Why Trump Trashes The Media That Made Him Famous

I'm Joanna Coohls and this is the Daily. Beast podcast. Thank you for your. comments on our last guest, James. Carville. Many of you agreed with him. about the AOC and Bernie Sanders. oligarchy tour. I wonder how many of you. will agree with today's commentator, Oliver Darcy. He's the founder of the. Status Newsletter, which specializes in. media and politics. He is like a hawk. with Wi-Fi. He's as transparent as cling. film. So, silence your push alerts.

unless they're from Oliver and let's get. into. it. Well, you have a very energetic. newsletter and I want to come to that in. a moment. But first, we're going to. discuss the media and Donald Trump. Let's get into the central paradox that. this is a man who is declaring the media. enemy of the people. He's going after. the very businesses that own a lot of. our legacy media and broadcasting. And. yet he is a man who's been utterly.

created by the media. He is of the media. and he has dominated the media for the. last 40 years in a way that almost no. other um person has. Actually, it's hard. to think of anybody who's rivaled every. single form of it. He's gone from. newspapers to magazines to digital to. television. Explain the paradox. Well, I. think it's interesting. I think there's. a phenomenon actually of people who um. are catapulted into stardom uh by the. media. I think of Elon Musk a lot in. this regard where where he just knew how.

to play the media for years and years. and they really hyped him. Um they hyped. Tesla, they hyped SpaceX, they made Elon. Musk, you know, the next uh Newton of of. the of our time. And in the same way. Donald Trump was very hyped by the media. that the tabloids loved him. uh. obviously with the apprentice he was uh. beamed into every living room in the. country. people people celebrated Donald. Trump and and held him up and right when. he wed into politics I think obviously.

the media became more critical of him. and it's almost like he couldn't figure. out how to react and I think he thought. some of his long-standing relationships. with people like Jeff Zooker would um. who was the former head of CNN would. really benefit him and I I feel like he. just broke when the media started being. critical of the uh frankly insane things. that he was saying in public. That's so. interesting. I actually hadn't thought. of it like that. And also at the. beginning, he was giving all the stories. about himself, right? I mean, he was the.

one that called the New York Post and. said of Mara Maples, as Curt Anderson. said on this podcast three weeks ago, actually, "Oh, it was the best sex I. ever had." So, he was his own source. about himself. And then the media turned. against him when they saw that he wanted. something more serious. He lost control. of the narrative. And I think he felt. betrayed by people who he had I think. considered loyal to him because in Elon. Musk and Donald Trump turns loyalty is. everything right you can do whatever you. want as long as you stay loyal to them.

they will be loyal to you. Uh and uh. obviously that's not the role of the. press particularly when you're running. for president in the Oval Office making. decisions that's impacting um everyone. in the country and across the world. And. so I I just think he he couldn't figure. out how to handle it. And so he lashes. out in public, but then, you know, still. in private, he hosts them for for. meetings. He calls them up on their. phones. I think it's actually very under. reportported the fact that Donald Trump, you know, he he calls up reporters on. his cell phone. They have a cell phone. number. They call him up. Uh and um you.

know, that's how, for instance, uh. Ashley Parker and um The Atlantic got. that uh Donald Trump interview. they. just called him up on I think a Saturday. and he answered the phone and he talked. to them and so he still I think longs. for acceptance by the press but I think. he's very frustrated um not that this. obviously uh excuses any of his behavior. but I think he's very frustrated by the. fact that he is no longer the narrative. of his own story and he um feels. betrayed so he's now trying to control.

the narrative by controlling the owners. of media we had a story in the Daily. Beast about Bob Iger actually passing. down to his head of news that he wanted. the view to lay off trashing Trump. anymore. Is that business bending the. knee this new phrase that is being. banded around now because Trump is. applying pressure? It's hard to look at. at it any other way. Um I think a few.

things are happening. I think uh we're. in this unprecedented moment where. companies like Disney, like Paramount, they're no longer very strong or as. strong as they once were. And so they. need um they need to make some deals and. they need federal government approval. for their businesses. And then even the. the strong people like Jeff Bezos, they. still want to make deals. And so um and. then you have so you have that economic. that business erosion. Their their. businesses eroding and they're they're. weaker than they normally would have. been maybe 15, 20 years ago. And then. you also have um at the same time Donald.

