Why Trump Is Melting Down Over His Unsolvable Mess | Inside Trump's Head

The no forever wars president now in a forever war. He's stuck. He can retreat. He can admit defeat, which also he doesn't want to do. So he's yelling at people. Solve the problem. There must be something we can do. What can we do? Do it. Donald Trump is the is the is the Hormuz. president Hormuz hangs around his neck. The one thing that that they should have foreseen.

that was foreseen, he ignored. And that was the key vulnerability in this war. And it, you know, bit him in the ass. Michael! Joanna. Michael Wolff, author of four books on Trump. For anybody new joining us because we tend to forget to introduce ourselves. And I'm Joanna Coles of The Daily Beast. Michael, do we have and many other many other books which I you know, I'm.

this Trump sort of cancels out everything else. But let me stand by my other books, which have nothing to do with Donald. Trump fellow. Two of them are books about Murdoch, which has a lot to do with Donald Trump. But I did not know that at the time, at least for one of them. Okay. Nor did, nor did Murdoch know that at the time. So just before we get cracking, Michael, I want to remind people. where independent media, the reason that we can have these conversations,

which frequently go off the rails, and where we both end up probably. yelling at each other just as much as Donald. Trump yells at his people, is because we are independent. We appreciate your support. Please subscribe to The Daily Beast and you can get all sorts of tiers. of membership and press the subscription button wherever you get your podcasts. So of course, today, how could we avoid talking about President. Zelensky and Benjamin Netanyahu in for Lindsey Graham funeral?

The yelling that's going on in the white House, Anthony Fauci up in front of Congress, and who's more anti-vax? Here's a question for you, which we get to who's more anti-vax, Donald Trump or RFK Jr. And of course, is Todd Blanch going to get confirmed as attorney general? All on our agenda today? This is the beginning of or perhaps not the beginning, but the end of the beginning of the downfall of Trump.

I think it's 96 days to go until the midterms. Well, yeah, I mean, I think in this is part of I've been trying to track this. in a subset column that I'm writing called. downfall, which echoes back, shall I say, to a very, very good book about. the last days of Adolf Hitler. But.

And a very good film. Yes, but but yeah. No. And I think that there's. this interesting moment that we've had we, we, we got through this. first year of, of Donald Trump, which was all him taking control, his him exerting. dominance, him seizing things, marching ahead in the way. that we have almost never seen in in American politics,

everyone was, to say the least, rocked back. And you know the the. this new book by by the New York Times authors. Maggie haberman and Jonathan Swann, regime change. You know, it's interesting because it takes the view. This is the most powerful presidency in the modern history of the presidency, or perhaps in in the history of the presidency.

And that's wrong. I mean, it is it is the it's what happens with, with sometimes with books because they take a long time to, to between between being completed and being published. And in that time what we have seen. is clearly Donald Trump in trouble, Donald Trump coming up against a whole. a whole list of his policy initiatives.

that we that at the time were staggering that he was making these kind of claims, putting, putting Ice agents in the streets of American cities, but which have now come back to bite him in the ass. And I. think actually, you can probably go through the list of key. key Trump second Trump administration policy. initiatives and find that they all have backfired on him. Well, there were two human reminders of this.

at Lindsey Graham funeral on Tuesday. Presidents Lensky and Bibi. Netanyahu, who could not exemplify more to colossal, catastrophic mistakes that Trump has made, one. backing Russia in the Ukraine Russia war and the other, of course, are taking Netanyahu's advice to bomb Iran.

Yeah, and I think that just summarizes the. the two most glaring instances of Trump's. incompetence in managing foreign policy. And this shouldn't be a surprise. I mean, what what the man had hardly ever been abroad. before he became the president, had shown no interest at all, has no background at all, and then went on to fire. almost everybody who knew anything about foreign policy. And it has been all utterly instinctual.

Actually. We had a discussion last week about about his. the the pillar of Trump's really. intellectual view of the world. is a man by the name of Lou Dobbs. That's right. The former CNN financial and then Fox.

financial correspondent who believed in who led him down the tariff lane. Another rank dummy. I mean, a guy who who only was whatever he thought. was led by ratings, which is television ratings. And what Trump believes is also, of course, led by television ratings. But the result of that is, of course, he came in pronouncing. he was going to solve the Ukraine problem overnight. Well, he did not.

But more importantly, his view of of the Russian Ukraine situation. was that Russian Russia would certainly absolutely win. Remember he said to to Zelensky in the Oval, Oval Office you hold no cards. Well it turns out it turns out very clearly. Zelensky hells held all of the important cards. And now the situation is Russia. at a at a continual disadvantage,

an increasing disadvantage and Ukraine at a. Kind of kind of. shocking to everyone at a continual, a continual march forward. And not only that, but Ukraine has become. the pivotal, the pivotal piece in understanding. the whole new nature of modern warfare.

So Trump could not have gotten this more, more wrong. You know, he just it's it's it's it's. beyond just a, a an analytic mistake. It's just doping this. If you've been sitting on a business. idea, Shopify makes it easy to make it happen. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready. from day one, including the moment your first customer is ready to pay.

