A Billionaire’s Guide To Healing Your Mind And Extending Your Life: Christian Angermayer | E72

But I do personally think it's the best. thing I've ever done in my whole life. Full stop. And I was like, look, you're. clearly insane. Like I'm I've never. drank alcohol. And I'm not going to. touch an illegal drug. But the biggest. interference is death. It's not my I. don't choose the time. I don't choose. like and we need to change that. My guest today is a friend, but he's. also. most definitely the most interesting.

human being I have ever encountered in. my life. He's an entrepreneur. He's an. investor, but he's also just a really. nice guy. And he's invested and started. companies in some of the most. fascinating industries from psychedelics. to space tech to artificial intelligence. to cryptocurrencies to fintech. You name. it, he's in there. In fact, he's the. single biggest investor slashd driving. force behind the whole psychedelics. industry which is currently trying to. cure mental health disorders. This is.

undoubtedly the most interesting person. I know and I think this is the type of. podcast where you're going to demand a. part two because we spoke for 2 hours. and even I was left feeling that I was. only scratching the surface and that I. wanted to know more. The man I'm talking. about is Christian Anamaya. And I. genuinely believe he's going to become, if he isn't already, one of Europe's. most important investors and. entrepreneurs. In the same way that. people praise Elon Musk for all the work. he's done in the US, I think he's. Europe's answer to Elon Musk. Without.

further ado, I'm Steven Butler and this. is the D of a CEO. I hope nobody's. listening, but if you are, then please. keep this to yourself. Christian, I I know so much about you. and the work you do. I I know your, you. know, I've observed your behavior in. person over the last, you know, six 6 to. 12 months. Um, deeply deeply. fascinating. But the part of you that I. know very very little about is your.

early years, your upbringing, your. childhood. Cute child. Really? I I've been fascinated by. I think it was a cute child. I've only heard slithers of that part of. your life. So could you tell me a little. bit more about. the childhood that made the man? The the main point I'm always making. which I'm really literally happy about. is that I was a very very happy child. Meaning I'm still a very happy person. But I think the reason why I'm. groundedly happy is because I had a. great like how do you say um childlike.

upbringing like I was growing up in a 90. people village. Um, so. Bavaria in Bavaria. in Bavaria I literally knew everybody. then there were a lot of other children. so I'm an only child but like I had a. lot of children sort of same age plus -. 4 years to to grow up with um and we. were literally like in a TV series we. were out all day like in summer in. winter like it was very much like you. would picture like what is these. American TV series where they might they. own on a farm or whatever like it was.

like that like sort of um. idyllic childhood. really idyllic like yeah no crime like. no risk like I was literally my mom sent. me out in the morning uh in summer. winter and I came back in the evening. since I'm like five like I was because. there was no risk for anything like. um yeah so that was sort of the very. very this was till I'm 9 and then we. moved to a town mini city town with like. 2,000 people so it's nearby like kil.

kilometer apart um so it was all very. very rural very which I liked. So I'm. actually was thinking about if I have. children or when I have children then. how to recreate that which I think won't. work. So, but like I think it's great to. have nature which is also by the way I. mean already jumping but like yeah. because you know that I do a lot in in. mental health work like and one thing. which is really healthy very very simple. for your mental health is nature like. there is even in Japan they prescribe.

like a walk in the forest as a as a. treatment for depression. So anyway, so. I grew up in these super nice childhood. Like I always was funnily um very. entrepreneurial. Yeah. And nobody else. is. So not in my family, not in this. village. Like so that was always. literally like with six. My mom still. has the So the first thing which I did. when I learned writing was writing. invoices like so tiny bills like oh give.

me five give me five cent for for. salads. So I was actually had a very. flourishing gardening business. So since I'm four like five. how's it going? Sorry wrong English term. So. psychedelics. No, I I stopped it later on when I was. 12. I was like, "No, but this how I. started my first business." But my mom. still remembers that the first thing I. did with my writing skills was writing. her an invoice for salad and everything.

And then I was literally like in a. movie. It's very stereotype, but I was. selling um lemonade to neighbors. Then I was selling lollipops in school. I was selling literally everything. Like. I made a business out of everything. So. I I remember when I went to the my first. cinema um ever uh I think I was like. seven. Um then I was so fascinated that. people are buying for something which is. apparently also on TV. They didn't get. the difference. So then I started.

charging my parents at home when they. wanted to switch on the TV because I was. pretending I was running a cinema. So uh yeah. So every literally. everything I was doing I saw through the. lens of a business. and and when you look at your children. my parents were deeply worried in a nice. way but they were worried. They always tend to be with with kids. that are slightly different. but they they Exactly. I Yeah. So I look. like them. So the discussion if they. maybe not my parents was early off the. table. Yeah. But like sort of from the. way how I see the world and I'm very.

different. What were the factors, the sort of macro. factors at play that were making you. into this entrepreneur at that age, but. also the entrepreneur you came to. become? It was always there. Like I. sometimes I think for myself, I think. because my parents were never around, they create this big sort of void of. freedom and independence, which I. thought made this connection in my mind. that if I was going to get something, it. came from my behavior. I'm thinking. about those factors. that, you know, freedom. You said, you. know, I've heard you say that your. parents were very keen for you just to. be happy.

Yeah, exactly. like they were always. like I can be whatever I want. So, but. it was not that I don't I don't know if. that automatically leads to. entrepreneurship. It could also have led. to me being an artist or whatever. Like. I don't think there is a connection. between freedom. It's actually the. freedom to be whatever you want. And. then I think maybe you maybe it's. genetic. Maybe it's like I don't know. like u I this is the the point meaning. it was always there. There is not there. is not a moment I can think of where I. sort of. changed but it was literally since I can.

think since I'm four five six like very. very early it was always there to make a. business out of everything in a nice way. hopefully. that coupled with some kind of innate. curiosity which is you Peter the said. when he did did a quote about you in. sifted he said that curiosity is one of. your real sort of. Yeah but I don't I just thinking if that. was that early visible I loved school. which I think I was a very nerdy child. as well. So I yeah I um I loved actually. I did love school for and even meaning.

now more talking than later high school. for the one reason and even if I look. back now I really miss it a bit because. it was the only time in life where you. do something for the pure reason of. learning something with no material sort. of meaning I turned that then also in a. business because I started my my this. was my first real business was when I. started a tutoring business when I was. 14. Um and then I um. what was that business? Tell me. Tutoring like like giving sort of other.

kids. Yeah. Because I was extremely good. in school. So I was always the best one. in my school but I was practically. always the best one in like the Bavaria. or whatever. Like top 10. Yeah. And I. was always I like to explain stuff. So. So I think I think that still helps me. now because it's part of fundraising to. explain complex sort of things to. people. Anyway, so I liked I I did like. to explain stuff and I did like to um. and I I was good in the matter. So So I.

started tutoring. Then there was this. tiny thing I I think a bit that because. the teachers very much liked me because. I was always like uh the good child like. everybody who came to me automatically. became a little bit better because. teachers were treating these children. more nicer because they were coming to. me. So it became this sort of um. positive virtual circle that more and. more parents were like oh god we have to. send our children to Christian because. it really works and I think. and what were you doing for these kids? Well, tutoring like how. teaching them the same thing the same.

thing because they were these were the. the ones who didn't perform well. How. you call it English? Tutoring, right? Yeah. Yeah. Too. And they were your. peers. They were the same age. Same age or younger? No. Or younger. Like it was mainly like a little bit. younger. Like one or two years, but not. a lot younger. So anyway, and then I was like after. half a year I was so like full. Like I. think I worked like. 10 15 hours a week uh practically all. the time. like it was tutoring like and. then I was like how do I really scaled. it up and it sounds now very um I don't.

know very banal yeah but for me this was. like the first time I really thought. about business like in an. entrepreneurial way how do you scale it. up and practically I realized I have the. brand because parents want to send their. children to me um so I was employing. other uh other pupils my same age or. even a little bit older and said you can. teach under my brand and you get half of. it and I get half of it. So 50% margin. and I started employing and I. continuously till my final grade had.

like. 10 people like always employed. Yeah. Who were tutoring other children. Yeah. So it was a very lucrative. business. Um meaning for for a child. like but. it's crazy. Absolutely crazy. And then so you get to 16, you get to 18. in that period of your life. I hear that. in Bavaria they have this like public. service you've got to do for a year. Yeah. I just was thinking like how. compliant do I have to be because then. it's all I think what is it called when. it's out of time is back like nobody. nobody can claw it back like because.

what happened is like I was always. extremely libertarian. and in we had back then it changed in. Germany but we had back then like the. Israelis have still you had to go to the. military for a year and I think in. generally this is wrong not because I'm. against the military but I think you can. employ people this is a job like people. would should want to be a soldier or. should want to be something else. But I. I think as a government meaning I in. general you think the less government. the better. So I I was thinking. hopefully this comes across charm but.

because I was thinking all the time how. to avoid it. Unfortunately I was not. daring enough back then. There were. tricks to do it like you could have had. said you're sort of mentally ill or. whatever like I was not brave enough to. go on with that. So I I decided to do um. you can you could also opt to do civil. servant. I s civil servant like to go to. a hospital or whatever. So and I tried. to be really nice. So I picked a job. which I knew is it didn't really require.

me. It was more like okay you had to put. these children who didn't want to go to. the military. You could say you're. pacifist. You had to put them somewhere. It was not that somebody was dependent. on me. So I was sitting in that hospital. and my only job was to bring stuff from. A to B like whatever. So then I made an. I remember that I made um um how do you. say a proposal that if we reorganize. everything in the hospital I could do my. job in an hour and then go home. Yeah. So this was I was 18 and then they were.

like okay this is crazy like it's not. really really uh popular. Um, so and. then I made a decision that I'm not. really going to show up anymore. Um and. the only way to do that was to um to get. always like doctors to give me like um. letter. a letter and so now comes but the. important point because like till that. time I um I was extremely like I loved. learning so I was actually thinking I'm.

going to if if I would have gone and I. think this is sometimes how crazy stuff. happens and then it changes sort of the. whole course of your whole life. practically. So I think if if I would. have gone from high school to. university, I I would would have just. been in that sort of mode like of. learning being extremely good. So I. guess I would have just went on with. what I was doing like meaning producing. great academic outcome so to say. So. then came this one year which I was.

completely bored. So I I got these. doctors um writing me letters that I. didn't need to show up but in return I. started managing money for them because. I was already speculating on the stock. market since I was like 15 16 and I was. not bad in it. So I became friends with. all of these doctors even in the. hospital I was working and they were all. like well we help you if you help us. because this was the early days of the. or not you know like this was 1998. 1999 like this was the stock market boom.

whatever. So everybody wanted to be in. it. So this was sort of my trade-off for. these letters. Um and so and I can't be I'm I'm easily. bored. So I always want to do something. So practically because so I was not the. type of person who was okay I have a. free year now and I'm going just. partying like I was like okay I have a. free year now I'm going to do more. tutoring. Yeah. And I'm going to do. managing money for these doctors. Yeah. And sort of that completely switched my.

