Gary Neville: From Football Legend To Building A Business Empire | E170

That's making me a little bit upset. Fantastic. Incredible, man. It's the owners of that business. It's. really simple. Joke. I don't think. anyone can believe it. One of the things. that people don't [music] know about you. is just the scale of your business. portfolio. It's quite honestly mental. The only thing you can ever do in life. is work as hard as you possibly can and. never give in. What is the cost? I basically collapsed. to the floor and had a fit. I went to. hospital, had checks, and [music] then.

found that I need to slow down a little. bit. And I'd stopped doing the things. that kept me well. And I'd just run. myself into the ground. So, I knew that. that that point then I needed to see. somebody. Manchester United are failing. I do feel sorry for the current players, and that won't go down well with a lot. of Man United fans. These players go out. onto the pitch now, they feel alone. But. that's where I am a little bit critical. of Cristiano. You're the star. Now's not. a time to throw your arms around. Now's. the time [music] to make sure you lead. those people. Resilience and robustness.

and hard work can be taught and learned. I don't [music] think it's something. you're born with. The minute I joined at. 11 to the minute I left at 36, Man. [music] United got everything out of me. Everything. Of all the people I always talk about. having the influence on my life, [music]. I never mention my mom and her mom and. dad. They're far better people than I [music]. am. That's making me a little bit upset. So, without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is the.

Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's. listening. But if you are, then please. keep this to yourself. [music]. We are a normal working-class family. There are no famous sporting ancestors. in our in our family. Yet, somehow we. won a combined 218 caps for our country. at football and netball between us. Tracey Neville MBE, my sister, went. twice to the Commonwealth Games and.

World Championships, representing. England 74 times and coached the. national team. How and why is that possible? That three. siblings in a family reach sport. sporting greatness when there isn't a. long lineage of, you know, the granddad was at Manchester. United, this person was at this club, and they opened doors for me. I don't know, really. I I I. I'll start at the end because I was. having a conversation yesterday about.

um. It was actually how long should you take. off after you've had a baby as a couple, whether it be the the man or the woman. And I was thinking about my sister, and. she took like two or three weeks off, and then she was back at it. And also. my father passed away 7 years ago, and. on the morning of his funeral, I went. and presented. uh our project St. Michael's at a. council meeting, and then went and got. ready at home and went to his funeral. straight after it. And someone said to me, "It's not normal.

that.". Uh uh And my sister. my dad passed away in Australia whilst. he was whilst he was watching my sister. play for the Commonwealth Games. And me and my brother flew straight over. there. My sister. was still coaching the team. She never. broke stride. And he was on a ventilator keeping him. alive even though he'd actually, to be. fair, passed away. And they were just. waiting for us to get over. The day after we got there, my sister said, "I've got a game. tomorrow. We can't pronounce that he's.

actually dead until after I've finished. the game and I come back to the. hospital.". And when I think of that, that's the end I suppose in terms of. that sort of that feeling of just that. drive, that commitment to what we do. I I I. People say it's not normal. Someone said. to me say it's not normal that that we. would continue our lives irrespective of. And that probably came from my dad and. from my mom. But I think of it as in different layers. for me personally. I don't know what it. was like for my sister or my brother, but for me personally, I think of it as. being The first layer was my mom and. dad. That love for sport, that.

commitment to get there early to do. things. My dad used to say, "Get up. early, get there early, get your job. done.". And then when I got to United, I'm hit. by Nobby Stiles, Brian Kidd, you know, Man United European Cup winners of 1968, and then Eric Harrison, a northern tough. Yorkshireman who every single day. drilled us about what it was to be a Man. United player. And then you're exposed. to Sir Alex Ferguson and Roy Keane and. Peter Schmeichel and Mark Hughes. So,

these different layers. of you know, monstrous mentalities of. people who are just massive leaders. We've been exposed to them. I was. exposed to them. And that's why I always say that. resilience and robustness and hard work. can be taught and learned. I don't think. it's something you're born with. And I. think when you say like how did we. achieve that, I just think we're very. fortunate with our parents and the. exposure that we had to brilliant. leaders throughout our career and. examples and the standard bearers that. were next to us.

Learning through words, those words that. your dad would say to you about getting. up and getting out of it every morning. is a great way to learn, but actions, I. think in my hindsight, seem to be the. best way to to really learn those. lessons vicariously from observing our. parents and how they're behaving in. their lives. I I know I'll never forget. the day that I saw my mom my mom stopped. coming home, and then I asked my dad. where she was, and she said, "Oh, she. sleeps in the back of the shop now.". This corner shop she was running. And. then going there and seeing this bag of. rice that she was sleeping on that had. all these rat holes in it from where the. mice and rats had been eating it. That. visual of that she was working that.

hard, even though she didn't have to, to. support our family, that she was. sleeping in the back room every night. and not coming home was was a lesson. that I learned without her saying a. word. Yeah. What are the lessons that. you learned from your cuz you cited your. dad there. as being pretty in in um. a pretty go-get-'em person. How was he functioning in professionally. that taught you these lessons? He was a lorry driver, and he basically. worked for Constellation Luggage, which. was just luggage, you know, suitcases.

And he had to do three drops a week at. Daventry, which is south of Birmingham. And he actually had to get them there. basically by the end of Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. But we had a We lived in a two up, two. down terraced house. And every time my dad got up, you can. hear your dad get up when you're young, you just you just hear it because it's. obviously that you know, the lights come. on and you hear the sort of noise, the. floorboards are creaking. And we always get up early as a family. anyway, but 4:00 5:00, you'd hear my dad. We lived in the back.

We were in the back bedroom, and his. his lorry his wagon was parked at the. back when he was doing to do a drop the. next day. And he'd leave at 4:00 5:00 in the. morning on the Monday, Wednesday, and. Friday. He'd take the suitcases, he'd. wait for the depot to open at sort of. 7:00 8:00, drop them off, and he'd be. back and have his job done by 11:00. And. then he'd start to go and do his what. would be his commercial work, the. fundraising for testimonials, the thing. that he loved for say for instance. Lancashire Cricket Club. That was his. passion. That's how he got into Bury.

Football Club as a commercial director. And into foot foot cuz he But he had he. had a sales mentality, my dad. But he. he'd get his his main job done by 11:00. every single morning. He'd be Daventry. and back in a lorry. And then after. school, he'd take us to football, and. he'd take us to cricket. So, the amount. he fit into a day was unbelievable. You. know, he'd almost do two jobs. He'd do. his job which was his main job, which. was earning him his money, which was a. lorry driver. He'd then come and do the. job, which would be potentially could he. do some sort of like side job selling.

for like Lancashire Cricket Club or. Greenmount Cricket Club. He did He. organized dinners and events and things. like that. And then his family would. come after school where he'd he'd put. them into sport. We'd go to United in. the evening, or we'd go We were at. United from 11:00 11:00. Monday and Thursday night. So, this. constant drive of trying to fit as much. as you possibly can in the day. And. that's where I sort of the attack the. day was from my dad. Get up, get there. early. Let's make sure we're there. Even. at United, we'd get there early on. Saturday. There.

was never any risk with the time of. being late. I feel sometimes that that. is a good thing. It's It's put that into. us. But sometimes to live by that now, particularly with the. It's hard to keep Yeah, it's hard to. keep on doing it. had heart problems at a very early age. of the age of 42. You know, he's a lorry. driver. You know, he liked to go for a. beer. He liked a night out. He did too much. He got stressed. All the things that I.

think. [laughter]. So, you think there's a lot I can see in. my dad of me. Um but I don't think I can. change it, really. [clears throat]. What is the cost? Because for everyone's. I sat here with Tim Grover, who actually. coaches a lot of the young United. players now. Yeah. Coached Michael Jordan and um Kobe. Bryant for a span of 15 odd years. He. was their their sole coach. And he said. for all everyone's greatness, the thing. that causes their greatness, in your. case, you know, that drive and that. ruthlessness and that dedication caused. you to become a Man United legend and. all these other things. But what is the. cost on the other side that people don't.

don't see? From He He referred to it as. we have our light side and we have our. dark side. The dark side is a. consequence and a unavoidable. consequence of the light side. Yeah. What was that dark side for you and your. dad? Um health, I think. And I've seen that in the last couple of. years with myself. I think. Physical health? No. I've had. I've said this, to be fair, on something. that I've done myself in the last week. on The Overlap.

Um. I actually, to be fair, um. Raheem Sterling scored the goal in the. uh. European Championships against Germany a. year and a half ago. And I basically collapsed to the floor. and had a fit. And after that, I went to hospital, had checks, and then. found that, you know, I need to slow. down a little bit, basically. And it's. It's similar things to what my dad was. told in his forties. that you know ultimately I do too much I.

think too much I need to relax more you. know to be fair my wife says it quite. often. you hear but you're not present. [laughter]. so and Justin was in doing interview the. other day and. it was with Jeff Shreeve Jeff Jeff known. me 15-20 years. he said the problem is when I'm asking. you a question. you've got my question inside the first. two seconds let's say it's a 10 second. question you've got my question inside. the first two seconds the next eight.

seconds you're thinking about what. you're doing after I can see it in your. eyes already and he's right. so even during this interview I'm. speaking and sometimes I lose my way in. an interview and I have to forget what. the question was and quite often I'll. say what was the question you know if. I'm on a stage doing like a Q&A what did. you actually ask me cuz I've actually. drifted off whilst I'm answering the. question to something that I need to do. later. and it's I'm never present so the the. consequence is that maybe. I remember Sir Alex saying to me he. missed his children growing up I am. missing my children growing up that's a. consequence of my life I've been in.

London for four days. you know but. what can I do I've got I come down to. Brentford Manchester United I then stay. down Sunday because I don't I can't get. a train back the trains there's a train. strike and then I'm down doing Monday. night football and I'll go back today. last week I was down for another four. days but it's what I do I I love what I. do I wouldn't change it but this. afternoon I'll get back to Manchester. I've got meetings till 6:00 and then. tomorrow it's I'm full all day Thursday. I'm in Glasgow doing a a dinner with Sir. Alex Ferguson so it is a constant sort. of every single day that I feel like I'm.

filling days with things that I love and. want to do. but then you say to yourself you do have. those odd moments more now why am I. doing all this. why you doing this now. you love doing it maybe you know it's. what you enjoy but you sometimes have. those moments don't you I have more of. those moments I think why am I doing. this why have I got two hotels why have. I got a football club why have I got a. university why have I built an overlap. channel I'm on young sky why am I doing. these things but it's it's that idea of. I suppose.

cramming as much into your life as. possible thinking you've just only got. this sort of short period of time. and. Brian Kidd used to say to us get your. pace early you can't make it up at the. end. and we used to sprint and sprint in our. runs and sprint. and that means if you collapsed at the. end and you didn't quite finish it or. whatever it's better than managing. yourself and thinking I'll save a little. bit we I have to say the players that I. played with at Manchester United we. never saved anything it was all left out. there on the pitch. and I I think that's how our our lives.

are since as well we just leave. everything out there on the pitch. there's nothing saved so we just end up. I suppose saturating every single second. of every single day. I used to think that I was driven I used. to think that you know and that sounds. like a very good framing I'm driven I'm. motivated I thought that's what was cuz. you said right why am I doing this after. I do this podcast there's maybe you know. 10 of the companies that I'm running I. have zero time in the day and then I try. and cram in my girlfriend and my family. and do a very bad job of that I used to.

think it's because I'm driven and I'm. just whatever and then I asked myself a. question which I when I met Eddie Hearn. I I saw the same thing I mean his book. is called relentless. are we really driven or are we being. voluntarily driven as in we're making. the choice to drive towards something or. are we being involuntarily dragged by. some kind of insecurity or some kind of. discomfort with. the prospect of not being busy cuz for. me I'm convinced these days that I'm. probably being dragged by an insecurity. maybe but I developed it from a young. age yeah maybe I'm not sure I don't I.

don't know I don't cuz could you stop I. don't feel. not sure cuz this idea that you know if. you stop it'll kill you and all that. sort of stuff slow down I do feel like I. need to slow down I read a book I think. I can't remember what it was a few a. couple of years ago where it talked. about you can never really retire. if you love work and you are relentless. but what you can have is mini. retirements during the year and that's. what I've tried to do I don't do it very. well so for instance this weekend I'm. going to Spain Friday till Monday. morning.