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Start your free trial at Shopify. Beast. That Shopify. Beast once again, go to Shopify. Beast. Well, and you think back to that terrible meeting in the white House. where JD Vance leans across the sofa and sort of pins. pin Zelensky to the chair with a sort of verbal assault on say, thank you.

You haven't said thank you. And of course, now. the Americans are going to the Ukrainians asking for help, understanding, as you say, the new frontier of warfare, which is drones. And. and then we move on to obviously. Bibi Netanyahu and again, Trump. Trump's point of departure is. I am the best friend Israel has ever had. And and as the, the the the corollary to.

that is that Israel is the best friend I have ever had. And together we we represent a. the a pillar of foreign policy. and a pillar of, of electoral policy within the Republican Party. Well, all that has fallen apart. I'm Bibi. Netanyahu is the chief reason we have gone to war in Iran, in a war. that was supposed to last 3 or 4 weeks and is now in its sixth month.

And also in that time, what we have also we we have, we have seen. is that the support for Israel has crumbled across, you know, almost in a bipartisan fashion. And and it is a problem within the Republican. It's certainly a problem within the Democratic Party, which we should discuss because it's a key problem, but it's also a problem within the Republican Party.

So these guys showing up at the white House. is, is is like I mean, it is its own sort of white flag. The white House sending out the white flag with Netanyahu's visit. Interesting. Well, and of course, all this happening against the backdrop of Lindsey. Graham funeral, I want to draw people's attention. to your Substack, actually, which just dropped this morning. And the headline is Lindsey Graham in Hell death can be a Great PR move.

Little more than two weeks ago, Lindsey Graham was a clown and an embarrassment. for his abject sucking up to Donald Trump two weeks later, with the only difference being him having shuffled off this mortal coil. He's a saint. And then you go into something. We touched on that when we when we talked about Lindsey Graham on Saturday. And we will come on to talk about Darlene in a moment. But what what you say you add something here. which we haven't discussed on Saturday.

Lindsey Graham was playing both sides. He was hurt by the general narrative that he had become a lackey, and he wanted. you to understand that he was a running a much more sophisticated game than that. You want to be the last person in Trump's ear, Lindsey told me, saying the same thing that almost everyone who talks to Trump says, but of course, that. that idea that he was the guy that also, along with Bibi. Netanyahu, had really encouraged Trump to bomb the hell out of Iran.

And we have now footage that has surfaced that surfaced. in the Wall Street Journal of a documentarian. that's been making a documentary about Lindsey Graham. And we've got some of the unedited footage here, which we're going to play for you. Some of you may have seen. it's been on the internet this week, but it's very revelatory. about both Lindsey Graham and of course, Trump's decision to do this. and the clip we're going to pay to play it was shot in February.

As the bombing was beginning, I felt a trumpet balling, oh, he's Jack. He's the best thing I've ever done. He he loves blowing stuff up. So you know there are a lot of people inside didn't want to do it. So I've had my challenges. But President Trump. when he gets into the zone. he listens. Ask good questions. You know no tweeting.

He has done nothing. He hasn't tweeted much at all. No drama. He's been a great wartime present. I said last last night that Trump and Bibi. are like Roosevelt and Churchill. I mean, they're the right two guys to to confront. this evil, the light, Roosevelt and Churchill. Trump's a great wartime president. I mean, it's too bad that he died and didn't get to face this documentary, which I hope is being put together as fast as possible by Alex Holder,

the director. Mr. Holder, get on with it. But but could you have a worse hostage to fortune? No. And let's just go over where we are right now. In the sixth month of this war, the no forever Wars. president, now in a forever war. And he has been told quite explicitly, and I think that there was a recent, maybe an NBC news report about this.

that with with Trump, with Trump yelling, you know, do. essentially to aides do something, solve this problem. What do we do? We need to do something. It's your fault because he has been told over and over again, because there's nothing really left to tell him that, that we have exhausted all military solutions. A we are running out of missiles and we will run out of missiles.

If this if we keep up, if we keep up the pace, plus that there is effectively nothing left to bomb. So we have done everything in air campaign can do that. There is nowhere to go. There is nothing more we can do except to invade, to put, to put troops on the ground, which is a nonstarter of a. of a strategy for for Trump. That was really that would finish him off.

So therefore, we have done everything we can to wage a war against the Iranians. And and it it hasn't. There's nowhere else to go in. The Iranians have not only not been defeated, but. they actually continue to be a robust enemy. He stuck, he stuck, he stuck. He can't do anything. This is this is I mean, he can. he can retreat.

He can admit defeat, which also he doesn't want to do. So he's yelling at people. Solve the problem. There must be something we can do. What can we do? Do it. But if. If he retreats, and even if he claims victory and says it's all marvelous, the Iranians still control now the Strait of Hormuz, something they didn't even think they would be able to do. Yeah, that's the it is the War of Hormuz.

