Why Trump's Crimes Require Punishment: Candidate | The Daily Beast Podcast

So, Graham, if you were to be elected to the Senate, would you be up for. using the law against Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump, or would you want to see the Senate opening investigations against them? Of course, if we regain power, there should not be a moment. where we all just shake hands and decide that, okay, well, that was that. That was a weird little moment. No. Absolutely not. The crimes that have been committed. must be investigated and punished. The power that has been abused, those that did it.

You need to be held accountable for doing so. Senate oversight is, I think, one of the most effective places to bring that about, which is one of the reasons I'm running for Senate. I'm John Nichols. This is the Daily Beast podcast. And we have for you an energizing conversation with an. insurgent candidate who wants to see Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump. not only brought to justice, but he wants to see them punished. He's also causing a frisson in the Democratic Party.

because he's standing to be the Democratic candidate in Maine. I'm talking about Graham Plattner, who is really challenging. the Democratic establishment in a way that they are finding hard to contain. We had a far ranging conversation. We delved into some of his past tweets, which he's embarrassed about. as he, well, should be. His ideas for universal health care, and the reason he believes.

that Donald Trump is extracting Venezuelan leadership, going after Greenland, sending ice into Minneapolis to escape. Of course, the inevitable. The Epstein, Epstein, Epstein of it all. I think you will enjoy this conversation. I want you to leave your comments about him. Is this where you see the future of the Democratic Party going? Let us know. But welcome to Graham Plattner,

who is as we recorded this in Norway, and he will tell you why. Graham Plattner, you are joining us from Norway. And at this point, the lighting in the Airbnb. where you're staying is making you look like a Rembrandt painting. I think Rembrandt, for me, it's very Scandi. Anyway, do you want to tell us what you're doing there? And I can say you're one of the few people I have interviewed where I probably know.

a little bit too much information about your sperm. That's fair. Yeah. I know that's strong. So we can thank my wife for that one. That you can even see in the video that that part. I was not expecting us to talk about. Graham has great sperm size. Can I say that on the internet? It turns out that. Graham is very healthy. And the infertility was something that was part of my body.

Well, we're here because we are, doing IVF in vitro fertilization. It is significantly cheaper in Norway than it is in the United States. We attempted to do it in the US. Frankly, it's kind of beyond our financial capacity. And a friend of a friend, I think, through my wife's. doctor, advised us to look into doing it abroad. And we, called a clinic in Norway, and they've been spectacular to work with,

and they cost about a fifth of the price. And so we actually scheduled this long before I, decided to run for Senate. So this was a this was a, set in stone schedule. thing that we told other campaign folks we were not going to move around. So we're here. Okay, well, good luck. Good luck with it. And I'm sure just by you being there, you are going to triple. the size of the Norwegian IVF industry. How is it how is it going to happen?

How is it going so far? It's good, it's good. We I mean, we got here on Sunday. We've done a couple, scans and and tests. and, it's we'll be here in total for about two weeks. So it's, Yeah, it there's a lot of downtime, for obvious reasons. We're kind of just waiting to know. when things happen, but, thus far, it's been it's been great. And, I mean, Norway is a spectacular country. So there are there are worse places to be killing some time. So I can't I can't complain.

What are Norwegians talking about when they hear you're from America. and that you're running for, the Democratic seat for Senate? Well, the second part, we don't talk about too much. because I don't want to bore people with my life. The first part, though, when they find out we're from the States, everybody brings up Donald Trump in Greenland. It seems to be the topic on everyone's minds. In fact, one of our. nurses informed us that her seven year old child is now afraid. that Donald Trump is going to come to Norway after he goes to Greenland.

So Donald Trump is officially become a nightmare for a seven year old Norwegian. child, which, is a fairly fairly fitting these days. Yeah. I mean, you can definitely tell. that the northern Europeans are concerned about the future of NATO. But also the possibility of a, a war of imperialism in the North. Atlantic, which, I think it's quite fair to be concerned about that. Yeah, well, the Europeans have already sent craft. across the North Atlantic, which feels like a.

an astonishing development in his, desire to take over and perhaps become acting president of Greenland. As he said, he is the acting president of Venezuela. What do you think about him saying that he wants to take over Greenland? I mean, Maine is not far from Greenland. It's utterly absurd. I mean, but it also just goes to show how far the wheels have come off this presidency.

