Craig David Opens Up About His Painful Rise, Fall & Redemption | E135

Could you do me a quick favor? If you're. listening to this, please hit the follow. or subscribe button. It helps more than. you know, and we invite subscribers in. every month to watch the show in person. Making moves, yeah, on a dance floor. This means so, so much to me. Everything I touched was turning into. gold. Everyone wanted a piece of me, and. How does an 18-19 year old deal with. that? The height of success when it is like, "Whoa." There's so much of the the human. part that's being unmet. I felt like I was starting to make that.

tick boxes. When I started to do a band. myself, and I started to do things that. just weren't in alignment, it was a. point where I had dark thoughts. I was. just like, "I can't live my life like. this." What people enjoyed from me was. music, and I realized that when I came. back to London. I feel like the kid. again, and trust me, the crowd are going. to go off when they hear something soon, okay? So, 22 years later, if you could whisper. in the ear of your 14-year-old self, what would you whisper?

Listen, Craig. Without further ado, I'm Steven. Bartlett, and this is the Diary of a. CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if. you are, then please keep this to yourself. Craig, I've got some lyrics that I wanted to. recite to you, okay? It's another day at school, and he's just walking out the door. Got his rucksack on his back, and his. feet dragging on the floor. Always late,

but when he's questioned, he can't think. of what to say. Hides the bruises from. the teachers hoping that they'd go away. Even though his mom and dad, they both. got problems of their own, caught in a. catch-22, but he'd still rather be at. home. Cries himself to sleep and prays. when he wakes up things might have. changed, but everything's the same. That's from your record, Johnny, from. 2006. Yeah. That was a. That was a That was a song that I had to. It was the first time, I think, kind of. opening up and and expressing.

uh. experience that I felt I had maybe on a. lesser degree to a lot of other people. in my school. I think at school, like in my my. secondary school, I had a a very I had a. beautiful upbringing. I I enjoyed life. I was a playful kid. I loved music. Um but secondary school, all boys. school, went to Belle Moore in. Southampton. And for the majority of it, it was a it. was great times, but. when you come in in your early years, and you've got the older.

the older boys in there, and they're. like, "Yo, you got £2 on you?" No, I haven't got. £2. They push you up against the wall. "You got £2 on you?" Like, and then it's. not a case of like, if you've got the. money, it's like, "Let me check in your. pockets. Let me try and pull out the. pockets of your jeans.". So, as a lesser degree of the bullying, I was like I was experiencing it. physically in the corridors. So, I kind. of So, when I was starting to write that. song, I was drawing from I had to go to. how did it feel when that was happening? And it's only happening with one one one. guy in in at one period in the school.

So, I understood what bullying was. I. mean, that was I was. I was felt helpless. I couldn't He was 2. years older, stronger, could rough me up. if he really wanted to. But then also, I was seeing other people. who were getting the a real I was. getting the psychological element, but. there was a deeper side of that. psychology of when. they say, "Tell the teacher, they'll. they'll deal with it.". This is the thing with bullying, is that. I agree with you. that it needs to be spoken to someone. you can confide in, but sometimes that kind of very rush in,

told the teacher, they rush in, they. it's all out in the open. I was seeing kids who would then have. the kid waiting outside of school for. them. Or it might be that they they're. they're they're being bullied by for. someone from a different school, even. So, they'd be coming out to the school. gates thinking, "Okay, well, I'm on my. way home." No, it's about to start when. you get on the bus to go home. So, the whole world is now outside of. school. You you've you've finished at. 3:00 p.m., and and now it's it's. beginning for you. So,

it was I felt deeply that I needed to. write on that. Um and like I said, my my mom and dad. had their own things going on um in. their lives. And and I spoke to my mom. I I wrote the song when I was in. Southampton. I got like a a studio when. I was down there, and I played it to her. cuz I wanted her to also know that "Mom, you've always been supportive to me. Like, if if I needed to speak to you, if. I needed to say things, but. with bullying, there is an element where. you want to say something to the closest. person in your life, be it your family, so your your mother or your father.

Um and I wanted to really portray that. in the song properly, but I wanted to. have that convo with my mom to let her. know I knew that you would have always, if I needed to speak to you, would have. been there, cuz I do say, "You've got. your problems of your own, and I've. tried to tell you so many times, you're. not listening." And that is the case in. a lot of the cases of bullying that even. family aren't listening, so who do you. turn to? So, um music has been that that song in. particular, I think it was a journey. My. grandma had passed away at the same. time. Um. it was a. I just needed to get some stuff off my.

chest that I felt like this is past a. romantic love song. I need to. help people. in in a way that wasn't trying to. preach. It was just let me tell stories, anecdotes, and I do it through music, so. And you were bullied for your weight. back then, as well, right? Yeah, the. Well, the weight one was It's funny cuz. like you like to tell the story. differently when you're you're in a. slightly different place and position. You'll you'll you'll tell it like, "No, you know, it was. And I like I like everything about this. as well. You The your podcast for me has.

always, and I wanted to tell you off the. bat, what I love about you is that you're. bringing out so much so much depth in. people. And you you already know how. much love I got for you, anyway. Appreciate. The the being overweight thing, now I. see it is actually, in hindsight, it. actually. it brought out so many thing wonderful. things that had to kind of that had been. repressed for a long period of time. But. at the time, the social standard was you need to look. a certain way. The the captain of the school football. team tended to be the one that that the.

girls were interested in. You were the. you were the slightly overweight one. that they cry on your shoulder, tell you. all your problems, have this real you. have a real empathic relationship. You'd. be like, "What, this is connection. This. is real relationship," but we don't want. to take any further than that. Well, I. he's the one. Look at the way he scored. the goal. Look at So, then you've. already got this early. imprint of what society expects of you, and then you start trying to conform to. that. So, there were periods where I'd.

look in the in. walking down the the high street, and. I'd look in the in the in the glass, the. reflection in the glass. And I'd just be looking like. just feeling sorry for yourself, being. like, "The jeans ain't fitting quite. right, and the the jacket's not," and. you're getting. bigger sizes, and then you're just. feeling like, "I'm doing all the fit I'm. doing I I could run. I had some I had I. had some legs on me, you know?" And And. probably the boys at school would be. like, "Bro, you weren't a you weren't a. really fast runner. Which part do you. run at?" But I'll tell the story. I'm on. the mic now. Um I had So, I can move,

but I was just carrying a lot of weight. Um but not unhealthy. I think there was. a point at that when it became unhealthy. was when I realized that my weight had I. was like 15, and I I think my weight had. was starting to get to I was 14, and my. weight had got to 14 and 1/2 stone. So, I was starting to get. over my age and weight. I was And I was. like, "Maybe I need to slightly rein. this in a little bit, health-wise.". I ask these questions because and I. always start with childhood on this. podcast, and I I I've I've reflected on. this over and over again, and thought, "Maybe I should start somewhere else,".

but I know from my own experiences that. my own like childhood traumas, or the. things that made me feel a bit invalid. or insecure, or felt feel shame when I. was younger, ended up being like the the biggest. drivers in my life. So, when I sit here, I'm trying to find out why, you know, you got really into fitness, and why you. became, you know, who who you became. I. always start with like, "What were the. things when you were a kid that made you. feel shame, invalid, like you didn't fit. in?" And And those tend to be the. pathway to people's, you know, people's.

greatness in a weird way. 100%. Like, it. it all your your you've got this this. period where your heart's open. You want. to you're experiencing life. You're a. child Like you said, you're a child. you're a puppy. You like you just you. don't know, and then all of a sudden you. get that, "Ooh, is that Oh, that Oh, I. can't do that. Oh, that's the way to. go." And then you're you're you're. you're getting all that you're. imprinting all these patterns that. only later you start to realize in in. your in your not even saying teenage. years, I think it's still, you know, adolescent years at that point. But when. maybe in your 20s, start to unpack.

things. Just if you if you're conscious, you're starting to recognize that this. doesn't seem to line up with my truth. And then in your 30s, for me, it was. like, "Whoa, I have to unpack all this. stuff that was like the overweight. thing, because you're exactly right that it. started then. And listen, I could I could eat sweets. like Cadbury's Boost bars were getting. eaten like crazy. I'd go to the the the. newsagents before I went to school to. get on the bus. I'd be also selling chocolate as well. So, I had like a little Yeah, yeah, I. was early days entrepreneur. Early days,

yeah. You'd find the the the chocolate. that was like had about 2 weeks left. before it was out of date, and you'd I'd. work that in my in my lessons. Like, listen, I knew I had like from 9:00 till. 11:00 before there was a there was a. tuck shop break. So, I could just set. the tone as to how much I want to sell. it for. Well, you want a a Mars bar for. Yeah, it's a £1.50. Like, "Well, I don't. want a £1.50." Okay, bro, then wait till. 11:00 then. You can go to you can get it. for 35p, whatever it is. Oh, bro, you. you got a pound then. Okay, cool, a. pound. I was The leverage was incredible.

So, I always had a had affiliation, and. one of my favorite movies is Willy Wonka. and the Chocolate Factory. So, I think. that set the tone, anyway. I've got a. bit of Augustus Gloop in me. I've got. the I think we've got all the myriad of. characters in that movie is me, and. ultimately Charlie, like, you know what. I mean? Um. So, yeah, so it just I've I've been. unpacking it a lot of those things, and. realizing that my my health streak. that I got went on at sort of in when I. was in sort of Miami sort of time, and. even slightly before that, was all to do with this childhood thing. of I've got to the six-pack, the captain.

of the school football team. It's funny. how like those things like you're like, "Whoa.". And it wasn't even And then the crazy. thing with it is that. when I got into the music when I start. Rewind start blowing up, it was people. would just want to hear me sing. Yeah. It was like they didn't care if my. stomach was here, there, six-pack, one-pack, two-pack. And by the way, everyone everyone has a six-pack. underneath. So, just know that. Otherwise, your stomach's going to fall. out. So, if that's just the saving grace. for everyone. Don't worry about the fat. content and the fat There's a six-pack. underneath everyone. So, walk out in the.

street and feel confident with that. That's great. Let's not tell people. that. Um you you talked in those lyrics, but then also then you talked about your. parents. Mhm. And you said there was I I. know again that's another dynamic. because those are the for most people. the most formative figures in their. life. What was the relationship with. your parents? And you said they had. things going on that that were kind of. it sounded like distracting them. from the things that were going on in in. your school life. Yeah, I mean. my mom and dad broke up got divorced. when I was eight.

