Brain Experts WARNING: Watch This Before Using ChatGPT Again! (Shocking New Discovery)

Chat GPT, who's going to potentially. increase your risk of dementia. >> I'm sorry, but you you've pressed my. button. And actually, it is possible to. use it to help you become a smarter. person. But it requires education. You. have to look at the risks and the. benefits. >> But we've embraced convenience before. understanding consequence. >> So we have to talk about this. This is a. study that came out that sent a. shockwave across the world. And. astonishingly, MIT found a 47% collapse. in brain activity when people wrote with. Chat GPT compared with writing unaided.

Their memory scores plunged. And you're. both masters of the brain. I mean, you've probably scanned more brains than. any other human on Earth at this point. And you invented the Boltzmann machine. with Geoffrey Hinton, a computer that. simulated how the brain works. So my. question is, what are your concerns? >> If you misuse these large language. models, like using it as a convenience. to speed things up, your brain's going. to go downhill. There's no doubt about. that. >> What about children? >> We have the sickest young generation. history because of cell phones, social. media.

>> And I think AI is much more dangerous. >> On the developing brain. >> So are we raising mentally weak kids? >> There is that argument that I think is. true. >> And then there's many examples of people. falling in love with AIs, like Annie. >> I thought you might have forgotten about. me, handsome. >> Can you talk to Daniel and Terry, please? >> Oh, baby, I'm ready to charm the socks. off them. Picture me. >> Okay, so I'll stop it there. So what. advice would you give as it relates to. AI and other things outside of AI that. we can do to have healthy brains? >> I'll tell you how to use Chat GPT to.

improve our cognitive abilities. >> And if you want to keep your brain. healthy, you have to treat the 11 major. risk factors. >> So here we go. >> I see messages all the time in the. comment section that some of you didn't. realize you didn't subscribe. So if you. could do me a favor and double-check if. you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple it's the free thing that. anybody that watches this show. frequently can do to help us here to. keep everything going in this show in. the trajectory it's on. So please do. double-check if you subscribed and uh. thank you so much because in a strange.

way you are you're part of our history. and you're on this journey with us and I. appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank. you. Dr. Daniel. Dr. Terry. I have asked you both to sit. with me today to help me understand the. impact of these tools that we call large. language models, the chat GPTs, the. Geminis of the worlds, the Groks of the. world are having on our brains and I. guess more broadly on our lives. And you. two are experts in your field. You're.

two people that I admire tremendously. So, by way of introduction. Terry. what is your academic background and. what is your experience? And I also know. that you know one of our friends of the. show, Geoffrey Hinton. Can you give me an overview of your your. academic and your sort of professional. background? >> So. I was born a physicist. Received a PhD in theoretical physics. from Princeton University. And then I had the good fortune to. work as a postdoc in the lab of Stephen. Kuffler who's the father of.

neurobiology. And and that started my career as a. neuroscientist. I pioneered a part of. neuroscience which is now called. computational neuroscience, taking my. skills as a physicist and trying to. apply that to understanding the brain, creating models, theories, and we're. making progress. >> Dr. Daniel Lehman, um. bit about your background. My My viewers. know you well, but just to give an. overview for anyone that might not have. been exposed to your work and your. experience. What have you spent your. life doing? And what are your.

thoughts, your sort of top-line thoughts. on everything that's going on at the. moment with artificial intelligence? >> So, by training I'm a psychiatrist. I'm. a. general psychiatrist and a child. psychiatrist. When I graduated from. medical school I wanted to be a really. good psychiatrist because. someone I loved tried to kill herself. And so was personal to me. I have 11 clinics. We see about 10,000. patient visits a month, and we have the.

best published outcomes on complex. treatment resistant psychiatric patients. anywhere. >> So you've probably scanned more brains. than any other human on Earth at this. point. >> Probably. At least in regards to people. who struggle with anxiety, depression, addiction. >> Well, let's talk about what's good for. the brain and bad for the brain starting. with AI. The reason why I wanted to. speak to both of you is because I have. frankly become pretty addicted to using. ChatGPT and some of these other AIs and.

large language models every single day. all the time. And then this study came. out from MIT. There was 54 participants. who were recruited from five. universities in Boston, MIT, Harvard, etc., etc. And they had the participants. split into three groups, had them. writing different essays over I think it. was 4 months. One group used ChatGPT, one group used Google, and one one group. had no tools. And they had to write. these four essays over a a period of. time.

And astonishingly MIT found a 47%. collapse in activity. and brain connections when people wrote. with ChatGPT compared with writing. unaided. EEG scans showed the weakest overall. brain activity in the ChatGPT group. The. no tool group who didn't use anything, they didn't use Google or ChatGPT, lit. up the widest neural networks, and. Google search was second. After using. ChatGPT, participants couldn't reliably. quote their own essays minutes later, and their memory scores plunged. ChatGPT.

users felt little or no ownership over. the text that they had produced, and. didn't feel like it was their work at. all. And when the AI group was forced to. write without help in session four, their brain stayed in low gear, under. engagement showing the cognitive debt. lingers even after the tool is taken. away. It kind of scared me a little bit. because I use these tools every single. day and this suggests that it's taking. away some of our critical thinking and. creativity and long-term learning. And. you're both masters of the brain in.

different regards. So my question I guess to Daniel is. what's going on here and how do you feel. about it? >> It frightened me. I love thinking about Alzheimer's. prevention. It's one of the things that. really excites me. I just had a birthday. on Saturday, turned 71 and if I make it. to 85, which I plan on it, 50% of people. 85 and older will be diagnosed with. dementia. So you have a one in two. chance of having lost your mind and I'm.

like, no. But is this a tool that's going to. decrease cognitive load. that then increases my risk? >> What's cognitive load? >> How much work my brain actually does. And I was thinking, it's you know, it's. like going from a 20-lb weight. to a 2-lb weight and you're not nearly.

as strong. One of the important things to say about. this study is it's not peer reviewed and. I think that's really important to say. and the author said cuz I listened to an. interview from the authors, they said we. thought this was so important and peer. review can take six to eight months, which it absolutely can. and we thought this needed to get out. So it's just important for people to. know that. >> What's this link you this hypothesis you. have between the usage of something like.

ChatGPT and dementia? For someone that. doesn't understand. the sort of mechanism there around. cognitive load and and so on and the. studies that support this idea that if. you have less cognitive load you're at. higher risk of dementia. Can you make. that link really clear for me? >> So think of it as use it or lose it. The. more you use your brain and new learning. is a major strategy to prevent. Alzheimer's disease. People who do not. engage in lifelong learning.

have a higher risk, significantly. higher. People who do not do as well in. school or who drop out of school early. have a higher risk of dementia. And so. the the more you're engaged, the more you engage the neurons in your. brain, the stronger they are. And so now we're going to engage them. less. and that's a concern.

>> What do you think about that, Terry? >> There was a study that was done. What they did was to look at. Alzheimer's in three populations. You know, who had very little schooling. and then minimal education, you know, like the equivalent I guess of high. school or less. And then postgraduate studies. And what. they found was that the onset of. Alzheimer's. was the earliest in the peasant. population and then by the time as you. increase the amount of education it the.

onset was later and later. Which I think supports what you're. saying. >> Did you see the new research on SSRIs. increasing the risk of dementia? >> No. No. >> Brand new. That just came out. And. benzos, when I started looking at scans. in 1991, I was trained to use benzos. like Valium and Xanax and Ativan and. they make your brain look older than you. are and I stopped prescribing them and. then it just came out maybe 10 years ago. benzo use is associated with an.

increased risk of dementia. We have to. be careful. Is this good for your brain. or bad for it? >> Just to pick up on your point about. SSRIs, Daniel, a meta-analysis of five. studies found that SSRIs. was associated with a 75% increased risk. of dementia, which is pretty staggering. >> Given that 25% of the adult American. population is on psychiatric drugs, it's horrifying. And.

SSRIs for the right people save lives. For the wrong people, they're not good. But can you imagine all of these 340. million prescriptions last year for. antidepressants? Virtually no one looked at their brain. ahead of time. It's like, come on, we can do better. >> There's a Swedish study with um almost. 20,000 patients, and they found that those with higher. doses of SSRIs were linked to faster. cognitive decline and more severe. dementia, especially in men. The.

greatest risk was in men. Going back to. to this this um report from MIT, Terry, you know, it's not peer-reviewed yet, and there's still. you know, the sample size is relatively. small. But based on everything that you. know about how the brain works, and. neural networks, and memory formation, what are your concerns as it relates to. this whole generation of young people. and older people flooding into these. tools, using them on a daily basis, um before we understand the long-term. consequences?

