Editor Of Vogue (Edward Enninful OBE): How To Become No.1 In Your Industry Against All The Odds!

it feels like you've lived an impossible. life but with it came over. I just needed to be able to look at. myself and not hate myself. the first black man to become. editor-in-chief of British Vogue one of. the fashion Industries biggest names. he's single-handedly. how's your father know he would have. slit your throat I grew up petrified of. him each day I was being told you're.

going to be a lawyer or a doctor I knew. that wasn't going to happen at the age. of 13 I came from another country 16 I. was modeling 18 I was an editor it was. quite fast work was everything for me. there was this notion that women of. color uncovers don't sell I knew I would. need to do something about it I didn't. just create a magazine that looked good. but it's so financially successful. I was just so consumed with work and. work was where I felt like an imposter. really I mean I never look at anything.

I've done and think this is amazing I. wouldn't sleep that leads you to. drinking and that leads you to drugs you. always have to fight but that fight. comes at a cost I woke up one day and I. saw these black markings in my vision I. was so scared I knew after that that I. had to change my life you sit here as. one of the most successful people in. your industry what would 51 year old. Edward say to 18 year old Edward the one. regret I do have is.

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it feels like you've lived and traveled. an impossible life. you sit here as one of the most. successful people in your industry but. when I read about your earliest context. that's why I use the word impossible. can you give me the information I need. to know to understand how the man that. sits in front of me today. got here and I'm referring to that early.

information. the context that molded you into the man. you are today. thank you for having me. um so as you read in the book I grew I. was born in a city called takoradi in. Ghana West Africa. my dad was in the Army he was a major. um my mother was the seamstress and we. lived on a military base in the town so. already there was. that was a weird. um way of growing up where you are in a.

town but you're not in the town you're. on the military base with its own sets. of rules and. and traditions so that's where I was and. my mother was a seamstress. and I grew up in love with clothes in. love with my mother and in love with. clothes and I was always with her you. know when her customers came in and my. mother had was one of those rare. women who had their own business. you know in the 70s in Africa she had.

anatellier with about 40 women so I'd. spent days. just really helping her. fit women into clothes and you know. little African boys standing around the. corner listening to the gossip being. sued away but I always say. that's when I developed my love for. women. all women because you know my mother's. friends my aunts. we're all Bodacious women of different. sizes big women if you.

you know if you want to put it that way. but they were just beautiful and. vivacious and alive so really that was. that was how um I grew up in Ghana I. mean you know I was always a sickly. child so I would always be with my. mother. a lot. and I really learned about sort of women. and what really makes them tick you know. I always say I can tell when a woman is. happy and addressed by the flick of a. wrist or a little Winds of the of the. nose and so my mother was a really great.

influence I didn't know anything about. fashion. but I had an aunt who had a salon called. Dolly dots. and she was a hairdresser and that was. like paradise for me. and it was there that I discovered. magazines. there was a magazine called ebony which. is an American magazine that you'd get. every month another one called jet. and another one called time. and I would literally devour those pages. and.

yeah I was I was really happy it was a. really happy childhood. and then we had to move to London. because there was a military coup and my. dad. from one day to the next had to leave. so that was the next chapter really. you were the fifth of six six children. and the the figure in that equation that. wasn't mentioned is your father. in your book you talk a lot about the. fear you had of your father growing up. can you tell me how that shaped you as a. Young Man I mean my father was a.

military man he. was in the peace corpse from Ghana so. they spent. ages sort of. you know for creating peace in like. places like Liberia and the Middle East. and he was there that he wasn't but we. were petrified of him. um. when he was around you wouldn't play. outside. you know he expected us all to be home. studying and he was very authoritarian. very African very strict.

so yes I was always very scared and you. know I was sort of a creative child. always drawing. illustrations of drawing women all the. time and that and I'll hear you know. your dad's coming and I'll just rip them. out because I was literally in fear. of him. and um my dad had to sleep when we laugh. about it now but when he got angry it. wasn't just with it would start with one. and then the anger will descend to.

to me essentially number five. because my sister wasn't born then and. um yeah he was very terrifying to me in. all aspects but then my mother was just. the most creative. most you know incredibly warm motherhood. literally sort of you know here's the. paper here's the pen you know. come in the room there's this lady so so. her into the dress zip her up so I it. was very weird having my dad who was not.

artistic in any way but so disciplined. you know and my mother who was just a. creative and it's really funny because. now I am literally both I am so. disciplined in my work so disciplined. there on time. and then also so creative on the other. hand so I got something from both but. yes in those early years my dad was a. source of Terror to me what impact did. that have on you when you look back now. in hindsight I look I do this sometimes.

with my parents I look back and go For. Better or For Worse. this parent. shape me accidentally for you know in. this way it might have created um I had. a guest on this podcast called Tim. Grover who trained Michael Jordan and. Kobe Bryant and he says. at that young age we developed both our. bright side and our dark side. and sometimes the same incident can give. us both of our it can give us our. Brilliance and it can also give us our. you know things we struggle with the. most.

what Dark Side did you inherit from that. earlier upbringing I mean I think what I. inherited from that. that period was just this this fear. overriding fear that never leaves you a. sense that I was never good enough a. sense that. I had to hide any form of Brilliance. because. looking at those early drawings that I. did. they're not far removed from what I do. now but it was just like. don't show how brilliant you are don't.

show how good you are hide it hide it. were you burning the drawings I heard. you ripping them up burning whatever I. had to do so so. I can't fathom that yeah but can you as. a creative child can you imagine that's. your calling but you don't even know at. that age that this is what you're meant. to do but you just know it just felt. like something that was wrong. so I've spent a lot of years just really. loving what I do. you know loving the fashion industry but.

at the same time thinking there's. something wrong with that because. while all this was going on I was being. sort of. each day I was being told you're going. to be a lawyer or a doctor oh an. engineer. so to me those were the Great careers. that you you needed. this was a great career for an African. Child for an African parent that was it. a doctor. a lawyer or an engineer so I always felt.

sometimes even in the fashion industry. when I was younger that I'm not really. doing what I'm supposed to be doing you. know if I was the doctor my dad would be. so proud and you know I carried that. with me for years. until you know I had to deal with it. yeah. the parents her parents shaped us. without really realizing. you know someone said there's no real. book to be in a parent. so you know they learn as they're going. along and my dad you know he was a young. man and.

yeah in the later years things got. better maybe. so you end up moving to the UK sort of. around 13 years old roughly. um. when you come here you experience racism. for the first time it's it's an. interesting thing to experience that. racism like your teen years because you. don't even understand the concept of. racism and tell me about that yeah I. mean you know. um as I said before I grew up in Ghana. you know my early years where everything.

