Why Trump Isn't Joking About Canceling Midterms | The Daily Beast Podcast

Donald Trump yesterday talking to, a lot of his Congress. sort of alluded to or made a joke that the midterms might even get canceled. The midterms might not even go ahead. Do you think that this is genuinely a possibility? Oh, absolutely a possibility. I mean, I would go further and say most likely scenario. that he tries to disrupt the midterms, cancel them, delay them, whatever else I mean. I mean, this is a guy who just,

took Maduro out of Venezuela. I think we should take this deadly seriously. And if there's one lesson I've learned from Donald Trump over two terms. is that when he says he's going to do something bad, he almost always does something worse. I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast, and I can barely believe these words are going to come out of my mouth. But I am so excited to share. a conversation with you that I just had with a congressman.

I know, how is that possible? Normally they speak in policy paragraphs. They seem inhuman, but Seth Moulton represents district six. I think that's what it's called in Massachusetts. And we had such a remarkable, freewheeling conversation. about the failure of Democratic leadership, about the kook that is RFK. junior, about Texas, and how weak the actual Army regard him as. It was just a riveting conversation.

And then, of course, Donald Trump's clearly declining mental health. And the big question facing all of us, really, which is, are we on the potential verge. of a new world war anyway, it's almost worth moving to Massachusetts for. Let's get into it. Congressman Seth Moulton. And as we speak, U.S.

troops appear to be trying to onboard a Venezuelan tanker. which managed to evade the blockade and appears to be headed for Russia. Anyway, let's step back a moment and just ask you, Venezuela, is there even a plan? Absolutely not. I mean, the honest truth is we don't really know. because the administration has been lying to us every step of the way.

You know, there are a lot of a lot of complaints. about the fact that the administration hasn't briefed Congress. But in a sense, they have been briefing us, not reliably, but over the past several months. And we've had opportunities, especially on the Armed Services. Committee, to ask them questions like, do you plan regime change in Venezuela? They said no. Do you plan to use ground troops in Venezuela? They said, no. Do you plan to do anything beyond the boat strikes in Venezuela?

They said no. So they have briefed us a bit. They've just lied to us every step of the way. So, Congressman, when you have a briefing for those of us. who've never been in the briefing room, who is briefing you and what is it like? Well, there are a lot of different briefings, but let me focus on two. One is the briefing that we're going to have today from administration officials. And that's when people like. Ranger Pete, the Secretary of war,

as he calls himself, right into and. I mean, I'm dying who never made it to Ranger school. So that's why we kind of joke about that. But also very joke. But, we must come back to Pete Hegseth because I want to fool debrief on him. And I know you've gone mano a mano with him in select committee meetings, but. but let's get I interested to explain the briefing to us. Yeah. So, like, we'll have an all member briefing all the members of the House.

or all the members of the Senate and people like Hegseth and Rubio. and their deputies will come and then explain stuff. And and Hicks has always read very carefully from his notes, because especially after the Iran briefing where he said things that weren't true, he's got to be very careful about what he says. Rubio is much more casual, and he'll just get up there and say, all right, look, guys, I'm I'm one of you. You know, I was in the Congress just just a short time ago.

And let me just level with you. What's going on? But in these big briefings, they don't get into much detail. because there's a lot of people, members that they obviously can't trust. And and as a result, they just sort of give this high level stuff. But we can still ask. fundamental questions like, do you plan to invade Venezuela and. let's just say they have they have lied. The second kind of briefing that I get is as a member of the House Armed Services. Committee, we have much smaller briefings with lower level people.

These are sort of like, you know, deputy secretaries in the Department of Defense. and Israel, who is senior military officials, admirals, generals and whatnot. And in those settings, with a much smaller group of more trusted individuals. And these are fully classified, we can really get into the details. when we really ask tough, pointed questions. Like, are you making operational plans for doing anything, in Venezuela now? Because these are classified.

I can't share the answers to the questions, but I can tell you, you know, have they told the truth? And I can share some of the questions that we have asked. And the bottom line is they just come in and lie to us. Really? So what are some of the questions you've asked then? Is there going to be, regime change? Are they has anybody said. Did anybody ask are they going to extract the president and his wife? I don't think anyone asked that question in particular.

We also didn't ask, are you planning. to invade nations to steal their oil? Because. Right. I mean, if I were a member of the Duma. in Russia, that might be a good question to ask. But we didn't think. we had to ask a question like that in the United States of America. Well, I guess we've learned our lesson there. So you're going to have a briefing today. Are there going to be questions also asked about keep and Colombia.

and now unfathomably, Greenland. in the in the larger briefing we're having today. that all members of the House, can attend the administration officials. usually try to filibuster for quite a while, so we don't get to there very many questions. I mean, this is like, this is like such a test of any politician. Like, do. they just speak. for a long time and filibuster, or do they genuinely want to hear your questions? Like, there are colleagues of mine who do town halls. where they basically just. rattle on forever, and I really try to, like, actually listen to people.

and then let them yell at me if they want to. and actually get to respond to those questions. This administration, they don't want to take questions, so they're going to filibuster for a while. They'll get to a few questions at the end. And it's kind of like this, you know, rat race. to get up to the front of the auditorium and ask your question. And if there are a bunch of softballs from Republicans. who will aid the administration by filibustering themselves, you know, well, let me just spend about five minutes before I get to my question.

talking about what a brilliant President Donald Trump is. You know, then we're not going to get to as many of these pointed questions. that really that we really need to ask to do our job. So I'm assuming that you woke up on Saturday morning, like the rest of us, with complete surprise and shock at the news about Maduro. Now you now Congress is back. What are you hearing from your colleagues across the aisle, as well as Democratic colleagues?