I call that's a mini retirement. so that's a weekend it's a weekend it's. a mini retirement it's where I basically. can say for three days I'm there and. I'm basically taking I don't think about. work now I will but and sometimes some. of my best my best ideas come when I'm. on these types of trips but then in six. weeks I'll have another mini retirement. for five days or four days rather than. thinking you're going to stop for six. months and sort of have a sabbatical. that's not probably going to happen with. people like you or I because we just. basically don't work that way so to have.

lots of mini retirements during the year. is what I've tried to do in the last few. years I'm not sure I'm doing it very. successfully I'm not sure what's wrong. with us if that's what you're asking is. there something wrong with us I don't. feel insecure or vulnerable I don't feel. insecure or vulnerable at all I feel. I feel I feel so confident and I feel. not confident I feel like I've got. coping mechanisms built to deal with. things so I there isn't any criticism. there's very very little criticism that. I receive now that even touches the. sides of me and I get criticized heavily.

on social media through my football. punditry my opinions whatever it may be. because of what I went through at United. losing that confidence at the age of 24. post treble going through that difficult. patch where I didn't want the ball. seeing the psychiatrist on my own only. doctor knew not talking about it till I. was 35 but what that psychiatrist gave. me was coping mechanisms and perspective. I just ask you know if I go through a. difficult moment now. I ask myself the question will I come. out of it at the side did I expect every. day to be a good day.

no I don't expect every day to be a good. day so when the bad day comes and it's a. really bad experience or you have a make. a bad business decision did you think. you would make every decision would be a. good decision in business no it wouldn't. be a good you're not going to make the. right decision every single day you're. going to have bad decisions bad choices. bad days so when they come now I can put. them into perspective and move on really. comfortably. so. I feel like I'm I don't feel vulnerable. or insecure. I'm not quite sure sometimes you know. people say I've got a strategy I've got. a plan. not quite sure any of us have really.

because the reality of it is we don't. know what door is going to open next you. don't know six years ago five years ago. that Dragons' Den is going to come and. knock on your door you don't know that. you haven't got a clue or 10 years ago. certainly you don't know that's going to. happen in your life but when the knock. on the door comes you think. I fancy walking through that door. and probably the same with me when. things have happened in my life where I. thought I didn't expect that to come. yeah I'll I'll take that. so. we are probably being dragged.

it's a little bit like jumping off you. go skiing you're off the sort of go off. the sort of black slope. you there's no way out of it you're. going down and you can't stop and it's a. little bit like you know I feel like to. be fair my life's a little bit like a. black slope a black slope in skiing you. you I've gone over the edge I've started. what can I do now slow down say to my. businesses say to the teams that I work. with sorry I don't fancy this anymore. well thanks for that but you we're here. still what what's I've got no choice. I've got no choice you've got no choice.

[laughter]. we're in. I read this book called The Body Holds. The Score and I was actually speaking to. one of my best friends yesterday who was. an extreme workaholic and then he. started having panic attacks he ends up. in hospital and he said to me he said I. felt fine. but the body goes gives out first the. body will you know when the mind is. telling you no you can cope with this. you're doing fine the body will show you. in a pretty. drastic fashion that you're not okay and. that you need to listen to to yourself. ever since you you collapsed on that day.

have you made [clears throat]. changes honestly. cuz I'm going to ask I'm going to ask. you I'm going to ask Emma. [laughter]. I did. I did I. I have I think. but then it's the actual sustain it's. sustaining the changes and not dipping. back into your old habits. that's the problem. that's to what do I do I train four five. times a week I wasn't always training. pre that. I try. I've got a sleep ring and it focuses me.

more on the time I need to sleep at. night and but then. I don't always wear it now you know it's. a couple years later it's in my bag it's. here I didn't wear it last night and I'm. annoyed with myself cuz I didn't wear it. last night cuz I forgot to put it on. when I got back. so habits really that sort of do you. drift back into your old habits. I try not to pick my phone up when I. first wake up but I feel I'm failing. miserably at that. I'm failing miserably but I have to take. an email off my phone I've taken. WhatsApp off my phone.

because they're things that I think were. emails if I think if you wake up to an. email. at 4:00 in the morning that's an email. that's not a great email let's say it's. something that you think I've got to. deal with that you aren't getting back. to sleep so I've taken email off my. phone it's only on my iPad it helps. WhatsApp I mean WhatsApp announced last. week that they were going to sort of. this idea that you you couldn't. you couldn't be joined in groups and. people didn't know when you were online. I just felt like it was an intrusion. WhatsApp I felt like people were.

attacking me a constant attack of added. to groups and they see that I'm online. and things like that. and I. oh no. get off get away from me so I just do. iMessage now. and I say to people ring me. so there have been changes that I've. made that are helpful. because I do feel email is. [sighs]. I love speaking to people so I lived in. a dressing room where the camaraderie we. didn't email each other at Manchester. United Sir Alex Ferguson didn't email me.

we had a brilliant team spirit in the. club we were there every single day we. spoke to each other. we socialized with each other we'd help. each other we knew each other. and that's how you build a team spirit. and I felt that sometimes email can be I. know it needs to happen in businesses I. know that you need to see attachments I. know you need to communicate with each. other I do believe that they can be. quite damaging to culture sometimes, particularly if the wrong tone is on the. email. I think you can be mis-. misunderstood on email. I think it can.

come across harsh. I think they can put. pressure on people. And I realized that. the first 5 years out of football, I was. emailing people 5:00 6:00 in the. morning. But you imagine, you know, you emailing. people at 5:00 6:00 in the morning, the. impact that's going to have on them when. they wake up. I've got to deal with that. I've got to. email them back. It's like, that's not. fair. It's not right. So I have made. quite a few changes, but probably not. enough. Yeah, I I completely agree. I don't I'll. be on the people this will surprise. people. I look at my emails once a week. Oh, wow. So my my assistant looks at my. inbox and then if there's she puts them.

on my list and then I go to my list when. I'm ready. And also with all my. WhatsApps and all that stuff, all. notifications off. And it's just for me. trying to take back control of my time. So I choose when I go to it. It doesn't. notify me that that it needs me now. And. I used to have email dread. Yeah. You. know, early mornings, especially when. you're running a big company, you've got. what, 600 employees or more? Yeah. There's always going to be. something wrong. There is. Yeah. doesn't care what time or occasion, it's. going to interrupt you. There's always. going to be and I don't want that. anxiety in my life. Also, if there is a problem and. something's gone wrong, then just ring.

They can call you. Yeah, ring me. Just. ring me. Anyone can ring me and just say. like I've got a problem and then we we. drop everything, don't we? I always feel. like it's the biggest responsibility I. have is to the people that I work with. And if they ring me and they're they're. in trouble, they've got a problem, we. have to deal with that. That's an. absolute immediate. You always going back to your early. years in football and as you came. through the ranks, you you always and. I've seen this in multiple interviews, kind of a little bit self-disparaging. about your own abilities. you. [laughter]. I just played with brilliant players,

didn't I? I mean, if you think about it, just go through the players who I played. with. Jaap Stam, you know, Denis Irwin, Peter Schmeichel, Roy Keane, to to David Beckham, Cristiano Ronaldo, Dwight Yorke, Eric Cantona. Every single. one of them had more talent and ability. than I did. You know, they just they just did. It. was just obvious around me. When I got. to United, the juice about insecurity, the only time that I ever felt insecure. was when I got to United at I got to. United at 11. And I joined at 11 and there was a. center of excellence group and then we. got retained every single year. But at.

14 is where it gets really serious and. they start deciding the the school boys. and the outer town lads come in. So all of a sudden, you were exposed to. them, to Beckham, to Scholes joined at. 14, all these brilliant players. And you think, how am I going to survive. here? I could just I'm aware. I know my own abilities. Um and. I had to I had to just do things. differently. I was a midfield player, then I was a center back, then ended up. at right back. You know, there is an element of truth.

in what Carragher said. No one wants to. grow up to be a Gary Neville, meaning no. one wants to grow up to be a full back. Everyone when they're a kid scores goals. or sets up goals and then you find out. that you're not good enough to do that. and you get pushed back the team. That's. what happened with me. I was one position away. That was the. last my last hope, right back. You know. what I mean? If I was out of the team if. I couldn't play right [laughter] back, I'd I'd gone from center midfield as 11. year old at United, then center back. from 14 to 18 and then told I wouldn't I. wasn't good enough by my reserve team. coach to be a center back at United cuz. Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister were. there.

And then I go to to right back. So. you are aware that you're being pushed. out of your positions by better players. and that that's your only route to. success is hard work and playing at. right back and trying to adapt to that. And then. it was good enough for me in the end, but you know, it's it's not disparaging. I I I knew the game. I I could organize. I knew the game well. I read the game well. And. um on the pitch, I would never ever I. would never give in. So the around me, this idea of being able to organize the.

team, I could see the game in front of. me. So I had an impact I believe I had. an impact on the other players that I. played with beyond my talent through my. understanding of the game and making. sure that I never stopped going and we. never stopped going. We keep going. We. just keep pushing forward. So if we're. fighting for a goal, you know, I always. think what's the I never go into this. like level of grandiosity. I probably. never said this before. When people say. to me what's the greatest moment in my. life, I say it's the final in '99 in New Camp. when we won the treble.