is possible the doctors are black the. president's black the lawyers black. everybody's black every profession. and then one day we're on a plane to. England me and my siblings because my. dad had gone ahead and my mother had to. stay behind. we arrive at Gatwick Airport and we're. detained because we didn't really have. the right papers you know before. laid the Lord down you could come. to England from any Commonwealth country. without a Visa but we didn't realize she.

stopped it sort of a month before. so we came anywhere we were detained and. I remember looking around the room and. saying I'm saying to my brothers oh my. God everyone's White. and it was the strangest thing I'd ever. seen because in Ghana everyone's black. and I remember you know we we decamped. to the Vauxhall to my aunt's flat and. this was you know the year of you know. Microsoft's reign. and the SAS laws and. the Brixton riots and you know be I.

remember the first time I was stopped on. the street by the police with my. brothers because you know teenage black. kids they assume you're up to no good. and we had to go to school in fox or. William Bailey School. over the bridge and it was just scary. leaving the house and my father was so. traumatized by this country you know. there was a military man who didn't run. a battalion now. couldn't work you know had to seek. Asylum and we were the lowest of the low. at the point even at school I'd remember.

people would call use words like oh my. God they're the boo-boos which means it. was the one they used for someone from. Africa. So Not only was it half I went to an all. black school. thank God I think my dad knew that the. country was so different from anything. we knew that he put me in an all black. school and to this day I'm so grateful. for that because my work later everyone. talks about how can you. portray black people so beautifully and. I'm like that's all I know right but.

those early years were tough they were. tough just a new country a new school. and you felt a sense of not being liked. as a black person. you know. so those years were tough. and and what impact has that had on you. and your work because I think about from. a professional standpoint you were. hiding and had some sort of Shame and. insecurity around your creative. expression back in Ghana you come here. now and the world once again says you.

don't belong here yeah. you know that that feels and then I even. think about you in your book you talk. about understanding that you were gay. from a very young age. that's a third point of you know listen. you said in your book about had you had. your father known had you expressed that. to your father. I think the words are used he is he. would have slit your throat yeah. I can relate. [Laughter]. I mean you know he would say things like. that like oh my God if I knew any gay.

person if any person into the house I'll. slip your throat but my cousin was. living there my cousin Michael he was. gay so back to your question. how did it make me feel yeah like it. feels like there was a lot that you were. shielding or being forced to hide from. the world you know identity creative. expression sexuality. um. is that an accurate assessment as a. young man did you feel like you were.

did you know that there was things that. you were kind of suppressing yeah I mean. you know I was I was very shy I was. painfully shy. you know I I couldn't I couldn't speak. up I couldn't sometimes I couldn't even. walk into a room if there were people. in there was this shyness and I just. didn't feel worthy I didn't feel good. enough I didn't feel. I didn't feel like you know I had the. right to. to even be who I was doesn't make sense. you know I just didn't feel.

like a wanted you know like I wanted a. child really. so it wasn't until I was stopped on the. train to be a model then things really. changed before then I was just the. Immigrant kid you know the number five. and anybody knows when you're number. five nobody's got any time for you. child. it's a low profile didn't really want. you know didn't really want to stand out.

because that would mean you'll be. punished. so I think I yeah I led life a lot like. that. so you were stopped on the train sorry. about that. nobody stopped me on the train and asked. me to be a model. I'm still waiting but we'll see you're. 16 years old right when they some I'm a. guy called Simon Simon Foxton yeah I. mean so I was I guess 16. I left Vauxhall. Ian Bailey's school I wanted to go to. Kingsway Princeton College and I.

remember. saying to my mom oh my God I don't want. to wear glasses anymore because I have. these huge thick lenses my whole life. and I read I was always like reading and. I discovered there was something called. Contact Lenses. can I get a pair you know we didn't have. money but she somehow. I went to the optician and somehow. because my. you know my vision is so bad it's always. been sort of in a high 10 minus nines. minus ten they gave me contact lenses.

the really hard ones and if anybody. remembers. and I yeah a week later I was on the. train you know going to from Hammersmith. to college and I was stopped by uh. gentleman who was turned out to be one. of the biggest fashion editors in the. country. to be a model and I didn't even know. what modeling was and I remember you. know going home and telling my mother. and she's like no way are you going into. that industry with those people I didn't.

even know what those people meant but I. think years later I think she made gay. people. and of course I found out later Simon. was gay and the whole industry was gay. by the time I was like but you know I. wore her down I wore her down I wore her. then eventually she called him. Simon and I went on my first photo shoot. and then. again I was stopped by a model agents. and I got an agent and sort of my love. for the industry really begun from there.

what about your dad did he know you were. I was hiding it my mother and I were. hiding it my mother was so good I. remember the first job. she'd go with me you know to cast things. and on my shoot sometimes because I was. 16. you know I was a baby. and then she really trusted Simon Foxton. so then you know Simon would look after. me and we kept it all from my dad I had. a sister who was again stopped in Canada. by a famous model agent John Casablancas. to be a model and my dad was no way.

you're not doing this so somehow in the. back of my head he wasn't going to stop. me. fine so yeah I was pretending to go to. school when I was going to cost things I. was pretending to go to school when I. was going to shoot so it's very Cloak. and Dagger but my mother and I was fun. that was your I guess your introduction. to that that world right yes fashion. modeling. yeah pivotal. I mean I remember the the first day I.

walked onto. the photo shoot I think was the Pepe. jeans I talked about it and I looked. around the room and I saw the. photography I saw lights I saw. you know styling I saw. a world where everybody seemed so happy. so collaborative and in that moment I. knew. that I wanted to be in this world. in that the second I walked in and I. also knew that it wouldn't be as a model. in front of the camera. that I would be something else I didn't.

I didn't know anything about the. industry also don't forget. when our parents came over from. you know the Commonwealth. they didn't know what media was. you know if you say to my dad I'm going. to be a journalist and be like what. you know there was a practical jobs that. we talked about so I don't really blame. my dad now that I'm older. he just wanted me to have something that. was Secure but try telling a 16 or 17. year old who's discovered. a world where they they belong.

to turn back. to be a lawyer I knew that wasn't going. to happen. but if you went anyway to the university. I did for him for my dad but the. brilliant thing about going to. University was I was doing all these. things and I was you know I was. establishing myself as the models I had. pictures in magazines and I worked on. shows and I thought you know I could do. this side by side. it wasn't until I got to go through this. University and I remember I went for. three months.

and one of my lecturers literally was. like okay so what do you do outside of. here and I explained what I've been. doing I'd also been working with a. magazine called ID as you know sort of. interning. I mean I was like so in love with this. world I was a. I was a College I was modeling I was. whatever I could do. and I remember the teacher saying to me. you know what you're doing now is what. most of our students want would like to. do when they leave so.

yeah just follow it and I never went. back. but then when I dropped out I was also. offered a job as. a fashion director for ID magazine when. I was 18. did you tell your dad you. dropped out I remember telling my mum I. was dropping out of University and I. didn't speak to her for two years so. good to speak to you I remember you know. one day coming home and my dad was like. how's University and something just said. you know you can't lie and you can't lie. to him.

