Why Trump’s Spell Broke With Ultimate Humiliation | The Daily Beast Podcast

The balloon has been punctured. The spell has been broken. The next two years, he is going to try to stumble back to his palace in Mar-A-Lago, and everybody is going to be noticing more and more that he's got no clothes. It's an ugly thought, actually. It was all a bluff. It was all BS like it is politically. He's finished. I'm trying to Kohl's. This is the Daily Beast podcast. It's the night after the night after the Soon Army.

The bloodbath for the Republicans and who's been traverses. the country trying to figure out the pulse of the country. None other than Terry Moran. We spoke to him last night when he was in Texas with James Talarico campaign. He's back with us this evening, just telling us what he saw and giving us his impression. Of what? Well, what's underneath this revolution that happened last night? Terry is the former chief political correspondent for ABC news,

of course, but he then got fired by ABC after saying. that Stephen Miller was a hater, a world class hater. He said that last year he since set up on his own. He's fully independent at this point and well, he's just bursting with energy. over last night's result, as I know you are too. So don't forget. Please subscribe to the Daily Beast podcast. We are independent media. It's why we love having conversations with people like Terry Moran.

and Michael Wolff and Anthony Scaramucci. and Mary Trump and Doctor John Gartner. But we love your support. So please like and subscribe to this podcast and share it. with your friends, with your neighbors, with your children, and with your enemies. Let's get into it with Terry Moran, who is in well, he's in the fulcrum of the revolution. He's in Texas.

If the. person diffusing a bomb said red wire, blue wire. I'm feeling lucky. You'd said a personal record in the 100 yard dash. Experience gets a lot more appealing when guessing isn't an option. That's why so many people turned to Morgan and Morgan, making it America's largest injury law firm. Morgan and Morgan has a proven track record of fighting for the people. for over 35 years, and with over 35 billion.

recovered for their clients, Morgan and Morgan knows a thing or two. about fighting to get you the compensation you deserve. They've got more than 1000 lawyers and 100 offices nationwide. So if your car gets totaled, you get hurt at work, or somebody else's. bad decision becomes your very expensive problem. You can check out Morgan and Morgan. If you're ever injured, you can check out Morgan and Morgan.

Morgan and Morgan fights to get their clients. the best results, and their fee is free unless they win. To see if you have a case you can go to. For the people.com/daily Beast. Terry Moran. Wonderful to see you. I know you are in Texas. Tell me truthfully, how much sleep did you get last night, Terry? Well, I think after we left the Tallarico event,

we had a little event of our own, so I think I got about, oh, four hours. Four hours? Okay, that's not bad. I know that's not bad. That's not bad. So just take us to the moment when it became clear that James Talarico. had beaten Ken Paxton, the pen stealer, as I think of him, the Penn thief. The the man who got divorced by his wife on biblical grounds.

The man who managed to get 15 houses won. five houses in his period in Texas politics. Tell us about the moment. What was it like? It was an incredible moment. Johanna really was. And partly because of the catalog you just recited. of Ken Paxton's obvious flaws as a candidate. You'd think it wouldn't have been such a release, such a deliverance for people.

But it was. I went up there in the area where people were gathering. to watch the jumbotron events. We had our our camera a little off to the side with the rest of the. of the cameras. I think it was the only independent journalist over there. The. you know, the campaigns are increasingly taking care of us, which is nice. But I was up there and I saw a fella wearing the flag of Texas shirt. Right. Big star on one side, red, white and blue or however however go. So I said, well see how he's feeling. And he said, I feel like Charlie Brown and Lucy.

He says, I don't believe it's going to happen, because so many times. that ball has been taken from us and Charlie Brown, you know, would would go flying back. They didn't they didn't trust it. And there's something about a crowd. You know, every. organization takes its personality, its tenor and tone from the top. Right. And, Trump's White House is nasty,

dishonest, cruel, gleefully cruel. Because the guy. Because the boss is right. Oh. Obama's white House was very, very courteous. They didn't always tell you a lot, but they were very, very courteous to you. And tell Ricos crowd, as you might imagine, is is decent and, open, unafraid of. of a conversation with people and so hopeful. So bang, the moment comes and we were up there.

and you've seen the pictures, people weeping. But it's been a long time. A few hours ago, there was not a single statewide. office in Texas that was held by a Democrat, and there hadn't been a statewide office held by a Democrat for 32 years. And now all of the executive statewide offices in Texas. That's that's governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general, railroad. commissioner, agriculture commissioner. There are others. Every single one of them is is held by Democrats by large margins.

It's extraordinary. And of course, we shouldn't leave out. the elbowing off the stage of. Greg Abbott, who's been there for three terms, and Gina Hinojosa coming in. I mean, again, an incredible achievement. James Tallarico has sucked up a lot of oxygen of attention. in this particular race, but it's a huge victory for her, too. This is this really does feel like change is afoot.

It really doesn't. You know, it was as much, if not more of an underdog. than James Taylor as James Talarico. You know, he talked about David and Goliath, and he was David. And, you know, his supporters were the the slingshot. Well, Gina, he knows in some way she said she's a Spanish woman. In an era when, you know, I is and Border Patrol are out there. hunting down brown people regardless of their immigration status. We've seen it again and again.

Some of them are getting killed. That that man in in Houston. Sebastian Guerrero, who was here, you know, working to build Houston for 35 years. So that's the climate that, you know, he stepped forward and said, no, I'm gonna I'm going to run the state. So in some ways, it was an even it was an even bigger upset. And Abbott had no clue it was it was going to come his way. He looked at Ken Paxton. There's a loser candidate for it on my party on the Texas Democratic Party.

