Kevin O'Leary: Every Time You Get Paid, Do This! It 10xs Your Income Without Having To Work Harder!

That is the stupidest thing you can ever. do. Well, what is the most important thing. for someone who's just trying to grow. their money? So, I learned this from my mother and I. actually built a whole company around. it. Yeah, there she is. So, I haven't seen that picture in a while. Damn. I mean, what she did, the. performance was extraordinary. And with. that, did she put my brother and I. through college? She took care of our.

family when they. fell on hard times. When I saw the results, I said, "That's. it. That's how I'm going to invest for. the rest of my life.". So, talk me through this one as much. detail as possible. Okay, let's start with this. Kevin. O'Leary, aka Mr. Wonderful, is the. self-made millionaire and investor who's. built and sold companies for billions. There's a lot of people don't like me. for my bluntness. I don't care because. there's people that don't think ahead. and find themselves mired in debt, but. then pissing away money, spending $28. for lunch. I mean, that's just stupid.

What about a house? The mistake that. people make is they buy too much house. Never let the mortgage and the cost of. maintaining the house be more than 1/3. of your income. And how much does the. person that you fall in love with have. an impact? You're kidding? It's everything. And I. did some research and most marriages can. survive infidelity. They can't survive. financial stress. But, if everybody. that's listening does this one thing, you will have over a million and a half. dollars. Kevin, can anybody be an entrepreneur? No, only a third of people can become.

successful entrepreneurs because there's. a couple of things that you must achieve. to be successful. First, Kevin, I'm going to ask you to do. something which is quite difficult. because I'd find it quite hard if. someone asked me to do this. But, before. we get into the detail, can you give me. a 30,000 ft view on your. entrepreneurship and investing career? Just the just the three bullet points. that are most pertinent before we dig. into those. specifics. Every entrepreneur I've ever.

talked to that finds himself where I am. today has has a defining moment where. they are. pushed into this path. It's It's. something they can remember and they. remember it in perpetuity. And I'll. remember my moment getting fired in an. ice cream store. That simple. First day on the job, asked. to serve and scoop ice cream. And um. I did that all day, but when people. sample ice cream, they get a taster and. they take their gum out and they throw. it on the floor. Somebody's got to scrape the gum off the.

floor at the end of the day. I only took that job because I was very. interested in a girl who was working in. the shoe store and I figured. I could you know, hang out with her. afterwards. And I saw her waiting for me. and the. woman who owned the store said, "You've. got to scrape the gum off the floor.". And I didn't want her to see me on my. knees with a scraper. It'd be bad for my. brand. I was in high school. And uh. she said, "No, no, you have to do it.". And I said, "You know, you hired me as a. scooper, not a scraper.".

She said, um. "How about you're fired?". And I didn't even know what that meant. and it was the defining moment for me. because I realized there's two kinds of. people in the world. There's people. that own the store and there's people. that scrape the [ __ ] off the floor. And. you have to decide who you are and I'm. not saying being employed is a bad. thing, not at all. But for me, um it it. hit me. It just hit me. Kevin, there's a. present for you. We give a present to. all of our guests. Really? Underneath. that black Can I open it?

You can open it. I just take this out? Oh, look at that. You've heard the story. That is exactly how it looked, except it. was black gum. And that was exactly the. tile. It was just like that Mexican. tile. That's really freaking me out. So, you. were asked to scrape gum off a Mexican. tile. Yes, just like that. And in order to do. that, you got to get down on your knees. and do it. And um I just couldn't do it. And I And I And. And then you know the rest of the story. I eventually could afford to bulldoze.

the whole mall if I wanted to. And we. went back to meet her and thank her for. her pushing me off the treadmill into. that direction. And she was gone and. there was a bodega there instead. You. said that that you realized that there's. kind of two people in life. There's the. entrepreneur, there's the person that. owns the ice cream parlor, and there's. the person that scrapes it off the. floor. Yeah. That provoked a question in me, which is. do you think anybody can own the ice. cream parlor? I do you think anybody can. be an entrepreneur? No. I've. tried to teach it um.

and I mentor it all the time to the CEOs. that I work with. Uh there are some attributes of people. that can do this. A certain element of. risk tolerance, uh a certain element of. focus. And then the other element which I've. really started to believe in of late is. karma. Luck. You need to be lucky. You need It's like. Napoleon was once asked, "Who are your favorite generals?" And he. said, "My favorite generals are lucky. generals, my lucky generals." And I'm.

starting to think that in life um. particularly entrepreneurship, you look. at the difference to the path of success. and failure and I Nobody's exposed to it. more than I am in terms of how many. investments I made I've made over the. decades. I think if you want a percentage, and. then I teach these cohorts in in at. Harvard, I'm an executive fellow there. I'm very. proud of that work. You get a class of 120 people in a room.

Two-thirds of them want to become. consultants. That's why they're there. And lead. a life of mediocrity and never make a. decision of consequence in their lives. And after 24 months, they are tainted. with that disease forever. They'll. always be good consultants, but they. will never achieve greatness in any way. In life, only a third of people can. become successful entrepreneurs. That's. it. And the rest can be very successful. employees, and there's nothing wrong. with that. You can have a fantastic. life. You won't be shackled to the you know,

the the ups and downs of. entrepreneurship, the challenge of it, how hard it is. But, you will never be free. And that's the debate. That's it right. there. Do you want personal freedom? It's the only path. That's it. It's the. only path. It is the only path. I mean, you can't I I've always said it's not. about the pursuit of money. It's not. about the pursuit of greed. You will. fail if you do that. It's It's the. undying love freedom. So, that 1/3 of people that you say will. be successful, they'll pursue their. their dreams, they'll build a business,

whatever it might be. Yeah. Do you think it's possible for us in. this conversation to increase the. probability of their success? You said. you don't think you can you can make. someone an entrepreneur. But, is there things you can do to. increase their probability of success? Yes, there are a couple of things that. you must achieve to be successful. And. let me explain what they would be. And. this is not some academic study. This is. real data from real situations of real. CEOs I've worked with and learned from, because I used to work for guys like. Steve Jobs and others.

in my career. Let me um. Let me give you one that I think's very. important. We'll start with this one. I. used to work for Steve Jobs in the early. '90s making all of his educational. software. And it was just Yeah, there. they are. My goodness, you guys do good. research. Those are the kind of things. that we did for him. You know, yeah. Yeah, all of that. It's hard to find. Those are CD-ROMs. But, you know, in developing that software,

we used to go quarterly. Um Heidi Roizen. was there in the room. She's still a. very famous venture capitalist. And. I would say, "Steve, you know, we got to do some market research on. Oregon Trail. I mean, it's a huge title. It's in 110,000 school buildings. We got. to do an update. It's going to cost you. 12, 15 million bucks. We want to find out what the students. want. We want to find out what the. teachers want. We want to find out what. the parents want. Steve would say, by. the way,

not a nice guy. Not a nice guy. He would say to a room full of people, "Kevin, I don't give a [ __ ] what the. students want or the parents think or. anybody thinks. It's what I want. They. don't know what they want till I tell. them what they want.". And I said, "Steve, you sound like such. an [ __ ] You have no idea what that. sounds like." He says, "No, no. That's how it is, Kevin. Now, are you. making money with me? Are we Are you Am. I your fastest growing OEM?

Have we not been wildly successful and. continue to be?". I said, "Yes, Steve, that's true." He. said, "Then [ __ ] shut up and do what. I say." That's how he would talk to you? 100%. and. here's what I learned. Look how wildly successful he was. But, here's why. There's a concept that he understood. that very few people focused on back. then in the early '90s of. signal-to-noise ratio.

What was so brilliant about Jobs. that I tell every CEO now, and I don't. care if you're an S&P 500 CEO or you're. just starting a business. His vision of signal was the top three. to five things you have to get done in. the next 18 hours. Not your vision for. the business next week or next month or. next year. Just the next 18 hours you're. awake. You're going to get those three things. or those five things done that you have. deemed critical for your mission. They.

must get done today. Anything that stops you from doing that. is the noise. So, the signal-to-noise ratio to be. successful for Steve Jobs. was 80/20. 80 signal, 20 noise. And I knew that to be true with him. because he would email me at 2:30 in the. morning, expect me to get back to him. because back then we didn't have texts. It was all email. He was right. He was right. And the only other person that I've seen.

that has a higher ratio than that. is Elon Musk. He has no noise. He does not deal with noise. He is 100%. signal 24 seconds of, you know, every. cycle. I mean, the guy is just 60. seconds of every minute, 60 minutes of. every hour, the 18 hours he's awake, it's all. signal. And look what he's achieved. Now, that's. very awkward for him socially. because. noise is dealing with your family. sometimes, or noise is saying hi to a. friend, or noise is is is listening to.

some doom scrolling on, you know, some. social media app that just takes your. mind, or maybe playing your guitar. But, very few people on Earth, and if you go. back in history, you're going to find. out that the geniuses of their time. were close to 100% signal. And so, I can really sort of summarize. this for my audience. Signal is the most. urgent thing you should be focused on. right now, and noise is basically. everything else. No, the goals you set for that the the. way the that you were awake. If you're. going to be awake 18 hours, Yeah.

and you've determined that there's three. things you have to get done, you're going to get those done. No. matter what it takes, you're going to. get those done. And you're not going to. let anything distract you from the three. to five things. If you're a CEO, and you achieve that, and you can get those done with 80% of. your time based on that, you're extraordinarily successful. You. are absolutely And you're Steve Jobs, or. you're an Elon Musk, or you're somebody. If you If you even talk to Bezos, I. don't know him personally, but I've. heard in many interviews, like I knew I.

