Why Trump Can't Escape Epstein Forever: Wolff | Inside Trump's Head

Nothing is going on besides Venezuela at this point. This is a monster development in the Trump political life. But Epstein, it never goes away. It always comes back. I mean, I think the question to ask right now is what's the status of the. what were the remaining the 5 million other documents. that have not been released? Michael Cohen, a Cole's.

Could it be. Oh, God. Should we remind people who we are? I'm very conscious that lots of new people, join us every week, and we never really tell them what we're doing or who we are. I'm John Nichols from the Daily Beast, and we're two old friends. who now find ourselves like perhaps old, old friends as a podcasting team, possibly. And again this morning I woke up having had a calmer period, perhaps because of the holidays and a slight break,

waking up thinking, oh God, are we slipping into an autocracy? Is this all slipping away from us? Is this the moment when we should all be in the streets and, well, no. And I, curiously, I woke up thinking exactly the same thing. I woke up thinking, thinking. Wait a minute. There. There is not the proper response to this. I mean, this is going off the rails, off the rails.

on a daily basis, even more off the rails than we thought it was going. Right. We've now invaded another country. We're talking about invading other countries. We've had this remarkable statement from Stephen Miller, arguably the second most important person in the white House, which is, in any language, thinly veiled fascism. And what are we doing besides doing a podcast? Where are,

where are the the people in the street? Well, and also, we had the terrible ice. There actually are people in the street, but they're getting shot. Yes. Right, right. So. So we had that and we want to come on and talk about that. And Christie names weird obfuscation. and blaming the victim as being a domestic terrorist. When in fact she seemed to be, a very normal, much loved mom who, you know, says on her social media she loves poetry and music.

But we're going where we are at that point. And within this could have been this not, I'm sure has been predicted, but it certainly is predictable that this paramilitary police force. flooding American cities would harm somebody. I mean, physically harm somebody shoots someone rather in cold blood, it seems. Well, and you see the pictures of it. and the videos are going absolutely everywhere. And all I could think of was, China and Russia must just be sitting, rocking back and forth laughing at this.

because this is what they want for America. They sort of slowed. Well, it's not even that slow. What feels like a disintegration of American culture. And of course, it's not as bad as the 1960s. One has to remember that, but nevertheless, it feels on it. It does feel unstable. I when I'm considering your last statement, it's not as bad. as the as the as the 1960s. You might remember the 60s better than me.

Whatever. What was going on actually, in in the 1960s. was a response to a government out of control. But it was a response, I mean, a clear response. And in fact, it brought the end of that, of that government. Nothing like that is happening now. Where is the response? Certainly what this government is, is doing begins to rival what the government. in the 1960s was doing. And,

and where is everybody? Hello. Well, and also in the 60s, the movement was towards progress. What's so scary here is this this sense of a movement. towards something which is much, much darker. And, this may be my conspiracy theorist coming out, but I believe it's driven. largely by bad actors abroad in China and Russia. But. But you've written a very good Substack, this morning,

which I just want to alert people to, I don't know if you've published it yet, but you sent it ahead of time to me about Stephen Miller, who, as you say, is rapidly becoming the second most important person in the white House. And there is a little bit that I wanted to read, from it again. I'm reading your own words, too. Is there anything a writer likes more? I can't believe we're starting off the new year with me being so toadying. Maybe. Maybe I am. Maybe I'm thinking something horrify that. There is nothing.

The only thing, actually, that a writer likes more is is the writer reading his own words. Okay, well, I'm going to read your own words here. But but this is from, from your Substack, which I think goes up later today. You can't spend five minutes with Miller, Stephen Miller. and not understand there is something wrong with him. Some point on the spectrum where he dwells alone. Indeed. You can't watch him in a television interview. He looks like no one else who is allowed before.

a camera without seeing the psycho pathology. He's really out there and he's not with anyone else, and it's so ominous and so dark. And he is so peculiarly. He has this kind of featureless face. He literally looks like Voldemort from the Harry Potter movies, who, again, has no features. When you see his face, it's all sunken into himself. It's very, very strange, you know, and we we've seen and actually.