My buddy John Cornyn got got elbowed out. It's no good, but I'm okay. And then you could see in the final days. it what was happening to me. You could see it around his eyes. Election night. Check it out. There's an interview. He did. I believe I maybe it was local. You might be able to find it on social media where he's literally wide eyed. He. And he's saying, no, there are a lot of vote coming in. And because you could see he he's been around Texas politics a long time, he could read the writing on the wall, and he could see it written in his face.

And for those of whom, for those people who are not supporters and who see him, you know, as, as a a character who changed, like Trump, change. the nature of the executive office to meet his own ends. He's not a corrupt man, as far as I know. But you know what he did to the public schools? What he did after Uvalde, which was openly lie. about the cowardice of the local police. And he had all the state troopers, nobody standing around him. It was it that was a deliverance. It was an extraordinary upset.

And she brings a commitment to public education, expertise. You know, she has served in, in various positions and and is ready for the job. And Texas is going to be governed by Latina. I still can't believe it. It's incredible. And of course, the Latino vote was super important in Texas. Can you just talk a little bit more about that? We saw a very early, enthusiastic vote by the Hispanic community. It just just tell us a little bit more.

I mean, this is just of such historic proportions. Terry. I couldn't believe it. You seemed ecstatic last night when you joined us on our live. I mean, and it was also wonderful to see you out of the constraints of A, B, c which I know you love, that job you did and job for them. You had a fantastic run there. You did all the big jobs. You were based in London, you were chief political correspondent. We met years and years ago on the Louise Woodward trial. We did the trial of the British nanny, which was almost 30 years ago,

20, 29 years ago. You had a fantastic run there. But I can tell, as someone who's observed your career. that you're having the time of your life as an independent journalist. I am Joanna, thank you for saying that, that it's so true. I loved working for ABC. I have no hard feelings, had a great career. I went to travel the world and all that stuff. And yet now this dimension, this, this medium, which is the next chapter of American journalism I feel lucky to be in.

Is it hard? It's hard. It's real hard. It can get discouraging. And yet, that ability to be what I consider to be a whole journalist, right? I can bring all of my my faculties, my reporting, my heart and mind, my opinions to some degree. But the point is to get the story right. and not shy away from value judgments, right? I mean, that's why I got fired at ABC. I thought, you know, you got to tell the truth and tell it whole.

And it can get you in trouble. Not here. And yes, last night it was it was to be in in that environment to see people. who had worked so hard for so long for a cause that they understood as just. And the Hispanic community, as you mentioned, down along the southern border of Texas and throughout this state. Right. This is this is on the state capitol grounds. over the last 15, 20 years, they've added two monuments, one finally,

to black Americans, to black Texans, and second to Latino Texans. And they're great monuments. Have you ever the capital is an amazing place, and this was their moment too. Now what. Hispanic voters have been these swing voters recently. Democrats kind of took them for granted. Democrats had a habit of thought, which is okay, well, they're brown. And so therefore there in this category of race. Right. And that our original sin in this country.

was, you know, chattel slavery based on racial lines. And so we'll kind of pack them into our understanding that way. Of course, that was that. I'm simplifying it, but there was a strong element of that. No. So they these are people who have a completely different culture. and different interests and felt taken for granted by the Democratic Party. Trump comes forward and he has a he has a pitch. He has you know, I don't really care. You're going to get rich. And frankly, who doesn't like that's the sound of that.

And also the sense of pride in the country. Democrats also at times felt embarrassed. It seemed to me there's an obligatory, well, yeah, you know, America sucks. or or whatever before you get to you, but we're trying hard or whatever. And that doesn't square with Texas, that's for sure. And so two years ago, they swung really hard to. Trump helped deliver Trump the popular vote. And if you look at the Washington Post as an amazing animation of.

of the shift in votes among Hispanic voters, it's astonishing. because they opened, they could see what they see in front of themselves. They they thought that this immigration, enforcement was wrong, morally wrong. It hurt their people. It hurt them relatives. And and they were looked at differently by law enforcement. and by some of their neighbors who had the white supremacy virus in them. And also, nothing's working.

Schools aren't working, economies not working. Healthcare is not working. So just like everybody else, they're like, we we need to change. And it was it was amazing to see. It is with a lot of Hispanic voters. I'm pretty sure that there is vengeance in that boat. You're shopping for everyone else, making holiday plans and somehow trying to squeeze it all in. But if healthier looking hair and skin have been on your own. wish list, here's a reason to make a little time for yourself.

To I restore makes it easy to bring clinically backed red light. therapy into your routine at home, even during the holiday rush. The Iris Store Elite uses 300 lasers. and 200 LEDs to help regrow thicker, healthier hair. Just wear it while you're shopping for gifts online, watching your favorite holiday movie, or winding down at night. And then there's the Illumina Face mask lightweight, cordless, and packs.

With over two times the LEDs of most popular devices, it uses triple wavelength light therapy to target fine lines, breakouts, and dullness, and the ten minute treatments. make it easy to take a little time for yourself. Between all those holiday plans. Iris Stores Black Friday sale runs November 2nd through the 27th with a huge. discounts on red light therapy devices, including customer favorites like Iris.

door, Elite helmet and the Illumina Face Mask. Whether you're checking off your gift list or treating yourself, just head to restore. Com and use Code Daily Beast to take advantage of the sale. That's Daily Beast at Iris store.com. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. See it? Did you by any chance and I will certainly look out for it, but Ken Paxton's concession speech. Did you.

