Anti-Aging Expert: Missing This Vitamin Is Like Smoking! The Truth About Creatine! - Rhonda Patrick

Why do people not know that vitamin D. deficiency can increase dementia risk by. 80%. Why do people not know that having. a lack of this mineral is affecting. their long-term risk of cancer? Why do. people not know that having a low. omega-3 index is as bad for you in terms. of mortality as smoking? And as a. scientist, I've seen firsthand that 70%. of the way you're aging is actually due. to your lifestyle. And all these things. are so easy to do. So for example, as we. age, certain areas of the brain which is. involved in learning and memory starts. to shrink by about 1 to 2% per year. The.

good news is studies show that people. being part of an exercise protocol, not. only did they not have their hippocampus. shrink, it actually grew by 1 to 2%. And. there's more. There are other things. that don't even require as much effort. as exercise, like supplements. And it's. been shown study after study that if you. take someone and you sleep deprive them. for 21 hours and give them 25 to 30. grams of creatine, not only does it. negate the cognitive deficits of sleep. deprivation, it makes people function. better than if they were well rested.

And then there's magnesium. There have. been studies showing that people with. the highest magnesium levels have a 40%. lower all-c cause mortality. And over. 300 different enzymes in your body need. it to help with short-term survival. And. yet 50% of the population in the United. States does not have adequate levels of. magnesium. And there's still more. There's saunas, red light therapy, ketogenic diets, blueberries, electrolytes. We can talk about all of. them. >> Please. >> Okay. So, I found when you go into this. sauna, something happens. That's. incredible. So,

I see messages all the time in the. comments section that some of you didn't. realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you. could do me a favor and double check if. you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing. that anybody that watches this show. frequently can do to help us here to. keep everything going in this show in. the trajectory it's on. So, please do. double check if you've subscribed and uh. thank you so much because in a strange. way you are you're part of our history. and you're on this journey with us and I. appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank. you.

>> Dr. Ronda Patrick, you strike me as a. fairly obsessed person. What is it you're obsessed about and why. are you obsessed about it? Because I can. see from speaking to you previously how. passionate you are about the subjects. we're going to talk to about today. And. so I was I was um I was wondering what. it is about these subjects that is. driving you and what what you're trying. to accomplish. >> I've learned through my experience. So I.

have a PhD in biomedical science. I've. done research on aging, on cancer, on. metabolism, nutrition, neuroscience, a. lot of different fields, very. cross-disciplinary. And I've realized over, you know, the. decades of doing research that there are. many different small changes that can be. made that have a really big impact on. our health, what's called our health. span. So, this is essentially being. disease-free uh throughout our life, being healthy, feeling good. And I'm.

sort of obsessed with trying to optimize. that and find a protocol to optimize it. and then share that information with the. world. And it's funny because, you know, we live in a time now where we've got. access to so much information, overwhelming amount of information. But. the reality is is that simple important. tools that people can do in their life. right now to drastically improve the way. they age are still not known to the. general population. And so my mission is.

to get that knowledge to people so that. they can make these simple changes and. live healthier and feel better. >> And what will be the impact on their. lives if they understand that. information and start to implement their. that information on a real sort of. specific practical. in a real specific practical sense. >> Well, there are things that people are. deficient in, for example, that they. could simply take a supplement. Vitamin. D is a is a good example that could. affect their disease risk, their.

dementia risk. I mean, so you're talking. about quality of life improvement. right now and also later. So, it affects. mood, it affects depression, and it. affects your neurodeenerative disease. risk risk like dementia and Alzheimer's. disease. So there are lowhanging fruits, things that are simple that you can just. basically fill these gaps. I mean there. are things that are also a little more. effortful and this is where exercise. comes in where you put in this effort. and it just if you could pill up what. exercise does in a pill, I mean it would.

be be the biggest blockbuster miracle. drug out there. I mean it blow ozic out. of the water. It'd be I mean just no. comparison. So, um I think I think that. you know again that it's it's these. little things that you can do that is. going to help with depression, help with. mood right now, make you feel better. right now, give you more energy, help. you be more focused, help you be more. motivated, but also affect your. long-term disease risk so that you know. when you're older in life, you're not. demented. And that affects you, it.

affects your family. So I think I think. it's it's just an important it's so. important because there are easy things. that can be done that people just don't. know about. >> Is there a psychological element to this. where we kind of see aging as an. inevitability so we don't fight it. because we only seem to interfere with. and fight and are motivated by things in. life there where we feel like we've got. an element of control and we see we see. everybody get old and we see everybody. start to you know lean over a little bit. and struggle to walk and get a little.

bit more frail. So I think because we've. observed that so much over the last. couple of decades. I'm 30 years just. over 30 years old. I assume that will. happen to me. So I've seen my dad, you. know, get older, get a little bit more. large, lose his lean muscle. So I think, well, I'm like my dad. I've got the some. of the same genetics. That's inevitable. for me. >> So genetics does play a role in the way. you age, but it's a small role. In fact, 70% or more of the way you're aging is.

actually due to your lifestyle. Let's. just imagine two 70ish year old men, okay? John and Rob. And John, you know, he's razor sharp. He can carry groceries. to his car. He doesn't get out of. breath. You know, I mean, he's he's. feeling healthy. He's be able to he can. walk efficiently, right? And then. there's Rob. And Rob is. forgetting his words. You know, he's not.

cognitively sharp. He's out of breath. just from walking to his car. He has a. really hard time carrying groceries. Genetics only plays a small role in in. those two different outcomes for those. two men. The biggest, I would say, thing. that's dictating the way these two men. age is their lifestyle, with a huge part. of that actually being exercise. Mhm. >> And you know, I know we've all heard it. from our mother or grandmother, great-grandmother. You know, exercise is. is good for you. If you eat healthy and. you exercise, you're going to you're.

going to be healthier. And that's like a. general statement, but the reality is it. is so true that exercise affects. everything, you know, down to the. molecular level in terms of like the way. you're aging. So, um, no, it's not just. dictated by genetics and it's not. inevitable and there are things that you. can do to dramatically age better. >> So, let's play a little a little game. here. So, imagine that I listened to. your advice and the things that you know.

about health, longevity, aging, um, and. I followed all of them, which is very. hard to do because, you know, implementation is is not the same thing. as knowledge. So, imagine that's person. A, that's Steve A, and then there's. Steve B. I do the exact opposite. Based. on what you know about the science and. about outcomes and expected outcomes, how would Steve A that followed your. advice. live his uh live his life as he ages? And how would Steve's B, how would his. outcomes be as he ages? Like what would.

you if you had to obviously this is like. super you're forecasting here and it's. hypothetical, but what do you think the. variance in these two people's lives. would be? Well, if you're talking about. the extreme ends, like if Steve B was. like eating sugar and smoking and. drinking and just obese and sedentary, everything that you don't want to, >> which is like a lot of the population. >> I mean, then you're talking like a. 14-year difference in life expectancy, which is pretty big. But not just life. expectancy,

the way your your independence, right, your your mind, so you'd be forgetful. I. mean, it would just be it would it would. be a terrible quality of life, right? So, it's not only are you going to die. earlier, you're not you're just not. going to live a good quality of life. So, so Steve A might be into his 90s and. out surfing, you know, because you're. you've exercised, you've you've given. your body like the right nutrients that. it needs, you've gotten good sleep,

you're not overweight, you're not eating. a lot of refined sugar, all these things. that sort of accelerate the aging. process. And we can talk about different. components of this and how they do. affect the way we age and our disease. risk, but I mean there's there's studies. that show even like a 14-year difference. in life expectancy for like someone. who's morbidly obese versus lean. >> So Steve A could be out surfing at 90. and Steve B would be potentially dying. at 75, but also his quality of life.

would his health span would diminish. probably in his 40s and 50s, >> right? So it's really it's a 14year reduction. in lifespan but potentially a 30 40 year. reduction in health span. >> in quality of life and health span being. able to be functionally independent. being able to be cognitively sharp feel. good right and your mood I mean all. these things are affected. >> you must be sitting on some some crazy. ideas because as a biomedical science. you can kind of see as a biomedical. scientist you can see some of the.

research and technology that's coming. down the pipe so I'm wondering Before we. get into the the conversation, are there. any big ideas about the future of aging. and longevity that are in your mind that. you think about that are actually really. important to know because as Brian. Johnson has often said to me, you want to live to to see these. breakthroughs. >> Yes. Yes. I am excited about some gene. therapies and being able to sort of.

reprogram our our cells to be more. youthful. So, you know, this is this is. something that was pioneered back in. 2006 by Shinya Yamanaka from Japan and. he actually won the Nobel Prize. Why his. research was so important for the field. of aging wasn't really known at that. time. What he had shown is that you. could take a cell that's old and it. could be a any cell. It could be from an. 85year-old person with Parkinson's.

disease, for example, and you get it. You know, we're constantly getting skin. cells and sloing them off every day. You. can take one of those cells and add four. different proteins to them. They're. called transcription factors. Essentially, all that means is they're. kind of like master orchestrators of. many different genes in your body and. how genes are activated and turned on. and doing what they're supposed to or. they're turned off and quiet for the. time that they're supposed to be quiet. And it's you you add those four proteins.

and you can take that 85year-old cell. skin cell from a person with Parkinson. disease and you can make it into what's. called an embryionic stem cell. And it. does that by sort of wiping out the. what's called epiggenome. So people are. familiar with their DNA, right? Well, the epiggenome is something that sort of. sits on top of your DNA and it. regulates, you know, how your genes are. being expressed or turned on and off, right? And it sort of brings it back, reprograms it to this youthful state.

where it becomes an embryionic stem. cell. And then that embryionic stem cell. can then form any type of cell in the. body. you can form a heart cell or a. liver cell or a brain cell or a cell. from your eye and so this is called. induced pur potent stem cells and this. was a breakthrough at the time because. it's it was so import it's important for. cell regenerative therapies okay let's. say someone does have Parkinson's. disease and you want you know. Parkinson's disease people are losing. dopamineergic neurons and their. substantia so these are dopamine.

producing neurons and dopamine is. important for motivation and it plays a. role in our, you know, cognitive. function, but it's also important for. movement, right? So, um, people with. Parkinson's disease are losing those at. a rapid rate and they lose control of. their motor capabilities. And so, you. want to be able to take an old skin cell. from someone, reprogram it to become a. dopamine neuron and then inject it into. that person, right? It's their own cell, so they're not going to reject it, right? So, that was like the big thought.

at the time. Fast forward, you know, a. decade or so and a a whole handful of. brilliant aging scientists have. discovered that instead of taking these. old cells and putting these four. proteins on it to become this sort of. stem cell, they can pulse it. Just a. quick little pulse. >> What is a pulse? Like an electronic. shock? >> No, what I mean is it's just not. incubated for as long of a time period. So, it's a shorter time interval that.

you're putting these four different. transcription factors on top of the cell. that reprogram it, right? And the reason. for the shorter time is that you don't. want it to lose its cellular identity. So, let's say it was a skin cell. You. want it to stay a skin cell, not become. an embryionic stem cell, but you want it. to be a skin cell from a one-year-old, not an 85y old. >> So, the way to do that is what's called. partial reprogramming. And so they. basically researchers have found that.

you can just sort of what I call pulse. It's partial reprogramming. You're kind. of putting it on for like a shorter. period of time and then that cell keeps. its identity but it's youthful. It wipes. out all the damage, everything that's. accumulated over those those 85 years. And this has been shown in animal. studies in rodents that if you if you. add these four different transcription. factors and you give them to mice, you. can rejuvenate many of the different. organs. So essentially turning back the. aging clock in different organs in these.

mice. Now this obviously has to be. translated to humans, but I think it's. super exciting and I do think it's the. future in terms of solving aging and. rejuvenation, rejuvenating our organs. And so it's something that I'm pretty. excited about and following closely. >> And are they then living longer? >> Some of these studies were done in. animals that are what's called. accelerated aging. So yes, they were. living longer in that background of.

accelerated aging. Um the question is, you know, can they live longer if it's. just a normal mouse that's not like an. accelerated aging model? And and these. are things that are all being done right. now. These sorts of studies are in. progress. Where do you think is the most important. place for us to start this conversation. based on everything you know and maybe. some of the presumably there's some like. foundational stuff, right? >> I do. I think the important place to. start would be we're talking about we.

were talking about aging as a disease. and I think being sedentary is a disease. and I think that's a good place to. start. What I mean by being sedentary is. not physically active. someone who. doesn't engage in any type of physical. activity. >> And what is the spectrum there of, you. know, someone who doesn't move at all. for, you know, 24 hours a day versus. you've got obviously someone that's. constantly running marathons and doing. crazy stuff, but where is where are most. of us on that scale? And are we moving.

enough? >> Most of us are not moving on that. enough. And most of us are, if you're. talking about globally, we're on that. sedentary scale where we're just not. physically active. we sit at our. computer or our desk or our cubicle, you. know, all day and we're not we're not. actually moving around a lot. Um, and I. say I say sedentaryism. is a disease because it's actually been. shown to. increase the risk of early mortality.

even more than diseases that we know of. like type two diabetes, cardiovascular. disease, or even terrible habits like. smoking. So being sedentary actually. could predict early mortality even more. than those diseases. But it it it's. let's take a step back. It's even bigger. than that. There there's this amazing. study. It's called the Dallas bed rest. study. And the study started back in the. 1960s. And this is done by probably the. world's most talented cardiovascular.

exercise physiologists. And so Ben Saltine, uh, Jerry Mitchell. were involved in this early study in the. 1960s. And what they did was they took. five men, they were college students and. they put them on bed rest. And this is. like 3 weeks of legitimate bed rest. We're talking they couldn't get up to go. to the bathroom, so they had catheter in. them. They did not move for three week. The researchers wanted to find out what. happens to your cardiovascular system if. you are not moving around for three.

weeks. And now if you think about it, you know, there's a lot of people that. are undergoing surgery or they have some. sort of bad illness, influenza or. something that keeps them bedridden for. it's not unusual to be 3 weeks to be. honest. So it's not completely. irrelevant. And what was found is after that 3. weeks, you know, their cardiovascular. system was just tanked. And one of the. major they they were probably the some. of the most wellstied men at the time.

And um one of the biggest factors that. was measured was their cardiorespiratory. fitness. This is often called V2 max. And essentially it's the maximum amount. of oxygen that you can breathe in and. your lungs then breathe that oxygen to. your muscles. And it's measured during. maximal exercise. You're putting in a. maximum effort and that's called your. cardiorespiratory fitness. And we can. talk a little bit more about that. But. their cardiorespir respiratory fitness. tank. And now I mentioned this was in. the 1960s. About 30 years later, and.

this is where uh Ben Lavine came into. the study. He's at the UT Southwestern. in Dallas. He's also very one of the. most famous, you know, cardiovascular. exercise physiologists out there right. now. They found these five men from 30. years earlier and they measured their. cardiorespiratory fitness and a variety. of other parameters that they had. measured at the time. And what they. found was that three weeks of bed rest. was worse on their cardiorespiratory. fitness than 30 years of aging. So.

essentially their cardiorespiratory. fitness was no worse 30 years later than. it was after their 3 weeks of bed rest. which is kind of amazing because you. would think that the 30 years of aging. would be worse on your cardiorespiratory. fitness than the three weeks of bed. rest. And it's the same the same. individuals, >> the same individuals, the same five men. Um, now after the three weeks of bed. rest, you know, back back in the 1960s, they were able to get their.

cardiorespiratory fitness back up again. once they started exercising and moving. around and it took a while. But when you. look at their baseline levels, their. baseline cardiorespiratory fitness and. you compare it to their. cardiorespiratory fitness baseline 30. years later, it wasn't worse than what. happened when they they compared it to. the 3 weeks of bed rest. And you might. go, well, why is that so significant? The. cardiorespiratory fitness dropping. We. know that cardiorespiratory fitness is. one of the best predictors of longevity.

So there are studies that have shown. that people with a high. cardiorespiratory fitness. live five years longer than people with. a low cardiorespiratory fitness. That's, you know, pretty big difference. They're. they're basically 80% less likely to die. of many different causes of of death. So. cardiovascular disease, cancer, respiratory disease, things like that. than people with a low cardiorespiratory. fitness. So you're really getting, you. know, a five-year increased life.

expectancy. You're sort of pushing and. delaying those age related diseases like. cardiovascular disease, you know, like. cancer, for example, you're pushing them. down later in life. So you're not you're. not dying from them sooner. And we do. know that really. just going getting anywhere out of that. low cardiorespiratory fitness. So people. with the low cardiorespiratory fitness. are people that are sedentary. And if. you just move anywhere above that, even. if you're going low from low bad to like. low normal, you're gaining about two.

years increase in life expectancy. And. that's not really that hard to do. But. if you think about cardiorespiratory. fitness, like right here, just having. this conversation, actually even just. sitting quietly, it takes about three. milliliters of oxygen per minute per. kilogram body weight to do that. to. carry groceries to your car, it takes. about 11 milliliters of oxygen per. minute per body weight, per kilogram. body weight. >> And so as you're aging, you're kind of.

heading towards this cliff, right? Because your cardiorespiratory fitness. goes down with age. It does. That's what. happens naturally. If you're at the. point where you don't work on your. cardiorespiratory fitness, if you're not. being physically active, and there are. certain exercises that are better at. improving cardiorespiratory fitness than. other others, if you're not trying to. improve it, you're going to be heading. towards that cliff faster. And then. everything becomes a maximal effort. You're out of breath just talking. You're out of breath carrying groceries. to your car. Everything is a maximal.

effort. And you don't want to be there. You don't that that quality of life is. not good. It's not good. Right. And then. on top of that, you're also going to die. sooner. So you're talking about two. things here. You're talking about. decreased health span and decreased. lifespan. >> So yeah, we should be moving more, >> right? And the question is, well, how do. you improve your cardior fitness? Right. Yeah. I mean, >> do you lift weights? Do you go for runs? Do you bike? What is it that is really.

good at improving cardior fitness? And. that's the question that a lot of. exercise physiologists have answered. over the last couple of decades. You. want to do and engage in what's called. vigorous intensity exercise. So this is. the kind of exercise where you're not. able to have a conversation when you're. engaged in it. Right? So so your heart. rate is going up to about 80% your max. heart rate. You're not able to really. talk. And it's I would say you know it's. something that can be done in intervals.

