Kamala Harris: America Is At Breaking Point & I'm Deeply Concerned About The State Of The Country!

I'm going to just be honest. There were. times where Joe Biden greatly. disappointed me and frankly, you know, angered me. Like on the day of my debate. with Trump, the stakes were so high. And. the president calls and he said to me, it just was so unnecessary. >> And you took something from that. >> that his motivation was all about. himself. >> Do you think he wanted you to win the. election? Madame Vice President, there's nothing. you said I couldn't ask you. >> Cuz I have a lot to say. And so IT.

>> OKAY. SO, do you wish you hadn't ran? >> No. But I do regret that we did not have. more time. >> And then the debate that came before. with Biden and Trump, it was a car. crash. >> I mean, this was clearly an individual. that was very much struggling. >> He didn't want that debate. I could tell. something was a little off. >> How do you know? >> Well, I could start with this. >> And what about not going on Joe Rogan's. show? I definitely regret that we didn't. do it, but there was a lot of games. being played. >> And then on that night when the election. hasn't gone your way, what would I have. seen if I was a fly on the wall in the.

room? >> I was in a state of shock. Like I. haven't felt anything similar to the. emotion I felt that day other than the. grief I felt when my mother died and I. knew what was going to happen to our. country. So I had a hard time. reconciling that we can't still do. something about it because I grew up in. an environment where everyone was. fighting for justice and for equality. So, I do think about how different it. could have been, but sometimes the fight. takes a while. >> Does that mean that you're going to run. again? >> I.

I see messages all the time in the. comments section that some of you didn't. realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you. could do me a favor and double check if. you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing. that anybody that watches this show. frequently can do to help us here to. keep everything going in this show in. the trajectory it's on. So, please do. double check if you've subscribed and uh. thank you so much because in a strange. way you are you're part of our history. and you're on this journey with us and I.

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank. you. >> Madame Vice President, how are you doing? >> I am well. I am well. I mean all things. considered I am well my family is good. health so I start there but otherwise. you know it's a it's a it's a troubling. time. >> what are the what are the full range of. emotions when you said all things.

considered what are the full what's the. full picture there. >> everything from. grateful and feeling very blessed. to extremely ly. troubled, disappointed, concerned. of the state of our country and by. extension the world. Like a lot of. people who are watching the news and. reading the news, there's a state of.

anxiety what will happen next. I often. have found myself saying to people, it. may get worse before it gets better. And. so the knowledge of that perhaps the. anticipation of that I think keeps me. and many others on edge. >> Do you believe that? Do you believe it's. it could get worse before it gets. better? >> I think it's very possible. Every day I. I because actually during the book tour. I've I've said it to audiences and in. one city and then the next day something. happens.

There's a lot that's very unpredictable. about this administration. Although. there is almost all of it that I did. predict. Now, I know you you only had 107 days. >> to potentially intervene in the course. of history, but when you see these. things playing out that you're referring. to that incite those feelings you have. of frustration, >> um a little bit of anxiety, etc., >> do do you feel a sense of like. responsibility in a weird way because. because. >> yeah,

>> there was a percentage chance of sort of. intervening in these things. This is a. complex question to ask, but it's. >> Mhm. I do think about how different it. could have been. >> Mhm. >> I do think about it in the context of. the number of people who are being. impacted in such a horrible way. I think. of it in terms of the number of people. who are existing and living in utter. fear right now, afraid of being attacked. or afraid of being targeted with hate.

um much less misinformation. I Yeah, I. do. And I and I know that the the race. that I ran for president of the United. States, the outcome of that election is. what has happened. and it would have been different. It. would have been very different. I try. not to allow myself to think too much. this way. I will tell you that because I. for better and worse really. do like to be centered on the present.

So, so let's go. I want to understand. the the set of circumstances that. created someone like you because you're. an anomaly. There's a lot of firsts that. appear in your career, but if we if we. start at the beginning, what is the. context that shapes someone to become. such an anomaly in their professional. career? >> My parents and the community that raised. me. My mother arrived from India in the. United States at the age of 19 by. herself. My mother naturally at that young age.

became aligned with the civil rights. movement. >> in in um Berkeley and Oakland, California. Met my father who had been a. national scholar in Jamaica. They fell in love and here I am. My. sister and I were born and we were born. in an environment where everyone was. fighting for justice and for freedom and. for equality. every message we got was. you are important and you have a duty to.

figure out how you're going to. participate. I I noticed this as I was. reading through your story, how service. and helping others seems to be so. interwoven into your DNA. >> And even we spoke to Doug. >> Uhhuh. >> your husband and he was telling me a. story about your first date with him. >> Uhhuh. What did he tell you? Well, apparently you made a you made a remark. on that first date that you're you're. here to help people and to serve people. He told me many things. We we have a I.

have many pages of what Duck said. Very. fascinating. He's um he's very in love. with you, by the way. >> I'm very in love with my husband and. he's very funny. I hope you got a sense. of. >> He was hilarious guy. >> Yeah. Well, he he and I had such. different careers, both of us being. lawyers, right? He went immediately into. private practice. I never wanted to be. in private practice. It was never about. money for me. was always about people. and how. could I do the work that was about. protecting people and giving people.

dignity. >> Why protecting people? >> I I think there's a lot um that has to. do also maybe with birth order. >> I'm the eldest. >> And from the age of 2 years old, my. mother told me, "Take care of your. sister. Look out for your sister.". You've got all kinds of pictures. Canon, I've been through everything. >> Yeah. This is my sister Maya. >> That's you protecting her. >> And that's me protecting her. I grew up. also, you know, seeing my mother who was.

a 5-ft tall brown woman with an accent. would be treated. She taught me this, my. extended family taught me. But then I. also witnessed. the importance of. making sure that all people that their. dignity is respected and protected. and. I because I you know I I have lived a. life to see where that doesn't always. happen. >> So you decide to focus on law in public. practice. Um you have a phenomenal.

career from that point onwards. It's. really remarkable what you're able to. accomplish and this is I guess where a. lot of the firsts come in because from. the age of 24 to 51 you rise from deputy. district attorney to California's. attorney general becoming the first. woman and first black person to hold. both roles. Um, and you led major. reforms in that time, including securing. $25 billion in homeowner relief after. the 2008 crisis, launching the back on. track LA rehabilitation program, and. making California the state the first. state to mandate body cameras for.

justice justice agents and much more. An incredible career up until that. point. That could have been it. You. could have bowed out at that point and. celebrated. >> There's so much more to be done. There's. so much more to be done. Um, I think one. of my strengths and weaknesses is um, I. like to solve problems, but that means. that I tend to. once a problem has been addressed, move.

on to the next one without maybe taking. the time to pat myself on the back. >> because now it's time to move on to the. next issue. >> During your career, you you saw some. horrific things. That's the nature of. your job. You deal with the dark darkest. parts of reality. >> Parts of human behavior and nature I've. seen. Yeah, you're right. >> Give me give me some context there. What. does that mean in reality? >> Well, for a while I specialized in child. sexual assault, which is about um.

the most horrendous of. abuse and crime, which is an adult. abusing a child. And. those cases were so difficult um for so. many reasons. I mean, there's a couple. that I remember in particular where I. just. where the children were so young that. they were um they wouldn't be able to. testify.

One was an elementary school little. girl. And I mean, I I remember going. into the bathroom of the courthouse and. crying. because I knew a jury. would not. have enough to convict. and um. you know, broke my heart. I mean, and I.

I have thought about that little girl, you know, not years and years and years. later. But those cases, you know, it's. the worst of human behavior, which is we. as a society should be in the business. of protecting children and protecting. their vulnerability so that they can. thrive. Um, but I've, you know, I've. prosecuted homicide cases. I've, um, you. know, I've prosecuted fraud cases. How. does how does one deal with all of this. stress and responsibility? And I'm not.

just referring to your time as attorney. general, but even thereafter with. >> running for president and the ups and. downs of that, the public feedback, the. the pressure, the responsibility of. potentially running the, you know, the. the free world basically and becoming. the most powerful person on earth and. the ups, the downs, the attacks, the. >> the the child abuses. How does one. learn? Is there a framework you've. built? Is there are there ideas or. principles that you've developed to deal.

with such pressure? >> Well, this may sound trit, but I work. out every day. >> Yeah. >> I work out every morning, no matter how. little sleep I've had. Um, I just find. it to be just mind, body, and soul. >> Have you changed over time? >> Oh, for sure I've changed over time. The. pressure has changed in magnitude. >> Um but the pressure that I feel in terms.

of my sense of personal responsibility. >> has not changed. I I put a lot of. I I I hold myself to a very high. standard and um I tend to be a. perfectionist even though I am far from. perfect you know I mean even during the. 107 days every night I would stay awake. thinking what more could I have done. with that one day. >> 24year-old Kamala Harris who starts as.

that sort of uh becomes eventually. becomes the deputy district attorney. If. I sat her there. >> Uhhuh. >> and you're sat there now as um madame. vice president, what would be the. notable differences in personality, mentality, in perspective? >> Oh, that's interesting. Well, I mean, I I don't know if that's. changed, but she was fearless. >> She was fearless.

