Why Trump Is Always Caught in Crisis: Rothkopf | The Daily Beast Podcast

This weekend story is going to get a lot of play because there were. so many journalists there, but it was actually meaningless. It won't change the subject. for next week when you and I get together for this conversation again. What's going to happen? We'll be talking about Iran. We'll be talking about Epstein. We'll be talking about Trump's corruption. We'll be talking about his mismanagement of the government. We'll be talking about the next unexpected crisis. that is caused by the fact that he is a lone wolf whack job. And, you know, the momentary grace that he gets out of Butler 2.0,

the mini version is just not going to last. David Rothkopf, Joanna Coles. well, well, well, well, you've left the country and look what happened. I know I was supposed to be at the dinner. An Urgent Matters called me back to the UK, where I'm dealing with a family health issue. But I have been like you have many times to that dinner.

It used to be fun and glamorous and sexy, and it was kind of the Oscars in D.C. the mix of celebrities and politicians and everything felt. very glittering and sparkling and enormous fun. And I think we were all reflecting this year before the dinner, on how it now seemed hard edged and much more aggressive. And then, of course, this happens,

which is, you know, clearly a terrible, terrible thing. Well, it's a terrible thing. And and it contains other terrible things within it. It's kind of a doll. And you open it and every time you open it, something worse is inside of it, you know? And on the surface, you have the attack. that was targeting Trump administration. officials, or Trump were not 100% sure. who was being targeted with the hubbub.

And, you know, political violence is never a good thing. And I think we ought to talk a little bit why there has been so much. and why Trump is such a magnet for political violence. But, you know, we also had this you know, you talked about it, you know, in here in D.C., they call it nerd prom, right? You know, where all the nerds get together and they put on their tuxedos. and they congratulate themselves and, you know, wrote controlling the world. But, you know, you had this kind of sanctimony.

You know, every reporter in the room got on their cell phone and was like, okay, here we are in Fallujah and bullets are flying everywhere. And I am sacrificing myself for the American people. And of course, that's not what happened. And then on top of that, Trump. immediately tried to turn this into a photo op. And he goes to the white House and he has a press conference in his. ill fitting tuxedo, and he turns into.

the most insufferable version of Trump, which is Saint Donald, the mega martyr. I think you mean, as his wife would call him, David unifier. He is unifier. He was calling for all ification. Yeah, well, quite right, of course. And I want I want to direct people to your excellent column on Substack. about how actually, the lone wolf here is not the guy, Cole.

Alan Trump's own expression for him was the lone wolf. And, of course, the lone wolf. At the center of this, actually is Donald Trump, who's led America into war. without consulting any allies other than Israel, and now finds himself. stuck with a problem which is called Hormuz. Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. In fact, another term that Trump used for Cole Allen is whack job.

He said, all these people are whack jobs. And, you know, there is no question. but that a lone wolf whack job with a gun is dangerous. But let's be clear. A lone wolf whack job that controls the world's most. powerful military is much more dangerous. Fortunately, no one was killed. or seriously injured at this event at the white House Correspondents Dinner. But 5000 people are dead.

in the Middle East, thousands more injured, over a million dislocated, billions spent, billions of people suffering around the world from rising prices. and ability to get gas soon, and ability to get food. because of something just as insane. More insane. Colon at least had a manifesto and a reason for doing what he was doing. Donald Trump didn't have a reason.

He didn't have an excuse. What he was doing was not just just as illegal. It was more illegal. And I have to say, you know, when I was looking at all these reporters in there, like talking about, oh my God. And this is disruption of Washington and oh, here I am. And I almost spilled salad dressing on my tuxedo. And I was thinking, what? Yeah, but but it's true, right. But what about the the mothers. and fathers of the hundreds of school kids.

who were murdered in the first day of this insane war? The reason. Trump made it into a press conference, and I think it's really important to remember this, is that on the morning of this event, he had his negotiators turn around. He gave up again on the negotiations. Iran is going terribly. There's a good Daily Beast story right now. And how Trump is having a meeting of his national security team.

to try and figure out how to get out of this huge mess. And so he was like, look over here, distraction, distraction. And trying to actually make the most of this. And of course, then I don't know if you, you know, followed all this insanity. Then he decided that it was actually about his ballroom. and that what, you know, the the message of having this attacker. was that he needs to have his big gilded fortress.

that he can hide in, and all presidential events can be moved to that. And he's even had the white House lawyers go to the court. and file a motion yesterday saying, you know, blocking the building of the ballroom. is putting the president's life at risk as the events of this weekend demonstrate. And it's like, are we fucking kidding? Our seriously, this is what this is about.

