David Harewood: The Chilling Story Of How A Hollywood Star Lost His Mind | E185

I did everything that voice told me to. do that night had that voice have told. me to jump off Thames Bridge I would. have done it please welcome David. it's U.S drama home. the most influential voices on race and. mental health. I remember reading about a moment when. you come home you find your father's. typewriter with one word written on the. typewriter which is an illness and I. didn't quite know what it was but I knew. something was off I haven't seen dad for. a while and then one morning I got up. and my mom said don't go into the. kitchen and go straight to school out.

the front door for that night that's. when my mom told me that that'd be. David Harewood was the first black actor. to play this part the hostility that I. was met with as a young black actor was. ferocious newspapers reviews just. dismissing me he looks more like Mike. Tyson than Romeo what's he doing on the. stage so I really did feel like I was an. anomaly the whole thing the stress the. smoke the overthinking just ended up. making me spiral that's what led to me.

just falling into psychosis I was lying. in bed and I just heard this voice in my. head he said he was Martin Luther King. even though I'm speaking to you from. Beyond the Grave I need you to close the. gap between good and evil so you're. gonna sacrifice yourself tonight and. you're going to be an angel and that was. the night I was eventually sectioned I. just remember lots of flashing lights. and then being in the back of a police. wagon if that would have continued I'm. not even sure I would have been here. today. before this episode begins I just want.

to say a huge thank you to all of our. new subscribers 74 of you that watch. this channel didn't subscribe before and. we're now down to about 71 so that helps. us in a number of ways that are quite. hard to explain but simply the bigger. the channel gets the bigger the guests. get so if you haven't yet subscribed to. the Diary of a CEO if I can have any. favors from you if you've ever watched. the show and enjoyed it it's just to. please hit the Subscribe button without. further Ado I'm Stephen Butler and this. is the Diary of a CEO I hope nobody's. listening but if you are then please.

keep this yourself. [Music]. foreign. [Music]. what do I have to understand about your. very earliest years to understand. the man you are this perspective you. have and the work you do today what is. the most important context. wow that's an interesting question what. do I need to what do you need to know. about me then.

um that I was probably naive. open innocent uh and. probably more. um. probably more conflicted than I thought. I was. I I was a vessel and into that vessel. was just been poured so much. I'll say false information wrong. information. that um.

at some point it had to. smash. break. I grew up at a time when there weren't. many black people on television and. there weren't many. black images. that on television or anywhere. and I think. I think that is I think that seriously. put me at a disadvantage but I I grew up. with a false sense of myself and that.

that. false. false picture. uh has only recently emerged does that. make sense. not entirely unless I get further. context what was the picture of yourself. you grew up with. I would say you know. I just think I was just way too naive. and way too.

way too. that's hard that's a really interesting. question I had really thought about that. but I think. it's only it's only in recently recent. years and having asked myself. some of the questions that I've been. asking myself over these last couple of. years and I've really started to get a. real grip of. the person that I am.

so who did you think you are when you. when you were younger what did you think. of the world in yourself when you're. younger that was so naive and. ill-informed. um. I think I was. I didn't really think it was important. I don't think my color was important. and that's why I say I was naive I. didn't think my color was that important. I had no concept of myself.

as a sort of. young black man. and that's why I say I grew up at a time. and there weren't any images of myself. so I couldn't really. structure my identity. [Music]. around a sort of solid identity and even. my you know my mother was always sort of. trying to steer me into a more. Afrocentric mindset. now I got back to Birmingham where I. where I'm from and I look at how many of. us are in interracial relationships of.

that generation we were constantly told. to assimilate it was all about. assimilating assimilate you're not even. my you know I I heard the one I heard. the phrase one time you're not black. you're normal. which is so bizarre. so that your identity as a black person. was sort of ironed out you you just you. just. you're British you're English and. and. so when I came out of drama school I.

think and the world said to me. you're black. it was a real sort of wake-up call for. me. and. seriously contributed to. what happened two years after I left. going back to your your mother and your. father how was their relationship and. your early experience with them shaped. the man that you are today. who are they as people. wonderful people in a very very.

um my mother was extremely strong. and uh. my dad was a kind of a quiet silent type. really. uh very proud. um. didn't really speak much. didn't really. um. it wasn't wasn't particularly involved. in our education wasn't particularly. involved in shaping.

who we were you know he. was very much hands off. you know it was a long distance large. driver so he was away a lot. and when he came back he would sort of. sit and what's the telly. and in peace and just you know. I often tried to talk to him when I was. a kid but he he was a very difficult man. to sort of. open up. um whereas my mother was my mother was. always sort of talking and.

and sort of cajoling and very welcoming. of her friends and. she was just a really wonderful. character and still is very very funny. but you know she tells me now stories. that she used to you know some of the. fights that she had some of the battles. that she had. when I was writing my book. you know as I said we were the only. black family on that street and. she was constantly in conflict with. with. neighbors with. um racists.

and she didn't back down she was very. very sharp and fearless. sounds like my mother Fearless. your father. um you write a lot about how hard. working he was. um the the lack of affection you've. described there the lack of openness. um. as you look back now was there a is.

there was that was there a cost to that. to him and to. the family to you. I think so I think so I think I think. the fact that he didn't that's difficult. because it feels as like I'm criticizing. him. and I don't really want to do that but. I think it was a loving home. there was a lot of laughter in the house. but that's you know he he loved. you know all the British sitcoms and of. the time and.

one of my favorite sounds was the sound. of him laughing I loved. hearing him laugh hear my mum laughed it. was the house seemed full of laughter. when I was growing up so there was a lot. of. you know there was a lot of humor in the. house but there wasn't necessarily a lot. of tenderness. and you know I I kissed my kids every. morning when they go to school it's just. that why but I. I don't know why that's important to me. maybe it's just become habit but I want.

them to know how much I love them and I. want them to know. um how much respect I have for them and. how much how proud I am it's important. for me to do that and maybe it's because. my dad didn't do that. not not because. not because he he um. purposely didn't do it I just think just. don't think he thought it was that. important maybe. do you think he knew how to do that I. don't know if he did.

I don't know if he did and um. but I think that's kind of true of a lot. of men of that generation. showing emotion wasn't very easy for. them. and also I think. it's really interesting a friend of mine. tells me this story of. it's very particular to the 60s and 70s. which is why I'm you know I was a. director and and.