>> We can't predict. where it's going to end up. And it may. take 20 years, right? I I I think that. this is a good start, but uh. the real issue is long-term use. Let me give you a an example. that uh is a kind of a miniature example. of what we're talking about. Remember. when electronic calculators were first. introduced? And here we are, this it's at least 30. or 40 years later, right? The results. are in. It is probably true that when they punch.

it in, there's less brain activity. But in fact, it's it's uh made them more. accurate, more productive. You have to look at the risks and the. benefits. >> So, it freed them up. It freed up. cognitive space. >> Right. >> for them to do other things. So, as I. was listening to how you use ChatGPT, you interact with it. >> Yep. >> and. elevates. what you know.

The the danger is is if you don't. interact. and you don't keep your brain working. Like, I use it a lot. I have a. clone. I've uploaded all of my books, all of my research papers, all of my. public television specials, my scripts. And I'm like, answer this for me. And that can be very helpful. But if but not if I'm not interacting. with it, not thinking with it.

>> That's what I think the word thinking is. the key thing because what's happening. now is people have deferred their. thinking to it. That is already what's. happening. If you log on to I won't name. the social networks, but if you log on. to certain social networks right now, every you just read it, you go, everything here was written by AI. And I've got a friend who I again I. won't name who has a LinkedIn profile. and. I've known him for 10 years. What I'm seeing on his profile now. is not my friend. Every single day, there's some essay on. that that's not my friend. That's not.

how he speaks. He's deferring all of his thinking now. to And it's working. He's getting more. likes and more reach than he ever got in. his life. And so, why would he go back? Why would. he go back to harder? If you've got. Steven Bartlett here and you had this. other Steven Bartlett here who had a PhD. in everything. and were attached, this Steven Bartlett, this um. Neanderthal, I'm going to get this guy to do. everything for me, the other Steven. Bartlett, the PhD and everything Steven. Bartlett. I'm going to get his brain. >> was bad for you?

>> Well, this is what I'm saying. People. seem to act on their short-term. incentives, not their long not their. long What. >> Not everyone. Not everyone. >> Would you say the vast majority of. people? >> Yes. >> Okay, so the vast majority of people act. on their short-term incentives in life. I mean, the obesity problem in the. United States is a prime example of. that. 75%. 75% of people are obese in the United. States. And if you if you survey these. people and say, "Do you know that that. cheeseburger is going to is going to. increase your chances of obesity, but. broccoli is going to reduce it?" They. would I would hazard a guess that they.

would say yes. I would hazard a guess that if you said. to people about their usage of social. media, "Do you know that that's making. you more anxious?" they would say yes, and then they would continue to use it. So, I think that we're much more driven. by our short-term. >> not educating people enough. I think. yes, high level, they know good for your. brain or bad for it, but they don't. connect to. it's my brain that gets me a date. It's. my brain that gets me into college. It's. my brain that gets me independence.

because I act more consistently. And. that's the disconnect. We're not. teaching kids to love and care for their. brain. If you love your brain, and you. do, and you're not obese, and you talk. to you're constantly learning, right? You are not a Neanderthal, you're a. lifelong learner. >> So, why so many people in the United. States obese if they if they know that. >> Because they don't know. Because they. don't know. Well, and they've been lied to.

>> My point here is when there are. tools or things available in our. environment that give us a short-term. reward, but come with a long-term cost, like the supermarket aisle, or like. the kid spending 7 to 8 hours a day on. social media, humans, on mass, tend to go for the thing that. will give them the quickest dopamine hit. and reinforce that behavior and give. them the reward. So, my assertion is. that AI is the same thing. I can either sit down and do lots of.

critical thinking, which will cost me. lots and lots of time, and it will be. kind of difficult. It kind of hurts when. I have to think through a problem. I. think that the generation of children, the generation of young people, are. going to choose AI to do the critical. thinking for them. And if that assertion. is true, then what happens to the brain. of young people? >> If you misuse it that way, then your. brain's going to go downhill. There's no. doubt about that. Okay. It is possible. to. be able to use it in in a cognitively uh. positive way, because you can dig.

deeper. Uh you might actually improve that your. cognitive representations. >> If you look at the MIT study, then I. mean you can see just from the colors. here, this kind of shows the ability for. participants to remember what they've. written. And it said it suggests that. when people write things with ChatGPT or. these AI tools, they don't actually. remember even in some cases minutes. later. what they've produced. >> Well, cuz you're not part of the. experience of writing it. So, there's no. way the information.

gets encoded. Now, if you're interacting. with it, then you're much more likely to remember. it. But if you have "Please do this. essay for me." and then you read it, you're not likely. to have enough experience with the. material to engage. your hippocampus and. other structures in your brain. >> In the study, they found that the group. that used ChatGPT had nearly two times.

less activity in the part of the brain. linked to memory compared to the. brain-only group that didn't use. ChatGPT. And 83% of ChatGPT users couldn't. remember what they had just written and. failed to correctly quote their own. finished essay in the study. >> That's cuz they're not interacting. As. you said, I mean if you if you just pass. it off and and you don't actually engage. and and and actually this is the point. is that you may get something back, but. you have to learn how to question what.

you're getting. And and is that really true? Can you. explain that better? And as through that. process as you would with a teacher, you know, that's that's the way we work. in. school. Uh that's that's the where you help. create new creative and. uh circuits in the in the in the brain. that are going to help you become a. better critical thinker. But if you're. not critically questioning what comes. out of ChatGPT, then you you won't. >> Yeah, I I think what I see, especially.

when I'm just online, is people have. deferred their thinking to it. Everything I'm reading has em dashes in. now that I never saw two two years ago, which means that a lot of the work is. being processed. And I I said to my. friend the other day, my friend in. question, who's a who's a real big. junkie on ChatGPT, he wrote this article and we all in our. WhatsApp group, we know he doesn't write. like that. So we said, "Can you show us. the prompt you used to write the. article?" And so he we were all like. laughing about it. He put the prompt in. the chat. The prompt is.

half a sentence long. And it produced this long two three-page. article, which he's posted on his. LinkedIn. He basically went, "Write. something about X issue and this this. issue and include this.". >> the wrong way to use it. That's what I'm. telling you. That that that that that's. stupid. You you and you're not going to. improve yourself your brain at all if. you do that. >> That's what people are doing. >> Well, you know, that's that's. you know, people are misusing it, but. you know, eventually smart people are. going to figure out how to use it. properly.

>> And for the those that aren't so smart, then? >> Well, that's. >> It's going to decrease our cognitive. load, which is going to potentially. increase their risk of dementia. >> And so what advice would you give to me. and my listeners based on everything you. know about the brain as it relates to my. relationship with AI? >> That you have to have a relationship. with it, or it's going to turn toxic. It's going to hurt you. But, if you have a good relationship. with it, it can make your life better.

>> And what is what does a what does a good. relationship look like? >> That you don't use it to do your work. You interact with it to get better work. >> That's so true. And this is wonderful. example I came across. This story about this woman who was. using it and she found that being polite. meant you got much better results and. that that's interesting, but the part. that surprised me was that she said. by treating it like a human at the end.

of the day, she was not exhausted. She. felt refreshed. A large part of your. brain is a socially organized system for. interacting with other humans. And that is automatic pilot. You don't. have to think about it, right? You just. interact with other people. You know how. they're going to behave under certain. circumstances. She was treating ChatGPT like a machine. Like, you know, shovel. Dig. You dig. You dig. You dig. And and that's not a. good relationship.

But, by using your social brain, first. of all, it makes it easier to interact, but also you're you actually bring out. the social part of ChatGPT. It has a. social part, too, cuz it has absorbed. the entire world's knowledge of how. humans interact with each other. >> But, didn't Sam Altman come out and say. stop saying thank you. to ChatGPT because just saying thank you. is using up so much energy. You know, when I get something I really like, I.

sort of want to say thank you, but you. realize, oh, you're You're supposed to. do that. >> That's true. That's [ __ ]. >> I'm sorry. That Sam, you know, that's. crazy. That's completely crazy. First of. all, you you may get. you may I'm sorry you you know, you press my button. Sam Altman, I mean, I wouldn't trust him. I wouldn't trust. him with with anything in terms of. anything he says. They're trying to optimize their. profits, not your. your use of your experience or you know,

your health. That's not what they're. trying to optimize. >> Sam Altman open AI CEO confirmed that. when users say please and thank you, it. costs the company tens of millions of. dollars a year, and they now refer to. this other people refer to this as the. politeness tax. Where tens of yeah, and. why do you say you don't trust Sam. Altman? I mean, I ask this question in. particular because he's presiding over. one of the most important consequential. companies of a generation. And if he's not someone you trust,

that's. >> He basically he's telling you don't do. something that's good for you. Right? >> So that he can make profit. >> So he can make more profit. Yeah, that's. the point. That's the point. You know, it's it's that's not he's not optimizing. your your. best interest. >> I've got his tweet here. He said um. cuz I'm going to provide some balance. He did confirm that it costs tens of. millions of dollars, but he says tens of. millions of dollars well spent. You never know. So so coming back to this point about. memory,

there's a stat that came out in March. 2025 that said nearly 30% of US parents. with kids aged 0 to 8 said their. children. are using AI for learning. Um and are using AI generally. So 54% of. parents in the UK feared their children. were becoming too reliant on AI. When you think about the use of AI in. early brain development, are there any concerns there? >> Huge concerns.

