Why Trump’s ‘Psychosis’ Has Insiders Terrified | The Daily Beast Podcast

We don't have people around the president who will say no to them. And even if we did, he wouldn't listen to them. This is so different from any other war that we have ever seen, because it is being driven. by the psychosis of one individual. And everybody in Washington knows that all the guardrails, all of the processes, all the systems that have evolved over time. to avoid just this kind of catastrophe. have been shut down, broken down.

And we've where we're left with a decaying, elderly, ignorant, paranoid, vainglorious, deluded commander in chief. making it up as he goes along. I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast. Who better to discuss the war with than the great David Rothkopf, our chief global affairs columnist who was the former editor.

of Foreign Policy magazine and worked in the Commerce Department. for the Clinton administration and now runs a network of podcasts. for his own company, Deep State Radio, and has amazing connections. in the intelligence community and in the foreign and the diplomatic corps. I don't need to tell you we're at war. Pete Hegseth is telling us to pray on bended knee. And Marco Rubio is apparently talking to the Cubans.

Who knows what will happen tomorrow? But for today. Well, we have David Rothkopf to bring some sanity. and some illumination to what feels like the creeping darkness. David Rothkopf, it's been. what does it been a week since we last spoke? And now you're back with a very fancy new title because you are officially now. chief global affairs columnist.

It's very exciting. David, thrilled to have you. And I'm assuming that the reason you look slightly low on your camera. is because you are on bended knee, per. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth telling us all we should be on bended knee. Well, he said we should all be on a bended knee to pray to Jesus Christ. This is a guy with, You know, white supremacist Christian tattoos all over his body.

And he seems to think that the way. to approach this war is holy war, that, you know, he refers to the Iranian regime as an apocalyptic regime. There were stories of troops being motivated to head out into this. fray, with talks about the apocalypse and, and, and and these kinds of issues. I have to wonder if he's ever read any history because,

you know, the Crusades didn't turn out so well. Well, I wonder if this is enough to make him start drinking again. As we know, he's, a man who has in the past, previously liked, a jar, as they call it, in the, in the UK. And, he said he wasn't going to drink on this job, on this particular job, but it seems like he's hurtling from one,

one sucker to another. When I say sucker, I mean, Asako, you, I thank you for clarifying that. Look, I think, it's certainly he's. certainly behaving like somebody is drinking. He is incoherent. The policies supporting are incoherent. He's veering around. I mean, you know, sort of Trump administration foreign policy. is sort of following the footsteps of a drunk out of the bar. Right? We go to the left, we go to the right.

We're doing this. We're doing that. I'm on my knees. I'm standing up, you know, shouting at the heavens. But, you know, it all reminds me of the line. from the movie airplane, where he said, picked, picked the heck of a day to give up sniffing glue. I do. You know, I mean, because. you gotta, you know, there's no metric by which you can assess. what's going on in this misbegotten war in which is success.

There's nothing. Okay. So, David, I know that you're. sitting there in DC in the middle of, an array of sources in the defense community, in the intelligence community, in the in the foreign services community. But what are people telling you? What are you hearing about how things are going? And to your point about it, following.

the footsteps of a drunk staggering out of a bar. Do people understand. and agree with why we are in this war? Well, yeah. I mean, a bunch of good questions. I would start by saying it depends on who you're talking to. You know, if you're talking to military people, one of the things. they'll say is the missions have been carried out extremely well. Pilots who've been called upon to do bombing runs or, or,

you know, people who've been called upon to do other sorts of missions have. executed them with the professionalism that you would expect of the U.S. military. The problem is, there's no strategy. The problem is there has been no planning. There is no sense of consequences. You know, we've been adversarially involved with. Iran since, well, almost 50 years now, right? And, Democrats have faced the Iranians.

