Why Trump's Goons are Fleeing West Wing From Hell | The Daily Beast Podcast

This is a voiced wing exodus. The only get worse. We're not even at September. The midterms are coming and we are all eyes on. Who's next? Out of the West Wing, Caroline Leavitt was not enjoying herself. We are inside the length of the stretch to the midterms. It's when, once we take past Labor Day, then really, the whole country is going to be focused on what happens on November the 3rd. If the Democrats get the House, if the Democrats get Senate, you are bombarded as a waste wing employee by subpoena after subpoena.

after subpoena. There is this wide institutional problem that those who are in the West. Wing are facing. And that's why Caroline Weather is not alone. and leaving. I'm Joanna cold. This is the Daily Beast podcast. And look who's here. It's Friday. It's Eudokia t priced out of the newsroom. You can see in his shirt sleeves where he's been bossing around the newsroom.

We've spent all week wading through the news so you don't have to. And this is the perfect summary of the news and all the stuff. you might want to talk to your friends about over the weekend and argue about, like, is Susie Wiles losing control as the chief of staff? What is Mark Wayne doing or not doing? What is Donald Trump doing? What's happened to machine gun lips? Why is she actually leaving? Who's going to replace her as white House press spokesperson?

Hugh, there's a lot going on. There's tons. Joanna, I'm. I'm delighted to be back here. I do have to begin this week with an apology for something I did last week. Oh, no, I know, I know. Oh, no. What did you do? I mistakenly described the Sun King as Louis XVI. He is, of course, Louis the 14th. Louis the 16th, better known for having his head removed. So if you do not mind, don't send a tumble for me.

for this offense, which is the one that was married. to Mary Antoinette about 16, because she also had a head chopped off. Yes. Kind of bad ending for that French monarchy. Bad ending, but fun. Up until then, the Queen was great. Until. Until the guillotine came down. Right? Yes, yes. Anyway, lots of cakes and lots of sheep. And, you know, good times until the blade of the guillotine. Oh, that does not happen anymore. And especially not in the West Wing. Definitely not in the West Wing, but machine gun lips.

Levitt. Trump's favorite. I think it's fair to say. Probably white House press spokesperson. in all his press spokespeople is leaving. Yes. This is a really dramatic development. Everybody obviously has heard about this departure. It is a biggie. It is actually unexpected and more unexpected than just. oh, that's a surprise. This completely up into what we thought was going to happen.

Carolyn Levitt was so central to the second Trump presidency, and she was, you know, she just came back from eternity leave. She had been off for a month, I think, after having her. second child, her daughter, and she had come back. She told all Lara Trump how how grateful. she was to have a boss who rose to her, allows her to have it all. And within the space of, I think ten days since that Lara.

Trump interview, she suddenly changed her, changed her mind. and said she has to leave to be a mother to those two two young children. I am sure Caroline Levitt is absolutely exhausted. And also, we should remind people that after her first baby, she came back after a matter of days. Her bosses, I think, were encouraging her to take more time. She came back actually on the day of Butler, Pennsylvania. I mean, coincidentally, but I having had.

two children myself, I remember the first one. It's also exciting. You think you can do everything? You rush back to work. I was in the middle of finishing a book. You're sort of high on adrenaline. With the second one, you are exhausted because you've still got the first one. Ladies. Am I right, gentlemen? Am I right? And so I and I think to come back and deal with a boss like Trump, who I am. told was yelling at her because he's yelling at everybody. We had The mooch Anthony Scaramucci, on the podcast on Sunday, and he said it's.

widely known among Trump's aides that Trump is just meaner. You can see it. He's more unpleasant to deal with. He yells at people. He's always yelled at people, but he's yelling louder and for longer. And I'm sure Caroline Levitt, who you know, by all appearances. has a nice marriage, has a husband who's wealthy enough. that she doesn't need to work, thought, what am I doing with my life? I had these two adorable little babies at home. Why do I need to come to work and get shouted at?

And I've been shouted at. when I could go to Fox, make more money and be just as famous? Yeah, there's two elements to this story. There's the personal and there's I think if you want to call it the institutional. And it's no doubt about the personal here. Caroline Levitt was not enjoying herself. You will remember that when she came back. Trump almost immediately went off to Turkey on this trip, which has become overshadowed, of course, by the bizarre. switch into another plane through the catering truck,

of which I know you discussed at great length. with Michael Wolff, but Caroline wasn't on that trip, and that kind of raised a few eyebrows with people that she had come back after. just a month and people came of assumed she would be on this trip. She wasn't bit of a, you know, people were raising eyebrows. Well, I'm sure she didn't want to go on the trip. because she's probably nursing the baby. So she's like, I don't want to be away for three days from my, you know, month old daughter. Yeah. And you know, who would, you know?

But then there were, there was there's only been two press briefings. and there were no it felt like there was a notable diminution. of interest, that there was just less of the energy from her. And what was quite clear was that behind the scenes, she had been repeatedly phoned by Trump during that month that he was off. and the phone calls didn't, didn't get any any. You know, the woods did not get any lighter for her. When she came back, it got worse.

So the personal here is really important. But there's also the institutional. And look at the timing of this. We are inside the 90 day stretch to the midterms. It's when once we tick past the Labor Day, then really. the whole country is going to be focused on what happens on November the 3rd. And we know what's going to happen. If the polls are right, it's going to be a blue wave. that's going to be so unpleasant if you are in the West Wing, if you are Caroline over, if.

you are the other people who are leaving that we want to talk about as well, you don't want to be there. First of all, he's probably going to be throwing things, you know, and there's a lot of gold that can come off those walls. No, no, it's super glue to you. I think you'll find it's there. That's true, that's true. Crazy glue, crazy glue. I think those doodads, the gold glue dads. And we have some on our door to the studio. There was a really secure, just very, very secure. I think they're stuck on with double sided tape, but the internal atmosphere. of a of a West wing where there has been a defeat, obviously is unpleasant.