>> She was fearless. She didn't hear no, it. can't be done. and whether it was the first case that I. had and I was a young prosecutor and I. was going through the files and it was a. Friday evening and I realized that the. person who had been arrested had young. children at home, a woman and all the. courts were shutting down and I went to. the courtroom and I asked the judge,

"Please take the bench again. She has. young children. She can't stay in over. the weekend. And the clerk was like, "Nope, he's gone. for the day. He's leaving for the day.". And I would not leave. And they call the. case, you know, but not hearing no. I. just I um that has been probably a. throughine of my my life. I don't rest. easy with the idea that something is not. possible.

um at least I don't rest easy with it. without trying. >> to show that it is possible and that's. probably not changed. I also have. started to sit better with the idea that. but you can't change everyone. >> Mhm. >> How does that change your approach. knowing that you can't change everybody? I'm better able to assess. a situation. to figure out what is the potential.

there. >> Okay. Yeah. >> And be perhaps a bit more realistic. without being I think jaded about it. >> Yeah. >> And I guess that's wisdom and. experiences. >> Yeah. It comes with it comes with I. think a bit of experience. >> which allows you to be more efficient. and effective. >> And that's right. Yeah. >> That's exactly right. That's exactly. right because that is how I reconcile it. which is. >> the effort is better placed. >> somewhere else. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And at what point in this in this.

journey did you realize that you wanted. to be president of the United States? Like was was there a a lunch or a dinner. you had with Doug? When does that. decision get made in your career? >> It was when I was in the Senate. >> Yeah. I ran into a friend who came up, Doug and I were at a basically a a. family table in a local restaurant. eating and he said to me, "You should. run for president." And it had not. occurred to me until then. It had not.

occurred to me to run for president. I. There are people who are born thinking. they're going to be president. There are. people who look who look in the mirror. every day and see a president. I was not. one of those people. But then the. thought. it kind of germinated and then of course. being vice president and doing the work. of vice president of the United States I. met with over 150 world leaders, presidents, prime ministers, chancellors. and kings. I've negotiated very. important.

deals and and and issues on behalf of. the American people. Um I've spent. countless hours not only in the Oval. Office but the situation room and. traveling around the world. And so in. those 107 days, I was fully aware of not. only the importance of the job, but. fully aware that I had the experience. and knowledge to be able to do it. effectively. >> I mean, this is one of the things I was. actually talking to a friend of mine. downstairs, Lucy Mangini, who sat out. there, and we were talking about this.

idea of like, does imposter syndrome. ever leave you? And I imposter syndrome. is a bit of a loaded term, >> but you kind of assume that people in. higher places than you are have some. like genetic or mental or some gift. They have all the answers. But higher. you climb with your own continued. naivity, you start to suspect that no. one really. >> is genetically gifted or like has some. superpower that you don't have. >> Right. And I'm wondering if you've. experienced that in your career where. the higher you've climbed, you've. realized that actually everybody up here. is like I'm like that like or I'm at.

least on their level. Have you had that. experience in your career? >> Yes, I have. And but I've also had the. imposttor syndrome experience and that. was when I was first elected DA. >> and I challenged then in the incumbent. Um I started out at six points in the. polls which is six out of 100. >> Uh you know people recently asked me how. about polls polls. Well, you know, if I. listened to polls, I would have never. run for my first office and therefore we. wouldn't be having this interview. probably. And I won. And it was, you.

know, it was not expected that I would, at least when I jumped in the race. And. there I was sitting in the office and I. thought, "Oh my god, I'm I'm now the. elected DA of a major city in the United. States." In hindsight, it was maybe it's. we call it imposttor syndrome. to your. point maybe it is a very loaded term. because I think there is nothing wrong. with having um and I think that there's. a lot that is good with having a certain. level of humility. >> and in particular when the people have.

vested you with great power. >> right to understand it's not about you. right I think that that is that is part. and parcel of what we call imposttor. syndrome or who has it I think often it. is because they understand how serious. The job is on behalf of others. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I applaud a bit of humility, honest. humility, not feain humility. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. Cuz there are plenty of people. that are, you know, self-deprecating for.

the sake of the shtick of it all. >> Yeah. >> But yes, to your point, the higher you. go, >> it does. It does because the more you're. exposed to to being the more you're in. the rooms with the people who are who. otherwise feel untouchable, >> the more you understand that they are. not untouchable. >> It's a polite way of putting it, >> the more you understand everyone's got a. little dust on them. >> Yeah. >> And they're not not everyone's shiny.

>> But it's liberating to know that that. that's the case because you know there's. we all put a ceiling above us. and we. think that's my level and everyone above. that has some gift that I will never be. able to attain. So I won't even strive. to break that ceiling because you know I. don't deserve to be up there. >> But but and also don't discount the. signals that that many people are sent. that you don't belong there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and you know, I I especially.

when I'm mentoring people will often say. to them, don't ever limit yourself. based on other people's limited ability. to see who you are. >> Mhm. >> That's their limitations to see who you. are in your capacity. Don't impose those. limitations on yourself. >> Well, I mean, this that photo I showed. you before we started recording that. LeBron posted is a pretty iconic. example. I'll put it on the screen, but.

it just goes to show I think all the. vice presidents that came before you, and frankly, they all look the same. >> So, one might fall into the trap of thinking. that if I don't look like this, then I. can't do this job. You know, that's what. I think the human mind logically might. arrive at that conclusion. It looks for. pattern recognition. It might think if. I'm not one of these here, one of these. men here with this suit on and this kind. of hair and this age, then that's not a. position I can thrive in.

>> I'll. see you and add one. >> Okay. >> And everyone else thinks that this is. the image of who can do the job. >> Yeah. So the added challenge is not only the. limitations one puts on themselves. but the limitations one might be met. with around other people's perceptions. about who can do what. >> And have you had that through your. career? >> Yes. Is there any particular examples.

that always sit at the front of your. mind where you really really felt that. the room you were in, people were. discounting you purely based on. appearance or gender or race or anything. like that? >> I mean, there are times in my career. when I walked in the room and someone. said, you know, something along if they. didn't know me. >> Mhm. >> If they didn't know what they were. walking into, you know, they were. waiting for my boss. And how did you deal with that? How do.

you stop that suppressing you? Because. it's very easy to feel that and go and. to shrink. >> You will often be, you may often be the. only one who walks into a boardroom, a. courtroom, a meeting room, who looks like yourself or has had your. life experiences. But when you walk in that room, walk in. that room, chin up, shoulders back, knowing there are so many people who are. not in that room, >> who are so proud of you walking in that.

room and expect that you will use the. voice that you carry. >> Mhm. you know, and and there are there. are tools that one has to employ when. you otherwise are aware that you might. be presenting the unfamiliar. >> But but but what I also would caution is. is don't walk in that room with the. assumption that your value will not be.

recognized. Right? And so again, this. gets back to my point about we all have. to moderate what limitations are we. putting on ourselves. with what limitations are being sent our. way. >> And when you say tools, >> well, just like that, don't don't when. you walk into that room, see all the. people. I think sometimes of Mrs. Francis Wilson, who was my first grade. teacher who attended my law school. graduation.

I think of my mother who would say to me. calmly don't you ever let anyone tell. you who you are you tell them who you. are right and you think of these people. when you walk into these important rooms. to remind you. >> I I it's a tool I have used over a. period of time and um and it has served. me well yes there's Mrs. Wilson. That's. at my law school graduation. And that's. my mother. That's exactly right. How. about that? Yeah. Where'd you get all. these pictures?

>> Well, stopping you, you know. >> Yeah. That's Mrs. Wilson. >> And so, why is thinking of Mrs. Wilson. helping you when you walk into those. rooms? Because. there is, I think, a key to success. that each of us who has achieved success. probably shares, which is there has been. someone at least, and it could be a. parent, it could be a teacher, it could. be a neighbor, it could be a pastor, someone who convinced you you were.

special. You may not have been particularly. special, but they told you you were and. you believed them. I know that's true for me. I may not. have been particularly special, but I. had a few people who told me I was and I. believed them. >> Mhm. >> And and but with that came. therefore don't do this thing. >> Mhm. >> Cuz you're you know you shouldn't be. doing that thing but go in that room. I. think uh you know when we talk about.

mentorship, when we think about the. signals that we as a society send to. children and I mean all of our children, our own children, the children of a. community which we should think of as. our children. to send them signals that tell them they. are special and then back that up with. giving them the resources. would make us a much stronger society. as you said that I was reflecting on.

little passing comments people in my. life made at certain points that at the. time I was suspicious about like you. know them telling you that you're going. to be special or do something great one. day that I might have not fully believed. myself but I believe they believed it. >> right. >> and that was enough. >> but that's that's what I'm saying they. told me and I believed them I didn't. think of it and maybe that's why I don't. look in the mirror and see all these. things. but yes. >> have you got any tools around how you've. leared to hold yourself.

>> Thinking back to 24y old comma versus. this Kamla, is there a certain way you. hold yourself in those rooms that also. garners that respect? I noticed when you. speak, you you don't rush and I think. people that are younger in their career, they tend to. >> Yeah. Right. >> Because they're they're kind of almost. trying to excuse the amount of time. they're taking and they kind of are a. bit more. >> I just wondering if there's anything. you've any tools in that regard that. have helped. It's important to have some sense of.

conceptually. >> what you mean to say and you not that. you have to rehearse what you're going. to speak before you speak it but do have. a sense of what you intend to. communicate. >> Mhm. And I think it's also important to. especially with complex issues in the. context of a discussion. deconstruct. in your mind what the issue is.

