Why Trump's Blatant Grift Will Cost Him Dearly | The Daily Beast Podcast

Every single day. There's another story out there about the grip. They just say, hold on. You're the person in office. You have more. You now finally have the supreme wealth. You always said you did. A specific group of business people are wealthier beyond belief. And I'm not what hurt Joe Biden. What hurt Kamala Harris is that people were still struggling economically. And they look and see and they say, who's in the white House? And they blame that person. What's unique about Donald Trump is the reason many of these people. are struggling economically is a direct result of his policies.

I'm trying to Kohl's. This is the Daily Beast podcast, and we have a fantastic guest for you today. And we range through the economy, the fed, sex with hair extensions, sex with eyelash extensions, and her new television show, which is about money, power and politics. I'm talking, of course, about Stephanie Ruhle, the Miss Now presenter. She's been hosting The 11th Hour, but on Monday she gets her own.

new two hour show where she's going to be talking about, well, money, politics, power, all of it, all of it. But she has particular opinions about Donald Trump's economy, about Scott Besant and Howard, and how they've become so sycophantic. And how did that happen? And is the same thing going to happen to the new fed chairman, Kevin Walsh? No time to waste. Press your subscription button. Now. Don't forget we are independent media. We appreciate and we need your support.

Stephanie Ruhle let's get into it. Stephanie Ruhle We've already begun our conversation. Today. We are going to cover the state of the economy, the impact of the war. But just as interestingly, what young women are doing beauty wise, does it make them sexier? And Stephanie wants to know, how do you have sex with a weird hair weave? And when do you take the eyelashes and Spanx and Spanx? Okay, so we're going to get to that. That's the important stuff. Also with we're going to talk about the fed. But first, Stephanie, you're a brilliant observer of the economy.

Trump's war in Iran seems to have had much more of an impact. than he would have expected, not least because the Iranians have closed. the Strait of Hormuz, something that any basic wargaming would have shown you was about to happen. What is the impact on the American economy first? And then let's talk about the global economy, and then let's talk about the market, because we have always said.

the market and the economy are not the same thing. But now more than ever, and as soon as he launched into this, every big investor I spoke to was like, this isn't going to last more than five days. And I mean big, sophisticated investors. And the funny thing is, they continue to buy his line the whole time, right? Every time you talk to someone, they're basically like, I just talked to him, or I just talked to Howard, or I just talked to Scott Besson. They're wrapping this thing up. Trump very clearly wants to wrap this up. Of course, he does this to do it for ever.

He jumped into this ignoring intelligence, which is why our NATO allies said, we're not jumping in with you. You didn't tell us you ignored intelligence. He thought this could be another victory like Venezuela was, right? I saw the president the day the state of the Union. I had lunch at the white House. And the president has sort of just come off. It was right around the time time of Venezuela. And he was sort of, you know, he loves talking about the strength of the military. and the beautiful soldiers and their might. And that was joyful for him. Right.

You had people in Venezuela partying, you know, celebrating in the streets here, I mean, all over the world. He wanted to have that again. And you're actually watching him now try to leapfrog over. Iran and talk about, well, guess what, Cuba is right around the corner. You hear it from Marco Rubio for Iran. What a great phrase. So talk to me about the impact of it, because this is not a war. that's being measured in body bags. It's being measured in the price at the pump. And look at the price of the pump, not just here, but around the world,

like we're actually seeing jet fuel shortages around the world. We see gas prices have gone down a little, but they're still very high. Food prices are high. Talk to the American farmer. Talk to the American farmer. who needs diesel, which is high, who needs fertilizer, which is high. And the president, you know, he wants to talk like, well, affordability is an old fashioned term. It's not important. This is really hurting the president. I would argue that economically or even across the board before Iran, I think the president was really happy.

I think he existed very much in a gilded cage at the white House. and at Mar-A-Lago, surrounded by an administration who truly, you know, bows at his altar and surrounded by business people. who are making an extraordinary amount of money, whether on their own or they've got government contracts now. But that's who's rolling at Mar-A-Lago this term. But step away from that and go to the American people. Go to Trump's actual voters. Right. Go, go to my mother. Right.

Who voted for Donald Trump, who she believes Donald Trump. when he says there's a caravan of criminals coming from South America. and they're going to attack your grandchildren and steal your job, she's going to believe that because she doesn't see it. But you cannot lie to the American people or any people about our lived experience. And we know exactly. my mother knows exactly how much her groceries cost, how much her gas costs. And we saw it in these primaries last week. And so you're watching all of these Republicans just sort of.

on pins and needles. How many times have we heard from this white House? Trump's going to go on an economic tour. He can't he doesn't have a message. Just three days ago, when he sat down. with Kristen Welker, when he talks about the economy, he immediately turns to the market. Right. And the market is doing extraordinarily well. Corporate profits are super strong. But even if you look under that hood, it's the massive tech companies. It's the Magnificent Seven. If you talk to lots of fortune. 500 companies that are not in the tech space, where they. where where they're not booming because of AI.

or they are impacted by the tariffs or mass deportations. Many of those companies are suffering. And if we see any sort of puncturing, which I don't necessarily think we will. in the AI superpowers, then it's going to be devastating. But also, only 50% of the American population are in the market. So that's fine for rich people or people. who feel that they're taken care of and they have financial security. But we know that the other half don't have even $500 in case of emergency.