But let's just look at the other things outside the West Wing. If the Democrats get the House, if the Democrats get the Senate, and this morning. it is so close as to whether the polls say that the Democrats can get the Senate, that there's two prediction markets and they've got different predictions. So if you have that scenario, you are bombarded as a West. Wing employee by subpoena after subpoena after subpoena. You are told to go and give evidence. You spend your time with lawyers.

It's not very rewarding. And if you're Caroline Levitt, all the questions coming at. you are about those investigations. And just think about what the Democrats want to investigate. They want to investigate Epstein. They've even talked about investigating Barron Trump's links to those. the brothers, the want to investigate the grift. None of that. Do you want to be the person up there answering those questions? So there's the personal and there is this wide institutional problem. that those who are in the West Wing are facing.

And that's why Caroline Levitt is not alone and leaving. Well, just before we get on to that, I thought another moment. that made it look like she wanted to leave was when she was sitting up. and the dais with him at the white House Correspondents Dinner. Trump gave a ridiculous speech and she'd said, oh, it's going to be vicious, but it's going to be united. Unifying what it was was deeply, deeply unfunny. in a room where humor actually is the currency of the day.

And and previous presidents have been hilarious and joined in. Even George W Bush, you know, at the height of the Iraq. War, was able to come and sort of take in coming. And it's just part of the currency of Washington. And he was terrible. And he knew he was terrible because he's a man who can read a room. And he kept saying, who wrote this? Who wrote this? Oh, this isn't very good joke. So he was distancing himself mid speech from his own speech. and you could see her thinking, what am I doing here?

She was just back. She looked miserable. You could not mistake the body language when they were on this stage. Dais, whatever you want to call it. This raised platform. and the cameras were on Trump and then they were on the wider shot. It was on Caroline. She didn't look happy. There's no point in you know, you can't spin this. And just I think we should talk about, you know, her relationship with those reporters who went into that room. And let's put aside the rights and wrongs of being there.

And I'll just say that the Daily Beast, we sent one reporter to report on this. event not to take part in the celebrations, or Farrah. Thomson was there and did a brilliant job of detailing the crazy atmosphere, the feeling speech, the unfunny jokes and the long and failings. I mean, you know, he didn't even do that thing that comedians do. when they know they're bombing, which wrap it up, wrap it up. He he went on and on. What was quite obvious is Caroline actually has behind the scenes.

good personal relationships with a lot of people in there. She is on camera. There's, you know, this sort of machine. gun ellipse, unstoppable persona. But she does engage with people. She does speak to people. She maintains friendly relations with white House reporters. And you're she's sitting up there and can see what's happening in front of. Or she knows what that does. She knows the atmosphere that that creates this, this decision.

People don't make decisions for one reason, right? Unless there's, you know, there are people make decisions for personal, catastrophic reasons. There's no catastrophic reason here. There is a series of incoming events that make clear that the balance of. whether you want to do your job or not, that judgment has shifted. because of all the things that say, this is not a great job. Well, and also, if you're Caroline Levitt and she's the first. or she's the youngest, youngest white House press spokesperson. So she's got a lot of road ahead of her.

She already tried to be a congresswoman and she's a failed candidate in New. Hampshire, which doesn't mean she's given up. on her expectations of getting into some kind of elected role. She's now seen it more up close. Maybe she wants to be president. Who knows? She's been, you know, in the Oval Office enough that she might think I could do this job. better than Donald Trump. And Caroline, you might be right. She could be Sanders flip this job. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, governor. Yeah. Lost. What did she lose? 60 pounds.

And she became Arkansas governor. So and I said Caroline might go off to Fox, which is where. I'm assuming she might go, because Kelly McNerney is there. You go further back. Fleischer is still on Fox. I'm what's what's different for my very Ari Fleischer was George W Bush. Yeah. And Kayleigh was killing Trump last Trump one spokesperson. Right. So what is different about these press secretaries know is there used to be.

there was for a while a conveyor belt that you could be the press secretary. and off you would go to the corporate world and make a lot of money, and maybe you would go and work for a big blue chip company. like Jay Carney, who works for Obama, who's probably the most recent very good. example of this, who went off to Amazon as their corporate spokesperson, the last Trump, the last bomber press secretary, United Airlines. There have been people who've gone to Airbnb. There's been a whole, you know, selection of people have gone to places.

Others have set up their own big lobbying stroke PR agencies and done very well, like Joe Lockhart from Clinton years and the Trump press secretary. don't have that opportunity open. to them of this corporate world because they are divisive figures. And however good their advice may be, it's. not what you want in your boardroom because you are going to be associated. with the Trump brand, so you keep them at a distance. So Fox is obviously a place that she will be looking.

Well, I remember Hope Hicks had this issue actually, and she wasn't depressed spokesperson, but she was someone that worked for Donald. Trump and became very associated with him. And she'd been chosen because she did PR for Ivanka Trump, became a very close. adviser to Trump, and then got caught up in all the investigations. And when she went out into the market looking for a job, I was on a kind of circuit of people that she was interviewing with. She was absolutely terrific in the room, incredible hair. that she kept playing with.

I mean, very attractive, interesting young woman, but not someone that we wanted to take the risk at. Hurst of hiring, because I had staffs. of young women who were just going to say, no, we're not going to work with her. And she ended up I mean, I talked to other people. I talked to people from HBO where she interviewed. She ended up at Fox, which was just the natural bedfellow. Then she came back into the white House, and I think she's now back at Fox. No, she's back advising. She's been advising Republican candidates. Okay.

So she's right. So essentially she's gotten stuck in a, in a political kind of bolthole. because corporate America is too sensitive to their employees. I think at this point, I think I had this argument with Michael Wolff this week who was like, oh, they all go into tech, blah, blah, blah. It's not an issue that they've worked for Trump, but I think it's an issue for a lot of the staff. I think if you were to hire Caroline Leavitt as a spokesperson, alphabet. or one of the Google companies, the Google staff would have an absolute freak.

