Bear Grylls: Man VS Failure, Anxiety & Imposter Syndrome | E155

just because you're determined doesn't. mean everything's going to go well. those four people that passed away were. they climbing with you. on fair grills and i've learned how to. survive on some of the most hostile. terrains on the planet you really. fascinate me for a number of reasons. that i actually never knew before i. started digging into your story you. certainly had a lot of demons. in the early days of tv especially there. was so much pressure to go and do that. and do the extra episode you end up. burning the things the most valuable. to be successful you have to sacrifice.

but maybe you reach my way enough enough. selection for the special forces is all. about heart and spirit and we can all. have that that's not a god-given talent. that's a muscle that builds with walking. through the door of failure time and. time again and keep getting back up. when was your darkest moment. one was on when i broke my back and was. in rehabilitation for a long time and. you know so much of my rock in my life. had been that i was physically strong. and i was doing a job i loved and.

suddenly i couldn't even reach the. bathroom without excruciating agony and. it was just what am i going to do with. my life when is there a time to give up. so without further ado. i'm stephen bartlett and this is the. diary of a ceo i hope nobody's listening. but if you are then please keep this to. yourself. [Music]. bear. i want to start where i usually start. which is.

near the start and one of the things you. said was you certainly had a lot of. demons the quote the exact quote is i. was never short of demons when i read. that. i thought what do you what do you mean. growing up i really struggled with. confidence. you know definitely when i was at school. and i think uh you know i think so much. of the school culture still to this day. you know it definitely tends to. celebrate the. you know the guy who's academic or. sporty or good looking or just a cool.

guy you know and that those are the. currency. of school. but as you and me know it's not always. the currency of life and you try and. tell a kid who. who maybe isn't sporty or academic who's. just kind and and. does his best. you know that actually those things have. much more value in life and it's kind of. hard to believe but certainly for me i. didn't i didn't have i wasn't the sport. you're the most academic or the cool guy. um. and i think it took me a while to.

find an identity and actually this is. what. you know it's what i love and it's. nothing kind of. brilliant but but i love it and for me. growing up it was always climbing with. my dad you know he'd been a he'd been a. commando and and. loved all of that sort of stuff and for. me growing up it was always you know. that's what i love to do just just. have mini adventures with him and. i think it took a while to. learn that that's okay you know my dad. was always saying you gotta. find something you really love and try.

and be kind to people along the way and. be resilient you know have that dog and. never give up attitude and that that's. that's the key things for life. and uh but it's hard to believe that as. a kid and sometimes if you get a bit. lost in the system. um so i suppose what i meant is that. it took me a while to find the. confidence you know and it's still a. journey i think we're all on you know i. think success doesn't always answer. those sort of questions and i think. confidence has to come from. in here.

and it's often the opposite of what we. think it is when we're growing up you. know confidence is quiet and i think. that's where that's kind of what i meant. when you say confidence. what how do you define confidence. because some people think of confidence. as this like overt external expression. of like. self-assurance what did you mean when. you said i didn't have confidence and. it's still an ongoing battle what is. that i think it's not what the world. always thinks like you say you know we. always have this thing of confidence as. you say it's this unstoppable i can do.

anything you know i think um life is. always humbling you know in every way. just like the wild you know the. mountains are humbling you know. the the real things of life humbling she. reminds us that. you know it's often a battle and you. know you've got to sometimes put your. head down and do your best and you're. going to fail and you're going to. struggle you're going to have doubts and. you're going to have self-doubt and but. but try try and get your feet keep going. and uh. and i think that is um. that is confidence you know confidence. is the quiet stuff and the and the.

honesty and to to say this is a struggle. but. but let's go you know let's let's let's. do our best i love that thing of the. scouts you know do your best you know. which is so smart because i think so. much of the world is about be the best. you know win. number one. you know but actually. that doesn't always stand the pressure. test of time and of life and of going. for big things are always going to. be humbling and i think the thing is do. your best you know it's dip dip dip you.

know dyb do your best i i love that. because wherever you're at. you can do that you know it's a decision. isn't it it's not a gift it's not. something we're born with like the looks. or the academic of the sport is. something you've got to summon. and uh. i like that what were the symptoms of. having a lack of confidence when you. were that age what would it look like. how did it manifest itself. i think probably just being quite shy. and uh. and.

i think you see the the people at school. always the the bigger personalities and. it was always like gosh you got to be. like that to get anywhere and it's a. life journey isn't it to realize. it's almost the opposite. it's almost the opposite. you know look at the quiet the. persevering. relentlessly trying to put yourself up. through the failures and and keep going. and and. know the wealth of life the wealth has. always found in our relationships and. and. you know you come across people who are.

rich in friendships and you know rich. and passionate and love what they do and. love the people they work with and. you know and that's enough that's. wonderful. but it takes a bit of unlearning doesn't. it of saying. you know you don't have the people not. always to look up to aren't always front. and center and as i get older i see more. and more heroes left right and center. where more left and right rather than. center. you know and i love that i i sort of. see it in people and uh.

you know i see it in our camera crew i. mean look at look at what's been a. cool part of my job for however many. years many years now you know the. filming and stuff and. you know the focus is always on the. person front to screen and you know that. horrible word of talent as they call it. i never felt very talented still don't. still feel i'm surrounded by way more. talented people but it's life isn't a. competition about who's mortality it's a. it's a journey to. take with great friends and i look at. our camera crew and to me true heroes.

you know they work harder. they carry heavier weights you know. unsung. you know relentlessly positive. carry me many times you know in so many. ways encourage me when. when i've been struggling and i look at. them and and still brothers and sisters. best friends to this day uh. i think it's probably the thing i'm most. proud of in my career actually are the. friendships with our crew you know in an. industry that. is notoriously transient you know people.

have crew come kruger new crews you know. but we've kept pretty well the core crew. from. from the beginning. and uh. part of it's that we're obviously. working in difficult dangerous terrain. and you forge stronger bonds than you. would in a shiny studio. but. part of it is that the loyalty really. matters from both. goes both ways. uh and i love that. you said that you kind of have a bit of. an allergic reaction to the word talent. right just from a few other things that. you said in that little opener i.

wondered if you. you relate at all to the to the phrase. imposter syndrome at all because you're. someone who's the world. has this image of you as being this like. unbelievable mountain scaling fearless. adventurer and even you talking about a. lack of confidence doesn't seem to fit. into that narrative that the world must. hold of you so have you ever felt. what they call imposter syndrome at all. would you ever yeah i think so because. i'm going because then it probably grows. you know the more you know the more sort.

of something does well you know we. you know we we did the show this year. for netflix called you versus wild you. know and we just got the news you know. this morning we got um nominated for. three emmys for it. and the crew got better he's so excited. but part of my heart dies part of me is. like oh it's like that gulf between. the the sort of tv sort of you know guy. and the re gets bigger you know and i. feel. from day one i felt.

i almost had more confidence i think in. my skills at the beginning i think as. the years have gone on and i've realized. actually i've often be surrounded by. people who are better better climbers. better skydivers better survival guys. better looking fitter stronger all of. these things just because we've built a. a crew of ninjas of true heroes and you. know got to work with people and locals. and experts all around the world. year after year. and i think more and more i feel these. guys are those that person we met there. or that person they are amazing be much.

