From My Garden Shed To $100m Business Empire! “That Letter Was The End Of Represent” - George Heaton

you know when people talk about work. life balance what's your honest opinion. of that Kobe Bryant wasn't doing three. throws at 3:00 a.m. for no reason but. there's a cost to that right George. heeden the founder of global fashion. brand represent warn by the weekend post. Malone Justin Bieber one of the most. popular Luxury Street brands in the. world when I was 18 starting this brand. it was just me and my brother in my. dad's shed figuring out products and. where we could take the brand but then. we went from doing 10 15 sales to like a.

th000 every day of the week 2,000 3,000. 4,000 we were making money at that time. more than what we should have in our. early 20s so we're [ __ ] around a lot. alcohol girls cars and we're doing like. 35 million revenue and was like we're. going to do 50 million next year but we. we don't know what we're doing now the. business is doing about $100 million. that's when the realization came that. you don't need to be good at business to. own a business there's people that are. so much better at things than you they. can lay the foundations for it to become. a billion dollar band and you can focus.

on what you're actually good at that was. a car list that just changed everything. we're building this there's no seing to. what it can be that was until we got a. letter. from that was the worst day in the. business it was rock bottom but the best. view of Heaven is from hell right you've. got to get to the bottom of that. mountain to start re climbing it it. became this driving force that I thought. who cannot stop that and then what. happens it's absolutely crazy to me that.

so many of you have decided to watch our. show um and so many of you have decided. to subscribe to our show we now have. five million subscribers on YouTube. which is a number that I just can't. comprehend and it's a dream that I. absolutely never could have had we. started the dire of a just over 3 years. ago now and in my wildest expectations. we might have had 100,000 subscribers by. now so you can imagine how shocked I am. that so many of you have chosen to tune. into these conversations every week um. and spend some time with us so thank you.

and I made a deal with you I made a deal. that if you subscribed to this show that. we would continue to raise the bar and. in. 2024 we're going to raise the BARC never. before I've been working for the last. nine months on a surprise for all of you. that have subscribed to the show and I'm. very excited to deliver that for you the. production's going to change we're going. to go even further with our guests and. we're going to tell even more Global. stories so as always if you appreciate. what we're doing here the simple free. favorite I'll ask for you is to hit the.

Subscribe button let's get on with the. [Music]. episode. George what is the mission that you're. on it's just to be the best version of. myself really just to show up and do. everything at the highest level I can. what influence did your parents have. because I I've heard you talk about your. mother and your father a lot but let's. start with your father what kind of. influence did he have on you I guess. when I was growing up he had he had a.

bit more than what everyone else had in. my town so like he had a Range Rover and. he dropped me off to school in that. Range Rover and all the kids felt that. was sick so automatically I felt proud. of that so I was like I want to be like. this like what is it that my dad's got. that other people don't have um and the. way he showed up with my family and how. he would he wouldn't like I I've never. seen him drunk even to this day I've. never seen him drunk like he was a role. model is like a this stoic guy that. would just work hard show up drop his.

kids off at school come to football. training every single night like he. would be there for me and I think that. was just like even though it was never. spoke about in the household it just. like created my own discipline I guess. was he an emotional man no no no emotion. I've never seen him cry has he ever said. I love. you to me I don't know maybe as a young. kid but not not recently now what about. your mom very supportive she used to sit.

on the end of my bed every night and be. like George you got to make it you got. to carry your brother and sister like. you've got you've got to carry this. family on which was quite a hard thing. to take in when I was young um but she. just like affirmed that every single day. and like she loved the work I did and. the art that I did and she would try and. express that to all her friends and talk. about me a lot and it was always like. something that was kind. of um it kind of pushed me a bit you. know gave gave me like words of words of.

affirmation I guess confidence was that. was her saying that like a frequent. thing I'm just trying to figure out why. she would say that to you versus your. siblings is presumably because you're. you're the oldest no I was a middle. child brother's old um but Mike kind. of he was very within himself as as as a. younger kid and um didn't come out much. and he just did his own thing whereas I. would express myself a little bit more. than him in within the family and I. think my mom saw that as a way that I.

could be the the carrier of whatever. that boat was later down in life and. your parents what did they do so your. dad was my dad sold mini buses so him. and his his dad were in business so that. was kind of like me and my brother and. like me and my brother they looked the. same they did the same thing like had. the same demeanor same attitude to. everything and I think that's why me and. my brother went into business cuz we saw. that the family had been able to do that. um prior did you have any idea when you.

were a young man like 12 13 14 that you. would be in this. industry yeah I did to be fair looking. back at it I I had sensitive skin as a. kid and anything that fit me wrong or. like itched me or like like a back neck. label or the way a pant fit would. irritate me so much that I'd take it to. my Grands and she was a tailor so she. would taper things and take necks out of. things and she would make sure I knew. what the composition was before buying.

garments and when I look back at it now. I realized that that being that. particular so young kind of stemmed into. how I've built the brand and what it. stands for and the quality and. everything like that and Michael I met. Michael before when the first time we. had you on the podcast I think you had. eight employees and Michael was there as. well yeah and he comes across as a bit. of a genius but a bit of a introverted. genius what was the difference in your. skill set cuz you both went and studied.

like art well graphic design what was. the difference in your skill set there. wasn't really one he was just better. than me okay better than me at Art. definitely and cuz he was my big brother. I looked up to him so like through. Primary School like he was into like. heavy metal and rock and like California. and surf and skate and that wasn't. really a particular thing in Bolton like. everyone was in tracksuits and had. shaped heads and tiens and smoked on the. corner we were skating down these cobbly. roads with long hair and like big DC.

shoes on and skinny jeans and I I just. wanted to be him like until like early. 20s like he was he was my idol really. and when did um when did you make the. decision to apply your artistic skills. to clothing college so we had a project. where we had to make we had to make. something of our art that could sell and. Mike had Mike was two years ahead of me. so he'd already done the same course I. was on and he'd done like a little. Gallery where people would buy his. drawings and I looked at that and I.

looked at my dad and my dad wanted us to. come into the business at the time and. the last thing I wanted to do was that. but also I didn't want to sit and wait. around all my life to sell a painting. for 40 grand um and I remember going. into the class and I remember the. teacher telling me that average salary. of a graphic designer was 30k and I'd go. home and I'd speak to my dad I'd be like. hold on if University is going to cost. me 9k a year and the average salary is. 40k a year and like I can't [ __ ] buy. myself a Range Rover with that.

and I wanted to be like my dad so I was. like what what is it that I can make. that I can make money from like everyone. wants to be successful right there's no. denying that like money was such a big. thing back then that I wanted and I was. so particular about the clothing like I. said about my grand and taking things in. and how we'd adjust all my garments that. there was this there was this like. upbringing of social media Instagram was. just starting and YouTube was just. starting and I I I managed to watch a. few videos of like artists like shepher.

Ferry who owned o and Nikki diamonds who. own Diamond Supply and huff and these. guys over here on the West Coast that. were just selling like t-shirts with. graphics on and I thought why can't we. do we be the British version of that. what have we got to do to do that and. this college project came up and I just. thought I'll give it a go you know a. second ago you said being a graphic. designer wasn't going to allow you to. buy the same car as your dad was how. much was your dad a driving force behind. your sort of with.

um your decision- making and like when I. say that like was there really a. motivation to try and beat him or at. least get to where he was yeah. definitely definitely and a very. conscious motivation. yeah and because you thought that make. him proud or make yourself proud yeah I. thought it'd make the family proud but. as well it was just like no one thought. in my family that or even through my. friends or through my mom and dad's. friends whoever was around us no one. thought that we'd ever be anything no. one thought that like our art could s.

and we could make money that way and we. could build careers that way everyone. always expected us especially my grand. just expected us to go into the family. business having listened to some of your. interviews and stuff and gotten to know. you it does feel like there's a bit of a. chip on your shoulder and I'm not. necessarily sure who the chip on your. shoulder has come from I think a lot of. it self-inflicted I think I just like to. have something there to prove something. wrong or something right maybe Pro. myself right comes at a cost though it. does come at a cost yeah but I'm willing. to take that cost on are you sure yeah.

I've I've been doing it now for 13 years. I'm not going to stop anytime soon and. like I only feel now that we're just. getting started with it so I'm really. curious about this early phase which I. kind of call the shedding phase where an. entrepreneur makes the decision that. they're going to do something unusual in. the context of their like current social. group and the shedding phase I Define as. like when your family start thinking. you're a bit weird and you feel the. resistance from your family and then. you're like boys from school start.

thinking you think you're Richard. Branson or whatever and they start. making little comments can you recount. what your shedding facee was like I. think that was it I think like a lot of. people who was around just laughed at it. a lot of people just thought it was a. joke and it got to that stage where then. it was like oh it's your dad's business. your dad's your dad buys the stock and. like like this is a family business you. guys aren't making this money and. whatever until it gets to a point where.

it like just completely exceeds what. people think that is and then they seem. to come back around and then they buying. your product and then they're. congratulating you on the drops and then. they're your biggest fans do you. remember any comments that you heard oh. from C people yeah definitely I remember. there was one where I'd bought this R8. and it was I must have been 19 or 20. which is a car right right yeah and an. Audi and um I it packed up in in my town.

where I was and I remember getting a. message on Facebook. saying that car your dad's bought you is. packed up here he's going to get a. ticket on them yellow lines and I was. thinking like come on how did it make. you feel it made me want to go to the. next level with everything over and over. to so it drown out that noise so it was. like okay maybe his dad was. successful running a a small business. had a a nice house and whatever I wanted.

to take that to like a hundred times. that to prove that it wasn't that I. guess and so after you leave College. well it's during college right when you. sort of start the business MH is that. 2012 yeah when you first started the. business and then Michael joins you a. year later after you started selling. T-shirts yeah he was doing a bit of the. graphics here and there and um I would. run them to the Run orders to the post. office and then at night would sit and. draw together and then I'd speak to.