Well, I think there are we know there are, you know, Republican operatives who have gone into the tech world. And Mark Zuckerberg, for example, has won it, as you know, as a right hand figure. in the form of David McCormick, the Senator, David McCormick's wife, Dina McCormick, and was a deputy national security. adviser under Trump one, Trump one, but also has had a corporate life. Well, Goldman Sachs but also. I think the point is not household name. Right. And that's that's the that's the real thing here.

Caroline Levitt is one of the most famous women in America at 28. That's quite a thing. But it clearly has a limit about where she can go in her career. So sure, Fox has probably, you know, probably on her bucket list. We don't know. One thing that we do know is that Trump is going to be trying to keep her on. as some sort of advisor, as some sort of, you know, kitchen cabinet member. I think they used to be called because he really, really.

wants her inside the camp, not because she's going to be disloyal, but to make it easier when these subpoenas come forwarding in to say, oh, you've got privilege, you can access executive branch legal advice. You can avoid these questions because it is almost inevitable. that she is going to get subpoenaed time after time after time. And if she has some sort of advisory role to the Trump White House, then that appears as a bit better legal cover to not answer those questions.

So she'll be protected by privilege if she stays within a close, make that argument that she is protected by privilege. Of course, that's a complicated question. And we saw in the first Trump White House that they desperately tried to avoid, but ultimately they had to give some grown sometimes. And Caroline was a lot of secrets. She has been right there in the Oval Office, so she knows the size of his candles and I, and she knows if they're big or they're little today,

depending on what's happening with his chronic venous insufficiency. But this is you know, this goes back on the health front. She has been the one person who has spoken about his health. Jamie Raskin, the Democrat, has a plan to have a proper investigation. into his health and set up a committee, which is something. that's in the 25th amendment to monitor the president's health. So who would you subpoena? Absolutely. You'd subpoena Caroline with it. Does she want that? I do not think she does.

Well, and I'm sure her husband is saying, goodness. Why do you need all this? We've got plenty of money. He's a businessman. You've got two little children. Do you really need the hassle? Because I'm sure she comes home every evening and she's like, oh, her hair is on fire. That beautifully crafted hair. But she's probably like, he's probably saying to her, like a lot of couples do, after you've had two children, you know, how can we make this work for all of us? Memorably, of course, really need this right now. Yeah. And memorably, her husband is 60, so, you know, he's 32 years old, years old.

And she is. So he's probably, you know, feeling exhausted, having to monitor two children all day. But all of this, all of this talks about West Wing that's got it's got people leaving. And then even more excitingly, who's coming in, who's coming in to address the press. Final note on Caroline Levitt. I bet the press were furious with her over being uninformed about the planes. This has been. Yeah. And I'm this switch in the plane.

We know that the press were lied to. And there is a you know, let's be clear about this. You get on Air Force One as a journalist, I have never had. I don't think I've never been on ever so long to go on Air Force One. They're not with this. Yes, but you know, many colleagues who have we have a team who report from DC. You know, we we know what goes on on Air Force One. There are a handful of journalists. Go on. There are lots. and lots of military personnel and staff who are not Trump appointees.

These are people who are serving their country. They were all used as decoys in this scheme. The only people really who can speak up are the press. And yes, the white House press feels very, very angry about this. They have made representations to the white House. And if you're Caroline, this is a you know, this is a point. where those people that you've caught, you have decent personal relations with are saying to you, you lied to us. And by the way, it appears you were happy to let us die as decoys.

That's not something that you're going to enjoy if you're Caroline, I have it. No, and she may, you know, who knows? She may actually have some kind of, And we don't know. She she might honestly actually have advised against. She may well have advised against a couple of press into your. Yeah. Because we know what has happened before. This is what happened. Clinton trip and who I happened to mention was Clinton's. press secretary at the time of this time that they did a switcheroo.

They went and briefed the head of the white House. Correspondents Association at the time that they were going to do this, and they didn't put journalists on the. the plane that appeared to be the most likely to be targeted. So this is not this is not standard operating what you normally do. Yeah. No, it's an exception. And I'm sure Caroline Levitt didn't have to want to explain it to people know. because it was sort of inexplicable. Yes, but but who's coming in you. Well, to replace machine gun.

Well, I know that you you've already discussed this with Michael Wolff. the previous day. This is this is a fairly fast moving situation. Scott Jennings was absolutely the initial frontrunner. He is a fanatical Trump on television. Well, he's been auditioning for the job. He's been on CNN where he is was in fact asked on CNN and he dodged. He obviously and he dodged some more. So, Scott, if you're listening, give us a call.

And Scott, if you are listening a give us a call and B, Where's Mitch McConnell? Where's Mitch McConnell? I know you were talking. to him for 20 minutes, but where is he now and how's he doing? Two months to Joanna, two months a day since Mitch McConnell was in evidence. So if you're from Kentucky and you feel you haven't been represented, don't call us. Call Mitch McConnell's office. We should get the number, actually, and put it up and call. Ask after the senator, give him your best wishes,

and then demand to know who's representing you in the Senate. So, yes, Scott Jennings, initial frontrunner, the prediction market, we think I don't think although. Michael immediately. hit back at me with this, I don't think Donald Trump likes beards. I know JD Vance has a beard. Scott Jennings has recently grown a bit. Scott Jennings has been trying out new looks. He he I know you are doing a lot of them.

A very close follower of Scott Jennings. I watch far too much CNN clearly, but Scott Jennings has either been on. an extremely vigorous and incredibly disciplined food and exercise regime, or he's been taking a GLP one because he's dramatically lost weight. He's now got a beard. And I don't know if Trump likes beard. I bet the condition of the job might be that he has to lose the facial hair. Maybe that's why he's grown it.

Interesting, I said analysis. Maybe he doesn't want to do the job. I'm pretty confident. that there has not been a press secretary with a beard in recent times. Well, certainly I'm not going to make any projection farther back in history. As you know, I don't know my French kings. So let's not go to back and far back and press secretaries. But yeah, Trump not a big beard fan. JD stands out as having won his son Don Jr. Yeah, usually has won. Not always. Eric has sported them occasionally.