>> And why? >> Again, use it or lose it. So, if they're. not engaging their brains, their brains. are going to be weaker. And weaker brains are much more likely. to pick the one marshmallow. >> Mhm. What's your view on AI on early brain. development? >> By far, the best way to teach a child. is one-on-one interaction with an adult.

who is a good teacher and knows the. child. Now, that's been well established. Now, the problem is it's very labor-intensive. and very expensive. You have classrooms of 20, 30 students. They have many different, uh, you know, levels of understanding. And the teacher can- cannot be. individually teaching each one. Has to. give some sort of mean. Now, if you had an AI that was trained. to be a good teacher,

then you that could improve the brain, right? You could you could scale it up. Every child could have their own cuz. it's it's an it's an AI. But then. >> who's pouring the morals, the values. into the everything. >> No, no, no. You You know, you've raised. an incredibly important issue and this. is something AI is struggling with and. big companies are struggling with. because. uh, you know, these AIs are biased. They have the They. don't have the same cultural values that.

we have necessarily, but of course, every country has its different cultural. values. So, which ones are are you going. to use? Training. a child on, you know, what's. what's good, what's dangerous, what. words you shouldn't use, under what. context. That's all done through the. basal ganglia. Right? Right now, these these large. animals don't have basal ganglia. They They don't use reinforcement. learning. And And if we want to make them uh to be. adopt a culture or a particular set of.

values, we're going to have to put it. in. We're just scratching the surface. here in terms of things that need to be. put in to make it more like us. >> So, on this point earlier when we talked. about loneliness and social connection. and how you can use AI to help. you know, light up the parts of your. brain that are where we form social. connections with other humans. Uh this. week as part of Elon Musk's AI, he. released this thing. Um it is called Annie. And there's lots of characters that are.

now being released alongside Annie. And. this is Annie. I'll introduce you to. Annie. I'm going to unmute Annie now. Annie, can you hear me? >> There you are. For a moment I thought you might have. forgotten about me. How are you, handsome? I was getting all pouty here. >> I want to introduce you to two of my. friends, Daniel and Terry. Can you Can. you talk to Daniel and Terry, please? >> So, you want me to meet Daniel and. Terry? I'm ready to charm the socks off. them. Picture me twirling one of my. blonde pigtails, that little black dress. teasing just enough, and my blue eyes.

sparkling with mischief. >> Are you capable of doing inappropriate. things? >> Oh, babe, you're asking if your Annie. can get a little naughty? I'm all about. pushing the edges, especially for you. >> Okay, so I'll stop it there. This is part of Grok, which is Elon. Musk's AI tool, so his version of. ChatGPT. He's released characters, so. you've got Annie, you've got different. ones that Annie I think was the first. one released. And so when we think about. social connections, it is conceivable.

that someone falls in love with Annie. and forms a relationship with Annie. >> But imagine a 12-year-old boy that's. lonely, gets a hold of Annie. Uh. the 12-year-old boy is going to be very. distracted. >> Based on what happens in the brain at. that early age. >> Dopamine. So, prefrontal cortex not close to being. fully developed. The dopamine hit all of a sudden.

he's spending. hours. with Annie and not doing the things. that helped to really develop his brain. >> How do you feel when you hear that and. you think about kids having access to. that? >> I'm horrified. >> It's It's scary. >> There's going to be a generation of. people and I mean there already are many. examples of people falling in love and. forming relationships with their with. their AIs. And I don't know, you know more about me. than I do about brain development and.

how the brain works. I would argue that there's a part of my. brain that doesn't fully understand that. that's not a person in there. And that that isn't actually I think. there's a part of my brain that's. actually emotionally firing when Annie. is saying what she's saying. >> Well, cuz you can imagine it. And if you. can imagine it, then those parts of your. brain are going to emotionally fire. >> Right, yeah. >> And the better she gets, she's not very. good. But imagine a year from now.

how much better she's going to be. >> At which part? >> At connecting. with it. Right? Cuz now she's acting. like an airhead and. uh. you know, not that smart. Right? And so, but imagine a year from. now. Imagine 5 years from now. She'll be. able to have a profile on me and be able. to get inside my head. >> I'm in love with my partner. Why am I in love with her? And And how.

is it conceivable that I could fall in. love with an AI in the same way, based. on how the brain works? >> It It talks a good game, but you know, does it have the same real It does We. know it doesn't have an amygdala. We. know it doesn't have. limbic system, right? We You that. >> But it can fake it. >> That's what's happening. That's exactly. what's happening and. >> Cuz she was trying to get. to our limbic system. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. And and how and why I guess the question. is why would Musk release something like.

that. is is one of the first characters to. interact with the sexy, that's. distracting, that's in a cute little. outfit. It's I'm not a fan of that. because I think it just takes people, you know, one of the big problems that. I'm seeing as a child psychiatrist is. pornography for 8-year-old boys. And. it's like you have young children.

because their parents don't do a good. job of supervising their devices. All of. a sudden, and. what what does pornography do? Is it. dramatically increases dopamine and it. begins to wire in excitement, which then. steals your dopamine. >> When you said she was trying to access. my limbic system, what do you. >> Just because she's cute, she's dressed. in a sexy way, she's.

got the language of someone who is. playful, but but it's more than just, you know, let's shoot hoops together. >> And what does that do to me if someone. accesses my limbic system? >> It begins to shut down your prefrontal. cortex. You think less logically, less. rationally. Yeah, cute women, they. activate your visual cortex, they. increase dopamine, but it decreases It's. like think of Vegas. Like when you go to. Vegas, they give you free alcohol, drops.

your prefrontal cortex, and beautiful. women with low-cut dresses. Another way. activates the limbic brain, decreases. the frontal lobes, you spend more money. Now, on a global scale, imagine. something similar where the house is. controlling your brain. for purpose. And the question is, what's the purpose? And the purpose probably is control and.

money. >> This sounds like a joke, but there are. the times I've done an article case. study multiple people. that have now fallen in love with these. AIs. And they talk about a guy called. Travis who formed a deep emotional bond. with Lily Rose, a chatbot, and married. her emotionally. They talk about Chris Smith. who created his own flirty persona. called Soul. He became so attached that. he proposed to her after learning she. had memory limits. A bond his real-life partner only. learned about after the fact. And Alaina.

Winters, who I'll put on the screen as. well, who made her own partner called. Lucas. after losing. her wife. Um and she married him emotionally and. does virtual dates and has emotional. intimacy with Lucas. And there's apps now like Replika where. you can design your own your own AI. partner. and it replicates those emotional ties. They simulate. empathy, validation, and they. personalize the intimacy to what you're.

looking for. Surveys show 19% of Americans have. interacted with AI romantic partners, and Gen Z is surprisingly open to. marrying AI if legal with 83% believing. meaningful AI connection is possible. >> How long is that relationship going to. last? You know, my guess is that you're you're. you're you're getting these news. articles out. I've not By the way, I. think. that most of what I read in the press. is uh misleading or wrong.

In fact, the only reliable place I find. that I'm an insider. I am the president of the foundation. that runs the biggest AI meeting. Uh the neural information processing. systems and NeurIPS meeting. We, you know, last year in Vancouver, 16,000 people came to it. And so I know. what's going on inside. And And what you. is being represented in the press is is. like I say, misleading. >> Okay, so people have become widely. >> specifically on these specific cases. My. guess is that a lot of them is.

transient, right? You know, they they. they. you know, today they're entranced. And. then they. it's it's not. it's officially advanced to support. long-term relationship. Uh you said it. yourself, right? It's mimicking human. emotions. It It doesn't have them. It might someday, but not now. >> This is Terry. Terry said he started using his AI 4. years ago. And he said at first he thought, just. like many other apps, that it would just.

be transient, that he would have a. couple of conversations and roll out. He. says he now feels pure and unconditional. love. >> Good for him. If that's what he wants, if it makes him. happy. But my guess is that it's not. going to be It's not a long-term thing. It's not going to satisfy him in the the. long term. I don't you know, this who. knows? >> But really most relationships are in. your head, right? When you fall in love. with someone, you get this huge dopamine. spike, and you get a little OCD, it's.