how do you say course like so I wasn't. this I actually wrote the book yeah and. tried to sell that this didn't work out. but I did a lot of entrepreneurial stuff. just because I had time. Yeah. And then. when I practically went to uni then a. year later I was sort of mentally not. anymore in that sort of learning world. I was in the okay I want to be an. entrepreneur world. And then I was and. this sort of when I met we met uh. actually two guys who finally were my.

tutors in a scholarship I had had during. high school already like for sounds. awkward but for highly gifted children. Yeah. So I was sort of in summer. summer school that was the university. this where I knew them from. We rem kind. of and they were telling me about this. idea and it just sounded great and they. were like my tutors in terms of I was. like okay these guys are the pinnacle of. biotech. Um and then I I was the one. let's do a company together and u we did.

and this worked out really well and then. I dropped out of uni. So this how I. think this how was this sort of I think. without this one year in hospital or. sort of one year in hospital not in. hospital. Yeah. I would have stayed in a. completely different path. I hear you talk a lot about you believe. in like the serendipity. and spirituality which almost seems. surprising because you're such like a. scientific person whereas you do you do. believe that things happen at the right. time. Totally totally actually I'm actually.

very extreme with that. So I everything. which has happening literally everything. this conversation today. well this conversation happens because. we planned it yeah but like the fact for. example that we met originally yeah why. mutual friend whatever so I'm always. everything which is happening to me. which I didn't actively say hey I need. to have a meeting like which is not in. my usual. rhythm yeah I always think a it's. happening for a reason and also it's. happening for a good reason even bad.

stuff I believe even this power of. positive thinking but like more like. people always then say ah this means. like if you wake up in the morning. you're if you feel great it's going to. be a great day I think it's more deeper. I believe in this what there is this. great book law of attraction like. whatever you sort of think and rather. how you think not just meaning sort of. the essence what you think not like the. detail partly but more the essence and. if you expect sort of good stuff to. happen you're sort of attracting that. yeah. you think there's a do you think there's. a spiritual force that attracts it or do.

you your intention moves you in that. direction. So, look, I'm very pragmatic, meaning I. I mean, first of all, I dare to talk. about this stuff because I'm very also. scientific. So, I'm like, look, nobody. will think I'm crazy. Yeah. Uh, maybe a. bit. No, no, I'm joking. Like, so, but. the other thing is like there are. multiple explanations and I don't really. care about the explanation. You can have. a very spiritual explanation. Yeah. It's. the force of the universe. Yeah. And. then you can have a very pragmatic. explanation that if you continuously. expect positive stuff, then you look out.

for that stuff and then it's more like a. a numbers game or like a Yeah. But and I. don't care like it it works tremendously. well for me since I'm 16. Yeah. And I. had these I had some very crazy things. which go borderline which you could. explain like sort of with statistics or. whatever. Yeah. Um, so maybe too crazy. on the show for that, but but like but. there were some there were some things. where I tend to believe in the spiritual.

explanation. Yeah, because they were. Yeah, I think harder to explain or you. can always explain it with statistic. like you know what I mean like but I. don't care like it does work. tremendously well for me. Okay, so going back to this company you. founded with these two your two sort of. like university mentors. This company. went on to be really successful. I think. you said it's worth probably about 15. billion at last check market cap. today but like I sold very early but. very early I sold when we went public.

for a billion so it was it was one it. was actually pun. do you regret selling. well there's there's a short and long. answer no because like the short answer. is no because like a that money was the. basis for the rest yeah b also people. always mix up market cap and share price. so meaning I sold at the lower share. price that it's today but the share. price is not 15x X because they did. capital increases, there was dilutive. stuff like so, so anyway, long story, it. was an amazing start. Yeah. So, um,

yeah, it was actually the quickest. biotech IPO I think in Germany ever. Uh, we IPOed 3 years, three and a half years. later after foundation. and for a billion. So, it was was. everything. Um, and it was sort of I. dropped out of university before, but it. like was the sort of sort of. catalyst. catalyst I would say. Yeah. So, I I. don't regret that. And uh and since then. sort of I'm investing and being an. entrepreneur. I'm somewhat in between. I. would say I actually sorry when I'm. jumping I had this one story again by.

the way which is completely you can. serendipitous. serendipitous and like even a little bit. more. So I remember it exactly. I was 14. years old and I was uh with my best. friends back then in Munich which is far. away. I mean for me this was like going. going to the big street like um and we. so we spent the weekend with family. members. I mean I really I remember. remember every single detail of the. weekend like what we did and like where. what and we went to a bookstore which is.

for Germans who listen hook and dub is a. back then was like sort of like a I. don't know iconic bookstore 100 years. old in Munich I think it's still even. there although books are dying out um. smaller um so it's in the prime location. of Munich and so I remember it so I go. into that bookstore and there was these. whole how I say promot ocean. wall. Yeah. With just one book. which uh which which is uh the American.

Think and Grow Rich from Napoleon Hill. And do you know like when in movies like. the 14-year-old boy goes in and then the. light is coming down and then the. Hallelujah is coming. Sort of that. meaning there was no music, there was no. light. I was like that's it. Think and. grow rich. I need to have that book. So. I bought the book and it was practically. my first kind of I mean Napoleon Hill is. not as spiritual as some others. Yeah. But like that was my journey into that. world of let's say spiritual infused.

success. books. How do you define spiritual? Well there is like Napoleon Hill is sort. of and I love it by the way because. they're all so old like they're all out. of the 1920s. So they they don't have. the zeitgeist which I think in terms of. success is rather negative like so it's. sort of like raw American. horny principles. Yes. Uh exactly like um and Napoleon. Hill has this why he was a great entry. into that thing because his view was if.

you read many of the book starts that he. says he got commissioned by um Andrew. Carnegie who was the steel magnet to. find out and do interviews which I think. by the way you are doing in a certain. way. Yeah. With successful people um and. find out if there are common traits uh. you say traits yeah common denominators. which make them successful. And he did. that with all the famous people of his. time from Andrew Carnegie himself to a. lot of other famous people. And then he.

made that into the book and he's. actually saying that. the question he doesn't answer the. question why these uh rules so to say. work. He's more a neutral observer. And. then the next one is actually there's a. guy called Dr. Joseph Murphy who wrote. similar books but more like with the. spiritual undertone why these rules. work. same rules sort of more. explanation why they work which went. more into the religious world and then. you have all the other book and law of. attraction is nothing else which is sort. of the modern version and the key which.

is a sort of a simplified version of an. anyway simplified version yeah of this. stuff like but it's at the end it's. always the same rules some which think. it's they are god-given some which say. look again this is statistics whatever. but they do work I I deeply believe and. these things do. Yeah. Um which is. like visualization the the way you. think. It's visualization is that the the main. thing I think is two things is. visualization. So I meditate in the.

morning and the evening but it's not. real meditation. It's more like. visualization. So I ex I always have a. plan for the week for the months for the. year for my life. Yeah. And everything. kind of did come true so far. So I'm. always thinking what could I add like a. wish list. Yeah. And now again you can. say if you add something and then you. you focused on it it might come true. because you focused on it. There could. be a very banal explanation that it's. relentless execution and nothing magic. and again I don't care. It's like I'm. like well like yeah it does work. So and.

the visual I think it's the two things. It's visualization and it's also these. that you have for example I'm not it. sounds very crazy but I'm trying to not. have negative thoughts. So, and then. there is a number of negative thoughts. you're going to have anyway because you. have to deal with stuff when you run a. business. But I, for example, I have. never watched a horror movie since 20. years at least because it gives me. negativity. So I and I I go the extra. mile. So I told for example friends when. they are too much complaining meaning.

I'm and the first one friends can call. for a problem but then I'm like let's go. through the problem. That's the. solution. That's what you're going to. do. But if they would repeatedly because. some people want to not solve the. problem. They want to repeat the. problem. Then I'm like, you can't call. me again on that topic because no. negativity. Yeah. So I really have a. rule. Yeah. So no negative movies. I. never watch a movie which has no a happy. ending. So I have people check or I. check. Yeah. Before does it have a happy. ending? No bad endings. Nothing which. makes me sad. Nothing which makes me.

negative. because I'm not I'm not. allowed in my own religious philosophy. to have negative thoughts and feelings. Feelings are even more important than. thoughts because I think they are the. underlying driver. So, and it sounds now. maybe cheesy and simplified, but I think. if you this is what I'm doing since I'm. 14 and if you train yourself not and. again you will always have an sort of. amount because sometimes hard things. happen. Yeah. And I don't want to. pretend as if my life was easy because I. did have very hard times in business.

But even in those times I was lying in. my bed literally and was like okay this. is not fun what's happening right now. but it must happen for a very very. positive reason because this is how your. world works and funnily it always the. worst things in my life turned into the. best ones. Yeah. So because I again and. you can say now maybe somebody would say. well because he was persistent and he. didn't fall. Okay then this is the. explanation. Maybe there's a deeper one.

I don't again I don't care. I can always. come to but I would tell everybody the. two things emotionally is like don't. have negative thoughts. Just focus on. positive sort of thoughts. Visualize. these are the key things. Be happy. so. many things that you know. and dare to be happy because most people. are again don't allow themselves to be. happy and even think it's a little bit. negative. So there's this whole thing. happening on Instagram that I want to. come back to this point about this. movies and cuz I think it's very much. linked to your whole thing about alcohol. and stuff. This this happiness.

equilibrium you talk about, but just. quickly on that point of being really. positive and unapologetically positive. and saying, "Listen, don't call me with. the same problem twice. Don't interrupt. my positivity." There's this whole. movement happening on Instagram at the. moment where there's such a thing as. being toxic positive. It's called. [ __ ] Like no. And I like getting on. this point like because that's one thing. I think I meaning again maybe so I have. to so maybe I'm sitting there I'm. already so old that there is another. generation I'm thinking about the other.

generation and because I'm reading a lot. like very old stuff and you find soc. complaining about the youth. So maybe. that's a recurring thing. Yeah. But I. really think part part of the millennial. culture of these victimization and. always like blah is this is so wrong. This is so wrong. Yeah. So to pretake a. question because then normally we say. well you saying that because you're. rich, you're white. Yeah. So I was like. okay this is maybe a point. Let's go.

back because I didn't talk a lot about. it but I'm happy it's already like. I grew up in these 90 people village. Yeah. I'm gay. I'm actually happily gay, but I look meaning I know I'm I'm gay. since I'm 11ish round about. So, and I. was looking at sort of that world I was. growing up in and I was like that's not. going to resonate here. Yeah. So, seriously like and that's very very uh. very uh positive phrased. Yeah. So, in. my school people were saying let's beat. up gay people and I was like that's not. going to end well. So, but I didn't.

think that is anything bad by the way. I. didn't even think these people were sort. of wrong and obviously they were wrong. but I was like they don't know better. I'm not like ah these are bad people. I. was just like be pragmatic. Sometimes. life is not fair. Sometimes life is not. nice but you can decide if you react on. it. That's one of the other points I. really believe in that you have these. tiny millisecond in life on everything. If somebody is sort of rude to you, if. somebody says something very bad and you. can decide if you hurt or not. It's your.