So you can do highintensity interval. training. So you have these intervals. where you're getting your heart rate up, you're doing vigorous exercise, and then. you have recovery periods where you're. kind of resting. You're you're lowering. your heart rate. You're not doing that. max that maximal sort of exercise. And I. say this because. there have been studies, multiple. studies that have shown people that. engage in moderate intensity exercise. So this is the kind of exercise when you. can you're breathy, but you can still. kind of have somewhat of a conversation.

while you're doing it. >> Like the stair master. like the. stairmaster. Yeah, exactly. Um, even. people that are engaging in that type of. exercise for two and a half hours a. week, so this is following the physical. activity guidelines, 40% of those people. can't improve their cardiorespiratory. fitness. And it's like, well, I don't know about. you, but like I don't want it to be a. coin toss in terms of like if I'm doing. that kind of exercise, well, if I have a. 50% chance of not improving my. cardiorespiratory fitness if I'm doing. this. I want the sure thing. And the.

short thing is you take those people and. then you have them engage in. highintensity interval training and. they're able to improve their. cardiorespiratory fitness. And that's. because. you you're putting a stronger stress on. your cardiovascular system. And so the. adaptations are greater. And part of the. adaptations are you're able to bring in. more oxygen, carry it to your muscles, carry it to your your you know other. other tissues better. And so that's your. cardiorespiratory fitness. Uh and so and. so that's that's really I would say um.

the bottom line here is engaging in even. just once or twice a week. And I would I. would say the the most wellressearched. protocol for that would be something. called the Norwegian 4x4. And that is where you're doing a longer. interval. It's a 4-minute interval and. it's best done on either a stationary. bike or maybe a rowing machine. And. you're going as hard as you can and. maintain that intensity for four. minutes. And then you're going to go.

down to light exercise and recover for. four minutes and let your heart rate go. down. And you do that four times. So. it's a four by four. And that is. probably one of the most robust ways to. improve cardiorespiratory fitness. But. there are other ways even doing you know. one minute on one minute off. So you do. one minute as hard as you can go again. for that entire minute. not going all. out, but as hard as you can and maintain. that for the entire minute. And then you. rest a minute and you do that, you know, 10 times. So, it's a 20-minute workout.

>> So, for the several million people that. are listening right now, if you had to. prescribe them all something to do and. it was the minimum they had to do. Tell me what exactly the workout would. look like and how frequent it would be. on a weekly basis. >> I would say the minimum effective dose. would be once a week. Okay. >> And it would probably be. the one minute on, one minute off. If.

you want like the upper end robust. effects of improving cardiorespiratory. fitness, you can still improve it with. something like a Tabata. >> What's a Tabata? >> Where you're doing a 20 second interval. and you're going more all out because. it's shorter time and then you're. recovering for 10 seconds. >> So, it's a 20 second on, 10 second off. You do that eight times. And um if you. repeat that twice, so it's essentially a. 10-minute workout, that's also something. that can improve cardiorespiratory. fitness. But I would say, and I'll tell.

you I'll tell you why. There's the. minimum, right? So the one minute on, one minute off. But I would say the. Norwegian 4x4 is the gold standard. And. that's because it's not only improving. cardiorespiratory fitness. This is probably one of the most. exciting. pieces of evidence I've seen with. respect to, you know, exercise and. aging. And that is that being part of an. exercise protocol was shown to reverse. the structural changes that occur with.

age in the heart by 20 years. So what do I mean by that? I mean, people that were 50 years old that were. sedentary, so they weren't really going. to the gym, they weren't engaging in any. sort of physical activity, but they. weren't, you know, they didn't have. diseases. They didn't have type two. diabetes, they didn't have. cardiovascular disease. I would argue. sedentary, being sedentary is a disease, but putting that aside, they didn't have.

any diseases, right? And they're 50, so. they're midlife. And um this was again this was done by. Ben Lavine out of UT uh Southwest at in. Dallas. He took these you know. 50-year-olds and put them on a pretty. intense exercise routine for two years. or a stretching routine. This was like. the the control. And this type of exercise routine was. progressive. So they started out lighter. and sort of worked their way up, right? Like you don't want to just start with a. Norwegian 4x4 people that never never.

exercise. I mean that's going to be. tough. So it was a progressive sort of. building up to that. But um towards the. ends of about the first six months, these people were exercising about 5 to. six hours a week and that included one. to two sessions of the Norwegian 4x4. And it also included a lot of, you know, they're they're doing moderate to. vigorous intensity cycling or running. and some some strength training as well. And they did this for two years.

their hearts were looked at and so as we. age our hearts shrink and they get. stiffer and that plays a role in causing. cardiovascular disease. I mean that's. the number one killer in the United. States. It also affects. cardiorespiratory fitness right why does. the the heart you know stiffen with time. has a lot to do with actually being. exposed to a lot of glucose when you're. eating a lot of refined sugar and. refined carbohydrates you're having a. lot of glucose around in your system.

This causes a chemical reaction called. glycation. So you get these advanced. glycation end products that sort of. react with your collagen that's lining. your heart and your mocardium and it. causes it to stiffen and so now the. heart can't really respond to stress. well. It's stiff and that plays a role. in like heart attacks for example. So. exercise is one of the best things you. can do to. move glucose out of your vascular system. and get it to your muscles. And so.

that's that's one of the things that it. does and helps with not causing that. stiffening of the heart. And so. essentially these 50-year-olds had. their their heart the structure so it. was bigger and less stiff after two. years of this you know exercise. protocol. It essentially made their. hearts look like 30 year olds. And I. mentioned they were 50 year olds. I. mean, that's amazing. That's incredible. that you can take someone midlife, put. them on a two-year training protocol, and reverse the aging of their heart by.

20 years. >> So, on this Norwegian 4x4, you've convinced me to give it a shot. But specifically, how I how I do that. So, it's it's I do my warmup and then I. do four minutes of hard exercise. I take. a break and the exercise I'm doing in. those four minutes can be any number of. things but I just have to get up to 85. 80% of my exertion levels 80%. difficulty. >> So the way it works is as they mentioned.

it's it's best if you're doing a. cardiovascular type of exercise. So like. >> the assault bike. >> you could do assault bike. Yep. Assault. bike. You can do a rowing machine. You. could do uh stationary cycling machine. as well. >> Could I run? You can, but that is is it's definitely. um it's I think it's better on on doing. like maybe a bike or a salt bike or. something. Um but you can run like what. whatever it is that you like to do and. you are going as hard as you can for. that four minutes and maintain within.

that four minutes. So it's not an allout. or it's far from all out, right? But. you're not really having a conversation. while you're doing it. And then the four. minutes of recovery, you're if you're. running, you kind of go down to walking. If you're on the rowing machine or the. assault bike, you're just going very. slow. You're just really going slow and. you're letting your heart rate come. down. You're letting your muscles kind. of recover, your cardiorespiratory. fitness, you know, kind your your. cardiorespiratory fitness system recover. somewhat. And then after that 4-minute. recovery, you go back to the four.

minutes of like intense again. And. you're doing that four times. It's not. easy, but you know, people can start. out, they don't I mean, even if you. start out with not going super super. hard in those four minutes where you. just maybe you can have a conversation, but you're still going hard harder than. you're used to pushing yourself. And I. think for people that haven't really. engaged in any type of high-intensity. training before, that's a good idea. where you kind of you got you can't just.

start doing it. >> right out the gate. You want to kind of. work your way up that. So doing the four. minutes do just try to put in as much. effort as you can right during those. four minutes and then you do your. recovery and you repeat that four times. but then work your way up as you as you. do it one week, two weeks, you know, a. month later, two months later and really. try then to get to that point where. during those four minutes you're. getting, you know, you're pushing. yourself hard where you're not really. able to have that conversation. >> and physiologically what is going on in.

my body when I get to that 85 90% effort. range and I and I stay there for a. couple of minutes. That doesn't occur. when I'm doing my stair master. >> I mean, so many things are are. happening. I mean, there's a lot of. different, I would say, physiological. responses that are. >> You've got a big smile on your face when. I ask. >> Yes, I do because it's, you know, one of. my favorite things to talk about and it. has to do with when you're when you're. pushing yourself really hard, you need. you need to make energy, right? And the.

way that most of our cells make energy, like our muscles, is by using our. mitochondria, these are tiny organels. inside of our cells that produce energy, but they need oxygen to do it. So that's. where the oxygen comes into play. When. you start to push yourself really hard, you can't get the oxygen to your muscles. quick enough, but you need to make the. energy. And so your body decides to make. energy in the form of ATP without the. mitochondria, and it uses glucose to do. that.

and you're not making as many of those. ATP energy molecules, but you're still. making them and you're making them. quick. And that's what your your body. wants to do. And and so it's using. glucose to do that without the. mitochondria, but as a byproduct, it's making. something called lactate. And this is. what gets me so excited because, you. know, for the longest time, lactate was. thought to be this just metabolic. byproduct of glucose metabolism. you.

know where you're when you're pushing. yourself really hard anorobic it's. called anorobic by the way you're not. you're not only anorobic you're just. some somewhat anorobic you're still use. producing energy with your mitochondria. it's just you're also producing without. the mitochondria it's not like a a sort. of black black and white sort of thing. right it's a little bit gray. >> but the reality is you're producing. something called lactate and for the. longest time it was thought this lactate. oh it's just it's bad because you know. it can form lactic acid and that burns. forms that burn in your muscles. And you.

know, this was, you know, decades ago. And we now know from the work of George. Brooks out of UC Berkeley that lactate. itself isn't causing the burn. And not. only is it not causing the burn, it's. like a miracle molecule that's being. made. This metabolite lactate gets into. your circulation and it gets consumed by. your heart, by your brain, by your. liver, and it's used for energy. It's. very it's it's very much similar to beta.

hydroxybutyrate that ketone body that. you always hear about people talk about. when they're fasting or doing a. ketogenic diet. It's actually very. similar to that. It gets used it gets. transported through the same transporter. and it's used like energy. Very similar. to that. Um but what's more exciting is. that lactate is a way for your muscles. to communicate with other organs like. the brain. And it's called a signaling. molecule. So, it's your muscles are. going, I'm working really hard. This is.

really hard. We have to respond to this. work. We have to adapt. And so, your. body goes, okay, I got to like turn on. all this awesome stuff that I have. because I'm working so hard. I need to. respond to that so that like I'm I'm. good, right? And so, what happens is the. lactate, this has been shown, it gets. consumed a lot by the brain. And in the. brain, it it activates something called. brain drive neurotrphic factor, BDNF. And this is kind of like a miracle grow. for your brain. So essentially, it's.

able to increase the growth of new. neurons, which is amazing. It's called. neurogenesis. It increases the. connections between neurons. So it. improves memory, cognition, and then um. it's involved in what's called. neuroplasticity. So the ability of your. brain to adapt to a changing. environment. This is all from lactate. Um, and it also increases. neurotransmitters like norepinephrine, so focus and attention, serotonin, your. your mood, you're feeling better,

you're, you know, motivated. All these. things are happening because of lactate. And there's been studies in humans. showing that people that are compared. working hard, working out hard, vigorous. exercise versus sort of moderate to. light exercise, they make more lactate. And that lactate, you know, it's been. shown that high levels of lactate are. correlated with improved cognition. scores, uh, improved impulse control. So. serotonin plays a role in impulse. control. So you're able to not just go. on your impulse, right? You're you're.

able to kind of like, which is great if. you want more focus and attention, right? So this is this is all really. exciting stuff because it all comes down. to just it's it's like your muscles are. these little chemical pharmaceutical. factories and the way to make them make. these pharmaceuticals is to work them to. challenge them and that can be done with. an easy highintensity interval training. protocol. A variety of them Norwegian. 4x4 can increase brain drive neurotrphic. factor that's been shown. The one minute. on one minute off protocol also has been. shown to increase that again through the.

lactate. So that's one of the big sort. of I would say differences between. vigorous intensity exercise and more of. that moderate intensity or like low. intensity exercise. And I honestly. think, you know, I think the guidelines, you know, everyone's sort of obsessed. with steps. I need to get my 10,000. steps in, my 10,000 steps. And they have. wear wearable devices, and I think. that's great, but I think we need to. change the 10,000 steps to at least 10. minutes of vigorous intensity exercise.

like you could do 10 minutes of, you. know, any type of exercise that's really. going to get your heart rate up and it's. going to be so much better. So, this is. a really dumb question, but it's the. question that I had in my mind, which is. if lactate is such a miracle. drug, why can't I just drink it? Why can't I. just get get a shot of lactate versus. having to go through vigorous interval. training? It's a great question, Stephen, because um there have been. studies that have been done looking at,

for example, traumatic brain injury. patients. So, people that have undergone. some sort of head trauma and they've. infused sodium lactate through like an. IV. into their, you know, system and the. lactate immediately gets consumed by the. brain and it's been shown to improve. their recovery. So, it's called the. Glasgow score. You may have heard of it, but it's kind of essentially this. battery of tests that's done to sort of. assess how someone's recovering from. traumatic brain injury. And the sodium. lactate does improve that. So there are.

you can find out there, you know, different types of lactate that you can. consume. >> And theoretically, it should help, but. what happens is when you consume the. lactate, >> lactate actually gets used by the gut. So a lot of it's going into the gut. cells before it gets into your. circulation. There's always a trade-off. with these bloody things whenever you. try and trick the system or shortcut the. system by like drinking something. I. feel like there's a trade-off which. people don't talk about a lot.

>> Well, the thing is is that I it is good. for the gut. In fact, a former colleague. of mine, Mark Chanaga, has shown that. lactate is really beneficial for for uh. the gut epithelial cells. In fact, if. you think about it, all these sort of. beneficial probiotic bacteria like. bifido bacterium for example, they're. producing lactic acid and that lactic. acid does get converted into lactate. It's sort of like this physiological. homeostasis where you have uh the. difference of just a hydrogen atom. So.

you're having lactic acid and lactate. sort of in this equilibrium so to speak. But um those those bacteria in your gut. are making lactate essentially. And the. reason it's so good is because it is an. very e easily utilizable source of. energy for the gut cells. So, not to. like go off on a tangent here, yes, there is always a tradeoff, especially. for doing something orally, but when it. comes to exercise, there's so like I mentioned when we. first started talking about exercise, if. you could pill up what exercise does,

I mean, it's so many things, right? It's. not just the lactate. >> Yeah. >> So many different things, so many. different adaptations that occur. I mean. it would be a miracle drug. So there's. you're not just getting the lactate, you're getting the, you know, the. improvement in cardiorespiratory. fitness. You're getting the muscular. response, right? The adaptations to your. muscle. Um you're you're increasing. stress response genes like heat shock. proteins that are important for. preventing neurodeenerative disease. You're making antioxidants because the. inflammation that you're generating. while you're exercising. There's.

hundreds and hundreds of things that are. happening all in concert from exercise. and you just can't you can't pill it up. >> I have another really silly question. which is if lactate and these other. things even like creatine and you know. all these other things are so good for. me why doesn't my body just make more of. it? >> I mean your body does make it. The the. problem is is that you know as we're. aging everything becomes less efficient. everything doesn't do what it used to do.

as well as it did when it was younger. Um, and it and also in the in the case. of creatine, which we can talk about, you know, later if you're interested, then um, you know, your body only makes. so much of it. And. >> why doesn't it make more? >> I don't, you know, >> maybe I'm not giving it the the minerals. or the environment it needs naturally to. make more. >> I don't know. >> You you get it from your food, too. Creatine is found in meat, in poultry, and fish. So, probably that's why your. body doesn't make more of it because it.

knows you're going to be getting it from. your diet as well. >> And so, that is another way to get. creatine. >> Okay. >> Of course, the vegans and the. vegetarians, that's a whole other. ballgame because they aren't eating meat. and so they're really essentially only. relying on what their body can make. >> We'll definitely talk about that later. Um on this point of the brain then if if. I I don't want to be an older person who. can't remember things and stutters over. my words and falls into cognitive.

decline. And I'm I'm 32 now. So I'm I. feel like I'm at a moment in time where. I can really make decisions now that. have a really big impact on my. 90-year-old brain and my ability to. think straight and clearly and remember. things. Are there things that I can be. doing now that will have a profound. impact on my cognitive performance at. 90? >> Yes. And what are those things? >> Absolutely. Well, first of all, just to. kind of wrap up the exercise story. because I think this study is so. profound and in fact it wasn't done in. 32 year olds. It was done in older.

adults. So, we're talking 60 year olds. or a little bit older. And these. individuals were put on a aerobic. exercise training program for one year. that was more of like a 70 to 75% max. heart rate. It wasn't so vigorous, but. it was pretty pretty vigorous for them, right? And um the the basis of this. study was to look at brain aging. As we. age, I mentioned our heart aging, right? It gets stiffer and shrinks with age. Our brain also shrinks with age. It's.

called atrophy. And as we age, especially starting in midlife, so. around the age of 50, your your brain. and certain areas of the brain like the. hippocampus, which is involved in. learning and memory, starts to shrink by. about 1 to 2% per year. >> I don't want that to happen. >> Same. Same. The good news is um in this. study, after a year of this sort of. aerobic exercise training program, they. were doing three times a week about 30. minutes a day. Really not even that. intense. these individuals and then.

there was a control group that was kind. of the stretching they like to use the. stretching as the control group. So that. let's talk about the the control group, the stretching group. They did lose. about 1 to 2% in terms of the size of. their hippocampus, it shrunk one to 2%. after that year, which is what you would. expect normally. However, the group that. was training, not only did they not have. their hippocampus shrink by 1 to 2%, it. actually grew by 1 to 2%. which comes.

down to that neurogenesis, that growth. of new neurons, the brain drive. neurotrphic factor that's able to do. that. You're actually able to grow new. neurons even when you're in the age of. 50, which is amazing. It's incredible. So, that study I love because a couple. of reasons. one, it shows that it's. possible to not only stave off, you. know, some of the components of brain. aging, but to reverse it and increase.

it, right, through exercise. And number. two, I love it because it's never too. late. Like, you can start this, you. know, in your 60s and still have a. benefit, right? you're you're talking. about being in your 30s, but you know, some people watching this show, listening to the show, may already be in. their 50s or 60s, right? So, it's never. too late. >> Um, likewise, you know, we're talking. about being cognitively sharp and not. getting dementia. There's also studies. showing that people like women that were.

brought into the lab, they had their. cardiorespiratory fitness measured, those women with the highest. cardiorespiratory fitness were 80% less. likely to come down with dementia over. the follow-up period of time. So it. again, I think exercise is one of the. big ones when it comes to brain aging. But you asked an important question. and. you say, "What can I be doing now that's. going to affect the way my brain ages, you know, for the subsequent decades of. my life?" And there are other things. that can also be done that don't even.

require as much effort as exercise. Exercise is the gold standard because I. mean, being able to not only, you know, stave off atrophy of the of the brain, but to like regrow some of it is. incredible, right? I mean, that's just. mind-blowing. Have they ever taken. people with dementia, Alzheimer's, and. put them on an exercise program and. monitored the decline of their cognitive. abilities on an exercise program?