Um. but the beautiful thing is that my that. my my dad always would come pick me up. on the weekends on a. a Sunday and we'd either be going to. like Potters Park like. go-karting or I'd be helping him fix a. kitchen. which I've got I used to say to my dad. like dad like what's coming to fix a. kitchen like like we And like it was. just I remember the the tools and the it. was dry and dusty and I'm thinking but I. loved those times with my dad. Yeah, he. really made an effort and I drives in. his car playing reggae music heavily.

influenced everything that I was going. through. And for my mom it was like she was. working 9:00 to 5:00. So, my grandma and. my mother would pretty much raising me. My grandma would come pick me up from. school when my mom was at work. So, I had a lot of feminine energy in my. life which I'm really grateful for cuz. it set the tone for how I wrote a lot of. my songs. Even 7 Days. I mean, I'm. saying making love at 17 years old. writing a song. Who's saying making love. on Wednesday? On Wednesday. I mean, you. listen to the songs now if they're not.

using that kind of language. But it was. that I got There's a respect I had for. my for my for my mother, for my. grandmother. And the fact that even my dad like I. didn't want him cussing out on record. like that. But just be like, "Yo, we. need to speak about this." So, I just I. felt I got a really good upbringing. But. at the same time I didn't have a great. model of. family life at home. I got a lot of. um feminine energy and female. uh love, intention, and care, and all. the things that you love from your mom. and grandma. And then my dad was just like always had.

my back and I've got you. But I never I. never seen them together. So, I think again looking at. childhood um imprints and patterns is. how they affect you later on. Relationship with with women was. something I've always been really close. to. But I also had never had a model of. how do you how do you stay together? With like the the relationship part like. I'm a romantic. But if you look at your. relationships like they haven't really. worked out too well or you've been. guarded. And it's a journey of again of.

is this story true? It's got There's a. point where you've got to be conscious. enough to actually ask that question and. it tends to knock on the door. And. intuition's always there sort of saying, "We can have this convo if you want like. we can I'll I'll present you with the. books. I can present you with the click. on the right podcast to go to. I'll get. you to it we can unpack this. Someone. will inspire you to do that." But. there's also. what I've seen now and I feel I feel. very I feel. open enough to be apologetic for. relationships that.

I I just I didn't I my heart was closed. off from the basis that not only from. the family modeling, but also your first. break heartbreak. So, for me it was like. I. my heart was so open and I had that. first heartbreak and it just went from a. kid who was had his heart open and. thought this is it and you're into me. and it's going to And then all of a. sudden it just crashed and I was like, "Whoa." That feeling and I didn't I. never felt anything like that before. where it was like. I didn't know who to turn to. It was.

like I felt that. after after early childhood. sweetheart breakup my my heart had kind. of closed down and I and I feel sorry. for. the the the girls and and women in the. last stages of my life have tried to. open my heart up. And that's all they. were trying to do. There's There's. There's things that went a bit toxic and. and went but I I have to own those. situations. There's a lot of guys that. like, "Yeah, well, she the the the girl. was like this or she was crazy." No, no, no, no, forget all of that. I walked into that and I stepped in with.

a certain kind of energy and I gave off. a certain feeling and. especially if you're having sexual. relationships, there's a there's a. there's an energy exchange between two. people and you can play it off as like, "No, but we had an unwritten agreement. where it was like no strings attached.". And you can play that game as much as. you want. Get enough karma. you'll start to see that there'll be. some someone who will be your teacher at. some point. And I thank every woman in. my life that I've had relations with. I. thank you for teaching me in some way. I.

want I want to go on record with that. cuz I feel like it's something that I've. always. I now get it that I was moving a little. bit reckless in the the early times with. the music and everything going on. And. there were there were people who were. trying to. get to my heart and I was just like, "No, I've got this thing. It's easier to. keep it arms length." And it just. doesn't work like that. So, two. questions on that then. What was the. evidence or the story that your parent. your parents' relationship taught you or. left you with. Okay. for better for worse? And then. that first heartbreak. What were the two. stories those two incidents told you.

about relationships? So, having no modeling of what real. relationship is, it it showed me early. from from mom and dad as much as I love. them with all of my heart that. being single. is the best way to get through life. Just stay single cuz I never saw my. mother with another partner. I never. really saw my dad with another partner. Um and I have sisters and brothers. I. never I I but I. I never of of my dad's other. relationships that he had. Um and I love.

them equally. But it's just I never had. any. clear. reason to say that relationship works. And then it reinforces so the story adds. on later on in your life. You start to. see how people. are with each other who are in. relationships and you get friends who. are in relationships and they may be. cheating on their partner or you're. seeing how. uh there's been scenarios where a girl. says she's she's in a relationship. And. thankfully it hasn't been the husband or. anything. But there've been. relationships. I'm not going to be the. the guy saying I I've never met a girl.

who was in something. And they'll tell. you a story that is I was breaking up. we're not really in it. But you're. you're starting it's reinforcing the. same thing of. well, stay single then. Yeah, yeah. Don't get involved in all this because. you your heart will be protected and. life is good and we can keep arms. length. Then link that into the the. first breakup first heartbreak. Heart. was open. Gave everything relationship I'm all in. Like I'm going to As a child I was like, "Okay.". It's hard to psychologically you don't. really understand what's going on in. your in your family, your parents. But. you just at school now and you see a.

girl you're like, "Man, I'm falling I'm. falling for you." and. she's into you and it's all happening. and it could have been I think it was. only like about a week week and a half. Yeah. The break. It wasn't it was this. we're talking early early days. But when. your heart is fully open yeah. The crushing feeling I had after that. set the tone for. the rest of my life until now I've. unpacked the whole thing which which all. goes hand in hand with some of the songs. I've written on albums before where I'm. talking about breakups. There's a song. called Thief in the Night which is about.

a girl who. like what why did you have to end up. being with my best friend? Like why did. There's moments where I'm looking back. thinking when I was writing that song. what was I feeling? I was feeling the. same heartbreak that I had at the same. zero understanding of what relationship. is. And then now I see it's all about. relationship. It's all about opening. your heart up again in the same feeling. that I think we both share when you said. that you had your moments of the trigger. points in your life had to open up. again. And you met someone who met you. at a place to help you through that.

which is even better when you meet. someone who's conscious and gets it and. says, "I've got you. Baby steps if you need. to. But I'm with you. Yeah.". I'm at that place now where I'm like, "Can you keep your heart open?". My heart's open, man. It's open. in a way that I'm. I'm down if it if something tried to. tried to close it down. I'm open as much as I was when I first. had my heart open. And I I wouldn't have. said that maybe in a few years back. The. journey has kind of rapidly kind of. entered into a phase where I just know.

that that's the the truth of the matter. And where are you relationship wise? Single at the moment which. is. again, you have. especially as as as as a guy and I can. only really kind of speak on my. experiences and and. we tend to. our actions have to line up with the way. that we're. we're feeling. And and I felt that there. was times when I was talking the good. talk. But the way I'm the way I'm acting. is different than what I was how I was. acting before. So, then there's a part where you have. to pull back the faders and be like, "Okay, well,

this means that I can't enter into. things where it's. purely This had changed long to the 10. years ago for me. The the. the objectifying of women that that. thing there was something where I had to. just check myself and be like, "What is. this patterning that you have of of a. look and how someone's got to be and and. that's all part of the same thing that. was happening as a as a kid.". That it was. it was very dreamy without the. relationship. And now it's flipped. I I. look for relationship in in in I want to.

have a situation where I can connect. with you. Now, regardless of the look, if we're not going to a place where we. can go there, we can laugh. Laugh is one. of the biggest values of of any. relationship. Someone makes me laugh cry. uncontrollably, you've always got half. of my heart already. Yeah. Because. that's going to save you when the. relationship has its ups and downs. So, the down is when you need someone who. can bring that. Cuz trust me, the. romantic phase. as as we all know, that's intoxicating. Yeah, when you wake up after the. hangover. and it's real, you're still having the. same feeling and love starts then. That.

hangover. right then, that's when you're going to. ask yourself, am I really in love? The. romantic thing has just a bit of. sweetness and. Have you had long-term relationship? See, it would sound so short for so many. people, but me it felt long. 2 and 1/2. years was probably my longest. relationship and. Same as me. And and even then, like I. don't feel like I opened my heart. I I. really felt that the girl was really. trying to get me to to break down some. walls and.

I I go on record that as as toxic as. things can go. with a little bit of time and. separation, you look at it back at back. and you say, thank you cuz you taught me. so much about how I was moving and how I. was going on and I'm a better man for. that. Cuz now I can open up my heart. like this cuz a lot of guys don't want. to talk like that. They want to keep it. cool. They don't want to talk like that. So. One of the other things talking about. things that kind of invalidated us when. we were younger or that we were aspiring. to, I saw this quote and actually saw a. picture of the estate you lived on and. it's. going to say, it's not the estate that I.

would wish to have lived on. I don't want to criticize, you know, an. area, but it's not it it didn't look I. saw a like a gray apartment apartment. block and it it looked like a and. council estate. It was a council estate, yeah. And you the quote you said was you were. a kid looking out of your bedroom window. at the estate car park and imagine. having jacuzzis. Do you know what? I think to correct the. quote even more, yeah, because the. jacuzzi one like. it's funny cuz I was talking about this. only yesterday about like it when I was.

speaking about filming in and I was. like, yeah, I was like jumping in the. jacuzzi. I was thinking. what jacuzzi was actually jumping in. because the last time I checked you were. in a two-bedroom flat with your mom, yeah. So, the only jacuzzi you were. jumping in was your bath, yeah. So, that's let's put that on record. And you. were in a 4 by 4, yeah? Okay, cool. So, which driving license did you have at. that point cuz you were only like 15, 16. when you were writing this all? It was aspirations. Aspirations. But looking out of that. window overlooking that car park. what my grandmother brought to. to the table in terms of like I mean, the love that my mom just from my.

family, I'm just really grateful for. that upbringing. But my grandma, as. grandmas do. and I make sure you you get the right. food in in you, make sure you wear the. jacket, you know what I mean? Cuz it's. going to get cold, it's going to rain. later on and you're like, grandma. And. then it rains, they just have this. wisdom, yeah. She had a beautiful little garden. in the house that she lived and it was. like 5 minutes away from where I lived. And I was just like, that for me would. was was enough as an inspiration. to say if I could have a house with a. garden in Southampton. we're good here. I mean.

little did I know that how it would. cascade from the music into. yeah, just that that times 10 in terms. of just like my eyes being open, but it. was that inspiration from my grandma. And I looked at the car park and it was. like. hit me on my grind. I came on my grind. That council estate. working class family. growing up. made me have to make ends meet where. secondary school wasn't really setting. me up for when I leave here. I was like. I was already doing my market stall.

selling of. chocolates at school, already had that. going on. I was already doing mixtapes. So, that was my kind of go-to in the. barbers selling mixtapes for. 10 pounds that I'd be doing at home. which would buy another piece of. equipment that I'd get another speak. another pair of speakers or another mini. disc player to record on. Then I was. getting a printer so I could print my. own covers. Then I. I was. everything I kind of I'm doing now, weirdly enough. it's no different than what I was doing. when I was a kid. I literally had my. whole whole little factory of making. tunes, trying to have a little business.