I think it's pretty clear that after what happened in Venezuela, there's this feeling of total unaccountability. They get to do whatever they want, where they feel like they get to do. whatever they want. And there's I mean, it also just goes to show how, I don't want to be too, crass about it, but how utterly absurd this is all become. I mean, these are people who are they're living in an alternate reality. Sadly, when you have the kind of power that comes with the presidency. in the United States, whether you're living in an alternate reality or not,

it becomes everyone's reality, and we have to deal with it. But it is a, I mean, the the concept of the United States. going to war with Denmark and possibly the rest of Europe. in order to take Greenland is, patently absurd. And yet here we find ourselves having to discuss it seriously. So what made you, Graham? Because you're you're, throwing your hat in the ring. to be the Democratic candidate for Senate for Maine, where you would.

if you're successful. in getting the candidacy, be up against Susan Collins has caused. quite a lot of sturm und Drang in Maine, especially among the Democratic Party. And I want to come to that in a minute. But but what was it that made you decide you want to run for Senate? No, but I was asked, I mean, this. is not a thing that I've ever, aspired to. I mean, I've been living a very happy small life as an oyster farmer,

my home town, for the past eight years, I've really been focused. on, on local governance and and community organizing. However, I was approached, over the summer, by some folks affiliated with some labor unions in Maine with this idea, their concept, what Susan Collins is uniquely weak, which I agree with, and that the Democratic Party was likely going to choose a uniquely. bad candidate, to face off against her, which I also agreed with. And, and I think that is exactly in the end, what happened.

And I, you know, this was not a thing that I wanted to do, per se, but I've been waiting for years. to see the kind of politics that I think is necessary not just to win, but also to build a much better and brighter future for all Americans. I've been waiting to see it, and we get glimpses of it here and there, but I had not really seen in the state of Maine. And when this opportunity arose, it seemed like. I just had this chance to do.

something, that I thought was was necessary. And there's a moment when you can only wait for. you can only wait for what you want to see, to come along for so long. Eventually you kind of have to put some skin in the game. And, I had the opportunity to do so. And so here I find myself. Okay, so explain to us why you think Susan Collins is weak. She's been there for, what, 30 years? She's very familiar to American voters.

because she's often on the fence about all sorts of things. Why do you think she's particularly weak. now when the Republicans have the House and the Senate and the executive? So when it's. that, it's that being on the fence part. that I think really is what makes her weak. And for a long time she managed to maintain. this charade that she was a moderate Republican. Who would stand up to the, I would say more. insane elements of her party, that she would stand up to Donald Trump.

I mean, that was something that she really pushed, for. in the first couple of years of Trump's first presidency. You know, we had this idea that she was a pro-choice. Republican, who was going to represent the people of men, the people of Maine, very often. or not very often, the people of Maine, a very proud of the fact that we get. to have politicians that don't look like everybody's politicians. We're we have an independent streak in Maine.

The other senator from Maine, Angus King, right, is is an independent. Yeah, caucuses with the Democrats, but he's an independent. Mainers are always proud to tell you that they vote for both Republicans. and Democrats. I myself have been one of those Mainers to be very proud to say that. over the years. that's changed. One in her last in 2020, when she won, beat. Sara Gideon, by a fairly substantial margin. Joe Biden also won the state, which means there a lot of Republicans.

are there a lot of Democratic voters that voted for Susan Collins now in 2020? Well, Collins had confirmed Brett. Kavanaugh, Roe versus Wade had not yet been overturned. It has been overturned. Now, we now know that Susan Collins. is not a protector of women's rights. We know that Susan Collins is not someone who's standing up to the Trump. administration. It's become very clear that every time she, quote unquote, stands. up to her party is when they already have the votes,

she only votes against things when she knows they're going to pass. Everybody can tell that. Now. I have a lot of Republican friends who don't like Susan Collins, because they see her as a snake in the grass who doesn't believe in anything, which is true. And so it's that it's that. inability. to really stand by any form of principles. Then I think at this point, everyone sees it for what it is.

That was not the case six years ago, but it is now. And I think that she is also very much tied, whether she wants to be or not. She is tied to the economic situation we find ourselves in. because her party, as you just. mentioned, is in charge of all three branches of government at this point. But they've got the House, they've got the Senate, and they have the presidency, and yet the economy is failing. working people, and she is responsible for it. And and she's going to try to say she's not.

But I don't think Mainers buy that story anymore. Okay. So let's talk about the person you're up against. because the Democratic Party have put up the current governor, Janet Mills, who is 77, so similar age to Susan Collins. You are, by contrast, 41. So you're a new generation of hopeful Democratic, leaders. What is your argument against Governor Mills? She's been a good governor. She stood up to Trump.

