Lessons From 50 Of The Worlds Greatest Minds with Jake Humphrey | E59

this week on the diver ceo we have a. returning guest. jake humphreys he is an entrepreneur he. is a tv presenter. he's also now a podcaster and jake has. spent the last. year on his podcast sitting down with. some of the most high performance. people some of the most accomplished. people in their industries from. acting to business to sports you name it. and so because of that experience. because of all the insights he's gained. over the last year since we last spoke. i wanted to sit down with him and. compare notes.

we have a lot of high performance people. on this podcast too i wanted to. understand the similarities. i wanted to pick into the minds of some. of the guests and what he's learned from. them. how are they the same what makes them. different and that's what we're going to. talk about today so without further ado. i'm stephen bartlett and this is the. dire of a ceo. i hope nobody's listening but if you are. then please keep this to yourself.

you've um you've had what 30. people on your podcast today you've got. a lot more coming up. one of the key questions that i that i. wanted to ask you because it's you know. something that i asked myself. is what are those like key lessons that. you've learned you've interviewed. you know high performance athletes. actors. authors um and really sort of high. performance people. from all industries what are the key. lessons and the themes. i think there is one key lesson that was. summed up for me by.

matthew mcconaughey the oscar-winning. actor who came on my pod. recently and his phrase is don't leave. crumbs. and what he means by that is like when. you're making a decision. don't leave stuff behind don't make a. bad decision now that later on you've. got to go back and pick that crumb up. and be regretful about it and. that's brilliant because sometimes when. we talk on the podcast we talk about. really like big. blue sky thinking you know like we've. talked to you about social change. setting up social change sometimes to. people that are listening and that can.

seem like unreal almost untouchable. because it's this huge. multi-million dollar business that. you've created but actually. don't leave crumbs is about making the. decisions for a big. big business like that and creating. something amazing but also like. make sure that you don't have an extra. drink and even in case it leaves you. with a hangover tomorrow and you've got. work to do or make sure you. simply choose your clothes the night. before so you're not doing it in a rush. and. like i still leave crumbs all the time. like i'll tell you when we uh when we. interviewed matthew. like he's the first hollywood actor.

we've had on the pod so for me it was. quite a big moment. and i thought i really want to be. looking good for this so i thought i'd. have a shower and a shave before we do. the interview. and i was having a shave in the bathroom. my wife was in the bath. and she was going to come down and like. listen in the corner in my study because. she was like. she loves dallas buyers club she was. excited and uh. she starts having a shave and she goes. it's 9 54. i was like and i thought it was like 9. 30 or something we put the kids to bed. and then the next thing i'm running. downstairs i haven't done my hair.

properly. i'm on i've got two wi-fi zone because. our upload speed living in the. countryside is horrendous. so i was then on the wrong wi-fi i then. looked for the script i'd written for. the questions for matthew couldn't find. them. and i was like i was the last one in i'm. getting beaten to the interview on my. own podcast. by a hollywood actor and. i left crumbs and now that's a good. lesson for me because i do it all the. time and i think that. you only learn about the crumbs you. leave by doing it and i just. i just really want people i've had a few.

negative comments that have come my way. about the podcast. direct messages from people saying um. you're getting this all wrong we're in a. global pandemic i'm having a really hard. year. and here you are with a podcast that's. just celebrating success all the time. and showing up. how um how we're all doing badly. compared to your great guests. and for me the podcast is a that hurts. me to think that. because i don't want anyone to come to. the high performance podcast and leave. in that way but it's the absolute total. opposite.

of that because when we talk about what. lessons can you learn from people on the. podcast. the other biggest one is they mess up. all the time i think. i genuinely believe successful people. make more mistakes than anybody else. because they're. constantly challenging themselves to do. stuff and you you're no stranger to. making. decisions that at the time you just. simply don't know. but you have to find a way of making. that decision um. and i'm sure there are times when you've. made 10 or 15. life-changing decisions in a week you. know the the the point about those.

crumbs. and you know rushing down the stairs. when you realize that you were like what. could you have done in hindsight to. um to prevent those crumbs being left. behind per se i just need to be really. honest with myself that i have. weaknesses and i need to address them. rather than thinking that everything's. fine and i am. notoriously late i am always a few. minutes late and always my new year's. resolution is this is the year. that i'm not going to be late is but it. just i'm surprised you know that you're. late. because um the industry you work in i.

know. it's very and look at all the guests. i've had on my podcast we had um sir. clive woodward who won the rugby world. cup. and you think of all of the discipline. and the rules and the mindsets you need. to win. a rugby world cup the number one thing. that stands out for him is something. called lombardi time which was created. by the players. and they lombardi obviously is a famous. name in american sports and they call it. lombardi time because it's a name that. sort of resonates. with winning and it was 10 minutes early. so if you say to any former england. rugby player what's lombardi time. they'll tell you 10 minutes early so.

listen. i'm hearing this stuff steven on a. weekly basis and still not getting it. right and i think it just goes to show. that we are human we have. we are fallible and i do think we have. blind spots which. there are some things some people find. really hard i don't there are some. things that is not an issue for other. people. and it is a recurring problem for me to. deal with. but no one's perfect and how do you. emotionally feel. about the fact that you have blind spots. in terms of like. do you beat yourself up about it yeah. yeah i think so.

yeah um i think it's a really common. phrase isn't it to hear that you're your. own biggest critic. i think i'm probably less my own biggest. critic. than i was previously like when i. first started in my presenting career. and i used to come off air on the. formula one. i would solely focus on the bad stuff. on the issues on the problems and that. was instilled in me by david coulthard. because he'd step straight out of a. formula one car. straight into broadcasting and.

tv is a friendly and lovely place to be. most of the time. you know we're really good at telling. each other how great we are and we had. our first production meeting. just after the first race and i was just. grateful to get through it it was my. first ever bit of. live formula one so i was just glad to. have survived so i was ready for this. lovely you were great you were great you. were great this was great. we started the meeting and david. coulthard went well sorry. can we just stop and that this is. unheard of he goes. i'm just not interested in this and the. producer was like sorry.

i don't understand he's like i'm not. interested in sitting here and going. through all the good stuff. how does going through the good stuff. make the boat go faster. why are we not talking about the bad. stuff and that was a revelation from me. i was like yes the good stuff's already. good so you focus on the good stuff. now i have a different mindset and. bearing in mind. my first race was 2009 so this is 11. years ago. and for a long time my focus was on. the stuff that i was struggling with or. the stuff i wasn't very good at.

or the times where i didn't feel life. was very good so i would look at a bad. month or a bad year and go right. why was i not flowing why was i not. really in a happy place why was this. why don't we focus more on the good. stuff and that is my mindset change that. is the thing that i. for 2021 that is going to be my focus. let's focus on the good stuff so we. realize what the good stuff is just do. more of it let's focus on the times when. you were flowing and when you were. feeling great. when you were barreling around the place. and when you were the guy and when.

everyone wanted to work with you. what was i doing what was i eating how. was i sleeping. who was i spending my time with what was. feeding me what was making me feel. fantastic. that's probably a better place to focus. on i particularly after the sort of crap. 2020 we've all had. i feel we've become a nation maybe even. a planet. with this light obsession on failure. to not fail anymore to be good and it's. almost like a badge of honor isn't it. like i'm sure if. you said to me three or four months ago.

how's your relationship with failure my. love failure. love faith bring failure on that's how i. learn failures where i grow. i need to be on the absolute edge so i'm. failing all the time i want to fail. forwards and i want to fail often. like i still do but when i fail when i. leave crumbs when i'm late for an. interview with matthew mcconaughey. i'm not thinking why did that happen. because then i'm focusing on the failure. i will allow it to be there. and i will do my best not to do it again. but i'm gonna try for 2021 to think. about the good stuff man and just to see.

how that changes things for me. super interesting you know do you focus. on your failure. um i i don't focus on the failure i. think i was just i was. actually asking myself that question. when you were talking i was thinking do. i am i someone that dwells on failure to. be fair i don't. i'm very very good at being detached. from it all i think i talked earlier in. this podcast about. this like um video game mentality that. i've taken on my life where. i see my my worst days.

and to be honest a lot of them no i. think it's just my worst days as. if i'm playing a video game and that i. am. i am not what's happening and it's and i. i think that detachment from what's. happening. has allowed me in my most chaotic. moments. to remain calm it's allowed me to form a. sort of calm within my chaos so. if i have a big failure or i really. really [ __ ] up and i'm i'm disappointed. with myself or whatever. i'm very good at detaching from that um. so i think i think the absolute.

absolute ownership of what you're doing. for me is powerful which is. is that the total opposite of what. you're saying because like whatever i do. i have to absolutely believe it and own. that decision because then if it goes. wrong or people question it i can say. listen i. really thought it was the right thing. it's like the emotional detachment it. means that. i'm not i don't think that i'm going to. die although i am totally responsible. for changing it so i can think of i'm. thinking. specifically about the day where um i. was driving to work. get get the emails and the text messages. saying that our whole server's been. hacked and every client we have has been.

sent really. really personal specific abuse by them. from our email server. that's come from my business partner's. email that looks like it was meant to be. sent to my assistant. but the client was just accidentally ccd. and this happened this happened about. four years ago five years ago. so i'm driving to work and i'm getting. all these and in that moment. one has a choice whether they want to. fall into the problem and become the. problem and become consumed by it. or if they want to hold it out in front. of them and deal with it there. yeah if it consumes me i'll be crippled.

