker. foreign. so i did it and then i think. i've got a buzz for whatever and for. whatever reason i asked if i could go. back up and do another song and i did.

another song and it was like for me. that's the first kind of memory of like. this like singing and getting a buzz for. like. well i'm up here and i'm doing this. thing in front of people it's like again. i i have no other memory of like. singing prior to that but this was like. just the first time i'd ever like got up. in front of people and sang and been. like oh this is like a. oh he bit of a buzz like even at four i. mean which is. mad to think now but like um yeah i. don't know what.

sort of possessed me to get up and do it. but it was so that must have been. [ __ ] i don't know like i would have. been. like 2 000 or something maybe that. happened um. but yeah i still don't i still can't. like. put a finger on why i did it or what. what the reason was for getting up on it. but um you're four years old four years. old yeah yeah it was it was a strange. one and it was like a like a party or. something it was like uh like you call. these [ __ ] it's kind of like these. kind of package holidays that you go on. my family they have like kids clubs and.

they have like entertainment nights so. it's like everyone kind of congregates. in this. theater kind of but in the middle and. it's like. then they have a on and they have like. i don't know [ __ ] puppet show or. something like i don't know i can't. really remember i haven't i haven't been. back since. i don't often hang around. they didn't put me back but um. but yeah so then it was like um yeah it. was just that it was that was the first. time we did it and it was. yeah i can't.

i can't i can't put my finger on why. what were you like at that age at that. sort of under 10 age in terms of. confidence and because to say you know i. want to go up on stage and sing in a. bunch a group of friends strangers seems. like quite an. abnormal thing for a child to volunteer. to do toy um i think prior to being like. 10. and prior to like. i don't know yeah probably go to high. school or whatever on that maybe not. even like that but like. when i was younger i was definitely. quite. like outgoing i'd say like i was quite.

i remember i watched them. when i was like five i watched austin. powell's like i was like religiously. watching austin powers i don't know why. my parents allowed me to do that but. like i would like go to family parties. and be asked to recite like i'm a fat. bastard at austin post like the big fat. guy that he pleased please. i'd be asked to like recite. parts of his thing and i would do it in. front of everybody you know the rest of. it was but it was never like again it. was never singing it was just like. acting the goat and like take the piss.

and. yeah i would get up and do recite all. these fat bastard bits and [ __ ]. um so yeah i was definitely like more i. was definitely like a. an outgoing kid i think. um i definitely like to be. i was probably allowed and i kind of. like to be like. i guess i i i kind of like people for. feedback yeah yeah i like feedback i. like people watching me do things i like. seeing people enjoying something that i. was doing do you know why um i don't.

know. it's. it's a strange one because i i never i. guess i never put much thought into when. i was five or whatever but i don't know. if it's like. i don't know if maybe like making a like. my parents laugh or something made me. feel like oh that's a buzzer whatever or. like. i don't know yeah i've sat here with. quite a lot of comedians you know jimmy. carr. russell kane russell howard and and. that's been one of the really. fascinating things for me is like trying. to find out why at a young age.

they got a real buzz from. performing and making people laugh and. actually i think it was jimmy carr that. said something to me he said. instead of you know because there's this. kind of stereotype that you do that. because you're depressed and you're. trying to i don't know but jimmy carr. said to me when when you see that. behavior in a comedian don't ask them if. they're depressed ask them which one of. their parents were they trying to cheer. up all right well interesting yeah. that's as interesting i don't know my. parents. when when i was i went to a therapist a.

couple years ago who had said my. my mum's mum died when i was three. of like cancer. not like cancer that was cancer. and then a year after her aunt. like committed suicide um who was. and sorry my mum's sister my aunt. committed suicide so my mom lost her mom. and her sister in like. the set like within a year of each other.

so i don't know if maybe that's like. i'm quite like a hypochondriac and i'm. i'm kind of like. i always think i'm out of dying and when. i was younger my mom used to talk man i. used to always be like have you locked. the doors like even when i was like four. or five or whatever and a therapist told. me that was kind of like that might be. because of like being exposed to the. fact that people. are gone like people. disappear people aren't like i was aware. of what death was at a young age so i. don't know if maybe that's like. having seen. like that sort of like that sort of like.

profound sadness. and my mum when she's like. lost her mom and lost her sister i don't. remember that's was it profound sadness. that you saw oh for sure like i mean. it's obviously i mean i can't imagine. losing. my mom at this i mean i'm 25 my mum. would have been 34 when she lost her mom. um so. yeah for sure like i still i have like. like vivid memories like. going into my mum's room she was crying. a bit i think this might have been my. man died but her crying in bed.

and talking about like. and then being like having to tell me. all like. you know i passed away or whatever or. like i just didn't i wasn't feeling. aware of what was going on but i just. saw her so. like heartbroken and so. yeah so distraught that this happened so. i don't know maybe that's that's an. interesting thought of like i don't know. if maybe that's fed into it and like. me doing anything i could to like either. cheer them up or distract them whatever. i don't know but um. but yeah it's an interest in him. how old were you when that happened. i was three with my granddad and.

three and three. quarters. when my aunt er come out suicide. so i was i was young for sure. it's it's really i don't think people. realize how much kids can feel the pain. of their parents right. i had an incident with my um. sister-in-law and her her and my niece. where my. probably the instance that taught me. this lesson when my sister-in-law was. crying um was upset about something and. i just looked down at my knees and my.

niece is glued up and my niece explodes. in tears as well yeah that kind of. relationship we have like of intuitively. knowing if our parents are feeling. something. of course i think that yeah i think as. the people kids do i mean it's a thing. now where people are kind of talking. about more kids to see a lot more i. actually watched that in joel wick's. documentary a few weeks ago when he was. talking about his parents addictions and. things and he says like yeah kids see. so much more and are aware of so much. more than we actually know i i totally. agree because even now if i'm at a. funeral it could be for someone i have. never met in my life.

but my mum knew them if i turned around. and my mum's crying right yeah like it's. a mess so it's like something that's. like obviously. learnt like you see your mum crying it's. listen. it's one of the worst things you can. possibly see your mom or your dad or any. of your brother's sister's. unpaid or crying or like um really going. through something and i think. yeah it's something that just does even. though it. sticks with you and fears i read the. study about these monkeys these recess. monkeys and it showed that if the mother. recess monkey had a phobia of spiders.

then all of the babies would be scared. whenever they saw a spider and that kind. of show you you're talking about. hypochondria there you're talking about. like um using your parents as a steer as. to what is dangerous what is sad you. know all those things do you think that. you're you you said you had like a. hypochondriac yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah do you think that came from. your mother's caution i think it's not. necessarily my mom's. she's not like uh she is like the least.

like if i phone and i say mom i've got a. headache i'm dizzy i think i've got like. a tumor or something she'll be like. shut the [ __ ] up you're fine like listen. take some paracetamol go to sleep you'll. be grand i'll see you later my dad. is a very. i the older i get the more i understand. that my dad i get all my anxieties and. things from my dad my dad's like a. worrier for sure and he. he's a catastrophizer as well like his. mind goes to like.

yeah the other day he went um to chat he. went to my brother's house chat from the. door my brother never answered my. brother was in the shower. and uh my dad had convinced himself. there was a gas leak in the house and my. brother like an immediate jump like no. no like like stepping ladder to that it. was chat the door no answer chat with. her again right gas leak if something's. wrong banging the door my brother comes. out and i tell and he's like what the. [ __ ] are you doing this is like mental. and my dad's but that's like i mean it.

comes from like an amazing place but. it's something that he just. has in his mind and i think he he's a. hypochondriac as well he kind of. has. yeah i i think i've learned that from. him in the sense that he's he's a he's a. warrior in that sense but i do think. that. because i never thought about the. my aunt and. grandmother passing away is like a. a big thing in my childhood i just which. is which now when i say that out loud. it sounds mental because when i'm like.

oh it wasn't a big thing however but. like. so i think it's probably that like that. sort of like. awareness of death and awareness that. you're not around forever and your. parents like because then immediately. i'm like oh my mom's passing away like. my mum will probably like i mean that's. immediately in your head as a kid so um. i i can't remember why i got into asking. with her about like locking the door. when i was. a kid and she was have you looked i. don't understand and i still don't. remember how that became a thing.

but um but yeah no so i think. i definitely get a lot of my. hypochondria and my worry and my anxiety. from my father. and my my mother's quite quite calm cool. and collected if i'm. the older i get the more i'm realizing. that's what i mean. but yeah. i sat here with um a guy called jack. jack mate he's called and he talked. about health anxiety in ocd and he. really opened up about it and i you know. people use these terms flippantly they. said i've got ocd i've got i'm sorry i'm. hyper conjunct and they use them so.

flippantly to describe like the tiniest. little. something's not neat i've got ocd or uh. you know you you might. find a lump and go you know jokingly say. it's this and yeah then someone will. flip and they sell you're a. hypochondriac but the reality. of. being a hyper contract or ocd is as jack. taught me it's very very different. mm-hmm talk about saying what is the. reality so i think so that i i've got i. have really bad anxiety. like anyway but which i never really. had never reached a tipping point until.

after. like. getting famous i never had a panic. attack until after i was famous or after. i was a musician or after this was like. after they got to like a height. um but the hypochondria i get i guess. like looking back now i'm like oh i was. like such an anxious kid but then. because now i understand that a lot more. and i've got a therapy and i speak about. it with people and i'm trying to learn a. bit more about it i kind of look back at. things at that time. and realized that that that the behavior.

was was the result of. anxiety but that hypochondria thing was. probably where it was started and it was. like. i would be like. i'd be walking around school like moping. and [ __ ] like. black sort of like blink of a blanket. for you and everything and i was just. like couldn't concentrate on work i was. doing because i was so convinced that i. was gonna die and that i had this. [ __ ] horrible disease and that. um. that yeah that that i was good that i. was going to be over and i was going to. have to go to hospital. i was going to pass out or have a.

seizure i've never done none of that has. ever happened to me i've nev i've. touched wood never been in hospital for. anything serious i've never broken a. bone i've never. had any major i've never had a surgery. i've never had any major illnesses or. anything like that um. at school when i was in primary school i. never missed a day off i never had a day. off i was always. never had i was never ill. um. secondary school i was off once like so. it wasn't like it wasn't like um i had.

calls for any of this it was just like. in my head just thinking and i think. maybe that's a thing as well of like i. don't know if that maybe never actually. being ill. i didn't know what being really hell. felt like so my mind would maybe maybe. conjure something up in that respect. but um but yeah no at the school it just. became sometimes it could become like. just. really like. again at the time i didn't understand it. i and and the symptoms of anxiety like. being dizzy and [ __ ] i used to kind.

of always go like. i just think big deep breaths. um all the time and and i used to make. this noise which i still make when i go. like. um. and it's like. i found so basically and now looking. back i realize that's all anxiety and. actually got diagnosed with tourette's. like. two months ago or something like that. really yeah yeah which was which was to. me made. when they said i was like oh that kind. of makes [ __ ] sense because i always. thought tourette's like [ __ ].