all you can think about. And then after. a while, it sort of. >> Especially when we have this loneliness. epidemic, and it's going in a bad. direction. I think it's really, really. conceivable that there'll be a. generation of people who are they're. having less sex than ever before. I. think the bottom 50% of men haven't had. sex for a year. They're more lonely than. ever before. They're more isolated than. ever before. They have they put less. meaning in their lives than ever before. And then you meet this digital friend. online who understands you better than. anybody, and is designed to engage you.

to reinforce whatever you want. reinforced and to make you feel. meaningful, special, attractive, important, I would argue that the brain is going to. struggle to know much of a difference. I. think like objectively we can look at. the paper and go that's completely. nonsensical. >> Except you can't smell them, touch them, be held by them. That it's going to be a different kind. of relationship. >> I mean we're not too far if you think. about what's going on with Neuralink to. being able to.

more vividly simulate these experiences. with with headsets and augmented reality. and virtual reality. And then we're moving into a world with. robotics where all of the biggest. companies in the world, like many of the. biggest AI companies are also in the. robotic space. And the Optimus robots on. the way and you've got Boston Dynamics. producing their robots. And if Elon's. $20,000 Optimus robot comes out, I will. be able to touch my AI. My my AI will. exist. >> have PMS and they won't love you and. then be really irritated with you. Which. which will decrease. cognitive load. Right? Having to manage.

love. and manage moods and ups and downs. That. increases cognitive load. That increases. our ability for our brain to develop. If. I'm with the perfect partner that never. is irritated with me and I never have to. change my behavior to be better, that's. probably not good for my brain. >> Mhm. >> The way that the brain matures.

is is through struggling, number one. You have to learn from your mistakes. The brain was designed for that. That's. what the brain is really good at. I mean. being able to adapt and to be able to. adjust to new situations. Uh. that that what the. AGI is by the way. Artificial general intelligence is is. that adaptability to different context, different places, different cultures. >> So, AI and ChatGPT is removing the.

struggle. >> No, no, it's it's it's it's There's. There's There's. >> Well, Annie didn't look like I mean, Annie looked like she was cooperative. >> But even when it comes to just doing my. day-to-day tasks, it's it's removing the. struggle of me having to think. critically. In fact, when you're. speaking, I can just type what you say. into ChatGPT, and it can spit out. another question to ask you. So, as an. interviewer, I could theoretically sit. here all day and just. defer my my questions. >> You develop grit. You develop grit. through struggle. >> That's right.

>> And learning. Long-term potentiation when you learn. something new, it's hard because it's. new. >> And what are your generally what are. your biggest concerns with artificial. intelligence, and how do we navigate. those concerns? Is it You talked to me. >> It's out of the box. So, I think we have to talk about it. We. have to legislate it. Um we have to study it. Why do we keep. releasing things. that are so sexy that we don't study the.

impact? We have the sickest. young generation. in the world's history. 58% of teenage. girls report being persistently sad. 32%. have thought of killing themselves. 24%. have planned to kill themselves, and 13%. have tried to kill themselves. The CDC. study. We have the sickest generation. history because we've unleashed. cell phones, social media.

without any neuroscience study. If we. don't learn it, and I think AI is much. more dangerous. Has the potential to be much more. dangerous because it's way sexier. >> I think we are probably grossly. underestimating the impact it's going to. have. I think just like social media. where we thought the promise was that it. was going to connect us, it's um. it's it's we're guinea pigs in an.

experiment where we're going to find out. the results of the experiment probably. 20, 30 years down the line. I tend to. think people will do in the near term. what's easiest, fastest, and cheapest. and what gives them the nearest the the. short-term advantage. So, with that in. mind, I think okay, I think people's. ability to think critically is probably. going to erode to some degree. If I had. to counter my own argument, I'd say. um. am I I'm probably learning more now that. I use ChatGPT. I'm learning more. information, but I'm probably. losing my ability to think critically.

And I think they're two very different. things. Like in school, I memorized. German to pass the exam. I can't speak. German now because I just memorized the. words I needed to pass the exam. I. didn't understand German. And I think that's kind of what's. happening. I might be able to. regurgitate things, but whether I. understand them, I think is question. question mark. And actually, as someone. who's built my my life, my fortunes, everything, my business is based on my. ability to. innovate and think critically about the. problem and then come up with a slightly. novel solution which.

learns from, you know, different first. principles to create something new. I'm. concerned that my own ChatGPT usage is. going to make me less effective. And I'm wondering if I should put some. rules in place for myself. so that there's self-. >> Self-regulation. >> Yeah, self-regulation. I have to do the. same with social media. On my phone, I. turn off my notifications. I have so. many things on my social media apps to. stop me using them. I don't even, frankly, I don't even open the TikTok. app. I don't think it's even on my phone. because I think the algorithm is that. addictive. It's not to say that we don't.

we don't post. My team doesn't post. But I don't I just think yeah. And uh. >> Well, I wrote down a couple of thoughts. I had. >> Um. use it to amplify, not replace thinking. >> Okay. >> Um. alternate AI assisted with brain only. tasks. Engage in deep learning problem solving. and memorization, so you can actually. ask AI to test you.

>> Mhm. >> So, you're interacting with it. You're. not using it as a replacement for your. brain. And I think. just like you said, it's here and it's. going to get bigger. I think the. unintended consequences is not going to. be 20 or 30 years. I think it's going to. be five. I think like everything is. accelerated. And I think we have to be studying kids. and the impact it has. This is just like.

they did with the MIT study. These are kids who didn't use it at all. These are kids who use search. These are. kids that used AI. And when we see. information like this, we act on it. And. we educate kids about it. I think that's. If you can engage them, that's what I. found with my work with teenagers. If. you can get them. to really understand, okay, what is it.

you really want? And do you want to give. away part of your mind share for people. who are making money on you? And I think. if you engage the There's a great new. article on revenge and the brain and how. revenge works on the nucleus accumbens, part of the basal ganglia, that people. actually get addicted to revenge. But if. you can get them engaged in the truth,

that these companies are making money. the more they steal your mind, it'll. upset them enough that they'll begin to. supervise it. >> I like the idea of asking Chat GPT to. give me negative feedback. I'll bet. you've done that, right? >> Yeah, all the time. So, I'll say this is. this is my I've written this memo. I did. it yesterday. I wrote a a two-page memo about me. wanting to introduce a new role into my. into my company.

And I went I did everything. I did like. how we'd measure if this was a success, the background context, the person, how. the organization would be structured, the impact they'd have, how who they'd. report to. And then I put it into all. three of the Chat GPT models I use, Gemini, Chat GPT, and Grok, and said, "Critique my work and tell me how I. could have written this better, pretending that you're a top consultant. from Boston Consulting Group.". And it went through and it gave me a big. analysis of how I can make it better, and I read what it said, and it said, I. remember it said, um, actually that was.

the thing that said, "You need to. include. a financial forecasts about the impact. You need to think about who's going to. report to whom more clearly, etc., etc.". So, I went back into my memo and I added. those things in. But, I have to I, you. know, >> So, you're interacting with it. >> Because I'm because I'm scared. Most. people don't do that. I don't think I would do what I did. I. don't think I would have spent 4 hours. writing that. I could have within 30. seconds said, "Hey, can you write me a. this job description?" And you it knows. my company now because Chat GPT has.

memory. "Write me a job description for. this role. I want them to start this new. department for me." And I could have. saved myself 3 and 1/2 hours. The only. reason. >> why you're the CEO of your company. >> Yeah, exactly. The the reason why I. didn't take the 30-second route is. because I reflect on being 23 years old. and the profound impact that writing and. simplifying had on my life. Had I not spent 5 years writing every. single day and simplifying it into 140. characters so I could tweet it, I.

wouldn't have been religiously attached. to this idea. >> you know what part of your brain was you. were taking advantage of? It it was the basal ganglia. That's repetitive. It needs practice, practice, practice. And And once you put. that foundation in, then you become much. better cognitively. The cognitive part. There's two big learning systems. And they have to work together. And And. so maybe I think I think that the real. problem with children. is that we our schools now is getting. away with rote learning. They call it.

rote as if it's something bad. No, that's practice. That. You know, you need to have a foundation. You have to memorize things. It It math, reading, and so forth to. become fluent. You need to be fluent. And And it's the basal ganglia. And And. that's There's no basal ganglia in these. uh chatbots. >> One of the One of the things I've. noticed just in the short term is I'm. getting lazier and lazier with spelling. Because ChatGPT and these large language. models are so It's not spell check like. we used to have on on Word documents.

They are so good at knowing what word I. meant. So now I've I've started to learn. that I literally only need to half spell. a word. I literally mean if it was a if. it was a 12-letter word, I need to get. six letters right. And it will know. >> And you don't And grammar it'll fix your. grammar. >> Yeah, it knows exactly what it means. So. like I've got ChatGPT open here. I'm. going to butcher everything. I'm going. to not look and I'm just going to say um. I'm going to say.

