Chris Kamara: The Untold Heartbreaking Story Of A Football Legend!

every day i wake up the first thing i. think. am i going to be able to talk today. there's been a red card but for who. chris tamara. i don't know jeff hazard one of. britain's best love football pundits. it's been a great job. unbelievable jeff what a cracking game. there's a young black kid thinking that. one day i'll play four middles. middlesbrough and four leads ambition.

and dream. achieved. the story of your mother i found very. difficult to read it was difficult in. those days. men. were physical towards women i made the. mistake. of. telling my dad on his deathbed that it. was wrong. i should have kept it to myself. [Music]. why.

for someone that has never experienced. apraxia. what does it feel like for you and your. head. i feel a fraud now in terms of. broadcasting you feel a fraud. i. was gonna quit everything. without further ado i'm stephen bartlett. and this is the diary of a ceo i hope.

nobody's listening but if you are then. please keep this to yourself. [Music]. chris. what do i need to know about. your earliest years to understand. the man that you are today. whoa i don't know really um. my childhood is slightly clouded um.

so. i wouldn't change anything because you. can't change the. course of history but. life was difficult growing up very. difficult um. so yeah. i wouldn't change anything to be honest. when you say clouded. well good days bad days we had uh. terrible racism at the time uh when i.

was growing up i was born in 57. so in the 60s it wasn't good we were the. only black family on our estate. so anything happened and the police. would come knocking on our door take out. that away and you'd have to get cleared. and. come home and the whole process would. start again it's that black family there. who are causing all the problems.

and. occasionally uh not all the time. my dad. were like to bet. so he would. on a thursday he when he got paid they. got paid in cash and then brown. envelopes. would occasionally go to the bookies and. so. we'd end up. you know struggling for food so it's. clouded in those ways.

i'm looking through those clouds now but. you know. uh. thinking it didn't do me any harm but it. happened you know. your mother and your father's. relationship. uh. mum was the. most loyal wife you could ever have. absolutely even if her and dad. and arguments are fights or whatever. she would. venemently stick up for him you know.

when anybody called him you know. the n-word was vibrant back in those. days. and you know i hear these stories now. that. it's impossible to understand. uh. racism if you're not black it's not true. it's totally not true. my mom got colder and lower. throughout. you know the 60s when i was aware of it.

uh and she came through it so she knew. exactly what racism was about. your father was from sierra leone yeah. and your mother was from. middle flow middlesbrough yeah. people don't always think about that. they don't think about how the. in in that context because my mother's. from nigeria and my dad's from coventry. so i'm. you know and. what my.

dad went through as well because his. wife was black. um is often not spoken about but often. the the partner. carries the weight and the the um. the insults all the same. i i was reading through your story about. how your mother would also on thursday. she would walk up to 10 miles. to go and get your dad's. pay packet yeah through fear that he. might spend it yeah she had to and so it.

became a ritual in the end she would do. it all the time in the end when we were. older as kids she didn't have to carry. us to. the uh workplace which was 10 miles away. uh. a brown journey and. so. she they ended up she would walk to meet. dad and they would go off into town. together you know and that became the. norm.

did your dad ever show the. impact or the consequences of the way he. was being treated like an outsider in a. country where he people were telling him. he didn't belong. uh. to us as kids did you ever see the. impact of him emotionally. did it manifest itself in drinking or. was there ever a sign that it was. impacting him uh he told us often enough. he'd been involved in. fights uh. back then fist fights you know that was.

the norm you know he had to stand up and. be counted but he was always the one. arrested in those fighting situation. um but he. he had this thing and he drove it into. me and my brother don't ever. react you know i might be reacting. but whatever you do don't react you know. take it on the chin.

and ride through it. you'll get through it that way it's been. harder for me. and i'm doing this for you so. yeah you'll benefit. and money. you know the other thing that i read. that i found i found really difficult to. read was the story of your. your mother. when. your dad's gambling. problems. were very difficult your mother would.

and you didn't have money your mother. would go around to other houses in the. street and knock on the doors and ask. for bread or anything or money that's. how it had to be you know if you've got. tuesday and wednesday to come. on a monday and you haven't got food and. milk and until dad gets paid on thursday. she'd go and borrow. money or milk or bread. from the neighbors she had to she got.

turned away more often than not but she. persevered she had to she had to look. after her kids. how did you feel amongst that time see. what agu at this point five six seven. eight. um. well yeah. it wasn't all the time you know it was. occasional so. yeah i would say. from eight-year-old i became aware of it. more uh.

i know it's eight because i had to light. a cold fire at eight years of age. can you imagine you know i can imagine. asking my boys. to get wood and paper and matches and. then light the paper and then once the. wood gets going put the coal on top at. eight years age yeah yeah. [Music]. spooky yeah. you were asked to do that to heat the.