Did you see it? No. We were we were a couple of drinks in at that point, I. We were, like, still buzzing from the event. I didn't see it. What was I? Well, I didn't I didn't see it either. So. So we'll look for it. And next time we talked, we'll we'll mention it. But I was going to ask you to what extent and then we'll come on. and we'll talk about some other races, because I know you've been in Maine. I know you were in Iowa. We talked about that a month ago. To what extent did you feel in Texas.

last night that this was a rebuke of Donald Trump? Oh, huge. Huge, traveling in in. various states in Ohio last weekend. Trump voters are different. Most of them. Look, there's the hardcore. Those rallies. got smaller and smaller and smaller and quieter and quieter and quieter. He's not as good a show, but also. he was clearly all about himself.

I mean, he always has been to a lot of me. and included dangerously all about himself. But his patriotic patter, pseudo patriotic. patter, his promise, we're all going to get rich. You know, I think a lot of people went along with it now, so felt, problems. with the Democrats, national Democrats, which you still hear about. But there's no question. the sense of real disappointment and betrayal among Trump voters. Real in Medina, Ohio, said to me, I she's ready to I admit, I voted for him.

three times and it's and I never will again. You know, she was very upset here in Texas. You talked to people also disappointed. The spell is broken, completely broken. And he broke it. He had an opportunity to do something very dangerous to the country. You know, he had behind this wind in his sales. to become a genuinely authoritarian kind of leader like we haven't seen. And he's not smart enough. He's too selfish. So it was, but it was more than a rejection of the man.

There's a rejection of the idea. And this, I think, is where the gigantic wave comes in. Americans are not idiot locks. We don't have some grand theory of the case. Right? We have the French, we're pragmatists. We like what works. And so there are all these Republicans, JD Vance, right at the front of the line, who have some huge theory. about American nationalism, said, there's a there's the Catholic integral. There's, you know, Elon Musk and his wacky ideas.

There's the techno futurists. They've all got some ideas, you know, they've read and Rand at some point, alas, and and mix it up with some other stuff. That's not the way most people are. They, they they look at their vote as an opportunity for course correction. for their own lives. I like to say American voters are very smart, really smart, really intelligent about their own lives and their interests. and what they need in this moment and the. and the increasing parade of this, what this kind of rural,

you know, I mean, the weirdness about a different kind of America. than anything we were this was a rejection of the very idea that we are anything. but what we have always been, you know, a promise. that needs to be fulfilled in practical ways. And this idea that you're going to reinvent. the presidency and the Constitution and who we are in the in the world. Alas, he had the power to do that was just alien to people.

And this is a rebuke of Trumpism and anything that any ism. that that purports to redefine the kind of three steps. forward, two steps back, pragmatic democratic process of this country. Terry, I love your idea that the spell is broken. And it was Donald Trump who broke his own spell as well, because certainly here at The Daily Beast and certainly on Inside Trump's Head, another podcast I co-host with Michael Wolff, Michael has always made the point. that that just as Trump has the seeds of victory.

He also has the seeds of defeat, which he manages to sprinkle. all over himself almost by by default and unintentionally. And that's, I think, what you saw last night. But I love your description. He cast the spell. Americans fell for it amazingly a second time, but that he's broken it himself. So I would not have called Texas. I was in Texas ten days ago, and I certainly wouldn't have called.

it for for the Democrats. I don't think. you would have done either when we last spoke. I know you've been in Maine. You spent some time with Troy Jackson. Did you see Susan Collins concession speech coming? I think at 1130 last night. I mean, incredibly early. Yes. I think partly that is she could read the writing on the wall. and she's an institutionalist and and she isn't a Trump Republican. She's from a generation where you did stuff like that, you didn't drag it out.

You didn't lie about it. You didn't. What did Graham. Darlene Graham said her opponent was, quote, batshit crazy. The person she was conceding to. That's the last ten years. That's. And I and I thought when I actually tweeted something out about. whatever posted saying this kind of politics died tonight, right? The free. there are many things that you could say about Annie Andrews.

She's a pediatrician. Batshit crazy ain't one of them. What you could say is she ran a fantastic campaign. I'm still morning, my brother. Thank you for the opportunity. South Carolina and exit. Exit gracefully. And Susan Collins, it was the opposite of that. Right. She's an old pro. That's that was her calling card with with Maine voters. She delivered the goods. She got them. You know the lobster fishermen from under the Biden regulations. about how you fit, how you catch lobsters and various things like that.

And everybody had a story like that. And yet health care, rural health care is collapsing. in in Maine and other things like that. So I think she she understood what was happening. I don't think she feels she has a future. I mean, she's had 30 years in public office and that's sufficient. Maybe she does to some somewhere in her. And Troy Jackson, you know, one thing I heard, and it really bothered me, Joanna, it was really something to bother me that there was a refrain.

about Troy Jackson that I heard in the Cook Report on CNN pundits. It kind of became a talking point candidate quality. Like he he didn't have a good. And I think it's because he spoke the way he speaks. speech generation lager from Bartimaeus with a pretty thick part. that that part of Maine accent is Malagasy. I'm up in the county and as they say, Aroostook County. And, you know, when I interviewed him, I, I the first thing I asked him, I said it wasn't the first thing. We had a little talk and then I and then I asked him, I said, look,

these things sound like they they really sounds like you're sad about them. They're like, there's a moral dimension to. And he looks at me where there's a bunch of people standing around, we're rolling. He says, fucking right I am. And and you know, he's he's working, man. And that notion that somebody who speaks like that, my dad, who's from the South Side of Chicago and. talked about the Dems and does guys, the these guys, dem guys. and those guys, the Chicago accident which he had kind of dropped,

that, that that's who Troy Jackson is. But you could hear that that kind of rough passion in him. for progressive ideals and, and justice. You know, he wasn't as as full of eloquence or rough eloquence. as Graham Platner, but he came from the same political place in many ways. And I think, I think people missed how good a candidate he was.