But that I I made a run from right back. I got the corner for the first goal. Cuz I went all I I ran sprinted over to. the left wing and took the long throw to. put it into the box. It came back out to. me and we got the corner. It's not an assist by any stretch of the. imagination. It typifies my career of. seven goals and very few assists. I'm no. Trent Alexander-Arnold or nor even a. Denis Irwin. But that I that that that you have to. find a way to win. You have to just do. everything you possibly can. You cannot. leave anything on the pitch. You just.

sprint everywhere. You just do. everything. And that to me typified what. probably I was, that I could see. something in that, you know, in terms of. how to impact a game, whether it be. through impacting someone else by. getting them going and giving them the. ball and get and keeping them at it. Um. and that's why I think he kept me there. till I was 36 cuz it wasn't through. ability at the end. He kept me there. till I was 36 just through my influence. and my impact I had in the dressing. room. I'm I'm pretty certain of that. because it wasn't through anything I was. doing on the pitch. So I'm always.

humble around my own ability because of. the talent I had around me. And that's why I get caught on Twitter. quite often people will say to me if it. hadn't have been if you hadn't have been. at Man United, you'd been a jobbing. right back somewhere at Fulham or. Bournemouth or. Maybe I would. I've never heard anyone in a higher. managerial position disagree with the. phrase that hard work beats talent when. talent doesn't work hard. Yeah, I mean, that's one thing I could. never ever. I could never ever be accused of. anything other than from the minute I.

joined at 11 to the minute I left at 36, Man United got everything out of me, everything. And to be fair, the club. gave me everything. So we we didn't owe. each other anything. Um and that's something I'm proud of. Longevity is actually probably one of. the one of the things that consistency. and longevity, being able to. consistently work hard every single day. at a good level of performance and turn. up every single day and be there is. underrated actually. And that's the. thing that to me for surviving at 25. years under Sir Alex Ferguson in that. environment of excellence and demands.

that he placed on people was, you know, it was a great achievement, but I did that with a lot less talent. than the other players in the club. When was the first time you realized. that Sir Alex Ferguson was. you you felt his influence. You felt. his mindset. You know what something in the early. days, it was the old school like head. teacher. No, he's not a head teacher by. any stretch of the imagination, but you. got a little bit of fear that you maybe. have of your father as well. If your. father sort of gets a bit angry with. you, you know, that little bit of that.

dominating male. of the '70s, '80s, '90s, probably going. back beyond that, was was apparent in. Sir Alex Ferguson that, you know, you. knew when he walked into the room, the. room went quiet. There was that. presence, that aura. The boss is here. And so you felt it straight away. When people say to me sort of, how did. you keep coming back every single year. and continue to keep winning? What was. the secret of that? It was by his actions and what what he. did. I always remember when I was 30. When did we lose the Champions League.

final? 2009, so I'd have been 34, right. near the end of my career. Uh I was doing my um. We played the Champions League final on. a Wednesday, we lost. We got back on the Friday. from Rome or Thursday or Friday. On the. Saturday, I had to go and pick up my. boots at Carrington, the training. ground. So it was a Sunday morning. I. had to go and pick up my boots at. Carrington, the training ground to go to. St. George's Park cuz I was doing my A. license coaching badge.

And it was my final assessment. And I went in at 7:00 in the morning. I'd organized to meet with the caretaker. who was basically there on site all the. time to let me in. And I parked on the back. and they his office lights on and he's. there in his chair. I thought, oh no, I don't want to see. him. We'd just lost the European Cup. final four four days ago. So I drove. around the front and went and got my. boots and moved out. But he was there. Sunday morning, 6:30 7:00, the only. person in the building with his light on. four days after we'd won the European.

Cup final. And he'd been in his mid-60s. And I thought, no one can live with that. The. That That's the reason he's winning. That's the reason he's winning cuz no. other manager, no other leader that I know, four days after that defeat in his off. time in the summer is in his office on a. Sunday morning at 6:30. And he didn't. know he didn't know I was coming in. obviously and he didn't see me either. I. just saw you could just see him in the. distance. It was. I couldn't believe it. And it just all. those sort of examples of that work. ethic.

they hit you every single day. And he. knew how to tap into here. He knew how. to get you. No matter who you were in. the dressing room. He always used to get. me. I always say this by mentioning my. He used to used to used to mention my. grandparents. What about your. grandparents? Getting up every single. day, putting their tie on, the work that. they put in, how they never complained about. anything, you know, what they must have. lived through obviously in the Second. World War. And he would say things like that in his. team talks and it would always tap into. me cuz I used to sit with my mum's dad. and look at his medals that he'd had he.

got during the Second World War. He'd. had three or four wounds. He had. shrapnel wounds in his shoulders that he. could still show me and bits and bits of. metal still in his body. And he would. talk to me about the medals and where he. got them from and how he'd been in. Holland and how he'd sort of had to come. back and then he went back over, how he. married my nan on one of his returns. back. So that used to get me every single. time. So when I used to play for United, when you think about what motivates you, what gets you going, and he used to mention say for instance. grandparents. And there's that difficult. moment on a pitch where you think, we're. struggling here a little bit.

And now I think of my youngest daughter. when I'm training. What keeps me going. to the end of that training session? I think of silly things. If I don't keep going here, someone's. going to get my youngest daughter and. I'll there's nothing going to get her, so I've got to keep going. And there is. my is was is was grandad, my mum's dad. And I used to think he wouldn't he. wouldn't stop going. He came back having. been wounded twice and trapped in the. wounds twice and went back out. to fight again. And he had those medals and he would. speak to me about it.

And I used to think how can I stop? But. he would tap He would find that in me. Sir Alex would push He would push those. buttons and press those buttons. For. someone else, it would become something. completely different, I'm sure. It might be talking about the father. It. might be talking about him going on. strike in the government shipyards. It. might be talking about another. experience that he's had, but he would. tap into everybody in the dressing room. in some way that would mean they'd find. something. to mean they would never give in. And. that's what he You know, his film's. called Never Give In. He never gave in. But also the influence he had on others.

never to give in through finding. something in them was was incredible. Rio talked to me a lot about culture and. the culture that Sir Alex Ferguson said. everyone said the same thing. Having. left football now and working in the. world of business, you might must be. looking back on the culture he created. Yeah. And in some ways drawing a lot from that. in your own businesses, right? What. What have you learned about the. importance of culture? Because There was. this comment Rio made to me on the. podcast that I've never forgotten, which. is about Sir Alex Ferguson's like lack. of presence at the training ground. Rio.

said he only came into the training. ground training room dressing ground a. couple of times because he didn't need. to. The culture was in there. Yeah. And. then Rio talked about how then when Rio. went and moved on to another club, in. that same dressing room players are. talking about how much money they're. making and then all of these other. things which would never have happened. at United. No. How How does How does one create that. culture? I suppose. being grounded. He was grounded and he believed in the. sort of the work Work ethic was. everything to him. Being proud Being.

proud to work hard. Being proud of the. people around you work hard. Uh being proud of your teammates. He. used to say, "Look around the changing. room. Look around. I'm proud of every. single one of you, but look at each. other. Look at what you each do for each. other on the pitch and how you can't. achieve what you're going to achieve. without each other." So he made us. respect each other. Not everybody got on. in our changing room, but most of us. did. Um. but he tapped into those things all the. time. It It It was It was It was. non-stop and being grounded. um looking after people. Little things.

like when Wendy used to get the charity. balls signed. Um and Roy Keane was like this as well. So Wendy every Thursday would have 30 to. 40 charity balls that we would sign and. then they would go to the children's. charities or the different charities in. Greater Manchester or in the country. And sometimes you're in a rush, aren't. you? You're a football player. You're. young. Ah, Wendy, I'll sign them after. I'm just I'm going to have a massage. I've got to go and do my stretching. I've got to have a massage. I've got to. go and have treatment. Whatever it might. be that you say on the way in to. poor excuse that you'd give. Or maybe.

you just generally did. And there was. one day where he basically, I think Roy. had walked past Wendy. She was a little. bit upset and only five players out of. the 23 in the squad had signed the. balls. And Roy went upstairs and said to Sir. Alex, "It's an absolute disgrace. This. has happened a couple of weeks now.". He killed us. He absolutely killed us. The lack of respect. to to walk past Wendy, who was there to. get the charity balls signed and not. sign them for her, for him was a a.

dereliction of duty. It was a lack of. respect. It's not what you do. We're equal in this football club. We. treat each other equally. We look after. one another. We make sure that we're. sort of compassionate. And the idea of. not doing things like that, little. things like that um I think just little. things like that stand out in my mind. So now sometimes I walk into the. businesses and you know what we're like. We sometimes walk in on our phone and we. don't say hello to people because we're. that immersed in our own blinkered sort. of space. But then I'll walk past sometimes and.

I'll realize I've not said hello to. someone. I'll go back and say, "I'm. really sorry." And I'll I'll you know, I'll say, "How are you okay?" And. I do feel like even when in the office. there is no. I sit next to people in the office. I. don't sort of have my own glass tower. Yeah, I don't I don't I I make sure I go. and sit in Cafe Football in the hotel or. I go and sit in the main restaurant at. Stocks or at Salford. I'll just go and. sit in the main office because the idea. that basically we don't He was He did. have his own office and he did have his. own space. And he did, to be fair, delegate and he would keep his But I So.

I don't think I'm I'm like Sir Alex in. the way in which I now. look at my business because I do believe. it's very different now. Um. but he was very The staff loved him. Everybody loved him at the club because. he protected them. He knew everybody's. name. He asked about the families. He knew the. families' names. He He was really, really attentive. He's He was far better. than I am. Far better than that than. that than I am. But I probably, to be. fair, mix with my teams more than he. maybe would. So.

but the work ethic is the thing. Honestly. the only thing you can ever do in life. is work as hard as you possibly can and. never give in. And he said, "You've got that choice. every single day." Really simple. That's. it. The talent you've got you just work. as hard as you can every single day and. never give in and then you come back the. day after and do it again. And that's. it. That's the secret to what he. believed cuz he said the talent. is his problem. Forget talent. I've chosen you to be. here, so I'm telling you you've got the. talent. Don't you worry about that bit. What I need back in return is that other.

bit, which is the the focus, the. commitment, the dedication to make sure. every single day you get up and you're. here and you give your all and you don't. give in. And that's why I think I stayed. where I was because I believed in him. I. trusted in him. And now it's the same. If someone comes into our business. and they've been selected to come in, that's because I believe they've got the. talent or someone in our senior. management team believe they've got the. talent. All they have to do in return. now is go for it and give their all and. be enthusiastic and not give in and then. come back the day after and do it again. And I I keep it try and keep it as.

simple as that. I know there's a lot. more to it than that, but it is. it was that simple for us. I know that. then there's the tactics, then there's. the decision-making. Then there's the the sort of conscience, all the things that go with it, but that. was the sort of heart, I think, of every. all the messaging that we got from him. They almost seem like old-fashioned. values. What you're saying. It. It almost sounds, and I'm going to be. honest, it almost sounds like. what the modern-day professional culture. might consider to be a little bit toxic. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. This.

this drive for hard work, but I have to. say I've never sat here with anybody. that's reached the peak of their powers. in their career that hasn't said the. same. But now, if I'm in my businesses. so I don't things like. I I don't have I'd never work the first. week in January. I think it's the most depressing week of. the year. After Christmas you've had a. high and then you go back. It's dark. It's miserable that first week. So I. always take it off, but I always give. the rest of our team in the office that.

