Billy McFarland: The Man Behind The Infamous Fyre Festival Disaster | E202

were you nervous coming here today. I didn't know how in depth we were going. to go if I knew the questions I don't. think go to slept last night but you. were pathological liar Billy McFarland. he is the band behind the infamous fire. Festival Island Getaway turned disaster. for fire Festival is the subject of two. documentaries I will never forget when. did you realize. so wrong we were at the point where the. timeline I had come up with was just so. off I'd wake up some days it's like we.

need four million dollars by 2PM did no. one say to you this is [ __ ] craziness. I just didn't have the ability to like. okay like what's actually happening how. can we prevent this and like almost like. as if On Cue. a storm rolls in Billy McFarland pleaded. guilty to fraud charges sentenced to six. years in prison you come back to a. shitstorm yeah the criminality doesn't. stop though does it but I couldn't like. really understand the magnitude and the. gravity of the crime they did commit. your lawyers tried to get you off the. 20-year prison sentence by saying that. you suffered from untreated bipolar.

disorder do you have bipolar disorder. um. I did two cents in solitary the seven. month stint was because I tried to do a. podcast over at the Payphone they put. the paperwork in to send me to like a. terrorist facility when you're rendered. useless and Powerless bat just kind of. kills your Humanity that's [ __ ] scary. that keeps me up at night. Andy King. did you ask him to suck a penis here's. what actually happened.

before this episode starts I have a. small favor to ask from you two months. ago 74 of people that watch this channel. didn't subscribe we're now down to 69 my. goal is 50 so if you've ever liked any. of the videos we've posted if you like. this channel can you do me a quick favor. and hit the Subscribe button it helps. this channel more than you know and the. bigger the channel gets as you've seen. the bigger the guests get thank you and. enjoy this episode. foreign.

[Music]. how are you doing it's been crazy uh. a little less than three and a half. months since my sentence ended. and really just been a whirlwind of. finding the right people finding the. right opportunities. and really just dealing with this. overhang of Probation and the constant. fear that there's someone out there who. could send me back at any time by taking. a wrong turn so.

trying to avoid paying people back in. every sense of that word and emotion. while dealing with this fear that I can. wake up one more into a phone call. saying ha like joke's over you're going. back. so take me back um one of the things I'm. so curious about everybody that I sit. here and talk to is their earliest. context in the early start bringing and. how that's like ultimately shaped who. they are today so take me way way back. to New Jersey when you were you know. under the age of 10 what was that what. was your context your parents the the.

situation in which you grew up yeah I. grew up in a pretty normal suburban. American household and I think the. defining moment was. when I was 10 years old were I got a. cable internet line into my house and. this was the really early days of the. internet and it was pretty much like the. Wild Wild West era where a lot of like. the framework and Regulation and mature. social platforms that we have now just. didn't exist then we were in the.

emphasis of like HTML and CSS and the. practicality and accessibility of some. 10 year old putting a website online. and I really found the internet to be. this Outlet where I could push the. boundaries of everything that I thought. was possible as this young Suburban. child and really as a way to start. getting in trouble and seeing what it. was like to get in trouble and see where. I could go. talk to me about your parents I've not. heard um much about them in your. interviews but I'd love to know the. influence they had on you and how that.

shaped you I think they're great you. know super loving super supportive and I. think I've been asked this question you. know so many times but whether it's like. the jail therapists like or the. information department and. I think it's interesting that you know. there isn't like a defining moment I. think that kind of set me down like the. entrepreneurial Journey. um. I think I was just like really weird in. this desire to make my own path. and to really test what was possible and. so it's always kind of looking for. Journeys to start businesses and really.

like test the bounds of you know of. reality and of the constraints placed on. me at various times in life and. obviously like the constraints of a. ten-year-old are much different than. they were when I was 24 in the midst of. the fire festival and much different at. 27 in solitary confinement but I think. the reoccurring theme was trying to find. ways to test those restraints and that. took me to the very best times but also. the very worst times in doing four years. in prison and you know owing the world.

whether that's time money friendship and. apology uh so yeah it's been been quite. the journey my question still becomes. like why though so testing the. restraints of like what was possible why. does a kid want to do that like what was. it about about you when you were that. age and your childhood or the. circumstances you found yourself in or. you know what Behavior was being. reinforced and what Behavior was being. punished that made you go off on that. Journey you referenced a sort of a. jailhouse therapist and then probably. asking you these kind of questions as. well yeah did you learn anything about.

yourself from that those conversations. totally and. I I think there's always been this. desire to prove that I was different and. I don't think. I really understood like what different. meant I don't think it meant trying to. be like the smartest or the most. interesting I was like trying to prove. that I could create my own path and I. think that's always why been the desire. why did you want to create your empath. and prove that I hear this word proving. a lot throughout your story like a. desire to prove yourself right and prove.

yourself to others it comes up over and. over again in the conversations you've. had where did that desire to prove. yourself come from. I think yeah I remember back to like. getting an alpha Smart in you know early. grammar school and I was so desperate to. like hack the teachers like admin. password for the alpha smart to change. the settings on it and just wanted to. show or I think is really proving to. myself that I could do something. different and. I never really did well in terms of like.

a structured like learning environment I. was always either like super. disinterested or very very passionate. about something whether it's technology. or computers the Internet and just like. want to dive in and just like almost. testing against myself that I was. possible and what wasn't possible. did those around you like teachers and. your parents have high hopes for you in. your opinion. I think so but they were also you know. I don't want to I don't like the word. like realistic I think they're very like. realistic and structured hopes and my. path was certainly frowned upon by.

teachers you know friends uh Etc. throughout the years even when you were. younger people even when I was younger. yeah I think like teachers were always. concerned that like why is he starting a. business and not focusing on his you. know math test so it was it was a. problem since a young age do you. remember getting sort of like critical. or pessimistic feedback at a young age. about your Ambitions and what was. possible for you yeah absolutely and. give me some examples yeah so it's like. uh. I had started a social network a couple.

of years later when I was 12 years old. and. this is early days in my space before. Facebook had really gone outside of like. Harvard in the initial Ivy League. schools I created a private Social. Network for my middle school and like. out of nowhere like the site blew up and. you know it was like the talk in middle. school for a few days and the teachers. basically called me in and said like the. internet is not safe you know you have. to stop this right now you have to get. rid of the website and how did that make. you feel. it made me feel like I thought I was. creating something of value but I felt. like that what I viewed as value wasn't.

you know agreed upon by everybody else. they'd almost create this like. reinforcement we're like no I know this. is tangible I know this is real and I. know people like are enjoying something. I made and I felt it was just so cool to. have at the time it was hundreds of. people whatever but having hundreds or a. couple thousand people using something I. made as a 12 year old was just really. really interesting to me and I think it. kind of created this. deeper desele and like desire to prove. whether it was to those teachers or to. the friends who like weren't supportive. that there is a different way than you.

know the way that we're all taught what. did your parents want you to be you know. like I think my mom wanted me to be I. actually remember my mom's from from. Nigeria she didn't get an education like. uh we do I was born in Botswana in. Africa as well and my mum I think wanted. me to be a doctor or a lawyer okay I. think she was set actually on Doctor. what did your parents want you to be in. your own opinion I don't think they. really cared as long as I followed the. traditional path of like super studying. hard school doing well going to a good. college having a good college experience.

I think beyond that. um didn't really care too much I went to. school to study Computer Engineering. didn't last very long so didn't really. you know study Computer Engineering but. that was the uh that was the intent. what's the defining difference between. both of them you know like my mother is. x in terms of characteristics my father. is why what other if you had to describe. them in a couple of words each what. words would you use I think. entrepreneurial uh you know quick like. in terms of like you know quick minds. are sharp they're smart and like honest. I think like Integrity is like the big.

thing they're very honest good people. and like that's you know has been part. of the hardest part to me is them and. not just them it's like other family. members and friends trying to understand. how it could go down this path where I. was just lying and you know lying to. investors and partners and employees and. whatever it may have been it's like. understanding how I got there. from you know the the path I had taken. have you had that conversation with them. I have and. it comes down to I think you've you've.

nailed it super early on it was just his. desire and I think more than a desire. probably a need to prove myself and fast. forward many many years later with like. fire in the fire Festival that need was. to these these investors who basically. took a chance at me when I first dropped. out of school and had been backing me. for five six seven years before the fire. Festival came to be like. my life I felt and it sounds so silly to. me now but my life I felt to me at that. time was making them happy and making.

them money and obviously like the. initial investors if fire didn't work. and didn't work honestly they probably. would have been okay and they would have. been far more understanding than the. fact that I ended up lying at the end to. get their support but it's like need to. prove that I could do it and the ones. who did believe in me the need to prove. that they were right to believe in me. really led me down this terrible. terrible path of however long it was. where I was lying that need to prove. myself. um it can it can go on some fantastic.

results in life because you end up. striving and being ambitious and it acts. as a source of motivation but then it. can also. um because I can relate to it it can. also get ugly at some point when that. need overshadows the need to be like. ethical or to even have work-life. balance whatever it might be. have you ever managed in all the time. you've had to reflect on it have you. figured out why you of all people had. that and used the word need not not. desire you you refer to it as a need to. prove yourself like where did that come.

from do you do you know I don't know. um. and as I said I've been asked so many. times by people obviously not as smart. as you but I've been asked by a lot of. people and I don't think I've given a. good enough answer and that's probably. something that. I need to think about because it's. dangerous if you you know I'm thinking. about self-awareness here and if that's. still driving you from the back room of. your subconscious. um where that might take you again in. the future right. agree and I think it's more about where. I can find fulfillment and making people.

happy because they've made money or. invest in a success. probably is most likely the wrong. formula in a lot of different situations. and I think like especially prison has. made me very very relationship focused. and I feel a stronger need to be trusted. by someone more than to make them happy. and I think that's the furthest area. that I've improved in over the past five. years I've never had you talk about the. um the conversations with your parents.

in the wake of everything that happened. and. what what have been those conversations. if I was privy to some of those. conversations in person what would I. have seen. yeah I think I've just. tried to find a way to apologize and. it's been to everybody it's been to. close friends who I think were hurt. emotionally as well other family members. other supporters and it's like trying to. explain to them like why and finding the. real words to apologize.

and. it was just so crazy as I've had all. this time to obviously reflect about it. how. I thought I was trying to make people. happy but I was really just like burning. down these relationships and hurting. them along the way and it's just how. messed up that pursuant path really was. have you actually apologized to your. parents oh absolutely yes. and what's their stance been throughout. jail and before and even now how what's. their perspective been.