I know, I've I've met Elon just a few. times. I spent a lot of time with Jobs. But they say the same thing. Bezos will not make a decision after. 1:00 in the afternoon because he felt. that the noise was too high. The signal for him was in the morning. hours. If this is a crucial aspect of. success that that I now understand to be. the ability of. defines. an entrepreneur. A man or woman that. understands the signal noise ratio that.

focuses on that. they'll be successful. The ones that can't that get down to a. 50/50 signal noise, they'll fail. It's. that simple. And it's a very simple concept. You know. you made one of your things today this. interview. You're going to get it done. You're going to all these people around. and everything else. This is one of the. three to five things you're going to get. done. I have five things today. I'm. going to get them done. I'll do the same. thing tomorrow. And the day after that. And you have to decide how much signal.

you need to get those three to five. things done. And for Jobs it was 80%. What's the opposite of that? Sometimes. looking at the opposite helps us to. understand something. So the opposite of. having Well, I hire managers and CEOs. that have a balance in life between the. discipline the binary aspect of business. which is I make money I lose money. And the chaos of the arts or some other. pursuit dance, painting, photography. collecting crystals, whatever it is that. that they that they have that balance.

you you need you need the yin and yang. in your mind to make correct decisions. It doesn't mean it takes you off the. signal. The signal is you got to get. stuff done. But how do you live your. life? And so I spend a fair amount of my. time practicing my guitar or working. with my photography or my my watch you. know I. tonight very late tonight I will meet a. master watchmaker and we will deal with. the design of a new piece unique is. going to make for me and I'm going to. love that moment. That's going to be. something completely different to what I.

did all day long and we'll start our. journey together over the next 2 years. to make this piece unique. And. that's something that just takes me away. from all the [ __ ] I'm going to be. dealing with today. And I also tell. successful entrepreneurs. in the same day you'll get a and I this. happened to me today. It happens every. day. You're going to get a call from some. aspect of of your. what you do you call it your empire. whatever you want where your this. company's going bankrupt. It's just. going to go bankrupt and you're going to. lose. I don't know 10 million bucks on that.

deal. And that's a piece of information you're. dealing with. Half an hour later. this actually happened to me today. One of my company's going public. It's a 450X for me. The stock will get unlocked sometime in. the fall but. how can how do you. how do you fit that together? Utter catastrophe, destruction, woe, loss.

utter euphoria. half an hour later. That's. that's what my life is like. That's. entrepreneurship. Obviously on a. different scale for most founders. Well, the founders deal with the same. thing. They get disastrous news. They. lose a an account like a Costco or. something if it's consumer goods or. service and they get something else. The the the ebb and flow is is the. management of expectations and your. ability emotionally to navigate those. ups and downs is part of what. entrepreneurship is but it goes back to.

the signal. It can't take you off the signal. This. is what Steve taught me. Yes, it's great news. Yes, it's bad news. but focus on the signal O'Leary. Focus. on the signal. That's it. Where does this analogy come. from of signal and noise? It was his. genius of a of of making it so simple. What are the three things you got to get. done today? What are they? What are. they? How do you know what they are? They will make themselves apparent. They. will definitely make themselves.

apparent. They will make themselves apparent and. you will realize I have to deal with. that. You may have them set up from the. day before. I actually still use sticky. notes on my mirror. Got to get these three things done. And or five thing or whatever it is, but. then something else will hit. That's the skill of understanding. Is. that noise hitting me or is that signal? There is the essence of the great. entrepreneur, the great manager, the. great leader. Is that signal or is that noise? What is.

it? That's what you're looking for. You're. hiring somebody that can actually. distinguish signal and noise. Because it could be noise. It could be. irrelevant. You have to determine only you makes. that decision. That's the key right there. This is what. I teach. entrepreneurs and engineers and. This is the most important thing. It's. not judgement of prioritization but then. the sort of force of execution to get it. done. Can you interpret signal and noise?

And can you keep the noise away from. from the things you got to get done? That's one. The other which is something. that I've learned over the last five. years. And this you might find this interesting. but most of my particularly the nascent. startups and you're you're involved in. the same format I am. You're Dragon's. Den in England. I'm Shark Tank in the. US. I you know, you put up 500,000 or a. million bucks into somebody's business. Eight eight out of 10 are going to fail,

maybe six out of 10 depend you just. don't know. And. I love it when people tell me, oh, I I. know. when I make an investment it's going to. work. They are so full of [ __ ] They They have. I'm talking about startups. They have no. idea what's going to work and you won't. know for 5 to 7 years, which is why you. need diversification in the portfolio, but. I would go as far to say now, you know, when I meet um.

venture capital firms and young analysts. that work there and they think they're. so damn smart, they've never operated a. business. They don't know nothing. They. have no idea what they're doing. They're. going to hope that one or two of their. portfolio is going to work out in 7. years and pay for all the other. mistakes. But the serendipitous nature of success. in entrepreneurship is brutal. It is. So that does that mean though that it's. I guess I was going to say does that not. mean that it's highly luck? If. investing's highly luck, entrepreneurship must be. Well, I said. karma, you know, I call it karma, but.

you need execution skills, but here's. another skill that I think we should. talk about. Um. when you look at at least my experience. over decades of making these. uh. nascent these early stage investments, these A round investments, remarkably, and I've done them in all 11. sectors of the of the economy, the. majority of the successes 5 to 7 years. later are companies run by women. Why is that? Why is that?

And so. they don't know each other, they're in. different sectors, they never meet each. other. Why is that? And I have come to. the conclusion. um. two things. They set goals that they can. achieve so that in the early stage of. their businesses, they put growth rate targets like 15, 16% versus men at 30% very often. Men. hit their target 65% of the time at. least in my portfolio and and women 90. [ __ ] plus per time percent of the. time. And that keeps the.

the team very sticky. They want to be. part of a so they don't have a lot of. attrition when they're small. They don't. lose the head of finance, head of. marketing. That that works. But they. have another attribute and this was. pointed out to me by one of my female. CEOs a few years ago to me. She said, "You know, Kevin, you talk too much. You talk too much. Um. you talk 2/3, you listen 1/3. Why don't. you try reversing the ratio?" She said. that to you? Yeah. Yeah. I'm very thankful, actually, cuz I tried. it.

And um she's right. If you don't talk. and you listen, you become far more. effective as a manager or an investor in. my case. by getting information that. you weren't going to get by talking. And. so, if you go into a room. I just did this a few minutes ago before. I came here. I'm involved in a. litigation. And we decided to attempt settlement. talks. Which is why I was a few minutes late. And um. you know, we knew we were going in there. to settle. And it it's long protruded, you know, a.

long It's a long long long. uh. litigation. And I remembered her as we sat at the. table like this. There were other people. in the room, but. the two uh. you know, we were across from each other. I just looked at him. I didn't say. anything. For a long time. A long time. And. it gets uncomfortable and no one else is. talking.

You know, just looking. And um. maybe after 90 seconds, he blurted out. something he shouldn't have said. And I knew exactly what the price was. Right there. That was the end of it. You learn that as a podcaster. You learn that there's actually. something going on in the silence. There. is something going on in silence and. it's it's. it's the number that he was going to. settle at.

He showed his hand. So, we saved. ourselves 2 hours, you know. It's a It's an attribute that many. people can't do cuz they can't stand the. social uncomfort of it. I have no. problem with it. I can sit here and look. at you for 10 minutes. It wouldn't. matter to me. And I've actually found it to be a very. useful piece of information. It's not. just in negotiating, but to listen to. employees, listen to investors, listen. to financiers, listen to alternate ideas. to yours, and become more powerful from it. You're in the very business of people. selling to you and pitching to you. We.

both sit on a similar show and my people. come in and pitch to us. You're seeing. at times 10 to 12 a day. So, you've. developed this muscle over the last. couple of decades now. Almost this instinctive spidey sense of. when an entrepreneur. will be successful, at least in the. context of securing investment. What. have you come to learn about the the. attributes of the ones that are. successful? Is there is there anything. one can take from that? In the moment when that entrepreneur. comes out on the carpet in the context.

of Shark Tank or Dragon's Den even, they need the set up shot of the product. with the entrepreneur and they have a in. our case a steady cam or a a jib that. comes down and shoots it. So, the the. stage director. Eric uh is his name. I've worked with. him for years. Says to the. entrepreneurs I've never met, usually. it's a team or it's a family or it's. whatever, three or four, two people, whatever. Hold. Hold. Hold. Don't speak. Hold. Hold.

Don't mind the camera coming into your. face. Hold. Hold. Maybe for. 2 minutes. And I'm right there in front of them. I'm 12 ft from them and I just look at. them. Not smiling, not blinking, not frowning, just looking at them. And before they say a single word, I. know if they're winners or losers. Just like that. And why is that? Why is that? When.

and I'm right probably 99% of the time. Maybe I get it wrong one out of 100. I. doubt it though. You walk in a room, even though you've. practiced, you know, you're in the. context of of Shark Tank, 20 plus. cameras, a billion plus dollars in in the five. chairs there. You've been practicing for. months your pitch, but it wasn't the. real deal. Here you are. Cameras are rolling, tape. is running. You know you've only got so many.

minutes. This is your moment. And you're on. national television, 100 plus million. people will see you in syndication. It's. all in your mind. It's all in your mind. It's going through your head. Can you project. who you are with your eyes and the way. you're standing? Can you project your. confidence? Are you looking at the ground? Are you. looking away from me cuz you can't stand. me looking at you directly without. saying anything to you?

Or do you push back? Or do you say I'm. going to I'm going to stake my aura. I'm. going to stake my ground here. I'm going. to show you I'm ready. See what I'm getting at? Yeah. And I can feel it. I can see that. they're ready to do battle. They're. ready to answer. They're ready to. present. They're ready, ready, ready, ready, or they're not. And. I've taken that out of the Shark Tank. I. see that every day in life. I see it. So, you have to learn how to project. yourself in front of your peers or who's.

who you want to you want to lead or. teach or if you're a general or a. preacher, that is maybe. an innate. something you're born with or maybe you. can learn that. I don't know. I don't. care. But if you don't have it, you're. going to fail. And you're just that's. before a word is spoken. It'll before the first word is spoken. And so, then what has to happen?

Then Eric says, "Go. You're on.". And everybody's just sitting there. looking at you. Can you articulate your idea in 90. seconds or less? Can you, whatever props. you have or whatever you're going to. say, can I get the big idea right away? The ones that had that aura generally. get there. 30 seconds later, I get it. I get what they're here for. I. understand their product. Okay, that's. good. Unfortunately, great ideas are.

dime a dozen. I mean, there's millions of them. The next phase begins. This is after 90. seconds. Can you explain why you're the. right person. to execute on this idea and create a. business from it because you know. something about this space. You worked. for a competitor. You've tried three. times before and failed. You figured out. what you did wrong. What is it about you. or your team that can take this. idea and make it happen?

Now, we get those two things together, you can feel the aura of the room. The isotope is sizzling because you've. de-risked a great idea. You got an. operator in it and they But then the. third thing, this is the killer. This is. the killer. I've seen it so many times in real life. and Shark Tank's real life it is, but. you got to know your numbers. How big is the market? How fast is it. growing? What's the gross margin? I've. said this a million times to people. I. teach this every day. How many competitors are there? When are.

you going to break even? What month? If you get the first two right and you. don't know your numbers, you deserve to. burn in hell and I'll put you there. myself. I mean, you wasted an opportunity for an. entrepreneur that did know their numbers. that could have been in that spot that I. could have invested in. You don't know. your numbers. I'd take you out behind the barn and. shoot you. You should have brought. somebody. that understands the language of. business because those three together. are the definition of leadership right. there. I've never heard someone talk about aura. in entrepreneurship quite like that. And. I was I was just trying to.

for the people listening that. are either trying to figure out if they. have an aura or to grow that aura, what. does it what does it look and feel like? Is it physically? Is it shoulders back? Is it You said it's eye contact. Or is it indescribable? And do you think. you could take someone who doesn't have. that aura. in business and. teach them it? Does business give you. that aura? I think you can teach it. I certainly. try and teach it to my children. Um. I try and teach it to my students.