And we haven't even talked about health care. Right at the end of last year, right before we spent billions and billions and billions on this war, Republicans argument was we do not want to spend a dime. continuing expand on Obamacare subsidies. It's time for them to expire. So we there's so much news out there, we don't even talk about the fact. that American people. have seen their health care premiums spike and they are struggling. And what's interesting is we always we had coming out of Covid, right?

We had a K shaped economy. The rich were getting richer and the poor were getting poorer. Johanna, this has been supercharged. And I don't just mean the rich. Think about the richest of the rich are so unimaginably wealthy now. We now have the American oligarchs. Right now. we're about to get our first trillionaire with the space IPO and Elon Musk. And it's not just Elon with with the space IPO. We're going to have a whole a whole slate of new billionaires.

And while one might say, you know, well, you know, I'm mad that they're so rich, but what does that have to do with my life? Here's where it does, because now that investor class. is donating so much money to these campaigns, right? We're 16 years out from Citizens United where you can now have an unlimited amount. of corporate dollars. in political campaigns, and you've got the wealthiest of the wealthy people. Now that we live in a Donald Trump world who understand that. politicians are transactional, Donald Trump is completely transactional.

And so, you know, when you. when when John Cornyn lost his primary in Texas, people said, well, Ken Paxton is not going to be as good at raising money. Yes he is. He absolutely is. Right. When Thomas Massie lost his primary in Kentucky. It was the most expensive primary we've seen. The majority of people writing. those big checks have never set a big toe in the state of Kentucky. But now that we have created these massive American oligarchs. who have more power and influence than we have ever seen business.

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that have a stranglehold on billionaires, right? I do not think it will. I don't think the richest are just going to vote Republican. I don't at all. I mean, lots of people actually end up giving money to both, right, just to make sure that they're covered. But I mean, at the end of the day, I would say most business people. and I'm not talking about sort of the Peter Thiel, Elon Musk. universe of guys sitting in the corner saying, I'd like to run the world, not them. Right?

I mean, your run of the mill fortune 500. CEO is basically saying, I don't want to care about politics. I want to get my, you know, I want to make sure. my customers show up, my shareholders happy, and my employees don't quit. And most CEOs really want to us to follow the rule of law. And three separate but equal equal branches of government. They would not choose a completely transactional president because also, Joanna, there's a lot of CEOs that don't actually have the money or the leverage.

to roll up to the white House and say, would you like gold bars and an airplane? Right. There's a lot. How can I donate a special wings? It's easy for me to say, well, those CEOs can just get hired on the phone. They can, but lots of them don't have the money. to fork over some giant check for X, Y, or Z. So no, I do not think that the president has, you know, the the wealthy class on lock, however, and I'm not defending it or insulting it. They eat the rich sentiment, which I don't think is is unique to Democrats.

I think there are lots of Americans who have no political affiliation, who are furious about their job prospects, their inability to buy a home, their cost of living. They are angry. And it's funny because I was at a conference not long ago. in California and with all big investors, and they were panicked about this idea. of democratic socialism. And, and, and I'm like, I don't think mom, Dani is the one leading this. I think you guys are causing the eat the rich sentiment,

your ability to skirt paying taxes legally, right, your ability. to have an app on your phone so you move out of the state of California, or you move out of the state of New York. So you're sleeping in a lower tax state and counting the amount of nights. that you sleep in Texas or sleep in Florida. So and, you know, it's amazing about that. You and I could never. I didn't even move to the state of new Jersey because I didn't want one. extra minute of commute time between working and being home with my family.

And you have the richest of the rich people, right? Playing geographic twister on their planes. to make sure they can be in the lowest tax place to not pay their taxes. That was not a factor for either of us, and we make a fraction. of the amount of money of the super, super rich. But but what I actually think, I think this eat the rich sentiment. is not being led by a group of Democrats. I think it's being led by Americans who are saying this country doesn't.

work for me. And many of those Americans are the original MAGA voters. who Donald Trump appealed to because he said, you feel forgotten. You feel that there aren't jobs for you in this country. I'm your guy. And now many of those people who don't necessarily have a political affiliation. or not. with Donald Trump anymore are just saying, this country, this world doesn't work. I'm ready to break the system. So do you think the impact of the big beautiful Bill, which enabled even more money to go to billionaires and high. net worth individuals as they referred to and took,

you know, raise the healthcare premiums of of millions of people. and lots of people chose not to renew, as you know, for Obamacare. Do you think that has actually a knock on effect in the midterms? I don't think it has a direct knock on effect. I think your average person, even your informed person, can't. isn't digging that much into the big beautiful bill. But they're just looking at life, right? They're just saying, my life doesn't work for me.

And they they listen. Journalism, I would say great journalism is is alive and well and strong as ever. Every single day. There's another story out there about the grift. There's another story out there about World Liberty Financial. and the president's crypto business or the the president suddenly, you know, buying thousands and thousands of shares of companies. that he just met with or suddenly saying, you should buy a dull computer. And then Michael Dell gets a $9.5 billion government contract. and their stocks up 30%.