with anxiety crying in the corner. but if i can hold it out in front of me. and realize that this isn't gonna kill. me this isn't gonna end me. yeah this isn't you know but this is. something that i have to deal with out. in front of me. then it becomes much more um possible to. be rational. and to think in terms of probabilities. and i've come to learn especially over. the last year or two. that when you can um make your decisions. based on probabilities of the outcome. you can make really really good. decisions yeah um. you know i was thinking a good example. of that is actually um.

a friend of mine yesterday texts me and. he said to me. that it's interesting he said to me that. at his marketing agency. his clients passwords have maybe been. exposed to one outside individual. so there's one guy another company that. might have seen all of his clients. passwords. and he said steve i'm going to call all. of my clients now and tell them that all. of their passwords have been exposed. so i said let's go through the. probabilities here if you lined up a. hundred people. like the guy that might have seen these.

passwords how many of them. would do something malicious with that. information we both agreed it was. probably less than one percent. of like reputable people that would take. a bunch of passwords and do something. malicious. so i said okay so one person out of 100. or less so your probability of harm is. less than one percent. um what's the probability of harm if you. call all of your clients and tell them. that. all of their passwords have been leaked. probably greater than one percent. yeah so let's think about ways we can. get that less than one percent down to. like zero so i said.

email all your clients and tell them. you've done a security review. and that um you you highly recommend. they all turn on two-factor. authentication today. and that means the probability of harm. goes from less than one percent to zero. and but he was like in the in the. emotional mindset he was just like i'm. going to call them all yeah apologize. because you probably felt a duty of care. but if you do the two-step. authentication i suppose you're still. it's like you zero yeah yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah music to zero percent. it's a duty you're balancing their duty. of care and you know how do i. remove harm from my clients but also.

remove harm from my business but he was. so emotional when he called me. that he wasn't thinking rationally yeah. and that's why holding it out in front. of you allows you to think in terms of. rational employment. perspective that perspective is so. important to have like. i've always had like this irrational. fear of imminent disaster. so when i was a kid i used to come in. from school my mom would go and walk the. dog and she might be 15 or 20 minutes. most kids would just watch cartoons. i would be like out the window after 10. minutes singing where's my mom. where's my mom and then these little. voices come in my head all maybe. something really bad's happened to her. maybe she's like slipped over and banged.

her head and. or maybe she's lying in a field right i. might have to go and find one my mum is. and then she reappears i'm like oh thank. goodness. even now with my kids if i'm out someone. they go around the corner i don't just. think to myself i'll walk around the. corner and my kids will be there. until i can see my kids again and there. might be parents listening to this that. relate. the worst possible things that could. happen to one's children is a. is happening to my kids until i can see. them so i find myself like speeding up. or saying to my friends yeah hey let's. go and sit over here so we can keep. just literally so i can keep an eye on.

the kids and then i'm a little bit of a. hypochondriac so i fear that and then. when my phone goes. and or someone sends me a message going. hey jake can we have a chat later like. it could be someone from. whisper or it could be someone from bt. sport or someone about the pod. i don't go yeah yeah cool i'll call you. later i'm like oh what could that be. my brain goes to worst case scenario and. i found myself really quickly going so. it's got a really important call to make. my heart's racing 10 to the dozen and. then as soon as i. if i find out what it is i'm like oh. thank goodness where does this come from. i don't know. because there is no skeleton in the.

closet like a friend rang me the other. day. and the message that you gave me was. he's separating from his wife. which is massively sad but he rang me. and said listen i'm really sorry to call. you with this um. quite awkward news i'm immediately. thinking oh my goodness right. what on earth can this be but in my head. it's gonna end everything it's gonna. cost me my marriage my kids. my job my house isn't that ridiculous. but. i now have the perspective that i know. this is how i am i've had this since i. was like 11 or 12 years old. i know this is how i'm made so that is a.

really powerful thing for me because i. then think. when i feel this feeling beginning like. when my kids go around the corner i now. say to myself listen. your kids are going to be fine playing. the other side of a tree. you know yourself well enough to know. that this is just a rational anxiety. it's your brain. and it's just playing a trick on you. that's all this is you talk a lot about. responsibility yeah. um there you just said this is how i'm. made yeah. that sounds like giving up. responsibility yeah yeah so. now i think i'm taking i yes you're.

right you are totally right. but then i feel like i'm taking the resp. i'm slowly still learning even at 42. i'm taking the responsibility back by. saying right i'm not going to allow. myself to get anxious about that. because i know what i'm like if i'm the. most chilled out person in the world and. i find a reason to be anxious maybe i. should be worried about that. i'm going to tell them about the lift. jake. so we're on the fourth floor here and uh. jake jake came up uh. knocked on the door looking pretty. sweaty and said uh i just took breath. he said i just took the stairs because i.

opened the lift and i didn't trust it. this lift there's never been any. problems with it if you look at the. stats around deaths in lifts or things. you and me are not hanging out today. that seems somewhat connected to what. you're saying. yeah i think you're probably right yeah. maybe i should have taken the lift. because i know that everything will be. fine in the lift and i should know that. i'm a bit claustrophobic but. i think it just goes to show that again. and you've spoken about this so. powerfully over the years on your. podcast is that from the outside world.

you look at someone like me and think. wow. a couple of kids few businesses great. house nice broadcasting career. what a lovely carefree life he must live. every day man is riddled with little. anxieties and little worries. um a few years ago probably almost to. the point of derailing as we've. discussed on your previous. podcast with me but now knowing myself. knowing yourself is so powerful because. only then. like can you love yourself you think. that's also somewhat linked that you. said earlier on about that comment you.

read. where people are like jake you know you. shouldn't be doing a podca happy. podcasting sad times basically. yeah the fact that you remembered that. and you referred to it as hurting you. seems also somewhat correlated to this. yeah i think. i don't know i think it's a i think it's. a it's a fair point. i find that a harder thing to get i find. external criticism. is a harder thing for me to deal with i. find that more. i find that a more difficult um thing to. own in my head why.

um i think because probably human beings. just want people to like what we're. doing. i mean i find it confusing as well. because i think if you're being offended. by. my high performance podcast like. wow that that shows the level of offence. that some people can take because i. really want i honestly. want it to just be a holy positive. experience from the moment that someone. clicks subscribe or starts listening to. the pod to the minute they leave i just. i just want people to be happier to get.

takeaways to live a more empowered life. to go and be successful i honestly. believe it like. it comes you've got thousands and. thousands and thousands of reviews on. your podcast yeah it's rated five stars. people pour their heart out telling you. how much they love it how much value it. brings. and we're talking about this one guy i'm. a human i suppose am i. i think you slightly over index a little. bit in terms of caring about this stuff. though. and i i actually you know when people. asked you know what you're like after. meeting you i said he's just such a nice. guy such a good guy. and you are such a good guy and it it's.

maybe that is part of i don't know is. that somewhat connected to. your i think so don't you think that. don't you think the two are completely. connected though that. if i wasn't the kind of guy that. genuinely wanted people to. you know be in a better place i wouldn't. give a [ __ ] whether someone said my. podcast was useless i'd be like well i. don't care anything i'm just doing it to. make some money. for me that podcast and i will openly. say this i've not made a penny from. creating and operating for an entire. year. and we talk all the time that this is.

about the outcome not the income. and and i think the reason why it has. been successful. is that whether it's me or whether it's. damien or whether it's the guys that. help us to film and edit the podcast. together. all of us totally believe and buy into. what we're doing like i genuinely. think that it is what people need to. hear. because it is empowering people and do. great things who have been. you know a lot of my friends messaged me. after you had johnny wilkinson yeah. and they said that was [ __ ] weird it. was deep wasn't it i had to listen to.

that back five times and i did the. interview. you know what was the remark i haven't. heard it what was the surprising. so the the bravery really from from. someone who. won a rugby world cup as a certain. person and now is a completely different. person. i mean i can give you like a sort of. salacious headline like he told us that. winning the rugby world cup. is no more important than doing the. washing up and the. the way that he squares that off in his. mind is he says what are you doing if. you're playing rugby.

moving your body to achieve a goal what. you're doing if you're doing the washing. up. moving your body to achieve a goal and. if i make winning the rugby world cup. more important or to hold more value. than doing the washing up and i'm no. longer a rugby player what am i less. valuable because i'm no longer doing the. thing that was more important. that was the that is the sort of. sentence that he was. sharing with us which i think is. brilliant and brave and i can. relate to it and i and i can understand. it um. [Music]. but i think that for me the sort of the.

real the real. revelation that came out of the johnny. wilkinson episode and what i really want. people to understand if they listen to. it. is that when you strip everything back. he is someone who has. totally changed from where he was when. he was conquering the world because when. he was conquering the world as a rugby. player. he thought he had to stress and struggle. and sacrifice. and fail and now he realizes that. stressing. and struggling and sacrificing and.

failing leads to. more stress and struggle and sacrifice. and fail. and actually one of the amazing things. he said he said when i. released a book after winning the rugby. world cup i wouldn't be surprised if. there wasn't a spike in mental health. cases from people that read that book. because the book was saying. you've got a struggle you've got a. struggle you've got to you've got to. really. struggle in life to be successful and i. think that that is something that i. when we first started the high. performance podcast. i loved it when people spoke to me about.

the battle and the struggle and the. strife and the sacrifice and the late. nights and the early starts. because i wanted people at home to go. yeah man i'm gonna work harder. i'm gonna commit more i'm gonna. sacrifice more. now i think that is so so so wrong that. is the total antithesis. of what i now the message i now want my. podcast to give to people. it's tough isn't it because it's hard to. find someone who's been. really successful at the very top of. their game whether it's business or.