decision by the way. Nothing's gonna. hurt you if you decide you're not going. to be hurt. Yeah. So, and I was like, they don't know better and I can't by. the way. And by the way, gay is not what. defines me. So, I was like, well, then. I'm I'm not gay for a while till I'm out. of here. Yeah. I can't because there are. other things which define me like. friends like you know like you know what. I mean? Like it's not that I reduced. myself to this one thing and was like. and now I need to shout it out to the. world and in return would have get. beaten up. Like I was like just like. just don't do it like but don't blame.

the others. Yeah. And then move away. somewhere. Also I I mean this whole like. don't try to change everybody else. Work. on yourself and like and your. environment what you can change. Like I. could have started like oh my god my. life is miserable and I'm growing up in. this village and blah blah blah. And. actually talk about serendipity. I'm I'm. honestly I'm but again I'm trained to. see the positive stuff. If I look back, if I would have been straight, I. wouldn't sit here for a very simple. reason because I would have dated every.

single free minute I would have had like. Yeah. and would have enjoyed that. Yeah. So, but I couldn't. So, so what did I. do? I was working my ass off and. learning all the time. So, and if I. hadn't had the grades I had, I would. have ended the first money I had, I. would have never met these guys with. whom I started a biotech company. Yeah. and nothing would have happened. I would. have been an ordinary straight boy. Most. likely smart. Yeah. But not uber smart.

because sometimes it's smart and hard. work to get grades. Yeah. It's not all. falls and fun. So, so, so the. practically the if you say like the the. ad, how do you say adversary or the. negative thing being gain a very hostile. environment and not talking about it and. focusing on other stuff completely made. my life. Yeah. In a very positive way. I. I I would I mean Yeah. I I'm so happy. that this was the case. Yeah. And again. and everybody should look everybody has. um limitations and negative stuff but.

you should look at it and say they are. there for a very positive reason and. something amazing will come out of it. I. just need to have this continuous sort. of expectation. and optimism and and you have a real. sense of like personal responsibility. that comes across like you'll take. responsibility for yourself and your. actions. but who else but it's like who else. should woman or you know someone else. We see that with the vaccine. Give the. government a little bit of uh. responsibility and it goes totally. wrong. You don't want anybody be.

responsible for you than yourself. So going to this point about the horror. films which I thought was somewhat. connected to what I've heard about your. rule with alcohol and cigarettes. You I. hear you've never drunk before ever. You've never had a drink. Exactly. So there were two reasons for. it and they were connected. The one, again, by the way, the one reason was. because I was actually thinking like if. I'm going to be drunk 14, 15, I'm going. to spill out I'm gay and then it's over. So, so my social life of being the. darling of the school that day. Yeah. Exactly. No. And I was also like I.

was very nerdy, so teachers loved me, but I was also how you say school. speaker, speaker of the school, whatever. So, I was socially had a great. life. So, I was like, "No, let's not. risk that." Like, no alcohol, you could. say the wrong stuff. Yeah. So that was. the one thing and the other thing was. that I always sort of because you do. that as a child but in general and I. think it's a good thing like if you have. one weakness in my case the weakness for. the time was being gay the other you. build on your strengths which was like. okay I think I'm kind of smart and also.

like smart in terms of learning smart I. learned very easy I always had the best. grades yeah so I was I was sort of. focusing on that so I was also like okay. alcohol could take that away from me uh. because I thought it makes me dumb which. by the way was yeah in a lot of amounts. I still wouldn't drink but so these were. my childish reasons not to drink and. then I just decided okay I think I have. the perfect equilibrium like uh being. always happy having very good grades. everything was perfect so I was like I'm.

not going to touch any drug ever. and you still haven't touched alcohol. cigarettes. no so I have not I haven't drank alcohol. I haven't smoked a cigarette ever I. haven't smoked a joint ever I have not. take cocaine I haven't anything like. no comment. I did I did actually drink alco the. first time when I was sorry echo sorry. right sorry coffee uh the first time. when I was 28. so you avoided coffee as well. I was even avoiding coffee and tea yeah. because it was a drug it was almost like. the the very religious people so I would. have been a good Mormon um so um but. then coffee I started drinking when I. was 28.

there's something crazy here where you. think okay so the guy that doesn't want. to upset his equilibrium goes on to be. the biggest psychedelics investor in the. world which is all about. I think there was a very good ground. because what happened is so I had u a. discussion or a dinner. It wasn't a. discussion. It was like a dinner. discussion like we were set somebody sat. us next to each other with funnily the. joke and said, "Oh, you the guy was a. very or is a very famous um drug. researcher like he's the David Nut of. Germany like the a drug uh yeah adviser.

to the government and yeah a. neuroscientist and somebody said, "Oh, you should two should sit next to each. other because maybe you can loosen. Christian up a bit and he could drink a. little bit of alcohol." So, so this is. how I met Rhino on his name again. Ex. No, but like exactly like again by. but everybody else would have said I. remember that I was like oh my god. that's awesome like and everybody else. would have said well I again and every. single thing happening I see it's good. for me. Yeah. So um so anyway so we had.

this discussion and I think the short. version is he was like look everything. you think is bad is bad like so don't. touch it. Exactly. He actually showed me. these and uh whoever is watching and. maybe I don't know if you can put it. into the the like Yeah. So like this. this famous very famous but it's so um. to the point meaning he's David Nut in. the UK wrote a whole book about the. misperception of drugs but this one like. he had this one chart which David not.

made and Rhina pulled it pulled it off. in the internet where you can see sort. of the harm um of each drug. Yeah. So how much harm there was this. harm scale and Bradley on number one is. alcohol even in a in a holistic approach. alcohol is the worst. and then closely followed by heroin. which by the way the media used a little. bit against David Nut which was highly. unfair because the headline I remember I. think in the sun or whatever was like oh. guy says heroin is better than alcohol. No the thing is like they're both very.

very bad like but alcohol is as well. We. have these. and this is the chart that says the harm. to you and the harm to others. both. It's it's it's in one. So yeah, a. chart that shows the harm that these. different drugs have on you and others. and alcohol is the worst. Exactly. Always the worst, but closely. followed by heroine. Yeah. And closely. followed by um crystal math or whatever. Like everything is bad. And I really. like if there is one positive outcome of. people watching that don't do it. But. don't do alcohol, don't do heroin, don't. do crystal mask, don't nothing. No,

there is no by the way and I'm the most. again pragmatic person because what I. was talking with him was like is there. any drug there could be a drug where you. say oh it has a little bit of downside. but it has enormous upside and then you. can think for yourself again you are. responsible I don't think the government. should be responsible to think for. myself is there any upside of me taking. that risk because if I go in a car I. came to you in a car so I took a risk of. dying meaning very low But there was a.

risk. But I was it's worth to sit with. Stephen and do their podcast. Like no, but everything we do in life, by the. way, people should look at it's like a. risk return. Yeah. So maybe somebody. says, "Oh, if I smoke a joint once in a. while, it makes me so relaxed." Anyway, but you should be aware of the risks. And I think people aren't, especially. not with alcohol. Yeah. And if you then. still decide actively, I'm going to. enjoy my glass of wine, then I think. it's great, but you should know it. anyway. So, but at the end of that scale. it said um.

um probably at the very end is. mushrooms, magic mushrooms and before. the very end is the second sort of. easiest or second lowest risk is is LSD. Practically the psychedelic group of uh. of drug and he was like Christian like I. can't tell you what my host told me to. tell you that you should try alcohol. Don't meaning I can also tell you're not. going to die but like don't do it. Yeah. uh but you should do actually magic. mushrooms. And I was like, "Look, you're. clearly insane. Like I'm I've never. drank alcohol and I'm not going to touch.

an illegal drug." Yeah. And he was very. very uh. persuasive because he was like, "Look, first of all, you do biotech. You. started your career in biotech. Like I. send you um I send you all the research. I did or I do." But also, which was very. cool, hindsight. I didn't even value it. back then. He was like, I did my PhD. with famous Hoffman who invented LSD. So, so Ret was replucked into like the. old guard of psychedelic luminaries. And.

he was like, I sent you all what what he. did like read it because there were all. these studies. It's not like an crazy. idea meaning again actually magic. mushrooms or the ingredient pseudocybin. was used as an approved medical drug in. the 50s by sandals actually very uh at. least in Germany famous um um brand um. for for depression he was like look it. was medical it has no risk as you can. see I tell you as in the older studies.

at least read it and again I'm very. curious I was like well send me I'm so. that was actually against serendipity. and so and now comes the biggest. serendipity because like so for one year. I was just like not meaning it's not. that I had it on my mind every day I was. it was there like I read a little bit. here and by the way again I know a. there's even a book about that but which. says what some people believe is destiny. is just like if you aware of a theme. yeah it's a little bit like when I tell.

you don't think of the blue elephant or. the white whatever you think of it like. so there is this one book I can't. remember the name which again would be. fine for me like because again it works. was like if you are aware of a thing of. a theme then it pops up everywhere. Yeah. So over a year there were not a. lot because it was completely not in the. public domain but like there were once. here and there I was like okay read. something again whatever and then more. or less exactly one year later I was. with my best friends who.

actually have a steak in a tie so. they're happy with my best friends in. the Caribbean. Uh, so disclaimer, it was. a place u where where it's legal. Um, and they had magic mushrooms and they. had it like it looked like mushrooms. Like this was good because I I'm so. hypocchondric and frightened of. everything. So I would never have taken. anything which didn't look like. mushrooms. So these were dried. mushrooms. Like so I was like see from. the ground. Yeah. I was like, "Okay, that looks. real." Like and they were like and I.

trust them. They're my best friends. Yeah. So big shout out to Landon and. Julian. Yeah. So I trust them anyway. They were like, "Look, we grew it. ourselves." So like safe. We know what. we're doing. Yeah. Um and I was like. actually calling Rhina and. the guy you'd met in Germany. Yes. So I'm not mentioning his last name. because I don't know if he he works. still in a very famous job. Uh and I he. was actually saying the sentence, look, as your doctor friend do it. It's the. best place, best people. You know it's.

real. Setting everything is perfect. do it. So, so I took all my courage I had. Um, I was really like and it's it sounds now. I can't say how nervous I was in sort of. both anxious and positive like it was. like really not maybe people say, "Oh, he's talking about magic all the time. It must have been an easy decision." It. was not. Yeah. For days and I was like, "Okay, let's do it." I still know. exactly the point on the beach. Yeah. Uh. because we're going there every Easter. and somewhere I'm going to put a big.

magic mushroom statue here. Uh I really. will. I really will. I know the guys who. own the island. So I Yeah, they already. know of it. Actually, the guy who owns. the island is now a shareholder at Tai. as well. So everybody is literally. everybody. So um so I did it and it was. the single most meaningful thing. Full. stop. And by the way, it confirmed. everything I just said. So because what. a lot of people report is that um that. um you.

it's a very spiritual experience and in. that case it was not just a spiritual. experience but it really confirmed 100%. my fuel in life which is by the way. interesting because if we look now at. people because a lot of people ask me. especially successful people they're. like oh I've read somebody takes it and. then he's want to be a farmer in Brazil. by the way, which was my biggest fear. My biggest fear was like, I'm going to. come out of that and I'm going to change. my whole life because I realize that I. don't know, I want to do something else.