Republicans have faced the Iranians. They've all dislike the Iranians. They've all seen the Iranians as a threat. And yet every single government. And when I talk to people, they're from those governments. Every single one of those governments thought, let's not attack Iran. because it's going to cause problems in global energy markets, because it's going to cause problems in the region, because there's 92. million Iranians, because, this could spread around the world.

in a host of other ways, including terrorism. Or perhaps some of their fissile material. gets out and gets used, in a dirty bomb somewhere. There, there. Now, a lot of bad scenarios. And I think the thing that's really striking when you talk to people. now is there's nobody, almost nobody who hasn't at the inner. inner circle of the Trump administration who thinks this is going well. There's almost, you know, there you got Republicans on TV to defend it.

because they know if they don't, Trump will come after them, in their primaries or in the general election. But, you know, talk to them behind the scenes, talk to their staff. They're terrified. You know, and they're they're terrified of what? Because in theory, as you say, the the military sorties have been successful. America has enormous dominance in the air. What are the things that they're terrified of?

Well, there's several fold, right? The Financial Times. Just said this is the worst disruption. of global energy markets ever, ever in history, right? And we've seen the price of a barrel of oil go towards $120 a barrel. We know that there is a trigger slightly north of that. for a global recession if it stays at that level. We have seen, not just interruptions.

with the flow of oil out through the Strait of Hormuz. But in the past couple of days, we've seen attacks on gas fields. The the big attack on the Qatari, plant that took place yesterday. They're now saying may take 3 to 5 years to repair. So what you see there is higher gas prices. Knock on effects that include higher,

transportation prices, higher food prices, the price of, ton of, fertilizer like urea. has doubled since January. If you're just a small farmer someplace that really hits you hard. And it will lead to food shortages. So. So, David, should we take President Trump seriously. when he says that they're going to be able to keep open. the Strait of Hormuz and that American Marines are on their way?

Why they weren't there in the first place? I do not know. Probably because this wasn't anticipated, even though people. did seem to know it was highly plausible that this might happen, that the Iranians would choose to do this. So is it possible? And do your friends in the intelligence. services think it's possible that Marines can keep this open? Well, first of all, everybody knew this would happen. And, and and when you talk to military planners, they knew it would happen.

You talked to diplomats. They knew this would happen. The intelligence community knew. that this was one of the tools that the Iranians had. The Strait of Hormuz is, what, 29 mile, 21 miles across, the Iranians can, wreak havoc there without big military presence. You can have little boats with explosives on them. You can have small a shoulder fired missiles. That could sink a big tanker. And, you know, each tanker costs $100 million.

The insurance cost would go through the roof. People are petrified by it. And, you know, what do you do with the troops? Apparently, Trump is now sending in thousands more, marine expeditionary troops into the region. The talk right now is that the white House. is seriously looking at putting boots on the ground. on Kharg Island, which is this, big, energy facility,

on this sort of northern part of the Persian Gulf. That that is, you know, once you start putting boots on the ground, then you start having people killed, then you start having pushback of the worst sort, then you start having the Iranians targeting more facilities. in neighboring countries in Saudi Arabia and Qatar and the Emirates, and so forth. It's it's it, you know, you talk about there's a term of art that's used in. Washington, the escalatory ladder.

and the escalatory ladder. So it's just the deepening of the involvement. Right. And and that is, you know, Trump says every day, well, we could leave. and it would be a big victory. But he also knows it's not a big victory. You know, the nearly 1,000 pounds of enriched uranium. that the Iranians have, they still have the scientists. who are in their nuclear program are still there. Even though the facilities were destroyed, the knowhow is still there.

The ability to launch missiles, the ability. they have a big drone industry there, the ability to launch. $10,000 drones that can do a lot of damage. All those things are still there. The regime, despite having its first and second. and third tier of leaders, assassinated by the U.S. and by the Israelis, remains in place because it's been around a long time. The opposition to the regime has been killed.

and thrown into jail over the past few years by the Iranian government. So, you know, this idea that they're going to kind of rise. up and drive regime change seems extremely unlikely. And, you know, even Benjamin Netanyahu is one of the chief agitators behind this. You know, yesterday acknowledged in a speech that, you can't do. regime change or change with an air war. And so, you know, whether whether your metric is the nuclear program.