better at the job than me. but you know like i say our our job. isn't to be the best you know it's to do. our best and and you know for some. reason i've been given this this the. chance to do this it's what i've always. loved i love the adventures i love like. i say the friendships and you know the. job we do and. i think you can only ride that'd be. grateful for it and. and like i say do do your best and and. not worry about. too much about. how the tv makes it always look i mean. the truth is the tv always puts the best.

bits they cut out the trips and the. stumbles and you put anything into music. and the guy's gonna look cool you know. but i think an element to why the show. worked when we first started doing it is. that we did show a lot of the mistakes. and it was kind of. the slips and the stumbles and the ums. and the r's and i remember from day one. that the producer that came. came to me and said we want to do this. show where we drop you in the middle of. difficult places and you show us how to. get out of there and and i kept saying. no because i didn't want to do tv i. didn't know about tv and i was like.

and. you know but you kept saying we don't. want that it doesn't need to be perfect. and i've and it was my wife i said what. are you gonna try you know and i just. left the military we just got married we. were kind of starting out and. she was smart she said go and try it and. actually it's never felt like making a. perfect thing i think the magic at that. time it was the first show that came. along that let all the mud be on the. lens and the rain on the lens and the. trips and the stumbles and you saw the. cameraman's hand and it would come there. was an a sort of interactivity that was.

there was great and i've always thought. if it's not broke don't fix it the. stumbles the trips the struggles the. mistakes are part of life. uh. but the part of my heart that dies is if. it goes it all makes it look too good or. too you know because at the end of the. day i'm a really regular guy i'm a. regular. dad as well you know i'm not i'm not. brilliant at any of these things but i. know what i love and i know. the weapons that serve me best and the. weapons are always this you know be.

dogged be determined. be be the most resilient person out. there when it's hard you know come alive. in the big moments. when it's not the big moments you don't. need to be front and center but in the. big moments be there. i watched a lot of interviews of you. before you you arrived here today and i. think in pretty much all of them you. said i'm a normal guy i'm a regular guy. and i get that i get that i understand. what you're saying however. well it's not false modesty i don't want. to i'm not going to let people. build.

build me into something i'm not you know. and i think as i get older i know the. frailties more and more and i'm not. ashamed of them you know i mean it's. it's okay many mistakes many many. struggles it's okay otherwise things. become all too. you know that how. it's hard to relate to you know. but you you got through sas selection. just i got through all these hit just. you know and people turned turned to you. and and said things and as they turn. back and quit.

right that that for me is a filtering. process of something yeah whatever that. something is. all it is is it's something we can. control it's not a filtering of talent. it's not a filtering of you you're. brilliant you're through you're not. through you know it's a genius of. selection for the special forces it's. all about heart and spirit and we can. all have that that's not a god-given. talent that's a that's a muscle that. builds with. walking through the door of failure time. and time again and keep getting back up. you know so.

i like that that's why i say i am an. ordinary person as well i also say just. to so many things because you know yes. i've passed out oh yes you reach the top. of this man or yes you do but it's. always just. and that's okay you know and it's also. often. by standing on the shoulders of many. giants who have helped me you know many. many times you know if i think of. ss selection you know that time there. were so many times where. somebody somebody just kind of believed. me in a critical time you know it might. be something where the two corporals.

running something goes we want that guy. doing you know a bit of luck falls on. your side somebody backs you you know or. you know you i don't know just. the more i look back on so many. so-called achievements the more i see. the hand of good people in critical. moments but as you know you have to win. the hearts of those people in the first. place. but also. the role of just that dogged. determination to keep going and that's. not. a thing of being brilliant it's just. trying to keep going often sliding.

another step back but keep moving. forward. and you say that to you know i've got. three boys now three teenagers and i. think if you said to them what one thing. does your dad say to you day off day. before you go to school. it's always just. you know don't give up don't never give. up be kind you know be determined but. never give up. and they roll their eyes but you know. what. one day they'll know that. it's a key thing a key thing of life you. know you don't have to. be the best to do your best.

did that. resilience muscle as you call it grow. over time. of course it's just like like everything. it's like the little little seas to the. mighty oaks you know we how do we build. it just inch by inch. and uh. and that's a great thing because it's. not something only some people can have. you know it's universal for us all we. can all become people think it's a. god-given gift to someone be resilient. resilience is that muscle and you build. it by failing and trying to stay. positive and trying to get back your.

feet and going again you know i look. back and. i remember being uh really excited about. being picked for the. fourth eleven football team as a. linesman. it wasn't even in the team you know. and it was like my job was to bring on. the oranges uh half time. you know but it was like and i remember. my dad was the only dad on the side of. the pitch cheering me on i thought it. was so embarrassing he's not i'm not. even in the team and dad said you know. he's come to kind of. but actually those little steps of like. i'm gonna do this i'm gonna bring on.

those oranges and you know you're never. gonna forget it's gonna be great. and it's. incremental tiny little things. but. having to fight for things you know so. how often do we see at school though the. the school hero. actually in life. doesn't always do that brilliantly and. why is that it's because they've got you. know schools rewarded that. but they've never tested this. you know where little johnny who doesn't. have that doesn't get the awards.

it's a linesman brings on the oranges. yeah whatever it is struggles doesn't. even get noticed never wins anything but. never gives up and keeps doing his best. and still doesn't really get noticed but. doesn't matter but when he leaves school. this might not be the biggest thing but. this is like ninja like you know that. that resilience muscle inside is strong. and as you know and as i know in life. that's the one that. is going to. carry you further. and. and the unseen people at school often. do better in life it's like don't peak.

too early don't peak at 14. i certainly didn't i sat here with um. eubank i've been thinking about this. idea of resilience and what it really. means and as we sit here today my. current hypothesis is basically. resilience is the story it's kind of. this contract you have with yourself. this self-story about who you are and in. those moments when no one is looking i i. was talking to eubank about me being on. the running machine and knowing i've got. two minutes to go because i said before. i started i'd run until 45 minutes. but my legs are hurting and they're.

cramping and i could give up and walk. away and no one's gonna know because no. one's here yeah what i i alter my own. self story in a way and i i send a. message to myself that i am the type of. person that gives up when it's tough so. is it really do you relate to that and. this kind of like you're crafting this. story about who you are to yourself with. every small decision you make doing the. linesman job you said i'm gonna do it. the best i possibly can. and although it's not what i wanted i'm. gonna i'm gonna give it everything i can. and not give up yeah. yeah does that relate and also i think.

the thing of giving up is that. you know what is this i think of. temporary pleasure long term yeah that's. not true you know and and for me i just. i i develop thing where. [Music]. whenever people quitting or complaining. i like those moments for me it was like. okay there's all the all the chat and. the bravado there's always that. beginning i was full of that but bring. it down put the squeeze on you know we. like grapes squeeze this you see what's. inside bring the squeeze bring the. squeeze now we see character you see.

what people are like. and for me it just became whenever i saw. people quitting or complaining. especially complaining you see it so. much just. in the military you see it on big. expeditions you see it even when we're. filming tv shows with people you know. when it gets hard. you know and you're hungry and you're. scared and you're up against it you're. dehydrated you know those are the. moments and for me it just became a. trigger when everyone's complaining and. giving up so time to give more you know. just you don't have to give more in the. early times just wait until it's. and that's how you separate yourselves.

