Daniel Priestley: AI Will Make Plumbers Earn More Than Lawyers! (2029 PREDICTION)

I was looking at the top 10 jobs that. are most likely to be disrupted by AI, and I really do worry about this. >> So, the nature of the economy is. changing. For a long time, blue-collar. work like plumbers, electricians, bricklayers has [music] been devalued. But, it could be in the next couple of. years, these are the roles that are. elevated the most, and that plumbers. regularly earn more than lawyers. And. for the last 25 years, I've been. building companies from scratch, and. I've been through the global financial. crisis and COVID, but I have never. experienced what we're experiencing. right now. I've never seen more fear for.

the disruption that is coming. And my. real bear case for AI is that [music]. every time you go on AI, your request is. going off to a big computer in a. Walmart-size building somewhere, and. those big ginormous [music] computers, they last 3 to 4 years before they need. to be replaced. And this year ahead, we're going to spend 650 billion, and. that could cause a massive financial. collapse. That's the thing that I'm. worried most about. However, I've never. seen more excitement for the. opportunities that are in front of us. >> So, let's talk about in a world of AI, what are the skills that survive?

>> really believe that everyone should. build a little bit of a personal brand. Not like to become an influencer, but. position yourself with a group of people. who know who you are and know what you. do, and could enroll you in their. opportunity. Second one, if there's one. skill set that everyone should be. learning at the moment, it's how do. entrepreneurs think? How do. entrepreneurs behave? What are the. skills that make an entrepreneur. successful? [music]. And entrepreneurs just simply follow six. steps, and we do it over and over and. over again, and we'll go through the six. steps. >> So, are there any particular. opportunities that you think that. anybody listening right now can pursue.

to make money? >> So, I think one of the best. opportunities is. >> That is such good advice that we don't. hear enough. This is super interesting to me. My team. gave me this report to show me how many. of you that watch this show subscribe. 69% of you that watch this show. frequently haven't yet hit the subscribe. button, and some of you have told us, according to this, that you are. unsubscribed from the channel randomly. So, a favor to ask all of you, please. could you check right now if you've hit. the subscribe button if you are a. regular viewer of the show and you like. what we do here, we're approaching quite.

a significant landmark on this show in. terms of a subscriber number. So, if. there was one simple, free thing that. you could do to help us, my team, everyone here, to keep this show free, to keep it improving year over year and. week over week, it is just to hit that. subscribe button and to double-check if. you've hit it. Only thing I'll ever ask. of you. Do we have a deal? If you do it, I'll tell you what I'll. do. I'll make sure. every single week, every single month, we fight harder and harder and harder. and harder to bring you the guests and. conversations that you want to hear. I've stayed true to that promise since. the very beginning of The Diary of a. CEO, and I will not let you down. Please.

help us. Really appreciate it. Let's get. on with the show. >> [music]. >> Daniel, I think we're living in the most. interesting, opportunistic, terrifying time to be an. entrepreneur, a professional, to really. be anybody, because this is a moment of. such fundamental change. And I really. wanted to have this conversation with. you today, because I want to understand. how you're thinking about AI from an.

opportunity standpoint as an. entrepreneur, but also just for. everybody that's working in a normal job. and who is at risk of having their their. career, their livelihood, their. identity, their qualifications made. redundant, because there is now an alien. amongst us that can do so much. So, this conversation really is about giving. people answers. It's about being honest. with them about what's coming, and it's. about preparing them, setting them up so. that they have an advantage. in the face of the future we face. So, give me the 30,000 ft view. >> Well, my background for the last 25.

years has been building companies from. scratch, and I've been through the. dot-com, and I've been through global. financial crisis, and I've been through. uh Brexit and COVID. I have never. experienced what we're experiencing. right now. I've never seen more. excitement for the opportunities that. are in front of us, and I've never seen. more fear for the disruption that is. coming. We are living. transformational times that is very. similar to 250 years ago where the end. of the agricultural age ended and the. beginning of the industrial age began.

>> I would argue that it's more significant. cuz there's two forces that kind of keep. me up at night. The first force is. AI which is you can think of it as just. the replacement of the human brain from. a sort of productivity standpoint. And. then the other is robotics. And the. problem is they're coming in at the same. time. And I was watching I don't know if. you saw this the other day. >> yeah. >> So I'll put this on the screen for. anyone that's watching the video right. now. But this is a demonstration that. took place in China of how advanced.

their robots are. And I had to check. multiple times to make sure that this. wasn't fake. They are doing backflips. and landing perfectly on their feet. And. so when you combine intelligence with. the disruption of our physical form, our. muscles, our body, our ability to pick. things up and move them through through. time and space, it begs the question like where do we. >> Where do we fit in to all of that? Strangely, there's something called the. Jevons paradox. And the Jevons paradox. is a paradox where when we think. something is going to completely disrupt.

the way that we uh live and work, it. often has the opposite effect. We. thought that YouTube was going to. completely wipe out television. And it's. true that Hollywood lost tens of. thousands of jobs, but YouTubing created. 500 to 600,000 jobs at the same time. And it used to take 150 people to make a. a TV show or a movie, and now it's five. to 10 people making YouTube videos as a. little team and they can have a wildly. successful YouTube channel. With the. Jevons paradox, if we currently said. that in order to have a successful.

software company right now today or in. the last few years, you needed to have. 10,000 customers and you needed to have. a team of 50 people and you needed to. raise 1 to 5 million dollars to get a a. software company off the off the ground. If all of a sudden the cost and the. commitment drops dramatically. to have a software company and you only. need 500 customers to work it to make it. work and you only need two people on a. team to make it work and you only need a. tiny bit of funding to make it work. What happens is like YouTube channels, you can end up with literally millions. of tiny little software businesses that.

are super successful for five to 10. people and they do something niche and. they do something special. They don't. look like traditional software companies. either. So a traditional software. company would just do the software. whereas these little software companies. might do software plus they might do. dinner parties where the clients get. together. They might have an annual ski. retreat. They might have a podcast and a. YouTube channel that goes with it and. all of that could be done by five to 10. people using AI tools. So the Jevons. paradox would basically say that there. is millions of unmet needs.

and that those unmet needs are not. explored because the cost to explore. them is too high. But because the cost. to explore those has come down, then now. we can actually have millions of. businesses that never existed that we. didn't even know we needed to exist. >> I was sat here the other day with Dara. who is the CEO of Uber. He turned around. Expedia, made it super profitable, turned around Uber that was losing two. billion, made it generate about nine. billion in revenue, 10 billion in. revenue. And he sat there and said to me. that their 9,000 couriers and drivers. won't have jobs in the future. And I'm.

so I sit and go, "Okay, so what are what. are they going to do? Are they all going. to start. businesses somewhere? Do they And also I. think one of the interesting things. about AI is the speed of transition. With the Industrial Revolution, there's. a little bit of a delay because. infrastructure took time to build. >> a long time to build. >> But this is the first innovation that. I've lived through that is built. >> It's instantaneous. >> on the internet. >> The minute an AI learns how to be a. lawyer in one place, it can be a lawyer. in every place. The minute it learns how. to diagnose a disease in in one. location, in one hospital, it can. diagnose a disease in every hospital in.

the world. So it's this instantaneous. rollout because it sits on top of a. network that already exists. >> This is what actually Boston Dynamics. said to me. I was watching a video of. their new robot that's working in. factories. It's a humanoid robot that. can work in factories, pick things up, move things around. They said the great. thing about robotics is if one of our. robots on a shop floor in Boston learn. something, all of our robots learn it. It's it's wild. So yesterday, Tesla built and they took. this wonderful photo because they built. the world's first Tesla cybercab. And if.

anyone doesn't know what a Tesla. cybercab is, it's the first ever fully autonomous car. that doesn't have a steering wheel and. it doesn't have pedals. >> Yeah, you just hop in and there's. there's no steering wheel, no pedals. You can't take control even if you. wanted to. >> The cybercab is the company's answer to. vehicles like the Waymo. The two-seater. coupe unveiled in 2024. comes without a steering wheel or. pedals. It's guided by AI and. they're now making them. The first one.

was made yesterday. Again, 100 over 100. million people's job is to drive and you. can get one of these now for Elon saying. $30,000. and you can rent them, lease them. You. can buy a bunch as investment assets and. set them out. >> Set up your own fleet and connect them. to different networks like Uber and all. of those sorts of things. And the cost. to move around is going to go through. the floor because, you know, my Uber to. come here today was probably $50. and that will probably be six or seven. dollars once that is rolled out. So, the.

thing that with the Jevons paradox is it. doesn't mean that everyone gets the same. job and that they get like there's just. more of exactly the same jobs. It means. that the transformation creates. exponential growth as a result of the. transformation in an unexpected way. So, >> [clears throat]. >> growing up, my mom worked in newspapers. and there was probably half a million. people working in newspapers as. journalists and all of those sorts of. things. And that has dropped by 80% in the last. 25 years. But at the same time, the. number of people who are bloggers, the. number of people who have substacks, the.

number of people. who are doing the kind of work of. journalists and actually making money as. a result of content creation has gone. 100 100 X. So, uh I think it's something. like three to four times more people now. make their money in a way that kind of. looks like a journalist than there ever. were journalists prior to the technology. that disrupted journalists. So, it's not. that it's not that those exact same jobs. uh are are replicated, it's that. something similar emerges as a result. >> I understand this and I when I read.

about the Jevons paradox, I like ran it. through my head multiple times to to. understand like how it fits in different. industries. But, there is a part of me. that still thinks this is slightly. different because in the example you. gave where there was a a content. creation industry that was then. disrupted by a content creation. industry, I go. yeah, this this the skill of. intelligence was still. of human intelligence was still. rare and scarce and.

only humans had it. >> Mhm. >> So, the disruption of got the content. creation industry to a different content. creation industry was still owned by. humans. That transition was still a. human one. But, in such a world where AI. agents can make if you go on a lot of. social media platforms, I shan't name. which ones, it's just pure AI slop now. >> Yes. >> It's just people's agents churning out. content that they haven't touched or. done anything about. And then I was I I. started saying to you uh before we. started recording that what we're going. to experience and what I think a lot of. people don't fully embrace about this. idea of becoming a content creator for a. living or building a personal brand is.

when you look at some of the graphs and. I'll throw the graph from the Financial. Times article on the screen, there's now. a plateau of people spending time online. for the first time in history, well, in. the first time in internet history. Gen. Z especially were the first generation. to plateau. >> Yeah. >> in their time spent. But, the amount of. content, the amount of AI agents, the. amount of people that are now choosing. to make to do content as a living is. exploding. >> Yes. >> So, you have a supply and demand issue. where there's a set amount, really like. a set amount of hours, cons sort of. consumption hours, and then you have.

this huge exponential explosion in. available content because a kid in. Mumbai. >> Yeah, the attention is a limited. resource. >> But content is. >> And content is unlimited. >> No. >> Yeah, and more so. So, AI slop is just. rolling in and it's also AI slop doesn't. do it justice. Some of my favorite. things to watch is AI generated. I'm. enjoying AI. So, think about it a little. when it comes to personal brand, think. about it a little bit like an airport. that the airport has got this fog. [clears throat] that is rolling in. If.

your airplane is already above the fog, then you you can continue to fly. But if. your airplane is not taking off already, then the fog is going to keep you on the. ground. So, like for example, you've. invested so much into your personal. brand. and people will come along to see you. live and they would love to go to dinner. party series that you know, [snorts]. involves you and they there's a whole. community around Doac, right? So, all of. those things means that your airplane's. already up in the air, you can continue. to fly. But if you were starting 2 years.

from now or a year from now or maybe. even 6 months from now and you weren't. smart about it, there's just too much AI. generated content, you won't get. traction. You won't get you won't get. that lift-off moment the same way. That. opportunity is coming to an end because. of that AI generated content. >> What I'm seeing in the algorithms, we do. some data analysis every year on the. variance of performance of pieces of. content we produce on different. channels. Now, I've been making social. media content for 15 years, so I have a. bit of a sort of a mental history of. like every year us doing this this.

particular data analysis to see the. variance between the worst thing we post. and the best thing we post. And this. year we did the same we ran the same. analysis with my data science team led. by Austin in my team to see if the. variance between the worst thing we post. and the and the best thing we post is. getting bigger because what that kind of. is a proxy of is is the algorithm caring. less and less and less about how many. followers I have and is it caring more. and more and more about whoever posts. the most interesting thing today, which. is if I was building a social media. company and my primary objective was to. retain people, I wouldn't care if you.

have two followers and Steven has 500. followers, I would just care about who. posts the best thing. So, we did that analysis and it's Oh, it's an almost perfect graph that looks. like this. And this is the variance increasing. >> Yep. >> Which actually means that okay, Steven's. taken off from the sky, but every day I. wake up increasingly, it doesn't matter. what I did yesterday. >> What we've seen is the end of social. media and the birth of algorithmic. media. >> Interest algorithms, we call them. >> Yeah. So, social media was all about.

connecting with your friends and finding. out what your friends are doing. Um, and algorithmic media is just. finding out what the algorithm thinks. that you should be watching today. But. with that said, there's this. multi-dimension to it, which is you've. got books, you've got live events, you've got the podcast, and it's the. multi-dimensional angle that actually. really sets you apart. The creators that. just simply want to put a piece of. content on YouTube and get paid through. AdSense revenue, and that really simple. that one-dimensional model, that's. coming to an end. But the creators that. have a community and they meet up in the.

real world, all of that is is part of an. overall ecosystem that is very. defensible. Because one, you know, people want all of that packaged up. together. >> Why is it fundamentally defensible from. if we think about first principles or. human Maslovian needs? >> Let me give you a big answer to that, which is if we go back in time to the. agricultural age, farmers had to know. when was a good time to plant the crops. And then they had to go out and toil the. soil and put the seed in the soil. And. the soil did most of the value creation. in the economy. At the end of that.

