Wolff: Bannon is Tearing off Musk's Face for Trump | The Daily Beast Podcast

Joanna Coles, chief content officer of the Daily Beast. We are tracking. Moment by moment, tweet by tweet. Truth social. By truth. Social. The fight between the richest man in the world. and the most powerful man in the world, and who has weighed in, ripping Elon. Musk's face off. But Steve Bannon. So we're getting straight into it with, of course, the man who is still inside. Donald Trump's head. The author, the bestselling author Michael. Wolff.

Michael. Steve Bannon is now back in the fray. He's making all sorts of demands, not least that Trump. investigate Elon's immigration status. It feels like it's been some time since we've heard of him. What is he doing now? Well, first thing that's what's what Steve is, is doing. and has been doing is looking for ways to get back in the fray. That's kind of his full time, job.

I mean, he's running this podcast. He's a podcaster. Well, yes. In his podcast, The War Room is, is is. is really about looking for ways to remain. relevant in, in Trump world. And he succeeds sometimes. because his audience the probably It's where they all crawl around, right? it really is the, the the inner inner. circle of magic, did, Steve Bannon feel?

I mean, obviously he was Trump's closest advisor, at least at the beginning of Trump one. Totally. I mean, this is really Elan Bannon with Bannon saying elan. as as taking his role, usurping his role. because Steve has continued to feel, against all of the evidence. that he would be called back to the white House, called back, besides Trump's side, which is curious because he hates Trump as as you all apparently does too.

But but pay no mind to that, of course, because everyone hates Trump. But yes. Abandon is I mean, they're, they're I mean, I think you can compare them, quite they, they align, What does Trump think of Bannon now? Does Trump want Bannon back. fear for Trump. Out out of sight is out of mind. It's like Steve who. Right. And it was very noticeable that after Steve came out of his four. months in sojourn at, the government's pleasure,

he wasn't greeted by any of the Trump crew. No, no. mean, Trump is never like Bannon. I mean, he fired him ignominiously. So what's in it for Bannon and to be ripping Elon's face off like this? I mean, he on his podcast, he also said that Trump should issue an executive order. employing the Defense Production Act, saying he should seize space X. Well, because everything in this world. is geared to an audience of one, which is Trump. you align with Trump in one of his battles.

Steve could come back on this on this basis. remember in the, you know, after the election and, you know, and the steel and, and all of this, all of the somewhat normal Trumpers, were, you know, cowering off in some corner, don't involve me with this. and then the crazies, led by Giuliani, came back in. So, yeah, if you again, it's a simple thing. If you say what Trump wants to hear, then you're in like Flynn.

So, yeah, I think Bannon has, this is an opportunity that he is seizing, he and I have known Steve for quite some time now. and have always been fond of him. You can't spend a, a moment with Steve Bannon and not find this. as one of the more enjoyable moments you've you've ever you've ever spent. Of course, he's, you know, it's you can then say all of the opposite. terrible things about Steve, which were all true, but in the moment.

he is, insightful and funny and, and even feels like your best friend. Well, I'm very mindful of the chapter in your book two famous, which takes place. at Jeffrey Epstein's house, his enormous house, supposedly. the largest private house in New York on the Upper East Side in Manhattan, where Steve Bannon is actually there, giving Jeffrey Epstein advice. about how he should handle the court case that is inevitably coming down.

towards them. What was their relationship like? Well, just it's just worth making the point here that Epstein then. becomes the nexus here with, with with Elon accusing Trump. of having a, hidden relationship with, with Epstein, which was, of course, true. They were friends for, for best friends for 15 years. But now also Steve, comes into and I think Elon.

is now accusing Bannon of an Epstein relationship. So, which he of course, had. and actually, this was a relationship I witnessed. and when I wrote about this, I mean, I, I've written, I've written all kinds of things about about Steve and was probably. the agent of, of getting him fired from the white House and, a while. You were the agent of getting Steve fired from the white House? Yeah. Because he he was he was the one of the central sources in Fire and Fury.

Your first book. Yeah. And that's what, you know, on the basis of that. Trump really cast him out of the, of the of the Trump. So are you and Bannon still on speakers? Oh, well, we're we're we're not actually, since I wrote about his relationship with Epstein. So it didn't really bother him that I managed. to get him fired from the white House, expelled from Trump world. But the Epstein thing is, remains too hot to handle.

did I did write about that. And I was there, you know, Bannon had this idea that he could rescue. Well, first just as a bit of background, these guys, met. each other after Bannon exited the white House. And they both were united by their relations with, with with Trump, who they, who they obsessed about and hated and, and and couldn't understand how how Trump was in the white House, and they would spend hours and hours and hours, trying to,

trying to, digest this central fact. in their, in, in both of their lives. But then when Epstein got in increasing trouble. and was then headed to, to his, ultimate and fateful denouement, Steve Bannon, had this idea that that, Epstein. should go on 60 minutes and do a mea culpa that that would save him.

and then Steve Bannon took it upon himself to tell Epstein how to do this. and brought in cameras to, to stage this in practice sessions. And I wrote about this and, and did Steve forgive me? And did Steve take part in, the sort of sex with underage girls? And, I, I'm, I don't want to to this my, stumbling here.