is building this gilded ballroom, which is an engine for corruption. And God knows why. God knows why, I don't know why. Do you know why Trump is so obsessed with it? It can't just be ego. Well, I'm sure he's obsessed. I'm sure he's. Obsessions change because I think the one thing we know about Donald Trump. is that there's no consistency to to really anything he thinks about. So I'm sure he wanted it at one point to make his physical mark.

on the white House, so that no one can ever forget that he was there. Similarly with the arch that he's planning to build. So it will disrupt the view of the Arlington Cemetery, which we know he thinks is full of suckers and losers, because that's how he referred to those who've died in battle. I mean, how soon is it after events like this to. to pick up one suitcase of cynicism again? I mean, one wants to take a breath and see if there's any good.

that can come out of this. I mean, of course, it's the white House Correspondents Dinner, so it wouldn't be held in the white House anyway. It's not a white House event. It's the correspondence event. It's space to celebrate the First Amendment. freedom of expression, which we know that this particular president has been resistant to. They've turfed reporters out of the Pentagon. Although that decision was reversed by a court, they've introduced all sorts. of friends of the president into the briefing room.

and kicked out people from the briefing room. You will remember there was the whole debate about whether. or not AP could be in the briefing room, been there since time immemorial. So I think we have to be fair that Donald Trump is no friend. of the free press, and there's no reason why they would want to hold the event. at a white House ballroom in the future, should this thing ever get built. And obviously, he's trying to take full advantage of it. by railroading it through the courts at the moment. I mean, the weird thing is that these events.

bring out the showman in Donald Trump in a crisis one remembers from Butler, Pennsylvania, when he got up there with the ear, ear sort of bleeding. And he was fight, fight, fight. And and apparently at this one, he was saying, wait a minute. I want to know what's going on. Don't leave me out. You know, you think any other president or like JD. Vance. would rush off the stage immediately, but he's trying to figure out the angle, I think, which is just a fascinating side of him. And the press conference at the at the white House, you know, an hour.

less than an hour after someone has tried to take his life, I'm. sure triggering other similar events. sort of brings out a sort of weird kind of performance. leadership in him, which I think people may find compelling. Spring is a. natural reset point, and if you've been putting off cleaning up. the messier parts of your business, now's the time.

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That's Kuo. Quote. No missed calls, no missed customers. Well, first of all, I wouldn't call this leadership of any sort. And in terms of your suitcase full of cynicism, that it should have come out right at the beginning. because they immediately started to capitalize on this thing. And him having this event. at the white House was, as you say, performative and cynical.

And of course, he had the, you know, the little group of trained. reporters, mostly trained reporters, ask him questions like, well, how can you be so inspiring and times of crisis like this? And do you compare yourself to Abraham Lincoln? Are you one of our greatest presidents? Please tell me someone didn't say that. Please tell me someone didn't say no, it wasn't quite like that. But I know he referred to himself as President Lincoln. Well, he did, but somebody was like, you know, how how is it you deal with this?

And he then shrugged and sort of did his best John Wayne imitation. And then he was like, well, you know, I've read about this stuff. I'm an expert. I invented in fascination and, and, you know, the only people who their, you know, assassination attempts over are the most consequential presidents, which, by the way, undoubtedly got a great reaction from the family of James Garfield. and William McKinley. and Gerald Ford, who are completely inconsequential presidents. But but but I think he was thinking more in line of of JFK, obviously.

And Abraham Lincoln, that's who he was. Well, he was there. He was he was thinking in line of that, of course, Abraham. Lincoln was one of our greatest presidents. JFK was nowhere near one of our greatest presidents. He was I could make a case that he was a pretty inconsequential president. But let's not get into that, okay? The reality is that almost immediately, he tried to use it. to turn the subject away from Iran, to turn the subject away.

from Epstein, to turn the subject into what a saint he is. He had one of those moments like he had after Butler, Pennsylvania, where he said, we must all come together as a nation, you know, and and, you know, the most divisive presidents that we can think of, the most of us are beyond beyond the divisive, right, beyond divisive. This guy, you know, on Sunday morning shows, there were all these Republicans. yesterday were like, we have to get rid of violence in America. And Dana.