it's been like. close family is different because. obviously we're in touch and you know. everybody. families your family and I think for. like childhood friends who I was. probably closer with like on an. emotional level it's been a little weird. when I essentially was on the sideline. in a way for four years or whatever the. time frame was and then during that time. I'm kind of sheltered from like the. media and the comments and everything. like I don't necessarily hear or even. see everything that's happening and so. like the bulk of that is directed.

towards other people like whether it's. family or friends so after so long of. like being The Target just because I'm. not there to be the target they start to. like you know form different opinions. and their minds start to wander and then. I think when I've seen people for the. first time like since jail and then I. can kind of see like a switch flip in. their head after like four or five. minutes like oh okay he's the old Billy. that I used to know and they start like. acting normal again which like really. crazy to me that when I was in jail I. just didn't really understand or. appreciate the terrible [ __ ] basically.

that close people to me had to go. through just because I wasn't like. available to. be at the receiving end of everything. that's happened what did they go through. I think like the the emotional trauma. right and people are looking to blame. someone and to you know throw shade and. hate and I deservedly say I want someone. and if I'm not there like to be able to. take that hake some physically locked. away somewhere people need a target for. it and you know unfortunately I think. for a lot of people who and I learned.

this in jail too A lot of people in jail. the ones that take it the hardest are. the friends and family is because. they're not the one they're not the. reason why you're there but they suffer. almost the most from it it's just it's. not fair did they tell you that they had. been on the receiving end of that that. abuse yeah and a lot of friends too you. know what what kind of abuse do they. tell you explicitly what kind of abuse. they'd been on the receiving end of. I think it's just like the mental and. it's like emotional anguish. um. I've had like friends even who didn't.

work with me but you know who were super. close and around for a lot of the build. up of the events and whether it's from. like their family or their friends or. their employers like how could you not. know how could you have been with him. and. people are looking for I think the. public looks for someone to blame and if. I wasn't there to receive that blame or. wasn't responding to it that blame they. just look for other targets and like. I think that's what crushed me the most. is on this limited contact with friends. or family whatever from jail like. hearing. the sadness and abuse they were taking.

and being able to do absolutely nothing. about it just like totally powerless. going back into a story it's you know I. was reading through all of the sort of. entrepreneurial endeavors. you you did as a as a young man even. before the age of like 15 years old. you'd started companies you'd sold. companies. um just just a long long list of. continually starting another business. starting at like nine years old you. started programming 13 you start this um. this this Outsourcing startup which.

eventually gets sold on an auction site. called um your hot site I believe and. then at 15 years old you create a. company called 24 scene which is. eventually sold to Buddy TV when you. were 15 years old you go off to you. graduate at 18 from I guess high school. high school yeah we call it different. things in the UK. um you go to university and in your. freshman year you drop out and start a. company called spling and you raise four. hundred thousand dollars in a series a. round for this company called spling at. 18 years old right the financing around. today are a little different so this is.

this is like 2010 but yeah crazy how the. world's change right yeah yeah so you. raised that Capital at 18 years old yes. is that your first sort of window into. the fact or point of awareness we think. [ __ ] I can raise capital for things that. I have ideas for I think the biggest. thing there was. having someone so much smarter and older. and like more successful than me. actually like believe in me and back it. up. the idea to like any friend in any.

family that I'm taking time off school. or dropping out of school was like. totally not okay but the fact that I can. point to like a small group of these. early investors who were clearly like. established and you know. like amazing. almost like icons in their own fields. that was when I was like look I have. this real group who is supporting me. beyond their words and I need to show. not just them but I need to show the. world that these people were right and. everybody else who was saying like what. I'm doing is wrong is incorrect who was.

saying you were wrong at that age 18. he. was betting against you I think like. every peer you know all your friends all. the friends all your family members I. think all your family members. at all I think the majority um and I. think that the big thing was like. my friends at that age who especially. like the ones who like did better in. school and you know probably a little. bit smarter. it's just really as much as like they. can't admit it and I know I do this to. other people too so I think I see it as. much as they can't do it like they don't. want to see someone and obviously we're.

super young at that age but succeed. Beyond them and it's like hey I'm. studying 70 hours a week you know I know. I'm smarter than he is and I'm working. just as hard or harder than him you know. why can he go and do this and I can't so. I think that's kind of like a a mantra. that you know I've noticed a lot amongst. like close friends and obviously I see. that same behavior in myself so yeah I. think that that bar just sucks on spling. yeah it was an Avenue for you to. eventually move to New York yes what. happened to that company eventually. failed yeah so uh moved to New York.

actually in the second ever we work. space in New York uh this is 2011 I. think yeah it's a second ever we work. space in New York and spling starter is. a social network and I was kind of like. parlaying off of what I had built in you. know middle school and high school and. you know had this really small you know. websites that ended up selling which is. great. um the social networking aspect display. never really took off and ended up. making software and started to sell it. to like these record labels and TV. networks and I was like the Suburban kid. who was already weird for programming.

and now I'm the Suburban kid who's weird. for programming crazy for dropping out. of school and now I'm sitting in the. office with you know the heads of these. like massive media companies that we've. all heard of that like I didn't even. know really like existed like to go meet. with like the boss at Def Jam or Hearst. or like Discovery or Disney like all. these companies that were just like a. logo on TV for me as a young kid I was. now like tangibly there and they were. like paying for something I was building. it was just a wild experience to go from. you know being in a dorm room in the.

middle of nowhere to. in the midst of the entertainment World. in New York and so at some point you. make the decision to close spling down. so spring was going and I just got super. distracted. by these entertainment companies that I. was going to and like I kept trying to. tell back like these childhood friends I. kept trying to explain to them like what. was happening they didn't really believe. me and now it's really the Genesis of. magnesis was that I wanted to take like. the 19 year old me who wasn't working at. spling and give him access to this world.

of like entertainment and fashion and. like media that I was like finding. myself stumbling into in New York and so. I'm trying to get to the point of like. there comes a day where you go. I mean I've had this in my life my first. startup yeah as well when I was. literally 18 and then I left it at 20. inside my next business but there's a. day where you go. [ __ ] that I'm gonna do magnesis instead. so I basically said [ __ ] that I'm gonna. do magnesis but like still keeps playing. going so okay yeah so spring now is like. my biggest mistake so explain kept. operating for you know a few years with.

let's say 10 to 15 hours of a week of. attention Okay whereas like you know the. vast majority of my time was focused on. magnesis I think like one of the. reoccurring themes is just not seeing. things through and like it happened. again with my nieces into fire but like. jumping ship when. spring would not have been as big as. magnesium or fire could have been but it. still could have it still was okay and. like I could have had a successful exit. for people who were involved and just. like not seeing that through it was just. wrong. reoccurring theme yeah.

um I mean I see that throughout your. childhood and then internally into early. sort of twenties yeah that that um that. I guess ambition. and that sort of constant inspiration. you have leads you to kind of abandon. the last thing and and an entrepreneur's. currency is their time and attention so. as you as you cited there it's finite it. means that the old thing gets a fraction. of your time when really if it's going. to succeed in that market it needs more. than all of your time yes um this leads. you on to magnesis in 2013 yeah we.

launched 15 2014 eventually yeah. magnesis was a tell me tell me what it. was and why you chose to switch your. attention to this yeah so magnesis was. a network that was seeking to give young. people living in major cities access to. better benefits events and networking. than their like credit card would give. them. so like literally this is 2012 I just I. started doing the magnesis card before. it launched I went in Alibaba this is. like 10 years ago before Alibaba is.

Alibaba bought this like blank black. sheet of metal and a Credit Card Copier. and literally went and copied my like. really crappy debit card with 20 onto it. onto this like black metal card and just. like went to the pizza parlor across the. street and the guy just made a total. scene when I went to pay and went and. showed the card off around wework and. started selling cards to like. interesting entrepreneurs at wework and. that was like literally the Genesis of. magnesis and the cool of the proposition. was that it was kind of elite and.

exclusive yeah so it was definitely. trying to cater towards this like. upwardly mobile. entrepreneur style crowd. that feels like a through line across. many of your businesses that went on. which was like appealing to people's. desire for. status and clout because when I was. reading about magnesis at the end of the. day it felt like it was a a black metal. card which was again appealing to. people's egos because everybody wants. that American Express black card but. they can't get it because you need to.

spend you need to spend like a quarter. of a million to get it yeah so it makes. people feel amazing and then you're. promising them. the application process was only a few. people could apply it was all appealing. to that people's desire to be. that's what it started out when I was. like 19 or 20 whatever the time was and. then it ended up growing and the real. benefit was in network and there were. certain members or card holders who were. meeting other members and kind of giving. them value and I think like the first. concept of magnesis was one I wanted the.

black card for sure now it was like the. fun novelty like more of the marketing. aspect of it but two is I wanted like a. vehicle to share and really invite my. friends to all these like Entertainment. Properties where I was starting to. experience and explore because they. didn't believe me so it was almost like. show them what I was telling them was. actually happening and have an excuse to. bring people along through this club or. Community built around magnesis and you. raised capital for magnesium 1.5 million. before you launched and then three point. something off yeah I think that the. total was in like the mid mid threes.

yeah so nothing crazy like but okay and. um jar rule comes into the picture. sometime around the magnesis yeah so it. started basically like once again. magnesium is all about One fulfilling. like my fantasies of places I wanted to. go and can get to and then once I was. there having all of my friends come too. and I just like loved hip-hop as a kid. so throughout magnesis we booked. probably close to a dozen and a half or. even like 20 rappers to come perform. these small concerts for magnesis and. that's what started the whole ball.

rolling towards like the fire app and. that concept so when did you meet Ja. Rule uh during one of these magnesis. member events and the thing that's. really struck me at the time was how. hard it was to book him. and when he finally like received the. offer he said yes and like almost like. instantly right and the problem was this. like web of. quasi-agents and middle management. managers who all kind of claimed like. represent another talent but in reality. they knew someone who knew like a sister. who knew a brother who knew a cousin and.

it's like this terrible. really like opaque nasty world and. coming from like a technology background. it made no sense to me I knew there were. other like kids like me right who would. you know pay something reasonable to get. access to this kind of like music Talent. so we started talking about building an. app which ended up becoming the fire app. to provide like a window into like. entertainers pockets for anybody to give. them offers directly and because of that. experience with Ja Rule and just general. General artist booking that's what that. was the Genesis of this fire app that.