I'm very I'm fascinated by this period. of. late 50s 60s 70s England. because I don't think people understand. the level of racism. that was present in this country and. he's got goosebumps then because they. don't understand it and the idea of. being othered. that you would leave your house and. literally take your life into your hands. I mean I remember. randomly getting off a bus. and instantly being chased by a group of.

skinheads and you would just. automatically find yourself runny. now. to to be to to have come here. from the Caribbean with ideas of streets. are paved with gold England being the. mother country. to have come here with that idea and to. be met with that amount of hostility. to be met with. with.

that amount of abuse that amount of. rejection. I think it's seriously damaged. not just my father but many people who. came here in that generation that. Windows generation because it's. fascinating to me how many. Caribbean parents. do not want to talk about that period. just do not want to go there. because I think it was horrific.

and I think it damaged him. I haven't really thought about that. before well I you know really considered. it before but I do think. that was a tough period for a lot of a. lot of us and whereas in America you. know movies have been made plays have. been written about that. generation about that um period we've. not really looked at it. I have to be completely honest I you. know I grew up in 90 I was born in 1992. came to the UK when I was two years old.

from Botswana. um. I I always saw my mum have this I'll. describe it as this like. competitive uh. I'd say it's slightly competitive. attitude towards people and this like. General belief that other people were. racist and I never understood it I never. understood I never fully understood it I. just thought she she viewed the world as. big being racist and as I've done this. podcast and specifically spoken to. people from. the 50s 60s 70s 80s.

and and early 90s. my mind has been blown because I don't. get I didn't get it of course you know. and it's interesting as I listened to. the wonderful Chris yeah and the world. that he was talking about I know that. I've I I remember it. you know growing up in those in in I was. born just after Chris. and five years after Chris but those. which is why he's such a legend for me. why him still Regis they are legends.

because as kids I watch them playing. football knowing full well. that 50 of that the crowd were giving. him so much abuse. regularly. and yet he was able to play football. smile score goals play aggressively I. was in all of those guys because I just. thought. I would be scared. as a kid I was scared and that's one of.

the things I've touched upon in my book. is is owning up to that idea that. I was terrified growing up in those days. because you just never knew. where a brick would come from where. where you know your a car would a car. would suddenly you'd be walking down the. street whistling yourself having a great. day next thing you know [ __ ]. [Music]. just monkey noises would just come from. nowhere.

and. you would just tighten tense up so I. grew up in that environment and that's. why I'm I'm well aware of it which is. probably it goes back to that your first. question about. what you need to know about me. that's the environment I grew up in so I. it was trying to form a sense of myself. it's constantly being. sort of. it's growing up at a period where you're.

othered. where you're in fear. and not understanding. Who You Are. was destabilizing I think and I'm in a. sense lucky that my house fell down when. it did and I was able to. put it back together again. where a brick would come from. you talk about a story being I think. five years old where brick comes through. the window of your family home.

well. [Music]. I wrote about it in the book and how how. you know exactly mornings was always. cartoon morning you know Saturday. morning cartoons back in the day again. you're too young tonight. um but it was always you know Tom and. Jerry and. Pepe Le Pew and I love Tom and Jerry it. was great it was just they were just on. constantly so you would sort of. you know you'd sort of run down and and.

watch Telly and and my my mum's my mum. was famous for her breakfasts. English breakfast. bacon eggs just chips Paula English. which we used to love and I remember my. mum calling us down. for breakfast and running down the. stairs and then hearing this smash. and we ran into the lounge. and there was an English breakfast. in glass. because a brick had come through the. window.

and just. there was glass all over our big kitchen. table. and we just all sort of stood there in. shock. and Mom said go back to bed. drapes back up the road back up to back. up to bed. but that was a sort of you don't know. where it came from. in the where it came from but we were. targets. your mum's reaction. there when I read about this seemed.

uncomfortably calm. well what are you gonna do you know and. she wasn't always calm and there was. times when she. she did you know grab people by the. colors and have people up there have. people up the wall she's fearless and uh. you know don't you ever call my son. that's like get that name again and she. was you know she was. Fearless but at the same time. you're powerless in that.

in that. setting. because you don't know who threw that. brick. and. um you're almost you know I think back. to it now and think. you know she she used to sort of walk me. to school. and be waiting at the school gate to. walk me home. and for me that was it was great to see. my mom's face at the end of school. um. but I realized later maybe why she did. that because when you did go home on. your own years later it was a bit of a.

minefield. you had to be careful. you were a target people don't. understand that especially people. especially people that haven't. experienced race racist debut the idea. of leaving the school Gates and the the. journey home being anxious. and looking over your shoulder anxious. there's a good word that's a good word. yeah which I you know we I didn't. realize at the time but I think it was a. huge amount of anxiety and then the. thing that the amazing thing about it is.

you might go a week without it you might. go two weeks without it you might go. three weeks with it and then you and you. relax yeah sure and then you're normal. and then Bang casual Wednesday afternoon. middle of the day [ __ ]. and suddenly you're right back to being. scared. and uh. I I don't really think. my you know I I I I I think my whole.

sense of self. because you know you do your best to. sort of. you do your best to normalize. that stuff and think I'm not gonna let. it affect me and I always had this and. then my mother's. words ringing my head don't let it. affect you hold your head up be strong. so you keep thinking no no I'm gonna. I'm not gonna let this affect me is that. good advice.

well you know I think yes. yes but um. it doesn't always work. it doesn't always work and the the the. you know it crystallized for me when. rather foolishly. I went I was a leader I don't know why I. was a lead United fan. and and. um. always used to watch watching Leeds. United they were the champions back then. and they came to Birmingham one year to.

to to to play Birmingham city and like a. jackass. I thought I'm gonna go and sit in the. Leeds end. and back in the day back in the day you. could um at half time you could. literally walk into the ground. so I thought you know. I think I was about 12 maybe about 9 10. or something like that. and I at half time I thought I'm gonna. sit with the lease fans. the idea of it now but I walked into the.

leads and at first it was just a couple. of monkey noises. and then it became like a chorus of. monkey noises. and then he became a chorus of go [ __ ]. and then it seemed like. thousands of people. was screaming abuse at me and I heard. these words in my my mother's words hold. your head up don't be scared. so I thought I'm gonna go and take my. seat. and I kept walking down the touchline.

but it got so loud. that in the end I thought I don't want. to sit with these people. so I turned around and walked away and. they cheat I remember them cheering. but I remember I was really shaken. and I remember that I remember to this. day this groundsman. well Ward you know to start member of. Staff as I walked out the ground he shot. you're like you're right kid. and I just went I was nodded and just. walked home.

but I was really shaken by it. because I'd done exactly what my mother. told me to. but it didn't work. in in your early teens after that your. father's mental health began to. deteriorate. what were the were there any events that. led up to that I I remember reading. about a moment where you come home the. lights are on and there's you find your. father's typewriter with one word. written on the typewriter yeah you just. said illness.

uh my dad was a prolific. sort of organizer. and uh. he started this this Darts League and. I was always on the typewriter writing. out the results and writing out that. who's played who and who had won and who. was going through to the next round and. who needed the trophy and who was gonna. where they were gonna play and what. times they played and he just he loved.

the darts. but he just took too much on. and. um. he was constantly sort of working at. this organizing this whole thing and. organizing the trophies at the end of. the season organizing the meeting. organizing that he was just always I. think he was just doing it all on his. own. and um. I I just think he just took.

on too much. and um. I didn't I didn't necessarily I didn't. necessarily. see it coming because I was quite Young. but um. it happened very very quickly. and. I always used to hear my dad go to work. in the mornings which is he was Keys. jingle jangle down the stairs. that was sort of my.

alarm. to get up for school was my dad hearing. my dad come downstairs and think all. right I've got to get up in a minute. and for a couple of days I didn't hear. it. and then we kept hearing arguments in my. in the in my mum and Dad's bedroom. and I thought this is something's not. right. I'm saying that for a while. I've heard the jingle jangle down the. stairs something's off I didn't quite. know what it was but I knew something. was off and then one morning I got up. and my mom said.