People trusted him. That's what it was. Wasn't trying to be anything else but what he was. And that matters. every day. Your personal information is exposed somewhere online. your email address, financial details, even your health information. It's not about being careful anymore. It's about the hundreds of data brokers who collect. and sell your data without your consent. They can't harm you, however, if they can't find you.

And that's where incognito comes in. Incognito automatically sends removal requests and follows up across. more than 420 harmful sites, helping get your personal information. removed from places you may not even know exist. Incognito can find where your information appears online, and recurring removals help keep it from coming back. You can also track your progress, get monthly risk assessments. and reach 24 over seven live chat support. To get an exclusive 60% off an annual incognito plan,

go to incognito.com/beast or click the link in the episode description. That's incognito.com/beast. You said when we. talked about him, I remember you saying very specifically he was authentic. and he's been a state senator, so he knows the Senate. So he has a sense of being a public servant. He had none of the terrible allegations that Graham Platner had against him,

and he had almost no time to mount a campaign. I mean, he didn't have. the name recognition that Susan Collins did as you said, he didn't have, I guess, the kind of performance sophistication that perhaps. Susan Collins has figured out over her 30 years in politics, but nevertheless, he caught the attention in the imagination of people. who just want someone to come in and be competent. Someone would do one more detail.

He and this was minor, but he talked about, his fellow. senators gave him one of the most thankless jobs in in. he was he ran the building like, logistically. like the contractors and made sure the staffers. bathrooms were working or he he ran the building and, that showed, I think, a degree of trust and confidence in him. And, you know, he had a kind of practical fifth generation loggers understanding.

of, you know, what you can do and what you can't do. on the budget of taking care of that grand old building. So I, I think people connected with him in a, in that practical way that I think, American voters have. All right. So now take us to Iowa, because that was a state. that, again, was an absolute nail biter. You did a phenomenal documentary. You talked extensively to Josh Tarek.

We saw him in his wheelchair playing basketball. Tell us about that race against. he was up against Ashley Hinson and it was very close. It was only in the last couple of days that he appeared to pull away. And even last night, it wasn't for granted where Michael Wolff. and I did a prediction we both thought Ashley Hinson would would win. We both thought that I would be Republican and this is an upset to it. Is Rob sand in the governor's office to the Democrat running for governor.

who has presidential ambitions, it seems, and kind of scorns the party system. So I had to belong to one party. He thinks, you know, that Americans are naturally independent voters. Now, he was saying that in Iowa, I think, for for a reason. But it seems authentic for him. And to watch, watch that space. Josh, I want to I want to come on a bit later on. and talk about presidential ambitions, because today is the day that they all start leaking out.

I think when you said he's got presidential ambitions, I'm thinking, well, he's not the only one, but let's just stick to let's staying with the Senate race for a moment. Tell us what you saw. Well, you know, I thought that Ashley Hinson might win. And in the last few days is you could feel that. wave building towards this cascade, and you could you could feel it. Everything was turning in one direction. But I kind of thought Ashley Hinson was not a Trumpy candidate. Now, she had promised to be Trump's best ally in the Senate,

which, you know, ended up hurting her, especially with with, you know, world populations who in Iowa. were had it up to here with the tariffs and the war and everything else. But she you know, she's TV anchor, local former local TV anchor. People knew her. So she had that kind of, you know, affect that TV anchors have. You know, they can communicate through the camera at a nice temperature. Right. She didn't she wasn't nasty and scornful. She and she tried to run a campaign that there wasn't full of that.

that where you know, she criticized Democrats and ended up. more and more on the trans issue and other issues. where, you know, Republicans think Democrats are vulnerable. But I thought Turek would have a hard time beating her. because she wasn't Darlene Graham, because she wasn't Ken Paxton. She was a tougher. challenger, I. thought, and and Iowa, you know, I was been pretty red. But he I'll tell you what. I asked him how it was going. He's in a wheelchair course from spina bifida when he was a kid and I.

And I said, this guy, this has got to be this guy, be hard. And he said, and he said, I, I faced harder, right? He had 21 surgeries before he was 12 years old. And he said he said this is really hard. And he was his honest. And he's a two time, three time, Paralympian, two gold medals. in basketball. And and he said, this is harder than anything. I've ever done, you know, do I want to go to the next town or whatever? He says it's difficult, you know.

And he said, but I, I know nothing is ever going to be harder than being that kid. alone in a hospital in Minnesota. recovering from surgery number 19 or what surgery number we had. Yeah, 19 surgeries before he was 12, 21 surgeries, whatever it was. And and he said nothing's going to be harder than that. So he worked. He worked. And it had nothing to do with whether he was in a wheelchair or not. That guy worked. He doesn't have a big sunshiny personality.

