Jim Chapman: Overcoming Failure Anxiety, Finding Love & Life-Changing Therapy | E78

There's a lot of rumors surrounding Jim. and today he addresses some of them for. good. My dad, he was out of my life from. fairly young. He was arrested. He was in. prison for a while. He was definitely. sociopathic. I wonder what man I would. be if he had stuck around. Oh, I've lost. count the amount of times I've been. called a cheater. Me and Tanya broke up. just over 2 years ago. Me and Sarah got. together as far as the world is. concerned a few months later, but. obviously that wasn't it because the. world only found out me and Tanya broke. up when we decided to tell them. cuz I. lost my [ __ ] the other day on on social. media. So, I can take hate. I've got a.

thick skin. It doesn't it bounces. straight off. I don't care. This is my. job. It's not a personal reflection on. me. But when it comes to somebody. calling my pregnant fiance the names. they called her and saying that my baby. should be miscarried, that's where I. draw the line. [music]. Some people come on this podcast and. they're cy. Sometimes they even try and. bend the truth, protect their ego. Dare.

I say it, sometimes they even lie. Not. my next guest. Completely, utterly, brutally honest, raw, unfiltered, and. vulnerable. He's a British celebrity. with six or seven or 8 million. followers. But you don't know Jim. You. don't know Jim Chapman. Almost nobody. does. Today, we're talking about. success, the chronic curse of. overthinking. We're talking about love, breakups, rumors, both of the. similarities in our mindsets. We're. talking about how you need to be a.

contradiction in various parts of your. life if you're going to be happy. Something I didn't realize until today, until this conversation. And we're. talking about child abuse. Child abuse. to an extent that most of us could and. should hopefully never be able to. imagine. We're talking about paralyzing. anxiety, social media, its upsides and. downsides, and what all of this life. stuff is fundamentally about. Unavoidably, there's a lot of rumors. surrounding Jim. And today, he addresses.

some of them for good. Without further. ado, I'm Steven Bartlett and this is the. Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's. listening, but if you are, then please. keep this to yourself. [music]. Jim, I always think the most important. place to start when I have these. conversations is getting to know the. experiences. that made you who you are today because. for me that. creates the context for everything we're.

about to discuss. And a lot of the time. people don't really know those things. Um, so tell me about some of the. experiences when you were younger, when. you're in school, um, that you think. have contributed to the man you are. today. Okay. Um, I guess, and God is instantly. going to sound like a so story and it. absolutely is not. This is a positive. thing. I guess the first thing that. springs to mind is my dad. So, uh, my. dad was he did some bad things like he. he abused my mom um, from even before I. was born. I got two older sisters who,

um, you know, dealt with it as well. I. don't think he ever turned a hand to. them, but he verbally was very I mean. even I remember that and I was super. young. I remember him being very very. hurtful and very unkind and just. bullying to to my sisters. Um I think he. always wanted boys so my brother and I. were kind of like I've got a twin so we. were like the the prodical children I. suppose. Um, it I didn't know this cuz. obviously I was born into it, but it's. not it wasn't until I got a little older.

and I would have like sleepovers at. friends houses or I would just be in the. presence of other people and their. parents and I'd be like, "Wait, your. house isn't terrifying? That's that's uh. this is great." You know, and I think I. got as I got slightly older, I realized. that things weren't quite right. And it. was one day uh my brother and I were in. the room next door where we slept my my. parents. And we walked in and my dad was. like on top of her just beating the [ __ ]. out of her basically. And my brother and. I, we were only tiny, we must have been. like five or six, tried to pull him off, but obviously he was huge, so just.

pinged us away. And it was a wild night, you know, the police came, took him. away, um, etc., etc., just kind of and. he I didn't know at the time, but he had. been beating my mom and abusing her for. years. [snorts] But of course, she was. trapped. Now, my mom is a saint, but. also she doesn't tolerate fools. She's. not I think the thing about domestic. abuse is a lot of people go, "Oh, just. get out of there. Just get out of. there." It's not It's not as simple as. that. She had her kids to think of. I.

remember being in the car with my dad. and he would threaten to just crash the. car and kill us all. He drove like a. maniac. He was drunk quite a lot. My mom. couldn't just leave with four children. because he found us. We tried to leave. and he found us, you know. So I think um. that he's very much a cautionary tale. for me. Um he was out of my life from. fairly young but never fully out because. he you know was taken away by the. police. He was arrested. He was. imprisoned for a while but despite the. fact that we had like a court order that.

he couldn't come near. He still came. near all the time. At one point he. kidnapped is a very strong word but at. one point he took me. Um it just kind of. came to the window and I was his son. You know he was my dad. I worshiped him. and I still didn't fully understand. So. I remember going to the window and. saying, "Mom's calling the police. You. have to go." And he just sort of went, "Okay." And just took me with him and. drove. We're in a bloody police chase. Drove like super fast and the police had. to kind of, you know, stop and pull him. over. Um it was, you know, it's a it was. a very unsettling time for a child. But.

because of that, he was removed and I. spent most of my childhood being brought. up by my mom and my big sisters. So I. wanted for nothing. Um, I was very well. loved, very well protected, super well. looked after. And I think actually I I. often wonder, and I was having this chat. with Sarah the other day because. obviously we've got a child on the way. Uh, and I was thinking, I wonder what. man I would be if he had stuck around or. or if we couldn't get away from him or. whatever it would have been. Um, and you.

know, whether he wanted to or not, he. taught me a lot of lessons. Um, but I. think mostly. cautionary lessons because my family are. bloody great. You know, there's uh got. two big sisters, I've got a mom, I've. got a twin brother, and I would choose. no one else on the planet to take those. roles. If I had the choice, they would. be the people I choose, 100%. Um, and he. missed out on that because he was. unwell, I would say. Um, he had MS and I.

always remember him you being a victim. of it in a way. that my sister inherited. from it from him. And she's so. positive with it. Like she's not a. victim. She doesn't let it beat her. She. has times where she's tired. It gets on. top of her. She has a little sob. She. goes to bed. She recognizes the signs. though and she goes, "Right, okay. It's. getting on top of me. I need to rest for. a while." I remember my dad just being. like a victim of it and being like, "It. ruined my life. It did this." He used to. play football, from what I understand, a. fairly highish level. like kind of he.

played for West Ham, not in the A team, but something and he was like, "Oh, the. MS ruined it for me." Which I'm sure it. did. You know, there's no question with. that. But life deals you cards and you. react, you behave in a way that you that. you see fit. Um, and he. let the cards life dealt him ruin. everything, I think. And I think because. of that, he was angry. Um, I also I.

mean, and I I don't say this lightly, but I think he was definitely. sociopathic. He manipulated everybody. and a lot a lot of it my mom didn't even. know about until we were clear from him. and then people start asking her for. money because, you know, he owed it to. them. I mean, he he went to prison for. like armed robbery or something like he. was just, you know, he did really bad. things. Um, so I think for me that's. kind of the first thing my mind goes to. when someone asks me about kind of um. childhood.

um formulation of me. But I don't. necessarily think of it as a negative. thing cuz actually I think that because. he was removed from my life by my. protectors by my mom, my big sisters, I. had a wonderful childhood. you know, we. didn't have any when he was around there. was more money because I think he stole. a lot of money and because he he took. it, you know, there was two parents. earning, but also he he earned it by. sort of nefarious means. Suddenly, we. had no money. Um, and my nan had to like. buy the house that we lived in and we. stayed at my mom's best friends for like. a year or so because she took us in cuz.

we couldn't afford anywhere else. But I. was safe and I was happy and I was like. my mom had more capacity to be a better. mom because she wasn't constantly. running for the hills, you know. So. actually I think that it's a really. positive thing um that happened because. imagine if he was still around. Imagine. if he was still my father figure now. At. 33, I'd be a mess for one thing, I. think, but I'd also be I wonder if I'd. be a not a nice man. And actually, I.

pride myself on being decent and kind. Um, and he missed out on that. I read a little bit about the story as I. was doing some research on your book and. things like that. And one of the the. most startling parts of all of this is. how much empathy, dare I say, you appear. to have for this man, which I think. people would find surprising. I think. you said I don't blame him for how. things happened. Yeah, I don't I I I actually I I think. of myself as quite an empathetic person.

Um I rarely have arguments with people. Um I do with Sarah obviously because we. live under the same roof. Um and like we. have disagreements, but. your fiance? Yes, my fiance. Yes. Um although not at. the moment because she's pregnant, so. [laughter] she can do no wrong. Um, but. I I do have uh I tend not to have like. extra personal drama because I I do. consider how it would be from someone. else's perspective and I appreciate. that. Yes, okay, I could have my say. because I feel slighted about a thing. and I could say, well, you did this and. it made me feel that, but that's my.

feelings on an action that they um did. and they will have equal and opposite. feelings on the way I behaved because of. their actions. Nobody I don't I believe. nobody will go out of their way just to. be a prick. You know, they've always got. their thoughts and feelings and their. motivations. And I don't think anyone's. doing it like, "Oh, that will piss Jim. off. I'll do that." You know what I. mean? That they're living their life. We. all live in our bubble. My uh my therapist calls it the. lifeboat. We all live in our lifeboat, right? Um but we're all on the same ocean. So.

depending on how good your lifeboat is, you will weather the storm or not, right? There's a storm on the ocean. We're all in it. Especially at the. moment, there's a pandemic, right? We're. all in the pandemic together. But it. depends on the boat you're sailing on. Um, and there are times when boats kind. of bump into each other or someone's in. a dinghy and you need to sort of tie. them to yours for a while and help them. get through things or whatever. Um, but. I really don't feel like anybody is. purposely.

um an ass. It might be manipulative. They might see a way that they can. behave that will um better them in in a. situation where they go, "Okay, I'll. come off better with that." And it might. it might do him no favors, but you know, they're not doing it for that reason. They're doing it for that reason. They're doing it because they want to um. have a better situation for them, not. just to piss me off. So, I tend not to. have arguments. I will say to someone, "That's not cool. Can you see that from. my perspective?" Um,

and do you and and do you think so when. you think about your the situation with. your dad, it seems like from that you. you avoid attributing blame to him and. then so I'm I'm questioning myself. I'm. saying is that because you understand. the reasons why he was the way he is or. um. you have empathy for. I have Yeah, I just I think I just have. empathy for for people. I don't I think. there's definitely blame. I think we all. we all have to own our own actions. Um, but I think there are also.

there are reasons behind actions. I. don't think it's ever as simple as he. hit my mom just because he's aggressive. I think you have to dig deeper. Like my. my my granddad was so his dad not okay. I remember being I remember going to his. house and he'd be like watching. not porn but like softcore in front of. us, you know, as just he was just I. don't I don't know if he was just a bit. like. um scenile at that point or or or what,

but you know, it's not all right to do. that with young kids around. Um. and you see these generational cycles, right? 100%. Yeah. And I'm very proud and very. happy to have broken that cycle because, you know, I don't I don't know what his. dad was like, but my granddad taught my. dad his behavior. Not all of it because. I actually I actually do think there was. um I actually do believe my dad had. sociopathic tendencies which isn't. necessarily a taught thing. It's more. like a brain function thing, you know. Um but I think there was definitely.

something there and it didn't help. having his dad. teach instill in him certain beliefs and. patterns or whatever. Quick one. Starting from the minute the. lockdown is lifted, we're going to start. bringing in some of our subscribers to. watch how this podcast is produced. behind the scenes means you get to meet. the guests, meet myself, and see how we. put all of this together. If you want. that to be you, all you've got to do hit. the subscribe button. My mom is a very. loud person, and that's a huge.