Trump uh you know pushing all the pain. points putting unprecedented pressure on. their businesses on these people and. you're seeing I think some weakness um. be exposed and is it unprecedented. because powerful people rich people have. always owned media haven't they? And. they've usually owned media to get what. they want politically. I'm thinking in. particular of Rupert Murdoch who. upturned politics in Britain by breaking. certain unions and by having an enormous. outsiz political impact. So is this.

actually new or is Donald Trump using. social media and amplifying his message. in a more threatening way because he has. the tools now before it was going on. behind closed doors. I don't think it. was going on to this extent. I think, you know, there's always obviously if. the president of the United States calls. up Bob Iger, regardless of who it is, I. think that Bob Iger listens to that. phone call and assesses, you know, what. what he should do. I think that there's. a very menacing nature of this current. administration, even worse than the.

first administration where you have. loyalists um like Brennan Cart, the FCC, who just can't be shamed. They don't. play by the same rules. They don't care. if I write something critical of them or. if you write something critical of them. they actually bask in the negative. attention and and and he's now. threatening to take away broadcasting. licenses and he's holding up for. instance the uh the Sky Dance Paramount. deal and and you know he won't say it. he'll say that it's separate from Donald. Trump's 60 Minutes lawsuit but it's. pretty clear to everyone that those two. are connected and um I I think that.

factor that aspect of this is really I. mean unprecedented at least in modern. American politics where typically you. don't see a president wield the powers. of the federal government in this way. and Donald Trump um is happy to do it, doesn't care about doing it and um is is. very overt. You know, last yesterday he. threatened Brian Roberts and said he. thinks they should be investigated. And. by the way, his FCC chairman is. investigating all these companies that. he says should be investigated. The only. one curiously that is avoided any sort.

of scrutiny is Rupert Murdoch. And um I. think we all know why. And I wouldn't. even put it past them at some point if. Rupert bothers Trump the way he did. after the 2020 election. I wouldn't put. it past this FCC then to suddenly be. stuck on Rupert Murdoch. You saw Donald. Trump Truth Social last week that Keith. P, who's the editor of the New York. Post, should actually be transferred by. Rert Murdoch to the Wall Street Journal. because he no longer likes the journal's. uh op-ed pages which are very critical. of him despite the fact that Keith Pool. wouldn't actually be responsible for.

them were he to move. But it is. extraordinary that sense of him really. getting into the weeds to antagonize. people. Now the there's also the. perception that businessmen are bending. the knee and are not being robust enough. in supporting journalism. What are you. hearing about that? And then we should. discuss Wendy Mcmah who is head of CBS. News resigning over the fact she felt. she wasn't being sufficiently supported. by Paramount or CBS/P Paramount. I don't.

even think it's a perception anymore. I. think that the the business class is. almost embracing the fact that yeah, they are bending the knee of Donald. Trump. I mean, they're going to Mara. Lago. They're tweeting in public. You. know, Jeff Bezos is saying he's. optimistic about Donald Trump's second. term despite all the um all the the. extremists that have been appointed to. his cabinet and key positions and the. the chaos that Donald Trump is is. reigning across the country. Uh they're. not they're being pretty open about it. They obviously want Donald Trump's. approval for various different reasons. You know, Patrick Sunong at the Los.

Angeles Times, which he owns, he wants. his drugs approved by the FDA. So, he's. kissing up to RFK and Donald Trump. And. Jeff Bezos wants those Blue Origin uh. contracts. And so, he's doing what he. can to be in Donald Trump's good graces. Mark Zuckerberg and Sam Alman, they want. um the they want uh the laws and rules. around AI to be a little more lax. And. so, I think they're doing what they can. on that front. I mean, everyone has. interest from the federal government, particularly if you're a billionaire. I. don't think that's probably possible not.

to have some sort of interest from them. and they're doing what they can to um. make Donald Trump uh like them. The most. fascinating thing is that it doesn't. appear to make Donald Trump like them. cuz Donald Trump seems completely. unpredictable and rolling from moment to. moment. So you saw at the inauguration. the dis of all these businessmen. We did. a chart of the amount of money they've. lost since the inauguration and also the. fact that it didn't stop Mark. Zuckerberg's antitrust trial or the. government's antitrust trial against.