>> so you can speak logically. >> Mhm. >> And what about appearance generally? Do. you think much about that? So do you. think much about because you're I mean. you look very your outfit's stunning. today. >> You're very. >> Does it matter? >> Sadly it does. >> It does. I mean depending on context. Um. sadly it does. I I we are still I think. in a world where the way you appear when. you walk in the room. impacts first impressions.

>> Mhm. um including just for example again even. in mentoring people people will look at. their watch or their phone to see if. you've walked in the room on time. >> and will judge something about your. character. >> that the piece of how you look that is. going to suggest the pride that one has. in themselves. >> as a matter of self-respect I mean I've. always this is you know I grew up in the. black church,

you dress up. >> and it's a it's a reflection of your. dignity. and the respect you have for the place. that you may be. >> And in January 2019, you launched your. presidential campaign for the first. time, which was up until you you dropped. out later that year in December. >> Correct. >> Why did you drop out of that uh. presidential race? What's the what's the. full context behind the scenes? There. was a lot there. Um,

mostly we ran out of money. >> Yeah. >> But I learned a lot of lessons obviously. about running. Um, but that was that was. the main reason. >> And at some point you get a call from. Mr. President. >> Mhm. I got a call from then nominee, Democratic nominee Joe Biden. He um we. facetimed it was during the height of. COVID. >> Yeah. >> And he asked me to be his running mate. and it was a a great honor and I was.

honored to do it. >> Did you have any inclination before that. moment that he was going to ask you? >> Had there been like a side conversation? >> So, no. I had an interview. I had an. interview and it was like something out. of a spy movie where I had my assistant. drove me to one location. This was in. DC. And then it was a mall. And then I. got out of that car to get in another. car that was because the press were. watching everything to see who there was.

a short list that was out who was going. to be. So we had to do this whole. clandestine thing. And then I got into. another car being driven by one of his. assistants and then we went to this, you. know, this very circuitous route to a. house and then through the back door. The windows were closed, the shades were. closed and I had my interview. went back. to because Doug and I were in our. apartment in DC because I was senator at. the time and again height of COVID then. the vans the press vans were parked out.

front and we would just want to go for a. walk. Remember during co everyone just. wanted to get some fresh air they must. have thought we couldn't see them. They. were like in unmarked vans. So from time. to time I just walked up to him and say. we're going to get some coffee. Can I. bring you anything back? We'll be right. back. I the day I actually got the call. from from Joe Biden asking me to run. with him was the same day earlier where. one of my girlfriends has a house in.

Virginia and it was the end of summer. and she had all these beautiful end of. summer tomatoes. >> I like to cook. She brought me this big. box of tomatoes and I was going to make. a bunch of marinara. >> and freeze it. Then I get the call from. him. I said yes, of course. And I don't. know, it felt like within seconds. a parade of people walk into our. apartment with a parade of binders sit. down. Everyone's in masks to tell us, "Okay, this is what the campaign is. going to be." And because I hate to.

waste food, every one of them walked out. with me handing them to as they left. >> I'm so intrigued to know. I've done many. interviews in my life. I've been in a. couple of interviews myself. How does. someone get interviewed to be the vice. president? like what are the questions. one is asked? >> Well, having been in the position of. both being the interviewer and the. interviewee, >> yeah, >> um it really as much as anything comes. down to chemistry. >> Oh, okay.

>> Because by the time that that interview. is happening, it's usually narrowed down. to about three people. So, all the vetting has been done. I. mean, my the vetting I had such a. truncated experience when I was running. for president of of just a couple of. weeks, but I think Joe Biden took like. nine weeks to make a decision. And so. there's vetting when I was being vetted. for vice president. I had a I don't know. 9-hour interview with a lawyer going. through everything, everything. My.

taxes, my professional record, everything that was everything, everything. I mean, talk about a. colonoscopy. >> It was just virtually. That's kind of. what it was. And so when all of that has. been done and it's kind of green light, green light through that, then it's. about sitting down and just deciding um. because it it is going to be a. partnership, right? And it has to be it.

has to be where you feel that you can. trust someone. You you could work with. them. You are you're doing it for the. same reasons. >> Was it what you thought it was going to. be. >> being vice president? >> Yeah. >> I didn't know exactly what it would be. because there's nothing that can compare. to it. I mean, I was the 49th vice. president of the United States. There. have only been 48 before me. Right. >> Mhm. And I don't think anything can. truly prepare you for what it is because. it is um a very unique position where.

you are. again you are number two in command. >> Wow. you. So the the seriousness of the. responsibility is is that um I I give. all credit to now the late President. Jimmy Carter who decided when he was. president having come off of you Kennedy. and Nixon and everything. He decided. that the vice president should be given.

greater responsibilities than had been. the case because God forbid something. happens to the president. There should. be a smooth succession. And so Walter. Montdale was his vice president and was. the first to have an office in the West. Wing. >> Mhm. >> The responsibilities were again to meet. with world leaders. The responsibilities. were to travel the country um on behalf. of our administration and our policies. Um it's it's an incredible. responsibility and um you know meeting.

with the variety of people who for the. most part just want us to achieve good. things. When I was reading your book 107. days, one of the one of the really. surprising things was but also makes. sense when I understand human nature was. that you talk about how some of the. president's staff were basically. suppressing you a little bit, suppressing your accomplishments because. you're a threat to them and you I think. you were told pretty early on or you had.

heard pretty early on from a chief of. staff that. >> the the vice president is kind of seen. as a threat to the president. So, the. lore has it that. the outgoing chief of staff to the. president will tell the incoming chief. of staff to the incoming president. regardless of political party. Rule. number one, watch the vice president. Lore has it that that's the case. And um. and then I had of course run against Joe.

Biden. I was very and acutely aware that. I would have to. over and over again prove my loyalty. that it wouldn't be assumed. >> You say in the book the president staff. was adding fuel to negative narratives. that sprung up about me. >> Yeah. >> The president's inner circle seemed fine. with it. Indeed, it seemed as if they. decided I should be knocked down a. little bit more. >> Yeah. I was shocked when I read that but. at the same time understood it. >> because it's human nature but also.

shocked. because one wouldn't expect. >> it was and it was counterproductive. was absolutely counterproductive. Was. there a particular moment where you. realized that this was happening. for the first time? >> To be candid with you, I. had a sense of it for quite some time, but it was after the election that I. really started to hear the stories about. it. I mean, I I had a sense of it. It. was clear to me in terms of just the. challenges with getting them to uplift,

getting them to defend, especially when. there were inaccurate, unfair attacks. And then I started to hear more stories. after. >> And what you mean by that is when there. were unfair media attacks on you that. could quite easily have been rebuttled. or. >> debunked, there was no desire to debunk. them. >> There was there the staff and the. resources under the president as. compared to the vice president are. enormous. Mhm.

>> And to the extent that the vice. president is being attacked, resources. were available but not used to. defend the vice president in the way. that they could have that would have. inured to the benefit of everyone. involved. >> Cuz that's what I think. There was an. argument to say it was in their. interests because if the if if you and. Joe Biden are strong, you're more like. Joe Biden's more likely to then win the. next election. Exactly. That's my point.

We rose and fell together. >> Yeah. And did did he did Joe Biden know that. that was happening? >> I don't know if he did, >> but it's the staff underneath him that. are in charge of that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, they would they So, you're. saying that that you think they they. wanted you to be weaker in public. perception because that kind of keeps. you in your place? >> I. think that that was part of it. I do. I. think that they decided that, you know, there are far too many people in this.

world and in professional life. who approach things with a zero- sum. game. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> If I have more, you have less. And it is incredibly shortsighted. And I. think it's actually quite provincial. thinking when you're talking about the. stakes that were at play. >> in our administration and of course in. the election. >> and they you were talking about in the. book as well in on page 47 of 107 days.

that they also didn't. promote your accomplishments because. when I read through all the research of. the things that you had accomplished I. wasn't aware. >> I know. >> there doesn't seem to be a megaphone. shouting about the things you. accomplished. So, um it. >> was very frustrating. I can't even tell. you. Frustrating and painful. >> really. >> And well, and also not just for me, but. for the people who knew my career and. knew what was not being said and what. was being said.

>> What wasn't being said, >> the accomplishments, the um the the the. credibility of um of my leadership. They thought that, and you say this on. page 51, if you were shining, then Joe. Biden was dimmed. So, it was very much. in their interests to. make sure you were dimmed. One one could argue then so that Joe. Biden was shining. >> Yeah. And that was um.

again, it was very shortsighted. >> Are you friends with Joe Biden? >> Yes. >> Is the relationship good? >> It's a good relationship. I just talked. to him. two days ago he called me for my. birthday. >> Is it Is it complicated? >> Yes, it's very complicated. >> It is. And as I write in the book, I um. it is very complicated. I have a great. deal of affection for him. Um, and.

there were times that I've been quite. candid about where he. greatly disappointed me. and frankly, you know, angered me. >> Yeah. >> Can you give me context on it where he. disappointed and angered you? >> So, I write um and I, you know, I I I. thought about this. Was I going to write. about it or not? And I I decided in.

writing this book, I was going to just. be honest and these are the facts and. the reader can take what they want from. it. on the day of the debate, my debate. with Trump. And you know, so going into a. presidential debate is an incredibly. intense and intensive project, including. what has historically happened that we. even called debate camp. >> Can you imagine? And it's no camp at. all. It's going into.

um where you basically are sequestered. for a period of time immediately before. the debate. Where did you get all of these? This is. Phipe who played Donald Trump. >> in your debate camp. >> In my debate camp and he never broke. character ever. >> So this is a fake Trump that was brought. in. >> This is the fake Trump. He would do the. makeup, the orange makeup, the long red. tie. He was just awful. Awful. awful in the best way in trying.

to get me prepared and um and there were. a lot of people like Phipe there were a. lot of people who are you know I I'm. very fortunate I have people who have. been with me for years and years and. years through these various offices and. you know even if they go on to different. positions they always come back when. needed and so debate camp was this. intense basically a preparation process. where you.

you know your team will basically try to. they'll break you and then build you. back up. So the day of the debate was. after that intense period of preparation. and then that morning I had a meeting. with my team. I thought it was going to. be more prep but they actually were. wonderful and just basically said to me. you're ready. So, okay then being a woman running for. president and many women in various high. level positions get their hair and.

makeup done. Back to your point about. presentation and it can take hours. >> Hair and makeup got done. I'm in the. hotel room with Doug, with my husband, and the president calls and I they I was. told that he wanted to call me so that. I'd be ready. And I was so sure it was. to buck me up and go go get him. And he did say that for the first beat.