>> Yes. I mean, it's it's much harder when. you already have someone who. is in that pathological state because. things just really snowball and. accelerate. And there are some benefits. I mean, >> but it's not it's not prevention is. always the best. Prevention is always. the best. And so, you know, I I think. that if there's any sort of take-home. here, it's that like let's let's try to. do what we can now so that we don't get. to that point. >> before we get into the the the easier.

ways of staving off cognitive decline. Do do we know what causes dementia and. Alzheimer's yet? Do do we have any. ideas? Because we can when they do the. brain imaging, they can kind of see. these plaques on the brain, they say. that. >> I mean there's a lot of different it's. multiffactorial which means there's a. lot of different causes of dementia and. Alzheimer's disease so I would say you. mentioned plaques amaloid beta plaques. what happens is you know that's the. aggregation of a protein in our brain. called amalloid that typically is.

cleared from our brain and um what. happens is this abnormal. you know thing happens where you're not. clearing the amaloid and so it starts to. kind of form these clumps and aggregates. with the amaloid proteins that are not. being cleared. And that essentially is. happening outside of your neurons, but. it's happening where the synapses are. formed between neurons. And so what. happens is it kind of disrupts the. synaptic connection between neurons, which is essentially forming a memory.

And so when you start to disrupt that. connection, you lose not only the the. memories start to go away, but the whole. purpose of the neuron is to kind of I. mean one of the purposes is to to form a. memory. And so you start to like neurons. start to die, right? When they start to. lose their purpose. Amaloid aggregation. is linked to a lot of things. So, for. example, I mentioned it being cleared. when we sleep, particularly when we're. in our deep sleep stage, slowwave sleep.

That is um something happens that's kind. of incredible. It's called activation of. the glimpmphatic system. So, you've. heard of the lymphatic system. Well, the. glimpmphatic system is essentially this. series of like networks and like almost. like these like highways and essentially. roads and stuff all like throughout the. brain where you're squirting this. cerebral spinal fluid throughout the. brain and it's clearing away all the. garbage things like proteins that didn't.

get cleared and it's sort of squirting. them out and clearing them out through. this lymphatic system. that lymphatic. system is activated during sleep and. it's one of the reasons why people that. don't get good sleep over the course of. decades have a higher risk of. Alzheimer's disease is because they're. getting these amaloid plaques built up. in their brains but there's other causes. as well so for example glucose. metabolism is disrupted in the brains of. Alzheimer's disease you need glucose. your neurons need glucose and so you.

know the essentially um your your brain. isn't able to make energy correctly. without the glucose getting into your. brain. And so that's another sort of. metabolic underlying cause of. Alzheimer's disease where you're. essentially I mean it's thought to be. where you're eating a lot of refined. carbohydrates, refined sugars and you're. not exercising and essentially you're. you're disrupting the glucose metabolism. in the brain as well as the whole body. Right? So the brain and body are. connected but um there's also genetic.

causes as well and you know some people. have genes that can increase the risk of. Alzheimer's disease because they're not. able to clear amaloid as well because. they're not able to repair damage as. well. So the the bloodb brain barrier. which is really important for filtering. out toxic things from getting into the. brain. it starts to break down and that's one. of the I would say early early signs of. Alzheimer's disease is that breakdown of. the bloodb brain barrier and that.

happens in people that have a genetic. risk factor called APOE4. You may have. heard of this but this is probably one. of the biggest. genetic risk factors for Alzheimer's. disease. About 25% of the population has. one copy of this gene. That increases. the risk of Alzheimer's disease by. twofold. If you have two copies of it, it increases the risk of Alzheimer's. disease by tenfold. >> So twofold being 200%. >> Twofold being twice twice as much. Yeah. 200%. And 10fold being a,000%. Right.

You're you're you're basically I mean. it's it's pretty bad. And it's not like. a. it's not your destiny to get the. Alzheimer's disease if you have those. genes. You can do things in your. lifestyle that can sort of turn the. table. So you're not you're not. necessarily going to be getting that. that Alzheimer's disease and a lot of. different lifestyle factors like getting. good sleep, like exercising, avoiding. alcohol, avoiding smoking, not being. overweight and obese. Like those affect. your Alzheimer's disease risk.

More importantly, if you have one of. those genes, then you really have to be. cognizant of those things because if you. have one of those, you know, ApoE4. genes, then then essentially your. lifestyle matters even more than people. that don't. >> And you can do a test to figure out if. you have those genes. >> Yes. Yes. There's a a variety of genetic. testing services that can be done. pretty much all the ones that are out. there on on the market, you know, ancestry DNA. I mean, depending on where. you live and what there's so many out. there right now that that will test for. that.

>> Mortified if I found out I had two of. those genes. >> Two of them is less common. When I. mentioned the 25% of the population. having it, it's usually one alil. Alcohol essentially can really increase. the risk of Alzheimer's disease if you. have one of those genes. And I think. that there's really no safe amount of. alcohol that can be consumed for people. that have APOE4. if you're concerned. about dementia and Alzheimer's disease. The other thing is contact sports and. traumatic brain injury. people that have. any of the, you know, any one or two of. the APOE4 genes, if they have that, then.

if they get a TBI, like if they're. playing American football or they're. playing soccer or MMA or boxing, whatever, >> then you talk about like going up to a. 10-fold risk for Alzheimer's disease. when you get like an injury because. people with those genes don't repair. damage as well. >> So, it affects their their brain's. ability to repair damage. And so that's. also really important to consider. >> So moving back then to this the simple. things that we can do to improve our.

cognitive performance as we age, the. things that are simpler than doing the. vigorous hit training. >> There's actually quite a few. And first. and foremost, the one I love the most is. a simple multivitamin. And the reason I love this is because. I don't know it was about 10 years ago. there was a a huge study that was. published and it was published in the. Annals of Internal Medicine and it was. called Enough is Enough. Multivitamins. are not only useless, they're harmful. and it was essentially looking at a.

variety of studies and arguing that. multivitamins are expensive urine. You're just not really doing anything. And in fact, if you take a multivitamin, you might even be increasing the risk of. disease. That study was terrible. And I 10 years. ago went and just broke it down and, you. know, pulled it apart piece by piece. But here we are 10 years later. Three. large clinical trials have been done. And these are randomized control trials.

where older adults were given either a. multivitamin and this was just your. standard run-of-the-mill multivitamin. Centrum silver or they were given a. placebo and they were given this for a. couple of years. And what three different studies showed. was that a multivitamin improved. cognition, improved processing speed, it. improved what's called episodic memory. So the kind of memory where you're. remembering experiences and you can. recall events, things like that. And not.

only did it improve it, it improved it. so much that it was equivalent to. reducing the aging of the episodic. memory by 5 years. So a simple. multivitamin and why is that important? Because you know multivitamins have a. variety of these vitamins and minerals. that we're not getting from our diet. that are important for everything. for. metabolism, for the way our. neurotransmitters are firing, for. reducing damage that's causing, you. know, oxidative stress, right? So, a.

simple multivitamin, how much easier can. it be than taking a simple multivitamin? And the fact of the matter is that we're. talking about a randomized control. trial. This is showing cause, right? This isn't just an association. This is. showing that you took a multivitamin for. a couple of years and improved your. cognition more than a placebo. So, I. think that's pretty incredible and it's. one of the examples that I like. But, um, diving deeper into some of the.

the nutrients, this is this is an area, you know, I started out as a scientist. I started out as a chemist actually. But. when I first got into biology, I was working in an aging lab and. studying aging. It was very interesting. to me because I essentially with my own. experiments with my own two hands could. could manipulate these like tiny little. worms. They're called sea elegance and. their whole genome was sequenced at the. time and this was like in the early. 2000s and um they have a lot of genes.

that are similar to humans. It's called. homology and one of the genes is the. insulin signaling pathway and the IGF-1. pathway. So insulin signaling would be. something that's activated with glucose. You're eating a lot of sugar, right? And. I could take these worms and I could. genetically decrease their insulin. signaling. So it kind of, if you think. about a parallel to that, that would be, okay, we're not going to be eating as. much sugar, right? We're not going to be. activating that pathway so much. Mhm.

>> And I could do that in this worm that. has a life expectancy of about 15 days. and I could extend its life expectancy. to 30 days, right? So you're increasing. its life expectancy by pretty much, you. know, 100%. Right? Well, not only did. they, you know, live longer, they were. healthier and youthful, and you could. see that visually, they're moving around. and they were just youthful worms. And. so I was very excited about this, you. know, in my 20s because I was like,

"Wow, this is very relevant. We have. this gene and we know lifestyle factors. that affect it, right? Sugar." So the. takehome for me was. lifestyle matters, you know? Yeah, genetics, maybe that'll be something one. day where we're decreasing the insulin. signal. But I was looking for the now, not the future technology. And so the. now to me was wow, like I don't want to. be constantly activating my, you know, insulin signaling pathway. like look. what happens to these worms if you. reduce it. I mean it's amazing. They're. youthful and they live longer. And so I.

started to kind of get into diet and. lifestyle sort of just out of curiosity. and sort of reading in the literature. and I came across some studies from my. mentor Dr. Bruce Ames where he was. showing that not getting enough. nutrients like for example folate. Folate is found in dark leafy greens. like kale. You know, folate if you if. you if you decrease folate and make. someone deficient in it, it essentially.

causes doublestranded breaks in your DNA. that essentially is like being under. ionizing radiation. And that experiment. was done like you could take a mouse. make it like put low folate in the in. you know the mouse's food and then take. another mouse and put it under an. ionizing radiation machine and the. amount of double stranded breaks in. their DNA which cause cancer which. accelerate aging which affect every. every you know how how your your cells.

are functioning it was the same. So, it. was like, wow. Not having a certain nutrient in your. diet was like standing under a radiating. machine, ionizing radiation. No one's. going to want to stand under an ionizing. radiation machine, but no one's thinking. about how your diet can do the same. thing. Um, and that was kind of I got. into a lot of Bruce's Bruce's research. at the time. So, Bruce, he anyone in the in the science field. knows Dr. Bruce Ames. actually came up. with the Ames carcinogen test and that.

essentially was a way of cheaply looking. at and identifying whether something's a. carcinogen and he got into sort of. nutrition as he started to figure things. like folate basically being lack of. folate being a carcinogen essentially. right like ionizing radiation is a. carcinogen. and then he started to go on to other. nutrients as well like magnesium and B. vitamins but I think for me the aha. moment was. micronutrients and these vitamins and. minerals are affecting the way we age,

are affecting our health on a similar. level as these toxic things that we're. worried about like ionizing radiation. >> And nobody's thinking about it like. that. >> So, I'll give you an example. Vitamin D, you talked about dementia, what's going. to help prevent dementia. Vitamin D is, it's actually more than a vitamin. Vitamin D gets converted into a steroid. hormone. So, a steroid hormone. essentially what it does is it goes into. the nucleus of a cell where all your DNA.

is and it it's activating genes and. deactivating them. It's affecting your. genome and it's actually over 5% of your. your your genome is being affected by. vitamin D. Why is that important? Because. 70% of the US population has. insufficient levels of vitamin D. The. reason for that is because vitamin D3 is. actually made in the skin from UVB. radiation from the sun. And so if you're.

not outside, then you're not really. making a lot of vitamin D3 in your skin. And vitamin D3 then gets converted into. this steroid hormone that regulates. everything, right? And so um you know. modern day society, you know, we're. inside all the time. We're working. We're not outside. And even if you were. outside, there's so many other factors. that affect it. So, anything that blocks. out UVB radiation blocks out the. availability of your body to make. vitamin D3. So, sunscreen, right? That's.

a big one. Melanin, the the darker. pigmentation that acts as a natural. sunscreen. And then latitude, depending. on where you live, also. So, you know, a. good number of months out of the year, if you're in a more northern latitude. like England, like Wales, like Chicago. or Sweden, you're not UVB radiation is. not even hitting the atmosphere, you. know, for several months out of the. year. Combine that with sunscreen or. melanin, and you got like this disaster,

right? In fact, there was a study out of. the University of Chicago that looked at. African-Americans and Caucasians. and their ability white people. >> Yeah, exactly. Their ability to make. vitamin D3 from UVB radiation. >> from the sun. Yeah. >> And as I mentioned, you know, melanin is. a natural sunscreen. And you know, people that are, you know, either, you. know, from African origin or South. American or Southeast Asian, right?

People that are closer to the equator. usually have more melanin. It's an it's. an adaptation to prevent you from. burning from the UV rays of the sun. Well, um, this University of Chicago. study found that, um, you know, people. that are African-American had to stay in. the sun six to 10 times longer than. people with fair skin, the Caucasians, to make the same amount of vitamin D3. And so, as a consequence, if you take. someone who like yourself, well, you're. you're you got a little bit more mel. melanin mixed. >> a little bit. Yeah, you've got a little. bit more melanin. But let's say you take.

someone who, you know, has a. >> like my mom, she's Nigerian. >> Okay. Your mom from Yeah. Nigerian. And. let's say your mom moves to Chicago, >> right? >> Well, she's moved to bloody England. >> Or she moved to England, right? Exactly. Then you're talking about a recipe for. disaster in terms of vitamin D because. you're not only not making it several. months out of the year, I forgot how. many months out of the year, maybe four. or five or something like that where the. UVB radiation is not even hitting the. atmosphere, but you have this natural. sunscreen. What's the consequences of.

that in terms of symptoms? >> Well, it's it's kind it's not like an. acute thing where you kind of just look. in the mirror and you're like, >> what is the causation then in terms of. >> Right. Right. Yeah. So, the reason I say. this is because people always think of. like, well, I'm not getting enough. vitamin C and I have scurvy and you can. look in the mirror and your gums are. falling apart. Right. It's easy to. identify this. Vitamin D deficiency or. insufficiency is more insidious. It's. kind of this damage that accumulates. over time. it's something that isn't, you know, quite noticeable or maybe.

maybe you're feeling, you know, m maybe. you're feeling like lethargic or you. don't have enough energy, things like. that, but you don't really really know. quite why. So, vitamin D insufficiency. and deficiency, there are acute effects. where like if it's severe, it can cause. ricketetts and like bone mal forations. and stuff, especially if it's happening. early in life. But um what we now know. is that being. deficient or insufficient in vitamin D. can increase dementia risk by 80%. And. that's been shown in multiple studies.

The converse is also true. So people. that supplement with vitamin D3, and. this is where a simple solution comes. in, right? So you're not making it from. your skin, but you can take a. supplement. People that supplement with. vitamin D3 have a 40% reduced risk of. dementia. So in other words, they're. avoiding deficiency, which is very. common, and avoiding that deficiency. then is reducing their dementia risk. And there's actually even been studies. in people with dementia, in people with. Alzheimer's disease that were giving a.

vitamin D supplement or a placebo. control. And those individuals given the. vitamin D supplement had improved. cognition. They had um lower markers of. amaloid plaques. So those were this will. those were also measured as well. So. vitamin D is doing a lot of things. It's. it's regulating 5% of your protein. encoding human genome. >> If I want to increase my probability of. getting dementia, then I've got to stay. out of the sun. I've got to avoid um. vitamin D. I've got to drink alcohol, smoke, be sedentary, and I've got to.

sleep really badly. >> Yes. And eat a lot of refined sugar. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. Exactly. Okay. >> Exactly. Now, you might go, "Well, how. much vitamin D?" Right? I'm talking. about deficiency and insufficiency and. you really want to get a blood test to. know what your levels are. There have. been I don't know 30 plus studies that. have looked at vitamin D levels and all. cause mortality. So that would be again. you know how you know dying from a. variety of different diseases.

cardiovascular disease respiratory. disease cancer and people that have. blood levels of vitamin D between 40 60. maybe 80 nanogs per milliliter have the. lowest all-c cause mortality so these. people are not deficient not. insufficient insufficiency happens at. about 30 nanogs per milliliter below. that deficiency is 20 nanogs per mill. milliliter and below and so um there. have been a variety of studies that have. looked at for example the brain and the. aging brain and vitamin D levels and.

it's been shown that for every you know. 10 nanimal per liter decrease in vitamin. D blood levels there's an increase in. brain damage it's called white matter. hyperintensities it's basically damage. to the white matter in your brain and. the white matter in your brain is myelin. that's how your brain's communicating. and and like how you know it electrical. impulses are being you know moved so. that you can think and talk and all. that. Exactly. >> Yeah. I hadn't had one today, so I feel. like you you've persuaded me.