Facebook Meta going ahead. Yeah. I I I I. I think John uh John Oliver put it well. He said that Donald Trump's kind of like. a crazy monkey with a gun and you don't. know what the crazy monkey with the. gun's going to do. I I just think you. know he's going to start shooting, right? Possibly. Yeah. I mean, and it's. very unpredictable. Um I I I think for. that very reason that it's a bad move. for these billionaires to at long term. at least particularly for the. reputations and and we all know that. billionaires if they value anything it's. the reputations um to to be so overtly.

kissing the ring particularly like Mark. Zuckerberg who has gone beyond kissing. the ring with all the things that he has. done to concede to Donald Trump and to. move in his direction. Um but I I guess. their lobbyist or whoever is hired is. telling them this is the right move for. them. I think they're also looking at. their businesses too and the news part. is so small. So small in terms of like. the the business, you know, the bottom. line and I think it's easy to then say. like it's great, we love journalism, but. like we can cut some, you know, we can.

be a little softer here, right? Although. it has an outsized impact on their. reputation to your point, right? And I. think I know several billionaires who've. chosen not to engage with Trump just by. saying, "Would love to meet you. Thank. you for the invitation.". scheduling conflict right now will come. back to you in the hope that he just. forgets and it just gets pushed down the. line. So there is something about people. that decide to engage and decide to show. up and be in the photos. Yeah. I I think. um that uh for instance like Sundar at.

Google is has has had a much lower. profile and you don't see him really um. doing the same same things that like. Zuckerberg and Bezos are doing. even Tim. Cook who is very he's been very savvy I. think at navigating the Trump uh. dynamics but but but even those two. they're still quietly or or making. signals that move them in in the more. you know they cut their DEI programs for. instance at Google or they scaled them. back they ran away from them I think. they don't want the fight I think that's.

I think they don't want the fight I. think they don't want the fight that's a. very good point let's come back to Wendy. Mcmah actually what did you think of her. resignation I think that certainly Wendy. wasn't a perfect president of CBS News. I think her move to uh remove Norah. O'Donnell as anchor of CBS Evening News. for instance and put those uh two new. hosts in, you know, that that. dramatically John Dickerson and Morris. Yeah. And it it hurt the ratings quite a. bit and that's not great. And there's. some other things that she did that. could have been done better. But by and. large, I think that um it's pretty.

obvious that if she went along with the. censorship campaign of 60 Minutes and um. was in the Sherry camp in that regard. and was playing with the um Sky Dance. folks coming in, I think she'd still. have a job. And um I think that was. obviously the elephant in the room. And. I think it's actually terrible that some. people are um really trying to muddy the. waters here and pretend that there was. all these other things. Again, you can. if any any head of any news. organization, you can go down the list. of things they haven't done perfectly.

Um, and Wendy certainly made mistakes, but she was forced out, make no mistake, because she refused to soften the. coverage of 60 Minutes against Donald. Trump. And if you watch 60 Minutes this. past season, you've seen very. aggressive, rightfully aggressive. coverage of what Donald Trump is doing. in Washington. And that made it very. uncomfortable, I think, for Sher. Redstone, who wants her Paramount deal. approved and who's trying to settle a. lawsuit, the the lawsuit against 60. Minutes with Donald Trump right now. And.

when 60 Minutes week after week is. hitting the um hitting Trump and his. administration, that doesn't make. Sherry's life easier. And so, you know, I've reported and others have reported. that Sherry um was asking, you know, basically, can we soften the coverage? Do we have to air these stories right. now? And they even went up to can we not. air the the season finale of 60 Minutes. and they floated a um you know airing. some other prime time special. I think. they were going to suggest a sports. event, right? Rather than the and the. than the season finale of 60 Minutes.

which is the most watched news program. in the country. It's obviously the crown. jewel of American broadcast journalism. and not airing the the finale. You know, I don't think any news chief who's. acting in an ethical way would go along. with that. And obviously Wendy did not. go along with it and made her. disagreements known. And I think that. was really the final straw for them. where they did not feel like she was um. being a team player. Unfortunately, the. sport they wanted to play or the way. they wanted to play the sport was not uh. you know um did not uh go along with how.