process, the farmer had to know this is. the day to harvest, and then we need to. harvest that, and we need to turn it. into something and take it to market. And AI is very similar, which is that. it's very good at doing the middle to. the middle. It's not good at knowing. what to do in the very first instance or. knowing when to stop and how to take it. to market. So, the the entrepreneur's. job is to do step one and two, let AI do. steps three to eight, and then do steps. nine and 10, and to basically have a coherent, cohesive view as to what you're trying.

to get the AI to create. >> Theoretically though, I could I could. ask an AI agent to think about the goal. that would benefit me the most and make. as many AI agents as it needs to to. fulfill that goal. And then it would. make start one business and then it. would start another business. >> Start lots of different businesses. >> Start another business, build another. website, contact a supplier. >> I think what you're into here is two or. three steps ahead of yourself where. you know, all of this is theoretically. possible, but we haven't seen those kind. of examples happening yet, right? We. haven't seen whether. that will ultimately unfold. I'm not. saying it won't. I think we are moving.

into a completely new economy. Like like. when you lived in the agricultural age, it was completely like unbelievable to. you what the industrial age would have. looked like. Like it's beyond all. comprehension if you had an agricultural. age mindset to imagine factory. production or coal production. >> And the thing the principle there that. allows you to see what the future might. look like when it's exponential and not. linear is imagining any rate of. improvement. And so this is how I think. always in my business is when I'm. thinking about which bet to make, I.

imagine if there's just 5% rate of. improvement per quarter, eventually this happens. >> Mhm. >> And so with. some things we've done on the show, we. started two years ago and for the first. 18 months it didn't work. And then six. months ago it exploded because. eventually the rate of improvement got. to the point where it was viable. >> Yeah. >> And now it's the single most important. disruptive thing we've ever done. And I think about what I the example I. just gave there of agents. I'm like, if. you just imagine any rate of. improvement, just imagine 1% a year. And. it obviously is way more than that, but.

imagine 1% a month. Eventually we get to. a point where a team of agents. >> If nothing disrupts it, one thing that. is very likely to happen. in the next three years is the whole. thing comes crashing down. It doesn't financially to make any sense. to build the data centers that we're. building. >> But you're not saying that AI is going. to disappear. >> itself is remarkable, but the financial model just makes no. sense whatsoever at the moment. >> At the moment, which is kind of typical. of boom bubbles, right? >> So, over the last 180 years, there have.

been infrastructure build-outs that have. bankrupted the economy consistently. again and again and again. In fact, there's a pattern. Whenever we spend more than 3% of the. overall GDP of the economy on an. infrastructure build-out, it bankrupts. the economy briefly for 10 years, right? So, this happened when we did railway. tracks. In fact, it happened twice in. the UK and twice in um the USA. Then, we. bankrupt ourselves putting the. electrification grid in place. We. bankrupted ourselves putting uh highways. in place. Now, there's something that.

makes this worse than ever before. And that is that when we built train. tracks, they lasted for 100 years. When. we built roads, they lasted 50 plus. years. The telecommunications uh. fiber optics, 30 years. All of these. investments were multi-decade. investments that we could get benefit. from and and and leverage for decades. Data centers last 3 to 4 years before. they need to be replaced. So, we are building something that has a. 3 to 4-year life cycle that costs.

hundreds of billions, and it has to be replaced every few. years. And there is no financial model. attached to this that justifies it at. all. So, one thing that I'm. predicting is that in 2029, 100 years. after the Great Depression, we will see a a massive financial. meltdown based off the back of these. data centers that have been um developed. at the moment. >> And for someone that doesn't know what a. data center is? >> So, it's like a big Walmart or an. airport filled with computers, and those computers are running AI.

Right? So, every time you go on AI, you're actually you know, your request. is going off to a big computer in a. Walmart-sized building somewhere, but. those GPUs, those uh computer stacks, those big ginormous computers, they are. like iPhones. They last about 3 years. before they get superseded. This year. ahead, we're going to spend 650 billion. 650 billion sounds like so abstract. It's the equivalent of giving every. single person in America an iPhone Pro. with AirPods.

But here's the crazy thing. 95% of. people who have been given the the free. iPhone. are not willing to pay for it. And the tiny number of people who are. willing to pay for it, they're only. willing to pay $20 a month, most of. them. So, this $20 a month, everyone's. getting a free iPhone effectively, and. then a small 5% of people are willing to. pay $20 a month. The numbers are just. astronomically out of balance. >> The numbers are astronomically out of. balance. So, what happens next? You're. predicting in 2029 there's a financial.

crash. >> There's not a 0% chance that the. financial model around what the what. we've launched with AI. is catastrophic. It's a huge financial. problem that very few people are talking. about. >> So, let's talk about in a world of AI, what are the. skills. that survive? And like what what are the. professions that you believe survive? If. you've got children, Daniel, when when they come to you and they say, "Dad, um I'm hearing about all this AI. stuff and I've seen these robots in. China doing backflips, what should I be learning now to make.

sure that the next 20, 30, 40 years of. my career is prosperous?". >> It's the entrepreneurial skill set that. is the most important skill set. It is. essentially the skills of identifying an. opportunity, prototyping fast and cheap experiments. to see if you've got something that. people want, taking it to market, making your initial. sales, scaling up to your addressable. market, and then exiting, and then. coming up with a new idea. Because even. if you're in a big corporate, they're. going to want to prototype things,

they're going to want to spin out new. products, they're going to want to come. up with new initiatives, and we need to. step through that process of is this a. good idea or not? Can we validate it? Can we scale it? Right? And you want to. go through that process as fast and as. cheap as possible the way an. entrepreneur would. >> And on that first point of identifying a. good idea, now, is there any way to know if the. idea that I have is a good idea or a bad. idea? >> Yeah, this is a step that entrepreneurs. call validation. And the rookie. entrepreneurs that fail, they don't do.

this step very well, right? So, they. don't do market validation. They don't. do product validation. They simply get. excited about an idea and then they go. all in on the idea. And what really. experienced entrepreneurs do is that we. come up with ways to do fast cheap. experiments. So, for example, last year. I had two ideas and I I actually kind of. liked one a lot and I liked one a little. bit. And what I did is I set up a. waiting list campaign and I basically. invited people to join the waiting list.

for idea number one. And about 750 people joined that waiting. list and they filled in a set set of. questions so that I knew that 750 people. were interested in this idea. This was. my favorite idea. And then the second idea, I invited. people to join that waiting list. and 4 and 1/2 thousand people joined. that waiting list. [laughter] So, even. though this wasn't my favorite idea, it. was way more exciting for people and. it was sitting on top of a much bigger. need. So, off the back of collecting 4. and 1/2 thousand people on the waiting.

list and collecting all the data and the. information, we went to some angel. investors about a week later after doing. that and we raised quarter of a million. pounds, so about 3 or 400,000 dollars. And all of that took about a week or. two. >> With that example, how do you know that. the business itself. and the delivery of that idea actually. meets their expectation? Because I can. think of multiple examples where someone. clicked on an idea that I had, but. actually the delivery of that idea fell.

short of expectation. Because sometimes. things can sound good when you you see. the flyer or the poster or the advert, but the reality of the experience is. actually not that great. >> So let me walk you through the six steps. quickly. Step one is called founder. opportunity fit. And founder opportunity fit is finding. something that you want to do. Step two. is validation, right? So this is where. we actually try and see, is there a. market? Could we could we build. something? Could we sell something? Right? So that's two validation, can we. build it? Can we sell it? Step three is. called product market fit. And this is.

the next step where you're actually. trying to figure out, can we actually. make this live up to people's. expectations so that they really like. it? Is there a group of people who buy. this and they're happy with the. purchase? And we want to do that. carefully and cheaply. And then finally, once people say oh or. the next step, once people say yes, we. can do that, we go to market, and go to. market is making sales. And then after going to market, we scale. up, right? Step five. And then the final. step is we exit. So we go through those. six steps, and we call that a value.

creation loop. And that value creation. loop goes through those six steps, and. each step has its own little job, and. what we're trying to do is just. validate, go to the next step. Achieve the milestones, go to the next. step. And and that's how we do it as. entrepreneurs. >> So in a world of AI, are there any. particular opportunities that you think. are um. new and exciting that anybody listening. right now could pursue to make money, whether it's passive income on the side, or to leave their current role and. pursue entrepreneurship for?

>> Well, the starting point is that. everything is an opportunity. Because. what do entrepreneurs do? We find things that could be done. better, faster, cheaper, or with more. emotional benefits. >> But has AI created any particular. interesting opportunities in your view. that you think that's a a huge arbitrage. opportunity? >> one of the best opportunities is a small. SaaS company. So software as a service. was an elite-level business opportunity. that very, very few people could enter. That was something that only maybe tens. of thousands or hundreds of thousands of. founders at most globally could have a.

software company. So, it was very very. elite. And the reason it was elite is. because it was very very hard to. mobilize the talent required to build a. software company. You probably needed, you know, maybe 10, 20, or 30. developers to build a software product. that would actually be a good software. product. You needed to raise millions of. dollars to get through the costs of. developing software companies. And you probably needed 10,000 customers. to have a break-even software company. Now, because of AI, all of those costs.

have massively come down. And there are. software companies that are wildly. profitable that have 500 customers or. 1,000 customers. They service a tiny. little niche. They attach a community. and some media and some training to. those little software niches. So, one of. the most exciting things is that if you. essentially said. that I would like to take what I know, turn it into a playbook, take that. playbook, ask AI to advise me on what. software we could create, and then use. AI tools to build out that software,

you're able to get very deep into that. journey for almost no money. >> I was thinking about this the other day. because in my company we're rebuilding. our entire ATS ourselves. So, an ATS is basically the system you. use when you recruit people. Everyone's. name goes into the ATS. It's kind of. like a. uh like a search engine. Yeah, like a. database of where candidates who have. applied for your company currently are. And over the last couple of years I've. paid tens of thousands of dollars every. year for an ATS for my companies. And. this year I thought, you know what,

actually I reckon we could build an ATS. in a couple of weeks ourselves. And it. could be bespoke to us. So, we started. that project. I saw the the first. version of it yesterday. We started a. week ago. And the first version the the. the version of it I saw was like, "Oh, this is significantly better than what. we were using before because it's. bespoke." And this made me think about. the the opportunity of creating software. generally, which is that in a world. where it becomes, as you say, like. cheaper, easier, faster, we're all going. to be using more software, but we're probably not going to be. paying. other people.

for their software, especially when it's. these kind of tools, productivity tools. and systems. >> purely a tool, it's very easy to. replicate. But, if it's a tool that. comes with a community, if it comes with. education and training, if it comes with. agents that. >> Education and training? >> Yeah, so like for example, if you were. to do an ATS, right? An applicant. tracking system or a hiring tool, and. you had the Doac. system and method that I can go and. attend the training as to how you. onboard people, how you create culture,

how you do things at Doac, I'm now. interested in the software because it. comes with that exciting training. If. there was also a boot camp that I could. go to that was attached to that product. If there was also an annual retreat or a. dinner series. If there was also some. funding opportunities that came with. that. So, once upon a time, you were. just simply going to focus on creating a. software tool because that was so labor. intensive, and also it had a natural. moat or protection around it that you. didn't have to get creative. But, now we.

live in a world where the AI lets you to. build the product pretty quickly. It. helps you to do all these other things. that we talked about. And suddenly it's actually a quite a a. fun product that you that you can spin. up. What you've already created would. have probably cost 500,000 and 6 months. >> Oh my god, 6 months, I wish. >> that long ago. >> Yeah, it would probably cost it would. have probably taken about 18 months. total end-to-end. >> And you've done it in a week. >> Yeah. And so, everyone else can do it in a. week. And in fact, if anyone if that's.

anyone's business right now, there's. going to be a thousand new ATS systems a. day. One's going to trend on Twitter. You know, people are going to download. that one, then they're going to jump. ship because a new one emerges and it's. better, it's more genetic, whatever. And. so again, I think are we seeing software. generally become a commodity? >> What we're going to see is we're going. to see all business opportunities be. like YouTube content. I mean, if I went. back 25, 30 years ago and said there's. going to be 10 person unfunded little TV. studios that produce content every. single week for almost no money,

you you would think that's crazy. I. mean, Seinfeld used to cost 5 million an. episode. Um. The Simpsons and Friends, these were all. multi-million dollars per episode. And we've now replicated that that can. be done. like by a tiny little team for free. every week. >> It's interesting cuz the minute we say. that the answer is to do these things. that are easy and free and cheap to do, it's almost like we we then don't. acknowledge the fact that if everyone's. doing it, it's no longer a valuable. thing to do. >> It's less valuable.

>> Yeah, as it becomes easier, the other. access is the decline in the value. So, we're saying we're saying to people, "Go. be a content creator." But, the very. fact that they can without needing a. CNN-size skyscraper production equipment. also means everybody can, which means. that that that actually is losing value. at the same rate that it's becoming. easy, theoretically. And And so, what I. continually think about from first. principles is what is it that I can bet. on that is irreplaceably human, which. only I can do and a kid in Mumbai cannot.

do. And so, when we say software, I go. kid in Mumbai. And then we say content, I go kid in Mumbai. >> Well, uh physical experiences in the. world real world. So, standing on a stage and telling your. story is something I mean, you already. see that thousands of people show up to. see this and to be part of to be in a. room with other people who are sharing. an experience. See, the thing that the. AI version of you can't do is turn up to. an event. >> I agree. So, I I say what I say because I genuinely.

want to be challenged here. I I'm I sit. here with these AI experts and CEOs. because I genuinely I hope that they say. something that. tilts the current belief that I have and. like makes me go, ah, actually, you. know, that's a good point. I'm in search. of good points on the subject matter. So, when I said what I just said about. content software becoming increasingly. commoditized and because it's becoming. commoditized, we're like tempting people. to go do more of it without. acknowledging the fact that the very. fact that people are doing more of it. means it's less valuable. and it's more of a commodity and.