home yeah. they we didn't have sensual heating he. had a fire coal fire that was all yeah. you had the. oven in the. back of the house in the kitchen so. you'd put the. gas on to heat the kitchen when it was. really cold but the main source of heat. and the hot water was the fire. was there was there a lot of love in. your home. uh.

yeah i would say intimately yeah yeah. yeah you know when i look back now. um. i would change anything even though. there are aspects that i'd like to. change. one or two one or two things you know. what. the thing i want don't want to do is. is.

destroy. the. person who my dad is for my grandkids. but it was difficult in those days you. know. men. were physical towards women. uh so yeah. yeah uh difficult yeah. i sat here not so long ago with alex. scott. the the um football presenter. broadcasting yeah i worked with alex at. sky.

yeah her book comes out in 10 days time. in the book i was reading about how um. she's never spoken about it before. publicly but. she would come home and watch her father. beating her up her mother. constantly. and the mark that left on her as a young. child having to witness that kind of. violence in the home. and it's not really talked about enough. and it's funny the reason why i bring. that up is because. she's also grappling with the same um. fear of.

tarnishing her father's. life. yeah. yeah but it was done i presume. my dad grew up with it. and so you thought it was okay. for him to do it but like i say. you know. my kids will probably listen to this and. you know i don't want to say too much on. it is there a mixture of emotions around. it because that's what i observed in.

alex as well was there's this like. you look at someone in your life whether. it's a parent or someone you love and. you say that behavior was wrong. but at the same time. i i love you you're still my father. and it's you know that that balancing. act of like should i hate this person. should you never say. yeah. i made the mistake. of. telling my dad on my death on his. deathbed. uh. that it was wrong.

and he. he. saw like wouldn't accept that he'd done. what he'd done so. you know. why does that make you emotional. well. i should have kept it to myself. why. why wait until he's nearly dead.

to say something i'm a grown man in this. time. your mother. yes. puts a smile on your face yeah of course. um what role has she played in making. you the man you are today. um. she was everything. you could want in a mom.

she would do anything for me. um she did. my dad never saw my school report from. the age of five until i left school at. 16. she protected me that way and so yeah. but not only that you know. my mums are great and. she looked after the family um.

as good as she possibly could and. you know. she was my world. and at that age what was your what were. your dreams. if i'd asked you the question what do. you want to be when you grow up yeah. footballer yeah no danger. playing for middlesbrough initially and. then. when i saw leads on back to the day. around there may sounds. boring all leads yeah ambition to play.

for borah dream to play for leagues so. footballer nothing else tunnel vision. yeah. why. football what was it doing for you oh. everything yeah i used to play. on the field near. our house. with again squirrel men from the age of. 12. and i wasn't bad you know and they would. try to kick lumps out of this little kid.

who was embarrassing him so. yeah it stood me in good stead. when i played against men at 16. i couldn't look after myself. eventually you um you end up going and. doing a couple of months in the army. yeah the navy. yeah. no um. uh dave richardson. uh who was uh.

uh coach middle. boys. came around my house and said to my dad. uh there's a chance not guaranteed that. chris will be taken on uh as an. apprentice a middlesbrough and he went. no. no he's not going. if he stays in middle row. he'll become uh. he'll be in trouble with police uh he'll.

end up drinking and stuff like that he's. not staying in middlesbrough he's going. in the navy he made my brother join the. army. and he made me join the navy. literally. frog marched me down to the recruitment. office and the sign on the dotted line. can you imagine you know well i can't. imagine doing that to my kids you know. and in a way i think that worked against.

me with my kids. because. i never pressurized my kids to do. anything at all. you know let them. do whatever they wanted whereas. i probably could have been a you know. a little bit more. in terms of football or. you know. but i want whatever they wanted to do. was my wish and i think that came from.

my dad. when he marched you down there and you. had a love for football at that time he. marched you down there and he wanted you. to join the navy. how did you feel. um. not good i have to say not good um. it was. one of those things i left middlesbrough. boys were. in a semi-final um the week before i was. going in the navy so i knew.

i had this final coming up when i signed. a semi-final coming up when i signed uh. for the navy. so i was thinking hopefully the. semi-final and final. yeah of the middle boys. uh will be over. but i played the semi-final and then. i didn't uh get in touch with dave. richardson to tell him i wouldn't be.

there for the final because i was off to. tall point in devon. uh well como it's across the water from. plymouth um that's where i'm from. plymouth yeah plymouth yeah so you know. it's comal and not devon yeah but it's. uh it's a stone's throw. and uh that's where i got my lucky break. yeah. your lucky break. yeah when the navy football team were.

training there so uh. i went down um. one day. and uh i asked the coach if i. could train with him and the team and he. went now. three reasons one you're on. a trial. so. yeah what it did you were on a trial. situation whereas.

you got to. six weeks whether you liked the navy or. they like you and if not you could leave. so he said come back in six weeks. uh if you want and the other thing he. said number two. he said is your black and these lot are. kick lumps out of you so to speak. so and the third thing is you're too. skinny you're not gonna be strong enough.