Donald Trump's never had a beer. We knew Donald Trump's never had a beard. Many men have never had beards. Just pointing out. But it's something that Scott has done recently. So he's been playing with his appearance. He's been essentially auditioning for the role. ever since he's been on CNN, no doubt about that. Do you want that job? I think you know, those people that we can up. or those senators waking up and say, good morning, Mr. President, in the mirror. I think we know what Scott Jennings says.

Good morning, Mr. Press secretary in the mirror. But he's not the only one that is in, in in the running, running in the field of interest. And interestingly, Anna Kelly, who is already in the white House, I'm one of Caroline's deputies. She's now ahead on the prediction markets. No. Can we trust these prediction markets? Also in the running, Eleanor Harbor, who was briefly. the United States Attorney for new Jersey. and then turned out wasn't legally appointed.

and is mentioned in one of Michael Wolff's books on Donald Trump, one of his four books, because she was selected to be a lawyer. for one of Donald Trump's many cases. in that kind of interim period between presidencies. And he met her at Bedminster, where she is a member of his club, and she was wearing a bikini and lying on the edge of the pool. And he thought she would be a great member of his defense team. And as he said to Michael, I may not have the best lawyers, but I have the hardest lawyers.

Well, it's one way to select your legal team. We'll see how hot they are when the subpoenas come in. Mr. president, also on the list, Monica Crowley in from the past. She's been around for a long time in Trump world. She her best known weirdly for her close alliance with Richard Nixon. Niche. Seems old to do that job. because that job is very much a front facing job of the white House. Well, I think which is why I think Anna Kelly is an interesting choice.

Is she even younger than she's? I would she's about about the same age. I think she might actually be a year older. She's certainly been giving a lot of statements recently. She is definitely six months. She's become more and front and central. Monica Crowley should say, by the way, age. For any normal world, she would absolutely be in the running. a prominent she does well on television. She's an articulate of the MAGA position. But this is Trump he has consistently picked after Sean Spicer.

Young women, younger women, blond women, mostly, well, Arkansas lady. And so yeah. And Stephanie Grisham as well also does who never did she never the briefing. But in general there is a type and she's not she's not in it. And then after that really everybody is going off in different directions. and suggesting different names. Katie Miller has been floated. We are very sure. there is no possibility of Katie Miller becoming the white House press secretary.

Float her name. Did Katie Miller float? Katie I don't think we can rule that out. Stephen Miller may have floated. Katie I can recommend your searing interview. with the Secretary of State and his wife this week. I watched that with great curiosity. If you would like to know more about the Rubio's marriage, I suggest you watch Katie Katie's podcast. That's you could double reviews there, Joanna. I might double her views.

I noticed it hadn't had, so I'll do. I'm looking forward to the comments. about us recommending Katie Miller's podcast Purely Anthropological People. All I can say is that Mrs. Rubio, well, Mr. Rubio does most of the talking. Mrs. Rubio sits there looking deeply uncomfortable, deeply uncomfortable. And I'm not talking about the chairs. Well, he, of course knows about deeply uncomfortable chairs. because he was sinking into that sofa. And that started the meme. So, Marco Rubio or Marco Rubio? Well, he knew what he was getting into, and he gets House out of this.

on a military base, as he was talking about with Pete as his neighbor, and who would not want that Pete access and a cat. Has a cat. Yes. It's a very bizarre life in the well. He has seven children, so cat's not going to make any difference. Yeah, well, but just let's just go back to this. Who's coming in? Sean Duffy has nine children. This is. We should do. We've never done an audit of the cabinets, children.

And we should. Is this the cabinet with the most young children? I think it might be. It's. You know what it might be. It's possible. We're going to have to put somebody on that for some deep research, because they'll have to go back a long way to work that out. Well, our audit of Melania and how much time Melania has spent. in First Lady duties was extremely revealing, because it turns out she's done. fewer First Lady duties than any recent First lady, and certainly any first lady.

this century, and she has not been seen now since July the 19th. So she and Mitch McConnell might be awaiting she she possible. she is likely Alliance Scott Jennings you will know. Yes. Scott they're both missing here. She's been missing for half a Mitch McConnell. If that is no unit of time I think well if the if the moot can be. if the Scaramucci can be. Although the thing about the Scaramucci is has got an end. point and Mitch McConnell is still missing. So this is an expanding unit of time.

We need Stephen Hawking here to tell us how that works. Black hole. We're in a black hole. McConnell. However, let's talk about the black hole. in the West Wing and the black hole and the West Wing is people are leaving. We've spoken at length about Caroline Levitt because what an amazing story. But she's one of four people to vanish just in August. And these are not nobodies. This is not junior. People who watch the white House counsel, David Warrington. Yeah, the white House counsel, the deputy national security adviser, Andy Baker.

And by the way, there is not a real national security adviser. It's Marco Rubio. It's one of his 203 jobs. But this this guy Andy. Baker was JD Vance as national security adviser. He is the deputy national security adviser. This is one of the most important roles. And we have a war and he's leaving. He's off leaving. So and also the general counsel is leaving in the middle of the war. and yeah, the white House counsel leaving.

There's an obvious reason for this. And it's all about those subpoenas flying in. He doesn't want that. What lawyer wants to be like, oh God, what am I going to do? Oh, I'm going to answer this pile of subpoenas. And then just as it's gone down, oh, it's back up again. Jamie Raskin has been in touch. You know, it's not it's not pleasant. What is important here is it's coming in. this ratatat of departures. And that's bad. This is a waste wing Exodus. This is band Exodus. Yes.

And the thing about Exodus. Exodus is X and die, they only get worse. So here we are. We're not even at September. The midterms are coming, and we are all eyes on who's next out of the West Wing. So it's rats leaving a sinking ship. And you said after the midterms, you know, it could be an absolute nightmare. being in the white House, because it's going to feel even more under siege than it feels now. But the anticipation of that, I think, is also really gloomy to work in.