People see that, right? They don't necessarily dial back into what was in the big beautiful bill, what tax breaks were given. But they just say hold on. You're the person in office, you have more money. You now finally have the supreme wealth. You always said you did. So specific group of business people are wealthier beyond belief. And I'm not. This isn't working. And I don't think that's unique to President Trump. Listen, what hurt Joe Biden, what hurt Kamala Harris is.

that people were still struggling economically. And they look and see and they say, who's in the white House? And they blame that person. What's unique about Donald Trump is the reason many of these people. are struggling economically is a direct result of his policies. He also seems to think that people don't care. I mean, he says that people don't care about the grift. We know that he's made at least two, possibly three or up. to $4 billion in this second presidency. And he openly says people don't care. They just don't care. I don't believe that to be true.

However, I think there are two things that have to be. the Democrats have to be focused on, and it's affordability and accountability. Like, he's not wrong. There is such a flood of of corruption that we're potentially seeing or grift. And a lot of people say, we'll say like, what about Nancy Pelosi? Stock trading? Or what about Hunter Biden? Those two examples that I gave are like this compared to the mega grift. Like just even think about the the presidential pardon.

industrial complex, right, that we have right now. It's gargantuan. And he's not wrong. that people's eyes are glazing over and they can't even follow it all. That's what I mean. We literally have a segment on our show that we do nightly, white House for sale, because I want to make question mark. I want to make sure every night we're covering it. and it's in one cohesive place, so we don't forget it. But it is on the Democrats. And I'm not saying I have a tremendous amount of confidence for them to say. this election is about affordability and accountability.

Here's what we are going to do to make your life more affordable. And here's what we're going to do to actually demand accountability. Right. It was it was Tim Miller who said it. They need to co-opt Trey Gowdy from what Trey Gowdy did with the Benghazi hearings. Democrats need to birth their own Trey Gowdy to say, we're going to look. at every single one of these things, and we're going to pull you guys in. and have hearings. It's also what Peter Magyar did in Hungary, right? Where he managed to make it clear that the corruption under Viktor Orban.

actually had an impact on the regular population because Orban. had had a grip on that country. And yet it was one of his own people. that started his own party, that was able to connect. the population to the corruption and why their lives felt worse. That is the best example. The one CEO we've heard even marginally talk about this was Jamie Dimon. When JPMorgan did not write a check for the ballroom, he said, Trump's not always going to be in power.

This thing, he didn't say this thing smells to the high heavens. But he said, I don't want to be in a situation. in the next go around and the next administration. when they turn around and they say, this is corrupt. So when he said that, and I agree, I mean, you're like, finally someone is saying something like this, and he's very clear about what he thinks. Why? Why does this seen such short term, especially for the tech guys who are sucking up to Trump like this? Do they not think there will be a Democratic president in their future?

So I would say two things. So first, I think when Jamie Dimon said that. and we said why don't more why don't other people do that? Well they don't because soon after saying that Trump sue Jamie Dimon, I think to the tune of $5 billion, JP Morgan and him personally. And that was because they decided to debunk him after January the 6th. Correct? Correct, correct. Which, by the way, if you ever understood sort of the. very basic banking rules of KYC, know your client, right.

You have to understand the person who's banking with you, where they got that money from, where that money was made, how it's being used. And if you cannot answer that question, then you should not be banking. with them. Things that could have been applied. to Jeffrey Epstein when they were banking him. We're moving swiftly on. Why didn't why don't more of the tech people seem to think. like there's going to be a Democrat in the House at some point? I'm going to have to account for this. So I think they have never had so much access to power.

They have never had so much control. Right? I mean, I almost said Donald Trump doesn't know. what AI stands for, but it's extraordinary. Education Secretary, what it stood for us and thought it was it was. Yeah. Linda McMahon, think about it. How much influence they have been able to have over the president. AI is just AI is going to change every element of the way that we live. And Donald Trump is basically given car blanche in terms of regulation.

And so I think like they're going to go while the going is good. And I think many of them in the Elon Musk averse. have so much power and influence, I don't know that they think it's going to change. And listen, I don't know. The Democrats have clearly shown what accountability looks like. Look no further than social media regulation. Okay. But almost more than laying blame to the billionaires or the business. people, I lay it on lawmakers because lawmakers not across the board,

but for a quick check of $25,000 here in $25,000 there. Show me the massive legislation that you saw either. party pass over the last 15 years when it comes to social media. Yeah, an industry that we know has had devastating impact on our lives. So you knew both Scott Besant and Howard Ludwig. before they became Treasury and Commerce secretary, respectively. Were you surprised at how sycophantic they've become?

This is a great question. I mean, Howard is a salesman. Howard is not an economist. Howard is a salesman, and it's a cantor. Fitzgerald is a middleman. It's a brokers broker. I mean, I would say I'm more surprised by Scott when people say that. Like, why does God get tongue tied on TV? I think he's tongue. tied on TV because he knows many times when he's on TV he's not being honest,

certainly not when he talks about tariffs, that's for sure. I think I mean, when they sit around the table and they go, Mr. President, you are the greatest president. Oh, Mr. President. How can I lick you more? Correct. Were you. I was just surprised by that. No, it's stunning to see it. That's when I'm like, wait, are we in North Korea? But we should look no further than the transition, right? Howard Lutton and Linda McMahon, who want you to be the Commerce secretary before Howard said boom.

He said very clearly, the number one. job qualification in Trump's second term is loyalty to Trump. So while when I watch it, I watch and disbelief that these people. who have lots of credibility or lots of success. would, would, would bend like, I'm like, why would you know, you're on television? Like, why would you do that? But I think we knew that going in. I mean, it was a knife fight for all these people to get these positions. And now that they have them, they're not letting go.