anymore so I said you know what Dad. I've been working. you know as a model I've been working at. ID magazine I haven't really been going. to University and he was Furious he. threw my things out the window my. clothes out the window and I remember. picking them up and thinking I am never. coming back here. and funny enough that's one of that's. what propels me because sometimes I have. dreams where I've gone back home because. things didn't work out. so I said hey I remember saying to.

myself I am never coming back to this. house with my tail between my legs I'm. never coming back and um. the same day I went into ID magazine and. the fashion director Beth Summers was. leaving and she said you're taking over. he throws all of your stuff there's so. much so much to unpack there. he kicks you out the family home yeah. and you in your head you go now I have. no plan B it's no plan a or plan a. nothing.

sounds great but that also sounds like. that's terrified and fear as a driving. force can be a little bit unhealthy. right this this sort of fear of going. back I can relate to that as well. because a similar situation call my mum. dropping at University she goes don't. talk to me or the family until you go. back so I have two years of no plan B. it's forward and that's that's wonderful. yes for achieving great things but also. it can cause in my case. severe workaholism because you're driven.

by fear are you driven or are you. dragged. driven and direct basically all I know. and. I mean you started any anybody who. started an industry at a young age will. tell you that you're just driven. you're driven I didn't even know what I. was heading towards all I knew is that. I was a workaholic I would do anything. that was needed to be done I wouldn't. sleep. I wouldn't sleep if I had to return you.

know close from East London to West. London I'd walk it didn't matter. and you you're also shaped by certain. people around you at the time I mean I. had great mentors you know Terry and. Tricia Jones who owned ID magazine were. really supportive of me and you know I. also had Simon Foxton. I always say to people I couldn't have. succeeded if I didn't have great people. around me I was so lucky to have not. only the best people in the industry.

but also people who are caring had I. been on my own out there in the world I. don't know what would have happened I. had Judy blame who said you know. I've just got a new house. come and stay with me rent free. however you know I was 18. come and stay with me rent free I had. you know my editors would just give me. money like okay you're working so hard. here's 10 pounds for your lunch. I was so lucky that's why it's so. important for me to Mentor young people.

it's so important for young people to. have mentors because had I not been. looked after I don't know where I would. be. and also I had this work ethic from my. dad and my mother. coupled with a with a fear of going back. home it was just forward forward motion. were you were you running towards. something or running away from something. both. I was running away from a life. that had proven too difficult.

you know as you said you know black. young gay. you know all these intersections I could. call it today so I really wasn't fitting. at home and I was just. I don't know what I was hurtling towards. but I just knew. that work would get me there. that my family wouldn't get me there. you know but work somehow would get me. and I didn't know where I was going was. it a distraction.

work. was everything for me work meant. everything work was when I was happiest. work was when I was saddest work was. when. I felt like myself work was where I felt. like an imposter it's almost like every. emotion you have. in a family. um what do you call it. in the family dynamic. I had at work. and it goes back to being in an industry.

from a very young age from from 16 don't. forget the age of 13 I came from another. country 16 I was modeling 18 I was an. editor. so the Imposter Central not fair. and and I look back at my journey now. and you know writing the book it's like. it was quite fast it was quite a fast. Ascent Maybe. but with it came over. you know. you didn't speak to your father for. another 15 years following that day that. he chucked you out the house did you.

also. sort of reject the family yes and work. became as you describe it there you're a. new family yeah yeah I rejected my. family I thought they could have done. more. to help me. um I had a baby sister who's now my. agent. and she was she didn't understand well. from one day to the next I left. I was seeing my family list and I. embraced a whole new world I mean in. this world I was Edward I was I was I. was beautiful I was shiny.

um that's the word that I hate that I. was exotic back then. and it felt like this is where I needed. to be but underneath I was. I was a mess I was the same insecure. little boy hiding from my father. but because I was in a position of power. I had to. I had to cover up the shyness and. essentially grow up again grow up super. fast.

you describe yourself as being lucky. [Music]. but I I'm not sure I necessarily agree. because. most people don't open up their home to. someone they don't give them money when. they need it they don't bring them in. just because. they are 18 and young so if you were to. tell me how you created that look why. people were pulling you up why they were. giving you the job as fashion director. at 18 years old why they were letting. you in their home. why was that.

I mean I always thought it was luck I. always thought I was in the right place. at the right time I'd met the right. people but I had learned later on of. course. that I must have had something. In The Raw I must have had some a raw. talent I must have had. some kind of a raw Vision something that. people wanted to help hone because had I. not had these people I don't I would. never have known how to research. a great shoot or how to write a great.

you know. how to write a great story. I had people I I think they must have I. must have been so. so sort of wide-eyed and innocent that. everybody wanted to help me everybody. wanted to help me win but I also know. that you do that with people. for me now I do that with people I see. have a certain Talent a certain Raw. Talent so I think now it's not down to. luck. you know luck you know luck will get you.

through the door but something has to. sustain you. but in those early days I was so. grateful. you know for all these people who. thought I had something special and my. mind even working ID when I was so young. I mean I didn't have an assistant so I. would literally. work on the cover shoot style it find a. photographer I would write all the. shopping pages I would work on layouts I. would shoot Fashion Stories I would.

write designer interviews it was like a. one-man Army and I didn't realize that I. was soaking in. I was soaking in an industry I was. soaking in really I mean you know. everything I do in my job now comes from. those days but there I was in sort of a. magazine. for Young People by young people and I. was learning my craft and it was. exciting every day I didn't want to go. to I didn't want to sleep. I didn't want to sleep but I was.

definitely a workaholic. you know work meant everything to me. and if something went wrong in work I'll. just collapse and not know how to handle. it. doesn't make sense because it was so. closely linked to your right sense of. self identity yeah that again can be. unhealthy right pardon oh my God I talk. about imposter syndrome syndrome. and then and then your mind is saying to. you you're not meant to be here you're. this little African boy. who Do You Think You Are. and you're trying to work I mean I know.

a lot of young people you know speak to. a lot of young people. today and when and when they hear that I. suffer from imposter syndrome they can't. believe it I'm like that's just part of. life it never goes away you learn where. to put it like I know that I've done. this long enough to know that you know. what I do is okay. on a good day. but yes it was quite difficult. those early days so that leads you to. drinking and that leads you to going out. just the numb.

your insecurities and your fears. do you think you could have gotten here. without your imposter syndrome if you. didn't feel like in a quote-unquote. imposter would you be saying now no way. I always say had I not had my imposter. syndrome had I not had the need to be. better I mean. I never look at anything I've done and. think this is amazing I'm always no I'm. like how can I do better. how can I make this better how can I. make this issue better how can I make.