I work in off as well. So I don't make people do what I'm not. going to do. I'm going away I think in 3. weeks for 5 days and I said to everybody. in the office, "Don't worry about the. fact you've got 28 days in your. contract. Those 5 days you're off. Have. the last 5 days off of the summer, then. we'll go for it to Christmas.". Also people have flexible working. They. can come in Monday. They don't have to. come in Tuesday. They can come in. Wednesday. I trust them to do what they. want. So there is an element of yeah, I. want hard I do expect hard work, but I. also want people to have a brilliant.

time and share in the success that we. have, but also make sure that if I'm off. I would expect that they have those. times off as well. I wouldn't expect. them to come in. Uh I don't I hate the. idea of a of a work package. Just got. like you've got 25 days holiday. You. have to book it in. I hate that. I hate. the idea of restriction. I hate it. I feel like it's bullying. You must sit there in the office. I hate. it. It's not right. It is not right. Don't tell people where to sit, how to.

work. You know, obviously there is a. direction and there is a leadership. that's needed, but I just feel it's. really not acceptable. But you know, this this was pre-COVID. Mhm. Our office. is like, to be fair, this this this room. that we're in here now. Mhm. So someone. could be sat there. Someone could be sat. there. Someone could be sat on the floor. over there with a with. you know, on a laptop. That's how it. should be in an office. It should always. be like that, I think. I don't think it. needed I don't think it ever I don't. think you needed COVID to make modern. business act properly with the teams. that they work with. So I.

I do feel it's very different than how. we were at United, which is. old-fashioned value. There's still some. old-fashioned values. You have to work. hard. You have to get the job done. We. know that. But why do you have to say. that to people? I think people know they have to work. hard and get the job done. So why do you. have to say that to them? You're looking to tap into them, make. something unique in your business that. makes them want to stay, really. That's. what you saw. You make You want to make. it enjoyable. Mhm. And that. [clears throat] can still be enjoyable. through hard work. I think. I think it's quite enjoyable working in. our Yeah. [laughter]. I don't know what everyone else thinks.

No, well, I know people that work for. you, obviously, cuz you know, we've got. a got a got a colleague that used to. work for me that works for you now and. they're all very, very complimentary. So. that's supported [laughter] by that's. supported by the evidence that I have. Um but you're right. I I've always found. that the contradiction there is trust. You're saying to your team members to. trust you, but you're not trusting them. And trust I feel like has to go both. ways. And so And there's And the other. what what ends up happening when you. have those, in my experience, those very. rigid rules, is you'll get compliance, but you won't get like motivation. And. as you've described it, you want people.

to be internally driven, not compliant. because of punishment. Yeah. And that. gets the best out of people, right? It's interesting because. um. Valencia taught me a lot, but around. that time I was with England coaching. with Roy Hodgson. Um and I'd lived at. United where we were We were fined. You. know, Nunez got sent off last night for. headbutting. Anderson. That's two weeks' wages at. Manchester United. I got fined two. weeks' wages regularly, four, five. times. It happens football. It's wouldn't. happen in a normal workplace, but we.

know Sir Alex Ferguson's rules. If you. violent conduct or. chatting back to a referee. you get fined. It's fact. He You accept. it. People think Sir Alex Ferguson was. like get after the referees, but if we. actually got booked for having a go at a. referee, we would get fined. So, very. much quite a rigid thing. And then Roy. Hodgson said something to me when I was. with England. I I and I felt those all. standards were slipping a little bit one. time. I can't remember exactly what it. was about. And I said, "We need some rules.".

Cuz I had a we'd had a code of conduct. at United. I was the players' rep. I. knew what the the sort of standards. were. And he said to me, "We don't set rules.". He said, "Be very careful with rules.". Uh he said, "Because it's always the. people that you don't want to break them. that break them.". I thought, "That's quite clever, that.". And. ever since, there are no rules. There are no rules in our business in. terms of you must behave, you must do. this, you must wear that, you must you. know, I don't expect formality in in. dress. I don't I expect people to be.

comfortable. So, I don't say, "You. should wear this or you should be here. at that time or we should we've got to. do that." In any part of my business, I. don't create rules anymore. Because once. you create rules, for start, it's rigid. I don't believe. it's right. And the rules are there that. they're unwritten actually. The rules of. sort of working hard and turning up and. doing your job. All the things that that. they're the rules are there just they. just don't have to be written down. Um and. you know, he said, "What happens if your. star player walks in. that's breaking cuz you know, you know, the ones that you know, we were talking. about that were setting the low.

standards.". He said, "What happens if one of the. star player walks in and we need to work. with the players to make sure that they. understand what we expect of them and. the standards. We don't need to set. rules because if you set rules and. consequence and punishment, then it'll be the one that you don't. want to break them and then you're in a. big. you know, you're in big trouble. So, it. was it was a good lesson for me. And in. football, it's very much a different. place than a normal workplace anyway. It. doesn't live by HR rules, a football. dressing room. It doesn't.

It doesn't you know, players are still. getting fined. Players still get told where to be, when. to turn up, what to wear. We like it as well. I still like it now actually. I I like. it to be told what to do. I actually. like it at Sky when people say to me, "Gary, we're doing this." You know, I. like being told what to I respond to it. really well cuz I've had it to be fair. but I've been instructed from Eric. Harrison, Nobby Stiles, Brian Kidd, Sir. Alex Ferguson. I've been instructed. I. lived through the '70s and '80s. You. could not live through the '70s and '80s. as a child, early '90s, without being.

instructed cuz that was the form of. leadership. So, we still respond to it a. little bit in our own lives, but then. when I think about my children, I don't. instruct them. I like independent thinking. I like. them. So, when people talk about social. media or when people talk about, you. know, I I was sat with someone yesterday. who said, "I'm I'm fearing my. my children going on social media." I I. I always say to them, "Your children. should get good at social media really. quickly because they have to. They have to. They have to be good at. it.". So, my children are 13 years of age now.

They're both they're all obsessed with. social media, with the apps. They're on. it all the time. And you know, sometimes. we'll say, you know, "That's enough. tonight." And you know, let's. come off it, but I want them to get good. at it. I want them to use it and find out what. information they can trust and what they. can't trust. I use Twitter now all the. time for my well, one. to have a debate. good at it, to be fair. But also to actually my news my major. source of news is Twitter. It's my major source of news in my life.

It's really helpful. I don't think as a. sports journalist, broadcaster, I could. live without Twitter. It's really important to me. So, when. people say at Twitter is a cesspit, get. off it, there are elements of it that. are, but that's that's a really. important thing for me in my life. Because I find all the sort of articles, all the sort of opinions, you know, all the breaking news is. there. How can I live without that? It's what I. rely upon to be able to do my job. So, when I come off the pitch last. Saturday Sunday doing Manchester United. so doing West Ham Man City and I see.

Manchester United have bid for. Arnautovic, I used to have to wait till. the morning after for the newspaper 15. years ago. Our children aren't like that. anymore. They want things instantly. They see things quickly. And they don't. like to be instructed. We have to collaborate with them. Mhm. There's an inevitability you're. completely right to social media and the. internet and digital that will actually. I believe as well will serve as a. disadvantage to them if they if they. don't keep up because you can't think of. a profession these days that doesn't. involve social media or the internet.

So, you're you're you know, in in an. effort to try and protect children. sometimes, we actually cause them a. pretty substantial career disadvantage. It should be taught at schools. It. should be it on the curriculum. Social media, how to use it, when to. what to use it for, how to get good at. it. The dangers. The dangers of it. It should be. something that's taught It's got to be. more useful to them than some of the. subjects that they're currently being. taught in 2022. Yeah. You you know when you and this is I mean. this is not a nice topic to talk about.

cuz we're both Manchester United fans. But through all you've been through in. the era you grew up in and all of those. famous influences you had that instilled. those values in you, um and even the early initiations you. had in that dressing room from the. senior players and you know, I I read. about all of that stuff as well. When. you look at what's going on at the club. today, even though you're not you're not. in the dressing room, you must have a. pretty pretty strong hypothesis as to. why Manchester United in 2022 are. failing based on what you experienced.

Yeah, I think it lack it comes down to a. lack of leadership and direction from. the top and vision and um a. deterioration of the sort of. beliefs over a long period of time. I said last night actually that um a. school that's underperforming over a. long period of time and getting poor. results. gets put in special measures by Ofsted. and by government. And they're not blaming the kids. It. means that the governors, it means that. the sort of the head teachers, the. people at the top of the organization at.

the school have not basically set the. standards for those children and they've. let the school basically rot and the. results become poor. I think that's. what's happened at United. It was a high-performing school. The head teacher has left. The board of the governors left, David. Gill. And what's happened since is that. they've been replaced with people who. haven't got it. And poor standards. have just meant that ultimately over a. period of time there's become an. embedded rot. And that's what's happened. And also.

that the kids, the players. look now like they haven't got a clue. anymore and they're getting poor. results. I don't believe all those. Manchester United players that are on. that pitch are poor players. When they. came to the club, some of those players, I was really excited by their arrivals. And I've seen players that weren't as. good as them go to other clubs and. excel. So, the environment, the culture, the. yeah, the enthusiasm that you need to go. into work every single day, I don't. believe has been created by the. hierarchy at the club. And then there's.

been a sort of a. a. lack of investment into the facilities, into the stadium, into the training. ground. So, now Tottenham, Liverpool. Liverpool now Liverpool for buyers to. laugh when he used to go to Anfield when. I used to compare it to Old Trafford. I. used to they can never catch up. They're. too far behind. They're just building that second stand. now behind that left-hand goal where the. away fans sit. We saw it last night towering up. The. main stand now is towering up and it. holds I don't know how many it holds. 20,000. Anfield will be a more modern ground.

than Manchester United and Old Trafford. in 12 months. That is unforgivable. From to to think where not only have. they overtaken us on the pitch, but actually they've overtaken us off. the pitch. Manchester City are light. years ahead on and off the pitch. Tottenham have invested 1.3 billion in. stadium. Have you Have you been to a. Tottenham stadium? Oh, yeah. It's out of this world. It's a. it's a One of the best in the world. museum. It's the best in the world. I I. can't believe what I'm walking through. when I see it. And yet if you go to. their training ground, which I've been. to, it's an amazing brilliant facility.

that is far better than Carrington where. we moved to in 2001. [snorts]. We moved to to Carrington so in 2000 we. moved to Carrington. We left The Cliff. training ground in Salford. So, 22 years. we've had a bit of investment, but in 20. years Manchester United have not. invested in the stadium. They've not. invested in the training ground that. much. And then they've lost. the two main people and before you know. it, you've got a club that's really. struggling. And I've said that in the last couple of. years, the only thing that I really do. think can change it now is the is is the.

ownership. And. I say that on here more calmly than I. say on Sky Sports, but it's it's not an. emotive subject anymore. It's a very. serious issue. There is an embedded rot. at the club. You know that they're walking past. Wendy's balls now, don't you? Do you know what I mean? No. Is in like signing Wendy's balls. Yeah, sorry. It's solidified for me. Yeah. caring about values in every. single touch point. Even the small. stuff. Yeah. And so I I was thinking. then I I can almost imagine now those. small expressions of our values as you. said they come from the top down are.

probably now being messed. And it's. funny cuz as fans we look at the thing. we go, "Oh, he's not running fast. enough." Or we'll blame this player or. Fred or this player whatever. But when. you've when you've worked for me when. I've worked in an organization, I. realized that the values, the culture, everything starts from the top. And if. you bring in great And as we've seen at. Manchester United, you can bring in the. best stars into a bad culture, they'll. become bad performers. And um I always I always said in a. business context as well, if the culture. is strong enough, new people become the. culture. If the culture is weak, the. culture becomes the new people.