And then he went on to talk about a. group of people in Pennsylvania who were. saying bad things about me. because they heard I was saying bad. things about him. And when I hung up the. phone, I was just. I was it was unbelievable. And I was. Yes, I was angry and deeply. disappointed. It just it was so unnecessary. There. only two people in the world other than.

me that has debated this guy, Hillary. Clinton and him. And you know what it's. like? It's going into a debate with the. stakes being that high and and Trump. hadn't agreed to another debate. The stakes were so high. So that's an example of what I mean. >> You took something from that. You took a. an underlying message about one's. intentions from that. cuz I would if. someone called me in the leadup to de.

debate prep and said something like that. to me, I would assume that they don't. want the best for me. >> My takeaway is his motivation was all. about himself. >> That's what I would assume from that. I. would assume that. >> Yeah. Right. Obviously, right? >> Yeah. >> It wasn't about my performance at the. debate. >> Do you think he wanted you to win the. election? I do because.

I was the only one who would be able to. preserve his legacy. >> But even that's about him. >> Well, if I had to assume one of the. reasons why he'd want me to win. if Yeah. And of course, you know that this all. wouldn't be happening. I don't think. anybody. who cares about the future of the. country um the democracy or even just. protecting the Constitution of the.

United States would have wanted this. Yeah. just a bit of a reminder to me that a. lot of people in the highest places in. in power are maybe a little bit. self-focused. >> Yeah, that's that is the case. >> I think it um I think that is the case. I've seen it. >> I've seen it. >> Maybe dare I say that it that's how they.

get there. I think that may be a big part of it if. they don't have something else that is. the pull or the push. >> Yeah. Cuz I look at your life and your. career and I see a dedication to the. same thing which is like serving people. and it's at the expense of financial. opportunities and other opportunities. you could have pursued and it seems to. be really really authentic to me that. your your agenda was to serve people. Um. I can't say that about everybody else. that I've studied or interviewed in the.

political environment. And the other. thing the other thing that so I watch. all these debates. I've been I'm such a. big fan of American politics. So I was I. was up at 12 years old watching Obama. get inaugurated or whatever it was. I. can't it was roughly I was a young kid. at the time. >> I I stay up and watch all the debates. I. always have since I was a kid. I watched. that debate. But the debate that came. before with Biden and Trump. >> It was so apparently clear. >> Yeah. >> That this was not okay. >> And it felt like it felt like the whole. of the Democratic side of politics was. pretending everything was okay. Mhm.

>> That's kind of my observation from the. UK. I was like, why are they all. pretending everything's fine? But this. was clearly an individual that was very. much struggling with articulation, with. ideas, >> and in the face of someone like Trump. who. >> to his credit. is able to pounce on that to be very. clear. and and he and he interestingly. enough because of course I watched that. debate very closely for many many. reasons including um I had four. interviews. right after his debate.

>> okay. >> to speak on behalf of the president. during the debate and what was. interesting in that debate was also to. watch how it's a very rare circumstance. that you see Donald Trump actually. moderate. it was fascinating. You must have known. You must have you. sat you sat there. You were in LA at the. time, right? >> I was in LA at the Fairmont Hotel. >> watching.

>> watching. >> and. >> taking vigorous notes. I had ordered, you know, like they had a little crude. tape plate and I was like, "No, this is. a pizza night. Ordered pizza for. everyone." I had my a number of people. with me, but I had a tight group of. people with me in the room. He called me from debate camp. >> Mhm. >> The president did, Biden did. And I. could tell something was a little off. And. I was concerned about I I just he I.

don't think he wanted to debate is my. point. He didn't want that debate. And. you know, it's like any competition you. go in, whether it's you're bidding for. something, you're if it's sports, you. got to want it. >> Yeah. >> Right. If you don't want to be in the. competition, >> it will absolutely have an impact on. your performance. And I don't think he. I'm pretty sure he did not want to. debate. >> How do you know? What were the signs?

>> Well, we had conversations about it. I. think he got talked into it. And in any. event, so I'm watching the debate with. my tight team. I wanted it to be a small. team so I could just be candid as it's. happening because I know I have four. interviews right after. And you know, in. every debate, I don't care who you are, there will be statistic wrong or you. know, you name this country, but it was. that country. That always happens. There. is no such thing as a perfect debate. So.

there will be something to clean up. >> Yeah. >> And I expected that. And then, you know, we saw what we all. saw. >> It was a car crash. It was a historic. car crash. I actually can't think of a. >> I'm a little bit of a historian of these. debates because I I think they're. fascinating sort of experiments and. demonstrations of human psychology and. how these zingers emerge and the binders. full of women thing and you know the. Obama's whole thing about the um. >> the Romney and Obama in that debate. where they talked about the the the.

military was no longer horses and. bayonets. I just think it's so. interesting because it's funny how a a. sentence or a phrase can sway the. general public in such a profound way. >> and stick. >> and stick and then as a marketer I spent. 10 years in marketing I think about this. a lot how like that that horses and. bayonets the fact that I can remember. that but I can't really remember. anything else. >> right that's interesting. >> you know the power of the words so that. in my view. >> and the delivery right so the words. combined with the delivery and the. timing. >> yeah and this is what you learn.

>> that has to that all has to coincide. >> so what was real strategy going into. that debate with Trump because you had. those same moments where the cats and. the dogs and all those all that. unbelievable stuff and and also you it. at home I was thinking oh she's she's. trying to trigger him and it's working. >> Yeah, because he's so predictable that. way. >> What were those things for you? Well, the first thing is that we had empty. pads on our um podium and in in the. debate camp and then therefore when I.

walked on stage after I shook his hand. went back to my podium, I wrote a smiley. face. and cuz I just decided I was going to. have fun. because one of the things about these. kinds of debates in particular is the. person who's having fun wins. That's so true. We watched it back the. other day and you're smiling. >> and you you look like you're enjoying it. and he looks frustrated. >> Yeah. >> So, that was intentional was to if you. look like you're having fun,

>> well, have fun, but though not just look. cuz I think it's very difficult to look. like you're having fun if you're not, right? >> Um, >> so you've got to find you've you have to. find you have to this is a true for. life. You got to see the humor in it. Otherwise, it's just going to undo you. Especially if you're dealing with heavy. stuff, you've got to see the humor in. it. And you know, like when he pulled. out the cats and dogs thing, I couldn't even believe it. I couldn't. because here's what happened. So.

I didn't know that he that this was. being said, right? >> Let's give context for anyone that. doesn't know. >> Okay. Yes. Right. you well. >> well so from what I understand it's. faint in my memory but um there was this. like crazy rumor that I think it was im. illegal immigrants were eating cats and. dogs. >> that Haitian immigrants regardless of. their legal status. >> in Ohio were eating their pets. >> cats and dogs. >> so I hadn't even heard about it cuz I'm.

in debate camp right. and then two members of my team see him. get off. his his Trump plane with the main. purveyor of this nonsense. and then they realize if she's on the. plane with him it is very possible last. thing he heard was this thing. So they. last minute tell me by the way um a lot.

of them call me boss because it's like. this is what you do in law enforcement. and it just stuck crazy. Hey boss, we. got to tell you something. We didn't. mention it to you. There's this whole. thing that they're saying on that side. about Haitian immigrants eating cats and. dogs. And I was like, are you kidding. me? That's ridiculous. No, but it's what. they're saying. So just it may come up. in the debate. Sure enough, it did. But. see, here's the thing that I would say. to you, Stephen, that. again, one of the reasons I wrote the. book is also there are lessons to be.

learned from those 107 days to be. applied today. I believe that part of what is the. method is say the outrageous thing, then everyone is going to focus on that. outrageous thing. And meanwhile this is happening, right? And so meanwhile. >> misdirection. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> And misdirection includes, by the way,

talking about immigrants eating cats and. dogs and not talking about what's your. plan for working Americans to bring down. the prices. So then the press covers that whole. thing and not oh where was his plan for. bringing down prices. >> Here's what I've come to learn um in the. last sort of 10 years working in in. marketing is I have this um particular. chapter in my last book where I say. useless absurdity defines will define.

you more as a brand than useful. practicality. And what I mean by this, >> right, that's beautifully said, >> is when I, this is the analogy I give. I. went to this gym in Canary Warf and I. walk in and it's got this 100 foot. climbing wall. It's massive gym, incredible. I come home, I tell my. girlfriend, I go, "Babe, there's this. incredible gym." And then the next. sentence out of my mouth is the most. absurd thing because I know that will be. the most impactful. So I say, "They've. even got a 100 foot climbing wall." Cuz. if I say that, it implicitly tells them, you know, tells my girlfriend, "This gym. is big." And and even in my last. company, the thing that the press.

focused on in my office wasn't our work, our case studies, the clients we had. It. was that we had this massive blue slide. that went into a ballpool. So whenever. the press came, they said, "Can you go. stand by the blue slide?" It was all. about this blue slide. The most absurd. thing gar all the attention. And I. actually think to. Trump's strategy is he leads with he's a. master labeler. Sleepy Joe. You know, you can't. >> is very gifted. Don't discount the guy in terms of that.