And the best way to do it is to look at. yourself in the mirror sometime. You. know, just. what do you look like to yourself? You know, if you're going to go make a. presentation to take down a. million-dollar line of credit or. something, you want to dress the part, obviously. But you're going to walk in a room with, you know, a loan officer and maybe an. assistant, maybe one other, depending on. the size of the deal. And they all never met you, probably. And you're going to have to project.

yourself in those seconds as you're. walking up to shake their hands. What does that take? It takes an aura of. confidence, and it's in the eyes, it's. in the way you're you're standing, it's. in how the way you're dressed. It's It's. not a joke to be dressed for success. You know, it's it's um. it's. but it's it's something about presenting. yourself. and. keeping your eyes focused on who's. talking to you, so that they know that. you're absorbing the information, that.

you respect the information, that you're. about to get into a narrative with them. of respect, even though there may be. disagreements. All of this is happening. in the first 60 seconds, and it's. setting up for the rest of. your life with that person. It could be. who you're going to marry, it could be. who you're going to work with, it could. be your partner in business, it could be. your banker, it could be anybody. It. could be a soldier that's going to give. up their life for you. It's sort of. Who are you? That's it. Just closing off on the point.

you made about women being your most. successful investments and the companies. that have given you the greatest returns. tend to be led by women. Does that mean. that you focus on hiring women into. executive roles? Yeah, I'm practically. all women, um particularly Asian women. I am a uh you know, this whole thing. about. DEI and all this stuff, I've always had. diversity because I only hire on merit. I don't care. if what sex you are or what you call. yourself or what where you came from or.

the color of your skin or what planet. you were born on. I couldn't give a. [ __ ] Can you execute? And the way I hire people, and that's. why I have such a diverse staff in my. operating company, I don't hire you. I say, "Look, you. sound good and. you look great on paper, but that doesn't mean anything if you. can't work within the team. So, I know you want a job and you want. benefits and all that stuff, but I'm not. going to do that. If you want to be part. of my universe, you're going to work for. 4 to 6 months as a contractor at a much.

higher salary. cuz you're not going to get any stock. options, you're not going to get any. benefits, but I just want to see what it's like. for you to work with all of the people. that we deal with every day, all the. lawyers, all the bankers, all of the. you know, the CEOs that we have investments in and. and your co-workers because I don't. do 9:00 to 5:00 anymore. I do. project-based work. I don't care where. you live. We have people working in. Dubai, Abu Dhabi,

uh. England. I mean, everywhere, everywhere. And and you know, we meet we try and. find an hour every week where we can see. each other, but we're just constantly. communicating using modern-day tools. today. But, you know, can you actually be given a mandate. and execute on it? That's it. I don't care when you do it. If you have to get the financials out, let's say you're running in finance, you. got to get them out the 15th for taxes. I don't care when you do it, but if you.

miss the 15th, I care. So, I I need to find out if those people. can fit into that kind of an. environment. Some of them make it, some. of them don't. Some sometimes we know. right away after 90 days, you know, let's hire him, bring him in the team, and you know, let's give him the whole. package. And sometimes after a month we. say, "No, it's not going to work.". Here's like, you know, that's it. I. think I think more companies should do. that, actually. It's more like the Swiss. apprentice system. They bring you into a. lot like it, you know, my stepfather's. Swiss. I've been going to Switzerland. for 50 years. So, if you're a giant. company, like a Pfizer or a Nestle, you.

pull them out of high school at 14. You give them a job in the afternoon. They become an apprentice. They want to. learn. They want to work. They want to. understand what it's like. And then you. find the the winners at while they're. still in high school. Then you give them. summer jobs, and then you bring them. into the company. That's where I got the idea from. The. Swiss are genius that way. Cuz you're. sort of mitigating the risk, I guess. You're taking less of a a risk on this. No, but you're also finding out if their. their DNA is going to fit with your.

I mean, I want my team to make a ton of. money. I I just I want them to be. successful. I want every person to be proud to work. with the other and and just. we're almost invincible. We're so damn. good at what we do. You have the same. thing here. You you don't have people. that don't work for you well, you get. rid of them. You whack them. I'm more. just formal about it. Boom, you're gone. With with the investments that you've. made, how many investments, how many. offers have you done on Shark Tank now? Probably like Oh, I just We don't even. count it anymore. We look at the. portfolio rolling over 5 to 7-year.

period. A lot. Yeah, like a lot. And And the. thing is the thing what I've learned is. you get a you get an exit like uh. Basepaws from 5 years ago or something. Anaya from remarkable woman. That was. the the cat DNA Cat DNA thing. I mean, nobody saw that coming. I thought the. thing was a joke. Um I was so wrong. I mean, that's the. whole point and and she she had the. highest IRR in in I think in the whole. format's history. Nobody's made her she. was around for 36 months.

And taken out at such an extreme number. in all cash that there was an NDA signed. between Sony and the the pharmaceutical. company. I can't even tell you what it. was. It was extraordinary. It was an. extraordinary Was it nine figures? Believe me, it's a. tough NDA because and I understand why. they did it. They didn't buy it for the cat DNA. testing. They bought it for the data. Mhm. With AI didn't really wasn't emerging.

then. It would existed, but it wasn't. With the data they have now. they can develop products for animals. that are extraordinary in terms of feeds. and medicines. Yeah. And nobody had that. much data on the 110 million cats in. America because she got it all during. the pandemic. Thousands and thousands. and thousands of of you know. It was it was never about it was it was. a data company. It's like my son telling. me when he got his internship at Tesla. Hey Dad, it's not a car company. It's a.

data company. Mhm. Buy the stock. I said never mind the. stock. It's too joke. It's so expensive. He said, "You're an idiot. It's not a. car company." So I bought the stock. And. he was right. It became my most successful investment. I I had to keep selling it down to 5%. Uh my cost base is zero on Tesla now. [ __ ] you. Yeah, but before it split and. he worked there for 5 years. One of the personas that I have that. watches this show a lot are young people. not always young, but that are. on the sofa thinking about being an.

entrepreneur and they talk about it a. lot. You know, they they come up to me. in the street 2/3. will never do it. 2/3 will never do it. You you might as well do it when you. have less burdensome risk like a. mortgage and a family. You might as well. do it in your 20s. You're going to fail the first time, maybe the second, maybe the third. You. only need one success. You know, I had plenty of failures and I. I still have failures. I mean, it's. just, you know, that what I I talked. about this morning. It's, you know, when. I. I I, you know, I I tell I said to the. largest shareholders as as as as in the.

car and your assistant was, you know, looking at me in the limo. I was telling. the other two shareholders, "Listen, guys, it's it's a binary decision. As soon as. I get out of this interview, we're going. to make a decision. This company's going bankrupt. Oh, on. the bankrupt company. Yeah, that yeah. And so, if we want to. save it, everybody's going to have to. pony up X million. And um. we're going to own the whole thing. We're just going to own it all. We're. going to We're just going to do a. cram-down round at a fraction of a cent. We're going to own the whole thing. You. want to do that or you want to let it go. bankrupt? You guys choose. I'm 1/3 of.

it, so it's going to have to be, you. know, two against one. And I'll do whatever. they want because that's how I am. But. it's, you know, you want to get yourself. in a position in life that I think most. CEOs understand this. You are going to have bad outcomes. They're going to be bad outcomes. But never put yourself in a situation. where one bad outcome defines who you. are. I mean, for those shareholders, they're going to. be unhappy. But then I got the call on the IPO.

Those shareholders may be very happy. They're going to make 400 400X. So, it. and that was one of my deals. And so, it's sort of like. learn to live with the idea that. you are going to fail. You are going to. lose money by taking risk. Will it change relationships. permanently? Maybe. But if there if. you're respected and you're honest and. you're transparent, probably not.

I think there's a lot of people don't. like me for my bluntness. I don't care. I think a lot of people respect me for. my bluntness. They may not like me. And you know, it's sort of um. it doesn't matter because the only. people that really matter to me are. probably my 20 is closest friends and my. family. Do you think if you hadn't. worked with the known Steve Jobs, you. would be a different person? 100%. Steve changed my life. There's no. question. I didn't like him. But.

I feel so bad that he he didn't have to. die that way. He just wouldn't go with the modern. medicine at the time. That's my view. But he was a freaking genius. He was so smart in terms of. keeping on track to get getting stuff. done and look what he did achieved. But. he was. difficult. Difficult cuz he wasn't always right.

But he was right so much that the. mistakes just didn't matter. And I thought, you know, the people that. spent enough time with him. know what I'm talking about. Um. You know, it occurred to me cuz I know. Wozniak too, not as well as Jobs, but. they really needed each other. They really needed each other. Because Woz understood. he was he understood. what the.

Let me draw an analogy here for you. I. think it's a good one. Take the situation going on right now. with. Nvidia, AMD, to a certain extent Intel, um. maybe Broadcom, where policy makers in Washington have. decided that we can't sell those chips. to countries like China or Russia or. whatever the list is of adversaries. That's bad policy.

And here's why. What I learned from. from Jobs was. the the computer, the chip, is the queen. bee. It's It's the It's the queen bee. But it has no value without the. honeybees, which are the programmers. around that form a community that spend. all of their energy. writing code that works with the queen. bee, which is the chip,

that. pushes out its influence because every. coder that. becomes familiar with that firmware, that Wozniak computer, writes to that. platform. is part of the honeybees. Jobs understood that. He said, "I've got. to get every honeybee writing for the. Mac, writing for the OS of Apple.". It's the same with. the Nvidia chip.

We need to sell it to everybody. Every. Even adversaries because within. that country of Russia or China is some. genius kid. You don't know who he is or. she is that's going to write the next. piece of firmware or advance AI. from the queen bee, the chip, the American queen bee. The minute you shut down a market and. you don't.

your adversary sends their queen bee in, which is Huawei. We can't let that happen because I don't. think the lawmakers understand what Jobs. understood. You create the hive with the queen in. the middle. That's the chip. You convince every bee around. to make the honey, which is the software and is the AI. right in this in this case. You make it. off that chip and when you advance the. chip again, everybody knows how to take. that set. and.

stay within the American chip that. you're advancing. Maybe you keep them one generation. behind, maybe. Maybe that's the policy, but you don't ever let an adversary put. their queen bee in the middle of the. hive. You see what I'm saying? Of. course. I mean And that is what Jobs. did. That was the war between Gates and. Jobs on the OS, on the operating system. thinking about the App Store and. Yeah, it's the same thing. Yeah. It's exactly the same thing. And so so. when I see this policy now,

I go out of my mind. I mean, the first thing I do is get on a plane. and go to Washington because. AI is so important for all of the. investments I've made. I do not want to. be putting Chinese honey into my. companies at all. It's that simple. So for that person that's stewing over. their ideas now, if they had just a. couple of minutes with you. and they and they asked you the. question, Kevin, I'm about to start this. business. I'm about to go on this. journey of trying to go from zero to. something in my life. Is there anything else that I need to.

know as I set up upon this sort of next. 10 years of my life? I'm 21 years old. What what I cuz I think every. entrepreneur has like their principles. You you talked about one which is the. signal versus noise thing. Are there any. other foundational principles that you. think are conducive with success? That you might have learned. Yeah, I mean I've what I'm telling 20. 21-year-olds now is look, go work for 24 months in a sector you. love that you're passionate about, even. if they don't pay you. Go in there and be an apprentice. Um.

if you're that passionate, you're going. to be able to convince some manager to. go work for free in there. You're just. they're going to recognize your passion. and. they're going to bring you in. Do that first. Most. young entrepreneurs say, "Nah, nah, I. don't want to work for anybody." I said, "Yeah, you do actually. You you do want. to work for somebody. You want to just. understand how all the cogs move." Just. 24 months. And after that, launch. The first one will probably fail. You're going to start with your parents. giving you 10,000 bucks or whatever it.

is, friends and family. But you will have the baseline knowledge. of your industry. You will know who the. participants are. You will understand. how it works. And you'll have a much higher. probability of success. But the key is. to launch sort of in your. in your mid to early 20s because you. need to burn a few years failing. And. and that that matters. On the point of how to lead people, when people hear about Jobs' approach, they. sometimes assume that you also have to. be an [ __ ].

