Why Trump Will Destroy Every Member of His Cabinet

Hello, I'm Joanna Coles. I'm the Chief Content Officer of the Daily Beast podcast. And thank you for your 3,000 comments. from last week on David Rothkopf. We have, I am confident, someone who's. going to provoke even more comments this week, Anthony Scaramucci. He's the financier. He's a political commentator. He's a podcast host. And of course, famously, he was the White House Communications. Director for Donald Trump during his first presidency. He has a very successful podcast, The Rest is Politics.

But he's got so many views about everything. If you ask Anthony any question, he's. got a strong point of view on the answer. So let's get into it. Anthony, very pleased that you're joining us. I should say we're recording this on a Monday. and you're in London. And here, of course, people are reeling. from the news of President Biden's health diagnosis. He's got aggressive prostate cancer, which. has metastasized to his bones.

You've been in the White House. Admittedly, it wasn't for a long time. But you totally understand how the White House works. How realistic is it that President Biden, who. was still in office only four and a half months ago, wouldn't have known that he had a diagnosis of prostate cancer? Well, I'm going to answer it in two different ways. OK, so I'm going to answer my honest opinion. I don't think it's realistic. And these tests, like the Khaleesan score, the PSA test,

and the things that we're doing now from a diagnostic. perspective-- you told me, Joanna, that he had a very obscure, hard to understand disease, one out of 300 million people have it and they missed it. OK, but this is something that most men, unfortunately, are going to get before their lifetime is over. And he's an elderly man. And also, he sent out some weird tweets last year. that he sent out one tweet that he was sick. And then they reached--. Re-examined.

--the decree. So I think that--. so I don't think so. But I'm going to answer it differently now. So that's answer number one. Answer number two, forget about what I think. John Maynard Keynes, the great economist, was brilliant in the US stock market. And so why are you so brilliant? He said, well, it's not for me to judge beauty. I'm in a beauty pageant. It's not for me to judge beauty. It's for me to judge what the other judges think is beautiful. So that's how I pick stocks.

And it's not for me to tell you. I'm telling you the other judges, the court of public opinion, nine out of 10 people are going to answer the exact same way. that I'm answering the question. So whether it's true or not, and whether if Joe Biden 100%. dead to rights just learned about this stage four cancer. yesterday, even if that's 100% true, it doesn't matter for the conversation, Joe, and it because the people don't believe that. And that's their reality, no matter what they're going to say.

So, and I would be remiss in saying that my heart goes out, damn, he served the country for 50 plus years. He lost his son, his son fought in the wars, the Gulf Wars. He lost his son untimely death 10 years ago. So my heart goes out to him and his family. But I had a early copy of the Jake Tapper book. I have it here in my hotel room. Original sin. Original sin. I read it this weekend. If that is true, and if it is true, this is political enron.

This is a scandal as bad as Watergate. You can't tell me that you're taking oaths to the Constitution. and you've got somebody now that is not capable of doing. the job that he's in and you're not removing him. Now, we had that experience with Woodrow Wilson. about 110 or so years ago. When his wife, in fact, it turned out, was basically running the--.

Exactly, exactly. So we've done it before, but we also know that it's wrong. And we set up additional amendments. to our Constitution since then, the 25th Amendment. People said, okay, we don't want the Edith. and Woodrow Wilson thing to happen again. So let's not do that. But there's a ton of willing accomplices here. that have broken their oaths to the Constitution. And so, okay, you want to rail on Trump? I'm not saying you, Joanne. I'm saying you and the second person. A person wants to rail on Trump, no problem. Trump told 31,000 lies, according to the Washington.

Post, in his four years' first term. He's on track to tell 40,000. It's like the Aaron Judge of lying. I mean, this guy's very consistent. He's gonna blow out lies left and right. But this is a meta major lie. Okay, and again, I'm not trying to be what aboutism, but you're telling people that somebody is totally on it. and he's not. And it comes out that you guys lie to everybody.

It's just a really bad look for them. And it's consequential. I think they've created a real chasm of distrust, which has caused these polling numbers to be bad. Do you think that President Obama, who I know you were at law school with at Harvard, do you think he's also guilty here too? 'Cause yes, there are the advisors around Biden. who were criticized and we know who some of them were. But if you think of President Obama leading.

President Biden off the stage, when they did one of the big fundraisers in Manhattan, not long before the debate, to what extent do you think the Democrats. were really in the know, the important Democrats were really in the know here? Well, I think they were all in the know. And again, there's a legal, there's a spirit of the law, there's a letter of the law. President Obama's out of office, so he's not one of his cabinet members, he's a private citizen.

But he's been president. I understand that he, so the spirit of the law would suggest. that he had a responsibility to tell his fellow citizens. that a man, he selected the B Vice President, who probably 10 years ago could very capably do the job. at age 81. And remember, you know, to an I wanna be very sympathetic to Joe Biden, he's had tragedy in his life. You know, they have studies. when you have this level of tragedy in your life, the cortisol in your body, the stress in your body can also manifest itself.

as you're getting older. He's lost children on timely car accidents. He lost his first wife in an untimely tragic car accident. He lost his son. There's a lot going on there. So I wanna be sympathetic to him. But yes, I think Biden had a, Obama had a responsibility to tell us. that President Biden was incapacitated, but he could say to you on this podcast, "Well, that's not really my responsibility. I wasn't sworn in.". These other people were sworn in,

even staff was sworn in. Isn't there a moral responsibility? When you're seen, I mean, and to some extent it was hiding in plain sight, right? He was literally leading Joe Biden from the stage. at Radio City at the big fundraiser that they have, where they raised $25 million, which is a very successful fundraiser. But it was clear that the president. didn't actually know where he was supposed to. - Yeah, I mean, also, but in this book, Original Sin, George Clooney is quoted as saying,