don't go into the kitchen. get changes up in the bedroom and go. straight to school at the front door. and um I did. and then that night. that's when my mom told me that that had. been sectioned so it happened it. happened really. quickly and they sort of kept me away. from it but unbeknownst to me my. brothers were. holding my dad down in the kitchen. because he would he he sort of lost it. how do they explain being sectioned to.

you when you're in your early teens. because I you know I. I would have no idea what that meant in. my early teens. they didn't really and it's. it was you know Dad's not well. father's not well he's been taken to. hospital. and. you know there's always that gig when. there was that all there's always that. sort of. that uh Gadget school that you know the. men in the white coats will take you. away you know you'll create that's you. know you're crazy or are you gonna be.

you're going to be taken away. and. that's what happened. my dad was taken away. um I didn't see it but I I knew he was. I knew that he'd been. unknown now obviously I'm having my. recent years I know that that's what had. happened to him he'd been sectioned. and when I was sectioned. um. I I suddenly realized. that. I suddenly read especially when I was.

writing the book I thought that's what. has happened to him and and that now. it's only once I'd written my book and. really understood what that was like. having your Liberty taken away from you. because I think that in prison is about. the only being locked up in prison about. the only times when your Liberty is. taken away from you. and. it was only then I started asking myself. sort of started looking at my Dad's life. in sort of retrospect and thinking. because he hated it my dad hated it.

and was never the same again when he. when he was released he was never the. same again and. I don't. think. I think he had a really bad time in. there. a really really difficult. and bad time which I don't think he ever. forgave my mother for. understanding what you understand now. about the nature of mental health and. what causes it and your own experiences. with mental health.

when you look at why how your father. became to be sectioned. have you got any suspicions about why. that happened beyond that he took on too. much at the darts. I do think that there was a lot of. resentment and anger built up in him. and you've got to wonder. why and this is I only found this out. again once I started writing my book and. started looking at Mental Health. and the numbers of black black people.

are over represented in the mental. health system in this country. and what I realized is that. it was Jamaican. psychologist who. who actually performed this um study and. he realized that black people. there's way less Mental Health. in Africa amongst black black. communities there is mental health. problems but way less psychosis and. but there's more in when they are.

transmitted to a western culture so. there's more Mental Health. episodes of mental health in England. amongst the black community and in. America amongst the black community and. I think there's something about. I call it in my and this is one of the. things that my therapist talks about. when you're in a white space. and that's not a derogatory term but. England is essentially a. what space. and I'm sure you've been.

in rooms where you're the only person. color. the higher ladder when they call it tall. poppy syndrome where the higher up the. ladder you get the less yeah on your own. people you see and. I think you know my thing I think. I think my dad had found it very. difficult coming from. the Caribbean. and coming to England. and. dealing with a completely different. mindset.

I think he'd found that. difficult. and. um. resentment had built up. and I I think I was going to say a point. earlier on that illustrates this but a. friend of mine used to told me that. his dad used to work on an assembly line. and in the days of in the 70s when Jim. Davidson was. doing his chalky routine.

that and he was the only black person on. the assembly line every Monday morning. after new faces or whatever it was that. Jim was on the comedians or everything. was doing his chalky thing every Monday. morning he would be chalky. and his dad would laugh and take it and. and then you know throughout the week. they'd be calling him chalky any big. daily development name chalky chalky. he's chalky his dad would laugh. and then on Friday night his dad would.

get drunk and beat the [ __ ] out of him. and his mother. and I think that was just a buildup of. resentment. of having to live in this place where. yeah everyone's calling me this name. everyone thinks it's funny. and I'm laughing but there's a buildup. of resentment that he then takes out on. his family. now I'm not saying my I'm not saying my. dad.

had that level of resentment but I think. it was just something about being here. that. he started to find difficult to live. with cope with mentally. when I read through. your book and also a lot of the stories. you've told me today I mean I remember. one particular story where you gotta you. got a girlfriend in school and then you. come into school the next day her father. has said that she can't be with you. because you're black this constant.

constant rejection social rejection you. used that word earlier on the word. rejection and it feels so apt because. that's really what's I think in a. psychological psychological level going. on even going to the football and then. being rejected socially from that crowd. and it's constant throughout your story. you know I've read these studies about. labeling Theory where when the world. tells when you tell somebody they are. something in these studies they they. eventually become it so you know there's. the famous prison study where they said. you're the guards who are the prisoners. they had to stop the study because the. guards were so harsh on the prisoners. and labeling 3 says exactly that your.

teacher says you're a d and you're going. to be a failure the chances are that'll. actually lower your performance your. self-belief how do you stop that. happening when Society has rejected you. for years and years and years growing up. the most formative time. I think you know I think I was lucky. because I I do think that uh. I lived amongst a lot of people who uh. you know who didn't Define you that way. so I think that was I was very very. lucky for that.

but. I think. I think that person had to I think that. house had to come down. which is why I think my breakdown was. all about the more I learned about it. the more I. realize that that image of that young. boy. a desire to start again I had to rebuild. my image of self. and. um.

that's what I've sort of it's. interesting because I even though it. happened 30 years ago I'm only now just. dealing with it because I only found the. records I only did that documentary I. only all this is recent and I think if. I'd talk to you last year. I'd probably be in tears by now because. so much of this is recent for me I'm. having to deal with a lot of it I just. I've spent the last 30 years in this. sort of cocoon not really. dealing with a lot of this stuff.

and it's only since reading my medical. records and doing that documentary and. uncovering all that trauma as I say the. first thing I read when I opened my. medical records from 30 years ago. which were the medical records that the. BBC found in the bowels of the. Whittington psychiatric hospital. I had no idea they were going to give. them to me no idea I had no idea they. even found them the first thing I read. was patient believes. he has merged hearts with a young black. boy.

and I just thought what is that. what is and I just looked through the. medical records and it's all to do with. my race and my identity. all of it I was just confused. I'd sort of Lost. touch with my. identity going off to drama school and. playing Romeo and Pushkin and doing all. these doing Molly air and Dostoevsky. doing all these European romantic you.

know playwrights and Shakespeare and all. these different characters and thinking. my character my color doesn't matter I. can do all these wonderful things and. then I came out of drama school and. every newspaper article. was all about my color. every job I went through was all about. my color. I could go for these jobs and not these. jobs. and I it just. it was like it it was like I hadn't.

was like I hadn't um. dealt with it. and dealt with my core identity. as a young black man. and. it all started to just. I started overthink it. what was your core identity that you. hadn't dealt with as a black man. I think just understanding myself as you. what your first question was. understanding myself in the world and. knowing. having confidence in myself there's too.

many questions about my identity I think. one of the things I. did when I. saw a therapist after my documentary. was I sought out. I've had therapy many times in my life. but I sought out a black therapist. a black male therapist. and that has been really strikingly. revealing. to me.

because some of the questions I had he. would kind of say well what do you think. why do you think like that and he would. question why I think like that. and. I found it remarkable how. he was able to make me understand that a. lot of things that I most a lot of my. fears a lot of my insecurities. only natural. uh. maybe potentially because I have maybe.

grown up. predominantly in the white environment. and maybe I didn't. maybe I wasn't comfortable with myself. I'm much more comfortable with myself. now. what were those fears and insecurities. foreign. black man.