Donald Trump is the is the is the Hormuz. president Hormuz hangs around his neck. The one thing that that they should have foreseen. that was foreseen, he ignored. And that was the key vulnerability in this war. And it, you know, bit him in the ass. Well I'm sure it's also going to bite Darlene Graham. in the ass on Tuesday,

you said we were noting Trump's support. for Darlene, who, of course, was Lindsey Graham's much younger sister. He adopted her after their parents died. She's now decided that. not only does she want to represent him up until January, but she's also going to run in a proper election for his Senate seat. Trump has, endorsed her,

but the people of South Carolina turn out to be independent. And they're saying, not so fast. And as we know, as we noted the other day, that he has endorsed her. But, you know, Donald Trump's endorsements don't necessarily stick. if the wind is blowing in the opposite direction, which it appears to be, it is very likely that he will he will retreat from this endorsement. Right. Well, and what CJ Westfall, who is the chairman of the Dorchester.

County Republican. Party, has said is people are going to be independently minded in this. And I don't think that Trump is the end all, be all that he used to be. So I'm pretty sure that Mr. Westfall or Miss Wet Westfall, I shouldn't assume it's a man. Might get a call from the white House. Well, technically happen is that there is within two weeks, I think. I think a a primary, but.

but there are quite a number of candidates. It's likely that she will probably come out on top, but not with 50%. So then there will be a runoff. And in a runoff. It is also likely that she won't prevail, that. that there is enough enough. annoyance with with with Donald Trump. for stepping into this, for her presumption,

without any experience to run in this race. And the reason and let's be clear about the reason why she is running. She was appointed. Yeah. Her her appointment to fill out the remainder of Lindsey. Graham's of her brother's term was a courtesy appointment. It happens before. There's no real logic to why it should happen. Except. Except a courtesy. It's usually a wife. Lindsey Graham, who was gate and have a wife, doesn't have a wife.

or or a husband or a. he was actually in the closet. So. So it was his sister who got the courtesy nod. And then it was Donald Trump who convinced her she should run. He and Donald Trump gets into these, enthusiasms in that little clip that we were in. Lindsey Graham refers to it as the zone. And, and I think he suddenly saw this as a great story.

She would be his candidate. She would be his his. He would run her like he run ran Lindsey Graham. And this would be a feel good story. And then the people of South Carolina, the Republicans of South Carolina. said, hey, what the fuck? What about what about us? And that's what we will see. Play it. Playing out in the South Carolina Republican. primary, Donald Trump will be handed his,

something said, well, and we shouldn't forget that he did an endorsement. for the primary in the primaries, for the Republicans, for governor. And when it became clear that his candidate, Pam Yvette, who was the lieutenant governor or lieutenant governor, as you guys say, wasn't going to clearly wasn't going to win. He then co endorsed her opponent, the attorney general Alan Wilson.

So he's just he's just floating around looking for winners. And as you said on Tuesday for now he supports Darlene Graham. But the minute it looks like Darlene Graham may not win. And there I think 13 candidates as we're recording this who are up against. including the former governor Mark Sanford, who was a popular. governor. Running Trump may well either. co endorse or or just forget all about it.

We called the white House to see if he was planning. to go down and campaign in South Carolina for Darlene Graham, and we got no response, which I suspect means he might rush down there. at the last minute when he picked out, he was going to likely win. But nonetheless. So lots of attention, obviously, at the funeral, did you did you watch any of the funeral? I did. What did you think of Sean? Sean Hannity's I felt like we should start giving out.

weekly awards for the biggest suck up of the week. And Sean Hannity saying that he thought Lindsey. Graham would be a go in the sky, you know, was about as good as it gets in terms of suck up. He couldn't have been more slave. And then that was a double suck up because, Rupert Murdoch, who is who was Sean Hannity's boss, was actually a Lindsey Graham fan,

not a Donald Trump fan, but a Lindsey Graham fan, because that's an old, you know, essentially a Lindsey was the the last of the neocons. And actually, Murdoch is among the last of the neocons, very much among the last. How how old, I mean, and of course, he's outlasted Lindsey Graham by 24 years. By 24 years. That's how much older Rupert Murdoch was, right? Lindsey Graham was 71. Isn't Murdoch 95? Yes. No, I was just trying to think as he's he's I was thinking, oh my God, Lindsey.

Graham died 24 years ago and somehow. But yes, I get your money. You get my point. You get my point. Well, actually, we should just say, even though. Sean Hannity. was doing his best to lick the entire of Donald Trump. as if he were an ice cream cone, Trump kept drifting off to sleep in it. And and when he was doing his own eulogy, fall into Graham, he clearly kept forgetting whose funeral.

he was at, because he kept saying that person, that person, and pointing at the coffin as if he couldn't quite orient himself. He was drifting in and out of sleep. You could see at one point. Marco Rubio, looking really concerned as Trump, was sort of nodding. Then he jerked himself away because one does a little bit on a plane. You know that thing when you go to sleep on a plane. and you're in a kind of a sort of middle row, and your head begins to drift, and then you suddenly jerk up. He was doing a lot of that, but he also couldn't remember clearly who.