Well, first of all, just just to tell you how it happened, I got a text at three inches the morning from, a friend who just said, saw this on the internet. Looks like this is happening. And, was I surprised in a sense, was I shocked? No, because honestly, I've just gotten used to this administration. lying to us and doing things that they say they won't do and doing things.

that are just completely insane like this is absurd. What's going on here? I think some people have lost touch with the fact that this administration. has normalized things so much normalized, crazy, absurd things. that you would only expect dictators like Vladimir Putin to do, that. we're not just stepping back and saying for a minute, this is totally nuts. It doesn't matter how bad Maduro is, it doesn't matter what a mess Venezuela is. It doesn't matter how brilliant the military operation was.

Very proud of the troops. Sure. I'm proud of the troops. Of course I'm proud to be a veteran myself. That doesn't matter. This is nuts. And we should not be running Venezuela. We should not be occupying Venezuela. We should not be putting more people into Venezuela. We should not be starting wars for our oil companies. Who, by the way, if you do the math, don't even want Venezuelan oil. None of this makes sense. It's dangerous and it does nothing to solve. all the big problems that we actually have here at home. So.

sorry for that rant, but like, that's just the reality here that I think we've got to be honest. with people about it. So do your Republican colleagues in Congress agree with you. when you're just talking in small groups and the press? Isn't that so? Do Republicans also think that this is nuts and potentially dangerous? I mean, just a few weeks ago before any of this. big stuff up, I mean, when we were just killing people on boats,

just the extrajudicial killing spree, right? I heard several Republicans say to me, was it. one of them came up to me and said, look, if Biden were doing this, we'd be crying bloody murder. So they're just being so political, so completely subservient to Trump. And there's one word that summarizes all of this, which is just cowardice. There's cowards. They care much more about.

sucking up to. Donald Trump than following their oath to the Constitution. That's the bottom line. This is the weakest Congress, probably in American history, certainly the weakest speaker in American history. And it's doing terrible, terrible damage to the institution of Congress. that's supposed to actually act, as we all know, as a check on the executive. three days before the Maduro news, people got their healthcare bills and saw. their premiums had in cases, some cases.

tripled, certainly doubled in many cases. And clearly this feels like it is some sort of a distraction technique. Even Donald Trump appears to think he's going to lose the midterms. So in what way are Republicans not now looking forward and thinking, how are we going to deliver for people back home? I mean, I understand the threat of a primary, but. what Republican is going to win if this keeps going on?

I don't know. But let me just stop for a second and say, you know, a lot of people are saying, look, don't get all political about this. And like conspiracy theorist or whatever, like, this is blatantly obvious. Why is he starting a war threatening more wars all of a sudden right now? Because there's two things we're not talking about. One is health care, which you just mentioned, and the other is upstate. We're releasing their troves of Epstein files that are being released. Although the Justice Department.

is disobeying the law and dragging its feet on the releases. And this is the one thing, the one thing that actually. is really hurting Donald Trump. So of course, this is one he's starting these wars right now. And I think that just it's so obvious what's going on here. And it should be obvious. to the American people that as the president lies to Congress, lies to you, it's all in the name of protecting himself. How effective do you think Democrats are being.

at stressing this, at saying exactly what you've said? Not effective at all. And by the way, I realize I didn't really answer your last question, which is about like, okay, so how is this going to affect Republicans in the midterms? But, but, but we're kind of going to get to it here, because there's no question. that Republicans should get completely wiped out in the midterms. But the problem is that there's a real lack of leadership. in the Democratic Party right now. And the Democratic establishment, sort of using the same old playbook.

that clearly is not working, that clearly has not been effective at stopping Trump. We've got a second term of him, you know, that clearly has not been effective at. showing the American people that there's a trustworthy alternative here. We just seem to continue doing the same old thing. And so, you know, like that's one of the reasons why I think we just. got to be more bluntly honest about what's going on and not wrap ourselves. around the axle of, you know, well, we don't want to we don't want to offend.

You know, we don't offend the military by criticizing this operation. after it was really successful or, you know, we don't want to offend, the vessel and expats who want Maduro gone like I hear them. I've got a really great friend, the Venezuelan expat, like, hates Maduro, I get it, but let's just be honest and straightforward with people. But the problem is that. the Democratic Party right now has a history of of doing this right. We kind of just ignored immigration. We said, oh no, this is Republicans weaponizing the issue is not really a big problem.