suppliers in China and stuff like that. and it just it just rolled on for the. three years that I was at University. what was that first year like that first. year in business uh from what I can. remember it wasn't really business it. was just going to The Back Garden where. my dad shed was speak to some suppliers. in China go to university complete my. whatever it was I was doing there come. back pack orders speak to customers do. it all again every single day for like. the first three years how big was the.

business in the first year probably. turned over about 10,000 pounds yeah. what about the second year. um maybe like 50k I think the third year. is when we decided to actually make it a. limited company and get an accountant. and how much did you do in the third. year roughly in terms of Revenue I can't. remember I think it was around half a. mill okay because I remember going to. the accountants and we we did all this. um we literally like T the business. apart and rebuilt it and he said to us.

at the end of this thing like if you've. got 100 Grand in the bank you should. carry on with it if not you've spent. three years just like doing nothing and. it's going nowhere and uh luckily we had. way more than that in the bank and it's. was like okay let's let's do this for. real you spent two years you know and by. the end of the second year you're. generating 50k which is like not enough. really to pay yourself a salary whilst. covering costs of the business no I. didn't take a salary for seven or eight. years so surely that Point people around. you are telling you that you're an idiot.

and they've got quite good evidence yeah. to suggest that you're actually wasting. your time but I I never had never had a. big doubt that it wouldn't work I've had. a lot of doubts but never had a doubt. that it wouldn't work and I knew that I. would do everything I could to make sure. it worked what did work how would you. define worked at that that moment like. what was success at that moment success. was putting products online and it. selling and seeing that launch night and. seeing 500 people log in and buy. something or a thousand people and. seeing that incremental gain over time.

that was what was like the driving force. more people following the brand more. people sending DMS that that was it. really why don't people start and I say. that BEC You Know in hindsight now. you're going to understand looking back. at your own work the quality of it what. you went through and you probably have a. pretty good idea on why people just. don't start you must have get so many. DMS from people that have an idea or. fashion idea or anything why don't they. start I think it's that pressure of.

failure the the feeling of Doubt. like and as well wasting time if they've. got a family or they've got a job where. it's full-time then to start something. else on the side when they've got to see. to the family or the girlfriend or the. wife or whatever it is like you don't. have much time to go and do something. else that you then hope will eventually. in the future take off or become. successful and it takes so long like it. does take I know it's a lot of people. say takes 10 years to become an overan.

night success and I think that's true. you you spent almost four years um from. 2012 till I guess no two years 2012 till. about 2015 is kind of just effectively. messing around yeah messing around. really messing around a lot of messing. around learning learning yeah is. probably a better better use of words. and enjoying it as well like me and my. friends had sit in my dad's shed like. all night just figuring out products and.

things that we wanted to do and where we. could take the brand and I'd love to go. back to them times cuz they were great. and we had nothing and no one was really. watching us but we thought everyone was. watching us and we thought it was the. next big [ __ ] Powerhouse of a. brand um so yeah it was it was fun like. I don't regret any of it you know what. putting these two questions together. about like why people don't start and. also those three years where you weren't. really making any any money yeah um and. you in the shed in your GR in your dad's. house. why didn't you quit because as I said a.

second ago there must have been so much. force telling you to go and get a real. job yeah but why didn't you quit I think. it just leads back to again proving. people wrong and proving myself right. and like the only other option I had was. to go and work for my dad and I didn't. want to do that because I'd done that. all my teens and I hated it I hated. cleaning mini buses and ripping stickers. off the sides of Windows and going to. auctions and bidding on cars and stuff. like that wasn't me and that was the. only other option I had so it was like.

this is it it's all all or nothing. really when you look back at the uh. products that you made in that shed how. do you feel about them there was a few. great ones and a few absolutely terrible. ones I remember the first collection I. moved to China because originally I. would buy stocking from America print it. in the UK and like make zero profit on. it but it was great and it felt great. and then eventually we decided like. let's try and make some profit on a on a. collection and I remember this. collection coming back after a few.

months and like all the fits were wrong. and the Fabrics were wrong and I I just. cried on my mom's floor for like hours. that night um so there was there was a. lot of really rough times as well there. was a lot of fun but it was all just. like figuring out different things and. like learning how to do every single job. within that business because you know if. I'm a young fashion designer or a young. creative and I look at your work now I. look at the product that represents. putting out now it's easy to see how one.

might be put off from starting right. because I look at yourself Jesus Christ. like you can't compete with it you can't. compete with that like that's more than. 10 years of like Mastery so I'm just not. going to bother starting what what do. you say to those people say look you got. to put the work in it's going to be 10. years like regardless of what industry. it is or what product you're making like. I wouldn't even think about the next two. to three years I'd think about 10 years. like that's the mindset you've got to. have and and it's not going to be easy.

and it's not going to be fun but you. just got to do everything you can to. make it work so the brand kind of scales. up. to what sort of Revenue number from 2012. up to 2018 we built it up to like 6 to 7. mil MH so like 2015 16 17 it was just. flat like 6 7 mil year over year yeah. and we thought that was a ceiling in for. at the at the time as our young s we not. knowledge and no real thought in the.

industry like we thought that we were at. the ceiling of what represent was and. then that's when the realization came. that like if we carry on doing what. we're doing it's not going to. work and this brand will fail what was. the advice you needed at that point that. you didn't get um I definitely didn't. get the advice but it was to just. completely restart refocus go again. build a new team and and and go into.

what we already knew that was there. waiting for us we knew what we were. capable of we just weren't doing it what. weren't you doing focusing on our. consumer asking them what they wanted. speaking to them being within the. community of what represent was and. giving them what they wanted when you. say the the point about team MH um you. said rebuild a new team when you started. the brand who did who were you hiring. all my. friends I hired all my friends all my. close friends cuz I wanted to enjoy it.

and I didn't know think about hiring. people I didn't want to interview people. and bring them into my dad's garden shed. so up until we had a unit like it was. just me and my friends and we were all. just doing 50 jobs each no one had a. title no one knew what was going on um. and it didn't work but now we're at such. a level where there's a hundred people. in the business two of those friends. that came in right at the start are. still in the business and a very high up. in the business and have amazing.

successful lives so half worked and half. didn't when you say it didn't work what. does that mean in reality it means that. like we I guess it's all not my fault as. such but it's all. it's I I brought people into the brand. that shouldn't have been in fashion or. shouldn't have been doing what I'd asked. them to do or like their career didn't. go the the way that it should have gone. because we were just just Plateau at. this base of.

like a a quite a boring fashion brand at. the time and like did we had to split up. and we had to regroup and start again. and the ones that stayed have now stayed. forever which is insane and the ones. that left they've have' carried on with. their lives what have you learned about. um hiring again when I say the advice. that you you wish you'd gotten at the. time before you'd hired a single person. that you might give if you could speak. to George at 18 years old and you could. give hiring advice on how to pick people.

what would you say hire Fast Fire faster. interesting I spent a lot of years. where I didn't hire people because I. didn't think they would fit into the. brand and even though they don't seem a. certain way or they're into the same. brands that I'm into or they follow this. kind of um industry that we're in. whether it's streetware or luxury or. high fashioned like there is still. unbelievable people that can do amazing. things way better than what can do in. all levels of business that don't look.

like they should be or don't seem like. they would um so just like realizing. that back back then would have really. helped the business. grow I think sometimes like young. Founders um I remember just thinking. back on my own experience we're. sometimes scared to hire people that are. like more experienced than we are. because how are we going to manage them. and all those kind of concerns and also. why would they want to come here you. know why would they want to come here. was a massive thing for me really yeah. why would want why would someone want to.

come to a smaller brand than what they. were at um and especially in that time. when it wasn't growing cuz it's not you. don't want to go into a company that's. not growing but like now it's completely. different the the whole ecosystem that. we've built and who wants to come into. the brand and like the way the brand is. growing it's now like we have the. abundance of everyone wanting to join. the brand so it's it's it's now like. it's hard to pick and choose who we. bring into the brand rather than going. out there and looking for them and. trying to get them into brand you know. what I mean mhm it's so like Catch 22.

you know I have a lot of dragon Den. Investments and these are typically. early stage companies that often quite. young and I sit with them all the time. and I I talk to them about this Paradox. of um there it's some kind of. multifaceted thing they are a very young. team very inexperienced they have small. budgets relatively small budgets so. they're thinking we can't pay an. exceptional really experienced person. because £1,000 salary is so much for us.

and because they don't and also the. stuff you said about like why would. anyone want to come work in this like. shed right because of that they never. grow to be able to pay for those people. to be able to create an environment. where exceptional people would come. right so the only way like I see of. kickstarting the process is to bring in. exceptional people now um yeah that. makes sense pay for it now and you'll. see the increased outcome later. definitely yeah yeah like bringing in.

exceptional people will never be a bad. thing in the business but it feels like. it because they they because it costs so. much so much yeah yeah but you're also. going to learn so much from them just. especially if you're a small team and. you're bringing in people that have been. in there for 10 years and done what. you're trying to do like the in the. information and the value that they. provide just to open your mind up to. what's actually possible can get you to. the next level like I've brought a CEO. into represent that was handling a $500. million business for him to come into my.

business that at the time it was only. doing 20 mil and to tell me what's. possible and run me through different. geographies and how products can have a. lifetime and how you can maintain a. constant like steady sale of one product. for so many years when I we were just. thinking that you put something online. let it sell out and then you move on to. the next thing and there's so many. different like factors that can come in. and different areas of growth and sales. and categories and all these different. things that just make you realize oh you.

can turn the business from 20 to 50 mil. by just doing. this but you would never know that if. you were just in your little group of. people that you've grown up with and. done it with forever and you don't even. know that you don't know it like it's an. unknown know no because there's no one. teaching you and I and that's why I'm. trying to do this YouTube channel and. trying to be so expressive but also um. like authentic on the YouTube and on. Instagram by telling people this and. showing them how what we actually do and. how we do it because when I was 18.

starting this brand I had nowhere to. look I had no mentors I there was no one. in fashion that would wanted to come and. help us and there's nothing like that I. could just go online and find and and. buying a course to build a brand isn't. going to work that's that's the biggest. load of [ __ ] ever um so like you're. stuck in your own in your own ways and. you you've got limited. beliefs and you don't know what you. don't know so how you how again if you. could like go back cuz there's so many. young kids that are going to be looking. up to you thinking okay George I get it.