If you think back to Trump's first term, there was one meeting. where he brought these CEOs in and the business round the. Yes. Right. And it was. not the official Business Roundtable, but it was like his business advisors. Right. And I remember Jeff Immelt was there and he made the time was running GE. Yes. And he made Jeff. Jeff. It was like tell them the story of when I hit a hole in. what actually it was two holes in one that day.

And I remember watching like Jeff Immelt just like. I'm watching his face as he's just like, yes. Mr.. You know what I mean? He's like, I'm at the white House. What am I going to do? And I remember that day being like, these CEOs are not going to last. on these councils. And sure enough, they didn't. That is such a quaint, distant memory of like, yes, you hit a hole in one now. It's like, when did you get great at being perfect, Mr. President? And they all just go around the table and say it. It's just remarkable. So he's gone after the fed has famously gone after Chairman Powell,

gone after Lisa Cook on the fed board set the DOJ on her to try. Well Bill Pulte in fact the new head of intelligence on her. to try and find discrepancies in how she claimed things for her mortgage. Kevin Warsh is the new fed chairman. You know him, right? So does the same thing happened to him? Is he is he going to be able.

to maintain the independence of the fed? So he's in a he's in a more unique position than Scott Basant. And how that he's not part of the independent. He's not part of the administration. Right. He is part of the fed. Now, Kevin Warsh does want to make big changes to the fed, right. He it was a blood sport getting this position. He wanted it before he got what he wanted. If I were a betting woman, it was funny when when his confirmation.

was getting delayed and delayed, I thought I kept saying, I'm like, I bet he wants it delayed. I bet he would love for this thing to get the further it gets to the midterms. or past the midterms, when he actually has a little bit of room. I don't know what he's going to do, but it's going to be very tricky for him. because inflation being where it is. Donald Trump. wanting rates to get cut and inflation being where it is. This isn't even if Kevin Warsh wanted to do it. prewar in Iran, even if he wanted to do it six months ago.

It's tricky, but it's funny like people dog especially like on social media. People will dog on me. Because remember when you said Scott Beasant was qualified? Scott Beasant was qualified. He is qualified. It doesn't mean he's doing the job right. It doesn't mean he's doing the job. Honestly, Kevin Warsh is super qualified to do this job. He's highly respected, right? I mean, he's been in the government before. He spent the last number of years as Stan Druckenmiller partner. Stan is one of the greatest living investors that I can even think of.

What Kevin is going to do, how he is going to manage the pressures of Trump. That remains to be seen. Well, and we've talked a lot on this podcast. about the real skill of surviving around Trump is managing. Trump is not thinking that you should actually do the job in hand. It's all about how you manage him and the job is almost immaterial. And that's actually when you think back to Trump 1.0, there's the books. and the stories of, you know, them, you know, playing three card monte. You know Gary Cohn and Jared and Mnuchin with like trying to hide some you know.

they don't want Trump to see this or they don't want Trump to they. taking things literally off his death literally off his desk. But part of that is those were guys who were qualified for those jobs. They understand the content at hand. We're in a different world, the number one. And I'm not talking about Kevin. People in the administration, the number one qualification, as I said, was loyalty to Trump. Right. So if that's your number one skill set, I'm not even sure that. you know what you're going to push and pull and take from.

We don't have the right. Remember, Peter Navarro is super close to the president. and the president's sons at this point in Trump 1.0, Gary Cohn. and Steven Mnuchin wouldn't even let Peter Navarro work on their teams. They sent him to go work for Wilbur Ross and hope that Wilbur might be napping. when he was at work that day. Now you've got the likes of Navarro in the inner inner circle. And so it's funny, many of these people and remember Peter Navarro was chosen. Jared Kushner found him doing an Amazon search looking for.

is there any somebody, an economist or someone. who covers the economy out there whose views mimicked Trump's? And that's how they found Navarra. And this is on tariffs in particular. In particular. And then you remember in Navarro's books he had fake quotes from a person from a, from a made up name whose name was like a derivation of his name. It was Ron Varro. Yes, yes. Right, right. But this is my point of like, this is who we're dealing with. So Kevin Warsh is a totally different caliber, a totally different quality.

And the fed does have clear separation. He knows Kevin Warsh knows that the Fed's independence is. a crucial part of American exceptionalism and the strength of our economy. It's the reason international investors want to invest their money here. At the same time, he would like to reimagine the fed. And I'm guessing his hope is that his reimagining the fed aligns. somewhat with what Trump wants him to do, and he can move forward.

We'll see. Do you think there will be a change if, as there is much prediction. and obviously hope among the Democrats that they end up. taking the House and possibly the Senate in November, does that mean that Trump officially enters his lame duck period? And for people like Kevin Warsh, it's. actually easier to do the job you're supposed to do. Yes, that's right. You have less power. This is my point. This is exactly what I think Kevin was happy. was getting delayed. The sooner he's like, I'd love to start November 20th.

Yes, it makes his run much easier. And the clock starts then. Listen, when we talk about Trump, you know, when I even hear, like, Trump's a lame duck, I can't think of that many things right now that Trump is focused. on, that are for the American people, that are for the country. Trump is very clearly put Trump Inc first in almost every. Let me give a better example. There have been previous administrations where we have seen the government. make direct investments in businesses, right? I don't even see that as a huge issue.