[clears throat] understatement. Like, loves to scream in people's faces, very. short temper. My dad is a certain way. And as I've got older and older, I've. got more conscious that at times I feel. like myself becoming a little bit like. them in certain moments. And it scares me sometimes. I think. and I think well genetically of course. I'm half of each of them. So um have you. ever has it ever concerned you in the. same way that you might have picked up. some of the unpleasant traits of either. of your parents? Um has crossed your mind.

I'm turning into my mom for sure. My mom. my mom has unpleasant traits only in as. far as she for example when I moved. house wouldn't stop going on about. parking like that sort of thing. Oh you. better get parking. My mom I live in. London you don't get off streetet. parking. I've got a parking permit. I. park around the corner. That's my life. But she's like oh you need to get a. driveway. I'm like no I don't. Like. that's the sort of thing she won't let. it drop. She's got a fact in her mind. about um Trump for example and she goes. oh Trump's bad. He did this thing. I'm. like yeah but what about all the other.

things he did? you know, so she's um. that's her kind of annoying trait. And. if that's the worst I get, then I'm fine. with that. Um as far as my dad, I don't. think I mean, yeah, like I say, he's. half me or I'm half him, I suppose. Um. but I think that the thing is my my. degree is in psychology, right? So I. know a little bit about it and I'm. always quite conscious. Like I know for. example, there are certain genes that. will only get triggered under certain. environments. So yes, all right, I might. well have his gene for something, but if.

I don't if I'm not in a environment. where it's had to uh where it would have. expressed itself, then I might never. And I also think that there is an. element of um I guess consciousness that. can override that. Self awareness. Yeah. Self awareness. and education because therapy, psychology, totally. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very um I work. on and I I hate this I hate saying this. because it sounds like really wanky, but. I work on bettering myself, you know? I.

I I know my flaws. I work too much. Like. I forget to bring my head up and I. neglect Sarah sometimes because I'm too. busy typing away or I'm too busy in my. own little world stressing about. whatever I'm stressing about, which. doesn't need to happen, but it does and. I I'm aware of that and that's the sort. of thing I work on. But I've never been. aggressive, never been violent. Um I. weirdly I do boxing quite a lot but it's. not about the violence of it. It's about. the chess of it. Like I really like the. it's an intellectual sport. You know,

you have to be smart. You have to think. about where you're positioning all the. time. Um and I've never this is not I. don't know if this is not in my nature, but it's something that I won't. entertain. There are times where I get. driven bonkers by Sarah or by people and. I just think, "Oh my god, I could just. like nut you right now." Obviously, I'm. never going to because it's just every. fiber of my being is would not allow me. because I've seen the impact. I've seen.

I'm 6' three. I could do some real. damage. Um, but I just never would. So, I I I do get loud sometimes if I'm, you. know, if we're having an argument, I. will kind of just talk louder. And. I think with me and Sarah in particular, it's tricky because we're both quite. smart. And [laughter] so when it comes. to an argument, we're just trying to. outsmart each other the whole time, which makes it really frustrating. We're. both going, "No, you're wrong because of. this." [laughter]. And both of you are right. Yeah. And actually, yeah, there's truth. in both. Um, for sure.

Um, but it's really hard to see that. when you've got your blood up, you know. what I mean? But I totally think that. there's no there's. I've got I like to think I've got the. best bits of my mom. Um, and if there is. any kindness in my dad and and I. remember moments. I don't I don't have. loads of memories of of him. 90% of them are negative and scary. But. there are moments I remember him sitting. down with me and reading there was a. magazine, I forget what it was called, but he used to get like um little bit of. a figure every time and he'd make the. figure and it was like something to do.

with bugs and we made a big spider. 12 quid per magazine. basically. Yeah. Really, really. overpriced. But I remember him um he. would read it with me from cover to. cover and we'd put the bug together. Now, there would end up being six issues. um that we didn't get done and we'd have. to do them in one go because he wasn't. around because he was gone doing. whatever he was doing and um he would. let me down a lot. But I remember doing. them and I remember loving that time. with him. Um. what kind of dad do you want to become? Because you've got a kid on the way now.

Congrats again. Yeah. [laughter] Thanks. Um, it's really. hard to say this because I know that. every first time prospective parent. goes, "Oh, I'm going to be the best. dad." And actually, you know, invariably. we'll all [ __ ] up at some point, right? It's going to happen. Um, I just I think. for me if I can have a child and if I. can instill in them the waste of time in. anxiety like that just the the just the. sheer. nonsense of it. Like I I really want.

them to understand that worrying does. nothing. You know, yes, all right, we. can be stressed about things. There are. times when life is hard and things. there's challenges to overcome, but you. overcome those challenges when they. present themselves. There's no My. therapist once said to me, when you. worry, you rob yourself twice, right? Because the first time around, you're. overwhelmingly thinking about nothing. but a potential problem which may never. rear its head. If it doesn't rear its.

head, then you've wasted time worrying. about it. If it does rear its head, then. you're forced into action because you. can't stay in that situation. So why. stress about something that's never. going to happen or you know something. that you will solve if it does happen? So I really want my child to understand. just be content I think um and to know. that both me and Sarah and all of our. families so my my siblings my mom. Sarah's siblings and her parents will. always be there to help. You know I. think that if I can do that then I'll.

have done a good job. Um I want to be. patient. It's in my nature. I'm a very. patient person. Um, but I also know that. I'll be tested. So, when I do snap, I. snap quite quite loudly. So, I want to be calm. I want to be. patient. I want to be soft and. considerate. Um, and again, empathetic. because. the thing about kids is I I really. appreciate is they get frustrated. because they're obviously told what to. do by their parents. They can't.

necessarily verbalize or especially. don't have the communication ability to. say, "No, that's not what I want." You. know, they have to appreciate that. obviously what I want overrules it for. the most part because safety or. whatever. Sure. But I think they I also need to. appreciate that they'll be frustrated. because they can't communicate. effectively why they feel pissed off. because I've said no. Um, and that will. often come out in like tantrums or. whatever. So, and they won't understand daddy's world. and why when they're trying to get your.

attention, they don't know you're on a. Zoom call pitching something, for. example. They're just like, "Daddy won't. play with me." You know? So, totally. That's interesting. I also want to make sure I'm around. enough. My job totally allows that. Like, I have time. I can work as little. or as much as I want. That's that's the. beauty of my job. Obviously, I work. less. I earn less. But, you know, I can. make those sacrifices. I don't at the. moment. That's my problem. I work. constantly because I like what I do and. because of the constant my it's anxiety. I'm constantly worried about if I take. my foot off the gas, what happens next? I find that fascinating. But I picked up.

on that before we started recording. because every time we talked about your. screenplays or other things you're. working on, you would then end the. sentence with. but I might lose it all. Right. And I I don't resonate like that. I. found that interesting because it's not. how I end my sentences. But it was it. was like you would tell me something and. then you would also then almost caveat. it at the end with there is a chance I. might not I might not get it or I might. lose it all. Yeah. And I I I find it particular because I.

don't think in that way. So where does that come from in you? This. my mom. right. uh 100%. Again she's wonderful. She has. like a like an ethos. It's not a saying. but it's an ethos which is like a day. doing nothing is a day wasted. Um she. can't relax. I can't relax as a. consequence. Um, if I'm sitting there. just chilling, even if I'm watching a. film, which for me I consider as. research because I write films, right? If I'm watching something, I'm like, "Oh, okay. I see what they're doing. there." And it's like, I don't watch. them passively. I'm constantly thinking.

about them. Um, but even if I'm sitting there. watching a film, I'm like, "Oh, I. shouldn't be doing it." 9:00 p.m., right? It's it's the evening and I'm. supposed to be relaxing and I'm sitting. there going, "I shouldn't be doing this. I shouldn't be doing this." That's my. biggest. What's your brain saying in that moment? It's telling me off. It's it's going, "Dude, you need to be you can't just be. sitting here watching. You need to be. doing you need working and making what. what if this all goes wrong? How are you. going to earn the money? How are you. going to afford to look after your child. and pay the mortgage and you know all. that stuff?" Um,

a lot of people will resonate with that. for sure. Um, and you've addressed it in therapy. Yeah. What have you learned? I learned that I do it. [laughter]. Okay. Which a lot of people don't even know, right? That self-awareness of knowing. that it's a problem you have. Mhm. And and it's taken me I've been. seeing my therapist for Christ six, seven years, something like that. How often? Uh it varies. If I'm going through a. moment, then more often. At the moment, like once every six weeks because I'm. pretty chill. Um. but it's taken her most of our time.