And this is the this is the conflicting. thing because the world has changed. since Jobs was in a leadership position. Things have gone a little bit more. soft, shall one say. Have you seen all all types of. leadership win out in that regard? The. direct, you know, signal-focused, kind of brash approach, but also the. kind approach. I know that kind works. I think respect. works. I I. The same number of [ __ ] are out. there being successful now as they were.

back in the '90s. Um. it doesn't matter. um. whether you're an [ __ ] or whether. people like you or not. I mean, people. get so stuck on this stuff. It It's. the team you're building. are not your friends. They are the team you're building to. execute on a mandate. Your customers come first. They're more. important. And then, of course, the. employees and how are they respected or. not. There are people that work for me I. don't like.

It doesn't matter. I respect them. I. respect their ability. to execute. And that above all is the. most important thing. If you start. getting into interpersonal. relationships, you will fail because you. may have to fire that person one day. People that hire family take huge risk. Nepotism is a horrible disease. It's It's uh some of the greatest uh. private companies on Earth. never let the kids run them. They just. put them on the board and they hire. professional management. That's how they. keep wealth multi-generational.

Think about Tetra Pak, for example. People may not know that name, but it's. a massive successful company. IKEA. I. mean, you know, it's sort of you have to. learn those lessons. It's It's um. It's about respect. in both directions. It's not about. likeability. or softness or. some social. met- metric. It really isn't. And. trying to redefine leadership that way.

because it's on trend, it's not going to work. I started my first business at 12 years. old, and then I started more businesses. at 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18. And at that. time, what I didn't realize is that. being a founder with no money meant that. I also had to be the marketer, the sales. rep, the finance team, customer service, and the recruiter. But if you're. starting a business today, thankfully, there's a tool that wears all of those. hats for you. Our sponsor today, which.

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What about finding the definition of the. word company as a of people? So, in. terms of finding great people, is there anything that you can offer to. entrepreneurs that are listening about. how you've done that and what you've. learned over time, the mistakes you've. made with assembling your group of. people? Yeah, hiring them without testing them. first. I've made that mistake. So, so you now test them first. Yeah. Just cuz someone says they can execute. doesn't mean they can. I mean, it's of. course in your interview, you're not. going to say I can't execute. You know, you're looking at their past you're.

saying this looks terrific. Looks like. you can fit in, but it's on a piece of. paper. They haven't been road tested. They haven't put in a situation where. they have to make individual decisions. that that have consequence. The people. you want are able to make decisions that. have consequence. Good bad good. consequence bad consequence. You don't. know yet, but they have to have be able. to make that decision on their own. without calling you up because you gave. them that mandate. Maybe you put a set. of parameter you can spend a million. bucks no more, but they're calling me, but whatever it is.

I don't want to hear from them. I just. want the outcome. What about resilience and hard work? How. much does that matter to you? Cuz I know. you said they can work when, you know, they as long as they get the job done, but are you trying to figure out if they. are. a bit of a psychopath in terms of hard. work? If they're possessed themselves. find the ones that are psychopaths hard. worker actually the most successful. It's not the case. I find the ones that. are eclectic people that have other. pursuits that are nothing to do with the. business they're in.

That. do crazy stuff. You know, maybe it's. riding motorcycles in the desert. I. don't know you know, these are the. examples I'm just using cuz I'm living. with them. And say, look, I've got to go and ride a. bicycle across the the desert. Okay. How many days you're going to be. gone? I don't know, maybe three. Okay. Is. there anything that is immediate? That tells me that. if you look at if you look at the year's. outcome from that person, you're going. to find that they probably outperformed.

You You want You want You want the. eclectic ones. You want the ones. that are not just robots working. It's. It's going to be cheaper to get a robot. if you want a robot. I'm going to buy. those two when they come available. But, I want people that have creative. and. unusual solutions. that, you know, just think outside of. the box. It's It's really interesting that way. The other thing that, um,

everybody wants to hear from you about. is how to keep and grow your wealth. Because, you know, making wealth I kind. of understand through the lens of. entrepreneurship, take a big bet, um, hopefully have an exit or, you know, draw a dividend or make profit from a. company you started. But, in terms of. what you did and your relationship with. your money, what are the most important. things for someone to understand who's. just trying to grow their money? Yeah, yeah, and I learned this from my mother, and I actually built a whole indexing. company around it. When I was very. young, I found out something, uh, that,

um, So, she, um, was fiercely independent. She was one of. three daughters, uh, of Lebanese. descent. My Irish was father My father. My original father, biological father, was Irish. She didn't Yeah, there she is, Georgia. So,

I haven't seen that picture in a while. Okay. She was very independent. And. she never ever wanted a man to control.

her life. So, she. started at an early age when she was. working for her father. They paid the girls, the family all. worked there, and she worked in the. accounting department. and billing, but she got paid cash. And. so, she. would take 20%. of that cash each week. And. she would put it into two asset classes. Stocks that paid dividends, large cap.

stocks, and Telco bonds. Seven-year Telco bonds paid about 6 and. 1/2 to 8% back then. She bought the long bonds. And she had that portfolio for 55 years. Wow. Um she never spent any of the. principal. Only the dividends and the. interests. She put my brother and I. through college, and you know, she took. care of her family and her sisters when. they. fell on hard times.

But her rule was very simple. No more than 5% in any one stock or bond. of the portfolio, and no more than 20%. in any one sector, ever. Ever. So, when a stock ran up past five, she'd sell it down. This is not genius. This is just diversification. And. when she passed and I I was the older. brother and I saw the portfolio, cuz the lawyer said, "Listen, you got to. come down here. You're the executor of. the will." And I said, "Yeah, but you. know, my mother was middle class.".

He said, "No, you got to come down here. Um she kept her accounts secret from. both of her husbands. She wanted her own independent money. And back then you could do that. And um. damn, I mean, what that portfolio did. The performance was extraordinary. It. was beyond any. hedge fund guy or anything. 55 years. When I saw the results, I said, "That's. it. That's how I'm going to invest for. the rest of my life." Exactly the way. Georgette did. No more than 5%.

in any one stock ever, no matter no. matter what it is, and no more than 20%. in any one sector with the exception of. real estate, which is a very large part. of what I have in net worth. And I. That's a It's a third. So, that's broken. the rule, but there's reasons for that, and I'm very happy with that portfolio. But, um that if she if you if everybody. that's listening to this does that, they will maintain and grow their.

wealth. But, it's people bet they make. big bets. They're just They think. they're so damn right, they put half. their net worth into one sector or one. stock, and they get wiped out. That's. what happens. So, would your mother pick the stocks. herself, or would she invest in an index. fund or She indexed. She used to So, okay. Even even back then, you know, they. didn't have ETFs, but they had mutual. funds that said their own only stock in. this mutual fund is doesn't have any. debt, and it pays dividends, you know,

whatever. They were very rudimentary. back then. They were just collections of. stocks. I think she had like. thir- 28 names or something like that in. the portfolio. But, if you looked at. them, they were really boring large cap. names. But, they were sec- totally. diverse. There wasn't 10 sectors back. then. There was only There there wasn't. 11, there was 10. So, they didn't have real estate as a. sector. So, but you know, I looked at it. saying, "Wow, these are really boring.". You learned a lot about money from your. early upbringing, right? From your that. early context. Yeah, because what she.

said to me was, "Look, you know, I I even do this today with wealthy. people call me up all the time and say, "Look, um. you know, they get divorced. It's really. I I This is a very wealthy woman got. divorced recently and she said, "Look, I. you know, I'm divorcing and. she was a billionaire. She was divorcing. She was more multi-billionaire and so. she said, "Look, I I I'm getting. Everybody's calling me up um. to be my advisor cuz I'm separating from.

my husband and it's all his guys that. did all the management of our family. wealth. "Would you be my advisor?" I said, "No, I don't do that. Um. but you know, I can. I can just give you some basic advice. and you can hire people to stick on the. mandate." And I gave her Georgette's. strategy, but she I I had to do. something else, too. I said, "Let's get. a piece of paper. You're a billionaire. Let's put everything on this piece of. paper on the last 90 days that you've. spent on whatever the hell it is. I. don't care. And let's put on No computer, no.

spreadsheet. On this Let's look at all. the income that you've made off your. portfolio as it stands now, whether it's. gold you have or land or stocks or. bonds. Let's just do a gut check. on. do you outspend yourself? She said, "Why would I give a shit?" I. said, "Wouldn't you like to know. how much money you're burning living. your lifestyle the way you live it? Just. out of interest. Maybe you have enough. for the rest of your life, but maybe you. want to give some of it to your family.

when they are or give it to charity. Wouldn't you like to know? Because one of my rules is never. outspend yourself on any 30- or 60-day. cycle, ever. Just ever. I don't have any. debt. So So I'm very careful about that. And we went through this little thing. She freaked out. She was. pissing away money. Just bleeding. hundreds of thousands of dollars a week. I mean, I don't care how rich you are. You don't want to be stupid. And.

I said, "Does that shock you? One of the. things that has to happen I mean, you're. you're losing millions of dollars a. quarter. Like. Why? Why? Like you don't you have you've had. nobody restrict what you do with your. money cuz you're going to have to sell. stocks at some point or sell gold or. sell land to keep this up. And are you really that happy? Like what. do you what's all this [ __ ] you're. buying? Like what is all this crap that. you don't need? It was an eye-opener for. her. So I My point is most people don't.

do that exercise. I don't care if you're. only making 56,000 a year or 68 the. average salary. So are you in the camp that you. shouldn't spend money on the small. things like the coffee if you don't need. it you should make the coffee at home? Is that kind of I I just I can't stand. it when I see kids that are making 70. grand a year. spending $28 for lunch. I mean that's just stupid. It's just. think about that in the context of that. being put into an index and making 8% 8. to 10% a year for the next 50 years.

What's an index for someone that doesn't. So okay. I mean. you know. I even have it I even built an app for. this purpose just so I could There's. many apps out there you don't have to. use mine. Mine's called Beanstocks but. you just allocate 15% of your salary and. it automatically puts it into two. buckets some stocks and some bonds. The. stocks are ETFs exchange-traded funds. that just track the S&P 500 very simply. Mine's a little The S&P 500 is the top. 500 stocks. Yeah so it's just you know people will. tell me oh I can beat the S&P P I can. pick stocks. They're so full of crap.