>> What I'm saying though is that these. things have to go together. So, simply. like anyone who's doing real-world. experiences, I think you what's going to. happen is you'll go to a conference and. that conference will come with custom. software that lasts two or three weeks. that is really, really interesting and. it relates to that conference and that. software was created as a SAS product. for the attendees of that conference and. it kind of pops into existence very. briefly. These things used to be. separate and now they all cluster. together, right? So, it's a buffet of. things that you all put together.

If we take most successful businesses. now, they do social media. That used to. be a standalone business. It was crazy. to think that a hair salon could also be. a media business. I've met with tens of. thousands of entrepreneurs and the. number of people who want to go big is. tiny. It's a fraction of the. entrepreneurial community. What most. people want is a business that provides. an amazing lifestyle. They want to live. and work from anywhere. They want to be. able to travel. They want to do three or. four days a week. They want to drop. their kids off at school. They want to.

uh do non-monotonous, interesting work. that is a little chaotic, a little. creative, a little bit fun, a little bit. challenging. They want to work with a. small group of people that they get to. know and enjoy and travel through life. together. And those are the types of things that. the majority of people actually want. Very few people actually want big. So, one thing that I'm noticing is that it's. probably harder than ever to build a big. business, but it's easier than ever to. build a small, successful business. So,

if we were to say that a business that. does 1 to 5 million of revenue with a. team of 10 people, that is like totally. like super. possible. But once you go beyond that, it's becoming harder and harder because. you get disrupted more frequently. So. you have to be an elite athlete of. entrepreneurs to withstand the constant. disruption and and. the the constant change that's coming. So because your natural mindset is to. think really really big, you're probably missing.

that for many people who are working in. a annoying corporate environment and. their job is monotonous and they feel. tethered to a desk or they feel tethered. to a team that that doesn't really care. about them. You know, a lot of those people are. going to actually end up in small. dynamic little businesses that will. never be big, but they'll be great. They'll be fun. You know, and people you. know, have flexibility and they'll have. you know, great you know, great. opportunities as a result. >> I think you're right. I do have a bias. towards trying to find, you know, big.

opportunities. But actually, I think the. big blue ocean opportunity, which is for. anyone that doesn't know, I think of red. oceans from the the book called blue. ocean strategy, as very competitive. >> Hyper-competitive. >> horrible markets where it's like a race. to the bottom. You're all doing the same. thing like. you're all saying the same thing, doing. the same thing, and you all think that. your unique positioning is is unique, but it's actually not. The market. doesn't value any differently. Like a. wine company saying that their wine is a. year older or that using a fancy word on. the label. It's a red ocean, a.

bloodbath. A blue ocean is an. uncontested waters where you have room. to grow, much less competition, and. there is actually something fundamental. to your proposition, your business idea, the thing that the value you're giving. to the world that is unique. I'm looking. for blue oceans. And yes, I will try and build a big boat in the. blue ocean cuz that's my nature. But. also, life is easier when you sail in. blue oceans for everybody. Even if you. want a lifestyle business, I think one. of the great examples at the moment is. if you started a a marketing agency when.

I started one in 2014, especially a. social media agency, you were in the. blue ocean. >> You were, briefly. >> Briefly. And they say, you know, blue. oceans often last for 10 years. In 2024, my best friends, I'd say 70% of them run. marketing or brand agencies. >> Yeah. >> I'm having the same same therapy session. with them once a month at the moment. And if you look at the big five, big. four, big five agencies in the world, the WPPs, Martin Sorrell's business, they're all. >> They're all competing on the way their. margins and they're struggling, yeah. >> They're losing their profit, they're.

losing their market share. >> and AI and digital technology means that. this disruption cycle happens in months, not years anymore. So, you said a blue. ocean can last for years or decades, not. in the world of AI. In the world of AI, as soon as we've identified that you've. got a blue ocean, we can replicate that. real fast, and we can come and fly out. to your blue ocean with with an with. lots of competition. Here's something. that's interesting. Throughout all of history, whenever you. find societies that have low social. mobility and hyper competition, there's lots and lots of festivals. So,

you go into medieval times, they've got. a festival for every season, they've got. a festival for every life event, there's. just constant festivals. You go into. rural Africa, rural India, and it's. festivals, festivals, festivals, right? Weddings, funerals, seasonal festivals. It's a huge part of human culture that. we have lost in big cities. Like, we. don't do a lot of festival or rare it's. rare that we do a lot of festivals. These real-world experiences. But, I. don't necessarily think it's a blue. ocean because. uh as soon as people realize how much.

people want to do festivals and want to. do real-world experiences, a lot of companies can also add this to. the mix. I think what is defensible is. community, experience, and embracing the. constant chaotic change, and coming up. with new stuff all the time. >> One of the bets I'm making, and it goes. back to what I like again, reasoning up. from first principles, if the question is, what can I do that. an AI agent or AI could not do, and. especially in the context of what humans. will continue to need. >> Mhm.

>> When you were born down, you were born. with a bunch of needs. And those needs. like fundamentally haven't changed. One. of them is like connection. >> Mhm. >> I think you'll always be able to discern. what is real human connection from. artificial connection. I remember being. 16 years old and in my psychology class. at the back when they told me about the. rhesus monkeys experiment where they got. a rhesus monkey, this little small. little monkey. They pretended that its. mother was a wire mesh. So, they made a. wire mesh mother. The rhesus monkey. grows up to be a psychopath. because it's its fundamental human need. of connection is not met. They then did.

it with a a cloth and the rhesus monkey. grew up to be a bit more stable. And then obviously they show the. examples where the rhesus monkey. actually had a physical flesh. mother and it was it was fine. So, I say. this to illuminate the fact that we have. fundamental needs that if not met, there. will be consequences. One of ours is. connection. So, as a content creator, I. can sit here and I can tell you what. happened today. Right? I can say at 6:00. this guy broke into this bank and then. he left. I think that's a commodity now. >> Mhm. >> I think the thing that I can do as a.

podcaster, as a behind the scenes. content creator, as a streamer, >> Mhm. >> this is why I'm so bullish on streamers, is they're making irreplaceably human. content. There's no AI that can An AI. can tell you what men what happens in. menopause. An AI can't tell you its. experience of menopause. >> Yes, we need to find something that only. we can say as humans. And every single. person has this, by the way. But a lot. of us overlook what we can say as a. human. I recently came across a. financial planner and his name is Matt. Pitcher.

And he gave a TED Talk. And the TED Talk. is about what it was like for him to. meet. 100 people who'd won the lottery. So, he. had a partnership as a financial planner. with the British lottery and every week. someone wins the lottery and then he. goes in and meets them a week later. after they've discovered they've won the. lottery. >> Wow. >> But what he did did is he looked back at. his history and he had lots of different. things that he was doing, but he looked. back at his history and he connected. some dots and he said, "Hey, wait a. second, there's something that only I. can talk about. There's something that.

is that is my thing that I've. experienced that I lived through, that. I've sat in those living rooms, I've sat. eye-to-eye with those people and only I. can talk about that." And because of. that TED Talk, he's he's had half a. million views in the first few weeks and. you know, his business is obviously. going to explode and all of those kind. of things because he found something. that only he could say. I believe that every person has. something that's human that only they. can say that's highly relatable. You. shared with me an interesting philosophy. when we first met. I did my first. episode on Diary of a CEO and it got. millions of views.

And I said to you, "Why is it that my. episode got millions of views, but a few. weeks ago there was a billionaire CEO. who only got a few hundred thousand. views and a few weeks before that there. was a billionaire CEO who only got a few. hundred thousand views." And you said, "Daniel, relatable beats impressive.". >> Yeah. >> And a lot of people think that they have. to cure a cancer or launch a rocket to. Mars or that they have to win a Nobel. Peace Prize or float a company on the. Nasdaq. And actually, each individual. person we have to discover what I would. call your personal intellectual property.

or your personal intellectual capital. And your personal story, your personal. playbooks, you know, your your triumphs. and your disasters, the things that. you've done that are interesting to a. certain group of people that you can. quantify, that you can describe, that. you can give me what it was like, those. are your personal playbooks. Now, once. you have personal playbooks, you have. the ability to turn that into all sorts. of products and services through AI. But. you but it starts with having personal. playbooks. >> I think this is the key mistake that a. lot of content creators are um making,

which is because it's easy to make stuff. now, well, it's tempting just to churn. stuff out. >> Yeah. >> Whereas I'm making less content. now in a world of AI. If you look at my. LinkedIn, I used to post. >> [laughter]. >> if you go back like three or four years, I was just churning stuff out, writing. quotes, pictures, Anything fluffy, like. just fluffy. >> Full of data. >> Yeah. >> Now I go, "What if everyone can do it?". The reason why my LinkedIn you'll see. almost every post I post now is a human. story about something I've gone through. You'll see photos of me, you'll see. photos of my family.

>> The same stuff that only you can say cuz. you lived it. Yeah. So, we all have to. find what is the thing that only you can. say. >> And. no robot, no AI could ever say that. because it hasn't lived that experience. >> Yeah, it's got all the data, it's got. all the knowledge, but it's got no lived. experience. And also, from a business. perspective, an AI can never stand on a. stage. An AI can never host a dinner. party. An AI can never meet someone. face-to-face and put their hand on their. shoulder and say, "Hey, I've been. through what you've been through and. you're going to be okay." Right? So, all.

of those things AI can't do. So, once. you discover something that only you can. say, it it becomes a superpower. >> I think my best performing post this. year was actually me proposing to my now. fiance. But. it's a prime prime example of something. that is irreplaceable human. >> Yeah. >> Just getting down on one one knee and. telling another human being that you. love them. There's no AI that is ever I. mean, listen. >> experienced it. >> Yeah, exactly. So, and there's something. so human about that. >> It's relatable. It's not impressive, it's relatable. >> Um from first principles, I ask myself.

which type of content am I making is. creating that the strongest parasocial. relationship with the person on the. other end. If I post on my LinkedIn, "Everything happens for a reason." Am I. How much have I moved the needle on our. our relationship, my relationship with. you? Probably zero. If I talk about. something more human, some struggles. that I'm having. from a human perspective, if I'm more. honest, authentic, and open, or. vulnerable about the experience I'm. going through. Like streamers who sit. there for 7 I almost said I think Did I.

say this last time that I I asked a. streamer a couple of questions? >> And I asked the streamer, like, "What do. you do?" And he's like, "Oh, nothing. I. just. >> there and stream. >> 7 hours, watch the duty with the. audience, and we chat." I say, "And this. is a prime example of parasocial." They. actually talk to you. They go, "Chat, let me know if you think X Y or Z. Chat, drop W's in the chat." That's a friend. >> It's what it is, isn't it? >> thing to a friend. It's the strongest. parasocial relationship. >> said about the football game where the. loudest cheers in the audience came for. those streamers who were just connecting. with people. >> They've built friendships, basically,

with their audience. So, of all I think. in a world of AI where just. informational content, which is this. thing happened or this is what the gut. microbiome is, is going to become. commoditized. The thing that isn't. commoditized is content that creates. relationships with audiences. And then, as you say, then converts that. relationship into stronger experiences. like IRL events and so on and so forth. I've got a couple more ideas that I. haven't fully shared with the world yet, but I'm just I'll wait for the right. time. about all of this stuff. >> So, it's not one piece that is adding.

the value. It's the ecosystem of pieces. So, it's having something to say that. only you can say. Let's call that your. personal playbooks. Let's call that your. personal intellectual property. It's. having the people or your community that. you're going through life with, right? Let's call that your ideal customers, your ideal personas, if you want to. click make it a clinical definition of. in marketing speak. That that gives rise to a personal. brand. When those two things touch, you. then end up with a personal brand, right? As if by magic, you end up with a. personal brand cuz you've got. intellectual property and you've got an. ideal customer who connects with that.

And then, you you are the person who. embodies it. So, you you give rise to. that. And then, the question is, well, how do you make money from that? Well, you productize it. Yeah, you create. products and services. And it's the product and service. ecosystem that makes money. It's not one. product or service. It used to be that. you could just have a a product or. service that you offer. And now, it's. the product and service ecosystem. The. people that I see making the most money. at the moment, they don't do one thing. You don't do one thing, right? So, if I. look at your personal P&L, you've probably got 27 different ways.

that money came and hit your bank. account last month. There's speaking, there's podcasting, there's AdSense. revenue, there's sponsors, there's. shareholdings in different companies. that you've got. There might be some one-to-one coaching. that you might have done. There might be. an appearance fee, there might be some. book royalties, there's multiple books. There might be some software that you've. launched. So, there's all this stuff. That sounds crazy and chaotic in a. pre-AI world, but in a post-AI world, it's not that hard to create all these. different products and services and to. be launching different things and to be.

going on a journey with people and. having a product and service ecosystem. I'm the same, by the way. I've probably. got 20 different things that. you know, that I'm involved in at any. given time. >> I was reading yesterday that the for the. first time I mean, I was reading a few. things. One of the interesting things I. read is that Spotify said their best. developers haven't written a line of. code since December, thanks to AI, which. again is a whole another conversation. Maybe we should touch on that. What are. the. occupations that you genuinely believe. won't exist 5 years from now as we know. them?