Lindsey Graham was at a certain point. And then there was the perfect tap on the coffin as he walked past. There was also another moment. which I think reflected on this moment. with, with with BB and Zelensky. in the white House, in which in which Trump pointed out. that there had never been a war that Lindsey Graham didn't like. And and I think that he must have. a little kind of this another guy who got me into this mess.

So another guy who's in a mess, Anthony Fauci. Before we get let's let's just spend a second. on Sean Hannity because I never like to let him off the hook. Because if Lindsey Graham was among the, the, the, the chief sucking up pillars to the Trump. administration, Sean Hannity has got to be the chief. I mean, and this has gone on for two administrations and,

and a really interesting historical note that a broadcaster, theoretically a news broadcaster, is himself. one of the most important advisers to the president of the United States. Donald Trump listens. One of the few people he actually genuinely listens to is Sean Hannity. Why does he listen to Sean Hannity? But Sean Hannity gets ratings.

Can you? For people who haven't read your book, The Fall, it starts with the funeral of Roger Ailes. And I am going to get you to just, recount going down. to the funeral on Sean Hannity's plane. It's interesting how you've. You've conflated several deaths here. The actually the false starts with the an obituary.

I wrote a. a theoretical obituary of Rupert Murdoch, who is, of course, not yet dead, but ought to be. And but then also that. there is the funeral of Roger Ailes. and which I attended in 20 2017. It was in Palm Beach, and I flew down to this funeral on Sean.

Penn, these playing with Sean Hannity and and a handful of other people. from Fox News, including Kimberly. Guilfoyle, who my wife, who was with me pointed out. was not wearing underpants for the funeral. How do we know that she wasn't wearing? Was it a basic instinct moment, or was it? It was for. Yes. In my for my wife's from from where my wife sat.

A basic instinct moment. Wow. And remember, Kimberly Guilfoyle, I, you know, we we. they sent her off to. Well, they, they, they sent her off to Greece. So we, we don't hear much about her. But remember those shrieks, her shrieking at the. at the 2024 convention, the RNC. The best is yet to come. She was saying. she is is one of the few. ambassadorial appointments that they've managed to fill out.

And of course, Charles Kushner in Paris. The other detail I remember from the book is that Sean Hannity didn't want to give. Laura Ingraham, I think it was Laura Ingraham, or was it an Colter? I always get them. No, no, no, it was Laura. It was Laura Ingraham. He didn't want to give her a lift back on his plane because she was drunk. Stinking drunk. Yes. And he kept saying, do you know how small those planes are? Somebody throws up in those bathrooms.

Oh my God. Okay, she didn't get a ride back. She didn't get a ride back. Sorry about that, Laura. Though she was very visible at the Fauci hearings, the Daily Show did a very good takedown of her. because she is always complaining about people taking selfies. of themselves at congressional hearings and select committees. And of course, she was doing exactly the same at Anthony Fauci. hearing this week. Did you see any of it? Yes. Well, I said there wasn't too much to see.

since since he was an answering any questions. But I did see quite a bit of people projecting. Well, you could project anything onto him because he was a blank slate. He was a blank slate. But he's got hoist by his own diary. Petard as, let me rush to say, we all would. Oh, sure. And our emails. And not by his, but by ours. Right. Do you appear in his diary? Probably not.

I do not. Why do people. Why do people? I don't know if they keep diary, actually. Do you, do you keep a diary? Do you keep a diary? Well, when you're, when you're a writer, effectively you do, even if you don't. Because you're always you're always noting I don't keep a formal diary, but I. But my life is an endless, endless bit of note taking. But do you have a space where you write personal notes?

What is that exactly mean a space? You mean a digital space? Well, you could write it on a digital space. You could write it in a in a notebook. I, I every space that I have. has a note that I have written to remember something. which I will in all likelihood forget anyway. But I was reminded from this book, from mistakes to meaning, there is a very.

I mean, there's such a cautionary tale in it, which what is what is mistakes. from Mistakes to Meaning is a book written by Michael Lynton and Joshua Steiner. We actually did a podcast with them earlier this year. when it came out, and it's about mistakes that people make. And Josh Steiner is working for the Clintons at the time, keeps a personal diary. And having told investigators into Whitewater.

somewhat proudly that he keeps a diary, they immediately demand to see it. and instead of burning it or saying he can't find it or whatever, he produces the diary, which then is used in evidence against his boss. He then goes in front of a select committee and has to deny. that what he wrote in his personal diary was actually true. He said, oh well, it was just sort of ramblings. It wasn't entirely accurate, you know, it was first my first observations.