together just to crack that. And she. sort of said, you know, with me it's my biggest um strength and. also my biggest flaw. It just depends on. where it is on the dial. Like if I've. got that at seven, it's great because. I'm motivated and I'm enjoying my work. and I'm loving it and I'm sitting there. going, "God, I'm really good at this.". You know, and I'm typing away or doing. whatever I'm doing. If it's an eight or a nine, it's. torture. Paralyzed or. Yeah. often paralyzed. Often paralyzed,

ironically, into doing nothing because. I'm so busy stressing about. getting it done. I don't [clears throat]. get it done because I've got no brain. space because it's too busy whizzing. around in my head going, "Get it done. Get it done. get it done. Um, so there's a point where it's sort. of really um, ironically kind of just it's the. antithesis of what it's designed for. And I think I I think I get a lot of. that from my dad because I remember. being young. knowing that it was easier to be busy. and keep myself separate. So I used to.

draw. I'd be really arty. Um, and that's. one Yeah. I sit out of harm's way and I. So you would draw straw in the corner. because you felt safe if he if you were. busy and he was. I wasn't if I wasn't in his in his ey. line. I couldn't be chastised or it was. safer. Think of my dad, he was very. unpredictable. So which is terrifying. for a kid, right? Because you don't know. if you're going to get love or you're. going to get punishment for the same. action. Um so I would spend most of my. time just kind of getting on with stuff. And because of that, I've developed a.

real independence, um, a real. creativity. But if it's turned up too. high, it's crippling. Whereas, if it's. at a good number, um, then it's what's. got me to where I am. I I 100% would not. be here without that because I just. wouldn't work as hard as I do. Um, but I. don't need to work as hard as I do. You. know, human beings have a couple of. things they need to do. They need to. sleep. They need to eat. They have the. option of procreating. [laughter]. That's kind of it, right? What else is. there? The rest of it is just made up,

right? [laughter] The rest of it is just. made up [ __ ] that we've given ourselves. to do. Society has told us that in order to be. a complete person, we need to climb, right? Totally. And it's bloody. stressful. It's it's it's debilitating. sometimes. So, when I have that turned. up too high, I end up doing nothing. But. I worry myself. And Sarah's like, "Where. have you gone?" Like, I just disappear. And I don't talk. I don't like I haven't. been like this for a while because I'm. pretty good at recognizing the signs and. I know to take my foot off the gas a bit. because of, you know, all the therapy. I've had. Yeah, it's it's the bloody worst.

What has helped you? Um, therapy. Yeah, it's absolutely that. being aware of it. There's there's a. point I always say this because I've. actually couple of my best mates have I. don't know a guy that's my age that. doesn't need it by the way. Um, [laughter] so a couple of my best mates. I've put them in touch with therapists. or sort of said something, you know, I. think you should see someone. And. actually, we're really open and honest. with each other. We're constantly. looking out. If one of us is quiet on. the group chat, we'll go, dude, are you. all right? You've been a bit quiet. Um I. said to him at the time I was like.

there's a really tough point with. therapy where you start seeing someone. and at first you're really resistant. She's like no I'm fine. What are you. talking about? But when they point. things out to you like [ __ ] I'm not. fine. But you're aware of doing it but you. have no tools in place of how to stop. doing it or how to at least challenge. it. So you're just punishing yourself. for doing it. Like I remember going. through that stage for a long time going. I hate that I'm failing. I hate that I'm. still stressing out about [snorts] being. like working constantly or not working.

constantly or whatever it is. I hate. that I'm doing it to myself, but I can't. stop. And you feel a bit like a junkie, you know, in a way that you're like, you know, it's wrong. You know, you. shouldn't be doing it, but you can't you. can't not. Um, and actually it takes a. while to learn the techniques. You know, mine is as simple as it's it's it's. painful that I have to go, right, stop. Just don't do it. Take step away from. your laptop. step away from your camera, do what whatever it is you're doing. Have five minutes. If you feel better. after 5 minutes, go back to it. If not,

then take the rest of the day off. Um, and that's what I have to do. I I need. to be Sarah needs to keep me in check. quite a lot because if I sometimes it. sneaks up on me and I'm kind of like at. stage four before I even realize it. I'm. like, [ __ ] I'm in too deep. Um, so. she's [clears throat] often like, dude, come back. Um, and that's really. helpful. It's hard though because you. don't want to be told by someone that. you're not performing the way you. should. You know what I mean? Especially someone that matters, right? Right. Totally. Especially when it's. your already your weakness.

Um but you need to be like I actually. really like criticism. So it's good for. me. Like you know if I send someone some. work or something and they go, "Oh, okay." As long as it's constructive, you. know, they go, "Okay, I see what you're. doing here. Don't like that." That. that's not great. I thrive on that. I'm. back in there and I'm, you know, so I. think having. other third parties be like, you're not. doing right right now. Um, and that's. something that I really want to be.

totally aware of when it comes to my. child cuz I don't want to be an absent. father. I don't want to be a dad that's. always going, "No, no, no, no. I'm just. not my lap, so come back to me in 5. minutes." I I want to be able to, obviously, I have to work. you know, we. all have a living, but I want to be able. to have my kid with me and be present, you know, and not them think that. they're sort of auxiliary or like an. afterthought or just an addition. I want. them to know that they are the center of. my universe. You know, I say this every week, but I'm going to. say it again. Um, it is a tremendous.

pleasure to have a podcast sponsor that. a you've used for maybe 3 years. People. ask me as well, they say, "How many. huels do you drink a day?" The answer is. probably about two, sometimes two and a. half. Um, but a podcast sponsor that you. genuinely believe can help people change. their life for the better. Um, watching. the team at Hule argue with each other. and be so uncompromising about the. ingredients that go into this bottle or. the bags or the bars or the hot and. savory has only strengthened my.

evangelism for this brand. Watching the. founder Julian and the CEO James insist. that only the best ingredients go in. here and be so scientifically precise. about what goes in this bottle and in. the bars and in the bags has only made. me love this more because I know they've. got my back and I wish all of you could. be in those boardrooms that I've been in. and watch them fight for your and my. health um via this product. So, professionally, we talked a little bit about your work.

there. One of the things that uh that. you've said is you don't like being. called like an influencer, like a. YouTuber. Uh I think it's really reductive. Yeah. Um and I think that actually if you look. at, you know, if you just weigh up the. quantity of work I do, it's only about. less than [clears throat] 50, I'd say. Um unfortunately, I don't get paid for. the other stuff yet. [laughter]. That's how it starts, you know. So yeah, you get paid for YouTube at the start, right? Absolutely. Yeah, totally. Um but I do. lots of other stuff. I appreciate that I.

communicate that other stuff online via. my social media. I just think that. influencer is for one thing it's an ugly. word because it implies that you are. um utilizing influence over someone. whereas actually I just share the stuff. I like. Even if it's an ad, even if it's. if it's um I'm working with a brand, I'm. not going to work with a brand that I. don't want to talk about. Right? So it's. I'm talking about things that I'm. actually enjoying or passionate about or. whatever it may be. And I don't see that. as exerting influence. I see that as.

sharing. joy or even if it's just sharing good. tips or whatever it may be. I see that. as a as a very different thing. And I I. also have a thing and I've mentioned. this a few times as there was a void in. um social media where myself and my. contemporaries who all started around. the same time did it for fun, did it for. love, did it for adventure. We had no. idea it was going to go anywhere. And. when it started to, we were like, "Oh my. god." And genuinely I look back at it. and I was such nostalgia. I don't miss. it, but I love that I was part of it,

you know, cuz it was such a cool journey. to. moment in history as well. Yeah, it totally absolutely was, you. know, and we sold out these venues and. we were, you know, we had screaming. fans. It felt like being in a small. version of One Direction, you know. Um, it was wild and just so much fun. Did you miss that? No, I loved it at the time when I was in. my early 20ies. every young person and I. saw some of those clips of your meetups. in like parks and stuff and I've never. seen a line that long in my lifetime. Yeah, it was wild. But like like [laughter] a thousand.

meters, I don't even know how many. meters that is of people four like four. deep in like this massive line just. screaming and crying at times. It's really hard to put it into words. I. tried explaining it to Sarah when we. first met because obvious. Yeah, it's really hard and we if I get. stopped in the street now by someone. she's like what? Yeah. But she's also like, "Oh, men. didn't scream or cry." Yeah, we don't. get it. They used to be. Um, but my what my point was is that like. everyone thinks, especially young. people, especially young men, well, all. young people would love to be that guy. And you're telling me you don't miss it.

No, I loved it at the time. Don't get me. wrong, it was great. But the novelty. soon wears off because it got to the. point where you couldn't I couldn't take. public transport. Like I couldn't walk. to the shops. um you know and it sounds. like I'm really exaggerating but. actually at the time it really was that. just I would even now if I'm walking. along the street and I see a group of. teenagers I'm like oh [ __ ]. here we go. it's not teenagers anymore they're all. in their 20ies but I'm so conditioned to. being aware of teenagers now that I'm. like oh my god oh my god they're going. to come for me and they're going to like.

scream and cry and it's I don't. how is this played with your anxiety. though. that's not that's not what sets me off. so that's fine um I've always got time. for it if people stop and want to have a. conversation As long as I physically. have time for it, I'm not rushing. I'll. always stop and have a chat. You know, I've got I'm I'm really gracious in that. I appreciate that without those people, I wouldn't be in the position I'm in. I. don't feel like I owe them anything. because at the same time, I provided the. content they wanted to watch. But it's. definitely like almost like a. transaction, right? I wouldn't be there.

without them. They wouldn't A lot of. them have said like when I had announced. that I was pregnant, Sarah was pregnant, a lot of them sort of said, "Oh my god, I can't believe it. You you like bought. me up." because a lot of these teenagers. watched my content and and my. contemporaries content. Um. like Shay Carl as well, don't they? Right. Totally. Because because they. they they loved like watching us and and. we were. role models for them I suppose you know. and that was a really wonderful thing to. be part of. And dare I say you were idyllic in a way. that it often with with the sh the.

shaytards and shall his family. I didn't have a perfect family like. that. So there was it g it you felt like. you were part of that you know. Yeah, I. think that and also the friendships with. um with the others it was very identical. but it genuinely was that was our life. at the time. It was just pure fun and. like there was no stress. We were young. so we had no like um no. responsibilities, no mortgages, no no. like other things to worry about other. than just like going out there and. having a blast and we just got to. document that and share it.