Hindsight, I tell everybody that look at. me and look at others. We have both. We. have people like me who come out are. very even more happy. But it for me it. was a very big confirmation of what I'm. doing. Yeah. Um because um Yeah. I don't. mean not because like it was a. confirmation like okay you see the world. in the right way everything what you do. how you do you can work on it so I got a. lot of ideas how to make it better but.

like sort of the message was you're on. the right path so some other people come. out and the message is look you have to. do something completely what is why is. it different it's actually the same what. it does I think one sort of how you say. one description of of psychedelics is in. general they. you realize or you um you recognize. yourself and all your sort of positive. and all your dreams all your trauma and.

everybody has a bit of trauma must not. be a real so everything and then and. some people and then I was always. hindsight I can say now I was right like. I or I was right I I I was good in it I. was always living a very honest life to. myself again doesn't mean that I say hey. I decided for example not to tell. anybody I'm gay. But that's not from my. point of view, this was not a lie. because it's my decision. But it was not. a lie to myself. Yeah. It was an active. decision to just make my life. suppressing it. It was not suppressing. it. I was just like pragmatically. Yeah.

By the way, it was also very simple. There was also nobody to date. I was. very simple like no. Exactly. Risk risk. return. There was no upside because. there was nobody who would have. appreciated that. Yeah. And if there. would have been a hot guy and I was like. he's gay, I'm gay. I was like, hey, immediately like but there was no. upside. but a lot of downside. Anyway, but what I'm saying is like I always. lived a very honest life um to myself. Yeah. Again, this doesn't mean you have. to shout everything out and this was. confirmed. So other people who don't. live an honest life to themsel and lie.

to themsel and maybe tell themselves. that they are happy with XY Z, they. might realize on a magic motion trip. that they're not like they need and this. is the other people who change. Yeah. But so it's very dependent on Yeah. But. it was just one aspect of so many. positive aspects and then sort of I. immediately after the trip had sort of. the idea okay this should be actually. legal. I was actually not even the first. impetus was not that I should make a. company because I was very sure people.

must work on that stuff because it's so. powerful and when I then found out. actually it took me two years I was. looking around like that there was none. then we did it ourselves. Just to go back to that point though you. you you categorize that moment your. first trip as the single most meaningful. experience of your life. Yeah. today full stop nothing comes. close. and maybe I would add plus the follow on. trips over the last year so it's not. just this one trip I would say as well.

but I would I would I would summarize my. psychedelic experience and I still like. try to do a trip once or twice a year in. a country where it's legal yeah I would. summarize as the most meaningful sort of. holistic experience I've had in my life. full yeah for sure like. you do this trip um on the beach with. your friends, you you think to yourself, you know, this must be legal. Fast. forward, you get a call from one of your. friends called Mike. No, it's way No, it's way crazier. It's.

way crazier. Again, super serendipity. So, fast forward for 2 years, I was very. very carefully looking around and. actually not telling a lot of people. about it, which was wrong. And if I. would have gone on like that, I wouldn't sit here again. Meaning, at. least not now. I would sit here. maybe. but like not talking about mushrooms or. my psychedelics. So for two years I was. kind of extremely holding back. So I. told my closest friends actually the. ones who knew me very well.

saw that or positive like my parents. were like hey you became an even nicer. child. We have an amazing relationship. but it became even better. So my mom was. very quickly saying something happened. in your holiday. Yeah. Yeah. So, so um. so, so the ones who knew me well, but. like I didn't shout it out and I was. actually very very. careful and shy because it's like. technically Yeah. And back then, by the. way, let's not forget like we're talking. about it also now so easily because all. the books came out, we have the success.

like compasses listed like. now is completely different than so. anyway. So for two years I was very like. lowkey. Yeah. And then I had be and. again this is like maybe the biggest. financial serendipity uh or like message. of the universe if you want to see it. like that because for two years I was. sort of like just telling friends very. close friends and then I had u one other. trip within a holiday trip. The main. message on that trip was Christian this.

makes you so happy you have to talk to. other people about this don't be shy. just good thing will come out things. will come out if you talk about it so I. had a real mission so I got this real. mission on that trip to sort of be open. about it and then actually from that. holiday I was flying literally the week. after I met a very close friend and. business partner of mine Mike Novagrat. um who's big in finance and like huge. huge.

Yeah. So, but he's he's not what I want. to say he's not the guy who would talk. about mushrooms normally and I wouldn't. have had but he was my test case because. I had the mission. The mission was don't. be afraid talk about me because it's. going to be good for you and the world. So, I met Mike and he literally Mike is. always like that. What's up? Because I. think I do cool stuff like from other. stuff. So, a lot of friends are always. like, "Hey, what's new? What's up? What. you investing in?" I was like, "Mike, you won't believe it. I just had a. mushroom trip and this was amazing and I.

want to talk tell you about it and he. was like this wa mushroom like I I. remember Mike said the the sentence like. he hasn't talked about it hadn't back. then for like 20 years because. especially in the US a lot of people. it's like a college thing like. party. was like 20 years never heard about it. again since college so I told him all of. my experience on that trip um and in. general or so and he was like very. interested did. Yeah. And so the next. day, literally the next day, my phone.

rings. Mike is on it and actually he. said it. Yeah. He said, "Look, Christian, this is the weirdest. coincidence." So since 20 years or I. haven't talked about psychedelics for 20. years. Yesterday you were in my office. talking about nothing else than. psychedelics. And this morning, my. sister or sister, his sister called him. So my sister called me and she's on Bali. with these crazy couple from London who. told her they want to start a company. which is working on bringing magic.

mushrooms back in the legal realm and. they need somebody who's financing them. and nobody wants to touch it. And I was. like this is this is such a coincidence. You in London they in London like Yeah. And these are George and Katya the. founders of of Compass. Yeah. And I was. like connect me immediately. And I. remember this was January and then we. met when I was back and they were back. from Bali in February um 201. Yeah. And I they tell if we talk about. like within the meeting I was like okay.

we going we're going to do that. together. That's that's what I've waited. for since 2 years. And again if I hadn't. taken the decision to openly talk about. it um I wouldn't have told Mike. I. wouldn't have met George and Katya. We. wouldn't sit here at least not sit here. talking about this one. And the magic. mushrooms were the thing that told you. to talk about it. That's right. And you you end up being, you know, the. single biggest investor in the space, a. space which is now really sort of main. becoming more mainstream at an alarming. rate. A sort of a category that's. exploded from a financial perspective.

Um, and you've you've you've co-ounded. and invested in two the two biggest sort. of companies in this area and Compass. Pathways. Exactly. So practically I co-founded. both in compass I was more the seed. investor because it was George's and. Katya's idea and I added actually a very. close friend of mine Lars as the third. co-founder and I was the seed investor. but sort of I was there. even before the company existed we were. sitting in my in my living room and. planning it and then when I realized how.

positive or it was actually easier is. the wrong word but it was sort of I had. I had expected more. hurdles. Yeah. And it's maybe sadly. actually the time which is helping us. because there are so many people. suffering and it becomes sort of also. financially sometimes life is very the. world functions very pragmatic like in. the in the moment something becomes a. big crisis also financially. Yeah. The. yeah regulator. So anyway whatever it.

was it was the right time. So, Compass. quickly actually got FDA. um fast track designation which was a. big thing stuff like that. So, and then. I actually realized oh there are more. psychedelics out there than meaning. everybody's always almost using magic. mushrooms and psychedelics as the same. but like we have the headline. psychedelics a group of drugs and. psilocybin the active ingredient in. magic mushrooms is one of them. So there. are more of them from MDMA to LSD,

ketamine, ibukane, whatever. And and. compass wanted always to focus on um on. psilocybin. So I was like, okay, then. I'm starting a Thai as sort of a. platform where we actually bring on more. more of these compounds to explore them. for mental health issues. Of all the compounds in a Thai, and I. know there's a lot of them, right? I. think you've got over 13 compounds, different psychedelic compounds within a. tie. Um, we've talked a lot about magic.

mushrooms and that the active compound. in magic mushrooms for anybody that. doesn't know is psilocybin, which is. what compass pathway does. Of all the. others, and I know this is like I've. heard you say before, this is like. choosing your favorite child. Which ones. of the psychedelic compounds is. incredibly compelling to you and really. stands out is being able to have a. really significant impact? That's really hard to say. I really I. really mean it because like it really. meaning because they all have all all. compounds we work on have a.

sort of reason to exist or positive like. have a have a place in treating mental. health issues hopefully. Tell me about ibain then. Yeah. So so then now what I want is the. question is what is your. what does somebody sees as the biggest. problem? or name me the problem you. think is the worst and then I tell you. sort of which drug is the best like kind. of so so so I think I gain is this is is. interesting because also. because I gain goes against addiction.

and there is actually almost nothing. else which works for addiction so. addiction we talk about here severe. addiction like especially to opioids and. heroin is sort of I don't know if you. can say it on English really [ __ ] up. like it's like that's one of the really. severe mental stuff like where most. people have um how do you call it like. um relapse relapse like and then it's. also one of these sort of things if you. look at I don't know families and. friends where somebody is addicted sort.

of it's very like it's like cancer in in. in in the social environment so it's. sort of. it's it's but or I would even say any. mental health is like it's always. affecting others as well but I think. addiction sort of stands out in a. certain way and I gain is the only drug. we know which potentially I always have. to say with all these drugs potentially. because we are about to prove it once. and for all with scientific terms or. with scientific framework FDA sort of. compliant but I gain the potential to.

really cure addiction with one trip. Yeah. And that would be a massive game. changer for the whole opioid crisis. Uh. but even alcohol addiction like it's not. just opio like Yeah. And Yeah. you know, you're trying to you're trying to make. people's lives better, right? You're. trying to get them. It almost seems. like, you know, because you've you've. been gifted enough to be happy your. whole life. You you're doing a lot to. make sure other people can be happy on. one end. But the other thing that you're. doing, which also kind of blew my mind. when I met you, is trying to extend. life. You know, you've got Elon who's. like trying to save life on Earth, but.

also take us to a new one. And it seems. like, you know, Apiron, your investment. company is trying to make the life we. live more joyous and fulfilled, but also. trying to extend it. and the work you're. doing with life longevity I actually. find. maybe even more. bonkers. Like when I first heard about. psychedelics I was like really and then. I spent 6 months 9 months learning and I. was like oh my god like I get it but. life longevity for me is like really we.

can really we can really extend our. lives and you you've got companies which. are working on that challenge. So tell. me about life longevity. Is it possible? I well okay let's so so so let's phrase. it correctly like because even I if I. want to sort of some say something very. um pokey I'm like oh we're going to live. forever yeah that's not going to happen. for an accident reason yes you could say. maybe we live forever if we really. upload our brain to our computer but. that not that I think that's completely.

impossible but I think then we're not. human anymore that's a different. discussion like so but I would say as. long as we stay fairly human, meaning. having a body, having sort of the human setup we have. Yeah. There will always be an end. Let's. start there because the worst case if. you live hundreds of years, you're going. to have an accident somewhere and. somebody blows you up. You have a By the. way, it's going to as a side note, I. think it's going to change once we get.