And so he ends up reading about himself on the front page of The New York Times, as the young, as the young Turk. in, in the white House, who's denying his own diary. And I couldn't help thinking when I read it, why an earth did you tell people that, that you'd written these personal notes? Because they are, in fact, you know, a diary is a conversation with yourself that nobody else should see. I think Fauci's problem was he kept his diary, much of which appears.

very personal, on on government computers and things. You haven't read that book because you have read the book. I have read the book. You know, you went over you didn't read it wrong. I did, because I have an essay in the book about a mistake I made, which is why I like the book, because it's one of those books that actually, if you read it, you learn. Don't put anything in email, never write a personal diary and have more children. My mistake was I should have had more children. Whatever. Just to go back, another point we have made many times,

but a point always worth coming back to because it explains so much, is that Donald Trump survives. because he doesn't put things in email, because he doesn't write things down, because he's into literate. So it is is he illiterate? Because it seemed very clear that he was reading. from the teleprompter at Lindsey Graham funeral. I know everybody says, oh, he can't read, you can't read. But he seemed to be reading from the teleprompter, though he clearly went off at one point and said, let's face it,

not everybody liked this guy, okay. Not everybody liked him. Which is exactly why people like Donald Trump, because they. he knows that someone's written this thing for him. He's never read it before. He gets up there. and he's thinking to himself, this is just sort of banal nonsense. I'm going to say the truth. Yeah. No. Well, this is an interesting question, and it's actually a question for history. What does I mean? The nature of Donald Trump's mind, where we.

where we go so often, but the nature of his intellect to. so does he read or does he not read? And in the, in the early in the first administration, in the early months, when most of the people in the white House. really had little, little familiarity with Donald Trump? I mean, they hadn't worked with him before. They didn't they weren't his friends. They they were all just kind of recruited on, on the spot.

And that became a question within the staff. What was his reading level because he didn't read. You didn't know what to give him, how. how much you should give him, how much you should summarize it. Nobody, nobody knew. And then the question was, maybe he doesn't know how to read, or maybe he is semi-literate. I mean, this was this was a. a significant question. in how staff was to deal with Donald Trump.

And there, you know, I think that the answer is, is, well, he he can read he didn't like to read. It was a hardship or a burden for him. And he would reliably, when he had text in front of him, in front of him to in. as a, as a speaking aide, he would depart from that because he would. grow bored with reading or, or it would be too taxing.

And the conclusion ultimately was you. certainly could not trust his ability. You could not trust his level of reading comprehension. These diaries, the appearance of these diaries is interesting and. is a story in itself. So. So Fauci. kept this diary in his in his on his office computer. I suppose in his office computer was was a government.

computer was part of the. in was an s computer. and in and and it came to reside in its system. So among the lessons here is don't use computers. that are tied to your own office. And I mean, this is, this is, this is like a lesson for, for everyone.

If you have a job. I mean, I mean really be careful of, of compartmentalizing the computers that you use. Because if you use your office computer, whatever is on it does not belong to you. Right. And. So at at when, when, when RFK, when RFK junior came, became, became the HHS.

secretary, one of the. things that he did was, was a look at everything. that that Fauci had left on the office computer. Now, let's also note that RFK Juniors most successful. book was a book about Anthony Fauci. So this was this the enmity here was already set up. The issue was already in place.

Fauci was was RFK s. enemy was a mega enemy was a Republican enemy. So let's look for dirt. I mean, it's essentially that is the modern political formula. Who's your enemy? Let's look for dirt and and what they found. You know, dirt is not exactly dirt, but it was certainly. it was would certainly prove to be embarrassing. And then RFK junior handed this material to,

to Senator Paul, who had made also had made Fauci one of his. his Bette Noir's Well and. Junior, whose. own diaries had been exposed and were recently this well, they were exposed by a friend of his wife's as they were getting a divorce. late wife, and are the subjects of her biography.

about him that came out earlier this year, including his sex diary. and the various conquests he had with the names and, and a numerical scale of how far he'd gotten with them. Yeah. So his diary was much more. should have been much more explosive, actually was not particularly explosive. and is much more concerning, I would say, than Anthony Fauci's diary.

Yeah. And Anthony Fauci diary, it's him sort of both impressed by the fact. that he's now mixing with the A-list and also finding it unnerving. He says there's one bit I went to a book party last night for Jonathan Karl. Jonathan Karl being the political correspondent at ABC. for Jonathan Karl's new book about Trump at Cafe Milano. I was totally swamped all night by people wanting to say hello, shake my hands. and take pictures with me. I could not get away from it.

Although some people may think this is great to have people treat. you like Elvis Presley, but it was really very unnerving. So this has been this has been used. Let's let's just analyze this because this is being used as. to highlight. And I'm trying to infer there because I don't think. this is what it says, but it highlight his shallowness, highlight his,

the stars in his eyes highlights. what what else sees what what do you think the meaning of this. Well, I think they're trying to suggest that. he's a star fucker, that he wants to be the center of attention, that he's using the constant broadcasts. that the president gives about. Covid to make himself more famous. And he's enjoying it and he's getting famous. And I think the suggestion is richer off the back of the pandemic.

Right. But let's now talk about what a diary does. A diary is something you write actually for yourself. So in this passage, he's basically saying to himself, you know, this is really I. this is totally unique in my life. This is this is I, you know, as I,

as as I narrate my own day, this is really extraordinary, this thing that has happened to me. Now, anyone, anyone who has had a brush with. celebrity would write that kind of passage. Well, anybody who's got any interior life might write that, that passage. And also, I mean, some people write diaries thinking that they are going to be published. So there are only groups of people.