Not over the long period they can. So. it's better you might as well just own. ETFs. I have a version of the S&P that I. designed with other people that strips. out all the crappy balance sheets but. that's just me. You can just buy the. index that you want you know the ETF and. then you pay low fees and then over time. it appreciates and then if you buy some. treasury bills or what fixed income you. get that. You should have less of those. when you're young and more of them when. you're older just just diversification. But. you you know. the best test I do with my kids' friends. too. Go into a closet. Go into your.

closet, and look at how much [ __ ] you. have you don't wear. Because you either bought it cuz you. thought you were going to wear it. and never wore it or wore it once, and. you end up wearing 20% of your portfolio. all of the time and 80% you you pissed. away. I mean, that's really stupid. And so, for a young person, a young woman or. man, don't do that. Start putting in just. buy the minimum stuff. And another thing. in my life with my mother, this is.

interesting cuz I saw it happen at her. death. She, you know, would buy two Chanel jackets a. year. Really expensive Chanel jackets. Handmade Chanel jackets. I do business with Chanel because of, you know, the legacy of my mother and. the whole Coco Chanel thing and watches. I love those guys. And. her theory was, this will never get old. And it never did. A classic vintage. Chanel jacket from the '50s, this.

well-kept, is worth a fortune today. The classic It. still wears beautifully. They're so well. made. So, she wouldn't buy crap. She'd. buy really good stuff, but a little just. small amounts of it. And over the years, she'd built up this portfolio of amazing. clothing. And when she died, the women. in in our family had a cat fight over. her portfolio. Unbelievable. Is that in. part why you have so many watches? I've. noticed you have a watch on either wrist. right now. Yeah, I'm pretty big in watches. I mean, but but watches to me, every piece I have.

marks something in my life that was. important. A deal, a child, graduation, um. you know, something. Every piece. I've. got a lot of watches. How many have you. got? I I don't even say anymore cuz of. the insurance policy I have. I got a. lot. Do you invest in You You're talking. about your your mother's investing. strategy, and one of the things you said. is she invested in dividend stocks. Yes. What is a dividend stock, and. should I be investing in dividend. stocks? Yeah, I mean, you know, a if. it's profitable and it's operating and. its business plan is working and it's.

growing market share, at some point. says, "I'm going to distribute some of. the success of our profits to our. shareholders." That's a dividend. And so, they send that cash to you and. you can either redeploy it in other ways. or live off it or whatever. Many tech. stocks until recently did not pay. dividends, but now the behemoth tech. stocks do pay dividends because the. demand of an aging population is I need. to eat. And so, I like to own the stock. for growth, but I also want to get some. of the profits. And so, dividend-paying. stocks used to be utilities, but not so.

today. Every Every sector has. dividend-paying stocks, so I prefer to. own dividend-paying stocks, div payers. And then I also own fixed income. products. I also own crypto now and I. own alternative assets like gold and. watches. My watch collection's actually. done quite well, even though there's. been a correction. There's volatility, but I have some watches that have, you. know, I bought for. 200,000 and worth over a million today. Crypto. So, are you still bullish on crypto as an. investment? I am actually, but people.

get crypto confused with its real. potential. Um. Uh. let's talk about digital payment systems. because what's about to pass first, we're days away from this happening, is. the Genius Act, which is actually the. stable coin act. It was just passed by. the Senate 48 hours ago. It's going back. to the house. I I actually worked on. that bill 2 years ago. So, if that bill. passes, it's really nothing to do with. speculating on crypto. It's a new form. of payment. So, if I wanted to order a. watch in from Simon Birch, who's. somebody I buy watches from, he's a.

master watchmaker, right now I have to take US dollars. I've got to get through a know your. client prerogative. I'm treated like a. criminal by transferring 100,000 dollars. over, turn it into Swiss francs. Takes. about a week. I get screwed for about. 200 basis points in the whole thing. If I If he accepted USDC, which is. actually. a stable coin backed by the US dollar, just went public, very successful IPO. I. was a shareholder in that company, too. That's one of my best IPOs in in the. last 2 years. The transaction would. happen in less than a second.

And. the fees would be a hundredth of what. the costs are right now. So, it's a. digital payment system. The price. doesn't. It's not It's not It's no speculation on. it. It's backed by the US dollar. Treasury bills. So, it's sort of. a new form of of digital payment. That's different than Bitcoin, which is. a speculation. It's If you believe in. Bitcoin, you think it's a digital gold, and you live through the volatility. I believe in both. I believe that that.

crypto will be the. 12th sector of the S&P in some period of. time because it provides productivity to. all 11 other sectors. So, the way I own. it is I own. the exchanges. My exchange of in one called WonderFi up. in Canada just got acquired last week or. 2 weeks ago by Robinhood. I'm happy cuz I think Vlad who runs. Robinhood is great. And now he's got a. million plus accounts in Canada in. market that he'd never participated in. But the point is. this is never going away. It's going to.

stay forever. So, how do you. participate? You can buy some Bitcoin, just like you can buy gold, buy it in. ETF or actually own it yourself. You can. buy the exchanges. You can use. um you know, you can buy Circle stock. now it's public. You can Circle makes. USDC. You can buy USDC in in an account. and make 4.1% interest on it right now. So, there's a lot of ways to. participate, but yes, I'm here to stay. But I've grow I've grown up. I was. around during the period where the. crypto cowboys lived. And and I survived.

that all. And I even testified in front. of the Senate and the House and whatever. else the testimonies were during the the. tumultuous period. And most of those. guys went to jail. Your portfolio in. terms of Bitcoin allocation or crypto. allocation, what is it now? It's at. about all in. Uh. we we marked to market last month, it. was 19.1%. 19.1%? Yeah, we have to keep it under 20. It's. a sector, so. But remember, in that is. the cryptos itself, Bitcoin, the USDC, and the shares of the infrastructure. companies, like Circle and everything.

else. I've got, you know, it was a very. successful IPO. One of the first things. most people do when they get a bit of. money, usually from their their job, is. they get a mortgage on a house. Because we're kind of taught as we grow. up that the best way to make or that. not maybe the best, but the most obvious. way to create wealth is to buy your. first home. Yeah, there's a very basic rule for. that, and I understand it, and I did the. same thing. But what I made sure again from my. mother was. never let. the mortgage and the cost of maintaining.

the house be more than 1/3. of your income. 1/3 of your income. If it's more than 1/3, you bought too. much house. So, it's better to buy a house that's. maybe it's only going to be 1,900 square. feet to start in a neighborhood that you. may not want to stay in for the rest of. your life, but. start to accrue the benefit of real. estate from that point of view, learn. how to manage it, maybe you rent part of. it out or whatever, but it can't be more. than a third of your income. The mistake. that people made and they're starting to.

suffer from it now is when money was so. cheap, mortgage mortgage rates were. under 4%, they were 3.2% some of them. They bought massive houses. And now they're running into having to. refinance those houses at much higher. rates, more than 7%. And it's becoming 60, 70, 80% of their. income. They're screwed. They bought too much house. So, it's. about making sure that you can manage. that, and also you want some. diversification. Yes, a mortgage is. okay, particularly if you're having a family, cuz you're going to pay rent or you're.

going to pay a mortgage, one of the two. But you want some diversification and to. starting to build up that. investment account for when you retire, so that you have something to live off. If you only put aside 15%. If you're. you're making 70,000 a year and you put. 15% aside from when you're 25, you'll have over a million and a half. dollars if you just invested it in the. stock index, in the S&P 500. That's what. That's what history has told you. In. what time frame? Your whole career. I mean, you're going. to be 65. You're 25, 65. You just stick.

with that protocol and you'll watch it. grow. You'll watch it grow. You go up. and down as the market goes up and down. Some years it'll go flat, whatever, but. it's the people that don't even think. ahead and find themselves at 45 mired in. debt including a mortgage. You want to. get rid of your mortgage in your 40s. Most people's primary investment asset. is the house they buy. Is that a small. Yes, it is, but it's also the debt they. own. It's a primary asset. How much debt. does it have on it? It's only the equity. value is the asset. So, if you're buying.

a house that's too big and it's you've. only put down 10% and it's a 90%. mortgage, what do you really own? You. really own the 10%. at whatever price it is. Sometimes. housing goes flat for a while. It's. It's okay, but it's not okay if it's too. much house. If you're a 25-year-old and. you're on that 70k that you talked. about, and your objective was to make money, you don't have kids, you don't you don't. have a relationship, would you buy a house? No.

No, I wouldn't because why do I need a. house if I'm only unless I'm renting it. as an income property. I'm buying a. house because I'm getting married and. I'm going to raise a family. I need a. house. I mean, that Is that the use case. for buying a house you thought? I think. it is. People But you know, it's not. There are many people that say, "Oh, I. love real estate. I'm going to buy three. houses. I'm going to rent them out.". That's a different business. And I know. people in their 20s that do that. In. fact, they're successful. That's all. they do. And so, that their job is to. find houses, buy them, fix them up, and. rent them. And they manage that. geographically tight portfolio. It.

happens a lot in student housing, for. example. I've got a good friend who's involved in. student housing. He's very successful. He just focuses on one aspect, buildings. that rent to students, and he manages. it. And he, you know, raises a family, he's successful, but that's one thing he. does. That's not the same as saying I'm. going to buy a house cuz I'm I just got. married, and I'm going to raise I'm. going to have a child in the next 24. months. Then you should have a house. But if. you're You said to me, "I'm single, I. want to make money." I wouldn't buy a. house. That's not the number one asset. class, I think. I'd get a diversified. portfolio,

and just ride the pony with that for a. while until I meet that special person. I'm going to, you know, raise a family. with, and then I'd have a little nest egg I. can work with. I mean, wealth creation. comes down to one word, discipline. That's it. The ability to look at something and. say, "I'm not going to buy that. I'm going to keep that money working for. me.". Not many people have that discipline. Wealthy people have that discipline. You.

meet them later in life, you realize when they were young and had. nothing, even the ones that were employees their. whole lives that are now financially. free, had the discipline to say no. There's so much stuff you don't need. And you should never buy a watch unless. you can afford it, ever go in debt for a. watch cuz people hear this stuff say, "I'm going to buy watches like O'Leary's. red bands." No, you're not. That's why I. wear watches now that cost under $500 to. show kids, you want to get into. horology, you don't have to spend, you. know,

$50,000. Here's a. Here's a Timex for $265. It looks. beautiful. Get that. You said, you know, don't buy the house. until you meet your partner, etc. How much does the person that you fall. in love with have an impact on your. finances, your money, your chance of. success in your view? It's everything. Are you kidding? I mean, it's it's. everything. If you read I mean, think. about this. You need to find somebody. If you're an. entrepreneur, so that's for the We're. talking about the third now that want to. go on the rocket ship ride.