Well, it was a number one issue in the last election. And then we, you know, said the Biden administration said inflation wasn't a big deal. Oh, it's transitory. Like, what does that even mean? If oh, can you just get to the get the checkout line and you're taking. cartons of eggs out of your cart because you can't you can't pay for them. You don't want to hear from the president, though. This is transitory. And then and then the icing on the cake, of course, was everything's fine. There's nothing to see here.

Joe Biden is just great. And Americans could see with our own eyes that that wasn't the case. So I think the Democratic Party has a real credibility problem right now. And when you have a credibility problem, when you have people who just say, I don't think I can trust these guys, I might hate. what Trump's doing, but I think I can trust the opposition. Then you have to change. You have to show, okay, I hear you. I want to change, not blinders on. I'm going to keep doing the same old thing.

So you were part of a group in 2018 that that moved to try and oust. Nancy Pelosi, largely because she'd been there such a long time. You're now running for Senate against Ed Markey, who's been long. a long term senator in Massachusetts, who's 79. How did the Democratic Party and, of course, Donald Trump is the oldest president we've had. He'll be 80 this year. How did the political parties get sort of held hostage by people who,

in any other career, would have been forced to retire by now? It's especially bad problem for Democrats. I mean, in the past year, three. Democratic colleagues of mine in the House died. And so, like we would have we would have defeated the big, beautiful bill on the first vote. If one of my colleagues, you know, may soul. rest in peace had simply died a day later.

So this is this be dangerous. It's shocking to hear that. Do you think there should be an age cutoff? I do, I do. We have an age limit for judges in Massachusetts and it's 70. That doesn't mean that there aren't. brilliant judges who are 80 or even and maybe even a few who are 90. But, you know, in the same vein, I served with some of the most incredible, amazing Americans I've ever met in my life in the Marine Corps. And these are young Americans that we give extraordinary responsibility.

to, I mean, 18 year olds who are making life or death decisions. Most of my colleagues in Congress have never made life or death decisions before. And yet we entrust that responsibility to 18 year olds. So, look, I served with a lot of Marines who are, frankly, way more professional than some of my colleagues. and yet we've kind of agreed as a country that 26 is the age limit. Do I know 24 year olds, 22 year olds. who could be more responsible than my colleagues today? Yes.

But we don't protest and we just say, okay, that's a good. just general guideline. You have to be 26 before you can get into a position. where you're making important decisions as a member of Congress, I think it's only reasonable to say that we should have an upper echelon as well. Now, I don't know what that should be, but I do think we should have that debate. I want to foster that debate. And and I'll tell you this, like, if we can, you know, conclude on an age. there, come to it, come to an agreement, I will work to pass it into law.

And if I'm ever in that position myself, I will certainly abide by it personally. So how is your Senate race going? I mean, it's early days, but it's later this year, right? Well, I mean, it is early days because the, election is not the primaries, not till next, September. And, we just launched a couple months ago. But it seems to be going pretty well. And I'll give you just, you know, a couple measures. One is that this basic message message that it's time.

for a new generation of leaders in the Democratic Party. It's really resonating, you know, and I remember my first campaign. when I was also running against the Democratic establishment. I was taking on a nine term incumbent. And by the way, there are a lot of members of the Massachusetts. Democratic establishment who said, why are you doing this? You shouldn't run against a fellow Democrat. Like, this is not good. This is not right. What they were basically saying to me was, as a young veteran, having.

just returned from the war, Seth, do not participate in the democracy. you just risked your life to defend, and that is wrong. And we should be welcoming these contests in a democracy. Right? Do you do you have, support yet from Elizabeth Warren, the other senator in Massachusetts, and, Governor Healey? No. So, so Elizabeth Warren and many, many other politicians in Massachusetts. endorsed Ed Markey long before there was any talk of any of us running against him.

And, there ended up being a number of members of Congress, colleagues of mine. from the Massachusetts delegation who looked at running against, Senator Markey, prominently, Jake. Arkin, Klaus and Iona Pressley as well, both of whom have decided not to run. But, but look, what what Senator Markey did is he spent the first, part of this year just running around and getting everybody's endorsement, that he could. But endorsements don't win races. And frankly, it just proves my point that the establishment is with the senator,

the political establishment that seems so calcified. in the Democratic Party today is supporting Senator Markey. That's exactly what you would expect. So I'm not focused on, you know, getting other politicians to endorse me. I'm focused on getting Massachusetts voters to support my campaign. And I mean, look, the early signs are pretty good. The message is really resonating. A lot of people feel that this is a time when we need a new generation.

of leaders in the party. And by the way, I've always said that. I said that in my first race. I've said it when I help people get, get people like Maggie Sherrill. and Abigail Spanberger elected through my organization, Serve. America in 2018, again operating outside the Democratic establishment. to set up this independent organization to support candidates who ended up, by the way, flipping about half the houses we flipped. So sorry for half the seats. We flipped in the entire House of Representatives that year. So completely outsized impact.

Again, working outside the party establishment infrastructure. And yeah, so I'm used to running against the establishment, and it's not always popular, you know, but right now it feels desperately needed. So that's working. Well, we just got, early fundraising reports back. I raised 2 to 3 times as much, as he did. So, you know, things are. things are off to a good start, but we've got a long way to go. And I very much think I'm the underdog in this race. Like I'm not. I don't think for a second this is going to be easy.