The issue is the constant grift, right? In previous administrations, you know, when they're coming into. and granted, those were when we were in economic crisis. But, you know, when it's Tarp or when they're coming into rescue. auto companies, you were never saying. But is Don Jr getting in on the deal? That's the case now that's so different and so unsettling or should be unsettling. because you don't know if the government is making these moves entirely. to help the American people. I believe like, yes, should we be investing in rare earth minerals here?

We should we should not be completely dependent on China. I'd like to think that during Covid we learned our lesson, but the way in. which we're going about it is what's is what's unsettling. Nerve wracking. Stephanie. Real nerve wracking. And what are you hearing from your friends in the investment markets. abroad, your friends in politics abroad about how they are in particular, their economists are trying to negotiate and navigate the changes in America?

Listen, we are now. they are now navigating a world of everybody's in it for themselves. Like, that's where we are, right? We went from decades and decades of globalization. Right. And I'm going to use this because it's your natural resource. and you're going to use mine. We're now shifting to this. What's mine is mine. And that's really difficult to manage. And it doesn't necessarily I don't know who comes out a winner, but it makes the whole world less safe and more expensive for all of us.

Okay, so can we now talk about the things that we were talking about. when you came in, which is hair extensions? The market for her extensions, by the way, is enormous, enormous. I have and we started this conversation because you came in, I said, oh my God, you look fantastic. And then you pointed to your hair and you said. you actually had some extensions in from a recent photo shoot. I had to do a photo shoot because I have a book coming out next year. Congratulations. So what's it called? It's most likely going to be called Mind Your Business The New Rules for life,

work and money. The new rules. Very good stuff. But but the idea of mind your business, nobody else's. Stop scrolling. Live your life anyway. But it is. The title is a work in progress. So I had to do this last week and I never had this done before, and they sewed this little bit of hair in my head and it made me crazy. But while I was in my fit of crazy, all I kept thinking about is young, glamorous women. Okay. When I was 23 years old. Okay. And I would roll into work on a Friday. Honestly, my goal was let me make sure I don't have eyeliner from the night before.

Still on my face. When I look at these young women now, I don't. First of all, I don't know how they have the money to keep it up, but I'm going to say something so inappropriate. They are the sexiest, most gorgeous bombshells you have ever seen. But how did they go home with somebody? Right? If you are out and you are wearing full body Spanx, if you have got eyelashes on, if you've got this hair of. if you come with it, with it, with hair sewn into your head. How do you go home with a guy like, are you running.

to the bathroom throwing out your Spanx, which probably cost $65. when he goes to run his his his hand through your hair and gets stuck in a net, and then you. peel your eyelashes off and your your face of orange is left on its pillow. I as sexy and gorgeous and glamorous as I think these women are, and God knows they're far more beautiful than I ever was at that age. I just don't know how it works. Well, I think maybe I need to go home with somebody on the tender scene. Well, girl, follow her. Well, I was going to say, I think. I think they're not having sex. Right.

I think a lot of them are not having sex. I mean, Gen Z, famously, is having much less sex than even millennials. who were having less sex than I think boomers. Okay, well, I'm watching off campus and they're having a lot of sex on that show. Television, television. I think people are sitting at home and Netflix and chilling. and they're not having as much next. I mean, just statistically, they're really not. But maybe it's because they don't want to get naked with someone. if it means that. they actually have to peel everything and they look completely different. But do you know what I mean? Like, I'm looking at these absolutely phenomenal glow ups.

But then as I look and I'm telling you, getting this hair into my head, I'm like, what do you do when you're like, this is my moment. Let's run my fingers through your hair. And then they get trapped. What is that? Worse or worse, they come out or worse, they come out and pulls a chunk. of your hair out. So how do you get rid of these then? Because they. Look, I'm just going to say they look. Thank you very much. It is mainly we have here male guests on. And so here I'm going to get them taken out in a few days because. because I can't live like this. And what about the eyelashes?

Because I've gone they take them off every day. They take them off because I've gone through phases. of having eyelash extensions. And then I was just like, can't do. The eyelash extensions. are the most delicious and deadly addiction one could ever have. And they break your eyelash, they destroy your eyelashes, they destroy the lashes. But the problem is one. And getting them on is a torture. Beyond what? What is it? It's an hour. and a half of lying completely still while they delicately put each. And it smells like formaldehyde. Yeah. And every now and then it gets in your own,

like one might think like, oh, a Brazilian wax is a disaster. Oh, no, I, I take a Brazilian wax all day, every day and Sunday over eyelash extensions. But once you get them, they look so great. I know they don't take any upkeep. There's no. Listen. You are that girl who goes home with a guy, and you wake up the next morning with these beautiful eyelashes. I stopped getting them because of the addiction. And then. You look terrible. I know. So I attempted this year to be the one to to use lattes, and it turned out I was the 1 in 5 American women who lattice doesn't.

work for lattice being the eyelash. You apply it every night and your eyelashes so badly. looking at your male producer because you're like, he's googling lattes. and doesn't know what it is. I'm trying to I'm trying to fill him in while moving seamlessly on. Stephanie Ruhle. You're always such a joy to to have into the studio. Tell us about your new show. So I absolutely I'm obviously I love the 11th hour. I love late night TV. As you can tell, I'm a little and the 11th hour is your show on MSN.