to play in the. uh navy football team so i said okay. anyway got to six weeks. was fine uh was okay. and then. there's a six months. period then where you can decide if you. want to stay in the navy or not. so. uh i went back to see him and he kept. saying no no no and then one day i was.

running around the track while the navy. football team and he said look we're two. players short i'll play on one side you. play on the other just stay out on the. wing and you'll be fine. so i said okay anyway i scored two goals. from the wing. and got drafted straight into the team. straight away and. the rest is. history.

we played. portsmouth. reserved. and um. navy side i scored another two goals. against them they asked how old i was. and. they bought me out for the. magnificent sum of 200 pounds. and. my dad um. i i found my dad and i told him what was. happening.

and he wasn't happy so. i spoke to the navy and said look. would you do me a favor would you give. me a letter saying if it don't work out. as a footballer i can go back in the. maybe and they said yeah fine. so. i got that letter. uh. sent it to dad and it sounded like made. him. you know a bit more cell.

hmm. and then it happens your your career. portsmouth. a lot of people don't um. a lot of people will never appreciate. especially in this the modern era even. me even me as a guy that has a a black. black mother and a white father the what. racism was like back in the 50s and 60s. you know the first time i experienced. racism was. maybe 1990. eight. no it would have been later a little bit. about 2000 roughly about when i was.

maybe eight or nine or ten but when i. was reading through what you experienced. at that in that time. almost constantly yeah yeah i just it. it's it makes it almost makes my. experience feel like it was nothing. and i mean that like i remember like. once or twice or three times you know. over the course of my whole childhood. people being overtly racist. but when was the first time someone was. racist to you. i know exactly when it all scanner never. forget it. i was eight years old once again that.

was the time where i could light the. fire and go to the shops to get. cigarettes so you went with a note for. the shopkeeper. so it was. 10 wood vines for my mum. and 20 capstan full strength. my dad. so i went to the shop. gave the note to the shopkeeper. uh and he's getting in this woman uh.

came in the shop. anyway she asked for a pint of milk or. loaf of bread i'm not sure of those. details. and uh he said i am i'm serving this. young man here. she said isla should. go back to where they came from. and i thought i live five dollars away. from you you know. uh i'm not you know from somewhere else. and he said no look he stood his ground.

the shopkeeper and served me and i went. out with uh ringing in our ears and then. blacks and souls. shouldn't be here. it says it all that you can remember. that day with such detail. [Music]. i can yeah. that's something i don't think people. realize is the first time someone called. me in the n-word at school i remember. everything about that day i can't. remember many other days but for some.

reason that was a it's a very traumatic. experience. and the first sort of signs that you're. different yeah unwelcome. um. and that would go on to continue. throughout your. childhood your football career. i read about the story when you were. playing against millwall i believe it. was. and someone had thrown a banana on the. pitch at you um. yeah no wall was. horrific but not just for me as a black. person it was for any footballer that.

went there you know basically but even. harder for me i can always remember uh. once again if you ask me about my career. and there's you know lots i forget but. the first time i took a throw in there. the ball went out. and they kept the wall initially it. wouldn't give me it and then eventually. got through on to the pitch. and the.

uh. um. fans uh virtually there and you're. taking a throwing from there so i'm sort. of like taking this throwing and all of. a sudden spit is on the back of my the. packet much. i never took a throwing ever there again. that lesson was truly learnt yeah. and the the the other story which i.

found it just sounded like something. from. a thousand years ago was when you went. to the pub after a game. with your team and the the pub owner. made a comment a racist comment to you. yeah yeah that was in wetherby i'd. played for portsmouth at sunderland. um. and. 1976. i think sunderland needed to win to get.

promotion to the what is the premier. league now the old first division. we needed a win to stay up. in the old second division. what is the championship now anyways. sunderland won. that day. i always remember that game. for two reasons not just the weatherby. incident. i drank champagne for the first time.

uh sunderland sent a case of champagne. into the dressing room because they got. promoted that day. so. we get on the coach uh every. virtually every team that played. sunderland on newcastle would stop at. whether before fish and chips. um. so uh. so we stop so we all pile in the pub uh.

most of the players. and the barman says we don't serve his. kind in here. and. the lights were all gone and i went no. no no it's fine uh to be honest i was. underage anyway i was 17. um. but that didn't matter back then i'd. been going in the pubs since i was 14. you know. um so i went no no it's fine anyway. mickey mello's one of my teammates.

said i'll bring you a pint out but that. was the first time that my teammates. realized you know do you get that often. and stuff like that. they're saying yeah occasionally you. know but. part of life you know. you get on with it. it's one thing to to shrug it off and i. feel like in that situation. there's a time in place you know. to um to address some of these things or.