a news chief would be expected to run a. news division. And so I'm very. interested for instance now in how um. Tom Sabrowski who's in there who's a. pretty wellrespected news executive ex. ABC recently took over the role. Yes. He. was in San Francisco um a bureau chief. there now is now is uh come uh to CBS. News to take over as president. I'm. curious how he's going to navigate these. waters. Um he's kind of probably he's. really in the thick of it now. Poor man. What a time to take over. Although very.

invigorating time to take over too if. you decide to stand up for news. although very and he has he has the. benefit of 60 Minutes it did air the. season finale so they're off for the. summer and theoretically this lawsuit. and all of this drama will be put behind. him um or behind the company soon and I. think 60 Minutes is really Wendy's. biggest problem because you know on the. CBS you know CBS mornings that's not. really what was under Donald Trump's. skin it was Sher's Sher's biggest. problem yes and I I think that 60. Minutes was was really the thing that.

got under Donald Trump's skin which was. really bothering him not really the. coverage across the board elsewhere. And. I I'd even wonder too, you know, um CBS. Evening News, uh the ratings decreased. and they they they received a lot of. criticism for the new format, but the. new format seems something like that. Sher would have liked because it's it's. not focused as much on Donald Trump and. Washington politics. It did try to. broaden the aperture and as a result, the the ratings um I think fell because. people didn't feel like they could get. the news from the CBS evening news. anymore. Um, and so anyway, I think a.

lot of this is all is all of Sherry's uh. it's Sherry's mess and Wendy who didn't. go along with the 60 Minutes part of it. um ended up losing her job. So let's. talk about you. The world is blitzed. every morning. It's blitzed with. newsletters. Why did you decide to leave. Reliable Sources which you've been. running and felt like a must readad at. CNN to start your own thing which has in. fact to be fair become another must. readad. Well, thank you. I I felt an.

entrepreneurial expensive must readad I. would say. Is it expensive? It's $400 a. year. No, no, no. It's $150 a year if. you want to be part of the founders. club. That's that is uh that is a little. more money but it's uh $150 a year. I. thought it was 400 a year. Okay, we're. not I think I've only been sent an. expensive one, Oliver. I think your. algorithm is targeting me. I don't even. know if we have we we're not we're not. rich enough to have algorithms targeting. people yet, but eventually that would be. nice. Uh no, it's it's. $149.95 a year. Um $14.95 a month. Um it.

it comes down to less than a cup of. coffee a week, so I think we're pretty. reasonable on on the prices. And um uh I. had an entrepreneurial itch to um start. something my own. I like um being able. to control the brand and I think there's. some freeing nature of not being inside. a corporate newsroom. Um you know one of. the things for instance is when we. talking about what's happening now is. like you know if I want to call Elon.

Musk a right-wing conspiracy theorist. which he is I'm free to do that you know. and we can make these decisions on our. own. there were no corporate lawyers. telling us what to do or and and not to. say that that was, you know, the CNN. experience, but I think any corporate. newsroom there are they are inherently. more cautious um about this stuff and. and they they are more riskaverse and um. we're a little more nimble at status and. we don't uh we don't shy away from. covering uh uncomfortable issues or. saying the uh thing that everyone's.

texting out loud. Um, we uh we we we try. to be a voice that confronts power in a. real way. Well, it's become irresistible. reading, I think, and we're always. flying back and forth with did you read. this in Darcy, as we as we call you, not. status, which as I know the official. name of the newsletter. You started with. a very good scoop about Olivia Nie and. RFK Jr. and their. virtual relationship as it seems to be. What has happened to Olivia? That's a. good question. Um, you know, uh, I I.

think I read somewhere that she was. still working on a book or plan. You. know, they had a book deal, Ryan Liza. and Olivia Nudie. Um, and Ryan Liza was. her fiance. Yes Ryan Liza was her fiance. at the time and he was the, um, chief. Washington correspondent, I believe, of. Politico and they were sort of a power. couple in Washington. You know, she was. the Washington correspondent for New. York Magazine and he was the chief. Washington correspondent for Politico. and writing playbook, which is obviously. the must readad in DC. and they had a. book deal uh to cover the 2024 campaign.