Bash on CNN turned to Jamie Raskin and said, don't you feel bad for the tone? And it was like, what? The Democrats are responsible for this tone. The author of the current violent mood in the United States, the author of The Division, the person who owns it is Donald Trump. Remember what happened on Saturday evening at the Washington Hilton Hotel? Was one guy somehow getting close to the president.

and then being captured before anything happened to the president. and the president and all these Republicans decried it. And on January 6th, 2021, Donald Trump incited the riot. that took place on Capitol Hill where people died. People were injured. The government of the United States Liesman died, right? I mean, the irony of thanking all the security forces when you're like, you literally pardoned everybody who was at January the 6th,

some of whom were involved in direct violence against the police. And the protesters, put some of them, put some of them in the administration. You know, I mean, he has elevated violence. into being a plus if it's for him. and he condemns violence when it seems to be against him. And you know that there are a lot there's a lot of stuff. I mean, I you know, I wondered, you know, as a human reaction.

You look at some of the people that were rushed from the room who work for him, who know that he's not a good guy, who understand. that this is their closest shot to power, who understand that in a normal. Republican administration, they would not have a role. And I wonder if they're thinking, oh, I'm not sure they know he's not a good guy. We've talked before about the fact that they all hate each other. They're all suspicious of each other. They're all paranoid. And I wondered if any of them had a moment when they're like, you know what?

This is not the guy I want to die for. This is not the guy I want to take a bullet for. I don't know, maybe they dare. I I'm not 100% sure that people were really that fearful for their lives. Was kind of interesting that they took JT Vance off the stage before. That was amazing, wasn't it? I mean, they literally lifted him by his shoulders and I was like, wait, the president's still there? Maybe he has a better team. Maybe he has. No, he has guards who are more on it.

I mean, Trump then disseminated that by saying, oh, you know, I told them, wait, wait, wait, I want to see. But actually, the interview with Oz, the mentalist who was crouched. under the dais with frump, did not suggest that at all. It said that they both do. By the way, as the Mentalist, he needs to have his mentalist card. taken away, and that was very unfortunate that he didn't see that coming. Very unfortunate. Yeah. It's like whoops, whoops.

I really see everything now. You didn't see this coming. But yeah. But you know that. Would it be an amazing if that's what it was on the piece of paper that he done. Failed to the first. No no no. Yes. Yes. Right. And it says the present there will be an active shooter again. No that would be. Well, you know, Caroline Leavitt, maybe Caroline Leavitt. should take up a career as a mentalist because, you know, earlier in the evening. when she was talking about Trump's plans to. offer some really nasty.

comments about the press, which he kind of indicated he was disappointed. It does anyway. Yeah, he does that anyway. But but but Caroline Leavitt said shots will be fired. Yeah. In with regard to Trump's remarks, which of course. is, you know, maybe that, you know, maybe she saw something. But but I have to say, one of the weird things about this and I'd be interested in your reaction, and I know the people who are listening or watching are interested.

in your reaction is, how many comments do you think are in the various streams. here at the Daily Beast of people saying, was this Oakes? Was this a setup? Yeah. And you know, and I. you know, I mean, I don't there's no evidence to suggest it was a setup. But to go back to your point. about how he responds to Butler and how he responds to this, he responds to these things exactly as you would if it were a setup. Just just as he responded to the Russia stuff in 2016,

he takes maximum advantage. of these things and cynically, you know, squeezes. every juice out of the the crisis orange that he possibly can. And that's why then people you know and nobody trusts him. And so everybody's like, oh no, this is now of course with the Butler thing. You know, there's this weird thing where he's like, I'm shot, but I didn't go to a doctor. There's no doctor's note. I'm wearing this thing in my ear.

There's no blood. All these people at the convention are wearing this thing on the rear. What is that all about? It all seemed weird. And you know Trump's. You know, it's all about the the ballroom. It seems weird. And that's why you've got some perfectly good, smart, intelligent. readers and listeners here at the beast who are like, is is is something fishy going on here? Oh, I'm not I'm not saying you're going.

Well, no, I was going to say that that. that Donald Trump is such an odd character. that almost nothing is beyond. the pale in terms of the possibilities around him. I mean, he's almost like a fictional character. I mean, I happen to believe that that, you know, Thomas Matthew Crooks, who shot him at Butler, Pennsylvania, was a, you know, was a. what was a lone wolf whack job who had a list of people.

that he wanted to shoot to try and get attention to himself. And he was shot dead. So I'm not sure what he would have gotten out of it, other than. a very short lived legacy. But it's impossible. not to entertain the conspiracies, even briefly, because of the nature of of Donald Trump's presidency. That sounds like your dog in the background is barking to agree. He thinks it's a conspiracy. Or perhaps it's a she dog.

It's a he. He's a conspiracy theorist grizzly. I, I don't listen to him, but he is a constant presence. No, I think there's a lot of people out there who, who, who believe that, you know, weird stuff happens around Trump. And you know why they believe it? Because weird stuff happens around Trump. Donald Trump is, we can see it, the most corrupt president in U.S. history. That's not that's an objective fact. He's getting payoffs. His kids are getting payoff.