to confront them. your father had taught you to kind of. not react as you say. but as you look back on that period of. your life. how did that racial abuse shape and. change you as a man. uh. it made you wary of other people. obviously. you know. not happy but i wouldn't say oh god it's. traumatized me or. something like that. and then the. black lives come out and people start.

telling their stories of. racism. and the way they've been treated and you. think ah why can't i tell my story now. and i have them. [Music]. has that helped you telling your story. to be honest i wouldn't say it's helped. me out not help me. i think. since i've had this. well i've got two conditions an. underactive thyroid and.

apraxia. the underactive the thyroid. plays with your emotions. so. i get a lot more emotional now whereas. stuff i wouldn't even bat an eyelid in. the past because of this little. butterfly. uh thyroid in my neck it now. makes me more emotional. when did you discover the underactive. thyroid uh well.

it's funny you know it's really funny um. it's. i did. going through lockdown initially the. first lockdown in march. uh when the weather was great and. everyone you know quite. you know i think they were gutted about. the lockdown but the fact you were at. home and the sun was shining. things were slightly different i did.

loads and loads of shows from home you. know. celeb use and steph's back launch itv. lorraine and stuff like that sky sports. from the you know. barn at home. you know so that was fine. so uh. all of a sudden i began. to not feel well. um. too well but i always stroked it off i'd. take you know.

tablets and be fine the next day and all. that sort of stuff but it wasn't going. away. and uh. i thought. what's going on but i ignored it ignored. it which is the worst thing you can. possibly do. so i would get away with it at home by. hardly not being the person i was you. know i'm not talking as much when i'm. broadcasting for sky.

i'm trying to keep minimalistic because. some of the words are coming out slurred. and stuff like that so. eventually. um. i've got to go and see someone because. i literally went. a whole year if not 20 months. before. i actually. got diagnosed with underactive thyroid.

so. it was all my prayers answered at once. uh. you know. you've got an underactive thyroid take. level thyroid. once you find your level of level of. thyroxine you'll be fine. great doctors great uh sorting out so. eventually you take 25. grams or whatever it is a level entire. auction.

eventually when you find your level. you're fine so i get to 175. and my thyroid is stabilized. bull. my voice condition is still exactly the. same so what's going on. so my doctor then says go for a brain. scan. so i'd go for a mri scan anyway. go and see a brain specialist he looks. at the. x-rays the mri scan fine not a problem.

nothing wrong with your brain it's got. to be something else that's going on. so uh. go back to my gp and tell him what's. going on he's got the report. from the brain scan so he says he he. won't give up my gb. he says. it's not obviously your uh thyroid. there's something else going on.

would you go and see this doctor lily. and late he's a specialist. so i'll go and see dr lily in leads and. before. uh alboni said hello to him uh and. before i can even chat to him he says. you've got apraxia. of speech. right how do you know i can tell. straight away the difficulty between.

the brain and your mouth being able to. speak you know it's probably slower than. it is now uh at that time. so he said a lot you know i want you to. go and have a dat scan which is which. rules out parkinson's or stroke and all. that so so. i did uh went back to see him with the. result for the results i should say.

and he went. the good news is. uh you haven't got. parkinson's or anything like that the. bad news is. you know. we can't find anything else wrong with. you so. you know the apraxia. you know will probably get worse. and uh. and. you know. that went on for. quite a while uh.

i went to see a therapist. and he kept saying to me look you need. to tell people you know you can't. continue. on tv and people are saying is he drunk. and what's the matter with him has he. had a stroke. you need to. come out and say something i said i. can't i can't i'd rather quit. than. actually say something. uh. anyway eventually.

i. spoke to my mate ben sheppard. uh. told him what was going on so he said. look. come on. uh gmb. uh. we'll chat about it and. let the world know. what's going on. how are things for your your family. during this period. um.

my boys had been saying to my wife that. something wrong with that uh. for a while. and. she saw like. would broach it with me but i'd be. quite snappy and you know which i'm not. anyway. you know and say no i'm fine i'm fine. don't worry about it i'm fine. and i kept thinking like i said once i. got the thyroid problem the level will.

tie rocks. i'll take it away. and then. um. it's still with with me and. yeah. yeah. it's harder for people close to you i. think you know because. my two boys are saying oh you're okay. oh yeah i'm fine i've just had a bad day. you know don't worry i'll be fine uh but. they know you know.

you can't pull the ball over their eyes. for too long. for someone that has never experienced. what it's like to have apraxia. what does it feel like for you in your. head. it feels like. someone is taking over my voice books. so. the. voice that used to come out would come. out at 300 mile an hour you know you've.

seen me on the. results and. uh soccer saturday you know my mouth. talking uh. not even waiting for a breath just keep. going and going. now when i hear myself or see myself on. tv it's someone else. it's strange it's really strange. some days you know their message from. the brain to the mouth.

