How I Taught Millions Of Women The Most Important Skill: Girls Who Code Founder: Reshma Saujani

i gotta figure out how to teach every. single girl to code that's how the. world's gonna be a better place. founder of ceo of girls who code. best-selling author reshma. i was often bullied at school our house. would get spray painted go back to your. own country and my mother just takes a. look at me and she's just crying and i. remember thinking. i will never. be silent so i ran for congress the new. york times finally acknowledged my race. and they sent a reporter they were. knocking on doors we had young girls. having my poster up she then decides to.

write a story about my shoes. i'm not buying into that [ __ ]. i wasn't gonna let failure break me when. i started girls with code point four. percent of girls were interested in. coding and then we ended up with ten 000. girls who code clubs and then we. exploded in india and in the uk and. girls were interested. in making the world a better place. in building girls who code tell me about. the other side you know at the same time. i was trying to build girls who code i. was trying to have a baby i had more. miscarriages than i can count.

i think when you are a social. entrepreneur and you're building. something the work is never done and. it's always at the sacrifice of others. for me i got that really wrong. really wrong so what advice would you. give to people who are probably veering. towards another rock bottom in their. lives. i think. so without further ado. i'm stephen bartlett and this is the. diary of a ceo usa edition i hope. nobody's listening but if you are. then please keep this to yourself.

[Music]. reshma. i am as i was reading through your story. it reminded me of a quote that i read. many years ago and i i saved this quote. in my bookmarks and twitter and so i. went and looked for this quote when i. knew you were coming here today and it. and it somewhat resonated with me in. terms of your story the quote is my. parents were tasked with the job of. survival and i was self-actualization. the immigrant generational gap is real.

what a luxury it is to search for. purpose meaning and fulfillment. and i know you came at least your. parents came here from uganda. take me back take me back to your. childhood and the context in which. you were. molded yeah well my parents escaped the. dictator idiamine in 1973. they changed their names from. mukund and madhu to mina and mike. because i think a recruiter told my dad. that the only way he was going to get a. job as an engineer instead of he was.

working as a machinist in a factory was. to change his name. i think about them often because i can't. imagine in my 20s. coming to a new country. leaving your entire family or having to. leave your entire family not having a. single person that you know not knowing. the language and having to build a life. for yourself. and they did it um. you know they did it with a smile. they never really complained about it.

and then everything became about giving. us the life. that they had sacrificed so much to have. when you have parents that come from. that background um. as you've written about. what they want for you as a child tends. to be centered on. you being able to survive in the world. and you wrote that when parents have. might have been a quote you said when. parents have lots of resources they care. more about you following your passions. but when they're like first generation. immigrants they care about you also. getting into a career where your.

survival is guaranteed yeah what did. they want for you at that age and what. did you want for yourself you know i. think they wanted me to be you know a. doctor a lawyer or an engineer. and they wanted me to have a career. where i could you know. be upwardly mobile right for them it's. always about like okay if we're making. 40 000 a year i want you to make 80. you. know i want to do better than i'm doing. um but so much about steve was about. drawing in the lines. you know not calling attention to. yourself you know i i was a very.

different child. you know i led my first march when i was. 13 years old. and you know i think there was a moment. i talk about this sometimes you know we. grew up in this very white working class. family in the midwest. and i was often bullied at school. and my mother was you know harassed for. wearing a sari at the kmart you know our. house would get teepeed or spray painted. go back to your home country. i remember this one day. some kids literally spray painted on the. side of her house you know go back to. her own country.

and i woke up that morning my father was. sitting you know with you know. a jar of clorox. and he was just quietly cleaning. the side of the house. i think he was like humming a bollywood. tune. and i remember. watching him and thinking. i will never be like him. i will never. be silent. i will never not fight. and for him you know i think that that. was the task that you had to pay to be. in this country and i and and i think.

there's so many. microaggressions or just obvious racism. that he faced in the workplace you know. opportunities he didn't get the name. calling all of it he never talked about. it never made him angry. and i think part of that was about. making sure that we had a different life. you know i have the story that you know. i've told before but the last day of. eighth grade you know it's a big. celebration there's been this girl that. had been harassing me the entire time at. school you know calling me names you. know back then they would call somebody.

a [ __ ] as a derogatory term for somebody. who was brown. and so she called me this name and she. said and you know she basically. challenged me to a fight and instead of. saying. no or ignoring her i was like all right. i'll meet you at the back of the. schoolyard. and i remember right at the end of the. day the bell rings my best friend food. was like just get on the bus just get on. the bus and i'm like no i don't know. what it was maybe it was the last day of. school. but i show up to that schoolyard and the. entire schoolyard is just full of kids. and everyone's screaming and there's.

spray paint and confetti. and she just comes up to me and bank. and then her friend has you know a. baseball bat. and i basically get beaten up. badly. with a tennis racket and a baseball cap. and i came to my friend who god bless. her. drags me home. and i remember walking in and my mother. just takes a look at me and she's just. crying and she's looking at my father. why'd you bring me to this country why.

did you bring me to this country she. said that she says that. and they don't call the police. they don't call the school. they're just crying. and i am like i have like a concussion. you know i and the next day is my eighth. grade graduation. and my sister reminded me she said you. woke up the next morning and you look at. mom and dad and you say i'm going to. graduation. and i have this beautiful. blue lace dress. and my sister called her friend over who. like did my makeup. and again we go to graduation my father.

i think finds the parents the parents. just they laugh and say kids are kids. and again my mother cries why did you. bring me this country. but you know that was a. a shift. in myself because i think up until that. point i was trying to be white. you know i was mad that my parents made. me reshma instead of rachel you know i. was mad that i sometimes smelled like. indian food you know i was mad that i. couldn't go to church and know what they. were talking about that we believed you. know in krishna instead of jesus and at.

that moment everything shifted. and i realized that i'm not white. i'm i'm never going to be accepted. um and so i better be proud of who i am. and i better fight for who i am and for. people like me if i removed that. experience. from your history what would i be. removing from your character oh my god. everything everything i. i am i think 100 of who i am from that. moment um. again i think a year later i led my. first march i started my first.

organization called prism prejudice. reduction interested students movement i. got better at naming organizations the. older i got but that's when i became a. warrior. you know that's when i became. a fighter and so i'm so grateful. to have had. that trauma. because it's made me who i am but i will. be honest i don't think i have fully. processed it. um i don't i don't remember i don't like. relive that moment until other people. who were there like do you remember that.

app like even my sister reminding me. that i woke up the next day being like. do you know that you said that you're. gonna go to graduation like i don't. remember that so i i still do think that. even though these experiences are. transformative. um. they are. they're painful. you know right now we're going through. in new york city this you know all of. this asian hate. and all these hate crimes that are. happening. against asian americans in new york city. and across the country. and as they've been happening i think.

i've been thinking about this stuff. because i was like one day i was like oh. i can count the amount of times. literally and that's sad that you can. count the amount of times that something. has happened to you hateful or violent. um. but i think part of surviving is about. sometimes blocking out these moments or. rewriting what they meant to you. in the future. but in the past it was painful. but in the future it can be empowering. it can be inspiring because you can tell. the story and you can you can you know.