They're making billions of dollars. You know, the reason that people believe in conspiracy theories around Donald Trump. is that Donald Trump is committing conspiracies actively. You know, there is all this corruption. We see it in front of him. And, you know, we can't unsee it. And, and and he lies about everything. And it was it. During his first term, the Washington Post. had a guy counting his lies, and they came up to like 36,000 lies. He's a pathological liar. And so if you have a guy.

and he's doing backroom deals and he's lying about everything and he's. been, you know, found guilty in courts of fraud. Of course you believe everything that the guy is doing is a conspiracy. And there's an interesting dimension of all this. So I don't know if you saw this, but last night, Norah O'Donnell on 60. minutes did an interview with Trump, and during the interview. she read elements of the Manifesto of Calls manifesto. And in the manifesto it alleged that one of the things that got to him.

was the existence and, you know, of a rapist, a pedophile and a traitor. And Trump got outraged. He said, you're a disgrace. And then in a beautiful gracenote, I thought Norah O'Donnell. said, oh, do you think he meant you? But here's the point. The point is, Donald Trump is trying to wave this stuff away. And we've all seen it. It's just like the corruption. It's just like the lies. This is not the beginning of the story. This is year 11 of this story.

We know that a judge, Louis Kaplan in the Aegean Carol case, when he was summing up the case, said. that the jury verdict in the case. for kind of sexual abuse found that Trump raped Carol. In the common modern understanding of the word, not in the narrow definition of rape as defined by New York State law.

But but we can't hear that. when a judge says that's the conclusion. We've seen the Epstein files. We know that people under oath have asserted Trump did terrible things. We know that there's 20 plus women who have accused him of sexual abuse. We you know, I personally found the comment. about him being a traitor kind of resonant. Because if I turn around here,

oh, yeah, here's here's a, here's a nice volume called traitor, which is a book about people who betrayed the United States, written by me. So. But so, you know, the the point is, Trump, like, tries to waves this stuff away, but. we've seen it and. and and so at this point we don't trust him. And that's why when he gets into this whole cynical mode,

it's so damn nauseating. He speaks out against violence. He's the author of violence. He speaks out against divisiveness and politics. Nobody has more been more divisive in politics. He speaks out against journalists who speak the truth at him. But we know the truth. And and that's why this event, that the event itself, I don't think is that important in the long run. And the history books, it won't be seen as an important event, but it sure does work as a prison.

for so many of the subtext of this moment. of the extraordinary guy. who the whack job lone wolf president who is himself. the biggest criminal in any room he's in, and we know it and we can't unsee it. And, and and that's, you know, that that I think is the takeaway from this weekend.

And now, of course, here you are in England. I don't know why you arrive in England and the King leaves, but now you've got the the is there. a connection there? So the king is coming. to the States for four days on a four day trip. A lot of controversy around the trip. A lot of people in England where I am at the moment saying. he absolutely shouldn't go, this is terrible. Trump has attacked the British prime minister. He's ridiculed the British navy as being essentially a sort of toys.

He's told Keir Starmer, the Labor. prime minister, he's no Winston Churchill, which is true. And a lot of British people are saying he's no Winston Churchill. So a lot of people are saying the king shouldn't go. He's being used as a stooge, but he is being used as astute. And, you know, Stephen Chung, the white House, you know, communications director would call him a cook. Well, wait a minute. He calls you a no name, nothing, though, and he calls me a lying.

I think. I know I, but I think I got elevated to cook. You're a great executive editor. Hugh Daugherty told me that Steven Chung. had elevated me from a no name to a cook, which I felt. I'm making some progress here. We should, by the way. We should come back to the King. But we should make note of the fact that Hugh Dockerty. had the room next to Cole in the Washington Hilton,

and actually wrote something about this for the Daily Beast. I mean, you had somebody right in the middle of it, and he wrote about the fact that the security was super lax, but. nobody was closer to this story than The Daily Beast. Yeah. I mean, an extraordinary moment as Hugh went upstairs. So he and David Gardner, Farah Thomas in Nikko Hines. and Sarah Yule Weiss, Nikko is our global editor. David, Sarah and Farah are based in D.C.

for us, and Hugh runs the show, thank goodness. But they were all in the room, in the dining room when it happened. in the ballroom. And then when Hugh tried to get to go back up to his room. on the 10th floor of the Washington Hilton, he was held back. by FBI officers, not actually Cash Patel. We can come on to cash Patel in a minute. It was looking like he was talking to. someone on his phone, but nobody thinks he was anybody.