"He stared right at me, didn't know I was. I have executives in New York that I've spoken to, longtime Democratic big time donors. They've said that they've gotten a sheet of glass look. from President Biden when they're talking to him. He doesn't, they have his cell phone number in their phones. They've known him for 30, 40 years. He doesn't recognize them.". - I would only say on that one. that a lot of people in his position, or admittedly there aren't that many people. in the presidential position, but people who meet a lot of people,

it's very easy to fail to recognize. - Okay, I understand, but I mean, George Clooney is a big leap for me though. - True. - Okay, and also he had been a big fundraiser too. - I wanna ask you this, I'm gonna push it back to you for a second. This little bit of what aboutism is gonna go on now, right? Because now there are people out there. that say Trump is slurring his words. He's walking with an unsteady game. - Game to ask you about this. - Yeah, I'm gonna ask you and then you ask me, but so here's the problem now. If it comes out in two or three years, yeah,

the guy was demented in the White House, but we let it happen. Is this the society that we're going into now? If we move the goalposts so far. that we're now willing, just because the person's in our tribe, he's on our team, we're gonna stretch ourselves. Now, Trump has told you by the way. that you can put classified information, war plans out on social media apps, no problem.

Direct violation of several laws, privates in the Marine Corps or the army. would be court-martialed immediately discharged. But Trump is telling you, you can be the defense secretary now. and have no, nothing happened, you no recourse for that. And so is that where we are now? Have we moved the goalposts so far away. from the neo-Victorian era in our country. where we did things properly? Even people like Richard Nixon caught red-handed,

bows out and stays consistent with the Constitution. Are we now going so far to the other side now. that it's over? What do you say to that, are we? First of all, you worked with Donald Trump. during his first administration. Do you see a decline in him. between Trump one and Trump two? A little, I'm not in the Trump dementia camp me. I'm in the Trump--. You have not yet been diagnosed. with Trump derangement syndrome. Well, the Trump people,

I think I have Trump reality syndrome. I think I see him for exactly who he is and what he is. And I see the nefarious nature to him. and I see the madness to him, the smoldering anger to him. You know, there's a lot of pain in that man. that he wants to inflict on the society. And he wants to project that into the society. and he gets pleasure out of inflicting that pain. on other people. And so the culture has swung into a populist movement. There's a lot of people that feel left out.

When people feel left out, Joanna, they want other people to feel pain. You know, he's become an orange wrecking ball. for those people. He's an avatar for their anger. Okay, you're gonna smash the Daily Beast? Oh, great. You're gonna smash Anthony at the rest of politics, US? That's great. You're gonna take on Stephanie Ruhl, who's reporting about you accurately in MSNBC. Bruce Springsteen, you know, you're gonna go after Bruce. Come on, the boss. But I mean, you're asking, have we got to that point in the culture?

The press is constantly pointing this out, right? Or the independent press is constantly pointing this out. And one of Trump's responses is to go after them. So we've seen him repeatedly go after Caitlyn Collins. at CNN, repeatedly go after ABC. He's certainly come after the Daily Beast. How does this, you were the White House. communications director. What do you think about that policy. for his relationship with the press?

How does Caroline leave it doing? Well, okay, if you're a MAGA person, she's doing beautifully. If you're a realist and you're an objective person, she stains herself every day with the morose lies. But she's, her assignment is to lie on behalf. of the president of the United States, lie with shamelessness, lie with incredulity. And so that's what she's doing. You know, I, she was an intern. when I was there that summer. She was 18 or 19 years old, a confident, smart person.

She's a talented person, but she's lying with impunity. You know, Spicer was too Catholic for that. He couldn't lie with that level of impunity. He always looked disheveled and guilt ridden. when he was telling you that the crowd size. was bigger than it was. I wasn't gonna do that. That's one of the reasons why I got fired. Right, no, I'm a straight shooter. And, you know, you can stay young and healthy. if you're honest with people, you know? Ed Koch had a great line, Joanna. You're not giving me the cancer, I'm giving you the cancer, you know?

Meaning, meaning I'm gonna tell you what's up. and not hold back, you know? And, you know, she does some shameless things. So MAGA world thinks she's doing a good job. I think she's stainless. She'll end up working at Fox News. or something like that when this is over. And she'll be in an echo chamber of her self-righteousness. She's hurting the country with the lies. You know, Trump is hurting the country. Shady Vance, the funny part about Vance and Rubio, see, they're not stupid, those two, right?

They're both Catholics. So there's 50 million voting eligible Catholics in the US. 30 million of them have registered. If 5% of the 30 million are Orthodox Catholics, meaning they follow the Pope, they're gonna lose one and a half million votes, those two. You see, that's why they're flying back and forth. to the Vatican. You know, they know how close these elections are. And if the Pope turns on them as Father Bob Prevost. turned on J.D. Vance as recently as three and a half months ago.

and said, "No, you're absolutely wrong. in terms of the selective biases of your love, you know, Jesus' love is universal.". So these guys are flying back and forth. They don't wanna lose the Catholic vote. And again, even if it's a sliver of it, right? So it's so contrived and it's so transparent. I wanted to ask you about Elon Musk. I wanted your impression of how he had done. And also you were in and out of the White House fast.

He's now spun out of the White House. What is your advice for him in terms of his image rehab? Well, he'll never take my advice, but my advice is the advice I gave Gavin Newsom, bring him back. This guy was a lifelong Democrat. He was a builder of electric cars. There is no way Lyndon Johnson would have led Elon Musk. or Bobby Kennedy Jr. out of his party. Johnson had a great line, "I want all the elephants in the tent.