it fundamentally changed me i don't. think i would have built the movements. that i'm building right now i don't i. don't have that i can feel. pain i know what it's like to be. um. not accepted to be ostracized to be. hated. and when you when you got into the. working world after university you went. to yale right yeah at three times after. i finally got in oh really oh i was. obsessed. you tried to get in three times yeah try. to get in three times. i again you know grew up in a.

working-class community nobody went to. yale harvard. i joke that there's some like indian. auntie you know at the temple that. talked about some kid but i never met. them. everybody went to community school state. school i didn't even. know how i would apply i don't think i. ever applied to university. but i knew from a young age that i. wanted to do something. and i knew that i lived in a country. where credentials mattered especially as. a woman of color and that if you had. that yale or harvard degree.

people were gonna. believe in you. or at least open some doors. and that was always my from the time i. was 13 years old going to yale law. school was always. the thing i was chasing. is so i had an argument with some a guy. on twitter one day he's actually a. friend of mine and i've always because i. dropped out of university went for one. lecture not for me left. and. he made the case to me which sounds very. similar to the case you've just made to. me which is as a sort of a an immigrant.

getting that stamp from one of. universities is one way to kind of get. security around your future and because. i was kind of in the camp that most. university degrees are actually a huge. amount of debt which you become like. encumbered with and then you get very. little in terms of delivery versus the. amount of debt and time it takes to get. that degree and that there's other ways. but he made that point to me that for. immigrants. in fact getting a. that stamp or that certificate is. actually. um one way that they can secure their. future what was your stance on that yeah.

i mean i think it's a credential i don't. know how much it matters now like now. when i hire people i want to know about. your grit your hustle like how you work. um your work ethic less about where i. don't even think i know we're half the. people who work for me go went to school. nor do i pay attention to it any of them. um but i think when i was growing up it. did matter but i will say. that. being in those kinds of institutions i. often would just sit in my chair and. watch. watched at how people with power. navigate. and i think that that then taught me a.

lot and i would say it's on the boards. that i sit on today you know a lot of it. is just. watching how people operate and how. people navigate you know going to yale. law school i i i said it i never could. raise my hand. because all these kids had gone to these. fancy private schools and i don't know. what they were talking about and i felt. i felt like i didn't belong. and so. that's the bad part of it right because. you feel like. you kind of snuck in and you're not able. to fully step into your power and.

articulate and be who you want to be. um. but i think it was a really. powerful experience for me. in grit because again i kept applying i. kept applying i kept applying i kept. applying and i finally transferred to. your law school and got in and got that. degree now do i think i would still be. the same person. if i didn't have a degree for meal in a. master's degree from harvard yeah. because at the end of the day like it. wasn't those things um that made me who.

i am today. you leave with 300 000 in debt a lot of. debt that is ridiculous yeah i blame my. father. in our in the uk we don't get that much. debt we get. 50k if you'll you know do badly but you. know that's that's probably the top end. but three hundred thousand dollars in. debt when you join the working world. that forces your hand a little bit when. you're in the working world right in. terms of the the jobs that you can take. because you need to pay that off totally. force my hand.

yeah because i would have liked when i. graduated to go be a civil rights lawyer. but instead i get an offer from a fancy. law firm where i'm making. you know a couple thousand bucks a month. and i didn't do the math on the interest. payments you know or how long it would. actually take for me to pay off this. debt because that was just that was just. principle in that interest. and now you know basically 23 years. later i'm still paying it off. but i think that we're we're. that's why i think so many people who.

actually want to make a difference. because they have student loan debt. aren't able to and then wait and wait. and wait and you see all these good. ideas kind of die on the vine because. now you're stuck working for the man. and you literally feel stuck. and you don't know how to get out how. did you feel oh i was miserable i mean. because that wasn't the plan you know. the plan when i graduated law school was. you know to run for office and and i. would just go take this law firm job and. after a couple years i would quit and go.

do the thing. but then i got stuck because i there now. i was helping my parents with you know. some of their finances i was living this. very i had this apartment that i had to. pay rent for and i was then living a. life. that you know saddled me to that desk. and i was getting older. and then 10 years passed by. and i don't know about you but for me i. i i rise like a phoenix from the ashes. and what i mean by that like is i have. to be at my bottom.

of like anxiety depression despair and. then i make a change. and i really did find myself you know at. age 33 like every night barely being. able to get out of bed you know and. having a large glass of wine and just. crying. because i was like is this my life i you. know they say in hinduism like. you have a dharma like what you're put. on this earth to do. and i feel so blessed that from the time. i was a little girl i knew what my. dharma was i remember just laying on the.

grass looking at the clouds. and just imagining this life. of being a change maker. of making a difference in the world and. here i was 2008 the world is falling. apart and i'm sitting in the freaking. hedge fund as a lawyer like what. i'm so far away from that little girl. who's staring at the clouds and i didn't. know how to get out. from this life that i felt very stuck by. because i wasn't rich i didn't have all. this money in the bank account and i did. have also i think the expectations of my.

immigrant parents because i was doing. what the good indian girl was supposed. to be doing i was a lawyer in a law firm. and nobody i knew. had the path that i wanted to take so i. didn't even know how to get there. and you know i didn't know who to ask i. didn't know who was going to give me the. playbook. and so i was lost. and. i. i remember i had a one of my best. friends deepa. happened to call me.

at this moment and she just said. just quit. and there was nothing like profound but. there was something about i think. hearing those words at the right time. in my life that was like yeah i can just. quit like i can and i did and the second. call i made was to my father. and i remember him saying beta. yes quit. and then i was like whoa. like. because i had built him up. as the reason that i was not chasing my.

dreams. and by getting that permission i. realized oh i was the one it was my fear. you know my fear of like making taking a. risk. that was actually standing in the way of. me actually doing what i was meant to do. um so then i didn't have any more. excuses. and i ran for congress. isn't it amazing that we. most of us especially i think kids of. first generation immigrants. end up trying to live out our parents.

dreams and then the other thing is this. kind of miscalculation of risk i contin. i continue to hear about and that i kind. of faced in my own life that we believe. the risk is. not fulfilling. the external expectation whereas it's so. evidently clear from every person that. i've sat here with that the actual risk. if you just zoom out ends up being. not following. the dreams of that girl staring at the. stars that actually is the risk in fact. the courageous thing to do the most. risky thing to do is to stay in the law. firm because you're risking the most.

important thing of all your happiness. yeah and if you can like refrain that. and understand that like i say this. sometimes to when i meet young people. and they're in jobs they go you're the. risk takers. i'm not i'm the coward. i couldn't take the risk you guys are. taking and i think if you just reframe. it which is clearly what your life has. proven to be it's proven that the. biggest risk was actually staying yeah. it can be a really liberating force and. off you go you run for congress which is. a. tremendous thing to do. yeah crazy thing to do i was 33 i was.

the first. south asian american any american woman. to run for congress in the united states. i had no idea what i was doing like i. said like i didn't have i couldn't be. like hey dad you know you build me a. campaign strategy or. and i had to kind of figure it out on my. own and um. also like people i mean. i ran against this very powerful. uh very vindictive. um woman. who. you know was not was not someone who was. going to take lightly to this young.