sport. hasn't done that yeah so i've contended. with this i've like contended mentally. with this idea as well. well again when i started putting. content out there especially when i was. really young like 18. i was bragging about how late i was. staying up i was like look at me at 4. a.m and i'm still working. and i was doing that because i was. trying to portray an image that i was i. don't know. a superhuman or something and my content. followed that theme. and then i got to the point where i. probably flipped the other way because. of public pressure and people's and the. the world now thinks that if you go on. the high performance podcast and say.

hard work really really matters you will. take an l. you are an [ __ ] for saying that. because you're going to make people. depressed and anxious and you're a. hustle porn star. and then i got to another place which is. if it's the truth. it's the truth and i'm comfortable with. the truth and so. there's so many levels of nuance it's. like. the most successful people you'll. encounter at the very top of their. industries. worked like hell to get there yeah yeah. yeah. it's you know will smith you know.

circlive woodward or um any anyone in it. that's a very consistent theme elon musk. right. but it but what i've come to do over the. years is detach that from happiness. first and foremost because it doesn't. necessarily mean they're happier. and then also redefine what success is. because success. can be being a great parent yeah or is. it to you then. i it has to be happiness i feel like. yeah that's my answer yeah. that has to be because you can still.

have. the hard work and you can still have the. sacrifice. but you don't have the struggle that's. the that is the mistake i made i thought. the struggle was part of the hard work. and it was part of the early starts and. the late finishes and it was part of. sacrificing some things. that's what i thought the high. performance podcast was about but it. isn't you're totally right it's about. happiness and you can still. get up at five like i probably take too. much on. and i probably get up early than i need. to and i go to bed later than i need to. but i am so happy and that's what it has.

to be. and it can't be happiness at the. detriment of others happiness yeah it. has to be. being happy content with yourself and. spreading that happiness and that again. is something that johnny wilkinson spoke. about which. for me has been one of the biggest. revelations being absolutely present. absolutely totally present so when i'm. here with you. my phone is down on the floor and it's. actually on silent but it should be off. because. i need to be totally present with you. right now. because what's happened is gone what's. yet to happen which is me going off to.

do a game at bt sport. is a story i can write that in my head. if i like but i'm probably going to get. it wrong because it hasn't happened yet. exactly the way the day's going to go. so i need to like look you in the eye. right now and i can now promise you that. on this podcast. i am absolutely here with you and it. might be in half an hour i leave but. that's cool because. when then we're done and i'm then. traveling. and then i'm totally present and i'm. into that that is a really important. thing. that has again been a mindset change for. me on the high performance podcast and. maybe.

now i sit and talk to you maybe this. whole thing is like a totally selfish. exercise for me because. i must have said four or five times that. this podcast has. rewritten the way that i see the world. and the way that i operate. and i think maybe maybe i want this. podcast. to be messages to my kids like i talk. already about my anxiety. probably another of my anxieties is how. much longer am i going to be on the. earth you never know what's around the. corner. i love the fact that if it all ended for. me as a walk out onto shoreditch. high street today and a car comes along.

what. can my wife say to my kids that oh i. don't know my dad very well listen to. these 25 episodes listen to these 30. episodes of the high performance podcast. there's your dad that's him you walk out. here today then. yeah touch glass um and bus comes boom. yeah it's over what are the things you. you in. you would regret not having done more of. uh traveling with the kids probably but. they're only little they're only young. it's. such a hard question for me because.

i think i think probably um. maintaining relationships with people. has always been an issue for me. because i i failed my a-levels as you. know at school so all my mates went off. to uni so that was kind of lost because. they went off having fun and i redid. them and then. i've always found that one of the issues. with trying to really be present. is that you're totally present in that. part of your world at that moment. and so i was then totally plugged into. life on children's bbc. and then i got this amazing opportunity. at formula one and i was totally plugged.

into my life. in formula one and then i got you know a. big opportunity at bt sport and i had to. make that work so then i was totally. plugged into my new producers. and my my new colleagues and you know i. had a conversation with someone the. other day and they said you know like. who. you who are your real friends. it's a hard question that for me once i. moved beyond my wife. because i've got four or five mates who. i'm close. with but they're i would probably name.

people that live on my street well i've. only lived there for four years. i might name a couple of parents on the. school run my kids have only gone to. that school for four years. i'd name a couple of people i've run my. production company whisper with but. that's only been going less than a. decade. i'd now probably class damian hughes and. i do the high performance podcast with. well i've done that for less than a year. but i'm in this and maybe that is. possibly the only regret i think but. maybe i don't need.

i don't know maybe we don't need to hold. on to people for too long maybe we have. to accept that people come and go from. our lives and that's okay. and do you think it's because you you. haven't sort of perhaps you said like. you haven't. prioritized investing in those. relationships as much. i think it's because i'm always too. invested in the thing that i'm doing at. that moment. like i am so absolutely committed to. whisper coral eyewear the high. performance podcast. bt sport my kids.

my wife and my family. there isn't an awful lot left right i. guess the question the better question. to ask. would be then but you're are you happy. because that if that is the ultimate. goal. then you know society will tell you to. live have loads of friends and do this. and have this car and whatever but then. the question the most important is be. happy happiest i've ever been. i've been the happiest i've ever been. yeah so you've got to be doing something. right right yeah. i think yeah i mean i i love what i do.

like i really. like work i like getting up early. i like having five or six things on the. burn all the time i like having a. whole page of jobs that i'm gonna do. other people are not like that my wife. is the. opposite she's got four or five jobs. she's like oh man i feel so stressed i. got. i don't want all this stuff whereas. sometimes i sit there and i'm not making. a list of. big things on the horizon and i'm i need. to have a lot of them. and again maybe i give a c to everything. and i'd be better to have fewer things.

and give them more than an. a matthew mcconaughey tells a great. story about cutting off two of his big. businesses because he was giving a b. to five things and he wanted to be an a. in three things the guests you've had on. your podcast all these wonderful people. you've met. do you sometimes get the impression that. some of them aren't. that happy yes. yeah um it's one of the things i've. learned from doing this as well. yeah it's really interesting and and i. totally get that everyone is.

everyone is in it for different reasons. aren't they. like we spoke to sean wayne who and i. would say. you know sean wayne is not a household. name he's one of the most successful. rugby league managers in the uk. but if someone wanted to get into the. high performance podcast and they wanted. like a first podcast to listen to. don't just go for the big names i'm. telling you now. sean wayne gave us the most moving and. revelatory interview and. he in his sort of broad northern accent.

he said. you don't i'm not bothered about being. happy he said i'm not not. happy i don't care about happy and that. was not you know happiness was not his. thing he's con. as soon as he achieved something within. moments it's about the next thing. and we sort of broke it down that he was. very badly abused by his dad as a kid. you know physically. punched in the face by a big man often. and that his entire life his entire. energy comes from wanting to redress the. balance and he's now a rugby league. coach.

the the england rugby league coach. because he. he has this deep-seated desire to make. the lives of other people better. now he might personally never be happy. after the story that and the path that. he's been through. but he's definitely making other people. happy and he is also. totally comfortable with not being happy. now that's not everyone's story that's. his story. um but i certainly think that.

we like in the past we've thought that. success and happiness are mutually. exclusive what do you want to be here. and be successful you can be happy. how wrong are we to think like that the. very. flame of success should be happiness. that should be the. absolute nub the crux of everything. what's the point otherwise man. what is the point i i get that a lot. with guests that i've had on. they seem to some guests seem to be very. neurotically obsessed with.

the next thing and the next thing and. the next thing in the next thing and. when you ask them to pause and reflect. on hey when this ends or. um or why they're doing it it always. seems to flick back to their childhood. eddie ham was the was the same um i know. he's been on yours he was on mine last. week. and he uh when i was talking to him. about his aspirations for the future. with matroom he says i want to sell for. five billion and. we'll do this and we're gonna there and. i said why do you wanna sell for five. billion you're happy now he goes. he goes well you know we should be doing. we could we should be selling five. billion that's why i want to do it. but why does that matter and he goes and. he goes back to his dad when he's.

younger he goes back to the fact that. his dad. used to criticize him and didn't give. him praise and it's. and it's weird that those early moments. have driven so and it's the same with me. to be honest. they drove this like obsessive desire to. just keep climbing a never-ending. mountain. and that's the trend that i've seen in. very successful guests and very. successful people. is often some kind of. it's a strange thing to say but. something that went not to plan. yeah when they're younger seems to be.

the reason that we all adore them admire. them it's something that had hit them. in their emotions or their wiring that. sent them into an obsessive state. in in never as good as you think it. would be though you know when you get. when you achieve those things that you. want to achieve like. the the biggest thrill i've ever had was. when i spent 9. 750 pounds on a green mgf it's my first. ever car. i could still remember the number plate. njn and i looked at that car. i bought it from an elderly gentleman in. colchester and i went to his house.

and i said i've got a banker's draft and. i was working on children's bbc. he took me out to his garage and you. know those old like um. fluorescent light strips they flicker. come on i remember it's still on my head. as vivid as the day it happened the. light flicking. and just lighting the car up for a. second and then it goes and i looked at. it and i was like. i cannot believe now fast forward to. where i am now. you know a successful tv presenter. invested in coral eyewear run a podcast.

um have two beautiful children um. who have a production company the kids. and my personal relationships are aside. from this because that is that is on a. deeper level than anything else but in. terms of material successes. nothing and i mean nothing man nothing. has come close to spending less than 10. grand. on a green mgf so you've got to enjoy. the journey you've got to enjoy the. travel because a. it's not as good when you get there as. you think it will be b.