or the missile program or regime change or. regional stability. We're worse off, right now, and there is no prospect. that it's going to get better any time soon. So so, David, as you say, a lot of this was predictable and predicted. Why was no one paying attention or why? Why? Why do we seem so unprepared? You know, if you would do,

a podcast here called Inside Trump's Mind, right inside Trump's head, inside his head. We're not we're not sure he has a. Well, I think that's that's fair. But but the point is all of the action that matters is happening. between Trump's ears. And, you know, I think. as I wrote in my Substack. a few days ago, you know, this. the the world has not been.

as negatively affected. by the psychological dysfunction. within the mind of one person. since Hitler blew his brains out in the bunker. underneath the German rice Chancellor. in April of 1945. And and what I mean by that is Trump doesn't listen to advisers. as he says he relies on his gut.

and so when General Cain says, you know, they could shut down the Gulf, he says, yeah, we'll come at him hard. They probably won't do that. And, and, and, you know, the, the story came out today, that said that, you know, a few months ago or earlier last year, actually, Doge eliminated the people in the State Department. who made assessments.

about the oil and gas industry and how global upheaval would affect them. days before the war started. Cash Patel eliminated the people in the FBI. who were responsible for Iranian counterintelligence. So we don't have experts. We don't have people around the president who will say no to them. And even if we did, he wouldn't listen to that. And and so it's it's it's this is so different.

from any other war that we have ever seen. because it is being driven. by the psychosis of one individual. And, and everybody in Washington knows that, you know, the, you know, the, all the guardrails, all of the processes, all the systems that have evolved over time. to avoid just this kind of catastrophe.

have been shut down, broken down side, you know, run around and and we we're, we're left with a decaying, elderly, ignorant, paranoid, vainglorious, deluded commander in chief. making it up as he goes along. So, so were he in the podcast studio with us right now.

Donald Trump might say, well, you say all that, but actually. there were lots of plans in 2003 when America went into Iraq. And look how that turned out. Oh, I mean, what is that response you mean? Oh, we had a lot of plans and that was fucked up. And so even though we had no plans now and this is also fucked up, it's the same. No, I'm just having plans. I think the point being that. he doesn't appear to have a plan, as you said. And as we discuss thrice weekly on Inside Trump's head,

the world is in thrall to to what's going on. between those two ears and under the carapace. of of moldy hay, as one viewer described his hair, which is still the best description I think I've had for it, isn't it? It's. It's from a poem. But it's such a good description of his hair. Moldy hay. And it probably gives off a smell, a sense of fragrance, like moldy hay to,

Yeah, yeah. I guess what I'm talking about is just the sense. in which, with the best planning in the world, things go wrong. And war right on from day from day one. So he would argue that that what? What's the difference? I'm just. I'm just plowing ahead. National security professionals will tell you. that a good process doesn't guarantee a good outcome. But no process guarantees a bad outcome.

Okay, that's a very good line. Can you just say that again? Yeah. Can you remember what you just said? No, it's a it's a it's a line. A lot of people say national security professionals will tell you. that a good process does not guarantee a good outcome. But no process guarantees a bad outcome. So what are these national security professionals saying right now? Are they in complete despair? I think many of them are in despair.

And of course, a lot of them, you know, are. asking themselves what's going to happen next? Will there be boots on the ground? Will there be an escalation? Will there be an economic crisis? What does this mean for geopolitics? You know, we've lifted sanctions. on Russian oil, which means Russia, which is an economic crutch, is making money off of this war, even though they acknowledge themselves as recently as today.

that they are the ones who are helping the Iranians target Americans. We're essentially paying them. And by we, I mean Trump is essentially paying them. to potentially do damage to American, soldiers, sailors and airmen, to our vessels, to our allies. And and how do we know? Because Steve Whitcomb said he said he wasn't.

And I take him at his word because the Russians today said, we'll stop doing that. If you. stop giving intelligence to the Ukrainians. Right. So where does where does that leave Ukraine in all this? The forgotten war at this point? Well, first of all, it's not the. there are a bunch of forgotten wars. I would point out that the Israelis have gone into Lebanon. A million people have been displaced.