People say lawyers are going to be. disrupted. >> Well, well, I recently had a law legal. case that I had to resolve and it was. going to cost us £50,000, so $60,000. as I start the process with a law firm. We took matters into our own hands and. we used Claude and we actually fixed the. process and resolved the process by. spending 20 a month, $20 a month and. Claude gave us a coaching session on how. to handle it, gave us multiple decision. tree pathways, gave us the documents. that we would need, gave us an Excel.

spreadsheet of do say this, don't say. this in the negotiation. And it made me. realize, my goodness, what are lawyers. going to do because if all they do is. charge for time for money to regurgitate. contracts, I don't need that anymore, right? >> Multiple reports say legacy legal tech. and data firms have lost roughly 20% of. their value so far in 2026. >> 280 billion was wiped off the value of. publicly traded companies like that in. the last week. Like it's wild. Um, because we're not going to need.

that. I don't believe we're going to. need these business models as they. currently stand. I think they're going. to have to change and adapt. I think a. lawyer needs to take a completely. different shape, part business coach, part lawyer, part prompt engineer. They're going to be the key person of AI. in the room who the lawyer's job will be. to work with you on your AI prompting. and help you get the resolution. You're. probably going to need a lot less of a. lawyer's time. Blue-collar work has been devalued and. we've seen people who work with their. hands and people who turn up to your.

house and fix your house in a devalued. role. And it could be in the next, you. know, couple of years, these are the roles. that are elevated the most and that. plumbers regularly earn more than. lawyers simply because the nature of the. economy has changed. One thing I've. learned over the last 25 years is the. pendulum swings. Things that very few things stay the. same. There is always this swinging. pendulum and the swinging pendulum is. like, oh yeah, white-collar work behind. the screen is the high-value thing. Oh,

no, it's actually blue-collar work with. your hands. You talked about supply and. demand. We dis- the government disrupted the. natural way children go out and find. opportunities in the world by making. university loans come along. They said, oh, everyone can just take out a. university loan and go to university. In. fact, you must and you should go go to. university, get yourself in debt or else. you'll never get a job anywhere if you. don't do a university degree. And lots of young people who should have. been plumbers, electricians, and. concrete-ers, and bricklayers went off. and became a mas- got a master's degree.

in the mating habits of butterflies and, you know, some random degree that. doesn't have a job attached and they. ended up in 60, 70, 80,000 dollars worth. of debt to get this degree that no one. was asking for. That market distortion. means that we now don't have many. plumbers and electricians and the blue. ocean is now being a tradesperson. >> There's a phase a lot of companies here. where they're no longer doing the most. important thing, which is selling, and. they get really bogged down with admin. And it's often something that creeps up.

slowly and you don't really notice until. it's happened. Slowly momentum starts to. leak out. This happened to us, and our. sponsor Pipedrive was a fix I came. across 10 years ago. And ever since, my. teams across my different companies have. continued to use it. Pipedrive is a. simple but powerful sales CRM that gives. you the visibility on any deals in your. pipeline. It also automates a lot of the. tedious, repetitive, and time-consuming. parts of the sales process, which in. turn saves you so many hours every. single month, which means you can get. back to selling. Making that early. decision to switch to Pipedrive was a. real game-changer, and has kept the.

right things front of mind. My favorite. feature is Pipedrive's ability to sync. your CRM with multiple email inboxes, so. your entire team can work together from. one platform. And we aren't the only. ones benefiting. Over 100,000 companies. use Pipedrive to grow their business. So, if something I've said resonates, head over to pipedrive.com/ceo, where you can get a 30-day free trial. No credit card or payment required. >> Steve, what are you doing? >> Uh just making myself a delicious.

coffee. >> From the freezer? >> From the freezer? You've not heard about. Cometeer? >> No. >> Oh my gosh. This is going to change your. life. Couple of months ago, the founder of. this business called Matt sent a big. shipment of this coffee to our office in. London. What most people don't know is. that the processing of coffee takes out. a lot of the taste. So, what they do is. they flash freeze it at the optimal. moment when it's most tasty. And they. send you in the post the coffee in these. little frozen ice cubes. Now, Matt sent. a big shipment to my office. I moved it.

to the kitchen. I said to the team, knock yourselves out. And then I saw so. many messages in our Slack channel of. people going, "Oh my god, what the hell. is that? It's so delicious." All I have. to do is pop it out in the morning using. the little button on the back of this. thing. I pour my hot water in, and I mix. it, and that is done. You can get $30 off. your first order of Cometeer coffee if. you go to cometeer.com/steven. Try it and please Instagram DM me, LinkedIn me and let me know if you love.

it as much as I do. I was looking at the um. top 10 jobs according to AI that are. most likely to to be disrupted and it. said things like drivers with McKinsey. estimating 30% of them will be automated. by 2030, customer service representative. and call center reps, which I used to. be. >> Mhm, same. >> 50% head count reductions after AI. rollout according to some estimates come. up go up to about 80%. I actually saw a. tool on my timeline yesterday that is. real human voice indistinguishable from. humans that's just launched and is. causing a huge stir. So that they're.

thinking that will replace even more of. the customer service roles. I I did. speak to the CEO of Klarna. TLDR as he. said, we currently have 7,000 employees. We're going to be able to get down to. 3,000. He said after summer because of. um. AI and we'll be using our existing team. members that are in customer service. roles to do more sort of bespoke white. glove VIP. >> VIP stuff will go up in fact Jevons. paradox would suggest that a lot of the. dehumanizing repetitive work will go.

away. But actually, if there are AI bots. that are really good at setting. appointments for a VIP human person to. have a conversation, then that work will. go through the roof. Because one of the. reasons that people like right now most. companies wish they could have more VIP. conversations, but the appointment. setting they don't have a lot of the low. level appointment setting stuff. happening. And if the appointment. setting stuff, if the cost of that goes. to zero, then the the the the. affordability of the VIP level treatment.

um becomes. you know, becomes uh much more feasible. >> Retail cashiers, admin assistants, bookkeepers, and payroll clerks, sales. development reps, warehouse workers with. um Amazon and others reporting that. robots now assist or replace labor in a. roughly 40% of fulfillment tasks. And. that Boston Dynamics video, which I'll. put up on the screen, shows a humanoid. robot working in a factory. >> What's nice about some of this is that. many of the jobs here are jobs that a. lot of people don't actually like doing. They are repetitive and dehumanizing. They're late night, they're early.

mornings. So, potentially. provided there is a Jevons paradox that. something happens that's more fun, more. humanizing, more interesting, more VIP, more chaotic, and you know, all of that. sort of stuff, it could be a very. positive thing. >> Fast food workers um. >> I I used to be a fast food worker. >> So did I, in McDonald's. I think it was. 2 days. >> I did 2 years at McDonald's. >> Oh, really? Because this disruption is. happening at record speeds, where do all these people go? Because. you you know, even in examples, oh, they. could do AI labeling. They need to be.

upskilled and trained. And I worry that. the rate of disruption isn't going to. meet the rate of creation of new. opportunities. And I really do worry about this. Like, I think people wonder why I have these. conversations on this podcast over and. over again. My philosophy to talk having. conversations on this podcast is. basically I'll say to my team, I'll say, "Steve, do you want to have a. conversation about. you know, this particular subject, the. gut microbiome?" I'll say, "We've covered it.". Which basically means I'm no longer. curious. >> Yep. >> I have the answers. I know about the. trillions of gut micro and I know how. the gut brain access. Let's move on.

>> Yep. >> I keep having these conversations about. AI because I feel like I'm getting no. good answers. >> Okay, so here's what's interesting. There is something. which you have, which is this elite. mindset, which is how do I organize. society. so that everyone gets a job and everyone. does stuff, right? And this is this is. the trap that many people have fallen. into. And it's actually at the root. cause of socialism. So, the root of. socialism is that I know better than. everybody else, and I will come up with.

a way of running society so everyone. gets looked after. That's the top-down. mindset. The crazy mindset that actually works is. if we give people education and training. and we make opportunity transparent and. we actually let people know what's. actually happening in the market and we. give them price signal data, they will. self-organize and reorganize and they. will have a bottom-up revolution and. they'll find amazing interesting things. to do. The money is in the economy, right?

>> true? >> That's called capitalism. >> I know, but. >> Capitalism works. >> In the UK, let's take the UK as an. example cuz we're all just screaming at. each other about brown people. We're not. talking about the the real alien which. is like the fundamental economic. disruption of AI. >> Yeah. There's a report that came out. yesterday showing that unemployment in. the UK has hit. >> It's 25% up and youth unemployment has. grown by more than 25%. >> It's like 16.1% of people that are. between 16 and 24 are unemployed now. >> Yeah. >> And we're still not talking about the. the economy, we're talking about brown. people.

>> When people feel that they can't get. ahead, they look for somebody to blame. And this is historically consistent. What is really happening is that the. government has become so big in the. economy. The The UK government is now 45. to 50% of all spending in the UK. economy. That's essentially a socialist. or it's getting socialist. Every amount of government spend is a. market distortion. Regardless of what. it's for and I'm saying there are plenty. of things government should be spending. money on, but all government spending is. a market distortion. It's not market. driven and there is a monopoly on spend,

so therefore it is a market distortion. The more government spending you have, the more market distortions you have. >> What do you mean by market distortions? >> So, a market distortion is where the. markets are not really able to function. because there is some big organization. like the government spending money and. taking away price signals and taking. away the realities of the market. So, a. a great example is what happened with. student loans. So, rather than what in a. capitalist society, what would have. happened is that young people would have. heard, "Oh my goodness, there's a.

shortage of bricklayers. Have you heard. that bricklayers are making £300 a day? Wow, I would love to make £300 a day. I'm going to go be a bricklayer. I Guess. what? It's a bricklayer's apprentice. I'm going to go and be an apprentice. I'm going to get paid to learn this. trade and there would be a market-driven. pull towards being a bricklayer. A young person would get a job at a bank. and the bank would say, "Hey, couldn't. we please pay for you to do a finance. degree because we need more people. who've got a finance degree and we will. actually pay for you to go through.

that." So, that's a functioning market. It's basically based on needs and wants. and things that are needed within the. economy. What the government did is they. created a what's called a market. distortion. They said to all young. people, "We are going to give you as. much lending as you like to go out and. take whatever university courses you. want. There's no price data. There's no. signaling data. It's just you if you. want to borrow 50,000 pounds, you can go. to any course. If you're really. interested in the breeding habits of. butterflies, go and do a master's degree.

in that. And um. you know, happy days, right? You you. could It doesn't matter whether there. are jobs associated with it. You must go. and get a university degree. So, they. set up an entire system that pushed. young people to go get 50,000 pounds. worth of debt and do a degree that no. one was asking for. That's a market. distortion. We now have a bubble of over. 280 billion pounds worth of debt that. will probably never be repaid. We have. an entire generation of young people who. are saddled with this debt that takes.

away all motivation. There's no point in. working because they pay such high. taxes. Every single time they make a. payment to pay off their student loan, they they pay 600, but the debt goes up. by 650. Right? It's It's absolutely insane. And. that's a classic example of government's. meddling with the markets, creating a. market distortion and now we have. hundreds of billions of dollars worth of. people who are very angry, very upset. because they are trapped in a student. debt that will not go away for decades.

>> Rishi Sunak, the former Prime Minister. of the UK, wrote an article last week. which you might have seen where he said. that if the UK fails to fix its. productivity problems and seize the AI. opportunity, the country risks becoming. a tourist theme park. >> Yeah, and not even a good tourist theme. park. You know, there's there's. you know, there's not a lot, you know, at least a lot of other countries have. beaches and mountain ranges and ski. resorts and you know, the UK doesn't. have a lot of that. We have to let.

markets function. The issue that we. have, and this is this is actually a. trap that you're falling into, is trying. to figure out top-down how do we. organize society, which is socialism, right? The top-down approach of trying. to fix this problem for everybody is the. socialist mindset. And it does it. doesn't work, right? >> the Prime Minister. >> Yeah. >> and you you can see the future that's. coming, >> Yeah. >> what would you do? >> So, the number one thing the UK needs to. do is reduce government involvement, right? We need [clears throat] to get. the government spending down less than. 35%.

>> Where'd you cut? >> Right. So, the key thing that you need. is that you need Well, there's loads of. places to cut, right? Like getting. involved in trying to do wind farms and. solar farms and all of this 40 billion. and all this other stuff, preventing. companies from accessing natural gas. that is just sitting under our feet is a. crazy thing to do. Spending 20 billion. trying to give away one of our islands. to someone is a crazy thing to do. There's all sorts of crazy things that. the government is spending money on. Bureaucracy is a crazy spend. Do you. know that the Birmingham City Council,

they wanted to migrate from SAP to. Oracle. >> What's that? >> From a CRM system with SAP to a CRM. system with Oracle, a software system, right? So, they wanted to migrate from. one software system to another software. system. They thought that it would cost 19. million pounds, which in itself is a. very high amount to migrate from one. software to another software. It cost. 220 million pounds. >> So, you're saying that that you think. the government should just do less. stuff. >> They should be involved in less stuff. because what's happening right now. is that there is so.

much government spending that the. benefits for succeeding are being eroded. by taxation and people are just leaving. See, here's the thing. There's. with capitalism, the only benefit of. capitalism is the creative. entrepreneurial process, right? That. creative entrepreneurial process that. produces amazing companies and amazing. innovations and it creates stuff that is. better, faster, and cheaper for. everybody's lives. That comes from. capitalism. But if you take away the incentives for. doing that, you essentially don't have.

that happen within your country and then. as soon as you don't have that, you. don't have any economic growth. And then. as soon as you don't have any economic. growth, all you're left with is the. debt. And the debt erodes your economy and. kills your economy and you don't have. any growth to counterbalance the debt, so you enter a downward spiral. And that. is basically the same socialist scam. that happens over and over again. everywhere that it's tried. You're. essentially trying to get rid of the. worst elements of an economy, which is. cronyism and extraction, but that. happens under socialism. You just simply.

lose the one thing that doesn't happen. under socialism, which is the creative. process, the entrepreneurial process, the innovative process that creates new. value in the economy. So, what we've currently done in the UK, we've taken away all incentives. for people to be in the UK and to. succeed. I'm sure you know people. personally who are no longer in the UK. as tax residents, who should be in the. UK as tax residents. They like the UK. They enjoyed living in the UK, but what. happened? They left. You and I had a a debate with.

a guy a year ago and he said, "Oh, no, people are not going to leave the UK. We. can tax them as high as we possibly can. We can ramp up the taxes.". >> Gerry Stimpson? >> Yeah, Gerry Stimpson. And Gerry's. prediction was that rich people are not. going to leave and he also predicted. that the house prices are going to. explode and that we're going to have. these horrible house prices. What's. happened? Housing market has gone flat. because people are leaving. The economically active, producers, providers, they have left in their. droves and the economy is now in real. trouble. If you ask anyone who has left,

what do they tell you is the reason that. they left the UK? >> Well, it's one of two things. It's. generally I think they feel a sense of. pessimism about building their future in. a place that it that feels like it's on. managed decline to some people. And then the other cohort will say tax. reasons. >> High taxes and and it just feels like. you can't get ahead. >> And also the third I'd say is they they. think that talent is elsewhere. So they. think they have a better chance of. getting capital and talent employees if. they move to America or Dubai or. whatever else. >> Yep. And if you go to Dubai, low taxes.