this better and that's really what's. Driven me over these years. even when an issue comes out of British. book I don't look at it until two months. later because I will literally see all. the mistakes and and that's something I. learned from. from back then. so my insecurities really that that's. what drove me that's what kept driving. me not the successes. it's the fact that think this wasn't. good enough or that wasn't good enough. or this could be better.

but I got to a point where I went okay. you can you can let that go for now and. yeah see things from a different angle. but yeah my imposter syndrome definitely. propelled me if you if you have that. where you're looking at your work and. you always are self-critical of it. and you're always thinking about how you. could have done it better how were you. happy in the moment because that sounds. like you're kind of deferring your. enoughness the feeling that I'm enough. and it's good enough and everything's. fine off into the future behind the next. goal so how do you become at that stage.

in your life how are you are you happy. in the moment. I mean you know everyone says why this. sense of insecurity what you have to. remember is I was in. an incredible home and I lost it. an incredible country lost it. an Incredible family lost it. went into a gay scene that was so. it was so different to what I expected. so lost that so for me it's there's.

always a sense of loss. that I had to overcome. does that make sense power makes perfect. sense. you know I had to belong somewhere I. never felt I really belonged anywhere. and that really. was the factor sitting here 50 years old. you know I've been able to deal with my. My. Demons you know through. yeah through work through therapy. whatever you want to call it so I'm a. different person now but I'm still that.

same I still have those feelings of. of yeah you just have to make it. as best as it can be but now not. detrimental to my health not detrimental. to my mental health. but as a young person you don't think of. that you just. you just have to move forward and you. have to be the best you can be whatever. that is. you have to move forward you start that. treadmill at 18 years old which is much. earlier than a lot of people started as. fashion director of this magazine you. start moving forward you work you you.

don't sleep you give everything to to it. and at some point it tends to be the. case when I speak to these incredible. people that there's a moment where you. go where am I how did I get here. and I need to I need to change something. was there a moment in your life where. you realize that you you know all this. running was maybe just a little too much. running and you had to stop for a second. and take a moment yeah I remember sort. of around. 2002 I mean I've been in the industry. for so long I was creating fashion shows.

for the best designers in the world I. was flying every day. or every few days to a different country. you know living the life as they call it. but I was always I was also the most. miserable I'd ever been. I would be in a room surrounded by. lots of people who feel really lonely. there was a sense of loneliness that was. sort of creeping. into my life every day and there's this. saying that you can be in a room. surrounded by thousands of people and be.

lonely but that kept getting stronger. and stronger so I started drinking a lot. and I started um. sort of going out a lot you know. recreational drugs and one day. I was supposed to go to. Italy to work on a show. um a big show for. designers called Dolce Cabana and I had. a party and I lost my passport. and I was supposed to be there on day. one and by the time I got my passport.

back it was day four. I literally went to the American I went. to the British Embassy to get my. passport with a bottle of vodka in my. hands you're joking yes which I put. through the security thinking there was. nothing wrong. but I remember getting to Milan and. literally breaking down and calling a. friend and said I think I'm done I think. I'm done with. with drinking I think I'm done and um. I became sober for the next 14 years or.

so I knew my life had to change I moved. from London to New York to be away from. everyone. and that's what I did but. my career was totally unaffected. that. the people who have addictions can be. functioning so my career was at the top. you know at the time. and I could have just carried on but I. just knew that life had to change I just. knew I had to. develop some kind of spirituality I just.

I just needed. to be able to look at myself and not. you know hate myself hate myself yeah I. hate myself. um you know work was always great but. like I said behind the curtains the. the insecurities the loneliness that a. lot of people a lot of High Achievers. feel you know when you don't have a. partner when you don't have a family to. go back to you're literally a lone wolf. with a lot of friends.

everything in life has a cost in the. cost of being dragged or driven by. success is often something has to Fall. by the wayside yes and for so many. successful people that is social. connections and there's all these other. things that make life quote unquote. balanced. um because you know in the moment those. things seem disposable when you're so. focused and driven and you know running. away from where you've come from or. getting to where you're going. um and it seems like such a recurring. theme that I experienced what were the. symptoms you should you said the word.

creeping creeping feelings of like. loneliness or whatever you know. depression whatever it was what were the. the. signals the signs. of that like that's what I really want. to get to because there'll be someone. listening to this now. that it might just be creeping like a. frog in a frying pan slowly heating up. what were those signals or signs in your. life the signals were like you know not. not really sleeping yeah not really. never engaging with people on a.

one-to-one always being better with with. crowds of people around. avoidance you know avoiding certain. situations certain. people who are quote unquote good for. you. um avoiding people who you really. Loved Before and who were really kind to. you all of a sudden avoiding them. for a new group of shiny people. um and I spent watching you know endless.

amounts of. TV but then realizing for the past six. hours you can't you can't even remember. what you've been watching. yeah staring at the screen but the mind. and a mind that wouldn't stop no. meditation involved. no just a mind that was working overtime. and what was it feeling like it's a. feeling of emptiness. I can describe that feeling.

um now when I meditate I'm like oh so. that's the feeling but it's a feeling of. emptiness the feeling of. loneliness is really how I describe it. disconnectedness disconnected from. everything and everyone's telling you. how brilliant you are you have the. magazine covers I mean I remember once. at one month I look I went to the. newsstands I had the cover of American. Vogue Italian Vogue vanity American. Vanity Fair ID magazine and and feeling. empty and people saying oh my God look.

at what you've achieved and just. just want and also wanting to destroy it. really wanted to destroy whatever Talent. there was wanting to destroy it not. really caring not really taking care of. it I mean now I know that when you're. given a talent I don't know where that. comes from you have to protect it you. have to nurture it you have to but when. you're young in your 20s and you have. money and and jobs are coming to you you. just don't. you don't see the value. so what changed at that moment in your.

life what changed you gave up the. alcohol you describe yourself with that. point and I I went into AAA where. alcoholics oh my God I learned to do. service with homeless people in AAA it's. a leveler. so I'll you know you do service with. homeless people you'd go. for lunch with people from all walks of. life don't forget I've been. in this industry since 18 and I hadn't. stepped out of it the only people I knew.

were actors or musicians I hadn't. stepped out of this but meeting real. everyday. regular people that really helped me and. also doing service you know one day you. make tea. um I had to spawn C's so you know. esponces you know someone who wants to. to not drink and change their life so. you're someone's in a Way Mentor I had. you know a sponsor but I was really in. the program and that really gave me a.

spiritual side to be able to. to deal with the world and even you know. to. have a relationship with you know. married now like I said I've been in a. relationship now for 21 years but had I. not taken that step had I not woken up. and thought I need my life to be. different I don't know what I'll be. today. because the party moves very fast. you know the train moves very fast and a. lot of people in the fashion industry. don't get the chance. to step back and you know reevaluate you.