This way when they got a piss, they'll piss outside the tent. Don't let an elephant outside the tent. They may piss into the tent.". But don't you think that Elon might have damaged himself. too much to be taken back by the Democrats? Why would the Democrats want to bring him back after Doge? Well, well, well, Joanna, that's the problem with the Democrats. See, they're so self-righteous. and they're so quick to cancel everybody. Bring them back, okay? Make them the prodigal son. Say, Elon, okay, you screwed up with Doge, but you are delivering transformative cars.

and transformative rocketry. And we made a mistake by not inviting you. to the Electric Vehicles Summit. and we want the $44 billion bullhorn, the bugle, that you own to be more neutral. Come back into the party, refurbish your brand. and invite them back. The Democrats want to cancel everybody. You know, I was told by two Democrats--. It's such an interesting, it's a brilliant piece of black--. No, but what the hell are you guys doing? Stop the righteousness.

and get into the common sense real politics. Bring Bobby, whose family's lifeline. Come on, it's Bobby and Jack Kennedy. You're taking the sun and kicking them out of the party, letting them work for Trump. What the hell's wrong with you guys? They wouldn't even take the guy's call. So are you now, are you, I mean, have the Democrats taken you back? I know you've got--. No, I'm not, first of all, I've been a registered Republican. I gave Obama money 'cause we went to school together. Yeah, and you supported Hillary at one point. I did, but for the Senate, everyone says that.

I've supported her for the Senate. Okay, but you supported Joe Biden and Carmella. Well, yeah, because my priority is my patriotism, patriotism and love of country first over partisanship. I know how dangerous Donald Trump is. So I would like the Constitution to sustain itself. We probably need a few amendments. and some refurbishment of the Constitution, but I don't want a project 2025 destruction. of the Constitution and the salt.

on our decentralized government. 'cause there's a bunch of right-wing loons. Why do you, or do you think the Democrats. have learned from their sanctum money? I mean, you're completely right about the council culture. The Democrats are trying to, they're searching for a more perfect form. of progressive socialism. You know, we didn't quite get the. progressive socialism perfect. So Bernie and I are gonna go out on the road. and see if we can perfect it. And they're like, what do you guys do?

And by the way, Trump's laughing at that. Just so you know, Trump is laughing at them. because he knows where the country is. He knows it's primarily a center-right country. You know what Trump once told me about his base? Can I tell you what he said? Tell him, okay. He said, you know, you guys on Wall Street. are a bunch of imbeciles. I said, okay, why is that? He said, well, you're a social liberal. and you're a fiscal conservative. I said, that's true. That's how I see myself, socially inclusive,

fiscally responsible. He goes, yeah, you're a dummy. You know what my base is? Now what's your base, Mr. Trump? My base is socially conservative and fiscally liberal. Okay, so we understand that? He understands his base better than you do. and better than I do, frankly. And so they want a tighter restriction on abortion. and they want unlimited government spending. There were placards and signs. that are in the Tea Party Revolution. Get your government hands off of my Medicare.

Yeah, I remember that. Excuse me, that's a government program. Oh, it is, okay, let me put the sign down. Well, and they're not in favor of gay marriage. And they're not in favor of gay marriage. It's a big problem for Buttigieg. Buttigieg is their most talented guy, perhaps, but he's gay and that's gonna be a problem. for him in a general election. And by the way, I'll probably get canceled now. that I said that, you know, 'cause I don't care, I would vote for him. Doesn't matter to me, but I'm just being honest. about the culture and the zeitgeist. of the American society that we live in.

And so if I were a Democrat and I told Newsom this, have a summit meeting, get your act together, make your party open its tent, become pro-democracy, pro-constitution, pro-America, and bring everybody in that's not MAGA. Okay, and this is what we did. We did this once before in the 1850s. We created a new party in 1856 called the Republicans.

And the Republicans went after the Whigs. that were abolitionists, and they went after the Democrats that were abolitionists, and they put them in the same party. and they killed the Whigs. They killed the Whigs. - What did Gavin Newsom say when you suggested this? - He was very honest. He says, "It would be very hard to do. We have very, here are the moves. I'm right, you're wrong, I'm righteous.". Move number two. Oh, you said something I didn't like. You're canceled, can't go to my reindeer games. So I helped Vice President Harris on the debate prep.

I had lines in there that she deployed. They invited me to the spin room, to help her in the spin room. - How interesting. - On the night of the debate. - And were they confident. that they were going to win the election at that point? - I don't think they were confident. that they were gonna lose the election. I never thought that they thought. that they were gonna outright win the election. I thought that they thought. that their ground game was more nuanced. and was broader than Trump's. And I thought that they thought. they could beat them on the ground. I thought they were always worried.

that she only got 107 days to make her case. to the American people. And one thing that the Democrats do to each other, they eat each other's young. So when Hillary Clinton gets nominated for the presidency, the Sanders people, some of them go vote for Trump, and some of them don't show up. - Depending on this. - Yeah, they don't get the crossover voting. To Clinton's credit, she campaigned for Obama.

and a lot of her primary voters in '08 went for Obama. Okay, you know what the Republicans do? They move like the march of the wooden soldiers. Okay, they don't, okay, my guy's out. Who's your guy? I'm voting for your guy. - Okay, and so you're not giving yourselves a chance. if you're not willing to give the opponent. that you lost to the crossover vote. - Okay, so Anthony, you think that Pete Buttigieg. can't probably get elected because he's gay? Who, when you look out across the--.

- I'm dead now, Joanna. That's gonna be the headline that comes out of this. - There are many headlines that are gonna come out. - But I just wanna clarify that. I like Pete Buttigieg and I would vote for him tonight. - And he's a very effective spokesperson. - And I think he's their most talented person. And I would vote for him tonight. Okay, so I just wanna make sure that's also in there. I have no problem with him. I'm just telling you, as a political realist, having traveled into these areas, 71 campaign stops with Donald Trump,

30 years of presidential politics under my belt, as a fundraiser or a media advocate, shaking hands with countless people, red people and blue people and purple people. It's gonna be hard for him. because there's a Christian conservatism, there's a Christian orthodoxy, there's literal interpretations that are going on. in this country related to the Bible. And it's gonna be hard for him. And by the way, I think it's unfair.