you spend an awful lot more time getting. there than arriving. like you have to answer this totally. honestly. you have you've totally left social. change now yeah. with money in the bank yeah that you. wouldn't have had if you hadn't walked. away from that business right. yeah what is more thrilling to you to. look at your bank. account now and see the number in the. bank account or to know the journey you. went on the social chain. oh yeah of course i mean the bank could. be double triple quadruple.

ten times it wouldn't matter now if i. said to you if i came to you in. manchester when you went to nab. frozen pizza just to feed yourself and i. said listen dude you can either. absolutely work your nuts off for the. next 10 years. like build a business hang out with. people develop some good relationships. or. i'll just bang 100 mill in your bank. account today. there you go yeah and now here you are. you've got 100 mil and the thrill came. from. the journey there's something like i'm. always conscious of my own like. hindsight bias. because it seems to be the case that.

every. broke person um goes on the journey to. get rich you know. that ends up being successful they get. the money they go it doesn't matter but. it's a wonderful thing to say when you. have you right like. part of the reason it doesn't matter is. because there's so much of it now it. really mattered when i was stealing. those pizzas right and when i was like. going behind the sofas in this pub. looking for the pound coins and i found. 13 pound coins so i went back the next. day and. like it really really mattered in fact. it was all that mattered you know. in that moment so i'm super conscious of. that bias that we have because. um and you should be by the way and we. we are the same.

on high performance when i say or you. know you need to have the bad times to. appreciate the good times and. um the the the traumas and the difficult. things will. will equip you for the rest of your life. i honestly. know that there are people that would. listen and go hold on a minute middle. class. white guy from a lovely village in. norfolk yeah you've had a few. issues with mental health and bullying. and that as you know the death of my. grandma. which was quite tragic and things like. that you haven't really.

struggled yeah so then i think it's. important that. we uh we've done an interview that we. haven't put out yet for the podcast with. ceo khaleesi. first ever black spring box captain. and he tells us a story in the podcast. about not being able. to sleep at night because his stomach. hurts so much because he was so hungry. so his grandmother. gave him sugar water just to get him to. school so he could have a day at school. and she died in his arms at eight years. old when he sits on the podcast. and says he will go through some really.

dark and difficult horrendous times you. know he grew up. in the most deepest poverty you could. imagine in south africa when he sits. there and goes. you can get through it and you can use. it as a flame and a fire. that is i think when you listen um. it's um i i have to say i also. completely agree that uh. you know the things that have mattered. most to me professionally especially as. i reflect have been. doing as you say doing work i love but. then like doing it with people i love. um and a mission that's worthwhile and.

there's just always. people talk about this topic of burnout. a lot um. and i tend to believe and i'd like to. get your opinion on this i tend to. believe that. your burnout is somewhat inevitable if. you're doing things. that you don't intrinsically love doing. especially if you're doing it with. people you don't. you know really really love as well and. i feel like in any facet of your life if. you're doing it. too much you don't enjoy it the outcome. is burn out. um but is burn out a topic that's been. sort of. prevalent on your podcast no you know it.

i suppose. partly the reason why burnout hasn't. come up very often is because we're. talking to people who are in the midst. of their successes or who have been. successful. and they love what they're doing and. they love what they're doing they're. full of passion whereas. people who have perhaps tried to do. something that wasn't quite right and. have suffered burnout and it hasn't. worked. we we don't know about them because the. burnout ended the dream but it's so. funny that's such a good point. that the fact that your pod you haven't. had that come up as a topic on a podcast. that speaks to people. who have clearly been intrinsically.

driven by their passion to the very top. of their game. passion is everything you know you say. you spoke to eddie hearn what's his. what's his podcast no passion no point i. mean he is a great advocate. of finding something that you believe in. but i also get that. again you had a real passion for what. you do like i honestly. like i have a such a deep love and a. passion for all the things that i'm. involved in because if i didn't. then i wouldn't do them or i'd try and. find something else but there were times. in my life where i've done certain. things like i don't.

as a tv presenter you often get asked to. do like corporates you know standing up. at awards and things like that and you. you need to welcome people. on stage and shake your hands have a. photo and i. i find them a real struggle i don't know. why i just don't get. a thrill out of doing those things so. that's a good thing for me because i. i've noticed that's something i don't. like and that for people that are. listening to this thinking you know what. what's my passion like what am i one of. one of the. really good ways of finding you is to. look at all the things that is not you. who are the people that don't make you.

feel good what are the days when you. feel. drained and exhausted what are the the. trips or the phone calls or the. conversations or the lunches where you. leave thinking. every time i see that person i feel like. this if you can see the. see the stuff that isn't good for you. and strip that stuff away you will. eventually. and it might take a while be left with. who you are and that's the time to. really then think right. what am i about what am i as a person. because. i don't think you you can obviously get. tired and you can be in and you can.

have problems but i think with real. passion i don't think you suffer burnout. because every day i seem to get this. like. so you've not got kids yet right but. when you do you have argument you have a. beautiful feet remember when my daughter. was born i love her with every. piece of my heart right i had this real. fear that when my son was born. where's the love going to come from yeah. no you do there's a feed that is. it's a quite common thing for parents. like my daughter had every single. bit of love in my body so my wife.

obviously would. we're really super close but love for. your child is so different. it feels very different from the moment. that child is born and i could not have. loved my daughter. not one percent more so then my son is. about to be born. my daughter's gone off to the. grandparents and i'm watching my wife in. labour thinking. i've got nothing left for for sebastian. what's this about. sebastian's born and within two seconds. i love him equally so there's no.

diminishing of the love for my daughter. not one bit. but all this new love has just appeared. out of nowhere. and i could love my son exactly the same. how is that possible and it is exactly. the same when you have a real passion or. a real. love for something like every day that i. get up and i'm making. phone calls or i'm having conversations. or i'm you know brainstorming or blue. sky thinking or thinking about guests or. heading to do live television. it's all filler it's filled up again i'm. full i'm ready to go. you know i don't feel like i'm like the.

cup is draining slowly. because i love the stuff that i'm doing. and that's a great point because i think. people tend to believe that. passion is a singular thing yeah and. then they're searching for it aimlessly. like it's an easter egg hidden somewhere. yeah. and that you can drain you can't drain. your passion yeah you can have multiple. passions. yeah and you know you've met a ton of. you know high-profile people on your you. know from your. from your presenting career but also. from your podcast i'm sure you've come. across a bunch of [ __ ] as well.

yes i'm not gonna ask you to i'm not. gonna ask you to name them holly tucker. on her podcast came out with her you. know what it's like. she created not on the highstreet.com. she said i'd rather have a hole. than an [ __ ] in other words. i would rather hang out with no one than. hang out with someone that i don't like. which i. which i thought was uh which i thought. was a good one but then matthew. mcconaughey said. do you want an [ __ ] or an idiot give. me the [ __ ] because at least you know. where you stand. really yeah so he was like at least and.

i i do. relate to that somewhat the people that. i really struggle with in my life are. the people who. one day you see them and they're like. your best mate the next day it's like. you've never met them before. i do struggle with that i i like to know. where i stand with people i'm cool. if you want if you and me want to have. like a distant professional relationship. and you'll send me a text. saying happy new year i hope the podcast. goes well maybe hook up sometime in 2021. and we never see each other socially and. you come back on high performance i come. back on here and we. use to and throw a bit professionally.

that's absolutely. that is cool what i don't want is. hey let's have a coffee do you let's. meet up in london yeah great oh man it's. so nice to see you so how's things how's. life. we chat a bit more have you got a. partner how's your dog as your life. and then you hear nothing for six months. and you think whatever happened to that. dude. and then they reappear again i'm so. sorry for not texting you back. there's the truth i feel like you're. shouting um there's the. there's the difficult thing for me not. knowing where i stand with people i you. know i don't want to be everyone's best. friend but i do want.

meaningful relationships with people and. they can be meaningful. from a distance or super intense. on that point of arseholes as well i. think um what made you what made you ask. that. i just i just one of the things i i. could you know what it is i remembered. one day. you meet a lot of people and when you do. this podcasting thing and you you have. an initial perception of how they're. going to be. and then you meet them and sometimes you. know sometimes they're souls i actually. don't think i've had anyone on the. podcast that was an [ __ ] but i have. had experiences. i remember this one day i got in this.

plane i think i was flying emirates or. virgin or something. um and in front of me i saw that guy. from. the food guy the guy that eats all the. food on tv someone give me his name oh. um. yeah yeah yeah yeah um everyone in the. podcast. man versus food guy yeah man versus food. i mean i don't know his name. yeah and i don't care about saying this. um and we. run this huge food channel at social. change so we have you know tens of. millions of followers on a food channel. so i text the food team and i'm like oh. my god he's on the plane they said i'll.

go up go up and ask him a question which. is a question we always ask us. on our food channel so i went over to. ask him this question. he was sat in um business i sat in. business as well. and he's just he just he looks at me and. goes. listen give me a second okay and i'm. like whoa. so i walk back to my my chair and i have. to tell the 500 people. in this like company group oh so i went. up to him and this person that you all. absolutely love. i've he's just cussed me out um and he.

will never know the impact he had. on me or the 500 people that i then told. and also the you know. hundreds of thousand people that i'm. telling right now um if you got to the. point though where you're brave enough. to call that sort of stuff out. because i think that is the important. thing when he's when he does it. to his face yeah for me that would be. like. ego because you go from you yeah it. would be like do you know who the [ __ ] i. am or it'd be like. why are you saying that for me the piece. was like. no reaction yeah because there was no. win there was no win.