brown girl. running against her for her seat did she. criticize you smoothie oh my god still. but still yeah she hasn't really gotten. over it still but. in some ways though it was it's good. because i it wasn't an easy thing to do. meaning it wasn't it'd be much easier if. the seat was open or if the other person. was like this is great you know we have. competition in the race but. i really it was it was such a beautiful. experience because i was so damn naive. like i really thought that i could shake. every hand. meet every voter.

um and i would win but it was the best. the best experience of my life because. it's how i learned how to be an. entrepreneur because you know when you. run a campaign it's like starting a. business and shutting it down in the. span of 10 months. you got to hire people. you know you got to raise money you got. to figure out what your message is what. your brand is it's exactly what taught. me that experience is what taught me to. build grocery code and martial land for. moms um and what gave me probably the. confidence to do it you had to walk into. rooms i mean i had to walk into rooms of.

like you know 65 year old seniors who. couldn't even pronounce my name who had. asked me where religion was right. it was wild. and i never went on television before my. first tv interview was chris matthews. which was the largest news time show he. was so mean to me i didn't even know. where to look in the screen it was a. mess um. i didn't know how to dress. i had never given a like a speech in. front of people before i remember i. would like literally practice my speech. and memorize it and pace my little.

apartment you know. and and so everything was just um. scary but in. amazing it was the best. best still probably the best 10 months. of my life. when you make that decision to run for. public office and that per person starts. criticizing you probably quite. personally probably quite based on. character that's the best way to i think. discredit a political opponent how does. that actually feel in in the moment. because especially reflecting on your. childhood yeah it was devastating.

because i was um well you know first a. lot of you know incredible feminists. like geraldine ferraro were like. trying to get me as gloria stein and was. like why are you running like these are. women who i. admired. um because again i think when you. and i i thought. i would go to these you know campaign. events and people would say well young. people need to run. young women you should run for office. one day. and i naively thought well look i'm. running like aren't is there you know.

isn't that am i doing what you we've. been talking about with the movement. needs but really what they meant is like. run but don't run against me. and don't run against one of us. and and also i think the second part of. my story was very inspirational being. the daughter of immigrants. you know. coming from working class background so. they really had to shift my narrative. and she did a really good because i came. from. wall street you know i wasn't running. wall street i was you know a lawyer a. junior lawyer at wall street but so that.

narrative shift happened and because i. had never. known how to control my own narrative. i lost that battle. and i often found myself on the. defensive. and and people are mean. and i would make the mistake of reading. the comment section. and um. and. it was really really tough. really tough. and i never got the i never got to be. the person that i was you remember this.

one time that we finally got the new. york times to do. you know a story on our race and i had. now. i was this brown girl i had raised more. money. than any democratic challenger i was. actually the only. democrat i was the first democrat. challenger many ways in the in the. history now it's very common you know. alexandria ocasio my friend right it's. back then it was like never done so i. was like this upstart you know that was. making waves in in many ways i think. helped open the path up for people like. alex to actually say yeah we got to.

fight the establishment. but i remember the the last the last. week the race the new york times finally. acknowledged my race and they sent a. reporter and she followed me around the. whole day we're knocking on doors and. immigrant communities were walking into. like you know communities in queens. where you had young bangladeshi girls. having my poster up being like i want to. be like her one day. and how revolutionary it was especially. for the community to see someone who. looks like them. running for office. and i remember she then decides to write. a story about my shoes yeah [ __ ].

yeah. not a word about my campaign but about. my shoes. and it was you know. again such an example of of what we do. to young women young people of color. when they run. you know we make it uh a caricature. we don't take them seriously and then. people don't take them seriously i lose. like spectacularly um. and i was shocked that i lost. uh i had not even written my concession.

speech we had booked this hotel room in. new york city that we could not afford. and my campaign organizers had posted. the entire room with all these notes i. can't wait to be in washington this is. the bill we're going to pass this is the. change we're going to make. i had literally because what happens. when you're. when you're running for office you go to. these you know new york city subway. stops. and you hand out your campaign and. everyone was like i voted for you i. voted for you i voted for you so i was. like i got this and the bag you know. like it's gonna be you know. an upset.

and then i'm sitting there my father's. you know kind of sitting with me and. we're watching the election returns come. in. and like you know five minutes in it's. done my dad's like i'm going to bed i'm. like thanks dad. um. and i wanted to cry. so bad. i was devastated. and you know i had no contingency plan. and i literally picked a fight. with some very powerful people. and i remember there's this young woman. who. every morning was like with me and you.

know she was my she was like my you know. basically my body person as they call it. she's just looking at me. rebecca and i was like i'm not gonna cry. because i know she's gonna remember this. moment for the rest of her life. and i need to show strength. and so. i stood up there in my victory party. everybody's crying the entire place is. crying i'm standing there and i'm just. like you know gotta do it again don't. you worry and then i came back to my. hotel room and then i cried. and cried for like a month.

and how did you pick yourself up from. there. and rise from the ashes once again to. found girls who code and sort of i guess. karen. carrying on with your life. uh drinking a lot of margaritas. no but seriously i think um. i've read a lot about competitive. athletes and. for a lot of them what makes them great. is they had. something that happened in their career. early on.

they didn't get picked in the first. draft. you know they missed that one shot. and it puts kind of a chip on their. shoulder like i'm going to show you. and that's what this brace did for me. it was like i didn't get picked in the. first draft. but i knew what i was. what my potential was. and i was going to show you and i wasn't. gonna i wasn't gonna let failure break. me. take some time to get to that place.

right. the dust has got to settle the tears. have got to be cried and then it took me. a month yeah but i also have a hack on. failure that has worked for me which is. i let myself ruminate about it you know. then talk to my boyfriend now my husband. a million why'd that happen what mistake. did i make you know my father sent me a. nice long email about the 10 things i. did wrong really um. brutal listen. indian parents you know what i mean. um. and then i was done and i said and i was. ready to move on and started thinking.

about what i was going to build next the. campaign maybe that i would run for next. um so the first. i think. for me the first. that was my first really big failure. and i think sometimes the first one is. easier because i i kind of could tell. myself well i did make some mistakes if. i did that differently. if i you know hired that person if i. didn't say that then maybe i would have. won so my first campaign loss was was.

easier than my second one. also understand the system the second. time around right so like the first time. you're actually learning the system. you're playing with and you you said it. yourself you didn't realize that people. would be doing these character. assassinations yeah and i was saying. with my first business i didn't. understand the system in which you build. a business in hiring and all these. things so yeah you can reflect on it and. say oh naivety right right. right but then what happens next. so for me next i. i said well i'm not going back to that.

private sector job that i hated i'm. gonna have to deal with being broke. and. what are all and i loved. i loved meeting people on the campaign. trail i loved talking to them i loved. hearing about. their problems. and. i i'm still that 13 year old girl who. wants to make a difference in the world. still the the dharma warrior. and i was like okay what of all the. things i saw on the campaign trail what. moved me. and you know when i ran for office it.

was in 2010 so it was when tech was. starting to boom twitter was just coming. up facebook instagram. and i would go into computer science. classrooms and robotics labs and i would. just see lines and lines and lines of. boys. trying to be the next steve jobs or mark. zuckerberg and because i wasn't a coder. or computer scientist. i was like where are the girls where are. the people of color. and i kept thinking about those. classrooms. and so then i spent the next year.