there's lots of things that I don't know. where do I go to find the answers what's. the best way to go to find these answers. that are going to help me go to the next. level I think you got to research now I. think everyone's very explicitly. authentic online like if they want to be. the next George Heaton you can scroll. down my Instagram for the last 10 years. and see exactly what I've done and where. I've been and how I've done it who we've. done it with or you can go on the. YouTube channel and backload a. documentary that we did three years ago.

that shows the last 10 years and then. now you do it with um the diary of the. SE behind behind the scenes as well so. the people are willing as well to like. give you advice I give people advice on. social media all the time but that. decision then to bring in that. CEO where did that information come from. I spent a good couple years just really. like rebuilding myself when that when. that Plateau happened um there was like. 18 months to two years where it was just.

before Co started and I wanted to just. like really build myself up into someone. that I wasn't at that time but I wanted. to be why what was going on in your. world I I felt like I was stuck and like. like I said we we had limited beliefs we. didn't know where to go and what to do. it's like how do I then figure that out. if I'm not got a mentor or someone. telling me which way to go with it I've. got to do it myself so it was like read. every single self- health book look into. every single fashion show figure out.

like what it is we want to do and where. we want to go with this brand and how. we're going to build it up but also with. ourselves was this the period in 2018. where you said you lost the motivation. for the business yeah just before that. take me into that period of your life if. I'm a if I'm a fly on the wall what do I. see in in your world at that time where. you're like not excited about it not. excited about it because we were getting. a lot of push back from press and like. we were trying to do runway shows and. no stores wanted to buy us and our price.

points weren't right and the way we were. taking the design wasn't right and that. was like painful because it was a. passion for us it was our love so like. that negative feedback was like kind of. painful at the time but we used it as. like a reset button and I looked at. myself as well at the same time and like. I wasn't putting everything into the. brand I wasn't going like full on with. it I was messing around and like. enjoying in my life as well cuz we were. making money at that time like more than.

what we should have been doing in our. early 20s so we're [ __ ] around a lot. and I'm not going to sit here and lie. like we would we didn't know what we. were doing we were messing around and it. just got to a point where like that year. became unprofitable and for me to sit. there and think [ __ ] like I've done this. for the past seven or eight years and. now it's not making money that was like. that was the thing that then just that. was a car list that just changed.

everything I just took a real good hard. look at what we are and who we were and. just changed it all what about you on on. a personal level at that at that time. you said you weren't happy with yourself. didn't why I hated the way I looked I. hated the way I came across on social. media I was very shy very. unconfident. um like terrible at hiring people and. just didn't like had not anger issues. but was always angry was always negative. always had like this pessimistic view of. everything. even the weather had pissed me.

off um for a for a long time and I just. remember reading a few books and. thinking like why am I this way and how. do I change myself I even and like being. the artist I even redrew how I wanted to. look and it was like every single day. now I've got to work on being that guy. who is who is George Heaton that I want. him to be not who I am now you actually. Drew yeah yeah an a picture yeah I used. to look back at it all the time and just. think this this this is I wanted to. recreate myself and recreate the brand.

what was the base you were starting from. at that point and how old were you at. this point 20 six I think I was 25 26 I. just like had a had a unhealthy. relationship with the way I worked and. even the food I at and like I wasn't I. wasn't healthy I wasn't doing well. didn't look great like didn't didn't. feel myself I didn't want to look at. myself in the mirror um you didn't want. to look at yourself in the mirror yeah. because I didn't like who I'd become and.

like the I didn't like what the brand. had become either and the brand was my. life so it was like this all needs to. change when you say you didn't want to. look at yourself in the mirror do you. actually mean that or you saying that as. like a figure of speech I guess a figure. of speech but as well like realizing. that that I wanted to change a lot so. then when when you do want to change. then you don't like the way you are how. how did you know you wanted to change I. me that sounds like an like a slightly. peculiar question but I always think. about what it takes for someone to have.

one of those moments in their life where. they go you know what enough is enough. yeah and sometimes I've always like. pondered I think I've said it a few. times on the show like do people have to. reach a certain Rock Bottom in their. lives before they go you know what 100%. And I see this with people now that um. we Inspire with 247 or who will send me. a DM and say look you've changed my life. through this or that the I think the. like the best view of Heaven is from. hell right I think you've got to get to. the bottom of that mountain to start re. climbing it I think if you just sit. around in the middle somewhere and and.

life's just is what it is that was what. I was going through um and like I had a. girlfriend and we'd split up and that. was terrible and yeah the brand wasn't. doing well I got told it was. unprofitable and like I was just in this. [ __ ] what for me was rock bottom and. I know it doesn't sound bad compared to. a lot of other people's lives I. understand that but for me for where I'd. been on the trajectory that I thought I. was on it was Rock Bottom so was that. was like the reset so you drew a picture. of yourself and how you wanted to look. did you write anything about who you.

wanted to be in terms of values or yeah. I've got a best friend who's done a very. similar transformation and they. literally wrote down like a set of. principles and it's it's in the notes of. their phone it's my friend Anthony and. he went from being in a place in his. life where he also figuratively couldn't. look himself in the mirror dropped. alcohol hit the gym and has turned it. around and he he has almost has this. like Ten Commandments in the notes of. his phone yeah you did something similar. exactly the same and still have them. that pop up every morning like reminders.

on my phone um I found this guy called. Andy fitell and he had a book. called um 75 hard and it was like a. mental toughness challenge but it also. included a lot of working out in there. and it was like no alcohol drink this. much water read this much of a book and. just do it every single day for 75 days. write down five things you're going to. do that day and I did that and I started. doing it and I started seeing like these. crazy results in my life just with. everything just the way I could.

structure my day and knowing that like I. had to put two workouts into a day one. had to be outside wanted to be inside so. structure the rest of the day around. that and then started learning how to. plan my day out better and where the. time was where I could go and do these. other things and like every night I. would read 10 pages of a book whichever. book that was. from all the ran holiday books and. Robert Green and everything like that so. I was learning all these things whilst I. was also doing this mental toughness. Challenge and it was like a 75 day thing.

and I remember getting to getting to the. end of it and just thinking [ __ ] like. I'm I looked at myself then and I was. like okay I can see the change and you. know when you can see change that's when. you like really go into it you start. getting obsessed when you see whether. it's success or like your Fitness levels. go up or just the way you energy levels. are every day and just figuring out that. like these little indicators are. changing the way I'm and then at the. same time we were really working on the. business so the business was starting to.

see a bit more success and that whole. thing the Cadence of that just kept. rolling and rolling and rolling and I. guess whether it's Obsession or. addiction I got addicted to it and like. there couldn't be a day go by where I. wouldn't work out or I wouldn't eat the. exact calories that I needed to eat or I. wouldn't sleep the exact like and I. needed to get the exact amount of sleep. that I wanted and it just completely. changed like the way I looked and the. like my my levels of fitness and. cardiovascular and strength and. everything like that I just went through. the roof cuz people will look at you now.

and think that you know they'll see you. getting up at I don't know 5:00 a.m. in. the morning and going for like a 20 mile. run um and hit in the gym later that. evening running a business doing all. these things being super productive and. they'll probably think he was just born. with something that I don't have right. like he's just got this level of. motivation probably came in his DNA that. I don't have yeah and a lot of people do. say that a lot of people think that. think it's genetics or they think it's. steroids and stuff like that or they'll. just think that you're like wired in a. way from birth I used to think that as.

well back when I was overweight and. unhealthy and like I'd look at people on. Instagram be like yep genetics whatever. yep he's on steroids I can't look like. that I've got a business to run like you. would you dismiss everything but it's. not and once you start doing it yourself. and you see those little gains and you. you get into it you you can really. change what is the starting point one. step at a time whether it's 10,000 steps. or doing even a 20 minute workout that's. all people need to do to.

change because you'll start seeing. results regardless of what position. you're in right now if you can just keep. increasing incrementally what you're. doing in terms of Fitness or your. business or however like your sleep. whatever it is that you feel is not. right you'll see the change over time it. comes and it takes a long time takes a. really long time but it it happens it's. difficult to it's difficult to believe I. guess for some people because they they. kind of they see the mountain in front. of them and you're telling them listen.

it's just one step at a time up that. mountain but they're just looking at the. top of the mountain going Jesus Christ. that's a long way away and the thought. that the the first steps to take are. small ones doesn't almost doesn't seem. believable yeah and and look same with. me like I would go head on into. something thinking that you could just. go out there and run a marathon within a. week and people do that and it and it it. crushes you and and then you have to. start again but it's just about finding. the rhythm of like what you enjoy and. and just going and just doing it and not. not really taking your foot off the gas.

once you start doing it so jumping back. to 2018 then so the business is stagnant. during that period of time and you go on. this process of Reinventing yourself um. you also go on the process of. Reinventing the business yeah what does. that mean how did you reinvent the. business we stripped back all the. wholesale that we we were doing and we. focused on the DTC so we went into this. weekly drop thing and it was just right. it was just before like covid happened. and James who is the chief product.

officer was like super keen on moving. our production out to Portugal it was. currently in the UK and Italy and it was. making no money and I had so many. arguments with him about it and like. hated this this way of thinking that he. was doing and like what he wanted to do. with the business and it got to like we. we had a massive heated argument about. it and it was so right for the business. at the time and I just didn't know it. cuz I weren't acceptance AC accepting of. like changing changing the way we were.

working and I didn't understand that you. could go and do this other thing. and produce in a different way than what. we were doing and like full credit to. him he completely changed the whole like. margin of what we were doing um so James. was doing that for like nine months. straight and Mike was doing all these. new graphics that was going to change. the way the brand looked and then I I. came out to LA a few times and Bone. these t-shirts that I really loved and. these cargo pants that I loved and then. we started putting all these three.