you know. great at dancing great at sex great. chatting women upgraded it's great at. that. and. I felt maybe that I didn't always live. up to that. and if you have that. idea that. you can only be one way as a black man. but the world is telling you that you. could only be this way. then you sort of don't feel like you.

measure up. and. actually I've learned yeah you can be. vulnerable. that's okay. you can be sensitive that's okay you. um it's okay to be. not be. you know. darkest McFly you know who just beats. down all the girls dances fantastically. does you know he's the Alpha Black. it's okay not to be the alpha black guy.

it's okay. and uh that's taken me. a while to sort of understand about. myself. I think Jay-Z it's interesting I think. there's a thing about Jay-Z talks about. the gold silver bronze. the gold I think it's a book called How. to be black it's a very very funny book. we talked about the gold silver bronze. um black man you know the gold born in. the ghetto black wife black friends you.

know. silver ball in the ghetto. black wife went to University bronze. you know and you sort of you sort of get. less and less you're almost like you get. less it must be copper or something yeah. and and then you see but then you see. the effects of that in schools where you. go where you have teachers will tell me. that you know you get a really. intelligent black kid but just to fit in. with his peer groups he won't work as. hard because he fears the more.

intelligent he is the less black he is. the brighter he is the less black he's. seen the more and I hate that isn't that. funny being rejected by the White. Community but also the black community. well that's exactly what I had so you. know when I came out of Radha so I had I. had tough I had this sort of when I was. started being an actor you know. blackmens I'm like you're gonna be a. what. that's too white. you're too white man and then I went to. Radha and kind of did all these. Shakespeare all these plays and I came. out speaking like this and everybody.

went he's way too white. and so you're getting rejected by the. press and critics because you're black. and then you were also being rejected by. the black community because they you. don't look or see them sound like. you know man from the ends you don't. sound like you don't talk like that. so I really did feel like I was. an anomaly a quick word from one of our. sponsors I've got a tip for all of you. that will make your virtual meeting.

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milkshake on the market just mixed with. water it's been a game changer for me. because I'm trying to drop my calorie. intake and I'm trying to be a little bit. more healthy with my diet so this is. where he all fits in my life thank you. heal for making a product that I. actually like The Salted Caramel is my. favorite I've got the banana one here. which is the one my girlfriend likes but. for me salted caramel is the one. at age 23 I think it's age 23 you. um that's that's around the time you. were sectioned yeah this is a very.

strange way of asking the question but. in hindsight knowing now what you know. about why you were sectioned what was. going on in your life your mind your. environment the Press professionally. personally. what would you have had to change a void. do differently. before then. to have avoided that happening. that's a million dollar question.

this really is a million dollar question. and I'm not sure there was any. anything I could have done. I think that. I think it had to come down. so I I'm I'm a great believer that. in trauma there's a lesson. that. there was something in that for me of. value. I don't think any I don't think.

I mean I was very lucky that I came out. of it but I do believe and as I have got. older in my life. and having written the book and having. had so many people. tell me since writing that book. has so many people say thank you. I'm not crazy thank you he really you. really articulated everything that goes. on in my some of the frustrations that. comments I've only given voice to a. thing to things that a lot of people. experience just I took it to an extreme.

I think. and I think it's. probably uh. as an artist as an actor has benefited. some of my work. it's enabled me to take things perhaps a. step further than maybe what some people. can take things I think it's given me a. perspective. I think there's something I think there. was something of value for oh in it for. me. I don't. I think it had to happen I don't think I.

could have done anything to have stopped. it. which is. both um scary and um. worrying. what do you remember about that time. because it seems to be quite a blur when. you recount the events you it's almost. like you have these abstract memories of. just different moments well it's. interesting because I do believe I I. started this process thinking. that it was going to be fun. because it's like manic you know manic.

depression it is often psychosis. like like it's often preceded with a. Mania. heightened. Adrenaline Rush dopamine the dopamine. levels in your brain are heightened and. it's quite exciting. I'm not getting sleep. it's often drug induced and you are. really sort of. operating at this quite high level. and I.

I remember doing some pretty. extraordinary things I remember brief. moments of real sort of. mental acuity and. dare I say there was almost moments of. fun. but it's usually preceded by a crash. so I sort of went into this thinking I'm. gonna I'm gonna remember all our fun. things I did. some of the extraordinary things I did. and there were some really.

Wild. things I was experimenting with. a sense of reality what was real and. what wasn't real. thinking I could do anything and. it was uh. bizarrely. exciting. give me an example of something that you. recount that is well it's interesting. because my. one of the Consultants that was in the. documentary. tells me that um.

because I thought she asked me for an. example and I. I said I was walking walking down the. street one one morning. I hadn't slept all night. and uh. there was a guy across the road and he. had this huge Doberman. huge kind of massive muscular and I'm. normally quite afraid of dogs. and I just walked up to this I walked up. to this guy said what's that dog's name.

and he. jab or something and I looked at this. dog and I screamed the dog's name and. looks at this dog quite aggressively and. right in its face and the dog just. literally. literally lay on the floor and started. whelping. whelping on its back just freaked out. and the consultant said to me that often. dogs can pick up. um. some some. uh Energies.

Disturbed images. and I'd obviously really this guy was. really freaked out he said the dog was. literally whelping and moaning on the. floor and I just fixed this dog with no. fear and screened its name right in its. face just freaked the dog out. at night you were sectioned I read I. read that you were you hailed a taxi and. it was ultimately the exchange of the. taxi driver I mean this was an. extraordinary I mean that was an. extraordinary and again.

it was the voice of Martin Luther King. that was in my head. you hear voices and when you uh. one of the aspects of. psychosis which is what I suffered from. you can hear voices he'd have Illusions. illusions. delusions. that seem incredibly real to you. and um. I was lying in bed. and I just heard this voice in my head.

wake up. in bed looking around the room thinking. where's that come from. and this voice was in my head. it sounds totally bizarre but. his voice was in my head. and he went on to say look I don't want. to tell you who I am right now because. you're going to be really scared. but you have to go to Camden. you have to walk into this store don't. be surprised if it's open it's three. o'clock in the morning don't be. surprised to open whatever you do do not.

turn around and it was all these things. I had to do. whatever you do don't do this whatever. you do don't do that but then go to go. into this store walk to the back of the. store there's going to be one suit. hanging up on a rack in the back at the. back of the store you need to put this. suit on and when you turn around don't. be surprised to find out that it's two. o'clock in the afternoon I said I'm. gonna I'm going to close the space time. continuum and we are going to close the. gap between good and evil this whole. thing.

and it was it ended up being Martin. Luther King he said he was Martin Luther. King. and he said when you when you. because I played mine as a king as a kid. and it was my first. the first acting thing that I'd ever. done. he said when you played me as a child I. entered your heart. and when I was he said even though I'm. speaking to you from Beyond the Grave. I need you and two or three other people. in in the world to.

activate something. and close the the the gap between good. and evil and he said so you're going to. sacrifice yourself tonight and you're. going to be an angel. and this voice was. swear to you. was like. real in my head. and I'm sobbing in my bedroom listening. to this voice so tonight's the night and. that was the night I was eventually. sectioned but I got up. got my clothes on and walked all the way.