older and older. It's going to change. the way how we look at risk because I. already start avoiding crazy stuff. because I'm like it's not worth it. Again, risk return. Like I have this one. colleague I always try to convince he's. 50 and he drives a motorbike and I'm. like you shouldn't do it. Like the sort. of statistical risk is so big of driving. a motorbike. And his answer is well. because he's still thinking his his life. expectancy is 70. He's like, "Well, but. I'm exchanging 20 years if it happens. against my biggest passion, and this is.

a trade-off worth it." And I was like, "Well, a it's already stupid. But if you. if you It's okay if this is your. opinion, 20 years against the risk of. losing it. But I tell you like it's not. 20. You already if you're 50, I'm going. to get you up or we going to get you up. with longevity science to maybe 90 or. 100 by the way, in a good way. So would. you exchange 50?" And then suddenly you. see okay then he starts thinking because. so and now think it a little bit further. like if you say hey our natural life. experience someone will be 200 maybe we.

stop doing stuff we're doing now because. it could sort of yeah so but you know. back to your question like longevity. never means immortality because again as. long as we stay kind of human because. there's an accident risk uh by the way I. also believe spiritually again that we. don't want to live forever I I think. part of being human again as long as we. stay that and we can talk about that as. well because it's another thing I'm. thinking a lot maybe we don't stay human. in our current form but as long so I.

think to part of being human is having. an end. because that makes everything we do so I. just don't want it now like I want to. have more of it but I think the the sort. of the li that there is a time limit on. being human is actually which makes us. thrive yeah and which makes us. everything special. everything special. So I don't think I. want to take that away. I just want to. extend. the joy. Yeah. Then doesn't it just become relative. again then? So if you live to 150 but. wait so so what I really believe what we.

get in the next. maybe like. 30 20 to 30. It's come it's I think it's. going to come way quicker than people. think is that we're going to get life. expectancy up. to to a time or to a to a to a to a size. to a magnitude where we want to die. And. I think it's even like this will be a. range and some people might already say. 100 I had it all. I had enough.

birthdays, enough Christmases and so. some people want to maybe live to 300. But I think we going to give people that. optionality sooner than we think. And. then I think dying will be like this is. my vision like it's a celebration. I. would someone say look guys I had it. all. I love you love life but I really. think I'm ready for whatever comes. Maybe comes nothing. I don't know but. like I have an expectation but like yeah. but whatever it is I'm going to finish. it now. Throw a big party. Say goodbye. to everybody and then go out on my own.

terms on my own time. I think that's. going to be sooner than we think. You whispered that I have an. expectation. Well, I think there is another life. Like I think it's a continuous uh cycle. But that's not a spiritual question like. but like I I very much believe we have. an eternal soul. Yeah. I don't even. think there is a number. But first of. all I again I come back which gives me a. lot of thing. I don't believe in the. Christian thing that we have anything to. prove. That's already starts because it. means you're not worthy and you have to. prove yourself worthy. It's like you I.

think everybody should be deeply happy. and do exactly what he he or she feels. is the right thing to do. No, by the. way, again, this is I think what people. realize on the on the psychedelics is. like they I always like to say like. which is maybe a good way to describe a. psychedelic trip like since we're young. and again maybe my parents were like. better than other parents in avoiding. that but since we're baby people start. telling us what we should do what we.

should not do how we should be how we. should think how we should and I always. say like there is your soul somewhere. like what form of your soul is like but. there is somewhere the level of you you. and again the problem is when we have. this discussion what I want to avoid why. I'm sometimes so blurry is that if you. start using religious terms then some. people might be set off yeah or pushed. away because if I use the word soul or. god then uh a Christian person might. have a different reaction than a Muslim. person than a um than a Hindu person.

yeah interestingly a lot of people who. went through psychedelics have sort of. the same description because so so. anyways it's by trying to use as neutral. worlds as possible. So let's call it. soul or inner you or whatever and then. you have all these sort of external. sort of um garbage almost what other. people put on you. Yeah. And and I think. some people literally lose sight.

what they really are and want. So and I. actually was always very good. So what I. realized under my trip that sort of so. what happens under a trip sort of all. this garbage is taken away. So you. really look at you. but you and your real naked sort of. form like form I mean like you recognize. yourself all your fears all your wishes. all your whatever. Yeah. And. interestingly it was for me it was still. a great experience but it was not so.

different. So which told me. okay I did a good job before. psychedelics to sort of be again true to. myself and I I don't believe in what. what some faith say that that oh you. have to be worthy because you are worthy. yeah and you are great you just should. live the life as sort of it is fit for. you and again this is for everybody it's. different but you need to know it yeah. so so but to so this is my belief and. then so and so so there is no okay I.

have it's not like a computer game where. you have to reach a level and do certain. things and then come to the next one. I. just think it's like an endless positive. sort of cycle of experiences. Yeah. So, and I'm definitely know that somewhere. and I'm going to want to go to to the. next level is the wrong word to the next. experience. Yeah. Um but for now I want. to actually extend this one. A lot of people don't get to live and. this is what I was thinking is like this. this idea that people will get to a. point in their life where they say you. know what I've had enough. This has been.

great. I would you do you genuinely. believe you'll get to a point where. maybe 150 whatever where you think. I think some it's going to happen like I. maybe it's very late meaning I hope but. again I think this is the ultimate. meaning I'm already pissed about the. government interfering in in my stuff in. any way but the biggest interference is. death it's not my I don't choose the. time I don't choose like and we need to. change that so I think the biggest sort. of liberty everybody has will be. choosing his or her own Yes, but you'll.

always be curious. The world will always. be changing. There'll always be. go on like a long time. I I I I I'm trying to understand if I if. I genuinely believe that Christian will. ever get to a point where he's bored. because you're such a curious but it's. great if that is the case. I really. don't know like meaning but I'm just. saying I believe like again I think. there is a moment everybody will come to. that. Maybe it's very very great. Like. I'm working on it. Like. And you don't think death is a n is a. especially that age is like a natural. thing? I hear you talking about it as a.

as a bug or as a disease or something. Well, that that's I would say definitely. aging is a disease. Something is wrong. So something is I know how the. 20-year-old Christian looked and was and. felt. And by the way, my DNA is the same. like it was when I was born, like it was. when I was 20, like it's now, but. something of the same DNA. It's like a. little bit we know how the house it's. the construction plan of the house is.

the same. And some. the sort of minions who who translate. the construction plan into the building. Yeah. Change it and not to the better. from age 20 on like I get gray hair, whatever. Like so but we know still it. is there like the original source of. information is there our DNA. So we just. need to find out it is super simplified. what changes the translation of our DNA.

into mistakes and into what we call. aging. Yeah that's a very simplified. view but it shows you that it's not so. natural. Yeah because it's not that your. DNA is if if it would be natural maybe. your DNA would change. You would say we. can't change that. Yeah. But it's not. like your DNA is the same till you die. Like so we just need to make sure that. the translation happens like when you. were 20. So by the way I deeply believe. not just that we can slow down and stop. aging, we can reverse it. because again I know how Steven many you. are still obviously at your prime. Yeah, but I know how Christian in his primes.

looked like and yeah, you know what I. mean? Yeah. And we can bring it back. So. some some Yeah. going to say some. animals live for a couple of days. though. So I I take like I look at take. an evolutionary perspective on this and. think like you know there's some like. flies that live for like 4 days but it's. enough time. Maybe we are there at the moment to. escape the evolutionary velocity. Maybe. that's the pinnacle where we sort of. start becoming and I know because I. don't mean it like in a placeic way. I. think we meant to be like gods in our. own way. Yeah. And we start now to go to.

the sort of source and construction of. life ourselves. And I think that's an. enormously curious thing. And like Yeah. Maybe that's what we meant to be. I'm. rather on the positive side. This is not. blasphemy or whatever, but this is like. what God set us up for, so to say. By. the way, every single religion, it's a. very fun. Nobody ever I don't say I. love, by the way, uh and you know, we. can't say today that there is a big. thing coming out about religion and and. science of religion, but I always love.

that I'm always was finally drawn to the. mystical side and the religious side. And aside of what we discussed on let's. what I call spiritual side I was always. always very interested in the history of. religions. Um and interestingly a one. sad actually. happy and sad observation is that in the. very core all religions are the same. They all preach the same good stuff. Be. nice be nice to others and then once. they become an organization the [ __ ]. starts. Yeah. So and uh and also one.

what most religions have just going. through but mo yeah literally most. religions have the big ones is that they. at the very beginning say that we are a. part and a mirror or is the English term. that we are an image of God. and we don't talk about that because now. everybody's like oh if you if you want. to live forever well what a lot of. people again if you want to defy aging. and there are a lot of people oh you. want to play god yeah this is sort of. the. the rebuttals the real and I was like. but maybe that's what we meant to be.

because if I go to the Bible it says we. are the image of God so maybe we are. meant to play God because that's what we. are in in a philosophical way so I don't. think it's not e ethically at all I. think it's the ultimate actually. challenge we have to solve yeah um. the other rebuttal I would I thought the. first time I heard about the the. possibility of extending life was that. you know we'd have a really aging. population where we'd all So, it's. interesting you talk about reversing. aging, but we'd all be 170 and slightly.

like, you know, slow. It doesn't make any It doesn't make. medically or sense we won't be 150 and. super old. It doesn't make sense. You. can't extend lifespan that much without. rejuvenation. It comes at this. Thanks, God. And nobody wants to be like because. by the way, that's what most people fear. though. Why they It's interesting how. many people reject the idea of living. very long. I don't know if living very. long but the one of the very bal reasons. is that they automatically think okay if.

Christian would succeed in making us. live till 150 they take okay I know a. 90-year-old granny from of mine and. she's not in good shape and now they add. another 60 years and they're like no. that's not what I want but that's exact. but that's not what's going to happen in. the moment we can push life expectancy. way further than 90 it it goes hand. inhand with rejuvenation. And then more people want it. And what time frame do you expect?

I think we're going to see. step really really tangible steps. forward the next 20 years. Yeah. And. then let's say 20 to 40 later by the way. which is not that far. Yeah. And um and. also um the um this going to change. society meaning everything. And. interestingly, every politician I talk. to thinks like, well, that's far away. And I was like, no, it's not it's not. that so far away than you think. And. like this going to affect us sooner and.

we need to talk about it about about. social systems, about anything. Yeah. Uh. this going to be one of the massive. black but I not a negative way by the. way. I think it's going to be good, but. like I'm an eternal optimist. Like um. but like in a it will be a massive. change for the world. Let me drink this delicious drink. What's it called? I put it like in a commercial in the We. should like leave that in. It's like. hopefully it's better. H.

fuel. Yeah. Yeah. Human fuel. Human fuel. Okay. It's a very good name. Yeah, it's a very good name. Who came up with that name? Julian Han. Oh yeah. Um, so switching because in fact the. topic the topics of conversation we've. discussed are super interesting but. personally the things that I find most. fascinating about you are you're just. like ridiculous ridiculous work ethic. and I've talked to some of your friends. I spoke to Aaron. I spoke to people.

around you just to confirm what I. thought and the intensity and the amount. you work I think is just like. staggering. I think I'm really. hardworking. I've seen you in action. around the clock over the weekend. The. fact that we're doing this on a. Saturday. I don't normally record the. podcast and say. it's a hobby. It's like it's like having. fun. It's not like work, but okay. I. know it. Yeah. My point is about, you know, in culture, people talk about this term work life. balance. And I think you've kind of. responded to it there. Very easy. There shouldn't be a work. life balance. There should just be one. continuous hobby. That's my view on it.