on that i didn't realize it could just. be like. text bodily thingies but um so i kind of. yeah as i say like looking back and i. realized it was all anxiety but. if i thought i had a brain tumor and i. was like. um. and i was like worrying about it so much. and getting access that i was dizzy that. would then feed back into the. oh i've got a branch in because i'm busy. all the time why else would that be does. it i mean i even got so bad a couple of. years ago. um. that i paid i went and paid for an mri. scan cancelled i've met play austin set.

a limits festival um in austin and i. just had to cancel the trip because that. my anxiety about i think there's someone. serious around me i got so bad that i. was i can't get on a plane and go to. austin and be away from home i need to. go get an mri scan or i need to [ __ ]. really see what it's going about so i. went and got it and obviously there was. nothing in my head. that was fine and no one can talk you. out of those when you're in that moment. call your mom you call your friends you. tell people no one can talk you out of. it i can do it now because i've like. done therapies and i've kind of been.

able to. sort of. understand my own anxiety and stuff a. bit more like. that has made it easier for me to kind. of talk myself out of. these kind of. situation at least kind of holes that i. can dig myself in my head. my mum's also very good at my dad's. absolutely useless because. because he's [ __ ] like he's anxious. himself. he's just like [ __ ] all right he's. he's mental but um. so my mom yeah she's she's really good.

at like if i'm having if i'm having a. panic attack. my mom has to like there's nobody else. that can like. taught me a little bit for sure. definitely. like that by the way my mom has had to. sleep. in my bed. as as recently as like a month ago. because of how bad. my anxiety got at one point but i think. that was that was alcohol related that. had been on a bit of a bend a couple. days before but like it gets to a point. where i'm like. i can't. i just can't [ __ ].

i can't envision like i can't. like. i can't. imagine. at not being something like. life-threatening or like. super serious because of how [ __ ]. like sometimes like things don't feel. real. someone who'll say something to me and i. won't understand what they're saying. like it's [ __ ] it gets like proper. proper intent um. but yeah that's kind of the hypochondria. as i've got older is as lesson it's only.

when i start to have a panic attack or. like i start to get really anxious. that i'll go right that's i think so i'm. dizzy. that's probably anxiety you're fine i. know there's a voice in the back of my. head that goes but what if it isn't. worth something wrong with me what if. you're about to pass out. and then in some situations i just i get. my head tells me like oh you're about to. have a panic attack you're going to have. like. and then that is enough like that's. enough hypochondria like yeah it's mad. um.

so as it's still something like ongoing. like that that i deal with but um. it's definitely getting better i've i've. started taking like. my medication for it i've seen a. therapist more regularly. um. again the tourettes thing was like a. good. sort of. a look like and it was kind of nice to. hear because i started doing this but i. twist my shoulder it's actually okay. today but um. that became. so like bad that i was like this has to.

be [ __ ]. something serious like more neuron. disease juggling all that [ __ ] and like. again just the wheels starting turning. and all rested so. that finding out the tourist thing was. fact was like a nice sort of like oh. that's okay that's cool because i don't. mind like i don't i never really think. that like i have like a mental illness. of any sort i just think sometimes i get. really anxious and it's fine you know. what i mean it's like it's just one of. those things but i don't see it as like. this big thing i'm quite like.

i'll talk to anybody about it if i'm. having a panic attack room i'll be like. i'm having a panic attack by the way so. just. do with that information what you will. and you said that on stage before yeah. i've done it on stage i had the panic. attacks on stage we. actually we played. and we did an arena tour in march 2020. like right up and like just before. covert kicked off. and i don't know it was like. obviously it was like basically it was. kind of the combination of this album. campaign that we had done for the last.

record and. things were great and it was like we. played australia and done some amazing. shows in australia in january. europe in february. and then march was. come back like kind of nice sort of. [ __ ] victory lap. look what we've done this is great. arenas can't believe we're doing this in. first album amazing it was the worst two. weeks of my life that was [ __ ] [ __ ] i. hated every minute of it like if you. look at videos of me on stage i'm doing. this twitch. that was so bad that it was just.

like i was i couldn't speak between. songs i couldn't i could i had to stop. songs and start over again. i saw lots of tweets. one being like. particular that was like all loose is on. with fully on cocaine like [ __ ]. there's like twitching [ __ ] and all. that [ __ ] and then obviously i'm like oh. no people think i'm cookie and that feel. feeds out of my. thing i do i mean i don't and it was. [ __ ] it was but i was [ __ ]. horrible and i think i played the first. two shows were in glasgow they were like. the first two arena kicks from glasgow i. remember walking out and.

this is like a kind of big colosseum. thing in the hydro in glasgow. and it's like i'm walking out into the. middle of the. arena empty arena with mum and dad my. sister and looking around the me like oh. [ __ ] this is like. it was just i think things had got to a. point. where they were bigger than. like i was seeing how big it had gone. like during the first time because. the way it worked was. my songs had gotten.

we were kind of always playing catch up. with ourselves in terms of. the size of venues we were doing so like. when we could have done 2 000 cap rooms. we were doing a thousand cat rooms and. then. like so on and so forth so it became. like. it was kind of nice because i was like. oh this is great like. songs flying. like that next song's done really well. as well. like we're playing these knife rooms. that the crowds are meant oh this is. class and i think yeah the the arena was. like the arena shows were like oh [ __ ].

this is. real this is huge there's a difference. between 2 000 because that's another. thing i've got about an issue with. especially in the uk it's really hard to. go from 2 000 capacity rooms to 16 000. capacity rooms it's like there's very. rarely in between when i probably can do. like 10 you can do it like five and. places but it was just like [ __ ] this. is like a big jump. and in that thing of like disappointing. people really came in here and then just. like. i don't mind support become being a. support act i always love because if i'm.

shy no one gives a [ __ ] because it's. like. who cares who's that who is this guy. later i mean we did supported sam smith. on tour. and like they were really gracious and. have this on and uh but everyone's there. to see sam no one's there to see. me like i mean so if i go out and have a. shake gig it's like. grant i'm [ __ ] off this is great i. mean so uh. but when it's like people have bought a. ticket to see you it's not a festival. where there's loads of other people on. yeah literally you it just became quite. it was quite intense how old were you. then when you walked out with your.

family into that gig and you looked up. at the stadium 23 23 23 years old um. it was my yeah it was intense i think. it's because as well like. i just maybe i think in my head i was. like oh you you can't as i've got i've. got really bad like and everybody i. speak to who's done well this like. imposter syndrome thing where it's like. i don't deserve to be doing this what. the [ __ ] it like why am i. [ __ ] up here doing this i feel like a. [ __ ] absolute.

like. i don't know just like a [ __ ] that i. shouldn't i shouldn't be in this. position and i've always had it and it's. like we do the self-deprecating pattern. like on [ __ ] interviews and stuff. which i do love is like take the past. but like. the the important stuff i had never been. more. insecure and unsure of myself than after. i did really well that's so interesting. yeah because i've heard that before yeah. yeah like like even now like. going back to writing new music after. we've done these [ __ ] shows it's like.

i thought i was gonna go in and be like. right i've had a couple of hits. relax guys here we go this is gonna be. lovely easy-peasy i was [ __ ]. second-guessing myself all the time. i was like. i would start writing a song and then. immediately no that's [ __ ] like just. constantly like. self-sort of like. like just [ __ ] just ah that's [ __ ]. that [ __ ] that [ __ ] like. looking at what we did before. obviously covered happened you have all.

this time to kind of like. look back on everything you go oh for. [ __ ] sake that was kind of got a away. from us about there. the song one of the songs went number. one in america and i was like there's no. way i can do that again does that just. seems like such a. such a [ __ ]. um. such a [ __ ] claim and something that. i'm just not capable of i don't it feels. like someone else did it. so i mean. and now i'm like oh no i'm comparing. yourself to that person yeah i'm like.

lumped it's like we were saying before. like that thing of like even now coming. out to do the interviews and stuff it's. like [ __ ] i don't know if i can do any. of this [ __ ] anymore because it's been. it's been [ __ ] easy it's been like. three years. do you know who's sat here before you. was was bear grylls and bear grylls said. to me he said the more successful i've. i've become the lower my confidence has. become because bear grylls now is he's. when you like if your mate eats. something crazy or doesn't mean crazy. you go who do you think you're a bear. girl he's actually become synonymous. with the word like so his identity is.

this like extreme. you know whatever and he's now looking. up at his own identity going. how the hell am i ever going to be bear. grylls. and it was crazy to hear him say like. his confidence is at like pretty much an. all-time low because of his success yeah. because he's competing with his own. accomplishments which is. not an easy place to be yeah and i have. to agree with that i feel like as well. it's such a weird position to be in. because you walk into a room. like and as people. like.

this sounds wanky as [ __ ] but like. i have to i have i have to assume in. some regard that people around my age. have at least heard about me in passing. and i always just assume. when i go into room i just assume people. in that room don't like me. like that's just my thank you that's my. like default position of like i don't. know why i don't know why it is but i. just like. it's just something i always have and i. always like. if i go to a pub. and like i'll walk in a pub like i'm. like oh [ __ ] people probably like.

walking up to the bar or like if someone. comes up and says hello and i'm speaking. to them and i think it puts you with. them. i think oh everyone else in this book. i'm a wanker i don't know it's like i. don't know if it's like. when did that start um maybe like. end towards the end of 2019 probably. yeah um i don't get wrong i [ __ ]. being famous is fun it's great like you. know what i mean why do you think. they're not gonna like you uh i don't. know it's just like i don't know what i. i just assume that they've probably seen. something online like a video i've done.

or an interview i've done or they've. heard the songs and they think oh it's. music's [ __ ] oh they've seen interview. and they think i [ __ ] hate that card. can't stand them um yeah i don't know i. just always assume that people have got. this. um. i don't know this view of me. that they maybe don't like i don't know. again i couldn't really put my finger on. why like i don't i don't i don't hate. myself like i think i'm all right thank. job i mean but i think um. it's just that i don't know i i don't. know if maybe that thing of like.

being like in pub in the public eye like. you're so [ __ ] exposed. to like. all this [ __ ] and it's like. yeah it's just a bit it's a bit of a. i don't know it's a bit of a it's a bit. of a you walk into a room and you feel. like. oh [ __ ] this is do you feel like it cuz. because i'm on because i've started. doing dragon's den now so the podcast. was like you know big people know before. but there's this whole new demographic. yeah now this bbc one demographic where. if i'm in the airport i'm if someone. just glances at me i assume oh they're.

you're going to come over and say. something away so you kind of live with. this constant paranoia yeah you're kind. of like oh yeah anyway i just keep my. headphones on and i don't i look at the. [ __ ] floor. i'm like do you two hold up. and it's like that like that sort of. like you feel like. squeeze that and i don't know i love. when people come up and. i i love taking pictures people i love. speaking to people and hearing people's. stories about how they love the music or. like even i get a lot of people go um oh. i think your music shape but i hate the. funny you know that stuff and i'll.