was a complete Genesis was like booking. a lot of these rappers through magnesis. realizing that almost every single time. we were going through middlemen who like. weren't really like the the manager of. the agent and then realizing okay I now. had this network of you know 20 artists. and their real managers so I can give. like access to other people through. technology. and from what I was reading. um this is the when one of the first big. lies was told which was around the. success of fire mobile app I read this I.

think I can't remember where I saw it. might have been the Hulu documentary or. something it said that an internship to. investors it was claimed to be worth 90. million dollars but was actually doing. 60k in business what is the truth around. that where was the where was the LIE. told here yeah so the fire app and the. fire Festival really all come together. at the same time. um. it's crazy to think back like how how. quick I went down a bad path but how. quick everything happened as well during. that time period. this is all 2016. um the fire app was.

launched at some point mid-2016 and the. fire Festival was you know conceived in. September October of 2016. so it was all. kind of around the same time Wi-Fi. Festival how did that come to be that. because the fire app came first fire out. came first how did you get from there to. fire Festival so we had a townhouse. space basically this Clubhouse if you. will for magnesis members and one of the. people working at the front desk I lived. a handful of blocks away calls me one. night and says there's this guy here who. is building some crazy things at Google.

but he says he flies planes and wants to. fly you I think he's telling the truth. you have to come and meet him so I ran. over the townhouse and met this guy and. like absolute genius like one of the. best. like developers of AI I've ever met in. my life and you know he's going to go on. to I think change your world in very. many ways but he's like listen like I. Fly for Fun I have a bunch of friends. who do the same thing we should take a. few planes and do a trip to the outer. islands of the Bahamas for your. magnesium members so we've been running. these trips for years. and I found these outer Islands to.

essentially be this like welcoming. playground where there might be 10. people who live on the island who are. just like so amazing and kind-hearted. and warm and once you bring 18 20 24. people there from New York everybody. kind of drops like their pretense and if. you connect them around these like. almost like life-defying experiences and. Adventures they really really come. together so it was running these trips. for a number of years when I literally. brought like one of these childhood. friends that I mentioned and fire app.

had just launched he said hey man you. should totally do a music festival here. for all magnesis members so that was the. real person who came up with the idea. and that's how the fire Festival. happened and when was where was the the. first light holding yeah in the. fundraising process was it on raising. capital for the app was it capsule for. the magnesis yeah so the the fire. um. the fire Festival app didn't raise much. money prior to like the festival. announcement. we came up with a festival idea in.

September of 2016. shot and released at promotional video I. think a lot of people saw in December of. 2016 and announced a April of 2017 like. launch date so the period was super. super short so somewhere in like the. weeks leading up to that December. promotional video I started lying and. that was lying to Fire apps investors. lying to fire festivals investors lying. about magnesius's numbers it all kind of. hit when.

oh [ __ ] fire Festival is real we're. announcing a festival we have X number. of months to build a city in the middle. of nowhere how the [ __ ] are we gonna do. this that's just like set me off down. that that path. from. I think from what I recall there was. four months between you announcing the. festival and the festival happening so. you're going to the middle of nowhere. you've got to build sewage yeah. infrastructure basically a city from. scratch at 25 years old with.

out the capital to do it and without the. experience in doing it in. four months in 120 days so stupid. so bad. I think I I got my 25th birthday we. launched the trailer for The Fire. Festival. and I still didn't think it was real at. that time like we had these great trips. with a few dozen people and those we. could totally handle we launched a. trailer then I remember waking up like.

you know quasi hung over five or six. hours later and we'd sold like a half. million dollars to tickets if I said. that to people now in my team and you. know I've you know I'm I'm 30 now same. age as you yeah um you know I've got. huge amounts of resources in terms of. like contacts and capital everyone in my. team would turn around to me and give me. that look and say this is not possible. Stephen. did people say that to you. did no one say to you this is [ __ ]. craziness absolutely and I think that.

part of the curse and and part of the. gift at the time was. a lot of their reasons that were being. given to me by things were impossible. we're all solved with these short-term. Miracles and of course everybody said. hey the end goal is impossible you're a. [ __ ] like you don't understand like. what this takes. and then they would give three or four. reasons about like smaller problems. right and then I would go and like. create Magic and solve these three or. four problems and be like look we've. proved that like we can handle the. bigger stuff too and I think it just. took.

so many random like rolls of the dice to. go our way to be able to create a. failure so large because if we found. like a stumbling block or a roadblock. earlier on it would have stopped the. whole thing but it was like this weird. combination of. smart crazy people all kind of coming. together for this wild idea and solving. things we should never been able to. solve until we couldn't. lying plays a big role in that though. 100 I think you have to add line to the. mix because I don't think he would have.

gotten those people to that Island on. that plane without a series of. almost like nuns stop lying there's no. way that you would have well in my view. um if people knew the reality of my view. if people knew the reality of the. numbers and the situation on the ground. and I remember watching the. documentaries which I know you haven't. seen yeah still no yeah we're going to. talk about that but I remember seeing. the there were moments where you were. saying to team members don't don't tell. this investor the nature of the. situation and had you been honest I. think investors from my experience of.

building companies would not have backed. this the reality of the situation if if. they knew the truth they wouldn't have. backed that agree. I always think that like lying hurt. things the most. they lying. really pushed away the help that I. needed and I think that how we just. announced the festival with our trailer. video. we had already proven our ability to you. know create hype to bring a manageable. number of people to these islands to. give them like an amazing experience.

if I just like threw my like hands up. the next day and said okay I didn't. expect to sell this many tickets and I. don't have the resources or or like. wherewithal to actually execute this now. I think the professionals would have. flocked to me and said okay like we are. experts in doing this like let us take. over and you do what you're good at but. like let us you know be the adults in. the room and make this thing actually. happen and why didn't you put your hands. up and say that I I that's like a type. of lawsuit over the past five years but. that's where we're like Beyond lying. like breaking all the ethics and morals.

which like totally didn't totally wrong. it pushed away to help. are you a pathological liar. this is a claim that I've I've heard. leveled at you by the judge in your case. by other people that were working on. fire Festival. um people in the documentaries. yeah I think like my entire. Mantra and drive right now is to form. like super super close relationships and. I want those six or eight people. to never question my integrity and I.

think like getting on a microphone and. telling the world hey guys like I'm not. a pathological liar he's like yeah shut. the [ __ ] up but it's like I want to feel. Pride where I can like go home tonight. and I know like these six to eight. people that I can call or they can call. me you know we will have our backs and I. really don't have the answer in terms of. like how I adjust it to the world but. it's like the six to eight people and. you guys know who you are like. let's build that trust because that's. one of the even when I was thinking. about doing this interview obviously you. know the foundation of the Diary of SEO. is honesty yeah and I'm thinking after. all this stuff I've seen in these.

documentaries how do I know that he's. not just going to come here and [ __ ]. me yeah how do I know that I'm not going. to be one of the investors or one of the. other people that was was lied to how do. I know he's going to give me the truth. yeah. how do you receive that. it's just so hard to hear like it's it's. super hard to hear and I think like. natural reaction is to always like fight. back and argue oh I'm not a lie of then. you just like and it's just like. digs you down. a further hole. so I think it's just finding pride in a.

different area and it's like I am highly. flawed and like any claims made to the. contrary are just are wrong and for. whatever good ideas I've had I've had. you know 10 times many bad ones and like. clearly I Allied to an extent that. I would really hope that the vast. majority of the population like would. never be comfortable doing so yeah I. highly highly flawed and I think like. the next 30 years of my life will be. defined by can I focus on my skill set. can I be honest with a small number of.

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tweets about your you haven't watched. the documentaries no. the first prison I was at or like when. they appeared when they came out the uh. the guys got like a USB stick with both. the documentaries and watched them and I. was like I literally went outside I. think I was like one of two people who. wasn't in the TV room watching the. documentary but couldn't do it why. I think at that time. I was still like this is early 2019 so I. was less than a year into my sentence I.

think I was still like in the combative. phase where I just hadn't like come to. reality with everything that happened. and I was too scared to hear allegations. or comments by other people and not be. able to respond and I like realized like. being locked up. and then having someone say something. where it's probably like 70 true and 30. false I wouldn't have like focused on or. internalized the part that was true even. though that was probably most of it I. just would have gotten enraged by the. false part but I wouldn't be able to do.

anything about it so I felt like if I. was not like stable enough or mature. enough. at that time to to watch it and I. probably still I'm not but really yeah. because I was gonna ask you to follow up. was why haven't you watched them now. then if that was 2019 in 2022 now so why. haven't you watched them still so I. caught myself the other day someone. asked me the same question and I said. and I think this show is like I'm not. like mature enough to watch it yet I. said no one in this is probably slightly. true but exaggerated I said no one real. interviewed for the documentary like why. would any business person who has.

anything going on in their life you know. attach themselves to the event that's. mostly true obviously but but still some. of the people who did interview I'm sure. were you know sharing real stories of. real things that happened so I'm just. I'm not ready there's no way I don't. know why but I'm not ready. because of how it might make you it. might trigger you in some type of way or. I think so and yeah I just I did ask. myself I said would you if that happened. to me when I watched the documentaries. and I'm gonna be honest I don't know. yeah I don't know but you must.

everywhere you go now have. piece together those documentaries. because people like me ask you seven. questions for sure. unfortunately I think I've heard more. than than I wanted to but I think I. understand. how do you feel about the fact that like. probably for at least some time now the. center point of conversations you have. and interviews you do is going to Center. on. that that's gonna like that's gonna be a. real defining thing for for many that. meet you I think it's super interesting.

like. think about personally and it's almost. like weird because a lot of the people. who have watched documentary whether. they're friends or family members other. people. their advice is like you are incompetent. you can't do anything going forward like. you know go work some entry level like. desk job for 70 hours a week for the. rest of your life and and shut up and I. think it's kind of like ironic right. because then you're stuck living with. the remorse the guilt the failure of.

what you did before and I think the. other option is. can I go about it but go for it and go. for it honestly and if I fail it's okay. but you know at least take the swing and. like which path would you know make you. prouder and I've chosen the latter which. might be right it might be wrong but I. just think it's really weird to me how a. lot of like the close friends who have. watched a documentary almost all their. advice have just been like you can't do. anything now and maybe they're right but. it's like that's been like I think. that's the hardest thing to internalize.

from the whole. like after effect process where we. currently stand. well you've clearly got a. internal bias to just prove everybody. wrong which doesn't seem to have left. you right so when you hear that the. Billy that I mean I've come to learn in. the last you know couple of minutes. speaking together with just 100 use that. as fuel right I think like. I find Pride differently now and when. you're locked away for four years and. ten months like when you're alone or. with a cellmate but like in solitary. confinement you can't leave you have to.