It's why I was kept at the age of 33 to. 36 in the dressing. you were a disciple of the culture. Because because Rafael da Silva from. Brazil comes in, I'm the right back. that's the senior right back. And who does he look to? He looks to me. He looks to. Paul Scholes. He looks to Rio Ferdinand. And he sees people that are at the very. top of the game. They're experienced. They're end of their careers. That's why. I looked at Steve Bruce and Bryan Robson. and Eric Cantona. I had nowhere to go as. a young player. I knew I had to do what. they had to do else cuz they were all.

doing it every single day and they'd. been doing it for 15 years. I do feel sorry for the current players. and that won't go down well with a lot. of Man United fans cuz a lot of Man. United fans will say they're overpaid. and they're chancing it and bluffing it. They're not. They're not. I know some of. those lads, they're good lads. If they. were sat here now with me and you, you'd. be thinking there's an element of. vulnerability there. There is a lack of confidence. They're crying out for help. I wish they had Sir Alex. I wish they. had Roy Keane in the changing room.

with Nemanja Vidić and Rio Ferdinand at. center back and Peter Schmeichel in. goal. Because if they did, they would grow, they would thrive, they. would but deliver. If the Man United team today. was David de Gea in goal, Patrice Evra at left back, Harry Maguire at center back. with. Varane. It was me at right back. In midfield, there was Roy Keane and Michael Carrick.

On the left was Marcus Rashford, on the. right was Jadon Sancho. Up front was Martial. with. Rooney or Hughes. Those same five or six players that. we're currently saying can not are not. not not good enough to play for Man. United, they would be outstanding. if Sir Alex Ferguson was the manager, if the culture was still there. It's I don't honestly I I. that might be.

I don't even know what I've just said to. be fair. I've not said it before. You. know what I'm trying to say. It's just. surround yourself by those people who've. got those standards, who've got that. experience, who can cradle you through. the difficult moments like we were when. we young players, when we won when. people said we won the league with kids, we didn't. We wouldn't have won the. league without the experienced players. in that dressing room around us and the. guidance of Sir Alex Ferguson. They've not got that guidance off the. pitch and they've not got that guidance. and comfort on the pitch. I used to walk. out in the tunnel. with Peter Schmeichel in front of me,

Roy Keane in front of him. Behind me obviously David Beckham always. went behind me but Denis Irwin in front. of me. I felt safe. I was 21, 22, 23. years of age. I felt safe. I felt comfortable cuz I knew I was. being looked after by experienced. people. I knew that I was wasn't alone. These players go out onto the pitch now, they feel alone. They don't feel like. they've got anybody. That's where I am a. little bit critical of Cristiano. You're the man. You're the star. You're the You're the best player in the. world. Come on. Now's not the time for you.

throwing your arms around. Now's not the. time to be walking off the pitch. Now's. the time to make sure you lead those. people. But he wants to leave. He wants. to go and play somewhere else and that. might happen and who could blame him? He. wants to finish his career at a club. that's achieving great things but. I I do think he is the only player in. that dressing room that could lead them. cuz he's the only one that's got the. inbuilt resilience and mental strength. to get through a moment like It won't be. touching him this. Other than on a. personal frustration level, the fact.

that that he's playing in a team that. isn't giving him the chances, the goals, the success he wants, but on a point of. view of criticism, he won't be touching. him. He's just He's seen He's played at Real. Madrid, he's played at Man United, he's. won five, six Champions Leagues, he's. won Ballon d'Or. He's not You can't. touch him with the criticism or words. It's impossible. So he can withstand all. this pressure and protect those players. on the pitch. That's what I think Roy. Keane did with us, what Peter Schmeichel. did, what Cantona did, what Robson did. They protected us. If I took prime. Cristiano Ronaldo when he came in from.

Portugal and I put him in today's team, he'd struggle. He'd struggle. I think he really would. struggle without Sir Alex's guidance, without the patience of Sir Alex and. Carlos Queiroz who had that patience. with him at the time. Do you think his. career would look entirely different? look different. You know, you speak to Paul Gascoigne. and ask Paul Gascoigne when he chose. Tottenham over Man United and he says. that if he'd have come to Manchester and. work with Sir Alex, he feels as though. his career and his life would have gone.

down a different path. And that's why I. said at the very start of this interview. why am I like I am. I was very fortunate. that I wasn't in the center of London at. 22 being led by experienced players who. wanted to go to night clubs or to bars. I was in Manchester. with Denis Irwin and Sir Alex Ferguson. and Roy Keane and Mark Hughes and Bryan. Robson who don't get me wrong, they. liked a night out but they knew also. that that had to come at the right time. and they would be responsible and make. sure you delivered on the pitch.

So I feel blessed and privileged by the. influences that I had in my life. We. talk about influences now in a different. way, don't we? But actually we're heavily influenced by. the people that we come into contact. with and that's where your luck comes in. in life cuz I can't choose who I come. into contact with. in life. You know, you you walk into a. business to take a job, you don't know. if there's 150 people in the business. There could be some really good people. in there that influence you well and. make it really comfortable for you or. there could be some bad eggs that mean. that you have to have a bad experience. and influences in a different way. I.

just got really lucky throughout my. career that I arrived at United when. they started winning the Premier League. And then obviously I had a brilliant. manager. I had brilliant senior players. I had good parents. Everything was right in my life to. influence me to be what I am today. Without that, I'm not the person I am. I. wasn't Gary Neville resilient, tough, mentally strong, could handle anything, better work ethic. than anybody else when I was 10. I. wasn't. I was a kid just to be fair. going to school like everyone else. But I had exceptional people around me,

I believe, that helped me and I don't. believe these lads now in that dressing. room have got that around them or they. haven't got that around them. I had a a thought cross my mind for the. first time ever this week. And as a Man. United. to go down. Well, [laughter] I grew up. My birthday year was 1992. So I've only. ever known great times at Man United. pretty much and it was the first time. that I played out the scenario in my. head that it's not guaranteed that we. return to being champions. It's all I've. ever known. And it was the first time. that I started doing the equation of.

like how do great clubs fall? And this. is one of the years where I've seen one. of the real catalysts is Okay, so the. brand starts to deteriorate, they lose. commercial deals, then great players. like Haaland and Núñez. don't choose the club. Then we So we. can't get great talent. We then don't. have the money to get the great talent. at an inflated price which we could have. paid in in the first couple of years. after the downfall. And then I'm. thinking, okay, so this could we could. there's there's a chance. and I hate to say it cuz I'm an eternal. optimist. It's embarrassing but every.

year when we do our little score. predictions in my football chat, I'm. like, "We're going to win the league.". every year. [laughter]. For the last three years I've I'm. deluded. But this was the first time I. entertained the thought that we might. It's not guaranteed that we return. to the club we were. Um I I I put us in. the top four every I did it last week in. my predictions. But you know something, I know full well we're not going to. finish in the top four but I have to. just because it's the Man United inbuilt. thing that you say we're going to finish. in the top four. But that's how our. expectations have dipped as well because. we used to say we're going to finish. top. Yeah. Um.

No, I'm convinced Man United will. return. Absol- absolutely convinced. Why? It's not arrogance this and it's not. because I'm biased and it's not because. I've gone to watch the club since the. age of five. I've traveled around the world with the. club. for the last 30, 40 years. I've. seen the extent of the fan base, the. emotion that exists within the fan base, the scale of the club. and it's too the foundations are too. deep. But those foundations were created.

because of like generational success. Yeah, but we had a we had obviously the. you had we had the Busby Babes period. with Sir Matt Busby. Then we had 30. years, 25 years before Sir Alex brought. home a league title. So we've had 25. years before that we've gone through. without success. Man United. um is not going away. It's not going It's too big. It's too. big, it's too magical, it's too good. That is not That is not emotion that. That is just You I I I feel very, very. strongly about that that is There is an.

element of cycle here. that you know, we're getting sort of our. down period. But we shouldn't accept. that because I'm happy to lose football. matches. I'm happy to be fourth in the. league, third in the league, sixth in. the league if we're doing the right. things. So, have we got a world Man. United should always have a world class. stadium. It hasn't. It should always have best in. class training facility. It should. always have best in class fan. experience. It should always buy the. best being for the best players in the. Premier League. It should always have. young talent coming through and it. should always buy should always buy.

young emerging talent from overseas. It's veered away from all five or six of. its key principles and objectives that. it's always ever had. Any business does. that then it's in trouble. You've got. owners that to be fair are now taking. dividends out of the club. They're. taking big large payments in debt out of. the club or interest payments on debt. out of the club. All the money that the. club generates to be fair is not going. back into the club. and it's now come home to roost. They. only own 69, 70% of the club and they. need a billion quid to be able to. fulfill those infrastructure projects.

that are needed. Their walls are closing. in on them. and they do need to do something big. through partnership or through an. investor or through a. a sale in the next I think 6 to 12. months. This cannot go on. That was a. watershed moment at Brentford on. Saturday. What we were all experiencing. in that stadium and I didn't obviously. know you were in the stadium at that. time but now I know you were and you. said you were just compelled to stay cuz. you couldn't leave. Everybody that I. spoke into was like, "I've not seen.

too many things like that in 30 years of. Premier League football." And actually I. never want Man United to lose. But actually it could have been an. important moment and a and a big moment. where you actually start to think like. you're thinking. Could we you know, people have said. could we be relegated? I said last night. on television, if we bring poor players. in in this next couple of weeks or don't. bring players in. and Cristiano does leave which I think. he may, we could finish in the bottom half of. the table. with a 1.25 billion pound transfer spend. in the last 8 to 10 years.

and finish in the bottom half of the. table. And so we are starting to think that. way, but I've no doubt it's going to. return. It's It's It's too big. It's too. good. It's. fan base is too great. It's It's. enormous. It's It's I go I've been a. I've been abroad and watched 15 50,000. people watch us train in Thailand and in. Malaysia and in Singapore. And I've seen. Manchester the passion still for the. club is huge. And so it it's still full. now. Yeah. It's just I just get. concerned that if you know, there's. another generation that are growing up.

without the the experience I had. And. who are they going to choose in terms of. you know We'll lose some. Yeah. We'll. lose some. We have to lose some on the. way. There will be some collateral. damage. Depends how long we go through. this. If this is two decades, then. that's a whole generation that never saw. what we saw growing up. So City. City have done brilliant things. Pep. Guardiola is a genius. The football is. mesmerizing. The operation is slick. Um. But. I say this because it will bring, you. know.

criticism from probably some football. fans and certainly from Manchester City. fans. It will never ever be Manchester United. And that's not arrogance. It just cannot. be. What won't? Manchester City. It can. never to replace Manchester United in. terms of scale and size. It can win. trophies. It can win more trophies, but. it can never be bigger in scale and. size. It's impossible. It does not have. the roots, the history. the It just does not have it. Manchester. United is too set. We'll see. I'm I'm not I'm not worried. about the long term. I'm very worried.

about the short term. Um What One of the things that people. don't know about you, I believe, because. I was I'm you know, I'm fairly well read. on on what you do, but I didn't realize. this, is just the scale of your kind of. business portfolio. It's It's quite honestly mental. [snorts]. I don't do all of the. the media stuff that you do. I'm not, you know, on on TV all the time. presenting football. I'm not in that. arena. And when I look at your business. portfolio and mine, I'm going this guy. does as much as I do from a business.