Now, those who don't watch television anymore that my show is on at 11 p.m. 11th hour I love it. I inherited it from Brian Williams, who was a friend, a hero of mine in television, and I love it. I just knew it was about six months ago. I went to Rebecca Cutler, the CEO of Miss Now, and I said, it's time for change. I think we could use cable news, could use the media, could use sort of a big comprehensive morning show that cover. And it's called money, power, Politics. And it covers politics and culture and business, but business in a different way.

As you know, like I come from investment banking, I used to work in business TV, and I think that business news covers business for investors only. Right? Right. It covers. And so when we see business leaders, when we, you know, so many CEOs and so do I. And when you sit next to the dinner, they have so many incredible insights. in terms of what's happening in the world, what's happening in the labor market, what's happening with the American consumer. And I think we very rarely hear it because when they're on television,

when they do interviews, they are talking about their company, how their stock is performing. and what their earnings are going to look like this quarter. Right. And you don't have a broader context. of what they think is happening in the culture. And so many of these people often go on and end up running. anyway for politics or different kinds of offices. So it's helpful to know who they are. We think about the millions of Americans that are panic stricken, because they don't know how AI is going to impact their lives. They don't know what their kids should study in school. Right. Just a few years ago. Right. Your sons are a little older than mine.

So it was like, well, they should study computer programing. and now mine are going to college and it's well, they should be studying, you know, philosophy and critical thinking. And so I believe that we should have a news program that we're really covering. a lot of these things and other places that aren't covering hard core politics. or hard core business are leaning out of hard news. because it's exhausting and it's hard right now, and it's treacherous. And I think there's lots of places that are. kind of leaning into more lifestyle y things, because I get it.

You know, this covering this day in and day out is heavy. It's hard, it's off putting. But I think it's more important than ever. Interesting. Very interesting. Well, I can't wait for you to start. And it's going to start at what time? 9:00, 9 a.m., nine. Ten. 11. 9 to 11. Our first hour is really a big morning news show. On our second hour, which you're definitely joining is a roundtable. It's a group chat with, for the most part, forex spurts, just talking about. all the news of the day with some long form interviews and not every day. But we're going to have a live audience, most likely once a week because.

more and more people are. saying, especially legacy media, they feel disconnected from it. They think what the legacy media covers isn't what matters to them. And so we're going to make a show. Most likely it'll be once a week with an audience, a small audience that actually participates in the show, that gets to ask questions, that gets to answer questions, rather. than so many of us sitting in newsrooms talking to ourselves. But what we think is the most important stuff, let's let the people tell us, okay, so you touched on people exhausted by news.

We have to ask you about 60 minutes and about the recent debacle. at 60 minutes and the firing of 60% of the correspondence. Anderson Cooper just saying, I'm going to spend more time with my family, the mess of it all. We heard that David Ellison, who's the CEO of Paramount, actually called one of the correspondents, Lesley Stahl, on Sunday. and told her, I'm committed to the independence of the show.

Coming in over the head of his news is his own authority there. Barry Weiss, of course, now running CBS news. What's your understanding of this? Well, we learned that, as Scott Pelley did an interview. with The New York Times, which I thought was bone chilling when he gave two. And these are his words, concrete examples of Barry Weiss trying. to put her finger on the scale, saying, oh, those Minnesota protests. Can you make the protesters look more violent? Right.

Can you make it look like the car is driving towards the policeman René? Goods car driving towards the policeman? I was watching that interview and my husband was in the room with me. And I can tell you my husband's a finance guy. But if I said to him, Scott Pelley, he wouldn't know. He might not know who's in. He knows. He knows 60 minutes, he loves 60 minute. He watches six minutes. But he you know, he's not quick to say. like how could they do this to Scott Pelley? He's a national. My husband doesn't know that. When he heard Scott Pelley saying that, his face went white as a ghost. You don't have to be a news junkie or a 60 minute super fan.

to panic over the idea that the free press is really under threat. And I spoke to Andy Lak, who worked at start of his career. I mean, he's a news legend. He started his career at CBS. He worked for 60 minutes. I know him because I worked for him at Bloomberg and at NBC, and he said some. really interesting stuff where he said, Barry Weiss, have at it at CBS. Right. It's it's ripe for change. You could be a generational talent that can improve the place.

And he said, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, there's lots of changes to make. You want to make changes to the morning. You want to make changes to the evening news, go for it. You have one entity that's the gold standard. That's the gold star that, by the way, if you want to say, well, Stephen Colbert's business, whether it did or didn't lost money, 60 minutes doesn't. 60, 60 minutes isn't just the gold standard, it's the gold mine. It's also on an up right to have a 9% increase in viewers. They're one of the only traditional shows that also figured out digital.