>> How do you beat someone playing that. game? >> You have to be relentless on focusing on. what's actually happening. >> Does that work? >> And it means it means also. deconstructing. So that I mean one of. the things for example that I've been. talking about recently is there's a word. that applies so well to him in this era. which is a phrase gaslighting. Right? So there's a whole lot of. gaslighting happening which is basically. misrepresenting, lying, scapegoating, distracting, right, from what's really. occurring, including like this whole.

thing where he's coming down so hard and. with these mass deportations which is. picking up a lot of American citizens by. the way in the process, hardworking. people in the process. And what he would. have people believe is that your. predicament. is because this is what he actually is. trying to sell. Your predicament is. because of relatively powerless people. So you don't focus on the powerful.

people. He's basically saying to the American. people, you have less because of people. who have even less than you. Here's the. counterpoint. It works. >> Yes, evidently. But there is, you know, but at some. point the veneer and the the the. deflection. has to wear off. I don't know when. exactly that is going to happen. And I. think that, you know, listen, um, the.

tariffs taking hold and when we get. around to the holiday season and people. realize how many toys are made in China, what strengthens that approach is the. rapid amount of dis disinformation that. is spreading. It's so much and it just. spreads like wildfire. And trying to. stay in front of that with fact, much. less, to your point, practical messaging. and logic, it is a real challenge. It's. funny because I I sit here a lot with. neuroscientists and psychologists who.

tell me about how the brain works and. they at a simple level they talk about. these two parts of the brain which is. like the rational prefrontal cortex and. then the emotional center like the lyic. system the amydala and they always tell. me that the most memorable um the part. of the brain that holds memories the. easiest and the best and that garners. the most attention is the emotional. center of the brain the amydala. So if I. say. >> that these people, these brown people. are coming over and they're rapists and. murderers. >> Yeah. >> It's much it's much more emotionally.

captivating than you telling me about. like. >> statistics on on how America recovered. faster than any so-called wealthy. country economically from the pandmic. >> Yeah, I I'll forget that within 10. seconds of you just saying it. But the. rapist and murderers thing, like my. objective sense goes, well, no, come on. It's not the problem. But there's part. of me that remembers that and that's. even as someone who I think is. relatively informed on the the reality. of the situation. I still I remember um. Dr. I think it was Dr. Tally Sharet. She's a neuroscientist. So she.

understands that vaccines don't give. kids autism. >> Yeah. >> But she recalls this time in the. election many. She recalls um I think it was Ben. Carlson or someone talking about the. science and then she the camera pans to. Trump and Trump is saying recounting a. story where a child who was this big. three-year-old beautiful child and they. came up to her with a needle this big. >> and they gave her the vaccine and she. got autism. Now science on one hand an.

emotional story in the other. I know. >> Tally, I think, said to me at the time, she goes, "Even though I know it's not. true, there was part of me. >> that was a little bit scared.". >> I know. >> So, my question here is how does how. does the Democratic Party win in such a. war when you're being fought with. emotion and fear? How do you win with. logic and rationality? like huh. >> I'll I'll answer your question directly. but I want to just add to the question.

um that I think part of the question has. to be what is the responsible of media. what is the role of corporateowned media. um god bless independent media. because a lot of it is also about what. set of information are people working. with you know for example I've talked to. a number of people who voted voted for. me. Saying to them who are having debates, disagreement, you know, ending.

relationships with people who voted for. him. And part of what I'm asking people to do. is not to assume that the people with. whom they disagree are working with the. same set of information. Now, I didn't. say facts because 2 plus 2 is four, >> but. I think it's a big mistake for us to. assume we're all working with the same. information. And then when you compound that with,

you know, intentional efforts to. misinform and disinform and targeted, I. I was a member of the Senate. Intelligence Committee when we. investigated Russia's interference in. the 2016 election. We declassified our findings. We made. them public. It included the fact that. this adversarial nation included in what. they targeted. They targeted black. voters. with the assumption that there are. certain people and demographically. certain groups who are more susceptible.

to an argument about why they should. distrust their government because they. have a lived experience that tells them. that. And so I would say flippantly, oh, so now all of a sudden the issue of race. in America is a national security issue. So everybody needs to deal with it. We. know that certain demographics are. targeted with miss and disinformation. Be they what we've seen around targeting. young voters or other groups based on. race or gender. So when we talk about the role of the.

Democratic party, there is a very big. role to play and there is a role for us. to to to require social media companies. to play, media companies to play and so. on because information is coming from. all of these places and and the. challenge is as big as. do we are we all working with facts. We have a team at my company, Flight. Story, called Flight X. And their. primary responsibility is innovating.

across our business so that we can save. time, money, be better at what we do. And one of the recent challenges I've. set to the team Flight X is to find ways. to save our company more time. And in. that conversation, Fiverr Pro, who a. sponsor of this podcast, came up. Fiverr. Pro, if you don't know, is like a. strategic lever we pull. It's a. marketplace of experts across 750. different categories. every single one. of them handv vetted for quality and. they have enterprisegrade reliability. And because I'm quite curious about.

what's possible with something like. Fiverr Pro, we're going to go one step. further and over the next few weeks, we're running an experiment with Fiverr. Pro to see just how much time we can. save and how much we can unlock using. their talent to accelerate our business. So, let's see how it goes. And in the. meantime, if you're looking for a player. talent to give your team time back, head. to fiverr.com/diary. and get 10% off your first order when. you use my code diary. A word you said there um piqued my.

interest, which is the word independent. media. >> Yes, >> I am independent media. >> Bless you. >> And I'm in a group of my peers like the. big podcasters in the world like Joe. Rogan, etc., and Alex Cooper. I know who. show you Anton um in as part of your. campaign. >> The media landscape is changing before. our eyes. >> rapidly. >> You're sat in a set now. You're the. madame vice vice president. You're sat. in effectively my kitchen, >> my old kitchen where they started, you. know, >> and that's crazy. Like 20 years ago, the. thought that you'd come to my kitchen is.

such a crazy thing. But it's in part now. because of the democratization of these. platforms and creating the content is. much cheaper and we have distribution. now across these big platforms. Many would say that it changed the. course of the election. Podcasting, >> not just the podcast you did or didn't. go on, but just the conversations that. take place on these podcasts. And. >> as I have to say, you know, as. podcasters, we don't have the same rigor. as traditional journalists, who I. respect a lot. We don't have the same. teams and real time fact, all those. kinds of things.

>> Podcasting, there was lots of. conversation around you going on Joe. Rogan's show or not going on, which. >> what is the what is the truth there for. anyone that hasn't yet read the book? Um. because Trump did like a hundred million. views on Joe Rogan's show and it in. three hours sat there getting to know. Trump and for better or for worse you. probably walked away from that. conversation feeling like you knew who. he was. >> I wanted to do Joe Rogan show and there. was a lot of games being played but I. wanted to do Joe Rogan show. I think. podcasting is a very.

powerful medium for people to get. information and and to your point a lot. of people that is a main source of. information and it's important for us to. support that. Joe Joe says you wanted he. want you want him to come to you which. is very un Joe like in terms of he. doesn't really travel in hindsight. do you wish you'd gone and done the show. for 3 hours at his studio in hindsight.

it I' I'd mean really it just would be. what what were we giving up I wanted to. do his show and a lot of people advised. me not to do his show because they. assumed as it turned out to be correct. that he was supporting Trump and that it. would not be a productive piece for me. But just like when I went on Fox News. with Brett Bear, my perspective was. they may have their bias, but there are. people that listen who are open-minded, and I'm going to go there and give them.

a chance to get to know me and give me a. chance to make my case to them. >> So, that was my perspective on Joe. Rogan, just like it was my perspective. on Fox. >> There was a lot of games being played. around the scheduling and it didn't. happen. Um, and you know, I I don't have. anything against um certainly not. against the people who turn on to Joe. Rogan and would love to be able to talk. with him in a direct manner um as I. wanted to during the campaign. >> Do you in hindsight wish you just put. your foot down and said, "I'm going to.

go do it.". >> I don't know if it would have made a. difference, but yeah. No, I wanted to do it. So, let. me just say that, right? So, I wanted to. do it and it would have been great to do. and I think it would have been helpful. to do. >> Yeah, I think so. So, it's just I mean. that the issue it was really about. what's the tradeoff in terms of votes. and where I spend my time. Do I spend my. time traveling for 5 hours and back. versus being for that period of time in. a swing state? >> Mhm. >> And that was the tradeoff. >> I guess it goes to the point. >> it wasn't about I don't want to do Joe.

