Ashley Walters: The Unheard TRUTH About Top Boy! "Me & Kano Didn't Have The Greatest Time"

I was obsessed with the fact that I was. gonna die young I wanted to hurt people. the way I was hurt some of the things. that go through my head scared me. nice I got 21 seconds to go. top boys are in the building growing up. had a lot of trauma and it made me angry. with the world my dad was in prison you. know so much childhood the local bad. boys they became dead to me and I. started to follow in their footsteps I'm. still paying the price for those years.

now but once I get in front of a camera. it's not that Ashley anymore top boy top. boy top boy the greatest show that's. ever come out of the UK let him up it's. crazy you know it changed my life but. filming the last season me and Kane we. didn't have the greatest time people. don't understand we go hard for that. show we go hard to make sure characters. are being represented in the way they. should be and we Face a lot of. resistance how. the truth is.

2005. you had rekindled your. relationship with your father yeah. and then he died man I never realized. it would affect me that much took me to. some Dark Places making decisions that. [Music]. were gonna come back to haunt me you. know. um. yeah man I want to break down now just. talking about.

[Music]. Ashley I've got an interesting. observation that I wanted to start with. i the way you speak the way you've been. chatting to me before we started rolling. it. almost reminds me of someone who has. had a bit of therapy. or has done some work on understanding. the unobvious subconscious forces that.

are at play in their life and what. you've had to delve into because I think. as is often the case in this podcast I. think our like earliest context shapes. us in a profound way and it's something. that's quite hard to unshape ourselves. with undo as we become adults so what is. that early context that you've um you've. had to reflect on to understand yourself. ah man so where do I start. um so much I mean look I I I. first of all I've had a lot of therapy.

right so I've been in a lot of. situations where. I've been canceled you know I've I've. um. sought help. um. because I needed it right. um. had a lot of trauma I guess that that. has kind of stuck with me over my life. and I think one of the biggest things. for me was. um my dad really that's why I stem back. to like growing up.

um just not having a father figure. around. um and the places that push me to and. don't get me wrong like a lot of people. have gone through that. and come out the other side and not been. like me but I dealt with it in like a. really. crazy sort of way you know it made me. angry. made me angry with the world so all. throughout my you know my soul solid.

years and my early kind of acting years. um my attitude towards life and towards. other people was very I mean it was. wrong you know it was quite negative. and I wanted to hurt people. the way I was hurt. and sometimes I did you know sometimes I. did it came out in a lot of different. ways some of the people I cared about. some of the people were close to me and. some people I didn't know random people. but. got me into a lot of trouble with the.

police. yeah you know I just didn't care about. myself as a team growing up so and look. I had some amazing supportive people. around me like my mum is amazing I've. got an amazing family but that one. niggling thing of kind of being slightly. lost about what a man is. um not feeling like I fit in. rooms with other men you know in groups. of people and stuff like that just like. having this niggling doubt about myself.

all the time. um made me quite a difficult person to. be around. um growing up and trying to explore that. so yeah when I and I didn't know it was. that's why at the time I didn't know I. had anything to do with. you know not having my dad around like. my dad when he was around. you know he was in prison most of my my. childhood growing up that was like. France he used to say he was in France. so to me and my younger brothers like.

any time. you know my mom would be like he's in. France or someone would say he's in. France or whatever that was like code. for prison didn't know at the time. something I learned later on but it was. he was in France a lot of times so you. know I mean it was like. um so there was a few phone. conversations and stuff like that with. him but never had him there and then. when he would turn up he would just turn. up randomly at my at my house and stuff. and one thing I always remember is that. I always wanted to go with him right.

because he was a superhero to me you. know I didn't care as much as the other. adults cared about the fact that he was. you know in and out of my life and what. damage that was doing to me and stuff. like that I was just like I want to see. my dad everyone else has got a dad. why haven't I got a dad you know I want. to know my dad so. I'll give my mom a little credit because. she would never bad mouth him in front. of me even though I know that she wanted. to and. she would always give me the option so.

anytime he would come she was like would. you like to go. and I would obviously go and then I'd. come back crying because something had. happened you know like one of the. you know my dad drank a lot I remember. one time he took me to a party he was. like a family party he was like after a. christening or something like that. um. and he was he got so drunk and they. threw him out he had a fight with. someone in the party and he was he got. thrown up. and I remember having to like oh you.

know maybe like 10 11 tops having to. carry him home. literally down the street like carry. this guy home. um to to my Grands to his mums you know. being chased by the police in the car. you know. him pushing my head down in the back I. just remember that image of him going. like look keep your head down and stuff. like that and he was getting chased by. police and I laugh about it now it's. more on an easy laugh this happened this. is not me being like proud of any of.

this it's just those were my images. those are my images and memories of like. being with my dad but without fail my. mom said you want to go back. I'll go back you know I wanted a dad he. weren't the best dad you know but I. wanted someone there and kind of. eventually when I realized when I got a. bit older and I was kind of angry with. him for how he treated me it became. I'm gonna find other. figures other Dead figures other role. models in my community.

um so the you know the local Bad Boys. the local dealers. they became. that's to me you know and I started to. to follow in their footsteps a bit you. know what I mean and adopt the same. attitude adopt the same Swagger. um you know I think even joining Soul. solid was. was never about music for me in the. beginning it was about belonging it was. about like it was the first time.

you know I was part of a gang and there. was a lot of older men in there in that. group that looked after me and I took. care of me and seemingly at the time. loved me you know what I'm saying as. much as you know as far as I was. concerned so. I spent a lot of years bouncing around. like that the the funny thing is about. it is I was having success throughout. this this you know throughout this. process like. making films and successful TV shows and. music and stuff like that like.

so I guess that I had Talent you know I. had a gift. that was shining through but. um. learning how to be a man. I didn't I didn't get I didn't know you. know I thought that was aggression I. thought that was. don't take no from anyone you know. what I mean don't cry don't take no. be hard. you know try and stand up for yourself. but emotionally I was incapable of the. other stuff that really.

builds the real picture of what a man is. where does the anger come from in that. situation of like abandonment meeting a. father the father not meeting the. expectation that you want him to be. you're I often hear it with um kids like. you're desperate for your father to like. be a father and you you repeatedly give. them another chance to be that person. and they continue to let you down over. and over and over again and it's funny. because I've sat here with like child. psychologists and gabo mate and all of. these Geniuses that study children at a. young age and.

um it's funny how the one thing that. Gabel said to me who's maybe like the. number one child. psychologist in the world said to me he. was like children in any context think. everything's about them they're. narcissists so if the parents were. arguing they interpret that as something. about them and if they so even in the. context of what you've described your. father's Behavior there. you almost. he's got his own problem clearly but you. interpret it as meaning something about. you of course yeah and do you unders.

have you been able to understand what. the interpretation was how you. interpreted that situation. um. and I think not in not in that much. detail but I guess. you know surface wise that that I wasn't. good enough you know I can only say that. because of how I've treated myself. um. because I never I generally generally I. never think. I'm good enough. to be doing. anything that I'm doing you know I.

always feel like there's always like a. sly little bit of meanness like they're. gonna catch me out next week like I'm I. shouldn't have this opportunity you know. I always pla I'm always going to make. the most of it I'm always going to prove. to people that I'm good enough to be. here but I'm always there's always that. niggling doubt of what the other. person's thinking about me you know and. um. and that's something that I'm still. working on today I'm still working on. the whole process of understanding like.

um you know someone else's opinion of me. is none of my business you know what I'm. saying like and just accepting that you. know going into a room and if I see. people talking in the corner wondering. are they talking about me you know. having those like that sort of thought. process is tough but I think it stems. from. um rejection. I think it stems from you know being. abandoned slowly I mean I hate to use.

that word but because you know my mom my. mum will be. upset about me using that terminology. bro because she never understood and. bless her you know actually my mom's a. very intelligent woman but one thing she. couldn't understand emotionally was the. fact that I still wanted him you know. and even you know up until he died and. after he died there was loads of moments. where. I was broken. and she would she was just like what is. wrong with you like why you know you.