You know, this is it's always tough to unseat, an incumbent, especially one who's been elected in Congress. for half a century for longer than I've been alive. It's just extraordinary to think that someone could be doing it. for that length of time. And of course, he's been a popular senator. But the point is, he's right where he good guy and and I want to thank you. I thank you for your service, Senator. You know, you've dedicated the majority of your life,

to to public service, to serving in elected office. It's not always an easy job. And I respect, Senator Markey. And by the way, I like him. He's a nice guy. He's a very nice guy. But thank you for your service. Let's pass the torch to a new generation of leaders. So another family that is, or other. entrenched Democrats in Massachusetts are, of course, the Kennedys. And then you have Robert F Kennedy. Now, pulling back on vaccines and changing, well, seeming.

to, to be trying to unsolved problems that have been solved for a long time. Again, what are you hearing from Republicans on the Hill. about what they actually think about Robert Kennedy? I think he's a kook. I mean, so many of. them said, come on, Democrats, stop whining about this. He's not actually going to get confirmed as secretary of HHS. And do they have what what is their reaction. to what he's doing, the dismantling of allowing children certain vaccines,

the pushing back of vaccines until kids are 12, when the public reaction is to do nothing, because this is what Trump seems. to want, right? And again, they're just cowards. So they won't do anything to go against the president. And privately, especially the doctors, know that it's ridiculous. And I've had some of these private conversations with doctors who, you know, shake their shake their heads. But what Republicans are able to do in this moment. is rationalize their position.

You know, really, really drink the Kool-Aid. by keying into one thing they like that he's doing. And, and, you know, one of one of the sort of recipes that Donald Trump success, I hate to admit it, is that he usually finds a kernel of truth. and tries to address that kernel. of truth, and then, of course, just blows it completely out of proportion. So when, you know, Secretary Kennedy says. America is not very healthy and we should eat healthier foods.

I agree with that. Right. It's hard not to agree as a parent, as a dad, I feel like it's such a struggle. to get my kids healthy food here in America. And so I agree, we should be eating healthier. We should not be failing to vaccinate our kids. Crazy times. So. So let me ask you about Pete Hegseth, who also, served in. Iraq as a as you did. What do you make of his decision?

Or perhaps it's Donald Trump's decision, but nevertheless, the two of them. to change the name of the department of Defense to the Department of War. And what do you make so pathetic? What do you think of his. a whole warrior culture when you saw him pull all the generals together. and make them come from across the world and sit in front of him, and then him lecture them on being overweight. What did you think? As a as a marine, it's the definition of weakness.

He's so weak, you know, he's so weak that he has to go around. and puff up his chest and try to act tough and say mean things. and change the name of his department to war instead of defense. to try to prove something he's probably been trying to prove for his entire life, which is that he's not weak, and yet he's totally weak. And one sign of weakness is when you can't even adhere to your own principles. And that's what we've learned time and again with Pete Hegseth, because Pete.

Hegseth right now is going after a true American hero, astronaut Mark Kelly. It's better, demoting him. Right? Doing things that are totally unprecedented. Why? Because Senator Kelly said something crazy. He said you should follow the law. You should follow the law. If you are serving in the United States military, a position of strength would have been for the secretary to say, yeah, he's right, and I'm not going to tell anybody not to follow the law. The whole thing would have gone away. But he's so weak that he has to try to attack Mark Kelly.

And then it comes out. that Pete Hegseth himself said basically the exact same thing. Word for word, back in 2016 or 2015 when he was criticizing Donald Trump. Like like most Republicans at the time, before he changed his principles to support Donald Trump. So everyone, everyone I know in the military thinks that up. is a total joke. And that's kind of the more junior folks, the more senior people.

who I, you know, just know because of my job. here in Congress on the Armed Services Committee, will privately admit. that the Department of Defense is just in total chaos. Nothing is getting done. It's a mess and it's dangerous. It's dangerous for our national security. When the secretary of defense himself is a threat. to our national security, as he proved when he released. all this classified information right before an operation. Where had the Houthis or the Chinese just gotten that, classified information?

They could have shot down our planes and Americans would have died. Okay, so let me take you back. to Democratic leadership because you think that he's great, though. Okay. So if it comes back that it is classified, will you take accountability or not? We've already established you've already admitted that it was classified, because everything you get from Centcom is classified. You just explained that to me. That's how you justify not answering. That's not what I said. I didn't. I didn't confirm any classification or okay, so if it is know is that.

will you take everything I share everything I talk about Mr. Secretary, does accountability apply to you or not? Is classified whether I talk or not? Does it apply to you or not? Does what apply to accountability? You said accountability is back at the secretary. And you know what the Houthis were held accountable for shooting at? I'm just asking you for the review, but let me take you back. to Democratic leadership and what's going on there? We had Governor Walz pulling out this week, saying that he was unable. to campaign, fully and give his attention to the people of Minnesota,

which seemed odd because he. must have been able to campaign last time he ran for office. Look after the people of Minnesota. Whatever. Let's put that on one side. Who do you think is doing a good job besides yourself? Of course, in representing the younger generation. or the new generation, they're still boomers. I think a lot of them of the Democratic Party. I love this question, and I'm going to get to it, but I just want to say something about Tim Walz first.