And if you go to America, lower taxes. Um more opportunities. So we are living. in a time where, you know, a lot of. countries are exploring this socialism. thing and unfortunately it's a scam. But. even what's interesting is that even. your mindset is we need to fix this. top-down as opposed to fix it bottom-up. With AI, we need to give people price. data, price signals. >> What does that mean? >> It means that they need to be able to. see what's happening in in the economy. A young person needs to know that. someone's making a lot of profit. They. need to be able to see there is.

opportunities to do this, there's. opportunities to do that. They need to. also see, oh this is no longer an. opportunity. So this was great This was. a great opportunity 5 years ago but it's. not such a great opportunity now. A lot. of young people are going to discover, oh wait a second, I could get into house. renovations because a lot of houses need. renovating and they go, oh cool, I've. heard about someone who's making money. doing that. I'm going to go do that. So. that's just having access to price data. >> When I look back [snorts] over the last. couple of years data from Henley and. Partners in 2023, it says 3,200.

millionaires net left the UK. In 2024, 9,500 millionaires net left the UK. In. 2025, projected 16,500. millionaires are expected to leave the. UK which is a record outflow. And. [snorts] predictions that have not yet. been published warn that the trend is. likely to continue into 2026. When you think about this, like I guess. there's two questions which is, why does. this matter? >> Mhm. >> And then the next question is, what. should I do about it? On an individual.

level. >> Um so, why does it matter is because 1%. of people pay for 30% of the bills and. uh 10% of people pay 60% of the bills. So, if those people leave, then those. bills get passed on to everybody. We've. seen this here in New York. So, we're at. the moment we're in New York and this. socialist mayor, Mandani, has basically. just come out today and said we need to. put everybody's taxes up because we need. to spread the bills of the city across. all the residents um because people are. leaving, right? [laughter]. So, he wants to propose a 9.5% tax rise.

on all people uh who are who own homes. regardless of the value of those homes. So, essentially, when rich people leave, they leave behind a lot of bills that. everybody else has to pay that they were. previously paying. >> In his February 2026 preliminary budget, New York Mayor Sorohan Mandani proposed. a 9.5% property tax increase to address. a projected 5.4 billion budget. shortfall. This proposal acts as a last. resort alternative to his preferred.

plan, which was increasing taxes on top. earners and corporations to fill the. revenue gap. Hm. >> He [clears throat] promised free stuff. and he promised that everything was. going to be paid for for free. Nothing is free. Someone has to pay for. everything. If the rich people leave, there is not people who can pay for all. the free stuff and that's what New York. is suddenly discovering. So, why does it matter? Because rich. people essentially create the growth. They are the high tax payers. Whichever way you want to say it or. discover or discuss it, it is a small.

group of people who pay a lot of the. taxes. You don't want those people to. leave the economy. What do you do about. it? The number one thing to do about it. is you need to identify the the. that's right for you. That's called. founder opportunity fit. What you're. looking for is an opportunity. where you can earn money no matter where. you are in the world. If you're. somewhere that you don't perhaps like. being for any reason, you can pick up. and move. Um so, the best kind of. businesses and the best kind of. opportunities at the moment are the ones. that are not geographically limited to a. particular city.

>> It says that in New York, personal tax. income remains pretty strong, but. business tax collections have started to. soften. Recent reports show they are. roughly $378 million lower than. initially projected as business. formation slows down in New York. >> Yeah. It's the same story. We've seen. this. over and over again. Um socialism is. like a hot stove that every generation. has to touch for themselves. That essentially every generation of. young people, they think they've. discovered something new. They think, "Oh my goodness, what if we just go to. the rich people and take it off them and.

give it to everybody else, and we'll. redistribute the wealth?" And even. though it's been tried for 180 years. since uh Karl Marx came along, uh it. just doesn't work. It it it is a. disaster, and it ruins economies over. and over and over again. And trying to. offer lots and lots of free incentives. without any productivity gains is a. downward spiral. >> What's your bear case for the future of. AI? >> Well, the bear case is that we have. something called the Engels' pause. The. Engels' pause is what happened in the. industrial age, where for 50 years all.

the wealth went to the top uh because of. the new technology of the. industrialization. When we went from. agriculture to industrial age, that new. technology displaced so many people that. there were revolutions off the back of. it. >> I mean, this is going to be even faster. and more disruptive. >> Yeah, it's very disruptive. Yeah. >> I said this once before in a. conversation I had about AI, but I went. to my friend's accelerator in San. Francisco, which used to be a software accelerator. And when I walked in there and went. around, he has, you know, so hundreds of. entrepreneurs in there building stuff. I. was like, "Why is everyone building.

robots?" He was like, "Oh, because" and. he showed me this I said this on a. couple of episodes ago showed me this. frying pan, which had an arm of arm. attached to He's like, "I could cook you. your dinner for you.". >> Yeah. >> And I And he was like, "So, 10 years. ago, the. expensive thing wasn't actually the. robotic arm." He's like, "All these. pieces, all these They've been around. for for decades." He goes, "The. expensive thing was the intelligence.". He goes, "Now it costs cents. Back then, it would have cost me tens of thousands. to to build by the intelli- intelligence. that would know how to make your omelet. for you." So, he goes, "What you're.

seeing now is we're actually in the the. Renaissance age of robotics.". >> Yeah. >> And I looked around and I was like, "Oh, there's What's that machine over there?". He goes, "That makes your perfume for. you in the morning.". >> Yeah. >> You tell it how you want to smell today, it mixes It has all the scents loaded. in, and it'll make you And you can see. the making of the. >> Well, everything that is currently got a. Bluetooth in it will have intelligence. in it. So, your toothbrush will tell you. whether you've brushed your teeth well. enough and book it It'll probably be the. thing that books an appointment for your. dentist uh and all that sort of stuff. >> I'll go even further. I'd say even. things that don't, like my bed sheet. My. bed sheets, my pillows, my mattresses.

>> And they they will all have access to. agents and all that sort of stuff. My. bear case for AI is not about the. intelligence side of things. I generally. believe that more intelligence means a. better society. Um there's never been a. situation where lots of intelligence was. a bad thing. Um so, I think intelligence. has a pretty strong bull case to it. But, financial bubbles are a real thing, and I've lived through a couple of them, and what I've discovered is that they. have widespread massive impacts on all. sorts of areas of society that you. wouldn't even expect. And my real bear.

case for AI is that we over-invest in. these data centers, we cause a massive. financial collapse, uh and that we wipe. out pension funds. I don't know if you. know this, but they're packaging up the. debt for these financial uh assets, and. they're selling that to um pension funds. as private credit. So, all of these huge. data centers, what they're doing is. paying 6% above inflation as a. packaged-up debt. They send it over. Now, when they go to the pension funds, they say, "Oh, this is backed by Google. and backed by Microsoft and backed by uh.

Amazon.". And then they say, oh, you you know, it's a 6%. financial instrument backed by these. huge companies. But unfortunately, the. mathematics of spending 600 billion a. year on something that only has a three. or four-year lifespan, every single time in the last 180 years. that we've spent more than 3% of our. economy on an infrastructure build out, we've ended up with either a massive. recession or a depression. >> Did you hear the Anthropic CEO? For. anyone that doesn't know, Anthropic is. one of the large AI companies.

>> Claude. >> Yeah, they're they're the maker of. Claude. Did you hear what he was saying. the other day in the article he wrote. about his concerns? >> Yeah, yeah, I I saw at Davos. >> Yeah, he wrote it just after he left. Davos. Um, Daria Amodei? >> Yeah. >> He said, humanity is about to be handed. almost unimaginable power, and it is. deeply unclear whether our social, political, and technological systems. possess the maturity to wield it. I. believe we are entering a right of. passage, both turbulent and inevitable,

which will test who we are as a species. We are considerably closer to real. danger in 2026 than we were in 2023. If the exponential continues, which is. not certain, but now has a decade-long. track record supporting it, then it. cannot possibly be more than a few years. before AI is better than humans at. essentially. >> everything. >> everything. The same AI-enabled tools. that are necessary to fight autocracies. can.

be turned inward to create tyranny in. our own countries. There is an alarming. possibility of global totalitarian. dictatorship. AI is so powerful, such a glittering prize, that it is very. difficult for human civilization to. impose any restraints on it at all. And. he said this remarkable thing about in. that essay about imagining if there was. an island with 50,000. >> of geniuses on it. >> A billion.

>> geniuses on it. >> Yeah. What would happen to society? And. I think there's I don't know. Like, you. know what? I hope I'm really wrong about. this, but when I think about this idea. that there's 50 million geniuses on this. brand new island, and I ask myself. >> to work for free. >> Willing to work for free. When one. learns something, they all learn. something. >> You just take that as a first principle, you go, "Hmm, society [clears throat] is. going to be very, very, very, very. different." And maybe all of the advice. we've been giving for the last 5 10. years about how to be successful, how to. be an entrepreneur, how to succeed in.

business, >> It's for an economy that no longer. exists. Yeah, we're we're going through. we're going from a fundamental. industrial age economy to an AI age. economy, right? That is that is. different. We will have different. economic models. We also have a problem. of aging. For all of human history, we've had a small number of old people. at the top and a lot of young people at. the bottom, and we now have 65% of all. wealth in the economy is held by people. over 65. And then you've got the. financialized economy and the government. economy, which is inflationary. And that.

they pump money in as stimulus. So, while the entrepreneurs are making. everything cheaper, even free, the governments are actually inflating. the economy and the financial system is. inflating the economy slightly faster. than productivity gains, right? So, what's happening is the entrepreneurs. bring down the cost of everything, and. the governments and the financial system. top it up with new stimulus. According. to the rules that the government runs. by, as AI creates huge deflationary impacts,

they can actually just inflate the. economy like unbelievably. They can pump. huge amounts of stimulus into the. economy. So, this whole idea of um. UBI, universal basic income, it actually. stacks up from a economic fundamentals. basics uh principles, uh where you can actually, provided. you're getting the productivity gains. where things are costing zero because of. AI, you can actually just pump money. into the economy and give give money. away for a period of time while we're. going through that transition.

Hopefully, that prevents massive. craziness from unfolding. And hopefully, as a result of having a huge amount of. intelligence, we find really interesting, fun ways to. structure society and do things. we're not necessarily leaving utopia. We. shouldn't necessarily be grieving the. loss of shitty jobs and grieving the. loss of dehumanizing, low connectivity jobs. We have ruined. the way that we pair bond, we've ruined.

the way that we do community, we've. ruined the way that families run, we've. got people working two jobs just to. survive. Like, that's not something to be. grieving the loss of. We need a new. system. Maybe AI is going to actually. give us the breathing room that we need. to actually create a system that gets us. back to a little bit towards the way. that humans have flourished. >> Are we going to go towards UBI? >> It seems like in the short term that. would have to be the case. >> So, Sam Altman's over here working to. build OpenAI, working 24 hours a day,

let's just say theoretically. Um we're. going to have to take some of his hard. work away. and give it to theoretically, we're. going to have to give it to someone who. is maybe not working. >> Yeah. >> And I mean Sam Altman, funnily enough, he actually backed a study called Open. Research in 2024 that looked at the. impact of UBI and it showed that. recipients who received UBI, which is. money basically given to them, worked. fewer hours and earned less money than. the control group. Instead of using the. freedom to find better jobs or improve. their education, many participants.

simply dropped off the workforce or. reduced their hours for leisure, resulting in a net decrease in household. income despite cash payments. >> Yeah. Humans want stuff to do. We need a. We need a meaningful struggle. We need. something that we that we're up to in. the world. And that is that is a very. difficult thing. The likely thing that I. think will probably happen is that these. data center investments will be so. catastrophic financially that. governments will have to bail them out. and then the governments will have to. own all the data and all the data. centers and then the tech companies will.

have to essentially pay royalties back. to the government over long periods of. time to manage this kind of. infrastructure build out. So you'll have. to have something where the government. actually owns the primary asset and that. is the thing that pays for the UBI. I. mean we're we're kind of theorizing and. just kind of. >> We're going to find out. >> We are going to find out. >> It's going to be on the internet. someday. >> The mathematics bend reality at about. 2029. Once you the financial engineering. required to make this thing work, you. need something like a 45 times growth in. the number of people paying for.

subscriptions and the number of. businesses like. take something that is over the last. 5 10 years, there's been a product that. has gone exponential which is a Zempic. and GLP-1 weight loss drugs. The amount of spend to build out and. satisfy that demand is actually. pretty minimal. Those companies spend. about 20% of their revenues building new. factories to produce new GLP drugs, right? So CAPEX is about 20% of revenue.