things together through through all of. us and then I have a guy called Stefan. who was doing all the Website. Maintenance and everything like that and. we changed the way the website looked. and the whole vision of the brand and we. deleted everything off social media and. just like restarted and it just it. started working and we put like 300. t-shirts online and we sold 300 in a. minute and then the next week Mike did. another design and we sold 600 in a. minute and then 900 in a minute and then. it was like [ __ ] we actually do have a. following here we've gone from. doing 10 15 sales through the day to.

like a thousand every single Wednesday. 2,000 3,000. 4,000 and that gave us like the the. liquid and also the confidence to then. go and create more Collections and go. back to becoming a real brand again as. you were saying that made me think about. how so many people aren't successful in. their lives or aren't as successful as. they could possibly be. because they haven't gotten out of their. own way and that was me a million times.

over and just like having that open. mindedness and listening to other people. and knowing that it's not you're not. right with everything is such a [ __ ]. huge thing it's difficult when you I. think especially if you're a young CEO. because you're probably already a bit. insecure right yeah 100% yeah um like. you feel like you should know everything. so you're like overcompensating by but. then as well like the business was. growing so much that I would have only.

just restricted it if I would have. stayed in that CEO position even though. I was learning a lot and listening a lot. to a lot of things and we had to bring. people in because we were like busting. at the seams didn't have enough staff. and like the revenue was going crazy and. we didn't know what to do with ourselves. we're all running around like headless. chicken there's only like 20 people in. the business and we were doing like 30. 35 million revenue and it was like [ __ ]. how what are we going to do we're going. to do 50 million next year but we we. don't know what we're doing just like so. silly but yeah.

you I'm going to say from the outside it. looks like you you had it all together. of course it does yeah for the whole 13. years it kind of looks like that um and. it still looks like that now and we. definitely don't have it all together. but we I do have an amazing like. leadership team and everyone in the. business is like so bought into it now. and like now there's like a mission. statement and some fundamentals behind. the business and everyone's everyone's. really on the mission with me and like. they they [ __ ] live for it and love. it and like we die for it you've you've. created a pretty amazing um company.

culture you were talking about it there. yeah how have you done that that's it's. not really I'm not going to sit here and. take credit for that um I'll take credit. for like the gym that we have in there. and and the way we like everyone works. hard but also like my the CEO that came. in Spenny just he's all about people. people over a profit every day of the. week whatever it is it's people first so. we have such a good like group of. like the leadership theme he's brought. in and like everyone who's involved with.

the business now it's just constant like. transparency and here's where we go. here's what we're doing here's what's. wrong here's what's right we need to. focus more on this we need to do more of. this and just giving them everything. that they they want and like even though. it's yeah you got to work hard you got. to work [ __ ] hard we're still like. we're probably the best place to work. for that I know of self-awareness I amum. I've spoken to a lot of Founders that. have been very very successful. especially out of Europe and one of the.

things that they all seem to have in. common is at some point in their Journey. they developed such a high. self-awareness that as we kind of said. they got out of the way of the business. and just focused on the thing that. they're good. at and that's pretty much what it looks. like you're doing now yeah and I hope. that's right and I've seen people do. that and get it wrong but for me I think. it is right I'm not a businessman and. like for me to be the CEO of this. business it's growing rapidly and has. all these people involved with it like. all I would do is stump the growth of it.

um so like you said earlier today like. there's people that are so much better. at things than you and if you can bring. them into your business they can they. can get on with that stuff and do 10. times better job than you can and lay. the foundations for it to become 500. million or a billion dollar brand or 10. billion dollar brand and you can focus. on what you're actually good at how did. you get them to come I think like you. said then like company culture like. you see if you see represent on LinkedIn. or something you're going to look at it.

and think [ __ ] I want to be in there. these guys and girls are getting after. it like doing gym sessions together at. 6:00 a.m. and they're all out and they. just they're just enjoying the workplace. like but that that comes from being. being a successful brand you can't just. do that from the get-go can't just build. a gym with no money right so you've got. to build that level of success and then. you're able to reinvest into the brand. rather than into your stock and and. building the actual size of the company. because this is always the issue that I.

hear specifically like young Founders or. early stage entrepreneurs talking about. is okay Steve I get it I know we need. great people but how do I persuade great. people like Spencer it's Spenny right. Paul Spencer yeah Paul Spencer um how do. I get him to come work here right when. he's working at like Puma he was at Puma. wasn't he yeah he was you get how did. you get him to come from Puma to. represent built a relationship with him. over many years James was in contact. with him for 5 years since we first met. and then as the business scaled he saw.

what we had like he saw what me and Mike. had together as brothers and he saw what. me Mike James and Steph had as like a. leadership team and he wanted to be. involved with it because he knows that. there's no other options for us it was. like we we're building this there's no. ceiling like what is what is. representing 10 years like what can it. be and he says it every day is like. gives me [ __ ] Goosebumps walking in. here because there's no there's no limit. to it like can do everything if we can. spell sell sportsware we can sell.

vintage t-shirts and we can. sell we can sell salt like it's insane. we can do anything it's it's not really. a brand anymore it's like a lifestyle of. all the business decisions that you've. made where does hiring a CEO to run the. business and you stepping out of the way. rank number one really. yeah my life's just so much better now. that he's involved with the business and. there's a lot of way taken off my. shoulders it's not the first time I've.

heard this I think Ben Francis would. have said the same yeah I bet you know. in julan at hu said the same and that. putting someone in in that CEO role. where it's both like not enjoyable for. you as a creative but also it's not good. for the business because it's not your. skill set and and that yeah it wasn't. enjoyable for a for a long time and you. do it because you had to do it and if I. spent 6 hours in that role of a CEO to. then come out of my room and be like. Mike let's go and Design This thing you.

didn't want to do it there's no energy. that [ __ ] drains your if you're a. creative the business side of the thing. drains your energy it absolutely kills. you even to this day I'll go into a. board meeting and after 15 minutes I'm. just like oh my God I'm I'm done I'm. asleep but I could sit in Mike's room. and design for 12 hours straight with. him how much as a creative and a. creative founder do you have to stay in. touch with the business side of things. though like you spoke about the. boardroom do you still kind of need to.

know what's going on I like to yeah okay. I I love to know as much as I can um but. as well I think you should keep things. away from yourself because it will. inflict you with even if it's like. negative things I think especially if. you're so focused on building this next. collection or whatever it is if you're. hearing negative feedback about some. kind of product that's not working or. something in the business is not working. that affects what you're doing there um. so I think trying to divide them two. things is crucial and I did that with.

Mike from the GetGo cuz I knew that like. negativity and um like feedback loops on. things that weren't great wasn't good. for him when he's designing so kind of. kept him just like strictly to design. but obviously we'd give him facts and. figures and numbers and stuff like that. but try and keep him out of it as much. as he can what was your hardest. day oh um I remember we got a letter. from a company also called represent in.

Europe telling us. that we we were basically. done and yeah that was that was the. worst day in the business yeah what did. the L say just said like that they owned. the trademark in Europe. and we. were they were just going to take us for. everything we had we couldn't carry on. Trading. they wanted all of your money more than.

what we. had and that that like that was in that. same period that 2018 to 20 where we. were just like every day we were waiting. for responses and every day it was like. waking up and thinking [ __ ] like is it. all over today is it all over tomorrow. can we do what we want to do is this. even our business anymore do we even own. what we're doing and like there was. there was only really me Mike and James. that knew about this that was going on. cuz I didn't want to put it out to.

anyone didn't want anyone in the. business to know like this was happening. or even my family um and it really. [ __ ] like restricted us with. everything we did every decision we made. every garment we. sold um so that that that was that was. included in that really dark period they. presumably owned the trademark that you. were using so you had called yourself. represent. but someone else owned the trademark for. Europe yeah and you didn't realize that.

at the time we thought we owned it um. because we had the UK IP and all over. the rest of the world and there was this. dormant we thought it was dormant but. apparently was selling clothing section. 25 or whatever section 25 is like the. clothing category of a trademark right. and at first we thought all right we can. we'll we'll be able to figure this out. let's get some lawyers and we'll go into. it in a certain way and approach it like. this and was just constantly like no no. no like they weren't willing to nothing.

and that was like that was the devil. that W you up every. night um but I used that as like I guess. again it's that chip on the shoulder. thing I kind of used it as that and I. realized that like we had to get we had. to do so much and make so much of the. brand that we didn't want to give it up. and that when it when the time came to. it and he gave in and he wanted to take. money we had the money to be able to do. it this sort of dark period between 2018.

and sort of 2020 was did that cause it. or was that just on top of it that was. like on that was the icing on the cake. right so the business is stagnant and. then you get this letter through someone. wants to take everything you have and we. spent so many months like just sat in. the back office just figuring out what. we're going to recall the brand how. we're going to Rebrand it and like what. it meant if it was not represent anymore. and we wouldn't we couldn't post. anything on social media so it was like. we can't show this guy that the brand.

does well or we're making any money. because then he'll want more and he'll. start seeing all these other things and. we just we were so in our own heads. about it and like all the advice from. lawyers was just just always bad. news um but eventually we got him to. come up come up with a figure that he. wanted for it. and I remember it was I think it was. March 2020 we ended up like signing and. getting getting our name back he wanted.