You better find somebody that's willing. to tolerate the fact that you're never. home for the first 10 years. They're. going to raise a family by themselves. because. there's no balance in life. That that. idea of balance is complete [ __ ] I. mean, it's just [ __ ]. You have to work so hard to compete. globally these days in every sector. You're going to work your ass off and. it's not going to happen over I mean, Anna Sky did it in 3 years, but she had. worked much harder previously. It was. not her first deal. But she was just lucky. I mean, she Was.

this the cat DNA? Cat DNA. I mean, she she she she she But. she's you know, she's she's working. again. She's back She wants to work. I. mean, that's what happens. You never. stop working. But the thing is. that partnership. and this is what people don't get about. marriage. Marriage is a business. I know people go. nuts when I say that, but it's a. business and. the first child you're going to have is. money. It's going to be the first child and. it's going to sit at the table with you.

every day. It's It's there. Sitting. there. If you don't have money, you don't have. a marriage. I mean, the reason people. get married is to form a form of. financial stability so that they can. afford a family. And you have to figure out. you know, I'm I'm I've been with my wife. a long time and we've been separated for. a couple of years, but you know, family. is very important to me, so I we got. back together again and we and you know, our daughter got back together. I'm very. happy we did it. But it's. we make financial decisions together. We.

we always check in. You know, anything that's material. you know, if we're going to do a. renovation or something and and I. respect her for that. I have a lot of. respect for her because she doesn't just. spend money. We didn't have any money. when we started. We had nothing. And so. that's why a great marriage can work. because you build it together. You. really care about it. You care about. your family. You also care about what. you you've created in wealth. And I. consider my money her money. Like it's. cuz she was the family that let me go. and do the stuff. Now, I don't have the. same relationship with our kids that she.

does because she raised them. But that's. the thing you give up and you have to. give something up. That's it. You can be. a great father, great provider, but. you're never going to have the closeness. that she had reading them stories when. they were young. I wasn't there. But, you know, the outcome has been good. I. think everybody looks at that and says, "All right, that's great.". But my mother never believed in. entitlement and so I don't believe in it. either. I'm not gifting my kids a ton of. money. You know, I I want them to launch and they've done. that successfully. They got to They got.

to work, you know, they got to do their. thing. I've heard you say before that the most. important financial decision you'll ever. make is who you'll marry. Yes. Why? Because think of the geometric loss of. wealth. Every time you get divorced, you pay the woman that you divorced or. man and you pay the government. a third often through capital gains and. liquidation because you can't separate. all the assets without liquidating them. sometimes. So you've got the government.

sitting there, you've got the other. spouse sitting there. This is the. stupidest thing you can ever do. It took. your whole life to. to actually create this nest egg. Could. be, you know, you're 45 or whatever. You've You've got a comfortable life and. all of a sudden you don't like your wife. or husband. Think about that for a while. Because you are going to wipe out up to. two-thirds of your wealth. You better. really like somebody else a lot. And frankly,

sometimes it's not the other person that. you're divorcing. It's you. You're the. problem. If you're getting married for. the third time, you're a guy or woman, it's not them. It's you. There's. something wrong with you and you should. probably not get into another economic. union. You should probably just date. till you drop dead because it's stupid. Marriages are tough. I mean, they're. tough. Anybody who's been married for. more than 20 years knows exactly what. I'm talking about. But they have they. accrue more benefit than than, you know,

anything. So it is like if you're happy. 51% of the day with your wife, stay with. him or her, husband or wife. You That's. very important. How often do you think. divorces are a result of money issues? Well, you may be shocked at this. I wrote a book. um about this and I decided uh men, women, and money a long time ago, 10. years plus. Right. There it is. And I did some research and I. I uh went to meet some of the top um. divorce lawyers in North America.

in New York, in Boston, and other cities. And I said, "Look, I I want to kind of. do a pie chart of the reasons for. divorce that seemed to 50% seemed to end. in divorce within 5 to 7 years.". Every one of them, they didn't know each. other, said, "It's not infidelity. Nothing to do with it. Most marriages. can. uh survive infidelity. They can't survive financial stress. And so what happens invariably is. you fall in love, but you didn't do any.

due diligence on that person's spending. habits or their financial history. because l'amore is so wonderful in the. early days, you didn't do any diligence. on their family or them or their brother. or bankruptcy in the past or whatever it. is. And then you get married and, you know, the euphoria starts to wear off and you. notice that. the other is outspending you. Just buying a lot of stuff.

Beyond your means. And that starts the first friction. And then that credit card comes in with. a $100,000 on it at 23% interest and. another. purse was bought or whatever the hell it. is. And you're you're starting to sink. because you may have married somebody. who can't stop spending. This is just a. typical. There are people that can't have no. discipline. They just can't. They got to.

have the boat, they got to have this, they got to have that, and they pressure. their other to say, "Look, I want to. keep up with the Joneses next door.". even though they may only each have a. salary of a hundred grand each. Can't do it. And they have kids and. they're trying to put them through. college. That's divorce. That's why. almost 90% of of unions break up is is. is that classic. financial pressure. And divorce gets. them out of that mess because they can.

no longer spend on your credit card. anymore, but it's a horrible way to go. So, I've you know, I'm I'm an investor. in a company called HelloPrenup that. does divorces for uh does um. uh prenups for women. And prenups force. during the euphoric period diligence. It's that simple. You're going to find out if that person. has a financial problem going into the. marriage. They have to disclose. their financial background. So, you you talk about these five love. languages of money. The mooch, someone who won't pay for.

anything. Right. Should I date someone. like that? It's a warning signal. It's a. problem. It's a problem so. Or they don't really want you for. companionship. They just want you for. financial support. The spendaholic, someone who always. offers to pay for everything to appear. popular and successful. Bad warning sign. Huge. I mean, that. isn't that is insecurity measurable by. cash outlay. The loafer, someone who has no ambition. and drive for money. Avoid with extreme.

prejudice. The thief, someone who steals. You can. have no tolerance for that. And the. meanie, a balanced spender who lives. within their means. Love that. Marry a. meanie. That's it. That's That's the Those are. the marriages that last an entire life. That's it. That's what you're looking. for. That's great advice right there. Whatever the book costs, that's that's. the best value right there. And then ask yourself, am I dating one. of these or not? You know?

You know, you should talk about money on. the third date. Think about a date Think. about dating. First date, oh my goodness, this is a. really interesting person. Um or not. Then there's your second date. Second. date, I want to learn more. I'm really interested. You're going into. a third date, there's something going. on. There's something going on. You both. want to meet again. That's the first time you should say, "Look, I know this is crazy, but. we're here together a third time because. something's going on here. And I'm just. wondering,

what are your long-term goals? I mean, it's not about our marriage or anything. else other than we're having a great. time, but what are your ambitions? I'm. really interested in you. I'd like to. know what you think.". And then maybe the woman says or the guy. says, "What are you checking me out?". You say, "Yeah. Yeah, I'm really interested in you.". It's a form of. finding out if the connection, you know, I I I should be a marriage counselor. That's what I think. I mean, it's it's. really. Dating is is the is the dance, but it. should involve exploring where we're.

going financially. For many years, you've probably seen. this iPad sat in front of me. You've. probably wondered what's on it, and I'm. going to tell you today because they're. now our show sponsor, thankfully. It's. an app called Goodnotes, and it's where. I store all of my research, all of my. information, but also where I take notes. in real time when the guest is speaking. to me. I love this app because it's so. dynamic, but also because of this new. feature, which is called Ask Goodnotes. It's basically my AI companion. I can. search the 200 pages sometimes of notes. and information that I have in front of.

me in just seconds. I can type into the. Ask Goodnotes feature, "What was the. name of Kevin's mother?" I'm speaking to. Kevin O'Leary on the podcast. He starts. talking about his mother. I have a. couple of seconds to figure out what. she's called so I can ask him a question. about her in a polite way. Ask GoodNotes. to look through all of my notes, respond. back to me in seconds. If you're someone. that loves taking notes but your notes. are a mess and you can't read your own. handwriting, I may, I think GoodNotes. might be the solution for you. And Ask. GoodNotes, which is their new AI.

feature, might just be the tool that. turns you into an organized person. That's certainly how it feels for me. So. I asked GoodNotes if they would give my. listeners a 30-day free trial to try it. out and they've given us one on iOS and. Mac. So if you want to use that 30-day. free trial, go to goodnotes.com/doac. or sign up now for your yearly. subscription for just $9.99 per year. That's $9.99 per year. Go to. goodnotes.com/doac. I've built companies from scratch and.

backed many more. And there's a blind. spot that I keep seeing in early-stage. founders. They spend very little time. thinking about HR. And it's not because. they're reckless or they don't care. It's because they're obsessed with. building their companies and I can't. fault them for that. At that stage. you're thinking about the product, how. to attract new customers, how to grow. your team, really how to survive. And HR. slips down the list because it doesn't. feel urgent. But sooner or later, it is. And when things get messy, tools like. our sponsor today, JustWorks, go from. being a nice-to-have to being a.

necessity. Something goes sideways and. you find yourself having conversations. you did not see coming. This is when you. learn that HR really is the. infrastructure of your company and. without it, things wobble. And JustWorks. stops you learning this the hard way. It. takes care of the stuff that would. otherwise drain your energy and your. time, automating payroll, health. insurance benefits, and it gives your. team human support at any hour. It grows. with your small business from startup. through to growth, even when you start. hiring team members abroad. So if you. want HR support that's there through the. exciting times and the challenging.

times, head to just works.com now. That's justworks.com. One of the bigger protagonists in the. story of many things we discussed, money, investing, building businesses. now is this thing called artificial. intelligence which you mentioned. earlier. Yes. It's like entered the room. Yes. And it's changing lots of these. equations in a really profound way. Again, for that person who is maybe at. the start of their career or even, you. know, they're they're a lawyer right. now. How are you thinking about AI? What. should they be thinking about? Because I. don't think we've seen something quite.

like this. Not certainly not in my. lifetime. I've not seen disruption of. this scale. I wasn't around for the dot. com boom. I was too young. I was 10 or. something. I was eight. Yeah. So so how should we be thinking about. this moment? Is it a huge opportunity. for wealth creation or Yeah, it's. immense. It's bigger than the internet. and I'll tell you why. I want to keep it down to earth because. I'm actually using it now in use cases. There's every sector of the economy, every aspect of research, every aspect. of business has a huge opportunity here. But let's just take use cases that you.

would understand, everybody listening. would understand. In today's post-pandemic world. most businesses have developed, large or. small, direct-to-consumer strategies. where they try and build relationships. with customers and sell them product. direct. Yeah, they still use retail. Say you're Nike or something. And. you we were 27%. you know, direct-to-consumer before the. pandemic, you're now 50%. And and. direct-to-consumer gets you higher. margins but also gets you data. Gets you. information about the preferences of.

your customer base, what they like, what. they don't like, the flavors and what. they buy, when they buy, where they buy. it, all that stuff. That's very interesting that data. And. let me give you an example, wine. business. If you think about. the wine business, the challenge of a. thousand-year-old business. You don't know what the weather's going. to be like. You don't know what. varietals to to to grow because you. don't know what the preference of the. customer is because you're selling it. through multiple tiers of distribution. During the pandemic, 43 states in.