going on. so I can make ends meet in my own way. without having to try and pull money. from my mom cuz she already had her own. things going on and she supported me. beyond. Like I think she was going to. deep into overdrafts just to make my my. life feel comfortable. You got the Sega. Mega Drive, right? It was Sonic the. Hedgehog and those those games, yeah. So, brought back memories of that. Yeah, you got the but. when I think back there was. where where my money was get where my. mom was getting this money from. Like. she was deeply in debt. So, when you. look back, you say, mom, the love I have.

for you. Like 9 to 5, I'm making me feel. like I was getting everything that any. other kid was getting. You know what I. mean? But. and my dad, you know what I mean? Like. he he support he would he would never no. one could cross me. No one no one could. do anything bad to my dad have me. They'd have to cross my dad and that was. the kind of and that protection is good. to a certain degree, but then when you. grow up dad's not there to do the. things. So, how. where's that part? So, you're coming to understand. I've got so much feminine energy in me. and that part, but I need the.

speaking your truth action now. So, it's. the yang, my man. The yang. Yeah, the. yang. So, you talk about music there and. it one of the things that was really. remarkable reading through your stories. how early music came into your world and. how early you started like selling. mixtapes and I sat here with I sat here. with many musicians and it tends tended. a little bit later in life. Even Diplo. sat here last week and Diplo it was I. don't know, he was 25 or something. before he really started going in music, but you were you were young. I know your.

dad had an influence in that because he. was very into reggae. Yeah. And he was. in a reggae band, right? Yes. But where did music show up in your. life and then and how did that obsession. kind of like take hold? Um. I mean, it was. Like I said when I earlier on I said. like you you're a little high five when. you come into the world. I feel that and. you lose all the the cognitive. understandings to what's going on and. why we're here and then but there's. something intuitively that's pulling you. in certain directions and as a child you. very much honor that. You just go in the. direction.

So, I was always intrigued by the little. high five set up my mom had it in the. flat with a big box of records. and I'd just be flicking through them. and I and there was a a vinyl in there. There was Ebony Rockers which is my. dad's reggae group which more recently. there's a mural now in Southampton. they've put on on on Ogwell Road. Huge mural that that says about Ebony. Rockers and I'm thinking, wow, so proud. of my dad. I was like, yes, dad. Cuz you. are a musician in your heart, bass. guitar player. the the the group were talking about.

social issues that were going on in the. '70s, '80s and being able to put that on. record and talk about injustices that. were going on in their lives in. Southampton and have it on record, but. now you're getting recognized for that. Ah, man, like I just love love my dad. for that. It's like I'm just so happy. for him. So, I was looking at the records and I. pulled out his record and I'd be like, Ebony Rockers and my mom would say, yeah, that's your dad's group. And I'd. be like, my dad's like early though. I'm. talking like 5, 6 years old looking. like, my dad's in a group. So, I know.

that's definitely there's some lineage. there. There's there's DNA that's come. through musically. My mom was always. into Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson. Uh my first ever 7-in I ever bought was. it was Human Nature. Oh, really? With. Michael Jackson? Yeah, cuz it it was on. a 7-in. It was in a It was a small little box. next to the the 12-in. Um it was the first one I bought. That's. one let me tell you right. It was the. first one I bought, first song I ever. bought. So, that's why and the I mean, look at the lyric of the song. It.

couldn't be any more perfect as a as a. song of like being conscious and. understanding the world. So, yeah, so I got I had a. and there was there was the bit of Donny. Osmond in there cuz my mom was a big fan. of the Osmonds which was a big group. back in the day. Um mixed with the Stevies and the. Michaels and and and then also have my. dad's. reggae, deep reggae from Beres Hammond. to Sanchez. uh. Terror Fabulous, Buju Banton, Beenie. Man, Bounty, like early. Like I'm a.

sound man at heart. I think when I'm in. the studio, people are like. you literally are Buju Banton, but no. one's actually say like hearing you do. this, yeah. Because I go into this. reggae Kilimanjaro, David Rodigan, uh Black Cat Sound System in me. So, when I hear See Carnival, I'm just like. it's me sitting up with rice up with a. little bit of rice and chicken, a little Budweiser by speaker and I'm. good. So, yeah, man, that music. started off early and then I just I just. felt like it I just was gravitating.

towards it, too. When was the first time. you made music in any kind of context? Um. first time I made music was. my dad got me a a hi-fi system called. Studio 100. For anyone who knows that, it was like a. big box, like huge like box with loads. of faders on the front. He came home one. day like he just came to the house and. said, Greg, I got you this Studio 100. I. was like, woo, what am I supposed to do. with this? I have no idea. So, so it had. loads of faders, loads of microphones. with different colored. foam capsules on the top. It looked the the business with a with a.

a record deck on top. Two twin cassette decks. and lots of switches that I didn't. understand what was going on. But I was. excited cuz I was like, wow, this is the. first time I might be able to record. something. So, I was just fully invested. and when you're a kid, you learn all the. fix, you know all the. So, I started to record. I would have. said I was 11, 11, 12 years old when. that came through and I you'd put a TDK. cassette tape um there was a D90 which. was like the basic one or you if you.

were feeling kind of saucy with it, you'd have like a chrome or or a metal. They were 2.49 those ones, but if you. went for the normal D90, it was like a. little 69p one. I put I'd buy two of them. You'd record. into one tape. So, I'd put the first lead line of. something. And a lot of my early songs. were just sounding like I was literally. just lifting the vocals from every other. song that I was listening to. I I didn't quite get the memo of oh, we. have to change the melody that much for. it to not be sounding like I'm singing. Jodeci Freakin' You or Boyz II Men. Why.

does it sound like you literally just. changed like the the road to street on. end of the road? You have to do a bit more than that. which I kind of you will learn quickly. if you don't get the memo, yeah. Um but yeah, so I started to bounce the. the vocals down. So, you sing onto one. cassette, you put that in the bottom. that tape cassette, you then put in. fresh one in the top and you let that. play and you record on top. So, you were. dubbing on top of your vocal. The. quality was diminishing every time you. did that, yeah, cuz this is old school. stuff. But, I was starting to finish. a song. I was feeling very.

very proud of myself that I could. actually write a song. How old? I would have been like Yeah, like 11 12. years old. 11 12 years old. But, yeah, that kind of led into. a world very nourished with R&B, reggae, but also the the pop soul element. Terence Trent D'Arby was the first show. I ever went to at the Guildhall in. Southampton. It blew my mind. I saw this. guy. I was front row. I saw him like he. was moving like Prince with Marvin Gaye. He had the voice of like a Stevie Wonder.

with Michael Jackson. The hardline. according to album was like it was like. 7 8 million albums. It was a huge record. for him with the the breakout song Sign. Your Name Across My Heart. Again, look. at the the the the messages. Sign Your. Name Across My Heart, yeah. I'm like finally, we're getting the. message now. I need to let someone sign. it fully. You know what I mean? And. capitals hold that. But, changed my life. I was like if I. can I'd love to do what that guy does. From 11 12 when you're messing around. with those cassettes.

to I think when I I've heard you kind of. kind of recount that your first break. was winning that songwriting contest. with Damage, wasn't it? Yes. Was that. what you consider that to be your first. kind of like break. opportunity? You know what? It is like. it gave me a it gave me the first taste. of. of. reinforcing that I could actually do. this. Like it I thought it was a bright. break. Like I was going to we've done it. here. Yeah, yeah. I've written the song. I'm ready. It's on the back of it's on. the B-side of Wonderful Tonight. They. are a Clapton cover which was the lead.

single. I'm telling everyone in it went to. number two in the charts. I'm telling. all my friends it's because of obviously. my song I'm ready, not the classic. Wonderful Tonight that they've covered, right? Um. but, I thought it was off the back of. that. And I actually sang vocals on. that. I did BVs on the song. They let me. come up to London, met the guys. I was. just like wow, this is like a dream come. true. But, I didn't off the back of it it was. like okay, it was in the shops for a few. weeks. But, nothing. It went quiet after that. How old were you when you won that. songwriting competition for the boy band.

Damage? I would have said I was 14. Around that. 14 15. You start messing around with. music at about 11-ish, you said, right? And then at 14 you win the songwriting. competition for the boy band Damage. Um. and that's what like three years of just. continuing to mess mess around and. develop and practice and just play. around with music, right? Between that. time. Yeah. It was it was. And again, the support of my mom and dad. in in in ways that now I'm just like so. thankful for bringing that studio 100.

piece of equipment that for me to. record. Yeah, my first record deck. All all. these things now I was the kid looking. through the music store like oh, I wish. I could have that. Wish I had that one. if I could get that one equalizer. It. would I could mix it. I was just that. I'm nerdy with it. And they would always. somehow have a 10 pound and a 20 pound. ready for me to help me out. And I had. my my chocolate thing going on as well. It's something really interesting about. you saying nerdy with it because. the guests that I've sat here with. specifically the musicians, it always. seems to be the case that when they were.

younger or just before, you know, maybe. in the 10 years before they blew up or. whatever, they were just like really. nerdy with music. There wasn't really an. intention of being the greatest or. getting the number one albums. They were. just like obsessed. Even Wretch 32 when. he sat here it was the same thing. He. was just clearly just nerdy with it. Very very young age. And I think that's. that's really important to point out. because the pathway to getting to where. you got to in your life isn't that. doesn't appear to be. or at least the starting point doesn't.

appear to be this obsession with. becoming a superstar. It's this kind of. nerdy fascination cuz you spent three. years between 11 and 14 just messing. around with cassettes on some piece of. hardware that your dad bought you. Yeah, of course. It's it's it it did feel that. my obsession with music like when I when. I look back and it's it's different now. cuz I have the same I have the the same. kid in me that wants to do the same. thing that I may have done in those. periods of time especially when I start. collecting vinyl. Like I knew every producer. I knew where.

the snare was on this track was taken. from a Changing Faces song over there. And this record over here used the kick. drum from there. The bass is used. I was in it. Like I had everything in. alphabetical order with the plastic. sleeves that they all went in. Room was. getting to the point where I couldn't. fit in my room for records. So, I was. really living it to the point where I'd. swap shop with records. I'd be like like. other DJs would say, I I got to London get records, bring. them back. Those days DJs were the.

go-to. Like it wasn't like you go on New. Music Friday and you get 1,000 songs to. kind of to to look through. It was like if a DJ played in the club, you would go and speak to the DJ find. out where he got it from because. he's got his 10 copies maybe and this is. a promo that's not going to come out for. six months. Like literally songs were. like you had time cuz it was physical. Where are you going to go? You can't. copy this unless you've got a lathe and. you're going to start to print acetates. in your house. So, you have to wait. So, I'd when you went out to London. especially cuz this was like the hub for.

where everything was being made and. printed up. I'd come back sometimes from to. Southampton with some record. DJs are. like where you get that great? Where you. get that? I said, yeah, you know, I'll swap you a. Faith Evans I Just Can't and a Jade for. the tune that you got. And I said, maybe give me a little 10 pound extra. for that. You could you could it was all. vibes, man. I just it was such a fun. time cuz things were slower. And I love it now, but it's just there's. a lot to get into. There's a lot of. music being released just to to keep up.

with the flex of it. I had a few words to say about one of my. sponsors on this podcast. My girlfriend. came upstairs yesterday when I was. having a shower and she said to me that. she tried the Huel protein shake which. lives on my fridge over there and she. said it's amazing. Low calories, you get. your 20 odd grams of protein, you get. your 26 vitamins and minerals and it's. nutritionally complete. In the protein. space there's lots of things, but it's. hard to find something that is nice. especially when consumed just with water. and that is nutritionally complete and. that has about 100 calories in total.