just go it's just like. yeah you could go from party to party. and it would be okay. but I just knew that um. coming from where I came from. that I needed to change my life. going from party to party and it will be. okay that almost seems like a bit of a. metaphor for how a lot of people are. living their lives even outside of the. fashion industry going from job to job. lawyer to senior lawyer to partner at. the law firm without really having that. moment to step back and say who am I and.

how did I get here and do I belong here. and do I feel okay I know the external. world's telling me I've done well but. that does that match with how I feel. inside. yeah I mean it's like you have to know. what you feel inside and a lot of times. too many people young people are. doing what they think other people want. them to do oh you're great you'll be. good at this you should ask for this job. sometimes you have to ask yourself do I. want that that's what I did everyone. says you need to take this campaign you.

need to work with this designer so I did. but did I really want that maybe I. didn't. but you just do it because people. people's expectations of you you know. and I did that for years and you know I. don't do that anymore. but it takes it takes a while to be able. to figure that out if you could have had. a chat with Edward that 18 year old. fashion director at ID magazine and you. could you could have just sat down with. him and given him a couple of listen. right Edward this is what I need to tell. you.

what would 51 year old Edward say to 18. year old Edward about career advice and. equipping him for the next couple of. years I said. don't just give everything to work. don't just give everything to work you. know find moments for yourself find. moments to self-reflect. find moments to to. I always say I always go back to. meditation find moments of self-help. because that will carry you much longer. you know a lot of people I started out.

with are not are no longer around. so many people along the Wayside decided. the industry wasn't for them or was bad. for their Mental Health. and I just kept going. and I would have you know say to my. younger self you know what sometimes. maybe some some jobs aren't worth it. but you know when you're 18 everything. is a must isn't it do you think he would. have listened no. no way we'll just do the same thing all.

over again. but that's the beauty of Youth isn't it. yeah yeah there's some lessons in life. that you have to learn for yourself what. I wasn't doing I didn't listen to anyone. really. but um. yeah. little Edward. but you know what's really great about. that time that I think about it was like. you know I go back to saying you know I. was. I was I don't know the chosen one or the. token whichever you want to see it.

but I even learned at that age that I. needed. people like myself around I needed black. people around me people of color around. me so I you know I became really good. friends with a young model Naomi. Campbell A young makeup artist Pat. McGrath another hairstylist Ben scarf. and Patty Wilson and we became our. little group in the fashion industry. through the 90s and you always need you. always need your people why. because you just do because there's.

certain things that you know I was. facing that you wouldn't know as a. person who wasn't black that Pat would. understand that Naomi would understand. we were navigate in spaces. that you know most black people want. and you just need someone to understand. when you had a problem someone to. understand and help you navigate really. so for me those friendships that we had. as kids in the early 90s we still so.

close that we speak every day all of us. so you need your tribe. you need your tribe and I remember even. the day I stopped. I stopped drinking I called Pat and I. called Naomi and you know they've been. so consistent in my life. but I had my tribe. in an industry that wasn't really for us. yeah. you stayed at ideas fashion director for. a long time 20 something years 20. something years most young people.

especially these days wouldn't stay in. any job. staying for two years after six months. they're coming to me to say what is my. Prospect I'm like I don't even know you. but that's when I read that I was like. is that correct like you stayed in one. job the job you had at 18 for 20. something years but I mean not 20 years. I mean 20 years but I was sort of. freelance and still doing the job yeah. doing the job but ideas are such a. special magazine you know it became like. the coolest magazine in the world every.

model every actor everybody wanted to be. a part of it so there was no need for me. to live and also I'm also very loyal you. know loyalty is so important. so everywhere I go I never leave. there's something to be said for that. though it's rare in the modern world. that loyalty to a profession or a craft. yeah and if someone is loyal to you I. believe in sort of being loyal back. no if someone nurtures you you know. then you want to be there like I said it. replaces the family Dynamic which I.

didn't have from that do you think. that's part of it the why why you've. been so loyal is because you're. searching for somewhere to belong oh I. know that because even when I was at ID. um my friends would say I was never. alone at my desk each day you know every. day you come in there'll be the the. hottest. actor singer dancer of the moment around. my table the next day would be a writer. it was like yeah come in come and hang. out let's go hang out for the day with. Edward. and what.

was that making you feel. when there was people around you from an. emotional standpoint I mean I'm I'm. great with people I love being around. people and I always say you know I have. a have a husband who is sort of very. wants to be on his own introvert and I. grew up with. five siblings so I don't even know what. being on my own. it's like I mean now I do but back then. the more people around the mall.

like they gave me energy and creativity. I love Creative conversations I love I. love being in the moment I love arriving. at you know a creative decision so. that's that was really my feel. yeah Vogue how did that happen Vogue. yeah. so after ID. um in the late 90s I started working for. Italian Vogue for the great editor. called Franco sazani and Italian Virgo. was sort of of all the folks you could.

say the most creative where you know. should give you 30 pages to shoot that. was incredible images so you know I did. that for maybe called 10 years I was at. Italian verb sort of the main stylist. and then I got a call from Anna winter. in America. to come and work for American Vogue so. from Italian Vogue I moved to American. Vogue and I was there for. working for another for seven years then. I got a call. damn you do long stints. [Laughter].

magazine to work with um stuff on the. tank here really great editor and I was. there for seven years wow you know when. you're having fun. or when you're enjoying what you do. time is of no essence. you know like I I would say oh the issue. comes out in six months and someone's. like that's six months away but for me. it was like tomorrow. so yes and then one day out of the blue. I got a call.

from Jonathan Newhouse I'm a very. great he was you know he owns containers. the company that owns Vogue and. he said. um the editor who was there had been. there for 26 years. was you know fashioned in this nobody. leaves any chance clearly. what's leaving and would I come in for. an interview so I came in for a couple. of interviews. um I didn't think I was going to get it. because to be honest I thought Vogue. wasn't meant for people like me you know. I thought Vogue was meant for.

you know women from a certain background. and. and I was you know the boy from Napa. Grove you know I was gay I was outspoken. you know I was good at my job but um. yeah I went for an interview and I. literally told them. you know how to how I would do Vogue for. for 2017. and what was that message to. make it inclusive to make it diverse you. know there was this notion in the. fashion industry that black women all.

women of color on covers don't sell. it's been in the industry for as long as. I can remember but I saw all these. affluent women you know not just black. women you know gay women women from you. know with working class backgrounds you. know Muslim women Aussies British who. are British essentially. not seeing themselves reflected in the. magazine I thought well not only is it.

bad but you know it's not good business. but I wanted to create a place or a safe. place where women could just. feel welcomed because I always remember. my mother always said to me if you can. see it you can be it. so I wanted to create um a magazine. where you know women of all shapes sizes. you know race age social economic. background could see themselves. reflected and that's all I did I didn't. reinvent the the wheel I just thought.