Stephen Miller kind of traces the whole the whole Trump continuum here. He came into the Trump White House in 2017. as actually kind of Steve Bannon's joke. And Steve. Bannon was, was, was and, you know, and I spoke at length to Bannon. during this time and even about Stephen Miller, who he treated as a joke. But it was his kind of joke on the normies in the white House. We really are like this, he would say,

although Bannon never saw himself really like this. And I remember once he took me into, to see, to see Miller. and and and Bannon said. big and Bannon was certainly aware of everyone calling him a fascist. And then he he said about Miller, now, this really is a fascist. And, you know, and I spent a lot of time with Miller. and I thought, oh my God, Jesus, this is this is one weird guy.

You know, he didn't. can't meet you at camp, can't look you in the eyes, and then he would just recite these things, and he just. You just wanted to get out of there. And then I, I came, came out and Bannon said, you see, and then he says, and then he says, kind of he said, Goebbels. Oh, right. I mean, just very frightening. But that was at that moment when, as I say, he was a joke. Everyone kind of was aware. Even Trump called him crazy. Steven.

But then over the course of this, of this, of this time, now, what, nine years? He has risen, everybody else has fallen by the wayside. And there is Stephen Miller, the most peculiar person. in the first Trump White House, now the central person, the second most important person in the Trump White House. They are there. He is this, this cuckoo bird, but a cuckoo bird who is who is,

determined, cruel, obsessional, and dangerous. What what is his driving ideology? Why is he so angry? He grew up in a perfectly nice home in Santa Monica in California. I mean, what is what? What the hell is his problem? Well, who knows? You know, you become obsessional for all kinds of kinds of reasons. I mean, his obsession is brown people.

It's, a, a country. that he envisions in, in one way that has lost its way. And he demands a, a. new purity and force and power. I mean, that that the statement that he released. was that yesterday or the day before about about. I think this was he was referencing Greenland. So you refer to this in your, in your Substack. and I'm going to read that paragraph.

Now, of course, the junior aide has become the singular. survivor of Trump's rise, fall and comeback. The fundamental architect of the second Trump administration. and its clearest voice as off the beam as ever. Now I'm quoting him. We live in a world in which you can talk all you want. about international niceties and everything else. But we live in a world in the world that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power.

Okay. So that's you can just see that that was the pre-World War two view. And, and necessarily the German view. of, of of, of. of foreign policy, of international life, of, of the relationship. of one powerful country to other weaker countries. And that was the view that since the end of the Second World War. has been wholly revised by America leading the way,

but obviously other European countries and the success, the historical success of. of all of these years. of relative and I emphasize relative peace. Certainly the the absence of World War. was the central accomplishment of undoing precisely that view. Well, it's back again. Well, it's back again.

And yet the countries we're taking on Greenland, Venezuela are not. the other superpowers. I mean, it seems. like we're we're aiming at very small fry here. I mean, Greenland, we already have access to. Agree. But remember, I mean, I, you know, I, I hesitate to make these parallels to direct, but when Germany took on other countries, they too were the weaker countries. It then overstayed and took on other, you know. Yeah.

It screwed itself up by taking on stronger countries. But but but Poland, the, the, the Netherlands and and one country. after another were, easy prey. Well, what's going on in Minneapolis is very concerning. The Ice agent who shot three times, the poor woman in her minivan. who was trying to get out of what looked like. a very complicated situation, not a professional agitator.