And Andy had said, it's unfathomable why you would do this. and where for journalists. I think it's so upsetting. Scott Pelley said. No, it wasn't. The next day, the executive producer of 60 minutes was fired. The day after the Emmys, I went to the Emmys with Tanya Simon. Yes, I went to the Emmys. because we were nominated and I watched 60 minutes get nominated. and nominated and win and win and win, because it's one of the only entities left.

that has the budget and the expertise and the will to do that. Investigative journalism. And I think the 60 minutes. thing is so important because as excited as I am and open. and certainly my kids are to new media, one of the things that we forget so much. of what independent media covers is investigative reporting. That's been done by other institutions, right? Right. It's been done by The Washington Post, that's been done by NPR or ProPublica.

or The New York Times. And so as much as, you know, we hear people I think it was Bill Maher. the other night who was like, I don't think Scott. Pelley is a national treasure or, you know, he's just a correspondent. I think that we're not showing an appreciation for all that goes in to. that hugely important type of journalism the time, the expense, the expertise. And I think some of us who don't understand. journalism necessarily chalk it up to like, how is this different from something else? I invite you to watch 60 minutes. It's different. Why do you think they did it then? Why?

Why single out 60 minutes? You made the point that there are many days of the week. where they could be working on their breakfast show, which is number three against ABC and NBC. Similarly with their evening broadcast, which they have tinkered. with by putting in a new anchor, though essentially it's the same. Why do you think they focused on 60 minutes? It's almost unfair. I'd love to know what you think. It's almost unfathomable to me because truthfully,

if you want to say this media is liberal. columnist now, it's a progressive network. I don't see how 60 minutes is. I don't do, you know, I'm assuming it's something to do with the fact. that Trump hates 60 minutes because the show he, you know, CBS ended up paying him $15 million over it. But he argued and fact sued them for, what, $15 billion, 10 or $15 billion? Some fanciful figure, because he argued that they had edited.

and and distorted what Kamala Harris was saying in an interview. What I say to that, how many weeks ago was it? Six weeks ago, Donald Trump did a sit down interview with Norah O'Donnell. And did they immediately know maybe online they aired the whole thing. But but everything is edited. But just everything on television is edited. Listen, Donald Trump goes after all different targets. I guess I would just say this, this notion that 60 minutes is. super bias, even this notion of what bias is.

Here's the thing. The truth is not bias. It's just that some people don't want to hear the truth. because the truth is not always attractive for you. And I think that's what the case is for some people. And I think that Donald Trump often wants to shape a narrative that suits him. That isn't true. Look at how he's talking about the war. So if you're David Ellison. and this is the first time that you've ever run. a television network, it's not in your background. You probably just want to make movies. You've got a very wealthy father. He's David Ellison,

you know, is the son of Larry Ellison, one of the richest oracle. Right to, you know, whatever. He's got 200, $300 billion at this point. If you're if you're David Ellison, what are you saying to your father. about the chaos that appears to be going around at CBS? This is bad publicity for the Ellison's. So I think they have there and I don't know, David Ellison. and I don't know Larry Olson. I think that they have their eyes set on something so much. bigger in terms of the movie studios, the control of media.

This is the deal with Warner Brothers, deal with Warner Brothers. I actually think that they think this is just noisy and small potatoes. and, and an occupational hazard that they have to deal with. in order to get the regulatory approval they want from this president. And when they ultimately get so much media control in terms of Warner. Brothers and the big giant movie studios, I don't think that. I can't imagine that these guys are big, giant consumers of news because it wasn't.

that many months ago. I remember speaking to someone pretty close to the Ellison, sort of in that world who was like, you know, at 70, you're obsessing over 60 minutes. Is it that important? Because I think they're not thinking. I think 60 minutes is enormous to us. I think it should be enormous to America. The free press is enormous to our democracy. I think they have their sights set on something so much bigger. And they know that Donald Trump has his hiccups and hookups, and if dismantling this pleases him and gets them their ultimate goals, I think in their mind they're saying this works.

I don't think they would have guessed it would have gotten this noisy. I don't think anyone would have predicted. that someone of Scott Pelley is, you know, nature or background or reputation. or reputation would have spoken out in the way that he did. And I don't think that he necessarily did it to put on a show. I think he did it because he was deeply frustrated. and angry and had been part of this institution for 37 years.

And I think he burst. I think they hadn't have counted on that. I mean, I know, I mean, I know they've hired a very fancy big New York outside communications. firm to help them manage this, not just their own internal team. CBS has. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well, if you're David Ellison and you've hired Barry Weiss, who has no television experience, and she has no television news experience, but neither does he write, which is why he thought it would be fine. to hire someone. I mean, it's so interesting to not have any experience about something.

and then hire someone else who doesn't have any experience. because you don't necessarily see the value in it. Right? So so I'm going to give you a good example. Yeah. And I was just going to say you don't know what good looks like. if you have no experience. You don't know what people with experience look like. You just assume it's fine for everybody to have no experience. And also, we're living at a time right now where experience is. it's sort of it's almost disqualifying. I mean, look at the people that that are sort of causing ructions and politics.

You've got Graham Plattner up in Maine. Total outside, right. Not part of the establishment. Similarly with Donald Trump, people like change over experience. Yes. But I think there is a beautiful middle ground that we're not hitting on. You're right. It's time for change. You know, when, when when you work in institutions or organizations. I remember when I first came to NBC feeling, you know, I came from Bloomberg, which was really small and really scrappy.