Because, you know, in in the worst days in Iraq, I would always tell the Marines. in my platoon, we will not be judged by how we do. When things are easy, we will be judged by how we do things, how we do when things are hard. That's what real leadership is. And actually, I think Tim Walz is being a real leader by saying. the right thing to. do for the state of Minnesota, for the country, and yes, also for my family in his case, is to not run. That's actually real leadership, to know when it's the time to step aside,

to know when it's the time to pass that torch to another leader. It's a really tough decision to do that. It would probably be easier for him to just, you know, continue. on his campaign that he might very well win at the end of the day. But actually, I think he's being a real leader. And I think we need more people to do that in the Democratic Party. And by the way, someone else who has done that is in fact, Nancy Pelosi. Now, some of us, you know, thought that she had done this a little too, too long.

And by the way, it wasn't just that she had been there for too long. because she's brilliant and she's been extraordinary, and she's obviously the first, woman speaker of the House, like a truly. historic American political figure that will go down in history as that. But it wasn't just that she had been there for a long time. It was that all these candidates like Abigail Spanberger, Mikie Sherrill, you know, two new governors who had huge wins, in November of this past year. They ran against her in 2018. They got elected because they said they would oppose her. And so a lot of us just said, well, that's where we ran on.

That was our campaign. So, so we should pursue that. And by the way, we sat down, we ended up supporting. Pelosi, who really, you know, garner that support, in the caucus. And we didn't have a good alternative. But she also agreed to step down after the term, the next term after this, after that one. And it's an agreement she honored to the letter. Okay. So I hear you on Nancy Pelosi, though, though she certainly was. in her 80s when she decided to step aside, she was.

But I'll just give her credit. Once she honored our agreement to the letter, and stepping down and passing the torch to to Hakeem Jeffries. And then she recently decided to retire from Congress. And and I think that that is, you know what? We should see more leaders in the Democratic Party. doing and is, frankly, what Tim Walz is, is doing right now. But to the fun stuff. Okay, who are the exciting new people? Well, look at the big wins that we had, just a couple months ago, right?

Drummond, ami Mikie Sherrill, Abigail Spanberger down the eastern seaboard. Right. And they are in different positions on the political spectrum. Right? I mean, I mean, Zoran Mund ami is. I mean, technically he's not he's a democratic socialist, right? Abigail Spanberger and also defied what I think. the Democratic establishment wanted for the city of New York. Right. I mean, that 100% that candidate was really under Cuomo. You're obviously incredibly smart.

So you're getting you're anticipating my point. that I'm trying to get there, which is I'm very, very smart. I thank you for pointing that out. No, but I mean, so there's they're they're not all the same Democrat at all. Abigail Spanberger is very mundane. They are very, very far apart on the ideological spectrum of Democrats. But by the way, if we're going to be a majority party, we got to get them all in the tent. Right? And so, first of all, I think it's great that both of them are at our party. And Mikie Sherrill is is much closer to Spanberger.

And she's only a half mile away from joining Mondavi right across the river. Right. But they all one big. So what do they have in common if they have some ideological differences? Well, two things. Their next generation leaders, every single one of them. And they've all run against the establishment. They all run against the Democratic establishment. They've put forward things like an affordability agenda. that has not been part of what Democrats were talking about at all. You never heard an affordability agenda, from Joe Biden. It wasn't a big part of Kamala Harris's campaign.

She just said she was going to do the same thing as Joe. So this is really exciting new leadership and the point is, it's a change. People say, okay, these Democrats are not doing the same old thing. This is not the Democratic establishment. These are young next generation leaders that I can get excited. about and get behind. And that's why they didn't win by a little. They won by a lot. They really won big. Okay, so, what about. Governor Newsome, who's certainly broken through in terms.

of his social media and his appearance to be unafraid of Donald Trump. and his clear enjoyment at mocking Donald Trump? I love that about Gavin Newsom. I think the question in our, you know, Democratic primary, eventually for 2028, which, by the way, we really have got to figure out how to win the midterms in 26 first. And then that should be a blueprint for 2028. But when we get there, I think, you know, Democratic voters across the country, will certainly acknowledge, all the things that.

the Gavin Newsom has done to confront Donald Trump. Which I admire myself. The question will be, you know, is that the person that we want leading the party. is that the person who can win states like Wisconsin in Pennsylvania. and I and I think that that's a very much an open question. What about Governor Shapiro in Pennsylvania? You know, I've never met Governor Shapiro, but I hear great things about him. So, I mean, I, I can't say myself, but obviously Pennsylvania. is an incredibly important state.

He seems extremely well-liked, and I hear he's a great guy. What about Governor Whitmer in Michigan? I I've only met her once, but was very impressed. I think she's brilliant. I think she, has has really figured out how to run. a, a swing state and do so, effectively. But I would just point out that, you know, Barack Obama was totally unknown. This far out. Okay? You totally you you now stole my point, because I was going to say that.

the really smart, interesting thing about Barack Obama coming from outside. the Democratic establishment was his decision to take on Hillary. Clinton, who just seemed unsurpassable at that point. Everyone assumed that she had it all wrapped up. That's right, that's right. I mean, to look at the most frequent question I get in my Senate race is that. Kennedy tried to do this in Massachusetts to unseat Ed Markey and failed.