perspective. But you're not you're not. known to the world first and foremost as. an entrepreneur. Maybe that's the second. thing. People know you as a football. legend. Second Second thing will be. entrepreneur. And the second thing is. you don't even like the word. entrepreneur. Not really, no. I don't. I suppose it's like broadcast I don't. like the word broadcaster. Maybe it's. like Maybe that is an insecurity. actually or a vulnerability. People say to me, "You're a. broadcaster." But I say, "I don't feel. like a broadcaster. I don't feel like. I've earned, you know, I feel like. Martin Tyler. or. um you know, Des Lynam. They're.

broadcasters. They're journalists. They've They're. experienced. They do it. I don't feel. like a broadcaster cuz I feel still feel. young, but I'm not young anymore that. really in terms of been doing it now for. 11 12 years. And same with entrepreneur. If you If I always feel there's. something a little bit Can I swear? Of. course you can. You swear all the time. It feels a little bit wankerish. Yes. [laughter] To say I'm an entrepreneur. Gary Neville Gary Neville CEO and. entrepreneur is like No. Gary Neville. chairman of the Relentless Group and. entrepreneur No. Makes me sort of skin crawl a little. bit. But I think to be fair, probably I.

should start calling myself that because. I do have The There is one constant. They're all in Greater Manchester. Mhm. Apart from a media career which can. sometimes obviously be in London. But. they're all in Greater Manchester in. Salford, Trafford, Manchester city. center. And I feel very focused around my. investments in that area. Some people. would say. that's naive. You should expand beyond. Greater Manchester. No, I'm passionate. about where I come from, where I live, and I want to invest back in to that. part of the country. So the two hotels, the football club, the develop the big. developments that we're doing, the.

university um. the project management consultancy, all. of them in Greater Manchester. Um and I. want to continue to do things. I don't. think I'll do many more startups. Although the overlap is a startup. But I. just startups are hard. Do you think. startups are hard? Oh, they're so. painful. It's. [laughter]. They're rewarding, but the pain I mean. all of mine have been startups. Right. So apart from Salford which to be fair. is a bit of a startup. It was like. eighth tier. They had 170 fans. They're. all startups. So not one of them has. been sort of a business that I bought. into.

I'm not sure that that's that's the way. I like it cuz we can influence them. And we can make them our you know, our. culture can come into the sort of. businesses. Um But yeah, I I wanted to do a lot in. business, but in Greater Manchester. build teams. It's the teams part of it. that gives me great satisfaction. And. then. Yeah, I love the sectors that I'm in. And it's crazy cuz you when I look at. your businesses, when I've looked. closely at them, you run really. good. businesses as it relates to attention to.

detail. Your hotel in Manchester, the. Stock Exchange Hotel, I have to say. is by far my favorite hotel. It's not. even close. When I filmed Dragon's Den. the first year, um all the dragons. stayed at the Lowry. [laughter]. Even though it was my first year, I was. like, "Please guys, stay at the Stock. Exchange Hotel." And I stayed there. It's by far and away there's nothing. close to it in Manchester in my view. No. And I have to say some of my So the. university I think is more of a social. project. They're trying to be more. inclusive and sort of remove the. barriers to higher education. The. football club started off as a sort of a. a more of a social project in terms of.

bringing young players through and. believing in young talent in football. like we've been believed in. But then I. also have this other side of me which is. I want to raise standards. And we wanted hospitality to be the. highest level in Manchester. And the. Stock Exchange was my ambition to create. the number one hotel, premium hotel in. Manchester, luxury hotel. The same with. the development St. Michael's which we. hope to be the new number one hotel in. Manchester when it's built, a new. five-star hotel. Manchester only has one. five-star hotel in the city center. Those Lowry's in Salford, but they only. have one five-star hotel.

So then some people will throw at me. you know, how does that sit with your. sort of social conscience that you've. got these sort of expensive apartments, you've got these expensive hotel rooms, you charge 40 pounds for a steak? And I'm like. I think it's okay to be offended by. Manchester. not having enough affordable housing. And also not having. high-class luxury accommodation and. luxury product. I'm offended by both. Why does Manchester all have to be sort. of pigeonholed into this three four-star.

market? So this idea that in Manchester. is that you know, and I get called. champagne socialist sometimes. And. sometimes get criticized for the fact. that I have a university that is trying. to improve. you know, inclusion and and and and and and and. access to higher education. But then Oh, Neville, he's just basically selling. developments. You know, he's he's he's. selling apartments for five 600,000. pounds. He's He's you know, his rooms. are 250 300 pounds at Hotel Football or. at Stock Exchange.

But I'm offended by the fact that we. can't raise the standards at sort of the. highest level and the fact that we can't. look after people and make sure that. everyone's got the sort of a house to be. able to live in that's of a comfortable. size and in in the area they want to. live. So I feel that I'm. um a little bit torn between my projects. and what I feel. But I want high. standards in our city. I want Man. I'm offended that Manchester does not. have. five-star. international standard hotels. It. offends me that London always has to.

have these things or that Paris you. know, why do people from Manchester have. to go to Paris or London to experience. five-star hospitality. and service. We should be able to get it. in our city. So I want to drive. investment into our city. um and raise the standards as That was. That was what the Stock Exchange was. about, raising standards of hospitality. And we got to number one. Which was. brilliant. I mean it's But you're right. because if there isn't that a supply. there for the high end, then the economy. is going to suffer because you're right.

It won't attract business. It won't. attract um investment into the city if. you know, if And that's you know. I love coming to Manchester because I. you didn't pay me to say this, but I. love going staying at the Stock Exchange. Hotel. It's better than my house. And at the standards there are, you. know, unbelievable. Politics. You've become quite um political. specifically on Twitter in terms of. social issues and using your voice to. shed lights on shed a light on things. that you feel like are going wrong in. politics. Mhm. What is the thinking. there? I just I think I think it's Look,

the thinking is that I don't think it. it's not acceptable to be quiet anymore. if you're in a position of influence. And if you're seeing something that's. wrong. It's like your stance on the. Glazers. Yeah. I think it's got to the. point whereby I was I was quiet when I. played at the club. And to be fair, we. were winning. So you think, "Well, okay. Winning to be fair covers everything.". And then when you leave, you think, "Well, hang on a second. You know, let's. let them have time after Sir Alex. Ferguson." But it's got to the point now. whereby. I can't keep my mouth shut on it. It's. wrong. It is just wrong. Same with uh. with with Johnson. Eventually his own.

party got to the same position that I. was at and many others. It's wrong. We. cannot have someone like that leading. our country. I'm passionate about our. country. Are you ever going to do. politics? No, I won't do politics. And. the reason I say that is that you know, sometimes you have this idea in your. head, don't you, that you think could. you go in? But the reality of it is it. means that I wouldn't be able to be as. honest as I am on television. I wouldn't. be able to do the Sky Sports. I wouldn't. be able to do the media. I won't be able. to do my projects in Manchester cuz I'd. feel conflicted with different things. And. I don't think I can I think I'm more.

I think I can have a greater influence. in Greater Manchester. and with my voice in the media than I. would do being an MP for Bury South. I. genuinely believe that. I think I get. caught up and stuck in the treacle and. the mud like everybody else. That's what people say about politics. Just go in and you just get stuck. Um and I don't want to be stuck. I want. to be able to try and influence things. in the private sector away from public. sector. And we'll get called a champagne. socialist for it. And we'll get attacked. heavily in the last 12 months.

by people from the right side of. um the country in terms of you know, like regular every single day we'll get. attacked for being a champagne socialist. when I talk about say for instance the. Stock Exchange or I talk about um you. know, the St. Michael's development. And. then they say, "Well, how can you. be arguing against Boris Johnson? And. how can you be arguing How can you be in. the Labour Party?" There's this idea. that you can't be in the Labour Party. and be entrepreneurial and be successful. and earn money. That the Labour Party have got to change.

that perception. They've got to change that perception. How is it that you cannot be someone who. owns a business, makes profit, hands. that profit back to its shareholders, and to the teams that you work with, create a great environment for them to. work, pay them well, and that you. believe everybody should have an equal. opportunity. How can you not be Labour. and have those principles? Because we've. been basically. conditioned to think that it's only the. Tory Party that is good for business, and the Labour Party has created that. It's so true. It's one of the things.

that's really made me feel quite. disenfranchised. I grew up with in a. Labour family that I mean, I've never. voted Tory in my life, but in recent. years, as I've become more um successful. in my career, I almost feel a little bit. sometimes by some people, not everybody. on the left, but some people on the. left, that I'm inherently evil because. of my success. Like I'm inherently a bad. person because I'm an entrepreneur or. CEO. And that that pushes you out. It. almost pushes you into this middle. I'm. not going over to the right, but and I. want to belong somewhere. So, you're. completely right, and I don't think. that's talked about enough. I was so I.

saw an interview on social yesterday. I. was actually been in the middle of. Monday Night Football, and it was an. interview It was only released. yesterday. It was with Keir Starmer, and. the gentleman asking him said, you know, "What do you earn?" And he said, "I earn. 130,000 pounds a year.". And he was about to start a line of. questioning around Keir's position on. um energy, and the fact that well, you. can afford the 3,000 pounds, 4,000 pound. energy bills this year. I was offended by that line of. questioning. The leader of the. opposition in this country, politicians,

in my opinion, should be the highest quality. of business people and entrepreneurs to. be able to deliver. the the plan and that that we all want. I think that we need to encourage people. to go into politics. And the idea that. the leader of the opposition was being. attacked because he was on 140,000. pounds, because he's a Labour. politician. It's almost like you're a. Labour politician, you shouldn't take. the MP salary. You should almost donate. that to charity and work for like. nothing. I mean, that's just ridiculous. I So, the perception of Labour and what. people think about Labour is that if.

you're in the Labour Party, you have to. be on minimum wage. You have to be a. socialist. You have to think like that. No. You can think in a capitalist way, but. with some compassion and feel like you. can. be equal with other people and and. spread your wealth, and that actually. you can want people to be able to afford. their energy bills, and you can fight. for them even if you're in a sort of. wealthy position yourself. Why can't I. or you fight for people who can't afford. their energy bills this winter? Just. because we have a bank account that's. more than people would like it to be. I.

I I don't get that. I don't get that. I don't understand it. Yeah, it's a weird thing. I I I I don't. get it. We have to change that. I think. it's a perception. That's why I joined. the Labour Party. To think that actually. I can be successful. I'm a northern. north from a northern family that have. done well. I've I've earned good money. and continue to earn good money, but my. principles where I am now, even though. I'm an entrepreneurial. individual who to be fair has. profit-making companies, I can be. uh I can be Labour. I can think.

with with a social conscience. I I I I. don't think that's a problem. To me, that has to be the future of the. Labour Party. I have to say because then. I'll And you're the leader of it. Oh, well, I I. [laughter]. I won't go into politics either. No, no, no, no, no. I No. No, this is enough. I like my life. I. don't You know, I get criticized. [laughter] as it is. But but um no, I I. also have felt really disenfranchised by. the left that I grew up um feeling part. of for that very reason. And I I would. love if anything to to see the next.

leader of the party really speak to. that. And that would make me feel um. energized again about politics. You talked about being attacked. You've. talked about this unbelievable. relentless work ethic you have. But when. I say attacked, you get attacked every. day on social media as you've said, but. because you've got a big voice, you have. it's unavoidable. You've talked about. this relentless work ethic you have. And. you've talked about how you had that. moment where you collapsed one day. Over the last 10 years, our. understanding of mental health and male. mental health has risen tremendously.