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which is the one my girlfriend likes, but for me salted caramel is. the one. Between 14 and 18 then, what happens then for you? I'd gone from. the the songwriting competition. a moment where it was like okay, this is. the this is the this is the thing, but. then it carried on where okay, this. wasn't necessarily the big breakthrough. Heavily into the into collecting. records. I started to DJ early on. I was. MC at first for. another DJ called DJ Flash who I respect.

so much because he brought a lot into my. life to to be. able to be a chaperone for me really. He. knew my dad. And. he was 10 years older than me. And I had. that at 14 I looked a lot older as well. So, I I could kind of get I could style. it to get into clubs with him. And he'd let me be his MC. So, I'd be. called MC Fade and I was just like, you. know what I mean? The fade was Chris and. I just thought that was the. it's crazy. And then he'd give me like a. he'd give me a little slot. to to play maybe a little 15 minutes at.

the end of his DJ set. So, in. Southampton he was playing most of the. kind of big clubs there. And he. introduced me to the Cajun Zoo in. Bournemouth. We'd do a couple shows in in Portsmouth. So, I was like his I was his MC and also. his box boy as well cuz trust me the. back was getting like. smashed picking up those heavy boxes, yeah. It's different when you're wearing. the chain with the MP3 on it. It's. different when you're picking up those. boxes, right? Your your squat game's got. to be really on point. Your glutes are. going to be you'll be fired up.

But, I'd always do this thing with him. where I'd be like, fresh I think I think actually that girl. you were I would just try and find like. a girl he had his eyes on. He'd be. watching all through the night. I'd be. like, I think she she keeps looking at. you, man. You need to go. You need to go. and speak to her. He goes, yeah, but I. was don't worry. I got you. I'll let me. you go and speak to her, man, cuz she's. going to go and it's all going to Okay, cool. Handle the fort. I'll handle the fort. Yeah, you're right. So, I'd play like a. little half an hour thing, yeah. He's. skirting around. Should I go and speak. to her? Should I and he's just standing. next to her. He goes over for the for. the move. She blows him out completely.

cuz you were never looking at him at all. for the whole thing, right? I've got a. 30 minute DJ set and then he's come back. like, great. So, she didn't even I goes, I don't know. She was looking at you all. the time. I'm not sure. You got to find your ways, yeah. But, I. learn from between that 14 to to to. really to 16. was a period of DJing intensely. Then I. started to go off and do my own DJing. sets with MC Alister who's part of the. Artful Dodger. He goes and does MC sets. now. And then it was kind of it was moving. I. was at college. I'd gone from secondary.

school. Now I was at college at City. College. I was doing an NVQ level two in. electronics. It was like the closest. thing I could get to music because there. wasn't like. production. courses like they do now which would. have been great. Back then it was like. how do you forge a trumpet out of metal. and how was how do you make a guitar. from scratch with wood? And I'm like, you know, I just want to know how. Timbaland makes that or Rodney Jenkins. makes the the the vocal sound so good. Can someone show me that? And there wasn't a course. So, I thought.

let me do electronics because at least. that gets me closer to circuit boards. which the sounds was around the corner. Had some wicked equipment in there. I. thought even if I got a a. job working in would be great. I'd be. near decks. I'd near twin tape cassette. decks, and maybe I'll get a little. discount. So, that was my road I was. going down DJing, MCing there. Never thought it would necessarily. mean meeting Mark Hill and Pete Devereux. from the Artful Dodger, which is where. it it really then transcended. Tell me about that. So, in one club, it was called Old.

Orientals, um 10 minutes around the corner from. where I I was living with my mom. Um was. DJing downstairs uh R&B hip-hop set. Upstairs was house and garage night. Um. Mark Hill and Pete Devereux, who are the. original Artful Dodger, were playing. upstairs. Now, this is the early doors. for garage music. So, you're hearing. like. It's a London thing was playing. Um. Scott Garcia, which was like a classic. garage thing from them days, and. it's even like the the.

Lessons in Love was coming through. Robbie Craig, and there were just tunes. coming through and playing. And then I. would go pop my head up and be like, it. wasn't packed up there, but I was like. This is This is a vibe. It's got like. It's like. They're layering R&B stuff now. It felt. over this skippy I don't know what you. call it. It's I know what two-step was. It was like it was a speed garage. It. was just some weird like some eclectic. thing that's not house, but it feels UK. And then all of a sudden we got into. conversation. I was talking about all. these songs that I've been recording at.

home where I didn't have a producer or. someone who could create the music for. me. Um I was using instrumentals and. stuff to just sing over like you hear a. freestyle. And then literally that that I mean, this is where it's so divine that the. serendipity of it was so beautiful. Mark. Hill, who ended up producing the whole of Born. to Do It album, said, "I've been looking. for someone who writes songs. Like I I. do music. Like I've got the music thing. locked down, but I need someone who who. writes songs who can sing." And I was. like, "Oh, this is a perfect marriage.". And he says, "I've got a studio. It's.

like 5 minutes from here at a place. called Ocean Village.". And I was like, you can't even make this. up. Like it's it was. the club like my my flat, the. the the Old Orientals place that we met, the studio, it was literally within a. 10-minute walk. It was like all. perfectly planned. And then from that, the next thing I did was record a song. called uh What You're Gonna Do, which was the first release from Artful. Dodger. And I remember it being printed up on a. on vinyl. They did their own thing, boxed it all up. I felt sweet. When.

you're on a vinyl, I felt I'd made it at. that point. I'm on vinyl, yeah. And they. got up in a van, and they took it up to. London. They go into the record stores, and they say, "Look, we've got them to. take two boxes here at this record. store." And uh So, in Derby Street in. Soho records there, in Brixton we've got. some I was like, And something started to build, my man. Like I can't. I was like just happy to be on a record, but then. all of a sudden I was getting people. saying who they'd be coming back down. from London saying, "I'm hearing your. tune getting played on pirate radio. stations, you know." I'm like, "What?".

I'm hearing like it's going off. Drop. the funk, drop the bass, hit it. And I'm. like, "What? Are you. And they're like, but then random people. saying, "Oh, well, I I was coming up. from London. It's getting It's getting. played. Like I went to a a club. It went. off. The DJ span it like four times back. to back.". Something was bubbling. And next thing you know, I got a call from Public Demand, who. were the label that were that had got. invested in that in that record. They'd. done a licensing deal for that song. They said, "Do you want to come up to. London and start doing some some PAs, some some performances for the song?".

And so, I'd love to. So, I called up my. mate Clinton in his yellow Fiesta. Remember clearly. Got the Jamaican flag. in the back, yeah? Just like he had it. proudly there. Yeah, he had like the the. sub speaker in the boot going crazy. Everything was tuned up like he was. coming going to Notting Hill Carnival, yeah? The sound system was way more than. the car, right? Sounded crisp. So, I up. there, I'd slip him like. 50 pound to to get me up there, get me. back. And literally, I go up. I was. getting like two 250, 300 pound for a. for a PA, which was good money. I'm. like, "Wow, this is real money now. From.

selling chocolates to this kind of. money, I can buy this record. I can buy that.". And I go to the Coliseum um in Vauxhall, um the end, um and I started to Twice as. Nice was the the big big name at the. time. And I'd go out there singing What You're. Gonna Do. And I'd go on stage, and I was. this young 15-year-old kid. I was like. 16 at the time. Walked out. And I they the DJ even more like any DJ. could play cuz the the Artful Dodger, we. had this sort of agreement that if. Artful Dodger were with me performing,

we're doing a set together, we'd split. half the amount for the for the for the. fee. And if I was going off doing a. performance, then I would just take the. money. And if they did a a DJ set. somewhere, they'd take it. So, we just. had a nice little agreement going on. So, I go up there, and the DJ would you. say, "You ready? You ready?" I go, "Yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready.". And he'd be like, "Drop the funk, drop the bass, hit it.". And that's for the first time walking. out seeing it go off. I was just like, "This is mad." And before I even got to. sing, the guy they're spinning it up, and everyone's going, "Bo bo bo bo bo. ooh.". Which is where.

led to Bo Selecta, with Rewind. Why I. was saying that in the song. It's like, "Bo bo bo Selecta." That was the phrase. as a cultural reference for that music. And I think that that's where it kind of. just it it just it just was exponential. after that. It just went from What. You're Gonna Do, then Rewind was. starting to go do its thing. And people. were just losing their minds to that. song. Like I remember my first personal. from PA of that song, I wasn't sure if the crowd was feeling. it because it goes into this this. baseline in the chorus, which is very it.

feels like a halftime R&B record. It's. like So, it's like dum de dum. So, it's like re rewind. When I cross. over, Bo Selecta, re rewind. You just. got the baseline dum de dum. It's. halftime. You could just be slow jam. De. de de de de de de dum. And people And I saw people literally. they were standing like And it wasn't. like we're not feeling it, but it's like. we don't know what to do here. Yeah. Like cuz the the verse is making moves, yeah, on a dance floor. You got the. garage thing. It's cool. And then it.

goes dum de dum. Shh. De de de de And and people like. And then when it And that was his USP in. the end. Mhm. People were like, "Is there that tune. that does that halftime I don't know. what baseline thing, but it goes. slowed?". And it set the tone for the whole thing. That song there right there, still is like my baby. Cuz I felt it. when I walked home with my Sony Walkman. with my headphones on on my jacks going. and just like walking back like just. listening to it thinking, "I don't need. There's certain songs where I don't need. any feedback. I don't need anyone to.

tell me what they think about it, how. they feel. I know in my soul. this here. is the one." And it wasn't the one from. it's gonna go off in the club. It's just. gonna go off when I go back to my flat. I had a huge sub speaker that was. probably bigger than me, yeah, that I. had in the corner, bigger than most of. my room. I had to squeeze my bed out. almost to get it in. When I press play. on that, and it came through that. speaker, I was like, this I know I'm good. I got. the. the full.