Trump has picked on her. People clearly like her in Maine. People. do not want the same kinds of politics that has gotten us into this mess. And he wants it. The situation we find ourselves. in was built by establishment politicians. who have in many ways, in both parties, built the kind of political apparatus that we live in. That brought us to the point we're in now. You know, when you go, I go around the state of Maine,

I talk to a lot of people. People are, yes, disgusted by Donald Trump, sick, disgusted. with the Republican Party, also disgusted with the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has for a very long time not done. its duty of representing working people and working people lonely. It got in bed with the same corporate interests. that the Republican Party has been in bed with for a long time. The people that are going to fix that, the leaders, the kinds of politics. that is going to change, that are not going to come.

from the political establishment. This is a playbook we have tried over and over. and over again, and it fails us over and over and over again. The governor is very much part of the political establishment. She was chosen. She was pressured by people in Washington, DC, by the DCC, to run. I mean, this was the whole point. She is Washington's chosen candidate. That is not what people want now. And you don't want it because it doesn't work.

We've all seen it not work. That's why we find ourselves in the position that we're currently in. And I just think in this moment, it's. we are we need to reengage with a politics. that is built around. being representative of working people and representing working people, and that is not the kind of politics that we've seen coming out of the. Democratic political establishment for the past 30 odd years,

and that's very much what my run here is. I don't come from establishment politics, as all of my detractors. left to point out. I don't think it's a bad thing. People who come from that world, who are experienced in that world, they're the ones that got us into this mess. They're not going to be the ones that are going to get us out of it. So. So, Graham, do you hear anything from your constituents about, the president's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? And what are your thoughts on his relationship with him? Well, it seems very clear he had a very close relationship with him.

It's very obvious that the reason. we are not reading the full Epstein files is likely because of that. And to protect other wealthy, powerful people. But it seems at this point, there's there's no question. that's why we're not getting to. look into the documents, because the president's and, it is an issue that. this is the of all the things. that people I know who supported Donald Trump are angry about. This is the one. This was like the straw that broke the camel's back.

They were told for years. that it was the Epstein files were going to be released, and that in that it was going to target all the Democrats and all these people. And instead it's turned out that it's very likely Donald Trump himself. And that's why they refused to release the doc. People feel betrayed and they should. I mean, they were lied to. They were sold this whole bill of goods. I mean, the entire Trump apparatus relied heavily on the Epstein story for so long.

Now that they have the power to do it, they're stonewalling it. And let's be very clear, one of the reasons why we. we are seeing both ice in Minneapolis and one of the reasons. why I think the executive started the war in Venezuela. And so we stopped talking about the Epstein files, because they don't want us to be wondering why right now, the the administration, the DOJ are breaking the law. in not releasing the files as they have been directed to by Congress.

They're not doing that because they know what sent them. They don't want us to read it, and they're going to hope that they can. pull everyone's attention away by, bringing about more chaos and more insanity. Sadly, in. some ways, we have to deal with the fact that we invaded Venezuela. We're talking about invading Greenland, and that we have Ice agents killing American citizens on American streets. Those are things that we have to talk about. But it's also important to remember what the reasons this is happening.

is to take everyone's eye off the Epstein ball. Which is it's an insane thing to say, but I think. at this point it's fairly clear that's exactly where we find ourselves. Okay, so Donald Trump also doesn't come from the classic. Republican politician establishment. He is also an outsider candidate. How do you assess his success and what do you think? Do you think he has mental health issues? Oh, I mean, I think the man is a clear narcissist.

So, yes. But his success, I'll say. this like I live in a small town, a small rural town. A lot of my friends voted for Donald Trump three times. I don't agree with them. I know why they did it, though. They did it because they're sick and tired of politics as usual. They're angry. They're angry at a system that they feel does not represent them, and the right to feel that way because it doesn't represent them. You know, Donald Trump's political success, I think, comes from one very specific thing.

He came along and told people that the one thing they knew was. true was true, and that was that they were being screwed. It gave them all the wrong people to blame. He's not pointing the anger in the right direction, but he at least acknowledged the thing that everyone knows is true. When I go around the state of Maine, Republicans, independents, Democrats, when you talk to everyone, you ask a single working person. in the state of Maine, do you live in a political system.

that you think has your best interests at heart? Nobody says yes to that. Graham. Can I can I can I push back on one thing because people are living longer? People, have access. to all sorts of things that they never had before. Is this a relative thing that people feel less well off than actually they are? I would urge me to go around. the state of Maine, where the hospitals are literally closing in rural Maine. But but one reason that one.

No, but, Graham, it is difficult for you to it's difficult. for a person to think that things are getting better. when we are losing birthing units in eastern Maine, we're down to two. When I was born, there were six. Like, there is absolutely no way that I that you can tell people. living in my part of Maine that things are getting better. They're not. We are seeing fewer hospitals. We're seeing our education system collapsing.

We're watching our wages remain stagnant while the cost of goods and services. that all of us rely on just to survive continue to go through the roof. So it's a I don't think it is relative. Things are not getting better out here for regular people. But okay, so let me push back one more time on something specific, which is hospitals closing because medical treatments have changed. when I had an appendicitis 40 years ago, it was a week stay in hospital. where my assistant had one, a month ago she was in and out the same day.