who are the women out there that I. wanted to reach and that's what I did. and thank God the world was I mean now. diversity is a buzzword right but in. 2017 nobody was wanted that on a. magazine. and I always said you know I knew I'd. probably be fired three months in. but I also learned at least what I got. from my father I would rather be fired. for something I believed in than to go. in half halfing it and get fired anyway. half hours. so yeah that's how voke happened and the.

world was ready. when you got that call. saying that you were going to take that. top job at Vogue how did you feel. scared I felt scared on one hand because. I knew. the type of person I am that I that I. wouldn't. like I said I wouldn't just go in and. try to make do I would need to change. everything. I also knew that VOC had such a huge I. mean folks the best magazine in the.

world and has such a huge. sort of history. that I wanted to sort of be a part of it. but make it about today and I didn't. know if the readers would be ready. I mean before I started the job you know. there were speculations in the newspaper. I mean I got called all kinds of Africa. and I got called I got called heaven I. heard called it black what was it I had. the uh the black one they said it was. like going to crafts yeah and the cat. one like a whole other breed so already.

I had that on my shoulders it was really. it was a really tough time. but I didn't speak I just thought let me. just bring out the magazine and when the. first issue dropped December. 2017 with adjoa on the cover an issue. that was dedicated to Great Britain. the country that gave me a home the. country that I loved. and featured all the best you know. um zadie Smith and Naomi Campbell um.

Sadiq Khan that's the best of Britain. the world got it straight away and from. that minute the the magazine just went. up up up up and we haven't looked back. but even I read it so I read about that. story of the newspaper when you got the. job as the top job at Vogue they said it. was like. crufts but the cat winning yes racism. and then I also recall a story you tell. about arriving at Vogue one day and a. security lady not letting you in because.

they thought you were the delivery man. yeah. and at that point you were oh the editor. I've been editor for years and they. wouldn't let you in the building yeah I. mean it was it was you know I think the. woman was hired from God knows where I. walked in I walked in and. without asking for anything without. asking for my party was like loading Bay. excuse me what. I said. you have to use the loading bear and I. was like I'm the editor of this magazine.

but what that's you know obviously what. that taught me was never. to feel that. the work is done never to feel that I'm. okay never to feel that I've made it. those moments remind me that there's. still a lot to do a younger person. walking in there would have been. paralyzed with fear but I knew how to do. something about it. and this also happened years ago at a. show where they put old-fashion.

directors in the front row and put me in. the second row and I literally was on. Twitter the next day I'm not scared fear. is not an option for me you know from a. young age I've never been scared of. fighting. for you know what I deserve or fighting. for what people. from different backgrounds deserve. so yes that happened at Vogue you know. but it also made me realize that. you always have to fight and you can. never be complacent.

even today do you feel like there's. people that want to see you fail and. that don't want a man of your color and. background to be in that role I mean I. think you know I mean I've proven myself. I mean at the end of the day I didn't. just create a magazine that looked good. but also if magazine that was Finance. it's so financially successful. you know diversity sells I remember. taking the job and people saying to me. diversity is down Market yes I heard. that then I had Oprah Winfrey on the. cover wearing the most incredible.

diamond earrings and it's sold out. so every day I continue to sort of um. challenge what the idea of. Vogue is that an idea of being an editor. is but now I look around at all the. magazines and and diversity is now a. part of. part of the media you know having black. models on the covers that's no longer a. a big deal having issues around.

you know having gay issues or trans. issues it's no longer an issue but in. 2017 it was unheard of. so it shows how far we've come but. there's still a long way to go you. thought Edward you fought for your. entire life you fought for yourself you. fought for others you're fighting for. your people. um you're doing that every day it's so. clear in all your work I was reading. also about the black issue You released. and how well that sold out where you put. all sort of black models throughout this. magazine and yeah and that fight again.

it comes at a cost. um. and one of the costs that came at was. your health yeah I read about the health. scare you had can you tell me about that. and the doctors linked that back to your. lack of sleep and yeah it sounded like. some kind of sort of a culmination of. fighting a bit too hard if that makes. sense I mean you know I was I was even. on my way here I was in. in the car with my PR and just like. you're always fighting. you always. pushing forward yes basically all those. years of um.

just not sleeping just working over. working traveling I woke up one day and. I saw these black markings in my in my. vision. and it turned out that I was. uh I was having a detached retina. so the retina detach it eventually you. know one surgery then he detached again. and he detached four times. in the same eye. and then as all that was happening. um my other eye started so they had to.

operate unless I've been I think five. operations. and you know I work with my eyes so can. you imagine what that did. so that was really harrowing and then. also I developed um tinnitus so the. hearing I had that oh it's hard to. explain you can't explain you can't. explain it if I said to you your ears. gonna ring you go okay but when your. earrings you think you're going crazy. yeah you go crazy you think you're going. crazy I had it for about 15 days and I.

can see I you know only 15 days yes it. went yeah oh wow and I so I started. reading online about it because you're. gonna have this for life and then I read. about the the psychological impact on. your mental health of having it for life. can you imagine having that and then. having my eyes. but what it did teach me you know when. you know I didn't work for two years. people didn't realize when my whole sort. of. eye issues were happening didn't work. for two years but in the industry you. know you can you have so many shoes. banked anyway so it looks like you are.

but I knew after that that I had to. change my life that I had to practice. self-care. that I had to you know work hard but not. travel as much not take every job not. and British folk came at the right time. because it helped. you know it meant I'll be in one place a. lot I'll be in an office which was also. very new because I hadn't been in an. office for a while and yes it really. helped me turn my life around I mean um. such a health nut. a purpose-driven man like you that's so.

in love with his work for your work to. be taken because your eyes as you say. are Central to what you do so you can't. see films TV shoots well what was the. the sort of mental health implications. of that oh my God I was I was I I was a. mess I mean. I was I was living in New York at the. time anyway and I was saying I saw a. a therapist who said I had PTSD. because I was so scared of losing my. vision it spiraled I mean to all my to.

my relationship. expired into my life I was so scared up. and I remember. the idea of going blind. wouldn't leave my mind for one second. like it wasn't like every day I thought. of oh I might go blind once it was every. second on my mind I could be happy and. I'll go back you're gonna go blind and. the mind the brain is so powerful so. imagine you're leading your life and.

then there's this thing running behind. your brain You're Gonna Go Blind You're. Gonna Go Blind but non-star and it took. a lot of therapy to. cognitive therapy to help me deal with. that because I was convinced not just. one eye but to you but then I found it. was incredible doctor in New York. probably the best in his field and. you know my eyes are yeah good now I. mean not perfect but at least I can see. or partially see I don't know if it was.