in me calling him out i wasn't going to. win so the win for me was saying okay no. worries and we're going back to my chair. and also not letting it ruin my day um. but. but i'm sure you the reason i asked you. the question is because you have tons of. guests. in your presenting career but also your. podcast when you encounter an [ __ ]. um i guess how'd you deal with it. you just know that you're there for a. stop and not stay i think and you. um does it break your heart a little bit. sometimes. um when it's someone that you uh admired.

yeah i suppose so i suppose i don't. worry too much about it because i just. think you know what. you can you're just not for me and also. like. who am i to sort of judge whether their. behavior is arseholery if it's clearly a. rude and unfair and unkind absolutely. i i now feel like i'm 42 and i'm a. parent. and i want my kids to operate in a world. where. um they can be themselves and they can't. be.

bullied or pushed around i think we're. i'm old enough now and i definitely. wasn't like this a few years ago where i. can hold my chin. up and say that behavior is really not. acceptable would you call someone yeah. you would but i wouldn't do it in an. arrogant look at me i'm a being a dick. where i just say listen. i just think that behavior isn't. acceptable and have you done that um. yeah. to someone someone i work with you. in your presenting career uh yeah name. and address. and actually do you know what you find.

is that often i've done it twice and. both times they've gone. yeah i'm really sorry that is actually. unacceptable i mean we. we had an interesting experience because. my wife used to work in production. so heard she was a production secretary. which is not very high up the ladder of. people in television and i was a. presenter so. she would be looking after security. taxis. tickets logistics clothing. call times all the stuff that makes. television happen. but is not the glamorous side and the.

number of times. i would say i met this person today. aren't they great and she'd be like. really and then we would meet those. people. and i'd be like oh yeah i think you know. my wife harriet. and they were like oh right yeah hi. because they would be you guys love to. come around sometime for some food and. harry's like that's. not how they were really when they. thought i was just sorting out their. travel. and that is the definition of an article. yes i think it is because you just treat. everyone the same man. and they're treating you well because.

you can potentially benefit them in some. way. i don't know it's weird isn't it like. why i've got a job on the television why. treat me any differently because you're. all connected and you can. that is what really annoys me we see. that and i saw that in my business over. the years and i. i came to believe that even with me. leaving the business it won't break the. business. but i do believe that like so i believe. one person leaving a business doesn't. break it and you can apply this to your. relationships your life your friendship. circle. but an [ __ ] staying can me leaving. the business i don't actually think will.

be as detrimental to a couple of. [ __ ] staying in the business not. that there are any but. um i know what you mean yeah don't you. think though. like this is like it sounds naive and. churlish and a bit. childish probably from a 42 year old. bloke that has a. decent career and runs a few businesses. but like i honestly think that we. do have the power to make the world. positive and happy. despite all the issues because all you. have to do is worry about your immediate. circle. and that is why i get frustrated with.

people who spread negativity and. criticism and i just i've just got no. space in my life now for negativity from. people. because i just think if let's say that i. know seven people. and i just say you know i'm gonna really. radiate. a positive energy i'm gonna lift them up. i'm not gonna be critical i'm gonna do. everything i can to make them feel like. a million dollars. the only agreement is that they have to. do the same. and you say that to those people listen. i'm going to do this thing i'm going to. be really super positive and i'm going. to do everything i can to help you and. if you ever need something i'm going to.

be the person that comes and helps you. out. all i'm asking is that you do it for the. people in your circle. be the change see how quick that would. radiate yeah so my seven. so if i go if each of them goes to seven. you know what i mean yeah no. and it just feels stupid doesn't mean. that's that's what karma is yeah you. know i don't believe in wishy-washy. karma isn't like oh if i help a lady. then someone's going to help me in the. future but i think. from a logical perspective if i help. everyone i encounter maybe they'll be. more helpful. and that can make its way back around to. maybe my niece. you know but you know so true i just.

i can't see any i can't see any benefit. any benefit to criticism and negativity. and like. driving other people down someone that. get feels better for driving someone. else further down. is like for me the absolute epitome they. are the worst of them do you ever get. jealous. be completely honest uh yeah um. i get jealous but i only ever get. jealous through comparison and that is. ridiculous you know it's the nasty is it. the nasty jealous where you're like. why have they gotten yeah probably yeah.

yeah but you've got but. i think that is innate i think that is. almost there i am giving up. responsibility again for someone that. talks about 100. responsibility but i think that it's. innate in human nature. to to compare and to contrast and look. at someone else. so it's not a very long experience for. me i will look at someone. and i'll go but hey listen i'm so happy. and i've got all this i'm gonna and. actually sometimes i look at life as a. graph. and you literally don't know where life.

is gonna take you so let's say like. the people that i now sit with in a tv. studio. like um i sit with they say when i when. i had. robin van persie stephen jarrod and rio. ferdinand were all the pundits on bt. sport. there was a time where all three of. those were three of the most famous. footballers in the country. earning phenomenal sums of money. competing on the world stage. representing their country. and i was a a guy post. a level failure trying to sort of find a.

job and earning six thousand pounds a. year and there was a time where they. were there and i was there. and our graphs over the time have done. whatever's happened. look where i've ended up sitting next to. them on a tv studio. now it may well be that they go up there. again and something happens to me and i. go down here or it might be that i do. that and they do that. but you never know where that graph is. going to go and that is what i think is. that for me is one of the most exciting. things about this world that we live in. like you are only one step away from a. phone call where someone goes hey guess. what. and your graph goes so don't worry about.

where other people are on that graph. because it might be in five years time. you're right alongside them. i guess that's where that that hate a. lot of the hate comes from so if you. take the jealousy feelings that even you. have as you know one of the nicest. people i know. and you just you know times it by ten. but you know and that's the. you know people feel a certain way about. their lives and how their lives are. going. that's because it's it's chucked in our. faces all the time. yeah what is instagram if it isn't a. tool for comparison what is it. why are you having a great day and we i.

and i'm we're jealous of that i'm not. jealous we're guilty of it making other. people jealous of what we do. but we went out for uh we went for a. couple of days away as a family to a. lovely hotel called clifton. and it was lovely but the kids for some. reason were just badly behaved and it. does happen sometimes and we had this. meal. it was breakfast actually and they were. like it took ages for the food to come. and. the kids were like climbing the wall and. that's having to say to the waiter at. least i'm really sorry but like we've. been waiting for 20 minutes which is. fine for me and my wife but the kids. yeah they need and it was a posh hotel.

where you're trying to said you get to. just stay at the table sit and sit. nicely don't make too much noise. and then at the end of it i was. stressful man and i said hey i'll tell. you what the family. will want to know where we are so i'll. get my phone out and i go kids kids just. smile. and we take a photo and we put it we. have a family what's up group with. harriet's mum and dad my mum and dad all. the cousins all the aunts and uncles. right. we're all smiling everything looks great. just had a lovely breakfast at the hotel. i said. and then then we get loads of messages. back like from people like my sisters.

are going oh you're. your life always looks perfect and my. brother going oh another great day for. you. and i think actually yes like i've just. given them an absolute. falsification of what my sunday morning. cleveland house was like. that was a stressful hour and i've taken. the one thing that wasn't stressful. why have i put that in the group why. haven't i just gone hey guys hope you're. having a good sunday call we've just had. a [ __ ] half an hour here having some. breakfast but hey don't we all. that's and that's what we all do all the. time why else do all the people you. follow on instagram. put the things they put out there i i've.

you know i think the world has somewhat. flipped is flipping back the other way. in the sense that when we. all started instagram it was this new. thing you had these filters and it was. like a show. the best holiday you've ever had in your. life to the world that was kind of the. that's the thing you'd get the rewards. for and that represents. in terms of being able to relate to that. or it's like. 0.00 of the viewer's life like most of. our lives the 99 of our lives as i've. said in this podcast before is like. eating the pot noodle in bed. and now i see that the win with personal.

branding and building. um an instagram page is the antithesis. of showing that it's like. i've just woken up with my face covered. in spots in fact the last. you know two podcasts ago we had. christian here who's like a superstar. influencer entrepreneur and i was trying. to understand why her community. are so engaged with her so engaged with. her. versus even like even compared to mine. or other people's and it's because she. wakes up in the morning she goes. my face is covered in spots oh my god. i'm not gonna put the filter on today. and you see the spots on her face and.

stuff like that and then she'll cry. on her instagram story because her you. know her best friend lost her mother and. you. really can resonate with that you can. and also the amount of supply. on social media of that realness is low. demand is super high because it. represents the 99 of our lives. supply is super low and uh and. people joe wicks is the same he he will. he will. tell you everything i feel like [ __ ]. today you know and people just.

and that's the thing i think you can. form a bond with a real deep bond. so even as i reflect on my instagram now. i said to my team earlier this week i'm. like i need to like go on my instagram. story more. and do a lot of the stuff that i do on. the podcast which is just like telling. you the [ __ ] stuff too yeah. um and so i i say this yeah if you want. to build a personal brand i'm like you. know. you really need to get comfortable with. that make you happy though let's go back. to where we began. would you make me happy yeah because i. know. that it would not make me happy i my.

instagram isn't a lie. it is real but it's real with the things. that i choose to share basically yeah do. you know what i mean. by the way i have no lunch can i knock. yourself down it's actually yeah. this one actually worked this month so. it's um what is it this one this is. not had one present for you though when. i saw that you've got huels. yeah it's just great i was panicking i'd. undone it and i was going to flip fuel. all over your lovely rug in here. doesn't matter that that would be a cool. piece of promo um nutritionally complete. drink yeah yeah yeah. i think it's great man so i've eaten.