to Camden. obviously the shop was closed. it's 10 o'clock in the morning you know. I'm out of my nuts so um. and I was exhausted and I thought I've. got to go home and flagged a cab down. and I didn't have any money. and uh I don't remember I just I just. remember this driver looking around and. then the driver pulling over and then.

um lots of flashing lights obviously the. police. and then being in the back of a police. wagon. and then. sitting in a cell and all this was just. I'm in and out of. what seemed like a dream for me I didn't. I I was in and out of I remember being. in this cell and then going to. magistrates court in the morning. and not remembering when they didn't. remember my name.

at all didn't know who I was. couldn't remember who I was. and um. the duty solicitor sort of talking about. my mom and then said my dad's name is. Romeo and I went Romeo. hang on a minute I've played Romeo. yeah I played Romeo played running you. David David. that's I used my I used my sort of. career to get back to who I was.

then left went to court. and I had no idea what was happening in. this court I mean I was the judge was. speaking at me and I was just. a mess. and I walked out of court and again. lucky but some woman who'd been in the. court. walked out and said. to me are you okay and I said I don't.

think so. I don't know I don't know who I am and. she gets she said where do you live and. I said I can't remember she said what's. your nearest Tube Station. and I said yeah hybridizlington and she. flagged the cab down gave the driver 10. pounds said take him to hybrid Islington. and I got out of Hope in Islington. walked home and my friends were. waiting for me because I've been looking. for me all night couldn't find me. and that's the night that's the day that. they. knew something was even though they'd.

been sitting with me. and visiting me for the last couple of. weeks because they knew something was. off. they knew it wasn't well. and that's the weird thing about. mental health or particularly psychosis. you see somebody. acting very strangely something you love. it could be your son your husband your. mom your they just suddenly start acting. out of character. becoming obsessed with something or. it's like they just suddenly change and.

you know you know something's wrong. but you sort of Hope desperately hoping. that they sort of come back. and that's sometimes you know they don't. and you have to make that call. to have them sectioned and luckily for. me. my friends had been there because if. they weren't there I think I would have. been in real trouble. oh my God I would have been in real. trouble. if that would have continued. I'm not even sure I would have been.

here today. so I was very lucky. how long did that process last before. you were sectioned of the slope the sort. of gradual deterioration well I think it. was happening for a while because I I. remember working. and not feeling great. so I'd say at least two or three months. there was a slow progression. of. not sleeping. overthinking.

trying to hide that. drinking. to sort of. self-medicate a new one wasn't well. but I thought I could handle it. I'm trying to understand how much of. that you believe is to a physiological. biological. situation or maybe predisposed by. biology versus circumstance experience. and. the things that you'd been through.

I think and again I mean we didn't you. know speaking to my con the consultant. who. was working on my documentary It's a. combination of both things. your propensity your your. uh the chances of you having a breakdown. are sort of reliant on levels of stress. lack of sleep.

what's called Aces which are these. fundamental like people who. experience trauma. in life I mean for me I think it was. my parents divorce. and not dealing with that. not dealing with that at the time so. much of it has just been squashed not. dealing with some of the trauma that was. in my life and I think a lot of it was. coming out. slowly coming out then in that one slow.

progression of being deeply unhappy. why. why were you deeply unhappy I read that. and I thought what I as I say I came out. of drama school. and the hostility. that I was met with as a young black. actor. was ferocious newspapers newspapers. reviews just dismissing me completely. dismissing me and I sort of left John's. school with a bit of heat people are all.

really excited to see what I was going. to do and. school was very very excited to you know. everybody was talking about this young. young kid coming out of drama school. it's going to be you know and I just got. slaughtered. slaughtered all about race all about. race. I played Sloan. in Entertaining Mr Sloan Mrs lonia who. is quite a devious bisexual character. murder he's actually also a murderer and.

um. not only there was one review a black. reviewer who said who was outraged that. I'd taken the part because I was letting. the side down. and he said that people should go and. demonstrate their disapproval. of Mr harewood's choice of employment. and. I read it I was like wow. put that down and I noticed that night. people as Sloane has this really kind of.

tough monologue. we talked about abusing somebody and. in the middle of this monologue I saw. people get up and walk out. and I noticed that they were black. and then the next night more black. people started walking out and it was. always in the middle of that monologue. black people would get up. and walk out. and it was really tough to deal with. it was really tough to try and they were.

such. Chop Sing and. but as they walked out. and sort of it was really disturbing me. because I had to. get on with the play. and that was only the second act there. was another three so the whole way. through that play I Was sort of coping. with why did they walk out. get on with the play seems to be quite. an apt metaphor for that period of your. life. yeah and I wasn't really dealing with it. so dealing with the fundamentals so I.

think. that's when the drinking started. to to be able to get through the play I. started drinking to be able to I started. self-medicating so I was drinking a lot. before during after the show smoking. after the show. and the whole thing the stress the smoke. the overthinking. lack of sleep lack of sleep. just ended up. making me spiral. how long from being section to getting.

back to acting how long was that sort of. recovery process per se it was a lot. quicker than I realized actually which I. which surprised me I thought it was. going to be months but it was I was. sectioned for about five days initially. and then again in Birmingham. for another. five days. um. and then the recovery was just about. convincing my mother that I was okay. because she was she was convinced that.

it was acting it was acting that sent me. crazy and then I was never going to act. again. and that I was never going to go back to. London again I was never going to be. allowed to act again. uh. so she kind of watched me like a hawk. for about a month. maybe a month six weeks. and eventually. uh she she allowed me to travel back. down to London and get on with my career.

I sat here with uh Maisie Williams. um the young Game of Thrones actress and. she talked to me about how act acting. was a form of escapism in her life. because her home had such little joy. that acting became this place almost. this therapeutic place where she could I. guess in some respects abandon that. identity and I remember reading from. this like Swedish philosopher which I. wrote about my book Once Upon a Time who. said that when we um if we try and. abandon ourselves. um well ultimately just bear around he. wrote this 200 years ago so he was just. you know yeah if it's still true that's.

right yeah that's why I really it always. stayed with me if we try and abandon. ourselves and we're successful we'll. despair at the fact that we've abandoned. ourselves and our identity if we try and. abandon ourselves and we're unsuccessful. we'll despair at being unsuccessful in. our in our attempts to become other than. we are and he concludes in his like big. philosopher piece that the only true way. to be happy is to accept that which you. who you are and to not abandon yourself. um he you know that's his conclusion. after this long study that he's done on. people.

um it that kind of felt almost quite. true when I think about what acting is. in many respects but for Maisie it was. this this attempt to abandon the self. and actually to not confront the issues. and then she ultimately had to at some. point. confront those issues and what had gone. on in her family home what her father. had done to her but acting was her. Escape at 12 or 13. is any of that reminiscent to or does. any of that ring true specifically this. idea of like the role acting played in. identity for you.

acting is the only space I feel 100. confident in why. because everyone knows the lines. everyone knows where they're going to go. everyone knows the movement everyone. knows the play on stage I just feel it's. probably my what's where I'm at my. happiest. why. it's I can't explain it I just become. you become somebody else you know when.