When I was growing up, to have. a mental health issue meant that you. were crazy. That's what I thought. That. was the stigma. We've come so far, thankfully, from that perception. What has your experience been with. understanding your own mental health. over the last. couple of decades? And have you ever had a moment where. you've gone, "I need to put my mental health first. now because, you know, other than that collapse. moment where you've experienced anxiety. or depression or these kinds of. elements?" Yeah, I think that obviously. losing my confidence as a football.

player, being criticized, stopping to. having to stop reading the newspapers of. the day. When at the age of 24, I didn't. read a national news didn't read a. tabloid newspaper from the age of 24. through to the end of my career. Why? Because they were damaging. Damaging. how? Um if you read something really critical. of yourself in a national newspaper, and. the thought that then millions of people. are also reading that, particularly when. you're young and you're vulnerable, it impacts you and you lose confidence, and it I did lose confidence. So, I lost. form, got criticized heavily by.

newspapers, would read the newspapers, and it would have a direct impact on me. Physical impact is it? No, no, direct. impact on me in terms of how I felt. It. would drain me of confidence. And then. you get you almost then lose more. confidence. About 6 months this went on. for. I also at the time had lost um. I I'd come out of a relationship um with. someone I'd been engaged to and been. with for 7 years. So, I had two things. going on at once. Once I'd lost I'd lost. my form, and I'd come out of a. longer-term relationship. And at that. point, I did feel really low. Didn't. tell anybody, as you would you wouldn't. do back in sort of well, what would that.

have been? 1990. or 2000. 2000, 1990 Yeah, 1999 2000, so 24 25. years of age. Um made two big mistakes against Vasco. da Gama. Played a poor tournament for England in. Euro 2000, and it went on for 6 months. Um but went to see a psychiatrist, and I. got coping mechanisms. I got coping. mechanisms, things that basically he. taught me about about how to put things. into perspective. And that dealt with my.

mental health issues at the time, and it. also helps me to deal with things that. come forward now of critical nature. When you say you were feeling low, what. were the symptoms of feeling low for. those 6 months? Not wanting to play, not. wanting to take the ball on the pitch, and confident to take the ball and pass. it, hiding a little bit, fearing games. coming forward, anxious about games. coming forward, thinking about my. relationship breakup during matches, which is un un unthinkable for me. I. remember playing a European game away. I. think it was either in Anderlecht or. somewhere like that. And actually.

thinking in the middle of the pitch. about my ex-girlfriend, and thinking, "I'm playing for Manchester United. This. is not what what's going on." And it. impacted me in thinking that But then. that happens, I'm sure, to every single. football player. So, I knew that that. that point then I needed to see somebody. because I wasn't playing well. Um he. subbed me against Real Madrid in the. quarterfinal of the European Cup, um and I had a nightmare. Absolute. nightmare. Um and I thought, "Oh." I remember we won the league that. year. at Southampton away.

I remember jumping up. There's a picture. of me jumping up on the pitch with the. rest of the players, and me feeling. empty, and not even feeling like. celebrating it. I always remember that, and it was the. worst league that we ever won. for me. But for others, it might have been a. great league, but for me, I just hated. that league. I didn't enjoy it at all. I. feel like I just needed to stop, and you. know, I felt like I was spinning on a. roundabout, and I couldn't get off it. Um I remember saying that to the. psychiatrist at the time. Um and then he started to put these. little coping mechanisms in place. So,

if I get nervous before a game, think. about what you're going to be doing. later on that you're going to enjoy. If. you have a really bad day, think about. something simple like did you know, ask. yourself a simple question, like I said. before, "Did you always think you were. going to have a good day every day?". Such a good question. And I love that. question. Yeah, I thought I think I'm going to. have some pretty bad days going forward. It's like self-compassion almost. Yeah, that's how I dealt That's how I dealt. with my dad. Did I think that my there. was a good chance in my life that my dad. would die before me? Yeah, I I I was prepared for it.

And that's not right, but that's how I. dealt with it. Really simply. There was. always going to come a point where my. parents and grandparents were likely to. die before me, and I would have to deal. with that. What we can never ever comprehend is. obviously losing someone that's younger. than you in your family. We can't. comprehend that. That's the unthinkable. That's the one thing if you said to me. that sort of breaks me. Um. that you know, I think I think would. break me completely. But then on the. other side, we know that, you know, my. grandparents lived till they were eight.

in their 80s. My dad lived till he was 65. I thought. I'd love I'd love I'd loved him to have. lived another 10, 15 years, of course, but he didn't. But I was able to deal. with it through the idea that. he lived his life to the full. He didn't. make those changes that I'm probably not. making now. He carried on going out with. my sister and the mates till 3:00, 4:00. in the morning having a drink, traveling. to Australia watching a play, and. you know, living life watching United. every single weekend, doing the things. that he loved. And you know, his life. was taken away at the age of 65. So, I. could almost explain that to myself and.

deal with it in a pragmatic way. Some people say I you know, some people. close me say I've still not dealt with. it 5, 6, 7 years on because I not. probably shown the proper emotion and. grief that I should have done through. it. But. I feel like I have dealt with it. I feel like I have dealt with it. Um. just through being able to put those. coping mechanisms in place. So, I always feel we all need those. simple coping mechanisms. For others, it. might not be the same as me. One of the. big things I think for me is definitely. training.

So, I blew up at Sky one Boxing Day. where I just run I always got the sprint. to Christmas where everyone tries to get. everything in before Christmas, and then. you just collapse when you stop. Boxing. Day one year, the only time I've ever. missed a Sky game. Uh. Everton v Hull, Boxing Day. I was going. to Hull. I woke up in the morning, I. couldn't get out of bed. And I just run. myself into the ground. I'd stopped. training. I was eating too much. I put. weight on. You'll see in the first few. years after Sky. I'd stopped doing the things that kept. me well. So, training now, if I don't train for a.

week, I feel terrible. Not just. physically. I feel it up here. I've got one of those. bodies because I've been a football. player. I know when I put. I feel every chip. So, I feel I can feel it here. I can. pinch myself. We're all the same as. football. We had our body fat done you. know once a week. We're weighing. ourselves every day because we know. that's big part of our performance. Hydration, nutrition, weight is a big. part of our performance. And so, I know it. I've lived it for.

15-20 years, but then I stopped doing. that for the first five, six years out. of football and then you blow up and. then you feel awful. You look awful. And. you've got people on Twitter sending you. you know. Jesus, you're carrying a bit. You know what I mean? Stop eating the chips. Choose the salad. All those things get sent to you on. Twitter. You know what I mean? And you. look at yourself in the mirror and you. think. they're right, aren't they? And then you. start to think oh, I've I've got to. change. So, you eat a little bit better. You eat a lot better and then you train.

And training for here is it just frees. me. I I don't No one likes it. I do it. first thing in the morning, but once I. finished it. [sighs]. I feel I can go I can go. And I wasn't. doing that. So, that's an important part. of my mental health strategy now. It's. just to feel better by The one thing I. need to deal with is alcohol. Cuz I like a glass of wine. You know, I can I can I can I drink one. or two glasses of wine, but COVID I'm. drinking one or two glasses of wine. every night. And then now, even now, I'm just I'm at.

home tonight. Salford are playing at. home. So, I can't wait. It's one of the. greatest moments in my life now. Tonight, you'll get nothing out of me. between 7:45 and 10:00. Salford are. playing away at Newport. I'm not going, but I'm going to put the feed on on my. telly, but I'll I'll have a glass of. wine. And I'm it's a magical moment. I don't. need it. So, I've got to stop doing that. We'll. find out. [laughter]. We'll have to ask Emma. Tonight. That's. why I always have a glass of wine. When. Liverpool are playing, you know what I. mean? [laughter]. 2015, um your dad passes away. When I.

was reading. that in your story upstairs and the age. he passed away, it struck a little bit. close to home because um. [clears throat]. I feel like in my life my dad has had a. tremendous influence on me and I feel. like my relationship is not as close as. it could be with him. And he has. outlived all of his siblings, but in my. view had a much more stressful life. And he's 65. And um. I guess the question I had for you is. like.

what advice would you give for me? And is there anything that you wish you. had said or done whilst you all behaved. differently whilst that person was here. that you now know in hindsight? Um he's the only I don't ring people. I don't speak to I don't I don't ring my. brother every day. I don't text my. sister every day. I don't ring my mom. every day. I rang my dad every day. three, four times a day. He's the only. constant in my life every single day, my.

dad. Um advice, looking after things. what you're up to. He loved picking the. kids up. So. I made I put his office next to our. house as well so that he cuz basically. looked after my stuff as well. So. for me he was the constant in my life. every single day and that constant's. gone now. And I always say this, I've still got. him at the top of my favorites in my. speed dials and I'll never move him. And. it freaks me out sometimes, you know, when you're clunky with your fingers and. you press the button just by mistake cuz.

my mom's underneath him and you want to. ring my mom and you and some the odd. time, once a year maybe or whatever, you. press. you know. dad mob. And it freaks me out a little bit cuz I. think I and it makes me get well up a. little bit cuz I think I used to ring. him every single day three, four times a. day and it just went overnight. I. couldn't ring him anymore. So, that's. the constant has gone. So, in terms of. advice, obviously I don't know your. relationship with my dad. My my dad's. relationship with me was so influential. But it would be to. I say that I think this sometimes with.

my mom. What excuse have I got not to ring my. mom every single day? I've got no excuse not to ring my mom. every single day for two or three. minutes and ask how she is, but I don't. My brother does. My sister does. But I. don't have that relationship with my. mom. I had it with my dad. I had it with my dad. So, for me just speaking to him every. single day. um I I. I wish. you couldn't tell my dad to stop going. out with my sister and the mates, to. stop going out with his mates, to stop.

going to the football, to stop traveling. away to watch United in Europe. All. those things that may have taken years. off his life. Cuz people people say to me, "Do you. miss your dad?". I say. I do. But what I miss most. is what he's missing with my children. and my brother's children and my. sister's little boy. That gets to me because I know how good. he was with them. I know I I I saw it for six, seven. years. It was unbelievable. He adored them and he was starting to.

slow down because of them. He was. starting not He was starting to make. decisions to stay at home to look after. them rather than going out. But he gone out for 15 years and he had. a brilliant life, did everything. You know, he did absolutely all those. sort of things that you you you you read. out at the beginning of the 217 caps and. the the tournaments for my sister. He. was at every single one of them. He was at every single one of them. He. didn't miss a Manchester United game. I. went I I walked out onto the pitch 602.

times for Manchester United. And I waved at my dad 602 times. there in that spot every single time or. in the away end I'd have to try and find. him, but that was easy cuz he was 6'2". and he had a massive big wire you know, head of hair. And I waved him every single game and if. I didn't wave to my dad I could tell I. found my dad. Some of the odd game in. the away end, you know, Newcastle away. You see that where you sat up in that. top bit. You're like you're looking for ages and. I couldn't settle until I'd found him. I couldn't settle. That was one of the.