slightly after that but you know we've. talked about the incredible impact and. inspiration from a very young age that. your mother was to you she was. everything you've described vivacious. she was an entrepreneur she was the the. reason why fashion became such an. important part of your life as a Young. Man during fashion designs under her. workstation at work and so on and while. she was away visiting Ghana she had a. stroke yeah and from her health. deteriorated over the coming over the. next couple of years. in 2016 at 44 years old your mother.

passed away. what impact did that have on your. perspective in your life the passing of. your mother. um oh my God I mean my mother was. somebody who wouldn't stop working. she was somebody who. wouldn't sleep I mean I get all that. from her. she read I mean my mother didn't even. cook because my sisters would cook she. was obsessed with beautiful clothes make. bringing Beauty in the world but I also.

watched her you know she didn't eat so. well she wouldn't exercise she just wake. up and just work. so I mean you know my mother was the. love of my life and it really made me. stop to think I mean you know Strokes. are not nothing to you know to be messed. with and it runs in my family so that. was already a sign to really look after. myself but losing my mother really left. a void that you know will never be. filled. but now I don't remember the strange.

thing happens when you lose a parent no. I don't remember her being ill. I just remember that you know that. gorgeous creative woman. who was so full of life. and my mother always thought me not to. be scared of anything and. yeah all the memories I have of her so. great but she also helped me change my. life. you know. yeah she was the love of my life. in your words what do you owe to her.

I owe her everything my God I owe her. the love the love of. fashion and color and people. the. the the the the the. delving into your imagination the. creativity. everything that's I create that's. beautiful everything you know the love I. have of women of all shades and sizes. and ages and. you know race everything everything good.

everything good in in my work but also. in my life she was the kindest most. nurturing. human being and that's something I try. to do with my staff that's something I. try to do in my everyday life sort of. you know they used to call me teacher. when I was young so I really like. teaching the Next Generation and really. nurturing them so all that really came. from my mother and also empathy. you know being able to. put yourself in someone's shoes oh that.

came from her. when she after her stroke it was almost. 15 years where you describe it as a sort. of decline in her in her health. [Music]. when she did pass away was there any. any thoughts of sort of regrets about. the this is something I always wonder. about my parents because I've still got. my parents but I play out the scenario. of how I'll feel one day when I've spent. all this time working and our. relationship you kind of I think I've. gone through life thinking my parents. will live forever to be honest.

yeah everyone thinks their parents are. going to live forever I say to my. friends please make sure you see your. parents as much as you can because when. they're gone they're gone I still pick. up the phone to call my mother and she's. not there but I spend as much time as. you can because they're not here forever. you think they are and the biggest. regret I had is all those years I spent. working and traveling and not seeing. enough of her and not you know going. back to. to visit and I was just so consumed with.

work you know the one regret I do have. is I wish I would have spent more time. with her but I thought she was going to. be around forever. so yeah spend as much time as you can. with your parents you know build. whatever Bridges you can build I know. some bridges are impossible but if you. can build British to you know do because. when they're gone. you will miss them. are there any did you ever hear from you. directly the impact that she had had on. your life. I mean you know before she had the.

stroke she saw how well I was doing and. you know she would see you know. different articles appear in different. magazines and she knew that you know she. was Africa so she knew that I was. financially secure. secure enough to give you know to look. after the family so for her even though. she didn't see me get to this level she. knew that you know. I was able to buy a place when I was. very young and I'm able to sort of look. after them and so she saw that. and I think she was very proud of that.

she must have been very proud of you I. think she was I hope she was anyway. incredible you went to therapy. um after she'd passed away what has. therapy given you what's the sort of the. practical. [Music]. therapy really gives you the Practical. tools to cope with life I I mean I've. always had I've always been very good. with boundaries like it teaches you. boundaries I've always been very good. you know when I was a teenager I was I. just wanted to do what everybody wanted. but then the older I got I mean I was I. mean I was so Frosty at Point times.

anyway. okay. this is your boundaries it teaches. when. when you know things are not right you. know again I've always had that but it. teaches me to be human to be caring to. you know certain people in our positions. you know when you're successful. sometimes you. you discard opinions so fast or you. discard people people's ideas so I'm now. learning to be a better listener you.

know all those things that I wasn't when. I was growing up you know maybe it's. turning 50 as well you know I'm not. patient now definitely. if I was your who's the closest person. to you professionally. professionally oh my god oh. um who knows you best professionally. my sister okay so your sister your. younger sister right my sister who was. also my agent for 15 years if I asked. her what what you're good at because you. know you've reached this position where. you're the top of your game and what you. do.

from the most incredible start in life. to hear now. so we talked about your talent but we. didn't really figure out in terms of. like the specifics of what that Talent. is in your in your own words if I was to. ask your sister I said what's Edward's. Talent. what is the thing that he's good at that. the peers just can't quite do as well as. he can he should ask her. what do you think should say. um I think she will probably say that I.

I'm in sort of Perpetual forward motion. that I don't take no for an answer. probably. and that I'll. yeah I'll do whatever I can to make. to make the best magazine or to make the. best picture or to make the best like oh. I'll go to the ends of the world to make. things happen maybe isn't it difficult. for someone who doesn't have that same. standard to work with someone like you. then. because if only you know if I don't care.

as much about the details as you do yeah. but I also think that you know it comes. with time doesn't it. you know I think you can see Diamonds In. The Raw. so I don't expect everybody to be like. me but I can also see potential and then. hopefully you can nurture that potential. to its fullest. so I don't expect everybody to come in. you know sometimes the best. the best people you work with are the. quiet ones in the back the ones who are. not good at in interview situations.

but the ones who know who work and our. workers and she probably say that I I. I'm definitely a worker like I work very. hard. the standards matter to you very much. sir. do you sweat the small stuff yes. why does that matter. the the devil's in the details. you know you have to to create on a. level that we create you know you can't. just say okay everything's fine. everything will work out can you work.

with people that are like that. don't sweat the small stuff. so long as there are people there who. can't sweat the small stuff maybe it's. other people's talents or something else. but there needs to be a balance it can't. just be. everybody says sweater small stuff. but they also has to be sort of dreamers. and. creators you know someone said to me. once what do you look for. when you employ staff. and like I said it's not the best.

interview it's. when you're walking towards my office am. I happy to see you. like what are you bringing. to the job so someone comes into my. office they're like sweating the small. stuff and somebody can just walk in and. go I have a big idea. and that's what I love about what we do. you think you're successful. I'm successful. uh I'm just at my work.

but I'm still a work in progress where. life is concerned. because every day I learned something. new about myself I feel like I missed a. lot of years growing up you know for. years I was always. I was always sort of jealous when I saw. people who went to University together. oh. when people were you know we went to. University together had all those. escapades and I was working. but now I realize that everybody has. their own path. and mine was to yeah to go.

and be a worker. quick one some of you will know that. this podcast is now sponsored by the. incredible Airbnb I'm a huge user lover. and customer of Airbnb every time I go. away on a trip whether that's work. related or it's a holiday Airbnb is. always my go-to but have you ever. considered have you ever thought about. making some extra cash to cover some. bills or to help pay off a holiday let. me explain further perhaps people are. coming to your town or city for a music. festival for an event or a holiday and.