And they clearly had a falling out after. um we had reported that uh Olivia was. engaged in this romantic digital affair. of sorts with uh um RFK and I think they. obviously had a following up before then. because I think Ryan had caught wind of. it. But um I'm not I'm not entirely the. book deal. I guess Ryan's no longer. attached to it, but Olivia is, but I. don't know um what she's doing. I'm very. curious when she's going to resurface. and uh who would be intrigued in hiring. her. She lost her job from New York.

magazine after what felt like a long. investigation and he then left Politico. So they both ended up losing out over. it. I was going to ask you, so RFK Jr. has said that he wants to remove farmer. ads from television which will have an. outsized impact on the news. Do you. think that's politically driven? Is it. because he genuinely thinks people. shouldn't be looking at farmer ads? and. what impact if they get it done will it. have on television news. I've been. actually meaning to do a story on this. because I think it would be devastating.

for um particularly cable news uh which. you know if you turn on cable news it. doesn't matter what channel it's all. pharma ads it's all it's all it's humor. it's bladder leakage it's strange drug. one what is that the yeah illnesses. you don't even know what the stuff is I. think I need the drug yeah those that. jingle music that that plays um that you. you want to get out of your head once. you've heard it and people in soft focus. looking like they're leave living. perfect lives now. And uh but that's. what that's what powers these news.

organizations these days. Um and short. of like you know on a big night they. might have some bigger blue chip. advertisers like Mercedes-Benz but. primarily you know if you turn on the. the dayside programming that's what. you're going to see. And so I think it's. probably killing two birds with one. stone for them. I think it's they. certainly love weakening news. organizations. There's no there's no. secret about that. And also I think RFK. doesn't like big pharma. I think he's. been very outspoken about that. So, this. is kind of the perfect thing for him to. do. And um I I do think that it does. worry these news organizations partic on.

on cable news particularly because they. rely on on on those dollars. and is there anyone else who would step. up or that just becomes a vacuum of. funding? It would be problematic. And I. think the other problematic thing is you. know in this information environment uh. a lot of brands are very politics. averse. So they don't want to be. advertising against news because they, you know, don't feel like that's where. they should be putting their brands. And. um Google and Facebook and or Meta, they.

they have a duopoly in this country. Um. maybe that'll be broken up by the. government. We know that they're going. after Google and and Meta, but uh that's. where people spend their dollars. 74% of. all digital ad spending goes to Google. or Meta. Yeah. And YouTube. And. YouTube's another big one. Well, I guess. that's a Google thing, but you know, that's in ter I don't I guess that is. digital spending, but I view it you. think like everyone else increasingly as. like a televisionoriented spending as. well because that's where people are. watching YouTube. And so those where the. dollars are going and advertisers get I.

think um they go to them for you know. they get a lot more out of it. They can. target very you know they can really. target people um and in a different way. than television and they don't have to. be associated with news and they don't. like news. And I think that's why, for. instance, you know, um, you're seeing, um, CNN try playing in other verticals. and launching like CNN weather. It's not. that there's like a hole in the weather. market, right? Like if you pull out your. phone and go to the app store right now. and type in weather, there are plenty of. weather apps. It's not like this is like. some sort of void that they're seeking. to fill. I think that they probably want.

um, verticals that advertisers feel. comfortable putting their brand against. And so weather is like the most. apolitical thing. You say that although. Donald Trump is perfectly capable of. politically the weather and so did. Marjgerie Taylor Green, right? She said. they were shooting down clouds. Well, do. you remember Sharpie Gate? That was. another good example of Donald Trump. But generally speaking, right, generally. speaking, checking the weather is an. apolitical act. And so I think that's. why brands, news brands are moving in. that direction. Even the New York Times,

you know, they half of their stuff is. cooking and and product reviews, games. Exactly. People don't want to be. advertisers particularly. they they look. for these safe refues from from the from. the news and um uh so back to your. original question about cable news it's. going to be problematic I think if these. big pharma ads go away because they're. one of the few that are happy to. advertise on cable news against that. demographic okay so you've gone out on. your own yes status newsletter no big. fararma ads no big pharma ads how many.