People should love what they do in a. way. Obviously, you do different things. and I love more things. So, but like. there I I always said since I'm 16 or. actually 14 since I have my tutoring, if. I would call it work life balance then I. have a shitty life because it's just. work but my work is my life and I love. it and it's integrated and most of my. friends I work with and like even like. friends who didn't this is how I came to. the movie business because just like I. had friends who were actors and were in. a movie business and then I was like.

maybe we should work together maybe we. should finance a movie like it's like. Yeah, I don't want to see it as a. separation. Separation. Quick one. Starting from the minute the. lockdown is lifted, we're going to start. bringing in some of our subscribers to. watch how this podcast is produced. behind the scenes. Means you get to meet. the guests, meet myself, and see how we. put all of this together. If you want. that to be you, all you've got to do hit. the subscribe button. Let's talk about. more personal things. So, relationships. How does someone who works as hard as. you find any I'm I'm presuming you value.

what relationships can bring you? Well, complicated topic is work in progress. like welcome to the podcast the diary. Oh no it's like uh no that that's work. in progress. So that's like uh because. obviously like I'm so much in love with. my work that um that it's always it's. hard I think for another person although. I think I can try to be very uplifting. because I would try say the same what I.

told you is like I would tell every. partner like you have to find you can't. expect from me to get give you meaning. you need to give yourself meaning and. then we can be happy together yeah but I. this is unfortunately not how a lot of. people work like so it's very easy that. sort. I have a quote on Instagram, my best. performing quote ever. It says, um, "If. we're dating, I want to be your second. priority. I want your first priority to. be you, your passions, your future. If. we're happy alone, we'll be happier. together.". Yeah, that's so Yeah. And I'm happy. alone, by the way. Yeah. I. I'm also like an introvert extrovert, so.

people think I'm very extrovert, and I. can be and I want to be like can I like. to host parties and dinners and do. things like that, but then I want to be. alone actually a lot. So, do you value. and tell me the value of a relationship. in your view of like a really good. committed relationship? Do you value it? That's a complicated, right? So, um. because because if I say no, it sounds. brutal and I don't No, no. And I don't.

mean it like I I I think it's more the. answer is more complicated. So. I build myself that I that I'm sort of. very like independently. So so I value. relationships. a lot. So that's the real answer. But I. I'm not in the concept that one should. stand out. So I rather have groups. So I. I believe that or I believe like I do. have like 10 but not one like 10 very.

very close friends who most of them I. have since a very long time. I actually. extremely value relations but I'm not. saying okay there is this one relation. in my life which will completely stand. out from the rest which is maybe a um a. complicated thing for relationship. I do. think though this will change once you. get children. Yeah. So which I want. So. that's sort of the Yeah. Um and by the. way, I also do think people change like.

and and I don't think the core of you. changes and like the core but like you. can make adjustments. So I know for. example that when I want children or. once I have children that I have to make. adjustments because I just want children. if they have the same happy childhood. that I had. So I want to be either no. dad or a great dad. Yeah. So and then I. know I need to make adjustments. So, but. then it's worth it and then it's my. active decision to take it. How is it? You are the busiest person I.

know. I was just thinking then I was. thinking, is this the busiest person I. know? You're probably You're the busiest. person I know. I'd say. have you struggled to have romantic. relationships because of that busyness? I feel like in like a interrogation of. curt. What did you think was going to happen. here? This is what it's this is these are the. things no one talks about, right? And I. sit here single struggling. So I'm like I'll ask Christian cuz he's. way busier and I'm struggling. So is. there any hope for Steve? Yeah, totally. Like there's hope for all.

of us. Be positive. It's funny. It's this feels like a bit. more of an uncomfortable topic for you. for some reason. No, it's just very private. It's not. uncomfortable. I will tell you my fuse. in private easier because. um. there's 100,000 people watching. Exactly. 100,000 people now. It's. getting like cringey. Um, no. It it is. definitely a problem. full stop. Like Yeah. And you realize that you're going to. have to adjust at some point if I want. to do that. Yeah.

Yeah. And then you always say like, okay, you. do that. The issue is like what I. thinking a lot. How do you know when to. adjust like in terms of because you. would say romantically you would say you. adjust when the right one comes. How do. you know that the right one comes if you. don't have time to figure out to right? There is these a little bit and I. haven't figured that fully out. You're. someone looking at the past 40 years of. your life that does whatever he wants to. do and isn't actually very good at. adjusting unwillingly. You you've never. been good in your life story at doing. something unwillingly.

You go the way Christian wants to go and. I just. I wonder I'm like when will what will be. the catalyst? You said kids may be there. but what will be the catalyst that makes. Christian. adjust? But maybe it's a romantic thing you. really like love at first sight. I mean. again the good thing is that I I deeply. believe that makes me very calm that. coming back to what we had that this I I. deeply believe it's going to come at the. right time and I know that I'm sort of. enough open for it because it's the same. like with business ideas or the same.

with other stuff in my life. Again, if. you're open open heart open mind you're. going to see it when it comes. So it's. not it's a little bit like with anything. else like you don't have negative. thoughts. Don't think oh I need it now. like yeah so it comes when it comes like. because everything in my life came at. the right time why not this one so I'm. very that's how I see it. I guess at the macro level. and by the way if in the moment things. came I can just say now business stuff.

but like again business is my like when. psychedelics came and then the business. meaning that's sort of very a big part. of my time allocation over the last oh. like four or five years was in the into. the secondary business. I made space for. it. Yeah. So, I'm always like it's not. again when things comes you realize that. you you realize the message and then you. make space for it. But there's a chance you said that you. might be obstructing it from coming and. happening because you're so preoccupied.

with. No, I'm thinking about that. Then my. conclusion is then usually that or. because again like I'm because romance. is maybe but it's not maybe it's maybe. not like finding a good company maybe. that sounds now very um very. non-romantic but I don't mean it's. romantic because I also think finding. company is very romantic or very very uh. emotional. Yeah. uh if I look for. example at the psychedelic business I. think that but I do actively again it's. not that I'm ignoring so what I said.

before my my my philosophy of not having. negative thoughts doesn't mean that you. cannot analyze sort of stuff and sort of. look on the risky side so I do think. about it is my life how I lead it maybe. preventing. to have sort of the one and only. romantic um experience Uh my conclusion. is then mostly that I'm like okay no. because like it will come at the right. time and then you're going to realize it. and then you're going to make space like. you make like I make space for.

everything else. It's so funny cuz you because you're. such an internal optimist I almost can't. get you to. but that's how it work. Bad things. happen to me as well. Bad things are. there but my mind twists it around or. twists like this is what I'm really. training since I'm 14 since I bought the. book in Munich. like every throw it to. me throw it to me a negative thing. and I'm I'm maybe a little bit puzzled. for a second or for example even this is. how it works like things even if things. in our portfolio don't go well I'm like.

a little bit like shaken for a moment. and I'm like where's the good thing and. how can I turn that in my mind how can I. see the upside yeah. it's fascinating because I was yeah I'm. trying to get you to you know the reason. why I started this podcast is because. sometimes I want to highlight that for. all the great things people see that you. know there'll be people watching you. thinking I would want to be have all. these companies and manage you two. billion of assets and all these things. but there's always a there's always some. kind of down not downside but sacrifice. we could say that's happening and I'm.

trying to get out where that sacrifice. is and the problem is you are happy so. and you're pursuing yourself so it's. hard to identify a sacrifice when you're. that optimistic. no exact I know what you mean I just try. also as a message not to see it like I I. think people shouldn't see it because. that's the negative story about success. The negative story of success is that. people see people and say, "Oh, I want. to be like them. Yeah, I would like to.

have the wealth. I would like to have XY. Z." Then they can't immediately have it. because by the way, it's a long process. and you need to work harder. But and. then they tell you, "Oh, they must have. gone through a lot of sacrifice." Yeah. And then this is a little bit what calms. them down or they they they have a lot. of bad stuff like coming with it. I. think that's the wrong way to look at. for both sides. Like I think the right. way to look at it like do I really want. that? Is this really what makes me. happy? Yeah.

And then it's by the way not that easy. to meaning everybody would say like oh. yeah it's like simplified money makes me. happy but then again do you makes it. happy what comes with it but I don't. want to call it a sacrifice because I. wouldn't do it if I would have to. sacrifice stuff in order to get money. because it's not about money anyway by. the way money from a certain moment on. is not really. the driving force. there there's there is there isn't. meaning there is great research it's not. money it's like that for from. practically zero to x Money gives you. happiness because it makes your life.

easier. So, but then someone you're not. going to spend it because somewhere it. becomes a figure. Yeah. And then it's. about do you love what you do? Yeah. So, latest then. Yeah. But like so so I. don't people should see not this you. can't see I don't know wealth or. anything separated from the the process. how you got there. Yeah. And then it's. not about saying oh the process was hard. and sacrifice. It's like is the whole. process what I love doing then you.

should throw you sort of or is it. something else what I love and then you. should not though envy other people. because that makes you miserable as. well. You should always embrace what the. problem is people often don't know what. they really want. Yeah. And that again. psychedelics give you like but like in. the moment you embrace what you really. want and maybe like like a housewife. maybe really loves it. It's not. something where she should say, "Oh, I'm. just a housewife and somebody else is a. big entrepreneur." Maybe that's what she.

really wants in this life. She maybe. wants to have children, take care of. them and take care of him in exactly the. way. But it's about knowing that. actively, not letting other people. put you in that position. or let circumstances put you in that. position, but like actively know. yourself. Is that what makes you happy? Yeah, I've written about this at length. in the book. this idea that like um but. obviously the huge force in our lives at. the moment which whispers in our ear. that we want to be something else is. like social media and so society say. you've got to be a doctor your mom might.

say or Instagram will say you've got to. be a billionaire and really you just. want to be an artist that dances in. Croatia you know what I mean. exactly embrace it but again you need to. know it like by the way I think as much. as I love tech that's one of the other. topics which which really like sort of. how you say keep me away at yeah but. keep me away at night is. something in the world we live in or. actually something in the world we are. building because we we reconstructing. the world in any form and people I think.

have no no real glimpse yet how crazy. this will be. Yeah, we going now. People. think we we're in like a 20 year of tech. boom, which is true on the one side, but. if you're really honest, and there's. this famous quote which I love to use. from Peter Teal who said we wanted. flying cars and we got 140 characters on. Twitter. Yeah. Which says practically if. you look at the last 20 years, yes, we. had a tech boom, but more or less I'm.

simplifying. Yeah. The what changed is. the distribution of goods. Amazon. Now. we're not shopping anymore. We're. getting it delivered, but it's still the. same goods. Yeah. Um and um social media, it changed. Communication changed, but we didn't go. to the fabric. of. society, industry, and ourselves. So now. we starting going to reformulate and. rechange the fabric of ourselves. longevity. We're gonna really make not.

