How To Make Money..."Do Not Buy A House!" 10 Ways To Make REAL Money: Ramit Sethi

Ah, this is driving me insane. To make a. lot of money, you don't need to be a. genius. You just need to remember a few. key things. Ramit Sati, financial. expert, the money man, New York Times. bestseller. Has more than 20,000. documented success stories. This is your. chance to never worry about money again. You can live a rich life regardless of. where you came from, regardless of your. income. How many people are clear on. what their rich life looks like? Less. than 1%. When I talk to people who have. a spending problem, 100% of the time. they always say the same thing. I just.

need to earn more. If you doubled your. income today, do you think your problems. would disappear? No. Some of the stats I. pulled out from your book, about 25% of. people who make $100,000 a year plus are. still living paycheck to paycheck. Makes. us realize that maybe the things we. think we need are things that we have. been socially taught are important. For. example, owning a house is the best. investment. It means you are successful. But it can be a very bad financial. decision. There are far better, far. simpler investments. So, I've got £100.

that I want to invest. Where do I start? I love that we're getting into the nuts. and bolts. Let's do this exercise. together and everyone can do it with us. First off, and then Got it. Now, there's. just one more thing you have to do. Do you know the math? I would have. 736,000. in my account. Yeah. Reit 10 money rules. This is where the. real wealth is created. Number one,

this episode changed my perspective on. money. I'm an investor. I've been. investing for the last six, seven years. at different levels. Big companies, small companies, the S&P 500 funds, you. name it. But Rammit changed my mind. He. changed my mind on money, spending, investing, and he changed my mind on. something that I think 95%. of you that are listening to this. podcast and that are about to listen to.

this need to have your mind changed on. too. that if you have the right. philosophy towards money, the right. perspective and mindset towards money, then there is a path to living our rich. life, to becoming rich that enough. people are not talking about. He debunks. the myths of money, the limiting beliefs. about money, and he confronts all of the. unhelpful advice about money that stands. in the way of you becoming rich. There's.

an app on my phone that I now have. installed because of this conversation. And there are three big investments that. I've now made in my life because of this. conversation. And there is one key idea. that I now believe will make me 10 times. more wealthy over the next three decades. because of this conversation. You're going to love it. Enjoy.

[Music]. Remmit. Someone's just clicked on this podcast. on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple, and. they saw the title, they saw the. thumbnail, they thought that sounds. interesting. Tell me why you think they should stay. and listen to what we're going to talk. about today, what they stand to gain if. they give us their time. Whenever. someone hears someone talking about. money, they get rigid. They instantly.

think that someone's going to come in. and tell them, "You can't spend money on. lattes. You can't go on vacation. You. can't buy any new clothes. Save all your. money until you're 90 years old." And. maybe, just maybe, then you can spend. it. And I don't believe in any of that. I think you should spend extravagantly. on the things you love as long as you. cut costs mercilessly on the things you. don't. I think you should live a rich. life today and an even richer life.

tomorrow. And so when you combine money. and psychology, you start to understand. that there is more to a rich life than. just some number in a spreadsheet. People already know they should be. saving more. They know about compound. interest. They may not know the. intricacies, but they understand if they. invest some now, they're going to have. more later. So, what's stopping them? That's been the central question that. I'm fascinated with for the last 20. years. That's why when I studied human. behavior and persuasion and psychology,

I was obsessed with this question of. what are the things we know we should. do, but we still don't. You can live a. rich life regardless of where you came. from. You can live a rich life. regardless of your income. Now, of. course, having a higher income. dramatically helps, but just like. fitness, we can all improve where we. are, and that's what we get to talk. about today. When you talk about the. language, language of money, what do you. mean? I mean understanding the nuts and. bolts of money. So, just the same way.

that we all learn how to drive, we learn. the rules of the road, when to use our. turn signals, most of us do not have. even the equivalent knowledge of money. For example, the basic language of money. would be what percentage of your income. are you saving and why? What percentage. are you investing and why? When will you. have $100,000 or $500,000 or a million. dollars and what will that money get. you? Because just having a million.

dollars in the bank is pointless. What. does it get you specifically? This is the basic language of money. You've got to know your key four, six. numbers in your life. Not many, just a. few. But once you understand those. numbers, it's like understanding the. speed limit. Understanding the speed. limit means you understand a lot. There's a rule of the road. If you go. too fast, what's going to happen? Why do. these rules exist? And these rules are. similar in money. You can break them.

That's okay. But you got to understand. the rules first. What are those numbers. that I need to know? There's four. numbers that I really like to track. I. track these myself and these are the. numbers I encourage. The first is your. fixed costs. Okay, those would be your. rent or your mortgage, your in uh your. uh any debt payments, groceries, the. money that you are spending every single. month that is essentially fixed. And the. number I recommend for that is 50 to 60%. of your take-home pay. So that would be.

if you're spending 50 to 60% of what you. make, what you take home on your rent, your groceries, any debt payments, your. car, you're in good shape. Okay. The. next one is your savings. That would be. roughly 5 to 10%. Savings would be. things like an emergency fund, savings. for a down payment, for a car, things. like that. Third is investments. Uh this. is where the real wealth is created. And. for this, 5 to 10% of take-home is fine. Of course, the more you put in, the more.

you're going to have. And then the. fourth category, the one I love the. most, is called guilt-free spending. This is going out for cocktails in New. York. It's buying a beautiful shirt. It's treating your friends, whatever you. love, yoga, 20 to 35% of your take-home pay. So, if. you're watching or you're listening to. this, just take 15 minutes back of the. napkin, jot down your approximate.

numbers. You don't even have to get them. perfect. And you will be able to. benchmark how you are spending compared. to those numbers. I'll tell you that. those numbers tell me a lot. It's almost. if you just show me those four numbers. of your spending, I can tell so much. I. can tell what you love spending on. I. can tell what you don't. I can tell what. your priorities are. And I can also tell where you are out of. alignment. So I'll give you an example. When I ask people, "What is your rich. life?" One of the common answers they.

say is, "I want to do what I want when I. want." I go, "Oh god, not this answer. again." I hear it every day. I go, "Wow, that's so interesting. So what do you. want?" They go, "Uh, most people have. never thought beyond a trit answer." So. then the next answer I often get is. freedom. I want freedom. I go, "Great. That sounds good. What is freedom?" I. want to do what I want when I want. I. look at their numbers and I see. a huge payment that they're making to a.

30-year mortgage. I see debt payments. I. see car payments. And I go, "Now, this. is interesting. You want freedom, but. you have essentially anchored yourself. down to not be able to travel or to. pivot or to move. How can those two be? How can you reconcile those two? And. that dissonance is actually a. fascinating moment. I love when we. experience dissonance. We all do. I say. that I want to work out more, but I. don't work out more. Why? And what.

you'll discover is people often they. simply have never thought about it. What. what our rich life is these gener these. generic phrases, freedom, flexibility, it's just words. What I really want. somebody to say, I want them to go a lot. deeper, is to say,"I want to be able to. travel for six weeks a year. I want to. go to London. I want to go to New Delhi. I want to go to Thailand because I want. to visit my family." That's a good. start. If we get even more specific,

they tell me what seat on the airline. they're sitting on. They tell me where. they're eating. They tell me who they're. bringing with them. But to simply say I want freedom is so. vague that when I look at your numbers. there's often a huge inongruity with how. you're spending versus what you claim. your rich life is. How many people from. your experience of interviewing people. and doing this research are clear on. what their rich life looks like down to. you know what you described there I want.

to travel for a couple of months a year. and then even further down to which seat. I'm going to be in which class I'm going. to be on as I travel less than 1% less. than 1% of people know that no most. people literally say I want to do what I. want when I want that is their the. extent to which they've thought about a. rich life why does it matter to be? What. did that one that less than 1% of people. that have that planned out have as an. advantage or a benefit from that. meticulous thought that the other 99%.

don't have because they can craft their. rich life that is uniquely theirs. Almost like getting a handmade glove. And in fact, the more you craft your. rich life, the more bewildering it looks. to the outside world. So, I'll give you. an example from my own life. I love to. travel. I spend a lot of money when my. wife and I, we go, we'll travel for. months at a time. I love hotels. I love the hospitality. I. love the details. I I love it all. I.

don't really care about cars. Not at. this phase of my life. It's just not. that important to me. So, when I talk. about my money dials or the things that. I love to spend money on, I might spend. a crazy amount on a hotel per night just. because I love it. But I drive a car. that's almost 20 years old. It's just. not important to me. And I want that. I. want to hear in your life what you spend. extravagantly on but then you cut costs. mercilessly on because I want that.

duality which indicates you are. intentional about your rich life. What. if we're buying things to impress other. people and we don't cuz it's hard to. looking in from the outside especially. it's hard to know if someone actually. likes Lamborghinis. Yeah. or if they're. buying Lamborghinis because they were. beat up when they were 9 years old on. the playground and they're trying to. overcompensate and make the world and. does it matter why they're buying it. Does it matter? I don't know. H first of. all, how would we even know? How would. they know? Is there a is there a.

difference? Do you think just on your in. your opinion on the impact that that. purchase has on us? Whether we're doing. it intrinsically or we're doing it. exttrinsically because I reflect on some. of the things that I spent money on and. I go that was for someone else. Whereas. there's other things I spend money on. which are maybe health related or travel. related like convenience flying in a. nice class on a plane which I go no. that's actually adding a lot of benefit. to my life. Whereas that mansion I. bought out in the countryside when I was. 23 or whatever was a terrible decision. It took me away from my friends because. it was an hour and a half outside of the.