We don't need hospitals in quite the same way. Medical treatments have completely transformed. They're going to transform more with I. I, I hate to say this. If you get a drive. for three hours for that treatment, it doesn't matter how long it takes. Okay? That's where it is. Where I live. So, like, I'm, Yeah. I'm sorry, I just that I can't. Yes, medical treatments change, but.

geographical access to medical care that that doesn't change. Well, but it's not just going to be there's all sorts of this telehealth now. I mean, you can have doctors operating in the States on people in Africa. Robo doctors are going to change everything. Medicine itself is on the cusp of enormous changes. When I see that existing in eastern Maine, I'll believe that it's changing things. that doesn't exist where I am. I've never none of my friends have been going in for for robo surgeries.

Okay, so it's a but I will say, I do know people. who now have to drive two and a half to three hours to get medical care. That which didn't used to be the case. We used to have we used to have medical facilities. in these parts of rural Maine that we no longer have now. And like giving birth, giving birth still requires a place to give birth. And like I said, where I live, we have two birthing centers, both of which are now owned by the exact same corporate entity. When I was a kid, when I was born, we had six,

all of which were independently owned. So it is very difficult. for me to think that things are getting better. where I live, when they demonstrably are not. Okay. So what are you going to do about it if you get if you get the Democratic. selection and you get to Washington, what are your priorities for Maine. and what are your priorities for national Democratic politics?

Universal health care. So I, I get universal health care. I'm a disabled veteran. I get my health care through the VA. The VA in Maine is very good. And I don't think about co-pays. I don't think about, premiums. I don't think about dealing with insurance companies. When something bothers me, I go to the hospital, I call my doctor, I get it checked out. That's what allowed me to start the business. They gave me the freedom to not have to go find a job that would give me. health insurance, and it gave me the time to sink energy into learning a skill.

And I got to become an oyster farmer. And I make my living on the sea and it's a living I love very much. That is the kind of foundational support. that every single American deserves, and we can pay for it. How do you how do you propose to pay for it? But we already do pay for it. We have the most expensive health care on earth. with some of the true health outcomes. We just have a wildly inefficient system that's not built around providing care. It's built around extracting profit.

Profit. in a health care system is inherently inefficient. They're dollars that are going not towards paying nurses. or doctors or support staff, or going towards equipment or surgeries. They're dollars that are going towards. some CEO or shareholder getting a third yacht. That's not an effective use of funds in a health care system. That's what we have now. And we need to reallocate those resources.

We need a single payer universal health care system, Medicare for all. It's a bill that already exists, and that is what we need to push for. I firmly believe that if you provide that kind of baseline support, that frees up Mainers and Americans in general. to take risks in starting businesses, it frees up small businesses and medium. sized businesses from having to deal with health insurance companies. Because right now, if you're a small business or medium sized business, our,

you spend a lot of time dealing with your employees health care plans. We should take that. That shouldn't be. That shouldn't be the responsibility of a small business. That would free up a lot of energy and money. to exist in a real economy that would improve our communities. I think for me, that is pretty foundational to the future. that we have to build. I would love to see significantly more than just a universal health care system. when it comes to how we support ourselves and how we really create resources. in our society.

But I think at this moment, knowing how much health care impacts. all of my community members, knowing how much the money. associated with health care impacts all of my community members. That, to me, is fundamentally one of the first things we have to change. Okay, well, I think you'll have a lot of listeners and viewers agreeing with you on that. So, so let's talk about one of the reasons why you've become. a sort of lightning rod. for the Democratic Party, not only because you represent a new generation,

but also because once you've thrown your hat in the ring, a ton of, well, not a ton, but a series of tweets. and comments on Reddit surfaced, some of which are not very flattering. And it's hard to reconcile the person I'm talking to. now with the person that tweeted or re-edited. If re-edited is a word, put out some of those, put out some of those comments. So in answer to a specific thread six years ago, which was titled.

white people aren't as racist or as stupid as Trump thinks. You wrote living in white rural America, I'm afraid to tell you they actually are. And Susan Collins has been using that, against you. You also said, I think 13 years ago in a thread, why don't black people tip? And then you, when you were talking about. the police, you referred to the police as all police as bastards.