uh feeling that I needed. So, from then. I was like, if this is the same for. anyone else, and they feel like this, then it's gonna clear. And it ended up. being a clear. And that is a a timeless. timeless record. I mean, I listened to. it before you came in here. So, I was. listening to it, and I was like, [ __ ]. it. This could have come out last week. You know what I mean? It feels like. that. Do you see what I mean? Like I. played it, and I was like, this could be. This would be a hit now. Do you know. what I mean? So, appreciate you. You know what I mean, though? 100. Yeah. It's that It's that. It's a. It's a It was a cultural record. It was. It feels very timeless. Like I did a. show the other day or even yes- last.

night, and I drop it in, and the millennials are going crazy for. it. The day ones are there going like. It's just like it's. It's one of those ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. what I mean? So, So, that leads you up to the to the. point where you start to release your. first solo single. Mhm. Fill me in. Yeah. Talk to me about that and that. whole process, because that went. straight to number one. Mhm. Um. From what you've said, I know it changed. your life, right? From going doing these. PAs in clubs to doing I think you did. Wembley three nights in a row or. something crazy crazy in a in the space.

of a couple of months as well. Yeah. It. I mean, it went like from like zero to. 100. Literally. That's why I was kind of like. Behind the scenes, funny enough, even. though I say zero to 100, there was a. lot of learning curve that I was. learning. So, doing doing the DJing, doing. performances in front of a a club a club. PA, or even before that when I was doing. my DJing stuff as an MC, when the the vinyl's skipping, and the. crowd are looking at you like, "Yo, what. And you've got to improvise quickly.". So, man's going into some kind of MC.

like Some of them ain't Some of them are. laughing. Some of them are holding the. mic. I hope they're trying to find. another piece of vinyl to put on cuz. this one's gonna keep skipping. My hope. is hope is when I arrive bo bo bo like. this, jump around and what I do this. crazy and everyone's just like, "Whoa.". Like and then I get it to mix somehow. perfectly, yeah? And I'm sweating, yeah, cuz I'm thinking. I nearly mashed the whole thing up. And. after people come up saying, "Craig, that was sick when you did that thing. How did you do that? Why are you. sweating so much?". It's It's not even hot in here. The air. conditioning is blasting. I was like, if. only you knew. But it it teed me up for. performances going forward. So, when we.

got to Fill Me In, I I can just remember something. happening when I was doing. There was a a club called Sound, I think. it was, on Leicester Square. And at this time now, Rewind had been. released. It had gone to number two. People didn't really know who I was. They knew the name, which was You know. what I mean? Like you can get See, that. was always the the using the name was. always like a like a tag DJ tag thing. Like you put your name DJ Khaled would. do it. It'd be like I'd be like, "Craig. David all over you." So, you knew who. was on the record just in case.

you you were confused, yeah? And then. that then became. sort of my intrinsic trademark thing. that I did throughout that Born to Do It. album. Um so, it'd just be like, "Craig. David, it's another one." Like all that. all that kind of stuff. Um. But yeah, I remember doing this a. performance I I'd had an interview in in. Capital FM, and I had to get across Leicester Square. to go and do this. performance of it in Sound, which. Capital were doing like radio. performances from there. I knew something had really changed when.

the security. There was a security guard, and he had. to put me up. I went there with them. just being calm. I went into Capital to. do the interview. The security guard had to put me up on. his shoulders to get me across Leicester. Square to sound because there were fans. going. crazy. Like. real I could for for a moment in that. period of time the the Justin Bieber. thing the. even before the Drake's I mean it's like. it was that fever pitch pitch where it. was just like Woah, BTS flex. It was.

like madness like pandemonium. I just. like ripping pulling like it was woah I. was thinking something's changed. And I went and did the performance and. then Fill Me In was was was building up. to be my first number one. And it was my first solo single that. went to number one and I and it was it. was a song that was released the same. day as as Destiny's Child Say My Name. So to have a number one in the charts. with a group that I'd grown up with. posters on my wall and I thinking this. is crazy. Say My Name Say My Name is one.

of my favorite. R&B songs of all time. So just for Fill Me In to do what it did. I knew something had changed. I I just. knew well it was quite obvious. And I was. on this wave. It was euphoric. There was. nothing I can I can put my finger on. It. was like it was it was everything but. more. It went from everything I touched. was turning to gold cuz. is. everyone wanted a piece of me and I was. doing acoustic performances which was to.

give a different feel for for Fill Me In. which I think was a really. clever uh move from at the at the time. my my record label um. was was half owned uh. by my my now manager uh Colin Lester. Uh. Telstar and Capital were involved. And. it it was just like we wanted to find. ways that it just didn't. exclude me from other radio stations and. make it feel like it wasn't just this. this radio thing. So we did performances like on on uh TFI. Fridays and on uh Jools Holland which.

were acoustic. And all of a sudden I. went from the rise in garage. UK garage uh to wow there's there's. actually a song here. He's writing. songs. And then the next songs I think kind of. reinforced that it wasn't just just. garage. And then from 7 Days and then to. get to Walking Away because at Walking. Away it gone clear at that point. Really. had gone clear like we were I was in. France in the every other week in Paris. doing. radio interviews and I'd been in doing a. whole of Scandinavia then I'd be in. Germany then we'd be getting a flight.

over to America and it just started the. whole. How old were you through this period? So. you start I mean Fill Me In was when you. were 18? Yeah so yeah so we were with. the album dropped the same year. So 2001. was when I went over to the States. So I. would have been like 19 like How does. how does an 18 19-year-old deal with. that? Cuz you know with all the. attention comes a lot of negative stuff. It's like unavoidable it comes with the. territory. Even with the like the the. fame and people clamoring on you and. stuff. It it changes your psychology. takes a shift or you find out who you.

really are right? They say that a lot. like you find out what your demons are. right? Cuz now you got the money you got. the power you got this admiration so. talk to me about like the the other side. of that that meteoric rise. I'd say. channeling of how I or tuning into how I. was at that time. I I say the it was euphoric. There was. the I was like woah everything's new. you're doing new places and. going to the best restaurants and your.

eyes are wide open you're on a plane to. this country and. I went I was at the House of Blues in in. in America doing we had three nights. there and the first night. and I and I tell this because it kind of. just to give context to how bizarre it. was. So remember I've come from your. flash I think I got like you over there. let me do a little mix for you over here. get a little half an hour in a set. Jump fast forward a few years later. House of Blues three nights in a row. first night Missy Elliott is has come to. to watch the show. I'm looking up.

thinking. this is crazy like. Woah. I can't stand the rain and then just. Missy Elliott just this this whole next. night I'm there I look up in the same. balcony Jennifer Lopez is there. I'm like wow. And I know it sounds like I'm name. dropping but I wanted to be to give. context I'm it just is this facts yeah. The. the the following night So I how am I. missing this? It was it was Missy and. Beyoncé. [ __ ] off. Then it was Jennifer. Lopez. Then on the last night I look out into.

the crowd and there's a lot of kind of. attention on one in particular gentleman. that's in the crowd who's singing and I. couldn't quite work out cuz the lights. were too too dark. So I got the the. front house to turn the lights up. And I. look in the crowd and I'm singing. Walking Away and I look over and I see. Stevie Wonder You're joking. Walking. Away and I'm just like. I mean what do you say at that point? I. would I would felt emotional. I felt cuz. it was Stevie Wonder from the record. collection from my my mom's stuff. Beyoncé I've got Destiny's Child on my. wall. I had Jennifer Lopez on my wall. Missy Elliott I'd even listening to.

before I come out. It was just like you can't make this up. It was almost like. yes you you're behind the scenes and bam. here it is. And then I got to meet him. at the end and he'd come with Quincy. Jones who we all know as the producer of. all of the huge hits from Michael. Jackson. And then Quincy said. you know like. NJ you know what it is he said it even. more like like coded. He was like. um he was like M he said it was like M's.

got your album like it's just like. vibing. I said who's M? Yeah you know MJ Michael. He's got like. he's got the album he loves Born to Do. It. He's been listening to gave it to. his friends. I was like I was just stop. this. If we can if this is if this is the. thing we've arrived we're good I've got. my fix there's not much more I could ask. for. But it was literally the start of. an incredible roller coaster ride which. let let the later years I think which we. get into it it harks back to that and I. can I can see. where the the cracks were starting.

because when to ask your question about. the other side of it it was so euphoric. and I was so swept up on it. It was like. getting on a surfboard and actually. being on the wave and you're you're. doing I don't know the I never use this. word but like the most gnarly-est like. you're the gnarly wave it's gnarly. You. know what I mean? You're the the the. there's a rip rip curl and it's going. crazy you're through the middle the eye. of it you're on it. You're not coming. off. But then there was a point. when the next album Slicker Than Your. Average dropped which was only like a. year or so later 2002.

had great success with What's Your. Flavor and and the the songs were. hitting but there was this. Born to Do It had now done 7 million. albums. Six times plat platinum. Oh. Six times platinum. It's it's it's. still still crazy. And then when you. said about the Wembley Arena three times. sold out. I'm standing outside the the. sign I've got it at my mom's house like. there's a picture of I'm like. you just can't make it up. It's it was. so beautiful and I'm so grateful for. those times. But I started to see from the Slicker.

Than Your Average time where. the record label would already start to. quote uh. I was going to do 10 11 million. obviously Slicker Than Your Average cuz. now the trajectory is going to be has to. go higher than this. So then when the album ended up coming. out. it ended up it selling 3.5 million. albums. And 3.5. million albums. Yeah at the time I. remember. that there was this feeling in the. company of.

Mhm right only 3.5. And I'm I'm I'm. impressionable I'm a young kid I don't. know I've just got into this the the. music business and you're telling me. that that's not a good thing cuz the. last time I checked the feeling I'm. getting is I just want 3.5 million. albums. Give 3.5 million to any artist. now. like we're good. We're we're you're So. I'd already started to buy into. there was some it was there was a. trajectory the trajectory was starting. to go in a different place that that. I wouldn't even know about figures. I.

didn't really care about the album. sales. I was just like I'm just happy to. be here and I'm making music and I'm. doing what I love my dream. But that was the first learning curve of. the the defining of defining of product. and defining of you being a commodity. that has to achieve something now that. you've set it up here whereas I thought. it got fun when you start to do it. I. thought it got more playful. No no it. got more serious and there's more cooks. in the kitchen and everyone's got an. opinion of the song you should be. releasing. Expectation. beyond.