I was one of the people that raised money in 2008. to flip those Republican senators in New York. to make the same-sex marriage legal in New York. I have gay family members like everyone else does. I want there to be equality. I'd love to see him prove me wrong. How about that? Well, and I would love to see Tras Dain. as first gentleman, actually. I think they would be an interesting couple. But let's, Pete is one candidate. and who knows whether or not he can overcome. the social conservatism that is still very much part.

of the bedrock of America. Who are the other candidates. that you think might be viable? Is Gavin you-. I think Gavin is viable. I think he is a attractive guy in so many different ways. Okay, I'm not talking about his physicality. I think he's got good messaging. He's a good governor. He ran, he runs, you know, they give California, California and globalism need to fire their ad campaign. director and they need new air campaigns.

Okay. The negative publicity around globalism is ridiculous. Who the hell won that narrative? Globalism is helpless society. It's made people richer. It's lifted billions of people out of poverty. Globalism, which is what our grandparents, our neo Victorian grandparents like Ackinson and Marshall. and Truman and Eisenhower, they wanted this for us. And it's been successful in taming the interness.

and tribal conflicts out there. This systemic rise of nationalism now, born from a lack of memory of the war, war is a problem. for us and good leadership would teach people. how to cheat history, to remind them of the civic virtue. of our unity as opposed to using it as a political trope, our differences, which poor leaders like Donald Trump do. Right, and they lean into the America front. Yeah, and they want to create hatred. and they want to divide everybody.

This is stupid, okay? But secondarily, California, California is the fourth. largest economy in the world. If you took it out of the United States, you don't want to give Newsom any credit for that? Yeah, does California have, you know, Jamie Dimon calls it blue tape. 'cause it's mostly inspired by Democrats. It's not red tape. They stopped building, they have all these environmental. codes that are useless and nonsensical. and they do need reform and they need bail reform. But California is an amazing economic enterprise.

and Gavin would be a very good president. if he could win the presidency. But the labeling of a California liberal. is, I asked Kamala Harris about the labeling. of a California liberal in this case. If you don't think this country is center right, think of what I just said about the words. California liberal. I want to push back on you on one thing, which is that the whole concept of the California liberal. is parts of Los Angeles and parts of San Francisco, which feel unlivable, right?

And you have homeless cities who have openly taking drugs. in the center of San Francisco. Yes, they've got a new mayor now, Daniel Laurie, who appears to be doing a very good job. But you think of, you know, Karen Bass, mayor of Los Angeles in Ghana, despite the fact she'd been told the Santa Ana winds. were about to deliver a firestorm like nobody'd seen before. And you can see why people feel that Democrats. have had control of California for the last 20 years.

And it feels chaotic to a lot of people to live there. There's pressure on water, there's pressure on the climate. The cities are, there are places that you can't go. So I can see why California liberals. have got the reputation they have. Listen, I'm stepping over homeless people here in New York. And, you know, I mean, I was outside the Nick game. the other night, I smelled like a skunk out there. I mean, we just got in a nation of pot smokers. I'm not in love with the fact that I can't go. into the local drug store without having to get somebody.

unlock the plastic to get me. So I got it, there's a failure. And that's a new democratic rule. I mean, we've had democratic mess, democratic governance. Okay, but if you had, let me test this messaging on you, okay? Democrats have made a mistake. They over tipped, okay, due to virtue and empathy. on bail reform, they have to come back to the middle. Democrats have over tipped on certain environmental measures. and blue tape in California.

They have to come back to the middle. But do Americans want more inclusion? Do Americans want a fairer, more aspirational, progressive society? Remember the word progressive was started. by a Republican named Teddy Roosevelt. Do we want that? And I believe that the answer is yes, we want that versus authoritarianism. We want that versus a neo-populism that splits the country. The first name of the country is United.

It's not the dis United States of America. There are ways to fix these problems if we stop bickering. and we get in the middle and oh, by the way, there'll be five things that I want that you will hate. And there will be five things that you may want. that I will hate, but can we reach a consensus together. or should we tribally beat each other's brains in. to the point where we run a $40 trillion budget deficit, we lose our standing with our allies, we create a dysfunctional trading system.

in the world because we have one orange maniac. that doesn't understand the economic principles. that started post-Second World War order, the rules-based society that has created tremendous prosperity. and tremendous innovation globally. So come on guys, come on, we're smarter than this. We're not smarter than this. Of course we're smarter than this. So who can take the Democrats to the place. that you want them to go?

Who can unite the party? Who can say we should bring back Elon Musk? We should include Bernie and AOC. - I don't know, but I would say the Democrats do better. with people in their 40s. Jack Kennedy, Barack Obama when he was in his 40s, Bill Clinton, 46, Obama, 47, Jack Kennedy, 43. - So you're saying Gavin Newsom is too old. What about Gretchen Wetner? - Well, listen, I'm probably dead.

I'm probably gonna get canceled now because of you, Joanna. - He's already been canceled because of you. - I've been canceled a few times, but this could be the big--. - You're gonna get canceled because of yourself. - No, this could be a big deal. It's all because you've provoked me. to answer these questions truthfully. So this could be a big cancelization for me, which is fine. - It's the second cancellation. - Yes, it won't be the first time it's been canceled. I'd probably be able to come back from it. But let me just say this to you, okay? She's a very effective governor.