And, of course, Donald Trump has issued on Truth Social, his version of events, which I was going to read and get your opinion of. So this is from from our president. I've just viewed the clip of the event. There were many clips of the event because so many people. were filming it, which took place in Minneapolis, Minnesota. So it is a horrible thing to watch. The woman screaming was obviously a professional agitator, and the woman driving the car was very disorderly, obstructing and resisting, who then violently, willfully and viciously.

ran over the ice officer who seems to have shot her in self-defense. Based on the attached clip, it is hard to believe. he is alive, but is now recovering in the hospital. I mean, what's so fascinating is that's not what the clip shows. That's not what any of the clips show. I mean, we we are at that at that. at that point, it's not only about not assuming responsibility. It's not only about a question of what happen is direct, outright lies,

which is that we've been at that point for some time, but this is now in this, in this mortal situation. I mean, we have this, this paramilitary. internal police force who can do no wrong. Well, and also, it's that thing where the president tells. you something which you can see yourself isn't true. Which reminds me of when he was saying, oh, the crowds were so huge. for his first inauguration, when we could see the pictures of the crowds.

and they weren't huge, the vast, vast areas where there was no one. Well, you know, that's an this is an interesting thing. And if we go back to the 1960s, there was something called the credibility gap. In which you would, the government was undermined. because it kept putting out reports on the, the killings in Vietnam, that we were winning the war when we were losing the war.

And that undermined the government. Now that compare that to now into the Trump years, when credibility, his credibility has never been a president's. credibility has never been weaker and the lies more transparent. And yet it has not undermined him quite the opposite. It has strengthened him by the fact that he can so. shamelessly, so stubbornly, so,

boldly insists that his. version of reality is is true. It's confounding. Well, that leads me to an interesting picture in the New York Times today. They're sitting down there, political reporters sit down to interview him. And I don't know if we can show the picture. I think we can, but it's Donald Trump behind his desk. And then there are five reporters in a semicircle around him.

And it reminded me of one of those pictures. You see, when there is a violent criminal in a courtroom and they're being escorted. by 5 or 6 guards who look as if they only the might of the. 5 or 6 of them will be able to contain this superhuman violence criminal. I saw it as I was. I would look for a reach for a different metaphor there. They all look like, like like dogs waiting for a bone.

Well, well, I'm he's he's the master. And they're they sit at his feet. I found it kind of kind of a. Kind of an, distressing picture. I thought it was. I thought it was. Well, first of all, I'm envious that they've got five reporters to send in, because we certainly wouldn't have five reporters descended from the Daily Beast. I thought for him, it must be almost the apex of his career. that he's sitting behind the desk. And who's listening to him? Five reporters from the New York Times, which we know he's obsessed.

by, Steven Chung, are his. And why would you need five reporters? Actually, actually, since someone is running a tape recorder here. Right, right. I've I've absolutely no idea, but but it sort of looked like. he must be just, you know, at some point is going to say they sent five reporters, five reporters, not one, five reporters to talk to me because he's so important. And to me, it looks like they had five of them. because they knew they were going to be lied to.

And so they wanted other people to check it with. But but it was a bizarre, bizarre picture. It's this is not a, anyway, it's it's, they have a tape recorder. Well, they have five tape recorders. All the thing that then confused well, didn't confuse me. I might have expected this, but, but it's another, I'm. a bit of this whole paradigm between Trump and the media. Is that. Is that so? The interview, or at least the portions of the interview.

that they covered today were about Venezuela, and then questioning Trump about the, the reasons for this, for this, for this invasion and most of all, what we are going to do with this country. now that we theoretically have taken over, but we haven't exactly taken over. But they keep announcing, we have taken over. Well, he's announced he's running it. Right. Well, someone else who's in charge and he said, I'm in charge.

I'm in charge. Right. But there's no real, real, the underpinnings of. how he is going to be in charge, what he intends to accomplish, being in charge, all that was missing from this, all of that. He didn't know. He couldn't say. He wasn't going to say yet. He would say some times may be, and then, and this was all treated as in the course of business. This is this was the trump this is what this is the Trump position,

the Trump White House position that they've taken over the country. But, but they're not going to tell anyone what, what to do about it. And, The New York Times has rendered this. I mean, maybe they think that they're. rendering this in some kind of deadpan language, and, and readers. will draw their own conclusions, which they obviously obviously they will. But it also creates that other effect. The other effect. Oh, that this is normal.