basically on my lunch breaks and in my. evenings just learning everything about. why there weren't girls and women in. coding. and started kind of writing a business. plan. that became grocery code and started. plotting my next. run. so i basically ended up running for. public advocate of new york city which. is kind of like the second position to. mayor. and then launching girls who code at the. same time. that's a lot to have on one's plate.

it was. would you recommend that. well the way it played out i would. recommend it because. i. it all ended up working out good for. girls who code because i lost the public. advocates race was about i'm gonna make. sure that every kid in new york city. learns how to code. i lose that race. this time i realized wow like politics. is just it's not like i like to say it's.

not a performance sport it's not a. meritocracy it's not like the person. with the best ideas. wins and now i've. run you know one i've taught 20 girls to. code. uh and so now i'm like all right if. you're not going to elect me i'm still. going to teach every girl to code i'm. going to teach every girl in america to. code and then the world. and then i really have a chip on my. shoulder because now i didn't get picked. for the first draft i didn't get picked. for the second draft either. and you use those skills right so you've. learned a bunch of skills along the way.

and this is one of the blessings of. failure you get to learn all of these. wonderful skills about the nature of the. world and people and fundraising and i'm. guessing in in many ways that was. failure had been a blessing because. without those two. draft misses. you wouldn't have all these amazing. skills you have now right totally i. think the biggest skill that i learned. in being in campaigning is how do you. tell a story. how do you inspire people. how do you. connect to people. and you know by my second campaign i.

don't have the written out speech in my. pocket i don't have the suit on i got my. hoops and my red lipstick. and i i can i am communicating and i'm. there and i'm present. and i have nothing to prove. and you know i don't i fight back when. people do the character assassination. i'm not easily convinced when people say. that they're going to support me that. they're going to really support me like. i can see people now. and so i lose that race but you're right. i learn so much and i become.

more comfortable in my skin in who i am. and girls who code really phenomenal. thing um i read that you've reached. over almost half a million girls with. right. is that half a million girls that have. learned to code. that is crazy that we've actually gone. through our coding programs and then. we've reached about a half a billion. through our work our books our videos. our campaigns. we've reached a lot of kids. tell me about this organization how does. it look how does it function is it how.

is it distributed all over the world i i. read that there's 1 500 girls who code. clubs around the world. yeah well there's 10 there was 10 000 so. 10 yeah a lot and in the uk there's 10. 000. 10 000 girls record well so it. started like. basically the model was. when i started girls with code. point four percent of girls were. interested in coding. and girls were interested in making the. world a better place but when they. thought about a computer scientist they. thought about some guys sitting in the. basement somewhere drinking a red bull.

and they were like yeah no thank you. and we just culturally had done such a. good job of pushing girls and people of. color out of technology you know we had. barbie dolls that said i hate math let's. go shopping instead every image that you. saw on television you know from weird. science to revenge of the nerds was just. again these like really nerdy. white dudes. and so it didn't feel very inclusive and. so girls who code you know are what i. wanted to do is one meet girls where.

they were at. and two change the culture and so what i. mean by me girls where they're at i. started thinking well if girls went to. technology companies. like a facebook. or a spotify and they walked in and they. saw what was happening they actually. learned to code embedded in a classroom. inside a tech company. and that the project while they were. there was to build something about a. change that they wanted to make again. connecting it to what girls wanted to do. then i can then inspire a generation of.

young women to want to be. coders and technologists. and so we started kind of one tech. company at a time and we would build. these summer camps and you know years. you know basically you know in a handful. of years we're running kind of the. largest. summer camp you know in america. and then we started expanding that. and then you know part of. you know as an organizer i wasn't really. a you know i wasn't building a nonprofit. i was building a movement. and what i would say to my students i. would say okay.

and the experience for them was. transformative i mean it was just you. saw these girls just. explode in terms of like what they. wanted to do their the sisterhood that. they built and every classroom was. basically you know. white asian black trans non-binary just. and so many girls had never met you know. girls who were white and never met. someone who was black before never been. friends with somebody who was trans so. like you were basically creating. quite frankly what the world should look.

like in terms of love and empathy and. sisterhood and so. i would say you know during the. graduation i want to ask from you. i want you to go back to your community. and i want to go back to your school and. i want you to start a club and i want. you to find one girl that's going to. join. and so they like met me on my challenge. and so then one girl and then 100 girls. and then we ended up with 10 000 girls. who code clubs across the country in. every single county town in paris and.

then we exploded in india and in the uk. and. same model right where you had. basically girls going back to their. communities volunteers librarians. teachers people saying i want to start i. want to start this i want to build to. help you build this move but i want to. start this club. and so we just had this massive. explosion and then culturally. we started slowly slowly slowly changing. the narrative and making coding cool you. know last year we did a partnership with. dogecat you know where we basically. coated her nails literally in one day.

steven a hundred thousand girls signed. on to the website to basically learn how. to code nails. and now ten years later you know you. turn on netflix and you watch any teen. drama which i love to watch. you know the the protagonist is always a. cool girl coder and so we've made coding. cool we've built the pipeline of talent. you talked about the hardships you. encountered on the campaign trail cat. character assassination yes the anxiety. of it dealing with failure. business is riddled with the same. inevitable hardships so tell me in in.

building girls who code. tell me about the other side. which is the. the difficult parts. well i mean one i didn't know what i was. doing you know and and like i'd never. built a large-scale organization like. that and so. you know i i had one of the good things. was that i had a board that believed in. me always build your first board as. family and friends because everybody. then is um. wanting you to succeed. and so.

they really protected me like i am. i'm intense. and and and if you're gonna come work. for me you know it's gonna be intense. and so intense. uh i you know i don't i don't i'm better. now. but. i'm gonna ask your employees yeah i'm. better now but. i got big vision and i want to get it. done. and i work and all the time. and i don't stop. and it's it's i'm always pushing.

and i believe in many ways i'm an. evangelist. and i believe in so it is it is my. gospel grosser quote was my life my. gospel my religion. and so i think if you're going to come. work for me it's your religion too. i heard you're the passion filter. girls who code. i do have a passion filter yeah yeah but. you but then but then when you become a. thousand. people you know you you or you know 100. you know like you it's hard you're not. going to get everybody who's going to. have that same passion and that same.

intensity do you struggle with that when. people don't. seem to. well when they don't behave in the way. that you would have behaved in that. situation or when they don't seem to. have the same passion and. you know. that you you have yeah i don't believe. in jobs. but for some people it's a job. um but i don't believe in i don't. believe in jobs um so when when so that. that i've you know what do they say you. have the triangle right you have you. have a people every organization has top. a people and then b and then c's and.

then these but you need to have a couple. of cs maybe not d's right. and so and also like i was just telling. you about my father. that sent me the 10 page email or you. know about all the things i did wrong i. wasn't good at great job. thank you for doing that. because. i was an event this was church this was. religion. you know and so i got i got better at. these things. you know one of the things i was always. good at though was hiring people who. were smarter than me i've never had an.

ego. about like i want to be the one. and so. i had really amazing people from the. beginning who as they say knew how to. speak reshma. did you get the. praise criticism balance wrong. i definitely got to praise criticism. i i definitely don't know. i still i i have to i get i'm better now. because i just send flowers. so it's like. um.