That's absolutely true. That's a completely true statement because it's a form. among it's a British literary form. The diaries and people write these diaries and I know many, many, many Brits. who have over many years written these diaries as something that they will leave. to their families so that their families can then make money on them, after they, after they die. And, and it's a perfectly politicians do. But politicians do that here too.

I mean, presidents here do that. I mean, the first thing you do when you're, when you leave the white House is, you know, go and talk to publishers. about how much money can you get for your diaries. It's not only but but those. No, no they don't. And they, they write a memoir after based on these on, on their diaries. But the actual form of publishing. a diary is a British literary form. Actually quite a fascinating one, but it has no currency here. You could not go to an American publisher and say, I'd like to publish.

my my diaries, but it's just a memoir in another form. My favorite diary, of course, is Bridget Jones's Diary, which is completely made up. and yet more true than than a lot of other diaries. But it's not just the memoir in another form is. is the all important thing, and it is that interior voice. that is actually really interesting in a. in a British diary, and that in that revealing aspect of this,

when political memoirs here are neither interesting. in the whole point about them usually is that they are not interesting. They are just a, a, a public. relations tool by any other name. And the real point of a diary on the British thing is, is not public relations. It's actually the kind of personal, warts and all. Okay, that's. that's a fair point about access to a sort of truthful interior monologue.

that if you're if you have the comfort of knowing. it might be published after you die gives you much more freedom. I mean, Alan Clark's diaries possibly. being the best political diaries that that were published, in which he describes another member of the cabinet as the kind of man. who buys his own furniture, which I I've inherited all my furniture. I will never have to buy any furniture because I'm a brand and of a different. class, a particularly passive aggressive description of a British politician.

But but let's go back to Antony forces. I've received a lot of honors over the last year and a half. from a number of prestigious organizations. Unfortunately, there are so many of these that is very difficult to fully. appreciate them all, as they all seem to pile up in a very intense time frame. Another time he says that a few days ago, Julia Roberts. sent me a beautiful flower arrangement, mailed her my thanks.

Scott Atlas, who's a rival, a rival, a scientist still causing problems with his herd immunity issue. Right. And I don't I don't find anything at all objectionable about this. As a matter of fact, I find it kind of kind of. notable that he's that he's aware of this. And and it's good to be aware of this. And, and then then,

you know, you can argue that there is a kind of. a kind of. he understands that he is. that this celebrity moment is a. is a freak moment for him. And also against the background, seeing this as, as as here, here a guy who has labored in anonymity, bureaucratic anonymity, classic bureaucratic anonymity. And then by this freak,

a freak circumstances, a worldwide pandemic. He is he he he becomes. the the a significant, if not the main voice of it for for several years. Well, the other thing. that's so interesting is how celebrities obviously get hold of his number. and start calling him for personal medical attention and advice.

So so we've got one here, had a great call with Barbara Styles, and I accidentally called her later in the evening and she said. she was going to call me soon anyway. because she wanted to know if there was any difference. between the Moderna and the Pfizer vaccine. I told her none. And then and later entry Barbara called me on my cell phone today. and asked me questions about her booster shot. Another entry reads. It's also, it's always good to hear from her. Which is. just, you know, celebrities get themselves to the top of the pack,

but the other the other people who get themselves to the top of the pack. are exposing a level of hypocrisy, which is breathtaking. Stephen and Katie Miller Katie Miller is pregnant during during. the pandemic and is constantly calling or texting. Anthony Fauci for advice. She now says, oh, he wrote the diary. because he knew it was going to be published, and I was. I was sort of enticing him.

to expose the kind of man he was. I mean, she is she is she is truly a rank phony. in, in the I mean, let's let's spend some more. Yes. Let's spend some more time on her. She is is. really chilling in so many. I mean, he. writes in her diary that Katie had anxiety because she was traveling. She was tested positive for Covid when she was only ten weeks pregnant.

And he gave both Katie Miller and Stephen Miller. advice on how to stay safe as they go to visit her parents. I think so again, the hypocrisy of it, because then they promptly call for him to go to jail. Now, the the I mean, the stuff that I found most interesting is when he's. talking about his relationship with Trump. and his interactions with with Trump. And you get to see this incredible both Trump's flattery and Trump's. inattention and and and also you get that.

flavor of Trump just talking and talking and talking and talking. So that becomes a very I find a very compelling firsthand account. of the difficulties and the challenges of dealing with Donald Trump. When you're. when you're a. When when you have real responsibilities in government. and you have to deal with this guy well, and you're dealing with a fast moving.

pandemic and people don't know what's going on in real time. And there's all sorts of. alternative advice being given and nobody knows what's quite right. There's another point that I think it's important to make. about appearing before Congress. And. and number one, the thing you do not want to do that. nobody wants to do is appear before Congress at any time. because its sole purpose is performative.

All you are there. You are a bit player, a dupe in a process. So this is not an investigative body. It's not an investigative procedure. It's just to score. It's so whoever has called you to appear, it is for them to score points and often against you. Right now, your only job is to has no legitimacy. Literally, it has no legitimacy.