The man in America who was, you know, on Saturday morning was about to be fired. And by Saturday night, they couldn't fire him. because he was in the middle of this. But anyway. God. Well, they'll find when they need another distraction. When they. But but Hugh then discovered he couldn't get into his room. because his room was literally next to the. He had the neighboring room of the of the would be assassin. And in fact, Hugh was making the suggestions to the FBI. that he thought might be helpful to them.

Like, you know, would you like to know what time the cleaner came? I didn't see any of my neighbors in the room, but they were like, oh yeah, we should get the law. We should get the cleaning schedule. And then it turned out that three hours. after the guy had tried to, you know, shoot a security officer, they suddenly had the bomb squad up there and you're like, well, probably should have been up there a little earlier. I mean, I guess they get blasé at this event. because there's always the president going, well, for the most part,

unless it's Trump won and it's normally a very good natured event. Well, it is, but I do think the funny story that you told me was that. he went to the FBI guy and said, well, I was in the room next door. Do you want to talk to me? Do you do you have any questions that you want to ask me? I think I was like, oh yeah, that might be a good idea. And you gave him his card? Yeah, really? Well, he wrote a very good piece about it. We should recommend that people read his piece because it was an.

excuse me and. Yeah, and it came up right after the event. It was it was extremely good. And the fact that, you know, you had all these reporters there. and there was all this good coverage in the Daily Beast in real time, factual, great. It was great. But, you know, to get back to the the king coming. because, you know, we have to turn the page at some point. You know, I think all this criticism of the king coming. is exactly right, because I do think the, you know, MAGA would call him a cook. if the weren't for the fact that Donald Trump loves the King.

and he loves the idea of kings, and he likes people who have crowns. and would live in big palaces, and who can't actually say. anything critical to him because the king can't actually do that. And you know the King. The reason I say that, you know, he would be described. as a, as a, as a cook is he's being used. He's being used as a prop by Trump. He's a you know, he's being used to make Trump look statesmanlike. in the middle of a failed war, in a failing economy, an American division.

and falling American standing in the world and insulting England and insulting, you know, our allies around the world, you know, King Charles is going to come. there and is going to go, oh, yes, oh, you're friends. We're friends. And loved your accent of him. Do that one more time. Hello. Hello. Yeah. This is like I'm going to do King. We could do King Charles meeting Melania because you could then be Melania.

It is very nice to meet you, Melania. Good to see you again. Your face never moves. Why is that? I wonder how she's feeling after Saturday. Because we know how furious she was after Butler, Pennsylvania. And also how she wouldn't let Baron be a delegate in the RNC. because she was so concerned for Baron safety. So I'm sure her having the proximity for Melania. to Saturday's event means we'll see even less of her.

Yeah, but maybe her body double or whoever it is. that gets sent to these events when she's making Melania fake Melania. But, I mean, I, I think that King Charles, assuming his health holds out and as we know, he has cancer, which is treatable but not apparently curable. Assuming I'm sure that King Charles thinks he will outlive Trump. and that actually Trump is a blip in the relationship. between Britain and America, it's very important for Britain.

to have good, sound relations with with the US. And Trump has gone after everybody in Europe. It's not Britain. He hasn't singled out Keir Starmer, he's gone after Emmanuel Macron, he's. gone after Pedro Sanchez in Spain, he's gone after George Maloney. He thought he loved her in Italy. Now he's gone after similarly with the Chancellor in Germany. So this is this is Trump flailing with everybody. And actually from the British point of view,

I think it's quite smart that the king comes. The king maintains relations soft power. It's above politics that look, I don't agree. First of all, the king. is meaningless pawn in this whole thing. Secondly, I don't think he is a morning. I don't think he is a meaningless point at all this David Rothkopf. Now, this may be because I'm sitting with my feet firmly on. British soil today, and normally my my feet are on New York soil.

But I actually think that this for Britain, this is sort of. a continuity and, and can. be sophisticated in terms of his relationship. No matter what Donald Trump says, King Charles. will be able to rise above it and you won't rise to the bait. I mean, he does that wonderful thing when he looks off in the middle distance. and just kind of as he did when Trump made his sort of remarks at Windsor Castle. And I'm actually fascinated to know, how is the white House going to compete.

with what happened at Windsor Castle, because you've been to state dinners. at the white House, so have I. They take place in a tent. It's not, it's not it's not going to. I don't know why. You know, this is could be a sort of lovely English. thing about you and that you think that the king still matters because he doesn't. And, you know, I mean, what is the king do? He goes to, like, the opening of a frog crossing in a small road in Staffordshire.