Once again, he's got a very true personality and he's got very. progressive instincts. You can feel the struggle in the way he speaks, you know? You can feel it in him. It's kind many. There's no indicator that. But you remember Bob Dole. You could kind of. He was. He got a sharp edge to him. But you could also feel the, the struggle in, in him as well. And I think I was connected with that. If you've been through that and you have good ideas.

and you've already demonstrated in government your abilities. and you come from from home, he's from Council Bluffs, not not a big town now, way out in western Iowa, which is, you know, a hard for Democrats to win votes in. It was enough to carry him over. I want to take your point and get you to expand on it about this idea of. American voters actually being pretty independent. And in theory, everybody's, you know, you know, you're a Republican, you're an independent or you're a Democrat, but in fact, there's.

a sort of huge swirling mess in the middle. And I think if you talk to a lot of people, they would say they're independent. Adam Hamilton in Kansas, the first Democrat to win since 1932. Just a phenomenal a phenomenal when there and. he ran almost as an independent. I mean he ran as a man of faith. He's a he's a pastor there. I mean I listened to several interviews with him and he just sounded like,

you know what? I was watching what was going on. I didn't like it. I thought the only way to solve this is to get into the race is in his early 60s, I think he's not a young man looking to make politics his career, though I suspect. he may now have presidential ambitions after a couple of years. And he's certainly be younger than the last couple of presidents we've had. But but talk a little bit about that feeling of independence. and that Americans, to your earlier point, aren't ideologues.

They want something that democracy itself is not an end point. Democracy is the vehicle to deliver the promise of the Constitution, the promise of the American dream, to allow people to leave, live independent lives where they can do what they want, have their families, have work, and have big, honest lives? If that's it, exactly that. That is it. Exactly. And and that's what defeated Donald Trump.

The very practical sense that that's none of that is happening, especially for young people. And Adam Hamilton, you know, one of the things he's got going for him is that he's been hugely successful. He's a pastor whose pastor, the largest Methodist church in Kansas, and brings that organizational understanding, how to get things done. And he walks the walk of his faith. Everybody around him has said, and he could feel it in his campaign. That's good for Democrats. And my dad's good, you know, whatever.

Wherever you are on that spectrum. Faith. No faith. That's faith. That faith, whatever. We're all equal as voters, but. a lot of people want to know where you come from. What is it that that makes you tick? So what does it makes Donald Trump dick? Well, his own glorification and money. And he's kind of frank about it. I think that's one of the reasons people forgave him for or, you know, indulged him in it because it was obvious he's an egomaniac and he's greedy. And they thought, well, we can ride that gravy train a little bit.

And Adam Hamilton and certainly James Talarico and others are, frankly, what drives them. are the values that they understand from from their faith traditions. And yet he's sharp, boy, he's sharp. He's got, you know, you could feel. you see those debates that he had with with with Roger Marshall, you know, the temperature of Kansas debates is much lower. That kind of Midwestern plainspoken. There was none of the shouting, none of this.

But but there were they were debating. But he's got this very even keel as well. And I think people after after the volcanic personalities. and everybody imitating Trump's volcanic personalities and his crudeness. and his rudeness and all of a sudden the F word is everywhere, and the R word is back, and everybody thinks they're smart. because they can call you the R word and all the rest of it. You're looking at Adam Hamilton and it's like, oh, all right, I don't have to. I can just relax with with that guy in the Senate.

And I, I do think that people feel the other. way. The. Trump way felt originally like he was going to bash down. walls of privilege, liberal privilege, right, that were educational. The public health authorities, whatever, and open opportunities for them. And they realized that that it was a sham or that it didn't work. And pragmatic pragmatist they are that like, let's calm down. This guy seems like he can actually do it step by step by step.

He's not going to scream at me. Why he will. He does. And you see that, you know he's competence making a comeback. Yeah, maybe. But I definitely think the temperature was lowered. by the American people last night because the ranting the JD Vance. I mean JD Vance is embraced a politics that died last night. It's going to be in trouble.

One skin is nothing like your typical skincare brand. And that's why I keep coming back to the most. Anti-Aging skincare is built to react to smooth over lines. and wrinkles after they show up, one skin started somewhere different, working to address how skin age is in the first place. Founded by four aged longevity scientists, they studied skin at the cellular level. and found that visible skin aging starts deeper when certain cells stop working.

the way they should and begin affecting the healthy cells around them. So they engineered oh one, their proprietary peptide. It works with the skins biology, targeting those dysfunctional cells. instead of just sitting on the surface. And over time, one skin products can help skin look firmer and smoother. with more even tone, greater radiance, and visibly fewer lines. Their science is backed by four peer reviewed studies.

and more than 10,005 star reviews. Born from over ten years of longevity research, One Skin is helping. you unlock your healthiest skin now, and as you age for a limited time, try one skin with 15% off using Code Beast at one skin Code Beast. That's 15% of all one skin.com/beast. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. And I've been using one skin for, I guess 4 or 5 months now.

You can tell yourself if you think I look any different. Well, I was going to ask you about JD Vance. Let's talk about JD Vance. Let's imagine him waking up in the observatory. I'm assuming he sleeps in the same bed as Usher Vance, his wife, who, of course, his her parents were engineers, scientists. Her mother is a science professor in California.

Indian immigrants. Usher born here. She was a gates scholar at Cambridge. She went to Yale, as, of course, did JD Vance. But they had very different journeys. I find their marriage confounding, except for you. Think back to 2016 when JD Vance called Trump Americas Hitler. And then the next thing you know, he's done. a a 180 a swivel faster than The Exorcist, and he's snuggling up to Donald Trump as they as they take the RNC.

What do you imagine JD Vance is thinking today, Terry? Oh, shit. I mean, I don't like it. I don't like to curse, but I couldn't resist. I have that habit from ABC. I think it's a good habit. I just said we shouldn't do that so much. But I couldn't resist because JD Vance earns it. I mean, I think he's he's. he knows the jig is up in some ways in this masquerade.

Here's the thing. So what do they have in common? They they probably shared relatively liberal values. Although, you know, if you have a kind of a traditional, slightly more conservative Indian. cultural background and ethics, I don't know, but the secret of JD Vance, the secret, we can all see it. The key to JD Vance is he's a weak man. He's a weak man. He's got an excellent mind. It's a very good writer.