You don't miss it? No, I say I'm nostalgic. I'm really. happy I had was part of it. But I don't. miss it because I'm 33. I don't want. 14-year-old girls pawning over me, you. know what I mean? Or or just kind of. like desperately trying. I remember one. time being on the tube and this young. girl just burst into tears and her dad. looked at me and thought I was like, [laughter] you know, would you blame. him, you know? So I was like, I'm all. right. I'm on the internet, which didn't. help because just being [laughter] on. the internet. He's like, doing what? Um, so yeah, I don't I don't miss it. Uh, because it's actually really invasive.

and like I say, I don't care about the. notoriety. It was really lovely to be. that person for some people um and to. have even then although there was big. numbers it was still fairly underground. and it hadn't really reached mainstream. it was just online right so although it. was lots of people it was of certain. sort of sector of society it wasn't. like older men it wasn't you know it was. just teenagers basically um and it was. yeah say it was a real blast but I don't. miss I feel like actually I grew out of.

it fairly rapidly. The thing about it being teenagers is. that no one can obsess like teenagers. So. they would be desperate for the photo, the selfie, the um they scream and cry. and go ballistic and actually I'm I'm. really anticlimactic. [laughter]. I'm just I'm some dude. I'm really I'll. often just go I'm really sorry that it's. me. Yeah. Um so yeah, I'm very like I said, I'm. very grateful for it. Um I love that. I've got those memories and I love that. I've made those friends. Um, but yeah, I.

don't miss it. Who's Jim now then? If that's if that's. old Jim and that's your say your first. chapter, what is the what is your second. chapter? I feel like I've had so many chapters. actually. I feel like I've I've evolved. The beauty of my job, right, is I'm. allowed to do that. I'm allowed to. evolve. When it's forced, it can be. really ugly and I think that's how a lot. of people lose their following. Um, partly it's it's entropy. You know, people grow up and they move on. They do. other things, but. algorithms, algorithms, all that. I think mostly. it's just people force it to try to get.

traffic and views and actually my life. has just as it's changed I've grown up. with it and I've been I've accepted that. change like for example I'm really I'm. really hoping I turn into a silver fox. I'm I'm looking forward to aging. gracefully. You know what I mean? Um and. I think that that's kind of my my my. role on social media. I'm not pretending. to talk to young people anymore. I'm not. pretending to be the cool guy and like, you know, I'm I'm I appreciate that I'm. I'm getting older. My life's changed. My. interests have changed. My career has.

changed. And I share that with people as. opposed to desperately trying to still. impress. a young an audience that aren't right. for me. I I speak to a lot of YouTubers. and we used to sign a couple and there. was this really interesting moment where. that first wave of YouTuber. because of algorithm changes. I think. predominantly algorithm changes. What. they were doing then just stopped. working. The views went down and I swear. to God I witnessed a form of depression. and existential crisis from these. YouTubers who suddenly were like what.

the [ __ ] has happened? What do I do with. my life now? because their whole. identity from whether it was like 16. years old to 22 was doing this one. thing. They never really understood. work, right? And it's funny because I've never really. talked about this before, but one of the. YouTubers we signed, you'll know his. name, maybe 18 at the time. And we. remember calling him and offering him 20. grand just to show up to a place. And. he's like, "Nah.". Right? I'm like, "Just show up to the He's. like, "Nah, just can't be bothered.". Like, and he had developed that sense of. like complacency about his career and.

how you make money and how easy it is. And then when [ __ ] changes, I'm saying. he can't make any money anymore. And and. he's spiraled down because I think life. taught him that money and life was super. easy. The algorithm changes and now he's. like [ __ ] And he has to go work at. Tesco. That's something that I really can't. tolerate in this industry is when people. have that attitude like I'm where I am. um because I'm good to work with. as. much as the numbers and as much as. everything else, I've stayed the test of. time because I am honest and decent with.

my audience and I respect my audience. and I don't take the piss and don't take. it for granted. But also, if I am. offered a job, I turn up on time. I say. my pleases and thank yous. Um, I get a. lot of repeat work because I'm good to. work with and I pride myself on that. And I have no I have so little tolerance. for ego. Like all of us, if we're on set. shooting a thing, whether it's you, whether you're the runner or the. director or you're me doing the bit to. camera or you're the guy going to get. coffee, we're all just want to do our. job and enjoy what we're doing and then. go home at the end of the day and say,

"Oh, that was nice." You know, we don't. there's no space for any of that. And I. think that we it's particularly bad in. this industry, right? more so than the. other because when it comes to musicians. or actors or whatever they are there's. so many people around them right who are. um looking after them and who are saying. no and who are advising them and also. they're not their own content Brad Pitt. doesn't play Brad Pitt he plays someone. else right someone like me my job is to.

edit myself take my own photo make my. own caption reply to my own comments and. it's all like Jim Jim Jim Jim Jim it's. very easy to then think you're the. center of the universe, but actually for. every person who's commenting going Jim. Jim Jim Jim gym, they're also commenting. on everybody else's content because they. just consume the content. I might be. their favorite, I might not. It doesn't. matter. I'm not um my I am not my job. And I think that's really important for. a lot of influencers to work out like. they believe themselves to be.

important. And actually, I say this. quite a lot. If I were to die tomorrow, there'd be my friends and family would. be gutted obviously and they'd be really. really sad. And there'd be a few people. of my audience who are like who um have. a real connection with me, but for the. most part, people would go, "Oh, that's. a shame. I liked him." And they'd move. on. They'd find someone else. I'm not. that important to them that they can't. continue without me. So funny because that's it sounds really. depressive to some degree to say, "I. don't matter, whatever." But I actually. think it's the opposite. It's really. freeing. Yeah. It's the most liberating thing. ever. I remember I remember having the. same sort of existential conversation.

with myself and it really happened when. I learned about the universe and space. and I got really into the cosmos and I. was like wait a minute I'm [ __ ] not. important at all. Totally. when you when it like there's a. scene in Cosmos where it zooms out from. and it just keeps going and you're like. wait stop and it's like nope that's just. the moon and then it goes out and it's. like that's just the galaxy and then the. galaxy becomes a piece of sand and. you're like what the. but the the freeing part is that means. that all this [ __ ] doesn't matter. and that's liberation like ego can be. and this is the the powerful thing about.

psychedelics from the last person that's. sat there who's the biggest psychedelics. investor in the world. is it dissolves your ego and says to you. nothing you don't [ __ ] matter. and yeah So, I just thought that was. fascinating. It's really something that's really. important to to learn. I I think. probably one of my biggest uh learnings. from my career cuz I went through it, you know, at the beginning when everyone. was like obsessing over the the. YouTubers, I was like, "Wow, I'm like a. really big deal.". Um I think it's really important to know. your worth and to know your value and to. um appreciate your position. I know that.

I am worth a certain amount of money if. I work with a brand or I know that I'm. worth a certain amount of time if I'm. doing a thing. But I also know that I. don't matter in the grand scheme of. things and that this is a phase. I might. I might [ __ ] this up tomorrow. Do you. know what I mean? It might last for. another 10 years. It might last for. another 30 years and I might never want. to quit. Equally, I might get bored of. it and go, you know what? I feel like. it's too invasive now. Whatever. It. doesn't matter. It's my decision and I. don't owe anybody else. But equally,

they don't owe me. They don't have to. watch me if they don't choose to. And I. think that's really important. And a lot. of people, especially when they're young. and they're developing their sense of. identity, as a lot of influencers are, and suddenly are put in the position. where they are reaching lots and lots of. people, um it's very very easy to think. of yourself as the center of the galaxy. and we're not. And actually what really. matters, what truly matters is the. people that matter to you, you know. And. as much as I appreciate my audience, I.

don't know them, you know. I wouldn't. know. I mean, statistically, there'll be. a certain number of them that die every. year just because of whatever, right? I've got no idea it's happening. You're not sending cards. You know what I mean? Like, I've got no. idea what's happening. So, it just so. happens that I'm on the other side of. the camera and these people connect to. me uh and I connect to them, but it. doesn't go any further than that. You. know, something really almost some something. your perspective is fascinating because. on one end you're very you're very. freed, right? Right. On the other end, you you talk. about your anxiety of of of worry. And.

I'm I'm trying to weigh those two things. up. This idea that you're like, do you. know what? I don't have a plan. I've. heard you say that. I don't have a, you. know, 10 year plan. The future is the. future, whatever. But then maybe when we. zoom in and we look at the micro scale, which is like right now, today, it seems to be very. Yeah, you're not you're not wrong. I. think on the on the the wider scale um I. um it's very freeing to to know this on. the more individual scale like when you. when you zoom right in it's the stress. of survival I suppose of like um being.

enough to maintain. you know what that bit comes down to. money I think which is unfortunate. because like money is not my main. motivator but I realize it's necessary. Where did you learn that? I feel like is. there anything in your past where money. or the lack thereof beca, you know, became um. compromised your safety? No, I don't think it compromised my. safety. Like I say, we didn't have any. Um and I appreciate that life is um it's.

like I said earlier, there's a point. where you have enough and that after. that point it doesn't matter anymore. You know, you can go from having a. little bit of surplus so that you can. enjoy holidays, etc., you know, buy. yourself some luxury things, whatever. you want. After that point, it's all. numbers. It doesn't really make any. difference. But when you go the other. side of the scale and you haven't got. enough, it's a major stress, you know, because what blows my mind about it is. it's all fake. [laughter] Like it. doesn't it's just it's literally me. going, "Here, here's a piece of paper. for loads of your stuff." And you go, "Okay, cool. I put value in that piece.

of paper." It's bollocks. But it's. unfortunately the way our world works. And that stresses me out just in terms. of providing. Like I couldn't go back. I. mean I could. I'd have to, but I would. really struggle if I had to go back to a. conventional job. Just doesn't suit me. Like I was bloody miserable. My mom. thought I was going to kill myself when. I was working those jobs, you know? I I. was very very sad. Um I I think it's a.