>> Most people that are deficient can. increase their blood levels to a normal. sufficient level by about 4,000 IUs of. vitamin D per day. So, not and that's. been done that's been shown in multiple. studies. Not it's not it's not that hard. to take. In fact, vitamin D supplements. are probably the cheapest supplement out. there. It's like 10 cents per pill. When. you talked about these, >> I was really surprised to hear that they. have cancer preventing chemicals in. them. And then um I was looking at some. of the research and it does say exactly. as you said, things like kale, broccoli,

Brussels sprouts linked to a reduction. in breast cancerous prostate, lung, and. colarctyl cancers. According to the. World Cancer Research Fund and PubMed, most of us don't eat enough of this. stuff cuz it's not the tastiest stuff. And you talked about sugar as well. It. it makes me think about the diet that. I'm currently on, which is the ketogenic. diet, and whether that is an optimal. diet in terms of all of the things we've. discussed earlier, dementia, longevity, aging. What is your views on the.

ketogenic diet? I think there's there's. the extreme ketogenic diet, like the. classical ketogenic diet, and then. there's modified sort of low carb. ketogenic diets that do allow for I. mean, there's yes, these are leafy. greens that are carbohydrate, but. they're high in fiber and they're low. glycemic index. And so, you can actually. eat leafy greens on a ketogenic diet and. still be in ketosis. So I the ketogenic. diet is very I'm very interested in it.

because I do think that beta. hydroxybutyrate which is the ke major. circulating ketone body that's produced. when you're in ketosis is highly. beneficial much like lactate it can. actually do a lot of what lactate can. do. It gets into the brain and it's an e. easily utilizable source of energy by. neurons. These are ketones, which is. what your body makes when you. >> abstain from carbohydrates and sugars. Yes. It eventually shifts into ketosis. where you're running on keto.

>> You're in ketosis and you're running on. ketones. >> Yes. It's what you're measuring when. you're doing your when you're measuring. your finger prick that it's beta. hydroxybutyrate. That's the major. circulating one. >> that you're measuring. And that's. actually a signaling molecule. It's. activating brain drive neurotrphic. factor in the brain. And so it's very. interesting because it's it's almost. like having lactate in your body but. having it constantly. So I'm super. interested in a ketogenic diet. particularly for people that respond. well. I mean some people their.

triglycerides go really high, their. cholesterol goes really high and there's. sort of an I would say individual. variation in terms of how you respond. And so it's good to always measure. everything right to make sure that. you're responding well to ketogenic diet. or to maybe cycle it. I've been very. interested in cycling it for brain. benefits as well because of the beta. hydroxybutyrate where it's it's just so. beneficial for the brain. You know, it's. been shown that you know beta. hydroxybutyrate. So what happens is when.

you have this ketone like beta. hydroxybutyrate get into the brain, it's. able to be used as energy instead of. glucose. I feel like we should take a. step back and explain what keto is for. for the for the listener who maybe has. never really heard or understood it. before. And I know that there's a large. proportion of people that don't know. what it what it is because I spend a lot. of time at dinner parties trying to talk. about it. And it's super surprising to. me that the average person actually. doesn't really know what what keto or.

ketosis is. >> So, I think that's great. Yeah, we can. talk about ketosis. Um, essentially if. we if we kind of take a a thousand mile. high view of it without getting so. technical, >> yeah, >> I would say the best way to think about. being in ketosis is your body is using. fatty acids as energy and not much. glucose. You'll still use a little bit. of glucose. You need to use glucose. because your red blood cells, for. example, don't have any mitochondria.

They need glucose, but you're mostly. using fatty acids as energy that are. being produced from they're being. released from fat stored in atapost. tissue, >> which is like my belly, >> which is like your belly, visceral fat, um, subcutaneous fat. >> So, this sounds great. My body's going. to use burn the fat instead of burn, you. know, burning glucose, which I've got. from eating bread or something. So, I'm. going to get skinny. >> People do lose weight on a ketogenic. diet. >> My dad has lost so much weight, it's. ridiculous. It's like shocking. on a.

ketogenic diet. >> Yeah, it's crazy. He was quite a big man. if I say so myself. Very big belly. And. he sent me this screenshot the other day. after a couple of months on the. ketogenic diet. >> And he's like 13. He's just for the. first time ever been 13 stone since. since he was in his teens. He's now 13. stone. So he's lost what the equivalent. of about four four or five stone in. weight in a couple of months. And he. just looks completely different. Now, I'm not, you know, I'm not necessarily. saying to stay on that diet forever, but. the the speed in which one can lose.

weight on a ketogenic diet is. remarkable, >> right? And so, you're you're basically. the food that you're eating is. predominantly. fat, right? So, you're you're basically. not only using the fat that your body. already has stored, but you're also. fueling yourself. You're feeding. yourself more fat, right? So, you're. basically using the fat as energy and. through a whole bunch of biochemical. reactions, you produce ketone bodies as. a byproduct of of that. It doesn't. necessarily have to be just ketogenic.

diet. Like, you can when you're fasting, you go into ketosis, right? Because if. you think about it, you're you're not. giving yourself food. Instead, you're. relying on what your body already has as. a source of energy. And you only have so. much glucose stored as glycogen right in. your liver. And that I would say after. there's individual variation, but after. about 12 hours of not giving your body. food, you sort of deplete all your. glycogen stores and then so you start to.

shift to lipolysis, which means the. breakdown of fat. So fasting is another. way to go to get into ketosis. Another. way would be intense exercise. So, like, you know, these endurance athletes that. are doing long duration types of. exercise also can go into ketosis, right? Because they're depleting their. glycogen stores much quicker and they're. also using all this energy that they've. they've fueled themselves with because. it's it's so intense, right? Long. duration type of exercise. And so, and. you can combine these things as well, right? You can do endurance exercise.

with the ketogenic diet and you really. kind of can get into ketosis quicker. Is. it like a switch? >> So there is something called metabolic. flexibility which essentially means that. your body is able to. switch between burning glucose and using. glucose as energy but also using fatty. acids as making you know as energy and. then producing ketones as well. And the. more I would say the more um if you've.

done ketosis or if you exercise a lot. like frequently or you do any form of. fasting or what's called timerestricted. eating. So let's say you eat all your. food within an eight hour window and. then for 16 hours you're not eating. food. Your body is used to switching to. fatty acid metabolism to to using fatty. acids as energy. So you're really. metabolically flexible. And um not. everyone's able to do that because most. people actually they think they eat. within a 12-h hour period, but they. there's been studies that have been done.

that have shown that actually they eat. more like within a 15 to 16 hour period, not not even a 12-h hour period. Certainly not a 10 or eight hour period. So there's, as I mentioned, it takes. about 12 hours on average to deplete all. your glycogen levels. Now, you can. accelerate that, if you're doing a lot. of physical activity, but once you. deplete that liver glycogen, that is. when you shift into burning fatty acids. and then eventually ketosis, right? >> In terms of longevity, have they ever. done any studies where they've put. someone on the ketogenic diet or like a.

mouse or a rat on a ketogenic diet. versus the the average diet and then. monitored how long they live? >> There have been studies by uh Dr. Eric. Verden out of the uh Buck Institute for. Aging in Novado, California. And I mean. this was several years ago. He's done. these studies probably almost 10 years. ago, maybe about 2018 or 2017 these. studies were published. But um he he did. do some of these studies with a. ketogenic diet in rodents and it did. seem to extend life expectancy but more.

importantly the health span. So. particularly in the brain. So it's like. their brain had aged much much better. they had less of the all of the. pathological features of Alzheimer's. disease. And again, I do think like I. mentioned, I I'm I'm super interested in. beta hydroxybutyrate. in particular. I mean, there's it's. multiffactorial because on the one hand, you're not eating as much glucose, right? And that in in and of itself is. important because glucose can be so.

damaging particularly if you're not. physically active because it's not if. you if you're physically active and. you're eating some amount of glucose. that's going into your muscle. >> It's not damaging the vascular system. >> The vas the cardio the vascular system. is very much related to the brain, right? So when you start to stiffen your. blood vessels and stiffen everything, I. mean that's that's affecting blood flow. to the brain. It's you know it's causing. hypertension. That all affects brain. aging as well. So, I think just, you. know, and then the the the damage that.

the glucose does in and of itself, like. I mean there's studies, it's really. interesting. There's studies showing. that people even on the high end of. normal in terms of their blood glucose. levels. So, they're normal, but they're. kind of on the high end of normal. They. had more brain atrophy than people on. the low end of normal. >> By brain atrophy, you mean their brain. was. >> shrinking. >> Shrinking. >> Shrinking. And it was the hippocampus, by the way. again that. >> that part of the brain that's involved. in learning and memory. So the glucose.

itself has this effect on you causing. damage and accelerating the aging. process. But then there's this other. very interesting effect of these. chemicals that are made as a byproduct. of being in ketosis and that is the beta. hydroxybutyrate that ketone body gets. into the brain. It's transported across. the brain through an MCT transporter. And when it gets into the brain, it can. be used as energy. And you your neurons. don't need to use glucose. And it can do. that. So your your neurons can use.

glucose as energy, but it takes energy. to use that glucose to make energy. When. you use the ketone, the beta. hydroxybutyrate, it takes less energy to. you to make that energy. So it's. energetically favorable to actually use. that ketone, that beta hydroxybutyrate. On top of that, this is what's so. interesting, it frees up glucose. So, the neurons aren't using the glucose. Where does the glucose go? Right? Because it's there. It's it it sort of. shunts it into this other pathway that's. called the pentos phosphate pathway. I.

don't want to, you know, burden people. with all the technical details, but. let's get to the important part of that. is that it shunts glucose into this. pathway that makes essentially its. precursors that make what's called. glutathione, the major antioxidant in. the brain. And so you're making more. glutathione day after day after day. That is huge because oxidation in the. brain, inflammation, this is a huge. cause of brain aging and Alzheimer's. disease, dementia. We now know. neuroinflammation is one of the major.

causes of it. And so if you have more. glutathione in your brain, you are going. to basically sequester that damage. that's causing, you know, that's that's. aging the brain essentially. And so the. glucose now is not being used for. energy. It's being used to make an. antioxidant in the brain. Okay, that's. also. really cool. And there's more. There's. more. Okay, so then the beta. hydroxybutyrate itself is a signaling. molecule like lactate. >> The ketone, >> the ketone itself is a signaling.

molecule where it's basically, you know, it's a little bit of a stressed state, right? So when you're in ketosis, it's. you're stressing the body. It's either. exercise or you're fasting or you're on. this ketogenic diet. And so your body. again is responding to that stress by. making like a bunch of awesome resilient. stress response things that are. basically gonna improve the way you age. And so the ketone beta hydroxybutyrate. then activates brain drive neurotrphic. factor. This miracle growth for your.

brain, right? It's involved in growing. new neurons. It's involved in increasing. the connection between neurons. It's. involved in neuroplasticity. All those. things. And so you get this multi-level. benefit not getting not having the glue. glucose causing the damage. You have um. basically the glucose now being used. Not only is it not going causing damage, it's being used to make an antioxidant. And then you have the whole ketone, you. know, aspect where you're you're. essentially um making and activating all. these beneficial pathways in the brain. that reduces aging. And what's going on.

when we take. exogenous ketones, external ketones via. a drink or something like that? >> Yeah. So, what's happening is you're. essentially giving your body the beta. hydroxybutyrate ketone that it would. make normally if you were undergoing. ketosis and using fatty acids only as. energy. You're giving your body a big. boost of it. So, you're kind of. bypassing the the way that your body. would make it itself and giving it to. your body. And it's great for people.

that. have a hard time with doing a ketogenic. diet, for example. Maybe they just can't. stick with it or maybe they don't. respond very well to it in terms of. other biomarkers. They're going to get a. lot of the benefit, but it's only going. to last, you know, one to three hours, right? >> Yeah. Until it flushes out, right? >> Until until you use it up. Yeah. And so. it's in addition to just people that. want to get that focus and attention, which is what both you and I have. experienced when we've taken these, you. know, supplements, this exogenous. ketone.

There's also some potential therapeutic. effects. So people that have mild. cognitive decline, maybe like the first. stages of dementia or Alzheimer's. disease can kind of perk up and um. perform better when they have when. they're given an exogenous ketone, this. supplemental ketone beta. hydroxybutyrate. There's not a lot of. studies on it, but there's like a few. case studies where. >> case studies being like a single person. is given it and they're followed and.

looked at, you know, >> and it's very interesting. >> I actually know that they're doing. studies on exactly that at the moment. Um because I've spoken to a few of these. companies and a few scientists that are. in this field over the last couple of. over the last couple of weeks in fact. and they were saying that we're. currently in the process of doing. studies to see that if exogenous ketones. which are these ketone drinks or ketone. shots can repair your cognitive faculty. faculties and is that via the process. that you describe where glucose is. pushed into this other pathway?

>> Yes. So, um, I think I'm aware of the. same study because I've I've looked it. up in the clinical trial and what's. what's being looked at after giving this. exogenous beta hydroxybutyrate, this. supplemental ketone in people with. Alzheimer's disease, you can repair. damage because again you are activating. brain drive neurotrphic factor which can. it can repair damage. It can grow new. neurons. It can help with brain atrophy.

it can strengthen connection between. neurons and then the glucose now is. being shunted into that repair pathway. that glutathione is being activated and. and that's able to you know repair. damage as well. So I I'm excited to see. the public like that that study. published. >> I would hypothesize that there's going. to be beneficial effects and it's going. to be pretty exciting particularly. because it is hard for older adults some. older adults to do a ketogenic diet. It's not the easiest thing to follow. I.

mean, you do have to be pretty. disciplined. So, this alternative to being able to. supplement with something that can sort. of at least for the course of a couple. of hours do what being on a ketogenic. diet can do is very exciting. Right. >> When you took the keto shot that you had. at home, what did you experience? You. said it was potent. It was powerful. >> Yeah. It was like a neutropic effect. where when I mean neutropic effect, it's. it's the kind of effect where you you.

feel. focused, your attention, your alertness. is enhanced, you're sort of filtering. out all the background noise in your. brain that sort of those little thoughts. that pop in and distract you. And so, uh, you're more productive. And, um, that was very noticeable. In fact, there. was a time when I was like before any. podcast, I would take a shot of it. I. would do it and um it's kind kind of. expensive, but it is I there's a lot of.

people that are that are using it now. And I think it's I think it's a better. alternative to some other neutropics. that are common right now, like. nicotine, for example, which can really. have a negative trade-off, but can do. something similar. Whereas this is like. not only gives you that sort of. cognitive enhancement, that brain pump, it also has like benefits for brain. aging. Right. >> What are your superfoods? There must be. foods of yours. Um olive oil has become. one of my superfoods. Just a food that I.

love to just put on as many things as I. can because everybody tells me about. these polyphenols which are apparently. amazing for you. But what are some of. the your sort of favorite superfoods. that you try and consume that most. people might not think of? So we talked. about leafy greens. I guess that's one. of them. >> It is leafy greens. Um they have they're. high in magnesium and you know magnesium. is at the center of a chlorophyll. molecule. Chlorophyll give plants their. green color. Magnesium is very important. for preventing damage to DNA DNA and. cancer. And you know half half the US.

population doesn't get enough of it. They're high in a lot of different. compounds. I mean they're folate, vitamin K one. So you're getting a lot. of these micronutrients that are. important. So I do like re dark leafy. greens. I particularly like kale and. broccoli because of something called. sulfurophane. which is sulurophane itself is not in. them but a precursor when you break the. plant or you chew it um it makes. sulfurophane. So there's an enzyme that. gets activated that converts a precursor. in these plants called glucaraphin into.

sulurophane. Sulfurophane is also. increases glutathione in the brain. It. helps detoxify pollutants like benzene, um, bisphenol A, BPA as well. So, I do. like dark leafy greens of the. cruciferous family of vegetables. Again, that would be kale, broccoli. Um, those. are those are the cruciferous family. >> I also like blueberries. Blueberries are. a source of polyphenols. You mentioned. olive oil as a polyphenol. If you're on. a ketogenic diet, olive oil is like the. great, right? Because you need fat. And.

olive oil is so great because it also. has those polyphenols that are. beneficial. has been shown even in. studies to improve cognition and memory. and uh lower even marker markers of um. bad cardiovascular disease like Apo B. for example lower that. So blueberries I. like because blueberries have also been. shown even a cup of blueberries a day. has been shown to improve cognition. So. I like the polyphenols. It increases. blood flow to the brain. I also like.

salmon and I think that would be. something that most people would think. is healthy. I like it because it's high. in the omega-3 fatty acids which I'm. very very it's I think it's very very. important to get enough omega-3 fatty. acids. I also supplement with them. because there's a lot of research out. there and if you want to get into that. we can but um the superfood would be the. the salmon because it is a fatty source. of fish that is high in omega-3 fatty. acids EPA and DHA which are found in.

marine sources not plant sources of. omega-3. >> I found it really interesting when I was. looking at omega-3 that it has an impact. on mental health and depression and. things like that. >> Yeah, it does. It's it's it resolves. inflammation. It's sort of an. anti-inflammatory. and inflammation plays a role in. depression. A big role. In fact, we we. know that um people that are injected. with inflammatory molecules like. something that's made in our gut from. the bacteria in our gut called. lipopolysaccharide. If you inject them with that it or a.

placebo control, which is saline, it. causes depression. But if you give them. an omega-3 fatty acid supplement, EPA, it blunts the depressive symptoms. So, in other words, if you're causing the. inflammation by injecting something that. causes inflammation in people, it causes. depression. But if you give those same. people something that blunts that. inflammation, omega-3 fatty acids, it. doesn't cause the depression, which is. kind of amazing. And there's a ton of. other evidence out there. But, um, omega-3 fatty acids are.

they're so important. And what's. interesting was there's a study out of. Harvard that identified the marine. source. So, I talked about salmon, EPA, DHA, and then there's the plant source, ALA. And I say marine source because. it's really those are the important ones. that you really want. >> from the ocean, >> from fish, seafood. So, this Harvard. study identified not eating enough. seafood as one of the top six. preventable causes of death up there.

with not having hypertension, not. smoking. So essentially not getting. enough omega-3 from seafood was so. important for preventing early death. that it was comparable to people having. high blood pressure, having. cardiovascular disease, for example. And. again, it's one of those things where. people just don't think about what. they're not eating, what they're not. getting. And um you there's so much. research that have been done even since. that that study that was published in.

like 2009 looking at omega-3 fatty acid. levels in our blood cells, red blood. cells. This is called the omega-3 index. O it's really an important marker of our. long-term omega-3 because our our red. blood cells stay around in our system. for like 120 days. So it's a long-term. marker of your omega-3 intake. And. there's been a variety of studies um. done from Dr. Bill Harris out of the. fatty acid research institute. So I'm an.

associate a scientist there showing that. people with what's called a high omega-3. index. >> which is a lot of omega-3. >> a lot of omega-3 their omega-3 index. would be 8% or higher that's considered. high compared to a low omega-3 index. That would be 4% or lower. The average. omega-3 index in the United States is. about 5%. So, it's on the low low range. People that had the high omega-3 index, in other words, they were either eating. a lot of fish like salmon and or.

supplementing with fish oil or. microalgae oil, which is another a. marine source of these omega-3 fatty. acids. They had a five-year increased. life expectancy compared to people with. a low omega-3 index. Pretty big. difference there. All all you have to do. is essentially either eat enough seafood. and or supplement with a fish oil. supplement. But what was so fascinating. about this study was that Bill and his.

colleagues not only looked at the. omega-3 index, they looked at people. that also smoked and they said, "Okay, we know smoking is terrible for your. heart. We know it's causes early. mortality, cancer, and all that, right? What about people that smoke and their. omega-3 index? So, there was four groups. that were looked at. Smokers that have. either a high omega-3 index, so these. smokers were either supplementing or. they were eating a lot of seafood. And. then there were smokers with a low.

omega-3 index. And they compared them to. non-smokers with a high omega-3 index. versus a low omega-3 index. And what was. so fascinating about this study was that. smoking was like as bad for you in terms. of mortality as having a low omega-3. index. So the smokers with a high. omega-3 index had the same mortality. risk as non-smokers with a low omega-3. index, which is fascinating because. everybody knows to avoid smoking.