And he cuts a ribbon. You know, the kings don't do anything anymore. So they exist purely to a for symbolism. And Trump is using the symbolism. to suggest healthiness in a US, UK relationship. that isn't healthy, to suggest normalcy. in his behavior when it is abnormal.

to seek a kind of dispensation. for the way he has abused Starmer, the way he is abused, the British Navy, the way he has battered the relationship by saying, see, everything's fine here with the king, but the king is a sock puppet. The king. The king is a toy. He's something that, you know, he doesn't create policy, he doesn't influence policy. And he's being used, you know, when he's used as a symbol.

Because people then turn out to parade because he's going by in a gilded coach. Great. That's good for tourism in England, but he's not actually. being used as a symbol to help the UK here. He's being used as a symbol to undermine the actual government of the UK here. And that's not a good thing, but I'm sure that the King. will have spoken to the Prime Minister, or certainly their, the diplomats that.

run the relationship, inasmuch as anybody does. with the UK and the US, especially after the battle with Peter. Mandelson, the previous ambassador to DC from the UK. who got fired, and now the Prime Minister is in the middle of a terrible quagmire. over that. And it's unclear whether or not he he survives it. But I think you're not giving the King quite enough credit. Actually, I understand that he may lend some of his prestige brand.

to Donald Trump in this particular moment, but I think the King is looking. to a longer relationship with America, and Donald Trump is a blip. And sometimes you have to suck it up. Look, I hope you're right. And I think that that's, you know, a lovely sentiment, but I don't think that's how. Donald Trump looks at it. I think Donald Trump looks at it by saying, see, here is a king. who thinks I am a king who is treating me like a king who treated me like a king,

who sees me as a statesman who's not talking to me. about all this stuff that I hate talking about. Now, I have to say, one of the things that the King is bringing over in his luggage, for which I'm sure there's all sorts of footmen carrying the luggage. He's never touched a piece of luggage, but one of the things that the King. is bringing over in his luggage is his brother and the Epstein scandal. And you talk about Mandelson, and there will be the king.

Charles will not get within ten feet of a reporter. who does not want to ask him a question about Epstein. And there will be. a hundred stories about Epstein because of the Prince Andrew connection. and because of the Mandelson connection that will follow this visit. And it will once again prove that no matter what Donald Trump does. to try to change the subject, he can't, that Epstein's not going away. well, and King Charles can say, well, I'm afraid I can't say anything about it.

because it's under review by the police, which will show that it's true. But Stein files more seriously than the US. Maybe, but yes. And that his brother is no longer a prince. And everybody will think of the image of his brother in the back seat of the car. that was snapped by that photographer, where he looks like he is just, you know, seen something horrible and he's in complete mental disorder.

and they'll know that, you know, the reason Peter Mandelson was recommended. for this job originally started with Prince Andrew. They'll know that this is all tied into Epstein at some level. And so, you know, if Donald Trump thinks it's going to change the subject, it's. not just like if Donald Trump thinks holding a press conference. in a tuxedo on a Saturday night is going to change the subject from Iran. when this war is raging and when the world doesn't know whether. the price of oil is going up or down, he's wrong.

It's not going to make all of this go away. And you know this story. I think this weekend story is going to get a lot of play, because there were so many journalists there for whom they will, you know, for whom this was a big event. And they can talk about it. in a first person sense, but it was actually meaningless. It won't change the subject. And tomorrow or next week when you and I get together for this conversation again, what's going to happen? We'll be talking about Iran. We'll be talking about Epstein, we'll be talking about Trump's corruption.

We'll be talking about his mismanagement of the government. We'll be talking about the next unexpected crisis that is caused. by the fact that he is a lone wolf whack job. And, you know, the momentary grace that he gets out of, you know, Butler 2.0, the mini version is just not going to last. So we had a piece on the beast that said, people are calling. for the head of Susie Wiles, that the Secret Service report to Susie Wiles.

and that this is ultimately her responsibility. What do we think of that? Seems very hard to fire someone when they're undergoing. treatment for cancer. It does indeed. I saw that piece. I was quite interested in that piece. I had not heard those kind of rumors. The rumors I hear are Cash Patel is next, or Tulsi. Gabbard has been given her marching orders. Things you've also covered. But I think you know there are other people I would expect to leave soon.