What what was going on in your life. that you felt like commenting those things? Well, I think we do have to put all these things in the context. The tipping question was in a thread in which it was asked if there's a question. you could ask people of another race that you don't have the ability to do. So usually, what's the question you would ask? It was a question that I was wondering about. And, you know, I don't want to this is a I mean, there are studies from M.I.T.

on this. Nobody calls nobody calls the people that authored those studies racist. So, I think it was mere curiosity at that point in my life. You were a barman at the time, right? Yeah. Just started bartending. Okay. So is this something you'd personally noticed? Did you read the comment? Yeah, that's exactly what the comment was. But that seems an odd thing to say. Why don't black people tip know? It was a curiosity that I had and then I talked to some friends of mine, and actually somebody in that thread answered the question quite succinctly,

which mirrors, by the way, all the studies and discussions around this. I feel like this one's definitely gets blown up, which is like out of proportion, to be frank. The but, yeah, it was a curiosity that I had. I asked the question because I was curious. Someone answered it and, that was that I moved on with my life. Well, you thought you thought you've moved on with your life. Then it came back to it. Came back to haunt you. I will say this.

I'm 41 years old. I grew up on the internet. I think a lot of people my age. who have not been planning to run for office their entire lives, are well aware that at earlier moments in their life. they said some things on the internet they're not proud of, and if somebody went. and had the resources and the money to dig through their entire background, things would be found that people aren't proud of. I just happened to be one of the first people to have to do this. If we litigate everyone's internet comments.

as part of political campaigns going forward, we're not going to have much of a politics left. We're just going to do this forever. Now, I think if you have like a long history of, say, being a racist or being a homophobe or being a hateful person, and it just continues for many, many years, I would say that's probably indicative of the kind of person someone is. I think if you have to go back 13 years to find 1 or 2 comments.

to take out of context, it's probably not indicative of who someone is, especially. if when you read the rest of my comments, you'll find me rabidly. advocating against racism and homophobia against fascism, and on behalf of people who I view as, as being, I would say, exploited and oppressed by the larger system within. Okay, so let me ask you just, just to wrap this up, finally, what did you mean when you said, you're afraid to say that actually,

white people are as racist and as stupid as Trump thinks. Some white people are. I mean, I, I don't know, I, I've, I've met them. I've, I also am a white guy who lives in rural Maine. So, you know, I don't think I'm stupid and racist. The vast majority of my neighbors are not stupid and racist. There are some people in white rural America who are that.

I don't think that's a very, What's the word? The wild statement to make. I think a lot of us can agree that they do exist out there. You know, it's kind of funny if you go through my comments. and you don't just cherry pick them, you will find me advocating. tirelessly, saying that the people in my part of Maine are not stupid and racist, that a lot of people often would say that rural white Americans. are all stupid to racist. And you would find me in the comments saying that that is not remotely true.

In that one comment, I said that people are, but I was saying it in the context that some people are, it's. very clear that I don't think that everyone in white. rural America is stupid and racist, because that would include myself. One of the reasons or one of the arguments why the Democrats last, the one of the reasons why people say the Democrats lost. the last election is because they have this purity test.

and this kind of litmus test for what you are allowed to say. Is that something that you've heard when you've been in Maine. and these past comments of yours have surfaced? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's when most people bring up, I mean, most, most Democrats, I run it, most voters I run into in Maine, they don't care. They know very well that people say dumb stuff, that people change over the years. I mean, it's a that's the thing that most normal human beings understand occurs.

And when people a lot of voters in Maine. saw that stuff get taken by the media and blown into this huge scandal, and most people were like, yeah, there it is. This is like this. is that absurd litmus test where we're just going to go through someone's past, find 1 or 2 things, and then try to get all, you know, to clutch our. pearls around it and act super offended. You know, it's. I just put it this way.

The people that drug, that stuff up in my past, many of them are the people that also sent me to fight in Iraq. And it was really hard for me to take seriously that. that, like, comments I made 13 years ago. are some kind of unforgivable sin. Well, we have people in our government now that voted. to make me go fight in a in an illegal foreign war. One of those seems really bad. One of those seems like something that happens to people in their lives.

And so it is. I think a lot of voters in Maine agree with me and see it for what it is. We had Congressman Seth Moulton on the podcast. a couple of weeks ago, and he was talking about. the claustrophobia, I think is the best word. of the Democratic Party establishment and how you have to wait your turn. And are you getting are you getting well?

Who is supporting you in the Democratic Party. as you go up against Governor Mills, who is, as we've mentioned, is in her late. 70s, I'm getting a lot of support from individual lawmakers, getting support from a number of excellent senators. In fact, luckily for me, it's the senators I respected like the most. So who would they be? Martin Heinrich, Elizabeth Warren, and, Jeff Merkley, Chris Murphy, these are people who I've had conversations with. who have very much expressed interest in what we're doing up here.