city. Yeah. And none of my friends ever. came to it. So, I was just arriving at. midnight after work in this. mansion with this tennis court by. myself, sleeping for 3 hours and then. driving another hour and a half back to. the city where all my friends in work. were. I go, that was a stupid. decision based on extrinsic external, you know, motivations. It's a great. question and you know, particularly in. America, we love this idea of ownership. We are taught you've got to own. Owning. a house is the best investment. It means.

you are successful. And if you're. renting, no one really says this, but. what they deep down say is you're a. loser. Yeah. Okay. This individualistic. strain really runs deep. And it has led. a lot of people to make poor financial. decisions. Uh first of all, you might be. surprised to hear my view is that owning. can be a good financial decision, but it. also can be a very bad financial. decision. In fact, I rent by choice. And. living in New York, for example, I lived.

here for a long time, I knew that if I were to buy, I would be. losing thousands of dollars every single. month because it actually cost more than. twice as much to own than to rent. But can you imagine the type of. pressures even I got from people who. would come over and say, "Oh, so do you. own this place?" the place that I was. renting. I said, "No, I rent." And there.

was this visible moment of confusion. They're shaking my hand. They know that. I'm the I will teach you to be rich guy, but I rent. How can you be teaching. money, but you rent? Isn't renting for. losers? And I have to say, because I was. rockolid confident in my decision, that. pressure did not affect me. But I want. to also say that a lot of us buy things. based on status. Like the idea that we.

don't buy things based on what people. around us think is is nonsense. We buy. things based on status. To deny it is. absurd. But I do think that for the big. purchases in your life like a house, a. car, the big things, you've got to run. the numbers. And if you decide, hey, you. know what? I want to buy a house even. though it's going to cost me an extra. $600,000 in opportunity costs and. phantom costs, but I'm going to do it. because I like it or it makes me feel.

good. I say God bless. But if you simply. make decisions based on what other. people around you do, then you will. discover like you did, I thought I was. going to feel a certain way and I don't. really feel that way. And that for me is. an opportunity for you to interrogate. your own beliefs. And money is a like a. personal zero sum game, right? Like so I. can't just spend indefinitely. So buying. that ridiculous house out in the. countryside takes away from something.

which might have genuinely brought me. closer to happiness like I don't know. going away with my family or whatever it. might be. Exactly. You you talked there. about buying property. I find that. really curious because the the popular. narrative is for most people the minute. they get any decent amount of money is. to buy your first house. And that's what. people do. they get they take a 10%. deposit or 20% deposit, whatever it. might be, and they buy a house. Um, why. is that a poor investment? Why is that a. bad thing to do? Because that does kind. of sit counter to the popular narrative. Well, we have to remember first of all.

where the popular narrative came from. America. If you ask people, what is the. American dream? Yeah. The answer is inextricably tied up. with a single family home with a white. picket fence. That's not an accident. That is the result of decades of. messaging. Some might call it. propaganda. First of all, most people in the world. do not live in single family homes like. we do in America. That has caused a lot. of issues. But to leave that part aside,

this is how most people think about. buying a house. They think grandma. bought a house in Austin, Texas in 1970. for $100,000. Grandma just sold it 50 years later for. $1 million. Grandma made $900,000. They go, "It's the most profitable thing. you could do. Buy a house." I go, "Okay, uh, that sounds really nice." Did granny. factor in how much she spent on. maintenance for the past 50 years? Uh,

no. Uh, did Granny factor in inflation. and how that affected her return? Uh, no. What's inflation? Uh, did Granny. factor in the opportunity costs of what. that down payment could have been used. if invested in the S&P 500? Uh, no. And. did Granny look at all these phantom. costs such as interest on the loan? Uh, no. It's not simply the bigger number. minus the smaller number. That's wrong. That is simplistic. For the biggest purchase of your life,

you've got to go deeper. Again, when I. was living here, I kept a very close eye. on real estate. and the place right. right next to me, same square footage, same number of bedrooms, same. everything, it would have cost 2.2 times. what I was paying in rent. So, just to. give you an example, if I was paying. $3,000 a month, it would have cost about. $6,400 a month to own. Okay? I said, "You know what? I like renting. If I. have a problem, I just text my. landlord." I took the $3,400 I would.

have spent owning when factoring in. phantom costs, maintenance, interest, taxes, all that and I simply invested it. and I made more money doing that than I. would have owning. What about if you're. buying somewhere to for the rental. income? That can work. That can work. So. owning real estate as an investment can. be part of a well- diversified portfolio. if you run the numbers. Right now. there's a lot of hype. People go, "I'm.

going to buy a house and if I don't like. it or whatever, I'm just going to rent. it out." Okay, fine. But you've got to. remember that if your mortgage is. $1,000, that's not just the amount you're. paying. There's a lot more. In fact, in. my estimations, I add 50% to that price. So, $1,500 a month, which would include. a roof repair happening 19 years from. now. We've got to advertise that out. uh. labor costs, interest, all that. If you.

can rent it out and make a profit, fantastic. It cash flows. That's. awesome. What you discover is that most. people who buy a primary residence, the. place they want to live in, they buy it. because they want it and then they tell. themselves it's an investment. Buying a house can be an investment, but. oftentimes it's not. And there are far. better, far simpler investments. Here's. my key message. I want to make sure. nobody misunderstands me. I've been.

accused of saying buying a house is bad. No, I never said that. In fact, I will. buy a house myself one day. And when I. do, it's going to be a terrible. financial decision. And I'm going to do. it anyway. My key message is for the. biggest purchase of your life, you've. got to run the numbers. Sometimes buying. can be a good financial decision. Often. renting can be a good financial. decision. run the numbers and never feel. guilty for renting. As it relates to. buying a house, I've always been. hesitant because I'm.

scared really of the point you mentioned. about being anchored to a location. So, I the way that I've kind of justified. that away is by saying, "Well, I'll just. Airbnb it when I'm not there or I'll. rent it out when if I decide to move to. New York or whatever." Is there a a cost. in the opportunity of being less. flexible about where you can be um that. people don't think about especially when. they're younger? Yes. And they're. probably a little bit unencumbered by. you know life at that point. Yes. Buying.

a house is one of the most profound. financial decisions that will affect. your lifestyle ever. You can sell a car even at a minor loss, but selling a house involves massive. transaction costs and labor that most. people don't anticipate. One of the reasons that I rent is for. lifestyle reasons. Financial, yes, I. make more money renting and investing. the difference than I would owning, but. also lifestyle. I don't know that I'm. going to be in the same place for 10. years, which is one of the key things.

that I would encourage people to decide. before they buy. You want to know that. you're going to be there for at least 10. years because then you can spread all. those transaction costs. Spread them out. over 10 years. They become much more. affordable. It's kind of like buying an. expensive jacket. If you buy it and you. wear it once, that's really expensive. If you buy it and wear it over 10 years, becomes a lot more affordable. Now, take. that, multiply it by a thousand, and. that's a house. Particularly for young people,

I don't give a lot of unsolicited. advice. I used to do it when I was. young, when I just learned about money. and I realized nobody really wants to. hear it. They really don't. If somebody. comes to me, they come to my blog, my. social media, great. Otherwise, I'm not. going around telling people, you should. do this. Once in a while though, I get a young. person asking me, I'm just about to. graduate from college. What advice do. you have for me? And at that moment, the. the best piece of advice that I have is.

move where the action is. And typically. that's a big city. So that would be. where there's more jobs, where there's. simply more people if you're looking for. relationships. And there's a lot of. tacit knowledge that happens in big. cities. Like, oh, have you tried this? Oh, what? Have you seen that musical? Uh, have you tried this thing? This idea. that's going around. So often. surrounding yourself geographically can.

be hugely rewarding to you as you grow. You can't do that if you bought a house. because everybody told you that it was. going to be the best investment. And if. I were to say, "Show me where you. calculated the numbers that it was going. to be an a great investment.". 75 plus% of people have never created a. simple spreadsheet. How does buying a. house compare in terms of returns to. something like investing in the S&P 500? It's quite poor actually. Really? Yeah. Over about a hundred years, there's. great research showing that it has.

essentially matched inflation. It's been. slightly above inflation. People find. this mind-boggling again because they. think somebody bought a house for 100K. and they sold it for a million, so it's. 900K. But they don't properly factor in. inflation, opportunity cost, phantom. costs, all that. It's really hard to. factor these numbers in. But it's. critical because it's the biggest. purchase of your life. I'll give you. another example of where people don't. properly factor it in. Uh some people.

pay a financial adviser 1%. They go 1%. it's not a big deal. I'll pay 1%. What they don't realize is that that 1%. over the course of their lifetime will. take 28% of their returns and hand them. over in fees. Think about it. If you. make a million dollar in investing over. the course of your life, $280,000 are. going right out of your pocket into that. advisor's pocket. Now, that's super. counterintuitive. 1% turns into 28%. How.

does it work? You can simply go online. and search for uh investment cost. calculator and plug in the numbers, add. a 1% fee, and you will see. The point of. this is that sometimes money is highly. counterintuitive. Really counterintuitive. It's unlike. anything else. If you and I go to sushi. right now and we get sushi for 20 bucks, it'll be fine. If we get it for a. hundred bucks, what do you think? It. probably be a little better, right? And. if we get it for $1,000, the fish will.

have been flown in from Tokyo this. morning and it will be served in an. absolutely stunning setting. So, in. other words, you pay more, you get. better results. We're used to that. If I. spend more on a sweater, it's probably. going to have a different type of. fabric. More on a car, it's going to. look cooler, have cooler features. Money's not like that. If you spend. more, you don't get better returns. You. don't get better anything. In fact, if. anything, you get worse returns. People.

find this mind-boggling because it is. It's counterintuitive. But in investing, costs matter. In buying a house, you've. got to run the numbers because they are. totally counterintuitive. Quick one. before we get back to this episode. Just. give me 30 seconds of your time. Two. things I wanted to say. The first thing. is a huge thank you for listening and. tuning into the show week after week. It. means the world to all of us. And this. really is a dream that we absolutely. never had and couldn't have imagined. getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're.

only just getting started. And if you. enjoy what we do here, please join the. 24% of people who watch this channel. regularly and have hit that subscribe. button means more than I can say. And if. you hit that subscribe button, here's a. promise I'm going to make to you. I'm. going to do everything in my power to. make this show as good as I can now and. into the future. We're going to deliver. the guests that you want me to speak to. and we're going to continue to keep. doing all of the things you love about. this show. Thank you. Thank you so much. Back to the episode. So, what is the S&P.