in in business and in life and in. relationship you know in the big moments. you know look at a relationship when. it's when you're under that real time. and everyone's throwing it you know are. you going to really throw that nasty. comment or kind of hold it and just. try and be gracious and kind in those. big moments you know. and and i like that it wasn't. you know it wasn't complicated to think. about under pressure it was just like. when everything's going wrong that's the. time to give more rather than give up. and i held on to that in many difficult. moments you know across many different.

arenas. and um. and it's helped me you know i remember. this guy said to me once said and you do. anything for another 10 seconds. i like that you know when it's you're in. that moment you key going another 10. seconds. that makes you different though. you got to admit because most people. don't want another 10 seconds yeah well. it hurt it hurts i'm not saying it's not. going to hurt it's going to hurt but. that fire inside it's in this in us all. you know it's just you've got to dig. sometimes but it's.

it's a great truth to know that it's. there when you dig you know it is there. and uh and i think as you say once you. get used to it and you start to practice. it the muscle gets stronger and then you. almost seek out tough times you know. this is a chance to. to shine you know and as you say that's. how you separate yourselves. in life you know you're going to reach. these points but but in those big amount. what are you going to go this way how. are you going to act in those big. moments and it's always what separates. you know reaching those summits for not. reaching those summits never give up.

it's the name of your. latest book when is there a time to give. up. because there is a wildly believed i. think social phrase which is like. quitting is for losers right but some. when i look at my own life and my own. career quitting has played quite an. important role sometimes in leaving a. situation that wasn't good so when. should we give up well that's called. wisdom and it comes with experience and. there's always there's always a right. first of all my 16 year old nephew came. to me the other day i said i said bev.

you. need a not the smoking on the head. you're smoking a lot at the moment. he went but ever since i have a kid you. told me never give up. i said apart from the cigarettes you. know there's always a time to give. things and some and experience and. wisdom. you know you just don't want to be a. pig-headed head in the dirt. you know that's not smart that's not. smart you know intuition and experience. has to know when hard on this is this. isn't maybe the right route let's just. take a step back.

and i think it's why so often. great mountaineers are often a little. bit older. because they have that patience and that. judgment and when you're young and you. don't care and you kind of maybe should. be listening to that intuition and maybe. the weather's changed or something's. happening that's saying hold you know. and you go and you die that's why why so. many higher tude mountaineers deaths is. that that. you know relentless ability not to adapt. or change your plan where with age you. have that ability to listen to your.

instinct to the mountains to the. circumstances and maybe adapt and maybe. change and as we know you know with big. mountains they'll always be there so i. think that ability to life to listen. to that. and to amend and to adapt super. important and look at soldiering same as. always this thinking man soldier you. know was a was a mantra of a lot of. these special forces stuff was always. being able to adapt improvise adapt. overcome you know that that's that's. leading with this and with this. so. course is a time. for pulling back and holding.

but i think generally the message you. know 90 percent of the time. most people don't get where they're. going not. not because of a lack of skills or. talent is it's that lack of kind of. ability to keep going when it's hard. and that's why i think doing. little things every day. small things that you know whatever it. is that just push your push this muscle. a bit is good you know even if it's like. i mean i have i've had a thing for years. and it's now super popular everyone's. kind of you know doing it you know the.

ice bath training yeah but i've done it. for years and i love this thing it's. just three minutes a day i'm just in. that cold water you know whether it's a. river or in winter or lake or you know. at night time and you know i try and. find somewhere every day just get in. that cold and it hurts still hurts but. it's just a little some little something. whatever it is that's your something. that's difficult to do. because most people spend their lives. avoiding the the painful the difficult. you know they're scared of public. speaking or they're scared so they avoid. the things that.

challenge us but as you know is where. growth happens and growth isn't always. fun it's often painful but it's like a. muscle the more you push it the more you. get used to it you know there's a great. thing at the commando training center in. limston that just says comfortable with. uncertainty and it's a great thing for. life you know don't get sat in that. comfort zone. too much you know i call it a comfort. pit somewhere to get out. i was wondering if like training in the. gym. when i. do my repetitions of the weights i then.

need a bigger weight to get the same. gain. so do you find yourself needing like a. bigger thrill or a bigger expedition or. a greater challenge to get the same like. feeling of fulfillment and contempt from. what your work these days and where did. you find that after you've climbed. everest and done all you've done. i i don't feel that no you don't i don't. feel that i think um. what you're saying in the question is. you actually is that where you get your. fulfillment through that thing and the. answer is no it's not where i get. fulfillment fulfillment i do these.

things i try and do the difficult things. just to keep that inside muscle honed a. little bit but it's not always about. bigger and better and. you know it's. as i read the other day half of life is. getting to where you. you know achieving your goals and the. other half of life has been really. happy to enjoy it. second one's a harder one to do. and i think a big you know i'd be super. lucky to fulfill so many things i still. have many goals many ambitions but it's. not goals and ambitions that trump the.

last one are ever bigger and uh. you know it's not like that it's just. really grateful and try. make sure you stay alive you know make. sure you're always grateful for the many. good things and the luck you've had. along the way. you know keep that muscle inside honed. keep working keep doing your best. but it's definitely not where i find the. fulfillment it's not it's not like. the achievement's never going to fulfill. that whole did you used to think it. would. maybe a little bit i think when i was. young you know i think everest certainly. for me was such a symbol of like i'm.

gonna do this you know that it was at a. time when. only i think 20 odd brits had ever. climbed it and it was i thought this is. going to be epic you know and and then. you see the realities of you know we. have four climbers lose their lives up. there and it re-rattled me in many ways. and i was lucky to reach the top and got. back in one piece but it didn't answer. that question of. you know. i i don't know i don't think i'd climb. it now i'm not so out on a quest to kind. of prove. anything but i think when you're young. it's. half of it's good to have a quest you.

know you've got to have that goal. but the other half is like it's not it's. not the answer to life is it you know. it's it's a. you know that maybe comes from elsewhere. and with time and experience you learn. the real answer life has always. rooted in. you know something inside and that and. relationships with great people and. you know a lot of it i think comes down. to love actually you know being uh. knowing those connections with great. people and a love of whatever it could. be can be love of the outdoors the love. of what you do you know.

but um. it's not found an achievement always. have you found. where it is found you don't seem to be. so. certain exactly where that that feeling. of fulfillment um. [Music]. you talked about the second half which. is like enjoying the goals. have you figured that bit out i think. it's a lifelong journey of figuring. it out you know i i hope i edge closer. to where it's not found. which is is never found in trophies and. triumphs and accolades you know those.

things i see those things with clearer. lenses now you know i'm more proud of to. be married you know 22 years you know i. got three. great boys you know the the simpler. things i'm i'm more proud of i think. you know where do i really find. fulfillment i think um. i think my faith is a quiet thing. in that sense. you know face always a tricky one but. and hard to articulate very well but. it's definitely comes from a place of.