Expectation the curse of all happiness. and joy and You must know this. You're just trying to equate what your. self-worth through so many other. people's expectation of you like you. said. So you I'm trying to say okay cool. well. we're here I'm a songwriter. I'd always. I'd always had a really great rapport. with my manager Colin Lester who's been. with me like for I've got I love the. conversations that we've we've had over. the years and and him even saying in. early doors. that I can't guarantee you success. I.

but I'll do everything in my power to to. protect you and keep you safe so you can. do your thing. And having those kind of. confidence in in in in the people that. you're working with is is is paramount. when you do start to get these the. feedback trickling through cuz I never. was like oh yeah what are today's. midweeks? I wasn't really too interested. in like finding out all the stats. because what happens is and today and. you can get this now and I say this to. any aspiring artist. who's putting music out now and you're. having success is literally just enjoy.

it fully be immersed in it because if. you start to check for what's going on. next week. your moment when you're supposed to have. the number one and you're enjoying life. you're already going to be able to see. by Tuesday Wednesday that your numbers. already showing that you're already. number three now. You've slipped off and. they're number one. So your moment of. glory was actually there was the curve. and at the point where you got the thing. which is the beautiful metal number one. or you're already not you're already. kind of on the decline. So. it's that I had to ride that for a few. more albums if I'm being honest to I was.

making songs and. they were connecting but if it was a. number four. in the charts, it wasn't number one like. it was before. I haven't got the same. amount of time that I had to to make. those songs. I've got I haven't got. enough. life really. All this those first albums. there is seminal because it's all your. life up until that point, right? And then after that, the expectation is. we need it on a deadline and we need it. this time and you've got hit this in the. mix of the fact you're doing a hundred. interviews and you're doing you're. flying all over the place but still.

you've got to conjure up that thing. I don't know any artists that that that. won't feel that and hats off and kudos. to anyone who is able to sustain that. but as a human being. I know that's a tall order for anyone to. be able to. to continuously do and you start to see. with any of the artists who we put in. from from the Amy Winehouses to the. Michael Jacksons to the Whitney Houstons. the height of success when it is like. woah like otherworldly.

There's so much of the the human part. that's being unmet that it it gets to. the point where breaking point and then. something happens be it's it's drug. addiction or if it it it it moves into. mental health issues and depression. which are all so real that no human can. vibrate at that level for that amount of. time and and I. I'm thankful for those moments that kind. of shaved off a little bit of the it. being all go go go because I think that. it kind of made me have to go back to a.

lot of things that were. like when my grandmother passed away. which is on the next album story goes. I was back in my heart again. It's like. I'm writing a song like Johnny about. bullying or I'm talking about let her go. a song I wrote from about my grandmother. to my mom to say look I know it's it's. crushing you lost your mom and I've lost. my grandma who's pretty much raised me. Here's a song and I want you to hear it. and those things it start to get back in. my heart. Cuz we can get heady and when. it starts to get heady you're out of. you're not in sync with this. This is.

the real brains and I've learned that. now. It's not it's not This is a is a. loyal servant to the heart but if you go. from here and then that the you can find. the. the ways to get to A to B but it has to. start from here, you know. I had a few words to say about one of my. sponsors on this podcast. As we all know. energy independence and living a little. greener has never been more important. for a better future. It's a it's a. journey I've been on over the last. couple of years that I've shared with. you sporadically ever since I sold my.

Range Rover Sport and bought an electric. bicycle and there's a lot of people out. there that listen to this podcast that. are looking to make that sustainable. switch in the things that run their. daily life whether it's their home, their car, their vehicles, whatever it. might be. So when a good friend of mine. at a company called Myenergi called. Jordan told me she was interested in. sponsoring this podcast, I jumped at the. opportunity. So for those of you that. don't know, Myenergi are a UK renewable. energy brand whose mission is to. increase the usage of green energy.

helping people like you and I to save. time and money when it comes to making. sustainable switches in our lives. So if. this resonates with you and you're the. type of person that's been looking or. thinking about going on your own. sustainability journey, I highly. recommend checking them out at. myenergi.com. And you described that journey as a as a. roller coaster. Mhm. So what at what. point did did that roller coaster start. heading down from that um you place you. describe as euphoria to a place where. you um weren't euphoric? Talk to talk to. me about the the down part of the roller.

coaster. I'd say. when I released. uh the Trust Me album in 2009 um. it it just felt there was. from where I'd started off with. very cultural records like Rewind and. Fill Me In which is why we talked. earlier how these songs you can play now. and they still seem to hit. When I when I look at 2009 and the Trust. Me album. I. I felt like I was starting to.

make music that was to please please. people and to tick boxes. It was like I. was There's a song called Top of the. Hill which is a lovely song. Um. I love the song but if you listen to. that song to how it started off, it was. very far removed. The type of music was. becoming very live and it wasn't as. wasn't as synth-based and then so. which I'd drawn all my inspirations from. as as a kid. And that's not to say that. you can't experiment but I knew at that. point I was entering into a new space. and then by the time I released that.

album which I was proud of I'm always. proud of the music I put out but. it wasn't connecting as well. Signed Sealed Delivered was. uh an album that I did just after that. which was I was out of a a deal at the. time um just because I'd run the tenure. of my my my deal. Um so it was kind of a. fresh start. I could look at different. record labels. Universal were were. excited so we did a deal with Universal. then I was put out this album called. Signed Sealed Delivered which was an a. covers album.

And I was singing like Dock of the Bay. and the title song Signed Sealed. Delivered from Stevie. But verbatim like the originals. It. wasn't some chopped and screwed. It. wasn't an R&B version. It wasn't a. garage thing. It wasn't like your It was. like. the same song. The same song and I felt. like it was time that I needed to just. sort of check myself and just be like. are you getting the fun out of this like. you used to? Do you want to continue. making music like this? And thankfully the the the the world.

always the universe always sort of. mirrors everything that you're going. through so it mirrors your state of play. where you are. So I always felt that. I was if the feeling I was getting was. being mirrored back I'm not quite. feeling this. So the world says cool, I'll give you more of you're not quite. feeling this in your circumstances that. happen around you. Whereas when I was. the kid growing up making the first. album, I was feeling everything. I was. feeling the song on the way home from. the studio. I was feeling it on my sub. speaker at home. I was feeling those. rides up in the car to do the. performance. It was feeling. Mhm.

And now I check in with that deeply. because I know that anytime I'm not. feeling it. act from that not from the head saying. well I know Seal had a big covers album. at the time. I think that was a good. reference point. He had a huge covers. album was doing. serious numbers and that was the. sentiment that Universal were were. presenting like do a covers record. No brainer you can sing these songs. Motown going to be good. It's a soul. thing and then off springboard off the. back of that with your own album. That.

was the the play. It was never really worked out that way. cuz it it didn't really work out that as. an album. It didn't hit the way it did. and there was no. next album that came from off the back. of that. There was a period of time. where I was like I was out of the scene. for a second. And what and what did you. do then? This is when you moved to. Miami? So I was in Yeah. So I was in I. was in Miami from. 2010. So it was like about a year after. that album. And I was there for about five, six. years. For the first two, three years. the best time.

probably of my life being out there. And anything and everything that you. could possibly think of Miami being and. what it was representing. But the latter period of that period. that time. was where something was ringing inside. of me of. you're in the wrong place. And this is what intuition is. Very. quiet. And it and it's it's it's it it. it it creeps up and it's just and that. it's that not even nagging. It's like. you hear it and you just don't want to. hear it. I want to. it's it's so it all looks great over. here. You know what I mean? It looks so. it looks so.

aesthetically pleasing from the You know. what I mean? Like the car and the the. apartment and the parties and the women. and that just it's like the parties that. were just like every day of the week. something going on. Music isn't really. getting recorded now. because the voice is is just destroyed. from like shouting in a club and doing. the nonsense. So music's getting pushed to the side. All these fancy toys and the vibe's. starting to become more important. You. know what I mean? It's like that. uh my balance of of actual supply and.

demand of music that got me there was. way off. I was literally creating hardly. anything. Is there shades of like you. you going up on this trajectory when you. were like a younger man 18, 19, etc. and. then going into this place where you. almost abandoned your like your essence. and your roots and then you that kind of. culminates in you making this covers. album which is almost it's quite it's. almost a bit of a metaphor because then. you were really being someone else like. being doing cover albums is by. definition you're covering other. people's music in their own style. And. then almost this um. this period in Miami where you get into.

partying is kind of seems like a bit of. a distraction maybe or whatever trying. to explore trying to get some other. pleasure from another type of life. Yeah. And then kind of going back to. your your roots in a way where you all. of that you'd tasted the [ __ ] Yes. You'd had the Don Perignon. You know you. and you and that wasn't it. So now you. go back and ask yourself. what is it? What is it? And and then it. seems like with TS5 you you created. a new kind of expression of who Craig. David is Yes. and maybe who you had lost. sight of over the years because of all.

these temptations and your own success. Isn't that the truth? It's when you. start to realize that actually going. back to the things that. and it's all back in childhood. This is. the thing. When I when I tune in it's. like the decks and the DJ and the. mixtapes. That was all I was trying to do when I. was doing the TS5 house party. I just. wanted to feel that again like I'm. mixing now with my little Pioneer DJ set. up and I'm on the microphone being the. host with the mostest and. I just want everyone to feel that. feeling that I got into the whole thing.

for and If someone doesn't know what TS5. is, can you explain just give it an. overview of what exactly what it is? Yeah, so TS5 is like um. it's. when I the performance now from the. house party that it was um is I'm able. to cuz I used to DJ when I first started. off as we spoken about before and I was. at that point then DJ Fade. So I I. learned all my skills on on using vinyl. and Technics 1210s. The TS5 set is the. name came from the the apartment.

in Miami and it's a show where I'm able. to DJ and mix other people's records as. much as drop my ones in. and I will come out to come out of my my. DJ booth and sing and do a performance. in a way for me that is it is giving me. all the feels I got from when I was a DJ. but also I can do the performances and. drop some gems in there at the same. time. Like I can play a TLC No Scrubs or. I can play Say My Name and then go into. Fill Me In. I just love it and. taking that to a pool party as I did in. Ibiza.

I think I was trying to set the tone of. like this isn't a DJ set where I can get. away with. playing some songs, doing a few shots of. tequila with my mates and get paid for. it and go home. I just can't. Like I get. that can work in certain and I have no. judgment. It's do your thing. But for me. as a performer. mixing the tunes is like it's so easy. now like with vinyl it was like I was. that was a mission but like now. So I. can mix the tunes that's nothing but to. come out of the booth, perform, do an MC.

thing and hit the marker back inside to. get to the next song. that for me I I pride myself on and it's. given me a whole new lease of life for. for festivals. So that's really what TS5. is. And it's become a phenomenal brand. phenomenal brand for for for music. partying and it's it's funny because. it's such an. it's it's quite rare that you have. someone that has that kind of skill. stack that all of all those different. pieces that can do that. I think that's. probably why it's been such a such a hit. is because you rarely see someone who. can drop their own records, who can. sing, who can perform but then who can.

also DJ. It's like a really interesting. new thing. Totally. I I felt I felt it. in that got a little touch of it in the. party when I was in in my house parties. I mean and I didn't even start to put. See this is. it's beautiful when you look back at the. puzzle pieces when the picture starts to. become a little bit more clearer as you. put okay that puzzle that piece there. meant you needed that piece to happen. for this one to happen. So when I was performing in my house I. wasn't actually performing any of my own. songs at all. Cuz I just felt like I don't want to. start dropping my own songs in the.

middle of the thing. And then I have people come over and be. like bro drop that Fill Me In. Drop. Rewind. One girl came over said. drop 7 Days and I was like nah. She goes. please it's my favorite song and I was. like and then I looked I was like maybe. I might do a verse just one one little. piece of the verse. And it started. me the idea of of putting a couple of my. songs in. And then we started to record. the set I started to record the set and. put it on SoundCloud so people could. listen to it after cuz people were like. oh where can I get I'd love to listen to. it back to that set. Or we did sing. happy birthday to someone and it was a.

moment that they wanted to hear again no. one caught it and I was like well let me. capture this now. And that was actually. where it flipped back into mixtape land. that I then got my manager took it into. Kiss. Kiss originally were like we can. air this put it out as a as a show and. then it went on to Capital Capital aired. it as well on Capital Xtra. So all of a. sudden it was like it's gone from a. house party to a thing. And then we did. a couple of early shows one uh two shows. in Hackney. to see if this house party would. translate into an actual thing. And when.