you're when you're. the true nature of a thing of art it's. like somebody who paints I think you. know they want to create something and. they're free to create like Van Gogh. could be taught that it could be. tortured but he can still produce an. amazing piece of art you said that I'm. not disappointing because I become. someone else so what does that say about. oneself if I'm myself I'm full of this. insecurities there's doubts there's. there's decisions to make there's about. which is what which is why life I think.

is so. unique. I don't know what you're going to say. next none of us know that's what's so. beautiful about it and so fantastic. about it but on stage it's a controlled. environment so for those two hours. can be king Lear I can be a fellow and I. completely put myself into that and it's. that's I feel it's like I'm at I guess. you would I guess you could say I'm. football to say that. you know on the pitch. no problems George best on the pitch a.

genius off it. an alcoholic. somebody who can't con somebody who. can't cope Maradona on the pitch a. genius off the pitch something else you. can't cope with. life life is. uncontrollable life is. full of contradictions full of. difference full of. failures and success it's just it's it's.

uh. it's very difficult to distill. whereas on stage. I know you know I can play that. and I. can put myself into that and pour myself. into that character and I feel great. it's the most freeing place for me it's. the most. freeing thing I could it can I've ever. experienced and that's why I love it so.

much that's What Maisie said. she said it was for her she said. actually it was the only place she. experienced Joy yeah I could not. completely completely understand that. but what that not to be repetitive but. what is that saying about the nature of. our our life in terms of why can't life. be joyous as equally joyous what would. we have to do to make our our acting. life when we're King well that's the. secret I guess and that's that's the. secret of sort of finding a place where. you can be and I'm sort of on the way.

you know where you can experience joy. and I think that's that's a. it's a lifelong struggle but you have to. work at it 2019 you was the the first. time 2017-2019 was the first time she. really opened up about your experiences. in terms of to the Press I'd always I I. mean like that's that was the. shock of it is that I tweeted. 2017 tweet randomly tweeted.

as somebody who's had a breakdown just. want to say look have a great that was. meant World mental health day oh yeah. somebody's had a breakdown I just want. to say look after yourself today get. some help if you can. got on the plane flew to America got off. the plane 50 000 retweets. calls from ITV calls from the BBC course. from the guardian calls from the. Independent oh my God you had to break a. nice completely forgot I hadn't gone. public with it I've told everybody. it's been a bit of an anecdote for me a. bit of a late night drunken anecdote for. me that I'd had a breakdown and spent.

time in a minute but it's only since. doing that and I've really looked at it. and really understood it that. moment of oversharing has led to all of. this has led to my first book it's going. to lead to my second book it's led to. this. Reckoning. which would not have happened had I not. have sent that tweet. 2019 you um produced the documentary hmm. everybody talks about that documentary.

really incredibly powerful but just. artistically brilliant in so many ways. but so many people talk about it you. know I even had members of my team put. in big brackets it is so good when they. were referring to a documentary they. don't usually do that it was really. profound and important in so many ways. how did that change your life. again because. um. and it's this is really hard but I'd I'd. seen that documentary. almost a thousand times because I.

watched it every day a year before it. went out. the night it went out. I was absolutely terrified and I as soon. as I saw adverts for it I panicked. and I was you need to call the BBC and. said I don't want to go I I just take it. off take it off I was really scared and. and that that was really unusual with me. because I'd seen it and I I was happy. with it. but going public with it was a whole. nother thing and I was really scared.

really anxious and the hot I think the. whole house picked up on it because my. kids went to bed early. my wife went to bed early. you know and she watches you know she. went and she was like she was afterwards. she said she was wearing the you know. the kids might get ribbed at school or. you know your dad's there is that. and I didn't even thought about that. I suddenly thought [ __ ]. you know. I'm letting people in here.

and I was really scared. and I remember I that night I had a. therapy session online with my therapist. and when we finished it it was kind of. dark and I thought. well it's got half an hour left to go. I'm not even going to watch it I'm just. gonna go to bed. and I was just about to go to sleep. and see every single device in my house. was beat. everything was just buzzing and it was I. lost God and then the house house phone.

went and I jumped out of bed to I didn't. want to wake the house and it was my mom. and first thing she said was brilliant. and that really calmed me down I went on. my watch when she said I've just watched. it she said it's brilliant well done son. huge side relief. and then started looking at all these. messages and emails and they were all. really emotional and like. and moving.

and um. went to bed and. got up enrollment to take my dog for a. walk like I normally and I could not. walk 10 feet. without complete strangers. coming up to me in tears I swear to God. going I just want to say Mr Hayward. thank you and I'm normally when you're. an actor people leave you alone. you know what it's like when you're on. the telephone that's that God for telly. but suddenly it was Mr Harewood not the.

guy from the Homeland or the guy from. Supergirl or the guy from it was Mr. Harewood excuse me I just want to say. thank you so much tears strolling down. their face my dad had a breakdown and we. never talked about it and just want to. say the fact that you we all suddenly. started talking about it and start. talking about Dad and. I'm blubbing there crying then I go. thank you very much walk up somebody. else excuse me Mr hair we just want to. say and I I suddenly realized how common. it is. and how everybody was touched by it.

because you just don't talk about it. it's a shame. attached to to particularly psychosis. and particularly to being taken away. it's a shame attached to it for some. reason maybe because I'm an actor I have. no shame so me. a recognizable. successful actor. talking about it. allowed them to talk about it got a call. from mine saying.

phone's ringing off the hook people are. talking about psychosis because they. didn't they didn't that now they. understand what happened to their son. now they understand what's happening to. their who's only just been sectioned. that morning and on this book tour I've. constantly. do signings. and um. nearly every single time I sign I go to. one of these book tours. there's somebody who comes up to buy the. book for it to get signed and they're.

crying and they go I've just come out of. a mental institution I just want to say. seeing you. it gives me hope. that I can get better. or there's a mother who says my son's. just been crying her eyes out. my son's just been sectioned he was away. at drama he was away at school because. it happens normally when kids go to. university. or when they go away from home and they. might smoke they might drink they might. find themselves in a strange environment. that's when it happens. and uh.

the amount of times I've had to kind of. get up and just hug the stranger and. just say they'll get better. I sometimes sit here with people and. there's a moment where they let the wall. down and the wall can be a number of. things sometimes it's sexuality. sometimes it's something that they've. been holding inside of them you know. they might have told friends but letting. the world in and then feeling that. feedback that that you know people did. weren't attacking them they didn't lose. their job and and that sometimes can be. quite a liberating thing from then on. once we've let the wall down whatever it.

is and really let people in and see our. our deepest insecurities or our fears. life can feel different we can be more. open and honest and vulnerable and can't. say that happened because I then had. three years of dealing with it yes tell. me about that because I thought. oh okay I've let the world in and as you. say Where's that moment of. relief yeah and it was torture. because I couldn't cope. with all these people coming up and.

saying thank you so much normally you've. got that shield and said you've got that. Shield as a recognizable face where. people don't bother you on the train. people don't bother you in the street. but they were and they were coming with. these really emotional stories. some people some people's parents died. being restrained now I I talk about. seven policemen jumping on me and giving. me what's called an emergency. tranquilization I'll talk about that in. my book. how I survive that I don't know because.

countless people have died like that. black people. being restrained by police the amount of. Crim the criminalization of that. the criminalization particularly black. people in that period of illness of. psychosis is look at the people in. America you people shot. because they're acting strange they're. in they're in a moment of medical crisis. but they happen to be naked running down. the street screaming. you will get shot people don't.