So Bloomberg, like, if you've got an interesting guest. in the building, you're going to put them on TV, you're going to put them on radio, you're going to do 17 interviews with them. because you're not going to get them again. And I remember when I first showed up to NBC and like today show. would have these like unbelievable guests like day in and day out. And I was like so wide eyed like, oh my gosh. Like, while they're here, are you doing seven other interviews with them? And they were sort of like, no, it's not the way it's done here. Right? Because it's this, you know, they're the biggest and the best organization. And why would they? And now every sort of massive institution has been rocked of saying,

well, they're in the building. You better be getting a digital interview. You better be getting social. So everyone's changed. So there is a need and a huge appetite for outsiders to shake it up. But outsiders with expertise and the best of intentions. And by the way, Barry Weiss has the ability to hire a ton of great experts. Okay, look at Bloomberg. Bloomberg. That's where I talk about Bloomberg, because that's where I came from. Bloomberg sold cells. Their main business are terminals.

It's a technology company specifically for finance. Mike Bloomberg decided to build a media company. And it's it's a niche business for financial news. But now political news and other news. I mean, he is what, three, 5000 journalists around the world. But what is Mike Bloomberg known for both as a CEO and a mayor? When he doesn't know about something, he pays up and he hires experts. And it's one of the things he did best when he was mayor of New York City. He says, who's the best at this? Let me come in now.

That takes the ability to you have to remove your ego and say, I don't know about this, but I want to bring in the best people who can. And so in the case of CBS, David Ellison doesn't have any TV experience. And then he brings in someone who doesn't have any TV experience, and you keep thinking, what are you going to bring in the expert? And the funny thing is they're out there and there's an opportunity. to and still like, I'm not saying it won't work out for Barry. I mean, listen, financially, it's already worked out for Barry Weiss, right? Because David Ellison bought her newsletter,

the Free Press, which she was very good at doing. She created it from nothing very good, but it's a very different discipline. to producing television. And then she didn't bring in anybody with television experience for 60 minutes. So you've got the actual editor of the program, Nick Bilton, then you've got Barry Weiss who's overseeing it, then you've got David Ellison overseeing her. None of them have got experience in television news. And it's very specific, right? I don't have the skill set. Right. I would love to work at 60 minutes one day. I would love to learn that skill to do that. I don't have it right. You've worked in media for years and years.

You don't have the 60 minutes experience. Of course. It's very unique. It's a little bit like a dentist saying, I went to medical school. Why don't I just operate on your heart? I mean, it's not the same discipline. It's sort of the same discipline. It's the same universe. It's the same universe. And, you know, the thing that gets you when people say, I don't know how anybody's still working there. I don't know why they didn't all walk out. Like, I think that's pretty rich. when people say that, first of all, the people who are there are still part. I mean, they're going to try and stay and make this survive.

And if Leslie Saul does. maintain her independence, maybe she's going to pull this out of the depths. And it's listen, for many, many years, it was a dream job to work there. And I think people still want to believe they can pull it out. And so we'll see what happens. I mean, maybe Barry will realize the era of her ways. Right? Like Nick Bilton has tried, it seems like, to kind of come back from this somewhat. So I think like we don't know what's to come, but I just think beyond. 60 minutes.

Look what the FCC is doing. Right? Look what Brendan car is doing. Journalism. The free Press is essential for a functioning democracy. Well, and if I were Donald Trump. and I was looking at all the fuss around 60 minutes, I'd immediately. start complaining about what I thought they had in line for me in the fall. I mean, it now becomes what. they've inadvertently done, I think, is make it look much weaker. I mean, if you're Donald Trump, you now have a fresh target to go after. You've already gone after it once and they gave you a $50 million payday,

why wouldn't you go after it again? And Nick Bolton has now said to people, of course we're going to give you editorial independence. Super important. David Ellison has apparently guaranteed that to Lesley Stahl. But if you're. as Machiavellian as I think Donald Trump is, you have a new target in September. But then learn your lesson, boys and girls. This is who he is now, I would say. in Trump's second term, when he immediately started suing. everyone, I thought, this is really going to create a chilling effect.

Like you're going to see. journalism that he doesn't like. Weakened people will soften their voices that that hasn't happened. I mean, look at the Wall Street Journal editorial page, like guns ablaze. And since Liberation Day on the president and look at the Wall Street. Journal newspapers with the birthday letters, the that's the perfect example. Like they knew they were going to be sued. Rupert Murdoch knew exactly what was going to happen and did it anyway. I mean, I would just say every day I'm blown away, especially.

as it relates to the gift of journalists just leaning in and leaning it. And this is after we've seen organizations lose funding from the government. They're still continuing to forge on. And I think that's inspiring. What a great note to end on. Stephanie Ruhle inspiring. You're inspiring. It's great to have you in here. And I'm very excited for your new show. When does it start? Monday, 9 a.m. money power politics with yours truly. Money power Politics Monday, 9 a.m. miss. Now with Stephanie Ruhle with a fabulous hair, fabulous lashes.

Are you going to have a good makeup artist on stand? I hope so. Oh, so maybe even a spray tan? I am from new Jersey. Good luck with it. Thank you. I love talking to Stephanie. She's so full of energy and she's just bouncing. Someone once describes her to me as the only anchor you feel. wants to actually get out of her chair and crawl at the viewer across the table. And that's what it feels like when you interview her. So full of energy. And I love her observations about Scott and Howard.

Ludwig, and whether or not Kevin Walsh will be able to survive at the fed. without becoming equally so publicly, at least sycophantic. Anyway, if you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to press your subscription button. Big thanks to our production team Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passa, Heather Passaro, and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many BBC tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.