didn't really know him like that like. why are you you know she just didn't get. that. yeah I just wanted him to be proud you. know if anything you know I'd just love. him to see me now I'd love him to. understand like. who have become what I've achieved I. think in the beginning that was more. about. that was like a stick your finger up. sort of thing like even without you. I did great you know.

um but the reality is like the last. encounter I had with him was the most. beautiful encounter. um ever you know maybe I've ever had. with any person that I love like and. he said some things to me that really. have stuck with me you know really I. changed my life going forward but. you know he didn't he didn't care. he was like and I mean he cared about me. but he didn't care about the stuff that. I was doing he was like that's. meaningless it's like.

you know all of that can be taken away. at any time you know I'm glad you've Got. Talent I'm glad you feel fulfilled in. like what you're trying to achieve in. life when your life goes on that but. I wouldn't care if you did that or you. didn't it'd still be my son and I'd. still love you as much as I do and. he was always concerned about my fight. my fight for perfection. because I spend a lot of time like.

trying to dig deep to make things. perfect right and. it's only now I know that nothing. nothing can be perfect there's no such. thing you know. and I think I eventually understood like. you know it's not always gonna go. my way right I have to be slightly more. willing to. to adapt and to accept that. um and when I have been. more willing to accept it.

um. good things have happened you know I. gotta be open to it. he passed away in 2005 right yeah yeah. and by that time. you would. sort of rekindled your relationship to. some degree I when I was reading through. I think it's so solid. um page 12 you referred to him at that. time as a waste of space. which I guess was a reflection of how. you were feeling about him at that time. yeah I mean it's so funny you bring that.

book up because. [Music]. I don't even I won't even read that book. really I don't even think I've ever read. it if I'm honest review and I mean yeah. I mean there's not that much to read if. I'm honest it's a lot of pictures but. um but yeah probably that's I mean. that's how I felt for a lot of the time. I think those last two weeks. when I was in I was shooting Get Rich or. Die try and I was in Canada he forced. his way out.

to come and see me because. you know he knew how I felt about him. and he knew he only had weeks left to. live and he was like look I have to have. to come and see you. and he came and he lived with me for. those like two weeks. and I was already in the process of like. so I had this thing back then that I was. gonna die when I was like 33 I'd been. I've been something that I said to my. mum from a young age and she was like. randomly one day at like six seven he.

was like you're gonna die at 33 or. whatever. and she's like I don't know where you. got that from but you've been obsessed. with that. and as an adult I was obsessed with the. fact that I was gonna die young right I. wasn't going to survive past that age. so I got someone to start filming me. every day and I got a friend to just. start documenting my like daily life on. camera. and.

when I went to Canada to shoot I took. the camera with me and just said look. I'll get some like some footage myself. um when you're not while you're not here. my dad came and I just decided to turn. the camera on. so I did so every night you know while. he was there he was like you know go and. get me some weed this guy had lung. cancer and could hardly breathe he's. like I'm gonna be some weed and you know. I'll get him some drink and stuff like.

that and we'll be sitting there for. hours like. for hours and hours and I just put the. camera down on the table and that and. just filming and just ask him the most. random questions just about life like. um you know where was you. where was he at this time where was you. that time whatever. and the guy was like. for context when I was in prison I was. in prison in like 2001 right and he.

wrote to me a few times and it was the. first time I understood that my dad was. illiterate like he couldn't read or. write. so these letters were so like it's just. up man it was just like I was. like I had no idea that he had that. issue. and I read these letters I was like wow. so that. gave me another level to my hate for him. it was like. now you're dumb as well like yeah do you. know what I mean it was like. yeah I really don't like it like I don't.

know so it was evil but it was just. another excuse for me not to like him. right. um. so cut back to being in Canada. he um. I sat down with him and filmed them. and found out that he was one of the. most intelligent people I know. just from being Street wise just from. life experience to get on saying like it. it actually burnt me because I didn't. want him to know anything I didn't want.

him to have anything to really offer me. in the end when I delved deeper into who. he was as a person but all the things I. was going through with women with life. with you know what I mean it was like he. had a wealth of knowledge that he could. speak to me about he couldn't write it. down couldn't really articulate it. in the greatest way but just listening. to his kind of anecdotal sort of stories. and whatever. I got what I needed to get from it and I. filmed him kind of going through it.

um. but there was also like a huge fear as. well you know I realized in that moment. that. he had he had genuine excuses for being. the person he was I mean he grew up he. didn't have the greatest upbringing you. know he was in care. he was slightly neglected by his own. parents you know and. you know he was the bad kid of the bunch. and he just kind of got pushed out and. that kind of led to his life and things. happened etc etc but I understood it.

from his point of view when I heard him. talk about it and I was like actually. okay I can see why you would be the. person that you are and actually maybe. you did me a favor by not being there. too much because who would I be you know. would I be the person I am today and. um but then you know after realizing I. love this guy and I'm enjoying spending. time with him and we were like good. friends and we went to clubs to give her. out there this guy's like. you know thin. like way for Finn like on death's.

doorstep. and he was making the effort to come out. with me and you know Rave and do all of. this stuff. and um. but at night. at bedtime I slayed in my bed awake. every night just staring at the ceiling. thinking he's gonna die here because. he was just coughing all through the. night man it was like you know like he. was coughing up his lungs like. I was like what.

I was praying that it didn't happen you. know there. um. and then he died man he'd like you know. he left. left literally got off the plane. they rushed him to hospital because he's. he was going on the plane rushing to. hospital he died. um whilst I was filming and. you know it wasn't the best way that I. found out. um.

I was filming at the time I was doing a. scene with 50. and it was like a really emotional scene. um. outside on location. and. the vibe just changed on set like. you know in between takes everyone. stopped talking and it was quiet it was. like this and like. The Producers were just like looking at.

me. and I was like nah I knew. do you know me something had happened I. knew something was wrong. and they was like look we're gonna take. a break just. go and call home. you need to call home actually. so I went to my train line called my. partner at the time and she was like. sorry man. I mean he's gone so I was. tough it was tough it was tough moment. this tough moment.

um. yeah and I was I was broken. I was broken I never realized. it would affect me that much. broke me. and um. crazy but the one thing I remember from. that moment is I went to my trailer I. broke down some of the actors came like. Troy Bryant she came in and she was just.

like just hugged me and I was just. crying and stuff. and 50 came in and was. he won't remember this and I know it. wasn't malice or is there any bad. intentions but he was like. I'm sorry to hear about your dad. and it just started talking about a. scene to someone you know when someone's. like sorry to hear about your dad man. anyway. um whatever and I was like. you know talking to him after is like.

he's been through some. some you know that's made them. really like. um I hadn't been through anything like. that. you know at that point that was my first. real. kind of close encounter with. death. like and. having someone that meant so much to me. and pass away. um but my first instinct was you know to.

work to continue working I continued. working. I flew back for the funeral. for literally one day. did the funeral and then I left I went. back to work. um. I just plowed through and I didn't. grieve. and I haven't. you haven't I don't think I have you. know I don't. I don't know what you call it because. even like now I want to break down now. just talking about I don't know it's.

just like. 2005 right it's like 18 years or. whatever so I mean is that an indication. that I haven't. dealt with it enough. yeah I don't know. the feelings you have towards his his. loss are they are they complicated. are they because are there unanswered. conversations are there is there is. there any regrets in there is there what.

are what were those feelings because. your mother as you said is was surprised. by your reaction to his loss. from him dying I lost. I went off the rails a bit. you know I went off the rails a bit when. the sense of. my ego took over and I lost. any. sort of spiritual. connection that I had with. life or the universe up until that point.

you know I'm I'm never been the most. religious person but I've always been a. believer in. in like the universal law right like in. in if I give I will get. you know in there in the in a way that. things are meant to be you know anything. that's. happened in my life. has been. manifested in some sort of way you know.

when I wanted to be in so solid I knew. who so solid were before they knew who I. was you know and I was I made a I looked. in the mirror one day and said I'm going. to be in that group you know and that. was. I was a little boy on the streets. working out ways to. to be and the universe can constantly. bring in people around my situation. that was connected to that situation. that was Bridging the Gap for me you. know so I I only had to be I only had to.

you know focus and believe or whatever. so I believe in all that all that stuff. but when it comes to when my dad passed. I like I lost a lot of that. those beliefs I lost a lot of that. understanding and I became slightly like. yeah just lost you know lost I was. you know I drank more I you know I I did. I cared less about myself. about where I was going and about you.

know what I wanted in life and stuff and. um. yeah that led me on a on a different. a different sort of Journey you know. um. took me to some dark places if I'm. honest Dark Places. yeah man just like. like definitely not making. decisions purposely making decisions in.

life that. we're gonna come back to haunt me you. know. um. they'll come in a big thing for me was. like. my relationship at the time. um. I gave up on you know I gave up on it. um.