Smoking, if you want to take years off. your life, if you want to decrease the. quality of your life, start smoking. right now. But the same mortality risk was found in. non-smokers who did not have a high. omega-3 index. Right now, I say this, I'll talk about this and smokers will. say, "Oh, great. Now all I have to do is. take fish oil and I'll have the same. life expectancy as a non-smoker with, you know, a low omega-3 index." But of. course, the the take-home here is that.

for those of us that are not smoking, but we're not getting enough omega-3. from our diet, that's like smoking in. terms of mortality risk. So, super. important, and I like talking about this. because it really makes it again really. clear that not getting these essential. nutrients can be very detrimental to our. health. And it's easy to fix. You can. take a fish oil supplement. You can. increase the amount of salmon that. you're eating. And there have been. studies from Bill's group that have. shown people that supplement with. between 1 to two grams of fish oil per.

day can go from a low omega-3 index to a. high omega-3 index, which is not hard to. do. >> So, I guess two questions, which is, is. having these little omega capsules the. same as eating the salmon in terms of. the omega3 that I'm getting? And how. long do I have to take these little. omega capsules for to move from having a. low index to a high omega-3 index? >> Well, these are great questions, Stephen. So, essentially, this little.

capsule here is not the same as eating. salmon. And there's a few reasons why. So, for one, when you're eating a fish. that's high in omega-3, like salmon, you have this omega-3 in what's called. triglyceride form. So the omega-3 is is. is bound to a glycerol backbone and. that's really important for the way you. absorb it. Some fish oil supplements. don't have that. They're they're aster. they're basically they're molecular. distilled and then they're put they have.

an ethanol back backbone. So it's not. quite as bioavailable. But I think more. importantly is that these fish oil. supplements are. purified. So you're not getting mercury. or microplastics or things that are also. found in the whole fish. >> So these are better. >> Unfortunately, I think so. I do. Um, as. much as I think it's it's better, you. know, for the longest time I always I. was always a whole foods first approach.

Um, but we do have this environmental. pollution problem and fish have been. contaminated with heavy metals. They've. been contaminated with microplastics. I would say that salmon is one of the. lowest fish that has the lowest amount. of mercury compared to other fish. So it. on a on a per gram basis, you're getting. less mercury per gram with salmon than. you would be with, you know, something. like swordfish, for example. But but you. also have microplastics unfortunately.

that are now in fish. And it is. something that enters our body when we. eat the fish. And so I do think the fish. oil supplements are a good alternative. because you're getting those omega-3. fatty acids and you're not you're you're. not getting some of the other bad things. that are in the fish. >> That's fascinating. I didn't really I. didn't really think of omega-3 as being. that important, especially as it relates. to longevity. I always thought about it. as being something that would help my. brain work better today. You know, cognitive performance now. >> Well, it does that and it also helps. prevent the cognitive decline later. And.

also cardiovascular disease, that's a. big one. So there have been some really. large randomized control trials that. have actually given people with. cardiovascular disease that are on, you. know, some sort of standard of care. treatment like a statin and they've. given them four grams a day of a. purified form of omega-3 called EPA. versus a placebo. And the people given. the omega-3. had 25% less cardiovascular related. death or events like heart attacks and. strokes. So, it's not only like.

preventing, you know, we talked about. all cause mortality and this association. where you live longer. It's also helping. people that already have cardiovascular. disease and reducing their risk of dying. from it. >> Right guys, going to go get Steve. The. guest is here. Ready? >> Come in. >> Oh my god. Steve, >> what are you doing? >> This is uh the Bontage face mask. It's. good for blemishes, wrinkles, uh clears. up the skin. It's red light. Have you. not used it before? >> No. I tried this before. It's um it's.

really really good. It's shines red. light on your face which helps increase. and boost collagen production. Actually. found it out cuz the misses seen her. wearing it. She terrified me a couple of. nights in a row. Um I thought it was to. scare people with but actually it's. really really good for your skin. So. they are a sponsor of the podcast and uh. I've been using it every day for about a. year and a half now. >> Wow. >> Well, Steve is great. >> Yes. And Bon Charge ships worldwide with. easy returns and a year-long warranty on. all of their products. So, visit. bondcharge.com/diary. for 25% off on any product sitewide. But.

you have to order through that link. That's boncharge.com/diary. with code diary. When I asked you before this. conversation started rolling, what. you're really excited about at the. moment, your response to me was there. was a few things, but one of them which. lit up your face was creatine. >> Yes. And it's funny because. >> it lit up your face again. >> Yeah. It's it's funny because creatine. has been around for I mean ever for. decades and it's always been in my mind.

it was like one of those Jim bro things. I'm like I don't need to be swole. >> Yeah. >> I don't need creatine get get swole. And. you know this is this was the thought. for for many many years. And then over. the last five years or so. the effects of creatine on the brain. started to really get my interest. anything that affects the brain I really. become interested in. And so that's kind. of what did get me the most excited. about about creatine, but also I started.

doing a lot of resistance training. And. so I was like, "Okay, here I am now. I'm. like one of those gym guys. I'm doing. I'm doing the barbells. I'm doing the, you know, the squats and the deadlifts. and all that." And so so why not give. myself some of the creatine? Well, what. is creatine, right? Why is it important? You talked about earlier, you know, why. doesn't our body just make more of these. things that are so beneficial? We do. make creatine. We make about, I don't. know, our liver makes about 1 to three. grams a day of creatine and our brain.

also makes creatine and those are the. two organs that make it. Creatine gets. consumed by other tissues like the. muscle is probably the one that's the. greediest because creatine is stored as. phosphocreatine but it's used to make. energy essentially. So it can increase. muscle mass, it can increase muscle. strength in combination with resistance. training because you're able to. regenerate and make energy faster. So,

for example, I became interested in it. after reading studies where people that. supplemented with creatine that were. engaged in resistance training were able. to gain more lean body mass. They were. able to gain more strength. It was. increasing their training volume. So, you can do one to two more reps, right, of of whatever exercise you're doing. And it seems to decrease the recovery. time between those those sets as well. So, you're able to increase your. training volume. Well, anything that's. going to in increase your training.

volume is going to then have the. downstream effect of, you know, increasing the adaptations like. increased muscle mass or increased. muscle strength. I started supplementing. with creatine about a year ago and I. started supplementing with it for that. reason, for the my training and I was. doing about five grams a day because. that was really what was shown to to be. beneficial for muscle health in. combination with resistance training. And it's important for people to realize. that supplementing with creatine by.

itself, without any type of resistance. training, isn't going to grow your. muscle. It's not going to make you. stronger. You have to put in the effort. because what creatine is doing, it's. helping you make the energy quicker, right? And that and then being able to. make that energy quicker means that. you're able to then do that exercise. better, um, harder, more of it, right? So, um, it's sort of sup supercharging. your exercise routine. and five grams a day was like, "Okay, perfect. That's what I'm doing. I'm. doing five grams a day." And definitely.

noticed an effect on my training volume. where I was, you know, doing more more. reps. So that was like, okay, a year. ago, I had already been aware of the. effects on the brain. I thought maybe. the five grams a day would do that. So. what are the effects on the brain? Well, your brain also consumes a lot of. energy, you know, needs a lot of energy. So it does make its own creatine. But it. turns out if you can if you can give. your brain more of that creatine.

particularly under a period of anything. that's causing stress. So let's say lack. of sleep or let's say emotional. psychological stress or in my case high. cognitive load where you're just every. day learning concepts, complex things. you're trying to remember them. You're. putting ideas together and coming up. with new hypotheses and you know, you're. just you're just you're studying a lot. and it's very cognitively demanding and.

it's it's a type of stress on your. brain. That's like my life, right? Um. under this condition of stress, depression is another one. That's a. stress on your brain or neurodeenerative. disease. That's a stress on your brain. So any kind of stressful condition, that's where creatine shines in the. brain. I would argue that I mean all of. us who who has the perfect amount of. sleep never has stress nobody right. there's always some sort of stress in. the background. So um that's when I was.

like okay so if you're the perfect. person you have no stress you get the. perfect amount of sleep every night your. brain makes enough creatine to kind of. do what it needs to do. I know that I'm. constantly under stress. So um I'm like. okay well I think I need a boost. And. this is where a lot of very interesting. studies have come out of many different. labs. Um, some out of Germany that. looked at the dose of creatine and how. it increases creatine levels in the. brain. And this is why I now supplement.

with 10 grams a day. So the study out of. Germany. found that five grams a day of creatine, if you're supplementing with five grams. a day, your muscles are greedily. consuming it. Particularly if you're. working out, they want it. They want it. after about five grams a day, especially. over a few months, like you're you're. saturating your muscle and that's. enough, right? Anything above that kind. of spills over to the brain. And so they. what this German study found was that 10. grams of creatine increased creatine.

levels in several different regions of. the brain. And that was probably the. most exciting, you know, I would say. evidence that supplementing higher than. five grams a day was actually doing. something in terms of getting creatine. into the brain. There have now been a variety of studies. that have looked at different outcomes, right? So, if you supplement with 10. grams of creatine or even go higher than. that, like 20 grams of creatine, how. does that affect cognitive function, right? And so, um some of these studies. have been been done by uh Dr. Darren. Kandow. He's um at the University of.

Regina in Canada and it's looked they've. looked at things like sleep deprivation. and it's been found that if you take. someone and you sleep deprive them for. 21 hours and give them about 25 to 30. grams of creatine, it completely negates. the cognitive deficits of sleep. deprivation. Actually, not only does it. negate the cognitive deficits of sleep. deprivation, it makes people function.

better than if they were well-rested. That's where I was like, wait a minute, there's many times when I'm traveling, I'm jet-lagged. Uh lots of times when. I'm sleep deprived and I have to be. doing a podcast or a presentation, whatever. And in those situations, I go. up from my 10 grams to more like 20. grams. Like today for example, I wasn't. really sleepdeprived, but you know, there was a lot of high cognitive. demand. This is a long podcast. There's.

all that stuff. And so I went up to 20. grams today on my creatine. And I Well, I will say even at the 10 grams for me, we were talking about this with respect. to being in ketosis. I don't feel that mid-afternoon crash. when I have the creatine. Not being on a. ketogenic diet, not being in ketosis. It's very clear for me and I've done. this where sometimes I only do five. grams and then if I do that I'll notice. I'm like why am I tired right now? So.

there's something interesting and maybe. it's placebo. I'm going to throw that. out there. Very possible. But I don't. know maybe the creatine is again it's. able to regenerate that energy quicker. and so that's also beneficial for the. brain. And now I I would say all these. creatine researchers a lot of them are. shifting to the brain. And it used to be. all muscle focused and now people are. super interested in what creatine is. doing to the brain, especially if you're. supplementing with more of it. And you. know, this is important for people that. are under a stressful situation, but.

also for vegans because creatine is. found in food, mostly in animal products. like meat and poultry and fish, dairy. A. lot of vegans don't eat that. And I've. had so many of my vegan friends, I've got them on the creatine, and it's. changed their lives. I mean, they're. like, "This is like incredible." You. know, can you imagine someone who's not. getting any creatine from their diet. because they eat no meat and all of a. sudden they start supplementing with 5, 10 grams of creatine and it's like they. have energy. Some people say they they.

require less sleep, which is kind of. interesting. That's kind of a comment. I've heard many, many times from people. is that it's like their brain doesn't. need as much sleep. They have more. energy. So, um, I've been a big fan of. the creatine, um, not only for the. muscle, especially because, you know, working out is something that's very. important, but for the brain as well. I always thought of creatine as. something that you you took and you kind. of had to load up on, and then over a. couple of weeks or months, the effects. would kick in. But you're telling me. that if I had creatine in the morning,

that same day, I would experience. potentially improved cognition if I have. a big enough dose. >> Yes. So, um, great question. A lot of. studies that have been done that you're. referring to have been done in the. context of exercise and muscular. performance. And the reason why people. have to load up on like they do a. loading phase, let's say 20 grams and. then they go down to this sort of. maintenance phase of five grams is. because it takes I don't know I think.

it's about a month or so before you can. saturate your muscular stores of. creatine. And then. >> what does that mean? It means that um. the creatine which is actually stored in. your muscle as phosphocreatine is there. and ready to be used to make energy. So. so it takes again it takes about a month. or so to do that unless you are really. giving your muscles a high dose right. So the five grams a day it only it can. only do it for so many days and then.

finally you get saturated. When you do. this loading phase you kind of just. accelerate that whole process. And so. that's why when people are doing these. experiments where they want to test the. effects of creatine, they want they want. the participants to have really high. levels of creatine in their muscles. quick because they don't want to do a. month-long experiment, right? They want. the experiment to be like a couple of. weeks or a week. So that was kind of the. whole concept behind this loading phase. If you're not someone who's going to. some kind of competition, you know, like. your CrossFit games or something, you.

don't really need to do that loading. phase if you've already been. supplementing with five grams a day for. like a month. When it comes to the. brain, what's happening if you get above. that five grams, that's pretty much all. consumed by the muscle. You're having. some leftover in circulation and the. brain takes it up and it takes it up, right? When it re what it really shines. is under that stressful condition, which. again for me, I feel like every day is. this is is like cognitively demanding. for me because I'm constantly, you know, learning new material or learning new.

information or working on things, right? And so there's a lot of cognitive stress. on my brain. And so I feel like I'm. constantly under that stress. And that's. where getting the creatine in your brain. helps you make that energy quicker. And. so that's why like I've done I've had, you know, been jetlagged and have have. to give a talk at you, you know, like. 5:00 a.m. in the morning, my my. biological time after not getting sleep. And I've done like 25 grams of creatine. And it it's insane how much it helps me. Again, it could be placebo because I'm. anticipating that effect, which is fine.

Placebo is a real thing. It's great. I'm. all about it. But there's some evidence. also that this works, right? That the. creatine is helping with under that. sleep deprivation and that stressful. condition. >> I was reading about a study in 2025. where they. gave creatine to people that had. depressive symptoms alongside CBT. training. And the people that had. creatine and the cognitive behavioral. therapy training experienced a greater. improvement in their depression symptoms. than those who just received the.

cognitive behavioral therapy, which is. which is incredible. >> It's fascinating. I mean, depression is. a type of brain stress, right? I mean, we know inflammation plays a role in in. depression. We know oxidative stress. plays a role in depression. And there. have now been some animal studies that. have shown creatine is somehow having an. anti-inflammatory effect. I that hasn't. all been worked out. So I don't know if. it's all just the energy component of. it. It could also be this other sort of.

newly identified role that creatine's. playing in sort of having an. anti-inflammatory effect. And I don't. know much enough about that. I don't. know that there's enough even known. about that, but I do know that it. exists. And it's fascinating because. again I think where creatine really. shines in the brain and it's been shown. study after study is under some kind of. stressful condition depression or sleep. deprivation or there's a new study that. came out it was published I don't know a. month ago or so showing that it was a.

very small pilot study and I want to. caveat this there was no placebo control. but it did show that giving people with. Alzheimer's disease creatine I believe. it was 20 grams a day did improve their. cognition. And so again, this is a whole. new field where now we're looking at. creatine in the brain, not just the gym. bros and not just the muscular effects, but in the brain and how it's affecting. the brain and being beneficial for. cognition, for brain aging, for.

depression. >> Is there a link or an association with. cancer outcomes in creatine? Wondering. because I was there was there was a. study that I was looking at earlier. Yeah, this one it says a a 2025 study of. 25,000 people each found that for each. additional 0.09 grams of creatine over a. two-day average was linked to a 14%. reduction in cancer risk. >> Right. >> Which was in the Frontiers Journal and. reported by the BBC. >> Yeah. That it's it's like a new. unexplored, you know, association here.

where it's like I I don't know why. creatine is doing it. Is it the. anti-inflammatory effect? Is it who. knows? But again, I mean that I I was. aware of that study and it's like a. whole new area that needs to be explored. where you know some people were worried. about creatine actually causing cancer. I've actually had people ask me that. question and it's actually the opposite. where it seems to be reducing cancer. risk. >> The some of the other sort of. misconceptions around creatine are that. it's going to I mean there was this. stereotype that people take it they get.

massive muscles and they become bloated. So I think that put a lot of women off. in particular according to some research. that we actually did just to understand. perceptions of creatine in my investment. fund. But the other one was hair loss. People think there's some sort of. association with hair loss. I.e. if you. take creatine you're more likely to lose. your hair. >> Right. So there was this one study that. was published I don't even know how many. decades ago. Maybe you can pull it up. but it was in rugby players I believe. and these rugby players that were given. I I believe it was a high dose. Maybe it.

was 20 grams. I can't remember the exact. dose but um they had increased levels of. dihydrotestosterone. DHT which is something that is linked to. androgenic alipcia. So this would be you. know basically your the the DHT can. affect the hair follicle and keep it in. this like stunted phase where it's not. growing and so that can cause hair loss. And that one study didn't measure hair. loss. It just again looked at the the. DHT, the dihydrotestosterone levels.