subscribers do you have well total. subscribers uh free and paid we we um. have passed 80,000 congratulations Um, and uh, we haven't revealed how many. paid there are, but I, you know, several. thousand. And we're doing we're doing. quite well, I'd say. Uh, we're only 9. months old. So, just hired another. member of your team. Yes, we um, how. many other we now? It's a real Wii, not. a royal Wii, but like a Wii. So, there. are two of you or two of us. There's two. of us. Um, we hope to bring on more in. the future. U, we're growing responsibly.

and honestly, frankly, in this economic. climate, you have to be a little bit. careful. Um but uh John Pasantino from. CNN, he was my editor there. He was the. one editing reliable sources when I was. there. Um he's uh brilliant. I'd say. he's very on the news and um we share a. lot of the same ethos and uh so I was. happy to bring him on board earlier this. year. Otherwise, are you working 24/7 at. this point, which is I guess what all. startup founders do, but given that it.

was just you for the first what eight. months? Yes. Um, were you just working. all hours, God sends? Yeah, I mean I I. it's it's always intense, I'd say. Um, you know, there was a lot of things that. I had to do and it was a especially the. first I'd say three months were um very. chaotic as you're trying to kind of like. I almost feel like a rocket ship trying. to leave the atmosphere and there's a. lot of like resistance and it's. difficult, you know, you're trying to. get escape velocity. Yeah. And there's. like and you're in the cockpit and like. there's a lot of red buttons flashing. and you're trying to figure out which.

one you triage like which one needs to. be addressed first. Um and email is. actually a lot more complicated than. people think. There's like. deliverability issues and a whole bunch. of stuff that I won't bore the audience. with. But um uh now I think we're at. cruising the seat belt signs uh turned. off and uh and we're not exactly where. we want to be. We want to keep going up. but um it's it's it's much more. comfortable. Uh that said, you know, I I. think we're both working um from the. moment we get up to the moment we go to. bed and there's no real break. But I.

will say as well that when I was at CNN. running reliable sources, I felt like I. was working at a startup inside CNN. without startup benefits. And so now. what's great is that um the more work I. put into this, the more um John and I. get out of it. And um that's what one of. the more rewarding things about owning. your own company. um you you get very. excited about the growth and it. motivates you to to work those long. hours when you're exhausted. So what's. the eventual outcome for you? I think a. lot of people say that they want to hold.

power to account or that they want to. give you the inside story that no one is. um telling you. I think that's super. cliche. I think that we actually aim to. do that. And I think if you read our. writing and you read our reporting, you. see that we a take you inside the room. as much as we can every single night as. much as we can. It's not some, you know, empty slogan. It's a real thing that we. aim to do. And we also aim to speak. truth to power um and not shy away from.

sensitive egos or powerful people. I get. phone calls from their spokespeople or. them directly and you know I hear them. out but I tell them all like we're not. we're this is this is not a safe zone. If you want a safe space this isn't the. newsletter for you. I got into. journalism because I think it's uh. important for society. Um and especially. right now with what's happening um I. think people need to um hold power to. account and I also think it's kind of. fun. You know like needling billionaires. can be a little bit fun right? It can be.

fun. It ca it can be fun. Uh it can also. be hard work. So many people have. started their own brands on Substack. There is only with the best will in the. world a limited amount of attention one. has for these things. So what what is. the future for creators and news. influencers especially on Substack and. Beehive. I mean in terms of actually. making a living. I do agree. I I and I. also worry and I've spoken out about. this a little bit that there are these. glowing profiles of people who are doing.

well on these platforms and it makes it. seem as if it's for everyone and easy to. do and like it's a get-rich quick scheme. and that's certainly not the case. Like. I think if you talk to anyone who's. successful on these platforms, they will. tell you they are working 100 plus hours. a week. They only think about this. They. don't think they can take vacation. They. are like it's it consumes your life. And. so I don't think that lifestyle is for. everyone. And even if you do that, there's still no guarantee that you're. going to be successful. You also have to.

be very good to get people coming back. week after week, right? Because if you. even if you think about columnists that. you follow, say in the New York Times or. the Wall Street Journal or whatever, they're still surrounded by other. things. So to actually go and seek. someone out regularly or or to click on. them when they come into your inbox. feels like an extra layer of work. I do. think that yeah, you have to have a lot. of things going for you. Um, and I think. uh for us uh scoops are really what keep. people coming. That's what gets.