It's a really good writer. I, I spent some time with him when that book came out. I interviewed him for Nightline and got to know him. And, in the 2016 election, he said right next to me on the ABC news set. when he was an anti-Trump guy, when Trump was, you know, terrible for his people. And Peter Thiel got a hold, it seems to me and I, I almost don't hold it against him. All right. I'm this is my understanding of his biography from what I, from how he wrote it and from what I see. You know, he came from some dysfunction. There's a teacher that took him under his wing.

Academic excellence. The way you go is kind of a dorky kid. Boom. He's at Ohio State, gets to Yale, right? And all of a sudden he's Yale. He's a Yale. He's got the he's got kind of typical 1902. or 2000, you know, Yale attitudes and values. And, and he writes this book and it's and it's well received. And he kind of stakes out some, some ground criticizing some of the habits. and mores of the people that he came from.

And then Peter Thiel gets a hold of him. There's a lot of money coming his way, and all of a sudden he's like, he's. got like a different view of the world. And the Donald Trump gets a hold of him and he's been openly racist. This man who's who was not that I find I think he just. he moves to the. to the strongest person around the top. that she seems like a nice person, but, but he's a weak man. And I think Americans sniff that. And that's one thing you cannot afford in the presidency, and people know it.

I don't think he's got a I don't think he's got a prayer. The only reason at the top of the at that post is he's, he's his name recognition. I've talked with voters, you know, people around in, in in Ohio. I said, so what do you think of JD Vance? Yeah. JD Vance yeah. You know, I have to see more. And what's once they get the same sense that I do and maybe I'm completely wrong. And he's a Roman centurion of of integrity. You know, then then,

you know, I think I don't see him as president of the United States. I'm pretty confident he's not a Roman centurion. And I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to my two sons, who I forced to read Hillbilly Elegy, even though they both balked at it. And one of them kept complaining, and I forced them to to read it. So so let's move on to the Democrats for a moment. JD fans, as you said, seems to be cooked.

He's toast. He's probably in the fetal position right now. I would think. all he's having to suck up to Donald Trump and say it wasn't that bad, sir. Well, they should act as sir, but you're you're still great, sir. Let's move on to the Democrats. Incredible showing last night. Significantly, I think John Ossoff, the senator from Georgia, was the first to come back, the first seat to be called. We've. joked about this on on the podcast before, but today really marks.

the starting gun for 2028, in both parties. Right. And for any independent candidates out there who may step forward, Jon Ossoff seems like he's in a pretty good position. And interestingly, Gavin Newsom gives up power. Now Gavin Newsom's done. I mean, I felt you didn't hear from Gavin Newsom last night. because his power, at least in the governorship as ebbed away. Who do you think we will be looking at.

for the Democratic leadership as the, as the Dems. start taking their seats in, in Congress? Yeah, that's a fascinating question. It'll be it'll be fascinating. I think it depends. Okay. But I'll name some names. But right now the most important. issue before the Democrats is they have this opportunity. People did not vote for the Democratic Party. They voted for fixing things. And Trump has said he wants to do deals.

And I have no doubt that, you know, he wants to take credit. He'll he'll he'll, you know, he'll abandon his friends and shift over to. if the and sign something the Democrats put in front of him. if he possibly can because he doesn't have to run again. and he'll you know, he'll be great in his own mind. They they can they can manipulate him, actually. And they can, you know, they may impeach him. But all I know is that this is an opportunity for Democrats. to define the the next chapter. What does it look like? And one of the things that I would be looking for that I as a voter, right, is.

I think for a long time now since the financial crisis before, many American voters. have heard government say to them again and again and again, we can't we can't do that. We can't do that. We can't do that. Right? Whatever it is education, childcare, health care, certainly all that stuff. Barack Obama, yes we can was his mind. And he he, you know, passed Obamacare,

which, you know, the Republicans have attacked, which was an unfinished product to begin with, as he acknowledged, and is now disintegrating before our eyes, plunging millions of Americans into a crisis, a health care crisis. And so, if anything, it's an opportunity. But it'll be the Democrats who step forward and say, we can do we are a can do pragmatic people. That's who we are. We're, you know, let's, let's let's build a barn together. Whatever. You know, the the whole American mythos, which has a grounding,

in fact, people come here to be something and to build something. And that's been the story of the country and the last what, the last. almost generation. It feels like people have given up in that unless unless they're tech billionaires. Why people resent them so much. You know, I mean, the big issue here obviously, was data centers. and that was bipartisan. That was suburban and rural. Nobody asked what's not working for us. And you expect us to pay for your electricity, to speak us to pay for the water that, that that you're taking?

No more of that. What the next chapter of can do, America looks like is what the Democrats should have. They don't have a contract for America or, you know, or anything like that. And Republicans are already saying, well, they didn't win and. an endorsement of any mandate. It's not a mandate because they didn't propose anything. But the Democrats who do step forward and offer things and I'll offer a name. I'm interviewing them tomorrow on on my podcast, Andy Beshear.

of Kentucky, who as head of the Democratic Governors Association and was happy. to get out there not to take credit, but kind of take credit for, you know, Hosa and Rob sand and other Democrats who who won the governorship and. and he's definitely running and one of his he figures. Yeah. I'm the governor of Kentucky and first Democrat in a long time to do that. And he has a proposal out there which he calls the fix the dam country. constitutional amendment, which is overturned, Citizens United. and term limits for the Supreme Court of the United States.

And no, no investment, no private investment in stock market by by Congress. I think there's they're basically progressive meaning like 1910. progressive reforms to get money out of politics, to return the power to people's votes and not their checkbooks. And I think that kind of thing now, Bashir, you know, is he a serious county? He's an outside candidate. But I'm interviewing him, and I figured I'd plug the big names that occurred.