nothing today what's the time it's. vegan 20 past one so this is perfect for. me now this is my lunch. and my breakfast try let me know what. you think. this is my favorite flavor of all. that's good and if you have this all day. um which i don't know if that's to be. recommended but. all of your sort of essential minerals. are in there vitamins. high in protein so it's 20 grams of. protein at the same time slow releasing. carbs spill a bit on your really lovely. glass table it's fine don't mind.

low sugar gluten free yeah it's great. that's nice it's lovely yeah. and i drink it because um because i skip. meals. that's how i first well i'm trying to. intermittently fast because i've seen. um other people's six packs on social. media and they make me feel at me. okay they make me feel like i just need. to. you know right why do you feel the need. to share more of yourself on instagram. like so yeah so what's the benefit the. benefit is if i share. more of my truth all the the tough stuff.

which is pretty much why i started the. podcast in the first place. i feel that i'm helping a lot of people. and do i enjoy helping people and. getting. um and helping them overcome their. problems yes. yeah i mean you do that already on this. podcast yeah but i don't do it on. instagram. and i i think that do i want to have a. deeper connection with my audience on. instagram. yes what am i doing on instagram. predominantly just posting quotes to be. honest. so if i want to have a deeper connection. with my audience on instagram then i. should go deeper with them. yeah as i do on this podcast because the.

podcast audience are like a cult. you know they're super engaged because. of the depth and the realness. so i think it would make me happy in the. long run there must be a reason i don't. do it. that's a good point this i mean it's. been a huge revelation for me doing a. podcast because. when you're a football presenter you. don't get nice messages. on instagram you don't get like an. engaged core saying. this resonated with me that resonated. with me partly because you're not the. story. you're there to facilitate former pros.

to be the superstars i mean i liken my. job on the football to like being a. referee. like if i'm not seen that's probably a. good thing i make them look good i make. them feel good. and people let's be totally frank tune. in to watch the game. more people will tune in for man united. the more tuning. for norwich city more people won't. tune in for me because i'm just. the facilitator whereas with the podcast. the nicest thing has been this genuine. conversation connection like creation of.

a. proper community and that's that's been. a totally new thing to me i thought i. knew everything that was to know about. broadcasting and. you know with a million followers on. twitter and an instagram account and. running a tv production company and. being a tv presenter like i knew what it. was about i knew how to connect to. people. i've never known anything like it never. seen feedback like. it never had fulfillment like it. it's amazing is there something crazy. about podcasting though versus all other. channels and i think it's that depth.

the messages you get if i post something. on instagram i'll get a. oh i can totally relate the podcast you. get a. like essay about you know they return. with their story. yeah and it's like depth begets depth. yeah yeah. yeah i totally see what you're saying. and i and it's um. it stops it from like because when i. first started the high performance. podcast i wanted it just to be. me opening up amazing people to benefit.

other people. and i will now admit part of the thrill. of that podcast is seeing the response. and seeing. seeing the reaction and i'm i'm not. foolish enough to think that isn't my. ego at work it absolutely is my ego that. likes it. but it is like it's amazing when you see. hi i listened to your podcast and i. changed jobs after wanting to do it for. 20 years hi i listened to your podcast. and i've quit doing something that's. been bad for me for my whole life. i've reached out to create relationships. with people that are allowed to die. from listening to our podcast bloody.

hell. what's the most emotional moment you've. had with a guest that you can recall. on the podcast is there a particular. moment that you know yeah who. there's quite a few times that i've kind. of um. that i've sort of edged towards tears. and i think you know someone i've. already mentioned. sean wayne you know when um when someone. talks to you about. that sort of the devastation of being.

physically abused by a parent and. they've got. i suppose what was emotional for me was. the was the learning. during the interview with sean and i. knew very little about him before we. spoke. the learning that all of the good stuff. he's done you know he talks about. if he's got an issue with one of his. players he doesn't just have to chat. with him after training he turns up at. their house in the evening he says. what's the deal man. how can i help how can i solve this um. and he is now a parent himself and a. really loving and caring parent to have.

the start in life that sean had. and to for your whole life to be about. helping other people that was like. that that was a that was a hugely moving. conversation with him. yeah i think all of all of the guests. i've had that have um moved me in the. same way. is almost identical it's nice isn't it i. don't know whether you're like this with. podcasts but. i love that we have footballers on and. don't talk about football. we have rugby players and i don't really. talk about rugby.

um we just talk about it. my podcast is a podcast about life. exactly like this one is. and we were talking before we started. recording today about the. the desire to try and avoid the typical. talking points with guests. and i think this is maybe just a general. a general point for people that are. trying to start a podcast you know. um there are so many podcasts out there. yeah and. in order to what would your tips be then. for someone who's considering starting a. podcast from what you've learned in your. 30 or you know. you've you've recorded a total of 50 so.

far but yeah we've done that live. what tips what did you give to someone. who's thinking of starting their own. first of all go for it. because i honestly what i honestly. was this close to not doing it the great. thing about podcasts that you. that i didn't have in my life was. ownership so i'd spent my career. working for children's bbc working for. formula one. and the bbc working for the premier. league on bt sport. and i sat down with someone they said. like how's your career and i said yes. great. i'm really happy i love doing the.

football i love being with the players. and everything and they said what. if you've got a phone call tomorrow to. say that that had ended what would you. be left with. and i was like um today i have to go and. find another job. they said so what do you own of all. these years of graft and hard work like. what's yours. and the answer was nothing and then the. next question they. you know they obviously knew what they. were talking about i said what do you. really want to do. and i said well i don't really care. if liverpool beat man united or.

norwich city be ipswich not really but i. love like the effort and the graphs and. i love sitting with the pundits i love. the way that. rio ferdinand and steven gerrard watch a. game of football i love how they turn up. looking smart or they bring their own. food in little. plastic containers still or the day that. i first met lewis hamilton. and he walked in the room and he like. took off his watch. and he didn't just chuck his watch on. the side he got it and he closed up the. clasp. and he put it down and he moved it and. he goes. bracelet off and he went.

[Music]. i just looked at i thought ah that. desire for perfection that elite mindset. mentality i said to them that's what i. want i want to. speak to elite performers and elite. thinkers. because i think that everyone can. benefit from that everyone can think. and operate and perform better because. there's no tricks there's no secrets. like. you just need to have the passion and go. out and do it. and they said well then that's what you. should do a podcast so that was it right. great i'm doing a podcast.

and then i mentioned it to a couple of. people and they went why you can't do a. podcast. i was like why because everyone does. podcasts like there's literally so many. podcasts. you can't you're not gonna make a splash. there's thousands of podcasts. and then i rang an old friend of mine. from children's bbc and she is. i don't really even ever told her this. but she's the reason i do the podcast. fern cotton who does happy place i said. hey. i think i'm doing a podcast now she is. such a nice person she is not the sort. of person to go oh hold on. a rival podcast yeah she'd never even.

consider she would oh my god you'd be. great at doing a podcast. like she spoke about what it was about. and i said but my issue is i just think. that like there's loads of them out. there. and then she was the one that said look. we worked together at children's bbc. yeah. television had been invented for 50. years there must have been. hundreds of channels thousands of. programmes did you think i'm not going. to work in telly because there's already. loads of tv programs no course you. didn't you just thought well i'm gonna. work in telly and make my mark. she said you need to do exactly the same. thing with your podcast.

um so the first thing you is you have to. do your podcast you have to go out and. do it. but the second and that's the biggest. challenge though isn't it. starting it's just in every facet of. life yeah entrepreneurs contact me and. i'm like the biggest risk you face. of all the things that might yeah i. think you can do a podcast risk-free. though you know you can spend a very. minimal sum of money if any money at all. on on the equipment 100 but then you can. you can so cheap yeah no you could start. you could do a great podcast in terms of. sound quality with. less than 100 pounds yeah the risk.

though. is overthinking it to the point of. procrastination to the point of select. paralyzing yourself. i think in all facets of life business. my dm's are full of people that are like. steve i want to start a business i have. an idea i want to start a podcast or. this project. but there's just this one problem which. is preventing me starting and i always. say the biggest risk. of the success of your business the. number one thing that's going to stop. you becoming a billionaire honestly. is the probability that you'll just.

never start and also. that you'll think you need all of the. answers to all of the questions you have. before you start yeah. well i don't know this i don't have the. funding i don't like when i started my. business i was 18 didn't know the word. entrepreneur. no money went on google and typed in. like. how to build a website spent three. months googling it but that was me. starting. you know um and i think it's the same. with podcasting i'm like. my first episode was dog [ __ ] i was. downstairs inside. what is it when telly would say the.

first is the worst you know that's the. way it is that's the way it has to be. but the point is. you got going you started and i think. you need to begin. and then you need to be consistent and. you need to keep going and don't expect. instant success and instant. gratification but i think the other. thing for it like i get a lot of. i get a lot of people sending me letters. saying i want to be on the television. and i always reply in the positive. because i always say well someone has to. be doing my job. in 20 years time when i'm 62 i will not.

be presenting the premier league on bt. sport. i just won't be someone has to be could. be you why not make it you make the. decision now that it's going to be you. that's the next. well-known sports tv broadcaster and. then i remind them that. when i started out in 1998. 99 to be on the telly to be a. broadcaster you actually needed a job. that was not very easy to go and get now. you can pick up your phone. and you're a broadcaster you can have a. youtube channel you can have an. instagram handle. you can have a twitter page you can have.

a podcast. as long as you've got a passion because. you then funnel. everything into that passion and. everything feeds everything else so the. instagram handle points people towards. the podcast the podcast is fantastic so. people go and watch. the podcast that you've recorded on. youtube and then you start to build an. audience there and you make a little bit. of money and it slowly starts to build. be consistent but have the passion have. the thing that's different like. i will get maybe 10 times a week hi jake. um i just wonder whether you would come. and be on our podcast we just want to.