500 for anybody that doesn't know? Yeah. And what are the returns that I'm likely. to get from investing in the S&P 500? I. really want to simplify this for people. that are at the very start of their. investing journey, you know, because I. mean, this is what you spend so much of. your time doing that. I just think about. my my team here, say the diary of a CEO. There's about 30 people and we started. talking about money one day and it was. mindblowing how nobody in my team's. lives had ever had the conversation with. them about investing. We all think of.

investing as something that rich people. after the age of 40 do once you have a. million dollars. Um or if you don't have. a million dollars then the only other. way to invest we're taught is to buy a. house. Ah this is driving me insane. It's true though, isn't it? Yes. And. that's that's the central part of my. work is that you can live a rich life. and that rich life can be richer and. more vibrant and more personal than you. ever imagine. If you want to travel, you.

can travel for longer than you ever. thought. You can travel for me at nicer. hotels. You can uh spend more time with. your children, with your loved ones. Whatever your rich life is, you can do. that. But you've got to learn a few key. basic things about investing and money. So let me tell you what I would tell my. family when they come to me. They go, "How should I start investing?" The. simplest simplest way that I advise my. family is I say, "Get a target date. fund." So let me explain what that is. A.

target date fund is one fund, just one, and you pick it based on the year that. you're going to retire. So, if you're. going to retire in 2050, if you're going to be 65 in 2050, you go. and you find that one fund. It's called. a Vanguard 2065 fund or Fidelity 2065 or. Schwab 2065. There's lots of brokers. These funds, it's one fund. All you do. is put money into it. That's it. The.

fund, like a pie chart, is automatically. diversified. So, as you get older, it. gets more conservative because somebody. who's 75 years old should be investing. differently than someone who's 25. One fund, all you have to do is set your. money up to go into it every single. month. What is a fund? A fund is uh a. set or a basket of stocks and maybe. bonds. So, we've all heard of, you know, companies like Microsoft, Google,

whatever. A fund owns lots of these, right? And that's important because. we've heard diversification, like you. should have diversified your. investments. Okay? Well, how do I do. that? You don't need to go and buy 20. stocks and then figure out how much of. each to do. That's too much work. And. honestly, most people are not good at. that, even professionals. You buy a fund. which automatically owns lots of stocks. like hundreds of them and over time all.

you the individual investor like me have. to focus on is putting money into it. automatically. So a fund essentially. I've got £100 that I want to invest. Um. I find a fund. Where do I find these. funds? You can go to Vanguard, Schwab or. Fidelity. All those are great companies. uh what you're looking for regardless of. what country you're in is you're looking. for a lowcost brokerage firm. So, but. there's also apps and stuff that I can I. can you can use apps. I don't like a lot. of the apps because they gify you to try.

to invest. They want you clicking and. trading. I hate traders. Trader, you do. not want to be a trader. Traders lose. money. Investors treat investing like. watching paint dry. That's how sexy it. is. Trust me, I'm not getting my. entertainment from investing. I'm going. out, go watch a movie, go watch Netflix, but investing is boring and automatic. That's how it should be. I used a a a. company called Hogre Lands down in the. UK who have an app. When I first started.

investing, um when I first started. investing in funds, they they had a very. ugly app, so I wasn't very compelled to. use it. I think it's better now. But I. would use just do it on desktop, which I. do get your point because you don't want. to you don't want to be game. You don't. want to screen all of that notification. I like ugly. It should be ugly. And you. don't want it to be too accessible as in. I don't want to be able to check it. every day. No, look on my phone. You. will see no investing apps. There should. not be. Why do you need to log in and. check it every day? What's the point? In. fact, I log, you know, most people.

should check it every 3 to 6 months. And. here's how you check it. You log in on. your desktop. Wow, it's up. Wow, it's. down. Okay, bye. You're not tweaking. anything. It's like making Thanksgiving. dinner. Once you've put the turkey in. the oven, just let it sit. Do not fiddle. with it because you're only going to. mess it up. And in this case, you're. letting the turkey cook for decades. And. that fund. So, I've got a £100. I go on.

a website. Yep. Vanguard, Fidelity. Schwab, whatever they are. I have no. alliance to any of them. Neither do I. Um, there's various ones in the UK. I. actually do recommend Hogrey Lands down. just because it's quite simple and I. think investing in funds, there's no. fees. There's no fee associated with the. investment itself. Obviously, they take. a, you know, they might take a. percentage depending on which fund. you're investing in. I take my 100. pounds and investing in Hargrave. landsdown, you don't need, there's no um. minimum. Great. From what I understand, and there's no if you invest in a stock, they charge 12 pounds per investment, but if you invest in a fund, it's free.

Um, I put my£100 into a fund. The fund. is essentially taking one pound, one of. those pounds and investing one pound. into Facebook. It's investing one pound. into Google, one pound into Shopify, one. pound into Spotify, one pound into. Nvidia or whatever. It's doing that for. me. It's managing it for me. It's making. the decisions for me. I just put the. money in every month. Whatever I can and. I leave it. Yeah. And let's go even. deeper. I love that we're getting into. the nuts and bolts here because, you. know, honestly, most people, they do not. know how to invest. Literally, what.

website do I go to and then what do I. do? The fund owns these different stocks and. some will go up and some will go down. and it's inconsequential to you. All you. need to know is you own this fund. Now that you've opened up an account and. you've sent a hundred bucks or a. thousand bucks, great. You've made one. of the most important decisions of your. life. Now, there's just one more thing. you have to do. Set up an automatic. transfer so that every single month you.

have a certain amount of money going in. Now, if you don't know how much money, use my conscious spending plan. guideline. What did I say? 5 to 10% of. take-home is a good guideline. All. right? You should be able to do 5%. Trust me, anyone who comes to me, they. go, "Reie, there's no way. Must be nice. I can't afford." I go, "Show me where. you're spending your money. I guarantee. you I can find 5% to send in every. month." Now, you're not trying to send. it in. I don't try to brush my teeth in. the morning. It's a habit. Investing is.

even easier than brushing your teeth. because you set it up automatically. The. investment fund will automatically draw. from your checking account. And it will. pull in a hundred bucks, 500 bucks, a,000 bucks, whatever your number is. And so, you're not going to log in for. three, four, five months. You're going. to log in a few months later, you're. going to be like, "Oh my god, I didn't. even realize that all this money is in. here." When you add that plus.

compounding over many years, that is how. real wealth is created. So I don't want. anyone to think that you have to be rich. in order to start investing. One of the. ways you get rich is by investing. I've. got a friend that's currently actually. in this building at the moment and I had. this conversation with them about a year. ago. Gave the advice that you've just. given there. And about 2 months later, this individual who I shan name came to. me and I said, "How's your uh you know,

your your your investments going in that. in that fund?" And they said, "Oh, yeah. I had bills. I had a credit card bill, so I I took took it out." Oh, yeah. She. she treated it like a checking account. Investments for me are. places to accumulate wealth. I don't. draw from it. That's what a checking. account is for. So, if what that is is. there's two parts to what your friend is. saying. one is um mentally she's. thinking that this investment account is. just money I can draw from if I need it. So I would sort of gently change the way.

she thinks about it. The second is I. guarantee her account structure is a. little. um subpar. So here's how I would set it. up. This is in chapter five. Uh it's all. automation because trust me, I don't. want to spend time transferring money. back and forth. That's I don't spend any. time on that. You get paid, your money. goes into your checking account. From. your checking account, it is. automatically transferred to a savings. account. In fact, I have subsavings.

accounts for vacation, car, down. payment, all that stuff. So, you have. money set up for specific goals. Money. is transferred to your investment. account. It's transferred there. I'm not. gonna touch that money. I'm gonna let it. cook. And then I have my guilt-free. spending, which is going out with. friends, whatever I love, and my credit. card bill is automatically paid off. every single month. That's how you want. to set it up. It takes a couple of weeks. to set everything up and then you never.

have to think about it again. C how can. you prove to me that this is the way to. make wealth? What case studies have you. got that investing in funds over a long. period of time is the path to financial. wealth? Because you know it's you said. earlier about the paint drying thing. The narrative that we see about how why. people and how people get rich is you. know they sell a company or they have a. lottery win or maybe they buy some. cryptocurrency and it goes up. Yeah. That's what we hear. So that's what we. try and emulate. Totally. We prove to me.

that that's that this fund strategy is. better. Well, there's there's a couple. things. First off, the research over. more than a hundred about a hundred. years shows the returns of the stock. market and the returns tend to be at. least in America they tend to be around. 11%. 10 to 11% and if you take out inflation. you get about 7 to 8%. Per year. Now for. anyone listening they go okay well what. does that mean? That number means.

nothing to me. 7% whatever. If you go right now and you Google. investment calculator and you just plug. in your age, you plug in let's say 200. 300 bucks a month and you plug in 7%. return and you just watch how that money. grows. You will be shocked. Jack, get me. my phone. I'm going to do it now. Okay. So, let's search for compound interest. calculator. And there's a really simple. one. This it's called Money Chimp. Okay.