like. that you're. you're okay you're okay we're we're. forgiven we're loved empowered. and um trying to live it live life as. best you can eyes wide open with. you know gratitude in your heart and a. tough resilient spirit to go for things. and uh and i look at life in those sort. of turns more and more i feel like in. the in the 2022 in the uk where i think. we've grown more atheist as a society. i mean. some people say there's no such thing as.

an atheist but we've grown more atheists. in our viewpoints. it is harder to communicate if you do. have a faith. why did you say that it's a it's a. tricky thing. i think it's been so tarnished i think. religion has been so tarnished and i i. get that i was always the least. religious person growing up i just. thought i mean as a kid i had a really. natural faith i always believed in some. higher power and that. i could feel you know there's something. around you know as a little kid it was. like ah wow.

and then i think i went to school and. then you know you had to go to church. and they were all white classics and. spoken latin i thought. gosh i've really missed it you know this. is actually what it's about and it's. been a life journey to unwind all of. that and realize actually. the little me had it right. you know faith is faith is in your heart. knowing knowing that you're not alone. and and. there's something bigger than us out. there and. they're for us not you know that power. is for us not against us and. despite my doubts and all of those sort.

of things i'm gonna put my trust in that. and try and. you know. have love at the center of what we do. and live empowered and go for things and. not be scared to fail and. not be driven by fear and all those sort. of things and that to me what faith is. um. so it's hard to articulate i think. because it's. personal and it's it's. intimate and also it's like i say it's. it's has just as many doubts as it does. you know doubt and faith two sides of.

the same coin you know i think. it does feel like that for me but. through it all. i would say my christian faith has been. a real backbone and a kind of secret. strength in many. tricky moments you know. light to a dark path i always kind of. feel it's that sort of thing so yeah i. did wonder when i was reading about your. faith and i watched you pray for obama. just at the end of your time with him. because i've sat here with guests who. have undergone and witnessed such. horrific things in their. in their lives and they've and it's.

shaking their faith in fact eubank was. one of them that his brother suddenly. died they were both very religious and. that shook his faith and being out in. nature and being on those expeditions up. everest where two people fall to their. death and twos you know die of the cold. one would it might assume that those. moments would shake your your faith but. it sounds like it's made it stronger in. a way from what you said well i think. the two things happen often you get. shaken and strengthened. and uh actually my experience with. people people who've really been taken. to the edge.

that's actually where they find their. faith you know you look at so many of. the concentration camp stories and stuff. you know. it's uh. you know two sides looking at one person. said. there can be no god i've seen i've. witnessed. evil personified and. yeah it was if i can't remember when and. said. i've been to the edge and i know there's. no place that god isn't. you know it's all how we look at how we. choose to live. and uh.

i choose to choose to try and live with. you know faith faith in other people. faith in ourselves faith in the almighty. and that and that helped me but it's. it's funny that thing with obama because. in a way that was never meant to be on. tv it was just a spontaneous thing at. the end of the journey and i'd you know. as you know when you spend time with. people. you get a sense of someone and i think. at the end of that journey with obama i. got a real sense that. he's a guy with a weight of the world on. his shoulders you know and he he got.

lighter as the journey went on and by. the end he said you know what's one of. the best days of my presidency i'm out. of the office i'm out of a suit. talking about stuff that's in here. rather than being grilled on. you know politics and. and i could see him light getting. lighter you know and i just said it yeah. i said it first of all. good job you're doing you you probably. i don't know if you get told it very. often most people are giving your heart. a bit you know you're doing your best. you know and i want to just say you know. i don't feel like let's reef try and.

refill his fuel tank a bit yeah yeah and. actually it ended up going in the show. you know i put a hand on his shoulder. and said you know. strength this guy you know the big. decisions. oh man you know and it wasn't really. more complicated than that but. i don't know i think the wild. always creates. honest connections without the fluff. and it didn't feel unnatural and. you know but it's funny how the effect. of that i still get people to this day. talk about that a lot i know quite. unlikely people often say that wasn't.

that was a good good moment. not always easy i mean awkward sometimes. isn't it doing that sort of thing. of course but but that's okay i've. learned that. that's okay dude sometimes the awkward. things. are the best things. telling someone that. you know. you know that they're amazing you know. can be awkward to a good friend but can. can mean a lot. quick one we bring in eight people a. month to watch these conversations live. here in the studio when we're here in.

the uk and when we're in la if you want. to be one of those people all you've got. to do is hit subscribe. you said earlier about being rattled. after everest one would never. assume that of course you climb the. biggest mountain in the world. and you come down and you're rattled and. your confidence is knocked. i think big mantas are humbling you know. and sometimes you you take on these big. projects and it's about come on we're. gonna do it and you're you're full of. that. confidence. but um but it's often quite surface and.

i think when you see things close up and. it it. i think i came away with a real. awareness of that i've been really lucky. and got away with my life where others. hunt up there and this stage everest was. killing one in six people's lives you. know and beforehand i read about that. and it was almost kind of it was almost. glamorous it was almost like romantic. you know but you see the see the reality. of it close up and it's it's not. romantic it's it's. dark and and difficult and confusing.

and uh and i think my feeling at the end. of it was that i got really lucky you. know i've been no doubt dug deep in a. few big moments and. you know it was some. 92 days on that mountain there's a lot. of time to do have to dig deep but. ultimately i had a bit of luck at key. times. and i think i came away aware of that. and and grateful for that but less. certain that just because you're. determined in life doesn't mean. everything's going to go well you know. and i think beforehand i kind of thought. if you give over this we're going to.

work out but as you know in everything. in life there's no guarantees you know. we're. we we live a gloves off life. you know life is gloves off there no. rules of kind of like if you if you give. this school going to be. you know roses and sunshine you know you. can give the best in the world it's. going to be. hit you sometimes you know you get ill. or something happens and i think. that's the part of me that got a bit. shaken and. but you know that's just life and you. have to. live with your eyes wide open to that.

and and still choose to try and make the. good decisions and pick the good. attitudes and put them on like a t-shirt. every day that even though gloves are. off we're gonna go for this we're gonna. do our best to be positive do our best. to give our best. and keep going for it. those four people that passed away were. they climbing with you. two russians and a. a brit new new zealander from other. teams. but they're larry on the mountain at the. same time and and never came back and i. remember with their teammates you know.

afterwards just. them in tears and sitting with them and. it definitely made me question a lot of. the time is is any mountain really worth. a life i wish you clear answers no. but at the time sometimes your ambition. is you know it's like we're gonna go for. it and and that's why i think now kind. of with a bit of time and experience. would i. would i do it now would i take a one or. six chance of not coming home no no. because you have more to live for. but i think at the time i was like i'm.

all in i'm going to go i want to make my. mark you know at a young age. and uh and the truth is i got lucky. fame. but yeah what does that one mean. yeah you tell me only on the tv for a. couple of minutes i mean. so but you've been on there for. many many many many years so i was. hoping maybe you could give me a little. bit of an overview of what. fame is. because you know when i looked at bear. grylls podcast. and i really couldn't find much there.

was for someone that's been in the. public eye for so long could barely find. anything. and then i read this quote that you you. don't like. sometimes you feel like when you meet. someone there's a sense of you're. worried you might disappoint them. because they're expecting you to be. something else. well i think that's true. i think part of my kind of. the answer is i don't do very many of. these you know i think um. but that's okay i'm not sort of hungry. for more. people to know. everything you know i do.