A very effective administrator. She has no Riz. You know what the Riz is, girl? You know what the Riz is? - Yeah, of course, charisma. - Yeah, no Riz, okay, forget it. - Gretchen Wetner has no Riz, interesting. - She has no Riz. Come on, you don't do this. Look at me, you don't do this. You don't cover your face when you're in the Oval Office. You put memes out after it, did you? - Well, it's a who has got Riz. I agree with you about Riz. I agree with you. This was his collaborative competition at this point. - Gavin's got Riz, but Gavin's gotta get off. the Hamlet shit and he's gotta commit.

and he's gotta go hard at it. Buttigieg has Riz, but he's gonna have to do. what Obama and Jack Kennedy did. He's gonna have to say, okay, I'm gay. It's not gonna matter how I govern. Same way Kennedy said I'm Catholic. It's not gonna matter how I'm, oh, by the way, if you haven't noticed, I'm black. and Jeremiah Wright is my reverend. and I don't give a shit. and that's not gonna influence how I govern. - And my middle name is Hussain. - Yes, you're gonna need that, right, Zach, you're gonna need that transcendental moment. for Buttigieg for the arrest of the people.

who say, you know what, I don't care what he does. with his personal life, which I honestly don't. He's gonna be a good administrator. He's a smart guy. He's great on policy. He's very thoughtful. And I, you know, Buttigieg is a safe pair of hands. where I believe he would--. - All right, so let me ask you one thing on Pete, which is--. - I knew some Buttigieg ticket. Okay, now the women will be mad at me. for saying that probably, but I just think that you probably, if I were them, I would probably do something like that. Okay, I think that would be formidable.

- We had on the podcast last week, David Rothkoff, who made the point that actually all the FAA problems. really it's unfair to leave at the door of Sean Dutley, the current transport secretary, that actually Pete Buttigieg as the previous transport secretary. should have been figuring this out, should have been investing in the technology, especially at, which is the biggest airspace in the country. So that would hurt him in an upcoming presidential race. I mean, they're not gonna kill him. And because again, it's a, listen,

Trump has been literally shot at. Trump has been literally, you know, convicted as a felon and he's lived and he got there. You know, so it doesn't matter. There's a feel here, there's a feel here. - Okay, and you think Pete and Gavin. could be a winning combination? - Possibly, yeah. - Is there anybody else? What about Alissa Slopkin that the party put forward. to respond to Trump after the State of the Union? - So she seems very capable, but do you know the number one thing you need.

to win the presidency? The number one thing you need? - Name recognition? - That's it. Name recognition. - I would argue she doesn't have quite enough risk either. She may be risk, but right now it doesn't feel like she's--. - But she doesn't have the name recognition, you know? And so, and but, you know, look, you also remember. in fairness to Vice President Harris, at that time she was running against. the most famous person in the world. Hillary Clinton was running against. a top 100 famous guy, okay?

But now he is the most famous person in the world. - Well, he's not gonna be running again. Do you think-- - No, no, no, I understand that, but I'm just saying, you gotta understand what you're up against. You know, these other guys are gonna push themselves. very hard in the next three and a half years. to get their fame and notoriety out there. - If you had to put money on it right now, who do you think would be Trump's successor? - Nobody in Trump's cabinet is gonna be Trump's successor. That's my prediction. - Wait, Observate. What a brilliant observation. He's gonna see them off, right?

- Yes, he's gonna put them all in the wood chipper. He's gonna disgrace every one of them. You ever see that scene in Fargo? I mean, he put Vance in the wood chipper twice so far. And Vance is walking around with any feet. 'cause he chopped up his feet. We're only gonna pardon the nonviolent J6 nurse. - Right, that happens. - Trump gets pissed 'cause they all show you, you know, and then he yells at Vance. - He's like the boss. from hell. - Then he yells at Vance. - He's the boss from hell. Everything you say he undermines you. - Yes, he has to. So Vance is Pence, so he's gonna become irrelevant.

Rubio is gonna become irrelevant. because he's lost the plot. He has no principles and he's completely disingenuous. - And he's lost his soul at this point. - Yeah, any politician that could come in there. would just cut him to ribbons. You know, it's not gonna be Chris Christie. It's not gonna be Haley. It'll have to be a Younger. It could be a Yonkin. It could be a Yonkin. - Yonkin, right. Or could it be Donald Trump Jr.? - So I don't think, and by the way, he is very popular with MAGA,

but I don't think he's gonna cross the Rubicon. into that realm of the political world. I just don't see him doing it, but if he does it, he could get the nomination. And then you're gonna have to go against him. because he's very popular with the MAGA people. - And he's got great name recognition. - Yeah, so I mean, that's possibility, but I don't see him wanting to do it, frankly. So I think that's one thing you say that you wanna do.

to keep your name out there, but I don't think down deep he really wants to do it. - I have one more question for you on politics. I just wanted to know when you're in a room. with Donald Trump, what is everybody sort of against each other? Is it every man for himself? Or is there a sense of camaraderie? Like this is the mad king. We're all sort of texting under the table, we're all eye rolling at each other, we're all looking at each other. - No, the Trump one was MAGA working for Trump,

RNC working against Trump. Trump gets the nomination, RNC gets dragged into the win. And now because the RNC is the RNC, they put guys like previous. and they cook guys like Spice, I call him Liar Spice, like every Spice girl's got a nickname, his is like Liar Spice, right? You never seen buddy Li, the poor son of a bitch doesn't even lie, right? At least Trump can lie with just perfect shamelessness, right?

But so those guys merged with MAGA, and that's why the blow-up started, and that's why the, ultimately Trump won the establishment Republicans. beat Donald Trump. And that's why it was a halfway decent presidency, wasn't a complete disaster. The spirit animal of the family for Trump one. was Jared Kushner. He's a sober guy, he's balanced, he's trying to solve problems, Abraham Accords.