So who do you think you are? You know, no one's ever heard of Moulton or whatever. And the point is that, yeah, it's hard to run against the establishment. But sometimes we really need that in the Democratic Party. And, and I, I think that we're at one of those moments. So let's not just look at the sort of establishment candidates right now. Now, I mean, look, I wouldn't call all these people Democratic establishment. I mean, in the sense that they're not you know, they're not 80. Right. But but but I think we might see some, some people.

come out of left field here in the course of the next three years. And we might have a nominee that none of us can expect right now. Well, and I suspect you're going to be one of those nominees, but. that is not the point I'm trying to make. Well, you may not be trying to make that point, but I mean, from the underdog conversation in Massachusetts, I mean, lots of. big leap for those of us outside of politics. Can you just explain who is the Democratic establishment? Because when I look at your rights, you may.

I think it doesn't get more establishment than someone like Seth Moulton. You went to Phillips Andover, you went you've got three degrees from Harvard. Your first degree was in physics, you've got an MBA and you've. got a master's in public policy. And yet who is the Democratic establishment. that is holding down a whole generation of new leaders. to the detriment of what, frankly, the country, it's not defined by where you went to school or something like that.

It's defined by this long tenure of doing nothing but politics. And I think, you know, people know that I am not a creature of politics. I mean, I came in as a total outsider, as a marine. I mean, fundamentally, I am here because I saw the. consequences of failed leadership in Washington as a U.S. marine. And I said, I don't want that to happen again. I mean, there is a. there was a tough day when,

a young marine, my platoon, you know, came up to me and said, you know, sir, you have to run for Congress someday. so that this shit doesn't happen again. And, you know, that's why that's why I'm here. I'm. Because it's not because I studied politics in school. I didn't I studied physics, that didn't always get the best grades, but I tried, and I, you know, and then I didn't volunteer on campaigns. I really didn't know anything about, about politics. And in fact, when I came back and went to grad school, you know, like.

every aspiring Massachusetts politician, the first job I took was in Dallas. I went to run a high speed rail project. But clearly, like you don't move to Dallas. if you're planning to run for office in Massachusetts. I actually got inspired to run in large part by, this amazing nonprofit New Politics run by this, great service veteran leader Emily Cherny, who called me up and said, you should think about, you know, serving, serving again. But anyway, the point is that, you know, there's this sort of calcified, like, I'm all over.

All I've done is politics my entire life that totally defines me. I followed it as a kid. I studied it in school. I ran for the school board and then was elected to the state Senate or whatever. I got picked to run for Congress. by the establishment because they just said, it's it's it's his turn next. Right? He's been waiting in line. And that's all I've ever known. And I think that that's not that's not what we, what Americans. feel like they need. Like when I first got elected,

I remember I was, trying to hire a very diverse staff. And by that, I mean people with a broad range of experience, not just political insiders. Although, by the way, we made sure to hire a couple of political insiders. So we kind of knew how the system worked. But I said to them, I said, look, if we were coming in. to a real high performing organization, it would be very arrogant. to say on day one, we're going to do everything differently. But the flip side of. that is if you're coming into a very low performing organization, then it's.

kind of dumb to say we're just going to keep doing what everyone else is doing. So I really challenged my team like, let's see if we can do things differently, see if we can do things better. And I just think that that's the way that Americans feel. about the political establishment right now. I mean, Congress has abysmal approval ratings. People are frustrated with politicians on both sides of the aisle. So we don't need more of the same. We don't need more of the people who just got us to this point. We need some people who have a different perspective to come in and say,

let's shake things up. When you were watching the debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, what did. you think would happen at the end of it? Okay, so I confess, oh my God, you didn't watch the debate. You didn't watch the debate. I had tickets to a great concert with a good friend and. did not see the beginning of the debate. I only saw the end.

What was the comment? Look, you can watch. What's the concert to the world? But here's the thing. I. You have to tell us what the concert was like. I saw, like, six minutes of the debate. Right. Did you go back and watch it? Did you not go back and watch the whole thing? Well, later I saw the clips. Yes. Right. I mean, you could go on in this day and age, you know, you can, you know, later that night even just get the clips or whatever. So I don't think I was being totally irresponsible as a, as a member. of Congress. You know, as some point, like, you know, I'm a human too, right?

Okay. And I don't love politics as a sport. So, like, I'm not the guy who organizes the big debate watch party. and calls on my friends and says, this is the coolest thing I've ever done. No, I wanted to go to a concert. Sorry. Can you tell us what the concert was? It was it was a series of bands down in D.C.. I mean, it was. It was. I don't even remember exactly who was playing, but it was like. it was just a great fun, you know, the evening off or whatever. And I caught the end of debate, and, I about 30s.

in, like, after turning it on, I said, oh my God, we're going to lose. And the next day, I said, this is some colleagues. And I said, like I said, it's 30s into watching the debate. I said, I can't believe this. We're gonna lose. And my friends all said, oh, no, no, no, that was just the beginning. It got a lot better. I'm like, oh no, this is even worse because I watched the end.