And a lot of these people right now have the opportunity to go. David Warrington, I'm sure, is going to a white. go and make some more firm, go and make some money and also get out. from this incredible presence of the president. Oh, right. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I'm among among those other ones that are leaving. Abigail Jackson, who was one of Caroline Levitt's. deputies, was out the door beforehand, quite nakedly, to go and make money. She's gone to work for a PR and lobbying firm. So it's would you want to be in there when things are going bad?

Well, I think also the other person. who's sort of missing, although she hasn't left is Susie Wiles. You know, she's having treatment for breast cancer. We have a story on the Daily Beast website today by Tom latch in his Punch. Up Substack, which reports on. how Mark Wayne Mullen, who was brought in. as the replacement for Kristi Noem at Homeland Security, managed to circumvent the usual procedures.

to get his number two in the job. Now, normally, Susie Wiles would end up having a vote on this, so would Stephen Miller. But what Mark Wayne Mullen did, which is something that Kristi Noem did, advised by Coriolanus, who's one of Trump's advisors. and a very close friend of Kristi Noem, and spend a lot of time flying around. in the homeland Security jet,

he managed to get to Trump on a Saturday night when there was no one else. there and said, hey, I'm bringing this fantastic guy to be my number two. He's going to be the head of Ice, very important agency right now, especially as they've been loose with the bullets in ice. And we all remember. the two terrible deaths in Minnesota of Alex Preti and Rene Nicole. Good. This has led to extreme. concern with those around Trump,

because we've now got a former highway patrolman who was part of Mark Wayne's. Marc Wayne Mullin, security detail in charge of Ice. There's two amazing stories here. wrapped into one mark wind Mullen takes over at Homeland Security. He needs somebody to run ice. They they have to be confirmed by the Senate. Susie Wiles is, of course, chief of staff. She's the gatekeeper. She decides about key appointments. Ultimately, Trump decides. But Susie Wiles says yes or no.

Well, and I think she can sort of filter the shortlist. Right. So only the candidates that she likes get in front of Trump. It had been very clear that she was not in favor of this. Lance Royer, who was from the Oklahoma. highway patrolman who had become the head of. He's the guy. Let's just remind me he's the guy patrolling the highways. Yes. Right. So he comes to you if you've pulled over with a flat. tire, he's the guy that pulls up and says, are you okay?

Have you called? You know, recovery. Or maybe he puts his lights on. If he sees someone driving badly. Yes. He then became the head of Wayne Mullins security detail, and knew. this might be kind of fun because Mark Wayne Mullin is a former fighter. I mean, he might have he might be a fun guy to be on patrol. Right? And, you know, I'm not sure how high profile the security threats are to Martin Mull. And I don't think this is probably higher now than they. Well, I think they are now.

Yes, but Martin Mullen was not getting him past the on the shortlist. He was not getting this guy past the shortlist. Susie Wiles. went to go to her daughter's wedding and her daughter was getting married. Of course, at the Trump vineyard of the Trump Winery in Charlottesville. I don't know if you've ever had the wine from there. Joanna. It's slightly sweet. Just tell. I never had the wine. Never had Trump. I didn't know Trump wine was still going. Trump wine is still going. And you can go in if you wedding coming up and you're in the Trump inner circle,

that is the place to go. I'm looking forward to it being dispatched to schools, you know, across the country as a new obligatory drink for children. I mean, come on, how can Linda McMahon not have organize that for Donald Trump? So, you know, Susie Wales was very busy celebrating her daughter Caroline's. marriage, as you would be, and Martin Mullen. got to Trump, said, this is the guy.

and got Trump to put out a Truth social saying, this is the guy. You need to confirm him to the Senate. Imagine me, Susie, while you're at your daughter's wedding. Susie relaxing. You've been ill. How wonderful. Your daughter is getting married. She's happy you're at Trump's vineyard. It's all good wine. Sweet. And then you go to truth social hop. It pops on your phone. The truth social? Yes. Right. I way patrol man has been got ourselves a convoy.

So this. You know, what does this tell us? What it tells us. First of all, is. Yes, this is a chaotic West Wing. Yes, but which we knew, which we kind of knew this. But Susie Wiles had got that under control. And. No, it's back away. It's not under her control. It's chaotic. And not only that, she's angry. We have a quote from a senior official in the white House. who obviously has familiarity with what the atmosphere is,

and this person describes Mark Wayne Mullen and others. who try to do end runs around Susie Wiles as bad actors. Now, briefing about bad actors in public. That doesn't say that that Susie Wiles has got this under control. It says her grip is slipping. Now, there is a weird subplot to this. Susie Wiles daughter was getting married to a young man who, as it happens, is a businessman, and his business is what is known as gas station marijuana.

Candy, I have not partaken. I don't know about, you know, marijuana candy, but if you've that, you sell. If you've ever stopped like gummies. Exactly. Gas station. Yes. If you've ever stopped and seen behind. Sounds like a job for a highway patrol. Very high highway patrolman and things that are called things. that they're branded things like train wreck and the Lord. They contain.

low level, intoxicating hemp products. The reason I mentioned this is you can't make this up is not this this. this new this new NY contains thc. this new annual Bret Wali has been pushing he that's his business. He sells these products. He sells vapes as well. He sells gummies. They are sold very, very widely. I hope not to children. Well, obviously. No, I mean, there's no way. this is a legal business, but there's so very widely a particular gas stations. The Senate has been trying to regulate hemp and particularly intoxicating hemp.

And you may remember in recent weeks there was an eruption in the Senate. because the white House was trying to stop these new enforcement measures. And again, this goes to Susie Wells's grip slipping. because Republican senators came out in public and said, we are really unhappy about this attempt to stop this and suggested. that it was related to Susie Weiss son in law and his business interests, and that this is all about the grip is weakening.