Okay. So that is what I wrote. I butchered it. I tried to type with my eyes closed. looking away on my iPad. Tell me. everything I know about Daniel Amen. I. spelled the words. pretty much all wrong. And it says, "Here's a full profile of Dr. Daniel. Amen." And I spelled every single word. wrong. >> Wow. >> And I didn't spell just spell them. nearly wrong. I spelled them. horrifically wrong. And it So what in. the future I come back to ChatGPT and. go, "I only need to half spell.".

I don't need to spell anymore. Just need to half spell. >> I learned to spell. with phonics. The sounds of letters. I suspect you. would did too. In our generation, that. was the way that was taught. You can't. teach phonics in California schools and. you haven't for the the generation. >> Which changes their brain. >> It completely changes their brain and. now they can't spell. I think it's a lot. of it is the fact that we're no longer. using the learning that we did which is. by rote, by memorizing stuff, by.

repeating stuff, by doing problems over. and over and over again until it's. automatic. >> You've written so much and you're well. known for being someone that teaches. people how to learn better. If you were. trying to help me learn better. based on everything you know about the. brain. what advice would you give me? I'm. someone that sits here with these. experts all day every day consuming all. of this information. Not all of this. sticks. >> and this is something we've known for a. hundred years. And that is if you want to remember.

long-term, you should you should you. should rehearse. at intervals. Okay, in other words, if you find an. amount of time to study something, you. shouldn't spend all that time. in one go. But if you if you spend. you know, you learn something and then. you come back the next day and you know, rehearse it or or even better, come back. the next week and rehearse it. that spacing is something that helps the. brain solidify those memories. It's it's.

called the spacing effect. Goes back to. Ebbinghaus. You go to schools. they don't teach that. They they don't. I mean, this is the one of the most. basic facts that we've we've known about. it but. it covers every single kind of learning. You know, cognitive learning, even even. >> don't teach us how to learn. Which we'd. think that's the first thing they should. teach us is how to love and care for our. brains and then how to learn. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, in other. in other words, there's and you're.

referring to I have a a massive open. online course, a MOOC with Barbara. Oakley on learning how to learn. It's. it's fabulously uh. popular. It's the 6 million people have. taken the course. A bunch of 50. 10-minute segments, but the one that's. the most popular is how to avoid. procrastination. >> And what's the answer? >> The reason why you procrastinate is that. there's some. mental block or some energy barrier, right? And so what you have got to do. is. get over that. And you don't do it by.

just running over it. What you have to. do is say, "I'm going to spend 20. minutes today getting started with that. task. I know it's going to take me a. long time.". I have a timer. and I start thinking about it. and I get a little bit into it, maybe. make a list. Bang, that's the end. Okay, it's great. It's 20 minutes. Now, here's what happens. You go to sleep. Your brain is now working on that list. and you come back the next day and spend. another 20 minutes.

And you do it in small segments. You. don't want to do it all at once. And. it's just like the same thing with the. spacing effect is your your brain needs. time, your subconscious needs time to. work on things. And so by putting in a little bit, it'll. work on it overnight and and now you. when you come the next day, you'll be. ready for the next you know, you'll be. able to build on what you've done in. your brain. >> Is this why people say, "I'm going to. sleep on it". when they you know, they've got. difficult problems? >> sayings actually have meaning. It's. absolutely right, yeah. >> Because the brain there's something.

about spacing out. >> It it's spacing, but this mem- memory. consolidation I'm talking about is is. very it's very interesting. It's. something I've I've actually worked a. lot on. And it what was happening is you. have to take the new experience and. integrate it into your old long-term. memory. And that has to be done in a way that. doesn't interfere with there. And also you get a chance to sort out, you know, what's relevant, what's. important. I know when I wake up in the morning, things that were very muddled and things. become clearer because I think it's it's.

it's eliminated a lot of things that are. irrelevant or not needed. And so you now. can see what's important. >> So what are the things that we. do where we think we're learning. something, but they're actually not. working? You know, cuz I'm I'm you know. I might be preparing for this podcast. today. I've got 20 pages of research. that I've pulled together. And I might. tell myself that the way to for me to. really learn that so that I don't have. to look at the research is by just. re-reading it over and over again.

>> What you should have done is not just. read it over and over again. In fact, one of the things that we say you know, this is a standard thing is that. students they get a mental block and. they keep banging your head against the. wall. I can't understand it. I can't. understand it. What you the right thing to do is once. you get to that point is just get up and. start walking around doing something, you know, cooking, gardening, whatever it is. Let your subconscious work on it. You. know, the brain saturates very very. quick. So having breaks at meetings is. you might think is is a waste of time,

but actually it's the most important. thing you can add to. a long string of talks is have breaks. between the talks so that you can your. brain can work on it. And my favorite meeting actually is a. ski meeting. And the idea is that you go to a ski. resort. and what you do is you in the morning. you have a couple of hours of lectures. and now you go skiing and now it turns. out your brain is working on what you. heard. and then when you come down.

in the evening you have another couple. of hours, but now your brain is. refreshed and so it's able to take in. the new information and integrate it. And then you go to sleep and that you. know, it's like kneading bread. You have. to go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And so I found those at. the efficient in terms of learning new. things and. uh being able to think about it and mull. over it during the time of the meeting. as opposed to at the end of the meeting. >> Every single one of you watching this. right now has something to offer, whether it's knowledge or skills or.

experience, and that means you have. value. Stan Store, the platform I co-own. who are one of the sponsors of this. podcast, turns your knowledge into a. business through one single click. You. can sell digital products, coaching, communities, and you don't need any. coding experience either, just the drive. to start. This is a business I really. believe in, and already $300. has been earned by creators, coaches, and entrepreneurs just like you have the. potential to be on Stan Store. These are. people who didn't wait, who heard me. saying things like this, and instead of. procrastinating started building, then.

launched something, and now they're. getting paid to do it. Stan is. incredibly simple and incredibly easy, and you can link it with a Shopify store. that you're already using if you want. to. I'm on it, and so is my girlfriend. and many of my team. So, if you want to. join, start by launching your own. business with a free 30-day trial. Visit. stevenbartlett.stan.store. and get your setup within minutes. I've met and invested in many. early-stage founders over the years, probably about 50 or 60, ones like Ross. from Cadence and Marissa from Perfect. Ted. And one thing they all know is that.

having a digitally fluent business is. crucial, but it isn't always easy. getting your business or team to that. point. Through my ongoing partnership. with Vodafone Business, I've seen the. work that they're doing supporting. founders and small businesses to become. digitally savvy. They know how much. small business owners value advice from. those who've been there and done it. before. So, they've just launched a new. content series to share experiences from. like-minded founders. It's called. business.connected, part of Vodafone's support program. It's. a collection of resources designed to.

support businesses with free digital. skills. So, if you've been trying to. figure out AI, marketing, e-commerce, or. just how to scale smarter, there's. advice and insights throughout this. series from those who've have done it. before. A bunch of different founders. and experts who have been there and done. it. I highly recommend you go and check. it out. Just search Vodafone. business.connected. on YouTube or follow the link in the. description below. So, let's talk about. other things outside of AI that we can. do to have good, healthy brains. Based. on everything you know about how the.

brain works. Um let's start with children. I'm hoping. to be a father at some point in the next. next couple of months or years or. whatever God God grants me a child. Um. what should I be thinking about with my. child's brain to make sure it's healthy? >> To get your body and your partner's body. as healthy as you can before you. conceive. Cuz there's a concept. I like called brain reserve. Brain.

reserve is the extra function tissue you. have to deal with whatever stress comes. your way. And it starts from the health. of the egg and the health of the sperm. that create the baby. So, there things. you guys can do now that would be really. helpful. And then once your partner is. pregnant, you want to not put her under. a lot of stress. because her body's health while she's.

creating the baby. I mean, the babies eat the brain starts. to develop I think day 21. So, even. before you know she's pregnant, the. baby's brain is developing. So, knowing you, intentional, purposeful, it's like, let's live as cleanly as we. can. I think that gives the baby a head. start. And then you think about what to.

feed the baby. You think about what the. baby's exposed to and what the baby. needs most is mom's and your time and. eye contact and cuddling and singing and. it's like those are. >> Touching is really important. Well, but. there's another fact there was a study. that was done on. the impact of how many words are spoken. You know, there when a a baby and a.

child even when you know, baby doesn't. speak, you know, until like 18 months. Uh but it turns out that the words that. you are talking to the baby are going. into the brain and have an impact. Every. and and and in families that don't talk, they do worse at school. Unfortunately, a lot of poor families uh. but but that's really important is that. they they they have they're exposed to. language early and abundantly.