understand it people have been arrested. people have been one guy knew he was. having one guy I met knew he was having. a breakdown I went to the hospital. they refused to treat him went to. another hospital they refused to treat. him started banging on the door they. called the police he got arrested he got. into he got sent to prison and he was. only in prison that he got treated. so this whole book is has really opened. up the whole. how particularly people of color are. criminalized at a moment of crisis.

by being arrested and then being treated. like for me it was only when I showed. the book to my consultant she said do. you realize you were given three times. the legal doses of tranquilizers. and I said why is that she said well it. was it's and then I again once the book. got out I had somebody. contact me saying this is standard. practice. because most people are afraid of big. black men. so most times a large black man is.

sectioned you will get knocked the [ __ ]. out. for no medical reason other than we're. scared of this big guy let's just up the. dose here. and that's all it was. so it just all this stuff was coming out. all these stuff was coming at me. and I couldn't really. process it. and I remember going into my therapist. and just flying my eyes out because it's. too much it's too much I can't cope with.

it. and funnily enough my medical records. that I find in the documentary. I hadn't opened those. notes for two years since I got them. since filming it. but before I wrote the book and I knew. where they were they were in my flat in. Vancouver and exactly where they were. and. once I decided to write the book. I remember flying back to shoots the. next season of Supergirl. and we flew into quarantine because it.

was a couple years ago so you had 14. days on your own and the first thing I. did walk in the flat got my medical. records out and I read them cover to. cover. and that was really tough because you're. reading your Disturbed self everything. that I'd said done was was recorded. so I'm reading all the stuff I did and. flashes of moments that I thought [ __ ]. that's where that memory comes from. second Pace in the middle of the office. and.

just the most weird stuff that I did and. said. is it scary to know that it's you're. capable of going getting to that place. yes no and and. you know again I think of myself. thinking about the acting side of it you. know I've always had this ability to. not method. but I really throw myself into a. character and I love that. and I think maybe there's part of me. that.

having pushed myself having let myself. go not many people. go there. I literally went crazy. crossed the line into unacceptable. Behavior where your behavior is deemed. we have to. take you away. unsafe for yourself and for others. sectioned. I've crossed that line. so for me now I think.

in acting anything up to that line is. fair game it's a fair game and I love it. and I that's why I would more will push. push myself and I look for characters. who are like that because who do push. uh. that's what I don't know that's what. makes acting so so great for me and so. exciting because I can behave like. something somebody else but even reading. about. even reading about psychosis is someone. that's never been through it. it makes me realize that it's completely.

possible for me to find myself in that. situation absolutely anybody and that. and that's what because you know when I. grow up with mental health I thought. something happened to other people and. then you and then you get a flavor of it. right yourself and you go [ __ ] we can. all we all have uh mental health and and. reading the stories of psychosis and how. a very normal young man can quite. quickly apparently quickly very quickly. yeah but I mean you from what you've.

described it's a series of events over. time but apparently very quickly fall. into that situation. in some respects makes me. realize that you know we are very highly. strong individually I'm in the brain. yeah you know how incredible that is an. incredible muscle. an incredible one so there's thousands. of of of. uh firing Electro at five thousands. every day just going off in our brains.

some of the misfire. and you. some of them. very quickly can lead to you taking your. own life. and. you know I know how. having you know having been there I said. I was. I'm just lucky that I think my doctor. said it that he said you know we're. lucky David is uh. calm. essentially. a clown because my psychosis played out.

in all sorts of silly ways. but that I did everything that voice. told me to do that night. had that voice of told me to jump off. Thames Bridge I would have done it. I would have done it. so. I've met people who the voice told them. to throw themselves in front of as that. young girl in the documentaries throw. yourself in front of the next white van. and she did. and he hit her.

you know it is it is a very powerful. thing. and it can happen to anybody. where did you find yourself today so. you're three or three or four years on. now from that documentary coming out and. you've been on that Journey as you. describe it of rebuilding the house and. yeah I think you know it's taken me this. long to I think I've come through I.

think I was really in pain. I didn't realize at the time but I think. I was really specific when the. documentary went out. I was very very vulnerable. and it really was painful I and I it was. uncomfortable. and I used I get what I would get very. emotional. I'd be in Tesco's and somebody had come. up to me as I bought my sausages to say. I saw your documentary and I would just. go. they'd go I'd go why.

being reminded of it was they would make. me cry because they'd tell me about. their uncle. and they'd start going I don't know it's. something about the helplessness of. seeing a loved one. acting very out of character. and. some of them don't recover. because you don't understand it so I I. used to find it very emotional. and I think I've moved through that.

period of. vulnerability into a period of healing. and I think I'm in that healing period. now I said to you if you just if we'd. have done this doc this podcast last. year I don't think I'd have got through. it like this it would have and every now. and again I find a rising emotional. level as I'm talking about it now. because I know it sounds very weird. yeah I feel like everyone must be. sitting there thinking God he's nuts so. you know. but I sort of dealt with that was there.

ever any regrets about doing that. documentary yes really yes. which all disappeared the morning after. I it went out the the regrets were all. the night before after all the regrets. were and then maybe afterwards there was. like maybe I've said too much you know. maybe people don't now see because since. then I've done a lot more a lot more. documentaries. and um more documentaries than I have. dramas and.

I've been back in England now for a year. and in America I was playing leading. characters. three-dimensional authoritative. characters and I haven't had a single. offer of anything like that since coming. back. and that's been really worrying I. suddenly thought thing well maybe I. would say too much. or maybe I'm not. you know. you know I thought maybe I may be across. the line. but I don't care anymore and I've sort. of sort of gone well I'm embracing who I.

am now. okay sorry you you've since you came. back from America yeah you haven't had. enough uh to play leading characters not. one and do you have a suspicion that. that's to do with I I worried that. that's what I'm saying you say you know. you you talk about do I think there was. a fear of that I don't think that's the. case yeah but it's just but but again. those are insecutors and fears and maybe. I've said too much maybe people feel now. or you don't want One reviewer said oh. David all we see him now is in.

documentaries I said but the only reason. you see me in that is because I'm not. going to play some [ __ ] role hmm. I want complexity I want a challenge so. when I'm finding that in the world of. documentaries and I really enjoy doing. that. this has never been done before. ever. keeping a diary has fundamentally. changed my life it's the single thing. that has advanced my personal. development more than anything else that. I've done I always say there's no. personal development without. self-awareness you can read as many.

books as you like but if you can't read. yourself you'll never learn a thing this. is the world's first Diary that listens. to you understands you and then provides. you with tailored support from the. world's leading experts in health. Finance work and relationships so that. you can overcome the things that are. limiting you in order to reach your. Highest Potential a limited number of. these Diaries are going to go on sale in. November and the waiting list is open. now so go to. thediary.com and add your name if you.

want to come on this journey with me. your career as an actor. um and now as an entrepreneur and many. other things in a director unbelievably. um successful unbelievably successful. um against many many odds. why you. yeah you have the talent you're a Class. Clown you said that you know back in the. school days and all these things you're. a funny guy but that's not enough. I know lots of funny people they're not. actors. I don't think that's for me to say no. but this is this is why it's such a. tough question because I actually think.