This West Wing hold grip is weakening. There is an exodus. Where are we looking for a departure? You know, first of all, people are lined up to depart. But Susie Wiles, everybody is wondering, is this the moment. where she says, I've also had enough because she's lost. She's lost this control. She's lost this gatekeeper function. There are people on Capitol Hill asking questions. And by the way, just go back to this hemp issue. Guess who's going to get more subpoenas about that?

Susie Wiles? Well, Michael Wolff has always maintained that Susie Wiles. would leave at the midterms. I wonder if she loses. I wonder if she leaves earlier. And we know that, you know, Melanie is basically left. if Anchor and Jared didn't even join Trump to he's an isolated. This is a much more isolated presidency than we've ever seen with Trump. And Trump doesn't work through isolation. He's not a lonely figure. As you know, Obama was sometimes portrayed as somebody who was very alone and aloof.

And I think, you know, you met Obama repeatedly. And I think many people say that's not true, but that was a perception. But Trump, he loves it up with other people. Well, the loves and all to rise. He needs people around him. Well, and the other thing that Obama had was. he had a wife and children in the white House with him. So he had a semblance of normal life. I mean, you know, and many people argued that actually, he shouldn't have been having dinner as often as he did with his kids, and he would have been better meeting politicians across the aisle.

Putting that on one side, what he did have was a family to ground him. Donald Trump only has television to wind him up, so we know he goes to his bedroom and watches himself on television. Is he is he dominating the news cycle? Is it all about him? And if it's not, he's he's furious and then starts truth socially. to create more drama around himself and drive the narrative forward. Yes. And I think, first of all, again, this comes back to Carolyn Levitt.

That's that's how he's driving the narrative, the forward. You've got to defend that. That becomes more and more difficult. The more and more. that Trump is isolated from other people, and the more those decisions are problematic. The the Lance Shroyer a point or endorsement. or sort of demand that he be confirmed as an Ice director, that's kind of difficult to defend when when. when Carolyn Levitt goes to Susie Wales and says, how can I defend this? Susie Wells isn't exactly going to go, oh, well, I was totally behind this.

because we all know it was done behind her back, while her husband. while her daughter was getting married. Well, and also the other thing that people have consistently said about Donald. Trump is that if you're the last person to whisper in his ear, that's when you have your maximum executive. I mean, Bill Clinton was supposed to be the same. David Rothkopf said this on Monday that if you could get to to Bill Clinton. just before he was about to make a speech and whisper. something, it would probably get fed into the speech somehow.

But Donald Trump, clearly, you know, he clearly appears. to have a fairly short term memory at this point, too. Well, last person to talk to him is the person that gets the yeah, whatever the worm, whatever. This is a sort of relatable thing that anybody who's had a boss will say. You know, people always say that about bosses, and then people become bosses and then think, that's not true at all. No, tons outa is. But, but it's very relatable. It's a very normal thing.

He's 80, he's increasingly old, he's increasingly obsessed by certain things, but he's the president, and those around him. have to want to be there and have to want to govern. and have to pull the levers of government to make these things happen. in an atmosphere in which it's increasingly difficult. Why would you? You know, I think the question for many people now in the West Wing is not. why would you leave, which it had been for some time, why would you stay?

Why would you stay? How incredibly damaging do we think Mark Wayne Mullin stays? Do we think Trump gets rid of him? Do we think that Trump has let loose on him? Well, you know, Martin has had a rocky few weeks. He also when people are leaking about you you know that the. you know that's not good to wake up and find a leak in the Wall Street. Journal or the New York Times saying the skids are under you. Yeah, it's not enjoyable, I think. I think the thing is that Trump.

doesn't want to give away a weakness before the midterms. How long is that sustainable for? We don't know. There are other cabinet secretaries who have problems. Pete Haig has a floating crisis in the USS Lincoln. But I think the thing we should talk about is where's Trump's mind? Well, Hegseth also has a problem in that they've started leaking that Pete. Hegseth is the one that was persuading Trump that a war was a good idea. with Iran, that it would be over quickly, that he very much sided.

with the Israelis in terms of, you can do this, take out the leadership. The people of Iran will revolt, and it will be easy, and you'll be viewed as a conquering hero. In fact, none of that has happened. He's backed into a corner, and there's no obvious solution to a war. that was completely unnecessary that other presidents had chosen not to. do, and that Trump has been bamboozled into by both the Israelis and by Pete. Well, here's here's the other the other argument on this, Joanna, is,

does Trump really mind because we've got a good idea of what. Trump has really obsessed about, and it's actually not immigration and it's not the war. It's definitely not the economy. In fact, what I think we should do is play a clip from Caitlin. Collins, who Trump is obsessed with, by the way. Smile more. Caitlin, remember, but we've got a clip from Caitlin Collins. that says what he's obsessed by, and it's a really good. summary of what he's obsessed by. Now, the president's focus has not just been on the Kennedy Center.

in terms of his broader push to remake Washington, it's also his penchant. for branding everything in his name that includes the gold coins, the Trump. passports, the national park passes, the Palm Beach airport. I'm not done. The banner at the Justice Department, the new class of battleships. There are many things not just in Washington, but all across the nation now bearing the Trump name. He's obsessed about the Kennedy Center, about having his name on things.

And that's another aspect of this, this West Wing. That's what he's shouting about. That's what he's interested and that's what he's obsessed by. And again, why would you stay? You've got to navigate that. You've got to keep his name on the Kennedy Center. Well and also the voters, his MAGA base aren't interested. in where Trump puts his name. They just want, you know, they want better prices at the pump. They don't want boys and girls sports, which is not actually a thing.

But MAGA has become a thing. And they want, you know, they want what everybody wants, which is a kind of safe. job, access to your friends and family and a sense of stability, I think. Yeah. And the they are not dialed in on monumental. Is that a word, Donald I like it, I think. Yeah. And also one of my, one of our colleagues, one of our younger colleagues. used to train the term described it as Trump maxing. Trump maxing.