We're seeing with the AI stuff, CAPEX is. hundreds of percent of revenue. Right? So it is a financial feat that. we've never attempted before. >> I've had so many founders speak to me. and say, "Why didn't this particular ad. that I ran on this platform work for. me?" Maybe the copy wasn't good, the. creative wasn't strong, but usually the. problem is they're not having the right. conversation because that ad never. reached the right person. And if you're. in B2B marketing, that is much of the. game. And this is where LinkedIn ads. solves that problem for you. Their.

targeting is ridiculously specific. You. can target by job title, seniority, company size, industry, and even. someone's skill set. And their network. includes over a billion professionals. About 130 million of them are. decision-makers. So, when you use. LinkedIn ads, you're putting your brand. in front of the right people. And. LinkedIn ads also drive the highest B2B. return on ad spend across all ad. networks in my experience. If you want. to give them a try, head over to. linkedin.com/diary. And when you spend $250 on your first.

LinkedIn ads campaign, you'll get an. extra $250 credit from me for the next. one. That's linkedin.com/diary. Terms and conditions apply. We have finally caved in. So many of you. have asked us if we could bundle the. conversation cards with the 1% diary. For those of you that don't know, every. single time a guest sits here with me in. the chair, they leave a question in the. Diary of a CEO. And then I ask that. question to the next guest. We don't. release those questions in any. environment other than on these.

incredible conversation cards. These. have become a fantastic tool for people. in relationships, people in teams, in. big corporations, and also family. members to connect with each other. With. that, we also have the 1% diary, which. is this incredible tool to change habits. in your life. So many of you have asked. if it was possible to buy both at the. same time, especially people in big. companies. So, what we've done is we've. bundled them together, and you can buy. both at the same time. And if you want. to drive connection and instill habit. change in your company, head to the. diary.com to inquire, and our team will.

be in touch. Let's bring this back to back to. reality. The reality of the person. listening and the pressing questions. they have about all this stuff and what. they should do. Is there anything else. that you would give people that are. listening right now in terms of advice. to be able to weather the incoming. turbulence that the CEO of Anthropic. describes there? >> Yeah. Look, the things that I know are. good for people is I really believe that. everyone should build a little bit of a. personal brand. So, a personal brand.

means that two to 20,000 people know who. you are, they know what you do, they. know you what your experiences are like. They could approach you about an. opportunity that would be a good. opportunity. So, build a bit of a. personal brand. Don't be invisible in. this particular time because, you know, it is one of your assets, which is to. take some of your knowledge, some of. your playbooks, and to let people know. that that exists. So, I think build a. bit of a personal brand. Second one is. have a go at entrepreneurship, right?

Join an entrepreneurial team, do an. entrepreneurial side hustle, read some. entrepreneurial books, watch some. entrepreneurial. videos that are out there. Start the. process of thinking, "Okay, the school. system taught me to be a standardized. employee, a standardized labor. The school system wanted me to fit in. with an office or a factory, but. actually there's this whole other way of. creating value, which is. non-standardized, called. entrepreneurship. This is spotting. opportunities and coming up with. solutions to it." So, you know,

play around with the game, even if it's. a small game. Like, you might notice. that there are dirty cars on the street, and you might say, "You know what? I'm. going to go and knock on doors and wash. the cars and see if I can make a couple. hundred bucks in the day because I've. seen an opportunity, I've seen something. that's wrong, and I'm going to go and. have a go at fixing it.". >> A lot of founders are telling me, Mark. Cuban said the other day that one of the. great opportunities now is. catering for the gap between small. business owners that don't know how to. use AI and helping them learn how to use. AI. >> Yeah, huge, right? Join a join a join a. founder team and help them do that.

As I said as well, 65% of all the. businesses by valuation people over. [clears throat] 65 now. So, there is a. mathematical certainty that 2/3 of the. businesses that run the economy by. valuation have to change hands in the. next 10, 15, 20 years. So, this is a. massive business opportunity. Baby boomers want to get rid of their. businesses. They want to retire. Baby. boomers are willing to fund you to buy. their business if you present yourself. well, if you've got a little bit of a. personal brand. So, that's a that's a. huge opportunity. So, look into that.

You know, Cody Sanchez, a mutual friend. of ours, she talks to people all the. time about how to buy a baby boomer. business and and take it over and run. it. So, um, you know, that's a that's a. great opportunity. Play with these toys. called AI tools. Someone has given you a. free iPhone, which you can just use. called AI tools, um, on the free. account. >> That is such good advice that we don't. hear enough. Because I think people. think there's where I am right now in my. life and what I do, and then there's.

like Sam Altman and Elon Musk. And I can. either I'm one of the other. But. actually, what I'm seeing as an employer who's. employing we probably employ I'd say 20. people a month at the current rate. We're hiring 20 more people a month is. increasingly on our culture test when. we're screening who the right candidates. are, we're looking for some kind of. evidence that they're playing or messing. around with AI. >> Yeah. >> One of my team members. is she was trying to figure out how to. get. 100 different documents.

to synthesize and understand the data. within these documents. Now, there's two types of people I can. hire to do that. There's the. old-fashioned way of doing that, where. someone might sit there for four or five. weeks and try to figure out how to get. an Excel document to have the right. formulas. And then there's her, who we. hired. Even though she doesn't have skills in. that particular thing, she has no. experience in it. But because of her mindset and her. agency, she went, "Hmm, >> [clears throat]. >> maybe I could put this into Claude. co-work and ask except an agent to write.

this for me.". >> By the time dessert came, she pulled her laptop over to me and. showed it to me, and she goes, "Steven, I ran all those hundreds of documents, um, into this file, and I can see the. sentiment on every single post you've. made on every single social platform, including every LinkedIn post you've. made over the last couple of years, and. we can see that actually, even though. these posts get more likes, these ones. are actually the best posts you're. doing.". She did that by dessert. >> Yeah. >> The And I thought there and I "Ah, isn't. that interesting? How do you find people. who have that bias in the modern world.

where they lean into change?". >> She's got curiosity, isn't it? >> Yeah. It's curiosity, but there's also. something which is like I'm being fluid. about your identity and what you know. >> Yes. >> Which is she has no experience in that. >> But I can try. >> I can try. >> And the one thing for anyone watching or. listening is that don't use AI as a. search tool. Don't use it the way you. used it a year ago. Give AI your hardest problem. And say, "Hey, help me to solve this. problem." So, for example, you might. say, "I'm really struggling with these. areas of my life. Here's all the data.

Here's all the information. Here's the. PDF documents. Here's the, you know, the. the backstory. Help me solve this. Help. me write it. What kind of piece of. software might I be able to use to to to. build here?" I'll give you a real. example. One of our team members used AI. to analyze all the sales calls for the. last 3 months and discovered a huge. opportunity. What they discovered is. that 75% of all of our sales calls, the person who we're on the phone to. mentioned that their spouse was a. decision maker and that they needed to.

talk to their spouse and that decision. making, because it was a family business. and that there was either a spouse or a. family member. There was no point in our process where. we invited collaboration with other. family members. So, none of our sales. calls said, "Do you want to bring. someone along to the sales call?" Like, "Would you like to have someone do. that?". The AI analyzed it, discovered that. opportunity, wrote a script as to how to. invite people onto the call so that that. you get all decision makers on the call. And now our sales conversions are going. up dramatically. >> I think this is the.

the real bifurcation in terms of the. employment market of what we're seeing. is certain people have a a positive. relationship to disruption and. technology and change. They get excited. by it. Whereas the others fall into. cognitive dissonance where they they get. so concerned that it's going to take out. their business that they ostrich head in. the sand. >> Mhm. >> And then these these other people. have this an. figure out ability. I could say to a. certain team member of mine, here's a. big problem. and they would grab onto this big. problem and even though they have no. proficiency in data or technology or AI.

or claw, they will just they'll plug. away at it on a computer and they'll. figure it out and they'll use all. available tools, not their identity, what they learned in university or their. experience as the only tool in the. toolbox. >> That's the difference between employee. mindset and entrepreneur mindset. Entrepreneurs see problems as. opportunities. They get excited by. problems and they apply the. entrepreneurial process. and employees say, "Hey, wait a second. I was never trained for this. I was. never told uh how to do this. I was not. given the rule book for this. So,

therefore, I'll just ignore it. I'll. stay away from it." Because problems. it's not my problem. And this is the big. fundamental shift. We need to say, "Hey, problems are great. We want problems. and is this problem for me? How would I. test my assumptions? How would I build. something quickly and cheaply? How would. I then test that? How would they I then. scale that?" Right? And it's just those. kind of few steps that if you embrace. those entrepreneurial steps, then life. becomes great. >> I have a contrarian take that I think. writing is actually more important now.

than ever before. because writing is a proxy of. understanding. And in a world of AI, what I'm finding when I look at like my. innovation teams where breakthroughs are. coming from in my company, it's actually. someone had a really good question. >> Yes. >> So, they were like, "Could we. theoretically analyze all of our sales. calls using Claude to see if there's. something interesting in there?" Now, that starts with someone understanding. sales calls, understanding the tools. that allow you to analyze them. They. have lots of reference points. They. understand lots of um variant things. And that means they ask a really great.

question. So, for me, one of the ways. that I've been um they've been able to. understand more things is just to write. more often about them. >> Can I go one step further? >> And that is a process called pause, reflect, document. And pause, reflect, document, if you do it correctly, you go. into nature. away from noise and away from technology. and you take a pen and a paper. and you sit in nature on a bench and you. just pause and just let some boredom set. in. You reflect on what's going on. You.

try and zoom out to the bigger picture. You do some journaling and you do some. dot connecting where you say, "What are. some of the dots that have happened in. the last 5 years? What are some of the. bigger picture impacts that I've made? What are some of the problems that I've. struggled with? What if this was. possible? What if that was possible?". We live in this incredible fast-paced. world where the one thing that no one. allows themselves to do is to pause, reflect, document with a pen and paper. And those people who I know who are.

doing incredibly well are doing more and. more of this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Same. Same. See I mean, you're one. of them. You're a person who's I mean, look at this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That this is a lot of books. >> That's my head. >> But you tweet every day. You post every. day. You're constantly experiencing. something in the real world, writing it. down to develop your thinking which. Richard Feynman talks about the process. of understanding where you learn. something, condense it so an average. person can understand it, then you share. it with the world to collect feedback on. that thought. He said that's the like.

the fastest, best way to learn. >> Yeah. >> But actually in a world of AI where. ChatGPT can do all of that for me, we're. deferring our ability to sort of. condense, compress, and understand to an. AI cuz we think it's creating an. efficiency gain or a productivity gain. in the near term. Like maybe today's. email will will save you 30 seconds, but. the the tax you're paying I think is an. understanding. >> Mhm. >> And understanding is the is a proxy of. therefore, you know, writing great. questions. I find myself writing more. >> Mhm. >> I wrote a memo this I was up till 2:00.

a.m. last night writing a memo. >> Yeah. Which means you were you were up. late thinking. >> Yeah. >> You were thinking clearly and that was. what you were really doing. A great. question I want people to reflect on. I. want them to think about the last 5. years and ask the question, "When did I. do something special. that impacted a certain type of person? I can explain how I did it step-by-step. and how it felt, and it would be of interest to plenty of. people.". All right? And that question contains. what we talked about earlier, which is.

lived experience, feelings, playbooks, and connecting the dots looking. backwards and actually coming up with. some things that only I can do, things. that only I can say. So, that that. particular prompt, that particular. question to sit in nature and think. clearly and memo and and document and. write a memo about it. You know, I I see. so many people and you and I have done. this over the last couple of hours. We. think so much about the future and the. uncertainty of the future, but a lot of. value comes from just looking backwards. and connecting the dots and then. thinking, "What What is it that I now.

know that I want to take forward and add. value to others?". >> Sort of adjacent to that, but related is. another thing I think a lot about, which. is. trying to get more information and. experiences from. a wide set of reference points. Because. when I think about innovation generally, innovation is the connection of like two. ideas or thoughts or principles that. someone else hasn't put together. So, I. think about the like nonstick frying. pan. It was a guy who was fishing and.

was trying to make get a material so his. tackle, his fishing tackle, didn't stick. together. And his wife walked past, allegedly, and says, "I'd love some of. that stuff on our pans.". And that ends up selling tens and tens. of millions of nonstick pans. And even. the Even when you think about the. iPhone, that was a combination of a of. an internet device, >> Mhm. >> a music device, and a telecommunications. device. >> Yeah. >> put together, which you rarely found. those three things in one space. Three. different reference points. To achieve. that, someone would have had to. understand music, the internet, and. phones. And even Steve Jobs himself, his.

skill stack contains typography and. design, >> Typography. >> which is why why he was able to disrupt. Black Friday. >> into a calligraphy class at university. and loved calligraphy and he was the. first company to ever have fonts and. those fonts became a huge differentiator. on the first Mac and it was only because. he had like combined calligraphy with. with with computers. He created the font. idea. >> So maybe the future's owned by the wide. not the narrow in this regard. >> Definitely. Become more of a generalist,

become more curious and go out of your. comfort zones, right? The the industrial. age asked us to simply specialize and do. one thing over and over. The grandfather. of capitalism is guy called Adam Smith. and he said ultimately efficiency is. about doing one thing in the process. over and over and over. But he said it's. going to destroy the human spirit. He. actually wrote about the fact that that. destroys the human spirit having to just. twist this knob over and over. That. creates the most value in the economy. but it's horrible for you as a human. And what and he recognized that problem.