do these sort of things every now and. again with with good people and and. when it feels right. you know i think i think one of the. reasons i get i get less comfortable. sometimes in big groups of people and. and doing press circle doings you know i. i'm not very i don't really like the. cameras on me if i'm honest i struggle. really with that so one you know i never. gone to tv for that you know i got to tv. because you know this producer said do. you want to try this thing and. like i said we were just married and. starting out and pretty broke and it was.

like let's go for it let's see what see. what happens but the sort of the. recognition side of things you know i. struggle with the word fame i think it's. a weird one. but i think the recognition side of. things i. i struggle with more um and i think part. of it is. a little part of me feels i'm never. going to be quite as good as people. expect you know in in. as a tv sometimes makes out and. therefore. less is more very happy with my family. and friends and i go and work but i want.

to kind of come home afterwards. but when it comes to. fame you know you say that you say about. that i've. i kind of learned i think over the years. too first we'll take it with a. not just a pinch of salt but with a. bucket of salt you know don't believe it. it doesn't. it's not where your worth is your word. you know if your worth is that you're. always going to struggle because it goes. up and down there's ultimately it's. going down isn't it you know you're you. know when we're when we're 95 years old. nobody's going to know who who i am.

yourself. well but but and it doesn't matter you. know it doesn't but our sense of. self-worth you're always going to be. fighting a losing battle really yeah. yeah so i take it all with a bucket of. salt. um i think for my family growing up with. a little bit of that they've i always. say to our boys growing up. we got friends all over the world and. look at it like that amazing connections. you know i can go to. go to any country and and there's a. connection with with with people there. and people want to tell their stories.

and go oh i've just been camping with my. you know my son or my you know my uncle. was this or did that or my son's a scout. daughter's a scout or whatever it is and. i like those connections always grateful. for people's stories and. and that's fine so that's how i kind of. look at it pinch yourself don't believe. it all but uh always be grateful for. friends all over the world did you. struggle with it. i think i struggled with it when i felt. the attention was on me i think i didn't. like that that that felt i remember so. well in the early days when we started.

doing man versus wild. first two seasons we were just gunning. and going and it was all just kind of. fun out there a small crew i never. really didn't see it go down tell you it. was going out in america at the time so. i was over in the uk i didn't see it i. didn't know what was happening it was. just lucky it was good timing and it. just worked you know it just was meant. to be at that time but i didn't really. see much of that because i come home and. you know live regularly and i remember. the head of discovery after a couple of. seasons say you know your show's.

best on discovery it's getting over a. billion viewers now around the world. and uh. and my heart sank i really started to. struggle with it and i suddenly started. that when we were filming i'd be like. self-conscious and what am i saying and. holidays. and. the fun went out of it and my i got more. anxious with it all and i thought i. don't want people looking at this or. doing this or. and it was a really sort of marked time. of. and the crew said it so they said is. everything okay. and i think.

i had to learn to. it's about other people you know and. when i raised people coming up and they. weren't going. you know you're amazing there we go. i took my son camping or or my whatever. did that and when i was it was about. them and i'd really try to shift it in. my brain everything's about them you. know it's what it brings out whether. it's a single mom coming to me saying. when he once said about you're in that. storm in the jungle and you said. sometimes life is it's going to beat you. up and you just got to be dogged and. keep going keep your head down you know. the storms won't last forever and i.

really understood that as a single man i. was trying to hold down all these jobs. i've got you know that for me lifted my. whole. i thought that's why i do this job. and it kind of shifted it. off me and and and and that's why i've. always loved my job now as like chief. scout you know for me that was a. revolution to be able to say when people. come up to me and go you know oh you've. done this now yeah but look what you. could do you could join you know you. could join that and you can do this and. you know somewhere to be able to.

not deflect but sort of direct people a. little bit. and i i get such a kick out of that it's. why i love running wild so much because. it's about other people it's about. taking these rookies they might be. amazing rookies but. they're often wilderness rookies and. opening their eyes to. my office you know the outdoors what the. wire can do for people that light inside. that pride that come on you know that. magic. and uh and saying look at this and that. freed me a lot. away from kind of.

look at look at you know. look that way instead of this way. you said a word though which i i started. thinking about a lot which was the word. anxiety. which i actually think is quite an. interesting thing because you're much of. your work is about the natural world and. one of the i think unnatural human. signals is anxiety it kind of tells you. something that you're potentially doing. wrong maybe a train of thought that. you've attached yourself to which is. destructive or whatever else and. depression's one of those things is what. i talk about a lot is also seems to be a.

pretty clear signal for a natural signal. that we have you know some of my guests. have said that they have it's a signal. that they've been disconnected from. their tribe and it's and they've. explained the science of that and um and. even the signal of rejection and how. that makes us feel is a prehistoric. signal telling us to get back into our. tribe because or that there's a chance. we might be thrown off the island by our. tribe because we're being rejected so to. change our behavior and all of these. signals. anxiety depression and this whole mental. health um. awareness that's emerged in the last 10.

years. what's your relationship been like with. those with those um. those topics. first of all it's it's amazing that. people are talking about this and. focusing on it more you know i think. you know it's it's long overdue and it's. a key part of our arsenal for life isn't. it our weapons that are gonna. help make your heart happy you know you. you need to. you need to look after the physical you. need to look after the emotional you. need to look after spiritual and you. need to look after the mental side of.

things you know it's all these are all. weapons in our arsenal we've got to. focus on and if you neglect one. there's always going to be a little part. of your heart that is. going to struggle a bit if you if you. whether it's emotional physical or. mental so you've got to. try and put things in place that help. your mental health. and. and i think people for many years often. neglected that you shut things away but. actually the so many of the things that. help us mentally are simple things like. as you say those connections to people. and that honesty and vulnerability and.

and like we've been talking about not. letting yourself sort of live a life. that actually isn't real not letting. people make you into that hero that you. don't always fear you know stay honest. stay connected talk to people you know. be outside how how many times do we see. studies proving that when we're outside. and we're in the sun and we're. expressing and we're working hard and. we're connected to people that's why the. wild is such an amazing. mental health. weapon to. build up that resource you know in a.

world that often depletes the resource. you know all of this stuff is always. pulling you know if i pulling pulling. you know. leaves you emptier but for me the wild. and connection and the sun and outdoors. and swimming cold rivers and. challenge and failing and all these sort. of things build up. i find for me help my mental health you. can't take your off the ball with mental. health you gotta. and you're not always gonna get it right. and that's okay. is there a time in your life where you. discovered mental health was a. very real thing because of an experience.

that you'd had. because i think for many years i thought. it was something that happened to other. people and then there's a couple of sort. of catalystic events that happened in my. life that made me realize that i am not. immune to anxiety to feelings you know. depressive symptoms and all of those. things but is there something in your. life where there's a pivotal moment. where life events typically are the. catalyst of those things where you go. this is something that i now need to put. as a priority. i think i've been lucky in the sense. that i've i've never suffered from. really bad depression you know where.