That's Esposito for that. Nora. That's an excellent Trump maxing. He's Trump maxing Washington yeah he's Trump maxing. But his base doesn't live in Washington and doesn't see this. and and doesn't care about the gold standard errors. Right. But that is what occupies his time and his focus. And also the interesting thing is that the Trump maxing, were it to be effective, might be a win for him. But we know that the ballroom is a total debacle.

We know the reflecting pool is a total debacle. In fact, when they arrested the Olympian. Davy Hearn, Olympian kayaker, for what they claimed was vandalizing. the reflecting pool, it was Trump's own US attorney in D.C., Jeanine Pirro, Judge Jeanine from Fox News who actually is a real lawyer, amazingly, who said, no, no, no, this was shoddy contract work.

This is not a former Olympian ripping up the bottom of the reflecting pool, which was supposed to be American flag blue for the 250th anniversary. Right? This is shoddy contract work, given on a. no bid contract by the Department of Interior's. And, of course, I don't think anybody can feel any sympathy here for Judge Jeanine. This is not a victim's story, but this week. she's back, contorting herself to try to see. if she can get the prosecution back in action against David Heron.

And we know how that will end. It's going to end in humiliation. There's no there is no way on earth that she can get David Heron. banged up for ten years as a as a vandal because none of it's true. And she's already undercut her case. And what's more, our colleagues in DC for Thomson. is revealing today there's going to be an ethics complaint made against her. And she is a lawyer. Joanna, there is no more embarrassing thing, I think, for a lawyer, particularly one I don't mean this uncharitable,

but judge is towards the end of her career, she's 75. To bend. your career with this to your career, right. It's it's a personal humiliation. She's undergoing it to save her job from Donald Trump, who publicly. said, oh, I don't know if she's going to stay in it. So again, a reason to stay. Not really a reason to go. Absolutely. Well, she's used to public humiliation.

I mean, when she was a day. I know you were a close follower. I it's a remarkable lived in New York City 30 years. And I was always fascinated by Judge Jeanine because she was a Da. in Westchester and her husband went to jail for tax offenses. Yes. I mean, I couldn't believe it. Yes. Albert Pirro. got got pardoned, of course, by Donald, Donald Trump by one Donald, Donald Trump. But, it just shows you, first of all, we've talked about people, an exodus from people going.

there are some people who really determined to stay. And Judge Jeanine clearly is really determined to see. So Donald Trump can pardon people right now. Right. He can pardon he could pardon us tomorrow. Not that we've done anything. Not that we've done anything or need a pardon. But yeah Donald Trump can pardon anybody. So federal offenses pardon people ahead of the subpoenas coming in. Well I would have said. before until recently I'd have said maybe he'd try that.

But the slate floor is his own MAGA Republicans in Congress who, as you will. remember, dragged Anthony Fauci, the distinguished public servant, the doctor who led the country through Covid, in front of a Senate panel. He had already been pardoned by Joe Biden. He took the Fifth Amendment and they said, we are going to try to prosecute you. for contempt, and they are in the process of trying to do that. So unfortunately, source for the goose and source for the gander.

might apply here. And it may be that you can't be pardoned from a congressional subpoena in a way, but it may be that the protections that are available to the executive. branch have been accidentally weakened by Rand Paul and his collective. So there are a lot of Trump is one of those presidents who has opened. so many Pandora's box about constitutional law, about relations. with Congress, about what happens to people who are, you know, in his family,

about ethics, about any of the any number of constitutional questions. And it looks like there's probably another one here about subpoenas. and about how contempt of Congress works. We we will wait and find out, I guess. But in the meantime, there's a lot of people who don't want subpoenas in any form. Well, we don't want subpoenas, Huey. We don't want subpoenas. So it's August. Normally, we see a lot of the president.

We actually haven't seen him since Tuesday. Do you think he has any health issues going on? Well, we wouldn't know or would we? Because we haven't seen him. And Caroline Leavitt doesn't answer health questions. except to say things like this president is the sharpest. and most energetic president there has ever been. But we did see him and choose the night he was at the Patriot. Games in Geneva in Ohio. This is part of the 250th anniversary celebrations of America.

It's slightly strange event. It kind of looked a bit like American Gladiators, and then a sort of mix up of all those game shows. where people have to climb and jump and maybe a bit of survivor. and, I don't know, Big Brother sort of obstacle course obstacle courses. Right? No Agent Boone race for any British viewers. That's what we do. Honestly, this is what we did at school. This was our sport at school. We had to put an egg on a spoon and run as fast as you could.

That's that's British, that's British, that's Patriot Games in Britain. Yes. Egg and spoon. But instead this was much flashier. This was an incredible spectacle. There were lights, there were fireworks. It was like a Charlie Kirk funeral. And at the end. How did it end? It ended, of course, with a Trump dance. Course it did. And I'm doing my best. That is very good. Well, I've seen it. Who has not seen it? I mean, you can't escape the Trump dance, right?

Trump with these two, two athletes from each state. Some people pass comment that these children were these young. people were surprisingly are. mono racial, all very white. They had competed but also been cast and had to do videos. expressing their interest in America to get this, these prizes. And I'll just say one of the things that MAGA. and the Republicans have for years railed against is, of course, participation. trophies and everybody having prizes.

And it was very noticeable. Everybody had a medal, everybody had a medal. Did the president have a medal? Because we know that he likes prize. You know, this is the first time I've seen him not accept the Nobel Peace Prize. That is true. But he's got one on as well anyway. Because he. Because he's so much. Yes. Venezuela. He's got the Venezuelan. He's got the Venezuelan oil. He's got the Venezuelan gold. He's got a Venezuelan peace prize. But he. Yeah. That was the last time we saw him was I'm not going to do that again. Why hasn't someone or perhaps they have.

I haven't found it. In fact, after this, I'm going to go and look on on Amazon. for a dancing doll that does the Trump Y.M.C.A.. Oh, there must be one right where you just press it and it does Y.M.C.A. there's no way this product doesn't exist, right? If this product doesn't exist, we are registering the IP right now. We are. And we're going to sell it with Daily Beast membership. So you can be a BBC tier. member to the Daily Beast podcast and get a free Trump dancing. And you can send it to your enemies. You don't have to keep it right. Or you could keep it and just play it.