Okay, I've got it. All right. All right. So, there's four numbers we need to fill. out here. Let's take a look. The first. is current principle. That means how. much you've got in the bank. I'm going. to say. $5,000 and I'm going to start when I was. 16. Cuz if id saved my money when I was. 16 and not spent it irres recklessly, I. think I could have had that $5,000 when. I was 16. Um, annual addition. What does. that mean? How much can you invest per.

year? So, for most people, they think. about on a monthly basis. They might say. 200 bucks a month, which would be $2,400. annual addition. Okay. So, what do you. want to say? I'm going to say, can I say. $5,000? Yeah, that's, you know, about. 400 bucks a month. I think that's. reasonable. I often find that with. people making uh median or slightly. above median salary that there are. hundreds of dollars a month of money. that is unaccounted for that if properly. made intentional could be invested. So.

great 5,000 a year. All right. Obviously. I could have once I got past a certain. age I could have increased that though. So we're going to talk about that. Hold. on to that idea. Okay. How many years? This was you at 20. This was me at 16. Oh okay. And how old are you today? 30. Okay. So 14 years. Let's just do it. until today and we'll see what happens. Okay. All right. 14 years. And then it. says interest rate. So what should we. assume for that? Is that 8%. Yeah. 7 to. eight. I you I do seven just to be super. conservative because I never want to be.

surprised on the downside, right? If. anything, I'm going to make more. So 7%. All right. Let's calculate it. Okay. What do you see? Damn. What do you see? $133,000. 537. Yeah, that's what you would have. had right now. Now, let's add some. context. So, this is really important. You see a number that says $133,000. at age 30. Yeah. Okay. Is that a lot? Is.

that not? Hm. I don't know. Let's break. it down. At that point, you started with. $5,000 and you invested $5,000 per year. We assumed no raises, even though you. obviously made more than you made at age. 16. We assumed you stopped investing at. age 30, which is obviously ridiculous. And you end up with six figures. Let's. play it out. Let's take it until. 40.

So instead of 14 years, you invested for. 24 years. What do you see? I would have $336,000. It's getting better from just $5,000 a. year. Not much. It's fantastic. Again, 400 bucks or so a month is very modest. Remember, people's income goes up. typically in their 30s and 40s. And if. you already are investing a little bit. automatically, all you have to do is. just tweak a number and it will take an. extra couple hundred, three, four, 500.

bucks. Let's do one more. Let's go to 34. years just because I want to see what. happens. and then we're going to play. with the other numbers. Okay. So, investing from the age of 16 until I'm. 50, I would have $736,000. in my account. Yeah. Now, I want to do. the full the full thing. I want to do a. more realistic number here. So, instead. of 50, we're going to go. 49 years.

That takes you to age 65. Yeah. Okay. and instead of $5,000 per year, your. income obviously went up from being 16. years old. So, I'm going to pick a. number out of thin air and and I'm going. to tell you how I picked it. I'm going. to say instead of $5,000 a year, it's. actually going to be. $30,000 per year. Let me tell you why I. picked that. In your early years, you don't have as. much money, but you were still investing. a little bit, which shows that you're. dedicated. as your income goes up,

you're going to start proportionally. continuing to invest. So, at a certain. point, your income will be really high, and that will bring that average up. That's why I switch this to 30,000 per. year. I actually think this is quite. modest, but I'm going to go ahead and do. it. So, here we have someone starting. investing at $5,000. They invest $30,000. per year. Okay? They grow it for 49 years at 7%.

Do you know the math? No. Tell me. 12,33,000. So that's me starting with 5K gradually. ratcheting it up until I'm investing. well investing 30k on year a year per. average across those 49 years. Yes. Which is a flaw in this because it's so. simple that money invested. You're not. actually going to invest that much early. on. you'll invest more later. Yeah, so. you won't actually you'll maybe have a. marginal amount less, but we're talking.

10 versus 12 million. That's a lot of. money. And then if I got 8% instead of. the 7%, I'd have 17.4 million. Yeah, but. don't mess with that. Cuz this is what. this is what people do. They go, "Well, if I got 13%, I'm going to invest in. this PE fund." I go, "Don't do that. You're going to lose all your money. Just stop." Yeah. 7% is safe. It's. conservative. That's why I am here. That's why I want to encourage people, you don't need to juice your returns. I. hope you do get 8%. But I don't want you.

to count on that. I want you to count on. safe, stable returns. And what matters. for you is the time you started early. and the amount you have a considerable. amount to invest. What about the richest. people in the world? You know, we think. of the Warren Buffetts of the world or. the Charlie Mongers of the world who. ended up becoming the richest investors. on planet Earth. Yeah. What was their. strategy? I'll tell you. Let's talk. about Warren Buffett. Uh there's a. friend of mine, Morgan Hel, he wrote. this amazing article. I love that book.

Yeah. The psychology of money. He wrote. this amazing article about Warren. Buffett. If you look at Warren Buffett's. returns, he started investing at a very young age. and the money compounded. Again, it's. like putting the turkey in the oven and. letting it sit there not just for an. hour, but many hours. In his case, 60. plus years. He has made over 90 I think over 99% of. his wealth happened over the age of 60.

Okay, think about that. It's all because. he started investing so far ago. And. what is mindboggling is that you don't. need a fancy strategy. You don't need to. be picking individual stocks. You don't. even need to be a genius to make a lot. of money. You do not have to be the. smartest person in the room. You just. need to remember a few key things. Start. as early as possible, okay? And if. you're not 16 years old, if you're 30, 40, even 45, okay, start now. Second,

invest aggressively every single month. That's critical. Third, keep your costs. low. 1% in fees is going to take 28% of. your returns. 2% is going to take over. 55% of your returns. Keep your cost low. If you do those things, you will have. more money than you ever imagined. What. are the attributes of someone that's. probably going to be poor in 30 years in. terms of their relationship and their. behavior with their money? Easy. They. don't invest. They feel overwhelmed and.

anxious about money and they talk about. it all the time, but they've never read. a single book about money. And there's these deeper attributes they. have. Uh, only rich people invest. They. think that. Yeah. And that's why I'm. here. I want everyday people to know. just like me. I started off, my parents. immigrated from India. I had no special. uh investment knowledge, but I had two.

parents who were educated and encouraged. me and said, "Learn this stuff here. We'll do it together." And that was a. gift. Um, everyday people can build. tremendous wealth, which in and of. itself is impressive, but it's even more. impressive when that wealth is used to. live a rich life, a rich life of. adventure and spontaneity and. generosity. Some of the stats I pulled. out from your book, about 25% of people. who make $100,000 a year plus are still. living paycheck to paycheck. According.

to a recent survey of millionaires done. by the US trust, 83% of the wealthy. wealthy say their largest investment. gains have come from small wins over. time rather than taking big risks. Yes, this is counter to everything we see on. TV because on TV it's really boring. What are you going to look at my. Vanguard account? Oh wow, compounding 7%. per year. It went down 8% last year and. it went up 9% this year. So boring. So, we see these cool stories of business.

owners, and we're both business owners. It is cool, but a tremendous amount of. my own wealth will come from lowcost, long-term methodical investing. That's. like a rule of life, isn't it? That the. the real returns, you know, in reality, the great returns come from patience. Yeah. And consistency and things that. really aren't sexy. Like, they're not. Instagrammable. If I post on my. Instagram today, hey, I've got some. advice for you guys to become wealthy. And I go, need to invest in this fund.

and just leave it there. But if I go, listen, I've got this new NF this new. NFT collection or cryptocurrency coin. that's going to make you a million% this. year. People are going to go all in. That's just like a something within the. human condition where we want we want. big returns with little effort. And. today, we want to get rich quick. Same. with a six-pack. We want the six-pack. abs in 10 minutes. You don't want six. pack abs with diet restrictions and 9. months of work. That's not and that is. why I have a lot of compassion for.

helping people unlearn some of the. messages about money because we all have. them. Uh we all h have the equivalent of. I want six-pack abs. But we also have. something in life that we've spent time. to get really good at and we know that. the secret is basically consistency. If. I go ask someone who's an amazing cook, hey, I want to cook like you. How do I. do it? What are they going to give me. some use cinnamon? No. They're going to. say, "Get in the kitchen and cook every. single day for 5 years, and you're going. to learn about when to use salt and when.

to cook it for longer." Fitness, you. want to ask someone who looks really. good or or feels really good about their. body, they're going to give you some. secret workout. No, they're going to. say, "I show up when I feel good. I show. up when I don't. I show up." when you're. let's think about the people that might. be listening now. So, there's going to. be someone that is a they're a they're a. bus driver or they are a social media. manager. They are a I don't know a. cleaner. They're a teacher. They are a. personal trainer.

If you were if your job was to make that. person a millionaire in 20 years from. now, whatever age they are right now, what is and you were their financial. adviser and in fact, you were. controlling all of their personal. professional decisions. Uhhuh. Talk me through what you would do with. that individual at a very detailed. level. I would do a few things. Number. one, that the most important things I. would do would be set up automatic. investing and be aggressive about it. Two, they have to increase their income.