Rogan or it believe me at that point in. a campaign it's not about oh is somebody. coming to me or me going to them. I. could care less about that. Pride is not. associated with it. It is more about. >> it's it is literally about return on. investment. >> Okay. And this goes to our point about. efficiency earlier. >> Yeah. Exact exactly right. The only. there's only one candidate. >> So where am I spending my time to get. the greatest return on the investment? >> If I was in charge of your campaign.

>> I would have 100%. put you in that environment. Even when I. look at the trade-off in part because. someone like me and I consider myself to. be like genuinely really objective. >> and my friends know me as being extreme. not just objective on camera but. objective in my personal life. >> I would have when you see a certain. environment present someone in a certain. way. >> You really like the. >> the thing that can burst that bubble is. seeing that person go into that. environment. And like when I saw you on. Fox News, I watched that interview as. well.

>> Um. >> I actually think it strengthens. strengthens your supporters and actually. those independents who are in that space. too can can get a feel for you. So I. would have love to see and I actually. think. >> I hope in this next election cycle when. is it 2028 I really would love to see. >> both sides going to both sides and I. actually think that's happening now. going into those going into those. environments. I do also tend to think. that Joe would have been fair. >> Mhm. >> Well that's why I wanted to do it. I had. to assume that that was possible. >> and either way he's very popular. I.

would have loved to watch that. >> I I regret that we didn't do it. I. definitely regret that we didn't do it. And um. listen, I have. been doing my work long enough that. for me it has I've never had the luxury. of saying I don't want to go into. uncomfortable situations. >> Mhm. >> You would need to have a different. profession. PR people some some can sometimes [ __ ].

things up for for other people. I think. I think in the new world there's this. new requirement to be more like a glass. box and less like a black box. I think. >> in 20 years ago the whole strategy of. businesses and brands and CEOs. executives was to basically be black. boxes where the PR team paints the. perception on the outside and in this. digital world where it's like the media. and platforms are distributed and all of. my employees here have cameras on them. at all times. The defense is like transparency because. I'm not going to let you craft my.

narrative. You're going to see it. >> That's why I wrote the book. >> Exactly. >> History is going to write about those. 107 days and I'm not going to let. >> that piece of American history be. written without my voice being present. >> Are you going to run again? Cuz I look. at the polls. I looked at the polls and. you're leading for the Democratic side. and there isn't really a clear. Democratic. >> candidate. I I interviewed Gav Gavin. Newsome as well, but when I look at the. polls, you're still leading. >> Yeah. You don't know. >> I don't know. Honestly, >> I feel like you know in your heart. >> What do I know in my heart?

>> I feel like you know if you're you're. going to run in your heart or if you. have a calling or a feeling to is. something germinating. >> I you know I'm focused on the book tour. sincerely. Yeah. And part of how I'm. feeling right now, part of the reason I. didn't run for governor of California, I. really don't want to be transactional. right now. You know, I don't I don't. want to be present because I'm asking. for a vote. >> Okay. Yeah. What's the case for running. again and what's the case for not.

running again? >> H I think the case for running again is. if I can make a difference. Honestly, if. I can make a difference, you know, if I feel that I can offer. something as president of the United. States that would be. not only. uplifting to the American people, but. would be um.

about, you know, getting us. on a correct trajectory. >> Do you know what my next question is. going to be? What. >> do you believe that you can offer. something to the United States that's. going to be uplifting and get us on a. better trajectory? >> I mean, that's why I ran the last time. Um, so 28 is is a far it's I mean it's. practically tomorrow, but it's it's not. and we'll have to see what happens over. the course of these next few months, several months.

>> Is there a case against running again? What would that be? >> You know, it's difficult to run for. president. takes a toll on your family. Takes a real toll on your family. You. know, anyone running for president. should really take very seriously the. decision cuz it is not for the faint of. heart. You have to be able to take a. punch and throw a punch, but you got to. be able to take a punch. >> A lot of punches. >> Yeah. There's something that comes with.

success. whether you're running for. president of the United States, build a. successful business, have a public. profile, um, which is among the the the difficult. aspects of it, and there are so many. positive aspects, but among the. difficult aspects is. putting yourself out there in a way that. you invariably. will be in a position hopefully Not with.

a lot of people, but where you will be misunderstood. That's an awful feeling. >> Yeah, it is. Yeah. >> Oh, it's an awful feeling to be. misunderstood. in this environment in particular. Invariably, you will put yourself in a. position where some people will hate. you. It's awful. They don't know you, but they'll hate. you. And. so to do anything that is about.

distinguishing yourself. by virtue of the thing you can offer or. a differentiation from yourself and. others of you know in a similar category. it it exposes you to a lot. Um and so. you have to know why you're doing it. And I believe that you have to do it for. something that is bigger than yourself,

not about your own power, not about your. ego, not about your entitlement. It has to be. because to endure the the the the not. just the process of getting into the. job, but the job itself, you got to be clear about why you're. there. on that night when you the. results come in and you realize that the. election hasn't gone your way and that. Trump is going to be elected. What would. I have seen if I was a fly on the wall.

in the room? >> I was in a state of shock. >> Really? >> Did you think the day before that you. were going to win? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> And so when did the the proverbial penny. drop? when I got a call from my campaign. manager. that it looks like we need 200,000 more. votes that we can't find. Meaning, it's just the map, the numbers. And.

the thing I kept saying over and over. again, I was in a state of shock. I I. was. I was so inarticulate, but maybe very articulate. What I kept. saying over and over again is, "My God, my God, my God.". >> Really, >> over and I couldn't stop. I. um I haven't felt that. emotion, anything similar to the emotion. I felt that day in for quite some time. Um other than.

the grief I felt when my mother died, I fel I knew what was going to happen to. our country. I knew I knew the harm that was going to. happen to people. and I I knew it. I knew what was going. to happen. You know, it's um. it's not like it's not about. winning. versus losing. It was never it was I.

knew the consequence. of the outcome of that election and that. pained me. So. >> I can still see the pain in your face. >> Oh, it's awful. It's awful. You look at what's. happening. It's I mean. it it's awful what's right now. The man is building a ballroom for a. bunch of his rich friends.

while. millions and millions of people are. about to lose their health coverage in. terms of their being able to afford. premiums for their health care. You look at the weaponization of the. Department of Justice. against political enemies. How titans of. industry are so afraid. that the capitulation that we're seeing. across the board, whether it be. universities, law firms, media.

companies, what's happening around gutting the. Department of Education, lunch programs for for for lowincome. children. I IEPs, individual education placement for for. special needs kids have I recently I'm. hearing the stories from mothers in. particular whose children have special. needs and they can't get an IEP. These are babies, the children who are.

most in need, their parents who are. struggling. If you know a parent who has a special. needs child, what that means to their. life emotionally, physically, financially, and and we're not even giving them. assistance with their educational. program for their children. Meanwhile, you're building a a gilded ballroom. So, the harm, it's extraordinary. all those working people, the tariffs,

what this is meaning for people. He he. made a promise that on day one he was. going to bring down prices and. prices are higher for groceries. Inflation is higher. Unemployment is. higher. And by the way, Stephen, it must. be said the failure of the Democratic. party will be going forward. to overlook the fact that it is bigger. than this one guy. It is not just about this one person who.

occupies the oval office. We are. witnessing what is the swift. implementation a high velocity event. that is the swift implementation of a. plan that has been decades in the. making. The strategy for dealing with. this moment has to include having some. historical perspective on how we got. here. That project 2025 didn't just fall. out of the sky. The idea of going after. public education, that's not new. the. Federalist Society, the Heritage. Foundation, what's what the the gerrymandering of.

districts, the the packing the court, this stuff. This is about a an agenda. that is not going to begin and end with. one person. And. the destruction, it's profound. There. are there are however. a small group of people who have access. to the power and are close to the power. who are doing quite well.

the rest you look what what's going to. happen terms of working people. >> does the again as an objective observer. the democratic party needs to take. responsibility. for you know because the US operates as. this sort of two-party system where it's. kind of like this person versus this. person left versus right. >> right. >> the left lost they played it wrong from. the the Democratic perspective they're. paying the price of losing the game of. chess and so I think about the.