It's never been replicated. There's. after so many decades, it's never had. any animal evidence showing that this. actually causes hair loss. Nothing has. really come up showing that this is. something to be concerned about. So, I. take it as, okay, it's like a one-off. thing. Who knows what was going on here? But like, you would think if it was. real, it would be replicated after when. was it published? 2009. >> 2009. >> Yeah. So, it was a group of rugby.

players. They were given 25 grams a day. of of creatine. Um, but there was. actually a study, a randomized control. trial done in 2025, this year with 45. resistant trained men all given five. grams a day of creatine over 12 weeks. And there was no significant difference. found in their hair outcomes or DHT. versus placebo. >> There we go. When was that published? >> 2025. >> Oh, this year. randomized control. of. >> med. Well, I mean to get to get also to. your your other point about the water.

weight gain. I know this is a real thing. because also several of my my. girlfriends were concerned about this as. well. And it's funny, you know, creatine. does bring water into the cell and but. that's actually a it's not a bad thing, right? And it you're really not going to. get a big gain in weight. I mean, I. can't imagine. There's nothing more than. like two pounds, >> you know, if if if anything at all. So, I do think that is sort of uh something. that's I don't it's a it's a it's a fear.

that's not justified in my opinion. I. mean, you lose you you gain, you know, four pounds of water weight when you're. on your menstrual cycle. >> Yeah. You mentioned fasting. >> Yeah. There's been lots of conversation. around fasting, around whether it's. good, bad, how long to fast, or whether. just restricting your calories is the. same as fasting. A lot of people talk. about autophagy. My girlfriend talks. about water fasting. What is your. perspective on the role of fasting, how. we should do it, if we should do it,

when we should do it, who should do it? >> I think it depends on what your goal is. So you mentioned people talk about. calorie restriction and really you know. is the fasting just about the calorie. restriction and I think when it comes to. weight loss losing losing weight. predominantly hopefully fat not muscle. then calorie restriction is the main. thing to do here and intermittent. fasting is sort of a tool to get you.

there. In other words, people that are. doing intermittent fasting tend to eat. fewer calories. And that's been shown in. several studies, even if they aren't. counting their calories because they are. limited in the amount of time they're. eating and then they're fasting for a. longer period of time. They end up just. consuming naturally fewer calories. >> Being in a calorie deficit, is that. going to put you into the ketogenic. state that you get from not fasting? >> No. Not if not necessarily. No, it's. not. So you can be in a calorie deficit,

but it it depends, right? So when you're. when you're in the fasted state, what's. important here is you're activating a. bunch of pathways that don't become. active when you're in a fed state. And. there's a lot of biochemical reactions. that sort of dictate all that. But you. mentioned autophagy, right? And and. that's the big one, and that's happening. only when you're really in a fasted. state. >> What is it? >> There's different types of it. So. generally speaking, it's the clearing.

out of damaged stuff within your cell. So what is damaged stuff? It can be. protein aggregates. For example, if we. think about in neurons, amaloid beta. protein aggregates. So autophagy could. play a role in clearing that out. >> The plaques and stuff you get in your. brain. >> Exactly. But you also get plaques in. your cardiovascular system. So autophagy. can play a role in clearing that out. Um. but it also can be fragments of DNA. It. can be, you know, all all sorts of gunk. and stuff that just can accumulate.

inside of your cell. And so you're kind. of getting rid of that. Also, it can be. even on the level of, let's say, it's the organal level. So you can. actually have your mitochondria. We. talked about mitochondria being the. major source of energy inside of our. cells. Mitochondria are very important. for the health of all of our cells, our. neurons, our muscle, because they. produce energy. But mitochondria also. accumulate a lot of damage quite easily. because they produce energy and they use. oxygen to do that. They make a lot of. what's called reactive oxygen species.

So these are things that can really. react with our DNA with proteins inside. of our our cells with with um lipids. So. the cell membranes. So your mitochondria. don't really have a repair system like. our DNA does. So we have DNA repair. enzymes that can repair damage to our. DNA, right? That's where magnesium comes. in. magnesium is required for these. enzymes to be activated to repair damage. to our DNA to prevent cancer. Our. mitochondria don't have that kind of. repair system. They have another repair.

system and one of it is what's called. mphagy which is kind of a subp part of. autophagy and it's where the. mitochondria they accumulate damage. you. can essentially. take that mitochondria and get rid of. it, right? Or a piece of that. mitochondria that damage and get rid of. it through this sort of autoagy type of. thing, but it's called mopagy. And that. happens with other types of what are. called organels within our cells. So. this autophagy process, this autophagy.

is sort of a general term, but it's. essentially the cleaning out of damage. It's the repair process for damage. And. it's something that happens most the. time when we're in a fasted state, which. typically happens when we're sleeping. >> How long do do I have to be in a fasted. state for? >> I mean, it depends. I would say. that we haven't really worked that out. great in humans because people aren't. measure measuring biomarkers of. autophagy in humans. There have been. some studies that have looked at being.

in a fasted state for like 16 hours. And. essentially once you get once you break. through that part of depleting all your. liver glycogen that's an important you. know precursor for activating autophagy. So I mentioned earlier that happens. after about 12 hours right so as you get. to 12 13 14 15 16 hours then you're. probably getting to that state of. autophagy. Um however there's such. limited evidence evidence on that in. humans. A lot of it comes from animal.

studies. With that caveat, I will say. that you can get a lot of benefits. So, some of the metabolic benefits from. fasting include improved glucose levels, improved um blood pressure regulation, metabolic effects, improved for example, weight loss. Right? Now, can you get all. of that from just doing caloric. restriction versus doing t like this. intermittent fasting? Right? You can get. a lot of it, but there have been studies. showing that doing doing this sort of.

intermittent fasting is beneficial uh. for some of these metabolic parameters. outside of the caloric being in a. caloric deficit. >> What does that mean? Metabolic. parameters. >> again glucose regulation, blood. pressure, your blood pressure control as. well. So these things have been shown in. in people that are doing timerestricted. eating. So they're basically doing a. type of intermittent fasting where. especially if they're doing a really. compressed window. So they're eating all. their food within six hours and then. fasting for like 18 hours.

That's really beneficial, right? Because. and even if they have the same amount of. calories as people that are calorically. restricted, they've compared those. head-to-head. people that are doing the. fasting have better improvements in. their glucose regulation, better. improvements in in um their blood. pressure than people that are even still. eating fewer calories but not doing the. fasting component. >> So, what would you recommend for the. average person? I asked you earlier on. to give me a a sort of a perfect uh. a perfect prescription of what I should. do in terms of fasting.

on a daily basis. Do you think I should. have eating uh sort of fasted windows. of, you know, 12 to 20 hours? >> You know, I think it really depends on. what you're looking for. And personally, if you are wanting to have this more. autophagy kind of potentially autophagy. activation where you're you're clearing. away stuff within your cells. Again, we. don't really know the hard number yet, but I would say yeah, you probably want.

to be around a 16. hour window of not eating. >> What do you do? >> I mean, it depends on the day, you know, >> on an optimal day. >> Most of the time, I'm I'm probably. eating all of my food within a 10-hour. window. And so, I'm fasted for 14 hours, but optimally, like it all depends on my. family and like eating dinner with my. family and what's going on. >> Do you ever do longer fasts? I don't do. I mean I would say a a day is like the. longest that I do but I do a lot of.

exercise on top of that and so you can. kind of kick yourself into that. autophagy state a little bit more. because it's kind of like we talked. about this it's a way of sort of. supercharging your ketosis and so if. you're exercising and fasting um that. kind of supercharges that whole. autophagy system as well but um it I do. think it's a kind of an interesting idea. uh to do some longer fasts maybe once a. year, once a quarter depending. >> why. >> because you are activating that repair.

process. Now you have to do resistance. training because you don't want to lose. muscle mass. Protein is important. It's. one of the signals for you know muscle. protein synthesis which is essential for. you know gaining muscle mass and. maintaining muscle mass. Right. >> So after a fast you want to break the. fast with something protein richch. >> Absolutely. Definitely protein rich for. sure. Um, but I think also during a fast. if you can do some kind of you want to. you want to stimulate your muscles with. mechanical force because that's the.

other signal to stimulate muscle protein. synthesis. And so I I think one of the. biggest concerns people had with fasting. and this was over the last 5 years or so. is that studies have shown people that. undergo intermittent fasting tend to. lose muscle mass because they're eating. fewer meals. they're not getting as much. protein and perhaps they're not doing. resistance training. Now, there have. been other studies that have looked at. people doing intermittent fasting and. resistance training and they don't lose.

muscle mass because they are doing. they're getting that mechanical. stimulation of their of their muscles. which is preventing the loss of muscle. mass. And so, I think the take-home here. is if you are doing intermittent. fasting, you want to make sure you're. getting all your protein, 1.6 1.2 to 1.6. six grams of protein per kilogram body. weight per day depending on how much. you're resistance training. And you also. you want to make sure you're getting. your protein in that small window that. you're eating. And you want to make sure. that you're doing resistance training as. well. Those are two really important.

things if you are going to do. intermittent fasting. >> There was a study I read which is linked. to that which said linked to that but. sort of adjacent that says uh in in nine. human trials they found that 23% of. people enjoyed better sleep after. intermittent fasting. which I thought. was interesting. >> Yeah, cause causation is obviously hard. to establish there, but. >> Right. I I think and that brings us to. this other sort of aspect of. intermittent fasting, which is. timerestricted eating. Essentially, what. what's the best thing to do is really.

you want to you want to eat within an. earlier time window. And there's a lot. of reasons for that. One of them is that. when you eat later in the day, let's say. 8 o'clock at night, nine o'clock at. night, your body is starting starting to. naturally make melatonin. That's a hormone that's involved in. helping you get sleepy. Well, melatonin. also inhibits the production of insulin. And so you basically.

will have elevated blood glucose levels. when you're eating later in the day. because you're you're less you're you're. basically less gluc your your glucose. regulation is impaired somewhat, right? So it's better to try to eat your food. earlier in the day, but then there's. also this this area of you want to. probably stop eating like 3 hours before. your natural bedtime. And that does. affect sleep. So, if you think about it, when you're sleeping, you don't want to. be digesting. Like, there's all these.

things that are activated during. digestion, and that's going to affect. the way you sleep. And so, there are. some interesting studies that have found. that people sleep better if they stop. eating at least three hours before bed. That is something that I do try to do. almost daily. And um it's also something. that was very interesting. I think a. friend of mine, Dr. Dr. Sachin Panda at. the Sulkq Institute was one of the first. people to observe that. He's got this. this app that he um has called my. circadian clock and he used he's used. this app over the years for clinical.

trials where people will take a picture. of their food and it timestamps the. foods that he knows what time they're. eating and when they stop eating. >> And and people that are part of this. trial started to send him comments. going, "Oh, I stopped eating earlier and. all of a sudden my sleep is better." And. after you start to get about 10, 20, 30. people making the same comment, you. start to go, wait a minute, there's. something here, right? And so I think he. was one of the first people to actually. um observe that that correlation between.

stop eating earlier and sleeping better. >> Well, you talked about protein earlier. when we're talking about resistance. training and fasting. When should I Someone told me that. you're supposed to take protein straight. after you did the a resistance training. workout. Straight after you lift the. weights like 30 minutes after. Does it. matter? >> Well, we that's what was thought I think. previously for I don't know how many. years it was thought this was there was. an anabolic window, right? Where you. want to take in this protein within 30. minutes to an hour of doing your.

resistance training. And that way the. amino acids that are anabolic like. leucine are going into the muscle and. building muscle essentially, right? We. now know that it's not really an. anabolic window. It's about your daily. protein intake because what exercise is. doing, what the resistance training is. doing is it's sensitizing all your. transporters and your muscle to amino. acids. And that's that's happening over. the course of 24 hours. So you can take. that protein in within that day and it.

it really still do the same thing. So I. don't think you have to slam your. protein shake within 30 minutes to an. hour. Maybe maybe if you're like a. bodybuilder and you're really trying to. get that little tiny tiny tiny. percentage, maybe you'll have a little. bit of a benefit. But generally. speaking, most people what you want to. look at is your daily protein intake. because that's essentially um the most. important thing. And the exercise itself.

is sensitizing all these, you know, transporters on your muscle that are. allowing the amino acids to come in and. build protein, increase muscle protein. synthesis. >> Whether you are a novice or you've been. in the tax and bookkeeping industry for. years, if you want to work with an. experienced team of professionals who. are invested in your learning and. growth, there's a real career. opportunity with our sponsor, Intuit, the maker of Turboax and QuickBooks. Their self-paced training, Intuit. Academy, presents you with a pathway to. gain the necessary skills that you'll.

need to feel confident expanding your. career within tax and bookkeeping. And. their team is extremely supportive, too, with a large network of experienced, credentialed professionals right by your. side as you learn and gain experience. On top of all of this upskilling, they. also offer flexible working schedules, whether that's full-time, part-time, virtual, on-site, or even letting you. select your hours to grow at the pace. that you want to grow at. Intuit is. currently growing their network of tax. and bookkeeping professionals. So if you. want to build a career with them on your. own terms, just head to. intuitit.com/expert.

I'll put that on the screen. That's. intuitit.com/expert. I've just invested millions into this. and become a co-owner of the company. It's a company called Ketone IQ. And the. story is quite interesting. I started. talking about ketosis on this podcast. and the fact that I'm very low carb, very, very low sugar, and my body. produces ketones, which have made me. incredibly focused, have improved my. endurance, have improved my mood, and. have made me more capable at doing what. I do here. And because I was talking. about it on the podcast, a couple of.

weeks later, these showed up on my desk. in my HQ in London, these little shots. And oh my god, the impact this had on my. ability to articulate myself, on my. focus, on my workouts, on my mood, on. stopping me crashing throughout the day. was so profound that I reached out to. the founders of the company and now I'm. a co-owner of this business. I highly, highly recommend you look into this. I. highly recommend you look at the science. behind the product. If you want to try. it for yourself, visit. ketone.com/stephven.

for 30% off your subscription order. And. you'll also get a free gift with your. second shipment. That's. ketone.com/stephven. And I'm so honored that once again, a. company I own can sponsor my podcast. There's a term that you've used a few. times which I'm I'm not super well. educated on, which is insulin. resistance. What is insulin resistance? Is that. something associated with diabetes? And. therefore, does someone like me need to. care? I don't have diabetes. >> Okay, let's take a step back. when you.

are eating something that is going to. raise your blood glucose levels, right? You. >> so like a piece of bread or some sugar. or whatever, >> right? So essentially, if you're. increasing that glucose spike in your in. your bloodstream, you want to have that. glucose go somewhere. You want it to go. to your muscle and or sometimes it goes. to your atapost tissue. But in order to. do that, you have to activate insulin. And insulin then causes these. transporters that usually aren't active.

to kind of come up and take in the. glucose. So insulin resistance is when. you're basically constantly constantly. activating that pathway um such that. your cells don't respond to the insulin. like they used to. And so the insulin. isn't doing its job as well. And so. essentially your blood glucose levels. stay elevated and that causes all sorts. of damage the glycation and things like. that we've talked about. >> So it's really insulin failure.

Insulin's failing to do its job. >> Well, it depends because you're still. making the insulin but it's essentially. not the insulin receptor isn't. responding to that insulin and so it's. it's not doing its job. Yes, it's not. doing its job. But it's different from. type 1 diabetes in in the sense where. you're type 1 diabetes, you're actually. not even making the insulin, right? So. that's very different. So yeah, insulin. is not able to do its job. But insulin. resistance and I mean there's there's so. many different diseases that it's been.

linked to. But everything I think. everything is so complicated. So I don't. know that everything's due to insulin. resistance, but it's like one component. of, you know, something that's. accelerating the way you age. I had a a. light doctor in here the other day, a. sunlight doctor the other day and we. spent a lot of time talking to talking. about light and sunlight and one of the. things that I've been really fascinated. by is red light therapy over the last. couple of months. Do you do have a sort. of red light therapy routine? >> It's interesting that you ask. So red.

light therapy in the scientific. literature called photobiomodulation. Um, I know that's a complicated word, but you know, there's essentially a. variety of different wavelengths that. can be used to stimulate physiological. processes like mitochondria inside of. your your cells to to do stuff, right? I. now am convinced that red light therapy. plays a role in helping with skin aging. So, I do have a mask. It helps with with. skin aging and wrinkles. There have been.

enough studies now that is pretty. convincing that it does seem to improve. the way skin ages. I do think the. important thing here is the parameters. that are done. It's not just wavelength, but it's also like the energy, so. irradiance. And so you have to kind of. look at all those parameters and make. sure you can replicate that with. whatever product that you're using. >> What about infrared saunas? >> Infrared saunas or traditional saunas? >> The infrared ones. >> Infrared. So infrared saunas are a type.

of sauna that is using. it's using you know essentially infrared. radiation right infr infrared. wavelengths to heat up the body. And so. they're not very hot. So if you look at. like the ambient temperature in an. infrared sauna it goes up to like 140. degrees Fahrenheit. which is very different from a. traditional sauna. So, infrared saunas. don't have all the same benefits as a. traditional hot sauna, something that. maybe goes up to 175, 180 degrees.