Okay. I'm going to be that person. I'm. going to embody that person I've just. described. So increase my income. I'm a. personal trainer. Perfect. Okay. So, so. what should I do? All right. You're a. personal trainer. So, first off, I would. say, how much are you charging? How are. you finding your clients? We talk about. that. And let's say you're charging a. hundred bucks an hour and you have. clients, they say, "How long do they. stay on average?" Uh, that's exactly. what I'm charging. Perfect. Great. They. stay longer than two months. I'm very. good. How long do they stay? Three. months. Three months. Wow. Okay. You're. very good. All right. So, your average.

client is worth four uh few thousand. bucks. Yeah. Great. So, you're making. let's say 60,000. a year. All right. Uh the first thing. after I understand all this information, I would say, all right, we're going to. double your income. How are we going to. do that? The first answer everyone gives. is I got to find more clients. Okay, you. should you should ask your clients, hey, I've got a few slots available. Who. would you recommend? So, you should get. more clients. Second, you're going to.

listen to your clients and you're going. to say, um, what else are you looking. for? I know you've got your fitness. journey you're going on. They're going. to tell you, I've got a 10-year reunion. I want to plan for that. Uh, another. person is going to say, "Gosh, I I know. I should be eating healthier, but it's. really hard for me." So, you're thinking. about it. Here's what you do. You create. uh you package up uh meal planning. services. You can either um do their. macros for them and charge them a little. bit extra. Let's say an extra 200 bucks.

a week or 200 bucks a month. You can. also partner with a food delivery. service and you coordinate with that. company to feed over their macros and it. gets delivered to them and you take a. small cut right there. You've added. thousands and thousands of dollars per. year per client as long as they stick. with you. In addition to that, um you. can do group sessions. So you go, "Hey, um I'm going to do a weekend session. I'd like for you to invite your friends. Invite them for free." And of course, of.

the people who come, let's say you get. 15, 20 people to come, you do a free. little session on Saturday. You go, I'm. a trainer. I work in Soho. I have three. open slots. That's how you're finding. new clients. Now, so you're doing two. things. You're finding new clients. You're increasing your average lifetime. value per client. Okay, that's the. that's two things. Now, let's do one. last thing. Let's increase the duration. that they stick with you. They're. sticking with you for three months. Give. them a special offer to stay with you. for six months. So, when they sign up,

they work out with you for a month. You. say, "Look, it's a hundred bucks right. now. If you stick with me for a. six-month plan, I will give you my. sessions at $95 per plan. You'll save x. 5%.". One, two, three. You've increased. And. if we did the math, you may have doubled. your revenue. You certainly boosted your. profit in a huge way. All of a lot of. that's about making sure you're getting. a better return per hour you spend at. work, but also making sure all of those. hours are full, but then doubling down. and making sure each hour because that's.

your your currency when you're a. personal trainer. You're trading in your. time. I need to make the most from every. hour I spend. Um I thought about. something recently as I've been writing. my new book, The Diary of a CEO. Um. which I've written these 33 laws for. building and becoming great. Essentially, it goes across marketing. and business and whatever. And one of. the chapters that I investigate is this. idea of making sure your skills are on. the right market. So my company went. public. And what one of the things that. I I came to learn from sitting with. investment bankers for many many years.

was that if you put a company the exact. same company, let's just say it's you. know the company that make these silver. mugs in front of me. If I take this. company public on the London Stock. Exchange, I might get for example four. times revenue. If I take the exact same. company and I list it on the New York. Stock Exchange, it will be valued at. eight times revenue. It's the exact same. company, exact same people, exact same. business, just moving it to a different. market. And what upon leaving the social. media marketing world when I was 27.

years old, one of the first calls I got. was from a biotech company ran by a. billionaire friend of mine that was. going public and they brought me in. And. on the first week when we were. discussing what they might pay me, I'm. thinking there's no they can't really. pay me in cash because I've got enough. cash. I don't really need that. They can. maybe give me some stock. Their offer to. me for my skill set was $8 million, roughly $8 million in options that I. would earn in 9 months from taking the. company from where it was, building out.

the marketing team, handling the. storytelling, and taking the company. public, which we did at about 3.2. billion valuation. Their offer was $8 million in options. I. reflect on that and go I'd spent the. previous 10 years using the same skill. set to sell consumer goods like dresses. and iPhones for Apple and Logitech and. big fashion brands. I took the same. skill set and applied it to a market and. industry where it was rare. Biotech. people know nothing about Reddit and. Twitter and Facebook and social media.

So my skill set was rare, scarce in that. market. So it was incredibly valuable. And I think about this a lot with with. especially as this AI thing rolls in. I. think people should be looking at their. skill sets and going where is my skill. set as a writer going to yield the. greatest returns. I could be a social. media manager. I could be a uh um a blog. writer or I could add a little bow. string to my bow and become a a. scientific writer and or like work a. writer in biotech and you'll get paid if.

you can add that little bit of knowledge. to your to your writing skills. you'll. get paid I'm going to say five times. potentially five times more. Yeah. And. people don't think about the fact that. they're they they need to use place. their skill sets in the most lucrative. market where it's scarce. Yeah. And I So. yeah, just throwing that out there. because it's really front of mind for me. at the moment. Like personal training, you know, like you could be at a gym and. you lose 75% of your income to the gym. or you can do it virtually. you can. specialize on um just preparing people.

in in the beginning of the year. It's. like your best year and every January. that is your focus. It can be celebrity. clients. It can be uh uptown um. mid-career executives. That's a very. lucrative. You choose but you choose. carefully. I I agree that's a bit of an. advanced concept. I think most people. they start off they go just how do I. make more money? I'm a trainer. I have. free hours. But once you kind of master.

that and you go, like, for example, there's a trainer I know here who. charges 175 bucks an hour. That's very. good. After you get that and you fill up your. entire calendar, you go, "Okay, I'm. making $35,000. a year. I want to make more. How do I do. it?" Now, you need to get creative. You. move to different markets. You add in. package things that scale when you. sleep. You have video courses, etc. There's so many different ways, but I. think everyone would do well to listen. to what you're saying, which is think. about how to move up market or. potentially to a totally different.

market where your skill set is really. scarce. Yeah. And that's the problem a. lot of people have. There's, you know, their skill set might be too abundant in. the industry that social media managers, social media managers is one thing, but. that's a slightly different skill set. because there's there's there's a wealth. of knowledge there that is unique to. that. Knowing the algorithms, knowing. the platforms, there's a real creative. element to it. But I think about my. friend Anthony. He was He was a graphic. designer. Uhhuh. The greatest graphic. designer I ever knew in Manchester. But. he was designing nightclub flyers. And. he's talked about this publicly before.

every nightclub flyer he designed, he. got $50, the equivalent $50 to $100, right? I had a conversation with him a. couple of years ago about this. And I. said, "You're you you're really. specifically good at like luxury design. M he's got that really like beautiful. chic simple but you know elegant design. style. I always go to him when whenever. I need design work like that. So I said. to him move to Dubai. and and go there and help design um.

luxury brands. Yeah. And this guy did. it. So he went from Manchester where he. was doing nightclub flies to moving to. Dubai. And without revealing his. financial position, what I can say is. the same hour per. piece of work is now yielding him tens. and tens more in returns. You know, instead of getting $500, he's getting. $50,000 for for a project. And it's just. moving his skill set, the same thing, designing on the same software to a.

different industry which will appreciate. and pay him more for the same skill. The. lesson I take away from that beyond his. willingness. to actually make a change, which is. amazing, is that most of us do not think. in terms of discontinuous jumps. We. think, okay, I'm making I have a 100. bucks a a month. What if I had 120 bucks a month? Well, 20% is like quite good. That's amazing. But what if I had 500 bucks a month or.

5,000? That's a discontinuous jump. And. to get those kind of numbers, something. big has to change. In business, moving. markets, developing a new skill, partnering, all those things. But it's. different. In investing, it's primarily. time. And that's where we're not attuned. to it. We go, well, you know, I only. have like a couple hundred bucks a month. to invest. That's nothing. It's only. going to turn into a few thousand. You. go, no, you're not thinking about time. Because the human mind is not made for.

compounding. So, plug it into a. calculator and you will be blown away. Same thing buying a house. You're only. thinking of how expensive your rent is, which granted rents are very expensive, but you're not actually factoring in how. much time and money it costs to pay. taxes and maintenance and interest on. your loan. You've got to get smart about. running the numbers. And when you start. to sit back, when you learn the basic. language of money and you understand how. you feel about money, whether it be I.

like status or I like luxury or I don't. really care about XYZ. When you. understand your own feelings, suddenly you can almost look at the. chessboard dispassionately. You sit. back, you go, okay, I see what's going. on here. I even see how I am a player on. the game of life when it comes to money. And then you start to say the most. powerful question of all. What if? What. if I earned more? What if I spent less?

What if I decided I actually love. traveling two months a year or buying a. house cuz I can decorate it the way I. want? What if? What if? What if? And. then you can start to make moves that. line up with your rich life. Someone. comes to you and they say, "What about. crypto?" I get that question a lot. Oh. god. What about crypto? Should I be. investing in that? My friends told me. about this new coin and um I'm thinking. of putting a couple of thousand pounds. into it. I get this all the time. God, should I invest in that coin that my. friend told me about? So, I get this.

question a lot. I I got it a lot a few. years ago. Yeah. Let me tell you what. happened. You know, people read the. book, they know that I'm a fan of. lowcost long-term investing and then all. these crypto nuts grow up and well, they. grow up to be, you know, 19 years old. and they go, "Oh, Ramit Sati, such an. old guy, such a ly. He doesn't. understand investing. This is the new. future. Fiat is dead. I go, "Um, I have. a couple of questions for you. Number. one, what is the rest of your portfolio. look like?" They go, "Portol, I put it.

all in on crypto." I go, "Oh, God.". Okay. Um, second, do you think that it's. normal to get uh 4,000% return per year. when over about a hundred years the. stock market has returned approximately. 7% per year? They go, "Yeah, that's cuz. fiat is dead, you idiot. It's going to. be we're going to the moon." I go, "You're going bankrupt." And many of. them did lose a tremendous amount of. money. My view on crypto is if you have.

a well- diversified portfolio, well. diversified, and you want to have a. little bit of fun with one, two, even 5%. of your portfolio, go ahead. And that. could be crypto, it could be an. individual stock, it could be investing. in your friend's bar in Brooklyn, it. could be whatever you want. But you got. to limit your risk. And what you find is. that the type of people who tended to be. attracted to crypto tended to be. extremely risk-seeking.