find pride in like the littlest and. weirdest things and you know once you. leave 95 of it it's just like irrelevant. and gets out the window but I think like. finding pride is where it stands and. do I want to be the the guy who's honest. but quit or the guy who's honest but. went for it and then whatever the. outcome is the outcome is and like to me. I can find more pride in that path. fire Festival you raise more than 20. million dollars. now that alone is not an easy thing to.

do. you know lying yeah definitely aided. that for 100 but even if people were. lying even if someone was just purely. lying there's still an element of. salesmanship that goes into. accomplishing such a big investment. raise for a first-time Music Festival. when you're 25 years old. what are your skill sets that that made. that happen let's just lying it we put. that on the table you lied yeah but what.

are the other skill sets that. enabled that massive failure. so I think it's like taking a second to. like dive into the lies and why it was. so bad I think there's like a. misconception at least from what I've. heard that I woke up one day made a fake. spreadsheet which is totally true and. then with that spreadsheet you know went. and raised a bunch of money I think the. reality is it's like not that simple you. know I can make a bad spreadsheet. tomorrow without my background and. you're just not going to go and raise 20. million dollars straight it's like it.

doesn't go like that. I think the hardest part is a trust is. that the majority of the people who are. backing me. had either invested in me since I was 19. years old or I'd see me work since I was. 19 or were you know referred or trusted. someone like who fell into one of those. camps so it was like six years of. trust and failure and struggle that I. had to go through to get to the position. where I could even ask for that kind of. money so more than the lie but the. revenue at the time which I almost think.

is not as bad as betraying the trust of. the years it took to get to that point. where I was even in the position to lie. about the revenue. so there's that trust building which. again the jury's probably out on whether. that trust was built honestly yeah. because you talked about. magnesis also being inflated in terms of. the numbers they're being lies there but. then your personal skill like what is it. in hindsight you think why did these. people. back me as an individual what are your. skill sets like Charisma or is it your.

ability to talk your communication. skills what was it I almost think that. you could find. similarities in these early trips that. led to the fire Festival in some of the. magnesis experiences which. is taking people who wouldn't usually. meet bringing them together and then. taking them to a place. they've never been before whether that's. like. a jet ski race at midnight around these. like uninhabited islands or like spear. fishing for your own Lobster with.

someone you've always wanted to meet. it's about just like connecting. interesting people with like a tinge of. crazy around these adventures and like. those Adventures could be physical it. could be virtual but that's kind of. always been I think what is intrigued. backer someone that's a friend a partner. a sponsor an investor is to be part of. that. you know tornado of activity and. connection and excitement interesting so. the people so what I got from that is. the people that invested in you wanted. the same thing as the people that bought. tickets to fire Festival they wanted to.

be part of something really really cool. themselves they wanted to meet. interesting people and do interesting. crazy [ __ ] like that's like that's the. ammo and you ended up selling some 8 000. tickets for two weekends at fire. Festival yeah. I mean everyone remembers the orange. tile campaign and the use of influencers. and we had Kendall Jenner Bella Hadid. Haley Baldwin Emily ratatowski and you. shot this in this promo video. um in the Bahamas which became pretty. viral because no one had ever seen that.

group of influences together before yeah. um. at that point you know you know you know. two months three months out from the. festival you've sold these [ __ ]. tickets this is when the lies get really. bad out there like in one of the. documentaries it says that you put a. villa up on the site for a quarter of a. million to try and raise some money that. you didn't have. um and then I read further and further. and I was trying to understand the world. you were in that was causing you to. continually lie and lie and lie and I. heard about this urgent payment sheet.

what was this urgent payment shame how. is that driving you we were at the point. where the timeline that. I had come up with it was just so off. and ridiculous. it just like made all the payments and. vendors just kind of go through the roof. in terms like the cost to make something. happen so quickly and like we just had. no money right we were just trying to. get money from any Source whether it was. investors or sponsors or customers or. ticket sales consulting jobs I was like. you know wearing 10 hats to trying to. get the income we needed to fund the.

fire Festival. and. the money crunch was so bad I'd. literally wake up every day you know at. 9am to a sheet where we had a list of. every payment we had to make before the. bank wire cut off at four o'clock that. day so I knew that by 2 pm I'd have that. money come into our account is the team. had enough time to wire it out before. the four o'clock wire deadline and so. I'd wake up some days it's like we need. four million dollars by 2PM so I'd have. five hours to go out Source the. investors. come to terms with them and actually get.

the money in the account or else people. are dead in the water four million yeah. we managed to survive like this for. almost 60 days and some days it was 100. Grand and some days it was four million. dollars but like it was it was Wild on. that day that it was four million. dollars you got till 2PM. what'd you do start started calling. investors and saying well I think like. I was telling them we were [ __ ] unless. we had this money and I think that like. a lot of the investors almost adapted. a similar mindset to me that we're in so.

far that hey we've already spent X. what's an extra couple million dollars. at this point because if this thing. works we're all going to make money. and that was the that was the mindset. that I was trying to build and I truly. believed obviously it was so silly now. to look back on because one of the in. one of the documentaries they paid they. paint the opposite picture they say that. you were calling investors and not. telling them the extent of how bad. things were because yeah there was one. particular moment where you'd sent an. email telling someone not to tell the.

investor the true nature of the. situation with the accommodation because. they wouldn't give more money so the. documentary tells a completely different. story about being opaque yeah. untransparent to investors in those. crunch moments I think like one of the. bad thing is is I definitely sheltered. information like not every investor. would have the same information not. every team member of the same. information so I certainly kept. a lot of the logistical problems in the. dark. but if I knew like one investor could.

solve this problem you know I would tell. them about the logistics problem. but then say don't tell anybody else but. we need your help here so I was picking. and choosing people who I thought would. be sympathetic or capable of handling. certain situations so I mean terrible. approach but it was like a mix of hey. we're in this far we need a little bit. more so give it to us and also a mix of. well we can't tell everybody this. because if people realize you know we. need. four million dollars by two o'clock. today we sound crazy and we're dead. people hearing that situation where you.

have this urgent payment sheet and. you're waking up in the morning and it. says 100K on it 250k yeah um four. million yeah. um one of the things in the documentary. showed that you were. popping up like fake Villas and stuff. like that to meet the debt owed on that. payment sheet so if you owed if you. needed 50k that day pop a villa online. call it the Dolphin Villa sell it for. 50k and that would cover the decision is. that true I don't think it was as one to. one as that right um. we certainly were trying to sell as many.

expensive ticket packages possible that. didn't exist that whether it was like. boats or Yachts that like you know we. would go in Charter or whether it was. like high-end Villas that we were trying. to rent but they didn't have them at the. time. so I think our numbers were not like one. to one at the end of the day however we. did rent a couple hundred Villas so I. know I've heard so many conflicting like. stories from this but you know we did. rent a couple hundred Villas and uh I'm. sure we were off by a number but it. wasn't like hey we had no Villas on the. island there was a quarter million.

dollar package for like a villa or a. yacht or something yeah did that sell. um I think we sold a couple couple boats. for like in that range quarter million. dollars and then we had there was a. couple houses in the island which were. like these like 10 bedroom you know like. private estate type things we sold a. number of them I don't think it was like. it wasn't tons but we sold a couple well. the boats did the boats exist yeah on. the day we partnered with like basically. like this like yacht brokerage company. so we would just like ride it through. there. and as the so going back to my point. about that urgent payment sheet you just.

said that you'd wake up like yeah wake. up on days look at the Urgent payment. sheet that you should you'd be like oh. [ __ ]. now I've I've sat here with um the CEO. of one of the disruptor banks out in. Europe called Tom monzo and he talked. about the like mental torment he had a a. red phone by his bed he's running a bank. here yeah so he'd wake up every day and. he'd have a moment of like Dread waking. up because. the stress and the pressure of you know. having to run a bank when you're waking. up one of those days yeah what is the.

like the mental health implication what. did you feel. it was awful and I think. the one benefit and detriment that I had. was an end date like this is all going. to end on whether right or wrong like on. the Festival date right where they're. going to succeed and like be Champions. or we're gonna drastically fail and. either way like let's go all in to try. to make that happen. and what was the you say the word awful. take me into the world's word awful give. me a description of what that actually. means in reality what are the symptoms. of that I mean I was fat as [ __ ] like my.

heart was out of rhythm you know your. heart was out of rhythm yeah like I. think like. lost interest in. sexual relationships lost interest in. like friendship relationships that. weren't transactional and it became like. all work and nothing else mattered I'm. like look terrible felt terrible and I. could just it sucks and I can't imagine. like the red phone at the bank because. like that's never ending right like. maybe you can say Hey you know I'll sell. or hire a new CEO in seven years but I. can't imagine like that kind of window I.

would yeah well he ultimately quit after. seven years building out of business I. think it was valued a billion billions. when he quit and when he did a piece in. one of the newspapers he cited his. mental health. um yeah did you experience anxiety. for sure. um. I was I was afraid to show weakness. right so it's like. I didn't acknowledge it to myself I. certainly didn't acknowledge it to. anybody else but like I knew something. was wrong I shouldn't be 24 and my. heart's skipping beats like you know. that's not not normal there's no reason.

why that should be happening but um yeah. I just refuse to acknowledge it and like. would tell myself you're just soft like. plenty of people have had to live with. like much worse stress in this. figure it out suck it up do you know. that feeling of anxiety the one I'm. talking about where it's it's like. constant state for sure and you. experience you were experiencing that in. the lead-up to the festival absolutely. how badly. it was bad. and yeah I mean like looking back it's. crazy like no one wants to live right. with a dread to wake up every morning. not knowing like what that Excel.

document's gonna be and then who I have. to beg or call or plead or sell to to. solve that problem it just a shitty life. but you you thought you were in too deep. and you couldn't turn back yeah I. thought that like. I wrongly convinced myself that there. was an end goal and there was a solution. like if the event worked and it went. well we'd have a great brand and. everybody's happy everybody makes money. everybody's gonna want to come next year. and obviously it was so stupid silly but. that was a pure. I had to finish line in sight.

when did you realize. it had all gone wrong yeah the night. before the so the festival was scheduled. to be Friday Saturday and Sunday for two. weekends. um we had a charter to 737 planes and. open up like a temporary terminal in. Miami to basically fly everybody to the. island and given we only had two planes. we started to fly guests in early on a. Thursday morning before like before the. festival started on Friday and late that. Wednesday night we were like rushing to. get everything ready in time. and it's like walked into the room.