The spirit animal from the family for Trump two. is Don Jr. And Don is all about MAGA, make Trump, allow Trump to be Trump, are you passing the MAGA lit mis-test? Yes I am. And then they go and do everything that they're told to do, like a good little doggy, you see what I'm saying? And so that's why this has become such an unmitigated disaster, because he's coming down from Mount Evil. with the unholy tablet, you know, he's like Orange Moses with the unholy tariff tariff tablet.

And he's like, nobody even understands it, but they're all out there pretending that they do. Right, is there any logic to the tariffs? You're a finance girl, what do you offer? There's no logic to the tariffs, it's just literally ridiculous. when him and Navarro came up with to the point. where, you know, Bassett was beside himself. The good news is Trump has gotten bored now. of the whole thing, and he realized, remember, there's one angel on Trump's shoulder saying, you know, I could do a halfway decent job about this,

I still have some popularity. And then there's a devil on the other side, says, you know, I can make 200 billion for my family, where am I gonna rate this money in from? And that's what's going on all day with Trump. You know, he plays to his star sign perfectly, he's a Gemini, there are two people trapped inside one body, and you got one good side and one really rotten side, and that's the fight all day. But you asked a really good question, Trump won, they're texting under the table,

the guy's nuts, he's George III, let's cut the nonsense. Trump too is, hey, I like flying on Air Force One, what are we doing today? What are we gonna fuck up today on planet Earth? Oh, wait a minute, I may have to run for president, I don't wanna piss off the Pope, let me fly to the Vatican. - Oh, how depressing. How much money do you think Trump personally made. from his trips to the Middle East last week? - Well, I mean, listen, the $400 million plane. was a distraction. Joanna, look over here, look over here,

the $400 million I'll pay. While I'm making a couple billion for my family. with real estate deals and side deals and charity donations. and all kinds of stuff. I mean, if you don't see that, I mean, I don't understand why the media. takes the bait every time, okay? I mean, he tells you his playbook, he then operates the playbook and the people act. in the same absurd, predictable way. I don't know, you tell me, yeah, why is that? - Well, that's why I'm asking you the question, right?

Because clearly there's something going on over here, but there's a reason that he's there. I think your point is--. - Not just the middle, he's got a small Chinese. company that's writing him a big check into his mean coin. so they can go to dinner with him. He controls 80% of the mean coin, they've made a billion dollars off the crypto stuff. - And the markets have been rolling back and forth. How long does this go on for? - Well, the other thing is they're trading the market. So you look at the options activity, they're trading the market to like tariffs on,

short the market, okay, we're gonna take the tariffs off. in a few hours, go along the market, tariffs off, it's like karate kid, wax on, wax off, wax on, wax off. - So what are your friends and finance? You run a financial advisory, what are people saying? - They're scared shit of Trump, scared shit of Trump. He took out all their lawyers, okay, he scolded all their lawyers and got settlements. from all of them. Their boards are telling them, hey, don't say a word about the guy, he'll come after your family,

he'll come after your business, keep your mouth shut. And they call me and they say, okay, all right, I voted for the guy, but you were right, I didn't expect he would be this bad. That's what they say, okay? And then you got guys like Bill Ackman, then you got guys like Bill Ackman, and I feel bad for the guy because it's like, when I read his tweets, it's like his tongue came out. like a bow tie, the words are so twisted, you're like looking at him, oh my God, the poor guy has got to lie like this. And it's ego based, it's all ego based. I got something wrong rather than say,

hey, I got this wrong, the guy's a maniac, they try to pretend that he's not, and then they're making pretzels. and bow ties with their tongues. And you're a very good example of someone. who went from being a supporter of his. or certainly working for him to being a--. No, he's a big supporter, I'm not a--. Okay, but you're an old-skoken, Christic of-- I'm not a barrister in my life. I've come from nothing, I've come from nothing, I've made some good decisions in my life. and some bad decisions. You know, my wife hates Trump.

almost as much as Melania hates him, and I'm talking that's like way up here. I mean, it's incredible, Mel's a patriot, and she didn't want me to do it. I almost got divorced over it. I had this conversation with you and Gaye Tlaise. that one day at the universe. or the paddle tennis club, wherever it was. I'm not proud of the decision, but I own the decision. I saw him as potentially helping the people I grew up with. I thought he was going to help them, I got it wrong. And then I tried to stay loyal to him after I got fired.

I was loyal to him for two years after I got fired, it became impossible. I love my country more than I'm a partisan. I'm a patriot first and a partisan second. I'm sorry, I can't allow somebody to do this. without calling it out. - Anthony, my point is you were a staunch supporter of him. You went to being an outspoken critic. and guess what, you're still standing. You still have a business, you're still operating. In fact, you're more successful than ever. You've got very strong points of view of it. Why is everybody so scared of him?

Why can't people push back? - Okay, so I mean, there could be something to the fact. that he knows that he attacked my wife on Twitter. and he knows I'm a New Yorker. I would never tolerate something like that. And so they more or less leave me alone. They know I'm not interested in political office. They know I'm a political pundit and a business person. Okay, I'm not at a big money center bank. If I was at a big money center bank mouthing off, I think they would come hard at me.

Or they come hard at Springsteen. because he controls a slice of the culture. You see what I mean? You know, a big money center bank, they'd go hard. - Right, but Bruce Springsteen also goes straight back. at Trump. I mean, what is it about? - Well, I mean, they feel they're hard. - Well, he's an artist. See, I love him because he's telling you, I'm an artist. This is what I feel. This is the love I have for my country. And I don't care. - Okay, and so it's like I say to my wife,

I'm named after somebody that landed on Normandy Beach. 81 years ago, my uncle Anthony. - Right. - Now he was decorated as a World War II veteran, won the Purple Heart, okay, got the congressional, not the congressional medal order, but the Silver Star. He got the court of gear from France. And he was, you know, I mean, I don't know, he was a role model. If he could fight for the country, I'm gonna fight for the country. - Why aren't business people more able to stand up?