I became quite like promiscuous. you know I abused the the. celebrity that I had you know like I I. gave into the the Temptation that was. around me a lot more. um. you know and I really hurt my my first. partner. um by being that person and actually. that resulted in. in me having two kids out of my.

relationship you know so two of my. children. who I love daily. um. you know came from from that situation. but I think that was like a big part of. my like. you know my reckless sort of rebellious. sort of attitude and I I mean the only. way I can put it is that I I became I. came before everyone at that point you. know me and my ego and like the world. revolved around me and I think before. that point even though I did have. moments of being quite Wayward and.

whatever I was still. um. caring loving Ashley you know. that's how I that's how I grew up. um. but yeah I definitely came out of my box. from that point on. um and I I guess to me at the time it. was like. you only live once. you know I don't fear anyone whatever.

happens happens it was that whole thing. that was going on but. um. I'm still still paying the price for. those. those years now. I think this is fascinating I looked at. the back end of our YouTube channel and. it says that since this channel started. 69.9 percent of you that watch it. frequently haven't yet hit the Subscribe. button so I have a favor to ask you if. you've ever watched this Channel and. enjoyed the content if you're enjoying. this episode right now please can I ask.

a small favor please hit the Subscribe. button helps this channel more than I. can explain and I promise if you do that. to return the favor we will make this. show better and better and better and. better and better that's the promise I'm. willing to make you if you hit the. Subscribe button do we have a deal. those tapes. um have you still got them. it's another upsetting story man like. so I set up a production company me and. a good friend of mine at the time.

but. I was a nightmare to deal with you know. this the demons. were there and I've I don't I didn't. give a hundred percent. into this company at all so like a lot. of the weight was left on them. to kind of hold it up and then I think. this person this guy was going through. his own. troubles as well at the time with his. dad and his family and stuff so. you know it was a disaster in the end.

but. either way you know we had an archive of. footage that we created from filming. that we never knew what was going to use. it for but all the stuff I filmed. my dad went into this archive. um and when the company actually was. dissolved and. you know we kind of fell out at that. point. he took all the tapes and the footage. and for how many years now I've been.

asking to get it back because we don't. speak you know but for maybe 10 years. now I've been trying to send messages. through people I know know him and stuff. like that and I've just had no response. you know and the last thing I want to do. is. go into some legal sort of. battle for it or whatever but. it's the last you know the other stuff I. can let go but the stuff with my dad. like it's the last. things I've got I don't have pictures of.

him you know I know I don't have like. family portraits and anything like that. all I really have is those those tapes. and they're like. they're like my um. do you know that movie um things to do. in Denver when you're dead yeah. they're like you know it's like that to. me it's like gold dust it's like. I can I could probably watch those tips. and it could probably help me through a. lot of tough times that I face now or. maybe even my kids you know maybe even.

um help the boys somehow so. it'd be nice to get them back it's it's. really sad it's like it's hurtful man. and uh and I hope one day I can resolve. that situation. do you even know if that person still. has them. do you know what I mean I could be. sitting there with the you know thinking. that he has them but he might not I'm. pretty sure he does pretty sure. that last two weeks with your father. before he passed away. um my first question is did you did you. know he was going to pass away soon.

and um. what did you take from that those two. weeks of sitting with him and asking. what is the what did you walk away with. that you didn't have in that moment you. knew he was much more intelligent than. you ever knew but the the lessons you. speak of that you've have stayed with. you ever since and that have seemingly. guided you. what were those lessons I knew he was. going to pass away. um. I hadn't accepted it yeah you know but. it was obvious that he was going to die. right it was obvious.

um. lessons. um I think is I got from it what I what. I. one of the key things I needed and I. think one of the key things you need. from. knowing your dad is. knowing where you come from. I think that's such a it's just such a. key point in. being a dad like if my son can look at.

me I can look at my son and kind of. he knows who I am he knows where I came. from he knows what my values are you. know what I expect of him and stuff like. that then I think it makes him easier. for him going out there to be just a. person to be a human being when you are. when you're constantly looking for that. reference point right. you're lost you know and and. when I spent those two weeks with him I. kind of got a better understanding of oh.

okay this is why I. do that funny thing with my eye when you. don't mean I'm lying or this is why I. feel this way at this point and. you know he was powerful as a man he. didn't have anything. didn't have anything but. he used some sort of confidence and. charm right that.

you can't buy like you know what I mean. um. and I felt that and I saw that in him. and it made me understand about. I should feel more like that by myself. do you know what I mean. I should feel more. powerful look you don't have to be a. you know when you're. you know when you're confident. doesn't have to come across that way.

but he had he had that like that level. of confidence with like a. some beautiful sort of humility. that went with it but you know. and that was my dad that was my dad's so. it made me know that I can be that. person you know. that I don't need to doubt myself as. much as I do. um and he Stripped Away From Me He. constantly in that little time I spent. with me Stripped Away all the because I.

was like hiding myself. in success. I've got this I've got this watch I've. got this car this Co and staying in this. apartment and this and that or whatever. and he didn't give a about any of. that. and I don't know whether he was doing it. on purpose but he genuinely was like. well I mean it's it's good I mean but. and he he. knew a lot more about me than.

and thought he did. so. he'd paid attention. somehow. um. but I walked away from that. meeting that encounter knowing. that he loved me. and knowing that he was proud of me you. know he was proud. um. and that was good enough. what would you say to him if he was. listening now.

um. I think I I didn't tell him. thank you. no I I hope he didn't get on that plane. feeling like. in a feeling that I was still unhappy. with him. because I treated him quite bad you know. especially when I mean when he was going. through his cancer when he told me he. had cancer I was like. whatever like I don't even believe you.

you're probably just saying it for me. because you want me to talk to you yeah. that's how I that was my attitude. towards towards him in that period of. time that's how much anger I was holding. so. you know I let go of a lot of that. whilst we was together. but. I do wonder if there was any doubt in. his mind when he left you know because I. couldn't you know it's not like I was. like you know all over him and touchy. feely and kissing him and you know. rubbing him and stroking him and stuff I. still kept a bit of a.

you know a toughness about it like I'm. not gonna let you in like that you know. but I do. I do hope. that he could read between the lines and. know that. I'd. softened slightly and like let him in a. bit. if you can see all the success you've. had now what do you reckon you'd think. all that you've done. it'd probably try and tell me like you. know. it'd be like you're not doing this right.

you're not doing that right you could. improve in this area in that area and. whatever but uh probably butt heads. about it but you know that'd be all good. I I take that now in hindsight you know. I mean I'd take it you're trying to be. your dad I mean that's it yeah yeah. that's it mines do the same yeah. yeah some I I do Envy some of my. friends that I know like I've got really. good relationships with their dads and. dads have looked over their contracts.

and. stuff like that you know I mean I've. been a major part of their life. you know I'm determined to do that for. my my kids if they ever need it in. hindsight though we we look at the some. of the most difficult things we've been. through and overcome and we understand. the correlation that has with. the better things about us all the. things that we're proud of like there's. often a surprising link between the. worst thing that's happened to us or the. worst trauma we've had and the best. thing that's happened to us and as I was. listening to all of that you know you.