attention. You can't read it anywhere. else. Look, like I I worry too that. people who are just wanting to do. general analysis or politics analysis. There's a lot of that that's out there. for free. I can get my phone out right. now and I can swipe through like reels. I can go on X. I don't go on X, but you. you could go on X and see a lot of. stuff. There's blue sky, there's. threads, there's social, whatever. There's free websites. Like there's a. lot of free general political analysis. and things like that. I think that what. keeps people coming back to status. primarily is because we break news and.

we tell you the inside story that you're. not going to read in the New York Times. or the Wall Street Journal or whatever. What are the scoops you're most proud. of? We referenced the Olivia Nie story. right in your first week with her. virtual relationship with RFK Jr. What. are other stories? give me your top. three stories that you were just so. excited to run. Um, well, that's that's. always tricky. Uh, that that cuz you. know, we there's there's there's a lot. I'm I'm proud of. Um, you know, I I was. I I think that we've been on the 60. Minutes story for some time. Um, and you.

know, we had reported back that Jeff. Shell, the incoming president of. Paramount, had told Wendy McMahon and. um, Bill Owens that they needed to. basically be on board with a settlement. with Donald Trump. And I think that was. some of the early reporting on that and. now it's really and they're both gone. Yeah. Now they're both gone. Yeah. Also. left, you know, and we we were able to. break that story. We've we we broke. stories like on the CNN lineup and Jim. Aosta leaving CNN. Um he's now got his. own substack. He's got his own Substack. now. It's very difficult uh Joanna to.

think off the cuff on stories we broken. Um because I I I honestly, if you asked. me Oliver, what did you write last week? I would tell you I really need to think. about that. Right. You've got no. short-term memory left because you're. working so hard. No. And you know, I I. write a story and then I I the it's you. know, the one thing about writing a. newsletter, I think there's, you know, a. lot of journalists in news rooms and I. used to be one of these people. You. know, you write a big story and then you. get to kind of coast off of that story. for a few days and kind of bask in that. and see there's none of that here. because we I I do a story and then the.

next morning or even that night I'm. thinking, what are we going to do. tomorrow? Like because you you have to. have something new. Well, and the shelf. life of a story now is very fast too, right? I mean, it used to be that you. could write a story and people would. follow it and then the story itself. would develop. But now it's just. everything is moving so fast. Everything. moves very fast and um and that's what. actually makes it very difficult if. you're trying to attract subscribers, I'd say, because um it's a very slow. burn. I think people don't understand. this about the subscription game. It's a. it's a challenging business. There's a. lot of subscription dollars you're.

competing against. I view us is. competing against Netflix and Disney. Plus and Hulu and all those guys because. like people have x amount of money. They. have your $12.99 a month and they're. thinking, well, am I getting the same. value as I am with Netflix where I can. watch every program in the world or. that's what it feels like. Yeah. And I I. actually and I and I wish too that I I. hope that um consumers realize they. should be paying for journalism as well. I think that that's still you've done a. terrible job educating people. We would. never take a drug for free. Why would we. take information which is our mental. nutrition and not expect people to pay.

for it? Especially given the work it. takes. And you know, a lot of people. tell me, they say, I get a lot of this. email, like, you know, why isn't it. free? Um, why don't you give out uh you. know, uh, a month free and then I'll see. if I want to do it. And I'm like, well, you don't walk into a restaurant, right, and say, let me let me try your steak, um, and your dessert and give me some. wine and I'll decide if I want to pay. for it later. Like, that's generally not. what happens. If you give it for free, people just read it, they scroll by it, and that's it. Well, and it's what big.

tech taught people to do, right? which. is take all of this stuff for free and. you won't have to pay because you're the. product. Generally speaking, if you want. to use the product, you have to pay for. it up front and that's the way it works. Well said. And a lot of people who who. claim to be supporting journalism too, they get upset about payw walls and. things like that. And look, like I get. it. Everyone has certain subscription. dollars and and I I totally understand. I'm empathetic to that. But like at the. same time, if you don't think twice. about buying a uh cocktail at the bar or.