you know what because i don't need it. and maybe i tell myself i don't need it. people don't say to me on a daily basis. good job. great work but you get it right because. you get it everywhere you go every time. they i mean you're on cnbc earlier on. right the way they introduce you is. you know it's this is what i'm just. thinking i'm answering this for myself. because i i was interrogating that from. my perspective no one ever says well. done to us in terms of our team right. really like in the same way there's no. but we get i get it if i open my dms on. instagram i get oh my god you you know.

you do i do too but you know i'm gonna. tell you this. i stepped off a ceo a year ago because i. also never believe that anyone should do. anything for too long. and i had built the organization i had. the money in the bank. i had a vision i had an amazing. woman that i wanted to take. take the take the reins for me. and. the day we make the announcement. my my my chief of staff gloria is like. okay brush i'm going to block off. two to four. because you're going to get inundated.

with so many messages. congratulating you thanking you. for your service. and i was like okay yes i'm ready for it. you know tree and i make the. announcement. nothing. and she emails me tarika emails me you. know at five being like oh my god you. must be over i'm so overwhelmed with all. the messages that i've gotten. congratulating me for being the new ceo. of grocery code you must also i didn't. want to make her feel back she's such a. wonderful person i was like yeah.

nothing. and i realized at that moment because i. wasn't the head [ __ ] in charge anymore. right i wasn't the ceo anymore. and so i it was a wonderful the lesson a. little bit too about how much of that is. coming from. who you are. and how much of that is really this. i guess you don't know until you die. i had a few words to say about one of my. sponsors on this podcast one of the. greatest tips i can give any small.

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and able to help you towards your next. business step to find out more search. v-hub by vodafone and thank you for. vodafone for sponsoring this podcast. so this big organization girls who code. all around the world. doing incredibly well what would you. have done differently. i would so i think what i got really. wrong was the personal. you know at the same time i was trying. to build girls who code i was trying to. have a baby. and i had more miscarriages than i can. count. and.

i got into this habit. at girls who code you know very again so. you know i launched girls who code i'm. launching my campaign i have my first. miscarriage and i think when you have. your first miscarriage you you think oh. is this a fluke. and then i had a series of them. but i would literally you know then i'm. heads down building girls who code and. again i think when you are a social. entrepreneur and you're building. something the work is never done and. it's always at the sacrifice of others. and you always are giving giving giving. giving. and i would get into i got into this.

habit where. you know i'd have to go to the doctor's. office my husband and i for the. 11 12 week check-in. and i'd have something planned in the. evening introducing president obama. speaking to a thousand girls doing a. fundraising dinner. and. the doctor at three o'clock would say. i'm sorry mr johnny you know. we don't hear a heartbeat. and. instead of saying. hey guys i can't show up. i'd say okay.

i cry my husband be like rushmo go home. and i'd be like i gotta show up at this. thing. and i'd show up. and i would. did that. for seven years six years seven years. where it just and i would remember we. would stand there in front of the crowd. and be like something's wrong with me. the fact that i can do this. and i would be often times standing in. front of a. thousand little girls the little girl. that i desperately wanted.

and. and so. it wasn't until. you know i think when it became too much. of the way that i was leading and living. and you know by the time after i had my. first and the second my second child the. same pattern started becoming i remember. this one time i got i was in san. francisco and i had to go fly to utah. and. same thing you know doctor calls and. says you know uh you know your levels. don't look good you're gonna miscarry. soon. um.

and i got on that plane to utah and i. had to sit down with the governor of. utah and again another thousand girls. and then i just broke down and i. remember i assembled my team and i said. i i. i can't do this anymore. like i i i i. i'm taking. a couple months off for a month off i. need you to run this organization. this is what is happening in my life and. has been happening. you know every picture every ted talk. every every and when i look at me. standing with president obama or the ted.

talk i think about the tragedy or the. baby that was quite frankly dying inside. of me and so for me i got that really. wrong. really wrong. and um. i don't want people and and part of what. i'm grateful for. is. people didn't know because you know i'm. also in the responsibility of a lot of. young women who work for me. and i don't want them to think that. that's the price that you have to pay. what advice would you give people to.

avoid them hitting because you've hit a. rock bottom moment multiple times in. your life through like unsustainable. behavior right yeah that's how i see it. so what advice would you give to people. who. are probably veering towards another. rock bottom in their lives because. they're not listening to themselves i. guess. well i mean i think the thing is is that. i think. many of us live in this i don't like. up and then crash. right and that's what we think is the.

way that you're supposed to live and i. think you need to live always. healthy meaning like you have to put. your personal mental health and your. personal health. first. and so don't wait for rock bottom to hit. you know see the signs early on and take. those breaks take that time off. you know take a nap whatever whatever it. is that you need to do don't live. in that same way anymore. but it's hard because again the entire.

girl boss culture. the entire kind of lean in culture. the entire you know ceo culture is about. living that way it's almost like a badge. of honor hey i had you know no heartbeat. and i went gave speech. like that's almost like what we think. we're supposed to do. uh. to to lead that's strength. and i think we have to completely revise. what that means and what it means to be. a leader and it means you know empathy i. i too you know was leading girls who.

during the pandemic. and had to lay off a bunch of people and. until that point i had never cried in. front of my team and i would just cry. and cry. and then i would get mad at myself for. about crying but then i think no no. that's exactly what you're supposed to. do. you're supposed to cry you're supposed. to show vulnerability you're supposed to. say hey guys i just got some incredibly. horrible news i i'm not coming to work. but that's often seen as a sign of. weakness and we have to make that a sign.

of strength. i'm guessing your book brave not perfect. was written in this period of your life. oh yes right yeah because there's many. things you regret about that book yeah. because i think that book was also about. corporate feminism about fixing the. woman. and not fixing the structure and look i. acknowledge that in the book. that you know but what i what i used to. say is you know while we're fixing the. institutions let's figure out how we can. fix ourselves you know i.e you know. unlearning perfectionism and orientating.

yourself towards bravery but i really. believe that stephen you know i really. bought into that. um that i that we could get to equality. you know that it was really about the. power pose you know and the color coding. of your calendar and the delegating more. and then not crying in the bathroom and. all the things that you were supposed to. do. to be a leader and i think that's what. women have been told and so we were. never looking at well what's wrong. with the structure why in for example. going back to my experience i was. telling you about fertility you know why.

do we do performance reviews and not. wellness reviews. why are you not supposed to be sad at. work why are you not supposed to cry. you know where did we where did these. values. show up and how do we get them out. written on the back of your new book. which takes. a very different approach on many. narratives. rachelle simmons says. finally we have a book that aims to fix. the system not the women.

and i think when i was reading about why. you wrote this book pay up the future of. women and work. i read that you wrote it from a place of. on one hand anger but also hope for. change yeah. why anger. well listen i mean i. i as a mom you know found myself. 20 20 uh you know. started the year with girls who code. having a super bowl ad i was going to. teach more girls than i ever had before.