just five years again maybe with which. change everything we change and this is. all interdependent then in a moment we. change the fabric of our body or then we. change the fabric of society because. society is very much linked to an 80. year life expectancy yeah flying cars. are now really coming literally we have. fly yeah we have flying cars now soon. yeah we're going to go to Mars somewhere. and it's going to happen maybe 20 maybe. it's going to happen so the world is. going to change like we've never seen it. before so And I love it. Yeah. And you.

love it. And maybe even the people who. watch that love it because otherwise. they maybe wouldn't watch it. But like. the majority of people doesn't. Yeah. So. and I think that's one of the underlying. reasons which makes the society more and. more depressive or mental health because. like I think there is this enormous. fear. Um, and people often have like I. think it's a another word for gut. feeling like you have you can't really. explain it what makes you nervous but it.

makes you nervous and I think that's. what happening. So I think the sort of. the world as a whole except of some. eternal optimists and some techies. Yeah. Are like yeah maybe I like a. single piece. I like my iPhone. I like. that. But as an entirety that makes me. deeply uncomfortable. The race of change around. Exactly. Yeah. So and even if they don't. know it, the bus driver maybe can't. fully explain how a self-driving bus. will work, but somewhere he feels that. in 10 years it's not going to be his job. anymore. Yeah. And I think that creates.

a lot of risk because the last time that. happened that was when we changed from. the agricultural society to the um to. the industrial society. Yeah. And you. can say now we changed from the. industrial society to let's call it data. society. We need a word for it but we're changing. and changing in a massive way. So and. then so there are a lot of parallels. of the time between 1875. and 1920 the people were there was these.

elite technically who said everything is. possible you had um it was I think it. was in 1870 but I don't know something. when when the Eiffel Tower was built. there was these uh what is it called. world exhibition like and people were. like oh my god when there was Jules Vern. when it was also around the time and. hopefully I spell him right in English. like he wrote all these books Yeah. Like. the sci-fi books. Yeah. So the world was. already there once. Unfortunately, we. had then two world wars. Yeah. And you can look at a lot of. reasons why World War I and two happened.

and there is a lot of different layers. of um of of reasons. But I believe that. the main reason is these sort of. disenfranchisement. of the agricultural society who were. deeply panicky like what's happening to. the world because the world the farmer. Yeah. in the 19th century knew was. disappearing in in front of his eyes. Yeah. And it's exactly happening the. same again. So. couldn't there could there not be. another reason linked to that why people.

are be becoming depressed in the. technological evolution? Because you. know at the start of this podcast you. said about the importance of nature and. I've read studies about you know. prisoners who face who face nature. versus a brick wall are 30% less likely. to be depressed. And the the sort of. very human prehistoric origin of the. human being is one that's in nature. It's one that's in a tribe, has. meaningful connections, and the. technological revolution is ridding, you. know, I now live between four white. walls alone in a big gray city. Could. that also not be part of the reason why. people are we're getting less human than.

ever? And in fact, what I what I like, you know, when I read about some of the. social reasons why people are getting. more depressed, it's because we're. getting further and further away from. being human. This is maybe a little bit more. philosophical, but like if you look at. like the things that help with mental. health, some typically it's it's. meaningful connection. It's nature. It's. good diet. No more junk. And these are all things that humans did. 10,000 years ago. It's like we have to. go back to find ourselves again. Or we have to find our human place in a. world which is changing. So yes. So I I.

I do I do think a lot how can we stay. human. in a world which is changing that. crazily as it does. which wants robots. It's like this world. now would appreciate if I was a robot. more productive. Now I think we can adjust. And by the. way, and I know it's like and I'm saying. that with all the disclaimers, it's not. legal right now and I'm always coming. back to that. But I do think somewhere. psychedelics will be. will be the medication for that because.

it keeps us in a certain way very human. but it at the same time makes us very. adaptive on our environment. Um so. that's so I give you is more or less the. same what you said. So how I see what do. humans need to be happy? I think it's. three things. It's. some form of faith and I explain in a. second. So, it's faith, it's purpose, and it's love. It's super cheesy what. I'm saying now, but like these are the. three things which I I think make us.

as a as as as a the combination of these. three things make make us happy. Then I. think let's go go through it. faith. means any form of um higher meaning or. the other way around. I think being. atheist or believing literally in a. materialistic world where if you die. you're dead and then you rot. Yeah. Makes people very unhappy. This is not a. again meaning I made I think the case. that I believe in in more but like let's.

it's not even a case. It's just like. saying like factually I think people. need that. We need this why every. society ever developed a religion. Like. I think we need it. Why? Because we're. terrorized of dying. We don't admit it. I admit it. I don't want to age. Aging. sucks. Dying sucks. And even worse, by. the way, dying of people I love sucks. So, and we don't talk about it. We. completely pushed it away from us. Yeah. And I believe religion always gave. people that sort of calmness or a little.

bit of a calmness that as death is not. the end. You want to see people again, people you love, whatever. So, and I. think it's important because otherwise. you have this permanent terror of death. in your head and you might not have been. it but you have. Second point is. purpose. What I say with a bus driver, people need a purpose. Yeah. and they. need to know why they wake up in the. morning and um and um what they're. doing. So having said that uh in front. of our very eyes at the moment like the.

these these things are dissolving that. the purposes so we need to find new ones. and the most important is we need love. and in a cheesy way must not be a. one-on-one relationship but it could be. could be a one-on-one relationship could. be a family could be a close friend. could be a community. Yeah. So love on. various levels. So and. actually the bad thing is if you look at. where the world is going at the moment. all these three things are dissolved. So. face is on a super decline. Yeah. Um then purpose is on decline because we. changing the world and most people don't.

find their purpose immediately there. And then unfortunately also communities. are on decline. traditional family. structures, but also communities. Meaning, if I remember if I grew up, I. had like what do you call it in English? When you go to like a theater group and. I had 10 groups, like it was all like it. was it was the sort of the pinnacle of a. community. We were so and it was great. Yeah. And I don't think if you have that. anymore in that way. Yeah. Or at least. this sort of vanishing. Yeah. Statistically, there's a study in the US. which says um 15 years ago, people would.

respond to the question, how many people. can you turn to in time of crisis? The. medium answer was three. It's now zero. It's crazy. Like I had 10 when I was. young. And psychedelics are giving you. that all of that. They're giving you. faith, spirituality. They're giving you purpose. because you you re you realize that the. purpose lies within you and you can. reinvent yourself. And they're giving. you love because you realize the value. of connections, whatever. I read tons of things and this is a bit. of a sideway, but I read a great. No, it's really great. Like. what is great? I love it. Like.

he's talking about the hu he's drinking. It's good. I will send you a big box of. There's different flavors. This one's. berry. So, we'll send you this flavor as. well. But it's also really good for you. It's the reason I'm in the best shape of. my life. I read something really. interesting, which again goes against a. couple of narratives I would expect from. you. You said you have 42 pills a day. Roundabout. This is someone that doesn't want to. mess with their equilibrium. It's having. 42 different pills a day. Well, no. Yeah, but it's it's not. Okay. No, I'm joking. No, no. It's like um I someone going to.

put it online because so many people ask. like so I um first of all I think. everything we take we eat is an active. decision. So I like so if you remember. like before the the the. the podcast. the podcast I was looking at it because. I wanted to know what is in it like and. there is seems to be a lot of good stuff. in it. Yeah. I think that might be one. of the greatest endorsements ever. the. fact that somebody who cares that much. about their health that they won't touch. anything bad looked at what was inside. Hu looked at the the vitamins, the the.

level of protein, the carbs, and all of. the amazing things it has in it. Someone. like Christian who is a billionaire and. decided that it was good enough for him, right? Um Christian is obsessed with his. health and uh and also I guess the other. thing is he really really enjoyed the. flavor as well. He tried two flavors. He. tried the new banana flavor, which if. you haven't tried, I highly recommend. you do. But he also tried the berry. flavor, which he actually decided to. take with him, which was my old my old. favorite flavor. My new favorite flavor. is the ready to drink banana flavor. But.

um I believe, you know, someone like. Christian who cares a lot about his. health, who cares about convenience, and. who cares about consuming things that. taste good, I believe Christian is the. perfect customer for him. If you are. someone that is often skips meals or. doesn't always get the sort of. nutritionally complete diet that you. need to function properly and to extend. the length of your life and to be. healthy in your body and mind and he is. just such a good solution. So, so I. don't I'm not in a camp where people say. oh vitamins or any form of of added.

stuff is bad because I'm like everything. I eat is something external going in my. body. Yeah. So and then my view on on. aging at the moment is at the moment. there is unfortunately we're working on. it hard. Yeah. But there is nothing. which really slows down aging. dramatically. Yeah. Dramatically or and. or or even reverses it. However, there. are things which give you a little bit. of an edge. Yeah. And the edge is not. big. Yeah. But unfortunately I'm not 20.

anymore. If I would been 20 which uh. then I would say hey no then then the. optionality would be super easy. If I. would be 20 now and I tell that my. godchildren they don't believe it. they're 10 I'm like you're going to live. for hundreds of years. Yeah. So I'm. unfortunately fortunately because I. still have the opportunity and again my. decision was like I want to work on it. because I think I do it better than. others. Yeah. And I'd rather trust. myself than wait than others doing it. Seriously, like we're like I like okay. but I'm I'm at the borderline like.

because I need to hurry up. So So even. if I do something now at the moment. which gives me statistically two more. years that's two more years like Yeah. in a in a race. Yeah. Tell me what these things are. Well I think the. I'm 20 so I'd like to. Yes. So I think there are some some easy. things to do like um the uh for example. sleep is super important. Yeah. Then um. why why sleep important. for could talk we could you should do I.

told you you should do a podcast just. about sleep expon. yeah oh you had so it's perfect like. there's so many reasons but sleep is one. of the core things we don't fully. understand it yet but like who has. practically if you I don't know the. exact number but read why we sleep from. Matthew Walker like I think if if you if. you sleep 2 three hours less than you. should for some days your immune system. is collapsing If your immune system. collapsing that your probability of. cancer goes up and I mean sleep has so.

many ne good sleep is so good for you. and ne too little sleep has so many. negative consequences that so sleep is. super important so I try to sleep enough. for example I try that's one of the. luxury things uh which I can do because. I work for myself that I don't have. early morning meetings so and I have. always something to do like emails. whatever but I try that I can wake up. naturally so I never wake up with an. alarm clock as unless I need to fly or. whatever. Yeah. So, um so that's one. thing. Then obviously no alcohol.

Alcohol is a is a is a is toxic like. full stop. Cigarettes. All all drugs. except of psychedelics are toxic. Yeah. So don't do them. Yeah. Very bad for. aging. Yeah. You see that by the way. when people like Yeah. Um I don't want. to. say now that I aged well, but like if I. go to a class reunion or whatever, like. some people who drink very a lot of. alcohol and eat [ __ ] Yeah. they look. older like it's like so so they say is. yeah food like intake you be healthy. don't carbs like sugar is super bad like.