When people call and try and sell you stuff on the phone. Scam texters. We have the answers. Scam texters yes, but I like the idea of Trump maxing. Trump maxing is brilliant, Laura. Well done. So the other thing that we should discuss is. Luigi Mangini. Luigi Mangini, the alleged assassin. He has been in court this week. We're recording this on Friday morning. He's due back in court today.

Do we have a sense of what we think will happen? Well, we are hearing that he is going to take a plea in federal court. Giani is charged both in state and in federal court, which is very unusual. He allegedly committed this murder on the streets of New York City. And normally that would be let's just remind people of the CEO, Brian Thompson, a father of two little children and unbelievable. video of an assassin coming up behind him and just shooting him in the back.

So there's there's obviously very little question. that this, that he did that he did this. The question here is really about what happens next. And unusually, this happened on the streets of New York City. And normally that should just be prosecuted as a murder. by the local authority, by the district attorney. And. Has been charged. in New York state and faces a trial in New York state. But in the era of Trump.

Trump was determined. to get in on the action, and he demanded that the federal charges. against Luigi Mangini and he demanded the death penalty. and death penalty is not available in New York State, but it is available federally, any state, anywhere. The federal government can try to bring a death penalty case. They tried this that collapsed because of procedural mistakes. by people who work for the then attorney general, Pam Bondi, and they were left with trying to prosecute him for an offense,

which obviously would mean life without parole. Now this gets more complicated, because you have to get a jury to convict somebody who denies, who denies that they committed a murder and had entered a not guilty plea. There is genuine was it not guilty on the grounds. of diminished responsibility or sort of mental? There hasn't been any clarity about how exactly this this would be. would be litigated inside the courtroom, whether they go for something mental.

But the I think the fundamental worry that people have raised about. this prosecution is you need 12 people to convict here. And Luigi is and has become this incredibly. popular figure because of people's discontent about the health care. And yeah, he's like a folk hero in the response to you. as a prosecutor, have to get 12 people and you have to find you, can't you. do you want to take the risk of one of those people saying,

do you know what this health care company and whatever health care company. is was really horrible about my mother, about my father, about myself. And you can try to screen that out. But who among us has not been impacted by the health system in some way? And there is a there's the thing, you know, they've got to be thinking as a possibility that you could get a. you could not get a not guilty verdict here because people one person. could sympathize enough to say, I'm not convicting.

It's called jury nullification. And before Trump, we hadn't seen this much during notification is really unusual. Jeanine Pirro it keeps happening to her. It keeps happening to Trump prosecutors. They go to a grand jury and the grand jury goes, no, what? No, I'm not doing this. This is absurd, right? It was a case in Chicago where they tried to prosecute anti ice protesters, and a grand juror was recorded as saying, this is a crock of shit. So there is a problem in prosecuting Luigi Manji only in a federal court.

that do you want to risk that you lose the case entirely. So taking a plea here walks free, he walks free. So? So then you'd have to contort yourself to find some other thing. to prosecute him on. And you know, it's a mess. So I think the thinking here is take a clean result, take a plea. You know that he is not facing a death penalty. because you already messed that up. Just walk away as quietly as you can. Leave it to the state and the state prosecution.

And we don't know what. the nature of this plea deal is, as I as we are sitting here talking about it. But the state prosecution does not appear engaged in this yet. He could then face life without parole in New York. But it's all because Trump inserted himself into this, that we are having this weird spectacle in the federal courtroom. and in the Southern District of New York and Manhattan. And of course, the biggest irony of all would be Trump inserting himself. into this, there being a federal case, there. being one juror who, as you say, decides, you know what?

My granny died because I didn't get or we didn't. get health insurance for people that she needed. Exactly. People feel incredible attachment, incredible emotion. And we've all had those letters that say we've been, you know, we're turning you down for your treatment. You can take this up on appeal and you're like, oh, this is going to be another six weeks of missed calls. The whole thing is a nightmare. Everybody feels frustrated dealing with their healthcare insurers, and that is not a reason to say it's okay to kill people.

No, of course. this is not that's we're not in any way sanctioning it or condoning it. But a jury is 12 people and a federal jury, they are basically anonymous. They, they they've been given an anonymity. So those people can, in the privacy. of the jury room, could well, one of them could just say, no, I'm not doing this. And prosecutors would not want to take that gamble if they don't have to. And it appears that we have a plea of some form that's going to allow them.

to avoid that gamble. When will we know the results of that? This is going on as we speak to Anna. So stay tuned to The Daily Beast. We will be updating this story and we're updating every story. We will reveal the latest frontrunner. as well in the race to be the new Caroline Levitt. And we of course have an eagle eye on departures from the West Wing. And where's Mitch? We're still got an eagle eye on where Mitch's two months on. We are still investigating. What is the name of Mitch McConnell's advisor, the one that earns.

quarter of $1 million, Terry Carmack, his chief of staff, 226,000 a year. Joanna, tell us. Release the video, man. Just release a video of your boss saying, well, thanks everybody. for their best wishes and telling us when he's likely to be back. It's a good question, Terry, if you're out there or Scott. Scott could tell us as well. Scott. You could tell us and who knows where you'll be in a week's time. Maybe you'll be pointing to people from the podium,

the white House press secretary, podium, the police of power. Well, Scott has got an interesting weekend ahead. I hope you do. I hope you're getting some time off. Are you taking any time off? He works 24 over seven, as does our news desk. We'll be back next Friday. I don't care about your weekend plans. I want you working 24 over seven. Well, it's out of the guillotine, so I don't know. It looks like I've won. We'll be back tomorrow with inside Trump's head. Michael Wolff is cooking up some interesting stuff. We'll be back next Friday to talk about the week that was.

Thank you. Joanna, if you have been thank you for joining us. Big thanks to our production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Pasa, Heather Passaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.