i was having my second baby finally. you know via surrogate and so i was. really looking forward to once i was. born just spending that time with him. and just hugging him and kissing him and. staring at him because i had missed. carrying him in the womb. and then you know a few weeks later the. pandemic hit. and i found myself having to take care. of my newborn homeschool my six-year-old. and save my non-profit girls who crowd. from being shut down. because when pandemics hit the first. resources to go are to women and girls.

you know my whole leadership team were. both mostly working women and what we. were saying to each other on the zoom. chat was just just hold on. hold on because when september comes. and the school's open. everything will be fine. and i remember that when that september. came and i got that letter from our. department of education my son goes to. public school in new york city. they announced this thing called you. know hybrid learning where you got to. log on your kid at nine o'clock 10. o'clock and eleven o'clock. all the while maintaining your full-time.

job. i thought two things came to my mind. the first one which was incredibly naive. like aren't they gonna ask me. because you know in the united states we. have these time and use surveys and so. we knew. in the early months of the pandemic. who was doing the homeschooling. it was women. and so we knew that if we made a policy. like closing down the schools. that it was in invariably going to force. millions of women to leave the workforce. because they couldn't supplement you.

know their their paid labor they were. going to have to supplement their paid. labor for unpaid labor. and so the fact that someone that i. don't even know. could make a decision that could affect. my life on a dime. terrified me. and then the second thing was you. started seeing again over the course of. the pandemic 11 million women leave the. workforce. and i knew from building girls who code. because you know girls of code i was. trying to solve the gender gap in. technology but what people forget is.

that we didn't always have a gender. reaction technology that in the 1980s we. were pretty much almost at parity and. then we pushed women out and so. similarly here you can't have women be. 51 of the labor force and then become. you know in the 40s again percent of the. labor force and have all those women. leave in nine months and think that it's. an on and off switch. so i remember like where's the plan. like. is the president going to get on and. announce the plan that we're going to.

have to make sure that. we don't devastate. decades of feminism and so there was no. plan. and that's what really inspired me to. start this moment i wrote an op-ed i. often stephen when i get angry write. and then just post things post articles. and um. i made the mistake or actually it was. the best thing that ever happened is i. read the comment section. and my op-ed was that we need a martial. plan for moms. and when i read the comment section. people on the left were like what about.

the dads. and i was like even though again. men had not been pushed out of the labor. force because this was from a data. perspective. solely affecting women. and then people on the right well mother. has a choice. so you don't get to have affordable. child care or paid leave or any. structural support because you choose. you chose to be a mom. and it was the first time i was like wow. motherhood. is controversial. and i kind of had that same sense that i.

had when i started girls who code like. this is a problem. that needs solving again especially for. women like. our mothers. you know my mom when she when i was a. kid. um. i was a latchkey kid from the time i was. seven. and my parents couldn't afford the fifty. dollars a week for child care. and so from the time my sister and i. were seven and ten she would pick me up. from middle school.

and we would go home now remember i told. you that we lived in this neighborhood. that didn't really want any brown. families there so we wouldn't walk home. we would run home. and then we would open up the door and. close it and we would hide in the closet. because we were terrified. and i think about how my mother felt. every day at 3 45. knowing that her babies were running. home. because they couldn't afford. child care and the unconscionable. choices. that mothers mothers of color have to.

make every single. day. because we don't make it possible for. them. to be mothers and have a job. and so that is when i was just like. all of this. girl boss. equality that expressed me into the. corner office it's just all about you. was like. that's a lie. and i've been selling this lie for the. past 10 years. and if we're really going to get to. equality we have to fix the systems.

there's a really staggering stat in um. chapter 4 of your book that. says that women are now spending more. time on child care than they did in i. think it was 1980. which is pretty staggering because i i. thought we'd. one would think based on all the noise. that i've heard about equality and all. of these things that. women would be spending less time on. child care than 1980. yeah it's because. we're in this moment of intensive. parenting think about our my parents. didn't even know where i applied to. college they didn't know what i was.

doing at homework it was just like go. raise yourself right. now you know we're taking our kids to. spanish hindi and you know. and you know chinese you're learning. three languages going to piano class you. know basketball club. we're constantly on top of our kids. because that is the societal expectation. that we have to intensively parent our. children at the expense of our own. mental health and we also have to be. completely on as workers again we're in. this hustle culture where you're. constantly driving driving driving you.

know. at work and so if you're a working woman. you have these two huge expectations. that that you basically have to meet and. it's exhausting and it's why we have a. mental health crisis you know 51 of. mothers say that they're anxious and. depressed. you know the cdc released the studies. saying that the subgroup that is. suffering the most anxiety and. depression are you know working women. you're seeing this in the uk it's an.

alcoholism adderall addiction it is on. the rise rising suicide rates of mothers. mothers don't break. but they're broken right now. and young people feel like they can. easily talk about their mental health. and how they're feeling and but it is. it's not again you don't. you don't hear mothers talk about that. we're not supposed to we're supposed to. be martyrs essentially or have it all. together. and so there's no outlet for us. you know i say in my book when when.

working women make a list it's like. their kids you know their partner their. pet and then themselves. we are last on the list. we do no self-care and in our and. society. doesn't you know doesn't expect that we. we should be doing that it's seen as. being a bad mom or being selfish when we. spend time on ourselves. how is your mental health. i i would i would say that i am a. i would say that i am a six.

right now i mean i'm exhausted i'm not. gonna lie i think i'm i think that i. think that. i think i have you know two little kids. now two and seven. um you know the pandemic has been. crushing. you know my seven-year-old. eats his clothes because he's anxious. you know my two-year-old you know can't. talk yet you know he's got asthma you. know he gets sick all the time because. now the mask has come out and now his. son doesn't you know his brother doesn't. have one so he's getting sick so so you. know our kids have really been.

traumatized. because of the pandemic and now we're. traumatized. and so. i do think that like. and i think a lot of the. the the women in my life. i think would just need a beat. like i wish they would announce like a. national vacation for like a month. maybe that's the answer to the question. i was compelled to ask next but how. would you get yourself if you were to. give yourself advice if i just told you. what you told me i was the six what. advice would you give me to get to a ten.

i would say uh. take a break. you know or do things for yourself and. listen i think i'm much better at that. so i got. one of the best things i got for myself. was a whoop. yeah. so i'm like obsessed about my sleep. and to the extent that i will go to bed. at 8 a.m or leave a dinner early. um because i know that if i'm getting. eight hours of sleep. i am my best version. i try to play tennis three times a week. i love tennis i'm horrible at it but i.

love it. you know i. try to have fun i went to a justin. bieber concert last weekend you know i. do date night i got girls trips planned. uh i i i make more time for myself i. don't i don't get on but you know. basically for 10 years as i was building. girls who code i would probably do two. to three flights a week. and then trying to take the red eyes to. be home for my babies and i don't do. that anymore you know i say no. i realize that like.

it's not that this opportunity is going. to go away. i didn't realize that before you know. what i mean i was like i gotta do this i. gotta show up here i gotta. but no it's like. maybe i won't get this chance again but. oh well. and it's really liberating. and so i think the only reason why i'm a. sixth question is i'm in the middle of a. book tour and so i've definitely been. orientating more towards old reshma of. like you know three four talks a day. getting on planes doing the thing not.