it's a need for me to create. And I I. know that sounds really ridiculous and. really wank, but like I I can't turn up. to a job that is the same thing every. day. It it it it for me feels like a. prison. Um and I actually I I think the. people that can do that are like special. because how wonderful to know that you. are um you can switch on, do your job. um you can know that you are earning. your money, you're looking after your. people, you know, you raise your kids,

whatever, whatever it is, whatever your. life is, and also provide to society and. give back your taxes and all that stuff. and just be, you know, a good egg and. then go home and switch off again. I. just think that's the most wonderful. sensation. Something I've never. experienced and probably never will. because my mind doesn't work that way. So for me, my the anxiety comes from the. fear of going back to that or not being. able to provide. And the only way I know. how to provide is in a very risky. industry where I have to constantly.

churn out content. I have to constantly. create whatever I'm creating in order to. earn the money. Um, and that's that's a. scary thought. Um, but I also appreciate that it's it's. the anxiety comes in the job of it. I. think the freedom comes in the um sort. of the more I guess meta of it. You. know, like I don't matter. it does. whatever that the the Jim Chapman's not. really of any relevance. Um, but for my. life, it's really important that I put.

food on the table for for Sarah and my. child. And that's funny because, you know, we. we always live in now, right? It's only. ever going to be now. And uh what you're saying is in the now. there is urgency, there is stress. Yeah. It's so we never we're never going to. live in the future. It's never going to. be meta. That's not the experience we're. ever going to have. Maybe if we meditate. we can spend some time there, but. dayto-day we live in the we live in the. present moment. Um it's it's yeah it's. really really interesting to me and as. you say you're in an industry where a. lot of people aren't making a lot of.

money right the creative industry so. it's particularly challenging um. yeah very much so and I think people are. following their passion I think the. thing with influencing in particular is. that the passion is so easily monetized. but it's also so easily taken away and. it's so competitive that it often I. think Some people are just passionate. about the business of it. Um, now I. don't pretend to have a business mind at. all. I haven't got a bloody clue. Like. I've got a production company that I've.

just started with with one of my pals. and he is in charge of the business. When it comes to my my social media. stuff, my management are in charge of. the business. I just make the stuff I. want to make, the stuff that I think. will be good. Um, and I fully believe in. letting people do play to their. strengths. My strength is not that. So, but I often get called like an. entrepreneur or something. I'm like, yeah, all right. I just I just been it's. it's been luck and timing and really. bloody hard work. Um and the hard work I. can I I'm in control of the luck and the.

timing I'm not. Um and the other people. around me are in charge of sort of I. guess bringing looking after like the. financial side of it, you know, it's the. admin stuff that. I don't. you hate. I [laughter] hate the fiery passion. Yeah. Hate it. You said just a couple of. moments ago. the the proponents that have made you. successful. You said like you know luck, hard work, etc., etc., do you think you could have achieved. what you've achieved over the last 10.

years without hard work? No, absolutely not. How do you square that with the culture. we live in today that is almost viewing. hard work as a bit of a toxic thing? I've almost got to the point I'll never. get there because I don't care that. much. But I've almost got to the point. and just to say again, I will never get. there, right? Because I'm not going to. lie to people. where I sometimes feel bad being honest. that I wouldn't be here without hard. work. I'm not telling you to burn out, right? But I don't know how if I hadn't.

have sacrificed in the way that I did, I. would of course that's my experience. I've not lived another life, right? I can only tell you what I've done. Yeah. I think it's really important. It's like work hard, play hard, right? It's really important. I I I posted this. on on my Instagram stories the other. day. It's everybody there's there's like. You're right. There is a lot of people. who are sort of um uh poo pooing working. hard. Don't work too hard. And there's. also people who like on my Instagram it. comes up all the time. Hey, I run three. businesses and I do this and I'm only 12. years old and like. Yeah, but that guy's trying to sell you.

a course. For sure. That is his business. Yes, for sure. That's what I mean. There's there's there's there's. definitely something to be said and this. is where I like again this is where I. struggle. when you work work hard like I and and. work with passion like you know again. Sarah's dad says says um work is a dirty. four-letter word right you if you find. the other saying if you find something. you love doing you'll never work a day. in your life so work really hard and. work with passion but also stop when you. need to stop take your time off enjoy.

your evenings or you know again I've got. a job which allows me to work as much or. as little as I please. I wish I did like. a 4 day week. I would very much like to. do that so I have a three-day weekend or. I take a day off in the middle of the. week. I've got the means to do so, just. haven't got the brain to do so. You. know, um, and I think that. that's a really important distinction. You work all your bloody life and. suddenly you're 60 and you've gone, "Oh. my god, I haven't like actually enjoyed. my experiences. Um, I haven't actually,

you know, I've got to do some really. bloody incredible experiences. And. sometimes I'm too busy stressing about. what's next in my diary or finishing a. thing, meeting a deadline, or even. stressing about the key messages I've. got to get across when I'm on that. adventure that I forget to enjoy the. adventure. And it's the biggest sort of. um waste of time that my job has within. it. You know, like I remember being in a. on a helicopter and this wasn't me. actually. This was somebody else who who. I recognized in. I was taken away um to.

New York. I was going on a helicopter. around Manhattan and it was like, you. know, what a cool experience. People. don't get to do that very often. Um and. this guy was sat next to me in the. middle and he couldn't take his picture. because he had to lean over me. And I. said, "Oh, I'll swap seats with you.". The pilot came over the um you know, the. whatever it said and said, "Um, oh, don't swap seats cuz you'll unbalance. the helicopter." The guy was so pissed. off. He said, "No, I want to swap." I'm. like, "Well, no, cuz you'll kill us. now." So, it's a bit different. I. offered you my seat when I didn't think. we were going to die for doing it. And.

he sold so much because he couldn't get. the photo he wanted. And I'm like, that. for me really, really kind of is the. epitome of not enjoying the moment. Like, just enjoy the bloody helicopter. ride around Manhattan, you idiot. Um, but that's probably a byproduct of. social media or something because. yeah, you know, the part of the value of that. was for him clearly was being able to. tell the world he did it versus being in. the moment. And. for sure, for sure. And that and. unfortunately that is the job. We have. to tell the world we've done something. otherwise you know it hasn't happened. right and then there's no point taking.

you me on that really cool experience. because I haven't told anyone about it. you know so that there there's. definitely a a dichotomy there in that. you need to prove that you've done it. and you need to show your enjoyment um. but you need to also not let that take. you out of the moment and that's a fine. line. One of the things I've been. thinking a lot about lately, which links. to that completely, is because I sit. here with people all the time and I and. one of the things I keep noticing is. that in order for them to actually be. happy, they have to try and be a. contradiction or two completely.

different people in separate areas of. their life. A lot of the lack of success. they have either in their work or. relationships or whatever or in their. personal lives comes from not being able. to switch off from being like being. super successful entrepreneur and then. when they get home being loving, patient, you know, and then in the the example. we've just been talking about there, I. would assume happiness would come from. being able to do your job and take the. photo, but then have experiences where. you just don't give a [ __ ] if the world. is watching. That's entirely it. Like.

how do you And that's not easy. No, it's. not easy. I. um. And dare I say, the thing that put you. on the helicopter might have been the. inability to switch off in some degree. because hard work. Hard work. I haven't I haven't got to where I am by. switching off whenever I choose to. You. know what I mean? I've got here because. I work harder than I should. Um and that's that's a massive sacrifice. because I've missed out on moments. I've. missed out on um you know like there are.

times where I should just be more. present with Sarah but I'm too busy. working you know I miss out on things. but I get to go on the helicopter but. you know more than that I get to live a. really cool existence like I love my job. so it's it's really difficult but my the. way I kind of cross that tea dot that I. suppose is that I will very often much. rather pay for a holiday and have a. actual holiday.

[ __ ]. if I want to. say oh Dubai and they'll go all right. when do you want to go right but I tend. not to because. listen if if there's often times a thing. will come to me and it's it's a place. I've never been or experience I've never. had and I'll jump on it but I will tend. not to request a free trip because. honestly it my time is more valuable. than the money I can potentially earn. So I would rather pay my money to go.

somewhere and switch off and read a. book, do the crossword puzzle, hang out, you know, because I value that much more. than the money. I think that that's the. thing. I think some people put their. value in money in my view too high. Um, and I I don't value it like that. I. think my what's what's most important, what I value more is people and time. Okay, quick one, quick story from one of. my podcast sponsors, Fiverr. Fiverr.com,

as a lot of you will know if you've. listened to this podcast before. Um, one. of the challenges we've had with this. podcast over the last, I'd say, couple. of months since we've really cranked up. the production, is we usually promote. the podcast just on Mondays. So, you've. probably seen on my channels, Monday. morning about 9:00 a.m. I put the. podcast out there. And one of the things. we've wanted to do is to keep that sort. of momentum and hype moving throughout. the week from Monday till Sunday when. the next podcast comes out. But we've. had a bit of a resource capacity because. Jack who produces all of this and edits. all of this only has so much time and.

these podcasts are coming in thick and. far. So we turned to Fiverr to help us. extend our capacity and we hired a video. editor on Fiverr who's now producing all. of our video clips for this podcast. So. now in a very very very cost-effective. way, we've been able to promote the. podcast every single day from Monday. till Sunday. That is what Fiverr is all. about. Extending your team, giving you. capabilities you might not have had and. doing it in a very cost-effective way. One of the other really interesting. things you said as we were talking, maybe before we started filming, was you.

were talking about the things that. you're good at writing about with your. screenplays, and one of the things you. said was love. Yeah. And I thought to myself, I wonder why. he's good at writing about love. Um, I. don't know actually. I I I know my my. strengths when it comes to writing. And. it's one of those things where to begin. with, we've all got imposter syndrome, right? Constantly. I've still got it 10. years on. But I know I'm good at that. Um, I know I can send a script. somewhere. They might not like it. It. might not be the thing for them. And. then I get told no quite a lot, but. invariably they say, you know what, great script. You've done a really good. job there. Um, so I am confident in my.

ability there. And I know my strengths. are dialogue. Um cuz I write how people. talk but also get the point across. Like. I can't I'm the worst person to watch a. film with cuz if I'm watching something. I'm like people don't talk like that. [laughter] What is going you know um but. also love. I I just think I've got I I. don't know. I think I'm a bit of an old. romantic and it comes down I I think it. really for me comes down to how you feel. love. You know if you can feel love and. you can put pen to paper you can write. love. Um, and I I I.