is really slow yeah. makes it difficult or some days the. words come out different that what. you're trying to say and that's even. weirder. uh and so that's been hard to accept. and still hard to accept i have to say. you know. i. was gonna quit everything you know. literally every single. tv at the end of last season leave sky.

uh quit bbc quit itv quit channel four. and five. and all those companies. uh. bbc i think it was the right time to. leave sky. uh i'd had a great innings but. itv channel on channel 5 said no no. you're coming doesn't matter you know i. said well it's the quality of the. program no it doesn't matter.

you you're fine we want you to do this. and would you believe i'm now. doubly busy than what i was before. that that period of um. uncertainty you get the diagnosis. the specialist says to you it's only. going to get worse. [Music]. your career is at that point in. speaking. it's in presenting broadcasting yeah.

what's what what was that period of. uncertainty like on your mental health. um. yeah it was uh an acceptance really. because what i said to my wife is if i. wasn't a broadcaster it wouldn't matter. would it. and so she said yeah yeah so i said you. know now's the time i've had a great.

time i spoke to my agent. simon dent said look i'm getting out of. all this. and he said yeah you can yeah don't. worry. i'll leave it up to you and uh. yeah i thought that's it quit i've done. my time. and. i'd like to thank all the people. that are being persistent and said look. at 25 percent coming years.

you know. still better than some people you know. and skye. saw you on that show forever. um yeah presenting and bringing you know. insights and wisdom and laughs and. um all of that to the show. i also watched the tribute um that jeff. jeff did when you left what was that. like having to to speak to.

to jeff and and the rest of the lads and. tell them. departing and for the reason um well. jeff's a really close foul and he knew. that been something going on for a while. and he kept saying to me are you all. right and i said yeah i'll find you. don't worry i'm fine you say well you. know. yeah what's going on so i said honestly. just had a couple of bad days and stuff. but i'll be fine on saturday then he'd. send me a text and say you know fine.

again no i said i'll be all right next. week or whatever but. yeah you can't pull the wool over. people's eyes who know you real well and. uh it was great you know. the tribute that skye gave me which. like i said was the right time to leave. there. uh i cried when he cried on the show.

i've never seen him cry before. he's a really um. beautiful powerful moment. um. since then. you've uh in your own words you've. really thrown the kitchen sink i think. is the quote um. um the apraxia and can you talk to me. about what you've done since to. to um. mitigate the. impact of the. um. condition on you and your life and your. career.

yeah the um the day i went on. gmb and spoke to ben sheppard. um. and kate um. the i got a phone call immediately from. a fella that i knew. ish. uh a fellow called winford doors and uh. he said uh. i can cure you you know i know there's. people out there that'll help.

to get you right. so. he said. i want you to come and meet a professor. nicholson down at sheffield university. so i said okay so i met winford and the. professor anyway between them they were. saying. you need to kickstart your cerebellum. which is in the back of the brain.

uh what's happened is uh it's shut down. so we need to get the jump leads out. start it again and get your brain going. and get your speech going. and uh there are various ways to do that. [Music]. so. so i said yeah what are those i'll do. absolutely anything here to try and get.

it right. so. he got. [Music]. zing performance which is really. exercises for stroke victims but it's. helped my balance. uh. arc performance which is micro currents. going through my body i still i have. a tag on my. ankle now with those micro currents. going through all the time yeah all the.

time yeah. uh for seven hours every day. um and it's helped. yeah it's helped you know i'm. i wouldn't say um. more than 60 percent. the old me but. you know i was 20. you know so i've gone up 40. for a. hyperbaric uh tent you know with the. oxygen he recommended.

i do that and i see a therapist. who helps with the speech and help my. anxiety working for sky. became very difficult you know. before i. even. came out and said i've got it. my heart would be like mad before they. came to me at sky.

oh the anxiety was terrible because i. was. knowing i wasn't the old me. so i went to see him and he said look i. can cure that. the other problem the apraxia is a. biological condition so i can't help. with that but. we'll try you know and see if we can get. you through things. so getting rid of the anxiety helped me. finish work or.

the. work i had stacked up uk strongest. mountain the games right tv. uh all those shows cash in the attic i. present. um. so they helped me do that um. and uh all those. um. treatments you know i'm taking so many. vitamins these days and uh. i've just been introduced by winford.

uh to uh. the. uh. best neurologist neurologist. in america and. he said because i have good days there's. no reason why i can't be cured. so i've sent off a load of blood tests. and everything to america and i'm just. waiting on the results. how is life for you now.

you've been through a journey yeah you. know. where are you in in that journey now. strange uh. strange in terms of. i feel a fraud now in terms of. broadcasting i don't bring. to the table what i used to. um so that's hard. my life away from the screen. couldn't be any better. you know grandkids.

you know family yeah. it's. you know it's perfect unique yeah. you feel afraud. yeah. um. because you because you. i feel i'm doing these programs and. and they're not getting the best of me. but they're tolerating me you know. that's how it feels.