use this word talent at the very. beginning you said I must have had just. had a talent. but. I'm not necessarily sure what you mean. by talent because. um you grew up with an ability to have. um that talent in multiple areas you. were you had it in music you had it. acting in a very young age and there's. part of me that Wonders that you know. about the link of the things that you. went through in the circumstances you. were in and how that left you with this. trait you described as not quite ever.

think in your work or you were good. enough how that actually all played into. your drive and ambition. to go that extra mile to work that extra. hour to spend an extra hour in the. editing studio and I often see in people. that when they have that feeling of like. some call it imposter syndrome I don't. like the term that they actually produce. better work because they end up becoming. the perfectionist that you your father. told you not to be so it's interesting. that there's a correlation there and. um well if I asked you.

know because I was looking at this and. you start acting super young I'm. wondering how it's possible that at 15. years old you are not only joining one. of the most successful groups at the. time in so solid crew but you're also. acting on the BBC 15 16 7 17 years old. you're doing two things that most people. never I mean if if one person had just. been in so solid crew that would be a. success they would be a success but for. you to be doing both things at the same. time what have I missed here like what.

is it about you that. um your character traits your philosophy. your mindset that you think has really. guided you through that process I'm. gonna I'm gonna struggle to really to. answer this Stephen if in all honesty. because. kind of involves. like um. it kind of involves digging myself up. a bit more than I'm comfortable with if.

I'm honest. um. but. since we're here yeah another joke. um now I think it's more. look I don't I don't. I believe there's that some of that. charm that we spoke about that I saw in. my dad. I I know I have in me right so I have. the I had that ability I know how to. talk to people right I know if I kind of.

if I get into a situation like this with. me and you like I can make people like. me you know what I mean. it's a little thing that I've got. um. and I try and. bring that out in the characters that I. play on the screen. um I think I always bring a bit of. myself. to the roles I play so as much as I'm. hiding behind these characters or. whatever. the engine room is Ashley. and if I can find ways.

to. use my trauma to portray this I do. I think. outside of the ring when I say ring I'm. in the acting space. I'm humble you know I don't brag. keep it simple. and I treat people as good as I can you. know what I mean and I give back a lot. you know I'm always about like.

trying to help other people. it's always been a part of me so I think. that's helped move me forward and I. think especially in in like within the. black community. you know where I was one of the first to. kind of break through when there was. only a few black faces on screens and a. lot of black people that are you know. maybe in their 40s now have grown up. watching me. um that's the Ashley that they know.

you know I think I'm never. I've always been quite accessible. um. I've never like turned my back. on. you know where I came from you know for. some reason in some way I've managed to. stay in that place where it's like. oh it's Ash yeah yeah you know what I. mean I'm like. um you ever lost sight of yourself yes. like.

people are comfortable around me this is. why I like still to this day you know a. lot of people are like. bro why are you just walking down the. street or why are you just on the train. or why are you just sitting in this like. because I can because people don't. really. you know they don't really want to like. I don't have the. you know I mean the Justin Bieber effect. on people like you don't have to shut. down stores or whatever when I come in. like people look and stuff like that but. it's like I just feel like they've got.

they used to me yeah yeah you know what. I mean and I think like I mean I'll. straighten off point a bit but I think. like all of this. as part of my character as part of my. personality ties into what I've been. working for so long you know why I've. managed to maintain relationships in the. industry and. um why I have a solid. like fan base you know solid base of. supporters that will show up. to my shows to watch my films or watch.

do you know what I mean why it makes us. to invest in me yeah it makes it and we. often don't think about the role that. people skills will play over a long. period of time but it's like a force. that's either it's like an invisible. force like your reputation in terms of. how you've shown up for people that will. um when you zoom out. we'll catch up with you either way For. Better or For Worse you know what I mean. yeah that's it let's call it like. invisible PR it's like what how you've. treated people along the way well and. people don't often focus on that because.

there's other things they might try and. focus on but that Force that's kind of. just. making sure people call you when there's. the opportunity or they recommend you in. a room you're not in and that all comes. down to everything you've just said. there if I'm honest reviews help me so. much in the sense of I've made mistakes. along the way. you know I've made mistakes. that I've not necessarily been public. mistakes I'm I've never say that I'm a. perfect person. but when I have made those mistakes.

people that have known me have supported. me. you know what I mean so because. you know I've been good I've been good. to people like so. um. you know when we live in a world today. where. you know any minute people can turn. their back on you any minute people can. you know cancel you or whatever they. want to call it and and that happens day. in and day out. um.

so you know I feel like I feel really. proud of the fact that. I've been as genuine. as I can be. coming up if I was one of your kids then. and I come to you and I say Dad listen I. want to be an actor. no. well no I couldn't I couldn't I mean I. couldn't tell them no but I I would be. worried why. it's just hard it's it's a hard. industry to crack yeah but you did it. Dad yeah I did it but I don't know how.

I'm yet to know what the blueprint is. it's tough you know my students at. Kingdom asked me this all is all the. time and I'm like all I can teach you is. like how to prepare. how it's going to happen when it's gonna. happen or whatever that is like it's an. anomaly man that's like it comes when it. comes right and you just got to be kind. of ready for it at the time but yeah I. mean my kids. and the worst thing about it is like. most of them probably are going to do.

something. in entertainment I can see that. um so it's going to be tough it's going. to be tough for them it's going to be. tough for me. um but is it is a um. is a rocky road and it's a it's a tough. life and. but I will support them on the way what. is that so if I go if I was like that. what do you mean Rocky Road. Rocky Road meaning. you know for years I'd say only in the. last. 10 years I've been financially stable.

I've been acting all of my life. so not knowing sometimes how I was going. to feed my children. you know. what was going to happen next you know. just whether I was coming or going it. was just unstable. it's just unstable. um. and. the rejection is immense man like you. have to be really. tough in places when it comes to.

80 of it is people just telling you no. this ain't gonna happen. you're not going to be able to do it. that's probably not going to work sorry. we don't want you not this time you were. great but you know what I'm saying it's. like that a lot of the time what people. get to see is it is that little ten. percent that works why don't you listen. to them. because I you know I spoke to someone. close to you and they told me they said. it's funny because earlier on un I'm not.

gonna you weren't good at saying no to. people right because you said you have. these people please attendancies when I. spoke to people close to you they said. you're not good at hearing though either. as in someone says no to you it turns. into driving motivation. yeah well so why don't you listen to. them when all these people rejected you. and said no it's not going to work. you're not going to be in this movie or. this thing. it's kind of phone me a bit that is now. I'm thinking about who you spoke to.

our team they say that you know you're. when you when someone says no to you. like you can't direct Ashley yeah you. know yeah yeah I I mean I mean. I have that but I'm not like I don't. have it in a way of like not in a rude. way but it's a motivation it does it. does yeah it does you know I stay when. I'm silent that's when people should. worry about me. because you know that's when I'm that's. what I'm thinking how to get around you. or how to do that thing that you.

you said I can't do but. when someone says you can't do something. Ashley Walters you can't do that um how. does that feel. I don't like to I mean it doesn't feel. good it doesn't feel good. um especially when I know there's a way. especially when I know that I can. you know or I believe that okay. um I just prefer people to let me try. and if it fails then we can both agree.

ah maybe it wasn't gonna work the way I. said it was and it would try a different. way or we don't revisit it. um. but I need the opportunity to. to bring how I feel to to the table and. yeah there have been times where I have. accepted. like it's not going to work or whatever. and I've regretted it after because. someone else has come and done it. um so I've I think I've become I've got.

tougher with that over the years. and like the directing thing was one of. those things because I was told like you. know you can't direct it was my own show. that I created it was like now you. haven't got enough experience. like yeah I've watched some of the. directors you bought on here. that would be. I've got more experience than them I've. been I've been filming since I was like. seven.

um. and to hear that is like you know it's a. kick in the teeth but. I went to you know I went to my business. partner after that I was like how do we. change this. and he was like well if you're serious. about it let's make a short film so. we're making a short film we might have. made a short film. got some money from Skye made this short. film. now that came out but I think actually. what happened in that process was.