pride myself on trusting and loving like. to I'm not a jealous person. I'm not um. I'm never going to micromanage a. relationship or anything like that. If I. love someone, I trust them implicitly. They can do as they wish. They can go. out with the boys, whatever. I'm never. going to go, "Oh, who did you meet and. what happened?" I'm never going to like. check their phone, you know? I'm never going to do any of. that because. if I love someone, I'm all in. Um, and.

that for me is really important. If you. get your fingers burnt, then all right, then you then that's they get one. chance, you know. Um, and that's that's. my life. You had a very public relationship, one that was shared on YouTube for many. many years. You ended up marrying said. person and um and then that relationship. ended. Um, difficult I imagine to to. have that experience in public, right? Next to impossible. Yeah. Like it's uh, you know, we were together for 12 years. and most of that time was wonderful. You. know, it was really great. Like I say, we conquered the world together. We were.

we were both part of that first breed of. influencers, social media people, and we. had a wicked time. And then we grew up. together. It was as simple as growing up. in slightly different directions, you. know. Um, and at some point, you know, the are you going to do the further you. go on like that, the wider the gap gets. I literally just did this for the first. time last week on this podcast. I was. like, I'm almost starting to see. relationships like two parallel lines. And and if you imagine the parallel. lines have just a 1% angle either way. Sure. Right. They're either going to stay.

parallel. They're either going to go. away from each other or closer together. over time. Totally. I look back at it now and I. realize that actually it probably it was. a small a small incline or decline, whichever way you want to put it, but it. some point becomes insurmountable, becomes a chasm you can't leap anymore, right? So I look back at it and realize. that perhaps it was uh it started much. earlier than either of us anticipated, even either of us realized. and we just. kind of kept getting more and more. distant until eventually we were just. roommates basically. Um, was it hard to break it off when you get. to that point because you've got the.

world watching? Yeah, it wasn't hard as a couple cuz we. were both we both knew we deserved. better, right? We both knew we're like. this isn't working and we took a it took. a [clears throat] long time to have the. conversation because I think we both. tried for a while. We're like it'll come. back around. It'll come back around but. we're not stupid. We both knew we. deserve better. So the when we actually. had the conversation, it was for both of. us quite freeing, emotional because of. all the time we had together, but quite. freeing. Of course, you've then got the. audience to think of who make [snorts].

assumptions, right? And oh, I've lost. count the amount of times I've been. called a cheater. Um, just and poor old. Sarah gets called my mistress. constantly. I didn't even know Sarah existed. Like, she was not a person to me until well. after we broke up, you know? Like I met. her on an app and like I'm really I'm. really tempted at some point sometimes. to get the app, right? I haven't got it. anymore, but I want to redownload it and. find our conversation. Go, look, we. started talking on this date [laughter]. um just to just to prove the point. because it's not Sarah didn't sign up.

for this [ __ ] You know, she fell in. love with me. Um and it just so happens. that I come with a bit of an audience. who have opinions on things. And you. know, we all gossip, right? You we've. all got opinions on things. I watch. people go through break up breakups on. TV or I watch like the drama with say. Megan and Harry or whatever and I and I. have my thoughts and my feelings on it. Um but of course I'm not going to DM. them [laughter]. about it, you know. Um and I think that. is the issue that on the internet.

there's sort of anonym an anonymity and. people can. say things there's no repercussions. I. lost my [ __ ] the other day on on social. media because and I never address it. I'm very much of the like I said earlier. I I'm inconsequential on the grand. scheme of things. So I can take hate. I've got a thick skin. It doesn't it. bounces straight off. I don't care. Like. this is my job. It's not a personal. reflection on me. So whatever. But. somebody had DM'd Sarah a bunch of. pictures of my old relationship, my. previous life. And said, "You'll never.

match up to her." And then had sent. another one saying, "And your child. deserved to be miscarried." And I lost. my [ __ ] And I'd never I've never. behaved this way online. But I went. straight to my Instagram stories and I. told the person I said [ __ ] you to the. person. Um and also I was very mad and. perhaps I should have let caller heads. prevail but actually the amount of um. support I had off the back of it. People. saying you know what bloody too right. Stand up for you stand up for Sarah. Stand up for yourself. Stand up for your. child. Um and we had two years of it.

right cuz me and Tanya broke up just. over two years ago. Me and Sarah got. together. I don't know like as far as the world is. concerned a few months later but. obviously that [clears throat] wasn't it. because the world only found out me and. Tanya broke up when we decided to tell. them and we only decided to tell them. when we did because the press found out. So actually it was much earlier than. anyone realizes. cuz we were trying to get our heads. around it and work out how to do it with. minimal. um sort of like minimal backlash,

minimal. negative energy, right? because we. didn't have any towards each other at. all. Um, but when it comes to. when it comes to me being called a. cheater or whatever, whatever, it's. fine. It bounces back off. I hold my. head high. Everybody who I know and care. about and respect and love knows what. really happened. And that's what really. matters to me. I don't care. But when it. comes to somebody. calling my pregnant fiance the names. they called her and saying that my baby.

should be miscarried, that's where I. draw the line. the person that sent that message. Mhm. You know that they. they probably wanted that reaction. Yeah, I do. Um I one of the best pieces. of advice I was ever given was don't. play around in the mud with the pigs cuz. you both get dirty but the pigs will. love it. Right. So I live by a motto of. never explain, never complain. I don't I. own my decisions. Like I own my life.

I'm an adult. I don't have to explain. myself to anyone should I not wish to. Right? Simple. Um I am confident in my. ability and my decisions that I'm like. this is the path I'm choosing and you. can like it or lump it basically. Um but. I felt like making an example. I didn't. out anyone. I didn't say any names. didn't, you know, share any um. usernames, but I felt like making an. example of that person, especially with.

it being so out of character for me to. do so would have had overall a positive. consequence for the people who were. thinking it but weren't writing it or. the people that were thinking of writing. it. And actually, do you know what. Sarah's getting much less of it now, I'm. getting much less of it now. Um, so I. think in a way it was almost like. costbenefit analysis in a way. You know, I I I weigh these things up and I think. there's always going to and I've been. thinking a lot lately because of um. there was a couple of my friend is the. global head of social media at. Manchester United and there's a lot of. black players and so when the team loses. what you see on the black players.

Instagrams there's lots of monkey emojis. and um it's actually awfully my friend. called me and he said what do we do. about this right and he said we're going. to take this dance um as a club and you. know they we talked a little bit about. it on like our WhatsApp group or. whatever and the club stood up changed. the cover photos and said like. Manchester United against racism, the. players's got more racism because. shining a light on it. It's like it's almost like it's not a. real thing. How do I explain this? It's. it could be some 14-year-old kid who.

who's leaving these monkey emojis who is. actually quite an okay person, but they. just have this thing in them where they. want a bit of attention. They see you or. Marcus Rashford as not really a real. human, right, and an idol. And so they. think just leave. They're not like an. inherently bad person, but when you get. anonymity and you get and and we all. have this, you know, envy in us that. comes from somewhere, you know, the. lifeboat analogy, right? And so like I I'm what I'm I don't know. what I'm basically saying is like I. don't think we're ever going to be able.

to cure that problem. with the only way I've actually seen is. I think you'd kill 99% of it if social. networks went anonymous and you had to. upload your passport. because I think if if you connect real. world consequences to behavior. I fully agree. It's why you don't get your dick out in. public. It's well not well that's not. why but it's like it's why you don't go. up to someone and say those things in. public because there's real world. consequences. I totally agree. I think I think people. should have there should be some sort of. like identification process when you set. up an account and totally agree with it. because the amount I get, the amount.

Sarah gets um is it's a it's a real. bloody shame as well because especially. because these people are like. supposed to be and I use this in. inverted commas fans. They're supposed. to care about my life, my existence. They're supposed to, you know, they. followed me for a reason. Yeah. Um and I refuse to believe, especially. because I'm I like to think I'm a force. for positivity. I tend I talk real talk. and I share real things. But even when. I'm talking about mental health or a. bigger issue, I do so from a stance of. positivity, right? At least I try to.

So I refuse to believe that somebody is. that negative or hates me that much. But in six mill you got I know six how. many followers you got? Uh on across everything I think I've got. two on YouTube, two on Insta, just over two on Twitter. I don't know. about Facebook, you know, let's say six, seven, eight, whatever. But then you're reaching more people. You know, the people that follow you. aren't the ones that you're reached. Yeah, of course. If you took that many people and thought. probabilistically, how many of them would just not be like.

okay people, but have the capability of. sending a awful message. There's going. to be [ __ ] thousands. Yeah, you also. guarantee that when I do, like for. example, when I announced that Sarah and. I were pregnant, um I went on to Twitter. and I was I was trending and like I. haven't trended for years. I was like, "Oh, this is fun. I haven't tried for so. [laughter] long." So, I was going. through it and 99% of it was really. positive, but there was a lot of it that. was just like um you know, a little bit. of hate and I had a really good time. responding to some of it. Not like I.

wasn't saying anything. Like, for. example, someone was like, "Jim Chapman. still exists and he's not with Tanya and. he's having a baby. Who knew?" Um, and I. just retweeted it and responded going I. know, right? [laughter]. Well, turn up for the books. I am I'm. still alive. Who are you? Um, so nothing. like I didn't respond to real. negativity, just people going, "Wow, that's like that's a funny old story. Oh, it's not Tanya." Um, and like I. really enjoyed like I I I actually found. that good fun because by drawing. attention to it, these people were then.

like, "Oh my god, I love you. You're the. best." because obviously I've let them. know that I've seen it and that I'm not. tolerating [ __ ] but also I don't. care enough that I'm going to write. something really negative back. I'm just. like, "Yeah, I see that. I acknowledge. it. I am here. I'm also a human." And. it's yeah, it's a really interesting. sort of phenomenon that people. can write what they want without any. sort of consequences. But when you give. them consequences, they'll suddenly be. like, "Oh, wow. You've noticed me.". Should I tell a really funny funny thing. that happened this week, this weekend?