- They're afraid and they have equivocated. I could have easily, Joanna, I could have easily gone back to my job, kept my mouth shut, gone to the Hamptons, hung out, not been on the Daily Beast podcast and just relax. I could have done that. Or I could say, hey, this is not right. I got to where I am because of the constitution, the flat decentralized nature of the government. You know, I'm talking to you from London.

You have a monarchial structure here. and you have a class system. - I know, that's why I moved to America. - Okay, but as a result of which, the country went hard left. Okay, 'cause the country went hard left. because the people said, hey, I can't get ahead. They're qualifying my accent. I'm from Bethno Green, they won't let me get ahead. Or I'm from here, my father was a baker, I can't get ahead. So the country has gone to the left. In the United States, because the system is flat, there's no monarch.

You know, yeah, there are people that have money, but everybody in the United States is new money. Firstly, everybody in the United States, Joanna, is an outsider, definitely, unless you're a Native American. And so now there's a flatter, more aspirational system. This guy in Curtis Yorvin and these guys. want to go to a monarchial structure. They want to make Trump a mad king. That's what you guys want to do to the country. that's created the most success. and the most wealth in the history of mankind.

So I'm sorry, I have to speak out against that. I have got five children and I've got family that I respect. Of course I got to speak out against that. My mother, Carol Brady called from the Brady bunch. once my mother's walnut paneling back, okay? I bet there, you know, when I took Cady K. to my mother's house, okay? I mean, her mouth dropped. I said, "Cady, where the hell do you think I grew up?". You got a linoleum floor, my mother won't let me renovate it. It's a hallway kitchen. There's one working bathroom.

I'm not saying we grew up poor. I would never dishonor my dad by telling him I grew up poor, but that's how we grew up. And look at what I'm doing now in America. It's because of America, Joanna. Yeah, I'm reasonably smart and went to fancy schools, but without America, if my father was a baker in Italy, guess what I'm gonna be, Joanna, a baker, okay? And so now, what do you got to do? You want to change the whole system? Guys, you don't want to change the system. Trust me, don't be careful what you wish for. Be careful what you wish for.

You want an oligarchic system with a bunch of jerkles. at the top worth a trillion dollars. and everybody else left out? Come on, guys. All right, so, Anthony, you mentioned Cady K. She's obviously your partner. in your very successful podcast, The Rest Is Politics. You've also got a new podcast with Scott Galloway, Prof Scott G. Tell us about it. What made you decide to do it? It's called The Lost Boys. Yeah, so just to be clear with everybody, The Rest Is Politics is sort of a serial podcast.

It comes out once or twice a week. We do some special episodes, but the one I did with Scott. is actually just a six-part series. Now, we have talked to some documentarians. about potentially turning it into a streaming series. It's gonna be a documentary on what's going on. with our men in our society right now. There has been a pendulum. that has swung hard against white males in the society.

There's no advocacy for them. And women can poo-poo that or whatever, but I'm telling you right now, 46% of the women in the United States. voted for Donald Trump. 54% of the white women voted for Donald Trump. When they were asked why, they said, "Oh, no, I voted for my son. "I voted for my husband. "I voted for my brother. "because I want the cancel culture to end. "and I want the nonsense in the country to stop.".

And he represents me, he's the Napoleon of the culture war. Well, I find that personally very depressing. I look around at the cabinet of people. and think with the shocking that there aren't more women there. You look at the tables, supposedly deciding the future of Ukraine and Russia. or Gaza and Israel. And you just think, why are there no women. negotiating? I think there should be more women. The Fiona Hills of the world are very talented, they're very capable. The Hillary Clinton's of the world are very talented,

very camel-hours are very talented and capable. But there's a culture war going on and it's hurt boys. I'll give you the stats. If you're 18 to 30, and you're a white male in this country, you have a 30% higher likelihood of committing suicide. That's a stat, that's an accurate number. I like to say I love men, I even gave birth to two white men who were in that thing. And yes, certainly there is a lot of pressure on white men,

but we look around as still running things. White men are still running things. And now everybody's being forced to get DEI from. So all the people have made progress, making less progress. Well, I mean, that's again, that's the failure of the Democratic Party. not to organize and coalesce. While Trump is telling 40,000 lies, they told the big lie. Okay, you got a guy very sick. who can barely put sentences together. and you're propping him up.

when you should have said, "Hey, I'm really sorry. You've got cancer, we gotta open up the primary. We can't let you run.". But I hear you on that white men feel. that they have been discriminated against. And yet the reality is that one in three black men. will end up going to jail. Well, again, it's called lost boys. because it's black and white boys. It's not just white men.

I'm using that category to tell you where a problem is. You know, there's a, if this goes well, I have another idea that I probably will present to Scott. or somebody else to talk about urban violence. and the gun crime and how black males are also struggling. So this is not meant to just be about one group. We have men in the country that have lost a step. that are not getting married, that can't find their footing in careers.

They feel depressed, they've lost their self-confidence. And we've interviewed experts. and gone to people in the culture. and in the world of children, guys like Richard Reeves who wrote a book about this. to talk about what is going on to raise more awareness. because when you raise more awareness, you fix problems. When Rosa Parks says, "Hey, I'm too tired.