I liked it. I wasn't expecting to like directing so. much at that point it was about. you want experience I'm gonna get your. experience the best experience that you. could possibly have. um but actually throughout the process I. was like nah I like this man I enjoy. this process. um. and that's spiraled into me. do more yeah you said you talked about. Kingdom there um those students that. come to you that you Mentor that ask you.

you know you said okay you can't. help them figure out how and when it's. going to happen but you can get them. prepared what is preparation for the. life you've lived. uh boy. um. well I make a I make a make a point of. always saying to them that if you've. come here trying to. um have my journey. you're gonna have to go to prison. you know lose your dad this that. whatever I told them all the negative.

things that's happened because that's. what's made me so I was speaking to. Laura about this I was like look I can't. sit there and regret things that have. gone wrong because the truth is. if they had if those series of events. hadn't happened in the way they happened. on the days they happened I wouldn't be. sitting here now and I wouldn't have all. the great things that I have the kids. and this and that any little thing that. was different might have changed the. whole course of my life so I have to. accept that would you erase it would you. erase your dad passing going to prison. if there was a button in front of you.

now no I couldn't no really I couldn't. well if I erased that then I might have. you know you know like that picture in. um in Back to the Future where he's like. he when he's not getting home or. something like and his brother starts to. fade away his sister starts to food it's. like if I raised that and brought my dad. back I might erase like four of my. children you know what I mean. actually Six Degrees of Separation you.

might not be here. you never know right so. um no I couldn't I couldn't you have to. you have to live with it and I say this. to students it's like. so it's not about the journey it's about. how you use your journey and more. importantly. enjoying the journey. because I tell you now Stephen. it's not that enjoyable. where I am the the.

best parts. of what I've achieved has been along the. way do you know what I mean the people. I've met the fun I've had doing things. the filming the memories this and that. or whatever actually the looking back. the challenges the people saying no so. what I had to do to get around that to. to get there and whatever it's actually. like I think when you clock the game. it's like oh. I'm not saying I've clocked it but I'm. saying I can see with the people that I. know that are like in that space where.

they've kind of like there's not much. more to do. I think it's pretty boring. like I don't envy them. you know I don't envy them I may want. that Lambo but I don't envy where. they're at yeah yeah like you know that. space that they're in because there's. nothing much more to achieve it feels. like and I'm always like I have to have. a fix like I have to there has to be. something else like I'm very.

can be very fickle like that like I can. be very focused and determined and. whatever and now like I'm doing this. Disney show and it's like I've shot the. Disney show and you know I'm editing but. I want it to end now. because I want to do another show so let. me play out this the scenario then. actually oh it's funny because as you. were saying that I was imagining someone. coming into your life and saying Ashley. you can't work for another two years you. just gotta sit at home but then I. remembered we we had that oh yeah the. pandemic yeah. how did you respond to that not well.

sitting down is not not good for me. and I met my wife and I we can't. we can really go on holiday together. because what she wants to do is. read books she didn't get to read and. lie on sun lounges as a staff and I'm. like. I can't I can't live like that you know. I need to be doing something Something's. Gotta happen or be happening what if it. doesn't.

for me it's uncomfortable it's. uncomfortable. what was the pandemic like in the first. couple of weeks sat at home alone. nothing can't go to the gym can't move. that was tough man that was tough like. taking away. my work from me and you know all of. those. all of that talk of me being that hard. love to be there more with the kids and. love to speak with my wife a lot more. whatever I realized now I didn't I I. weren't ready for it I weren't ready for.

24 hours. with my family I wasn't used to it. I was always used to having a a release. or knowing that all right I'm gonna have. this week full-on at home but then next. week I'm going there I'm doing this I'm. doing that so there was always something. coming. um but. yeah it was a it was a struggle it it. opened up a lot of. um. a lot of things in our relationship.

definitely I mean me and the missus you. know. um. we dealt with a lot. yeah we argued a lot throughout that. period of time it was like it was tough. it was a lot of things I didn't realize. irritated me. you know maybe about her and vice versa. you know she realized there's a lot of. things that. irritated her about me. um I guess because we're spending so. much time together. um if I was to fly on the wall in your.

household at that time what would I what. Ashley would I have seen. um in that first couple of weeks yeah I. mean them depressed no they were sad. depressed yeah slightly yeah not worried. about I mean worried about the state of. the game worried about where we was I. mean I was one of those people that was. worriedless if I was am I gonna die do. you know what I mean that was like one. of my first thoughts like. did you have a breakdown. no I don't think I had a breakdown I.

don't think I had a breakdown. I kind of know where you're yeah I mean. there was I had a moment I did have a. moment because I think. I think the pressure. the pressure of not it was it was hard. for me not to. not to have the choice to work. like it was hard for me not to have the. choice to do. certain things with my life.

um. you know and um. yeah it took it it took its toll on me I. think I don't know I don't know if I'll. go as far as saying I had a breakdown. but I was very depressed I was very I. was very low. that's very low the reason I asked the. question is because someone who I think. you remind me of myself in many ways. where I think at some level I'm getting. some of myself esteem and some of my. self-worth from my work like by by being. successful in my work I think I feel.

like I'm good in myself to some degree. it's probably an illusion but it makes. me feel that way it's probably the same. reason people buy Lamborghinis like it. is an illusion it's not going to fill. the void but it keeps me stable the. chaos keeps me stable. um and that's why I ask the questions. because it's one of those moments in our. lives where for someone like you where. your work is requires you to be on sets. mine I could still do for my laptop. right but for you you have to you have. to be on sets and all that stuff shut. down. we lock down.

um so how does one because I'm guessing. here that you have a the same. relationship with your work on some. level where it makes you feel like. you're you're good yeah yeah like you're. enough yeah yeah I mean yeah. you're right you're hitting in the head. I mean I can't I can't. articulate it any better I guess that's. what happened it stripped a bit of me. away and I became. a civilian do you know what I mean it.

was like. the the little part of me that made me. slightly different to to the people. around me had been taken away and I just. had to be Ashley. and just and actually sit with my. thoughts and deal with my flaws you know. you'd spend a long time distracting. yourself yeah 100 but it became evident. you know I was drinking a little bit too. much I smoked a lot. um you know I was biting my nails.

I know this thing sounds stupid but to. me they were like. things I'd never been able to conquer. um and. became more apparent and evident where I. had nothing else to do sitting with. yourself and sitting with your thoughts. um. how's that for you it wasn't great. wasn't great at the time. um it's not I mean it's not always great.

now. I'm a strong believer in that. um that voice in my head. is a mug. is not the right person for me to be. listening to really I don't believe. anyone should listen to voices in there. if I'm honest review. your head is. an extension of you right it's going to. be trying to like it's bias it's gonna. be telling you majority of the time. telling you the you want to hear.

you know telling you stuff that's not. really happening but. you know trying to justify I I just. think you know why is he a mug that. voice in your head because um he's made. me make some terrible. decisions in my opinion. um. nowadays I try to uh. try to quiet and. the voice as much as possible Right.

um. and connect. I think that's the most important thing. to do like if I can. if I'm sitting there thinking something. and I'm. no I don't know the answer something. maybe emotional something. it's like it makes more sense. to call my mom. want to call someone else you know I. mean or to speak to open up to my wife. about it and go what do you think about.

this. and get someone else's perspective and. then make. decisions but I feel like. you know as emotional creatures as we. are as humans and we know a lot of a lot. of our the moves that we made that make. are based on. you know emotion anger fear you know. jealousy this that whatever. I just think you don't you should never. be making decisions. in that in that frame of mind you know.