sleeping as much eating too many. chocolate chip cookies like but i think. my my habits. and have been much more healthier than. they've ever been i'm also really. practicing um. not wanting things. i. i think growing up as an immigrant i. needed credentials. i needed val i needed those degrees i. needed that validation. i needed those accolades.

and i was always chasing the next. big thing. and it's funny as i sit here there's. nothing i want. there's no title i want. there's no award i want there's no. recognition i want. and when i start. catching myself. wanting things. uh i pull back. you know i told you i was just i applied. to yale law school three times before i. got in.

and i got a call last november from the. president of yale saying. um. we would be honored if you'd be our. commencement speaker. now steven like the commencement. speakers are normally like hillary brock. you know what i mean. and then of course my friends were like. the real one my husband's like the real. one i was like yes the real one. but it was so.

amazing. one getting that because that i had been. chasing them for so long and finally. they. they asked me. but two it was um. exactly i wasn't chasing it. a few questions there. in terms of getting putting up those. boundaries and getting good at saying no. is there now like a i think as we age we. develop a prism in which our decisions. filter through. which allows us to decide whether this.

is serving us or not like when you're. younger you just say yes to everything. so. some guy with. i don't know radio station no one's. listening to wants to interview you go. oh my god someone wants to interview yes. i will fly twice tell me where yeah. exactly yeah right but then as you. realize the importance of time and that. every decision you're saying yes you. comes at the expense of something else. is that what is your prism now where you. find yourself in your career. when you're deciding what to say yes or. no to so two things i think one impact. yeah and two i love. listen i love people who are starting up.

and who i know that if i go on their. podcast. or if i. if i have them interview me. i will be the most famous guest that. they have and it will help them i want i. like to be that person and sometimes my. team will big rush you don't have time. to do something no no these are the ones. that are actually. the most important to me. um. and because someone did that for me and. that's how i'm sitting here with you. today. and then i think the other i again i. think going back i've been um. i've been studying the bhagavad-gita.

uh which has again been. a gift i gave myself this year because. it's been something i've been wanting to. do for a long time. the gita is basically our kind of. religious book in hinduism but it's. really a you know it's really a it's. really a book about. spirituality and about how do you. stay really focused. um on what you're meant to do in this. earth and not get distracted by all the. shiny things. and and that's really important to me as.

i kind of enter this final the stage of. my life. of i again staying very focused. on what i'm on this earth to do. and not getting distracted by all the. shiny things and one thing that kita. says is like it doesn't make sense that. human wants that humans want things. because all you're doing is inviting. yourself for disappointment. right if you didn't want anything. you don't get it. doesn't matter because you never wanted. it. and and so um you know that has been.

a really big gift for me. in really staying focused because if i'm. put on this earth to be a warrior. and my job right now is to fight for. mothers to get them respected and. dignified and to change workplaces you. know so that they work for women and. that this is the once opportunity to. make that structural change then. everything i'm saying yes to is about. furthering. that. my service for the people.

in your book you talk about that change. and you kind of list four sort of key. principles for bringing about that. change empower educate revise and advert. advocate. tell me about empower what did you mean. when you wrote that in in your book yeah. so look i mean empower's really about. like women are always told like you. should just meditate more or do yoga and. if you do that you'll feel really good. and so i didn't want to take those kind. of. dated you know again fix the woman stuff. but really what are some like.

non-negotiables and so one of the things. i talk about in the book is this idea of. creating tangible boundaries. and so like in my house you know my. husband does the nights and i do the. mornings. and if i'm sitting around watching. netflix that's sick so big hey can you. change a diaper can you warm up with a. bottle. so at six o'clock i just bounce. i go for dinner by myself. you know i go out with my friends i walk. but i'm just my point is i'm gone. and so i've created that. boundary. um so that i don't get roped into doing. more of that unpaid labor.

than i need to and so i think that the. the need to create boundaries for all of. us that's really critical. you know the second piece is really. about how are we shifting. employers. i am literally just like i was with. girls i am on a mission to get companies. to start subsidizing child care. you know in the united states and then. in the world you know in the u.s you. know child care is like the largest. expense for families most families pay. more for child care than they pay for. their mortgage.

and right now less than 10 percent of. companies subsidize child care we often. think of child care as your personal. problem. but child care is an economic issue. and so i am you know building this. national business coalition to get. companies to start paying for people's. child care they pay for people's egg. freezing and ivf they should be paying. when you take care you know i mean when. you have a child and so how are we. shifting again this idea of you know. what employers should be doing you know.

it's women's it was women's history. month last last month and so many of the. conversations we were having you know. probably you know again across across. the country across the world is about. you know you should get a mentor you. should get a sponsor all of the. programming that we do around women's. empowerment is about fixing women. it needs to be about fixing workplaces. you know why don't companies offer child. care. why don't companies mandate paid leave. for men. so that when you're again doing child.

caring childbearing from the beginning. you get the ratio right you get the. equation right why are we still fighting. flexibility in remote working why are we. still trying to demand that men and. women commute two hours. and not see their children or their pets. or their elderly parents. you know why are we resisting again. you know what we've learned from the. pandemic and forcing ourselves back to. the old normal and how do we push. against this. you know and again shift corporate.

policies um the third thing i talk about. in this book is about you know how do. you revise the culture. you know again it's so normal for women. for example you know to hide their. motherhood i remember when i became a. mom and my team was like great like you. should be a mom blogger i'm like no. anything but a mom. you know moms are seen as like you know. again you know when you become a mother. you're seen as like you don't no longer. care about your career it's like where. you go to die. and i think we have to start shifting. that and we have to start parenting out.

loud. you know you shouldn't be hiding your. kids from your workplace you shouldn't. be apologizing when your kids interrupt. your zoom call you shouldn't be waiting. to the last possible second to say that. you're pregnant because you're worried. that your employer is going to. discriminate against you you know we. have to really start parenting out loud. and being honest about. about that you know you go on instagram. and you see pictures of mothers and. their kids and they're all beautiful and. they're wearing matching outfits that's. not what vacations look like you know my. vacation everyone's fighting with each. other and we're screaming tell the truth.

about what it looks like you know and. that's how we begin to shift. i think the cultural image of motherhood. and we shift from being martyrs. you know to being respected and to being. valued. but like you know again i think i think. motherhood needs a refresh. um across the world and then and then. finally it's really about advocating for. change you know we just went through you. know in in the u.s. you know we just went through the. president kind of proposing policies and.

nothing got changed we didn't get you. know united is one of the only nations. that doesn't have paid leave. you know we don't have affordable child. care. in the uk you have a parental income we. don't have those things you know and so. we need to really make structural change. that comes. from the government to really make. laughter lasting change and we. you know as working women have to learn. how we fight for ourselves you know we. have so many movements that are about. protecting our kids you know mothers. against drunk driving mothers who are.

marching against. you know gun reform mothers that are. trying to protect the climate but there. isn't a movement of mothers fighting for. moms. you know i tell people all the time you. can't change the lives of girls unless. you change the future of women. quick one we bring in eight people a. month to watch these conversations live. here in the studio when we're here in. the uk and when we're in la if you want. to be one of those people all you've got. to do is hit subscribe.

as you look forward at your. your mission and your future. and uh what you hope to. achieve. in the next chapter of your life what is. that tangibly if i had to measure. success if i was to say that your your. you know all the things you write about. the change you write about in this book. if i was to measure and say it was. successful what what what would the. world look like. that we have true equality. you know that that little girls can be.