Millions. yeah um you said the lawyers were giving. you bad news what were they saying just. like they wouldn't respond for three. months the lawyers no no no not the. lawyers his lawyers okay his lawyers. okay so he and then they respond on the. last day of like this three Monon period. but you'd be in the car going to like. Portugal to find out if this. production's ready and you'd get this. long email and your heart just drop and. he'd be like what's going to get said. and then we' go back to the office and. sit there again and try and rethink of. another name and then respond to him.

within a few days and then be another. three months so there was just this like. this dark cloud above our heads all the. time when you say Dark Cloud what does. the Dark Cloud feel. like fly on the wall again yeah just you. not being able to be yourself with. everything you do every decision you. make whether it's buying a [ __ ]. sandwich from the shop it's like that's. not your money to buy that sandwich cuz. someone else owns a name where you're. making that that. money it' like get you like.

that did it interfere with your sleep. your mental health everything um but Al. but like I said earlier it also became. this driving force where like i' use it. as a thing where it was like I know this. Probably sounds so stupid but like I. just got started running in 2020 and I. was like I'm going to go out and run 15K. and if I stop that's like him coming for.

us you know he's like I have to do it I. have to win at everything we do whether. it's just a run or it's a design selling. or whatever it is like you cannot stop. now can't be easy going through that. with your brother as well because you're. going to both be somewhat protective of. each other I imagine and if there's that. dark cloud hanging over both of you at. the same time it's yeah it ruined both. of us it ruined his the way he designed. and yeah everything and then So. eventually you get a break and this guy. agrees to a. figure and at the time I you know.

millions and millions of pounds if. you're making six or seven million in. the business and you're saying it's not. really profitable I'm guessing the money. wasn't in the bank to send this guy. millions of pounds no but the deal went. through in 2020 when we were really like. pushing forward and doing everything we. could to that when that thing happened. we had enough money for it how do you. feel about him this guy that sent you. that ler up until. then just hate just absolute hate. because. we were a bunch of young guys that were. trying to build this business and we had.

20 employees at the time that we'd. probably have to lay off and we'd lose. all the money and we'd be in debt for. the rest of our lives or whatever just. because he decided that he wanted to use. that name to sell nothing basically. wasn't selling anything. um so yeah up until that day I was I was. really upset about it. but after it I kind of just realized. that it is what it is and that's how. things go and. and when I look back at it now it really. [ __ ] catapulted the business cuz.

that's when we came out of our shell and. that's when we started really like. building this brand into a lifestyle and. not just t-shirts on the floor on an. Instagram page did your parents know. yeah that you were going through that. yeah a little bit how I wouldn't tell. them the full extent but why just cuz I. didn't I don't like putting pressure on. other people um especially when it's not. going to affect their lives as such at. the time um but yeah we go to my mom and. dad's every weekend and like it would. always be a subject that came up has he.

replied yet has he responded like have. you heard anything it's just. like yeah it [ __ ] us how how did you. how did you deal with that cuz you're a. young you're a young guy I remember the. first time in business where I. experienced anxiety um I I thought. anxiety was something that happens to. other people yeah and then I remember. the day very clearly where I had to let. the managing director in our New York. office go I had to fire him right and I. was sat in my apartment in Manchester.

thinking about that flight tomorrow. where I I'd asked this person to come. and meet me for a. coffee and I was just like riddled with. anxiety for the first time ever I was. like this is this is what people talk. about when they're talking about mental. health this is it it's happening to me I. Invincible but it's it's suddenly. happening happening to me um obviously. as it always goes it was never it wasn't. as bad as I imagined but it's the imag. that imagination is 95% of it isn't it. have you experienced that before um.

mental. health I always struggle when people ask. me about this cuz no not really um I've. always been pretty solid on where I want. to go who I want to be what I want to do. and just stuck to a plan um anxiety that. that thing that period yeah that caused. me anxiety but not not to an extent. where it was like crippling mhm um but. like I kind of now I kind of enjoy the. the bits of anxiety I get because you.

learn from it right like you going into. that meeting and telling him you're. going to get fired once that's done you. have that relief and then you know next. time you do it this is how it goes so. you lose that 95% of anxiety that. happens before it or you lose a little. bit of it yeah I get really anxious. going on to podcasts like the past few. days I've been really anxious coming on. here um and I've done a hundred of them. before um so you never lose it but. how'd you goope with it just being. prepared as much as you can for whatever.

that thing is so whe if that is you. going to fire someone you got to know. the reasons why you're firing them like. where they can go what's going to be. best for them what's going to be best. for you and just going into it like that. um and then there's nothing really that. can happen within that meeting then that. that can go wrong I think and I think. that kind of clears the. anxiety on your on the brands you know. you've gone through a bit of a. transition you said you was the brand. was stagnant at one point and then it. took off again when you made a lot of.

sort of operational changes and sort of. changes to the business model but at the. heart of the brand there was always. something special you know to even be at. six million revenue and I remember back. when I first discovered represent and. for anyone that doesn't know it's. basically the only thing I wear so like. if you ever see me out or on stage or. whatever I'm wearing represent head to. toe I mean it's it's I wear this I. usually don't wear this on the podcast. but when I'm not on the podcast it's the. only thing I'm wearing and the the 24/7. pants that you made are the only pants.

that I wear everyone knows that like you. know I don't actually have another pair. ofs that's all over um because there's. something there when I discovered the. brand there was always something special. about it and it's hard to explain right. and when you observe the brand it's. clearly turned into a bit of a cult. right a good cult no one's getting. murdered it's a good cult but what is. that thing that the brand always had oh. that's hard that's a hard question it's. really hard I think it's the fact that. it's like two brothers that from. Manchester that don't really belong in.

fashion have come up and done this. really cool thing where they're proven. that we don't need to just follow the. rule book and we can do whatever we want. to do and sell whatever we want to sell. and like it's still even though it's a. huge brand now it's still like a small. thing where like the Owners Club for. existence like which is like one range. within it one range within it where like. you see someone else wi an own's Club. hoodie like you see them two guys not at. each other and it's like yeah part of. something like we've kind of built this. community that is it stems from the.

people that are in the business but it's. so much bigger and it's on a global. scale but it's still like pretty small. and it's it's like a it's a family. business right it's run by two brothers. and everyone within the business feels. like family and when you buy a piece of. that product we're giving them way more. than what they expect like I my one of. my main things is like quality and I. want the customer to think um I follow. these guys kind of cool I might try a. hoodie and they get way more than they. expect and that's when like they become.

part of that cult you're exceeding their. expectations exceeding their. expectations way more than what they. thought it would but for you to exceed. my expectations there must be something. going on in the office yeah that isn't. going on in the other fashion brands. offices yeah and what is that thing. that's happening at represent that's. probably not happening at your. competitive place I think it's my innate. desire to just have just be the best. however we show up whether it's a popup. whether it's a run Club whether it's the.

the feel of a garment or the delivery. saying it's going to take three days and. it takes one day I think it's just my. innate desire to just really be the best. at how we show up as a brand. exhausting because because the reason. why people don't do that is because it's. easier to cut the corner right it's. easier to send it 3 days it's easier to. not really care about the quality of. course but like it's so personal to us. and it's all we were and it's all we. obsess over every day so it's got to be. good what do people not see in terms of.

the effort that goes into the work. between you and your brother Michael. what is what is it that people don't see. they don't see Mike enough yeah I'm. trying to get him to come out more with. how how he does things and these process. and stuff but you like with him you're. seeing a guy that is in a room designing. all day every day with his Graphics team. and it's not just him it's the full. scale of the business the logistics the.

production the Garment TX the guys that. are designing all the the actual. garments and like the content team like. all of them are so bought into it and. everyone we bring up to the office. whether it's a store or another brand or. whatever like they're [ __ ] Blown Away. no one can believe what's going on in. there and it's this ecosystem that's. been built by spy and us as leaders and. and really like bled this Mission into. everyone that's in there that like we're. creating something that's going to be.

like like phenomenal and something. that'll last way longer than what we. lost ourselves when you've put so much. of your heart into the designs and then. you go on Instagram and someone's copied. it yeah and it's your brother's design. that they've copied and I see I see. people copying your stuff all the. time how's that it's good it means it. means the Design's good right no that's. not how you felt the first time no at. first you [ __ ] hate it and you think. people are taking food off your table.

and in some cases that's right um and if. if it's a brand that's like very similar. to us and they're trying to do the same. they're at the same price points as us. and they're in our market and they're. taking market share then yeah it's like. they shouldn't be doing that and it'll. bite them in the ass when it comes to it. and at the end of the day it's who's in. it for the long run right copying other. people we used to do it when we we. started I'm not going to sit here and. say everything was origin. we've all been there and done that I. don't think I don't think when you're at.

a larger scale you do do it but then you. see brands that are huge High luxury. fashion brands go and do it to a small. designer um so I think it's just it's. just what comes with life I'm sure. you'll get it with podcasts it's the. same thing right you just got to laugh. at. it yeah I've thought about how you know. my journey with with people like copying. what you do or whatever has been it's. been on a bit of a journey and it's. difficult cuz it's because especially. when you care so much about something. someone copies it it really hits you in. the heart to some degree it's like.

especially if you can like remember. where you came up with that idea and. then but I but you're right it's an. inevitability and it's also um I always. think about how the most important stuff. is actually the part of the iceberg. under the water yeah and even with. design I I try and get this across to my. team that like it's not even the design. really that counts it's the whole brand. they're bu they're not buying into this. word yeah they're not buying into that. they're buying into this essence of like. them becoming part of this club and like. they're getting this Prestige and.

getting the workouts and they're all. part of this whole like lifestyle that. we're portraying and doing and living. and becoming the most important stuff. they can't copy no one can copy that. they can copy a logo and they can't copy. like what what you stand for. right so you've gone from being a. business that was making sort of 8. million in 2018 to as we sit here now I. think last year you did about about 100. million dollar yeah which is exceptional. money is now um large in your life you.

I'm sure you run the numbers and you go. [ __ ] I'm worth this much money if I sold. it for this [ __ ] try not. to but do you think uh do you think. about how do you think about money now. I'm not going to lie and sit here and. say like oh money's not an issue money's. not a a thing that drives me because it. is and I think it is with everyone and. I'll speak to billionaires and they'll. say on camera. that they're doing it for this and they. doing it for that and then they'll say. off camera like I want to get [ __ ].