you should always. have someone to bounce something off but. I just don't think the voice in your. head I mean look in my in my opinion. um not my life the voice in my head has. never been. the best voices I've done some. some of the most stupid things. because I. said to myself it's the right thing to. do the personality of that voice. angry you said. yeah at times.

look there's a there's there's a bit. there's a very vengeful. person somewhere inside of me I believe. we've all got that part of us you know. um. some of the things that go through my. head sometimes scare me. um. because I've been hurt. and I've been hurt and sometimes it. feels like the easiest thing to do is. hurt other people. but I'm just glad that I have the. ability. to control.

those feelings and to and to think about. things and to kind of always. in in any how I can do it move forward. with with love and I have a clear. understanding that. you know I hurt people hurt people so if. you can if you can. if you can forgive. you know you're not you're doing. yourself a great favor first and. foremost if you can forgive if I can.

forgive the people that hurt me right do. you forgive. everybody in your life I don't think. I've got around to forgiving everyone I. think I do carry a lot of a lot of. baggage but I'm working on it and I'm. working on it. um. and I'm working on making amends with. other people as well that. maybe don't forgive me. you know. um but what I do know is the people that. maybe I don't forgive they probably. forgotten who I am.

you know but I'm sitting there thinking. about them. all the time and it's like so who's. really hurt. you're hurting yourself yeah that's the. nature isn't it of holding The Grudges. which we will do but it just it does not. no damage to the other person does it I. remember reading that quote one day and. it was like forgiving someone is like. letting a prisoner go and realizing and. doing so that you were the prisoner the. whole time like you can imagine opening. the gates to the jail and seeing. yourself run out yeah yeah.

you said something quite curious there. which gave me a train of thought which. is sometimes I just want to speak to my. my wife. Danielle about it now speaking to your. wife. about it when I think about the other. points you've given me about not being. like grown up the way you did you've. emotion not coming naturally to you. I'm guessing you like me in some. respects where because I having. the kind of conversations that you need. to have to keep a woman in your life. don't come naturally to me either I.

don't I still don't even call my parents. but I'd never call my parents mum or Dad. I just don't I didn't have that. affection growing up so if you don't. build the ability to communicate in a. certain way and to listen in a certain. way and show emotion in a certain way. you have no chance of being in a loving. committed relationship and getting all. the benefits of that what Journey have. you been on with like because it's funny. because I was thinking about that moment. where you look down together and the war. and much of the war is like. either one person or two people that.

don't know how to communicate properly. yeah that was that was the war the war. was because Dan is like. she's the most loving. caring. tactile. to a person I've ever met in my life. like. to the point that when I first met her. um when I first met her no when we first. started dating I met her a long time. before we started dating right when we. first started dating.

and I met her family. and I saw how a family. are together like. it made me sick. and I know now that was it was jealousy. because I just never. I love my mum and I know my mom loves me. but. we can go without talking for two weeks. we're not all over each other hugging do. you know what I mean like we just have. that really clean.

relationship yeah yeah yeah yeah it's. like that like. um whereas Dan's family was completely. different I'd come home. you know to the to to the flat and. they'll all be lying on the sofa. together like lying in each other's laps. her her brothers her mum or whatever. then her dad would come out the kitchen. oh you were right Ash whatever it's just. like this whole about and in the. beginning I was like oh this is great. and on me like I I can't.

I can't deal with this. this is weird you know that was my first. reaction this is weird. but um. I've learned to love it I become a part. of that family and I've learned to. realize that I want some of that. I wanted some of that you know I wanted. some of that doesn't make me love my. like family any less. but it's nice to get. some of that loving like some of that.

you know physical. stuff. um so yeah that's where Dan comes from. so her side of the street is always like. I'm like. strap your boots up. something's gone wrong how do we solve. it. it's getting cracking and she wants to. be like. I want to talk about what went wrong. and I just can't understand like. sometimes we're like chocolate cheese.

I'm just like. you want to sit there for an hour. telling me. how you feel how you feel and I don't. get that and I do have to like I need to. understand that more slowly but surely. like I'm getting there slowly but surely. I will. I'll come a step closer but I'm quite. you know I can be quite cold. as a husband and it doesn't that doesn't. work with her and she's a feisty woman. as well so she's not scared to tell you.

it reminds me of myself and my. relationship but at the same time I know. that that's exactly what I need. because imagine if I was in a. relationship with someone like me. it would be all too one way so it's it's. almost like the other person is a. counterbalance and they're pulling aside. out of me that's actually beneficial for. me and I've seen it's beneficial for me. but I've given it willingly yeah yeah. you know yeah I'm kicking and screaming. okay I'll kick it and scream it she's. gonna be cracking up at this because I.

don't even know whether she understands. that I know yeah yeah and so you know. but I do I get it and I struggle I. struggle with it but it's something that. I like you know on a daily basis I'm. just trying to. to give it more and you're right you're. completely right it's like. it helps me. and everything else that I'm doing kind. of bringing that side of me out do you. have any ideas why where that came from.

I guess in one respect I think about it. in my own context I go I never learn. that no one ever told me that so it's. like alien Behavior but there is a part. of me that at a deep level I feel. uncomfortable with it like there's. something about when my girlfriend wants. to sit down for an hour and talk about. how she's feeling and the situation. we're in and stuff where I kind of get a. bit of an allergic reaction to it for um. and I kind of want to run and I kind of. just want to like what can I do to fix. it now like do you know I mean what can. I.

press by say just to end it to fix it. because something about me feels. uncomfortable sharing my emotions. is it a defense thing in me you know I'm. saying like is it. or did I just not learn how to do it. or is it both I think it's I think. It's a combination of both like I I know. for me I definitely haven't learned. how how to to do that. um I don't know how to.

I'll send it to a friend yesterday I was. like because he was like he was talking. about his wife and stuff and like she. she's working now and he's not working. and her job finishes at like two in the. morning she gets home about three and. then she wants to tell him. about her day whilst they're in bed. and he's like. he doesn't want to hear it because it. makes him feel like.

he wants to go and beat up her boss. because you know the stuff that she's. telling him is like so he gets angry. about it and it's like starts to hold. resentments or whatever. but he keeps his mouth shut and I said. I can't do that. because what happens with me is I. I cannot just listen. you know I mean I've worked that out now. like I. it burns me to keep my mouth shut. because. I want to solve it for you.

you're a fixer yeah I'm I'm a fixer I. feel like. that's what I need to do there's no. world. where I feel like you're telling me. something just for me to listen to it. like that's so crazy to me so I feel. like when you're telling me something. it's like all right so you want me to. you know you could be just saying I walk. down the street I fell over or whatever. and. you know that happened like last week or. whatever I'm like so should we book an.

appointment do you need to should we. x-ray or like I need to do something and. I think the the key to. you know but that's my mum was has been. like that you know my mum was. shut up. how are you going to fix it uh so you. leave be quiet what you know what I mean. what's your next steps how are you going. to make this what you want to go there. write me a business plan. you know that's what I went through so.

my life communication was for the. precursor to take some action yeah it. wasn't as a way to connect yeah it went. but let's sit down and just talk about. each other's days I was like. God that must be difficult for in terms. of like if I'm Danny your partner. she comes from that background she must. have taken her a lot of work to. understand you that it's not that you. don't love her. it's none of that because that's how. that must feel that coldness.

um shall I be honest with you please. she's it feels like that to her now. yeah I I don't think she's. understands yeah I mean I'm I'm hoping. somewhere deep down she does because. she still. working with me have you told her though. have you told her this because I feel. like you probably find it easier to talk. to me than about the sort of person that. I am yeah all of the stuff you said like. you said today. yeah I mean we've done a lot of we do a.

lot of work on it we're in counseling. you know we're in counseling. um every weekend. that we discuss it you know we talk. about it I don't think I think the issue. has been up until that point being in a. room where someone's slightly mediating. and helping to pull things out of you I. haven't felt comfortable enough to be. honest with her you know personally. um. but I think that's happening more now. and there's ways you know we're learning. ways to kind of.