i mean. who am i to say but um you know i. i think what you what they told you. about. as you said 25 of you is better than. pretty much everyone else. you know i've you you've brought so much. joy to my life growing up made me love. the game more made me understand the. game more you've made it hilarious i. mean you know that you're you're loved. more than anyone i've ever seen on the. screen so. and you've earned that that's a skill. that's something i couldn't do.

i wouldn't know how to do a slither of. what you do so. i don't think that um i suspect that. fear is is not as logical as you think. it is that you're a fraud. i mean that as well like i could never. do what you do i can do of 10 of what. you do. so um. you know. it's like anything else you take it for. granted your old self you do things. you know.

that tribute that skye gave me. that's. reserved for someone who passes away. isn't it you know so i've had the. tribute while i'm still alive. uh that people don't get when they go. you always look back and think you read. the obituaries and the comments and. things why didn't people say that. you know so. i think. maybe i should have bowed out.

then. you know and. taking the accolades and said thank you. you know am i tarnishing. what i've got what i had. but i but i think um my rebuttal to that. if i may is that you you're serving the. world in a very important way now still. even by having this conversation and. being vulnerable and open. you are serving hundreds of thousands of.

people. thousands and thousands of people in a. completely entirely different way. that are suffering. with with various conditions whether. it's. you know as you said post-stroke victims. or whether it's apraxia or other things. and they're struggling with the same. self-doubt. it's funny like our missions just change. over our lives right like so your first. missions was in football and then you. became a manager then you did. broadcasting and now this chapter of. your life is just a different chapter. you're still you know a wondrous.

broadcaster but you're serving people in. a completely other way probably maybe. arguably even in a more important way. see what i mean yeah. yeah i do. yeah. it's funny i did the itv games and. a youtuber who was called young philly. i'd never met him before but he's on the. first show. and he sees me before we go broadcasting. and he comes over and he starts doing.

that he went you're a god. when. what. you know. i'm young philly pleased to meet you. do you know what icon you are for black. people. that went nah don't be darby you are. you're a trailblazer. you know you did tv before diversity. you know how did you get into tv when. you you know on sky sports and there was.

no black people around and all that so. stuff you're an. icon and i went no i don't see myself as. uh anyway well you'd be my inspiration. so. makes you feel good for a second that's. worth it right yeah. and that alone that that thought that. you're inspiring people just by having. this conversation. and by sharing your story and being. honest and not running into the shadows. as you could have very easily done.

is gonna help that and you probably. never get to meet them like you got to. meet young philly. hmm but that's got to be worth it right. yeah. yeah it was i didn't believe him but. yeah. he's got no reason to lie though. quick one as you might know crafted are. one of the sponsors of this podcast and. crafted are a jewellery brand and they. make really meaningful pieces of. jewellery and this piece by crafted when. i put it on for me it represents courage.

it represents ambition it represents. being calm and loving and respectful and. nurturing while also being the. antithesis of that seemingly the. antithesis of that which is um sometimes. a little bit aggressive with my goals. and determined and courageous and brave. the really wonderful thing about crafty. jewelry is it's super affordable it. looks amazing the pieces hold tremendous. meaning and they are really well made. this next uh this next chapter. what what what do you want it to be full.

of. my life has changed uh in terms of. grandkids. you know material things. don't matter anymore um. the love yeah for. you know your kids kids uh is something. else so. you know. i'm one of those now. even though i'm still working my main.

priority is spending time with them. what advice would you give me. you know i just turned 30. last week. what advice would you give me i say it. to everyone. work hard and you'll succeed. don't ever turn down work. don't ever say on a job or this is hard. i don't like it anymore i can't do this.

do it. do it and do it to the best of your. ability and see where it takes you you. know. tv. is. one of those jobs i think where if you. work hard enough you'll succeed. in football that's not the case you know. i've grown up in football and you. sometimes a lucky break is better. than working hard even you've still got.

a workout but you need breaks. and of course you need breaks in tv but. if you work hard. i think you get them i started off at. sky. and so. people say how did you get into sky in. 1998. well. initially. i was a pundit forum. i was lucky fortunate the first.

broadcast of the. football league was sunderland versus. sheffield united at sheffield. and they rang me i was manager of the. month with bradford. in. [Music]. august we won four games and drew one. and they called me and said would you. come and be the pundit. so i said yeah sheffield down the road. from me and they said no. you've got to come into sky.

in west london so i came all the way. down. marcus brooklyn the presenter who is his. first day and it was a double header six. hours of tv. obviously ads in between and all that. sort of stuff half time. and that and jerry francis was doing the. second game. so that's where fate took a hand.

uh i did the first game sunderland won. at sheffield. and jerry francis got stuck on the m4 so. i did the double header so. from doing six hours of tv i became the. go-to guy then for sky so a live game. are you available. uh yeah i'll come down and do it and i. did that. and then when i got the sack from. bradford they asked.