I saw people it going off in the same. way I thought wow this isn't just a. Miami thing you know it's not just in my. house it's actually people connecting. with it. And since then I guess. Glastonbury was probably the the one of. the pinnacle of it because you're there. in the front of a crowd who are there. for a myriad of different artists. and you're there performing a band set. and then go into a DJ set and it's to. see it going off I was like this is my. people from Miami who were early doors. when we first did that party which was. like nine of us just there messing about.

having a couple of shots with playing. off iTunes. To Glastonbury. To. Glastonbury that was like it was crazy. So it just. it's always there the piece is always. there but time. sometimes you just need to time and. patience in this. It's so interesting. looking at your story as as like an. outsider and watching that journey of. you being this like. huge mega star then the the the downside. of the roller coaster as you describe it. and then watching you over the last like. five six seven eight years. come back out with as almost like this. completely new character but with a.

proposition that's as. resonant as what you used to do a very. very different proposition. But you like. again from my like not really paying. attention to what's going on in the. world because I'm not really that into. pop culture. You know I used to listen to my Walkman. and then. there was a gap and then you're back in. again where everyone's talking about. Craig David again but for a completely. different proposition but it appears to. be a completely different proposition. That's not common or easy. The the. question I actually have for you is. because it's a roller coaster.

your mind goes on the roller coaster as. well and this kind of brings me into to. the the topic of mental health. Yeah. Be honest with me. What was the the. mental health journey throughout that. whole period of time? Do you know. where I sit in. for a long period of time I I guess that. those um. those words of of of man up or. or. you you just just just just just just. just just just roll with it. Just roll.

with it. Just man up. Is the most amount of nonsense. that I've ever heard cuz it's that in of. itself is what's it's what's caused. the crazy suicide rates that we see. especially in in men and the way in. which it's spiraling out of control cuz. it's like keep it inside, repress it, put it under the carpet, don't talk. about it. That's what we do. That alpha way and. thankfully. and this is goes back to my parents my. grandma and my my my mom in particular. it was all about open and conversation. and then and speaking and have have open.

conversation and be able to get it out. and have a convo. And I think that there was periods where. I just I ride rode through it and I. think Miami was kind of just. was a was a break from a lot of things. and me being out there and being in a. different climate different. culture enjoying those things but that. still wasn't fulfilling what I was. really looking for. What I really wanted. was connection and relationship in a way. that I experienced. almost in those kind of early doors.

before the first album and at the when. it hit. So the roller coaster ride is. you find character in your lows. 100% you you ask the questions the real. questions do you really want to do this? Are you really about this? And I am a. musician through and through. Um and I love it but the. the the. depression is real. Mental health in the in the in the. multitude and myriad of different ways. that that can come about is real and. it's the and it's something that.

you can only half the battle I've always. I've spoken about that you it's it's. talking to it's being able to express. that to someone you can confide in and. even if it's not someone you can confide. it in. a phone line that you can pick up and. just speak to someone you don't know. Maybe in some ways that it can be even. better you can just go I've got it off. my chest and they're giving you they're. hearing you they see you. But that's only half the battle the rest. is then a journey of they call it in. more spiritual circles dark night of the. soul of going through into a place where. you're going to uncover everything that. was put under that carpet.

having to bring it to the light and. having to. bring it up and work through it to find. a place where do you pull the carpet up. and all the dust goes up everywhere and. then you start to see where it lands you. start to say okay this was a story that. I was telling myself the things I was. defining myself of my self worth through. how I looked and the approval of others. this is authority figures feeling like. they had something over me the power I. had when I was the entrepreneur selling. chocolates and and making the songs. that's really you who I've always been.

but I had the abandon you used that. earlier abandon yourself. When that. starts to happen. it can spiral out of control and I had. injuries and and physical injuries. through all the training and stuff that. I did as well. that spiraled me into different depths. of depression where I was just like wow. I've never experienced this. When things. happen that you've never they they. cumulatively build up. but then. there's something that breaks it that. snaps it and at that point it just feels. like wow and you're trying to.

you're in free fall. That's the feeling. I feel with depression. I've experienced. that I know how it is and I haven't. really been as vocal I guess as as today. about like that and I feel it's. necessary because it's. I don't want to be the one who's telling. the story. I want to be so authentic and. I want to open up like you said you. spoke about things that you needed to. get off your chest and let people know. the other side of all this because in. that is where all the the beauty and. empathy really is and people connect and. they say oh what So you went through. that. Ah so it isn't this thing that.

only me and all of a sudden we're all. connected and I'm thinking yes. And then. I'm I'm inspired by people who kind of. wear the heart on their sleeves now. So. I feel like it was a combination of a. lot of those things building up to being. in the wrong place being away from my. family missing being able to just make. music in the way I did coming back to. the UK and then as soon as I did that. and I felt I felt my first huge hug when. I walked in and saw Big Narstie.

Corrupter Fam. uh Mr. Jam. uh Stormzy was in the building Shola Ama. and I did a. this this one extra performance which. was really I was going to rock up and. vibe Fill Me In. And I ended up singing it over Where Are. You Now the the Justin Bieber Diplo. Skrillex instrumental. There was this moment of love I felt. Big Narstie gave me a hug first when I. came in wearing his heart on his sleeve. boo you man is my tune. Oh my god Craig. Boo you man is my song. And I'm like. wow. Like really wearing his heart on.

his sleeve. And then sing this song sing Fill Me In. as a remix vibe over this instrumental. and it went so viral. that I'm looking on my phone and I'm. seeing Justin Bieber like saying like. wow that's amazing that you need to. check it 45 minutes into the show. Then. I'm seeing Skrillex on the on my. timeline. I'm seeing Diplo on the. timeline. I'm just thinking something's. happened. But it was more than just. it needed me to play my part and get. back home and get and go through that.

Miami phase of what that was all about. I I I. I I find it really interesting that. that's the first So, is was that the. that Miami phase the first phase in your. life where you encountered what you. believe to be like depressive symptoms, where you fell fell fell into a. depression? In the in the latter stages. Of Miami? Yeah, cuz I got I got injured. out there. My my back went like in like. in my lower back. And I never felt a pain like that in my. life. Like I felt aches and pains of of. training incidents and different things. I've had like Anyone who's had like a a.

blowout in the back. But this one in particular was just like. it was a feeling that just wouldn't give. up. So, I was my movement patterns was. went from, you know, you're 100% you're. doing the last kind of leg leg press and. and it's all these it's deadlifts. And I've got respect for deadlift. Amazing move. But when you're if your. back goes on one of those, I promise you will there's a feeling. that you have which is like when your. hands in like 240 volts in the wall that.

it's just it's different. It like it's. it's a nerve pain which is not like an. ache or like or it feels a bit sore like. you got DOMS from doing too many kind of. like. So, when it went, I was like. I never felt anything quite like this. And it made me have to check myself in a. whole different way for the fact that. every movement I did felt like I was. getting that same spasm. So, it wasn't. just like one spasm. It wasn't like, "Okay, we've locked up. We're good.". At that point you know where you're at. I've had those before. We we all had I.

think in our lives we have a sporadic. moment where you have a thing. This was now it's happening now it's. happening now it's happening now like it. it was continuous nerve spasm. I was. like. it was a spiral for me. It was it was a. point where I had dark thoughts. I was. just like, "I can't live my life like. this." So, I understood really at that. point the first time depression hit me. and I couldn't reframe it as being. positive. I couldn't say this is put a. positive spin on it. There was nothing. So, I. had the mental thing. Mhm. So, I was. getting I kind of signed up for a for a.

good uh. for to to be someone who you have to. experience certain things to be able to. speak on it. And I get that now. So, it's like, "Okay, well if you come here. to to to on mission to do this, you're. going to have to feel pain physically, you're going to have to feel heartbreak, you're going to have to feel anxiety and. abandonment of of of your body. You're. you're going to have to feel all these. things.". And then I hope that you get to a point. where you get the memo, which I've now. fully understood the memo.

I don't need to be doing deadlifts and I. don't need to be training like the way I. trained before. I can stay healthy. And. more importantly, what people enjoyed. from me. was music that it never had changed and. I realized that from when I came back to. London. It was like people just want to hear. music and they were cool. They were just. happy and this version of me and I love. all the other versions cuz they all. played a part. This isn't a judgment. thing like, "Oh yeah, well that We. always tend to be like, yeah, an album. comes out you're like, yeah, it's no. good. You know, this is the one." No, they all played a part to me sitting.

here today with you and being able to. break down things and unpack things and. as a. as a. as a man now to be open enough to say I. know what depression feels like. I speak. differently on things now and the more I. can open up and speak on. the pain that I felt. And that back. thing ran for years. It was like a. couple years three three years I was. like. And even to I mean even to this day I. put my hands up. I'm still working out. like, do you know what I mean? We do we. do surgery? Do we not? Do we like I'm.

it's it's dialed down incredibly. But it. was a defining moment. It's pivotal to. me and it just was like, "Whoa.". And like I said, depression you'll have dark thoughts. Dark thoughts. You'll have you'll start. having thoughts that you're like if this. pain can continuously goes on like this. then. I I can't. It it sounds crazy for me even saying. this cuz I'm like you've always been the. nicest guy and you're so positive and. you like, "How could it" But I was like, "I just can't live like that. I can't.

live like this." So, you start not think. about ways that you would. say. I'm lose I'm take your life or to to dip. out. But it's you start having thoughts. of. something has to happen. Like this this. pain is intolerable. Like I can't even. style it out. Like there's nothing for. it. And I think that that. when it started to dial down and we've. done it from injections and all. different kind of things conservatively. and strengthening the the the multifidus. and the paraspinals and the glutes. I. know my body so well now. It got me back.

into my body. More importantly, I. started to understand the mechanics of. how my body works. And every listen to. things. You know, you get a little ache. and a pain or you get a little thing. Tell tell sign that's 10 years ago you. got a blowout and then it blows out. again and you didn't listen. You keep. going. All it does it just amps up the. sound till you get the one You got the. memo now? Okay, cool. Now you got the. memo. That's how the universe works. So, I'm really in tune with my body. When it. starts telling me stuff, I'm like, "I. need to check for this early." Because I. don't want that five-year thing and the.

thing's going to let me know the hard. way. All right, man. It's dialed down. Thank God. But all part of the plan. Because it's put me in a place where I. can physically go out there and do my. shows like I love. I can go out there. and perform like I love. I don't need to. be putting the extra work in in a gym to. to satisfy anything that's I can go. swimming. I can move my body. And I and. I can. The things I can dial it up and we can. get whatever we're. we're looking for. But who is it for? It's not for anyone anymore. I don't. need that. But you are.

back. You're back in the UK now? Back in. the UK. Back in the UK. Um and you said. this you said this quote. You said, "To. a lot of people I'm at my destination. I've arrived. I'm back. But no, I'm. still on my journey. Mhm. And I'm not. taking my foot off the gas.". Now that that phrase foot on the gas. Mhm. right? It kind of sounds it has hints of a. former Craig. Yeah, when you even said. foot off the gas yeah. I I don't know what day I was saying. that or what I was feeling it. Yeah.