Bernie Sanders, not a Democrat, but, Bernie has been. a hardcore hardcore supporter from the beginning, and we remain close. Not much support from the. democratic system, which, I mean, but that doesn't surprise me in the slightest. It's, I was not their chosen candidate. You know, we were told that we didn't have permission. to do this because it wasn't our turn, yada yada, yada. We ignored it because that's I mean, I don't think that's. No, I don't think that's how most Democrats want their politics.

to be, that you need to be part of some system for a long time before. you're allowed permission to enter into the political space. Like if you're a Democrat in the state of Maine, and you get the resources together to run in a Democratic primary, that should be up to the Democratic voters of Maine, not up to Democrats in Washington, DC to pick and choose. Congressman. Congressman Moulton also said that he thought. there was a great void of Democratic leadership right now.

What what's your impression as you start, you know, embracing the Democratic Party? Well, for the record, I'm I'm not embracing the Democratic Party. I think the Democratic Party needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. I and and my, my reasoning for. that is that, look around. like the Democratic Party has very little power. The Democratic Party is seems incapable of using what power it does have.

I think the Democratic Party, Democrats themselves have nothing. I mean, the approval ratings of the party by Democrats are insanely low. People are not happy with the party, and I think they're not happy with it, because the party finds itself in a place that you. it's fundamentally impossible to be in. You cannot represent the interests of working people while also representing.

the interests of people who are exploiting working people. But for the past 30 years, 40 years, the Democratic Party in the United States. has formed an alliance with some of the same corporate interests. that the Republican Party is aligned with. This is why people say things like it doesn't matter if they vote or not, because both parties are the same. Now, I don't think both parties are the same, but there is an element. in both parties that absolutely represents the interests of their highest donors, which are not working people, they're not regular folks.

The Democratic Party needs to return to being the party of working people, the party of labor unions, the party of community organizations. It cannot do that and remain the party. of supporting corporate power, of supporting billionaires who want to stay billionaires. You cannot do both of these things. It's impossible. And I think that's why the party finds itself in such a confused place now, because it's trying to thread this needle, but it's a needle.

that cannot be threaded. The only way for us to return to a Democratic party that represents. working people is to rebuild it with working people from the ground up, and that's what we're engaged in. So where does that leave a sort of potential presidential. candidate for 2028, like, JB Pritzker? And what do you think of Gavin Newsom, who's had two year, two terms as California governor and. is so far at least cutting through the noise.

with his social media campaign against Donald Trump? Yeah, I mean, I would say it's I'm trying to get through a primary. I will we'll talk about presidential elections. once we get past the primary. But as a leader, that is potential leaders. of the party that you're running for, how do they strike you? Yeah, yeah, I think that they. I would very much like to see more like a Chris Van Hollen.

or or we have Bernie, and Elizabeth Warren. Elizabeth Warren gave a wonderful speech the other night. at the National Press Club, which I recommend everybody listen to, in which she outlined the future of the kind of party I want to see. I think that Governor Newsom and Governor Pritzker are both very good governors. I like much of what they say. I would like to see some, I would say probably. a deeper dedication to big structural change,

larger social projects in line with the kind of Democratic Party. I want to see, which is more like the New Deal Democratic Party than anything else. But it's the personalities for me. Don't do it. It's, it's it's much more about what are we talking about? What's the kind of politics in the kind of future we're talking about building? Okay, so you mentioned that Bernie Sanders was supporting you. He's an independent. Obviously, from Vermont. Why why aren't you running as an independent?

Fundamentally, because I'm a Democrat. Well, you do you sound you don't sound like a dem. Oh, you sound so frustrated with the Democratic Party. I'm wondering why you're just not running as an independent. What you could easily have as much influence as Bernie. Sanders or Angus King. One. If I ran as an independent, we would not be having this conversation. I would just be some random guy. from Maine who decided to run for Senate, this independent. It would come and go. It wouldn't be that interesting.

I have a theory of power and a theory of change, in which you have. to utilize the structures that exist in the most effective way that you can, the Democratic Party, whether we like it or not, we live in a two party system. And if we are going to work within that system to gain. power again, I think the Democratic Party is the most effective way to do it. I've also been a registered Democrat, pretty much my entire. adult life, besides a couple of years where I unroll out of disgust. I don't talk to any Democratic voters who think that the Democratic Party.

should be a party that supports, say, illegal wars. sending America's, children off to fight. It works like I did in Iraq. You know, we have a lot of people in the party who supported the war. in Iraq, and the war in Afghanistan, both of which I fought him. And I don't find a lot of. Democratic voters who like that about their party. I don't meet a lot of Democratic voters who think that giving tax breaks. to fossil fuel companies, is a good idea.

This is a the Democratic Party. If it if it was run by the people in it, it would be the party of labor unions. It would be the party of community organizations. They would be the party of talking about. the future like FDR used to talk about the future. But my frustrations with the. with the kind of the higher echelons of the party, that doesn't preclude me from wanting it to be the party.