Fahrenheit, unless you are staying in that infrared. sauna for like a very long time, perhaps. even twice as long as you would or more. in a traditional sauna. The interesting. thing about infrared saunas, I would. say, um, so a colleague of mine, a. collaborator of mine, Dr. Ashley Mason, she's at UCSF and she's been doing. what's called the heat bed study and. it's an infrared sauna that is. essentially a head out heat bed. So your. whole body is in this infrared sort of.

bed, but your head is out of it. So your. head's not in it. And people um she's. done she's now done a couple of studies. and the most recent study has been done. in people with major depressive. disorder. So they have depression and. these people are are doing an infrared. sauna to a pretty extreme degree. So. she's elevating their core body. temperature by around 2°. So they're. essentially getting in a somewhat. feverish state. And in order to do that,

I mean, these people are in this. infrared sauna for well over an hour. So. not like most people that are doing. infrared saunas. You're probably staying. there for like 20, 30 minutes, right? So. people are getting very very hot to the. po to the point where their core body. temperature is going up to you know. increasing to um like one one and a half. to two degrees right and she's looking. at the effects on depression and so what. she has found is kind of amazing is that.

people that are doing this infrared. sauna this heatbed. and doing cognitive behavioral therapy. CBT. they are experiencing massive. anti-depressant effect. So, there's. something called the Hamilton scale, which is like a battery of tests that. are done to assess depression. And just to give you like um some some. sort of basis of like if you if there's. something considered clinically. significant, then you have like a. three-point change on that scale. Well, essentially this infrared sauna plus the.

cognitive behavioral therapy improved. the Hamilton scale, you know, assessment. by 16 points. And these are people that. did four or eight rounds of it. So it. was over the course of either one month. or two months. Some people just couldn't. finish it because it is pretty intense. Like you're you're heating your body up. quite a lot and you're sitting in this, you know, infrared sauna for over an. hour and it's it's a it's a pretty. intense. But the magnitude of effect on. the antid-depressant effect was it's. it's stunning. And this kind of all.

stems back from her mentor Dr. Dr. Charles Raison his research that um was. essentially like an infrared sauna. So. he did something this was you know back. in 2016 he did this study where he put. people in this sort of infrared sauna. like thing and it it elevated their core. body temperature again by about two two. degrees. There are people with major. depressive disorder or he gave them a. sham control. So it was kind of hot and. people were thinking they were getting. the treatment but it was actually a.

placebo. Okay. It was enough for them to. think they were getting the treatment, but it wasn't ele elevating their core. body temperature enough. And they did. one treatment of this, okay? And he. showed that the people that did one. treatment of this had an anti-depressant. effect that lasted six weeks later after. one treatment. Sham control didn't get. this beautiful study. Um, you know, Ashley kind of followed on that study. and showed multiple sessions of it. really had an even more robust effect. But I say this because I don't want to.

like I don't want to like say infrared. saunas aren't great. However, there's a. lot of benefits that have been related. to more hot traditional types of saunas, finished saunas, for example, traditional saunas that are that are. hotter, right? And so you're staying in. these 175 180°ree sauna for like 20. minutes. And it's associated with, you. know, lower cardiovascular rated. mortality. So if you you're doing it. four to seven times a week um that's. associated with a 60 sorry 50% lower.

cardiovascular related mortality versus. doing it one time a week or all cause. mortality it's associated with 40% lower. all cause mortality versus doing it one. time a week. So. >> what's going on there? >> Right. Exactly what's going on there? And so the the the really fascinating. thing to me about this deliberate heat. exposure from a sauna is that it is sort. of mimicking moderate intensity aerobic. exercise. And this has actually been.

shown, it's been compared head-to-head. to moderate intensity like cycling on a. stationary bike. A lot of the. physiological responses, so your core. body temperature goes up, your heart. rate goes up, right? When you're. exercising, your heart rate goes up. Same thing happens when you're in a hot. sauna. your heart rate goes up, your. cardiac output is increased, right? Your. blood flow is increasing. All these. things are happening and they're very. similar. Exercise, heat stress, you're. sweating, right? To cool down your your. body. So, it's a way of sort of. mimicking this moderate intensity.

exercise that doesn't really happen in. an infrared sauna if you do the same. amount of time as you're doing in a hot. sauna. Now perhaps if you increase that. time it would happen but there's all. these benefits that are happening with. just doing a deliberate heat exposure. from a sauna that. seem to not only sort of mimic. cardiovascular exercise but they add on. to it. So, we were talking about. cardiorespiratory fitness and how. important that is for longevity, right? Where there have been studies that have.

looked at people that exercise on a. stationary bike or they exercise on a. stationary bike and then follow that up. with a 15-minute sauna. And it's been. shown that those people that do the. 15-minute sauna on top of the exercise. have a more a higher improvement in. their cardiorespiratory fitness. They. have more improved um levels of their. their cholesterol and lipids. their. blood pressure improvements were. greater. So there's this additive effect. of adding on the deliberate heat. exposure with the exercise that isn't.

happening with exercise alone. So again, that's sort of just more evidence of. why, you know, doing a deliberate heat. exposure like a sauna. In fact, hot. tubs, that's something that's also been. shown to improve blood pressure. In. fact, a study just came out a couple of. weeks ago showing that a hot tub is very. beneficial for improving blood pressure, for doing all the same things that a. sauna does, which is kind of exciting. because not everyone has a sauna. >> I heard that you sometimes rehearse. important talks and studies in saunas.

>> Yeah. I mean, this started back when I. was in graduate school. Um, I used to go. to this I lived across the street from a. YMCA and I used to go to this sauna and. use the sauna before I would go into my. lab and do experiments. And there's a couple things I noticed. One, I was able to handle stress better. My stress of, you know, failed experiments, mentors. putting all this pressure on me, all. that stuff, right? If I went to the. sauna beforehand, I was very much, it's.

like I was more resilient to the stress. And that was when I started to look into. the effects on the brain. And that's. where I also am very interested in. depression research as well, right? Because you're you're causing like brain. resilience. But um once I started to. realize like this is affecting my mood, this is affecting my ability to handle. stress. I was using the sauna like every. day. I mean I was like religious about. it. It was crazy. I mean it was like six. to seven days a week I was going in that. sauna. And because it was like using it every.

day, you have to multitask. you only. have so much time in the day, right? And. so I'd start rehearsing my. presentations, like going through them. in my mind while I'm sitting in the. sauna with these other people from the. YMCA who probably think I'm crazy. because I'm sitting here like saying. things, but I noticed that I was able to. remember things better if I had gone. through them in my head with the heat. And it wasn't until many, many years. later, I mean, I kept doing that. Like. even sometimes when I travel and I'm. giving a presentation or a talk, I'll. get in the hot bath in my hotel room and.

I'll just lay in the hot bath and I just. go through my talk in my head or I'll. like look at my notes and like if I. forget something I'll go through it in. my head. And it wasn't until several. years later that I started looking into. the science behind that. Like there's. something going on here. What is going. on? And I found that actually when you. go into the sauna, so there's a lot of. physiological changes that happen. Growth hormone goes up. Um, in fact, it. depending on the the temperature and. duration, growth hormone can go up. anywhere between two-fold to like.

16fold, like insane levels of of growth. hormone. But there's something else that. goes up called IGF-2, and that is associated with improving. memory and learning. And so, there have. been animal studies that have done this. And so, I've kind of connected the dots. here and go, maybe that's why. I don't. really know why. I mean, sometimes just. like a very strong emotional response. can sort of help you remember something. >> and you are at the end of the day. causing a very strong stress response. when you're getting in the heat. >> So, I like to use the sauna for a lot of.

things. I do I do it depends on the day. Sometimes I do it I like to do it before. bed. So, I'll do like the hot tub or the. sauna. It improves sleep. It improves my. sleep. And that has to do with the. growth hormone. It has to do with what. are called somnogenic cytoines. These. are inflam inflammatory molecules that. are made that are that cause sleepiness. So if you think about when you're when. you're sick and you have, you know, inflammation going on when you're when. you have an illness, you're very tired, you're sleepy, you're producing a lot of. what are called somnogenic cytoines.

These are cytoines that are invol. inflammation molecules that are involved. in making you sleepy. Those are also. produced when you are undergoing. deliberate heat exposure like a hot tub. or and that's been shown uh as well as a. sauna. So sometimes I like to do the. sauna at night like to relax and help. help my sleep. Sometimes I like to do it. after a workout um to extend my, you. know, my workout like the study I talked. about where you're improving your. cardiory fitness as well. >> Would you like some tea? My team can. make you some tea if you'd like some. tea. >> I would love some loose leaf tea in a. metal cup. >> Why Why don't you want this this tea?

what you're doing here is is tapping. into my sometimes my friends don't want. to talk to me because I'm like the. bearer of bad news, you know, where it's. like what am I what is Rhonda going to. tell me now that I shouldn't be doing. that I love doing, right? Another. obsession of mine of late has been. microlastic exposure. And I know you've. talked about this on the podcast before. and it's it's in it's in the news now. A. lot of people are sort of familiar with. microplastics, right? breakdown of. plastic particles that are tiny uh.

depending on the size and getting into. our circulation. Right. >> And when you think of microplastics, you. think of plastic. When you think of. plastic, you think, "Oh, that plastic. water bottle." Yeah. Well, I'll just. avoid that plastic water bottle, right? What you don't realize is that. everything everything has plastic. So, you have here this to-go coffee cup, which I don't know how many coffees I. and teas I've had in a to-go coffee cup,

but it's hundreds. Hundreds and. hundreds. And the thing that's so. disturbing is I learned that, you know, these many most all of these plastic I. mean, sorry, these um paper looking. coffee cups are actually lined with. plastic. They're lined with a plastic. liner to prevent like the liquid to, you. know, leeching into the paper, right? And that plastic lining when you add. heat to it, i.e. boiling water for tea. or hot coffee, it accelerates the.

breakdown of the plastic lining. So, you're drinking microlastic beverages. and also the chemicals associated with. them. So there was this plastic study. that was done that showed heating up. plastic essentially causes these these. toxic you know plastic associated. chemicals like BPA bisphenol A which is. an endocrine disruptor. It disrupts. hormones. It sort of mimic mimics. estrogen. So you know it's it's. sometimes like called an estrogen.

mimemetic. It causes that to leech into. your beverage 55 times more. >> 55 times. >> 55fold. Yes. >> Which is 5,500%. >> A whole lot. Yes. And so you're talking. about drinking, you know, plastic. chemicals and microplastics. So that was like, okay, well, fine. I'm. going to bring my mug in anytime I'm. traveling and ask them to put my coffee. in that. So I I see so many people with. these to- go, you know, paper cups and. and and they're drinking coffee in it.

And it's like it's so hard for me. because I realize it's like this plastic. soup that you're drinking. Now you have. a tea bag on top of that and that is. something that there have been over the. course of the last seven or eight years. there have been studies that have come. out that these these tea bags are. composed of made of you know there's. plastic polymers in them and so there's. thousands of microplastics that are. released in every milliliter of tea from. these tea bags and there's a variety of.

different tea bags essentially all of. them release microplastics the ones. that's that that look like they won't. release them. So now, while I used to. drink a lot of tea when I'm on the go, I. I bring my own with me. I bring my own. looseleaf tea with a little, you know, one of those little steepers that can. steep the tea. And I use that because. mostly because the heat, you know, it's. just it's accelerating that breakdown. Yes, I'll drink plast I mean, I'll drink. water out of a plastic bottle sometimes.

when I'm traveling because there's no. other options. And actually, there was a. study that just came out. I'm sure you. saw it. Did you see the study that. showed glass had higher levels? So, water that was in glass had higher. levels of microlastic than water that. was in plastic containers. This was a. study that came out of France. >> Oh, come on. >> You didn't see this study? >> No. >> Oh my gosh. This is like everywhere. Everywhere. I mean, it came out, I don't. know, in the last two weeks or so. Um, the study came out of France and it was. essentially showing that glass bottles.

had more microplastics in the liquid. that they contained than plastic bottles. which contain liquid. And you might go, "What? That makes no sense, right? I. mean, why would the glass have plastic. particles at a higher level than a. plastic bottle?". Well, it turns out that the paint on top. of the lid of the glass bottle. has is it has plastic polymers in it. And so the paint is flaking off and.

getting into the water that is contained. in the glass bottle. There is I think a. silver lining here and that is well okay. there might be more microplastics in the. beverages that are in the glass bottle. compared to the plastic bottle but the. size matters. So it was shown that the. size is larger in the glass bottles. compared to the plastic bottles and. >> the size of the plastic. >> the the size of the microplastic. And. there's a reason why this is important. because microlastics and nanoplastics as.

you get smaller in size they get. smaller. They're called nanoplastics. Those are the most dangerous because it. can be more easily absorbed in the gut. and get into the circulation. If it gets. into circulation, it can more easily. bypass the bloodb brain barrier and get. into the brain. Size matters and so the. larger size flaking off from the paint. is less likely to be absorbed by the gut. and to get into circulation. Now, this. has to be shown. I'm sure that's going. to this study is going to be done next.

Like, this is going to be the next. study. It hasn't been shown yet. >> I've heard you talk about fiber as well. playing a role in getting microplastics. out of our body. >> Okay. So, yes. So, fiber is interesting. This all comes from animal studies. And. fiber seems to play a role in the. absorption of microplastics and. nanoplastics in your gut cells. And. that's really important because if you. don't absorb them, it's excreted through. feces, right? And it's been shown we. only absorb about 1 to 2% of these. microplastics that we're ingesting. Fiber, what it does is two things. One,

it moves the microplastics through the. intestines quicker, right? Which is what. fiber does. But I think the more. important thing is the type of fiber. So. you want this fermentable type of fiber, soluble fiber. That's the kind of fiber. that's really good for your gut. microbiome. And what that does is it's. essentially creating this viscous. gel-like sort of gel-like, you know, mucousy stuff inside of your gut that. encapsulates the microplastic so that it.

can't be absorbed by the gut, you know, what are called the gut epithelial. cells. And so if you're essentially not. able to absorb those microplastics, then. they're not getting into circulation. And that's like the biggest thing that. you can do, right? Is is not get them. into circulation. Now, this is all based. on animal evidence. I did speak with. with a microplastics researcher at a. Harvard, Dr. um Carrie Nadal, and she. wasn't even aware of this, and now she's. like on it. So, I'm hoping that there'll.

be some human human evidence coming soon. looking at whether or not microplastics, if you're eating fiber, if that can. basically blunt the absorption of the. microplastics into the system. I think. people that are eating more fiber in. their diet probably are getting less of. that microplastics into their into their. system, but that hasn't been shown in. humans. It's only been shown in animals. >> I'm guessing you don't eat canned soup. either. >> Yes. Yeah. So the canned soup is. interesting. You know, again,

aluminum cans are lined with this. plastic, you know, lining and that. prevents the the sort of breakdown of. the of the the aluminum, right, the. metal. Uh unfortunately it also causes these. chemicals like BPA that are in the. plastic lining to leech into the in this. case the soup or the beverage or the. liquid that they're contained in. Right? There was this study that showed I think. it was was it a th00and% increase of BPA.

after drinking a soup out of a can. versus a soup out of a glass. A. thousand% increase in bisphenol A. levels. I mean that is. >> bisphenol A levels being. >> BPA. >> which is the bad thing in microplastics. >> It's the it's one of the bad chemicals. in plastics that is an endocrine. disruptor. So it's disrupting hormones. and you know that can play a role in a. lot of different things um depending on.

what we're looking at. So it's hugely. important for obviously like. neurodedevelopment in children. So like. pregnant women but even like you know. disrupting disrupting hormones in. general like mimicking estrogen I mean. that's not something that guys want to. do either right so it does it is. something to be aware of but the thing. is is that you know BPA it was this. beautiful marketing strategy that came. out I don't know how many years ago but.

all this BPA was replaced with something. else that wasn't BPA it was BPS and so. now everything is marketed as BPA free. And people think that is like, oh, oh, it's not dangerous. It's BPA free. However, what it's replaced with is. doing the same thing as BPA, if not. worse. And that's been now shown in. multiple studies. So, it's also an. endocrine disruptor. It's doing the same. thing. And yet, people think, you know, that it's it's safe because it's BPA. free. >> Did you hear about this study of people.

that live close to a golf course? >> Yes. Yeah. There's a study that came out, I. don't know how, it was very recent, maybe a month. >> 2025. >> Yeah. So maybe I think it was a couple. months ago, and the study showed that. people that lived near within a mile or. so of golf courses had a much higher. incidence of Parkinson's disease. Right. >> It says 126% higher risk, >> right? Okay. So then why is that? Right. Okay. And this is where I want to get. into the the pesticides issue because.

it's it's known like any scientist. that's done research in neurogenerative. disease. It's one of the ways that you. induce Parkinson's disease in animals is. you give them insect. You give them. essentially a pesticide. So rotinone. being one, paraquat. And what that does. is a mitochondrial toxin. So it's it's. basically causing the mitochondria to. die and then essentially when the. mitochondrias are are dying or.

apoptosing you know the cell under goes. apoptosis and dying. So you're. essentially you can induce Parkinson's. disease in mice by giving them these. types of essentially you know these. types of insecttoides and herbicides. So. it's well known that that can cause you. know Parkinson's disease. It's important. to know that it's mostly the ingestion. of it and not the inhalation of it. And. that was a big concern because it gets. into the water source and that's what's.

thought to be the underlying cause. People that are living close to a golf. course, it's getting into it's. contaminating the water source. essentially. And so people are are. drinking these these you know this. basically these pesticides, insecticides. and herbicides, right? So, um, a water. filter like a reverse osmosis, you know, water filter, something like that that. can filter out some of these molecules, hugely important. And I think that's the. solution to people that are living near. a golf course or people that are living.

near any to sort of agricultural place. where they're using a high volume of. these types of, you know, herbicides. >> What is the most important thing we. haven't talked about that we should have. talked about? run. >> I think we talked a little bit about. magnesium, but I don't know that we. talked enough about magnesium and it is. important because it's something that is. required for. gosh over 300 different enzymes in your. body need it to function properly. So,

it's what's called a co-actor and I. mentioned DNA repair enzymes. So, there's it's also used to make energy. So, you need magnesium to make energy. and to use energy. You need magnesium to. repair damage that's happening all the. time. And close to 50% of the population. in the United States does not have. adequate levels of magnesium because. they're not eating the foods that they. need to to get the magnesium. Dark leafy. greens. I mentioned it's at the center.

of a chlorophyll molecule. There have. been studies that have shown that for. every 100 millgram decrease in magnesium. intake, there's a 24% increase in. pancreatic cancer incidents and that's. in a dose dependent manner. So you keep. going up and up. I think that people. don't realize that they're not getting. enough magnesium. Magnesium is required. to make to turn vitamin D3 into the. steroid hormone. So some people have a. magnesium, you know, insufficient amount.

of magnesium they're taking in and. they're actually not able to make enough. vitamin D into that steroid hormone. Again, magnesium is controlling 300. enzymes. Some of those enzymes are. actually the ones that are converting. vitamin D3 into the steroid hormone. So. magnesium is hugely important. It's. something that can be easily corrected. The deficiency can be easily corrected. by taking a supplement but also eating. more leafy greens which is the best. source of magnesium. The question is.

what do supplements do? What kind of. supplement do you take? How much should. you take? All these things are I think. questions that people are interested in. >> So I've got some magnesium here. Is um. is taking magnesium going to have a. positive role then on my my speed of. aging? >> I do think so. I think so. Yes. We. talked about cancer incidents, right? Magnesium. So, I think magnesium is one. of those sort of minerals that is c when. you when you don't have enough of it, it's causing that insidious damage over.

time that accumulates and then rears its. ugly head, you know, in the fifth, sixth, seventh decade of life. And that. ugly head happens to be cancer. So I do. think that if you are able to avoid. magnesium deficiency and insufficiency, then you are going to be able to. basically make sure there's enough. magnesium around for everything in your. body to use it with with what it needs. it for. So um. >> and I've heard you say that 50% of. people are deficient in the United.