talk about issues that we have with each. other and you're a dad now so you've got. kids so you must think about how that. generational cycle you talked about with. your father then you is then gonna play. out in the Next Generation 100 yeah I. mean you know I carry a lot of fear for. that because. it hasn't gone great with all of my. children you know I don't have the. greatest relationship with all of my. kids especially my older ones.

um you had you had those when you were. 17 those kids at 17 18 years old yeah. um you went to jail at 19 years old so. you were absent for much of that period. yeah a lot of the first bits of their. life and then when I wasn't I was out. you know I was touring I was me doing. music and then I was acting and then. and then uh I mean if I'm honest with. you like the other other times like I. didn't I didn't care enough I didn't.

you know I cared about them I loved my. children but. I didn't want. their. the adult responsibilities that came. with it and I didn't want to sacrifice. you know what I needed to do. um in order to give to them so for a. long period of time I was like. I was not I was not there in the way. that I should be and I know that I felt. I pay I'm slightly paying the price for.

that now what is the price for them. is. I feel like there's a slight distance. between me and my older kids you know. there's a lack of trust. there. um. in feeling sometimes like. you know why didn't they come to me yeah. about that. yeah yeah you know yeah as for me to. that's a dad thing to it's a dad. conversations I have.

um and as well I think I passed on my. my distant kind of. ways to them so. you know as much as like. when we're together we have an amazing. time and whatever but they don't call me. that much. you know. um I think it's the same with me and my. dad um I think uh we never really had a. close relationship. I think he probably had the same with.

his father and I have the same with him. and my fear is how that translates. downwards to the Next Generation. Um but me and my father I wouldn't say. we're like he knows what's going on in. my life other than him listening to this. um there isn't like the phone call to. update him or anything so. I can relate. we've got an exciting new sponsor on. this podcast and I couldn't be more. excited to announce that we're now. working with Shopify and if there's one. tool that I use pretty much every single. day in my businesses that is certainly.

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team have absolutely loved using which. is not always the case with technology. we couldn't have launched those. conversation cards without it and if you. guys haven't tried Shopify out for. yourself then I highly suggest you do. head to shopify.com Bartlett to take. your business to the next level today. and let me know how you get on that. shopify.com Bartlett let me know how you. get on thank you. top boy. yeah. crazy. it's crazy how that all played out. yeah yeah it's um.

it's been an amazing journey you know. um. never never thought it would actually. when we're shooting the first season. I remember Kane looking at me and going. are they gonna put this. are they gonna put this on TV. because the subject matter you know some. of the things we was in the process it. was in we're shooting that scene where. we cut off um sway's finger in the.

market in summer house and we was. literally looking at each other like a. channel four when I put this on TV. because we've never seen anything. on TV like it at the time but. you know cut from that to to where we. are today one of the biggest shows on. Netflix one of our biggest kind of. exports from the UK globally. and um. and you know people walking down the. street and people just.

just hearing the Shane from every. angle of London. um it's crazy you know it changed my. life. changed my life. in hindsight you see what how big of an. opportunity it was but when someone. approached you with that. and that you saw the script and you saw. the role you'd be playing. in it you must not have had an idea that. it was gonna how did you think I didn't. do you know do you want to know why I. did it right because. because like literally months before I'd.

said to my agent I said look. sick of just being a bad boy or just. like I can't keep on playing these same. roles like. so all I'm getting is after I've done. bullet boy I was just getting the same. scripts over and over again. you've been typecasting Typecast yeah. and I was like I'm not you know I've. done a bit of research I'd watched like. videos of other actors like black. American actors had been in the same. position and other people and I just.

said look I have to be willing not to. work but I wanna be seen for other roles. like I want to be um and she she made me. know she was like look you may not get. any work for a while that means like no. money no this and that and I was like. so be it so that kind of that situation. came about but then the top boy script. came I remember not too long after. having that conversation. and for the first time for me reading.

that script I was like wow. it felt like. like Good Fellas Scarface like all of. those shows those films that I've grown. up on that were very violent don't get. me wrong but behind it all there was. some structure and hierarchy it was the. first time that I'd seen black. organized crime not looking like a bunch.

of. crazy. kids with hoodies just doing crazy. and not having no. you know with no sense it was like I. read characters that were human. that I finally was like I saw the people. behind the hood. I understood why they was doing what. they was doing or what their motivation. was for whether I agree to agreed with. it or not. um and I saw a character in The Shane. that was like aspired. for greater like he wanted.

he wanted to change the face of the game. you know his initial intention was that. I can do this I'm gonna be the best at. it right but along the way I'm not gonna. hurt people. and I'm gonna feed everyone you know and. he wasn't like you know that. entrepreneurial kind of. it was like there within the script and. within the character and that was like. it that turned me so like literally. months after going I ain't doing no more. of these roles or whatever that script.

coming I was like yeah I'm doing this. one though. um and that's what made me that's what. made me do it and there was no. hesitation. once I've read it no once I read I never. read any anything like it and you gotta. imagine I was reading loads of like when. I say everything I read was about. a black boy from inner city London that. was a drug dealer or was stabbing. someone or was shooting someone or. whatever is like loads of different like. iterations of the same character right. and when I read that.

just stood out for me it was something. different I knew that there was. something different about it but I had. no idea that it would cut through the. way it did. Channel 4 just. didn't do a third series. all right they stopped um. at two series why was that I couldn't. figure I couldn't figure that out from. rummaging and reading. yeah I mean you're not the only one who. can't figure it out I mean I I think. over the years because I've been asked. that so much right.

I've. learned or created scenarios that could. have happened oh okay right that I so I. don't know but. um. I do think there was a change of God. around the time that it was. the the third season should have been. commissioned yeah and I feel like when. that happens. um. ideas need to change in order for the.

new person to feel like they're not. living off the coattails of what the. last person created that was successful. and usually it's the most successful. thing. that gets the ax then because there's. nothing that you know I can't take the. credit for this success. um so I feel like that might have been a. reason why or. maybe there just wasn't the. the space there at the time for them to. take it where it needed to go to the.

next level but either way like we. discussed before. so good that it happened that way right. and it had that it's space to just not. be around and for people to want it back. for so many years before we got into the. new situation why did it come back in. your view. um. I think it timing wise when it was on. channel 4 it landed at such a pivotal. time just in London and for culture.

and. you know coincided with. like your you know the real kind of. social media kind of push and all of. that stuff so. I think it was kind of cemented in. people's minds and I think it was like. the first of its kind really to you know. to do what it did so I think that that. having that fan base that key kind of. Niche sort of fan base cult fan base.

kept it alive and then I think it. translated as well didn't it really. interestingly because a lot of the the. work at that time that was. one on the surface might think was. similar those stories of you know like. um of London and young black men and and. crime and all of that stuff they didn't. translate well globally. um they didn't cross over to like. different audiences and in the same way. that for some reason top boy just. crossed over and maybe it's because of.

that complexity and that how thought. through the the plots and storylines and. characters are and it wasn't just. surface level like yeah a lot of. the other stuff was like stereotypical. surface level yeah it was it was there. were humans on the page yeah what. happened you walk away from the that you. root for these characters no matter what. they're doing like and that's because. they're 3D so you understand kind of. what's going on in their heads I think. we from the beginning we've always.

Incorporated. um. what's going on outside of. that world like you know like the you. know I think in like season one on. channel four it was like Mental Health. you know there's a lot of other issues. that we were throwing in there like. um. you know with the little kid gem Soul. just kind of his family structure and. neglect from his parents and stuff like. that there was other things that kind of.

we we talked about. um that you just didn't get in the other. shows and then we had I mean a big big a. big part of this puzzle was Yan. and demands. um. because he's a filmmaker right he's a. very cinematic. well-versed kind of filmmaker. um that knows how to get brilliant. performances out of people.

um and remember. you know maybe nine percent of our cost. in that first season had never acted. before it's crazy so you needed someone. at the helm driving that. that had a clear understanding of how to. get great performances out of people. that hadn't had that much experience and. also shoot a beautiful TV show what do. you have to do to get the best. performance out of yourself do you have. any rituals or anything when you know. you're you're going on set is there.

anything that you do to make to embody. the character. and to also just like get yourself in. the right frame of mind I have I have no. set of rules but. um I'm open to. being willing to do what it takes for. any given it's different every time you. know I've had characters where I've gone. into to play that I'm like I don't even. know if I can do this so I'm scared.

so I would do everything like I'm not. eating. um. uh a mover don't speak to people that I. love like you know this was for a role. where I played like um an alcoholic like. crack addicted. like character. I stopped eating food you know I needed. to lose the weight I needed to feel. homeless so I kind of put myself in a. situation where I left my household and.