Over a thousand people have been killed. And nobody's paying any attention to that war right now. But in terms of the Ukrainians, you know, there's a little bit of upside and a lot of downside. The upside is. the Ukrainians have been dealing with Iranian drones and Russian drones. for four years of now, and they're pretty good at dealing with it. And so they are actually being hired to help, various states. in the region defend themselves against the Iranian, drone threat.

Now, having said that, as good as that is for them, you know, what do they need from the United States? They need advanced air defenses. Are they going to get those? No, because we've depleted them all in the region. We're going to need more in the region. And so the ones that we would have sold to the Europeans. So they could give them to the Ukrainians are not going to be available. That makes Ukraine more vulnerable.

The United States is spending huge amounts of money on this conflict. The president wants $200 billion supplemental to help. pay for this conflict. So are we going to give more or less. to help support Ukraine? NATO, which is absolutely vital to Ukraine's defenses. And for the president of the European. Union yesterday said they were going to give $90 billion. to Ukraine, whether Hungary liked it or not, Hungary had been an impediment.

Trump today said NATO is a paper tiger if we're not involved. He's so pissed off at NATO for not stepping up. and helping out with getting ships through the Strait of Hormuz. That he's talks. privately about getting out of NATO. and that would be, you know, oh Trump's crazy. He'll he'll get over it. He's been talking about that ever since he took the oath of office. The first time he has had to be stopped by senior officials.

from pulling out of, or weakening NATO for the past. five and a half years of him being president. So, a weaker NATO that's bad for Ukraine. No missiles, bad for Ukraine, no U.S. support, bad for Ukraine. Everybody distracted by this other war. Bad for Ukraine. Russia making more money off of this war and therefore being able. to, buy more weapons and put more pressure on Ukraine.

Bad for Ukraine. So not only is this war achieving nothing, putting our allies in the region at risk, destroying the global economy, but it's also putting. a big boot on the throat of Ukraine. And and just, you know, I know it's a lot to keep track of, but the Chinese are benefiting enormously.

Well, I was just going to ask you about that. because obviously Trump has delayed his trip there. What's the significance of the delay? And what are you hearing about how the Chinese are viewing this whole matter? Well, I mean, the significance is that, you know, the big foreign policy win. that Trump was planning to have this spring was to go meet with XI. Jinping and have some kind of a deal and be seen as a statesman. He views XI Jinping as the most important head of state in the world because he is. And, you know, that would be a kind of a win.

And he's not going to get to that now. Because he's distracted by this war. He also thought he was going to go there with, you know, this this tariff weapon. that he thought he had intact, this kind of cudgel that he thought he could use. And, of course, the Supreme Court has taken that away from him, and he's finding it really hard. to, you know, put it back in place for good reason. But he's tried to do as illegal. So, so he is not able to go in and do what he wanted with the Chinese.

Meanwhile, the Chinese, you know, and and I talk to people in China and know China really well. that they, you know, quietly to themselves, they could be happier. What's happening here? United States is weakening itself. America's allies are weakening themselves. America is no longer seen as a stabilizing force in the world. that Chinese are seen as the stabilizing force in the world.

The Chinese are the number one trading and investment partner of almost. every country in the Middle East, which means when it rebuilds, when they need money, who are they going to turn to? They're going to turn to the Chinese. and Chinese influence, which has been growing in the Middle East, is going to continue to grow in the Middle East. And so, you know, here you have, you know, one of these kind of watershed moments. where you can watch the United States.

administer self-inflicted wound after self-inflicted wound to itself. and see it recede as a great power. and see China sit back and benefit. And that's to say nothing of the fact that we're taking carrier battle groups. and marine expeditionary forces and weapons. out of the Indo-Pacific region and moving them into the Persian Gulf. or in the vicinity of the Persian Gulf, which makes our allies in the region.

more vulnerable and, above all, makes Taiwan. much more vulnerable to the Chinese. And if the China if the you know, if Chinese decided to make a move on Taiwan and said, well, you know, in the past the US would say, well, that's naked aggression. Well, of. course we we can't really say that any more, right? Because we have without provocation,

attacked Venezuela, attacked, Iran. Threatening Cuba, threatening Cuba. We've attacked a total of eight countries thus far in violation. of international law, in violation of U.S. law. So this opens the door. to all sorts of mischief by other countries around the world. So, David, it's hard not to think about Mark Carney's comment that the Prime. Minister of Canada at Davos before this war that the world's rupture,

the world's order, had been ruptured, is that, I mean, especially given the complexity of the Strait of Hormuz, and you can see a scenario where the Iranians keep that choke hold, and we are in there for years trying to protect it. Do you think that is an option where America. pulls out and the strait somehow remains open?