I apparently watched the peak. of Joe Biden's performance, and I don't I mean, look, I'm. giving you an honest story here, right? I mean, this is how I this is how I saw it. But I don't know if I. Right. I don't think I've ever admitted to anyone else on a podcast. that I didn't watch the whole debate from start to finish, but, but it's too late. now anyway, I feel like now, you know, so that's the actual story. And it's I don't revel in sharing this story.

because Joe Biden was actually a great mentor of mine in politics. You know, when I ran. in this very contentious, poor primary against the Democratic establishment. And, you know, and by the way, back then, Nancy Pelosi, Elizabeth Warren, Joe Kennedy, they all campaigned against me, you know, really the whole campaigned against me. Against me. Yeah. As this young veteran running, you know, against a nine term incumbent. who'd only pass one bill in 18 years, they all supported him and, and and.

you know, the. the first national Democrat to come out and like, do something. big for me was actually Joe Biden, the vice president. The United States flew up to Lynn, the YMCA in Lynn, Massachusetts. That was it was so old and falling down. It's since been torn down. And and he did this big rally for me. He hosted a fundraiser for me. I mean, he really went right out there and said, no, this is our guy.

We're we're he's part of the team. And we're going to support him. And then ever since, I mean, I, he would call me from the white House sometimes when he saw me on CNN and say, you know, I it was a great interview, good job or whatever. So, so I have a tremendous amount. of personal affinity for, for Joe Biden, and I've learned a lot from him. But at some point you need to step aside. And and also, didn't you say that at some point he stopped recognizing me? Yeah, yeah he did. I mean, it's someone who used to pick up the phone when he saw me on CNN.

And, and then there are a lot of us here, you know, there's 535. plus on Capitol Hill. But he used to pick up the phone when he saw me, when we were. together at, and in small group, at, the D-Day anniversary and, in France, you know, he didn't he didn't recognize me. And so, so after that debate, I said, you know, I'm sorry I became. I guess, the third, in the Congress, House or Senate to come out and publicly say.

that he shouldn't run for office. But I'm not even that proud of that, because, frankly, I should have been. the first and I should have said it even sooner, than I did. Okay, so Donald Trump yesterday talking. to, a lot of his Congress sort of alluded to. or made a joke that the midterms might even get canceled. The midterms might not even go ahead. Do you think this is sort of rhetoric? And he's just trying something out, or do you think that this is genuinely a possibility?

How concerned? Absolutely a possibility. Absolutely. I mean, I would go. further and say most likely scenario that he tries. to disrupt the midterms, cancel them, delay them, whatever else. I mean, I mean, this is a guy who just, took Maduro out of Venezuela and said, you know, Maduro is corrupt. He's not the he's not the justified leader, right. This is what he's technically on trial for in New York.

Right. And then did Trump install the person who actually won the election? No, no, because the opposition party, one of the big leaders. of the opposition, not actually the person who was elected. But but but but a key ally won the Nobel Peace Prize that he wanted himself. So out of personal jealousy, he did not, reflect the will of the Venezuelan right, Cristina machado. Right. And now he's saying, oh, well, you know, we just need to be in charge for a while.

They shouldn't have elections until things simmer down. That sounds to me like, a trial run of what he can use. Oh, well, things are too chaotic right now. There's a war going on. Remember when Zelensky came to the office. and he said, oh, you can't have elections because of the war? And he said, yeah, well, that's what our Constitution says. By the way, that's not what our Constitution says. Maybe this is part of why he's starting so many wars. So I think we should take this deadly seriously. And if there's one lesson I've learned from Donald Trump over two terms. is that when he says he's going to do something bad,

he almost always does something worse. Do you think that we actually stand. on the edge of potentially another world war? A world war would. start with China invading Taiwan. That's where a world war would start. And, you know, not to be a doubter, but like this actually. is probably the single most important issue in the world today. I sit on the armed services Committee and the Select Committee on China,

and the way this plays out. in the war games is China invades Taiwan. America comes to Taiwan's defense, as we have heavily implied, and World War three breaks out and it often goes nuclear, which means that life as we know it ends on planet Earth. And by the way, for everyone who says, oh, well, Seth, that's crazy. Like, we just wouldn't get involved. Okay, well, then that means that, you know, we can't even have, a private conversation with cell phones in our room.

because China could be spying on us. Because they'll own every advanced chip in the world, you know? So the next time you want to have a private conversation with your family, plan on putting your cell phones in a lead box before you start. I mean, I mean, this is. both options. Either not helping Taiwan or helping. Taiwan are devastating for us and for the rest of the world. And so it is the most important thing that we deter.

and prevent a war with China. And so the question that you have to ask when you're looking at all these other. much more minor foreign policy problems in the world, Venezuela, which is like, you know, 780 on the list, right? Is does this help stop a war with China, prevent a war with China? And the answer is no. No, actually, when we put a lot of American ships. and personnel and focus and attention. and assets and everything else in Venezuela of all places,

we are taking them away from preventing a war with China. Do you think there's any indication that Donald Trump. would actually go to the aid of Taiwan? I think the problem is, I mean, so again, like if, if, if his advisors, there's a whole, you know, slew of his advisors who are China hawks, you know, they would point out all these problems with not going to the aid of Taiwan. and most importantly, the fact that if you if you say. you won't protect them, that it makes it more likely that China starts a war.