It's yesterday. Um, there's a story that. came out in the press, something that I. had done. This kid had like DM'd me. He. had made me a Wikipedia page and was. like, "I thought you deserve one." So, I. made one and I offered him a job in 10. minutes. I said, "You, what a great show. of initiative. You've shown your writing. skills. Like, come work with us." It was. in the papers. There's this like. Facebook page where one of the articles. in the papers was posted. There's 60. comments. 59 of them are like amazing, right? And then there's this one comment. which is like really [ __ ] It's like. [clears throat] Steve Bartlett is like. an evil guy. He they said that I made a.

PR story out of the Manchester bombings. because we raised a huge amount of we. let our team had the day off and we and. we raised this huge amount of money for. the families of the victims and and so. he wrote all this awful stuff about me. and I screenshotted it and I I messaged. the guy and I said, "Could you like I. sent him the screenshot. I went, could. you explain this?" I I've never seen. someone. just completely change. And I said, and. one of the things I said to him was, "Would you would you be okay with me. sharing this on my channels?". Guess what he said? Well, obviously not.

Absolutely not. And I was never going to. share my channels, but I I Why wouldn't. Why can't I share in public? Well, because he's written on a public. forum, right? He's written on a public forum. Why. can't I share it on my channel? Why. wouldn't you like 3 million people. seeing that? Right. And and he was like he literally I went, "Do I have your permission to share. this?" And he went, "Absolutely not.". to respond to it. Absolutely not. [laughter]. Facebook group, didn't expect me to see. it, you know, and this is I'm trying to. over the last couple of I guess months.

trying to understand how to deal with. this social mediacentric often group. think driven cuz I'm sure all the. cheating stuff was one. oh yeah, it was a group of people. and then they're like, "Yeah, it must. be.". Yeah. I would say Tanya's never said. anything. Um, she's never come out and. called me a cheater. Um, she hasn't done. the opposite. Um, like I have, if I'm. being totally frank about it, like, you. know, I've sort of said there was. nothing. [laughter]. You've [snorts] addressed it. I've addressed it. I'm trying I'm trying. to I moved on first.

Sure. As far as the world is concerned, you. know what I mean? Like. it's really hard to say this without. sort of making. accusations or whatever, but as far as. the world knows, I moved on first. It's. not necessarily. I should stop there, but it's it's. tricky to be accused of something when. they've only got limited information to. to use, right? So.

because people see that I moved on. first, they think that perhaps I. cheated. So for me saying I didn't cheat. and for Sarah saying I didn't cheat with. Jim, um it doesn't necessarily prove. anything, right? Because of course we're. going to say that because we want to. deny our infidelity, right? Um, and it's tricky to keep going back to it. and keep saying the same thing, especially when it's so.

unfounded. Um, but there's a point where. you just have to let it go. Like you. can't you can't change everyone's. opinion about, like I said, like there's. there's. there's like a. a load of people watching you, they all. have opinions on you, good or bad. And. the perks of this job is that we get. paid well for it and that we get to live. a bloody adventure. Like it's so cool. I. never expected this in my life. I never. expected to be able to do the stuff I. get to do and live the life I get to. live. It was never planned out for me. I. never had like um the tools in place for.

it. I found myself here and I've grabbed. on with both hands and I've worked. really hard to to maintain it. So that's. the perk of being in a position I'm in. Unfortunately, it comes with a few. drawbacks, which is that people make. opinions on you and you just have to not. care so much. Not easy though. It's not easy at all. Especially when they message your. fiance. It's not easy at all, especially also. when it's so. [sighs and gasps]. untrue. Um.

and yeah, and and also there's no way to. rectify it. There's no way there's [clears throat]. no way I can rectify it or Sarah. basically. Yeah. Um. that's difficult. That's really. difficult. It is really difficult. Yeah. Yeah. And. and you must have this you must see. these falsehoods in the comment. sections. You must instinctively be like. that's not true and that's harmful to my. relationships or whatever. I need to fix. that. And I still really value Tanya. We're. still we're still mates. So I'm not, you know, I'm never going to I'm not.

going to uh make a big thing. I try to. just when it comes up in conversation, I'll just say, "Yeah, it's this. We grew. apart." Right? because I I respect her. and I value her and I. I'm I don't want to keep bringing it up. all the time because also it doesn't. define either of us. People break up all the time. Unfortunately, they don't always break. up in public, but it doesn't define us. We both still have our careers. We both. still have our lives. We both still have. our people. Um and that's very important. It's just.

a shame that it comes up so frequently. and it's so um untrue. I had a sex therapist, a relationship. therapist on this podcast um two weeks. ago and she said a really lovely. sentence which I haven't been able to. forget and she said, "Just because a. relationship ends doesn't mean it wasn't. successful." I still look at us as very. successful. Yeah. Like I said, we ticked. all our boxes. The next thing for us was. what I'm now doing with Sarah. And um I. I see now that Tanya would not have been.

the person to do that with. You know, Sarah 100% is. And there are things that. I have with her that I've never. experienced before. Um, and I'm very. lucky. Like I said earlier, I feel like. when when when Tanya and I started going. separate directions, separate ways, um, it was earlier than I think either of us. kind of gave credence to. Um, and so if. we had have done, if you know, if I had. have done the things I'm now doing with. Sarah with you, I I don't think I it. would have been for the best, you know,

whereas now I'm I know that Sarah's my. person. I've I've learned a lot. I know. what I'm worth. I know what I can expect. from a partner. Um, and it's it's really. I've never experienced it this way. It's. really lovely. It's really fruitful. It's really rewarding. It's really. dynamic. and it's really reciprocal. Did you have a list of um attribute? I. was talking to a couple of friends the. other day um mixed gender group and one. of them posed the question like what's.

on your list for an ideal partner? Um so. you're with a partner. So I'm saying I. guess my question to you is what does. what did you look for? But and also I. want you to answer the second question. which is what does a partner need to. offer Jim in order to be a good partner? Uh okay. Well, partly to offer me, I. think um. I I need to like I said earlier, if I if. I love someone, I trust them 100%. Right? I expect the same in return. I. can't I can't deal with jealousy. I.

can't deal with someone checking up on. me. If I'm out or if I'm doing. something, I I'm not going to humor it. because it's not me and I don't want. anyone to consider that it might be me. And if if as my partner you're thinking, "Oh, he's out somewhere. He's with. someone doing something he shouldn't. be," then I haven't got time for it. So, I expect that. Um, but also I I I expect. to be. appreciated and reciprocated. Um, you. know, I know it's it's complicated. It.

doesn't happen all the time. And there. are times when you're in a bad mood or. whatever, but as I was walking here, Sarah texts me saying, "I know I haven't. said it loads because um I'm just. feeling really sick, you know, with the. pregnancy and everything, but she went, "My my baby has hit the jackpot with a. dad, you know, and like I just want you. to know I really do appreciate you." Um, and I haven't said it much lately, and. that's that's that's all I need. Why does that matter to you so much? Because I I want to know that I'm. valued. Um, and that's that's that's the. thing for me. I don't care. why. Um.

because if I'm going to give someone my. all and like I said earlier, if I'm in. love with someone, they get everything. They get all my stuff. If it's stuff. they care about, they get all my time. They get everything, right? Um and I. need to know that there's value in me. giving myself. Does that link to your childhood at all? Perhaps. Yeah, perhaps. I I just fully. believe and maybe this is why I write. love well. I fully believe that if I'm. with someone, they've got it all right. I don't.

believe in I don't mean that in like a. really um codependent way because that's. like the worst, you know, if you're kind. of encouraging each other into. something. I feel like you both need to. live your lives independently but make a. good team and like you when you team up. together thing good stuff happens. basically. Um, and yeah, perhaps. But I. but I I think that I. for me if I'm. not if I don't feel like I'm valued. enough, I don't feel like my.

um it's not I say sacrifice, it's not a. sacrifice, but if I don't feel like what. I'm giving isn't appreciated or my worst. nightmare is being tolerated. Like if. I'm with someone and they just go, "Yeah, all right." and they just they. just tolerate me. I'm out the door. Um. because I'm too good for that. Like I I. have value and everybody does. I'm not. saying me as an as an individual. Each. and every single person has their value, right? They deserve to be appreciated. for that value. And if they're with.

someone who doesn't appreciate it, takes. it for granted, um whatever, then you're. not with the right person. You know, I. think that you you need someone who uh. respects you and appreciates you um and. who sees your worth perhaps more than. you do. I mean, I I don't see myself. that clearly sometimes. Um and Sarah. will often often say like, you know, the. text she sent me saying, you know, my my. my babies hit the jackpot with with the. dad that they've got coming up is, you.

know, that means a lot to me. I haven't. had a chance to reply yet, but I will. after this. And that is it's a really. big thing, isn't it? It's so such little. effort for her to send, but it means a. [ __ ] lot to me. Have you heard about love languages? Yeah. Have you ever done the the old love. language test? No. Have you? Have you not? I do. You know, I tend not to not that I. don't believe in that stuff. I just tend. not to um I think ignorance is bliss. sometimes. If I'm super aware of it, then I don't. know if it's like I said earlier with. the therapy, right? When you're aware of.

your your thing, your stuff. Yeah. And then you do it more. Ah. And until. you learn the tools of how to overcome. it or how to at least challenge it, it's. frustrating. And I feel like if I. learned that I was this way inclined, every time I did it, I go, "Shit, comment." Like apparently I'm apparently. I'm like the archetypal Capricorn. You want to do your love languages now? Go on, shall we? Yeah. [laughter]. I did mine and it's actually really, you. know, I'm not that guy. I'm not like a. I'm not I don't look at this the sun and. decide what's going to happen tomorrow. because of the way the planets are. I'm.

not that guy. But the the love language. thing is based on asking you a bunch of. questions about like what you value. more. So ultimately comes up with an. answer and it says Jim Chapman values. when someone does this and yours would. be words of affirmation or or. recognition. Mine is slightly different. So we'll talk about mine later. But um. we're going to do your love language. now. This is going to drive me for the rest. of my life [laughter] now. Like I said. like apparently I am the most type of. Capricorn and every time I do anything. that's sort of Capricorny now. And I. never really believed in this sort of. stuff. Every time I do anything now, I'm. like, "Damn it, my bloody scars told.