It should be. I think it just means that I. I want to work hard to get us back to a Democratic party. that represents working people, and that should be its focus. Okay, so you mentioned that you were in Iraq and Afghanistan. You're a marine. Pete Hegseth is going. after Mark Kelly and five other Democrats for putting out two statements. reminding people in the military that they are under no obligation.

to carry out and that they shouldn't carry out illegal orders. Mark. Pete Hegseth singled out Mark Kelly. in particular, saying that he's looking at revising his retirement. and also seeing if he can, reduce his, status from captain. And Mark Kelly is now suing Pete Hegseth. What do you think when you're when you're looking at that? I mean, it's utterly disgusting. One what Senator. Kelly and those other legislators said.

was just reiterating the same kind of training that I got, I think almost monthly when I was in the service, reminding you. that you are under no obligation to follow illegal orders. like we used to have the the military lawyers, the Jags come down. and remind us of that on a regular occasion. So the the idea that saying it as a legislator. is somehow undermining good order and discipline is utterly absurd.

Pete Hegseth is a joke. The deeply insecure man who is now running around with an immense amount of power. That's what we're watching here. And he's using that power to target somebody who he feels made him angry. That's absurd. Senator Kelly is retired. He was a fighter pilot and an astronaut. This is this is someone who served their country with distinction. and has earned the retirement benefits that they have. The idea of calling him back to active duty.

simply to reduce him and rank and take away his pension. That's just a weaponization of of the system itself. That is not based on legality. It's not based on any kind of like real rules. This is just an abuse of power. But I mean, at this point, can we be surprised? I mean, that's what the Trump administration has turned into. I mean, what recently has happened with. the chairman of the fed is the exact same thing. The DOJ is now opening up investigations into Jerome Powell.

over something about building a historic building. I forget the word, but what? Well, not. Yeah, not reducing interest rates fast enough. And they've gone after him for renovating the one of the fed buildings. The president wants to reduce interest rates himself. That's it. He wants to be in charge. He doesn't like the fact that he has to go through somebody. And he's just using the power. of the office to target people who get in his way.

Eggs. That's doing the exact same thing with none other Kelly. So I mean it just to me, this is this is all absurd. It's illegal. It's unconstitutional. This kind of behavior, this is abusing. power in its most obvious form. But we we can't, we can't take it seriously. I mean, we have to take it seriously because it's happening. But I don't think we should give it the seriousness of, like, thinking. this is a real thing.

These are just people who are abusing their power. They have power. They are using it. That's it. There's no basis in legality. So, Graham, if you were to be elected to the Senate, and the Democrats were to retake the Senate, which looks slightly. like less likely at the moment than if they were to retake the House. But let's play a hypothetical. Would you be up for, using the law against Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump?

Would you want to see the Senate opening investigations against them? Of course, they've abused their power. I mean, like, it's nobody's nobody should be above the law. We need to hold people accountable. I mean, we can't just move on from this moment. If we regain power, there should not be a moment. where we all just shake hands, decide that, okay, well, that was that. That was a weird little moment. No. Absolutely not. The crimes that have been committed. must be investigated and punished.

The power that has been abused, though, is that. did it need to be held accountable for doing so? It's not a yeah. For me, it's a it. This should not really be a question. I think that we should absolutely hold those who have broken the law, and who are abusing their power accountable for for doing just that. Okay. So the Senate is a good place to do that. Senate investigate like open Senate oversight is, I think, one of the most effective places to to bring that about,

which is one of the reasons I'm running for Senate. Okay. So what is your impression of what's happening in Minneapolis right now? Ice obviously got involved in the shooting of Renee. Good. You saw the video. Donald Trump has doubled down. and sent in a thousand more Ice agents. How do you see that? And how do you think about it? As a potential lawmaker?

And one, this is very much of exactly what I was just talking about. This is an abuse of power. This is weaponizing power against political opponents. and trying to build power outside. of the usual legal structures. Ice right now is being used essentially. as a paramilitary force on behalf of the presidency.

They went to Minneapolis because of the fallout from YouTube. videos made by conservative YouTube influencer. This is this is the president and those around him. using Ice as a political tool. that's they're trying to scare communities. They're trying to cow political opponents. And I mean, that's that's what we are witnessing when you do that,

when you send paramilitary units into American cities. with the intent of sowing chaos, chaos is what you will get. And that's what we are seeing here at this. Much like much like the investigations. that need to happen into the abuses of power around Jerome Powell. and Mark Kelly as we move forward, we also need to have investigations. and hopefully punishment for the people that brought about the murder of Renee.

Good. So one of the issues that saw. Donald Trump win the 2024 election. as comprehensively as the Republicans did, was the border issue. People clearly don't. think that the Democrats. were monitoring the border or controlling the border effectively. Where do you think people are now when you talk to them? I mean, this was very much an issue on people's minds whether or not.