Democratic party and you know They can. point at the the consequences of losing. that game, but I feel like the. Democratic Party needs to get their [ __ ]. together so that they don't lose the. game again. >> I agree. >> And that's the personal responsibility. point, which is like how do how do you. stop yourself from finding yourself in a. situation where at the last minute Joe. Biden is pulled out with 100 days to go. and no one mentioned it. I mean, you say. in the book that you you you at the time. thought of it as grace. You talk about. this on page 46. You say you thought it. was grace to not basically mention that. there was a problem and grace not to.

tell Joe Biden to pull out earlier, >> but actually in hindsight, you now think. it was probably reckless not to tell him. to pull out. >> on my part. Yeah. >> So what what what is that to you? What. does the Democratic Party need to to do. to. >> First of all, you know, if I had if I. had done it over. again, part of the reflection, um, you know, we had the infrastructure. deal. We had the Chips Act, so we're. building back up America's.

infrastructure. It's 150 years old. Chips is about. manufacturing chips. um US manufacturing. both incredibly important. If I had to. do it over again, I would have first. gone with our family policy that was. about extension of the child tax credit, affordable child care, paid family. leave. We needed to deal with the. immediate issues affecting the American. people. In fact, that's why I ran for.

the 107 days on those issues, including. having Medicare cover, for example, for. people in the sandwich generation who. are taking care of young children and. older parents, Medicare cover home. health care, right? >> Why I offered for small businesses that. they would get a $50,000 tax credit. because nobody can for startup small. businesses because nobody can start up a. small business on a $5,000 tax credit, right? So. >> do you think the left is somewhat seen. as the enemy of entrepreneurship? >> I think I think there is that.

perception. I don't know if that is the. case in reality but I think we need we. have some work to do. >> Yeah. I mean I I talk about in the book. for example I think it was a mistake to. not invite Elon Musk when we had um and. I'm no fan of his but I admire his work. as an innovator. >> and um as as you know the what he has. done in terms of American manufacturing. of electric vehicles. We should have had. him at the White House when we had all. the other electric vehicle American.

electric vehicle manufacturers. Right. >> I think this is part of the problem. And. when I read that, I was really happy to. read that cuz you can disagree with. someone in part, but still have the. nuance to be able to acknowledge this. part's good, but if you just shut them. out because of one thing, then you. really drive the vision. >> I mean, this gets back to my earlier. point about what's the motivation. >> for the decisions that a leader makes. And. the motivation I has has to be what is. for the greater good.

and and have the ability to put aside. you know those things that may may fall. in the context of being more personal. >> Mhm. >> But I think we have to do a better job. of also focusing on being a bit more. bold. For example, I think we should reduce. voting age to 16. I'll tell you why. So, Gen Z,

they're age about 13 through 27. They've only known the climate crisis. They missed substantial parts of their. education because of the pandemic. If they're in high school or college, especially in college, it is very likely. that whatever they've chosen as their. major for study may not result in an. affordable wage. They've coined the term climate anxiety. to describe fear of not only being able.

to buy a home, but that fear it'll be. wiped out by extreme weather, but fear. of having children. Um, it is expected that Gen Z will have. 10 to 12 jobs in their lifetime. They. are a larger number than boomers. There are specific generation of people. who are going to impact our nation and. the world. And I think we must invest in. them. But I think that they are rightly. impatient with a lot of what is the. tradition of leadership right now. And.

if they were able to vote because they. know everything that's happening right. now is going to impact them more than. anybody older than them for the most. part in terms of how these systems work. If they're voting right now at 16 and. up, they're going to be talking about. the importance of climate. They're going. to be talking about the importance of. figuring out how AI is going to affect. the future of the workforce. They're. going to be focused on what are we. really doing about affordable housing.

And basically in politics, here's the. the hard truth about this. There are two. centers of power that tend to influence. how politicians think. Groups that vote. the most and people who write the most. checks. And I'm going to go every day with the. people the people and and thinking about. how do we strengthen people actually. going to the polls and voting. Back to. my point in 2024 one-third of the.

electorate didn't vote. Let's focus on. why and are we talking with them? Are we. offering them bold solutions? Are we bringing ideas forward that are. speaking to their immediate needs? Are we are we doing it in an effective. way? Back to your point about podcast. and other mediums. >> If you run again, do you think you'll go. into those more rightle leaning. environments, media environments? Would. you go on, you know, I'm not saying. Joe's rightwing, but would you go on.

Joe's show? >> I would certainly I would go at Joe's. show if I'm not running. I have a lot to. say. >> Do you know when you'll make a decision? Like what's the time frame for someone? >> I don't know. I mean, I I don't know. I. obviously at some point we'll need to. make the decision. I haven't thought. about the timeline. Probably in the next. year. I mean, it's what is it? November. of 28. Primaries would be in June. >> And since that day when Trump won the. election and you were sat there saying, "Oh god, oh god, under your breath." How.

has the balance of that decision shifted. over time? Has the conviction grown from. that moment? Like in that, if I had. asked you in that moment when you were. saying, "Oh god, oh god, under your. breath." Would you have said never. again? And today are you more on the side of. potentially? >> That's a great question. I think. well I could start with this. I think my. family would have said never again. I. think that as time has gone by. Um and. people have had a chance including. myself to kind of.

sit with it, reflect on it. Writing the. book was very cathartic. Um being away. from it in terms of space and time. It. it has a way of mitigating the pain of. what that process was. >> Just like grief. >> Yeah. >> Use the word grief to describe that. feeling. So. >> you get to acceptance at some point and. >> Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, you're right. That's right. And you get. to process it. >> in a way that also is about what's my.

role to play. and what could I have done differently. as a way to help guide future decisions, whatever that be. I've built companies. from scratch and backed many more. And. there's a blind spot that I keep seeing. in early stage founders. They spend very. little time thinking about HR. And it's. not because they're reckless or they. don't care. It's because they're. obsessed with building their companies. And I can't fault them for that. At that. stage, you're thinking about the. product. How to attract new customers, how to grow your team, really, how to. survive. And HR slips down the list.

because it doesn't feel urgent, but. sooner or later it is. And when things. get messy, tools like our sponsor today, Just Works, go from being a nice to have. to being a necessity. Something goes. sideways and you find yourself having. conversations you did not see coming. This is when you learn that HR really is. the infrastructure of your company. And. without it, things wobble. And Just Work. stops you learning this the hard way. It. takes care of the stuff that would. otherwise drain your energy and your. time, automating payroll, health. insurance, benefits, and it gives your. team human support at any hour. It grows.

with your small business from startup. through to growth, even when you start. hiring team members abroad. So, if you. want HR support that's there through the. exciting times and the challenging. times, head to justworks.com now. That's. justworks.com. >> Right guys, going to go get Steve. The. guest is here. Ready? >> Come in. >> OH MY GOD. STEVE, what. >> what are you doing? >> This is uh the Bontage face mask. It's. good for blemishes, wrinkles, uh clears.

up the skin. It's red light. Have you. not used it before? >> No. >> I tried this before. It's um it's really. really good. It shines red light on your. face which helps increase and boost. collagen production. Actually found it. out cuz of the misses. Seen her wearing. it. She terrified me a couple of nights. in a row. Um I thought it was to scare. people with but actually it's really. really good for your skin. So they are a. sponsor of the podcast and uh I've been. using it every day for about a year and. a half now. >> Wow. >> Well, Steve is great. >> Yes. And Boncharge ships worldwide with. easy returns and a year-long warranty on.

all of their products. So visit. bondcharge.com/diary. for 25% off on any product sitewide, but. you have to order through that link. That's bondcharge.com/diary. with code diary. You talked about being. bold. Is that also in communication? Cuz. as I've seen you on this book tour, it. seems your communication has become. increasingly more bold. I've seen you. get up a couple of times and start. shouting a little bit at certain things. that pissed you off and being a bit more. unfiltered. And I think funnily I think.

polish is actually. >> uh detrimental. >> That's what I love about podcasting. It's so unpolished. Like I sit here in. my [ __ ] socks and it can it just. there's no your team's pretense. There's. no pretense. There's nothing you said I. couldn't ask you at all. Right. I was. wondering if that's. >> you've noticed that in yourself and if. that's you think that's important. Right. Like, am I just like, "Fuck it.".

>> Yeah, exactly. >> Don't ask the question with pretense. >> Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what I. mean. Are you just like, "Fuck it, now. it doesn't matter." Cuz the book had. [ __ ] energy. >> Yeah, I think there is that energy in. the book. But just like here, but here's. part of it that I um in writing it and. now this is how I feel about it. In so many ways, I've been in the belly. of the beast. and.

I I feel that the consequence. of an election for president of the. United States impacts billions of people. around the world. And yet the process can be so opaque. And what I also hope to do with the book. is just lift up the hood on it so people. could see how it runs. and in a way that if it's for a.

journalist, if it's for a high school. student, if it's for someone's. grandmother. to confirm or enlighten around what. people think it is in a way that they. can see themselves in their own power, you know, >> and that does require um demystifying it. and I guess part of demystifying is yeah. like I'm not going to hold on to oh this. kind of thing should not be talked. about. >> Do you regret running with only 107 days.

notice? Do you wish you hadn't ran? >> No, I don't regret running. I wish we. had more time. I truly wish we had more. time. I truly wish we had more time. I. don't regret running. >> Had you known the outcome, would you. have still ran? probably. because. you know one of the things that happened. and to this day. men and women, girls and boys come up to. me and say there was something about.

that campaign that excited something in. them. I can't tell you the number of. people who have come up to me and said, "I decided to run for office because you. ran.". The number of people who have come up to. me and said, "I decided to go to law. school because you inspired me with what. I The number of people who have told me. about their young children. who, you know, saw something and got. excited about it and wanted to be a part.

of it. I don't regret any of that. I I I. absolutely believe that we turned. something on.". In fact, I'm going to say this. differently because it's not like people. didn't have it in them. They had it in. them, but there was something that those. 107 days did to welcome, to invite, to. grow the optimism and dare I say the joy. that people do carry with them. And what. I hope to do with my voice right now is. to remind everyone,

please don't let your spirit be. defeated. We may not have won the. election, but our spirit can't be. defeated because then they really win. And sometimes the fight takes a while, right? So, I don't regret having run. in spite of the outcome. Um, but I do regret that we did not have. more time. >> You mean you've got more time now? >> Yeah. Time to do a podcast.

>> Time to run for president as well, potentially. go out. >> I um I look at I've got two pictures. here which I thought are beautifully. sweet. I'll show you both of them, but. >> Okay. >> I um Yeah, these these two pictures here. of dog. >> Oh, my doggy. Yeah. >> How you know when if I was in a. situation where the election results had. come in and I' had that call from my my. team saying that there's 200,000 votes. we can't find. >> I think I'd probably be turning to my my. partner in those moments.