me." or something. Okay, here we go. Okay, so me and Jim. have just completed the full love. language survey, which took um about 10. minutes. And his results, why am I nervous? [laughter]. I know everything about you and I'm. looking at all of your results here. Um. so it says, and this is not surprising. This is what I expected from our. conversation up until that point, right? Jim's primary love language is words of. affirmation. Right. Actions don't always. speak louder than words. If this is your. love language, unsolicited compliments. mean the world to you. Hearing the.

words, "I love you," are important. Hearing the reasons behind that love um. sends your spirits skyward. Insults can. leave you shattered and are not easily. forgotten. Kind, encouraging, and. supportive words are truly life-giving. to you. And you rank as a 33% on words. of affirmation, which is high. you rank. on as 3% on receiving gifts, 17% on acts of service. And then. physical and physical touch and quality. time, you rank the same. Okay. I would say gifts, I think it.

might mean more to somebody else. I. think that my job comes with a lot of. stuff. Yeah. So, I don't really care about it so. much. Um, I'd agree with that. Um, like. I said earlier, we get lots of hate and. it bounces off, but if the hate comes. from someone I love, Yeah. that's an issue. Yeah. If it's an insult as well, that's. an insult. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's. that's a problem. if it comes from. someone um that that I care about. Um. yeah, you know, I'm really lucky because. Sarah does all of that. She actually. does most of everything. Um which is. great. Um and I'm genuinely I'm very.

fortunate to have her. Um she is. everything that I want. And I use the. word want and not need because I think. that's the difference between. codependency and like a healthy. relationship. I don't need her. I would. be fine. My life would continue. but she. brings a little uh a little spice, a. little something extra, you know. [laughter] what I mean? Um and and it's. much more enjoyable to have her by my. side for everything. For sure. So, what's next for you then? You're. you're working on a lot. We were talking. about this off air.

Yeah, I am. Um I'm always working on on. stuff because like I said, just I just. love creating. Um so, I have just. started a production company with my. friend. We started in January or. February last year. So, just as the. world like exploded. But actually, you. know what? has given us the chance to. really knuckle down. Um, and we've got. some really good headway so far. Um, we're having lots of big conversations. with important people and people seem to. like our stuff. Um, I we do scripted and. unscripted. So, I head up the. unscripted, sorry, I head up the.

scripted stuff. So, my writing so far, I've got a couple of films on the go, writing a book. Um, I'm also working on. a like a like a show, like a series. Um, and we've got a bunch of unscripted. stuff that I also chip in on. Um, but. that's very much James, my my my. business partner is very much his sort. of um wheelhouse. Um, and the difference. in time it will take. So, he's. constantly having meetings and. constantly like churning stuff out, whereas my stuff takes a lot longer. So, I often feel like I'm not pulling my. weight. But then I'll send him like I.

just sent him a document yesterday, which is 20,000 words long, which took. me two weeks to write, and it's like a. an entire breakdown, beat by beat of how. I see this new thing working, and he's. like, "Oh, so you're doing stuff.". [laughter]. So, it's it's it's weird, but I think um. we both we both are really invested. We're both really good at what we do. We're successful in our own rights. Um. but I think there's something special. about working on something that's just. for passion. We don't need this to work. We just really really want it to and. that's really exciting. You know, if they say, oh, you know, Jim Chapman.

was a success 10 years from now, what. would they mean? Um. what would that mean to you? I mean for. me if I were saying it about myself it. would it would mean that I in terms of. work. it would mean that I was respected in my. field. Um it would mean that people who my. contemporaries appreciated my input. Um but more than that if it were just in. general success it would mean I got out. okay. You know what I mean? I came out. the other side of this and um I.

have I'm I'm content. For me, contentment is sort of like a. a goal, you know, and I don't think it. is for many people. Um, I don't want to. stress about stuff unnecessarily. I. don't want to constantly strive for. more. Um, I don't feel like it's. necessary. I want to be really happy. with what I've got. And I have that very. in spades with my people, my family, my. friends, um, Sarah, my my baby on the. way. I've got more contentment than I.

can throw a stick at. I don't have it in. terms of my career because I'm. constantly worried about where it goes. So, do you ever [sighs]. I hope I do. I hope I I think what what. it would take is um a project that is. very successful, say with my writing, and then people come to me rather than. me constantly knocking on. You know what. I mean? It'd be really nice to be in a. position where go, "Hey, you wrote that. thing and it did really well. I want to. give you opportunities now rather than. me chasing it." And I have that in terms. of the social media. Like I'm very lucky.

to be in the position I'm in which is. sort of I've been doing it for for a. very long time and have a good name for. myself. So people often come to me. I. don't have it in my the other part of my. job and I'd love that. But I'm still new. at it. I've only been doing it, you. know, like I say, I've been writing the. first screenplay for three and a half. years, but that only got to a point. where it was worth talking about a year. ago, you know. So it's still very much. in its infancy. So I I just hope that I. get to a point where people. um like my stuff and go, you know what, you're really good at this. let's let's. work with you on this project. If it.

doesn't happen, it won't be through luck. of trying. Um, and I won't hold it. against myself. I'm not going to be I. won't feel like a failure. Um, because I don't I don't really. believe in that. I I I believe you can. be a failure if you if you quit and you. never try. You never try at all. Right. But. if you don't make it and you and you've. given it a good bloody shot, then you. know, you've done better than most. Yeah. I said that tweet the other day. and I was in the gym and I thought about. it and I thought you know the the. concept of worry and fear are so. illogical because you know no human has.

ever done more than their best and even. on my [ __ ] days where I'm like really. unproductive and whatever bad mood or. whatever that was actually still my best. that day. for sure. by definition. So this, you know, um but. it's it's fascinating and I um I looking. over your story and your career, one of. the the key things I saw was this. temptation from you to like resist your. labels and to and to not be sucked into. the world telling you who you are. Yeah. I I I think it doesn't really you.

know what it's one of those things where. you meet people and the second question. they ask you is what you do for a. living. The first being, hi, what's your. name? Right. And there's more to all of. us than what we do. Like I said earlier, my job isn't what I my job is what I do, not who I am. Right? So I don't like. being. Jim Chapman YouTuber, you know, um. stifling. It's like a box. It is totally a box. And in the same. way, it. the same way that, you know, an. accountant might not want to just be. called an accountant, you know, there's. more to him. He's got his own life and. whatever. Um I just feel like it's it's.

pigeon holing and it's tricky in this. industry because people don't like you. being good at more than one thing. if. you're written about um in the press or. whatever, it's probably for you. entrepreneur, I'd imagine, right? For. me, it's YouTuber still. Um and. actually, like I say, that's a small. part of I upload one video a week and. I've only been doing that since we found. out we were pregnant because now it's. exciting to talk about stuff. Other than. that, I haven't uploaded for 6 months, you know what I mean? So, there's more. to us. We're allowed to explore new. avenues, do new things, but I think.

for the sake of um. society understanding who which box you. fit in, right? Cuz in articles they have. to use a word. so that the reader knows and they can't. say Jim Chapman and then list your your. skills. Yeah. [laughter]. So they're like box. Which box? Right. And I understand it because it's. it's how we even down to like you know. the a simple individual level. We all. stereotype. Yeah. I mean that's just that's just. psychologically it makes sense because. totally and it gives us sort of like.

categories to work from. If you're. walking down the street and you see. every single person as an individual, it's sensory overload. So you see. someone in say a certain clothing and a. suit, you're like, "Oh, okay. You're a. banker." He might not be. He might like. wearing a suit, but in your head that's. what he's done because it's easier just. to sort of carry on with your day. Compartmentalize. Imagine if we didn't. Imagine if you. know lion running towards us. We. thought, I wonder if this is a good. lion. Do you know what [laughter] I. mean? I I said this to Sarah just the other. day. We're having a conversation, quite. a heated conversation about something.

and um she's I call her worst case. scenario Sarah quite a lot because she. often will catastrophize, right? And I said, "You're the kind of person. that sees someone running and you assume. they're running from, I don't know, a crime or or a gun or. something. I'm the kind of person that assumes. they're running towards a bus [laughter]. because I I I I see the world as. neutral, right? I don't think the world. has an opinion on me. Um, but I see my. people as positive and I know there's. lots of negativity out there, but um, I.

don't see the world as that kind of. place in general, whereas some people I. think are geared up to think the worst. It's like, um, you know, the whole fight. and flight thing. Um, some people are geared I think I. think I'd probably die, right? Because. I'd be geared up to see a stick as a. stick, whereas actually it makes much. more sense to see a stick as a snake. because on the one time it is a snake, you don't die. Whereas I'd go, "Oh, it's. a stick and then get bitten and die.". Um, so I think if it were 200,000 years ago, I would be no good. But actually in. today's society, I'd do all right. because I just like to see I think.

inherently I just see the world as a. neutral or or at best positive. Um, I. don't want to think that everybody. running is running from an explosion. You know, it's just not the way I choose. to see the world. I think that's a much healthier way to. see the world. Like to think so. I think it'll take you much further. But anyway, listen, thank you so much. for your time today. I think you're an. incredibly inspiring guy, not least. because of what you've achieved, but. because of your willingness to be. honest. Thank you. And I think, you know, a lot of the. stuff you've shared about your childhood.

and being open as a man about, you know, the impact therapy has had on you, I. think, is such an admirable thing. And. even your call to, you know, to men to. go to therapy, I think is something that. I can completely get behind. Um, there's been so much stigma around. it for, you know, you know, a bunch of. historical reasons, which as a society. we're overcoming. But I but I really. applaud you for that and I'm super. excited to see what you do next. You're. you know you're clearly someone that's a. brilliantly talented, b incredibly. hardworking and um yeah and that that.

mixed with your your um your huge amount. of self-awareness I think is going to. make for some unbelievable. I I hope so. Um I also think that it. could go totally the opposite way. [laughter] Uh but but either way, you. know, I I I. will I know whatever I do, I'll do to. the best of my ability, you know. So. even if it doesn't go the way I intend, I'll find the next thing, you know. I'm. smart enough to do that. Thank you. [music].

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