around midnight and like the entire team. was like slumped over on their chairs. like asleep on the couch like heads like. leaning on the kitchen table. and it seemed like all the energy at the. same time but it's like left the entire. team. and like almost like as if On Cue as. I've written by a movie a storm rolls in. like late that Wednesday and then it's. like oh [ __ ] like I've lost a team. you can't beat the weather like or we're. not in a good spot.

thinking back to the promo um video that. you made and comment you made on the. full send podcast about how the guy that. buys the yachts and gets all the girls. to come and then pays for it subsidizes. it is never a happy man yep. um are you this was the question I was. putting as I was reading about your. story is like what are your insecurities. because a lot of this seems to be driven. by some kind of like deep insecurity to. like prove the prove others right to be. the man to be the guy to throw the best. party and the validation on a.

psychological level that must be giving. some kind of insecurity some whole it. must be filling for sure yeah what are. your insecurities. and what were they. good question yeah. yeah this I think the need it always. kind of came back the need to prove. this path right of like I don't need. school I don't need the path that we. were all taught as a right path like my. path is better and it leads to more. interesting and more exciting life and. like I think I always knew that but I.

was so insecure and I wanted to have. everybody else believe it and I would. get frustrated when people didn't share. those same beliefs as me. so I think it's been part of the. learning process as well is to. understand that everybody can't believe. and like the same thing and that's okay. and like not taking it personally when. that happens. have you got any insecurities around. women. I don't know yeah yeah. it just seems to be centered on this. desire to like prove everybody wrong and. like [ __ ] the system yeah.

um. I still I'm still not quite clear in my. mind where that where that came from I'm. like was he bullied in school was it was. there a teacher that said some [ __ ] to. him that he couldn't do it was his. parents told him he couldn't do it I. think part of it is like the curse of. of things never being enough right and I. guess I don't know what the derivation. of that is but. you know whether it's business success. or friendship success. where you live your home your. possessions like your the love that. someone has for you. especially during that time of my life I.

was almost like jaded into always. thinking that it wasn't enough like if. someone loved me they didn't love me. enough or if like I had a great like day. at work the day wasn't good enough and I. think it all kind of come back to like. maybe I'm thinking out loud here maybe. it was like the early exposure at like. 18 and 19 to like Titans of industry and. then me comparing to them where it's. like not feasible to get there without. you know 20 30 40 years of work that. they had put in but it's like I wanted. everything at that level and I wanted it.

now so if you gave me this much but it. wasn't like where they were I wasn't. satisfied with it so I think it was like. the early exposure. combined with like the impatience and. need to have it there's this really um. well publicized scene where you're stood. on a crate on the day of the festival. you've got all of these party goers. around you kind of screaming and asking. questions and some of them a little bit. drunk because they've been off yeah sent. to a bar on the other side of the island. when you're trying to sort of buy.

yourself time. what was going on when you were still in. that crate and what were you thinking. and feeling were you [ __ ] yourself I. mean right now I realized like how bad. my management skills were at the time. like where the [ __ ] is everybody like we. had they weren't all full-time employees. a lot of them were like local. contractors or whatever we had almost. 800 people you know the day of the. festival like working there I just felt. like I was surrounded by these people. I couldn't find any of my team members. and I had I'm not going to name the. publication I had a publication on the. phone with me saying you know we heard.

you ran off on your yacht with like. cocaine and hookers like I don't have a. yacht never done cocaine like there were. no hookers and but they're also live. streaming on the on the cover of their. web page so I'm like yelling at them I'm. getting yelled at by like you know the. 50 or 100 concert goers right there I. just couldn't find anybody but just goes. to show I just like didn't have the. systems in place to or the knowledge to. manage everything but that was my first. reaction is like where the hell is. everybody. I heard you made the decision to cancel. the festival when someone incorrectly. told you that people had died yeah I was.

told. shortly after that moment maybe an hour. or two later that three people had died. and thankfully no one was physically. hurt like at all to my knowledge but I. was told these elaborate stories who. told you that uh team members and place. and I think the reality was looking back. now is that concert goers were like. reading things on Twitter and then. coming running to employees and telling. them this but like verified Twitter. accounts is back in what 17 were like. nothing like gunshots fire like people.

hit like it was going all over Twitter. and people were getting shot and things. like that and like none of this was true. but by the time it got to me the details. were so vivid. I just didn't have like. the ability to like step back take a. deep breath. recalibrate and try to like think. through the information I was like oh. [ __ ] people are dead okay cancel this. turn the planes around get everybody. home how did that feel when you heard. that if someone in my team came to me. and said that I was putting on an event. and three people were dead already I. mean I just freaked out and said get. everybody out of here get everybody back.

to Miami I know it's like that was your. response but. yeah I was just. I just didn't have the ability to like. okay like what's actually happening how. can we prevent this it was more of it's. like a quick knee-jerk all right send. everybody home it's over. one of the I think legendary moments. from the documentary which I know you've. been asked about and heard about before. is when. Andy King. says that he you called him and asked. him to suck a dick suck literally suck a.

penis to have the water imported because. the Border agents had held it up. what's the truth in that situation like. did you ask him to suck a penis I've. heard so many variations of this story. and no he was never ordered to go suck a. guy's dick I literally put mouthwash in. he was gonna suck suck some dick he was. yeah that's news to me or I mean I. probably heard the story many times but. I think the the comment was ingest like. go suck this guy's dick get this water. like whatever it takes more of like you.

know go suck up to him and get the water. released like do anything beyond paying. this guy right like you can't you can't. pay the Customs people so like go do. whatever it takes and just convince him. that our Festival is going to fail if. people can't drink water there's he's. obviously a gay man. and the Border agent was gay right I. think so yeah so the assertion of the. documentary was because he was gay you. had asked him to suck suck a dick if he. had to and he he took that literally so. he says he he went and put mouthwash in. and he headed down there fully prepared. to suck a dick I think that makes for a.

good TV but yeah I certainly don't. recall it happening like that. unfortunately. crazy. do you still speak to him. um I've heard from him recently yeah so. are you in good terms I think it's a. good guy I think he tried his best to um. to help and unfortunately he was brought. on pretty late in like the process so he. wasn't there from the beginning but I. think obviously if he was willing to do. that he went above and beyond to you. listen if I try to make the festival. happen I'm sure yeah I wish him all the.

best if I had a friend that was willing. to go to those links for me and I have. no friend that would do that for me. um I certainly would would stay in touch. and keep them on side yeah um in the. wake of fire Festival what happens you. eventually fly back to New York one of. the scenes that really did get me in the. documentary on an emotional level was. watching that wonderful Bohemian lady. talk about how she lost her life savings. um you know who I'm referring to right. uh I do know yeah yeah. um. how do you feel about that when you hear. that that some that locals you worked on.

that hadn't been paid and then you know. they're in they're not living privileged. lives necessarily yeah. I mean it's terrible and the reality is. there are people who are owed there. and they're over for the last two weeks. of work before the festival I think. everybody's a little bit different but. getting them paid back. super important to me and trying to find. ways to start that process now. um I never met that lady before but no. her story is obviously super sad and you. know. um. I have heard from her through friends.

recently and you know hope we can figure. out you know what is owed to everybody. and start making those steps there but. yeah unfortunately never met her but. hope to make right by her when you when. you leave the Bahamas off to that event. you come back to New York you come back. to a shitstorm yeah I mean the people. that have given you what 26 27 million. dollars in cash yeah. must be pretty mad for sure I I land. back on like the Sunday night after the. festival around midnight and then that.

morning early the FBI is at my door. and I think like the initial investors. who got really mad thought that the. whole festival was a hoax and then I had. stolen the money and had it hidden. somewhere and it was like lying about. the entire thing. and so just like enter this Whirlwind of. of Hell your investors but basically. went to the FBI Yeah Yeah from from what. I understand yes what makes you what. gives you the understanding. basically I was called until it was. going to happen it's like you [ __ ] up. it's too late like here's what's gonna.

happen now and and like I was totally. totally guilty and I would have gone to. jail like if no one made that phone call. I just made the process happen like the. process kicked off faster but once it. kicks off you know it's out of the out. of the hands of the investors and into. the justice system and I was black and. white guilty there was no gray area. there and you're one of your investors. called you and told you that if you. didn't give them X dollar yeah cash they. would. the exact lines were like we need this. amount of money or else you're going to. be on hanging handcuffs from the front.

page of the Wall Street Journal and I. just like didn't have the money first of. all how much was it uh I don't want to. say because people will know the. investor probably is but seven figures. yeah yeah yeah more than a million. dollars more than one less than 10. so. um I didn't have it and then I was also. kind of like certainly naive in my. response at the time I just couldn't. fathom like that I was lying to. investors right like I knew I was trying. my best to make the festival work and. the media's initial like a line of. questioning and the guess line of.

questioning as was all falling apart was. like this is a scam you didn't try to do. this so my reaction was like no I tried. I'm trying my best but I couldn't like. really understand the magnitude and the. gravity of the crimes I did commit. so I was still kind of fighting back I. go ahead and do anything wrong I tried. my best and then of course like I get. back and realize. oh [ __ ] I mean it didn't happen. overnight but here's what actually. happened. and yeah when you get when you get back. um the criminality doesn't stop though. does it no this is the bit honestly yeah.

that really got me in the doctor because. I was like oh man you know some could. say young kid negligent inexperienced. his ambition was greater than his. execution told loads of Lies. at that point he learns his lesson but. then for the criminality and lying to. continue beyond that point with this NYC. VIP access where you start selling fake. tickets. give me the context why did that happen. yeah I've. many smart people officers have said the. same thing as you and.