only you would read you know people. might have told you along the years but. I really think that when you look at. your peers that's one way I've tried to. figure myself out is what makes me. different from these other my peers in. my industry and I go oh ah that's the. thing I'm particularly good at that bit. there that's interesting though because. you know. and again maybe I'm over sharing but you. know my therapist we talk. you know sometimes you know when I first. started to ask him about this not living. up to this ideal blackness. he said well part of the reason why you.

have been so successful. is because. you are this. you can go. it can be over here you can be over. there you're formless and then I love. that Bruce Lee will say it's not be like. water. you pull water into cup it's a cup you. pour water into a bottle it's a bottle. you pull water into a teacup it's a. teacup I haven't tried to be one thing. and I think some actors come out think. I'm going to be like this. and I'm going to be like that and I.

haven't. I changed my voice because I didn't want. to play brummies All My Life. so I learned the RP. I can do if I wanted to do Street I can. do Street well which is always used to. pissed me up when I was young because. people got always a bit too rather it's. a Carrick I play characters but because. you're I don't know maybe black actors. don't play characters they just play. black people. play characters and I think that. that USP that I've had that I like.

playing characters. has enabled me to. change. and it's also what's constrained me. because as I said to you when I came out. of drama school you would you weren't an. actor you were a black actor. these days you're allowed to be an actor. John boyega is an actor. Daniel kaluya is an actor he's not a. black actor when I came out I was a. black actor and I found it so. constricting I'm more than this I can. play anything.

and that's maybe you know that's what I. think is my. of my generation that's probably one of. the things that I. perhaps gave me my unique. USP. it's funny the things that often give us. our USPS are also entirely linked to the. things that give us our difficulties and. our struggles and it seems to be the. case in what you've said it's funny. because what I heard from all of that is. that your versity your versatility as an.

actor came from the versatility that you. you've had to demonstrate in your real. life as well. 100 and I think. that my experience particularly. getting out you know getting out of a. mental institution acting my way out of. my institution uh. it's all been good training and I think. you know my Crossing that line has given. me that USB that kid that came out of. radar if you could have a chat with him. if he was sat here. you could just say a couple of sentences.

to him the sentence is I would 100 tell. him. and I tell this to all young actors. two young people be prepared for. the tough times. people think it's going to be life is. going to be roses and people think it's. going to be easy. and yeah things are great now. but. be prepared for when things get a bit. Rocky. because they will get Rocky tough time. you know yourself in business it's not. all about. winning sometimes you learn your best. lessons in failures.

so I would would just. and again we'll talk about this with my. therapist that. I didn't take care of my younger self. I did I didn't take care of him so now I. try and take care of my younger self and. I always try and tell people look after. yourself. really look after yourself because. what does that mean to you. look after yourself. uh. control what I can control.

and don't if I don't get a job I don't. get a job I can't there's nothing I can. do about that. I can control how I feel about it. and just think it wasn't for me. and right now as I said to you. there's thousands of things that are. going my way and thousands of calls. again acting maybe not but that's okay. it'll come around maybe it'll come. around. I can't control that I can control what. I can control so I've just got to keep.

myself sharp look after myself don't. allow I could easily allow myself to get. down now because I've not been. working. but I'm I'm busier than I've ever been. outside of that creating this company. looking to recreate other work doing. documentaries meeting people. it's it's a very exciting time for me. and I wouldn't have had this time had I. been starring in some show. so. there's benefits to having time on your.

hands when you said that about. controlling what you can control it made. me realize that this word popped into my. head I almost imagined myself stood at a. Crossroads and one path was like control. what I can control and that says left. acceptance. and on the other hand the right turning. is the resentment that you said your. father had which is that slowly slowly. slow Insidious build up of like. resentment towards the world it's a. choice it can't go that way and I'm. determined not to go that way is keep it.

open Keep. attracting Good Vibes. and at the moment that's where it's. leading and it's very it's a very. exciting time I've only been back a year. as well so. who knows what's going to happen we have. a closing tradition on this podcast. where the previous guest asks a question. for the next guest before I ask you the. question I actually was really intrigued. because I know you've just you've. started a production company what was. the thinking behind that and how's that. going. it's a new challenge it's very exciting. and uh you know I think over the last.

couple of years I've seen how some. people. I've been involved in projects and I. don't I haven't exactly been run very. well and I think well. I I you know I've now got the experience. to know I can do that job. I I know I'm bringing my A-game but it's. the people above me aren't bringing. their a game. it's gonna make it tough so. I'd like to bring Excellence to. everything that I do that's what I think. I do is I bring Excellence to everything. I do so.

I want to put some Excellence out there. and what do you want to make what kind. of things documentaries dramas give. myself some good roles. um why not you know but ask questions of. of the audience work in a different way. create work that isn't being written yet. why wait for somebody else to write it. create it yourself yeah. I'm 27 years old. you look about 35. thank you and you say. to yourself well why isn't that role.

come along yet. create it yourself. and that's one thing the younger. generation are doing brilliantly. starting their production companies. you know valuing themselves and I think. that's um. something I really want to do. but myself at the top be the boss man. like you. it comes with its costs but that's a. conversation for another time. um the question that was left for you. what is a personal Legacy.

you want to leave. for yourself slash children. foreign. I would say. crack open the universe you know inspire. those around me an inspirational. figure. in in what you do be an example in what. you do. and.

let me I'll give you an example of that. but. I've just been casting this film. and as a director. and um two leading roles two black two. two black people. all these young black kids. came in the door young black actors. and the first thing they said oh my God. man I used to watch you when I was at. school thank you so much for I had no.

I'm like I was feeling I'd probably be. feeling really depressed that morning. but even without me knowing just being. there. just by doing what I did I inspired that. kid. to think about even becoming an actor. just even think about it. so. I would say to you know that inspire. people by your action. crack up in the universe because we're. still living in an age where we're the.

first. I was the first black actor my fellow. this was the first black person that was. still living in that age. so I think there's a whole. Legacy to leave a whole Legacy to open. up. be an example. not just your generation but to Future. Generations. well David I have to say you're. certainly that you're certainly an. example you're certainly that. inspiration and that role models to so. many people so if that is your objective. then I think you've already achieved it.

in a tremendous way. um no doubt you've got so much more to. do and I have a sneaking suspicion based. on your tenacity and your. um which has been present since you were. a very young man that you'll find a way. to to crack open the universe in any way. that you desire I have absolutely no. doubt about that in fact thank you I. hope to do that that's my plan thank you. for inspiring me as well and I don't act. but watching um a black man rise so high. and Achieve so much is is incredibly.

inspiring for me and my role models um. are varied across Industries and you're. certainly one of them so but you know. what I I'm right back at you because you. inspired you likewise in yourself. inspire people and. you know I was listening to say listen. to your Chris Camara piece which was. beautiful by the way no thank you and. and and hearing how he's inspired people. in a lot of the people who go through. that if they don't think it they can't. even imagine the world but you even just. by being yourself you inspire people so.

let's right back at you. well thank you there it means it means a. ton coming from you and I'm sure this. conversation we're going to continue off. there in various forms so thank you. thank you huge inspiration. foreign. [Music].

[Music].