And blaming Susie Wiles for, you know, you know, the mistakes made by the Secret Service, such as those in Butler. when Trump wasn't the president, she wasn't responsible. for the Secret Service are also you know, it's also kind of far fetched to me. I do think we should remember something corollary to this, though. The Secret Service budget has been cut by Elon Musk,

the number of Secret Service agents has been reduced not just by Len Musk, but. because a bunch of them were forced out who did not sort of. see the world on January 6th the same way that Trump did. The people who Trump is elevated within the Secret Service, or people who, and some of them is elevated out of the Secret Service and into his inner circle, are people who actually have participated. in the cover up of January 6th.

Remember that there were all these Secret Service text messages. that took place on January 6th, and they all disappeared. So Trump's Secret Service has been under a cloud since day one. His relationships with certain people in it have been under a cloud. He has undercut the Secret Service with budgeting. and with other kinds of Elon things. And so it's really hard to say that they would blame Susie, while with one. exception, which I think you mentioned to me, and some text exchange we had,

which is she's a woman and he seems to like firing women. Well, first three people to be fired from his cabinet were women. So what happens to Cash Patel here, do we think? I mean, he's now launched his own $250 million lawsuit against the Atlantic, who ran a piece last week saying that he allegedly was drunk on duty. And apparently, since he's filed his suit, more people have come forward.

from the FBI to say that they will. corroborate the piece in the Atlantic, saying that there are deep concerns. about his behavior on the job. Cash Patel is a dead man walking. He's out of the job. Whether he gets fired this week or next week or in a month, it's unclear. Trump does not like these kind of stories, and Trump knows full well.

that the Atlantic, which is well funded, has batteries of lawyers would not, under. any circumstances have run this story if they couldn't back it up. And, you know, Cash Patel does not want to get into a court. battle discovery testimony under oath about all the instances. in his life in which people have questioned his judgment. And so it's just, you know, he he he has an ugly blip.

You know, the first person to speak. following the shooting on Saturday night or the events on Saturday. night was Todd Blanche, the attorney general. Cash, you know, was given a bit of a mini soundbite in there, but he was kind of on and off the stage pretty quickly. And so I would expect he will go soon. I will expect that, you know, some some other Trump. loyalist will be given that kind of job.

We should remember that his deputy quit months ago. That putting cash Patel. Right. Kept putting. Cash. Patel in charge of the FBI has been a fiasco. And as we talked about the people I know in the FBI, demoralized. They're angry. They think he's a dangerous man. And if the longer cash Patel is in this job,

the more leaks there will be, because, you know, and this is this is something we've talked about in the past, a lot of the guardrails in Washington have failed. the congressional oversight, the Supreme Court, Trump's gotten rid of, you know, people in the government who could be a problem. He's gotten rid of inspectors general. But there's one guardrail that is impenetrable, and that is people in the government leaking to the press.

And we have seen it again and again and again. We had people in the military saying. just a week ago to the Wall Street Journal. that Trump was not allowed in the room, the command center, during the rescue of this Air Force. officer who was down behind. enemy lines in Iran. You know, most people think, well, that's a horrible story,

you know, that doesn't reflect on Trump, but what they don't think is where did it come from? And and this is the power of Washington. Every single person in Washington knows a journalist. Every single person in Washington knows that they can make a call. And so every single person in Washington, weirdly, the the high and the low. And this is where some of the stories about the deep state come out. They all have power.

They all have cell phones, they all have recordings. They all can undermine their boss. And I've seen it when I was in the government, I saw it. I, I remember I had a colleague who made a trip. and he made people on the trip stay up late at night working. And he was really angering all of them. And the next thing you know, there was a story in the Washington Post. about what kind of cars he was having drive him around in Singapore. And it was like, wait, what's that? But it was some fifth level person at an embassy.

who knew that they could call the Washington Post. and leak the story and make this guy's life a living hell. And so that's what's in cash Patels future. Trump knows it, Susie Wiles knows it. And that's why Cash Patel is in a great position. to be the first guy who gets fired. This time around. Well interesting analysis. So this is a huge distraction from what the real issues are.

The war in Iran, the economy. Epstein, as you said earlier, ice Mark Wayne Mullin, don't forget RFK Jr and our war on science. They're a lot there, a lot of very, very serious issues going on here. But for mega, for Republicans, the most serious issue is that Trump is in the worst place he's been in the polls. This term is below in many rankings where he was last term. He's at some historic lows in terms of his rankings.

And what every polls suggest is that. he will lose the House and that he may lose the Senate. And frankly, we're just almost six months away from the election. And, you know, all other stories in Washington. get pushed into the background when you are that close to. what is very likely to be a wave election. and a historic shift in who's in power in Washington.