Donald Trump demonized immigrants. And the promise was that he was going. to deport the worst of the worst. But now we have Ice patrolling Minneapolis, although it's, and obviously it's been, we've we've all seen the videos, these hideous videos of most people taking people out of their cars. But but this was something. that was voted for. I don't think people voted.

for ice ripping American citizens out of their cars. and murdering American citizens for the that's not bored. I'm watching videos of Customs and Border Protection in Minneapolis. Last I checked, Minneapolis is not a border city. This is this is not order. This is not border protection. This is not protecting Americans. like this is not bringing about a better immigration system.

So when any of this. So when you talk to your friends in Maine who voted for Donald Trump, what's their assessment of him now? Like many of the people I know that voted for him are disgusted. I mean, a lot of them voted for him primarily around, the costs. They thought that he was going to bring down. the costs of daily life. and instead the tariffs and the tariff uncertainty has actually seen.

many of those costs go up, but mean not just this is an example. I have a number of friends who are contractors. They they build houses. They thought that Donald Trump was going to bring down their costs, and. they were going to make a lot more money. Their costs have skyrocketed, and they're being told. by their suppliers that it's directly related to tariff uncertainty. that makes them angry. The thing that they thought they were getting, they're getting the opposite of it, and they are not happy about it. Also, what we are seeing was ice.

This is not what people voted for. When people voted for a stronger border, they did not vote for paramilitaries. roaming American communities and shooting American citizens. That is not what people voted for. And well, obviously there are likely some who are cheerleading this. Many of the people I know. that even voted for Donald Trump on the immigration issue. They see what is happening now as a travesty.

and they are not happy about it. And I think that come November, the Republican Party is going to learn. that this was not the avenue the American people wanted them to go down. Okay. So I have a final question for you. You're an oysterman. You're a fisherman. You're a diver. What is the best way to eat oysters? Which I have to confess. I am allergic to, very sadly, because I think they are delicious. But if you're advising. someone who hasn't had an oyster before, what is the best way to try one?

Raw and on the half shell? The only way. If you need a little squeeze of lemon or a little bit of minion, that by all means cocktail sauce is heresy. But, But if the first time you're trying when especially in the northeast, where we have very good oysters, run on the half shell, it's the is the best way to do it. Make sure you chew them. That's where the flavor is. So not the swallow. Not the swallow? No, I mean. oysters, not New England.

That's a whole different ballgame. But where I'm from, you chew them because they taste good. Best of luck in in Norway. Will you keep us posted as to whether or not the treatment works? Yeah. Yeah, we definitely will. And thank you. So much for having me on. I really appreciate it. Yeah. No, it's interesting to talk to you and, good luck. And as you pointed out, good, though. Governor Mills, is she would be the oldest. appointee to the Senate at the age of 78. Were were two.

Were she to win? Yeah, it's a. In an era where. after what we just went through with the Biden with the the Biden. Harris kind of disaster, it it is fascinating to me. that this is the direction the party really wants to go in. It, you know, you know, Seth Moulton, I think was very correct when he. if he when he talked about the what did he say the not isolation but. but the sort of claustrophobia and the grip that the.

the establishment has in the Democratic Party. It really does seem like. there is just a group of folks who've been there for so long. They really just can't envision anything else. besides the people they know and the kind of politics they know. And it and it's clearly not working. But they don't really seem to understand anything else to do. And I think that's, that's why we find ourselves in this, in this place. It's also what the answers are not going to come from that group. So.

All right, well, good luck and good luck in Norway and keep us posted. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. A completely new voice for the Democratic Party. And of course, he's antagonizing the Democratic establishment. Chuck Schumer, the minority leader of the Senate, is supporting Governor Mills. Bernie Sanders has thrown his weight behind. And Plattner, as has Elizabeth Warren.

Maine may not be typical of the rest of the states, but it's a really interesting fight for the heart and the soul on the minds. of the Democratic Party. If you have been. Thank you for joining us. Let us know what you think on YouTube. Don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast. We are independent media and so we really rely on your support. and we love hearing from you. We love hearing your opinions, your thoughts, and who you would like to hear from. Joanna. Hi, I have to tell you about something that we're obsessed with.

I'm Kevin Fallon and I met Will Stein and we are hosting obsessed, the podcast. about all the TV shows, movies and entertainment newsmakers that we're all obsessed with. So make sure you subscribe to us on YouTube at the YouTube channel. Make sure you follow us wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for obsessed the podcast and we will see you there! Beast! Big thanks to our special beast tier of members. Here they are. If at Johnson, methinks Betsy O'Farrell, Mills and Linz.

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