things. It's not a superstition whether. it's a routine. So, to miss that from my life, I missed. that idea that he was just there and. then I feel comfortable. He's there. Right, I'm okay. Dad, anything happened? No, no, everything's good. All right, bye. Had to spoke to him and you know, anything it's it's that. You know, it's that that's so. maybe speak to your dad, maybe. ring him every morning. Maybe make him your first text. People say you've you've not grieved.

that. Some people close to me do. Because they. were because they were expecting. Maybe maybe maybe Emma, maybe maybe my. sister. I don't know what Phil thinks. about it. Maybe I don't know cuz I just. carried on. We all I maybe we all. carried on. Maybe we all carried on. You know, I I. you know, on the day that obviously he. died. you know, it was only a couple of weeks. ago, the anniversary of it. You know, I. always text my mom, you know, I miss him. so much, mom. And. you know, I I feel that's the one time.

where I feel like I connect with my mom. on it. I I don't feel like I can even. talk to my mom on it. Cuz I know sometimes that. you know, when. when you've got parents that you're so. close to. and then they've been together. what you then find is my mom's been. unbelievable since. you know, my dad passed away. She's absolutely unbelievable, my mom. But there are times when we're out for a. meal together. or I can see it and she'll just. disappear. And she'll stare into the distance and I. know where she is. But I can I never say "I know where you.

are, mom. I know what you're thinking. about." I don't feel like I ever should. say that. Because it's my mom's space. It's my. mom's thought and. you know, it's how we deal with it. It's how we deal with it at home. We. just. No. And cuz if I said to her, "You all. right, mom?" And sometimes maybe the odd. time I'd say, "Are you all right?" Yeah, I'm fine. You never get anything out of her. That's not what you know, we don't bring. our problems onto each other. You don't bring your problems onto each. other in our family. That's how we do it, but that's not. right. We should talk to each other. We. should encourage each other. But it's.

just the way we've dealt with things. But in our businesses now in the way. we try all the time to encourage people. to speak, to make sure that they reach. out. But it's not how we probably act. internally. There's a there's almost a bit of um. I I'm I'm guessing from what you've. described and as a lot of that might. have come from your father. That that Or was he a an expressive. emotional expressive. emotions to be fair. I think my mom's. probably less emotional than my dad. Yeah, I think my mom and dad's quite. emotional.

But again, he probably did. Yeah, he. wouldn't. push his stuff onto others, I don't. think. But he he didn't do, did you? You. don't do. I say the '70s and '80s. period, you don't push your stuff onto. others because the parents of my mom and. dad grew up coming out of the World War. [clears throat]. So, everything in perspective is that. you've not got a problem. You've not got a problem. We had. problems back then. So, don't you whinge about this. But we now in this generation now. I think have to adapt and change.

Cuz there's a consequence to not. speaking about these things. There is. There is. There is. stored in the back room somewhere and. they come out as you know, alcoholism or. other addictions. we've all seen that in people around us. and it shocks and surprises us. You. know, I've got a couple of friends. who've had issues in the last four, five. years that I would never have imagined. Would never have even thought. And you think, "How have I not spotted. that? How have I not seen that? How have we not opened up to each other. about that?". It happens. It happens and that.

in all walks of our life. In all walks of our life. So, we have to. we have to encourage it. Hopefully that's what we're doing here. Yeah, I hope so. When you you know, I I. read that you when you look forward at. your future, you kind of plan in 10-year. cycles. So, the obvious question is what is what. is what is the next 10 years about for. you cuz you know I don't I don't. feel like I believe that you're you're. doing what you're doing because there is. some. finish line in sight. [laughter]. No, that's me. Just It was like when we.

set up a a university. I remember the uh. vice-chancellor of Lancaster said, "You. do realize you're entering into. something with no exit." Yeah. I like the idea of that. No exit. You can't sell UA92. How can we? We are. UA92. Can't sell your own university. You can't In my opinion, you should It's. what we are. That to me is perfection. There is no. finish I think it should go on forever. that you've created. So, we don't think. short-term. I don't think short-term. I never think.

short-term. But, like I say, I think I. came out of football thinking the next. 15 years were critical to establish. myself in business and to try and remove. that tag of Gary Neville, ex-Manchester. United football player. That was my. target. That was my plan. So, whether that be media, whether that. be business, whatever that might mean. So, I'm 3 years away from that. I do. feel like there are bumps in the road. There always are with businesses, but I. feel like I'm on track. I need to continue to keep working hard. and focus, but I wanted from 50 to 60 to.

be laser-focused and try and work on one. particular thing. And that would be a. result of my previous 30 years in work, the football experience, the business. experience, the media experience and. bring it together into something that I. can go and do that's special. I want to. do something special in my life. Um that's special to me, not necessarily. special in sort of you know. a greater sense, but special to me. I have a few words to say about one of. my sponsors on this podcast. My. girlfriend came upstairs yesterday when. I was having a shower and she said to me. that she tried the Huel protein shake. which lives on my fridge over there and.

she said it's amazing. Low calories, you. get your 20 odd grams of protein, you. get your 26 vitamins and minerals and. it's nutritionally complete. In the. protein space there's lots of things, but it's hard to find something that is. nice, especially when consumed just with. water and that is nutritionally complete. and that has about 100 calories in total. while also giving you your 20 grams of. protein. The salted caramel one, if you. put some ice cubes in it and you put it. in a blender and you try it is as good. as pretty much any milkshake on the.

market just mixed with water. It's been. a game-changer for me. I wanted to ask you a a question that. I've asked pretty much I think the last. 10 guests as well, which is if you were. to view your own personal happiness and. fulfillment as a. recipe of ingredients. And these. ingredients come in different. quantities, but together they make you. happy. When you look at that list of. ingredients, what do you think is. missing. from that recipe for you to be. completely. happy? Is it a good question or a difficult.

question? It must be a good one if I. can't answer it. Shut me up on it. Well, I I I. This isn't the question, but I but I've. asked the last 10 guests that exact. question, which is you know if you view. your happiness as this list of. ingredients and it's a recipe. Do I have a That's the problem. I. remember interviewing Tyson Fury and he. said I said, "What what what what does. the successful life look like for you or. what does the future look like for you?". He said, "Just to be happy." Mhm. I. thought, "How simple is that?" I never. think like that. Cuz I'm It's the goals or whatever. Yeah, even with football. I never. enjoyed it while I was doing it. Yeah, it's crazy that. Because I just.

felt so intense. So, I don't feel like. I'm ever assessing what makes me happy. or what. why I'm doing what Yeah, I I I I feel. like I'm just like you said before, you're just doing it. Yeah. Yeah, there is an element of that. What makes me happy? Watching Salford. um winning makes me happy. Spending time with my children when. they're in a when they're in. their good space makes me really happy. What would make you more happy? That's. That's what I'm getting at is if what. ingredient is potentially missing or out.

of balance in that. recipe? I know others would say to be present. more. What would you say? To be on a mountain in ski lodge. isolated away from everything. It's weird, isn't it? [laughter]. Why? Why? I don't know. I feel free on top of a. mountain. I obviously found skiing after. football. Feels really sort of basic. what I've just said. When you're you're. asking me something really deep. there's something profound in that, that. solitude and space.

and isolation and not You put that. helmet on, the mask on. I'm up on that mountain. and I'm free. The air's fresh and I feel. like, "Wow." Free from what? From. this. Mhm. Having to talk all the time. I think I'm quite No, no, no. I'm. joking. I'm saying I think I'm tired I. think I'm a little bit tired of hearing. my own voice. I think that the next thing that I do at. the age of 50 has to be something that.

means that Gary Neville doesn't speak as. much. Don't believe you. [laughter]. It's difficult that. Yeah. So, the. closing question that's been written for. you from from our previous guest is. what are some words you've not said to. somebody, why haven't you said them and. who should you have said them to? I think it would be to my mum. That. her and her mum and dad.

of all the people I always talk about. having the influence on my life. Sir. Alex Ferguson I mention all the time. I. mention my dad a lot. I mention. Eric Harrison a lot, Nobby Stiles, Roy. Keane, all the influences that I I have. I never mention my mum and without a. shadow of a doubt she's the best person. that I've ever met in my life and her. mum and dad. were the best people I ever met in my. life. That's making me a little bit upset. And they were the people who. I think. keep me grounded every single day.

because they're just good people. who do the right things, who look after. the family. They would put the family before. everything and I don't do that. Why does that make you upset? Because they put the family before. everything. And. would drop anything for anybody in the. family, their immediate family. But, I. don't. And to be fair, Emma is similar. Emma is similar. They're far better people than I am.

I feel that, you know what I mean? And I. never tell them. Because they. that traditional. you know, they do their job, they get. up, they work, they look after the. family, their responsibilities to the. family. Whereas. you know, I'm. floating around. So, yeah, it would be that I think. For them to know that that I I I don't. take it for granted. I understand the. the the importance of of that in my life.

and in our lives. The most I've ever grieved in my life. was when my mum's dad died. It was the. first person that I'd ever died. I was I. was lucky to have my grandparents till I. was 30. And my mum's dad died and I came home 2. days after my honeymoon. started. He died 2 days into my. honeymoon and we I came straight home. I didn't even break. I just got on a. plane from the Seychelles. because I had to. Because he he deserved that. He deserved.

that sacrifice for me to give up the. honeymoon and that and Emma. was fine with it. Because he had such an incredible. influence on my life. Gave up all his time for me, took me. everywhere. Cooked for me, was there three, four. nights a week. I didn't need to do that. So, they're they those those three. people. And there are there there are others. obviously, but I think those three. people and you know. Emma is very similar.

Gary, thank you so much. Thank you. Um I've watched you for my. entire life on TV as a as a huge United. fan growing up um and then obviously. even to this to this day on the overlap. and what you do across broadcast. television. And I I think it's amazing. and I I've after this conversation I. figured out why you've managed to sort. of grace so many different industries. and reach the top in all of those. endeavors. Um and it's because of that. those the set of values that were. instilled in you and that that you. clearly exude today. Your. relentlessness, your focus on hard work.

and all of these kind of old school. values which I think are a little bit. lost in my generation. Thank you for the. inspiration. Thank you. You've inspired. me so tremendously and your. vulnerability and your willingness to be. open in that regard I think is going to. create a better future in many respects. from for young men that are that are. driving towards their ambitions and. young women, but also um as it relates. to politics and what's going on in our. society. So, you're an a very important. person and it's unbelievable that a a. Manchester United um. a Manchester United right back has gone.

on to do all of these things. It but. it's a huge inspiration for me and many. many people that are listening I'm sure. Thank you. So, thank you. Huge huge. honor for me. I have to say that. No one. wants to grow up to be Gary Neville. [laughter]. Quick one. We have a brand new sponsor. on this podcast which I'm very excited. to tell you about. They're a brand. called Blue Jeans by Verizon and they. are a video conferencing and. collaboration tool that has changed the. game for our team. So, I'm so glad to be. working with them because as you know, one of the most important things for me. is when we have a sponsor, it is part of.

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