I look I think the most likely option. is that at some point in days. or weeks, Trump says, we're getting nowhere. I'm going to declare victory. I believe that we've, you know, destroyed their military and destroyed their leadership. That's what we sent in to do. And so he'll stand up, he'll tell the American people. is another great victory following the Venezuela model. Not sure what that is, because all we did was decapitate the regime.

This regime's still there, but he'll say was a great victory. And then he'll turn his attention to Cuba. And by the way, I just tell you, it's a little bit of an aside. There was a little bit of an interesting note the other day. Yesterday, I think it was, that that didn't get picked up. But at some point, I think, during a press event, Trump was asked about the $200 billion.

that the administration is seeking, defense supplemental. And they said, that's a lot of money. You know, it's more than the cost of this war. Does that mean the war is going to go on for a long time? And Trump said, well, no, there's money in there. for some of the other things we intend to do. So so, you know, if you know, what does that mean? Right. Does that mean right? Does that mean that's the next war? Greenland. Who who who can be sure?

But, you know, Trump's usual plan. is it goes in to something he talks big, he promises a great return. It doesn't turn out that way. He fucks around, he finds out, and then he wants to change the subject, and he tries to turn it, you know? And the way he does it as president. is it goes from one controversy to another controversy. Because he knows that's what. gets the Washington press corps all agitated.

Well, then it's what distracts from what's going on at home, right? So we've got the Epstein files that people are still plowing through. and are still unresolved, and we have another 3 million due to drop. It gets us away from ice. It gets us away from, increasing in prices. It gets us away from his inability to try and tough out. The chairman of the fed, which the courts overruled his efforts. to do that and his constant losing in the courts right now.

So. And it gets away from poll results that show, you know, just terrible across the board. There was a poll today that was announced and CNN that at this time. in the last administration, the secretary of defense, General Mattis, was kind of plus 30 in approval. Pete Hegseth, the, the Christian warrior we mentioned at the beginning, he's. now down 17, -17 and approval negative. Trump is at -41.

And and his economic policies. And I think with independents he's at -60. Yep. Yes I saw that poll that Harriet with Harry and right and that. That's right. Yeah that's beyond underwater. That's somewhere in the Marianas Trench. You know. And you know that's that is. as bad a, an outcome in a poll as any American president. has ever had for anything.

And, you know, that bodes poorly for him, especially since his big his only domestic initiative that he's pushing right now. is the Save act, which is essentially a voter suppression act. And he's not going to get that true in all likelihood. And even if he did, it would get hung up in the courts, which means come November, the Democrats will control the House. It's increasingly likely that the Democrats could take the majority.

in the Senate and Trump at that moment. Tick tock, tick tock, midnight on Election Day when all of a sudden. that's clear or five weeks later when all of a sudden that's clear. Trump's over, he's over. He will never get anything done. He will be investigated for everything. I'll tell you something. This is a little DC insider thing that you like, but I was sitting with a guy who's deeply plugged in to Dems. and what the Dems and the House in the Senate are doing,

and there is an initiative right now to identify. what investigations the House. Oversight Committee will begin. the moment they take the majority back, you know, do you investigate Jared Kushner's businesses? Do you investigate Don and Eric's businesses? Do you investigate, cough and let. some their kids businesses do you investigate.

the corruption at DHS under. Kristi Noem and Lewandowski? Do you investigate, the corruption under DOJ's, the stealing of data, the transferring of Social Security data, IRS data into the FBI, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. There you could do a 100 investigation. So all you could do around the clock is investigations. But right now, while all this other stuff is happening. in little rooms up on the Capitol, they're making lists.