Rich course I want to be rich everyone. wants to be rich there's there's no. negativity that comes with having a lot. of money and I think that society and. the way it's perceived now is like not a. good thing that you're making a lot of. money like I want I want represent to be. doing billions I want everyone in the. business to be extremely wealthy I want. the leadership team to be able to have. generational wealth like that that's. first and foremost like I I like I love. that why not but if you had a billion.

pounds now would you be any happier I I. don't measure anything on happiness like. I I'm I'm happy to sit in design for 6. hours or I'm happy to go for a run and. like absolutely ruin my legs like that. makes me happy I also like doing hard. things and rewarding myself um and. that's NE that's not really money but. like like I said earlier money never has. a negative impact I don't. think but on that point about giving you. a billion dollars if I give you a.

billion dollars and it's not going to. make you any any happier then what's the. point in the the money I think it will. make me happier really yeah course dude. I could my family would be set forever. all my team would be set forever like. that in makes me happy imagine me being. able to turn up to my family and being. like. okay Dad I know you've worked all your. life here's here's this enjoy it what's. the exit strategy per se I don't know. anything else so why would I want to.

leave how are you going to get the. billion if you don't leave we'll do it. in. profits um no I don't I don't want a I. don't want a billion dollars in my bank. account like that's not needed. but when you say what's the exit. strategy I'm like when I watched you. leave your business I was always. thinking like you already had the the. podcast lined up and you're already. ready to move into this thing anyway so. it made sense for you I don't have that. and I also don't want that like I love.

represent I wake up and it's represent. everything everything I talk to about. everyone is the brand everything I do is. the brand that what like even bringing. my fitness into this thing is my brand. and like I've been able to then build. 247 into this brand which is actually. just like more of a passion project for. me than um than building a business and. even though like all the athletes that. are involved like I'm able to suck so. much like knowledge and worth out of. these people personally for myself.

through the brand so me then moving into. something else or just selling the. business doesn't make sense when your. identity and your profession become so. intrinsically. linked there's a cost to that right. because it must feel you know you talked. about back back backs beinging against. the wall. um God if the brand were to go down down. if the revenue started to Plum it and it. went out of Vogue or whatever they call. it like it just was no not popular.

anymore that's linked to your like. self-esteem and you're like self-worth. and your. identity 100% and look there is days. where it doesn't do well there is still. days now where we'll launch products and. we'll have a nightmare with it how do. that feel honestly it [ __ ] with you. [ __ ] with your confidence um but it. also gives you a realization that you're. not super human and you can't do. everything and not everything your touch. turns to gold and then you got to go. back to the drawing board and do it. again what does that look like so that. you think about the last time it.

happened how did it feel and how long. did that feeling last it lasts a few. days and I'll speak to Spenny about it a. lot over them few days and he'll. reassure that something else is going to. take that feeling away from it and it. usually does and as well like it it's. not all about small failures along the. way and there's so many exciting things. that when something small trips you up a. little bit you've got to realize like no. this is for the long term like the. future is this is in 10 years let's look. back at this as like a a learning curve.

amongst all of this you've still got to. figure out how to have a life like a. personal life because regardless of how. intrinsically connected you are to the. brand represent you're still going to. need to have a life you're still going. to need to be a George in there. somewhere yeah and I never really did. for a long time past 10 years I've not. really had a. life not nothing outside of represent. but I've built repres into my life in. the moment I think about you know times.

in my career where I was absolutely all. in on something to the point that I was. like seven days a week in this [ __ ]. office and even the weekends when. there's nothing to do I'm just in there. cuz I got new mates dude so that's when. I realized so them Sundays where you'd. be sat at home on your own no one would. be messaging you you can't do anything. with people in the business because it's. their time off with the families that's. when I realized like [ __ ] I'm like I'm. probably too bought into this were you. lonely alone but never lonely never I.

never got to the point. where I felt lonely may maybe a little. bit but like I would I would distract. myself with going working out for five. hours you. know or just putting my headphones in. and listening to a book and just just. going and coming back and then the. Sunday's done anyway Sundays were my. worst days because I didn't have anyone. to do anything with. like I'd go I'd go and train at a local. gym where there's a big Community there.

for the from 6:00 a.m. till 9:00 a.m. and I come home I just sit there and. think when's it Monday isn't that funny. text my mom like what you up to and she. be like oh we're actually up in Scotland. doing this trip I be like [ __ ] I can't. even go and see my. mom so yeah I guess I guess there is a. little bit of loneliness in there yeah I. was lonely but I didn't know it at the. time yeah I only know it in hindsight. cuz I look back at the way I was living. and right yeah I was filling the Gap the.

Sunday Saturday Summer evenings holidays. even Christmases like cuz I was in. Manchester my family are in the. southwest I was filling it with work. like often just like pointless work. absolutely unneeded stuff a lot of the. time it's it's great and you can go out. and you can spend a few hours on your. own and write a load of things down that. you need to do that next week or but you. need a team to do. anything like I can't get anything done. without the team and that's that's one. thing I would realize every weekend that.

like I'm wasting my time pretending to. work it's exactly what I was. doing relationships romantic. relationships let's start with. non-romantic relationships in fact you. talk about having to shed people in. terms of like negative influences in. order to change your. life people ask me about this all the. time which is yeah you know how. important is the environment on personal. and professional success I think it's. everything I think your ecosystem that.

you build around you is everything. whether that's the distance it takes you. to get to the gym or the people you. follow on social media if you're. following Joe from school that's out. every night drinking and you're watching. them stories even if it's 20 seconds of. your day you're wasting your time. watching them stories and you're also. looking at things that are just. absolutely pointless to your life so why. don't you go and follow someone who's. done what you want to do or he's doing. what you want to do or who actually. inspires you and just clear out all the.

[ __ ] and you you're going to be so. much more in your in the right head. space if you do something like. that did you do that did you clear out. yeah did it a lot of. times got a lot of bad messages from. doing it really. Jo okay yeah why did you unfollow me do. you explain it to him um yeah just tell. them how it is. just say look man I don't want to watch. you sit anymore so romantic.

relationships then how has that been. because it it must must be pretty tricky. with the level of obsession that you. have to maintain a healthy happy. romantic relationship nonexistent didn't. didn't entertain it for so many years. tried it. once maybe like when I was 25 26 and. just didn't work Why didn't it work I. was obsessed with work and I was also. like. I didn't know who I was and what I. wanted to be and it was before that era.

before that time of mine where I changed. so it just I didn't like who I was and. obviously that doesn't work when you're. in a relationship you got to you got to. love yourself first right MH um and then. after that I just kind of just said no. I'm not doing it and didn't up until. recently really didn't entertain it at. all for so many years you got a. girlfriend have I no not not really kind. of would she answer this question the. same way she got a boyfriend she's got a.

boyfriend no are you a little bit um are. you you're an avoidant aren't you do you. know the the attachment Styles have you. heard about the attachment Styles no. what's that three attachment Styles. you've got the secures they're the ones. that just have the perfect relationships. right you know they're like no problems. they're like you know and then you've. got the anxious ones who clingy like. need like they need like need attention. yeah exactly and then you've got the. avoidant who kind of run right strike me. as an avoidant um I don't know what I am. I don't I I really don't know I'm.

definitely not an attachment one no um. and I just always thought it would. be a pressure on myself to then and I. didn't want to let someone else down. because of what I was doing with work. and I don't want to have to explain to. someone like this is my business this is. my life I'm doing this all the time when. they want to see you and they want they. want your attention and stuff but now. like hiring spany and having more time. and actually coming moving out here I've. got time now like my day is done way. before what it was at home I would work.

from or i' train and then I would work. from I'd be in the office at half 5 in. the morning I'd leave at 7:00 p.m. and. I'd go to bed so there was no time but. now I can wake up early get all the. stuff done with the guys at home work. with the guys over here building out. representing LA and then I can be done. by like 2 3 p p.m. a lot of days so I. have then time to like I guess date. goals and. things like that and how's that going. hate it really no not I hate it I guess.

guess you do hate it because I was I. have this [ __ ] feeling. where I'm not fulfilling what I should. be doing and I'm kind of giving myself a. disservice if I'm out doing something. else and I think a lot of entrepreneurs. and people who run businesses get that. where like if you're not fully into the. business like with every minute of your. time you feel like you're not doing the. right thing and I'm I'm starting to try. and get out like a guilt feelings yes. very guilty yeah and that actually.

caused me a little bit of what we think. is anxiety I don't know if it is anxiety. but it really yeah yeah I would wake up. the next day and be like [ __ ] I've like. spend four hours with this person that. I'm not interested in seeing that's I've. wasted four hours where I could have. been working could have been building. the brand could have been doing other. things sounds like a lot when I say a. lot I mean like a lot of a weight to. carry yeah like to not be able to go on. a date with someone for four hours. without waking up the next day feeling. anxious about how you spent your time it.

feels like your passions become a bit of. a prison yeah a self-inflicted prison. but I love it and and it's a privilege. to have it but I'm I'm starting learning. like I said I'm kind of got a girlfriend. right now um kind of got a girlfriend. you're in so much trouble you have no. idea that's. fine she's oh George is on a podcast I. have listen to this she's going to click. it we'll do a chapter on YouTube which. is called George's girlfriend we'll put.

it in the trailer you're going to be. some serious trouble absolutely fine. Valentine's day yesterday and you're. throwing under the. bus interesting but it does it sounds it. sounds like a little bit of a prison. yeah you know um not being able to take. your foot off the pedal at all without. feeling anxious MH are you happy yeah. and what does that mean that means I I. wake up I'm [ __ ] thankful for what. I've got and what I've built and who I'm.

around and like my brother and my family. and like I enjoy being able to just do. what I want to do and that is the work I. guess most of the time you know when. people talk about work life balance M. what's your honest opinion of that. [ __ ] if you actually want to build. something that's going to stand the test. of time and make you very successful and. Rich and happy and bring other people. with you it's going to take everything I. fully believe that I don't think you can. half ass it I don't think it can be a. side project and I don't think it can be.

something that's just 3 hours a day I. think you've got to go fully into it to. become like high level achiever like. actually a. winner what are you willing to sacrifice. for that everything whatever it takes. why not I'm already into it now so I've. got to got to go fall on look Kobe. Bryant wasn't doing three throws at. [ __ ] 3:00 a.m. for no reason you got. you got to be the best you got to do. everything right I always talk about the. cost that comes with that and the.