We are not saying, and partly because the New York Times doesn't. have the language to say, hey, this is batshit, this is absurd. It's ridiculous. It makes no sense. You made it up as you went along. You stood up there on the platform, and when someone said, who's in charge? You said, we're going to run it. And that was clearly the first Marco Rubio ever heard of it. And then you have Stephen Miller, like a ghoul standing behind Marco Rubio. How does Stephen Miller get on with Pete Hegseth and Marco Rubio?

Well, I don't think Stephen Miller. gets along with anyone because he is way out on the spectrum. So the idea he can't really talk to anyone else. I mean, he's he's. you know, he has deep social problems. You can't sit down and have a beer with Stephen Miller. But even on the new Mar-A-Lago white House patio, even on. Because it's exactly for that. Yeah. No. And there's something wrong with it.

He is a broken person. Well, he's having a fourth baby with his wife, Katie Miller, who does a podcast where she similarly. I mean, you refer to him as gerbils or you said that, Steve Bannon referred to him as gerbils. And Katie Miller is putting out sort of state sponsored propaganda. by interviewing all the top Republicans, all all Trump's henchmen. What was gerbils wife's name? Was it Marla gerbils? Magda, Magda Gerber, which sounds a lot like MAGA.

Indeed it does. So we've got our version of Magda Katie interviewing Hex, Seth and his wife Mike Johnson and his wife, JD Vance. I mean, it should not reference what happened to those children. No, we shouldn't reference it. But if you haven't watched The Downfall, which is about the last week of Adolf Hitler and his group, you really should. It's an amazingly good movie to do. Watch The Downfall and I mean amazing.

Totally. The other, the other film that's worth watching. And while we're on it, is. The Life of Others about East Germany and an East German spy. Did you ever see that two very good movies about what's going on right now? The downfall is a perfect movie to watch right now. So much to discuss. What did you have for breakfast this morning, Michael? Was it top of the food pyramid? Well, it used to be on the top of the food pyramid.

You know, the food pyramid has been turned upside down now, so I guess in an, in an RFK. world, you wake up and have, you have steak and eggs, and then you smother yourself with beef tallow. Yes. And testosterone. I myself had, had oatmeal for porridge, as you say. Yeah. Porridge. I don't think that's very good for you, though, does it? Does it feel you through comfortably through lunch?

Yes. Well, it used to be. That's what you were supposed to have. That was high fiber. And fiber is what, what, what kept you full? Well, now they're saying it's just so much. You need much more protein. So good news. We can have steak and eggs for breakfast. I want as Murdoch what he had for breakfast. And he said that he had every morning, so I am, but, you know, I, I, you know, just a bowl of porridge.

And then he said, a horse needs it's chaff. What a great line. A horse needs a chef. Well, not according to RFK doesn't. So he's, you know, obstructing. the vaccine stuff, or throwing the vaccine, rollbacks to the MAGA base and then playing to the rest of us. by saying that we can smother ourselves in beef tallow. But let's let's move this. So we have Stephen Stephen Miller, who I think I would certainly argue,

and I think you can easily make the argument is, is a crazy person. A person who, whose presence in public life is inexplicable. How can you have RFK Jr equally. and it's slightly crazy, his, his presence in public life. And, you know, he's 72 years old. And for most of his life as a Kennedy, he was kind of. precluded from public life because everybody knew RFK Jr.

He's the crazy one. And here he is in a pivotal role in this government. Pivotal. And, and as we have said before, and I think we should keep repeating. these, someone not notice who is running for president in 2028. Well, Stephen Miller won't be running for president, right, because he has absolutely no popular appeal whatsoever. But RFK junior does have some kind of popular appeal.