talk about you know your journey and how. you got to where you are now it'd be. really great to have a chat. and you roll your eyes and it's like man. you've got to be better than that. everyone can go and have a conversation. about your journey and the highs and the. lows and the struggles. what's the niche what's the team yeah so. tell me anything tell me what someone. would have to say to you that has. basically no listeners or is starting. out that would make you go on their. podcast because like passion would be. absolutely. definitely about their passion and i. have done plenty of podcast interviews. in the last year.

where there hasn't been a big audience. but i've really loved the fact that the. person has come to me. known a lot about me and said i really. want to explore. this particular area with you i think. just the broad brush stroke of can we. just talk about your inspiration and. talk about your upbringing. and talk about how you first got into. broadcasting. yeah let's like i'm a bit like this now. and everything i do like even when i'm. broadcasting. i'm not interested in canon united win. the league i am much more interested. in um looking at one of the players. marcus rashford for example and having a.

really proper. deep conversation with paul scholes and. rio ferdinand like. explain to me how hard it is for him to. concentrate on football. when he's got so many people criticizing. him on social media for doing the school. dinners. or how difficult is it for him to. run out of old trafford and really. perform at a high level when he hasn't. got. 80 000 people how much of a difference. does it really make to have the crowd at. old trafford they're. inspiring you and driving you on like.

that is a. much much more of an interesting. conversation for me because it feels. much more real. yeah than just the general stuff so that. would be my advice to people is. make it really specific make it really. passion based. and there's that big about like having. you want them to. show evidence that they've done their. research on you so because. listen people send emails invite you. onto a podcast or dms whatever. but most of our lives um and the success. of our lives. as least as i can recount it in my. journey has been predicated on me. knowing how to ask someone for something.

that they really didn't have a huge. clear incentive to give me yeah asking. in the right way so we're not just. talking about inviting jake onto. podcasts here we're talking about how. you ask for something. how you knock on a door that uh you know. maybe is a bit. above you at that point i think that. often you get a lot of respect there. just for asking the question. and i think i think the other thing is. for people to remember when they're in. our position. you've been in that position as well. like you have been there and don't. expect them to be perfect by the way. like everything that you now find easy.

about sitting here and recording this. podcast once you didn't find easy. yeah you found it a struggle that's the. really important point. and those people are often right at the. beginning of their journey and they're. finding their way. and why can't you give them 10 minutes. even if you can't go on their podcast. stephen why can't you just go do you. know what just give me your number i'll. give you 10 minutes 10 minutes of your. day. is nothing could change your entire life. so there's a lot of people asking for 10. minutes this is the problem. and if you add it up there's then we. don't have much time left for anything. else and i i sometimes think to myself. if i gave all of these people 10 minutes. i wouldn't be the type of person that.

they'd be asking for. you can't do stuff you don't have time. to do but you probably can do. 10 minutes once in a while a couple of. times a day yeah. the thing that annoys me a couple of. times with the dm's the night once in a. while. yeah once a couple times a day yeah. anyway. yeah do you know i'm doing it anyway for. like i told you about my friend that. called me with a problem. like so i give him 20 minutes to solve. the problem with him i'm doing that all. day every day and. my employees all at social change now. that i've left contacted me more than. i think they did it when i was there. asking me how to solve problems.

with each other with the company what. should we be doing so yeah i still feel. like i'm mentoring a lot of. people don't always look for like the. instant value and stuff. no i know that when someone rings you. and goes um stephen i know i'm a social. chain and i know i wasn't very high up. the chain at social chain but. and i know you've left i [ __ ] love. what you did a couple of quick questions. right. yeah you might look at it and go do you. know what i remember that person i just. haven't got the time i've got to get in. the gym. right let's say you did yeah what you've. done is you've seen the value to you.

in that moment of giving them 10 minutes. of your time what about if that person. then goes on and thinks. wow i've been so impressed by what i've. done at social channel i'm going to set. up my own business i'm going to do this. and suddenly the snowball effect comes. and then in a couple of years time you. get the phone call steve and i'd love. you to be on the advisory board of this. business i set up because i actually set. it up because you gave me a bit of. inspiration a few years ago. there's the value you never see it's. invisible if you don't give them the few. minutes at that time. i call it hand it out man invisible pr. yeah. you never see it in the moment you never. see the impact it's having but when it.

matters the most. it will show up so for example the guy. told you about from man vs food. we have a huge food channel and we're. looking for hosts for this food channel. that would potentially get paid a ton of. money. and in that one moment he will never see. he saw the value giving you. 10 seconds in that moment and then with. no value yeah but but now. he's clearly going to be excluded from. the process of deciding who hosts the. food channel yeah just because of that. 10 seconds. he'll never know because it's invisible. pr um but what i see what does make me. annoyed is i'll get messages from. someone and i'll say steve.

i swear to god i got this message i. screenshotted and said it's my friends. because it. it's synonymous of the wrong approach. steve um. i'd love to know uh how you did what you. did. i've produced thousands. of videos podcasts interviews. blogs on how i did what i did there's. actually a video called like how i. built a 200 million company or whatever. and for me when someone says that i. think. you don't actually want to know because. if you really wanted to know you would.

have put that into google yeah or you. would have put more effort in. you're being super lazy and then i said. to the guy i saw it. you're not fine got the video where i. explained how i didn't i did what i did. and i sent it to him he goes uh you know. you should write a book. i. maybe he just doesn't yet know what he. doesn't know. and if you showed him these these little. bits in 10 years time he'd be. embarrassed and maybe if you looked at. some of the. early interactions you had with people.

you'd be embarrassed about what you i. know i would some of the emails i sent. i've. i so i have a really old hotmail account. that i've had literally since the. beginning of time and i don't use it. anymore. but sometimes it's quite cathartic for. me to go back into that hotmail account. zoop back to the very beginning we're. talking about emails i was sitting in. 2001. and i'm surprised man i get my tone. wrong and i'm a bit bulshy and i'm a bit. pushy and i think this doesn't sound or. seem like me. maybe i just think benefit of the doubt. man. always benefit of the doubt and i'm not.

saying you need to bust your balls. and spend two days giving this person a. private seminar. but definitely do i mean i think it's. great you replied and just reply go. listen. here's all the stuff that i've done but. when he replies and says. you should write a book a he's giving. you a compliment. b he might be a bit nervous you know the. problem is so there's thousands and. thousands of people. like this on a weekly basis yeah so my. my decision as to who to. help or to who to engage with is based. on the message they send. and if someone says some people would.

message me go so um. so what is social change come on like if. you just googled it yeah if you. if you clicked on the word in my bio. there's a description of exactly what it. is. but people will still and for me that's. laziness because if i like i can't think. of a point in my life where if i wanted. to know. whether i was 16 or 26 whether if i. wanted a piece of information. i would have just my my attempt at. getting it would have just been to. message the person you know the public.

figure whatever you say so uh. how did you uh win that uh formula one. championship lewis. i would have at least tried you know. what i mean do you think there's an. issue here with um. like with a social media now there's a. complete lack of formality so like when. you and i were growing up and we wanted. to run a business that someone had set. up and sold for hundreds of millions you. literally could not get to that person. unless it was a real graft to get there. so by the time you did manage to get an. email address for some ceo of some big. business. it had been such a journey you weren't.

going to lose the opportunity or waste. the opportunity. because it had taken you two or three. months just to get to the point of being. able to send something. part of the issue now is the people who. want information from you. literally this is how long it takes. steven bartlett. direct message h-i-s-t-e-v. hi steven um can i know about your. business. right that's taken me 30 seconds that's. how long it is so that's why. the quality of effort is so low because. because they're just. used to it that's how we now communicate.

with each other but then the other thing. is. 20 years ago when you were trying to get. hold of a ceo of a big business. there was quite a good filtration. process so that by the time you got the. email address of that guy. or that woman at the top of that. business it was a journey. you would have had 20 knockbacks 10 or. 15 setbacks blah blah blah blah blah. so actually the person that got those. email addresses were. the grafters man and the ones that were. finding the route and finding the path. and it shows though that the most.

important thing one of the. 2020 growth hacks for your career is. knowing how to ask. yeah because everyone everyone has now. got the email or the dm. but there's a real art in knowing what. to say when you're in there. i know that people like you are getting. a lot of messages every day. all of the same quality but that's great. because it's easy to stand out if you. want to say a good thing. if you send me a voice note that jumps. up in the queue. if if the voice note is um well.

researched as you say jumps up in the. queue further. if you're asking here's the thing for me. it's like if you're asking me for. something. and you're making some attempt to. acknowledge the fact. that um that you know i don't have a lot. of time that also jumps up in the queue. because i think you this person's a. little bit more you know savvy and. it's being more realistic um but yeah it. makes a huge difference. coral yeah i want to talk about this so. i eyewear brand i received these lovely. um sunglasses.

in the post and as i said to you before. we got on out i'd usually look a little. bit. weird in sunglasses but this pair of. sunglasses and i'm not just saying this. and i actually said this behind your. back as well so this is how you know. it's legit right. um i actually think i look quite cool. you do look good yeah and i would never. wear. sunglasses like this normally because i. couldn't find. the right shape yeah tell me all about. coral and and what this is this is your. first sort of significant investment. yeah it's the first time i've ever. invested in a business really obviously. whisper group is different because i was.