accept that as well that's fine cool um. but. is it cool yeah i think it's fine you. can't. my music's not going to be for everybody. i'm really aware of that my personality. is definitely not going to be from doing. fully with that i think. the fact that people come up i like the. fact that people. feel that they can say that to me and i. won't take offense you've kind of. invited that there haven't you yeah yeah. because and i'll because that's how i am. like i'm you you would really really. have to say something. horrible about i don't know what you. could say to me that i would take. offense i'm very like.

i don't know if it's mark bringing in. scotland or just being scottish or. whatever like that. like. i don't. take offense to things really. like i've seen some [ __ ] pretty. ridiculous things written about me. online and on twitter all the rest of it. that really does not like. you say you're very self-deprecating. yeah of course why. uh i just think it's funny i think i. think but again i think that's a very. scottish thing and that's a very.

like. we kind of all. well when i grew up everyone just took. the piss at each other it's quite i. don't know it's quite a bad thing and. not a bad thing it's gone. you never feel you never want to get. ideas above your station like you never. even when i was starting out music i. just always i never thought we'd get to. this point or the things we get that's. big because i just always thought oh. that would just that just doesn't. think it might be a bad thing as well. because it maybe stops a lot of people. from going to achieve things or trying. to reach for stuff like i on i've said.

before like if i hadn't met. my manager on my label and stuff i would. still be in pubs just playing tunes at. the weekend and all that it's not like. or i'd be playing weddings and stuff. like because i would just not assume. that this was on the cards um. but i think yes i i think there's. something nice and. don't get me wrong around my friends i'm. slagging them off like nothing else and. they're doing the same to me and it's. like. you kind of figure out like what your. flaws are. by the way your friends the stuff your. friends pick out. and i don't know like on tour we say.

some [ __ ] horrific stuff to each. other to pursue each other and. that's all fine because we love each. other it's grand but like i think in. general if if i can. it feels better to make people laugh. like at me than other people like i. would rather make someone laugh at. me than. grab something else and take the piss. out of them before. is there a harm. because i i've heard some of the things. you said you know you said i mean i know.

they're jokes but you said things like. people women find me equally repulsive. in australia and whenever there's you. take a shot at yourself and i i do want. it because if my one of my good friends. was always self-deprecating i would tell. them to stop yeah. because i would be worried that that. those words might knock their own. confidence or something it's like you. don't talk like be nice to yourself like. that's the thing i'd like i think. you're talking like. if you had like a child would you want. someone to say the things to your child. that you say about yourself.

i get that. completely and i understand that but i. don't like self-deprecate. constantly in my private life sure i. mean i don't like yeah um. it's something that. has become kind of synonymous with me. doing. interviews and all the rest of it and i. do do it. a lot in my private life but not like. it's not like a constant every sentence. on interviews and things like that do. you think it's kind of self-defense in a. way from it could be yeah i think as. well yeah look my first album's called.

divinely uninspired to a hellish extent. which is like. kind of getting. seeing my album [ __ ] before i can see my. album [ __ ] um. i think it's like it's nice to take the. power away from people because it's like. well i [ __ ] say that first. i mean like it's like i think it's quite. a as good as good takes the power away. from other people i think in in that. regard so i i do think there's probably. something in that but um the way i get. the way i see it i don't really feel.

like it's. dragging me like for example the stuff i. see myself in my head when i'm hungover. that is like damaging stuff like that. sort of thing like when you're hungover. and you're like. kind of just that self-loathing and that. sort of like that's the stuff that if i. said to myself all the time i'd be like. whoa you need to [ __ ] like chill out. i was like jovial and it's never stuff. that like. i can't change. you know i mean it's not like things. like. that i'm like if i'm calling myself.

chubby that's not like my i can't i can. do something about that like do i mean. i'm choosing like not you know what i. mean so it's something like. um like. there is an aspect as well like you kind. of. people you get to a point and doing. interviews like especially radio. stations that we do just say the same. thing over and over again so as it's the. same in that regard of like. people say a lot like you're very. self-deprecating it's like well. yes but these are i'm going to ask the. same questions everywhere i go so i'm. just kind of like rewarding a lot of.

this. self-deprecating pattern and then the. rest of it so. yeah i mean i don't think. second time around it's going to be. quite like i don't know. how it's going to play that's what i'm. saying about like turning it on again. and all the rest of it like. it's just that's it's gonna be. interesting to see like how things play. out this time around because it's like. yeah i'm not just gonna come out and say. the same stuff how did you how do you. feel about the second time around. give me the full range of emotions so. this is your second kind of yeah. releasing new music first time in like.

three years first time was just a smash. mega ultra hit yeah. some mate call it that yeah um and um. [ __ ] crazy yeah it's wild it's wild. so this time i'm [ __ ] myself but. this is the problem i think the nature. of the music industry it's a big problem. with i mean it's got so much better and. i've had a lot of support from. everyone around me no one forces me to. do anything. no one really we were able this is like. almost unheard of but like we were able.

to go away and make new music and bring. it to the label and be like this is the. new music that we're going to put out. and they said. great thank you we will now do our job. with this so it's like a lot of people. have like maybe an nr who's quite. oh no he's changed this changes and that. we were given like the first album i. think um free reign to kind of go do. what to do people have always checked up. on us. but i think in the music industry. and then maybe any industry it's like. you get a number one single and.

immediately it turns to. uh yeah but can i do it again yeah and. then you do it again and then i mean. like ah but how's the album doing and. it's like how are the tickets there's. always something else the goal posts. always [ __ ] changing so it's this. constant sort of like. state of [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] i need to like. right you can't it's like that thing i. mean it's so. i've spoken about to death but like that. thing i've not been able to sit back and. enjoy it because you're always. on the move to the next thing and on the. move the next thing i think that's why.

uh during lockdown i really struggled as. well because it was like oh the next. thing that the next thing and then there. is no next thing now because we're all. covered and all that [ __ ] and it's like. what do you do now and then you just. i'll have all this pen up [ __ ] how. was that exactly. it was um it was intense for sure. because you know what when we first got. announced well when kobe first got. announced as if it's a [ __ ] album. about him. coming this summer um but i think um. when cody first got like kind of. when the lockdowns first were announced. we were all [ __ ].

i think that was about like i was might. go on tour to an america to support now. horn. but having had just had the [ __ ]. horrible experience i had over two weeks. i was in a position to realize i don't. know if i can perform live anymore. without having a panic attack it was. that bad that every single night had a. panic attack i was twitching it was. [ __ ] horrible people who i knew. would be watching the gigs and they. would come back after and be like that. wasn't we didn't enjoy watching that gig. like that was really [ __ ]. hard for us to see you in that position. did you ever in those moments. question what you were doing yeah for.

sure but i i questioned what i was doing. a lot in lockdown as well like it was. that it kind of started it's like [ __ ]. if this is making me feel this bad. and that it was [ __ ] so heartbreaking. as well because sorry i keep having this. mic but i was so heartbroken about it. because playing live was the is the. the best bit about music like i [ __ ]. hate recording albums it's stressful. it's a pain in the ass. promo i kind of i get into a point where. i quite like it and it's kind of like. fun but it's not like why i'll get into. it i [ __ ] despise doing music videos.

i hate doing photo shoots hey get my. photo taken i only do all that stuff the. only reason i started writing songs was. because i thought okay i thought like. people who i was watching like bands. like green day are [ __ ] other monkeys. oh they write their own songs so i if i. want to play live i have to write my own. songs. um. the the so like the only reason i'd do. any of this little [ __ ] i'll put up with. this little [ __ ] is because the. playing live was just [ __ ]. unparalleled thing that's there's. that you can't compare it to anything.

else takes you back to being for that. karaoke right totally a hundred percent. and it's that same buzz every single. [ __ ] time like i mean i mean unless. you have a [ __ ] shotgun it's terrible. but um and then you're depressed for. like three weeks but um. yeah that buzz is just. unbelievable so like when when that was. making me feel shy i was about like well. this is [ __ ] horrific. and i was like i don't know how if this. has made me feel this bad. why. continue to do it and then at times. making new music and stuff i was like.

when i would get really down to myself. i'd be like [ __ ] is this actually worth. it all the rest of it i never actually. got to a point where i was like. oh. i'm going to quit i'll like think i. don't think it was ever something that. was serious in my mind because i've. literally never done anything else and i. would be [ __ ] useless anything else. i'm a lazy [ __ ]. like serious and i don't know that. sounds like i mean self-deprecating i i. am i'm just aware of that as a genuine. flaw that i am i'm trying to take the. steps to correct. honestly it's so [ __ ] i'm so bad for.

just like see like just sitting on tick. tock and [ __ ] scrolling through that. and this and i think as well getting to. the position i got and. my first album i was like [ __ ] now i can. like really [ __ ] be lazy like now i. can turn this [ __ ] [ __ ] right up it. was wild so like. at point's house it's like [ __ ] i just. do this and that but i think for the. most part i was never seriously. considering like stopping like. completely but it was definitely. something that and my mom and dad had. raised that uh raised it to my family.

and friends was like if this is making. you feel that bad especially when my. tourette's thing was really bad and i. never knew what it was. my dad gave me i left home from the. airport one night after i'd been in. london for a week. and i was twitching like [ __ ]. to the point where he started crying in. the car. because he was like this is like a game. i never knew it was threats at this. point he was like this is [ __ ] like. so like he thought i was having like a. seizure next day in the car and i was. mad so like. they were obviously concerned and. they're like why like just stop don't do.

this if it's making you feel less [ __ ]. you never had any of this anxiety and. before. this all took off but then again when i. went to therapy i was like. oh i actually did but this kind of just. tipped it over the edge maybe when it. became like panic attacks and stuff like. expect the live thing was really was. really a big thing we went and played um. the grand prix in abu dhabi in december. of last year. um. just like i said and i was really. worried about that and then.

we came we went on stage and i never. i've never had any of those issues like. i didn't twitch i didn't have a panic. attack whatever and i came off. and i was in the toilet and i was like i. could have [ __ ] busted the tails. because i was like oh [ __ ] [ __ ] i can. actually do this still and not have be. [ __ ]. twitching and not be [ __ ] terrified. and not all this [ __ ] i mean so um so. that was like a big a big thing but yeah. overlockdown stuff i definitely thought. initially when it happened it was such a. relief because i was like oh [ __ ] [ __ ] i. don't have to go away and do this to her.

mm-hmm. and then go and do festivals. because it was like it kind of gives. gave me a moment to kind of address it i. don't know. saying that obviously no. covered dead and. all the stuff that happened and people. lost jobs and all the rest of it. that feels like a like a selfish thing. to say but at the same time it's like. like i don't know how long how much. longer i could have kept up. having a panic attack every single. [ __ ] night on stage and just like. because it was it was like [ __ ] that. was like i i was suffering for sure um.

and yeah it just wasn't it wasn't fun. but again it was like i would come off. stage and be absolutely and then i'd be. like oh i'm not i'm not this bad i got. to a point where i was having panic. attacks. because i was anticipating having a. panic attack. you know i mean so when you get into. that cycle i think you're in real. trouble because it's like if you go. looking for something you're gonna. [ __ ] find that i mean you talk about. um how therapy helped that's really. inspiring to hear because a lot of the. time honestly when i sit here with. people who are um in that phase of their. life who have been through that they.