And as we've talked about it, the Democrats, you know, they're not taking anything for granted, nor should they, but they're already planning, you know, what kind of investigations will we run into Trump? And should we impeach Trump or should we not impeach Trump. and all that stuff because they know that starts. that's it's just months away before that could happen. And of course, you know, before that we could have battles over who can vote. and who isn't voting and, and, and rigging the elections and so forth. But that story is occupying a huge percentage.

of the bandwidth of everybody in and around Trump right now. Oh, David Rothkopf, I was hoping that we would. Well, I guess that is a hopeful note, actually, isn't it? Democracy running. It's lumpy course and possibly. a change of of Congress and Senate. That is that is the way it's supposed to go. People vote someone in, they decide they don't like them.

They vote someone else in, as we've said before, and picking up on the metaphor. with regard to Cash Patel, Donald Trump politically, is a dead man walking. Frankly, I don't think he looks so good either. I think he looked exhausted and, and and, you know, just barely able to keep himself together. And he fell down bringing himself off the stage during this whole thing. I think he's a mess physically. But quite apart from that, the Trump era.

MAGA era is coming to a close. It is a dead certainty. And I don't know, you know, Trump's not ready for it. Meg is not ready for it. The Republicans don't have anybody to pick up and lead next. The Democrats don't really have anybody clearly to pick up and lead next. And and I think that's going to be the next. big story is what do we do now that Trump is over? What I would like is for Laura Luma.

to swivel her not inconsiderable attentions onto. Why was JD Vance led off the stage before the president? That, to me needs to be answered. And I would like Laura, if you're if you're listening or anybody. out there listening who could convey this to Laura, Luma, Laura Loomer, when she's focused on something, can get, as they say, shit done. I would like to know why JD Vance was led off the stage.

before Donald Trump, and I bet Donald Trump would like to know that, too. Yeah, what? Laura Loomer is kind of one of Trump's work wives, and, you know, she does stuff for him in this sphere and maybe she will. But, you know, I think JD Mance is also a story that is over. JD Vance makes, you know, Mike pence look like a combination of Daniel Webster. and George Washington is a loser of the First Order. and everybody knows it, which is why Trump and everybody else is like,

hey, Marco doesn't look so bad to me. Although I love that. I saw a bunch of things about that over the weekend. To like, Marco is going to be the guy and it's like, oh yeah, the secretary of state in charge. of the Iran war, in charge of blowing up. NATO, in charge of ending USAID and killing 14 million people. That guy is going to be the Republican candidate. Bring it on. Bring bring it on. And you mentioned Mike pence in your in your column, which I really urge.

everybody to read, because it was so profound about. who is the lone wolf wet job here. But of course, Mike pence, who was slavishly loyal for three years. and 364 days until they got to the point where literally. they were chanting hang Mike pence, hang Mike pence. That was what he got for being loyal to Trump. There is no such thing Trump as returned loyalty there, right?

And Trump, the man who condemns political violence, never really condemned that. He said. Can you blame them? Which is why not? The pants didn't shake his hand at Jimmy Carter's funeral, refused to engage with them. Well, I think that's exactly it's exactly right. But, you know, I think if you boil it all down, you know, this whole conversation today, the. the headline is Donald Trump is the real lone wolf whack job.

David Rothkopf, as. always, you've got such insight, and you bring. a lot of experience to these conversations, having lived in Washington as long as you have. And I'm very sorry that we didn't get to have the lunch. that we had planned on some day because I had to rush away. But I'm looking forward to when I get back to the States. Well, I hope all your business at home is taking care of.

as well as possible, and that your family and the medical emergency. has dealt with as well as possible, and that you come home soon. And then we get you down to Washington and we will treat you well. And, you know, one of these days you're going to have to start doing. some of these Daily Beast live events so people can see you. and talk to you and ask you questions, because I think they would love that. Well, I would love to do that. Let me get through the the initial phase here. But. I think too.

that Trump is going to re or they're going to reschedule. the white House Correspondents dinner somewhere there. Goodness knows where they're going to hold. Sure hope they do. I doubt that's going to happen. First, I think he's got a whole speech that he wants to use to target the press, which he was disappointed not to be able to use. So he's going to have to who knows a place to do it. That's that event is not happening again. Well, at least perhaps not at the Washington Hilton. David, great to see you and more to come.

We'll be back next Monday. God willing. And I will look forward to seeing what happens in the seven days. between now and men. Who knows? Safe travels and best wishes to your family. Thank you. So the. good news is we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team Devin, Roger Reno, Ryan Murray,

Rachel Passer, Heather Pesaro, Neil Rosenhaus.