a founder and we set that up together. um but i've wanted for a long time to do. what i can. to help people who are perhaps in a. position where i can have some influence. on their lives so. about a year ago i set up a scholarship. with the uea the university of east. anglia in norwich. it's pretty simple when people apply for. the film and tv course. they're means tested so they have to. fill in a form so we can find out their. family income and if the family income. is below a certain level. i will pay five grand a year every year.

that they're at university so 15 grand. over the time of their course. to make it affordable for them to go to. uni so it's literally my way of finding. people. who wouldn't get a chance in the tv. industry it's similar to the ethos we. have at whisper like we want to lift up. people that are underrepresented and i. think there's amazing tv talent out. there. and they literally will never get the. opportunity to have a tv career. purely for financial means and that. really makes me sad. so i set that up and then i had this. great relationship with the uea and they. introduced me to a.

young guy called george bailey and he's. a 19 year old student he's 20 now at the. uea. and he had this idea for recycled. eyewear and it is literally taking. fishing that's out of the sea. taking plastic out of landfill and. turning them into eyewear. and ice and i said you know what george. like that's a really good idea. i really like it but it will be. everywhere already because it's so. simple. because when we sort of run through the. numbers there's something like nine. million. pairs of eyewear sold in the uk every. year almost all of them virgin plastic.

covered in lacquer full of glue full of. metal. bad for the environment not doing any. good for the planet at all. so i sort of heard what he said and. thought this would be happening already. and i was actually in london for a. meeting with my agent in west london i. thought the perfect place. for recycled sustainable eyewear brand. is west london. so i went into all of the high street. eyewear places that you could possibly. imagine. you know david klullo and um sunglasses. hut and all of these others on oxford. street and bond street i was in that.

area and i said. the same thing every time i walked in hi. can i see your range of recycled eyewear. blank faces can i see your green range. your sustainable range. the same nothing response and i was. straight on the phone to george i said. listen. we need to make this happen we really. need to make this happen and we're not. the only brand in the world. making eyewear from recycled material. but we're the only brand who have gone. and got our own eyewear designer so it's. original designs. handmade in a factory in italy we then.

offset. all the carbons when that gets delivered. to you there's not been a single. hit on the planet from the carbon and. the plastic has been taken out of the. world to create those. the lenses are infinitely recycled and. we have a system where you send the. lenses. or the whole eyewear back to us and we. can recycle them so it all goes again. so the phrase i use is planet positive. it's not just like not putting pollution. into the planet it's actively removing. plastic and turning it into something. that you would otherwise have gone and. purchased. um and look we're a startup we're small.

it'll be a slog. and it'll be a battle but i wouldn't. have got involved like everything else. i've been talking to you about if i. didn't passionately believe. that those are the answer none of us go. shopping now. without a plastic bag in our hand. already or a reusable tote bag or. whatever. but none of us think twice before we go. and buy a pair of sunglasses. and coral i wear i want to be the answer. the case there that's made from plastic. oh this case or this case yeah that's. recycled plastic the cloth inside. recycled plastic you'd never know would.

you no even one of the things that. really struck me as well is how high. quality it all feels like it feels super. luxury like the. the case and then well that's the thing. we want we also didn't want people to. think yeah i want to sort of help the. environment but i'll have to look a bit. rubbish. we actually want people to think i can. still buy. a really nice high-end high-quality bit. of eyewear you got a little note there. from george yeah what's he said on this. says hey there thank you so much for. choosing coral and our vision to make. the eyewear industry kinder to our. planet. smiley face george that's super nice. yeah no i.

i was you know i was i was nervous. because when friends send me things and. then he probably. sometimes i don't say yeah and i'm i'm. known for being really honest. with my friends um and saying oh i don't. really like this about it or whatever. because i just think the truth sets you. free. and that's what people really value as. you said earlier it's like the the. critique is often. um more valuable at certain stages than. just total praise one word you said. earlier that i. has become incredibly important in my. mindset these days is the word. consistency yeah.

um maybe from meeting exceptional guests. maybe just from understanding. the root cause of my own accomplishments. but um. i you know i used to think that. intensity was was the answer but if you. look at all of the success that i've had. whether it's getting a million followers. on instagram or social channel whatever. it was it was that word and i never. really appreciated the importance of. that word up until recent i think when i. was writing my book. what have you learned about consistency. i've learned. exactly as you have that consistency is. the root. of all good stuff because if you find.

something that works for you. you have to do it consistently like i. used to say consistently relentless. i regret the use of the word relentless. a little bit now i i do think you have. to be relentless. but i now change it to you have to be. consistently happily. relentless and if you can be. consistently. happily relentless i don't think you. will go far wrong because. you'll be doing a passion project which. is what makes you happy. you will be consistently doing things.

and consistency is absolutely. key for people to understand what you're. about and let's be totally frank. we can sit here and be fluffy and. friendly and say oh you know let's not. push people too hard in the modern world. because it might cause issues and. whatever. you do have to be relentless. for success but it's okay to be. relentless. if you're being relentless and you're. happy being relentless. so try in 2021 to be consistently. happily relentless and let's see where.

we all are in 12 months time. i have one more question for you it's. probably a question people don't really. talk about. in the podcasting game but um we have. struggled at times to get. women to come on the podcast yep. um for a variety of different reasons. men seem much more. willing than women have you found the. same thing yeah we have yeah it's. interesting you should say that yeah we. have. i don't think that we have found women. not willing to come on the podcast.

i think it's only when you start doing a. podcast about. relentless high achievement that you. realize. how dominated by men. the tops of our industries are yeah. that's the problem. and i you know we keep on saying right. who should we get on as really great. inspirational female leaders and. all the suggestions people keep making. to us are in the sports space i keep. saying no not sports women. because we are totally i am totally. plugged into the fact that i want to. celebrate.

brilliant successful females you know i. have a daughter and i want her to. listen to this podcast in years to come. when she's old enough and go that's who. i want to be that's what i want to be. inspired by. and i think that sometimes we like to. trick ourselves into thinking oh no we. live in a really equal society now what. are you talking about there's loads of. powerful females at the top of. businesses when you break it down. we are still in a male dominated society. and it's a good reminder that we need to. keep on lifting up. female role models and pushing them to. the absolute top and we are.

on the high performance podcast we are. totally aware of that um and we will. continue to do what we can because. actually. when we get brilliant female leaders on. there and we just recorded. with joe malone um who set up the. amazing joe malone brand she now runs. joe loves we've recorded with. holly tucker who was fantastic dame. kelly holmes who was really. inspirational and moving steph horton is. going to be on. the series in the not too distant future. we've had. brilliant female. leaders on our pod but it is still.

a challenge compared to the amount of. male leaders lining up going i'll. definitely come on there and talk. and there is something else that maybe. we need to address in the next 12 months. black women at the top of business mate. where are they. why what is happening that is not. allowing them to shine as they should. and that's one thing and i just say one. thing that really is pissing me off. massively at the moment. is when people talk about the. over-representation. of black and mixed-race or female role.

models in society. and they say oh everywhere you turn now. you know that's all this and i. drive this home to the whole time i say. listen you've got this completely wrong. the reason why we now have to promote. and push and celebrate and shout. about black men and black women. and women in general and. underrepresented. areas of society is that if you are a. little kid growing up. in norwich or manchester or birmingham. or. los angeles you have to see those people.

there to believe that you can get there. as well. there's no good saying oh yeah they'll. eventually make it through we have to. show them now. that you can no matter who you are no. matter what the color of your skin. no matter what your gender no matter. what your background no matter how. affluent you are. you can get there and that's why we have. to push them to the forefront now. to inspire the next generation because. once they're there they'll stay there. and it'll be a much better more equal. society for everyone. we've both got a big responsibility yeah. with our platforms yeah and it and we.

should we absolutely should. listen thank you for your time no one. was incredibly busy it's always nice to. sit down. yeah thanks for lunch no it's always. fascinating and i. i you know you're discovering um. incredible stories through your own. podcast high performance and. it's uh it's really powerful to kind of. compare notes sometimes with with people. uh. because yeah my one of the things i've. learned from doing the podcast which i'm. sure you have as well is that. the themes that have made people. successful and giving them that high. performance mindset are actually quite.

consistent yeah yeah yeah i think when i. started my podcast i was expecting to. find. 50 different ways you know to become. successful but. it all seems to be distillable down to. these simple themes like. you know consistency and discipline and. passion and then. for me anyway much of the root cause of. that consistency or that obsession with. that passion has come from. often in many circumstances something. that might not have gone. right yeah on the playground or some. insecurity they had or something their. dad or mum said to them.

um and that for me is fascinating but. yeah thank you again for your time it's. pleasure and um. it just reminded me that we're all on a. journey right and i said to harriet when. i was coming on here today i said oh i'm. going. back on diary of a ceo with steven. and she said again what are you going to. talk about because you only went on. there a few months ago. and you know when i now sit here and. talk to you i'm a different person to. the one that you spoke with before i. began. doing my podcast before i began doing my. stuff with coral airway even in the last. year i feel like i'm sitting here as a. different person.

and i didn't realize that you could. learn and change and develop and adapt. quite so much quite so late so man look. joe biden. took him until he was 77 until he nailed. it as the president. you know sometimes you have to wait a. long time in life for your dream job or. your dream opportunity. what has changed since we last spoke for. you in terms of who you are just a much. deeper understanding. of how other people operate i hadn't. i've spent my life hadn't like on my own. journey me as a presenter. me learning me setting up a business.

what am i gonna do. the high performance podcast was the. first time i'd ever sat down. and just said from the outside this is. what i think you're doing can you just. explain it please. what a growth period it's been for me. personally. absolutely unbelievable and therapy at. the same time right yeah it's. therapeutic. absolutely um.

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