didn't seek out help until much much. later in life until you know much much. later after their career yeah um. what val and it's also i have to say. it's so. important and nice to hear your honesty. about that because. i think. we all i think therapy is something that. we should probably all consider if we. have the means to do it because. um it's sometimes not. like whack-a-mole of seeing a symptom. but a preventative measure as well how. was it you can't wait until.

things are worse to do something about. it it has to be something that you. continue to [ __ ]. continue to work at like you know what i. mean it's just i think people wait until. it's like. [ __ ] like the worst rock bottom. if you take the steps prior to rock. bottom you might not have to reach that. man how has it helped you and what does. it taught you because you know. i've had a few i've had a few um. i've i've tried a few different. therapists and that's the thing as well. now it's like you kind of go to like. different people when you kind of walk.

out i think a lot of people might go to. a therapist and go ah that doesn't work. for me but you have to kind of find the. person yeah exactly exactly so you have. to find the person who's right for you. um and i'm still like i'm still like. i've just started with a new like i'm. still like. trying to find the right person but like. i think um. it's just for me it was all about like. understand that like. the first one i did was like cbt yeah. yeah therapy for my anxiety and i was. like it was just about understanding. what anxiety is and why i'm having these.

and. what like looking out for triggers and. things like that it was it was very much. about because at the start when it's not. when you're just having plans actually. like oh what the [ __ ] is going on this. is mental like why am i feeling this and. then every sort of feeling you get when. you have a panic attack spurs it on even. more and it becomes a big [ __ ]. massive thing and i think when i went to. cbt therapy and she was like have you. felt like this if you feel like this you. feel this and i was like oh yeah all. that [ __ ] and she's like oh that's. anxiety and then i remember i used to. this passing out and seizure thing.

became a big thing as well when i was. having panic attacks. and she was like right well what happens. if you go if you have a seizure. and i go say. i don't know i've probably got a. hospital and she goes all right so. you're in hospital. was the best place for you to be after. the season she was like i was i'll. probably hospital she was like right. cool so what happens if you pass out i. goes oh i am i'll probably wake up and. and then i don't know i'm probably. hospital he's like it was the best place. we would be so it's like that's like. [ __ ] i just like really talking it.

out and then i never knew what. catastrophizing was when it was like. that sort of like snowball effective. yeah yeah this thing happens then this. thing happens so that was a big thing. and yeah so just that. and then the second therapist when it. was the person who mentioned the thing. about. my. my mum's mum and being exposed to like. death that young. and being around death that young and. kind of just. that being a thing with my hypochondria. i don't know the rest of it and then i. just think it's just it's so funny like.

when. they make you like. speak out like think like so like me. saying. hussain so what happens if you have a. seizure and i go i go to the hospital. and say well where was the best place. like i mean it's like so simple it's. like so simple but actually from them. making you say it you go oh it makes so. much [ __ ] sense um. and yeah so it's been it's been a big. help for and again it's like not. something that. i feel like. i fee again it's not something i saw.

myself doing i've got a therapy on the. rest of it but it definitely [ __ ]. makes me feel great like afterwards you. just feel that [ __ ]. weight has been lifted off your. shoulders and then i definitely i like. to say i would i if you have them used. to do it as something i would. recommend massively i think um. it has helped me like welcome to it. continues to help me it's that thing of. like. so anything it's like you go to the gym. taste it well i don't but you're going. to tell me. to stay fat like for me like going to. therapy is like can i go to the gym to.

kind of like help my mind just [ __ ]. exactly yeah work through things. and having the awareness to know that. you're you are living an extraordinarily. unhuman. life. and i say a human because we're not. meant to have feedback at that scale. we're not to go meant to go into arenas. i mean if we're probably from our. hardwire wiring we're probably meant to. be in groups of ten yeah people we know. and love you know small small. communities not going to arenas with. tens of thousands of people absolutely. man absolutely and i think that's the. thing as well as like.

understanding. that you this. experience that you've been through as. as. as as if not the world traumatic is a. [ __ ] big one but as it is. it's a massive switch like i was [ __ ]. playing pubs at weekends taking money. and [ __ ] i was at college uh doing. music because and the only reason i did. it was because i was lying on my bed one. day and my dad says what are you doing. after the summer and i goes oh i don't. know yet i was just gonna play gigs and. he was like are you [ __ ]. [ __ ] work at something so i thought.

my friend adam and i was like what. course are you doing i'm doing this. music course when done that so i was. just [ __ ] like portering around and. then. this [ __ ] just kicked off what was your. hope for life then if you could if we go. back because we just get past that part. what was your what was you if i had. asked you at 16 years old what you want. to be when you're older what would the. answer have been i've always just wanted. to make enough money doing music so i. didn't have to get a real job but. anything like if i made like. i don't know [ __ ] 500 pound a month i.

would have been [ __ ]. buzzing like i would have been so happy. with that but the first time i met my. manager he said to me uh what so what. what would be your [ __ ] like. ideal [ __ ] situation and there was an. artist called lewis watson at the time. who was like playing. who plays like who at the time was. playing like kind of size venues in. glasgow so that's like 350 people and i. was a huge fan of his and i was like oh. well i'd get like lewis watson and be. like my goal like that's like that kind. of. that cat playing king tuts size venues. i've been doing the youtube maps i go my.

manager was like i think you could do an. arenas okay this is the first state. first day i met him i think you could be. doing arenas and i was like shut the. [ __ ] up like tong pish. whatever and then [ __ ] cut two three. years later playing arenas it's like. this is madness so it's like. yeah i just wanted to be making enough. money playing music. that it wasn't. that i didn't have to get. for one of the better one real job. because this is like and this is this is. the thing as well with us. we music as well this is a [ __ ] one.

of the easiest jobs in the world this is. a really easy job the actual job part of. it. that's the it's the being it's the. famous side of things it's like. that causes the anxiety and stuff that's. your job is a [ __ ] breeze i'm after. one of my friends one of my best pals is. a gravedigger like i mean that's a. [ __ ] hard job this is a piece of piss. like this is great but it's that it's. the kind of. the pressure you put on yourself the. fame and stuff like that's like a and i. [ __ ] hate being on being like oh fame. man it's really tough but because again.

it's [ __ ] class and loads of respect. but um. but yeah so i think it's it's. for me it was never i never thought we. would get to this point like i never. even when i got signed. i didn't think it was going to last and. i've always been told like. getting signed means nothing really. because it does kind of i mean it's a. nice little tech but it doesn't mean. anything. more people get dropped than than. [ __ ]. to [ __ ] become success stories.

um. so it's always been like stuff that i've. i've always just. been glass half empty and being like. this probably isn't going to work out. but i'm going to [ __ ] try. and really give it a go but it probably. won't work out so don't get i don't like. to get too [ __ ]. aspirational. and i wouldn't say i'm necessarily an. ambitious person. i do think there's people around me who. are ambitious. and who we have the same. like lofty dreams and they maybe see.

something in me that again this is. something that i. cannot be more thankful for for like. labels and agents and prs and my manager. and my family and friends stuff they've. obviously saw something and thought. for some reason that we could get to a. point but personally i just feel like. like i'm just happy to play music and. specifically play live so if this just. can continue to that i can do that i. kind of like big crowds now so it'd be. nice to take a step back for at least. two years or whatever but.

if i can play live music yeah [ __ ]. i'll show up and play someone you loved. it any old shape for the next 20 years. do i mean i don't give a [ __ ]. i'll i'll do that man because it's a. buzz but um. but yeah i don't know i just think i've. always been that. oh that's probably what this is probably. the end of the road here this is. probably as big as it's going to get and. it's just like when i even when. we started doing well in terms of like. selling tickets for gigs and stuff i. always thought i never ever saw myself. as someone who's going to have a top 40. single.

so this is after selling out tools and i. just thought. oh we could maybe squeeze our top 10. album that was like my big my big thing. i was having a thousand album i'll be. [ __ ] happy and then. it just [ __ ] took on a life of its. own one of the things that i was um. really inspired by and which we kind of. skipped over again is this. how many years of like practice and. repetition you put in before. you got discovered like playing in pubs. at like 11 years old and sneaking in and. hiding in the toilets.

how important in hindsight was that. practiced like invaluable yeah so. [ __ ] like. like i wouldn't be doing this if i. hadn't been for that but that's the. thing it's like the love of doing it it. wasn't like it didn't feel like to me. like a chore like a [ __ ] and because. i wasn't aiming for anything it felt. like oh this is the buzz this is the. this is the goal. like we've heard yeah well we've done it. me when i got on stage when i was 11. hiding toilets. when i got on stage i was like [ __ ] i. made it this is good like i mean the.

fact that i didn't kicked out the bulb. again didn't get kicked out of the pub. that time that was [ __ ] ground that. was always after um. but i saw i i to me that was that was. [ __ ] that was the goal just play gags. that's class most of my memories are. like going out and getting hammered and. underage drinking which obviously. shouldn't do whatever but it's like um. as that are all related we put gigs on. and we we fight our friends at these. gigs and like we went we went and hired. problems that we knew served people who. were like 16 and like we did that was.

so my life has been so ingrained in like. doing like music but it never ever felt. like. even now it doesn't feel like i'm. working hard. nothing feels like i'm working hard like. without. getting to like. the number one record at the time didn't. feel like i was doing much. i just felt like i was because i [ __ ]. loved doing it i didn't feel like i was. working. really really hard again i think it. might be something to the fact that my. brothers are like electricians and my. dad's a fishmonger mums and i said i.

know what i can see like a property. craft. compared to. finding. but like i just never saw it as like. [ __ ] oh i'm. really in the pits here and i'm [ __ ]. like. i just didn't feel like i was working. hard and that goes back to like being in. those pubs and being in those like. shake bars when knew i was listening to. you or playing in a restaurant even when. i was thinking [ __ ] if i was eating my. dinner i wouldn't want to hear me. [ __ ] singing like that [ __ ] was like.

that and i think that's a lot to do with. like the the you have to. develop a thick again playing in a pub. because someone will show you a [ __ ]. show. non-stop when you're living well i. remember knowing you're 11. but when i. started puberty and the cute factor went. away it was like things got dicey for a. bit for sure things were actually things. were an issue but um. but yeah i think that that and that's. what that's any time i see i meet people. like young. guys or girls or [ __ ] whoever that. wants to. be a musician and it's like what did you. do whatever it's just plague x just.

immediately go and play right don't. focus on a lot of people are like oh i'm. going to look this way and i'm going to. [ __ ]. i'm going to [ __ ] this is how we're. going to perform on stage and it's just. like just go do it just go play gigs. don't worry about releasing you don't. have to release music i never released a. song. i never did like an official release. like like any like. [ __ ]. the first song i ever released was. bruises which was on my album that's the. first one i've ever put out like ricotta. went and recorded like a minute and. reconstructed and did some demos before.