from the very beginning. What we've been. trained to do is just twist the knob, twist the knob, twist the knob, do the. same thing over and over. What we need. to relearn how to do is allow us to. become more human and say actually I'm. going to explore nature, I'm going to. explore this weird passion that I have. for. you know particular theater companies. and how they run. I'm going to go and. explore this thing about like. entrepreneur accelerators. You know I'm going to combine things. It's those rare combinations and you. need to trust your instincts that you're. actually pulling on a few threads and.

bringing them together. >> I. do that while still focusing on a job. etc. because I do this for a living. So I get to sit here, you know, someone walked in before you and they. were talking to me, you know, Alex. Honnold was talking to me in that chair. before you. That's why the little Taipei. statues behind us about you know then. you've talked to me today about this. then the next person will talk to me. about neuroscience and bringing a human. brain and that's allowed me to kind of. connect these interesting reference. points. What I'm saying here is you. don't need to like. quit your job and go and live in Peru to.

to to orchestrate your life in such a. way. I think you just need to be really. intentional about resisting the urge to. be a narrow person and to identify too. much with one's identity. And so when I left my former business, one of the chapters I wrote in my book. is how do I now resist all my labels? Because now I'm a social media CEO and. it's so tempting. >> Yeah. >> to gather around social media people, go. to social media parties, put it in my. bio, get social media opportunities and. just go further and further and further. down that narrow So that's why I went.

and worked in psychedelics and biotech. I worked in cancer biotech. I started to DJ. I started a podcast. called The Diary of a CEO. I tried to do. as many things as I possibly could to. remain wide. >> Yeah, and your [clears throat]. superpowers are extra superpowers when. you take them somewhere new. So if. you've got social media superpowers, within the social media bubble, everyone's got those superpowers. But if. you go and take them into a completely. new place, you discover that actually. what you what you learned over here. becomes a massive differentiator over.

here. >> Is there anything else the audience need. to know about the big opportunities you. see as we head into the future? >> We all want the future to be bright. We. all want the future to be amazing and we. love the idea of trying to improve the. world. One of the best ways to improve. the world is to improve your own. situation. Because the world is made up. of people who have their own situation. You know, when we try and fix every. problem on the planet, it feels. completely crushing and feels so much. weight on your shoulders. When you. actually say, "What's my opportunity?".

Like if I could if I improve the world. by building myself a really great. business that helps a few people, it. helps 500 clients do something and if. I'm actually out there adding value in. my unique way and I'm finding a way. through this AI weird adventure that. we're going on, that's actually helping. the world, right? So you're bringing. yourself forward, you're discovering. something. I really want people to. resist the trap of trying to fix. everyone and fix everything. Try and. figure out what is your opportunity, what is your way of adding value to.

others, what is your way of getting. paid, what is your way of doing creative. entrepreneurship, what's your. contribution to the world, and that is. actually a contribution. >> Is that. difficult to do? Because I think it assumes some level of. self-awareness that is not always. easy. >> If you find it difficult to do, find. someone who inspires you and see if you. can join their team. So, that's totally a valid way to live. as well, right? Just get onto a team. where someone's figuring this stuff out.

Um, you know, follow your inspiration, and sometimes your inspiration is to. start something, sometimes your. inspiration is to help propel something. forward. Being part of someone else's. team who does inspire you. Self-awareness is is a skill that we all. have to learn. We're all on a crash. course with reality. Every single one of. us is on a crash course with reality. >> There's a lot of narrative on on the. internet that everybody can live their. dream. You know. And I. wonder. whether every. it's good I wonder whether it's good. advice to tell everybody to like quit. their job and pursue their dream.

>> I believe that the new size of business. that makes the most sense is small and. dynamic and lean and is probably close. to 10 to 50 people. And that is the new size of company that. is really shaking things up and doing. stuff. In fact, it's probably two to 20. people. I think that being part of a. small, dynamic, vibrant, entrepreneurial. team is a great place for people to go. and have a look and explore. Does that. mean that everyone's suitable to quit. their job and go start something from.

scratch with a blank piece of paper? Probably not, right? That's that's a. particular role called the founder. Not. everyone's ready to be a founder. In the. same way, everyone could probably get a black belt. if they if they joined a martial arts. and stuck with it, but not everyone can. start as a black belt. That's not where. you start. >> Even in those numbers, so if we said. everyone's going to have, you know, a. team of 10 to 50, those numbers suggest that one in 50 or. one in 10 people are going to be a. founder. >> Possibly, a lot more people are going to. be founders. I really believe a lot more.

people are going to be founders. I also. don't think it's a wildly unnatural to. be a founder. If you go through all of. history, most people worked in little. family businesses. That was actually the. vast majority of people. But, you know, most businesses never got past 30. people. The our natural way of being is. in family groups and tribal groups and. little groups of less than 150 people. We've built up this idea that it to be a. founder means Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, or. something massive like that, and that. you're trying to build something that. changes the world. I've got so many. friends and clients who it's them, their.

assistant, and uh someone who's like. head of customer development, and. there's three or four of them, and. they're having a great time, and they're. doing 6-700 grand worth of revenue, and. they've got loads of flexibility. Everyone takes their kids to school. Everyone finishes up at 4 4:00 p.m. Um they can travel. They can live and. work anywhere. Um you know, that's. really cool. >> This is your most recent book, Lifestyle. Business Playbooks: How to Have Fun, Freedom, and Fulfillment with Your Own. Business. You've written a lot of books. You could. have written a book about anything.

What's this book about, and who is it. for? >> This book is about the times that we're. living in, right? So, what I'm trying to. do, I'm trying to give people some hope. There's such a negative narrative that. AI is going to wipe out everything, and. that technology is going to destroy. everything, and that, you know, all all. this negativity about the times that. we're in. I'm trying to create a counter. narrative that actually, more than any. other time in history, you could live. and work from anywhere. You could have a. group of 500 to a few thousand clients. all over the world. You could add value.

to people in a unique and interesting. way. You could have a career that's. based on randomness and creativity and. fun. And that there are some new rules. to play by. And that if you learn the. playbooks of entrepreneurship, and if. you learn the trends that are unfolding, that actually, it could work out really, really well for you. >> A lot of people want to, you know, they. want to side hustle, they want passive. income. What's your general perspective on the. reality of being able to generate. passive income and a side hustle? >> I think passive income reflects people's.

desire that they currently feel that. they're working really hard and they. hate work and they hate going to work. and that earning money is a horrible. thing and therefore they just wish it. would just kind of take care of itself. The truth is that when you discover what. I call a lifestyle business where you. work a reasonable amount of time and you. have a lot of fun with great people, you. don't necessarily. as if by magic the desire for passive. income just evaporates. You go, this is. this is better than passive income cuz. I'm on a creative journey and I'm making.

great money and I'm having a lot of fun. and I'm expressing myself. I think. passive income ultimately comes from. assets. It's not it's not passive. income, it's asset income. Um, you're either going to have to. create an asset which could be a. business that is a digital asset um, or. you make so much money in your lifestyle. business that you own traditional assets. like houses or stocks and shares and all. that sort of stuff. Um, but I'm not. really focusing people on the idea of. passive income. I'm focusing on the idea. of having a lifestyle business that. supports the way you want to live. anyway.

>> A lot of people would would want that. but they're scared, right? They're. scared that they have to quit their job. and I've got a mortgage to pay, I've got. kids, so it's easier said than done, Daniel. >> Yeah, so that that's why in the. playbooks, playbook one is called a side. hustle or an apprenticeship. So an. apprenticeship Let's say let's say you. currently earn $100,000 a year for uh, a. really big corporate but you know that's. not your future. An apprenticeship might. be that you join four boards for 20. 25,000 per each and you actually work. with some startups that are more.

entrepreneurial and you take a position. where you have four companies that are. paying 25 grand. So you still earn 100. grand a year but now you've got four. smaller startups that you're you're from. and they're learning from you and you're. learning from them. So, that's that's a. version of an apprenticeship. Um an. apprenticeship could also be that you go. from working for a big traditional. company to getting a job that pays. almost as much, but with a smaller, more. interesting business that you can learn. from a founder. A side hustle is where you do stuff on. the side, and it's open and shut. You.

build your entrepreneurial confidence. So, those are like starting points. And. then, after that, and these are not. designed to make a big leap financially. After that, we talk about a two-person. scout team scouting an opportunity. We. talk about a four-person fire-starting. team getting something started. We talk. about an eight-person core team running. a really cool little lifestyle business. So, it it it's not like people think. that they have to go from zero to 100 in. one jump. And it's like, "No, there are. little steps along the way that make.

this really easy.". >> I think it's really important with all. of this advice to like know your nature. and to know who you are. And kind of. honestly to like know what you want from. life, which a lot of people don't. And. they're handed what they want from life. from like scrolling on Instagram or. LinkedIn. >> Or school. >> I need to build a $5 billion AI company, etc. I think I've I've noticed with myself. that I started a business, I was really I was ambitious about the. goals for that business. And then, you know, I ran that business for some. time. I left that business when I was what, 20? Maybe 20 years old, went to work in. Silicon Valley as basically a.

consultant. >> Mhm. >> And that was okay for a time being. But then eventually I realized that. the money really doesn't matter It's. really about like doing it with people. you like. >> Yes. >> And and having a challenge. So, that. then led me back into the ambitious. building businesses. Did that for 6. years, built big big business around the. world. And then left that, and then I. went through a period where I guess I. was kind of a consultant freelance-y. type guy for a while. Again, fundamentally unfulfilling for me. >> Yep. >> Because going on a mission with a group.

of people, an audacious mission, really. regardless of what it is, that filled me. up. It was never really about the money. >> A lot of people discover this. A lot of. people discover that more is not better. Uh a lot of people discover that bigger. is not more fun. >> Do you know what else they discover? They discover that. their idea of independence and freedom. is also not what they thought. And this. is like a quite contrarian take, but. I have more responsibility now than I've. ever had. >> Yeah. >> I could choose less responsibility and. more freedom, and I'd be less satisfied. and less fulfilled in my life. >> Totally. Totally. Look at rich kids.

They've They've got everything taken. care of, and there's all this financial. resource around them, and there's. nothing for them to do. They live in a. constant state of depression. We love. responsibility. We love creative. tension. Uh we love being up to. something in the world. There's nothing. greater than being up to something, to. being on a mission. Especially with a. great group of people that you're. traveling through life with, that you're. on this rock with. Um and you find your. group of people that you want to be up. to something with, and you nurture, and. you solve, and you. get curious, and you run ideas past each.

other, and you voice note it 2:00 in the. morning. You know, that's that's where. the juice is. That's where the joy is. Um there's a chapter in there that says. know when enough is enough. And it says that a huge part of the. times that we're in is, you know, we. live in a time of endless scrolling. There's no queue that says you've been. scrolling long enough. You know, go to bed. And it's same with. business, that we think bigger would be. better. Having a big bigger business, another, you know, another product, another thing, another uh. million would make you happier. And the. truth is it's it's not the it's normally.

not the case. >> Well, what is the case though is that we. all need increasing levels of challenge, it seems to me. You know, this is why. crosswords get more difficult, and video. games get have levels, because they. realize through the studies that when. something becomes incrementally more. difficult, you drop into a flow state, and motivation increases. And if it. doesn't, [clears throat] then you lose. motivation. And so I think this is why. even in my life, like, I'm striving to. make things bigger and better, because. it's actually just a proxy of like, I. want to be challenged. >> Well, there's a couple of things. You. can either go really big with one thing,

and just be really, really focused or. you can have challenge across a. portfolio of interests. One thing that. is happening to your generation, if I. can be so bold cuz I'm just 15 years. older or whatever, is that. you've taken all the energy that. normally went into kids. and you're putting it into business, right? And the normal natural thing that. is meant to happen around this age is. that you're meant to struggle with a. business or struggle with a way of. providing and also struggle with raising.

kids and all that sort of stuff. So. there's this reservoir of creative. energy that is. meant to be divided amongst a few. projects. and I'm seeing a lot of people that that. misplaced maternalism or paternalism. goes into just one thing and then we're. expected expecting to get the joy and. the fulfillment that would normally come. back from family and we wonder why. that's missing. You know, it's like, "Oh, I'm pouring myself into the. creation of these companies and they're. proxies for kids." And it's like, "Why.

don't I feel this warmth back?" Cuz your. biology's not wired to receive warmth. back from something other than a kid. So. this is happening because we're not. having we're not having kids. So one of. the things that. uh well, one of the things I encourage. everyone to do is have kids cuz it's. best thing ever. and to have a portfolio of interests. that you don't have to struggle to get. to a billion. You could say, "You know. what? The business bucket's full at 3. million and I'm really really happy with. a revenue of 3 million and a team of 10. and now I want to have a portfolio of.

interests that includes health and. fitness or travel or teaching at a local. uh you know, youth group. You know, or I. want to play a bigger role in my. church." Like there's all these other. things that you say, "Okay, these are. the portfolio of interests that that are. are more human.". >> Lifestyle Business Playbook. Going to. link this book below for anyone that. wants to give it a read who is compelled. by the lifestyle that Dan has described. there where you can have fun, freedom, and fulfillment with your own business. As you know, Daniel, cuz this is I think.

is your seventh time. being on this podcast, record breaker. We have a closing tradition. The question that has been left for you. is what fear have you overcome to become. who you are today? >> You know, I grew up on the Sunshine. Coast. Uh. I dropped out of school or or I dropped. out of university. I've got zero. qualifications. Um. I'm not particularly good at anything in. particular. I've got no skills.