And Trump knows they're making lists. And as tough as he is, and as much as he thinks, oh, I have immunity, you know, the Supreme Court has my back. He used to think that he doesn't think it's a much anymore. He knows that there are real problems for him in this. Problems that may not, involve the kind of immunity protection, that he thought he had when he came in this time around.

Yeah. It's fascinating. I mean, he keeps saying, oh, I'm going to be impeached. If we lose the House, I'll be impeached. I'll be impeached. That will be the third time that he will be impeached. It's fascinating. What and how would you prioritize any of those investigations? So. So do you think, I mean, are you hearing from people that the assumption is he will pull out. or will he like so many presidents and and prime ministers before him.

in other countries, get sucked into a longer war than he expected. because it's all so much more complicated than he understood. And if he puts Marines into wherever. he puts them on Kharg Island, or he keeps them floating around. in the Strait of Hormuz to try and keep it open, what is the point. where he then declares that he can he can pull them back? I don't know, I think, you know, maybe we should turn to experts like Stormy Daniels on this.

Who said that? You know, it was kind of over fast with him, and this could easily be invasion interruptus, because, you know, I mean, he goes in, does it turn out the way that he wanted? He pulls out, he tries to change the subject. You know, and, and again, I think there's no real protection. If we're going to stretch the analogy, right. Again, a judge. So like Jeff, well, does need to stretch the analogy there.

Well, because I'm always fascinated by, in particular men. who say they are germaphobe. And then it turns out that least according to Stormy. Daniels, Trump didn't use protection. And we know that Jeffrey Epstein didn't because he was always getting diagnoses. of, you know, he was always getting stitches. Well, you know, there are people out there not among Daily Beast audience, but there are people out there. who make, you know, this is a stretch drawing an analogy.

between Trump and Epstein and Trump and Stormy Daniels and Trump and, you know, violating, women on a serious basis. And, and, and foreign policy. And, you know, it's wrong to make these analogies, but I have to tell you something. As somebody who's spent the past 30 plus years. in the foreign policy world, I don't think it's a bad analogy. He has serially violated people.

He is violent. He has a history of being disloyal, to people who were his friends or his wives. He is a lot of talk and bluster, but not well known for performance. You know, there is almost no area of his history. as a pathetic, disgusting,

sex abusing creep. That is not a perfect analogy. for his behavior as a pathetic, disgusting. national security undermining, national interest. Undermining creep. Fascinating analogy, David. Not one I've heard anywhere else. And of course, I'm proud that we're offering it on the Daily Beast. There are, as we know, always with Trump, moments of unexpected humor. There was one such moment with the Japanese prime minister.

on Thursday, when he was asked by a member. of the Japanese press why he hadn't given anybody a heads up. That, or he hadn't. given any of our allies a heads up that he was going to start bombing Iran. And he made the joke about Pearl Harbor, and he said, surprise, surprise, when you guys know about surprise Pearl Harbor, one thing you don't want to signal too much. You know, when we go in, we went in very hard. and we didn't tell anybody about it because we wanted surprise.

Who knows better about surprises in Japan? Okay. Why didn't you tell me about Pearl Harbor? Okay. Right. You know, he's asking me, you believe in surprise? I think much more so than us. And that's the Japanese. Prime minister's eyes just opened in in. astonishment, and I was reminded of that.

John Cleese sketch in Fawlty Towers where he says, don't mention the war. He's a hotelier. I don't know if you know the series, but he he plays a foul every place of single. There are only 13. episodes of Fawlty Towers, and I've watched all of them many times. Right. The best English comedy ever. And for those who don't know it, John Cleese plays, a foul tempered hotelier who abuses all his guests. Some Germans come in, into his dining room,

and he just can't stop making jokes about the Second World War. And of course, when it came out, which was the 70s, it was slightly closer to the war. And yet these this phrase about, don't mention the war is constantly. used in Britain as a kind of it's a refrain, a British refrain. But one couldn't help thinking, oh my goodness, he's turned into. John Cleese in that moment, saying the unsayable. Yeah, well, it's that I think it's a good analogy. I could debate whether Fawlty Towers or Blackadder or,