but that was the first song i have a. popular god dude because i've been. writing songs for [ __ ]. at that point i would have i would have. been 20 when that came out so. 10 years i've been writing songs for. with 12 because i started running. sometimes nine so 12 years i've been. writing songs for. i got to a point where i was just like. but it was never in my head about. releasing music because i was like oh i. just want to play live like it was just. this this. thing that i just kept doing in tandem. with playing live so for me it's just.

like that's what i say people just go do. it and just go [ __ ] get the. experience i remember going to college. when we were 18. and. my. like all these people who were really. talented musicians and singers and. [ __ ] like. they had never but they'd never played. their live kick and i was so surprised. by it because they were [ __ ] much. much more like technically gifted than. all the rest of it and better singers. and all that [ __ ] than me but the. fact that we were we had played live so. much me and my uh friend adam who was a.

topic and. paige who was my girlfriend. ex-girlfriend who. love island one of 2020 but. she. she but she she was the same she'd done. loads of gigs adam had done loads of. things. like we all drove to thinking together. um. and it was like. with that sort of experience and gigging. that we all had became like. it was just so that it was so apparently. that sort of like. kind of disparity and not again these.

people were much better musicians and. like singers and everything than i was. but like when you got on stage it was. like. there was a marked difference i think. just because it was like you had that. comfortability of being up there and. doing it and. like i think my voice is that i sound. the way i sound because they're playing. in pubs like that sort of like loud. [ __ ]. because you had to [ __ ]. sing above the noise of people talking. push and like drinking all the rest and. like. i think yeah it says. if i hadn't done that looking back now.

i'm like oh that's that was the [ __ ]. that was the the kind of game changer. like this is not an easy question for. someone that's self-deprecating but when. you look back in hindsight as you said. there and you go do you know because we. all do it we go what what was the reason. why i was because you've been wildly. wildly [ __ ] successful i mean i. probably don't have the right words to. describe. just how big. your your records got and i'm a huge fan. of yours you have a music chat and i. really am i like you know um. in the same way i'm a big fan of adele.

i'm a big fan of ed sheeran you are your. record your records reached that level. thanks in hindsight so you say okay i'm. doing those pub gigs and the repetitions. there but what else. i think um. no self-defecation. because i'm a [ __ ] although i do. think that was a big thing. for sure um i think. i i remember when i first started using. like social media to do. the for. music it was the 1975 what kind of the. main band and everyone's like you have.

to be mysterious and you have to be sort. of like you know they were doing like. the gaps between the letters and all the. rest and it was very like black and. white really cool. remember if you look but i mean it's all. probably archived now but if you look. way back at the start of things i'm like. trying to do that and then after that. kind of faded out. but that was everybody everyone was. going any. cool meetings and i was like oh you had. to be like kind of mysterious cool like. black and white like. whatever. and then. [ __ ] we then went on to just i was. just kind of using it to be like oh i'm.

doing this today because i had actually. stopped using all social media when i. was 16. i didn't have instagram i didn't. have facebook i didn't have any [ __ ]. because i was just like. i thought i was being cool and edgy by. being off credits or whatever but i was. actually just a kind but um. yeah i just started using it like oh. playing [ __ ]. dr doc festival in bristol today or. whatever. and then it wasn't until like. i think i thought that we had reached. our peak in terms of like. music and all the rest of it like the. first episodes did really well.

and then. they kind of the releases in between. there was a song called rush but these. are songs i still love song called rush. and song called tough. tough we thought was like this angle we. thought this is the one that's gonna. [ __ ] if anyone was going to like blow. up. that's that one. it did [ __ ] all right um. absolutely [ __ ] off. and i think at that point we were like. okay this is kind of racist peak we. haven't reached the heights of bruce's. because bruce's kind of blew up online. um him reese wright hates the bruises. and that's going to be a song and.

whatever blah blah so then i just like. didn't give a [ __ ] on instagram and i. was just like. just doing stuff that i thought me like. me and my pals would laugh at and. [ __ ] just talk absolutely [ __ ] shy. and just genuinely like being myself. or instagram. really which was taking the pacific. things and taking the pacific being. famous i remember that the first one. that i remember. was coming back from an american tour. we had played like places in the kind of. nice shows in america and it was this. big spread in the um.

and like the sun or some other newspaper. well i don't know but like some other. newspaper. um so this big spread that i said like. lewis capaldi no hiding place now. and when i had been in that and on the. american tour this girl in philadelphia. had given me these stupid [ __ ]. glasses like these stupid [ __ ] daft. cat eye glasses. and i had the moment and i was like. i don't know if it was jet lag i'd just. be an exhausted thing but i started. filming myself and being like yeah i'm. [ __ ] so famous now by the way it's.

unbelievable that's me no hiding place. now please [ __ ] stop just talking. partial. put the glasses on i was like this is. again just a name shy not thinking about. it like taking the piss and then people. just really reacted to it. again it wasn't something that i was. then like. and no one was like oh we have to this. is a thing though we just kind of left. it and just kept. the more and more i just got comfortable. just talking to your [ __ ] phone and. taking the piss and realizing you know.

what social media is actually a mistake. like just don't use everything serious. just have a laugh and. i think that was like the the the the. big thing on that when it was like okay. i found my feet and i found my voice. and i just started to capacity of things. and and just realizing oh you can. actually just. you can philly just put a picture of you. where towel wraps around your head and. these stupid glasses on me on top of you. can put that on a big massive poster on. the chip that's great. yeah like all that [ __ ] yeah yeah it's. like why not do that like like you don't.

have to look good or kill on it or. whatever you need to do a [ __ ] stupid. thing we did that whole christmas thingy. where it was just. close-up picture in my face less and it. just says merry christmas for musicality. there was no way we weren't promoting. anything anything like i just that was. it was all in the tube. no label would ever tell you that is the. strategy to become successful and yet. for many people that will actually be. well for some people that'll be how they. discovered you i remember that video of. you. you found out your net worth oh yeah.

no one would ever tell you to do that. never marketing strategy well that but. this is a thing that now that someone. was like we started to see other. mostly male artists. doing it. and like. doing like very close things to you and.

not to be like oh you [ __ ] called me. because it's like whatever it's people. taking a person trying to do your thing. try whatever you can i get how hard it. is [ __ ] let's do it i remember seeing. a tweet somebody saying a few years ago. labels were telling people to be like. the 1975 and now you're going to. meetings people telling people we'll be. able to capable i can't remember who did. it but i could probably find it but like. i remember reading that and being like. is it like because obviously i'm just. doing whatever and i'm like is that a. thing and then like i just started. seeing it for more and more people and.

then i was oh this is [ __ ] great like. cool we're all just being ourselves this. is great but you see some people doing. it and that's not their personality and. you can kind of see it yeah they can't. fake it either exactly and i think. that's the thing and i don't know. i know i'm not really sure what it would. be but then like someone like. like that you look at it now and it's. like people who are themselves like. dojika and lizzo are two people who just. are themselves and people love them. for it there's a name i'm forgetting um. young uh young blood no an an artist in. america who did that.

song about. riding a. horse oh hello nurse. and exactly that's our thing and now. obviously he's doing so much for the. lgbt plus um. representation especially in like hip. hop and all the rest of it it's [ __ ]. it's amazing and i think yeah people who. are that's the thing now you're seeing. people who are themselves it's less. about being like a polished [ __ ]. pop star whatever people people because. i think people now. see through that [ __ ] like people see.

like. well you're way more relatable than. some. perfect. beautiful like some like one like a. david beckham model with like six-pack. habs who is faultless yeah and just is. pr trained oh yeah i can't relate to. that yeah of course but then. what's funny then is it becomes. such a part like it becomes a point. where that tons of people start going. oh well that's just i remember being a. story and like this i think one of those. people got in touch saying oh there's a.

story that um. lewis has a comedy writer is that true i. took college lessons and i'm like if i. take comments i think i'll be coming. with a better [ __ ] than [ __ ] i'm fat and. i'm and i'm like falling in that joke i. mean i think i'd be able to [ __ ] yeah. i'd have better [ __ ] material i mean. but um. get me something on the phone james he. cast it on the phone but like um. no it was like so then that becomes like. that then turns and it's like people are. like oh he's [ __ ] he's trying too.

hard now and you're like i'm just doing. the [ __ ] same thing i was last like. do i mean for the last 10 years but um. but i think that that yeah people people. do. like when you again when you can see. someone's not being themselves like when. we were doing that and there was other. people doing the same [ __ ] as it was. like. that's not i can see that that's not you. and that but that was like nothing. that's probably a label that's been like. this is working for that current yeah do. this like i mean there's a juxtaposition. with you though because because of the. music you make i'll be honest so i heard. your music first loved your music all.

that stuff then i'm on twitter one day. and i see this guy talking about his. network and sitting in his like mum's. bedroom being like where the [ __ ] is. this money don't tell the tax man and. i'm thinking that's the guy out here. because this guy is a comedian and he's. he's not serious at all. and then this guy in the music is deep. profound and serious and emotional yeah. it felt like two different people so. that's actually what make for me made it. even more. like shocking but cool yeah surprising.

100 and i think i think a lot of people. had that i never. noticed that as like a thing like i. never um. i never like saw that as a thing until. people started pointing out it's like. you know you're not like your songs talk. torn. because i never really thought about it. i mean like i'd always just [ __ ]. made tunes and then was who i was i mean. but it's easier to write a bit sad. things i guess like it's hard to write. about like has it always been easy to. write about something i remember reading. about this moment when someone turned to. you and said how's your life going when. you were like 18 19 and yeah yeah that.

changed everything for you yeah so up. until then i probably i was writing. songs and i'd learned how to like craft. a song but i wasn't like writing. anything with any like. [ __ ] like meaning or like yeah like i. was all kind of. making up stories or whatever just like. they weren't really about anything. um. and then you got me you come out and you. go into like co-writing sessions in. london i think i was i might have been. 17 on my first one um and you go in. and someone goes. oh this is it's actually with a guy.

called green who i still see now and. then honestly he's a great writer great. producer. any ego like so what's going on in your. life man how you doing like what do i. write about and i'm like what the [ __ ]. are you talking like who are you like. i've just met you and you're asking me. like how i'm doing and what's going on. my life like it was almost like. like aggressive the way i was saying i. was like stand over i was like [ __ ]. you like. i just remember thinking that and then. over time that becomes you realize. that's like the people want. like talk about that and it's like. that's what makes great songs is like if.

you have these. um. yeah if you have these. real stories behind them and these real. emotions behind them um. and that's not to say you can't write a. great song and it's just god was a good. like [ __ ] i remember years and years. ago that but um remember that robbie. williams song hey oh here she goes you. really do that great chin right but i. mean i haven't i don't know if you've. been like oh it doesn't mean anything. it's just like it's just all like. cool and thing and it's a great song i. [ __ ] love that song but like. it was like.

when it came to writing my songs i found. that that was like oh this is the. [ __ ]. this is the thing i've kind of been. missing is like. it's weird that it took writing with. someone else to bring out. more of myself in the tunes are you in. touch with your emotions. i think so i think like i i think it's. really important to feel how you're. feeling. so meaning like if i feel wake up the. one thing i feel sad i think it's. important like there's a reason i'm sad. and i should.

sit with it and feel it. rather than like. ah put it off for like not kind of. explore i think it is. quite important to like. try your best to [ __ ]. just just like. not. trying to put off being [ __ ] sad just. leads to like for me a big [ __ ]. hole where you're going to like really. really. you're going to just go off a cliff at. one point and you can't keep putting off. or like putting it in boozing instead of.