many many friends i've stood alongside. have really had battles i think i've. always had a. you know an intuition of when i need to. change something and when i'm struggling. a little bit and when hold on this. this feeling of of anxiety would be. going on a bit oh what can we change. what helps me and i've always sort of. accidentally. found things. that help make that. problem better and for me it's been that. go to being outdoors being with great. friends having a few. just a few good friends rather than lots.

and lots of friends you know even things. like our our be military fit our bmf or. veterans run fitness business has helped. me so much because it's a collective. tribe of. you know often veterans. people who need that camaraderie but. want to train want to stay physically. fit don't want to be in a gym inside. with. white light and all of that they want to. be outside in the fresh air they want to. be down in the dirt a little bit they. want to laugh at themselves in. situations and face a few you know rain. swept early mornings training outside in.

a park together and and. like our physical health the more we can. be aware of the things that do help and. have proven to help. and to gravitate towards so seek those. things in our life be outside be. connected train. you know be honest have a few friends. the more it's gonna help us when we do. have the dark moments and. i've never met anyone who doesn't have. them you know they might tell you they. don't but everyone has these moments and. i certainly i certainly have and. but i've also never met a strong person.

who's had an easy past you know it's. just. part of it if you're gonna go for big. things you're gonna shoot for the top. you're gonna have struggles and failures. and. part of life when was your darkest. moment. one was when i broke my back in the. military and was in. rehabilitation for a long time and you. know so much of my rock in my life had. been that i was physically strong and i. was doing a job i loved and suddenly i. couldn't even reach the bathroom without. excruciating agony and you know my back. broken in three places and.

you know that. you know i had to then leave my job. you know with the military and and it. was just a what am i going to do with my. life you know but i also look at that. time and i think. if i had gone through that i don't think. i ever would have actually had the drive. and the impetus to make that everest. expedition happen at that young age and. have hadn't done that that wouldn't have. opened the door to other things and then. eventually the tv and you know it's like. it's like these. these clouds that often you know it's. why not to be scared when life does hit. you sideways because there's often a.

sort of a plan there you just. gotta try and. keep moving forward towards it but. that was definitely a dark time and i. think also losing my dad at a young age. i mean. shara and my wife and me both lost our. parents within 10 weeks of each other in. year one of marriage and it was we were. young we were 24 25. and uh just starting out on life and i. think we always had that safety net of. our parents behind us you know and and i. think suddenly both losing our dads and.

now being responsible for our mums and. it was uh it definitely took that safety. net away and it was like wow we're both. dealing with trauma here. not always very well but we we gotta i. mean. i look back now and actually it's what. made us made us really tight. and to have a love and a trust and a. vulnerability together that has been a. key thing in our relationship i think. ever since but at the time it was just. pure pain. and a and a huge. hole that. is still there to the day you know i.

mean you know seeing our three boys grow. up great the great loss for me is that. you know they will never know my dad or. he would never know them and how like he. was they are and all of these dynamics. that we. take for granted and so often i see. friends now and they get oh my you know. my mum's a bit poorly and my dad i'm. thinking there's part of me thinking you. know you're so lucky to have had your. parents for that long and we i was. dealing with looking after. my mom and all her sort of bills and. everything and you know when i was 25.

you know it's been going on a long time. but. but at the same time i think my dad. told me so many of the key things in. life which was back to the earlier point. of like. you know be resilient and be kind and. keep going and and those things. i'll always be grateful for and i wish. my only regret is that i'd get a chance. to say to him. wow you were right you were actually. right all along when i kicked against it. and kind of you know you were right. you know fully dreams be kind be.

resilient. never give up and uh i never said thank. you enough for that. that's something i always worry about. my dad is has outlived his siblings. and um. i don't feel like i've made enough of an. effort to stay connected there's. something about us where we just think. our parents are going to be around. forever like you when you see the safety. blanket thing it's like this it's almost. like it reminds me of covid where i. didn't realize the tectonic plate of. society could ever move so i built my.

life like ignorantly on this foundation. that society would be open and that and. then one day someone showed me that. there was even a tectonic plate. underneath me that i didn't know was. there and my parents are the same thing. they've just always been there so i. assume naively that they always will be. but um. what would you say to what advice would. you give me about. well never take that for granted. and never never be scared of saying i. mean. tell him now you know tell him on this. he'll listen to this. he's probably incredibly.

incredibly proud of you. all you've achieved superseded his. wildest dreams of what a sun could be. and he should be proud and. tell him. what would you tell your dad if he was. anything maybe well i think i'd i'll say. thank you for for the little things. you know it's not that it's thanks for. being there on that touch line when i. was linesman. you know thanks for not putting too much. focus just on. success. and school reports and.

being top. thank you very focused on. being kind and having a dream. even though it might not be the path. most trodden. you know but. but go for it if it's your dream go for. it. and thanks for saying that never give up. is the golden currency of life. rather than you know good looks. uh sporty talent or academic brilliance. but you know i think um. for you your dad your dad knows you know.

i'm sure he knows but. never stop telling him. you know because. i think really parental relationships. one of those ones that's always going to. be they're always going to be dynamics. and struggles and. fallouts and arguments stuff but. you can never articulate it too much. that you love someone and you can never. overestimate how much those simple. awkward difficult words to say. mean i mean my great buddy. said. he really wanted to tell his dad one. time he loved him but he knew he was so.

english he wouldn't his father it would. be a really difficult thing to say. and eventually said i'm going to say to. and he said dad i just want to just let. you know i really love you and this song. his dad goes. you've been drinking. you know but the thing is that's okay. your dad would go home that night. knowing that he hadn't been drinking the. guy his son hadn't been drinking but. that was special and i think those. awkwardness backed up thing of doing. sometimes the awkward difficult things. like the prayer with obama. is a really good thing you know and i've.

tried to get better at this in my life. of. saying thank you and and doing nice. things and say saying awkward. but. good things to people i mean i said it. to my great buddy the other day rupert i. said to him. you know. we work a lot together and stuff so i. said you know forget the work side of. these you. you're such a lovely friend. and yeah i literally saw boom i saw the. eyes well out just for a second you know. and it was like you know are you oh. you're great i know it's.

keep training or whatever you're doing. you know but it's sometimes the awkward. things are the good things. and um i hope as i. live and do more in life that i i create. more and more of those moments because. there are many people i'm. like i said i stand on the shoulders of. many giants that are the real heroes in. my life and i definitely consider my dad. one i'd definitely consider those i. served alongside the military many still. friends to this day and when i was with. corporal williams my old you know. squadron. you know patrol commander who's now aged.

you know. 70. and uh lives in martha tidfield i was. with him the other day for a walk in the. brecons. just remind him i go you've been an. amazing friend through life and i'll. never forget the belief you had in me in. the early days thank you you know. i consider the camera crew i work with. in that same vein. and uh. never take those for granted. quick one i just wanted to share a. fantastic initiative from one of my. podcast sponsors for those of you that.