And in fact, they saw diversification. and risk management as boring for old. people. This game is a marathon. You want to. live a rich life, you want to be living. it for 60, 70 years. I'm not trying to. get 10,000% returns and then blow out. And that's what happened to many of. them. I mean, part of the problem here. is that when we do get our 10,000. returns, 10,000% return moment. Yeah. We.

think it's going to be 10 million% if we. just But we also go tell everybody. Oh, of course. You never hear anyone saying, let me tell you something. Thank you for. saying that. I went on Twitter cuz uh. you know, I mess around with these. crypto guys a lot on Twitter. I have a. great time doing it. I go, "Hey, where'd. all the crypto bros go?" Everyone seems. to have disappeared in 2023. Where'd you. guys go? And there's just like crickets. where in 2020 they were really coming. out, you know, guns blazing. I said, if. you have lost a lot of money from.

crypto, send me an email. I want to. share your story. I'll keep you. anonymous. I have a lot of people who. follow me on social media. I got less. than three responses. We love to share our successes. We love. it. We do it with crypto. We do it with. buying a house and selling it for a. profit. We do it with business. We do. with all that stuff. But you almost. never hear anyone saying, "Oh my gosh, I. bought this uh I sold it for um one the.

price. Oh, and by the way, because of. the transaction fees associated, I. actually lost like 80% of my money, you. know, or 85% of my money." You never. hear that. It's deeply shameful for. people to admit that they lost money. It's the opposite of status, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And we're not wired to seek. the opposite of status. Exactly. We're. not wired to voluntarily bring ourselves. down in the tribe. Exactly. We are. safety seeking. We are status seeking. And so this is what happens with money. That's why I talk about prenups and why. I talk about investing and mistakes and.

all of the above is that I want to shine. a light and show people if you are only. seeing the top of the iceberg, all the. successes, of course you feel like. you're behind. Of course you feel like. everyone knows something you don't. But. it's complex. Some people make good. decisions, some make poor decisions. We. got to look at them all and then we will. understand what's right for us. So on my. my position on crypto is um I believe in. the underlying technology of the. blockchain and I I'm I've been a big. Ethereum holder for a very very long.

time but it does represent less than 5%. of my portfolio although I am a very big. holder um in Ethereum and I've held it. for so long that although I'm at a I'm. at a point of profit right now I'm well. aware that I could go um into a huge you. know into the red. Yeah. Irrespective of. that, it a has is inconsequential to any. decisions or my like my financial. financial portfolio at large and b.

because of that I have such a long-term. time horizon that I could hold it for 30. 40 years and I've never flinched. I. don't check the price. Sometimes I just. check my password works but I but but. I'm not in I've never traded. I have no. interest in that. Reit's 10 money rules. I just want to go through these 10 money. rules because you mentioned prenups. there and I was quite curious that. number 10 in these rules is marrying the. right person. But let's start at number. one. Always have one year of emergency funds.

Yeah. So for me, one year of emergency. fund is conservative. It's more. conservative than most. Lets me sleep at. night and I just keep the cash in a. savings account. It's not under my. pillow. Cash does not mean it's sitting. under my bed. Please don't try to rob. me. It's cash in a savings account, totally liquid, and that's what it's. for, emergencies. Rule number two, save. 10%, invest 20% of gross annual income. Yeah, this is all about the numbers that. I shared and being more aggressive with.

them. I know that paying myself first. now turns into way more later, so I. invest aggressively. Rule three, pay. cash for large expenses like engagement. rings or big holidays or weddings. Yeah, this one is controversial because for. the things that are important to me, I. don't want price to be the number one. concern. So, I'd rather save up for it. When I was in my 20s, before I ever met. my wife, I knew one day I would get. married. And because I'm Indian, I knew.

we would have a big wedding and I wanted. it to be amazing. So, I started putting. money aside every single month. automatically. I do the same thing for. trips, house, etc. Rule four, never. question spending money on books, appetizers, health, or donating to a. friend's charity fundraiser. Yeah. So, the books and the appetizers are a. little weird. I have something called. REIT's book buying rule, which means if. you ever see a book that you're even. remotely interested in, just buy it. Don't ask a question. Don't equivocate. Just get it. Because if you can learn.

one thing from that book, it can. transform your life. Appetizers. When I. was a kid, we couldn't afford to eat. appetizers. So, we would eat out every. six to eight weeks if we had a coupon. We'd usually go to a pizza place. Getting appetizers was inconceivable. So, now when I eat out, to be able to. see one or even two appetizers that look. good, I go, "Yeah, I'll take them both.". It feels incredibly rich. And this is. just an example of how our childhood. sticks with us. It feels awesome to be. able to do that. Rule number five,

business class flights on flights over. four hours long. Yes. Again, my money. rules, not for anyone else. When I used to when I was in my early. 20s, I would get on a flight and I would. actually in my head scoff as I was. walking from the front of the plane to. the back. Be like, why would anyone. spend four times the money paying for a. first class ticket? Makes no sense. We're all getting to the same place. Haha. I wish instead of disparaging that. I would have gotten curious and I wish I.

would have said, "Wow, if somebody can. afford to get those seats, why would. they? I wonder what they're spending. money on. Aren't we all getting to the. same place?" And if I had gone from. disparagement to curiosity, from D to C, I would have understood that some people. have their office paying for it. Some. people do it for health because they. want to get there. They want their back. to feel good. they maybe need to go to a. meeting and some people just have enough. money that they can do what they want. And when I started to become more.

curious about money, that opened up my. eyes to be able to spend on certain. things and spend extravagantly, but also. to realize, wow, maybe I try this. certain type of food once. Cool. I don't. need to do it again. So for me, my money. rule so that I don't have to decide. every time I take a flight, boom, this. is my guideline. It's done. It's. written. Never have to think about it. again. Rule six, buy the best and keep. it as long as possible. Yes, I love. this. I think we all intuitively have. this idea of quality over quantity, but.

if you look in somebody's closet or you. look at the things in their house, there. may be some inongruity. So, um, for. example, my car is 17 years old. It's a. good car. I mean, for me, it was a fine. car. I don't care. It rides fine. It's a. four-door Honda Accord. I told you very. sensible, long-term. Great. Uh, buy the best, keep it for a long time. It's the same with clothes. Um, those. things matter to me. I like that. And so.

I'll buy something that might seem very. expensive, but I'll keep it for a long. time. Good for the environment as well. Yeah. Rule seven, no limit on spending. on health or education. Yeah, this this. one is important. Um, I learned when I. was in my 20s and I started training and. learning from personal trainers and. nutritionists that I really loved it. And I also realized that I needed help. I needed great teachers. And so. eventually I just realized I'm gonna. give myself unlimited spending on this.

Same for education. So I'm a teacher. I. teach different programs. Of course, I'm. a student as well. I want to learn from. great teachers. From taking accounting. classes here at Colombia to buying every. conceivable book and digital program. there is, I've given myself the freedom. to do that. And all that came from uh I. had a scholarship I had many. scholarships that paid my way through. college and one of the scholarships set. up an account for me at the Stanford. bookstore. So when I walked in there I.

could get literally any book I wanted. It was like uh Willy Wonka in the. Chocolate Factory. For a guy like me to. have unlimited books, it was like. unbelievable. And when I graduated from. college, I realized that would be going. away. And then I remember having this. conversation with myself and saying, "How much would it really cost to. recapture that feeling, that feeling of. being able to get anything I wanted? See. a book on the bookshelf, I'll get it.".

The answer is really not that much. So. over time, that then expanded to health. and education. Health I find really. compelling because. it's clearly clearly the most important. foundation of all of this. It's clearly. the most lucrative investment any of us. could make. Um because everything we've. described, the rich life doesn't exist. without that foundation. Yeah. So, it's. all good investing in your vanguard, but. it doesn't matter at all if you're going. to die. Yeah. If you ask people what's. important to you, they'll often give you.

the same answers. They'll say. relationships, health, maybe travel, career, maybe. Yeah. I go, "Okay, let's. take a look at your spending. Show me. where you spend on those things.". It gets really quiet really fast. Now, it's one thing to spend time on. relationships, and we should, but we can. also spend money to enrich those things. It might be surprising your niece at a. showing of uh Michael Jackson, or it. might be surprising your family by going. home and visiting them. There are lots.

of ways you can use money to enrich. those experiences. Same for health. It. could be what you buy at the grocery. store. It could be training or a gym. membership. It could be whatever it is. that's meaningful for you. But if we. claim something's important to us, it. sure better show up in our time and our. spending. Rule number eight, earn enough. to work only with people you respect and. like. I love this one. I decided long. ago that I only want to work with people. that I like and respect. And so I earn.

enough money so that I can do that. And. to me, who you surround yourself with. matters profoundly. Ideas seep into your. consciousness. values seep in. If I'm. around people who when I look at the. calendar, when I have a meeting with. them, I dread it. I already know it's. the beginning of the end. Most of us. have to work with though, right? Like we I say have to. I. shouldn't use that word. I don't like. saying have to, but most of us spend. most of our lives, especially the early. part of our lives working with.