I'm not sitting in the back of the bus.". And then all of a sudden people arrest the country. "Wittyman, what are they doing to these people?". "Okay, we gotta stop that.". What are your solutions to improve the morale of boys and men? So great question. And it's tied to a number of different things. But the first thing you have to do. when you have a problem is raise the awareness. Once it's okay for you to have a problem, imagine if I was suffering from depression.

and I went to my wife or I went to you. as if you were close friend of mine, I said, "I am suffering from depression.". Okay, now you're gonna go out and try to help me, help me resolve it or maybe it's chemical. or maybe it's behavioral, maybe any cognitive behavioral therapy, there's a whole slew of equipment. And then now there's a support mechanism. But if I can't tell you that I have the depression. because I feel there's a stigma to it. or there's a social cue that's off now. or I'm gonna be judged, okay?

That's a big problem. So the first thing you have to do is say, "You feel like this? "It's okay to feel like this.". There's a lot of people that feel like this. Let us go out there and explain to all the people. who feel like this, these are the symptoms of what you're feeling. Okay, I feel like that. Okay, great. Here's what we're gonna do. Here's how we're gonna work on self-esteem. Here are programs, here are ideas. Here's a mentoring program. These are volunteers that are gonna work with you.

to build your career, help your resume, help you find a job. We're gonna plug you into a more supportive network. But step one is we're gonna launch. this six-part mini series. There are apps now where you can shut down the social media. The social media is basically like lung cancer for the brain. You know, you should have a certain general's warning on it. because what ends up happening, your kid gets locked into it, feels FOMO, feels bad, getting cyber bullied. in a way that you don't understand akin to that Netflix show.

that took place in the UK with the young adolescent. You know, it's stuff like this. that I think we can do to make things better. We dropped the first episode on the 15th. We're dropping another one on the 22nd. It's, again, it's six parts. I actually, the last episode I interviewed my wife, who is raising two boys, and she's quite vulnerable in the show. where she's like, maybe I'm doing too much.

Maybe I'm not letting them do enough chores. or maybe I'm, you know, the laptop's unplugged at night. and my mother would have let me suffer the consequences. of an unplugged laptop and I'm running to plug it in. You know, maybe there's something we all need to think about. in terms of the way we're handling ourselves. that can get people to feel more aspirational. or better about themselves. I don't know. I can't wait to watch it, actually. And to listen to it. Will you come back, when the sixth episode has aired, will you come back and talk to us about what you've learned?

Of course, we're gonna, the hair and makeup looks great, but am I gonna get hair and makeup? Am I gonna get hair and makeup? This is my hair and makeup. I just do it in the daily best part of it. I think we're gonna react to it. You promised me good hair and makeup for this pocket. I gotta go complain to my agent. I think what you're reacting to is I've got lipstick on. And do you know why? Because some of the comments last week. from our conversation with David Rothkoff, we had 3,000 comments from people, but some of them were about why. isn't Joanna Kohl's wearing makeup?

So I'm trying, I'm trying to. I'm trying to make it. I feel under made up and under moisturized for this podcast. But it's okay. Listen, there's almost no one who's more interesting. to talk to about what on earth is going on. in America right now, especially from the point of view. of caring about America and caring for the future. of Americans. I do, Joanna. I love the country and I love people. You know, my grandmother had a great land. I'll leave you with two great lines to think about. Well, Anthony, why aren't you running for office? Well, first of all, I'm running for reelection in my marriage.

Okay, that's number one. Okay, I mean, who knows? I could get fucking term limited on the marriage. with the L.M.O. So, you know, it's a constant campaign. Well, you came close. You came close, didn't you, to getting divorced. and then you reeled back. Then you reeled back. Yeah, we almost got divorced. We repaired our marriage. Thank God it's better than ever. But, you know, my wife hates politics. I'm not going to tell you otherwise. And then the second thing, which I also think is an important thing, is that if you go and run for office, then you got to start lying. Guaranteed you're going to start lying.

You can't get out of it. Isn't there a possibility that actually. the person who comes along next. is going to be refreshingly honest and open. and that we've all had to... People in office don't have to be perfect, right? They just have to be able to do the job. And we shouldn't be looking for people to be perfect. because we'll be perennially disappointed. Yeah, no, it's realistic. It's realistic about our people. You're not electing Jesus. You're trying to elect a problem solver. who can help you, but also, you want to elect somebody that, you know, you're like, "All right, the guy or the woman.

is going to do their best to make a great decision.". And I'm not looking to line their pockets. So like, "Okay, I'm here to serve the people. I had a great life. I'm going to try to serve the people.". You know, I don't know. We'll have to see what happens, you know? It seems to me like that's the beginning of a campaign. No, no, no, no, no. Come on, please. And you know what? I'm doing just fine. I don't need to... Please. I don't need another meteor strike like I got in 2017. Okay? All right, well, I appreciate it, Joanne. It's great to be on with you.

Congratulations on everything you're doing. Well, back at you. Back at you, and we will see you soon. And good luck with the loss, boys. Thank you, and I will come back. Good. I love to have you back. All right, come back and tell us what you've learned. So much to unpack there. I was just thinking about all the headlines. that Antony is going to make in the Daily Beast, not least from President Obama. should have intervened faster. with the decline in Joe Biden's health.

to his new podcast series for Lost Boys. and the help that men need. and the fact that women voted for Donald Trump. because they were actually voting in support of their sons. and their husbands. To his ability to talk about what it means. to be an American from a modest background. who's had amazing opportunities. and acknowledging them, there is so much underappreciation of luck. and of the American system itself,

of great public education, of great public American communities. that fuel the ability to progress in America. And I thought his enthusiasm for a Gavin Newsom. and a Pete Buttigieg ticket. was also really interesting. And he's coming out early and saying it. So next episode, which will be on Thursday, is with James Carville. Join us then. So if you like this podcast, please like, please subscribe to it, subscribe to The Daily Beast,

just go to thedailybeast.com. and share it with everybody you know. and everybody you don't know. And don't forget, never forget. Be Beast!