[ __ ] dealing with stuff for whatever. i see me being happy if you're happy. [ __ ]. great feel it. i always [ __ ] like getting like. really melancholic after especially like. so i just did like my first show and. years. with my band over the weekend they're in. denmark and then coming back home sunday. kind of saturday afternoon sunday and i. was just in my empty flat and i was like. [ __ ] i feel like i feel like [ __ ] i feel. really sad now because i've just had. this amazing [ __ ] like i like to come. down high and let the calm down was just. like thank you but i thought it's.

important to like. sit with that and then enjoy it and kind. of like not dissect it as such but just. like. kind of let it sort of. take you obviously don't let it run away. but just kind of like. deal with it don't deny it yeah exactly. don't be like nah i'm grounded i'm gonna. take see now if i'm anxious i'll feel. anxious and be like okay i'm feeling. anxious. that's fine i don't know why i'm feeling. this could be this given this could be. this i know a lot of people who journal. and write down like i'm feeling access. because of this what can i control what. can i not all the rest it um.

and i think yeah i try and. i try and sit with things i do think. since i've been famous of stuff that i'm. like less and. maybe in touch with like i've been like. like i've really like relationships i. feel like i've become quite a closed off. person not unlike with my parents or. anything else but like if i'm starting a. new relationship or trying to start a. relationship i can be quite a romantic. relationship yeah yeah i can be quite. like. i don't know shut off like a shield is.

that yeah yeah for sure and i guess. that's just a response to. you know. everything that's happened but it's. definitely like. so you mean like when if you meet. someone new so if it's romantic partner. or if it's new people you can kind of. keep a wall up because yeah. yeah and i feel like i can like i can be. i can have. it's kind of like i feel like i can give. this maybe more friendship but i can. give people the impression that i'm like. giving them everything. but really i know like i'm [ __ ].

defending certain things. like what. i don't know just like my own sort of. like. maybe like insecurities about things my. own worries about things because you. think if you share that then. it's just quite a vulnerable position to. be in and then it's like you don't. really know you don't want to give that. straight away yeah yeah taught it. because it might you don't have to react. to it totally hard understand and it's. like you don't really want any. i don't know you just you're kind of. careful about who you. share that with and who's how you spend. your time with in general but like it's.

easier sometimes you just not. give that away the end to give them the. like the public image first yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah. because that's the thing there's where. everyone has a perception of who you are. and like even if i'm on dating apps or. whatever. it's kind of weirdly one-sided but i'm. asking them a bunch of [ __ ] because it's. like. they can google yeah they know loads of. things and they've either seen an. interview or [ __ ] head on the radio. or. and it's like this is one of the things. i think i'm quite. open and. um interviews and stuff like that but i. do think there's still a lot of things.

people don't. know about me like the certain questions. i won't get asked because. of like i've always wanted to ask. someone this question i'm not sure i've. ever asked it but um it's i sat one day. with myself and i thought what's the. question as someone that's always doing. interviews always talking what's the. question someone should ask me what's. the best question they should probably. should ask me because i'd love to ask. that question to someone else one day. and the best question i could come up. with is steve if i was committed to. myself steve. what is the question that no one asks. you.

that they should be asking you that. would reveal the most interesting. untapped answer. now. i'm gonna ask you that question and then. i'll answer it myself as well which i've. never done before okay um [ __ ]. i don't know like what's the question. that you think you know if you'd asked. me that if i would have found out. something that oh i don't know. um. maybe like things like what makes you. happy. like genuinely what makes you happy. because i can think about loads of. things i might be sad but i'm quite hard.

to like. music became a like a hobby that became. a job. and now i like find in my life there's a. lot of gaps in terms of like what i i. can do to like. make myself like like other than [ __ ]. i'm sorry i'm abstaining from alcohol in. a minute i'm not like [ __ ] thinking. but like i've been off it for like three. four weeks or whatever. just because we're doing we're busy. doing all this [ __ ] so i want to be okay. and it's like other than like and again. this is part of where i grew up other. than like going out at the beginning and. pissed it's like what do you do or like.

are like playing shows what do you do. that actually makes you. happy and i think a lot i i kind of. don't know. do you know what i mean other than like. my music and back to me. yeah that's a very. strange position to be in and it's like. i don't know where i would start to like. to try and find something like that you. know what i mean is that in part because. your success took your. your whole passion yeah yeah exactly. yeah exactly it takes your passion to me.

because it kind of turns it into it's. monetization. yeah yeah it's responsibility it's. [ __ ] pressure it's your abandoned. crew who've got kids and stuff like that. that you feel kind of responsible for in. a way and then it's like. the pressures of [ __ ]. trying not to say the wrong thing. especially in [ __ ]. these times when trying not to say the. wrong thing all the time [ __ ]. um. like trying not to like. you don't you don't want to upset. anybody so try not to upset anybody and. also the pressure of [ __ ] that first.

album did well what says next i'm going. to do like this sort of. uncertainty i think a lot of people as. well think just because the first album. started well the second dance to go into. great and it's just not this is not the. case you're only as good as your next. song i think i wanna one of the things. that i think is important for you to. know is that is not a lewis capaldi. thing that is a human thing i remember. reading one day about a study which i. actually wrote about my book where they. got people to do a task right a game. that they enjoyed doing sure and they. measured their success performance and.

all those kind of things happiness and. then they got them to do the exact same. task. but they paid them to do it exactly. and their motivation and happiness. dropped and it's and it's so paradoxical. you don't think well if you pay me to do. something that i love. my joy of doing it will drop that makes. absolutely no sense but you're right it. shifts from being passion as the key. incentive and motivator. to money or. responsibility yeah um and it's even. something i think about with this. podcast because i started it because i. love it i love having these.

conversations and no one's [ __ ]. listening yeah yeah totally knowing all. of this and about how motivation money i. just want to keep fighting for the bit. that i love and doing it my way and not. allowing. you're good at this because i know you. cancelled some shows when you just. needed some time it's just taking some. [ __ ] time when i need it and saying. no totally and i think that's the thing. that's like that we're like we're saying. about. stopping before. you are stopped you get drink you know. what i mean it's like stopping when you. have the it's you who's made it rather. than oh you physically can't do this. just now because you're in such a bad.

way but what was that what was the. question that you'd probably have to. learn. you remembered yeah come on um. i don't think. people ask me so it would be around how. i've dealt with. the. shift in my life from going from being. like someone that no the newspapers. didn't write about to being. getting emails from the big newspaper. saying is this story true about your. past or your life and like in those.

moments. it's really [ __ ] me like it's like so. i've had just this like now the media. seem to care about my life. and. sometimes they say things which aren't. true and i had thousands of employees so. they went back through all of my. employees and remember this one article. where they like found like three of them. which was like 0.01 percent of my. improvements and i'd never met these. three people and they and those three. people had a bad experience they wrote a. story about it um. not bad experience with me but a bad. experience with someone in my business. and that like crippled me for like many.

days i was i couldn't think about. anything else i was in like and that is. probably my actually probably my first. experience with something that i would. call anxiety just like feeling like. nervous for like days on end yeah. totally and it's over control as well. i even even with all my experience doing. this podcast and speaking to hundreds. and thousands hundreds of successful. people about anxiety and all those. things and how you deal with it you. would think i would be an expert yeah. totally no [ __ ] yeah. yeah no i'm not and i still don't know i. still don't know how to if i get into.

one of those moments. i never got into it before. it was only public attention that did it. to me yeah i mean business pressure. never there's public attention in like i. don't even say i'm famous but quote. unquote like. being in the public spotlight i mean we. go this is a new feeling yeah because. you can't you can't control. other people's perception of you you. can't control. how. how you are perceived by the way the. public people will make like there is. i remember how did the brit awards. to just announce an award they'll be.

there like last year or something i. wasn't there performing that i went and. i was like oh [ __ ]. um i can't remember i said i think i. went the crowd was like cheering all. that and i went shut up shut up shut up. very like jovial no one was offended you. go online and there's like comments like. he's so disrespectful because it was nhs. workers in the [ __ ]. he's so unlike that's so disrespectful. my mom works for the nhs by the way.

right i've said much more on the shop. but. but yeah it's that thing it's that that. i totally can empathize with that. situation because it's just [ __ ] like. you you've gotten to do this you're only. doing this because you love doing this. and then in your business because you've. lived in your business and that's that. you're not trained and no one's trained. humans aren't meant to have [ __ ]. millions of people i'm going to come. back to something you said earlier. because we glazed past that and my brain. has just gone go back to that sure. you're you're on tinder oh yeah yeah. yeah.

i'm dating i've just been kicked off. with tender right because i think people. think i'm a bit important fake yeah so. i've been kicked off with bumble tinder. hinge and hinges the one i really like i. love tinder right turner's great but i. just want to really like again because i. feel like that's no like mid 20s like. that's what people are on um i'm on i'm. on oh yeah i'm on a bunch of them don't. worry about that but then and then i'll. go oh god this i got on this one someone. else they told me again this thing. called field and i was like okay there's. another [ __ ] dating app whatever and. i go on it and it's like.

so sexual it's unbelie like it's all. about like. like kinks and [ __ ] bdsm and i'm like. this is way beyond like anything i'm. like. tuned in for but like yeah but kicked. off hinge bumble tenderized because i'm. thinking i'm still [ __ ] 25. but i. think as well i always struggle with. like i don't want to like. there's always like people who talk. about things like with a power imbalance. of like. someone being famous or whatever not but. i'm trying to like work that out as well. that's like a new thing of like i don't.

want to like use my fame or i don't i. don't want to have any influence over. someone who i'm gonna i'm dating but. then at the same time it's obviously. kind of like and it's unavoidable yeah. and it's like i can't what am i only. supposed to date people who are also. famous like fit that's a really weird. thing so it's that thing of like. yeah as strange that i i don't matter. beyond tender it's a bit weird and. they'll last girl nintendo she's [ __ ]. great so this is brilliant like this is. after i've been famous is there a part. of you that hopes they don't give a [ __ ]. about it and don't know who you are um.

no i i think i'm like. because again it's that way of like 20. any girl from like 22 to 25. is probably gonna no again that's like. sounds wanky but just. age range like [ __ ] nowhere to hide. yes you know what i mean exactly yeah. nobody hey i'm [ __ ] famous um. but i think. i cannot i cannot want them to if they. know. there's nothing worse than a girl gone. oh i didn't even like realize like there.

is like i hate that when you can like. tell. that someone's talking about sometimes. it's so [ __ ] totally thinking but. sometimes when. people out like i just doesn't know when. people like. i don't know if you've had this. since like that's all blown up but like. i've got girlfriend mate so i don't know. but like when people come up to you. anybody comes up to you and they love to. let you know that they don't give a [ __ ]. who you are. it's like they almost i don't even know. who you are i don't give a [ __ ]. and you're like all right like feels. mutual like what the [ __ ] is this like.

you don't have to come up and tell me. that you didn't know that it's [ __ ]. brutal but um so like and sometimes that. happens in dating as well when it's like. yeah i don't even [ __ ] care about. like who you are whatever and it's just. like. okay this is like you don't have to tell. me that like just like we can just have. a conversation with two human beings. whatever but um. yeah i think i would rather if they did. know who i was that i was like oh yeah. like let your music's killer blah blah i. probably wouldn't if someone was like.