Yeah, there's me at 21. I tell you, this. was a huge fear. Running my first ad in. the newspaper, I put everything on a. credit card just to run an ad in the. newspaper for $8,000, and it had to work. or else I was in serious trouble. I've. had a weird. 25 years. I've boom busted over and over. again. Um so, I had a. massive boom in my early 20s, built a. $10 million company rapidly, and then. lost it, and then I built another. multi-million dollar business, and then. lost it, and then I got wiped out by uh.

a COVID experience and had to reinvent. the business, and then I had a negative. experience with a co-founder and had to. reinvent the team. So, I've had these. kind of like huge for for the first 15. years it was boom bust boom bust boom. bust. And the fear was is that it would. never feel a sense of fulfillment. I'd. never get to a place where I I could. actually say it was all worth it. Um and to just keep going and going and. going when I felt exhausted uh was a. massive thing. >> And you have a family? >> Yeah, and the fear of will I be able to.

provide for the family, and the fear of. uh will my business ideas be valued by. anyone else other than myself? Am I. doing something stupid? Am I doing. something. um that will fail again? So, it's been a. lot of fear. Um. but. you know what? It's been a wonderful. journey that every time I've pushed. through that fear, we get to the other. side, and actually it's better on the. other side. It's even better. >> Had you known how hard it would be, do you think that 21-year-old Daniel. would have done it?

>> [sighs]. >> I don't think I had any other choice. >> But if I'd sat that Daniel down and I'd. say, "Daniel, this is what's going to. happen in the next 20 years. You're. going to go up, and then you're going to. lose it all, then you go up, you lose it. all. And you're going to feel like this. at this moment. It's going to be the. worst day. And you're going to feel like. this, and then this, and then this. You're going to be working hard the. whole time. Then you're going to lose. faith.". Would you have done it? >> Secretly, yes. And the reason for that is I kind of I. kind of like the roller coaster. Feel like I needed to go through boom, bust, boom, bust, boom, bust because I I.

secretly didn't want a straight line. I think I think I actually want the the. the I want the more interesting story. At 24, I was offered $14 million for my. company, uh and I blew it. I I screwed up the. negotiation, and we ended up all walking. away from the deal. I think it would have been the worst. thing possible had I had $14 million at. uh. at age 24. >> So, I've drawn a a little graph here on. this iPad. One axis is your success, and.

the other axis is time. Could you draw for me what your career. looks like in terms of success over. time, including the ups, the downs, etc., etc.? >> Well, if we just talk objectively, what. other people would have seen, um I do. this nightclub party, and that's. amazing. And then I go and I get a job. with a mentor, and then we build this. business that's like 6 million in its. first year, and I'm like right close to. it. And we go from zero to like 60. employees. And then I have a fight with.

my mentor, and he uh tells me, "Go start. your own business." So, I go right down. to start from scratch again, and I'm in. I'm in a really negative place. And then we get started, and suddenly. I've got myself a multi-million-dollar. business. And then the government. changes the law, and we have to reinvent. that business. And then we get a new. amazing contract and now we do a million. a month and this by the way, this is. only like age 24. And then we screw up the negotiation and. it's right back to the start. And then I. go to London and I start a new business.

and that goes really, really well, really quickly and like one year in. we've got the Palladium Theatre and. we're doing hundreds of thousands a week. worth of sales. And then the global financial crisis. resets the whole business and I lose the. major contracts that we have. And then. >> [laughter]. >> and then I relaunch the business and. then COVID comes along and we're by by. this stage we're in uh 11 cities doing a. couple of million per city and then I. relaunch the business as a digital. business and it goes off the scale. again, right? I'm running out of space.

here. And now we've figured out, okay, we own the assets, we own the brand, uh. we've got a great team, we've got. multiple businesses. And at the moment, and this is around the time I have kids. as well. And it and it starts to really. uh become more stable and more fun and. uh less up and down. But that was my. starting point, up, down, up, down, up, down. >> And this is over the period of how many. years? >> Uh this is this was from 20 to 35. It. was just boom, bust, boom, bust. Punch. in the face, get back up, punch in the.

face, get back up. Uh zero millions, zero millions, zero millions. >> I say all of this. because I think. it's important to people for people to. realize the reality of what it takes and. how hard it is. And you know, often. times if we want to get you know, have a. high-performing podcast or write a great. selling book, we kind of describe it as. a linear journey. You're going to do. this, then you're going to do this, then. this is going to happen, then you do. this, stick at it for long enough and. then and then why? But actually in my. experience, the graph either looks like.

a boom and bust cycle, which is kind of. what I'm seeing here in your graph, or. it looks like. nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, something. exponential. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]. Yeah. >> I mean, even this podcast, if you look. at the graph, it is nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, then. >> 1 million, 2 million, 4 million, 8. million, 16 million, boom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so, the question for me always. becomes like, what would it take for you to survive. either in your story, this boom and bust. scenario, or in many of the things I've done in my.

life, this. no man's land. >> of no feedback. >> It takes a certain something in someone. >> Yeah. >> to be able to weather such a storm. And. I would guess what the what is that? You said that you said a second ago, I. had no choice. >> Yeah, I had no choice cuz I have no. skills. I'm not good at anything. You. know, I've got friends who are good at. coding or good at editing or they're. good at designing. They've got. accounting or they've got dentistry or. something like that to fall back on. I. have no qualifications. I've got a. driver's license as my only.

qualification. Um and I'm. all I'm good at is organizing teams and. getting people in the room and getting. them excited and essentially. encouraging them to work with me and and. build something together. So, I kind of. didn't have a choice. but to keep playing the game, keep. trying. >> And. >> And by the way, I wouldn't change any of. that. Like, there's there's no point. there where I'd go back and say, "Actually, cuz where where where I am. now, every single one of those crushing. drops is where I really learned.

something that I leverage today.". >> Actually, something I said to. someone who works in my team as my. business partner now, Jodie Gibson, when. she emailed me 2 years ago asking me to. invest in a startup, a startup that I myself had failed at. I. basically was trying to say, "This is. not going to work, but do it anyway, because the actual thing of value here. might not be the million-dollar exit. It's going to be the lessons you learn. from the failure are going to then be. leveraged, as I did at 20 years old when. I went to Silicon Valley and started. talking to people about this thing I'd. spent 2 years failing and was getting. paid $70,000 a month to talk about this.

thing as a 20-year-old with no. qualifications, because I was one of the. very few people who had failed in social. media and therefore had a deep. understanding and a rare skill. You're. no longer going on BBC Newsnight or in. Forbes as the person who did this. But, of all the things you've done in your. life, this great failing is going to be. the most valuable asset you have. And. this is what your story proves cuz every. time it goes higher. >> Yeah, it really does. Yeah, it was it. was amazing. Like. the the like I can tell you what the. moments feel like at the bottom and. they're horrible and alcohol's involved.

and. you know, like wanting to just completely hide and. you know, never be seen by anyone ever. again. And then suddenly you go, "Okay." I. mean, I've got this friend of mine who. who's an entrepreneur who's failed. several times and he says, "You feel. like you're on a tightrope and then you. fall off the tightrope and you realize. it was only 6 in off the ground. You know, it's not as bad as you think. and you can hop back on the tightrope. and go and you can go again." But, every single [clears throat] time it's. just gotten better and better and better.

and bigger and bigger and more more. stable and more like reliable. >> There is another story which is. one that doesn't have the survivorship. bias cuz now Daniel, you've been wildly. successful. People walk down the street, people know who you are. They you know, you've got millions of people that tune. in to watch you give advice. But, there's also a version of reality where. that wasn't the ending. And I actually know someone who. has fought for 15 years to build. businesses all across the world. and they.

they just don't have that self-awareness. piece. >> Mhm. >> I don't know if I'm self-aware. Like. none of us can actually know cuz that. requires self-awareness. >> We've all got our blind spots. >> They'll continue to stop businesses and. it's putting their family at risk now. They go through the same boom and bust. cycle, but it never goes higher. >> Yep. >> And if you were to ask me objectively, do I think they'll ever have the moment. you've had now? You have a survivorship bias that I. have. We did something, it was hard. and then it paid off. >> Here's the thing, there are no happy. endings. Uh life ends.

abruptly. One thing that happens when you get a. little older. is you start discovering that actually. when when you're under 40, you think. everything ends well. And then later on you discover there are. no happy endings. Everyone dies. You get a phone call one day and someone. who is an amazing person has a stroke. And that's them. That's them hit. That's. That's it. What you thought of that you. thought they'd have 20 more years and. they don't. You know, their entire life. changes.

You you're you're left with the. realization that it's just an adventure. Sometimes. sometimes the happy ending that other. people would call as a happy ending or. an objective happy ending. is actually pretty miserable in the. middle of it. There are people who have. everything. You've met them. And. objectively they have the houses and the. cars and the private jets and all that. sort of stuff and they're not. particularly happy. They're miserable. And then there are some people who. they lose all of that stuff, but then. they reconnect with a group of friends. and they're like happier than they've. ever been.

>> Something's. given you this insight. >> Yeah, so someone very close to me, very. dear to me, recently had a stroke, you. know, and. >> [clears throat]. >> yeah, you realize that that happy. ending's not guaranteed. In fact, the. opposite is guaranteed. You realize. everyone everyone dies. Everyone decays. Everyone gets old. If you're lucky, you. get old. Uh and if you're unlucky, you. don't get old. Um so you have to There. comes a point where you have to release. the idea that you're going to have this. happy ending. You're going to have. moments of triumph and moments of.

disaster. You're going to lose people. You're. going to. have everything taken from you. It's. guaranteed. Everything Everything is. taken from you. >> How did that change your perspective, this loved one going through this? >> You you realize that uh. you real or I realized. that. the mental timeline of endless decades. spreading out ahead, endless amounts of. health, endless amounts of relationships.

is not. it's a it's a nice fantasy that keeps us. together. But it's not guaranteed. And. then the impact for me is to treasure. relationships. Um there comes a moment. where. I don't know if this has ever happened. to you yet but you go, "Wow, I didn't. know that was the last conversation.". Um. you don't realize this, but one of the. legacies that you leave behind not you.

because you've got this body of work, but one of the legacies that people. leave behind is little voice notes. that they leave in your phone, that they. leave in your WhatsApp. And [clears throat]. you listen back to some of these voice. notes and you go, "Wow, I didn't know. that was a treasure. Didn't know that. was a special thing.". Um. and this particular person who got. impacted with the stroke, he was. wonderful at voice notes. He he had this. thing that he would do called "It's not.

lost on me" voice notes. And I don't even think he knew he was. saying this, but it was his one of his. favorite phrases, which was "It's not. lost lost on me." So, he'd he'd leave a. voice note and he'd say "Steven, it's. not lost on me how much you're dealing. with at the moment. And it's not lost on. me that you are responsible for a lot of. people's lives and all this and I just. want to acknowledge you." So. >> [clears throat]. >> So, he would leave these voice notes and. he did this with everyone. Like it came.

out of the woodwork that everyone got. these lovely voice notes from this guy. And um. yeah, you you don't realize, but like. literally that is a huge part of. people's legacies. You think you're. going to leave behind all this money, you think you're going to leave behind. all of this big stuff, you think you're. going to leave behind some huge. financial structure. and in the end you leave behind some. really touching voice notes. as as one of the things that will be. most treasured if you're lucky.

>> You've been listening to the voice. notes. >> Yeah, I have. Yeah. Yeah, really really. nice. Really really nice. >> What is that emotion in your face, Daniel? What's the range of emotions? >> Um. it's just the deeper awareness that. the the the real you know, we talk a lot. about technology. We talk a lot about. business. But it the whole game is relationships.

>> It's very easy to get that wrong. >> Isn't it? >> Mhm. >> Very easy for you to get that wrong. >> Mhm. >> Because [clears throat]. um. you're surrounded by such a whirlwind. >> Mhm. >> And. you people want so much from you. You know, a lot of people want a lot. from you and. you think you have to lift people up. around you and you have to do this. heroic effort. Actually. little text message, little voice note. means a lot. It's interesting.

You you for me I figured out that we're. that we're on a rock. We get a few. little laps around the sun. That's it. We get this we like literally pop into. existence like an electron. spinning around a a neutron, whatever it. is. and we we get we're we're on the rock. The most valuable thing is that we're on. the rock together. Like you zoom out. enough, we're we're all just little. dots. We're all just little dots trying to. figure stuff out. Um and we're all. trying to make sense of our own lives.

and we're all trying to ignore how you. know, difficult things can be and. um but then you realize that it's just. the fact that we are moving through time. together. But yeah, you you as I said, you hit a. point where you realize that there is no. happy ending. Unfortunately, there's. not. Uh you you you know, the the ending. is sad. When you hit a certain age, people that. you really love get old and get old and. die. Or they get illnesses, they lose a. big chunk of themselves in one fell. swoop. So,

um. while those moments are happy, while. you've got those happy moments, treasure. those happy moments. Really really. embrace them. Do you have any regrets in. this regard? >> That might help me avoid having similar. regrets. >> I really don't. I'm really really happy that thing like. I'm really. the biggest relationships uh with my. kids. and with my wife. And family formation. I've I've had unbelievably high highs.

Like I've been on the big boats, I've. flown on the private jets, I've had. parties in my honor, I've had big. paydays. All of that cool stuff that people dream. of. Family formation is where like the core. of the core of it. Like that's the core. of happiness for me. You know, the the the intergenerational. passing of life. Uh. which is which is kind of like, "Wow, like that that we I think we've. forgotten how cool that is.

I think we've forgotten the idea that. you're passing on consciousness. And that this being has their own. consciousness. They do their own thing. They come up with their own ideas. They. have their own challenges. Um yeah. It's wild. >> Daniel, thank you. We're done. >> That was great. >> YouTube have this new crazy algorithm. where they know exactly what video you. would like to watch next based on AI and. all of your viewing behavior. And the. algorithm says that this video is the.

perfect video for you. It's different. for everybody looking right now. Check. this video out. I bet you you might love. it.