Um, we work with people that we may not. particularly choose ourselves. I think. that's probably. so yes, I built a life where I could. make that decision for myself. I'm the. CEO of my business, but I think what is. important there is the intentionality. behind it. It's like even if I worked at. a company, I would be deciding on which. division I want to work in, which boss I. want to transfer under based on do I.

like and do I respect him. That's it. the intention is there. You again, these. are my rules, not anybody else's. But if. this one strikes you, then the way that. I would interpret this is, wow, who in. my life do I not like? Who do I not. respect? Do I need to be around them? Maybe it's not work. Maybe it's the. friend that I hang out with socially on. Saturdays. Again, we have a choice. Not. on everything, but in the things we do. have a choice. What a shame if we don't. use it. Rule number nine, prioritize.

time outside the spreadsheets. Yeah, too. many nerds love a spreadsheet and they. they go, I got to optimize, sell B43. B43 never talk back to me. I go, all. right, look, yes, you need to know your. numbers. Yes, you should be. automatically saving and investing all. that. Yes, do the conscious spending. plan, but at a certain point, you won. The turkey is cooking. You won. You know. your numbers. Turn the page. Get out of. the spreadsheet. A rich life is lived.

outside of the spreadsheet. So on a. personal level, that means I spend less. than one hour per month on my finances. It all runs. It's a machine. It's a. system. I speak to my wife. We talk once. every couple of weeks about money. Besides that, do not spend time tweaking. because the rich life is lived having. conversations like this, seeing friends, seeing my family. That's where I want to. live. not tweaking things endlessly for.

no marginal gain. Number 10, you mentioned your wife there. Marry the. right person. Yeah, maybe the most. important one of all. Um, marriage is. the most consequential. financial and relational decision we. ever make. And people, they're a little. weirded out by this rule. They go, "What. does this have to do with money?" I go, "What do you mean? The partner you. choose will affect where you live, what. you spend on a dayto-day basis, what.

type of house you buy if you do, how. often you travel, the values if you have. children that you pass down to kids. Of. course, it's important. And so these are. conversations that if you are starting. to date, it's great time. There's. natural moments in the dating process or. even the relationship process where you. can bring up money. So, it's like the. first time you take a vacation together. Take a trip. You go, "Hey, um, just want. to, you know, this is on my mind. I'd. love to just like put it out on the. table. Love that you invited me on this.

trip. I'm so excited to go. I'm just. curious. How are you thinking about. paying for the trip? Who who in your. mind pays for it? How would you see us. splitting this?" That's a great way to. bring it up. And you learn a lot about. your partner. Um, there there are. questions you can naturally ask. You. know, how were you raised with money? What do you remember your parents. telling you? Here's what I remember. about my parents. Genuine curiosity. It. also tells you a lot about your partner. And then there's a few other natural. moments in a relationship where it just.

makes perfect sense to talk about money. Uh when you get engaged, when you get. married, uh if and when you move in. together pre or post marriage, uh if and. when you have children, there are these. natural moments where you get the gift. of being able to talk about money. Do. people talk about money? couples, they. talk about it uh when something goes. wrong. Outside of that, what sort of. percentage of people, couples, do you do. you think talk about money? Rarely. It's. very low. I know. I speak to them all. the time. I ask them, "When do you talk.

about money?" They go, "When we're. fighting or when they talk about it, it's like it's these grooves that have. been created for 40 years. Oh, every. time she goes to Target, she spends too. much. Haha.". And I'm like, "That's not that funny.". Like the running joke between you is. that she spends too much at Target. Sounds like resentment. Yeah. Why not it. be. something different so that when you. talk about money once a month. proactively, you always start off.

complimenting your partner? You go, you. know what? I really appreciate that when. we travel, you always pick the best. flights. I I have total trust because. you always get us there on time and you. pick the flights that are so comfortable. and I just love you for that. That's a. great way to reframe how we talk about. money. But instead, we often simply do. not talk about it proactively. We only. talk about it when something is a. problem. Do you think our partners. should know how much money we have? When. you're married, probably a little before.

that as well. Like I'll tell you what happened with my. wife and me. So, in my book, in chapter. nine, I talk about how to talk about. money and when to talk about money. And. first of all, there's a lot of uh. personal finance experts. They're like, "You should talk about money on date. one." I'm like, "Have you guys ever been. on a first date? Can you imagine who's. talking about their asset allocation on. the first date?" I'm like, "Get a life.". So, uh she had um asked me like years. into our relationship some 401k. question. And I was like, "Read this.

book. Learn it. It's in there." So, I. knew all about her money. We had talked. about her finances and then as we. started getting more serious one day she. came to me and she said I don't feel. comfortable because you know everything. about my finances and I don't know. anything about yours and that was a a. sobering moment because I realized I had. violated my own rules in chapter nine of. talking about money early and. proactively. Why didn't she feel. comfortable? She didn't feel comfortable. because she felt like I knew everything.

and she didn't know anything about me. Being in the dark about your partner and. their finances is very uncomfortable. You're pl we were planning to get. married. So what does that mean? Does he. have debt? Does he not? Does he have. this much money or not? Does he expect. me to pay the exact same amount for this. apartment because I don't know if I can. afford that. There are mil What does it. mean for children? What does it mean for. our elderly parents? All that stuff. This is what money means. Money is not.

just a amount in a spreadsheet. It's. where do we live? Security. Security. Who do we get to be? And you know. security is a really good that word. haunts me because uh we we I realized to. my horror that I had not shared about my. finances. So we had a series of. conversations. and as we got engaged. um we had more. We started talking about. money a lot and uh I mentioned to my now.

wife I said it's really important for me. that by virtue of me running a business. for so long I've accumulated this. business these assets and I love you but. it's important for me that we talk about. a prenup and I was very very scared. I. had talked to a lot of friends and I'm. sharing this because prenups are another. thing that always happen in the dark and. I don't want that. I want people to. shine a light and to understand how. these conversations happen because. nobody talks about this. I'm going to.

talk about it. So, I was nervous and all. the advice online is awful. It's like, um, have the conversation. I'm like, what conversation? What do I say? Or. some people they tell you to blame your. lawyer. My lawyer insisted I have a. prenup. I'm like, if I can't be honest. to my soon to be wife, what kind of. relationship do we have? So, that's what. I said to her. And she responded like, "Awesome." She was like, "Wow, I didn't. expect that. I don't know much about. prenups, but I'd be willing to learn.

more." I said, "Fantastic." So, we start. talking more about it. We both get. lawyers, as you're both required to. And. it was going pretty well. until it didn't, and we started really. disagreeing about money. and we were. we're just like fighting and she finally. said we should go see somebody because. this conversation is not going the right. direction and and I totally agreed with.

her. So we literally went on Yelp and we. searched like therapist near us and we. found one right there. We went and we. sit down and this therapist was great. She asked us what does money mean to. you? And she asked me first, "It's so. obvious. Money means growth." Like, I. could literally see the compound. interest charts in front of my eyes. I. know about the rule of 72 and expense. ratios. Growth, of course.

She asked the same question to my wife. My wife says, "Safety.". Like, what? That's like somebody saying. metal. Money means metal to me. I go, "Huh?" And it was that that we realized. we saw money completely differently. Completely. It explained to me why my. wife wanted more money in just sitting. in a checking account when I go, "But.

that checking account is losing. potential interest. Why would we lower. our yield?" Blah blah blah. We were. looking at it through two totally. different lenses. So that single question was very helpful. in us reframing our conversations. It. didn't change everything overnight. We. still had a lot of conversations we had. to have. And even once we got married, we still have conversations now. They're. different. They're about spending and. investing and prioritizing. But it was a new way for us to look at.

the way we related to money. Where did. her lens come from? Childhood like most. of ours. Same for me. In fact, every. time I talk to couples who are now in. the seat that I was in, I ask them, "What do you remember about growing up. with money?" And they always tell me. similar things. Uh, my parents never. talked about money. That's very common. Or, um, they said certain phrases like, "We can't afford it. Money doesn't grow. on trees. We don't talk about money in. this family, etc., etc., etc." Imagine.

you hear we can't afford it a hundred. times, a thousand, 10,000 times growing. up and you turn 25, 35, you start to. make decent money, but every time you go. to buy something, you feel guilty and you feel anxious and. you feel like I should be saving this. money and you can't figure out why. because on paper you make more money. If. you came to me on my podcast, we would. trace it back and you might realize it. is something as simple and vivid as.

sitting around the dinner table and. hearing mom or dad saying, "We can't. afford it." Our childhood sticks with us. and we can change, but it's so important. for us to acknowledge that it sticks. with us. If I approach my partner and I. say, "I want to get a prenup." And they. say, "What? You don't trust me?" Yeah. And they say, "No.". Uh, what do you do? Is that the. question? Well, I I would say first of. all, I wouldn't start off like that. I. think there's there that is one of the.

most important conversations you're ever. going to have in your life and the. subsequent conversations. So, take it. seriously. You show up and you explain. it. I explain it perfectly and they turn. around and say that and they say no. They say you don't trust me. Uh, no. Okay, that's a contingency you might. have to plan for. So, you might say, "Okay, can you tell me why? Tell me. what's going through your head. I want. to understand your perspective. This is a conversation. It's not a. dictate. Trust. You don't trust me.