[ __ ] like if someone was like for. example if i made a girl a gig. no yeah i probably wouldn't maybe back. like ages ago when i was playing small. games but like now it just feels a bit. that feels weird to me yeah that's a. very big. um thing that feels like maybe taking. advantage of your position so i'm. probably gonna do that i wouldn't do. that don't stop. but i think yeah if someone was like. into the music that's great if someone. was like oh that's not really my thing. but cool someone hated it absolutely. fine as well but um i just think i saw.

people to be as up front as possible. rather than be like. uh yeah oh are you that oh is that like. your song whatever blah blah blah but. it's like you just want people to be. genuine right yeah exactly exactly. that's yeah because if they're not then. there's trust question marks right i. think of course of course and i think. that that's again maybe a big thing i'd. like the whole. not giving too much of myself away and. all the rest of it like. and putting those walls up. how how is dating in relationships and. all that in your life now because.

do you have do you have um. do you have trust issues that people are. going for you for the wrong reasons. that's the question i get asked a lot. it's like how would you should be like. dragon's den and people know you for. like money yeah yeah totally people. think that you're going to attract a. certain type of yes of course of course. i mean yeah totally but this is m. the really good bit and the trip with. steve coogler and rob brydon when he. goes oh well she's only going out are. you famous because you're famous and i. see who goes but i am famous that's like. me saying he's only going out with you. because you're good-looking and young.

like yeah. it's that thing i'm like it's such a big. part right now at least right now in my. life of who i am. and that it's hard to get away from i i. i think that's kony. listen more. for some crazy coincidence more girls. are interested in me now. than there were. a couple of years really i don't know. what it is. but it's definitely changed they read. about your net worth yeah yeah yeah [ __ ]. but it's not to say like and i don't but. like.

it's a like again it's not a thing of. like see people not feel like they know. you and like all the rest of it and. they've seen. your personality and you've maybe made. them laugh or like whatever that can be. attractive thank you and as as well. you maybe have this er people think. you're confident because like or at. least with people within confident. because of how i am on like if i'm on a. talk show or if i'm on. like my instagram people assume that i'm. a lot more kind of confident and i've. had a few beers i'm going to be more. chatty and.

i wouldn't. i wouldn't say so not really again it's. that thing of like. feeling really open to like. people like it's like that you're kind. of put on display like i i feel like. i i hate. i don't know i just don't think i'm. yeah no i wouldn't say i'm not as. confident as i was when i was a kid. let's put that away i mean i don't think. anyone else but like i don't some days i. feel really outgoing and i'm like oh i'm. really chatting some days i struggle to. talk to my friends like see sometimes.

i'll just be like there'll be a bunch of. us around there will be honest and then. like three of them will leave and it'll. just be me one of one of the pal and in. my head i'm like [ __ ] what do you say to. your friends again like i mean it's that. way where you just stand your head and. you get my head now but like. um i can't think of anything to say you. know what i mean so sometimes that. happens like there's been times where. i've done interviews people. and i've been really chatty and outgoing. because it's like it's a setup thing. they're asking me questions i don't. necessarily esm anything. and it's quite easy to just kind of look. into that rhythm but where it's like.

and maybe it's maybe part of doing. interviews because a lot of the the sort. of interactions i have people are very. like one-sided. ask a question i'll answer that ask a. question whereas and now i kind of. sometimes i'm a bit especially in a. romantic setting i'm a bit like [ __ ]. what did i say to us like what did i say. to this person and it's something that. yeah i mean you get better obviously but. um and plus it's an interesting thing as. well because if someone knows what you. do it's quite an it's like a job that.

yeah they might so they might still have. any questions and it becomes a bit of a. problem is it can become a bit of a q a. and that's exhausting yeah yeah totally. you want to be doing that on the [ __ ]. weekend no no i totally 100 like people. asking like oh how's. the gigs going or how's like writing new. music going you're like you're going to. give the dude answers which is just yeah. that's good all right. and you know like they don't really care. yeah yeah yeah. isn't that the worst type of question. when you know someone's asking a. question and they don't really care yeah. of course i absolutely just buy small. talk yeah as you can probably tell from. this podcast.

yeah i totally agree but then it's very. again how often. in the real world can you start a. conversation with a really deep question. never exactly that's what it's like and. that's the question yeah we got off to. this [ __ ] great start and it's like. like even. even before the podcast and stuff it was. like having each other it was about. [ __ ] proper and deep stuff so i was. like but in real life if you walk up to. sunday and tesco's or whatever and go. like. tell me about key points in your life.

it's like then we were like what the. [ __ ]. you stopped by some bread i mean. i think that's. thank you but um but yeah that's what. i'm saying it's like so refreshing to. have these conversations and actually. speak about these things because it's. like. there's just no other situation where. you can actually sit there and talk to. us unless it's like your family or. friends but even then it's like. sometimes when you go to your parents. you know what i have [ __ ]. big teachers just like be with your. parents and enjoy being with your. parents and like just sit and have. dinner and just enjoy either yeah just.

be there rather than be like. oh explain your whole life yeah totally. i mean i think. yeah so these these situations that are. very i mean i don't often have we don't. often have conversations just deep in. front of cameras like that's my cameras. but like i think. um yes. it's always refreshing. when you think so you got. you know you now realize that there is. and i hate to i can add more pressure. but you know there's an exp there's the. people are waiting now for this. for new music at some point whenever.

it's going to be coming. um. how do you feel how are you feeling. about that how you feeling oh i'm like. changing the [ __ ] myself the point's. making this [ __ ] new music where i. was like i don't actually [ __ ] care. about this am i just going for the. motions and writing this writing these. songs and all this. and then there was be days where i'm. like [ __ ] um the sweat on this so now. the album's done and every single song i. [ __ ] love and i think is a better. album the first one and i really care. about it and i really put a lot. because i write about a lot more stuff. that i would never spoke about in the.

first album like pertaining to. my own mental health and like. my own sort of outlook on things. regarding being famous or whatever um. and i think. like that it was kind of like a nice. thing to be scared because i'm like oh. [ __ ] i really really want this to go. well because i really care about this. album and i i realized i'm really keen. about making this music and being able. to put out and having this privileged. position to be able to [ __ ] go and do. that but yeah i'd be lying if i said. that was anything other than absolutely.

[ __ ] bricking it it's like it's a. serious eh. and it's like. it's that thing as well like like i said. earlier where people like ah man you can. [ __ ] shout you could fart in the mic. and go [ __ ] top 10 or whatever just. because the last album. did well does not mean that at all it's. like [ __ ] as nonsense like people. want good music everything the music. [ __ ] that it's not. it's not going to fly do that mean but. you've done the bit you can control. yes 100 but is there not now risk of.

putting your emotions on the. uncontrollable like there's nothing now. you can do once you've written music and. you've you've done the hard bit there's. nothing more that you can do to control. obviously you can do promo and stuff but. that's not gonna you know that won't. yeah that's not gonna be the thing that. pushes over the edge yeah no totally and. and as that as like the [ __ ] unknown. as [ __ ] that i can't control when it is. up to [ __ ] i don't know a [ __ ]. higher power of faith or whatever i. don't know but like. it's uh. it's still still quite hard it's one of. those things where no amount of therapy. i think is going to help me not focus on.

that yeah and it's like i'm quite bad. for like having anticipation anxiety. being like because i'm ready to [ __ ]. go now like i'm ready to go like someone. suggested that we push things back a bit. melody a bit more and i was like i. cannot wait like any longer to put this. music out this is like this has to go. out and as well if you wait too long. it's [ __ ] the album starts to mean. less to you and you kind of like you get. further away from writing those songs. and what they meant to whatever so um. can i ask you a question yes. if it goes.

really well. so if it goes bad i kind of can guess. how you probably might feel yeah but if. it goes really well how will you feel i. don't know this is like i'm kind of. worried that if it goes bad i'll be. relieved. because i'll be like. oh [ __ ] [ __ ] that all that pressure's. off you know i mean like some part of me. kind of feels like that and then part of. me feels like oh no if it goes well i'll. be relieved but then sometimes i'm like. oh but if it goes well i'll be like [ __ ]. i've got all this at least like. i mean there's only like. if it goes well.

surely that just means more prying eyes. and more. like fame and more like thing which. again is [ __ ] great a lot of the time. but it has its pitfalls and it's like. will that then. feed into the anxiety more or is this my. anxiety now i've learned to deal with it. or will it get worse or will it expand. or will it show itself in different ways. what would you say to a friend if they. were going through thinking all the. things you're thinking what would you. say if you were if i was your best mate. we'd known each other since we were kids. and i was saying all this stuff to you. what would you say to me.

i don't know i'd say just like. remember why you got into in the first. place remember doing that don't. don't feel like you're working towards. some end product feel like you're you're. this is the end product you're enjoying. it this is what you're supposed to be. doing you're here. [ __ ] be here don't [ __ ]. you're not there's no [ __ ] it's not a. destiny like this pure like on a [ __ ]. card but like there's no destination. that you're trying to get to but like. just [ __ ] like this is the fun part. like this is this is supposed to be fun. let it be fun do you know what i mean.

because i think the only thing that's. stopping being fun is [ __ ]. my mind i mean so. i mean it's easier to say that to people. than decisions yeah it is you're right. but they say they say i've read the. quote i've posted this a few times. myself where you say you know if you. always go through life believing. happiness is somewhere else then it will. never be where you are. it's like deferring the happiness to a. future moment but it's like a mirage you. see it in like when people are in those. like movies in the desert and they see i. know you're like chasing a rainbow it. just keeps moving off further into the. future.

and i think that that's the the thing as. well i haven't done all this mad [ __ ]. and then been to like um the grammys. [ __ ] hate the grammys. [ __ ] been to a bunch other world. shows that i didn't really enjoy. the the what i loved the most was the. awards the night that i had won two. awards not because i won the awards but. because it was like the first time i've. ever felt like oh [ __ ] we're celebrating. this my mom and dad were there three of. my best pals for home we're like well. able to come down and do it the people. who'd walked on the record was actually. sitting at the table with me we were.