you know, any of a number of other shows are the best or The Thick of It. Have you watched The Thick of It? Yes. No, no, I've. Excellent, excellent. What was the puppet show? What was the. the puppet. Oh, spitting image fitting image. Which was Spitting Image. Also very good. But I think Fawlty Towers is the father of them all, so they don't exist with. I have to tell you. Sort of because. But when somebody says also very good. I think of the scene in Bridget Jones Diary where she's doing this introduction.

about this book, and she goes, this is the greatest book ever written. And then she sees some. And Rushdie, there she goes. Of course, other than yours, you know, it's British. You're write yours and then Jeffrey Archer's. then she goes and yours also were very good. Lord Archer. Anyway, Lord Archer, Lord Archer, in any of it, you know, this was a really ugly incident. It is funny.

But Basil Fawlty was an idiot. And Trump is something more than just an idiot. I think Trump is in a period of accelerated decline. I mean, I think, you know, you and I have talked about this a lot, but. you look at Trump now and it's like his it's like his neck is disappearing. His head is slowly. It's setting like the sun into his chest. He gets down like this for some reason. He sits behind the desk, the resolute desk.

of the Oval Office, and somebody's got his chair tool up. So the desk is now. No. Yes, that's a very good point. He should be higher up, but he's looking like a little old man. His head is down and there. And of course, he's got his blotched hand, he's got his swollen. ankles and his brain is complete mush. And somebody described this incident on the on the interwebs, by saying that. as you look at the video of him saying this with this new Japanese.

prime minister there, you could see her soul leaving her body and, and and that is, you know, that's that's kind of what happened, right? He said the worst possible thing, the biggest gaffe, and and I it led, by the way, to another whole discussion, that I had in person and also, you know, saw on the web, press, people going, was this a more embarrassing moment than when George H.W.

Bush threw up in the lap of a Japanese prime minister? There must be something about the Japanese that triggers American presidents. Perhaps it's that. Yeah, I, I don't know, but but it was worse because George H.W. Bush couldn't help himself and the Japanese prime minister. His first reaction was to be thoughtful and to take care of him. In this particular case, she just was like, oh my God, what do I say about this incredibly inappropriate analogy?

And you know, what was interesting was she. was there sort of to avoid. getting in trouble with Trump because he was going to say, send your send ships into the Strait of Hormuz. Now, she came up with some very soft language. And of course, he couldn't hit too hard, because he had made this big mistake. And I think in the midst of laughing at him.

or commenting on his decline, we missed the fact that when he does this kind of stuff, there's a big national consequence. There's a big geopolitical consequence. America loses face, America loses leverage. He is less able to achieve his goals in the world. And so it's ridiculous, but it's costly. And that's you know, that is another way to sum up the Trump administration. It's ridiculous.

But the costs are unfathomably high, which is why in the column I wrote for you guys yesterday, I said it's. too early to say whether. this war is one of the biggest screw ups in U.S. history. But if you're looking for. places where. America lost or instances where U.S. lost standing, where innocent lives were lost, where there were economic costs, where, you know,

and you say, well, there was a Vietnam War. or there was the Iraq War there, you know, there are all these things. Nothing has happened to American standing in the world. as damaging as Donald Trump's. five years in office, whether it's Covid, whether it's deficit exploding, whether it's getting rid of science and health care, getting rid of science and combating climate change, whether it's this war or the other eight wars that he started,

whether it's in the embarrassment. and the the undermining of our allies, the undermining of the rule of law, the attacks on democracy, Americans being shot in the street, all of these things. have made America weaker. than we have been in 100 years. And, are a blow to America. greater than anything that any one of our enemies has ever delivered, whether it's fascists or communists, none of them ever did.

The kind of damage that Donald Trump, president of the United States, has done during his time in office. Okay. So, David, you have to promise me that when you come back. next time, you're going to be a bit more cheerful. All right. Well, we talk about Fawlty Towers. We could talk about The Bachelorette. You know, we could talk about The Bachelorette, but it feels almost too serious to talk about. About the, you know, The Bachelorette.