I think so so I don't want to go yes I. do 42 pills or whatever it is yeah and. meaning it's the list would be long and. maybe again maybe I put it somewhere. online but I think the message is. because if people jump from zero to 42. pills they won't do it anyway so whoever. listens now I would say if you do the. three four five things which sort of. it's these 8020 rules I'm trying to. carve out the. 20% but go for the sort of the easy hard. and easy first. Sleep, healthy food,

exercise is super important. Must not be. super hard exercise, but like every day. like 20, 30 minutes of mild to medium. exercise, as I said, no drugs, no. alcohol, whatever. Um, these are the. main ones. You're going to be. significantly healthier. And. I heard you talk about intermittent. fasting. Yes. Oh, sorry. Intermittent fasting is. one. Yes. So I try not to eat for 16 18. hours a day every day. And once you. start doing it, you you sort of you. why why do you do that? Why do you. intermittently fast? I've always been.

curious about it. I've never done it. Uh because it's very healthy. I mean. there are a lot of health benefits. Your. your blood sugar level sort of. normalizes which has then sort of a lot. of um follow on effects. Yeah. It's also. you lose weight. It's a very simple like. Yeah. Um. I um I actually only have one other. thing that I wanted to ask you about. I. mean I I don't I have a million things, but in the interest of time, it was. about Bitcoin. Yep. You you've you've been a big investor in. Bitcoin and the future of Bitcoin,

you're bullish. Super bullish. Because what I think is. like. all politicians from left and right from. from any part of the spectrum. And by. the way, I think about it a lot. I think. maybe it's not even a stupid decision. what they took but like all politicians. decided that money printing is the thing. to go. Yeah. So we're going to see these. massive devaluation of fiat money and. never before again I really love history. and normally this happened to one. currency or one country or whatever at.

the moment it happens it's it's. happening to all the major currencies in. the world euro. [Music]. remn like US dollar everything is sort. of devaluated at the same time so and. because everything is relative to each. other obviously by the way it's not just. bitcoin but assets go up this is why I'm. on a 10 year horizon. I'm extremely. bullish on in general quality assets, stocks, bitcoin, anything which is not. cash. I think the most dangerous asset.

class for 10 years is cash. Doesn't mean. by the way there can't be stock market. crash whatever in between where you want. to have cash to buy. Yeah. So you should. have like how you say in English. tactically cash but not like. strategically cash. Yeah. Um so but. Bitcoin and so and Bitcoin is one of. these assets first and then second the. world always needs a store of value. So for thousands of years gold is was. the store of value of choice. Meaning. you think about it how many currencies.

were there and many. thousands because by the way always. politicians mess it up. Always like pe. politicians can't be entrusted with. currencies. Full stop. It's always a bad. idea. Yeah. Always 100%. And so people. always had gold. Yeah. So, but gold is. is also people then say, "Oh, Bitcoin. has no value." Gold has no value. You. can't eat it. It's actually one of these. things like you can't eat it. It's maybe. nice to look at, but like it's just a. convention. It's just an agreement. humanity has. And I would go further.

It's embedded in our cultural system. There are so many fairy tales and things. about gold. But if you ask a. 10-year-old, for him it's Bitcoin. Bitcoin is his pop culture store of. value and that's exactly gold. So and I. think that shift has happened or is. about to happen that Bitcoin is at least. additionally to gold and someone will. completely make gold redundant. Yeah. Is. the new store of value and it's just you. can argue now what's the value of. Bitcoin because it's it's a it's a. convention. It's a deal society made.

that we accept that that's the value. Yeah. There's no nothing more meaning. you can add than say oh maybe bitcoin is. disrupting the financial but it's all. secondary. The main thing is, is it a. store of value or not? And for me, it is. a store of value. Yeah, that's sort of. the main driver of uh Bitcoin is the new. gold. That's enough, by the way, to make. it still go up dramatically compared to. gold. We could talk about this forever, but um. my last question, and this is definitely. my last question, is as you think. forward, you know, in your future, you.

you said at the start of this podcast. about visualizing every morning, you. visualize and you think about the things. that you want your future to hold. I. know if I said to you like what's the. end? There is no end. I get that because. I understand you're thinking this is a. continuous pursuit of your own hobbies. and interests. But when you visualize what you want. Christian's future to look like, say in, you know, a couple of decades from now, what are the like the principles of that. future? What are the characteristics of. it? I still want to look like today. You want to look super sexy and young. You want to look 20 years old. We're going to make that.

Yeah, we can do that on Photoshop. No, not on Photoshop. We're going to. make that in real life because I value. human connection. Photoshop doesn't work. because you want to be cyborgs anyway. So in virtual world so. well I think we're going to be cyborgs. I think we're going to that's one of the. drivers which I think is still human. We're going to merge with technology. We. already are meaning what is it called. like what you put on your heart like um. a stent or like whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Is. already like a cyborg. It's just very. early. Exactly. It's very So. but that's the whole point. I there is. no end game because that would be kind.

of sad. It's this what it's the same. like with work life balance to say if I. would just work because then you're back. at these famous sort of what was it a. novel from whom was it like that or. these old tale where the fisher is on. the the guy is on the beach and meets. the guy the story. yeah you know which one I mean like. where then it comes out oh he works his. ass off just to lie on the beach and. then the poor guy is saying why you. could lie on the beach now yeah that's. the whole point it's about the journey. it's not about an end point so I don't.

have an end point and I never had I just. like try to keep my again it's all about. keeping my life exciting because if it. wouldn't then I would want to die. So. keep my life cool. And this, by the way, this can change when maybe in 40 years. It's not I'm not a robot. Like this is. not gonna I'm not gonna be I'm I'm. maturing like or maturing like I'm I'm. changing in a positive way. Like uh. maybe in 40 years I decide that I don't.

think so, but I don't know like and it's. like the good thing is that I'm open for. I want to be already maybe in 40 years. I look I had now everything I had on a. in- entrepreneurship. Maybe I want to. you you feel yourself changing and. maturing in your. Yeah, but maturing is I want you don't. yet changing but in a in a good way that. again I'm trying to continuously analyze. what now we're back at the word soul or. whatever you would call it your inner. voice is telling you what is good for me. now and it might be that this is.

changing over time so for example I. decided decided is the wrong word like I. feel that it's getting time somewhere. and not urgently to getting children. like if you would have asked me 20 years. ago I would have said no I don't want. children like yeah so but it's like open. being open for that and maybe in 40. years I'm just making it up now as an. example not that I feel like maybe I say. look I want to be a singer now god. beware and the world is like no no no. because I but like maybe I have some new. ideas which really like are different.

what I'm doing now but like it's. important to stay open for that inner. voice because it might change and just. because again so far continuously. I. love doing what I do and exploring that. But like. you know what I mean? Like. I can get you. Yeah. So don't put an end point. There. is not this one thing because that would. be sad. Like if. most depressive day ever, isn't it? Exactly. Like. the day you lose all meaning sooner. Yeah. Well, listen, thank you so much for for. agreeing to do this. You are honestly. the one of the most fascinating people I. I've I've ever met. And I I'm not just.

saying. I want to win an Oscar by the way. I'm sure you do. No, no. There was one I want to be doing. something creative like I I. something artistic. Artistic. Yeah. So. I've I've gone through the same thing. since leaving social chain. I was like. I'm going to DJ. I'm I've done a big. That by the way I thought was very cool. when you told me that. I was like that's. a cool thing. I've got I've directed a theatrical show. with the the associate director of. Hamilton. It's it's theater. It's called. the Dire of Sea Live. It's the. theatrical version of my life. There's a. 50 person choir sold out already. And I.

said to myself that I didn't want to be. a label. So I don't want to be a social. media CEO. I'm a guy that has a bunch of. a perspective. And that perspective can. be applied to art, my book, which I. wrote myself, the show, creating music. I've got my first DJ performance at a. festival this year. And I just thought. what what if you detached yourself from. your labels? What kind of person would. you become? You'd become artistic. You'd. become healthcentric. You'd start. businesses. You know, for example, I always think I should. write the script because I can't act. when I could like when I'm not good in.

it. Also, you should be always. self-aware what it's not worth pursuing. But like I always maybe you should write. a script. I was like because I love. movies. I produce movies. So so I so I. was like maybe I should again but again. it's always listening to yourself what. your soul inner voiceever you want to. call it. Not society. Exactly. And not outside world is. telling you. You are the probably the most. interesting person I know in in a really. compelling way. Sometimes I know people. and they're like successful and they. think, "Oh god, I hate to be that. person." But you are in like a really.

compelling unique way because of your. work you do, but because of your. philosophy for life, because of this. sort of this I guess like almost I don't. know what the hell they they refer to. it, but this like how your how your. scientific view can can merge with a. spiritual one and a religious one, I. find super fascinating. I think it's. those sort of intersections that create. really interesting ideas. Um, you're. also the most hardworking person I know. Um, but you're also a really nice guy. Oh, thank you. You know, really like nice guy behind. the scenes as well. And so, thank you.

for coming on the podcast. I think, you. know, I think your future is going to be. staggering. I talk about you all the. time to my team, all the time. I'm like, you know, because you are very very. compelling in a number of really. positive ways. Uh I think I think uh the. work you're doing with AAI, Compass, and. all of your other companies are. staggering. And I think you're actually. going to be one of the most important. entrepreneurs, creators of our time. I. think the world is And I was like a very. bad. like I genuinely was like I know.

Christian coming on my podcast now. I. know in 10 years time this is probably. going to be one of my most viewed. podcasts ever because of the trajectory. you're on and the way you think. It's my. my prediction. I'm very rarely wrong. But thank you don't have to be like oh. you're so right. don't know what to say and then we mean. it. I do mean it. Um and it's been a. privilege to work with you over the last. couple of months and understand that. because it's been inspiring for me. Um thank you for doing this today. I. hope you've enjoyed it. Yeah I did. I did very much. Amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Cool. People ask me for book recommendations. all the time and I finally got one for.

you. It's a book called Happy Sexy. Millionaire which is authored by me. Um. I spent the last almost 2 years in. jungles around the world in Costa Rica. and Indonesia in solitude writing this. book. It's the there's this crazy thing. when you write a book because you you. spend so much time pouring your heart. and soul into it and everything you know. and all of the revelations you've had in. your life and then there's this barrier. which is that people have to buy the. thing in order for them to get that. thing that means so much to you. I wish.

that wasn't the case. It's just the way. the industry is and in order to get that. distribution and to get it on shelves, you need a publisher. So please, please, please, if you can, if you've ever liked. anything I've ever ever produced, this. podcast, my Instagrams, anything I've. ever said, read this book. There was no. ghost writer. I wrote every single word. myself. There's some real surprises in. there. It's an honest, sometimes. hilarious, incredibly vulnerable, hopefully valuable recount of my life, my journey, everything I've learned. across across the way. And really the.

answer to being fulfilled, to being. happy, and to achieving success. It is. the most important important thing I've. ever created. So, I implore you to go to. Amazon now or wherever you get your. books and get that pre-order. If you get. that pre-order, I'm going to put you. into a group with everybody that's. pre-ordered it, and I'm going to send. you some exclusive stuff. So, the first. things I'm going to do is a series of. voice notes, which I think are um are. going to be pretty powerful. I'm going. to give you access to some tickets, which nobody else will have, and I'm. going to do everything I can to thank. you for for for giving me that sort of 9. quid of your money or what whatever it. is. Happy sexy millionaire. You can.

pre-order it everywhere now. And if you. do get that pre-order, please do DM me. because I'd love to thank you myself.