I was just caught in this process where. okay this investor he didn't threaten me. but the investor kind of gave me an. ultimatum. I blew him off and he was right he got. me arrested it's all about the money I. have to pay everybody back now all right. I'm gonna I'm gonna get him his money. and I wasn't like communicating with him. at this point but I'm gonna get him his. money I'm gonna pay everybody else back. and then this is all gonna go away and I. can solve this and I thought that the. proper response to a criminal process. was to solve the problem when the proper.

response to criminal process is to sit. down shut the [ __ ] up and like accept. your punishment just just take it and. any other response just like the wrong. way to do it so you were on bail I was. on bail. and like. it was all about this desire like okay. now it's about the money let me pay. people back and back in the Magnesium. days like in the early fire days. Brands would essentially pay us to like. host these events for our members or to. invite members to random things and I. would always get invited to these like. charity events and the charity Gallows.

and concerts and you know award shows. and whatever it may be I can get plus. one or plus two depending on it and I. thought like oh this is a great way to. make money I can just like you know call. these Brands back and ask for a favor. and get a few spots and sell these. tickets I just like was so stupid and. still wrong and obviously couldn't. fulfill what I was selling I'm like. [ __ ] up and it's kept me awake at. night just as much if not more in the. festival so we're on the same page there. so so you would Hamilton the Super Bowl. you would you would email people Coco. and tell them you had tickets take the.

money and then when the event happened. I would scramble and try to get it and. sometimes I could but many times I. couldn't and you would keep that keep. that money I would refund it if the. event didn't happen but the problem was. I was just so sold out for events in the. future that I had no chance at actually. fulfilling that you know when my bell. got revoked and I got arrested it was. just like they lost their money and you. were doing were you doing this in the. magnesis day so I had a story about. Hamilton you said you had 200 tickets to. Hamilton. um and then when the event came near you. just like randomly scrambled on like. Ticket Hub or StubHub whatever it is and.

bought the tickets last minute would go. and hand them out yeah so when in the. lying period leading up to the festival. I was trying to get money from. everywhere and definitely was trying to. get more money from Magnus to help pay. the bills as well. um. I was so stupid like was certainly. overselling access to magnesis events. but we ended up either buying the. tickets like at an inflated rate or. refunding everybody so I lost money. every single time you know it was crazy. like just so stupid.

um your your ability to be so. comfortable with lying at that point in. your life. is terrifying yeah. it's one could almost say it's like. it's kind of it's kind of. I don't even say this but kind of lucky. that like. it was wasn't on an even bigger scale. and it wasn't like life or death stuff. that you were doing in terms of you know. what I mean because if you're that. comfortable lying to people.

that could have been and you have the. sales ability clearly that could have. been a lot like how is your your. relationship with lying evolved in the. last couple of years since you've been. in jail and you've come out like. honestly how has it changed yeah. the lies at the time I think just the. craziest part was. how stupid it was from every level like. you know you work hard to build. relationships with friends with loved. ones with supporters and obviously as.

soon as you allow them it's going to get. found out whether it's the next day or. in a year and five years they're gonna. believe that but you didn't seem to have. a belief I didn't be found out I always. knew in the back of my mind they're. going to find out but I convinced myself. that if I had made them if I gave them. what they want which I thought was. happiness and success it wouldn't have. mattered like that's where I went wrong. and it's like okay they're gonna know. that our Revenue wasn't this but I'm. gonna make the money and they're gonna. have fun so they're gonna love me still. I'm like it's so crazy to think about. now but like that was the thought.

process and. that's like even like for the magnesium. stick it's like I If we oversold a. ticket for an event I was literally like. running around when I came back to New. York for a weekend like I'd go outside. Madison Square Garden and pay like four. times the price and make sure that. person was like happy in the moment not. realizing I just like lost a ton of. money in the deal and actually hurt. everybody else because we're losing. money on it so I was like so focused in. this like long-term goal or short-term. goal of happiness and success for. everybody around me and that's obviously. German due to insecurity and whatever.

these desires are but yeah like that was. like my personal justification and crazy. but that's what it was. that day when the FBI come knocking yeah. you know this is before you put on bail. what is it like tell me because I'm. [ __ ] terrified of the FBI I've never. met him you know I'm just so scared of. them just from movies so tell me what. that's like scary as hell I think like. I wasn't defiant I was more like I tried. my best like that was my own like.

internal like mentality like everybody. at that time was accusing me in the. Festival of all being fake and like. while I obviously made a million. management decisions the crime was like. in lying to investors right but. I just didn't comprehend yet like what. I'd really done and I didn't realize. that I was doing all these crimes for. this end goal making people successful. and even if it worked I still would have. gone to jail but it didn't work and I. was [ __ ] at least I couldn't. understand at that point what was. happening when did remorse show up and.

and that realization of like guilt and. what you'd done when did that show up. it's hard to figure that out in your. story yeah I think like. the first day where I was like something. is really wrong was ad sentencing when. the judge said six years. and I kind of like looked back at the. faces of you know the friends and family. that were there. that was hard. and it's like I legitimately just hurt.

when it was 30 people. in a way that's going to affect them not. just for four or five six years but for. 20 years 30 years and it's never going. to go away. and I don't like that wasn't all the. lessons I learned in one day but that I. think was the start of what would take. another 18 months of being in jail to. really reflect on of like. wow like this is [ __ ] bad. genre was your co-founder um.

did he throw you under the bus. I think he did what. most people would have done in that. situation so. which was well. yeah I think he certainly uh. I mean he's got a lot of talents right. but I don't think going going back to. jail was on his agenda and I was a. guilty one like he should not if all if. all things shook out fairly at the end I. don't think he should have gone to jail. he I don't think he committed any crimes. but like I think like most people they. quickly made it known like what I did.

wrong and how I did it but yeah I mean I. feel bad for him I feel bad for. everybody else who was. who was trying their best they're trying. hard to to make things happen do you. still speak to him do you have a. relationship uh no if you spoke to him. since. you've been to jail or during jail or um. shortly after. um straight after getting arrested I. spoke with him like one time so this is. you know right when Bell started and. then didn't speak with him again and so. your your bell was revoked because while.

you're on bail you started this NYC VIP. access correct and that violated your. bill conditions correct because you. weren't allowed to start a company or. you weren't allowed to all because I. wasn't allowed to keep lying right so. they found out you were lying there as. well and yeah that was it. so you go to jail yeah there's this. lawsuit where you were sued for 100. million dollars but you go to jail you. get six years in jail yes and you'll a. few things in in your sort of um your. sentencing you're not allowed to start. another company again what's the the.

actual terminology there so I have an. SEC role the Securities Commission of. the US where I can't be an officer or. director of a public company for a life. public company yeah public company but. you can for private club private yeah. okay but for life which is you know. obviously if I'm in that position that's. a good problem to have but yeah people. are probably paid back at that point but. yeah you get found guilty of two counts. of wire fraud but then you also get. charged again for selling fake tickets. to events like the Met Gala Burning Man. and Coachella on top of that. which makes the sentence even worse.

um for sure. so stupid. crazy. so it's almost like. it's ridiculous. just didn't know how to. didn't know how to say that I was wrong. and accept. that admission. you also got. you have to pay restitution yeah what is. restitution for anybody that doesn't. know.

so it's basically wage garnishment. forever uh until I die or until. the people who are defrauded are paid. back. you have to so on all the money you make. for the rest of your life you have to. pay the investors who you lied to and. you raised 26 million from yes back a. percentage of the money exactly yes do. you know what that percentage is yeah uh. I think it changes based on your income. level and so it's been like three months. for me so far so I'm just like not. making. a ton of money right now I've I've made.

literally made like eight restitution. payments so far in the first three and a. half months but I think the percentage. just kind of goes up and down based on. what you're earning so it's something I. guess I'll continue to learn about or. hopefully I learned about more uh asking. people to earn more. jail yeah. I said to you before we started. recording that one of my recurring. nightmares is going to yeah I like we're. able to voice it though because I had. the same one but I could never have told. anybody about that you know 10 years ago. of course yeah yeah. tell me about jail I hope I never I hope.

I never find out yeah. I mean so much of me just want to like. put it in the past and never think about. it again but. it'll always be there. and the hardest part is the distance. it's like you're in timeout and you. can't like get consoled or can't like. love anybody. can't talk to your family and friends. and any Partners whatever else it may be. it's the forced distance. that is the hardest part.

what does that do to you. I think like. when you're rendered useless and. Powerless for an extended period of time. it really messes with your psyche. and. I feel it every day now but I can only. imagine for the people who are there for. 20 years 30 years you know significant. periods of time longer. than me like what it does I think this. system is designed to break down.

ambition and creativity. and too like institutionalize you is the. word that is commonly used. and I think like that just kind of kills. your Humanity. and it kills your psyche and it just. makes you feel worthless. how has it changed you. and I I will go to the the positive. stuff but in a negative way can you see. symptoms of How It's had an adverse. impact on you yeah I think like and I.

don't know no disrespected people who. have been through like way way worse and. there's many of them out there but like. having the I think from solitary. confinement having this. weird like almost like a PTSD paranoia. where I now know that there's someone. out there who can snap their fingers and. like shut my lights out right and. there's someone who could like wake up. and say we want him in a concrete box. for four years ten years and they can do. it and I can't stop it that's [ __ ]. scary I'm like that keeps me up at night.

that's because you're on probation. probation yeah yeah exactly yep so it's. like you know you jaywalk and that's. enough where they send you back to jail. and they know you get to jail we're. gonna put you in solitary confinement. now I'm like. someone can snap their fingers and do it. and like that's. not mess with your message with your. head. I think I'm just like. I I'm before I was very quick to pull. the trigger but in both good and bad. ways and now I think I'm a little. trigger shy in a lot of aspects of life. and I worry that I won't get that like I.

won't get that back in the good ways. because like every time I think like am. I going to make a decision where. someone's gonna construe this as me like. breaking a rule whether my tensions are. aren't and it's just scary and like. just knowing that I was so guilty in the. first place and deserved like everything. that happened but then also knowing that. it doesn't have to be that way and there. are people who you know weren't as. guilty as me who suffered as bad or. worse than me I think that fear has. always been there like when I was told.

my release date from jail the two months. I had to wait after receiving the date. were the hardest time in jail like every. morning I'd like be shaking in bed like. waiting for him to call my name on the. last speaker to tell me it was a joke. and like I'm not going home. and I didn't believe I was going to go. home so for those 60 days it was like. I'm unbearable. and then like when the day comes I'm. waiting in like the cage like you're. already locked in a cage for him to. process you out I'm like okay the FBI is. going to show up and tell me it's all a. joke like I'm not getting out of here. and like it's just like the constant. like. disbelief that anything ever is gonna.

happen again was the hardest part. and how long is your probation how long. have you got to live with that fear that. any decision you make concerns you three. years three years yeah. it's pretty long um. four years is a long time in jail yeah. you know it's it's a relatively small. number but if I think about what's. happened if I just go back four years in. my own life yeah to when I was 25 26. better than me I was a different person. yeah crazy. crazy.

and those are key years you went to jail. at 25 years old right yeah six years old. yeah now I'm 30. so it's like I'm. missing the latter half of your 20s is. definitely I mean deservedly obviously. but definitely. development years right I'm sure for. for most people. in terms of lasting memories that Joe. had on you and lasting impact take me to. what is the. what are the what is the worst thing. that happened in jail. that will stay with you for life the. worst thing you observed or so. um.