I slept on a mattress in a one bedroom. kind of apartment thing and. like really pushed myself to the limits. because sometimes I like. I don't know how else I'm gonna do. something like just being able to act. isn't enough like I I need to feel it. like I need to you know and then there's. other times where I'm like actually I. don't need to do that much like I know. this. person like quite well. you know I need to be well versed on on.

who that character is what their. backstory is so I can be free like when. I'm in the moment but. you know I I'm just I'm not one of these. guys that have like a set of rules and a. lot of the time I believe. less is more. you know I don't want to be over. prepared because then I feel like. there's no vulnerability you know.

so it gets picked up by Netflix yeah and. it becomes a mega mega show one of their. their biggest shows of all time. um life changes for you hugely you go on. this journey for another two seasons on. Netflix and then you have one final. season on its way. how do you feel about that. it's a bittersweet. what's the bitter and what's this way. um.

it's bitter that. some of the people on that show. that I've worked with the whole time. I've been doing it a lot of my family. you know. um. and actually I know. we've discussed this the type of person. that I am. I'm not going to see them that much. after right. it was our reason for.

connection. um. and so what happens in this world you. move on you make other families you. develop other relationships so. I worry about like losing those. connections a bit. um you look sad as you say it I can see. the emotion in your face yeah it's. that's a bit of a thing for me it's like. remember you spend more time with these. people than you do with your actual. family you know you invest so much into.

them and. so it's tough I mean and and I mean if. I'm honest with you the last. film in the last season. brought me and Kane probably even closer. than we've ever been kind of doing that. show because. we don't have the greatest time you know. fighting for what we we believed in. um and making it the best show that we. could make it be you know the best last.

season for the fans like people don't. understand like we go hard. for that show we go hard to make sure. the scripts are right we go hard to make. sure other characters are being. represented in the way they should be. and storylines make sense on whatever. and. the truth is we faced a lot of. resistance this time around you know we. wasn't given the creative. input all the time that we desired and. this is like a common thing you know.

this happens behind the scenes so this. is not me being a. in a grass or anything it's just like. it's the reality and sometimes you know. when there's seven execs eight execs not. everyone agrees and you've got a you. know you have to it's business you've. been there right. yeah so it was it was tough we went for. a tough experience we haven't been. through before. and that brought us closer together so. it's even harder knowing that this is. the last time because we developed. another level to our relationship where. I was like ah like as businessmen like.

routine we're a team as well you know. what I mean. um. you know but the sweet thing about it if. you want to make you know end on a. positive is that. I've got my life back. you know it's I mean. to a certain extent the Shane is a very. popular character. um but when I say life back meaning I. can pursue other avenues. um you know.

contractually I was tied down to that. show for for a long time you know that's. how it works and it'd be nice to to see. what else. is out there what else I can do where I. can take my career um. you scared a little bit I was just gonna. say that yeah so it's also scary because. that was um. is to get that stability in. in the acting game is very rare you know. usually if you want that sort of.

stability with a show or whatever then. you have to you have to go and do a soap. hmm you know. um don't really get it from like drama. like that. um so. yeah it's been nice it's been good for. the family it's been good for me to. focus on. just being an artist. and enjoying what I do rather than. worrying about. mortgages and you know other stuff but.

um. but yeah been a brilliant time did you. win the fight when I say the fight. you're in um. YouTuber fighting to have the show be. the way you want it to be. are you happy with how it's ended up. this final season. yeah. yeah I mean look. I wouldn't say necessarily that we won. um but I think the process of pushing. back. and fighting for what you're believing.

always. without doing that I don't think we. would have got to where we got to I. think that you the push and pull that. happens within that process is what. makes the show. as good as it is you'll never be able to. see the impact it's had on young. people's lives all around the world and. perceptions shifting and all of these. things but. if you were to try and Define that what.

is the impact you think the show has had. on culture on the world exactly that I. think. um. if I can Define it it will be. I had him I had a I had a meeting today. um. with like a Nigerian. um. a ligerian man that owns like a record. label a very famous record label right. and and production company.

um and we sat down today and we was. talking and he was like. thank you. because it's made his job. a lot easier you know I had the same. conversation with Giggs who spends a lot. of time in the states and he was like. I don't have to explain myself anymore. when I go out there like around the. world they now because of the show they. kind of know where I come from you know.

so. when it comes to marketing or whatever. you don't mean like announcing yourself. when you go somewhere into a new. territory or whatever. it's like there is an association for. them to to have and I think that's what. the show has done it's kind of taken us. from. cups of tea and biscuits and period. drama and maybe not in hill or whatever. you know stuff like that to. the rest of the world kind of.

understanding that you know and there's. another side to what we we have and I. think. as a foundation as a way of opening the. door into the international market. accepting what we export. I think is really good I think now from. here we should push on into. telling black. stories. um. that don't necessarily have to be from. the same world as top boy you know they.

should be black detectives there should. be black superheroes they should be. black you know we can the boundaries are. you know they're endless but I think. that it's open it's really opened the. door internationally for like people. trusting in in what we give them. um we have a closing tradition on this. podcast where the last guest leaves a. question in my diary for the next guest. not knowing who they're gonna leave it. for sick. the question in the diary left for you. is you've got one phone call left. to your children.

what do you say to them. oh. [Music]. um. probably. [Laughter]. what I always say to my kids when I. leave the house don't eat my chicken. wings. [Laughter].

no I know on a real note it would be. it's I know it's cliche but it would be. that I love you you know and I think. that's. I didn't tell my dad that before he left. and. yeah we didn't you know we didn't have. those conversations and he didn't tell. me. that not in not using those words.

and um. I'm assuming that this last conversation. would probably be the last time that I. see them so. I'd want them to know that. um. yeah. Yeah Ashley yes sir I can't wait I can't. wait for to see this last season. um I share that excitement with. everybody else that's listening right. now and thank you for creating a piece. of art over the years and fighting for. that piece of art with um to hope to. keep its integrity and to keep the.

resonance that it's had with everybody. that's consumed it. um even when it's easier not to and I. can I understanding you I understand why. that fight was so important for you and. I'm exceptionally excited because of. your experiences and because of that. um that take on your art form that. you've developed over the last two three. decades. to watch your at your directing career. continue to play out I know you're. working on some incredible things at the. moment I know you've been working very. very hard on those things. um that's a conversation for another.

time. but if it's anything like a lot of the. art you've created in your life and it. has that perspective that integrity and. that personality I think it's going to. have equal impact on the world that top. boy and all of the other projects you've. been involved in over the last two and a. half decades have had on people that is. a really really special thing and as I. say I'm I'm I couldn't it couldn't have. happened to a to a more deserving. individual in my opinion I I think it's. weird to have this feeling that I'm so. happy this you've had this in your life. and I'm so excited to see what plays out. for you I know it's going to be.

something special because although you. talk about Talent I'm not quite. convinced that it's just. a a god-given talent alone I think. there's a ton of hard work dedication. perfectionism love craft dedication. kindness people skills I think there's a. lot of perspective I think there's a lot. of hardship there's a lot of rebounding. there's a lot of rejection that you've. had to overcome to get here um and. that's a very um a very admirable thing. that we can all be inspired by and that. we are so thank you Ashley thank you for. taking the time and thank you for your.

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