would i like a contract and i said no. but i like to keep my face in the shop. window. so i did one broadcast and then stoke. came along. and i got that job. and then that job turned sour pretty. quickly after three months. and uh. then. i just fell straight into sky. the broadcasting.

and. so. eventually um. the 1999. the producer of soccer side he said. would you like to come and join the team. uh so i said yeah so you went would you. like to do some features for us. so i would actually go and train with. teams premier league teams you know can. you cannot imagine in a million years.

that they let you in and train with the. players these days but i did that back. in the day 1990 you know so i'd go on. train joining the training with them. interview the managers the players shoot. the. and then i. went and edited those pieces. because i didn't want someone saying oh. yeah it's fine but you know the hard. work is done by the editor.

so i would sit myself in a studio. and. sometimes it took six seven hours for a. four minute piece to edit it down. but i thought all right i don't want. anyone saying he's there by for all. hard work. and if you do that people see that. uh. it'll help not in all cases but in most. cases.

that was the very start of what would go. on to be a legendary career in the media. um. i. when you look so you've given me one. reason now as to why you're successful. which is just the hard work and saying. yes. but the media business is also. it's much more complex than that in the. sense that hard work as you say is like. you definitely need to do it but. what was it about you. do you think that set you apart. as of as a in the media industry as a. broadcaster. i don't know that i'm still baffled by.

that i went to ian condren's. uh. 40th anniversary with his wife he was. ian was the producer of soccer sadie who. gave me the job. and. [Music]. i said. why you know. i'd seen you on doing other programs. punditry and so you'd be great for our. show. he said uh you know took a chance with.

you and uh. and it works for 20 years. you mustn't you must have a suspicion. no no no at all you know i'm i was. allowed to be just me. so. i didn't have to work at it like i had. to work it. editing those pieces together you know. the training plan. uh interviewing the managers all came. natural yeah it was that hard work that.

i wanted to prove that i could do um but. no. i was fortunate oh it was just me. and. when did you meet anne uh we met uh. when i was at swindon. uh i got transferred from. uh portsmouth. to swindon my first ever transfer.

and uh. in 1978. [Music]. 1978 yeah 1978. and uh we actually. played portsmouth. my first game. for swindon was. home to portsmouth. and. yeah i had to uh please escort to the.

game um. the. uh club had been informed by the. intelligence. that the national front because. portsmouth had 200 national front. supports national front is this racist. organization from yeah couple decades. ago yeah. so. they'd got wind that they were. gonna do me in you know. um so uh.

you know when i played for pompey there. was a small section of fans that. booed you onto the pitch because of your. color booed you off. you know but like i said back in those. days. i didn't care not one job you know and i. didn't care when they said about this. you know you're gonna be nothing and i. said oh it's just a threat don't worry. about it but the police intelligence. said no. we need to pick you up.

and. take you to the game and drop you back. home. so i did and. uh he scored went to the year after 10. minutes. and not like today uh where. people don't celebrate uh of course. stupid me you know dad this death threat. goes straight because i scored in the. end where the pompey fans were.

and. gave it all that. so uh. so yeah no. so uh the police escort wanted to take. me back to my dicks but i said no. leave it now it's fine. and uh one of my teammates. kenny stroud. his wife linda was with. uh this girl called on. uh and uh i asked her out and.

you know 40 years later or 43. years later. we're still together. what a journey it's been. a long journey yeah. what does she mean to you. uh everything you know. it's. you take. wives from grant and all i did you know. i can't speak for everyone else.

um. but it's only when. you have a problem like this because. you know. i. just live for today you know i'm fine. i'm you know i'm. no problems don't worry about me. so it's when you have a problem. um that you have to. you know look at your closest one and. see what they do for you and. how they react.

to what you're going through which. you know. is difficult and then you feel. sad about you know not sharing things. before and keeping things away from. how did she react to all of this. um. she. she said. she thought for a while she didn't say. anything. she said she sought. uh for a while.

there was something not quite right but. she couldn't put her finger on it. and she's been my rock you know now. you know. i don't i don't hardly you know this is. the longest i've spoken to anybody for a. long time you know. and you'll probably see when you edit. this tape. sometimes it's slow sometimes it's. coming out okay now it's coming out okay.

and it feels fine you know and that's. all to do with the mind. maybe i'm talking about a good thing now. with ants so it's fine and it's free. so yeah she's. you know she's taking the. weight. uh a heavy weight of my shoulders. and. you know allowed me. to do what i do. to continue doing what i'm doing if i.

want to do it. but she does say from time to time. you're allowed to say no to these jobs. that simon rings up and asked me to do. but i don't like to let anyone down. you know i think it's worth saying that. i think this this has been a really. really great conversation. um and uh. i'm actually quite surprised to hear.