sacrifice are you willing to sacrifice. you not having a family yourself for the. time being yeah maybe later on in life. when it when it. becomes something that I can step aside. from even more then yeah you're going to. want to step aside from it because. you're getting anxiety doing 4our dates. how you but I'm learning I'm learning. I'm starting to do it like I said yeah. you've seen progress in that definitely. yeah I think it's just about building. that muscle of understanding you can do. other things and realizing it's not.

going to come crashing down if you take. your foot off the break for a second but. still knowing that you're giving it your. all when you are in. it is there a point where I always think. about bbery as an example the bbery. story of how they kind of went out of. fashion because they became too popular. what I'm trying to say is like bbery was. aspirational so lots of people start. wearing in it some less aspirational. people start wearing it people start. knocking it off and selling it for super.

cheap in markets then eventually it's no. longer aspirational right because. because of because it got so popular. that it becomes uncool is do you worry. about that as a risk factor for. represent so that's like a life cycle. right and that comes every couple years. or every seven years whatever they may. be in the industry but there's always. different markets to push and pull on. also like represent is so small in terms. of size compared to burbury at the. moment we have a very core customer base.

where we kind of can identify them and. we know where they are and what they're. doing and until that goes mainstream. which I think usually happens probably. at like 250 300 million. Revenue um I don't it's not a worry as. such at the moment I used to worry about. a lot but like when Spenny came in he. was handling a $500 million business. he's like we're barely touching the. sides 20% of our revenues in the US. that's only $20 million they could sell. $20 million out of LA and not see the. product for the next six months you. wouldn't even see someone wearing it so.

at this point no but it it is something. that we will always think about and. always you've always got to limit your. distribution and make sure you're. selling it in the right places and look. we are still like a luxury brand we. we're in the best stores in the world. like it's not like you can walk into a. Pon and pick us up so it's it's still. not a mainstream brand and it's. expensive I was wondering if it if. that's less of a threat in on the 247. side of things where it's more about. like utility and less about like fashion.

because you know everyone wears Nike. yeah and no one's like oh my God I'm not. wearing Nike because they're wear it you. know yeah biggest Sports we brand in the. world and how are they able to tier a. Travis Scott or a virgila blow Jordan. one that's going for $5,000 but they're. still selling tracksuits at $20 and you. can still see everyone in Gold's Gym to. everyone in [ __ ] Equinox wearing it. so there's there's just te to everything. right there's a trickle down system with. everything I wonder if that's is that.

because it's like more of your utility. product than a fashion product I think. so with Nike yeah definitely um because. it's not really like a fashion brand. that's able to sell like a $20 item and. then like a Ralph Lauren oh really do. they so cheap and expensive stuff well. if you look at Ralph Lauren most like it. looks amazing from the outside and they. have all these beautiful stores in like. the best the best spots in London and. New York and la and most of their. revenues done through Outlet at $20.

polos or $15 polos 60% of their sales is. a polo top which I'm not I'm not exactly. sure on but that's what I hear so. there's ways you. can I guess smoke and mirror it disguise. things and do other things but for us. like we we're pretty solid on where we. want to be in terms of the marketplace. and the price points and we'll grow that. way rather than having to teer things. to an extent what are the most important. because I think most people will be. listening to this conversation in.

essence because they want to know how. you've done what you've done you know. they want to know like the transferable. principles behind how it's possible. to scale a very successful business that. also is unique because it's quite a cult. business you've got like an incredibly. cultish brand you know you do like run. clubs and almost a thousand people will. show up on the street corner or you you. drop something and you sell thousands in. minutes yeah um what are those. principles that you would maybe say to a.

18yearold George or to that kid in your. DMs that's asking for the the. principles principles that only you. could have learned in hindsight I think. it's about creating the DNA of what the. brand is and sticking to that not. vearing off in different directions and. changing everything up every so often. based on Trends so I think it's about. holding a DNA where that's through thick. and thin so whether it's not right for. that time or it is right for that time. there'll always be life cycles in. fashion and things will go out and in.

fashion but if you can kind of cultivate. the look that you want that's that's. first and foremost what it is like if. you look at 247 and represent 247 looks. like represent but it's active we it's. not like it's a whole different thing. that looks like Lululemon like it still. looks like represent so I think making. sure the DNA in the brand is very like. visible where does the DNA come from. just personal preference what we like to. wear what I what I feel like I look good. in what Mike feels like he looks good in.

what the team love and just building. that over time step by step just. creating products that we feel like is. either missing or we just want for. ourselves to. wear and what would you say about hard. work as a principal I think it's. everything I really do think it's. everything I meet a lot of people. especially out here that have their. little hands in different businesses. lots of different pies but but don't. work hard at any of them and none of. them really ever succeed or they only. own 1% when you find out they've sold a.

business um so I think it's all about. just. like going all in on something that you. own I think it's hard if you were just a. small minority shareholder in something. like that then is not really your. passion it's someone else's or it's a. big group of. peoples but when people think about hard. work they you know and people advise. someone and say you have to work hard if. you want to be successful people say. that's toxic yeah don't.

care what what's. toxic that word that word is just makes. no sense you're going to encourage. people to be burnt out yeah I think you. can come out the other side of burnt out. like the more you do right the more you. can do so if you're working hard at. something and you're starting to feel. like it's getting a bit too much the. pressure is a bit too much you carry on. doing it you're going to come out of it. it's not like it it's not like you're. just going to end nothing ends you just. figure out different ways to actually.

make it successful or you'll something. will work and you'll be like oh [ __ ]. then your energy goes back up and you. start going down there and and it works. I don't. think I don't know I think there's a lot. of negativity around working hard and I. don't like that there's there's going to. be a kid listening right now that's like. 18 16 and they just can't find the. motivation whatever that means they. can't find the motivation to get up and. go to the gym they've got some idea but. it's still on the sofa that they had it. on um like what what what do you say to.

that young man or. woman is the first thing to get the the. wheels in motion [ __ ]. motivation I don't have motivation a lot. of time it's actually more about. discipline it's about just getting it. done get up and get it done like with. anything with work with working out with. creating a product with building a brand. with relationships whatever it's. discipline over motivation motivation is. a small thing that can last 2 minutes or. an hour motivation can come from.

listening to a a song on your. iPod if you got discipline you're. willing to do it every single day of. your life and knowing that it's going to. take so long to do it you just get up. and do it you don't even think about. motivation and and what is and what is. discipline then discipline. is an instruction manual like what is. discipline to you yeah I guess it is an. instruction manual I guess it's a list. of things that you must do for yourself.

to to become what you want to be. and it's I guess it's a deciding factor. on whether you're going to do something. or not and it goes back to what you said. about like you drew a picture of. yourself of what you wanted to look like. but you also wrote out like a set of. principles or values that you wanted to. embody yeah and then you're living your. life by that as opposed to how you feel. every day yeah yeah when you put it that. way that that's what it is and.

eventually it becomes part of them it. becomes a muscle right and you grow that. muscle and you constantly like breaking. it down and regrowing it and them. principles just become your life you. know they say like habits what is it. thoughts become habits and then habits. become principles and that becomes you. as a. person a lot of people just don't think. they're moldable goes back to what we. were saying earlier about like we just. don't think that we can change ourselves. yeah but you your evidence of that. really remarkable evidence of.

that yeah and there's a lot of people. there are there's so many inspiring. stories out there on social media and in. books and podcasts and stuff that all. these people that have completely. changed their lives it just takes a lot. of time and a lot of effort are you. confident I'm I'm not going to lie I. still have like doubts about things a. lot of the time especially in business. but with myself yeah I'm I'm conf. what do you have doubts about in. business just like you said before maybe. one day the the revenue stops maybe one.

day it gets too popular maybe one day. something doesn't work. out maybe one day a competitor comes up. at the side of you and starts taking. everything from you the key to growing a. business is making sure that it's. scalable and this comes with integrating. into the right platforms early in the. game to support your growth a platform. that's helped me and my team to do this. is Shopify who I'm sure you know by now. because they do sponsor this podcast. Shopify is a Commerce platform. revolutionizing millions of businesses. worldwide we recently launched our.

second version of the derio conversation. cards on Shopify which would not have. been possible without Shopify when I. started podcasting an online store was. the furthest thing from my mind but now. thanks to how simple it is to use the. platform it's made this whole process so. unbelievably easy it's actually the. internet's best converting checkout 36%. better on average compared to other. leading Commerce platforms if you guys. haven't tried Shopify on your business. owners go and try it now because you can.

sign up for a $1 per month trial period. just by heading to shopify.com. Bartlet and you can get started for $1. What if Michael turned around and said. you know what I'm done he just said I. just can't do this anymore I I'm going. to just you know I'm done um i' probably. cry really yeah definitely um and I just. try and figure out why what it is and. then try and get him back in he said no.

I'm done said and just that was it. forever it had suck it would suck a lot. um because I've been since school we've. been together doing this forever so for. him then not to be. there it'. be he'd be pretty shitty because like. who are you doing it for then like I'd. [ __ ] die for Mike do you know what I. mean like if if someone had if someone. said I'm going to I've got to kick you. out of the.

business but Mike stays I'd go like this. this isn't really for me I guess it's. for. him and like it's kind of at that point. where that can't. happen he enjoys it too much we love. doing this so it's interesting that. thought experiment though kind of. illuminates much of the reason why. you're doing it in the first place. because the first thing you said was who. am I doing it for then. yeah but if I had asked you earlier who. you're doing this for you would I don't. know if you would have said I'm doing it.

for Mike no I am I'm doing it for Mike. I'm doing it for the team I'm doing it. for my family definitely but if the team. if the team leaves you're still going to. crack on yeah it's just a new team but. if Mike leaves if Mike if Mike leaves I. don't know if I carry on that's so. difficult to. answer I had a business partner and the. reason I asked that question is I. thought the same I thought one day I. played out my scenario that they quit. and I remember thinking to myself the. exact same thing who am I doing this for. then like we started this together so.

the mission is actually me and you. getting to the finish line and you get. excited when they get excited or like if. if Mike sends me a design that he's in. love with and I'm like [ __ ] hell yeah. this is insane and you just have that. energy between you if that wasn't there. anymore it yeah it would suck how. important do you think having a. co-founder is I think massively I know. earlier when you said you get lonely. like I think that is a major Block in. loneliness cuz he is always there um and.