And people should start to recognize this. This is we shouldn't pay attention to it. It's not there for anything. It's meaningless. It is. Intent is to obscure the truth. As I was watching Fauci, I mean, we were taken back to that. horrifying time during Covid when no one knew what to do. And one of the books that since Covid, I have found helpful in understanding, actually what went on and why children were kept. in masks two years after the pandemic had started.

and well into a period when everybody was getting vaccinated. Is this book in COVID's wake? And what it's good at explaining is the position of people like Anthony Fauci. And I was just going to read a couple of paragraphs from it. It's by two authors, Steven Mercedes and Francis Lee. Expertise does not immunize experts from failure. Elite groups can tend towards groupthink and mutual reinforcement of biases.

A self-righteous sense of moral and intellectual superiority. can in turn amplify these tendencies. Public health. Scientific experts derive their legitimacy from the perception. that they represent objective, evidence based and fair minded inquiry. But experience has shown that experts cannot always be trusted. public health experts and elite scientists, in most cases, no doubt. sincerely believed they were operating in the public interest.

The evidence that we present here. also suggests that their actions were mixed with conflicts of interest. the desire to avoid blame, protect reputations. and preserve personal privilege and institutional power. And I think it's always worth remembering that when we look back on. what was going on. That sounds like astrology to me. Anybody could say that. Of course that's true. The you know, obviously experts are often wrong.

Obviously people are. Michael, we've rarely seen times when experts. spoke so confidently about things they often didn't know. Experts often speak, speak confidently. They often speak confidently because. Because yes. Because they're experts. Yes. Because they've promoted, but often because the conventional wisdom. rules at a particular point in time. And that's what what what people adopt in this.

situation, in the Covid situation, a wholly unique moment. Nobody knew how to respond to this. There was no model. There was no there was no path through this. except enormous amount of alarm and worry. And so people obviously overcompensating. Did they do this too long? Did they overcompensate too much? Absolutely. All true. But the idea that there was any other way that this could have happened,

since it almost in every country. nobody found that way is is currently Sweden found the way. there was all sorts of evidence to suggest we don't have to relitigate Covid here, but what the book points to is how you end up in circumstances. where children wear masks from the age of two in schools, after vaccines have been operating in the country for over a year. And I mean, closing down is.

obviously true, but the paragraph you. I haven't read this book, I just just the paragraph that you read and speaking and speaking as a writer, I know the mistake of writing in those kinds of generalities. And and if I read that, if I read that, and if that's the early in the book, I would have put it down. It's about the conflicts of interest that that people have. when they are trying to give advice, and the foolishness. of letting public health officials dictate economic policy.

Okay, well, I don't I'm going to stop myself here because I haven't read this, this, this I'm going to send you, I won't I'm going to send you a copy. This is where you say, I'm not going to read it. No, no, I'll read anything. I'm delighted to do it. And then we can have a discussion about this. I would be pleased to do that. I'm going to send you a copy of the book. All right. Donald Trump and RFK, who is the most anti-vaccine between the two of them?

You know, this is a this is confounding because, I mean, I've been following this closely. And I hear within the white House, there's a lot of discussion has been. since the since the campaign about RFK. Jr with the conclusion among everybody, or or. or I don't speak to everybody, but I speak to, you know, a number of people. There's certainly the people that I speak to that RFK Jr. He's just enough case.

I mean, it's everyone is it's all fans. agrees agrees that there is something wrong there. And they roll their eyes and. and they accept that they're saddled with RFK junior. But but but there's no. nobody has maintains that he is. a he is a person who you who you might turn to. for advice and counsel and reasonable policy decisions.

Well, in fact, you would turn away from him. Exactly. So. And one of the things that they have within this, within the white House, it's. a worry, is the anti-vax position, because the anti-vax position. is wildly unpopular in the United States of America, popular. among a very, very small group of MAGA, Marja, whatever,

partizans or that that core. So they have tried in every way to send the message to RFK Jr. Cool it. But suddenly you have Donald Trump calling RFK. junior on the carpet for not going fast. enough with his anti-vax program. So what's that about? I, I'm well, because I thought in the year you had said that you saw RFK. was being pulled back, he was being diminished in the public.

space, that he might be fired because the this position, especially the anti-vax position, was not playing well with the base. So what is Trump doing here? I mean, we know that Susie Wiles has tried to close down RFK junior very much. Susie Wiles has been has been incredibly. mature, I think might be might be. the word about about the anti. the anti-vax context,

which is to say yes, the base wants it, but the larger country does not. This is going to be electoral poison. and they really have to carefully balance that. Now here's Trump coming along and this happens. Of course all the all of the time, which is professional people. making mature evaluations analyzes of a situation. and then Trump blundering in and reversing it and not understanding it.