Even when you said it to me then, I knew. exactly as you were going to say like, "What's this foot on the gas thing?" Cuz. that would suggest that you're. headstrong, running to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I I get the sentiment but then. also the the phrase the terminology is a. little bit It's it's troubling, right? Yeah, yeah. It's like we're not. take the foot off the gas. Just relax. Then then save it for the for the save. your petrol. Just just calm yourself. yeah. Stay Sometimes staying still. weirdly enough is actually the one. I. recognize when I stay still and the. world moves.

It's like, "Wow." Pandemic. Yeah. That I've got to say had for for. everything in the in the the pain it. caused and. people who lost their lives and families. that were. that were. suffering so deeply and still are. Um. when you look at just how it was a pause. on the whole world and it just had. people. recognizing that when they had to. relinquish control cuz it got to a point. where I can't control this. So, okay, break open the Monopoly board. Let's. let's let's have a game then.

All of a sudden back into kid back into. the child again. The child was seen. Play started to happen. And as much as. like we we we all like to say that we. need to be the thing of doing doing. doing. But sometimes doing nothing. Don't don't don't think that the world. isn't working for you behind the scenes. here when you're doing nothing like. having a good night's sleep, resting. Trust me, for all the working out in the. gym and all those kind of things, the. rest was the actual thing where all the. growth happened. So, why would that be. no different for the way that we are.

when Let me let me sleep on this. Let me. slow down. And. man, it's it's a blessing to see someone. as inspired and conscious as you putting. it out there and allowing people like. myself to come through, speak our truth, have people have a platform to speak and. feel open and not feel like they're. boxed in having to kind of Got to do me. the training here. I have to be like. that. Open out. Because that's what we. need. We've done that. The old. patriarchal system is crashing down. It's not working anymore. No one wants. the. divide and conquer and fight. This ain't.

going to work. We want love. We want a. heart-based relationship. So, That. failed us, right? We tried that and it. failed us. It failed it failed deeply, man. Yeah. It really did. And as we look. forward, you've got this album coming. out which I'm really excited about. called 22. Mhm. And it's coming out on. the 24th of June this year. Talk to me, you know, throughout this. it's been 22 years as well since you. your first. First album was it? first album. So, 22 years later. your your album 22 comes out. What can I.

expect from this? What what is the. inspiration? What is the the art, the. creativity, the pain? What is the What. is What is it? Okay, so we know Born to. Do It was was the most my baby. It broke. out everything for me. It was the moment. where everything I built up until that. point. It was me getting the the golden. ticket. Let's say it's the golden. ticket. We're entering into the the. chocolate factory now. Excited. But not. the ending, right? Then I had to go. through life a little and now I'm. landing at this place in my life where. and during the pandemic gave me a lot of.

time to write a lot of songs. I got a. studio at home. So, I just I was writing. a lot of songs and I had no rush. It. felt like how I was when I made my first. album. If I wanted to do a verse today, cool. If not, I'm going to go downstairs. to the kitchen and maybe I'll throw on a. movie and maybe I'll come back up. I was grateful that I had that and. privileged to be able to do that and to. to make home a. as productive as I wanted it to be or as. relaxed as I wanted it to be. It feels like it has all the It has all. the feels. It feels like it has all the. feels of.

my first album Born to Do It. I feel. like the kid again. And I keep using the. word feel because I think that's the. most important. That's my that's the. only thing I can really gauge thing. How. am I feeling? I've got big sub speaker. in my in my new in my in my home in in. in in London. Again? Same thing. Literally, I got to I literally just. patterned the same thing with a couple. of blue lights to make it look just look. a little bit like I was a 2.0 version of. the same, but same big speaker. I can. play it loud. I've had people come over. and I've said, "You You need to. understand what bass is, like really.".

Cuz they think they know what bass is. They got a little the Sonos system and. it's all cool, they've got a little. couple subs. No, no, no, no, no. Listen. to this and you get that. and it's it's different. So, I feel like. I've got the R&B on there. I've got the the garage on there. I've. got songs that I feel that we've a. beautiful. journey of where I'm at now. I feel I'm. speaking on things that. is coming from a place where I can still. have the lingo and the languaging that. doesn't set you off as being like, "Oh, you you were like in the 2000s and. you're.

where no one says that anymore. No one's. saying tipsy in the in the club anymore. No one's even really saying getting wavy. anymore. That was like a bit a couple. years back. You know what I mean? What's. the new So, working with young artists, working with. young fresh songwriters, they'll give me. languaging that allows me to get my. messaging across, but in a way that it. can get the most broadest kind of reach. I just feel like we've. Yeah, like I don't want to gas it. because it feels like there we are. It. does that, right? Yeah, it's just it feels really true to.

where I'm at right now and I've got I. listen to it and I'm excited to listen. back to this album and as I have done. since really the following my intuition. album. Since I came back, 2016 did that. one, Time Is Now and this one. But this. one feels like with that I'm a journey. man. That's the the cover album cover is. me on a journey and I feel like that. journey man of just 22 years in now. And. as I said to the Willy Wonka element, I. feel like Charlie who's now going. through the test. He got a little caught up, which if you.

clock it, it was his grandpa who kind of. got him to take that fizzy. fizzy. lifting drink and he started to go up. into the thing. It wasn't really. Charlie. He was calm. He was actually. being the good one of course. It was his. granddad that kind of got him, right? To. get to the end. where the Everlasting Gobstopper where. he has a choice to sell himself out, go. sell it for 50,000 pounds I think to the. the competitor chocolate maker of. Slugworth or does he go back and put it. back on Willy Wonka's desk and do the. right thing knowing he's going away with.

nothing? I feel like I'm at that place where I'm. in I'm creating an album. and I'm willing to. I'm willing to trade in all of the. things that I up until this point this. pretense that I maybe I had behind the. scene that people didn't really know. There's always getting 80% of me, but. there was a 20% and that's enough or 10%. of me that's not is enough. It's like. the. the princess and the pea. Trust me, it's. underneath there and it will keep. getting you. It's like the thorn in the. foot. It's like it doesn't have to be. big. It's not some big drama, but it's. getting you, right?

I want to pull the thorn out. I want to. find the pea, all right? I want to I. want to say I want to sleep on my night. in my mattress where I'm not feeling. slightly uncomfortable cuz I know. there's something underneath there. There's there's a needle in a haystack. and I don't want I know it's in there. You know, we've got to find it. I'm at. that stage where I'm dropping this album. that I feel I've put the Everlasting. Gobstopper back and I have no idea if. Willy Wonka's going to turn around and. say, "Charlie, you did it. I knew you would. do it. I had to test you. I had to test. you." It's like, "What? What? The.

chocolate? No, more than the chocolate.". "What is it?" "You got the whole. chocolate factory. You got the whole. chocolate factory and his family can. move in and everyone can be part of it.". And that's how I'm feeling now. Everyone. can be part of this. This is This is. different now. So, I'm excited, man. I'm. excited. And you know what? I'm I'm I. was excited before, but hearing your. description of it and feeling your. energy about where this is coming from. and it's coming from that place of like. your intuition, your wisdom and your. maturity and over those 22 years all of. that unbelievable twisting journey that. you've been on to create a record now um.

which income like which sort of collects. all of that wisdom and all of that. emotion and truth and pain and. experience is is really something to be. um. excited about as a as a Craig David fan. So, thank you for for giving us another. project. I've not heard it yet. They. wouldn't they wouldn't let me hear it, but I but I can't. I'll listen Do you know what? On the. real like not just the cuz I always feel. like these these moments have always. more than like you've done. you've done your your moment together,

but I just feel there's a friendship. building here anyway. So, I'll. we'll we'll hook up and I'll I'll play. the album. We'll get some food and we'll. vibe. So, it's calm. You'll be well. ahead of the game. No, do you know from. the minute you walked in the door I felt. like I'd known you a long time and. that's a credit to you cuz I meet a lot. of people here, right? So, sometimes. people come in and maybe they're a. little bit colder and like that, you. know, there's a lot of things going on. in their lives which I'm unaware of. So, I've got to have empathy for that, but. the minute you walked in through the. door it was like you were my brother and. it was like we'd known each other for a. long time and that's that's honestly. it's a credit to you. So, look, thank. you. Thank you so much for your time. We.

have a closing tradition on this podcast. which is the previous guest writes and. the next guest a question. So, I'm going. and I don't get to see what it is until. I open the book. Nice. Nice. So, the previous and this is a very good. one in fact, very fitting. The previous. guest wrote, "If you could whisper in. the ear of your 14-year-old self, what. would you whisper?" That's good. That's. good. That's good. Listen, Craig. I know this might freak you out cuz.

you're hearing a voice in your ear right. now, but trust me, I'm I'm a I'm a. little older version of you and. everything you're about to do right now. is going to change your life in the most. beautiful way and I want you just to. enjoy every moment and know that there. will be times that will be quite hard, but know that I'm here. Know that I'm. always there holding your hand along the. way and I promise you that once you get. through them, the feeling you will have will be like. the euphoria you are just about to.

experience in a couple years time. So, get ready and trust me, the crowd are. going to go off when they hear something. soon, okay? Love to you, my man. All. right. It was like a prayer. Thank you so much, Craig. Good to see. you. My pleasure. Thanks. Honestly, it's a huge honor and. your vulnerability and openness you. don't know. You won't ever get to see. the impact it has. I probably will. I'll. get the comments and the messages and. you will as well, but the the impact of. you being being self-aware enough and. and man enough to be vulnerable I think.

is is really something which I I applaud. you for because you just don't really. you know, the impact you're going to. have on a lot of young men specifically. is is profound and yeah, long-lasting. So, thank you, brother. Thank you. It's. mutual, man. Very genuine. Appreciate. Thank you.