Assaf is the political talent. of the class right now. It's pretty clear. But what's he done? Gives a great speech. Looks great. What's he done? I kind of think governors have the edge in this one. And so to me, maybe it was once again, because I'm from Chicago, J.B. Pritzker has been an extremely effective governor. I think and and a strong voice. for democratic values.

And he doesn't back down from them at all. And, and has, you know, has a great style of debate. Can he run on the track, his track record as the governor of Illinois? You know, we'll see. You know, the other people who are clearly running. I think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is an enormous political talent. She's got a huge following. And I think her secret weapon, and I've thought this. since the moment she showed up in Washington, is she's a a real patriot.

She loves this country. And I think sometimes she expresses her progressive values in that vein. And I think that's her most effective vein. Now, she's been a member of the House of Representatives. You know, Henry Clay tried a bunch of times from that, from that van den didn't work. So once again, what has she done? What is she delivered? I think Americans are looking for candidates who can deliver. Those tend to be governor. I don't think Newsom is is out of it all. I mean, he's he's a remarkable talent. He's almost too slick,

of course, but he knows policy backwards and forwards and can distill it. and, and advocate for it in language that everybody understands. He has that gift a little bit and that'll that'll take him away. But look, the field is I mean, Pete Buttigieg is a political talent. and has a can do attitude. They've got a they've got a deep bench. Those are just I mean, a few of the names. What do you think? Who's. Well, I was I was going to ask you, you've you've mentioned all men there,

all of whom seem plausible. Although I don't know if I don't know if America is America. ready for a gay president or an out gay president. I don't know, you didn't mention Kamala Harris. Gavin Newsom said that he wasn't going to run if Carmel around that, you know, that he wasn't going to do that to her. And he said that as he was fishing in, I think somewhere in a sort. of in a river, and he may have got himself into some hot water. That's a terrible sort of analogy, but whatever.

Saying that, because Kamala Harris is very much at the top. of the name recognition, at least in terms of when you do the kind of. polling early, early polling. Gretchen Whitmer, I think is probably going to put herself in the running. She's now got a bit of time as she leaves the governorship of Michigan. So it's it's sort of fascinating. I do think that John Ossoff, he's so good in. in those Senate hearings when he said to Jay.

Clayton, isn't it humiliating for you not to be able to say that, that Joe Biden won in 2020, that Donald Trump lost? Isn't that humiliating? And Clayton, who's an intelligent man, you know, run the Southern District. of New York chief prosecutor just looked he looked embarrassed. He looked humiliated as well. He should have done so. I don't think one should should rule Ossoff out in terms of what's he'd done. He's been very good. He was very good. Filleting Pete Hegseth, in those, in those committee hearings.

But but it is a fascinating moment, I think, in American. history as to who will emerge and what last night was about. And we haven't even talked about. And I guess we've saved the most interesting one, possibly for last, Abdul El-Sayed and then Haley Stevens meltdown in, in Michigan. Yeah. What a strange final chapter to that amazing election.

It was. I mean, the Republicans put forward a guy. who was a serious and normal Republican, right? Mike Rogers had long career in Congress. People knew him from before the Trump years. He is one of the reasons he lost is he wasn't true to himself. Right. Just like Jake Clayton, he had to continue to put on more and more of the clothes, Trumpism. And it just didn't. They don't fit nobody. They don't fit anyone, really, except for really nasty people and Donald.

Trump people. I think that's one of the problems Republicans are going to have. They own it. They own this chapter. They, they it they don't get a pass because the American people rescued them. from the from their service, from their groveling. Cowardly subservience to Donald Trump. They did that. They own it. I think voters are going to hold them accountable going forward. And Mike Rogers got caught up in it in the at the absolute wrong time.

He should have just been Mike Rogers stayed Mike Rogers. and he might be a United States senator right now. And the Haley Stevens episode. Look, you know. I don't think she's got a political future because of it. And for that reason, I thought if it was tactical, it was stupid. But I kind of think I don't know her at all. Just from from observation. She kind of fell in love with the fella. And he's very strong on the issue of Israel.

and the meeting of minds and the meeting of hearts may have, may have occasioned her to, to say, you know, I can't go with Abdullah, al said. Because, you know, all the the cartoon version of Abdul El-Sayed. is that he's, you know, he's gonna he's he's Hamas. He's dangerous to Israel. He's dangerous to the United States relationship to Israel. But he's not the cause of that. I mean, at all. He's a he's a fine spokesperson for the argument that.

the United States has has been far. too close to Israel, especially Israel under Netanyahu, and that it is high time. that we lived up to our own ideals and and once again. You know, stood for a peace between two peoples. who are living in their own countries, safe and legal, and all the rest of it. Now, I don't think that's up to say it either. But he's he's not he's not a demon on the issue. He's strong on it, as there are a lot of people. I mean, Netanyahu is a absolute catastrophe to the US.

Israel relationship. Nobody under the age of 30 trusts Israel. No. No one. I mean, very, very few people except for. And that's got to be enormously painful to so many Israeli Jews. who tied up their identity as Americans. And the journey of this country with with the. the fate of Israel and the journey of that country born, you know, under similar ideals in some ways. And I know that's you know, that that's an old fashioned way of looking at.

it is more complex than that, a lot more and a lot. and a lot sadder and more vicious in recent years. I don't think the United, the premise of the US relationship with Israel was. that we had shared their values as well as they. they supported our interests in that part of the world. There was a sense that, you know, it was a refugee country. All all that put aside, you know, I'm going to be. I'm very interested to see what kind of a Senator Abdullah said it's going to be,

he's got an edge to him and he's he's happy about it. But, it comes off to me a little off putting. It's almost like he's insecure. He's got to put anybody who's disagreeing with him. He's got to put him down sharply. Or that's just his political talent, because there's nobody who who answers Vance and Trump. And I mean, it's hilarious, right? You know, Bibi, you got to swear me in Michigan one, Ohio zero. And I, I mean, I love that.