I did two cents in solitary the first. one was three months second one was. seven months why the seven month stint. was because I tried to do a podcast over. the pay phone which is a terrible idea. to anybody listening well I didn't want. the competition so yeah shut that down. wait till Stephen invites you on but. um. they tried to send me to a terrorist. jail. and basically in retaliation for that. podcast. and they they put me in officially put. the paperwork in to send me to like a. terrorist facility and I've since gotten. out and like looked the facility up and.

they're like there's like a list of the. inmates on like Wikipedia who are in. that jail and you know I'd be one of. like three non-terrorists there like. it's [ __ ] scary it's like I wanted a. podcast I was super boring of vanilla so. stupid to do it should not have done it. you can't do a podcast from jail it. doesn't make any sense but like. it all kind of feeds this concept where. there's like and I'm not a conspiracy. theorist believer at all but there's. someone who can snap their fingers and. your life is done and thankfully like. somewhere in the higher up chain outside. of the facility I was in like rejected. that and just sent me somewhere else but.

that was a very real. possibility how are you trying to record. a book Austin Joe they have pay phones. um that you're able to make. I think like 20 15-minute calls every. month but you can do them all in like. one day so we have to wait 30 minutes if. you need to call so I had like a podcast. company set a podcast up where over the. course of two days I would call in every. half hour for a few hours a day and. record the podcast and they found out. when the episode was published the. trailer came out in like an hour or two.

later they came and grabbed me and yeah. so that's it so that you can find them. yeah 10 months in total in solitary. component the worst part is not knowing. when it's going to end and they were. like [ __ ] with me like hey here's. where we're gonna send you and they. would like send me a program statement. it's called the CM the communication. management unit I like Marion Illinois. now here's where we're gonna send you. and I thought they were bluffing but. then they like two weeks later oh. McFarland they actually put your. paperwork in for they're like you're. [ __ ] like it's like the whole time and. no one's gonna tell me how long it was. gonna be or when it was going to end and. that was the hardest part like a.

never-ending Saga they were taking. enjoyment out of [ __ ] with you oh of. course yeah I mean deserveably so if. your job is to you know work inside a. concrete bunker and like this [ __ ]. kid comes in I'm sure you know I don't. blame them for their actions. I heard you tell a story on the full. sign podcast about a young guy arriving. in jail yeah overhearing his. right yeah in Brooklyn yep. tell me about that. that was really really early on in my.

jail stint when I had my bell revoked I. went to the Brooklyn Detention Center. here which ended up being there for. seven months net bus is certainly like. violent they have all kind of crimes and. levels of security people there it's. like all kind of mixed into one big like. fish tanky you know cell block. at that point I think I was like so. wide-eyed as to what was happening I. just couldn't really process. everybody's pain yeah at that point. because I was trying to like understand. my own pain. but yeah you see and hear things that.

you don't think are real right and just. like didn't have the exposure to those. to that thankfully in my life before. that point what did you see in here in. that instance. expert people with nothing to lose who. are looking for attention or looking for. an outlet. taking advantage of others and it's it's. rough. it's just it's bad do you feel. uncomfortable talking about that. a little bit why I think like. there are obviously some great people in. prison who I met but there's.

just as many bad people and it's like. bad people. surrounded by other bad people just kind. of creates it doesn't create anything. good. a story that I that I'm referring to is. I had you talk about quite recently was. that young man had come to the jail and. um you'd you'd heard him at night being. raped by another. more dominant inmate and you had to sit. in your cell and overhear that rain when. you saw him the next day he didn't tell. the police police guards because he. didn't want to.

get hurt. um. so we're so like weird about that. situation was he was scared to tell the. police guards like what happened. but he had to move cells because like he. couldn't deal with it again so he found. a reason to move to a different cell. like in the same in the same building. that we were all in but the word got. around between the other inmates what. happened so the other inmates pressured. the guy who raped him to do something. about it basically and he went and like. took a razor blade and slashed the guy. the next day so it's like you're damned. if you do damn if you don't and like how.

does that kid handle that situation like. if you tell on the guy in your entire. prison experience is going to be. terrible. if you don't tell it I'm gonna get raped. if you quasi-telling him you'll get. moved and then stabbed so it's like what. do you do and that's like it's just like. a wild. terrible situation how old was that. young young guy I think he was like a. year or two younger than me so this is. my first seven months so I was 25 or 26. so early to mid 20s. do those things I mean. do you have any like reoccurring like. nightmares about about that time is. there like almost a jail PTSD I think.

from solitary like I was I was kind of. sheltered at that point because it was. so early I was the first that was the. first and only time I saw someone get. raped obviously had hurt stories later. on but never actually like I didn't see. it but like heard and like. heard the what was happening there and. heard like his blood like help me like. Scream the next morning when he was. getting slashed so that was that was. wild but I think I was it was so much. happening at that time I didn't fully. like take stock into like what had. happened so that happened a year or two.

later I think it would have been more. like. difficult to comprehend but to the fact. that so much was going on at that point. it's like an overwhelming like emotions. like if you have a thousand loud sounds. blasting in your face and like one more. like horn plays in the corner you're not. gonna really register the horn as much. as if it was the only sound hitting you. at that time and you had therapy Joe uh. yeah they had like jail therapists yeah. did that help you at all in any way I. think so and I think it's all like it's. a journey right and you need to be the. one who kind of drives that car yourself. but.

I think like. you know experienced people can push you. to start thinking about the right things. really while you've been inside over the. last five years the topic around mental. health is has really emerged in culture. what has your journey been like with. your own mental health have you. experienced we talked about anxiety. earlier at any point did you experience. what people call depression and the. symptoms of depression I don't know I. think like my the mental health Journey. started more out of angst I was in.

solitary for it was my first stint there. and had a Wall Street Journal newspaper. come in and it was around the holiday. times like getting ready to do Christmas. like alone in the cell like you know. obviously super stressful and there was. like a whole back page spread in the. Wall Street Journal about dealing with. your anxiety in the wine store because. there are so many options and I'm like. these [ __ ] like do you know. what I would give to like be able to go. to a wine store like right now and like. how is this real so I think like my. initial like intro to like the invoke.

mental health was like a bit of like. this is [ __ ] and then I think it. took a period of a couple years to start. like opening up. to the topic and the concept. have you opened up. to the topic not fully like I guess Like. For Better or Worse. you know I'm of the belief that. I committed the crime and like I could. have and should have stopped myself and. getting mental health like wouldn't have. stopped me from committing the crime and. I also believe that like I'm like.

present to the point that. I certainly believe I know right from. wrong moving forward and if I commit a. crime in the future it's not going to be. because of like a mental health issue. it's because like I'm taking a shortcut. and you know copping out. you'll always try to get you off the. 20-year prison sentence by saying that. you suffered from untreated bipolar. disorder the success reinforced his. grandiose and distorted sense that there. were no boundaries. bipolar disorder that's the defense that.

your lawyers gave. is that true. I think like I am extremely flawed in a. lot of ways and I'm embarrassed about a. lot of things but I'm very embarrassed. about using like mental health as part. of my defense and I just don't believe. that that's an excuse for what I did so. I think that was that was a wrong. approach that I took there and like but. is it true. do you have bipolar disorder I don't. think I'm bipolar I'm sure I have mental. health like. concerns as many people do but yeah I.

don't think I'm bipolar so do you think. that was your defense and you using that. as a way to try and load the sentence I. I yeah and I think I was stupid it was. wrong there's a quote from the the. prosecutor as well where they said that. the defendant is a Serial fraudster and. today is fraud like a circle has no end. Mr McFarland has been dishonest most of. the time. do you agree with that statement from. the judge. I think the magnitude of the lies that.

led to that point. we're just so large and so bad. that it like it erased any good and so I. I think that was accurate at the time. that time inside you know you're getting. out. what's the plan you start writing books. in jail I had all of these things what's. the plan when you're looking forward at. your life with your ambition. what are you thinking I'm gonna get out. and I'm gonna do what the craziest thing. is that I never thought I would get out. and. I'd spend the time like planning things.

and thinking about what I wanted to do. more as like a mental Escape but I was. just so convinced that it was never. going to end and obviously it sounds. silly. that's really been like the this like. aha moment like I am out of prison right. now. and I just like truly didn't think I. would be here. crazy I know but it was like the. paranoia of the situation really really. like convinced me that this was not. going to be over. and you've started a new company yeah. so I am out so I guess I have to do. something now so yeah you could have. done a lot of things yeah right you. could have gone in as you said people.

told you to go get a job you could have. played it safe. you've started a company called pirate. yeah interesting name. there's a little bit of humor in there. yeah a little bit of a pun hopefully. people understand the self-deprecating. nature but yeah. and even the way that you're marketing. pirate we'll talk about what it is ETC. but even the mate you're very much. embracing what's happened and you'll I. remember seeing a video of the marketing. collateral and you say at the start of. it listen I've got a lot of people to. pay back here you're embracing yeah.

what's happened was that a is that. strategy yeah I think like. beating around the bush. and hiding from the truth just makes no. sense right and like people are owed. their own money their own trust their. own an apology and not doing it and. avoiding it I think is worse. than saying it is what it is and here's. my step to make it right I'm like I. can't promise that pirate is going to be. worth anything one day I can't promise. it'll work or not work but I can promise.