that of how much you struggled. previously based on with the. conversation we've had today. because i don't. um. i don't i don't know if i'm speaking out. turn here but had i not known about the. um the condition. this would have been a perfectly normal. conversation on this on this podcast so. it's really really interesting and. enlightening to. to learn more about it and i. yeah i can't imagine as from a family's. perspective as well going through that. journey with their father where you're. trying to find answers you find answers.

and then there's that whole sort of. therapy process to get you back to where. you are and the mental health. journey that takes us on which we've not. really talked about in detail but. there's the curing the the condition but. then there's like living with the cost. of. the shift the tectonic shift in your. life. um. it consumed your mind or asda. mine. so. every day i wake up the first thing i. think. am i gonna be able to talk today you.

know so. immediately i wake up i'll go in the. bathroom and i'll look in the mirror and. say a few words and. it's fine or i think it's fine. the perception is fine in my head and. then i'll go downstairs and. talk to anne and all of a sudden that. pathway is. restricted and oh god not again today. you know and that's been hard to get my.

head around. and my therapist uh daniel. he says you exaggerate. in your mind you know that's the problem. because you've never had to think about. your speech now you're thinking and. you're overthinking so even though like. you've said. it seems fine to you in my head i know. that it's slower. than.

it would have been had we spoken three. years ago. and that the cognition part the thoughts. that they're still the same. yeah they're they're lightning quick. yeah they're fine. so uh. they're there in terms of speech but. i have days where. if you're out and about or. even indoors there's nothing in the. brain area so.

you know whereas. i could normally go into a room. did it all the. time. speak to everyone have a laugh that was. the first thing on my mind. now. that. part of it is hard work. and it feels hard work and it feels this. struggle and it doesn't feel natural. that's the worst thing. so i tend not to do it very often you.

know unless. i'm feeling good i've you know. spoken to someone else and. i can tell it's fluid. uh the voice then i'll go in a room and. be myself again. chris we have a closing tradition on. this podcast yes where the um. last guest asks a question for the next. guest they don't know who they're. writing it for. and they'll never find out. um although i have said their name.

earlier on so you might be able to. figure it out right. but um. the question they've written for you is. i'm going to read it verbatim what has. been the most happiest. moment of your life. full stop brought you the most joy. and why. uh is that kids aside.

or let's say kids aside because yeah. yeah yeah kids aside. uh achieving my ambition and my dream. yeah. i can you know as a young black kid. playing. on the fields around where i live. thinking that one day. i'll play an awesome park for. middlesbrough and ellen wrote four leads.

it's blown my mind away you. know uh ambition and dream. achieved. chris thank you i am i have no doubt. that. your ambitions and dreams are are just. getting started because you have all of. the the core the minerals that it are. required to achieve pretty much anything. and you've shown that your life has been. a testament to that even in the face of. great adversity. thank you i thank you not just for. myself and for you giving me your time. today but. um i don't think you realize how many.

people you're going to help in a really. important profound way how much pain. you're going to alleviate from them how. you're going to make them feel seen and. understood just by doing this today and. just by not hiding in the shadows thank. you so thank you and thank you for all. the joy you've brought me you've made. football fun. you've made it um. made me understand the game better over. the course of pretty much my entire life. um so i'm for one i'm so glad that i. still get to see you on the screens and. i hope to see you a lot more i know you. guys showed ninja warrior uk race for. glory um which is airing on itv which.

i'm very excited about watching as well. yeah i'm so glad i did it you know i. tried to pull out. when they rang me and said. we've been commissioned for series seven. i went oh no and they what what do you. mean oh no now when oh no you're not. getting the old coming they said oh. don't worry about it. and uh. i've watched a bit of the first episode.

and even though it don't sound like me. it's passable you know so. yeah i hope people enjoy it well as you. said 25 percent of you is better than. pretty much most anyone else so. we'll take that thank you so much chris. thanks. i had a few words to say about one of my. sponsors on this podcast for many years. people have been asking for a coffee. flavored huel and quite recently he'll. release the iced coffee caramel flavor. of their um ready-to-drink heels and.

i've just become hooked on it over the. last couple of weeks i've been on a. really interesting journey with huel. which i've described and talked about a. little bit on this podcast i started. with the berry ready to drinks then i. moved over to the protein salted caramel. because it's 100 calories and it gives. you all of your essential vitamins and. minerals but also gives you the 20 odd. grams of protein you need and now i'm. balanced between them both i drink. mostly the banana flavor ready to drink. i've got really into the iced coffee. caramel um flavor of heels ready to. drink and now i'm drinking that as well.

as the protein make sure you try the new. ready to drink flavors the caramel. flavor is amazing the new banana flavor. as well as amazing and obviously as i. said the iced coffee caramel flavor has. been a real smash here so check it out. let me know what you think on social. media i see all of your tags and. instagram posts and tweets about huell. [Music].