everything and anything honestly. you know that they can be president or. prime minister that they can launch a. company you know and get seed funding. that they can be a scientist that they. can literally or they can be a. stay-at-home mom. that they can be whoever and whatever. that they want. and i think my hope for mothers is that. they too don't see their their their. biggest dreams die on the vine. that they don't live a life of regret. and envy and should have been would have. been because they let every they let.

things happen to them. rather than change things uh that we. live in a world where we we respect and. we dignify. women and girls we're not there yet. you know we're so we're so far from. being there. in many ways and and i think part of it. again is because. of the things that we've sold women that. we've we've basically told women that. the problem is you. think about all the books that women. read confidence code i gotta learn how. to do a power pose i gotta i gotta lean. in all of it is about women thinking.

that you're wrong. the amount of times that women come to. me and say i have imposter syndrome i'm. like no no no they didn't let you in. you're in there because you are the best. but now you're made to feel like you. snuck through the back door. and so it it what you know what i am. saying in many ways is really radical. and it's you know very deeply seated in. us and it's not just it's women it's. people of color it's poor people anybody. who is. not you know who who has really you know.

had to. had to through grit perseverance you. know found themselves in rooms that. people don't look like them. we're still asking ourselves do i belong. here should i be here. and we're constantly being fed. information book podcasts movies that. tell ourselves that we just have to. change one more thing about ourselves. that we have to fix one more thing. and you know it's just simply not true i. i always say that i feel so lucky.

that you know. through the work that i've done i've. been able to be in almost every single. powerful room i've probably met every. single powerful person in the world. and you know i used to be that girl at. yale law school in my constitutional law. class going like this. and you know a few years ago i got asked. to give a speech. at bill gates summit. and the slot that they had given me. was between bill gates and warren. buffett. and it was the only speech that anyone.

was giving it was a summon a fortune 100. ceo so you can imagine who was in the. room. and i remember them saying you know this. is a really hard speaking slot rashma. because most people are really. intimidated. because bill and warren are sitting in. the front row and it can be a little. scary. and i remember as i was sitting there in. the backstage they had given me 10. minutes of speech i remember thinking. man i wish they gave me 12. because i really had some more stuff to. say.

and then i remember thinking how did i. become. [Music]. how did i become this woman. when i used to be that. girl. and i remember thinking yeah it's. because i've been in every single. powerful room i've met every single ceo. every president every prime minister and. when i meet them i'm like you. you're running what. me and my girls we can run circles. around you. and i realize that it's never been about. whether we're qualified whether we're.

prepared. whether we're. ready that we've really never really. dissected all of the undeserved unearned. privilege that so many people have. and that we have literally bought and. been fed. you know. basically this propaganda. that we're not good enough that we're. not smart enough that we don't belong. and the real resistance. in this moment is saying no more i'm not. reading those books i'm not taking those.

courses. i'm not taking that class i'm not buying. into that [ __ ]. i'm here. and i can lead to. that's a very powerful place to end. however we do have a closing tradition. okay. where the previous guest writes the. question for the next guest oh my gosh. okay and i don't get to see. you don't get to find out who it is and. i don't get to read it to open this book.

amazing jack is the only person that. gets to read it when was the last time a. day flew by and what were you doing. you know one of those days. i don't know if i've had a day but i've. definitely had a couple hours. and i think the last time was i actually. got to visit. my son's school for the very first time. in the pandemic. and my son is a little gandhi he is like. the kindest little soul. and just being able to watch him. and him show me his things and just.

seeing him interact and the joy. and like the confidence and the kindness. and i could have sat there all day. and it felt like again a minute because. i think i was so happy. does he understand your work. he does he doesn't i mean he he does. understand or he's mad at me sometimes. why are you always fighting for girls. and moms what about the boys. but uh. you know it's funny i i brought i would. bring him everywhere you know from.

being on the daily show or giving a. commencement speech and so he's seen. mama. lead and and speak and he knows that i'm. helping people and i think it's in many. ways it i think it has he always said. that he wants to be a kindness engineer. that he wants to you know. be an engineer to to help people. and maybe get hopefully i'm going to. take credit for that a little bit. because i think he sees that uh you know. in the work that i do. but.

but yeah he's he is um he's an old soul. thank you um i have to say you know. it's it's really it's really a. tremendous thing and it's really. inspiring the thought that you've. managed to get. almost half a million girls into. coding it really really inspires me in a. deep level because i've been thinking. about. work that i want to do in my life and so. reading through your story was a real. source of inspiration specifically. around i've been thinking a lot about. because i'm an investor on the show.

called dragons den in the uk um been. thinking a lot about how. young kids from disadvantaged. backgrounds don't know how to invest. their money don't know about taxes and. all those kinds of things and seeing the. model of. girls who code and how you've managed to. reach so many people. on a topic that is liberating if people. can understand it in the same way that. understanding money is liberating if you. can truly understand it. has been is a blueprint for me and. that's why i was so excited to meet you. and your your book is really fantastic. thank you one of those books that leaves.

you with a real sense of mission and. inspiration and really makes you take. stock of your life and and the future of. the industry we we all reside in in the. working world it's also made me consider. a lot of changes that i need to make in. my own companies even this conversation. we've had today because i as a male ceo. and male ceos are the dominant force at. the top of organizations they are the. the most um. abundant. uh creature in organizations especially. the fortune 500 white male ceos. in particular.

can't understand a lot of these things. because they haven't had the lived. experience and even when they say they. understand all the time it's either. virtue signaling to protect the bottom. line or something else and having forces. like you in the world that are that are. able to articulate. this systemic challenge in such an. articulate way is more necessary now. than ever before so thank you for being. you and thank you for writing a book. that i feel everybody needs to read pay. up the future of women and work thank. you. quick one as we all know energy. independence and living a little greener.

has never been more important for a. better future it's a journey i've been. on over the last couple of years that. i've shared with you sporadically ever. since i sold my range rover sport and. bought an electric bicycle and there's a. lot of people out there that listen to. this podcast that are looking to make. that sustainable switch in. the things that run their daily life. whether it's their home their car their. vehicles whatever it might be so when a. good friend of mine at a company called. my energy called jordan told me she was. interested in sponsoring this podcast i. jumped at the opportunity so for those.

of you that don't know my energy are a. uk renewable energy brand whose mission. is to increase the usage of green energy. helping people like you and i to save. time and money when it comes to making. sustainable switches in our lives so if. this resonates with you and you're the. type of person that's been looking or. thinking about going on your own. sustainability journey i highly. recommend checking them out at. myenergy.com. quick one as the seasons have begun to. change so has my diet and um. right now i'm just gonna be completely.

honest with you i'm starting to think a. lot about. slimming down a little bit because over. the last couple of probably the last. four or five months my diet has been. pretty bad and so one of the things i'm. doing now to reduce my calorie intake. and trying to get back to being. nutritionally complete and all i eat is. i'm having the. heel protein shake thank you hill for. making a product that i actually like. the salted caramel is my favorite i've. got the banana one here which is the one. my girlfriend likes but for me salted. caramel is. the one. [Music].

you.