I'm gonna try are you are you really are. you sorry I'm super sorry who are you. sorry to. family friends first. supporters second. and then goes goes down the list from. there and what's the plan with pirate. yeah so is it Festival. not yet. um. for all like the really bad stuff I. think the one. crazy positive takeaway of solitary was. that. it gave me time to think.

past tomorrow and if you kind of go back. to like those fire days with the Urgent. payment shoot I couldn't afford to think. past two o'clock you know let alone like. three years from now it's the benefit of. solitary was like read a lot of books. and really just like thought about. technology in a way that I didn't have. the luxury of due to my own mistakes of. doing before. plus like the reflection about like what. I suck at and what I'm good at so. Pirates like the combination of the time. to think seven years ahead and the time.

to reflect on the areas that I need help. and the areas that I think I can succeed. at would you suck up. I went way too fast. I. turned down experts in certain areas. like thinking I knew more than them. I'm terrible managing finances I'm. terrible with Logistics but I'm good at. Building Products quickly and I'm good. at marketing I think most of all I'm. good at taking people and allowing them. to find Value in others that they might. have not found without me and then.

inviting them and convincing them to go. try some experience they would never. have done without me and finding like. joy and success and ideas from those. experiences and connections and that's. what Pirate's really trying to do right. that's a parrot about tell me about. pirate if I'm if I've never heard of it. before and I'm a potential customer. what's what's the sales pitch so working. to partner with a really small like. Boutique Hotel in an adventurous Island. somewhere where we can host the content. creator from London like the. entrepreneur from New York the music. artist from LA on a permanent basis.

connect them around all these Adventures. to go night diving to go Spearfish for. their own lobsters to make music you. know buy the bonfire at night. as many weekends out of the year as we. can but this time instead of trying to. bring like thousands of people there. we're rigging the area with these 360. cameras we're going to be live streaming. it to the rest of the world so all of. their fans no matter where they are can. watch what's actually happening and then. take advantage of these emerging. Technologies to own and even affect the. experience. so for example people online could chip.

in a dollar and build a Beachside bar. and sell drinks their favorite artists. or like once I'm allowed to travel I can. be swimming at the reef and they can. decide to Chum the water and like the. local Captain who's like an amazing. character like. dump bait in the water and I think given. all the crazy sharks in the area people. would love to see the uh the results. alive of that but it's all about taking. people. on a manageable scale physically to. different places and then virtually. allowing them to connect with people. they never thought were possible and. partaking these experiences so for me I.

would go out to some islands somewhere. yeah and then I'd be on the island. chilling and then my audience watching. can [ __ ] with me exactly or or like. impact your creative experience even as. well too so you could be like hosting a. bonfire chat or you can do a podcast. from a different Ireland location and. they can say hey we want you to do the. podcast from this island today with this. guest and ask these questions and they. can kind of get involved and help own. that experience. how are you gonna fund this yeah so like. right now it's doing everything and.

anything like have a TV deal I've been. signing baseball cards I'm on Cameo like. literally like doing marketing for other. small startups and I think like things. have to grow and it's super super early. on but just trying to find any way to. you know get the revenue to do all this. you're gonna raise investment again I. don't know uh not tomorrow not this week. but you know in 6 12 18 months like I. have to kind of see what I'm allowed to. do and what I'm not allowed to do so. taking it step by step do you have this. kind of like because it's been such a. public failure and it's it's tarnished.

by this like this subject of Lies liar. do every interaction you must have now. is there a party that knows that they. don't trust you. I think what's really like interesting. especially from the team standpoint is. I'm having an easier time finding like. team members and partners and like. employees whatever it is now and like. with having no money and having the. tarnish they did before I think for like. the 90 out of 100 people who just like. want to hate and like distance. themselves that almost inspires like the.

10 of the people to really want to fight. for it and make something happen so I. almost have like deeper I think more. trusting relationships with my small. circle than I did before but obviously. I'm going to encounter you know millions. of people who are just gonna like say no. at first pass so. yeah when I heard you talk about pirate. recently a couple of weeks ago you. referenced the Bahamas now when you just. told me about pirate then yeah. you said some Island yeah I saw you on. full sense say you wanted to go back to.

the Bahamas. yeah I I'd love to the Bahamas um we had. been working with a small local. development an island called Black Point. and we had a Super Connect connected. tight like local team that I had known. there for years that I called my dear. friends. um. a few weeks ago the Bahamas basically. announced that I wasn't allowed back. which was. super hard for me to hear I think the. reality of the situation is that there. are people in the Bahamas who are still. owed for their work and they need to be.

paid back so before like any talks of. returning there happen like they need to. be paid back and I'd love to readdress. your relationship once that happens but. in the meantime pirate is the technology. we've built it is these experiences so. just like it's early I don't have the. answers yet but looking for other. locations to start testing what we've. been building who said who said in the. Bahamas you weren't allowed back the. government made a statement saying that. I'm not allowed back I think like some. media announced that I was doing a. festival there again which it was not. the situation and and I don't think I. ever announced that I hope I didn't but.

I think that narrative was taken with. and run with to like this overall ban. which came out of left field for me what. did the statement say that I'm a. fugitive at the Bahamas. so if you go to the Bahamas they would. arrest you it sounds like it. uh I'm not aware of any charges that I. anytime or the past five years but once. again I think the reality is people who. worked hard for the fire Festival there. vendors uh contractors whatever it may. be are still owed and.

you know if I can pay start paying 100 a. week whatever the number is like let's. figure that out and get that done. how are you doing. the stress is there. and. it's literally been three and a half. months right and it's like. how do I deal with this I think one of. the toughest things for me when I first. got out of jail I was in like a halfway. house program for a number of months and. the first people that kind of came to me. were people who I'd met in prison and. they were trying to essentially like you.

know partner with me and get in close. and as I like learn more about those. people over time it's been more of like. separating myself. with from them and it's like building. and rebuilding with old friends and new. friends as well so. the human aspect took me some time and I. think I kind of like viewed the end of. my sentence as like a fresh start it's. like August 30th came I kind of like had. to separate from the people I'd been. around for just over four years at that. point and start reconnecting with old. friends and new people that's been a. challenge I think I've got a really.

great small group right now but it's a. struggle to survive like I have no money. you know I'm trying to earn whoever I. can and just like get Consulting. marketing you know media jobs and just. doing my best but. it's not going to happen in six months. or nine months it's gonna take time are. you happy. I think I'm excited but also super. paranoid and nervous. so it's a mix and I feel like. I have like a good four to five years to. rebuild the foundation before. life is like copacetic again.

and obviously coming in coming and doing. podcasts like this it can't be easy to. do this every [ __ ] day no you know. what I mean people like me calling you a. pathological life yeah yeah just reading. off all this stuff that you've done in. the past to be fair even harder than. every other one I've done so good for. you though we'll let you know what it is. um. it's not just that I feel like I have a. responsibility to it it's like. on this process you're on now there's. questions people want to ask and until. those questions are answered like. they're gonna remain yeah and in fact.

for me I think Liberation for you is. like facing those tough questions and. answering them because eventually like. the truth is people are going to stop. asking them yeah like if they have those. answers so. um and you know I think it's worth me. saying as well I believe you should have. a chance I'm very much of the opinion. that like people like you that have done. wrong and that [ __ ] up and have held. their hands up and said I [ __ ] up I'm. wrong whether you're telling the truth. or not I don't know you you know I I. take you on your word but I believe that. if we have a society where people don't. get a second chance that is a worse.

Society I spend a couple of two weeks. ago I went to a prison and spent pretty. much all day there really meeting. inmates and speaking to them and the. potential you know what I mean it really. did open my eyes because as you've. described I saw such unbelievable. potential crazy right I saw mistakes. that people had made in their lives and. then I saw a desperation to fix them and. to to get back out and be productive so. I think a society that has open up Open. Arms to to ex-offenders who have. committed certain lower level crimes I. think is a good site I'm not saying.

yours is a low-level crime I'm not. passing judgment in your in your case I. think that's a better Society to live in. or else it's a waste of talent and you. know. so that's my stance on it now. do I do I believe everything you've said. in terms of like you'll never do it. again. I don't know. the scary part was you made a massive. mistake and then made another one you. know the fire Festival was a [ __ ]. very public [ __ ] show and then to then. scam people with the tickets I'm like.

damn. I hope everything you've told me. told me is is the truth what message. would you want to send to the world like. all the people listening to this around. the world. what message do you want to send to them. I think the beauty that we all have in. some capacity is time right and it's a. patience too like I don't need anything. from anybody listening to this I just. hope that in 20 or 30 years we can look. back upon this conversation or snip it. to this conversation and said oh yeah. like oh this came true oh there's where. you messed up or there's where you did a.

good job I think it's just like. documenting the journey and allowing. time to run its course and time Reveals. All Right. pirate where can we find pirate if you. want to go check it out we want to be. part of it where's where do we go to. check it out uh pirate.com p-y-r-t. orient.com yeah at piratebilly on social. great domain name yeah thank you cool. domain name yeah. he paid for that oh my God thanks to the. TV contract TV what's that just doing a.

small like follow-on docu series about. like the attempt to build pirate nice. yeah you're ex I can tell you're excited. yeah are you are you nervous coming here. today. uh. not really I didn't know like I didn't. know how in depth we were going to go if. I'm glad I didn't really know because if. I knew the structure and the the. questions I don't think I could have. slept last night so like. glad I came in a little blind um I've. done three podcasts so far I did the. first one like maybe two weeks ago and. then I filmed the second one this.

morning uh which is fun and then like I. guess I kind of came in thinking this. would be more jovial so I'm really. really glad I didn't know the depth of. this because I would have been super. nervous in the definitely not have slept. yesterday so of all the things I've. asked you what was the most. uncomfortable thing the thing where you. go ah insecurities drive like like the. why I think it's the most uncomfortable. because I don't have the answer. you're good and because you don't have. the answers yeah it still might be. running the show in the back room a. little bit right sure of course I'm.

speaking from my own experience like I. talk I talk a lot about this podcast. whether I'm driven or whether I'm being. dragged by something and I've I've only. in the last couple of years started to. realize that I was being dragged by my. insecurities a lot of the time you know. my goals reflected that on Lamborghini. Ranger of a six pack yeah you know. we have a closing tradition on this. podcast everywhere the last guest yeah. asks a question for the next guest. without knowing who they're leaving it. for so they didn't realize that they. were leaving it for you okay interesting. question and I feel like I feel like I.

might know the answer based on what. we've discussed. okay I'm gonna make a rule you can't. repeat something you've already said. here okay make a little more difficult. the question left for you not knowing. it's for you is what scares you the most. today. can't talk about probation. taking a shortcut. I think I have a propensity to go fast.

and it's good in like Tech ways but it's. bad in life ways and there will be. opportunities that come from from the. media from podcasts from you know being. out of jail and it's not taking a. shortcut it's like don't get distracted. by the glittery lights and some. opportunity that ultimately represents a. shortcut. thank you Billy yeah thank you for being. thank you thank you for taking the. questions and thank you for being so. open and this is tough but I'm super. glad I did this and.

the line of your questioning is amazing. so respect where it comes from and uh. yeah you're a master at this so thank. you thank you Billy hope you pay all the. restitution back hope you hope pirate. becomes a huge success I hope all the. lessons that you've learned over the. last 10 years God you've learned lessons. um all learned and they're replied and I. hope we can sit here someday five years. from now 10 years from now and talk. about. the opposite the success. um which is usually the conversation I. have with CEOs here okay the success. what you've built how you've done it um. and share all of those insights and.

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