I. have like I I always have him to lean. into and I would never put pressure and. stress on him in a personal way but I. know he's there if that happened. um so I think it's it's a massive thing. but who you going to business with is. another massive thing and like you've. got to be completely different to each. other and even though we look the same. and we seem the same like we are very. different people what have you learned. from the bad people that you've hired.

the ones that didn't. work in terms of when I say that I. mean what have you learn is a bad. quality in someone to work with to build. a business with to. employee um stuck in old ways and not. being open-minded to change I think a. lot of people are very restrictive when. especially if you're bringing someone. higher up from them then some people. will always like backfire against that. and that's a bad quality and get it's a.

human nature and I understand it and you. can always try and like change the way. they think about things but if they're. not willing to accept that change. especially when you're in a growing. company like there's some people and. Spenny always tells me this there's some. people that will take you to 50 mil and. there's some people that'll take you to. 250 mil and there's some people take you. to a billion and it won't be the same. people and you've just got to accept. that and you got to do everything you. can for them people at that that time. however however far they go with the. brand I I actually had a conversation. with a Founder the other day whose.

business I've just invested in and it's. the exact same conversation that nobody. seems to talk about because in both your. case and mine we both did the same thing. we hired a bunch of young people yeah. that that were probably the ones that. were willing to come and work for us. that were also um the ones we could. maybe manage yeah and then the business. grows and the problem you have is the. next set of talent you need um to get. you up to the next rung in this in on. the. ladder they need to come in above the.

people that were there from the. beginning yeah and the originals don't. love that MH because that kind of blocks. their progression just that's what they. think that's what they think but no it's. not true is it because they can learn. from them things and then they can step. up it just takes more time or they. they'll get more knowledge out of it if. that person does come in but ego's. getting the way. yeah ego get in the way and like I said. some people are they're not openminded. to that and they also very people get.

comfortable they get comfortable in that. position that they're in and they don't. want anyone to report into and they. don't want to do this and do that but. that's life. right what is um what's next for. you this year yeah start of the Year. isn't it I guess we're building out. women's wear in the brand we are opening. three stores this year which will be our. first stores we've not done a store yet. um and it's something that we've wanted. to do for so many years but just finding. the right places and being in the right.

space for it why why stores because. people think that's going against the. way that the world's going everything's. getting more digital course yeah and. that's what that's I think that's a. major advantage like same thing happened. in Co everyone pulled away from their. Productions and stopped selling garments. for a while whereas we were like okay we. will take everyone's production space. and we'll start selling online and then. we made huge. relationships with factories that we. usually couldn't get in and now we're. like the best in them factories and. doing everything the right way with them.

because we supported them during them. times but for the for the store aspect. it's like we have these communities all. over the globe where people want to be a. part of the brand and the showing up to. run clubs and we'll go and do one in. Dubai or we'll do one in La like I want. somewhere for them guys to be able to. come into the brand them guys and girls. to come into the brand and be able to. smell it and feel it and touch it and. have it way more professional than than. just walking into a store and seeing it. on a rail or see it on a shoe shelf so. it's about creating an area where the.

community can come in and feel more of. the brand and who we are and what we do. and then hopefully roll that out. globally and then 247 has a lot of focus. this year usually it's just like a. couple people in the building that are. doing it and now we've got a full team. working on that we're trying to expand. that hopefully I'd like to open some. gyms with it um the concept for that is. is maybe next year but not this year and. then I'm building another brand called. Cadence um which is an electrolyte drink.

high sodium first ready to drink sodium. in a can um in the market and that's. something that I've been working on for. the past year and a half with a guy. called Ross out here and that that's. because going back to. 201920 when I started getting into. fitness and lifestyle and health like. electrolytes just became something that. I was consistently taking and I've not. been sick one day since then and I've. never had my energy levels drop and I've.

never had bad sleep and not I don't get. headaches anymore and it just seems like. this the salt that's in there is what is. causing like this constant stream of. energy and it's supporting my workouts. and I love flavored drinks so I thought. why can't I make my own version of that. and I tested it out with a collaboration. we did earlier last year. um and it seemed our customer really. wanted it so I was like We'll build. another brand and put it under that.

umbrella and see how it goes what is the. goal here I think the goal is like I. mean just generally like with all of. this stuff like what's the goal I I want. rep I want represent to. be a lifestyle and not a brand I want it. to be unconventional and I want it to be. more than just clothes and I say that a. lot recently but I just want it to not. just be about the clothes I want the. clothes to be a byproduct. why why not no one's really done that. yet everyone talks about brand but I. mean what's the point like you know you.

got you got the jinkx you got the the. 247 range you got the the sort of. original um represent range what is the. finish line here that's the good thing I. don't think there is one I don't think. there is a I don't think there's a limit. to what it can be and what this thing. that started offers 25 screen printed. T-shirts can become over the next 100. years or so but do you not sit around. with Michael and go listen we'll get to. two billion we'll sell it there and. we'll just get a couple of Yachts. no no like look at Ben Francis they got.

valued at a billion he's still in the. business it's not it doesn't become. about the money right it's not about the. money it's about what you're actually. able to do and do some things different. and like not be conventional and try and. just I I just want to do something. that's that no one's done you know why. not and I ask these questions you know. I'm playing devil's advocate here. because I think some people think that. this is all kind of like a means to an. end with entrepreneurship generally it's.

like a means to an end yeah but when I. speak to entrepreneurs like you it's so. clear that it's much more about the. journey and the journey you're like it. just seems like you probably want to die. on The Journey at some point yeah well. you're speaking to like a lot of. successful people and people that have. been in it for a long time right you're. not speaking to those guys that are. walking around on the street saying I'm. going to build this and I'm going to. sell it in 3 years for six billion or. yeah yeah yeah this is this is my exit. strategy and they've just started they. never work no one ever that never works.

for anybody like that's a [ __ ] way. of thinking you're talking to the people. that have really bought into their own. [ __ ] brand and they're living it and. they're loving it and it's for forever I. guess it's a mission isn't it there yeah. that's their mission you're that's kind. of the tagline that I associate to you. because you you post that a lot yeah is. it's it's a mission and there's. something difference between a business. and a mission that's clearly what You'. capsulated what what are you what are. you good at are you good at. business I'm good at understanding.

business um but when you say good at. business what do you. mean I mean you can Define it yourself. but I guess what people typically think. of as businesses like operations Finance. processes no I'm not I'm. not not at all I think that's actually. will be really wonderful news to a lot. of people because there's a lot of. people out there that think you have to. be good at business to own a business no. I think it's about starting off and just. figuring things out along the way and.

putting people in place of them things. that you're not good at that are way. better than you would it as soon as we. started doing that that's when the. business took. off George we have a closing tradition. on this podcast where the last guest. leaves a question for the next guest not. knowing who they're going to be leaving. it for the question that's been left for. you. is what is something in your life that. you assume to be true but you haven't. yet deeply. questioned this is quite funny because. it's something that I'm really.

interested in but like don't don't talk. about it a lot um I. guess whether like the aliens are. amongst. us not what I was expecting you to say. no not at all and it's completely. different to what we've just talked. about for the past however long but that. really like interests me um the fact. that like there's all these different. sto and conspiracies and things that are. going on constantly especially now more. than ever and I wonder if it would. change the world if one of the governing.

bodies or whoever it was actually came. out and said yes this is this is this. and these are with us I think it's just. amazing we're going into like the world. of like simulations and Ai and all that. stuff now I say I saw that thing come. out with chat GPT the other day Sora. where they can create they could do text. to video yeah and that's when I I saw. the first reply to Sam alman's tweet. said this is the technology that was. used to create us and and it just. wobbled my brain a little bit because I. thought now we're getting to a point.

where we've got these Apple Vision Pro. headsets and we're able to make video. with. text and I'm looking at this woman in HD. that's like 85 years old that was made. by typing a couple of words and you just. assume any rate of. improvement and eventually you get to. something that is indistinguishable from. the world real yeah reality yeah we. might even be a video game I think. there's I've heard Elon talk about this. and he's like he talks about it he said. so much that he's had to ban the. conversation right because you fall into.

a little bit of a hole Yeah you you. literally have no idea who we are what. we're doing why we why we're here and. yeah is there an alternate universe or. are we just living in someone else's. head I don't know so interesting thank. you Georgia thank you for a number of. reasons thank you for dressing me for. the last uh three years because um I. think your clothes are the best no thank. it's a very subjective thing but but in. terms of quality and consideration. sometimes you can tell when someone has.

gone the extra mile in a piece of work. right pretty much always when they've. thought about things from first. principles they've really thought about. all the decisions and that's what. represent has always been to me a brand. that always thinks about the decisions. um and it's different in every way as I. said from an endtoend experience it's. different and you can tell that the. brand comes from somebody somewhere. heart right and you can you can tell the. difference again with Brands where you. know someone didn't really care about. the process and they were maybe copying. something else and then there's this. other brand called represent where it's.

clearly coming from someone somewhere. heart and their own unique Vision that's. why I've always loved the brand um and. that's why I think you've been able to. cultivate this cult because there's. something in humans where they can tell. the real from the not so real yeah they. can just feel it we can feel it and. that's what represent has always been. and that's why I've always been so. fascinated by you and your brother um. and a huge supporter of both both of you. and on like a human level you're just. both just [ __ ] great guys I. appreciate and I say that behind your. back all the time I go that guy's a. great guy he's just like a really nice.

humble human being and on paper you know. people might look and go he has a lot of. reasons not to be yeah this guy looks. like [ __ ] something that was. literally drawn on a piece of paper by. an alien. like but but and he's got this. incredible business but he's a really. good human being and so is Michael so. thank you for the inspiration keep doing. what you're doing cuz the mission that. you're on is um inspiring many other. people to start missions of their own. yeah I think that's something that the. world needs a lot more of so I. appreciate it thanks for having me on. loved. [Music].

it.