like like label wise and manager-wise. and that we're like that felt like. an amazing moment and then you realize. it's because there was all these people. there it wasn't like because of you yeah. i'm there and i've won something or. whatever it's because you're celebrating. this way like. people that you love and people that you. that have been through it all with you. and. yeah my mom and dad obviously my mum. gave birth to me by the way. yeah yeah like. so like my mum and dad and then my. friends who i've grown up with and then. these people who have put their [ __ ]. blood sweat and tears and making the.

record with me and then. like the label and stuff have [ __ ]. worked so hard and promoting it and. getting out there and. i think that's. that was what like what you'd realize is. like i mean again it's like so [ __ ]. like. cliche however but that is like you were. like [ __ ] this is genuinely. why it's fun like because you're getting. to share this moment with all these. other people when. it's not anything to do with like you. say. getting to a point like getting to the. brits and winning a brick was very i was. having a [ __ ] great night that night.

regardless you know what i mean like. there was nothing that was going to like. either way yeah i mean if i'd lost i. wouldn't have been like oh [ __ ] i lost. nice room and i'm going home it would. have been like all right kill let's. [ __ ] kick on i just so happened that. i won these two things i had to care. about me for the rest of the night i. mean. [Laughter]. but then like and then going to the. grammys i remember grammys start to. finish had a panic attack the whole time. it was [ __ ] dreadful hated every. moment of it. and when we didn't win i mean feeling. like oh thank god and like i just kind.

of like. melted away because it was like fun [ __ ]. i don't need to go and do that [ __ ] i. don't know if it maybe it was like. [ __ ] this is good i don't know if maybe. in my head i'm like oh [ __ ] if we were. to win something like that that's like. more and more eyes on you that maybe you. can't handle at this moment in time i. don't know if it's my body like. telling me something but. i [ __ ] hated the grammys pish. like all these things were like. and at that time it was just me my. manager and like the guys who wrote. something live with like i think.

when you can see the people i mean i. love them to bits but and when you can. see like the people you're. like who have kind of made you who you. are as it were. enjoying the things that you're enjoying. and seeing it unfold and stuff i think. that's the. that's the buzz so how do you make sure. how do you take that with you going. forward well hopefully the record does. well enough next time that i can ask for. more tickets to things i mean that's. honestly like but i think that's like. like it's just keeping those people. close and like that's that's another. thing about coverage and going back to. like.

i live for my paint i like i didn't have. a platter whatever i lived with my. parents um because i was on twitter all. the time i never knew the house so i. moved out during cover and stuff and. it's like that realizing like. like. no matter what however things go no. matter where you go and about what. happens in your career i [ __ ]. it's like it's always just going to come. back to that and those people and those. and like where your roots are and stuff. i don't think it's. it's it's just for me that's that's.

it kind of reaffirms the importance of. all that stuff. covered like being there and being back. and. yeah i think that was for me the. that that covered for me that was kind. of what. i got out of it and i think for me it's. just. then taking that forward and trying. at any time i can't share. moments like that with people even if it. means that i was doing an award to. america flying some people out and doing. it and it's like. [ __ ] it's like not worrying about.

like oh [ __ ] it's quite expensive. [ __ ] it fire them up because it's like. it's going to make the moment. it's going to make them yeah it's going. to make it exactly yeah it's going to. make it [ __ ] what it is and it's. going to [ __ ] that's interesting yeah. do you have any goals looking really. into the future do you have any of those. big bucket list style goals where you go. [ __ ] how that would be i'd like to. write a song for a film. okay that's kind of my only. thing or something maybe not i i don't. know if i'm in fact that's the me. i don't know i'm swag enough to have.

that sort of like thingy but um i don't. know man let anything anything would be. good but like even if it's like. i don't know something like indie film. whatever it doesn't have to be [ __ ]. just like i quite like the idea of. that's like a new challenge like writing. for i wrote for a game once that was. quite fun i enjoyed that reckon you. could do it for a podcast yeah yeah. [ __ ] sure. i like it like come on battle in the. voice. i know you're not cheap. [Laughter]. but yeah so that for me that's kind of i. don't really have any like in terms of.

like in chat positions. again i never really had that first time. around and i think it's only you know. they're going to be disappointed in. situations like that. i think maybe. yeah i don't really know i just can't. again. it's meant to be fun. and i think me putting goals on things. the way my mind works would. kind of strip that of some of the fun of. it you know what i mean so yeah the film. thing would be good. and i hope the people who really really.

loved the first album really really love. the second album doesn't have to be more. like. more people but the people who like. really really. carry the album with them and still were. [ __ ] like. like still [ __ ] uh corrected 10 i'm. still [ __ ] playing it over and over. again i hope that they love. the second record and i hope that did. that and their eyes did it justice. because in mind i have what about. personal goals so like when i when i. look at my personal life i go okay. there's a certain balance and structure. to my personal life that i hope to.

achieve someday. um. i think i still need to learn. how to say no to things i think i'm i'm. getting i have to cancel yours before. and all the rest of it but i i'm quite. bad at like i [ __ ] if i say no with that. that's an opportunity that just won't. come back or whatever um i need to learn. i'd like to be able to do that. um just for my own sort of personal life. um. i'd like to do some traveling that isn't. relating to work at some point. i guess that's like taking time for. myself i would like.

that was kind of the plan over covert. like well what what became covered i was. going to go away and see all these. places and actually just take some time. so i'd like to do that. kids. relationships i don't know i mean a. relationship would obviously be nice not. something i'm seeking. at the moment wearing all these apps and. just for bdsm yeah just for videos just. for my king chat yeah yeah just for my. uh my kinks but uh i don't know i think. it's still nice to have like i like. meeting new people when hanging out with. new people and um.

like. uh. shagging that i guess but. but like just i think right now as well. it's a bit unfair for the other person. if i'm [ __ ] crossing their way and. all the rest of they have to be quite. understanding human being um. kids i think that's [ __ ] right now.

it's not in my. plans at all yeah but you're so [ __ ]. young yeah exactly like i'm 25 so it's. like. so i see all my friends having some of. my friends i've one pound's got four. kids um might say just me and it's like. africa's maybe i don't know but i don't. know speaking that much anymore it. became a dad and i didn't want anything. to do. that just reminds me of how like i'm. getting older but um. but yeah no like people are not getting. married and having kids on that that's. just like not my. my bag at all and again i don't have. anything wrong with that people like. doing their thing i suspect you'll meet.

someone that's what happened with me. where i was very much the type of person. where i was like it's not fair on them. i'm too busy my work comes first blah. blah blah blah and then i met someone. i've seen this a lot with especially. with some musicians that are like rock. stars like proper like you know rock. stars drugs. and they meet someone and they just. slept yeah because a lot of them going. out and doing stuff like is boredom yeah. that is a lot like i don't know i love a. [ __ ] night out a lot of times you're. like you'll be sitting about thursday. night wait wait tuesday [ __ ] night or. something and you've got nothing on.

wednesday and you're like. [ __ ] i said should we just go get a few. points and then you end up out and. you're [ __ ] unimaginable so it's like. i i can totally see that like that that. switch so i think nice because you're. being young yeah totally 100. points that's a big thing as well as. like. remembering that i'm in my 20s is a big. thing for me because sometimes i'm a bit. like. [ __ ] let's just get this done and like. don't not giving a [ __ ] like missing. birthdays and [ __ ] weddings and all. this [ __ ] funerals but i think it's. something that's important to remember.

my age and like. [ __ ] like like to actually take time for. life rather than. just. slave it but slaving away at work. we we have a closing tradition on this. podcast where the previous guest asks a. question to the next guest you might. have seen it before. um the previous guest asked you a. question but i'm actually going to ask. a follow-up question to this as well um. the question they left for you was not. knowing who they left it for was. kind of interesting question that they. left a few but would you rather win the. premier league win an oscar or headline.

glastonbury. i mean i think yeah that's great do you. know what actually. did she that i do think there's. something. unreal about like see being out she's. scoring like a great goal like a great. goal should do soccer aid yeah oh [ __ ]. man i'm sure you're football but i'll be. like a manager i'll stand and say later. in class but um. like the sound of it that. i've always thought [ __ ] that'd be the. best feeling ever like and that but i'm. a celtic fan so like old formed i'll be. like. scoring like a [ __ ] the winning goal.

90th minute [ __ ] whatever like that. must be unreal but obviously just. because i'm a musician i mean headlining. glastonbury so i'm gonna so i i kind of. that's why i knew it would be a bit of. an easier question for you so i'm gonna. ask a question which we mentioned. earlier on which was uh caused a bit of. eureka moment in your life which is. how are you doing. um. i'm good i think. um um definitely not uh. i think over the last last two or three.

weeks. i've really come back to like being. myself i think i was gonna be in a bit. of a. not like a rock like a funny patch. of the few weeks prior i think i was. maybe going out a bit too much. um. kind of feeling a bit dejected because. because we're just like this well as i. was talking about this long run up to. releasing this first single um thing. about dejected about that and stuff and. just overall just anxiety just like. really [ __ ] getting the better of me.

um but i think over the last like couple. of weeks of kind of. coming at the other end of it so i feel. pretty good i feel quite optimistic. cautiously optimistic um. but yeah it's still still there exactly. as i always do but i think. yeah i'm i'm very. i'm happy at the minute which is good. it's most i can ask for. operating at 80. it's a [ __ ] class. i can see the caution in the world which.

is just. but you know what i i couldn't be more. like i don't sit here and gas people up. or really [ __ ] them because i don't. really have to you can say other things. i genuinely. love your music thank you sure and uh i. and i really really mean that like i. genuinely sincerely mean that i've. watched your acoustic acoustic tracks on. you your covers on youtube of your own. songs yeah i've watched all of it and i. i couldn't be more excited to hear. whatever you do next and i'm not even. even as a fan of yours i'm not even.

anticipating it's going to be the same. as last time i'm actually just so. intrigued to hear. another. another lewis uh another when i say. another side just mean more lewis oh. yeah more from you because you know your. album was actually quite. i think because you have so many hits on. hits on there it can feel a little bit. short in hindsight yes you've played. i've played the song so many times so. i'm so excited for that and. um i also want to thank you generally. because it's so refreshing for someone. to be so unbelievably open and honest.

with thing with some of the issues you. talk about because you won't. you won't know until you know after this. conversation comes out how many people. you help by doing that. when jack came on and talked about his. health anxiety jack jack said online he. got thousands of messages a day of. people thanking him because there's not. enough people talking about it what's. the incentive to do so. um there's. there is an incentive but it doesn't. appear to be one it seems to be a. greater cost so thank you for that. because we need to have more of those. conversations and it's like. especially about therapy and being a man.

and. being open about your feelings and thank. you for doing this it's a huge honor. honestly thank you so much for having us. it's honestly so refreshing to actually. have a [ __ ]. on conversation and have conversations. about stuff because no one has ever. asked me. the questions that you've asked me today. so it's good to actually. talk i feel later great. quick one we have a brand new sponsor on. this podcast which i'm very excited to. tell you about they're a brand called. blue jeans by verizon and they are a. video conferencing and collaboration.

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you.