I don't want this to seem like I am dissembling. Because I'm not. I never saw anybody in Epstein world. take part in sex with underage girls. And, And I certainly did not see, see, Steve. I mean, the only thing I ever saw in the Epstein world was. a lot of men talking about, you know, things that. men talk about, like, but not sex,

politics, economics, power. Actually, let me say that they talked about power. That was their, their, their main. and I would say sole interest. So to me, the Epstein world, you know, I know it it's. all it gets, all it's all of the attention because of the girls. But it was really, to me, a world of men. Which is why Which is why Bill gates enjoyed going that. Exactly. Although I think he met a young bridge player.

at the same time while he was there. so why was Elon throwing Epstein. into the mix in his furious tweeting yesterday? Such, why was it so triggering? Because it seems to have triggered Bannon to go off. Yeah, I think it's one of those those mortal things. I mean, among the many mortal, our arrows that might hit Trump at any time. And there are so many of them. But the Epstein one seems seems to have.

a particular poison tip to And somehow he's avoided it. Nobody else is avoided, Epstein. Everybody else, if you get it. If if the suggestion is that you had a relationship, even an acquaintance with Jeffrey Epstein, that dogs you, right? We don't dogs. Or brings you down. Right. The heads of M.I.T., Alan Dershowitz. But not Trump. Who who, arguably, I would say indisputably.

has had the closest relationship with Epstein. I mean, they hunted girls together, hunt. I think being the being the exact right word. They you. They you. Describe. when you came on the podcast in November and we played some of the Epstein tapes, he talked about the maneuver that they would do where Donald would go. in and Epstein would go in, and they would often go in after a woman. who was there with a guy and Donald would start talking to the guy.

about finance, and Jeffrey would sort of siphon the woman off to the side. They actually had to sort of maneuver. Yeah. No. And they had there was, you know, they, they, they famously staged a beauty contest in, in Mar-A-Lago, and they imported all these girls who thought they were, you know, I don't know. They thought they were probably going to win a beauty contest. Exactly. And when the girls got there, they found that there were only. there was the, the audience and the judges consisted of two men,

Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. So this is this is what they did. This was their their one of their. I mean, they had two interests, girls and money. And they pursued them together for, for a long time, I actually, I would say three girls, money and airplanes. And power. Right. Girls money, airplane power. Yeah. I think that was during their in this period of time, which was sort of the 90s.

I think it was before. Before power. It was, it was girls, money, airplanes. And I think if you had said here is power. or here's girls, they would have, they would have taken the girls. I think maybe power is a function of. So. Older age. So but, mean, this was a close, close relationship. They shared a girlfriend. There was a bit of a period for about a year. that literally they shared they shared a girlfriend.

At the same time. Yes, at the same time. Who was that girlfriend? You know, I, I, I know. I don't I mean, I know this was a, this was a European girl, and but let me the poor girl. Let's let's. Not. All right? Let's move swiftly on. I know, poor thing is, is just, probably still in the fetal position. probably still in the fetal position. Epstein helped Trump cheat on his taxes, and then they.

And then they ultimately had a fall out, as all rich men. do over a piece of real estate. I know. This is. A I should. Just profound relationship. Right? I should just point out the white House call. You were lying sack of shit. They call me a lying. They call me a lying piece of shit. just want to raise that. As you say, that Epstein helped Trump cheat on his taxes. Yes, please. They claim that you They claim that you fabricate all sorts of things.

So I just want to push back on that. I will just say, and it's one it might be interesting because and and, yeah. And it is true. I don't know that this is true. I did not see, Jeffrey Epstein help Donald Trump, cheat on his taxes. but Epstein did spell out how he did this, which is that and that the the mechanism was, Donald Trump, borrowed all this money.

from the banks in the 1990s when he was going bankrupt. Oh, he didn't, but he had borrowed it. And then in the process of going bankrupt, the banks for gave. large amounts of his debt, like $1 billion in debt. They they forgave, they wrote it off, and, then Epstein would explain, well, when that happens, when banks forgive debt, that becomes income.

But there is no clear way in which that has to be declared. Therefore. Or if you don't do it, the chances are you're going to get away with it. scot free. And then Epstein would say, that's the reason that Trump has been hiding. his tax returns for so long, for so long, because that specific amount of money, the billion dollars in debt that he was, that he was forgiven, he never paid the tax on the on the imputed income from that.

which would have been, you know, half, 50%, half $1 billion. Okay. Well, we we can call the white House and ask them for comment on that. But in the meantime, I will just remind listeners that the White House's. response do is that you fabricate things in your lying sack of shit. Do you think Steve Bannon wants to run for president? You know, he says that to everyone. I think he tells everyone he's going to run for president in 2028. An Elon yesterday responded to a tweet. saying that he should be, that Trump should be impeached and that J.D.