and making a mess, which it feels to me like this is one of those instances. And also Trump's perception, quite likely of. of his own weakness in the MAGA base. So that's what this was. That's what this says to me. He has a sense that he is. that his base is that he's in trouble with his base. Now, let me let me say that in the context, in trouble with his base,

because all their children are getting measles, that Trump is. Well, not for that reason though. And. so I just wanted the context. You never know why Trump is doing things, because he often acts without any logic whatsoever. But if you are trying to divine some logic here, it would be that he is. that there's a lot of weakness in the base over the war, over over the fact that that he has competition,

whether it's whether it's Tucker Carlson or other other MAGA. heads and conspiracy theories, he's feeling pressure there. So he's reverting to something that's reliable. And let's let's go heavy on anti-vax. They like that. So his base is not worried about getting measles. Even if they are getting measles.

his base, we'd rather get measles than get vaccines. So that's what that that is what the the logic. If there is logic, let me point that that's a very important point here. because there may not be, but if there is, it is probably that. But RFK s head must be slightly spinning over this. Well I think our okay you staffing. is that spin from whatever the brain since.

yes the brain worm from eating raccoon penis. from his various dalliances with heroin. and the snorting of cocaine off a toilet seat. I think he's used to head spinning, so he's probably feeling very comfortable indeed. Todd. Blanche. Todd. Blanche. Michael. Todd. Blanche. Who may go, you know, and here again, you know, it seems it's. What could Trump's logic be?

So there are two things which seem. seem to. be presenting Todd Blanche with some maybe insurmountable problems, which is that the that he has. he has told Congress that the slush fund, the settlement that that Donald Trump made with the IRS. So the settlement Donald Trump made with himself. to provide an enormous,

an enormous amount of money to compensate people who Donald Trump. feels have been wronged by essentially the Biden. administration. Todd Blanche has has, has agreed. that they will that this is unpopular and they will not go forward with this. They will dispense with this, but he will put it in writing. And the other part of this is, is Trump's immunity from IRS rulings.

And so clearly Donald Trump has said, no way. I mean, I'd rather you not be confirmed than me. having given having to give up my IRS immunity. What's more, they although Todd Blanche has said that they will net. this idea of this compensation fund for Biden victims that they're that. that pay no attention to that we will we're not going to go forward with that.

And yet they are going for they found money from another, another. source of money within the government to compensate these these victims. Again, Donald Trump clear Donald Trump mandate. So he is Donald Trump is willing to do exactly the kinds of things. that are going to stand in the way of Todd Blanche getting getting confirmed. Now, even if he's not confirmed, he will continue as the attack, the acting attorney general.

So Donald Trump may feel what's the difference? I get what I want. Plus he'll still be in the in the job anyway. You know in the only thing that's being lost here is is, is Todd Blanche. being able to say on his on his resume that he was the attorney general. So what the hell? What I thought was interesting was that the two holdout senators, both of whom are leaving.

Thom Tillis from North Carolina and John Cornyn from Texas, obviously knew that asking for this reassurance in paper. was going to be the thing that would sink Todd Blanche, they knew that he wasn't going to be able to get that, and that they did. not think his word was good enough. Yes, indeed. And and. again, Donald Trump has not helped him over this hub. Well, and yet another sign of Donald Trump on his way down.

that he can't get this through and he can't get his Save America. act through. Doubtful. downfall, the downfall of Donald Trump. We're chronicling it here three times a week where we go inside his head. Michael, we've got some poems. We've got some poems. First one is from Paul Watson. Trump fears the call of the Reaper as much as a Hezbollah beeper. He can't trade snake oil for his mortal coil.

The devil knows he's got a keeper. Quite liked that one. Thank you Paul. One from Dave. Hildebrandt Donald Trump was an arrogant man who couldn't adhere to a plan. He waddled about until he found out, until he found out. in his death, history named him as scam. And then we've got one more from edits. There once was a don in despondency. with trials and tribulations in preponderance.

A late uncle he hath, who taught the Unabomber math. So in tribute he bombed at the correspondence. That's a bit of a stretch there. Edit but it was. I really liked the way you brought in, late uncle. he hath, who taught the Unabomber math. Except, of course, we know his uncle didn't teach the Unabomber. It was just one of Donald Trump's crazy stories to make himself. more interesting, because he doesn't think he's interesting enough.

And yet he is. Anyway, thank you for your poems. Keep them coming. And we've had several people have sent in alternate covers. for communion by JD Vance, which we will expose on Saturday. We can have a competition and see which one you would buy. Most likely to buy at Barnes and Noble. I really like it that you put. restore the second syllable to the word poem. Americans, you know, make it a one syllable word. poem like tome.

Well, whatever. Michael is always good to see you. Thank you. If you have been for joining us, don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast. This is where I remind you we are. What are we were independent media. so we can have conversations like this where Michael and I yell at each other. It's always harder to talk to you on zoom. I want to interrupt you in person. It's so much easier. And people point this out to us in the comments. A lot of people get fed up with us talking over each other, which we tend to do less when we're in the studio.

I think actually, I think they like it. They say they don't like it, but it is, it is. It makes it real. Michael, I'll see you on Saturday. See you on Saturday. Joanna and Ryan, big thanks to our production team Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Pasa, Heather Pesaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.