America opened up direct-to-consumer. sales from the wineries in the West. Coast. For the first time ever, the. wineries found out. what people buy, where they buy it, when they buy it, what they drink, what varietals. And I'm. in the wine business. I sell over 3. million bottles a year of wine. One of my companies, actually a Shark. Tank company. Um and we partner with a. company called. QVC. We sell online. And And so, I can tell you today, this month, this week, the number one. varietal in Southern Florida for women.

ages 44 to 64 is Moscato, a sweet wine. I think it tastes like [ __ ] I don't. care what I think. It's the number one wine right now. And. I knew that to to make that varietal. available. 6 months ago, so that I would be able to. ship it and put the inventory, the CapEx. in the right place at the right time to. support that demand for the rest of this. summer. A sweet, cold Moscato wine. That means I spent a lot less money.

and a lot less risk. I don't have any. varietals they don't want this summer. I. have exactly what they want. That was. AI. It cost me virtually nothing to get that. data. 5, 10 years ago would have cost me a. million bucks to go do all the market. research. I got that for $18,000. So, that's using an AI tool. Here's. another example. So, do I use that tool? 100%. And there's many tools. You don't. have to just use chat There's many. different competing platforms. So, we.

use them all. We check the assumptions. by checking it all on all of them to see. the little variances. Number two. I have to shoot an ad. I have to shoot a commercial. I'm going to shoot it here in LA. I'm. going to do it in a studio like this. with a green screen. And I'm going to. spend, you know, $250,000 for a 30 you. know, 15, a 30, and a 60 out of the same. shoot. And I'm then going to go into post with. the green screen and I'm going to spend. more money in post. I'm going to add. whatever I need, whatever background I'm.

going to need. Or. I could fly to Dubai. where they have a giant studio with a 6K. digital wall. where AI links up your script. to the background. There is no post-production. You. basically shoot the commercial. in 4 hours. and it's done. The background's perfect. The imagery's perfect. Your script is. perfect.

And I did that 2 weeks ago for the first. time. I'd never seen that before. We did. it for a fraction of the cost of what it. would have cost to do it in the old way. in post-production. But then I'll tell you what freaked me. out. They reshot the commercial without me. there using Kevin agent. An AI of you. I wasn't even there. And just to show that they could produce. a new commercial with the same. background.

for $9,000. That would have cost $400,000 from. scratch. So there's going to be a lot of. job disruption then because as you said. that. You don't say. But on the other hand, I've now got content for that particular. business I was shooting that you know, I've got content for that particular. business I was going to shoot that. commercial for. And I said, "Guys. let's tweak it and shoot it again." He. said, "Yeah, we'll do it in 2 seconds. We'll send you the the 15 seconds back.". I said I I I don't like what I said.

there. Can I change what I said? He. says, "Yeah, well, do you want it in. Spanish? You want it in Japanese? You. want it in Arabic?". That's the power, the productivity that. we're going to get. We're going to Our. budgets for producing content. are going to drop dramatically over the. next. And software and everything else, right? Creating everything is going to get. Now full circle to your your thing about. the chips, that all came from Nvidia chips. That not That's not from Chinese chips. Whoever controls the chip and the. honeybees that The honeybees are Those.

guys are all Indians and Pakistanis. They're genius mathematicians. That's. the team over there running off that. platform. If we had let Anyways, I don't want to. I'm just freaked out that we got to. control that. We We need democracy to control that. Your children, what are you saying to. them though about their professional. ambitions in a world where creating. stuff like that and, you know, whether. it's Who do you want to do your your. taxes? An accountant or an AI? Who do. you want to do your legal documents? Who. do you want to do. your any sort of like white-collar job, your make your videos, edit your videos?

I I tell them, you know, everybody's got. a lot of anxiety. I I I tell them, "Listen, everybody chillax. It's a tool. You know, it's the same classic thing. where. radio was going to be displaced by. television. Radio's bigger than it ever. has been. It It just It doesn't matter. The one. thing I concern myself with with AI is. warfare. And I think the country that has the. best AI and data centers.

and the most advanced chip technology. will win the wars of the future, which. will be fought by drones and robots. I. know that sounds kind of crazy. That's. where it's happening now and that's. where it's going to go. So So when I. when I solicit the ear of a senator, I. try and explain to them my honeybee. analogy saying this is about defense. I don't want to live under. authoritarian, you know, I know we. debate the whole political environment. these days, but. I don't want to live around Chinese. honey. I just don't. And those are going to be.

the two superpowers. You both You're in. one vertical. Either you let the Chinese. make the honey. on AI or we make the honey and let the. Chinese buy some honey from us. I know where I want to live. I know what. I want to do, and I think I can convince. a lot of senators the same idea because. you got to understand the Wozniak Jobs. analogy that we that you brought out. earlier. That was the genius of Jobs. Make the honey, but know who the queen bee is. The. genius of Jobs brings me to a question.

I've wanted to ask someone like you for. a long, long time, which is do you think. Apple is dead? No. You don't? No, I'll. tell you why. I'll tell you why. You. know, it's so interesting. Uh people. don't understand the genius of Apple. because this is again came from Jobs. You know, he used to say to my team over. and over again, and I mentioned earlier, they don't know what they want until I. tell them. And I always just just as close as you. and I are right now, you're Steve. I say, Steve,

how the [ __ ] do you know that? How do you know that? You don't know. that. You don't know what you don't know. He said, show me where I'm wrong. Show. me one instance of us working together. I'm wrong. I said, it hasn't happened. yet, Steve. Doesn't mean it won't. Get back to work. Don't worry about it. I'll worry about. it. You make the software. I have the. chips. Make the software. Go make the. honey. I have the queen bee. Don't worry about.

it. And. that. is pretty interesting because. you got to prove it that he. was wrong. Let's take Let's accelerate. He's dead now. But the philosophy of. Apple, and I'll give you them what the. way you win at you look at it. I can go buy. a $330. laptop right here. with the same processing power of this. $1,800 Mac laptop.

Why would I been spend 1,800 when I. could buy this for 300? Why? Brand. I want to be part of this universe. This honey right over here. The AppleCare, the fact that the OS. works on all the platforms, and the. messages are shown on all platforms. simultaneously. All the OS, all the. honey. That platform. is the power of brand. It's I'm not leaving this universe. And.

Apple is. one of the world's largest. companies. And you may say, "Oh, an innovation is. going to make everybody leave that. platform." I don't think so. They let. other people sometimes bring in a new. market, and then they take it over. And. I saw Steve do that multiple times. He did it um. with the phone. I was around for that. That was crazy. I mean, he had the vision that we would someday. run our software on the phone. I said, "You're out of your mind. It's The. screen's too small." He said, "No.

You're going to go vertical. You're. going to rewrite all this crap. vertically.". I mean, I can't fault him. on anything, although I kept telling. him, "You're going to get it wrong one day. You're not going to be right all the. time." I can't find when he wasn't. right. That That's That's the. frustration, because I teach this, you know, to a hard bunch of really. smart kids at Harvard, of which by the. way a third are international students. And. they say, "Well, when did you catch. him?".

I said, "I didn't.". What was he doing? Was Did he have a practice or or. principles that allow him to see around. the corner? He spent a lot of time at night um. you know, even. studying fonts and looking at art, and. um. focusing on the signal. I think his wife talked about that a. lot. He I mean, she spent more time with. him than anybody else, although Woz. talks about a lot, because those guys. spent countless hours together.

And. but but. Jobs defined. he would take. instances from nature. into his head or from Japanese, you know, scripture or text or imagery. and redefine it into technology in a way. that no one else was doing. And that's. the idea of the honey and the bee and. the queen and all that stuff. It kind of. comes from his view of the world.

And. I don't know if you can understand this, but because it was so. it came from nature, it was easy for. people to assimilate it. It wasn't. foreign. When they looked at the imagery. and the design, he he tried to pull from. from pleasing images from nature. Like. the fonts on the first Mac. I remember when we were writing the code. for that thing, Steve, this is not what. people are used to seeing. on a computer screen. He said, "No, it.

isn't. That's why it's going to work." You If. you think about the very first scalable. fonts, I saw that first. And I said, "See, this is this is almost foreign.". He said, "Well, how's it make you feel?". I said, "It makes me feel pretty good. It just looks like it's on a piece of. paper." If you I don't think you weren't. even born when this stuff was happening. But it was. it he was so far ahead. And this is the same way Elon is. redefining whether it's, you know, SpaceX or whether it's. what he's doing in neurosurgery or Tesla.

or, you know, all of these initiatives, uh, you know, his satellite technologies, they are the same, those guys, except. you know, Elon's 100% signal. I said. that earlier. They are the same and they should be. they're treasures. They're national. treasures. It doesn't matter if you like. them. It doesn't matter what their. politics are. It's It's irrelevant. The. contributions they're making to society. and to America, frankly, into. competitive competitive nature of of of. countries. That's why I thought it was.

so important that Trump make up with. Elon. The. most powerful man on Earth should have a. a very. good relationship with the most the. richest man on Earth because he's the. largest industrialist on Earth. Maybe. there's like an inherent inability by. way of them being who you just said they. are. The most powerful. But they know, they're smart enough to. know. It's the same way I felt about. Jobs. I'm getting back on the plane this. quarter. I know he's going to beat me on. but it doesn't matter. It It's the. greater good is that we get this. software out there advancing.

you know math and reading scores. Was he happy? Steve. I don't know the answer to that. question. he was a happy person? I don't know. He. I've never I never saw him happy. He was. always barking at me. I never saw him. happy. I don't think I ever saw him. laugh. I don't. He may not have been, you know, that I. mean, that's probably something. his wife would know, but he looked like. a tortured guy to me. But um. you know, that may have been his curse. I You know, you some some you.

Do you love him? Yeah. I can see it in your face. 100%. I saw a lot of emotion in your face the. first time you spoke about him and I. thought that's surprising for someone. that barked at you. Well, he respected me. That's for sure. He wouldn't execute on my ideas. He expected me to execute on his, but he. was never wrong. Where did the emotion. stem from? Oh, you know, it brings me back into. that room with Heidi Roizen and all the. crazy crap. I mean, it was just nuts.

And you know, the. you know, I'd have to spend a lot of. time. The only the only meeting I really. remember um. the the one that's really sticks in my. mind. when we were in Cupertino and we were. just. I think I don't know we're going after. him for 18 million or something and. Heidi was there. Who's Heidi? Heidi Roizen, um she's a. famous um. venture capitalist, but she was also. kind of the. muse, the person that could actually.

deal with Jobs all day long. at Apple. and bring him back to earth when he was. out of his mind. I'll give you an. example how that would work. And I've seen her since, you know, it's. it's it's I don't even know if she. remembers this particular. Anyways, we leave. He's barking at me. He's he and he's got. one of my product managers in tears cuz. she wanted to do the market research and. he said, "No way. We're just going to do. what I say." And she just felt like her. job was useless. And and for him it was. I mean, he just. didn't give a [ __ ] what she thought. Although she ran the universe of Oregon.

Trail or something, some massive title, like a huge multi-million dollar title. on the Mac in every 110,000 schools in. America. And. he he was so pissed that, you know, that. in these old buildings. they have the little window where you. have a little knob and it only opens up. 4 inches so you can't jump out of it in. a hotel or something. So, we were we had a Hertz rental and. we're the whole team's going out. I'm. going to drive the car back to San. Francisco. I'm going to fly back to. Boston. And he he undos the window and he's got.

his head stuck in there and he's yelling. at me from from. I'm looking up at him and saying, you know, what the [ __ ] Like. what what more can we we what you. already kicked us out, you know? And. then on the way we had these old brick. the earliest cell phones, these brick. phones. Heidi calls me says, "Okay, he'll do it for 12 million.". I said, "Heidi, why do we have to go. through all that [ __ ] Like.

why do we even have to get abused?" She. said, "Why is the sky blue? You know? Just get back on the plane and go do. it." Like it was a huge hit. Like it's. just, you know, it's a huge hit. Like. it's just the guy was if you looked at. it like. he he he could he could write the hit. songs. what he did. He write the hit. songs. So you know what, even if you. hate the producer, you want the the guy. that can do the hit songs, right? If. you're an artist, you put up with a. crazy producer. Could he not have been. nice, do you think? Not in his DNA.