But the other reality here is that a lot of. these war games have China attacking us. Maybe not in the United States of America, but our satellites, our ships, our things that would get in their way from a successful, operation in Taiwan. They have the they have them attacking us first. And I don't have anything classified here. I'm talking about, you know, when think tanks do war games or whatever. And and so I'm not sure. how any president doesn't respond to that.

If all of a sudden China is shooting a bunch of missiles. at our people, at our ships, at our satellites, you're on you're on the Armed Services Committee. You must get all sorts of intelligence briefings. What are the briefings you get that that give you an inkling into what. XI Shipping actually thinks of Donald Trump? Well, I mean, I wouldn't be able to share any of that. But but I will. just make two broad points that I think everyone needs to understand.

The seizure thing is deadly serious about this. You know, remember, there are a lot of people who said, oh, come on, Putin's not really going to invade Ukraine. Like, I know he said that he would. I know that he's written about it. I know that he's basically staked his reputation on it, but he's not really going to invade Ukraine. Doesn't make any sense. Well, let's let's just be clear. Sometimes dictators, Donald Trump being good example, want to be a dictator, tell you exactly what they're going to do. And see, Jinping has said he wants to invade Taiwan. He staked his personal reputation on it.

He staked China's reputation on it. He's spent billions of dollars building a military. that has a huge amphibious invasion force to invade Taiwan. I mean, this is pretty clear that this is what he wants to do. And seizing things, also not getting any younger. So if he wants to do this in his lifetime, then he's probably going to have to do it relatively soon. So the most important thing that you should know from the intelligence. picture is seating thing really does want to take Taiwan by force.

And the question is, does he think that we would stop it? Because if he thinks that, we will stop it, he's not good. He's not going to do it if he thinks he will lose that war right. He's not going to do it. But the danger with Donald Trump is that a lot of people think. that he might not do anything to stop it. You know, I've already explained why he might get dragged into this war anyway, but they see it as a worst case scenario with Trump, where people don't. take his support of our allies seriously. so they feel like they can run all over us if they want to.

And then we might get dragged into the war anyway. But the important thing is the stakes are really high here. The stakes are high. Do you hear from your Republican colleagues? Because there's so much talk now about the state of the president's mental. health. Do you hear anything from your Republican colleagues about the 25th amendment? No, I've not heard anything. But there's no question that the Donald, Donald Trump. is not only all these bad things, and he is. he's also just getting senile.

I mean, I mean, this kind of comes back to another theme we've hit on in this, in this conversation, which is although the Democratic Party. right now is now is known more for having, you know, a lot of calcified, very old leadership. Donald Trump is really old as well. And, and I think it's pretty obvious that he is also kind of losing it. And that doesn't make things less dangerous. It makes things more dangerous for our country.

I have one more question which might help. people feel a bit a bit more enthusiastic at the end of this. It's the beginning of the year. Lots of people have, new health regimes. You, Well, you are you remote? Once a marine, always marine. Right. What is your fitness regime? What what what are the basic things you learn in the in the Marine Corps. that we as normal people can do some of in our own lives to stay fit. long enough to to see the Democratic leadership rise again,

do something like always do something. And so I work out six out of seven days a week. Oh, I often, you know, we'll kind of work out seven as well. It's more like, you know, but but here's the point. I think your workout and my workout are probably very different. when you say, just do something like, what's the minimum one can do? Okay. So just before this, I, worked out with a bipartisan group. We still have a bipartisan workout group in that in the House gym. That sort of a CrossFit, regimen.

That's actually pretty, pretty tough. You'd be surprised by, you know, the, like there are some members of Congress. who are actually in really good shape. And I think it's a healthy thing that that we have this bipartisan workout group. But you don't have to do that. Like, you know, just go for a little run or a long walk. You know, do some. squats, you know, standing in, standing in your bedroom or whatever. But I always explain to people that, yes, I work at six days a week. I'm not a brilliant athlete. I just do this because it's good for my mental.

Sorry. I just do this because it's good for my physical health, and it is necessary for my mental health in this job. I don't actually look forward to working out. Sometimes it's a chore, although I try to, you know, sometimes give it a workout. with friends and whatnot, to make it a bit more enjoyable. But I always feel better after I've done it. And I just think it's.

it's a good, healthy thing to do. So I'm going to try to keep it up. All right. Do something. Okay. We've ended on a positive note. We've ended on a positive note. All right. So thank you very much for joining us. We'd love to have you come back and give us regular updates on. what on earth is going on, on in Congress, because it seems incomprehensible. from the outside. Thank you so much for having me. So a reminder to leave us a comment. Tell us what you think about Seth Moulton s policies.

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