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zappy let me know how you got on with it. in the comments section below. your wonderful wife. i remember you saying once upon a time. if you really want to know someone. you've got to ask the wife and kids. what they're like you know such a isn't. it i mean. what if i asked your wife what would she. say what would she say about the. flawed probably says flawed. flawed. but you know. in what way i think loyalty and and. sticking through things and knowing the. real us and and that we're not perfect.

and we we're. there for each other's is creates a. power to it and i do look at. relationships that are special like. you know with your kids or with your. wife as like stained glass you know you. need to. they're really beautiful. but you've got to protect them and. you've got to protect them number one. and i think it's so easy in life to do. the opposite actually we take that one. for granted and we produce our best. we produce our best for the. at the dinner party to hold court and. say the jokes and you know and it's the.

wrong way round you know it's the wrong. way round save your best. i think it's saying i've learned and. still try and i don't always get right. by any means but i know the goal is to. try and save my best for. those i value the most which is the. closest relationship to you with your. wife and and with your kids you know. make them save the best for them. rather than kind of be tired and grumpy. with them and then go out and then be on. form you know it's trying to shift it. the other way and it's counter culture. but. it's always going to make you happy you. know if and that's why.

i say if you all know what someone's. like ask their wife because don't don't. look at the press reports and don't. read their own stories about themselves. you know ask person who really knows. them when the when the mask is off and. when it's you know the cameras aren't. really they're they're the ones and it's. not say. you know anyone's perfect but but try. and save your best for them and. i think. if you do ask my wife what. i would love her to say. i'd love her to say that i was loyal and.

kind and fought for them. you know that's that's what i just i've. always tried to do in my life and. prioritize them and many times in in my. life in the early days of tv especially. there was so much pressure to. you know be away too much and go and do. that and do the extra episode and do the. extra thing and the you know discovery. channel are asking for one more thing. then you end up. burning burning the things are most. valuable because you're way too much you. you're focusing on this and it always.

creates damage. and i'd say sorry for those times it was. way too much and and and that's why i. fought so hard to start to produce and. make our own shows where we owned the. format and we could decide it's not i go. no it's our boys half term i'm i'm not. gonna even though it's. you know tom cruise or whoever i'm we're. i'm gonna be at the half term for this i. wanna. a shift onto the family. and it's been a great thing it's been a. key thing. and the other stuff is work it'll always. be that you know it'll be there and it's. okay sometimes i fall into the trap of.

doing that so you know you get an offer. come in and it's oh 50 grand or 100. grand to do this thing here it'll take. one day but i'd schedule to be in. indonesia that day with my partner and. i'm looking i'm going can i really turn. down a hundred grand. for one day just like hanging out on the. sofa with my partner it's a new. challenge that i've been contending with. what i mean you've been through this. well i think i think the answer is at. the same time you're hustling and you've. got to work and you've got to build it. and you're building it especially when. you get married and have kids you're.

building for their future and all of us. have this struggle but i think listening. to that inner voice you know a little. bit and there's this line isn't there. that we walk where. you know this side is family this side. is work and the problem is if you only. try and walk this line everyone's always. asking favors you know it's just one off. it's one event there's one thing well. before you know it you're spending too. long on this side of the line and you're. creating damage and loss it's only. damaged so it's losing you're creating. loss on this side and i think what i've. learned is just shift the line a little.

bit you know make the line here oh so. make it even more family orientated. yeah so so. when you drift over the line a few times. which you're gonna do you're still in. surplus you're still a surplus and and i. think the wisdom and experience of life. is knowing do you know what no we should. go and do that i will go and do that. event that's important. but. knowing also the ones that really. protect it's often the little things. isn't it like a. you know like the linesman story you. know like that school play or that. anniversary or whatever and listen i'm.

speaking from a place of flawed. failure through many many times but i've. learned through those things why did you. say that because i got it wrong many. times. yeah just been there and made mistakes. and got them wrong but i've learned. through those. is that it's worth protecting the most. the thing of most value in your life and. i think then with success what happens. you reach a point where. you don't need that extra 100 grand. you know maybe when you're getting it. maybe you've got to hustle a bit maybe. you've got to make some sacrifices you.

do to be successful you have to. sacrifice maybe you know and i was the. same i had to in those early days you. gotta you gotta go that extra mile i'm. not saying you don't you do. but maybe you reach point where enough's. enough and then. then what you're really saying to your. girlfriend or it might be your wife or. your kids at that stage is that i value. you more than a hundred grand and when. you're like successful you know it. doesn't get any easier to say no it. becomes more important. to say no. amen i felt that speaking of work.

really compelled by um. when i read that you're the chief scout. i was like that's the ceo of the scouts. right. is that not the ceo of the scouts. effectively well i don't think i've ever. i've never had an aspiration to be like. a ceo ceo has always felt very important. even though we are on the diary of a ceo. i never feel like i see um. [Music]. greatest honor in my life has been to. you know be a be a small cog in this. incredible worldwide machine of 55.

million young people whoa bound together. by a common set of values of respect and. kindness and humility and and adventure. and determination and life skills and. you know it's an amazing privilege i. never take it for granted it's a. worldwide force for good it truly is the. scout movement is unlike anything else. out there and. it really has been the greatest honour. of my life and. and i love it i can sum up my job as. chief scout three words you know.

encourage encourage encourage you know. and shine the light on those the the. young people because the stuff that they. got get up to the missions they're on. the the efforts the endeavors the expert. what they do is amazing they're leading. the thing on climate change they're. leading in many refugee camps and. disaster areas helping serving and when. you get 57 million young people around. the world saying i make a promise to be. kind and helpful. you know. it's amazing there's a power to that and.

it's brilliant. do you think your. your career is complete. and um i hope not i hope not i'm still. hustling i'm still i like that i like. the struggle i like the fight i like the. ambition we've built a brilliant team. we're pushing many endeavors you know. away from just the tv shows you know i'm. super proud of our be military fit our. veterans fitness business you know we. have our theme parks our adventure parks. at the nec and we're opening up new ones. around the world we have the scout staff.

we you know we have education. initiatives i love it for me it's about. using this god-given platform we've been. given through the tv shows to try and do. exactly the same as we do with the tv. shows which is to shine a light on you. and say look what you can do will it. ever be complete and and i hope not i. think um. it's like my bucket list gets longer and. longer as i live in life yeah it's not. it's like the more things we could we. could do that and we could help do this. and. and i always want to live with that eyes. wide open. you know willing to be all in willing to.

fail willing to pick myself up with. great people have that focused mission. of trying to empower other people. helping other people to find their. adventures in life whether it's through. books or tv shows or whatever to like be. able to go that extra mile to be able to. dig deep to understand the storms of. life come but sometimes you got to be. dogged and determined to keep going i. want to bring that adventure spirit to. people. every day i live on this earth that's. the goal to no end do you know and i. think i mean maybe i'll finish the tv. shows one day you know that that will.

naturally. end in due course i can't i mean to be. honest i never thought i'd still be. doing it now you know but with we're. doing more tv shows than ever before. we're doing a new network show on ustv. next month we're starting season eight. of running while we're you know still. out there gunning it and going and i. love that but the tv shows will end. but the adventures won't you know i i. god willing you know i hope when um old. guy i'm gonna be having loads of. adventures with my kids and eventually. with grandkids and sharing that.

adventure spirit because as you know you. know adventurous is truly a state of. mind whatever you're doing whatever you. know my wife always jokes that i'm gonna. be in the old people's home go come on. come on we're gonna do it we're gonna go. over you know and i think that's a state. of mind that is about pushing the. boundaries and. you know. having that resilience and and that kind. of wide-eyed gratitude for for life and. the connections and because the truth is. the world is amazing and it's a huge. privilege you look at everything that's.