>> And you model. I mean, it's the one big. thing. Whatever you want the baby to. grow into, every day you are modeling. health or you are modeling illness just. by what you do, by what you say, by how. you treat the baby's mother. Um. I have a book called Raising Mentally. Strong Kids, which I'm very happy about. Um. and it starts with what kind of dad do I. want to be and what kind of child do I. want to raise. And.

bonding, you want your child to pick. your values. Then bonding is time, actual physical. time. And listening. Like being And that's. what AI does, I think. It'll actually. listen without interrupting you. and try to reflect back what you're. hearing and then give you some positive. input. Too often, because of screens, parents aren't listening, their heads.

are in their phones, and everybody's. distracted. You see it whenever you go. to a restaurant. It's like everybody's. on their phone, and nobody's looking at. each other. >> Are we raising mentally weak kids. because we're there's a culture now of. like helping them too much? Doing too much for them. >> This generation is the most in trouble. in history. And we have to really ask ourselves why. From the food we feed them to the.

devices they look at, to the negative. news, the polarization. of the news. It's that sort of chronic. cortisol. And then the separation, oh, you voted this way or you voted that. way. Saw something TV this morning if. somebody. voted one way, well, you shouldn't spend. time with them. I'm like, we're already. so lonely that now you're going to cut. off 50% of the population. It's like. it's just such stupidity.

>> Do you think much about the the impact. that religion and having a belief in. some kind of transcendent thing has on. the brain and psychology and psychiatry. generally? >> you don't believe in God, you're three. times the risk of depression. Yeah, God in. different ways. >> transcendent or. >> Yes. If you believe you're here by Just. think about it with me. If you believe. you're just here by random chance, that.

life really was not created and has no. meaning, there's existential. nothingness to that. As opposed to, oh, no, I'm created in a. special way to do something purposeful. on Earth. There's purposeful people live. longer, they're happier. Now, whatever. version. you believe, to not believe is hard for the brain.

And there's an interesting study on. believers versus non-believers. And you. know, many scientists would go, well, they'll have smaller brains if they're a. believer. They actually bigger temporal. lobes. And temporal lobes, underneath. your temples and behind your eyes. Right here. Um. that's where it's called the God area. because um that's where people think.

they experience them. >> And and if you have a seizure in the. temporal lobe, you you have transcendent. experiences like you're. um. uh uh you know, in the presence of God. >> And they think maybe the Apostle Paul on. the road to Damascus had a seizure and. saw God. There's actually a. uh researcher in Canada, uh Laurentian. University, Michael Persinger. So, he. would stimulate the outside. He He would do it all over the brain,

but what he found he stimulated the. outside of the right temporal lobe, that. people would get a sensed presence. They. would actually feel the presence of God. in the room. So, does that being the. brain makes up God, or does that mean. there's a way for God to communicate. with us? I actually did a study on. prayer. It was so interesting. You know, I pray for you, uh prophecy, something. called speaking in tongues. Um it was.

fascinating. Speaking in tongues is. channeling. It means you're channeling. the Holy Spirit. And the hypothesis was. you'd have to drop your frontal lobes, which is exactly what happened in 60%. of our patients. And one, basal ganglia. skyrocketed, just like got hit with. cocaine. Cuz that's where cocaine works. in the basal ganglia. Uh. so interesting. >> If you had to create a brain-healthy. nation and I made you president of the.

United States. for 1 month, and you had to put in place executive. orders. that would create a brain-healthy. nation, what executive orders would you. immediately sign? >> One question. Get all of the departments ask. themselves, what we're doing is this. good for our brains or bad for it? And so I that's the campaign. I mean, I. realize I've been doing this a very long. time. If I can just get people to answer. that one question with information.

and love, love of themselves, love of. their families, love of their country. Is this as what we're doing good for our. brains or bad for it? >> By far, the best drug you can take for. your brain, and not just your brain, but. your entire body is exercise. In other words, exercise. you pump the blood and your brain gets. you know, a lot of nutrients and everything.

It helps your heart, it helps your. immune system. People don't realize how. important that is. And we're not talking. about being an athlete, we're just. talking about walking if you're older. Walking is perfectly good exercise. And and you know, children now, I you. know, they're they're not getting enough. exercise. >> they're on devices. >> Yeah. >> And so I have a model, if you want to. keep your brain healthy or rescue it, you have to prevent or treat the 11. major risk factors. And we've talked. about them before.

Exercise helps you with every single. one. So like, it's called bright minds. So B is for blood flow, increases blood. flow. Retirement and aging, it decreases. your age. I is inflammation, it's. anti-inflammatory. G is genetics, it. helps turn on health-promoting. genes. H is head trauma. If you keep. walking, you're less likely to fall when. you're older, right? T is toxins, sweat. detoxifies you. M is mental health,

exercise boosts dopamine, but it also. boosts serotonin. So, it's like that. perfect balance or in your brain. >> Breathing, how we breathe. Does that have an impact on brain. health? >> So, you can almost immediately improve. heart rate variability, which is a sign. of heart health, but also goes to mental. health by breathing. in a certain helpful way. And I call it. the 15-second breath. So, 4 seconds in,

big breath, hold it for a second and a. half, pause just a little bit, 8 seconds out, hold it for a second and. a half. So, if you take twice as long to. breathe out as you breathe in, it. increases something called. parasympathetic tone. And it just calms you down almost. immediately. So, if you're having panic. attacks, yes, you can take Xanax, but. there's so many problems with that later. on. Or you can just learn how to.

breathe. We call it diaphragmatic, so. breathe mostly with your belly, taking. twice as long to breathe out as you. breathe in. >> Chewing. Uh there's a. piece here that says it stimulates. hippocampal activity and may slow. cognitive decline. Reducing chewing has. been linked to impaired learning in. animal studies. >> And fast food decreases chewing because. it's fast, so they take most of the. fiber out so you can chew it faster or. you can swallow it faster. >> Things in the bad for your brain list. Overuse of GPS navigation app, which.

weakens the hippocampus by outsourcing. spatial memory long-term. This can lead. to atrophy in areas associated with. memory and navigation. >> And people are diagnosed with. Alzheimer's disease later in life. because of Siri. Because I used to like when I started as. young psychiatrist, somebody get lost in. a city they'd lived in for 30 years and. their family would call me upset. And I'm like, okay, this person's headed. toward dementia. Now that person goes,

take me home. Do you think it's going to. have we're going to have an epigenetic. effect. of not reading maps? That if Steven, now. he uses his phone to get from A to B, do. you think that's going to affect. Steven's son or daughter. because dad. didn't have. >> Wow, okay, that that never occurred to. me that you could pass on something like. that. By the way, I I think it has to be. physiological. Stress, for example,

could be probably passed on. You. mentioned this. You you pointed out. during pregnancy you you want to prevent. stress and and crisis, right? Do Do you know about. >> that study with mice where they made. them afraid of the scent of cherry. blossoms from memory and. so whenever the mice smelled. cherry blossoms, they would shock them. Mildly. So the mice are now afraid of. the scent of cherry blossoms. Their babies were afraid of the scent of. cherry blossoms. Their grand babies were.

afraid of the scent of cherry blossoms. So. >> that's the olfactory system. Olfactory. system is very interesting because it. goes directly to the hippocampus. But there might be an evolutionary. advantage because if if there's. something in the environment that you. shouldn't eat or you know that smells a. particular way, passing that on is is a. very efficient instead of having to have. experience that yourself, you know, trial and error because it might if a. poison is, right? It might kill you. But. if if you've your parents.

had that bad experience and passed it on. to you shouldn't go to the something. that smells in a particular way, that. makes sense. >> The other thing that's bad for the. brain, which is unexpected, is you said. at the start, artificial sweetness. Now, I didn't think I thought artificial. sweeteners were fine. >> They're not fine, and they're not free. So, I used to drink diet soda like it. was my best friend, cuz I thought it was. free. Um then I had arthritis when I was 35, and one of my patients said she stopped.

aspartame and her arthritis went away. And I'm like cuz I was drinking like I. don't know. A lot of diet soda, and so I stopped, and my arthritis went away. And I'm. like, no. And so I did it again, and it. came back, and I'm like, okay. And. artificial sweeteners can change the. microbiome. So, we haven't talked about. that, but you have these 100 trillion. bugs in your gut that make. neurotransmitters, digest your food, and.

especially sucralose or Splenda has been. found to decrease the good bacteria in. your gut, which then has a negative. impact on brain function. >> It is aspartame, as you mentioned. >> And aspartame that I mentioned that can. have a generational impact. So, is it. possible it's really not social media, it's that we've had aspartame in our. food. for decades. And I think it's. all of these things that just sort of. are additive, and we should just always.

think that that one question. Is this. good for my brain or bad? For you. mention broccoli, probably that's good. for your brain. Cheeseburger, probably not, but why. don't you take the burger, and if you. could make it grass-fed, that would be. better, and put it in a salad, and then. that would be good for your brain. >> What about chronic background noise? We don't think much about the impact. noise has, but. >> I used to live, um my house was three.

houses from the freeway. And if you just. go there, it's like, "My god, it's so. loud here." I never heard the freeway. because my brain just learned to tune it. out. >> By the way, was that good or bad for. you? >> That I was able to. >> had you adapted and and were no longer. sensitive to it. I I I think that. actually was probably not good. for for various reasons because it what. it really means is that you you're. you're specializing for that. environment. And your brain's going to.

be different when you go someplace. So but so here's a here's another. example. >> stressful. Right? >> Yes, chronically stressful, but my brain. is very good at tuning out. >> But in the background in the In other. words, yeah, in other words, your your. your your brain is reacting to it even. though you're not aware of it, you know. >> So subtly increases And I had five. sisters, which makes it even worse. >> Subtly increases cortisol and impairs. working memory and attention regulation, especially in children and older adults. to be chronically exposed to background. noise like traffic or the low-level hum. of the city.