But but but the Bachelorette is, I guess my my final question to you is, what feels like a decision, which I understand was was led by the Israelis. and the opportune intelligence they had about the ability. to take out the Iranian leadership, the, the, the sort of impulsive way that Donald Trump appears.

to have led America into war, makes it feel like he's going to do. something like that around the elections. And I take your point that the Safe act may not get through. But given what we know about what he's done before. and January the 6th and pardoning everybody from January. the 6th and his understanding that he may well get impeached. and that there are people making lists on Capitol Hill. of the first investigations they want to launch.

Is this a sort of all or nothing moment for him, do you think coming up to the midterms, it's his all or nothing as it gets? Because this is not just. politically existential as we've talked about here. This is existential for Donald Trump, that Donald Trump is, you know, all he cares about is Donald Trump, you know, is irrelevant.

Is he getting richer? What do people think of him? Does he have a future? Does he have any, you know, a media cloud? And, and the answer is. he will have none of those things if this goes the other way. And so he will do anything he can. He will, he will he that he doesn't care about the law. He doesn't care about tradition. He doesn't care about how people outside, you know, a. handful of people who are in his, you know, bunker with him,

think about these things. He's he's a leader who's losing it. And, I, you know, I, I, I wouldn't. I mean, no one would be surprised if he tried to take over Cuba. Tried to make it a state, tried to go after Greenland, sent troops into American cities. Tried to have his opponents. rounded up and thrown into jail.

I mean, look what he's. You know, in the past week, we haven't talked about, you know, the the way that his FCC commissioner. has come out and said, if you report negatively on the warrior traitor. and you should lose your license, I mean, that's the most direct assault. in the First Amendment in the history of the First Amendment. And that doesn't even make it onto the front page, you know, because there is so much other craziness going up. And so that, you know, the prognosis.

for the sort of stability of the United States and for the, you know, any kind of normal behavior out of the president is really bad. Okay. Well, it's Sunday. People need to have a glass of wine. They need to deep breathe, and then they need to get ready to fight another day. David, is that a fair estimate of of where we're at? Whatever adult adult beverage you want. Find something. Change the change.

Change the subject. You know, my wife always uses this expression. when she was going to school in France of the when things. were getting tough that she would go for a walk. So is she would describe it as, needing to change a lazy day. It's to. So change your thoughts, change your ideas. Yeah. That's we all need to change a lazy day and then we have to get back to it. Then we have to get back to it. I don't want anyone at the beach changing Liz idea. Liz.

Liz I don't even. Okay, sure, said Lizzie day. How do you say? I didn't say French. Yeah, okay. It day. So lazy day. Because we have to stay on this. We have to stay on this administration and the president and what he's up to. David Rothkopf will be back. in a week's time, because we're going to start our new. podcast every Monday, start the week with David Rothkopf. What better what better thing can we promise people?

Yeah, well, we'll try if we're going to start the week with three every week. We'll try every week to have a few things to look forward to in the week, and not just reasons to go and pull the covers back over your head. Okay. Good. David. Excellent. See you. Thank you. And we will talk a week on Monday. A president in decline, a war that we have. no idea how it's going to end, or in fact, why we got into it.

And as David said, the war plan appears to be much like following. the path of a drunk, as he's. staggering out of a bar, wandering into the night. Let's hope that it gets better this week. At least the weather in New York is getting better. That brings cheer to everybody. We will be back tomorrow with Kurt Anderson and on Tuesday, inside Trump's head. Whatever's going on in there with Michael Wolff.

Don't forget to leave us a comment about your favorite part of the conversation. Was it where David was describing the president's declining health, or how America has just. lost so much standing in the world? Right. And give us your comment and don't forget, as you're doing it, as our first lady would have a say BBC. So the good news is we have so many BBC team members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.

Thanks to our production team Devin, Roger Reno, Ryan Murray, Rachel Parsa, Heather Pizarro, Neil Rosen. The house.