a beer or a coffee, you know, that's. basic we're less than a cocktail a. month. Okay. The media has also, I. think, probably done a terrible job in. reminding people why factbased. journalism is so important and why it's. valuable and why it can't be produced. for free. And actually, if you're. getting information for free, it's. probably not very good quality. Okay. So, if you're a journalist out there and. you're thinking about either leaving. your legacy media brand or you think. you're about to be laid off or you're. someone doing something completely.

different, but you want to start your. own newsletter, what are the first. couple of things that you would say to. people perhaps to warn them off because. you don't want the competition. No, I'm. teasing. But because this is more. difficult than people think, what are. the big surprises? I get a bunch of. calls every single week um now from. people who are pondering doing something. similar. And I'm honest with the people. who I think will do well and who who you. know won't do well. I don't want I don't. want someone to go independent and then. I have misled them into thinking this is.

some sort of you know gold mine and it's. easy and it just we're just everyone's. running to the bank. Like that's not the. that's not the lifestyle that we're. living. Any and again ask anyone who's. who's doing well independently. This is. all they think about. they they're. consumed by their business. Um, so I. tell them that it's a all-consuming. thing. It's not like subscriptions don't. um they don't happen overnight. You. know, it's a it's a very slow walk up a. mountain. You need to constantly be. producing content that is um exclusive.

to your platform that people feel like. they can only get from from you. There's. a lot of media newsletters out there. Um, you know, you have to be providing. content or or stories that people don't. feel like they're getting anywhere else. And you have to do that on a regular. basis, like like as many times a week as. possible. Um, and then you also have to. there's a bunch of stuff. You have to. have a good-looking product. I'd say. that aesthetics matter quite a bit. Um, we try to make our website and our. newsletter look like a white glove. premium product. Um, something that you.

want to open and look at. By the way, if. anyone from Google or um Outlook is. listening, support more fonts. You guys. only support like 10 fonts. It's. terrible. Um that's my pet peeve. But uh. so I I I I tell them all this stuff. I. mean, I I think I think it's very. serious to think about this. And then. how much money do you need to live? Because there are a lot of benefits you. get at a corporation that you probably. don't think about. That's very. expensive. Healthcare being one of them, but also you get vacation time. You. might um get, you know, um some other. benefits that that you want. And then.

also how much money you're going to need. to do other things to pay for. So, um, do you need defamation insurance? Well, how much is that going to be? Um, $10,000 a year. Like, that's a cost you. should factor in. You know, do you need. Getty Images? You have to think about. all this stuff when you're launching. And I just think it's so important to. stress. It's not this like overnight. thing where you're going to be um living. large and like like you might like like. some of these profiles I think might. lead people to believe. Well, Oliver. Darcy, I will say I read your status. newsletter every day. Uh, it's full of.

information. I think if you're in the. media, you're covering politics. Probably essential reading. So, congratulations. I wasn't sure it was. going to be an absolute outand-out. success when you left CNN. I thought, gosh, that's a big risk, but I think. you've pulled it off. So, many. congratulations. And thank you for. coming in to talk to us. Thank you so. much. And if people are interested, status.news is where you can find us. And also, they should be subscribing to. the daily beast.com. Just go to the. dailybeast.com and subscribe to You. should get We should do a dual thing.

where you get two for the price of one. or two for the price of three. That. would be better. That would be a better. We'll get someone else to give their. product for free. Excellent. Super. interesting to watch your growth and to. hear your point of view. Well, thank you. so much. It was It was really fun being. here and I'm curious. Maybe a year from. now we'll come back and see where we. are. Well, we're going to I'm going to. have you back before a year. Before a. year. Okay. Yeah. For a year. Oliver. All right. Thank you very much. Thank. you. [Music]. I love Oliver's analysis of Donald Trump.

as someone who stroed like a colossus. through the various changes of media. So. from newspaper to television to digital. to his own platform with Truth Social. And he's someone that the media made and. he helped them make him. of course loved. hearing about Oliver's entrepreneurial. journey and taking the risk of leaving a. big comfortable media company like CNN. to go out on his own. If you enjoyed. this podcast, please like or subscribe. or share it with a friend and go to the. Daily Beast and subscribe to the Beast.

Too so that you can have 24/7 coverage. of the madness that's going on out. there. And don't forget, be Beast. Today's episode was produced by Devon. Rogerino, Anna von Ersen, and it was. edited by Diana Chapman.