Vance should be made president. Do you think that Elon Musk is serious about that? Well, I'm sure he feels that. I mean, I think Elon is. I mean, I mean, clearly has a blood score. against Donald Trump at this at this point. And, so I, he probably would like anything bad. to happen to, to, to Donald Trump. So yeah. Now the question is, I think, is how.

how, is he going to pursue this? And how would he how. Would I mean, here's the here's the thing. Everybody falls out with Donald Trump, everybody who works for him. falls out with him because he screws them and they are remain screwed. So Elon is the first person. who who I think has the, the resources and the temerity and the audacity. to, to not accept being screwed by Donald Trump.

and also, Donald Trump. has some sort of grudging respect for Elon because he's so rich. I mean, he lost, I think, $40 billion yesterday. Obviously on paper, and clearly doesn't care. yeah, well, Donald Trump's grudging respect, dissipates. very quickly if you become his antagonist. I'm mindful of the fact that both of them own social media platforms. When you came on the podcast earlier this week, you reminded us that.

Trump yes, he's president, but he's also head of Truth Social. And to some extent, this is the two of them playing. to their audiences, isn't it? I mean, both truth social and Twitter yesterday were on fire with the vehemence. with which these two men were were firing at each other. Yeah. It's you know, it's not only playing to the their audience, it's playing to their business model. If you own a social network, what what is the most valuable thing?

You know, conflict, right. Eyeballs. Yeah. Anthony Scaramucci said that another person to be fired, very publicly by Trump said that he thought. the Democrats should welcome back Elon Musk. At the time, it seemed like a somewhat lateral idea, but now it seems like actually rather a good idea. the contortions of that seem, seem beyond me, Well, what is that thing about your enemies? The enemy is your enemy.

Well, I can never remember that line, but. Well, I can never remember that line, contortions. know, I think, although you can certainly say, you know, Tesla is is, you know, has a brand problem. You know who bought Teslas? Liberals bought Teslas. Then Elon goes to work for Trump. The enemy of the liberals. They are for Tesla is my enemy. If he now becomes the enemy of Trump, then Teslas are my friend. I know. Trump has now said that he's giving his Tesla away.

I had a Tesla and gave it back, actually. But I will say largely because it really didn't work. And when I, endlessly complained about it and constantly tried to get it fixed, they told me it was from a rogue batch in November 21st, a rogue batch. They said, oh, that was a rogue batch. Wasn't very good. I had a car that was a lemon. It was annoying. All right. Well, we're going to stay tuned to this story. Who knows what Steve Bannon has said? In fact, I should check on Twitter that he hasn't said anything in the last ten minutes.

you should try to get Steve to come on this this podcast. We absolutely should. I would love to know what he's thinking. but Steve Bannon is trending. I'm just looking to see if he said anything else. Oh, he's saying let's fucking go. And, yeah. For all the Elon fanboys, Elon promised $1 trillion in cuts, but delivered rescissions with no teeth. Fanboys, grab your pencils. The GOP shot down the real fight. No fraud. Money was found from Social Security.

No waste cut. Just talk. But that would logically be. be a smear against Trump too. And then. Well, I think he. Person who hired Elon. Right. Although Howard Slotnick, also claims to have hired Elon. I don't see this as being very good for Howard Nick either. I had to I literally was in the room. when he said I had Elon, and I tell Elon what to do. You know, always the, the, aides around.

Trump have said the first one to go would be Elon. The second one to go would be look like. So let's see. Okay. So we'll be back here next week talking about hard learning that. Michael thank you. I, I suspect we're going to come back to you. so often over the next few days as this plays out. It does feel like it's a zero sum game at this point. I'm someone is going to have to win this or do you think it just fizzles out? it does feel that way. But I've often felt this that, that.

that someone was going to win, that Trump was going to lose. I guess I've often felt, and he never does. Well, he lost in 2020. I, He lost, you know, 2020. I, I'm not sure how you judge a loss that then becomes a win. Right. Okay. All right, Michael, thank you very much. All right, have fun. And, we'll be back to you soon. See you. So there you have it. The latest installment on the biggest fight going on right now.

And of course, both men owners of social media platforms, both feeding their audience the red meat of insults. And Steve Bannon now trying to elbow Elon Musk. out of the way to resume his place next to Trump's. side, will be continuing to cover this, with Michael. Stay tuned. This podcast was produced by Devin Roger Reno, Anna Von Ersan and it was edited by Jesse Millwood. And don't forget beast,