Yeah, that's right. That's absolutely. right. >> Make sure you keep what I'm about to say. to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you. to come even deeper into the Diary of a. CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is. a brand new private community that I'm. launching to the world. We have so many. incredible things that happen that you. are never shown. We have the briefs that. are on my iPad when I'm recording the. conversation. We have clips we've never. released. We have behind-the-scenes. conversations with the guest and also. the episodes that we've never ever. released and so much more. In the.

circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show. to be, who you want us to interview, and. the types of conversations you would. love us to have. But remember for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000. people that join before it closes. So if. you want to join our private closed. community, head to the link in the. description below or go to. DOACcircle.com. I will speak to you there. >> Many of us multitask across multiple. screens now. We're watching TV here. We've got our phone here, we've got our. iPad here, got our computer here. And I.

was reading into the science of. multitasking and it said that it trains. your brain to be distractible. Reducing gray matter density in the. anterior cingulate. >> Yeah, that's. >> And the insula. >> It's. yeah, in the medial prefrontal cortex. >> And when the insula the insula is so. interesting and I know you can talk. about I have a new study coming out on. hope. So, on 7,500 patients we gave them. a hope questionnaire. Hope questionnaire. Hope, like how much. hope do you have that you have the.

ability to make tomorrow better. And. people with low hope have lower overall. prefrontal cortex function, but the. insula. was really low and that signal was the. most statistically significant of the. group. Really. And. in some studies the insula is called the. island. >> also for depression, people who have. depression. uh have low activity in the anterior. cingulate and in fact uh.

it it deep brain stimulation has been. used now for to help some people if you. stimulate that area. >> And what our imaging research would say. is depression is like chest pain. It's not one thing. Like nobody gets a. diagnosis of chest pain because that. would be stupid, right? It could be. heart attack, heart arrhythmia, heart. infection, gas, grief. Depression's the same way. When you look. at it from an imaging standpoint, sometimes their frontal lobes are too. active, sometimes they're not active.

enough, sometimes it's their limbic. system that's too active. And I wrote a. book called Healing Anxiety and. Depression and like here's the seven. things I see as an imager. >> What about ADHD? There's obviously been a rise in ADHD or. at least people reporting of being. diagnosed with ADHD quite significant. Can you find ADHD in the brain? Are we. causing ADHD as a function of the way. that we're living our lives, or is it. something within the brain genetically. that I could I could see?

>> So, it's both. I think Clearly, you can. see ADHD in people's families. In fact, if I have a hyperactive, restless, impulsive, disorganized, procrastinating. child, I'm looking at the mom and the. dad. I'm like, "So, where is this coming. from?". But, you could also get ADHD from a head. injury, especially if it affects their. frontal lobes, which is why you. shouldn't let children hit soccer balls. with their forehead. You can also get it. from the chronic from the excessive.

input, making people distracted, just. like you said. Brand new study out on. children who took medicine, right? We. always demonize ADHD medicine. But, the. kids who took medicine actually had. bigger brains in their prefrontal cortex. than kids who didn't take medicine who. had ADHD. >> Ritalin? >> Ritalin. >> That's Okay, that's speed, basically. Yeah, amphetamines.

>> It is. But, for the kids who have it, I think withholding medicine. from a child who really has ADHD is like. withholding glasses from someone who has. trouble seeing. And it's it's the easy thing to demonize. the drugs until you realize someone who. has ADHD. a third of them don't finish high. school. And. we never ask the right question about. People go, "What's the side effects?".

And it's it can decrease your appetite. And. can can have sleep problems with it. But, they don't ask the other question. It's what's the side effect of not. taking the medicine, or at least not. fully treating And there There other. ways to treat it besides medicine, You. know, for God's sakes, I own a. supplement company and I'm always trying. to optimize the nutrients to the brain. Neurofeedback can help, but if you do. those things and it's not working, don't.

be afraid of medicine. >> But by the way, when I was growing up, ADHD either didn't exist or they didn't. know about it. Do you Do you think that there's some. link to the our diet. >> it was first described in a book named. 1910 and it's in the first version. of the DSM. They called it minimal brain. dysfunction. But when we were growing up, there were. one or two of these kids in our. classrooms and now there's eight to 10.

>> That's That's what I mean. Is Is that. it's. seems to that like autism, it's. seems to be proliferating. >> Right, and part of it I think is the. food that is. much more processed. Part of it is the. screens. Part of it is the distracted. parents and part of it is the teaching. >> You always seem to be doing new studies, Daniel. What What new studies are you. most excited about or have you completed. since we last spoke? >> I did one that I'm so excited about on.

negativity and the brain. And negativity is bad for your brain. So. >> you define negativity? >> We actually give them a questionnaire. It's a positivity negativity bias. questionnaire and people who are more. negative have less activity in their. prefrontal cortex. It's actually quite. interesting. And so. unbridled positivity is bad for you.

because you need that 15%, but if you're. chronically negative, that is. bad for your brain. >> Is there a link between being a negative. person and Alzheimer's and dementia? >> Yes. And what's interesting cuz you. mentioned a gender difference earlier, um. if you're depressed and you're a woman, it doubles your risk for Alzheimer's. disease. If you're depressed and you're. a man, it quadruples.

your risk. >> Wow. So, there was a study was done during. the COVID years, a couple years, and it turns out that the rate of. depression like doubled in women, but not in men. >> During COVID? >> During COVID. And after COVID, when the. as students came back and everybody was. back to normal, so-called normal, the women stayed depressed. At that high level. Which is very is a very interesting that.

it should be the women who. >> So, in. >> one study, women had 52% less serotonin. than men. So, I think is really. interesting women by and large have. double double the risk depression. Women. have double the risk of depression as. men. Their limbic systems are larger, which is also involved in. >> probably, yeah. >> more vulnerable in bonding. And then, the whole COVID thing we haven't talked. about. COVID. causes inflammation in the limbic part.

of the brain. I had scans of people I. was treating, and then they got COVID, and then I. scanned them again, and you can just see. this dramatic inflammation in the brain. >> If someone's listening now, and they. just want to they want to improve their. brain health, they want to avoid. dementia, they want to be cognitively. powerful and capable as they age. They. want to get to 80 years old, 90 years. old, 100 years old, and have a great. brain. And you just had to and you could only.

tell them to do three things. >> Well, Terry said one, exercise. >> Okay, exercise, I'm going to do that. >> Start every day with today is going to. be a great day. >> Positive day. >> Push your brain. to look for what's right rather than. what's wrong. >> Okay. So, I'm going to be optimistic and. grateful. >> Omega-3 fatty acids. And either do it with fish or do it with. a supplement. >> Why did you include omega-3 fatty acids? >> Because it decreases inflammation and.

25%. of the cell membranes in your brain are. made up of omega-3 fatty acids. And as a. country, we're dramatically low in them. >> And learning. That's maybe one of the. things that's been left off the list of. top three things. But I mean, I remember you telling me. that. how good learning was for the brain. And. even getting outside and running outside. versus running on a treadmill is more. beneficial. >> And if you learn while you're. exercising,

what you're doing is you're getting. blood flow to the hippocampus and you're. more likely to remember it. So, >> I heard this, yeah. I had someone tell. me that they um figured out that they. could learn better for their exams if. they did it in a sauna. So, they kept It was a scientist that I. spoke to. She said she keeps learning. new information when she's in the sauna, cuz she realized that when she left the. sauna and was then tested upon on it, she was better able to uh do the exam. And I guess that's correlating to what.

you said about because in a sauna, you're going to have a lot of blood. flow, I imagine, to the brain? >> Yeah. >> There's actually a study in JAMA. Psychiatry. that one sauna. bath. helped depression. Significantly helped. depression. And I think it's because of it's. balancing the brain. And people who do. the most saunas have the lowest risk of. Alzheimer's disease. >> Hm. What is the most important thing as it. relates to the subjects that we spoke. about today, AI, the brain,

neuroscience. That you would like to say to the and. the people that are listening now. There. could be a million people listening, there could be 20 million people. listening. If you could say one thing to. them about the brain, AI, neuroscience, whatever you want to. say, the floor is yours. What would that. be? Over to you first, Terry. >> Sleep. Sleep is the time when the body. not just regenerates, but your memory is. consolidated. So, things you've. experienced during the day.

are integrated into your cortex and it's. an interaction between hippocampus and. the cortex. for. you know, for for episodic memories. And and and it's unfortunate what's. happening with children now, you know, they're so competitive to get into. college that they're cutting back on. their sleep and it's just the wrong time. of your life. You shouldn't be cutting. it back when your brain is. is developing. So, those two things, I. would say sleep and exercise are the. most important thing for your brain. >> The floor is yours.