Yeah. Would you marry that person? I would. have a lot more conversations. I can't. say yes or no because you can't judge. someone based on their reaction in a. situation they've never been in. How am. I going to react if I got in a car. accident and I start crying? Can you. judge me my entire life based on that? No, but let's say that we extend it and. and you and I are in a relationship and. I ask you I it's important for me by. virtue of this and that and you go I.

don't you don't trust me. If you are. unwilling. to even discuss it, if you're unwilling. to talk to friends, to talk to lawyers, to talk to people you can find on your. own or I can introduce you to, then I. think we have a bigger disagreement. about values. And you know, the way that. most of us think about a prenup is it's. usually some rich uh telling. someone who has way less money like sign. this paper or it's over. And again, that's Hollywood. prenup which I learned.

is all about if the marriage ends. what you had before or any agreed upon. assets stay with that person. So if you. have a business and your partner and you. get married there's no prenup and for. whatever reason god forbid you separate. suddenly that business might be at risk. the portfolio that you accumulated. before you ever met your partner might.

go to them. And that when you explain it. that way, most people go, "Oh, that. doesn't really seem fair." But the money. that you accumulate together as married. partners, yeah, there definitely should. be an agreed upon that money needs to be. split, etc. And no person, especially. the partner who earns less, should be. left out in the cold ever. Do do you. notice any differences when you speak to. these couples or on your podcast? um in. gender differences as it relates to. people's relationship with money because.

I read a lot of stuff about men being. more prone to gambling addiction and. gambling generally. Yeah. Yeah. I think. there are a lot of differences. I think. gender is one of the axes that people. differentiate on. Um I see typically. more aggressive investing from men. I. typically if I see a gender difference. in investing differences it would be. much more conservative with women. I. might see um words like safety and. security used more commonly by women. Um. but I think there are also other axes.

Uh socioeconomic class is a huge one. that we talk about and that's something. that's very uh under the covers. particularly in America, but we talk. about it point blank. If somebody tells. me I've been poor before and I can be. poor again, doesn't bother me. I can. tell you how they were raised. I can. tell you probably to some geographic. area. In fact, um if they tell me um my. parents said be seen and not heard, that. tells me a lot about someone in their.

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to get a free month's Whoop membership. on me. And if you do, send me a DM and. let me know how you get on. I'd love I'd. love I'd love to know. When you look at. really successful rich people that are. living their rich life that might be. billionaires, millionaires or just. living their rich life, what are the. unobvious things, the the character. traits, the the philosophies towards. life that you see? Whether it's, I don't. know, confidence, whatever that means, whether it's patience, what are those. like character traits? They're really. good at multiple things. Like really.

good. When I was at Stanford my first. year, there was a Nobel laureate. professor and the professor next to him. was making a joke, but it wasn't really. a joke. And he said, you know, you'll. hear stories about a person being an. amazing chemistry professor, but they're. just a disaster at home, etc. But not. him. He's a Nobel laureate. I think it. was in chemistry. He's at the top of his.

field in chemistry. And by the way, he's. published papers in music and he's an. accomplished father. That was the first time that I had been. exposed to the idea that you can be. absolutely amazing in multiple domains. because it's a comforting story we tell. us that, oh, this person's really good. at this, but they're probably a disaster. in everything else. What I find is that. the people who are really good at. something, they're actually good at a. lot of things. They take those skills. and they transfer them. They show up on.

time. They prepare even though they. didn't need to. Look at all the. preparation you've done. That's cool. You didn't need to, but you did it. And. they're probably good socially skilled. There's a lot of things they're really. good at. So, for me, that is. inspirational because it means that I. have a lot I can work on. Flip that. coin. Then on the other side, people. that you would bet on. Give me three. character traits of people that you. would bet on never living their rich. life in terms of character traits. Uh.

number one, they they're surrounded by. people who uh keep them down versus. build them up. So that would be phrases. like um why do you need to do that? Um. that's weird. Don't get too big for your. britches. Okay. Number two, um. impulsive. M they make decisions based. on what's in front of them versus. stepping back and looking at the entire. chessboard and having a long-term. perspective. And if I were to ask them,

tell me two things in your life that you. do with a long-term perspective, they. would probably struggle to answer it. Whereas a long-term thinker would be. like, "Oh my god, I could talk about. this for four hours. Investing, parenting, travel, uh what I wear on my. feet, and on and on and on. Health, perfect." Um, and three, no personal vision of a rich life. So if. I ask them, "What is your rich life?". They go, "I want to do what I want when. I want." I go, "Yeah, yeah, what?" Uh, I.

want, you know, I want the house and I. want the car. And I go, "Okay, what type. of car?" Like a Ferrari. Oh, okay. Like, how come a Ferrari? Oh, it's just cool. Like a red Ferrari. Like no personal. connection to it. If they were to say, "I want a Ferrari because uh you know, my uncle once had a Ferrari and I saw. the race in Italy and blah blah blah." I. go, "Wow." But if it's just things, objects, driving without a satnav. Yeah. Yeah. Super interesting. I wish I'd had.

this conversation when I was 18. I' I'd. certainly be in a much different. position now. I think about if I if I'd. been even more savvy with my money and. I'd had it compounding sooner in my. life, my life would be. would be a lot different. I actually I. ponder and that's why there was such a. pause there whether it would be happier. cuz I I don't even I don't even know if. Well, your story brought you here what. you did. And look, I wish id started. squatting when I was 14 years old. I. didn't know what a squat was. Yeah. And. so we all deal we play the cards we're. dealt with and then we make the best.

with what we've got. And I never want. anyone to feel like it's too late. There's always something you can do. Honestly, your life has turned out. obviously very fantastic. But I love. that you grapple with these questions. just like anybody. We all wonder, is it. too late? What if I'd started 5 years. ago? And of course, we can't do anything. about that. We have a closing tradition. on this podcast where the last guest. leaves a question for the next guest. And the question that's been left for. you without knowing who they're leaving. it for is, oh, okay. What is other people's biggest.

misconception of you? Uh, I think the biggest misconception is. that I have a very specific way of. telling you what your rich life is. But that's not true. Uh, that comes. across because people will often. interpret what I say about buying a. house that I'm telling you don't buy a. house. Not true. I'm gonna buy a house. one day myself. What I what I crave is.

encouraging someone to build their rich. life with intentionality. Don't do it like me. My rich life is. mine. Your rich life is never going to. look like mine. Nor should it. The. misconception is that I'm telling you. follow this exact formula and you will. be rich. No. Follow this formula and you. will have a lot of money. But building a. rich life takes your unique creativity. and only you can do that. Do you see that as a piece of work that.

we all need to do? Like the kind of the. exercise that you ran me through there. Do you think that everybody needs to um. do that initial piece of work to really. sketch out what otherwise what are we. working for? You're saving money. blindly. That's what the whole journal. is about. You've got to know down to the. intimate detail. What is my perfect. Saturday? What do I not want to do? I I. guarantee you when I ask people what. their perfect week looks like, 0% say I. want to spend three hours doing laundry. I go, great. Can we use money to solve. that problem? Easy. Luggage in the. airport. Can we use money to solve that.

problem? Done. We never have to think. about it again. So, we've got to design. our rich life. It doesn't just happen to. us. Nobody trips and falls and lives a. rich life. It is intentional and it is. ongoing work and in my opinion is one of. the most important pieces of work that. we can ever do. And that's you're right. exactly what this journal does. I will. teach you to be rich journal. And throughout this journal, you kind of. hold people's hand through those. exercises. But solo or you do it with a. partner and you get to dream about.

money. Most of us feel so nervous and. rigid and scarce about money, we feel. ashamed. This has almost no numbers. It's all about what does your rich life. look like? And if anything, you finish. this and you dreaming bigger, not. smaller. When I look at this journal as. I go through it, there's there's a real. emphasis here on just heightening. people's turning the lights on in terms. of what money is, but really heightening. their their self-awareness about their. relationship with money as well. Um, which seems to be the foundation of. getting good at money. And your other. book, I will teach you to be rich, which.

is the second edition of this book. The. first one came out, I believe, in 2009, just after the financial crash, which is. perfect timing. Um, this one. came out in 2019. So, this is an updated. version of the book. I mean, millions. and millions of people have bought this. book. the nuts and bolts of money. If. you don't know how to get started. investing, if you have debt and you're. not sure what to do, if you even have. questions about uh should I buy whole. life insurance, the answer is no. Uh. should I um buy or lease a car? It's all. in there. No guilt, no excuses, no BS.

Just a six-week program that works. You're referred to as the new finance. guru. And I think, you know, we do need. new finance gurus because there's not. enough financial literacy from the very. start of our lives as you saw from my. story where I just just my relationship. with money was catastrophic and I could. be in a much I'm very aware that I could. be in a much different position because. of those early mistakes I made and. mishaps and my early relationship with. money. So people do need to start. getting educated with their money. because as I said at the start of this.

conversation, it is about living your. rich life and that is a subjective. thing. For me, it was having the freedom. of choice broadly across every facet of. my life about where I spend my time and. and who I spend it with. Um, but it is. the foundation of that freedom of choice. and that's what your book and your work. does so brilliantly and articulately. It. gives us the the path to freedom of. choice and we get to choose what our. rich life looks like. So, thank you so. much for your time. Thank you for being. an inspiration and being a loud voice in. the conversation around money. I know so. many of the people listening to this. podcast are completely in the dark about.

money. And so having these kind of. conversations and having the practical. roadmap to how we can improve our. relationship so we can unlock the future. we want is um incredibly important now. And I'm sure it will remain incredibly. important in the future because there's. going to be a lot of influences like. Instagram and Tik Tok that are trying to. tell us a story about money and. aspirations and what we should be aiming. at that are unhelpful and. counterproductive to our happiness. So. thank you Ram. Thanks for having me. Heat. Heat. N.

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