happening around the world there's. hardship and struggling in battle and. and loss and the fact that we get to. you know have our families and have. something we love to do and and that. we're safe and we we live in this kind. of a society that has a rule of law and. all these things are so easy to take for. granted we must never take that for. granted we've got to live with that eyes. wide open thank you and and keep that. adventurous state of mind firing bright. that far inside shining bright. never give up the the name of your.

recent book um this book i got the sense. that it was slightly more special than. previous books to you and that it had. taken five years. to write this book. that you wrote it all yourself. it is it took a long time you know i was. reluctant to write it i wrote an. autobiography called mud sweat and tears. originally. but uh the truth is you know that and. that would do well you know it did 20. weeks at number one and i always kind of. felt that i'm i'm not going to beat that. you know i'm not going to do another but. we're done. but that book really ended as tv started.

and so many of the questions that i get. asked by by my kids and by people in the. street always like the behind the scenes. what was it like on this what was it. like taking that person or what about. the struggles there or whatever and in a. way they're the stories that i wanted my. boys to understand you know and i think. my kids are kind of growing up and. seeing the good side seeing the the. things that have worked but aren't. always aware of the many failures behind. behind those successes. and i wanted to be able to share all of. that and share the things that actually.

made the difference and i wanted to. write it myself and. you know be honest in it and so it took. a long time to write but i'm i'm really. proud of it and i think it. it was always going to be cool never. give up you know it's at a time where i. think the world's coming through an. incredibly. continuous to be an incredibly tough. time and i think that. spirit of relentless determination is. needed more than ever with all people. and young people especially. so i'm proud of the stories and and uh. proud to call it never give up when i.

wrote my book i i didn't realize this. until i wrote it that it was actually. much more a learning process than it was. a preaching process. you because it is a journey writing a. book is there something that you learned. that you didn't know before you started. on that journey of writing never give up. that. who was profound or a problem you solved. from putting pen to paper that you that. you hadn't solved before that comes to. mind well i've definitely learned of for. writing or speaking to be good. it has to be difficult.

it has to be painful you know how often. do we see the person who stands up and. stands on stage and gives a talk and. loves the sound of their own voice and. it's just like it's a ball. they're a ball. you know but the person who's. this is hard to articulate or talk about. but for what it's worth this is where. you know you're there. and it's the same with writing i think. it's got to be vulnerable and it's got a. have that struggle to it. and that's why it took me a while.

what did you find what did you feel. well yeah for me there was a couple of. questions that when i started a chapter. i hadn't actually answered them yet and. by the end of the chapter i'd answered. the question but it was because of that. process is it easy for you to be. vulnerable are you somewhat because we. only think of someone that's been in the. sas and this you know again talking. about the public stereotype here tough. guy resilience. vulnerability seems to be the antithesis. of that for a lot of people the complete. opposite. how have you been you know we talk about. toxic masculinity a lot now i sat here. with terry crews the actor big tough guy.

and his new book tough which is about. toxic masculinity what's your. relationship with vulnerability. were first of all terry crews hero. and one of our running wild guests. actually i took him on one last year and. he was like with you very honest about. some of this stuff. vulnerability. was hard initially but i think it's. it's where life is you know and like. with. like when you climb any big mountain you. know where your rope to someone 24 hours. a day it brings you close.

but it also is where the bonds are you. know and when you. when you're vulnerable with someone it. creates a connection you know you and me. probably feel more connected by being. the vulnerability than the look at this. you know vulnerability creates bonds and. creates strength. but like all these things there's a pain. and a it takes a strength to do it. but i think um i'm not scared to show. that you know i've got nothing to prove. and i don't want people to think it's. just all heroic you know i want people. know that the. that it's just. there's been many struggles through it.

all but these things have quietly helped. me and i always think people have two. phases of their life. one is like. you don't want the world to see who you. really are you're out there you project. this kind of image. and then the second half is you no. longer care you just want to be honest. and when it honest there's there's an. amazing bonds with the really people you. want to create bonds with and some. people have that realization at 25 and. they live the rest of life in this. empowered way some people don't reach. that point until they're 85 they live.

the whole life with this mask and it's. only when they're. with that maybe nurse and a nurse in the. first person they're actually being. honest and vulnerable and broken with. but you eventually realize it you know. and. the goal i suppose of life is to get. this place early because it's where the. wealth is it's where the it's where the. happiness is because you're not going to. pretend any longer. and you can form those deeper. relationships as you said which is. exactly what happens when we have these. conversations there you go. we have a closing tradition on the. podcast which is our last guest asks a.

question for the next guest. so the question is if you had to predict. where will you be. this time. in five years time. wow the truth is i hope to. hope to be. doing the same sort of thing in the. sense that living this mission of trying. to empower other people to find their. adventures through all these different. means you know through the tv shows or. the books or whatever you know i i love. that mission you know it starts with my.

relationship with my kids and it extends. to scouts and it extends beyond that. from there so i hope to have that same. mission maybe at a slightly slower pace. you know we film a lot of shows at the. moment and it it's a way a lot and it's. you know it's it's um. it definitely has full-on elements to it. so maybe kind of dial down the pace a. bit but but. um same mission and and still protecting. family first you know beyond before work.

before before even that mission protect. family first and and keep that those. relationships strong. you know my body aches every day i got. many scars. like an old man getting up in the. morning. but uh i don't apologize for any of. those things and i think by the end of. my life if i can uh i don't want to. arrive in a perfectly preserved body so. i quote i want to come skidding in. sideways covered in scars screaming yo. what a ride you know and that long may. that spirit continue yeah thank you so.

much for the time and generosity i've. got to say this does really feel like a. huge honor for me because of how. infrequently you do anything like this. so i i just want to communicate how much. of an honor this genuinely feels like. for me and i feel very special and i. feel like our team are very i'm honored. to have you here and to have this. conversation with you you're someone. that's achieved an unbelievable amount. and for you to be so honest and because. it would be so easy for you to say to. play into the narrative that you have. super powers but it's almost impossible. to get you to indulge in that and as you. say that makes the things you've.

achieved so attainable for everybody. that's listening including myself and if. it is something that i can learn and. grow in a muscle i can build then that. for me is incredibly empowering and. empowerment. is so evidently at the center of all the. work you do with the scouts with your. new book never give up which i highly. recommend everybody reads the paperback. is out on the 9th of june but it's. really you can tell you've written it. you can tell that it's come from a place. of real authenticity and someone who is. is willing to tell you the truth and we. need a lot more of that so. thank you i'll never be able to say. thank you enough for coming and doing.

this and uh yeah thanks for the. inspiration over the years you've made. you've empowered me just in this. conversation yeah it's like um well. likewise you're doing an amazing job and. thank you your dad he will definitely. know it i'm gonna i'm gonna text him i'm. gonna send him a voice now after this so. thank you thanks thank you. i had a few words to say about one of my. sponsors on this podcast my girlfriend. came upstairs yesterday when i was. having a shower and she said to me that. she tried the heel protein shake which. lives on my fridge over there and she. said it's amazing low calories you get. your 20 odd grams of protein you get.

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