>> Oh, I definitely did. Talk to me about. that. What's What role did he play? >> I mean, he is It sounds so corny, but he. truly is my rock. He is um. My husband is just fully. self-actualized. He's not pretending to be anything he's. not. He is a strong man who cares about. his family, cares about hard work. He is. loyal. He has a sense of humor. He's. very encouraging. He's very honest.

And you know I want that for anyone and. everyone. I know you talk with a lot of. people and you know about advice about. career and all of that. for any of us. What I want for anyone who has ambition. for success. have in your life and it doesn't have to. be a lot of people but that circle of. people who have some understanding of. what you're going through. and are there when you want to laugh at.

the thing you're not supposed to laugh. about. You want to use the words you don't use. wherever you pray. Um the people who you know I talk about. you know if you if you slip and fall. they'll laugh at you and then pick you. up and push you back out there. None of. us has achieved success without those. people in our lives. And it might be. your spouse. It might be your partner. It might be a family member. It it could.

be anybody. But but be intentional about. having those people in your life because. look, this is life. There, you know, so. cliche, they're going to be the ups, they're going to be the downs. It's it's. the. it's the beauty of living that, you. know, it it involves the whole spectrum, but when you have people that can be. with you on your journey, it just makes it better. >> Do you remember what he said to you that. night?

Well, he was in as much of a state of. shock as I was. We didn't I have to admit, we were not. very articulate that night. >> How long did that last? >> Well, not until I started writing the book. and getting to the chapter on election. night. Do you know that was the first. time Doug and I talked about election. night? >> Really? How how many weeks months was. that? >> Months. We had never talked about election.

night. Never. Had never talked about. election night. It was when I was. writing the book. That's when he told me. something I had no idea, which is he and. my brother-in-law had been campaigning. on election day in Michigan. All felt. good. I remember talking to him and he. said, "It feels good out here. Everybody's saying it feels good.". Then on their way back to DC, they got a call from a friend of ours. who was a Democrat who but who was a a.

pundit on Fox News and he was in their. boiler room, their war room. And he. calls Doug and my brother-in-law Tony to. say, "What are you guys hearing? Cuz. what I'm hearing concerns me.". I didn't know that happened. All I knew was Doug went campaigning. with Tony. I was campaigning. Everybody. was campaigning. I had a house full of. family. When he came back to the house, I knew something was like a little off. in retrospect.

What I didn't know is he had that. information. And he had gone up the stairs to take a. shower and pray. And. I didn't know until we talked about that. chapter because we talked about that. night. And then I was talking to him. about. we always do friends and family dinner. and I said, "Doug, remember the tables. and do you remember who was sitting at. our table?" And then and he said I said, "Remember when I gave the toast?" He. said, "You didn't give the toast. You.

didn't give a toast.". I said, "I did." He said, "No, you're. thinking about one of the other events. cuz we used to do dinners in that room.". No, it was our friends and family. dinner. I gave a toast. So, I looked for. the photographs of that night and I. found one and there I am standing giving. a toast. Doug was so in his head at that point. worried. about what he heard from our friend. about what Fox News was reporting. in their boiler room. He didn't really.

experience any of that. You know, have. you ever had those? Yeah. >> But you've just like something is so. weighing on that you're not experiencing. anything that cuz that's all you're. thinking. M. >> But he didn't want to tell me that. night. He prayed it would it was going. to be different. >> In hindsight, could you tell that. something was off with him? >> In hindsight, I could tell. >> And I um. and yeah, and we never, you know, cuz we we had to function.

We had a house full of people, family. the next day. cuz we were going to go to Howard. University's campus, my alma mater, to. give a victory speech the night of the. election, um told everybody to come back the next. day. And so then I had to get ready to. go and give a speech, which was a. concession speech. And actually to the. point of, you know, I had to reconcile, I would close every rally by saying,

"When we fight, we win. And it was not as simplistic as well, you win some, you lose some. And I was. trying to figure out how do I, especially for all those young people, how do I help them reconcile that? And. on the way to the giving the speech, I. wrote into the speech, well, sometimes. the fight takes a while. But when I got. So when we got to the when we got to. Howard, we were in the, you know, green. room and our family was there. So this. is how awful I am. I'm looking,

everybody's crying. And I just looked at. them. I said, "We are not having a pity. party. We are not having a pity party." And I. was just on. function, you know, and then it was um. and then it was, you know, I had the. we we ended up we had a a trip planned. to Hawaii for vacation.

from many many months ago and there was. a emergency happening in the world and. so I couldn't go and we couldn't go and. we forgot that we actually cuz we had. paid to rent this house and my team. being so great they're like why don't we. see if we can get you to go to that. house now. >> Mhm. And as I reflected on it, it was. literally, it wasn't a vacation. It was. like the oxygen mask just dropped and we. put it on and went to Hawaii and. some friends of ours met us there and we.

were like zombies, you know, for a. while. It was just it was we it was a. very difficult thing to process. >> Is that depression? >> Um, probably. I mean it's it's a it's. there is the thing about one um. about you know going going going going. and then all of a sudden. so there is that which is just your body.

is physically used to this thing that. all of a sudden stops and I've had that. happen every time I've run and win even. right. >> like what it gold medal depression. >> right right. >> when you win the gold medal people get. depressed because. >> yeah because you because you've been. you've been functioning the whole time. in a very competitive nature and it's. fight or flight and it's adrenaline. adrenaline adren surging surging surging. and then there is the piece that is. about.

I mean it it lasted for days which is. almost that you know they talk about. when people um. lose a limb there's the like the ghost. or the phantom. >> phantom limb yeah. >> right the phantom limb them and I had a. hard time reconciling. We can't still do. something about it. I had a just I I knew it's just like I. knew I was going through the stages of. grief. I knew, you know, so that's good. to be able to put a label on something, but it doesn't mean that you don't. otherwise experience it.

>> You weren't helpless at that point. Yeah. >> I wasn't I was just like there's. something there must be something I can. do. Do you reflect on um I know your. your mother passed away when in your. early you were in your early 40s. I. think she was 70 years old roughly and. she was colon cancer. her birthday was December 7th. She died. February 11th. She was just 2 months. into being 70. >> Is her spirit and her her presence still. with you in these moments? And do you. reflect on what she had be thinking of.

all this? >> Very much. Very much all the time. Um, she I mean I can't. if my I you know it's funny I've talked. to a couple people who have lost their. parents who. were. who've lost them recently but whose. parents had a similar nature to my. mother. And one of them said to me most. recently, she said, "I'm so glad my.

father is not alive to see this because. it would kill him.". I was just talking to somebody recently. who just said that. Um, oh, my mother. would be I'd pro, you know, it would be. a great distraction for me if my mother. were alive right now because I'd have to. spend full time talking her down. would be, oh, you know, when I talked about that. safe space, >> so early on when I was running for DA, this is when I realized I need to have. like that core group of like that safe. space. And I thought my mother would be.

a perfect person to be in it. And I realized that was a huge mistake. on my part because my mother wanted to. kill everybody. and then I'd have to spend full time. talking her down instead of dealing with. how I needed to address a situation. So that's my mother's nature. We used to. call her mommy. That's mommy's nature. >> She'd be so proud.

>> Oh, she would be proud. She'd be very. proud. She um Oh my god. So, she passed. just before my election as attorney. general. and I was I took care of her when she. was sick and we were um this is one of. those days and there were weeks where. she needed to be in the hospital and so. she was I was with her in the hospital. She's in the bed and I was in the chair. sitting next to her and so like I'm here.

and she's here and she was just kind of. resting. and she said to me, "How's the campaign. going?". And she's and I'm sitting here. I said, "Well, mommy, this is truth." I said, "Well, mommy, they said they're going to kick my ass.". My mother turned over and looked at me. and smiled. Swear to God. >> She didn't say anything.

>> She smiled like, "Yeah, let them try.". Uh-huh. That was my mother. Yeah. >> You miss her? >> Oh, all the time. Yeah. All the time. But, you know, it's um. here's the thing about life. One of the things that I've learned um. you know it's just like having.

the things that can be it's the duality. The things that can be a great blessing. and. have a huge impact. When it's not there. it feels like a huge loss. It's like you asked earlier would you. have done it differently then? Would we. ever say because we've experienced the. loss of someone we love that we would. not have loved? Never. Right. Never.

Yeah. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Um I'm not going to We do have a closing. tradition, but I think we're out of. time. >> Um I'm going to ask you anyway. [ __ ] it. Okay. >> Um the closing tradition is the last. guest leaves a question for the next. guest, not knowing who they're leaving. it for. And the question left for you is. if there was a moment in the last 10. years you would do differently, what. would it be and why? >> Oh, >> I mean this is quite. the whole interview. I wrote read my. book.

>> Okay, we'll leave it at that. Read the. book 107 days. um Kla Harris. It's an. incredible book because it's so. unbelievably honest and it's so. unbelievably human and it lets you see. behind a curtain one does not usually. get to see behind which is extremely. extremely rare but extremely. illuminating and valuable. Um your. career is one that has inspired me. tremendously because you've broken down. walls, broken through ceilings and. continue to do that. And if anyone takes. the time to read your book or look. through the story of your life, it is. irrefutable that your agenda is to to. serve people. Thank you so much for.

giving me your time today. >> Thank you. I'm very very touched by. that. Thank you. Thank you. [Music].