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sometimes I ask my friends this because. this is the kind of way that I am but if. happiness were an ingredients list if it. was a recipe that needed certain. ingredients in certain quantities for. the recipe to be complete. is there anything missing currently off. your ingredients list that you think if. you just had a little bit more of that. then maybe you'd be even more fulfilled. content happy no it's for me it's more. it's more the opposite I'm now like if I. don't want to be in a place.

whether it's dinner or in a job or in a. situation I'm out. that's what that's the ingredient that I. have now that I don't want to spend any. life is doing so I don't want to spend. any time being in a place where I don't. want to be and that came with years and. years. of you know failures and successes or. whatever you call it now I know where I. need to be who I want to be with. and that's that's the ingredient that's.

been added I'm 30 now right so I've got. your baby there's a 20 about a 20 20. year gap between me and you so my God. you're so great oh thank you I mean that. means a lot coming from you so thank you. what advice would you give me as a 30. year old man right now you know I've got. my I've got another 20 years ahead of me. it's a different chapter of life. I love that piece of advice you said. about boundaries and like if I don't. want to be there let's let someone down. get out of there is there anything else. you think that as a 30 year old man.

um would equip me to make the next. chapter of my life is brilliant I mean. don't say don't take no for an answer. keep keep doing what you do there'll be. naysayers along the way people like oh. you can do it like this you can do it. like that this this person don't listen. to any of that you've already set. yourself on a great path. manifest it keep moving forward yeah but. really don't be distracted by people. telling you you can't do this or you. can't do that or shouldn't do this once. someone again one of the things my.

mother said to me is when you go into a. place. any situation and they say you know we. do things like this oh things you should. say why. always have that on your mind why why. why does it have to be like this why. can't we change so why. it's a very important word to have. a man how has love changed your life. Edward. 20 years married now I mean love I never. thought I would have love I always. thought I'd be like.

I love those people who sort of career. minded people you know where you get to. the end of your life and you've achieved. everything without. a partner then I met you know I like. when we were in our 20s I was in my late. 20s or since early 20s and part of the. reasons why I got certain part of the. reasons why I got sober and he has. taught me about. just being a and being a person being. Being Human. you know being grounded.

it's so special. really just just the normal things in. life but he's also very creative so. he tells me when the cover is awful and. we fight. and I say to him what do you mean this. is awful everybody loves this and goes. yeah they tell you what you want to hear. so he's my my you know my my home. you know my safe space. and he's just very kind you know.

took me to be kinder. have you learned to express to him what. he means to you. I think he read the book. no he knows he knows what he means to me. what does he mean to you without him I. wouldn't wait I wouldn't be here I. wouldn't even I probably wouldn't even. want to carry on uh doing what I do but. he's so excited he's a director. so he's also so excited by work and our. life and you know we have two puppies so. we have a great work-life balance you.

wouldn't want to be here and I wouldn't. want to be here doing what I do you know. I'll be like Oh I'm gonna I'm just. quitting or. that those you know those days when you. go home like ah like I can't be bothered. to deal with that and he's like yes you. will. and you'll go back tomorrow and you know. just he's really normal and. so lovely. Edward we have a closing tradition on. this podcast where the last guest leaves. a question for the next guest without. not knowing who they're leaving it for. and I get to see it when I open the book. um and the question that's been left for.

you by our previous guest who I shot. aren't they is if you could be part of. any brand or company past or present. which would it be and why. I mean obviously I go back to. first magazine I ever saw. was Ebony magazine there was a great. woman called Eunice W Johnson Johnson. and she was. she was the editor's wife. she was one of the few black women who.

would go to Fashion weeks as we call it. now and do you know that poor woman they. wouldn't lend her the clothes to shoot. she had to buy the Couture with her. money with her own money to do these. fashion shows called ebony. Fashion Fair run the deep south of. America in the 50s and 60s this woman. was so incredible Eunice W Johnson Ebony. magazine I would have loved to have been. her right hand I would have loved to. have gone to the shows with her and.

fought with her. to get I mean what I what I have now you. know access to everything is because of. women like her. so Ebony magazine in the 40s and 50s. next to Eunice W Johnson would have been. incredible. Edward thank you thank you for fighting. because by doing so you're laying the. foundation and opening doors not just. for people in the fashion industry but. for people in every industry that come. from where you come from that look like. you including me because of Role Models.

like you in our society you're opening. doors for people like me that are coming. through in different Industries so that. we are accepted enabled and our talents. are put first and foremost beyond. anything else that might be our skin. color our background or our Creed your. book is incredible it's a very important. book that I think is um thank you it. tells a story and as I call it an. impossible story of a young kid from. Ghana that gets to the very top and. becomes the first black editor in. British folks history but it's also just. such a human Story the struggles that.

you're very vulnerable and open about. um and and the the ultimate sort of. Triumph at the end of this story which. is I call it the end of the story I mean. you've still got a vision board but but. as a Triumph that is um impossible but. important and generational you're an. incredible person thank you for fighting. please do keep fighting and I recommend. everyone to go and check out this. incredible book A Visible man because. um it needs to it needs to be a visible. book because it's um it certainly had a. profound impact on my life so thank you. Edward oh thank you for having me and.

keep on doing what you do I'm gonna I. hope you do too thank you Edward. [Music]. problem with protein powders is they. tend to taste a bit it feels like hard. work to consume them and then when I got. Hills protein powder which by the way is. 20 grams of protein and just 105. calories and I tried it for the first. time there was this kind of mental. confusion that it tastes as good as a. milkshake I might buy in the corner shop. but it's nutritionally complete and has. 20 grams of protein in it and my.

favorite of all the flavors I've got the. chocolate fudge brownie flavor in front. of me is The Salted Caramel flavor with. a little bit of ice in it it is a dream. and I'm training at the moment I'm doing. cardiovascular training ahead of soccer. AIDS so having protein in my diet. especially when I'm incredibly busy is a. must-have for me if you're looking for a. good protein powder I highly recommend. you try this recommended it's my friend. Simon she's now obsessed with it. and I think if you try it you'll find. out why. [Music].

[Music]. you got to the end of this podcast. whenever someone gets to the end of this. podcast I feel like I owe them a greater. debt of gratitude because that means you. listen to the whole thing and hopefully. that suggests that you enjoyed it if you. are at the end and you enjoyed this.

podcast could you do me a little bit of. a favor and hit that subscribe button. that's one of the clearest indicators we. have that this episode was a good. episode and we look at that on all of. the episodes to see which episodes. generated the most subscribers. thank you so much and I'll see you again. next time.