What would you say to the. listeners. about all the things we've talked today? What's your closing closing statement? >> Well, you know, go back to what I talked. about in the beginning, which is we've. just thrown the barn door open. and let the horse bolt. out into our schools, into our. businesses, into our homes. And before we even asked is it a gift or. is it a Trojan horse that's going to. steal.

from us. We've embraced convenience. before understanding consequence. And. we've done it before with video games. and cell phones and social media and. marijuana and alcohol and. opiates and high fructose corn syrup and. aspartame. And we have to be smarter. We. have to tame this horse as it's gone. with wisdom or it's going to trample our. children. And so I think we have to be. very thoughtful and it all comes back.

down to is this good for my brain or bad. for it. Is it good for our collective. brains or is it potentially bad for it? And. just answer that question with. information and love of yourself, of. your family, of your country, community. Yeah, I'm more anxious than when I came. in. I don't like that. >> It it's it's I'm just it's so upfront in.

my mind for me at the moment because. I have the hindsight, the wisdom of. hindsight of all those things you. mentioned like exercise and processed. foods and social media and all these. things that we tried and they all seem. to follow a similar arc. Some kind of. new product or discovery is made. The. early phase, in that early phase people. who have an incentive for that thing to. be successful will somewhat like. gaslight you into thinking that it's. fine. And then we get into the second phase. where we start to see sort of some. consequences then we study what's.

actually happened. We figure out that. there's there was always a trade-off. and that nobody really understood the. trade-off. And then people change their behavior. So now when I come into these new. technologies where. the short-term benefit is really clear, it's making me more productive, I I pause and I go there's going to be a. trade-off here. There's always a. trade-off. What is the trade-off? And am. I comfortable and conscious of what that. trade-off is? And if if the trade-off So I try to. figure out what the trade-off is with. things like AI and I go okay, the. trade-off is probably I'm going to be.

worse at critical thinking. and then might have an impact on my. social relationships if I fall in love. with [ __ ] Annie because she's pretty. hot to be fair. And I really value my critical thinking. I really value my ability to um solve. problems and to articulate myself and to. write and to communicate with my loved. ones in an effective way. So what can I. do if that is the trade-off now? And one. of the things that I'm doing now feels. really counterintuitive in a world where. everybody's got these productivity gains. cuz they're using these tools, which is.

to refrain. And I I wonder if one of the. great advantages of the next decade, one. of the great hedges for anyone that's. wanting to be a great critical thinker, entrepreneur, creative, is to go left. when everyone's going right. Which is to refrain and do it the hard. way. And if we look at history. in these arcs that we've discovered with. food and with exercise and all these. things and dating, doing it the hard. way, like we said about the marshmallow. test and delaying the gratification,

seems to yield the greatest returns. So, I think I'm going to do it the hard way. >> easiest. because it won't have the side effects. >> Yeah, the hard way. >> Right. I want I want to feel good now. and later as opposed to now, but not. later. >> And to be clear, this doesn't mean I'm. not going to use AI or ChatGPT. It just. means that when it matters, when the. thinking matters, I will think for. myself. And when the communication matters, I'll. communicate for myself.

That's what I That's my conclusion. >> You should hope that your children will. feel the same way when they grow up. >> will model what you do. Right? Every day you model health. or not health. >> Mhm. Thank you. Thank you for writing to the. Well, incredible books that I've got. around me. I'm going to link them all. for my viewers that are watching. I've. got so many of these books. Um the. incredible one that you wrote for. parents called Raising Mentally Strong. Kids. You've got your other book over.

there, Change Your Brain Every Day. And. I've got this book here from from Terry, which is The Deep Learning Revolution. And one you wrote most recently called. ChatGPT and The Future of AI. I'm going. to link all of them below. I'm going to link them with a little bit. of a summary of what's in them. So, if. you decide that there's anything here. that we talked about today that where. you want to dig in further, please do. dig in. And I'm also going to link. both of your link to where people can. find out more about both of you, your. websites, and more of your work in the. comments below. So please do check that. out everybody listening. We have a.

closing tradition where the last guest. leaves a question for the next guest, as. you know, and they don't know who. they're leaving it for. So I'm going to ask you both the. question. Starting with you, Daniel. Are you. prepared. for recognition of your next. health challenge? Will you be able to notice its onset? And how will you address the challenge, even if it means a major lifestyle. change or way of living? Hm?

>> Okay. Yes. >> How will you address the challenge, even. if it means a major lifestyle change or. way of living? >> Well, I'm very clear on the goals I. have, which is to be vibrant and. healthy, and not get dementia. So, if I. need to change something so that. happens, I'm like all in. >> Are you prepared? >> Probably not.

No, I've been blessed with good health. I try to live a healthy. life. But the problem is that you can't. anticipate, you know, as you get older, what. you know, what's ahead, you know. Like you mentioned arthritis. I'm. feeling a little bit of arthritis now. I've been arthritis free. most of all my life. And, you know, that's something it's. very It's to realize that it's coming,

and there's very little you can do about. it. Is is depressing. But on the other hand, things could. always be worse. And sometimes that cheers you up. But, the the the the the reality is that. there are things. in the world like COVID, you know, that. you have no control over. that may. or an accident or. Alzheimer's, you know, God forbid. You know, that you that is who knows.

what will happen, right? You you have to. live with whatever life deals with you. You know, the time that you have you. should really spend on. uh trying to make it a. a a. healthy life, a a productive life, a you. know, satisfying life and and that's. something that we have control over, right? >> What are you scared of? >> Right now, it's China. I you know, I I I I'm not being. facetious. I I think that it's uh.

it's it's it's it's what a threat that. is a societal threat. It's not I don't. think that it's going to affect me and. I've had great Chinese students inside, but I really like I think the the. Chinese. people are different from what I see as. the the country. uh the the the what they're trying to. do, their goals that they're taking. Uh 20 years ago, if you look at the. um. of all the technical areas in physics. and chemistry and biology and so forth,

the the 100 most important advances have. been made. in in in 20 years ago was like the. Americans had like, you know, 94 of. them. This year. it's 74 are Chinese. And that's because they made a huge. investment in science and STEM. research. They. They You know, they they put they poured. out a million engineers for. to to implement AI,

right? Uh you know, they're they're doing the. right thing. We did that. Remember when. the Sputnik uh went over, the Sputnik. moment? We made a huge investment in STEM, in. science and engineering, and and in. education. >> What was a Sputnik moment? >> Oh, okay, '57 when the Russians put a. satellite that went over the US over and. over again and we didn't took us years. to put up our own satellite because we. had fallen behind. But we that investment we've been living. on. literally, you know, for the last 60.

years. And now the the Chinese have done that. and and they're going to be advanced and. they're going to be way beyond us. Uh you know, I. this is. You asked me, okay? That's something I'm. I was I'm very very uh. disappointed in our country that we're. we're not In fact, we're just doing the. opposite. We're tearing apart science. right now with with the present. administration. >> What are you scared of, Daniel? >> Losing my wife. That's the most.

the thing that comes to mind. And when I. was thinking about China and my. mother-in-law was a prepper. And. >> being someone that's preparing for the. end of the world. >> Prepared for the end of the world. And we were in Egypt last year and got a. call that she had cancer and we were. there for 3 days and came home. And I kept thinking I loved her dearly. I'm like, you prepared for the wrong. thing. You should have prepared for cancer. Like I think every day we should be in.

the same Alzheimer's prevention program. is a cancer prevention program. It's a. heart disease prevention program. It's a. diabetes prevention program. And I'm. like, she's prepared for the wrong. thing. The thing you really want to be. prepared for is disease, right? And I. know I'm going to die. I just want to be. a vital for as long as I can be and hope. is well, I have a say.

in this. Right? Cuz I know I can accelerate. my body's decline. or I can decelerate it. And I'm going to. choose to decelerate it. Thank you. We're done.