He's a performer, isn't he? He was a former podcaster. I mean, I know he's been a public health official and he's been very effective, I think, in Michigan, which is why people wanted to vote him in. But he's got edge. He's clearly going to be a challenge if Chuck. Schumer ends up running the Senate again and being leader of the Senate. And that's still to be decided. I'm always in terms of Haley Stevens, I'm always a little nervous. about saying that women, especially a congresswoman who's been. elected several times as come under the spell of her of her fiance,

but I do think she probably came under the spell of APAC, who financed her enormously in her, in her primary against El-Sayed. And I wonder if they didn't come up to her and say, listen, we put a. we put millions of dollars into this and you need to do something for us. But I was going to ask you final question, Terry. You have covered politics for years. You were the chief political correspondent for A, B, C news.

You know as well as I do, politicians. are among the most cynical of us. Do we now see a revolt in the Republican Party against Donald Trump? We know that Mitch. McConnell, and one of the funniest jokes I got last night sent by friends, was, if only Mitch McConnell were alive to see this night. Which is mean but funny, mean but funny. But we know that Mitch McConnell hates Donald Trump. We know that the Republicans hate Donald Trump. They hate having been forced to bend the knee.

To your point about JD Vance, it's full of it. Turns out weak politicians is this, however, the moment that they turn on. Donald Trump is this when the bully is finally cornered by his own gang. and they start pelting stones at him? Yes, yes. Right. I mean, don't you think? I mean, they're lining up. They're going to line up to bash him and to declare their independence.

Let me say, you know, it depends on on their condition. But look, DeSantis last night, Ron DeSantis, first one out there, right? He wants to be president. He's the first one out. And I don't even think the polls were closed. And he was saying Trump did this. And, you know, he started he promised he wouldn't start a foreign war. And he started following the war. You know, he's he promised he'd get on top of the affordability crisis. and everything is more expensive. He was bashing Trump last night before the polls had closed in Florida. And I think they're going to be lining up, like if you're in a real rural district, people will always there are voting or Trump voters.

when he dies, the line on the line of railroad tracks for him. But there won't be anywhere near as many as you think. Trump did give people a sense of identity and an ugly identity, in my judgment. War in charge. Our people, our people have been here for generations. As JD Vance says all the time, like you've been here for generations, you're better than. Which is essentially what he says. That's what I think. He's an imposter and a weakling, and people see it. But that for for people who represent districts.

that where people feel that way, they're going to. But everybody else. who wants a future and Republican politics and electoral politics is going to have. to carve out their own identity. And more important, what's Trump going to do to him now? What's Trump going to do to them now? Exactly right is exactly right. The whole election was a repudiation of his argument that you got to vote. for Republicans, right? Which is what he wanted. And he's got nothing. He's got nothing over him. If he says if he says in a year or two, oh,

I don't like this person who's running for for Senate in, in wherever. I think this is so what. what his and his endorsement is not really going to carry much weight. because the balloon has been punctured, the spell has been broken. And to mix all the metaphors, the next two years, he's going to stumble, try to stumble back to his palace in Mar-A-Lago, and everybody is going to be noticing more and more that he's got no clothes. It's an ugly thought, actually.

But, but but he's it was all a bluff. It was all BS like it is. And I think that look, he's he's got the power of the presidency still enormously powerful. But politically he's finished. Oh, Terry Moran, it's always bracing to talk to you. It was excellent to to talk to you last night in the Tallarico campaign. It was thrilling. Well, it was great. We'll be talking to you again soon.

Thank you for joining us. And, well, as you say, it was all a bluff. It was all a bluff. If only it had all been a dream, because the Democrats. now have the next two years to try and dig out of the total. incompetent mess that Donald Trump has created. But they've got some very capable new candidates. who will bring new ideas and new approaches. And Donald Trump says he's ready to make some deals. So we'll see. Let's hope those deals aren't just deals with Putin. Terry Moran, thank you very much for joining us. We will talk again soon. Thanks, Johanna.

Terry, I always. love talking to and I think back to that time 29 years ago. when we met in Boston on the Louise Woodward trial, a terrible story. There were no winners in that story, centered around a dreadful story. of a child who died. But I remember you as the voice of calm, and you seemed to me. to be the quintessential American news correspondent.

And then I discovered when we were talking recently, that it was actually. your first big story for ABC news, and it was my first. big story for the Guardian when I arrived here as their bureau chief. Anyway, I always love talking to you. Thank you for giving us your perspective. Thank you. If you have been for for watching us, write in the comments. what you think of Terry's observations and his analysis of the situation. And that Trump well turned out to be all a bluff. The Emperor has no clothes, and the Republican politicians left.

The little group of them that are left will now. turn upon the bully in chief. Many thanks to our production team, who've put in stellar hours. after the last 24 hours. Ryan Murray, John Romero, Benji Wilson, our addition. We're adding Benji to the team. He runs our social media here at The Daily Beast, Rachel. Passer, Heather Pissarro and Neil Rosenhaus. And I'll be back tomorrow with Michael Wolff, where we'll be inside.

Trump's head, where, I promise you, there is a lot of short circuiting going on. So the good news is we have so many BBC tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.