States in magnesium, >> right? Close to 50%. And not to mention, you just talked about, you know, electrolytes. athletes, they actually. require between 10 to 20% more magnesium. than the general population because of. their magnes their magnesium losses are. so great and so they can be even more. deficient. Magnesium is needed for red. blood cells and so you know people can. have lower energy as well. So, magnesium, magnesium is so important for. so many different things. And you know, like I said, I think there I do think. there's a trade-off here where whatever.

magnesium you are getting from your. diet, if you're not getting enough of. it, it's probably going to make energy. instead of being used to repair damage. because you need to make energy every. day, right? That's the most important. thing. If you don't make energy, you. die. Like, you can't survive. So. whatever magnesium your body is getting, it's not going to that process of. repairing DNA, which doesn't really. matter until you're in your, you know, fifth, sixth, seventh decade of life and. cancer, you know, risk increases, right?

And so there's this idea, this put out. by my mentor Dr. Bruce Ames, called. triage theory. And he's shown some. evidence of it. Magnesium is one of them. where magnesium seems to be triaged to. energy production at the expense of. repairing your DNA. >> What does that mean? It means that if. you're not getting enough magnesium. through your dietary intake and you're. not supplementing with it, whatever. magnesium that you're getting, there's. 300 different enzymes that need it to do. their function that your body is finding.

a way to triage it to the most essential. functions that are going to basically. help with short-term survival. >> Triage means it's basically allocating. >> Yes. It's allocating it to the the. processes inside your body that are. essential for short-term survival right. now. >> Long-term health, diseases of aging, like cancer, that doesn't matter as. much, right? >> If you're deficient, >> yeah, your body your body basically. says, "No, I don't I'm not going to give.

whatever precious magnesium I have right. now to prevent cancer because I need to. live long enough to reproduce and pass. on my genes." And cancer doesn't happen. until I'm well well past that. Right? So. this idea, it's called the triage theory. and he's he it's been shown for um. several different micronutrients. Another one is vitamin K. So vitamin K. is really high in dark leafy greens. Well, what Bruce Bruce um has shown is. that vitamin K is important for a couple. of things. One, it's important for blood.

coagulation, blood clotting, and that. all happens in the liver. You activate. proteins in the liver for blood. clotting. If you don't have vitamin K, you can't do that, right? It's it's one. of the reasons why when a baby's first. born, they give it a vitamin K shot so. that they have blood coagulation. >> On your YouTube channel, you made a. video about magnesium, which I recommend. everybody goes and watches if you are. interested in going deeper on this. subject. And um on your YouTube, I found. a stat that said for every 100 milligram. drop in magnesium intake is linked to a.

24% higher risk of pancreatic cancer. >> Yes. >> Which is shocking. It is. And again, it. comes down to the DNA repair enzymes. that are that require magnesium to be. activated. And if over a lifetime, you're part of that 50% of the. population in the United States that. doesn't get enough magnesium, then. you're talking about not being able to. repair damage to your DNA over decades. And essentially what that means is, you.

know, at some point damage happens to. your DNA in the right part of a gene. that is what's called encogenic. it's. cancer-causing and so eventually it's. going to cause cancer if you're not able. to repair that damage, right? And so. getting enough magnesium is important to. make sure you're repairing that damage. And um it's not only important for. cancer, but also all cause mortality. So. there's also studies showing that people. with the highest magnesium levels have a. 40% lower all-c cause mortality than.

people with the lowest magnesium levels. and they have a 50% lower cancer related. mortality compared to people with the. lowest levels. So again, cancer is still. in there and we're seeing that magnesium. intake is very important with respect to. cancer. And that is something that, you. know, people don't realize when they're. not getting enough of magnesium in their. diet, they're not eating their leafy. greens or they're not taking a. supplement that they're sort of. affecting their long-term risk of. cancer. So people with high magnesium.

levels have a 50% lower risk of cancer. death than those with low levels, >> right? >> H and is that you you obviously can't do. like a double blind placebo control test. on that. So they're they're really. establishing causation. So it could be. other things like it could be the other. dietary factors that go into go into. that. Maybe if we think about causation, people that eat a lot of hamburgers. don't have a lot of like leafy greens.

>> Exactly. You nailed it. Um, essentially, magnesium is packaged in these foods. that are beneficial like dark leafy. greens. And there's so many other. benefits along with them that you can't. establish causation and say, "Aha, it's. just the magnesium." I would argue it's. probably not just the magnesium, but. magnesium does play an important role. It's just you can't of course pinpoint. it to just magnesium because you're. right there are many other important. healthy things in these micronutri in. these plants that are beneficial for.

health as well. >> There was a really random thing that I. think parents might appreciate us. talking about which was when I was. looking at your work you mentioned this. chemical that if parents take while. their baby is inside them mothers take. the baby is smarter. >> Yes. Choline. >> Choline. >> Choline. Yeah, choline is an essential. nutrient that is it's really. concentrated in egg yolk. That's a. really good source of choline, but it's.

important for. it's a precursor for the. neurotransmitter acetylcholine. It's also important for producing all. these epigenetic changes called. methylation that regulates the way our. genes are expressed. And it's also um. very important for our cells like the. membranes of our cells and it it makes. something called phosphotidyl choline. It's doing so many things is the point. I'm getting to. I don't want to get into. all this nitty-gritty because people can. get lost in that. But the point is that.

peg women that were given like the RDA. close to the RDA it was like 500. >> What's the RDA? the recommended daily. allowance. Actually, I think in this. case it was the DRRI, the the dietary. recommended intake. So, pregnant women. were were given close to what is the. dietary recommended intake. So, they. were given 480 milligrams a day of. choline or they were given almost double. that. So, they were given 930. milligrams a day. And I don't remember.

what trimester uh they started in but. they were given this you know throughout. a certain time frame and during. pregnancy and then a variety of. cognitive tests were done after the. child was born. And the children that. were given the mothers that had children. that were given the really high choline. intake the 930 milligrams scored better. on all these IQ tests. And so. essentially their children were smarter. if they if they if their mother had. taken choline throughout pregnancy. And. I think this is really interesting.

because it's the one easy thing that. people can do. They can supplement with. choline andor they can eat a lot of eggs. with egg yolk which is something I I did. both during pregnancy. I was eating. probably like six eggs a day and. supplementing with choline. So I was. doing both. And um every mo every mother. wants to think or every parent wants to. think that their child is smart. But. >> I bet your child is smart. >> He's a smart cookie. Yeah. >> How old is he now? Almost 10. >> Seven. >> Seven. Okay. We have a closing tradition. on this podcast where the last guest.

leaves a question for the next guest not. knowing who they're leaving it for. And. the question left for you. Interesting. If you could go back and change one. thing about your life, what would it be? And you cannot say nothing. That's what. it says. >> I would say the one thing that I would. change, I'm 47 years old, just turned 47. last month. I have one child.

And I think if I could go back in time, I would change my decision to only have. one child and I would have another. child. >> Why? Because. I love being a mother. I love the joy. that children bring. to your life is it's unexplainable until. you experience it. Everything about it,

helping shape them, learning with them, going through hard times and. experiences, but also experiencing the. joys. I regret sort of you know I had children. later in life because I was really. pursuing my career and. it is definitely challenging being an. entrepreneur that's a mother. I made a. decision that I was going to have one.

child because I wouldn't be able to do. as much of what I love doing outside of. being a mother if I had more than one. child. And now I realize that say that. when I'm older and closer to dying, I know now that. I'm not going to think about doing one. more podcast when I'm on my deathbed. I'm going to think about all the. experiences I've had with my family. And. I do I do have a pretty balanced I would. say balanced personal life and family.

life with my career. I don't know that it was the easiest. decision to make where I had to sort of. give up some of my intellectual pursuit, some of my entrepreneurial my. productivity essentially. I had to give some of that up to to to. be the best mother that I wanted to be. to be present with my husband and my my. son and enjoy everything that I enjoy. because that takes time. and that time. that I'm with them, I am not doing my.

podcasting or my research or any of. that, right? And I'm happy with that. decision. And in fact, I would even give. up more of it for another child. Um, and. that's a very personal thing that I'm. discussing. So hopefully. I'll be okay with it. >> It's not the first time I've heard this. >> Really? >> Yeah. No. Yeah, it's not the first time. I I hear this a lot which is fascinating. to me from from high performance women.

>> It is it's you know. I say that it's very hard to be a very. high performing female and mother at the. same time. Uh you either have to. sacrifice being present with your family. or your health because you don't sleep. as much. uate, you know, you're you're. basically. not going to be getting as much sleep. because you're going to be working. rather than sleeping during some of the. those hours, right? So, I do I do think.

that it is very challenging and I'm not. saying that um there aren't really high. performing mothers out there, but it is. it is a very difficult thing to do. >> When you say you you made the choice to. have one, was that an intentional. choice? I you and your partner did. family planning and said we want one or. was it because you said your child is. seven you said you're 47 so at 40. obviously it's it's becomes a little bit. more tricky than it than it does when. your 30s to conceive.

>> right so I think what in in my case um I. I got pregnant when I was 38 for the. first time and I gave birth when I was. 39. >> so I was pretty late already. >> and at that point. I didn't you know as I It was I was so. overwhelmed and my productivity had gone. down so much just from that event. >> that I was worried that I wouldn't be. able to keep it up if I did another one. right away, which I had to do because I.

had waited so long. Now, why did I wait. so long? I was pursuing my career, you. know? I mean, and I would argue now that. I could have had a kid in graduate. school. I could have had a child as a. post-doal fellow, but again, it's one of. those things where you just you keep you. want to like get through this milestone. and then this milestone and then you. want everything to be perfect and you. start to like this perfectionism can. sometimes be a double-edged sword, right? Yeah. >> Where your perfectionism then is like, okay, well, you're you're going to have. a trade-off here. Yeah.

>> And that trade-off for me was my. reproductive lifespan. You know, I'm I. was older when I started having. children. know there's a lot of. technologies out there now that can help. with that but at you know 47 it's I. would say not looking good. >> Uh I think I ask about this and I'm. curious about this because me and my. partner I'm 32. She's turned 33 last. week. We don't have any kids. We've been. together for almost seven years now I. think. And so you can imagine in my life. how easy it would be to make excuses. that I need to get through this year.

because this big thing's happening or. I'm moving to LA so now's not the right. time. And then she's got her business. going on so now is not the right time. for her and she's traveling and doing. these retreats around the world so. that's not perfect timing. And then. because of this podcast, I've played the. scenario forward because I get to meet. people who are a little bit further down. the line than me. And I get to ask them. about their regrets and the decisions. they wish they'd made and were they. intentional about fat family planning, did they wish they'd done it earlier? And the thing it's changed in me is it's. made me realize that to start the. process, if it's something I want to do.

well before I'm ready because there is a. there whether we like it or not, there. is a biological clock. And the thing. that I've observed in the guests, specifically high performance women, whether you Ronda Rousey, the UFC. champion, who I sat and interviewed and. who was in tears talking about her. failed IVF for the I don't know the. fifth, sixth, seventh time, or other. women that have sat here and interviewed. and looked in their faces is the regret. of having that decision taken taken away.

from you is going to be much much worse. than. the inconvenience. of the choosing an imperfect time to. have the kid. So, funnily enough, I w I. don't people don't really know this cuz. I don't talk about this, but I walked. away from this podcast a couple just. after hearing this story over and over. again and I went to the women in my. lives and I was like, it's like super. annoying being that guy cuz especially. as a guy saying it, I'm like, by the. way, family planning as early as. possible is probably a good idea. and.

whether that means freezing your eggs or. freezing your embryos or just giving. yourself the option in the future um is. probably a good idea. And it was so. interesting to actually see the reaction. to me saying that to some of the women. in my life that I care about like my, you know, my siblings or my partner. because upon saying it, it wasn't. incredibly wellreceived because. I think it's a confronting thing to say. to somebody. because there's a bit of a stigma. associated with like freezing your eggs.

and IVF and freezing your MBOS's. And. even with my partner, the first time I. said it to her, it was it was almost as. if I was like insulting a little bit, insulting her. That's almost the the how. I thought she took it for the first. three or four minutes. But then when I. explained what I was saying by like give. let's give ourselves the option when. we're older, you know, if you know, let's just give ourselves the option. And also, if you go through these. procedures when you're younger, you have. higher quality yield from the eggs you. freeze or the embryos you freeze. Let's.

just give ourselves the option. And then. she kind of turned 5 minutes into the. conversation and then she got super. excited about it like 15 minutes in and. now we're like super excited. So like. we're we're trying to conceive but also. we're going to be freezing our eggs and. freezing embryos in this year in. September because and I've just tried to. be a really big influence to the women. in my life to like give yourself the. option. And I say this because I've seen. the regret on this podcast and that's. what I'm saying. And I think all I think. all people that can and I know it's. expensive as early as you can should.

consider the fact that we live in a. world that is driving productivity that. is making us work later and later in. life that is making us more obsessed. with our careers and without us really. knowing it there is a clock and it's. robbing us of the option to make family. planning decisions. >> 100% agree. I I can't I can't agree. more. Exclamation exclamation everything. you just said. I mean, if I had frozen. my eggs or we had done, you know, IVF. and frozen embryos that were viable and. healthy, then we'd have the option,

right? I mean, it's it's it's it's so. true. And I don't know. I think I think. I was just really blinded by and. overwhelmed by, you know, how much work. I have to do and thinking, "Oh, there's. no way I could do more than one.". Because, again, I when I'm a mother, I. go all in. >> Yeah. >> When I'm a podcaster, I go all in. That's exactly, >> you know, it's not just, you know, when. I have a guest on, like I really like I. need to like be really interested in. them and, you know, so there's it's all.

in, but not giving myself that option is. a big regret, you know, where at least. if I had frozen my eggs down, then I. would be at a point now this if I had. done this, you know, when I was 39 or 40. or even if I had done it the first time, you know, when I was earlier in my 30s, I should have done that, you know, but. um I just didn't have the foresight. enough to to do that and I and I do. regret it. So, it's great. It's great. that you talk about it to the the women. you that are in your life and even on.

the podcast. >> We're really bad at forecasting the fact. that we will change. this. And I think this is like really at. the heart of it. Like we're really bad. at forecasting the fact that our current. state of mind might not be our future. state of mind. But you've only got to. look backwards in your life and realize. how different you are and how you think. and what your priorities were. I was in. nightclubs at 18 and 19. I there's. nothing for me going to a nightclub now. be like a form of like it'd be like. waterboarding me. It'd be like torture. I changed and so at like 35 at 40 45.

there's a high probability that I'm. going to have a different perspective. than the one I have now. So give myself. the option at 45 to like you. know so that's kind of how I think about. it and I say this out publicly because I. just think I don't like I don't like. seeing that regret in people. >> It's hard. Yeah, it it's definitely. hard. Thankfully, I do have this joy in. my life and I'm so glad I have that. But, >> and I have to acknowledge the fact that. many people even if they did want the. option for fertility reasons can't have. children. So, um it's not still not an.

option for everybody because there are, you know, people have certain health. complications and um other issues which. prevent them from having kids even if. they wanted to and even if they're young. and I've got friends in my life that. unfortunately are in that situation. But. yeah, thank you so much for the work. that you do. It's um it's really really. important work in part because you're so. unbelievably engaging, but you're so. because of your obsession, you're so. unbelievably rigorous and in the detail. of the things you talk about. And as you. said, there's so many people around the.

world, and I know because we we meet. them wherever we go in the world that. don't have access to this information. like they're not going to be on PubMed. reading through the journals and trying. to distill these big words. And I think. you do a brilliant job of educating many. many millions of people in every corner. of the world through your YouTube. channel and your Instagram etc. and um. making these like complicated things. accessible and if if if you're. successful in that which you very much. are you're you're tilting the trajectory. of their life but also therefore their. future and their kids' lives and their. kids' kids' lives and um and that's a. really wonderful thing and we need more.

public educators like you that have the. talent of articulation and engagement. that you do. There's they're very very. rare and hard to come by. I do a podcast. where I look at all these people and. you're like the very very best at it and. you've done it for so unbelievably long. and that's why. So, thank you so much. for educating us and allowing us to live. the future that uh that'll be most. conducive with our health and happiness. >> Well, thank you so much Stephen for the. really engaging conversation and for. asking the hard questions. >> Thank you. This has always blown my mind a little. bit. 53% of you that listen to the show.

regularly haven't yet subscribed to the. show. So, could I ask you for a favor? If you like the show and you like what. we do here and you want to support us, the free simple way that you can do just. that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is if you do. that, then I'll do everything in my. power, me and my team, to make sure that. this show is better for you every single. week. We'll listen to your feedback. We'll find the guests that you want me. to speak to, and we'll continue to do. what we do. Thank you so much. [Music]. Heat. Heat. N.

[Music]. [Music].