No. Do you think if he was a nice person, he. wouldn't. You know what he would say about that? That's noise. Who gives a [ __ ] Yeah, he doesn't give. a [ __ ]. No, I being nice is noise. That's for. him. I mean, we spent a lot of time talking. about him, but I think there's a lot of. lessons learned from him that I think. managers today, parents today, uh. certainly CEOs today, uh you know, your. your about this show is about CEOs, um. I wish every CEO had spent the time the. minimal time that I spent with Jobs had.

such an impact on me. I mean, it it it I I'm I owe a lot of my. success to him cuz I think I always. think, "What would Steve do?". And I make decisions like that. It's. amazing. The guy's still around. I bet. you if you talk to, you know, any of the. management at Apple, they they have that. ghost in those rooms, for sure. Including the current CEO, who I think. is doing a phenomenal job. He he spent so many hours with Jobs. He. knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Nobody spent more time in business than. that guy, for sure. I was just about to. go there. First, Steve Jobs was happy, but are you happy? I get happier the older I get and. because um I've I've I'm very. comfortable. I found a place. um. you know, uh. that I'm. And I I this may be just what. aging does. I mean, it's just, you know, in in when I was in my 30s, I had a lot. of trauma and turmoil and and just, you.

know, um. hard time to find it trying to figure. out who I was and I also suffered from. dyslexia, which I've come to think of as. a superpower, not not an affliction. But. it it was kind of like. it's hard to know what journey you're. going to be on until you find it. And. then I found it, and then I started on a. new journey. And and. you know. it's um. it's something where. you know you you you ask yourself.

every day goes by and you know with this. the noise and signal thing and how much. of this day was I happy doing the things. that I wanted to do. And I am very happy. if you if I measure it by. is there anything that I spend my time. doing that I don't want to do today? The. answer is no, because I don't have to. And so. I don't waste my time. I do you know. even coming here to spend two hours with. you. when I first you know heard about it, I. went online and said oh yeah this guy. this guy's great. I'd love to work with.

him. You know that kind of thing. you you allocate your time. This is this. is I'm happy to do this. I want to be. here. And I think you know we had a very. interesting couple hours together. But. that's. the definition of happiness. What. concerns me and my wife often says to me. we don't need any more money. Why are. why are you flying 300 hours a year on. an airplane? What are you doing? I said I'm happy. Like. you know I'm I'm happy doing this. I.

want to do this stuff. You know I. sometimes I do five cities in a day. It's freaking crazy. And that's the. wonderful thing about you know air. travel today you can do that. But. it's It's spooky. It's it's it's so interesting. I get so. many interesting opportunities. I can't. turn them down. They're just such. you know Are you driven or are you. dragged? You know you used the word. trauma there and I often ask myself that. question because I I came from a all. white area. I was the black kid with the. strange hair and the strange family. I. was insecure. And I think that resulted.

in this this force of will to try and. crack the insecurity or to prove. something to myself which then resulted. in success. there is no drag, there's only driven. I don't understand being dragged. Drag insinuates that. you don't care about performance, you. don't care whether you succeed or not, you're just being sucked into the void. of success. You might be able to say. that for a rock star that gets a hit. song, but um. most of them doesn't last. I mean, you. need massive amounts of of drive.

And I love the most the most exciting. thing I like to do is when someone tells. me. "You can't do that." Like watch. insurance. You will never. launch a watch insurance company. It you. will never do that. You will never get. around the compliance state by state. You will never launch in the Middle. East. You will never launch in England. [ __ ]. That's exactly what I did. I found the. right team. I found the right partners. I figured it out. I I was passionate. about it. And I think I'm going to kick.

ass. I think I'm I think in two or three. years from now, you won't be able to. catch up with me. That's right. I'm 32. years old. What what is the advice that. you wish you got at 32 years old, Kevin? What I have learned, and this is. something that you should really think. about for yourself. Your real value, your real brand, are your followers. This army of people. that have decided to invest their time. in you.

You know, you've cut across a a vast. swath. of people. So, you influence. very successful managers, CEOs, and a lot of young entrepreneurs want to. hear what you have to say because they. they're expecting you to deliver. valuable information. across. multiple sectors. And you also have your. own data, but men and women. And so, where do you take that? Because, you.

know, it's. Do you want to launch a clothing line? Do you want to sell burgers? Do you want. to do consulting? You know, it's it's. You have all those opportunities, but. what fits your brand? And so, I have. and you'll get to do this. You'll get to. do this. You'll be approached by a lot of people. that want to ride that network you've. built. And my advice to you is. cuz this has really worked for me.

Is this a product or service that I. personally would use? That I would actually use. Because. you'll get offered a lot of money. to talk about one brand or another. brand. They will, and you may be weak. and take it. But. the minute. anybody in your. network, in your. community thinks you're not authentic, you're [ __ ].

And you know that. Yeah. And so, you better be authentic, you better be. transparent, you better be honest even. when turmoil hits, whatever it's going. to be. I found that saved my ass so many times. by just saying, "Here's what I know. Here's what happened." And that actually. bonds them even closer to you. And And. that's. that's the difficulty you're going to. have is how much. do you want to take next? Cuz you're. going to have that opportunity. But if. you stay authentic and say, "I'm going. to do I'm going to support this brand.

cuz I use it.". Every single brand or commission I have. in supporting a business, I use myself. I'm a shareholder in it and I believe in. it, and I use the product or, you know, whatever. Like the wines I make myself. with my wife, we drink them in our. family and everybody knows that. So, you. if it's I wouldn't drink it if it's [ __ ]. wine. So, it's it's sort of like. that's my advice to you because. I meet a lot of people, but you're very.

rare. You What you've built, maybe by. happenstance that it occurred. Whatever. Alchemy occurred, you have it now. It's. yours to lose. Don't [ __ ] it up. Now, everything you said is so true and. um. obviously the things that I uh the. things that we talk about on the show in. terms of brands that I promote, pretty. much all of them I've invested my own. money into. Yeah. And this is like what. I talked about my Whoop. Yeah. Um. if you look at the investments I have. and the things I talk about, there's a.

really clear through line through them. So, there's a really clear through line. and it's actually reflective of just. where I am in my life. There's actually. a sponsor I used to have on the show. that I was very big on and I just. stopped um I stopped consuming the. product. They offered me 6 million. pounds, which is about what 8 million. dollars, to continue for another year. and a half. And I said like it just. wouldn't I'm about to basically start um. talking about and investing in. the antithesis of what you do. Yeah. So, I had to turn down that 7 million. dollars, which is a lot of money for. anybody. Yeah. But, it's because my life.

shifted and I shifted in a different. direction. People don't see those. things. They they don't see that the. this foreign government comes along and. offers you 4 million dollars to go and. talk about their country or to go do the. diversity in their country. They don't. see those decisions that you make, but I. think hopefully if you listen to me long. enough, you'll see a through line. between the things that are authentic to. me. Yeah, and I think that So, you've. already figured it out. And the other. thing that I would do and say anybody. your age and because I wish I'd done it. is start focusing on longevity in your. 30s. Start thinking about what you eat. and what you drink and how much sleep.

you do and how much exercise you have. You're you could live to 120 years old. I mean. You know, it's sort of if if you. understand If you're wearing a Whoop, you know what I'm talking about. It's. sort of I'm very, very uh focused on. what I do and exercise and what I eat. and all that. Um. but uh that makes you feel healthier and. and more and just better about the your. day as you go through it. But, the fact. that you figured that out at your age, because most people at your age would. have taken the 7 million pounds or. whatever it was, that would have been a. huge mistake. Because.

now the next product that you do. endorse, I will know with certainty that. you use it because you told me this. We have a closing traditional in this. podcast where the last guest leaves a. question for the next guest not knowing. who they're leaving it for. And the. question that was left for you, funnily. enough, I feel like I might have asked. it, is where do you believe happiness. really comes from? You know, I think the answer is very. simple. Consistently achieving your. goals.

Because happiness is not a destination, it's a journey. That's what it is. So, you have to set those goals, whether. it's noise to signal, going full circle, what we talked about, or long-term, whatever it is, it's consistently. achieving those goals, you will be happy. Consistently not achieving them, you'll. be unhappy. Because it is not. a destination. Happiness is not a. destination. Ever. It's a mistake that's.

so elusive. I mean, it's just not a destination, it's a. journey. That's it. This is one of the great things you've. taught me today. I'm reaffirmed for me. today is this idea of like signaling. noise and radical prioritization because. kind of dovetailing into what we were. just talking about, when you have a lot. of opportunity, it gets even harder, I think, to know. which one should be taking your 18 hours. a day. This is something I struggle. with. should feel it. You know, you're you're. you're kind of a weird dude, cuz you're. like a 70-year-old man in a 30-year-old. body.

You've got You've got the intellect of. of experience, which most people don't. have at your age. But, deals, there's a certain feeling that you if if. you should feel that it's a good deal. It should It should be in your gut. And. I've learned this. There's many deals. that sound great that. when I just do the gut check, I don't. participate in. They just don't give me. And that came from experience, but you. seem to have that in some. weird way to avoid that one we just.

talked about. That's. it it's it's it's intuitive feeling that. you generally get by having a lot of. winners and losers over time. Mhm. But you seem to have accelerated that. somehow. It's an intuitive nature of where you. want to get to and. what it's going to take to get there, and there's going to be sacrifice along. the way. It's never about the money. Never. It's. not about the money. It's. you know, it's do I want to achieve that goal?

You know, I'm having a it's it's just a. weird thing because I'm. I had a similar situation just a couple. of days ago. You know, when somebody approached me. and said, "Look, can you get behind this. and. and back it, and I'll pay you. a ton, like just a crazy amount of. money." And I thought, "Do I actually want to spend 1 hour. pursuing that?". And I went back to him and said, "Look, um. no. I I just it's just not interesting.

I I just I don't I can't see my I I. can't see myself getting involved in. that narrative." Which was it was a. complicated situation, but. And then he said, "Look, how about I give you 2 and 1/2% of the. company?". I said, "No.". I I just don't want to be associated I. you know, it's just it's same idea. It. would intuitively. It was noise. Yeah, and what that would. do is some opportunity you don't know. about down the future that you have you.

you you you pursued some goal that. somehow tainted your brand, and that. opportunity never comes to you. You. you're you're the you're the captain of. your brand. You you to. you have to define yourself right. through the journey. It's hard. It's really hard. You know, it's it's uh. it's really hard. And that And that if. if there's going to be a downfall for. you, you will have. chosen unwisely somewhere. But it better not be for money.

That's. there should never be an amount that you. would. take because. if your gut says no, it doesn't matter. what the money is. Not after what you've. achieved. I mean, you don't need to buy a. guarantee anymore. You got it. I'm assuming you've put some away. I mean, it's very simple. If you've got 5 million bucks in the. bank, you can do whatever you want now. I mean, it's. may sound I want more, but that is. enough under ca-.

Always have Always I have an account. that just sits there with 5 million. bucks in it in T-bills. I never touch it. That's my nest egg. Kevin, thank you. You got.