He's a Kennedy. He's got. hey, hey, I mean, he does I mean, it's hard to figure out what the popular appeal. is other than the fact that he is named Kennedy. I mean, that's exclusively, and, yeah. Do you do you see any other point of appeal here? No, but but I'm struck by the fact that women find him attractive, actually. I mean, he's so peculiar. His face is like a sort of razor.

Attractive because he's a Kennedy. Yeah. I guess if you put him in, you know, the I mean, the old thing, you know, you know, when when, you know, Teddy Kennedy, remember, you know, with his. and everybody said said, I mean, there was a famous line, if his name were his name was Edward Moore Kennedy. If it if he was just Edward Moore, he would not have. been able to, I think just would have been, by the side of the road. Yeah. Well, it's it's super alarming.

It's super alarming that we've got two crazy people in there and there. And of course, they're. they're not the only crazy people because the president is crazy. He's absolutely nuts. I know. Well, I think that that's one one of the things as over. the course of this, of this Trump era, as the normies have fallen by the side because Trump is crazy. None of these people, I mean, you know, and everybody, everybody makes. this kind of negotiation with themselves when they go to work for, for,

for a politician, all politicians are a little crazy, but I can help restrain this. I can, yeah. You know, at some at some. There's some there's some level that we're going to reach. That's, that's, that's manageable or acceptable. Well, this never happened with, with Trump and all of the normies. We're we're washed out, leaving. only the, the strange people, the peculiar people, the toadies, the lackeys, the the bottom of the barrel.

Yeah. Well, I did a very fun interview with Seth Moulton on the Daily Beast. podcast this week, and he was talking about. how it's essential that in the Democratic Party, the older leaders. now let go of the torch of power and pass it to a new generation. And this morning came the news that, how do we pronounce this? You will know better than me. Steny Hoyer from Maryland, Congressman who is 86 years old, is stepping down.

He's stepping down voluntarily stepping down. It's just unfathomable. No, nowhere else would this be allowed. You didn't know if any industry where someone is allowed. to stay that length of time, unless they run the company, unless they started the company. It's crazy, Berkshire Hathaway, but, well, yeah, as I said, founded the company. So that's slightly different. If you found the company, you can do it. I guess people he can argue, well, people voted for me, which is.

Which is fair enough, but, it does feel very mean. Yeah, but, you know, on an individual basis. that seems that seems you can explain that and that's that's understandable. I mean, the problem with the Democrats. is that became on an institutional basis, right. So, you know, I mean, Steny Hoyer, I mean, he has a long, respectable, enviable record.

And he doesn't seem to be suffering from dementia like some of his colleagues. But in, in general, the tolerance for that in, in this has to do. with a lot of institutional, a lot of structural factors. I mean, once you're a Congress, your your in Congress. And this is increasingly, increasingly true, there's no competition. You are it's a job. It's a job for life. And that's, that's clearly, clearly a problem.

And that's clearly because of the Democrats long success up. until the Trump years that they've, they've, they've they've institutionalized their own success. And that means institutionalizing people. who inevitably got older and, and too old, right. And calcified, calcified in the roles. Yeah. The interesting thing about about Seth, the Seth Moulton is that he's a Maga favorite.

Bannon was always talking up, Seth. Seth Moulton so that's a it's a, Well, I think he's prepared to work across the parties. Right. And he's a moderate. The establishment, the Democratic establishment. don't like him because he won't wait in line. And he's a man on a mission, I think. I mean, yeah, he hasn't that mission hasn't really gotten him too far.

yet, but, Well, it's been incredibly curious it be curious to see. And he said he represents that other, that side of the. Democratic Party, which, which a lot of people have high hopes for, which is which is former military people in, in the Democratic Party. And that's a, that's a, that's. that's not necessarily in intuitive position. Right. Because the Democratic Party has been for,

for a long time, the, the party that has stood against them, against the military. The military is a deeply conservative force in American life. And, well, and it represents. the opposite of community organizers and activists, which, now, you know, throwing up candidates or, and Mamdani being one. And, of course, Barack Obama was a community organizer,

before he became president. You say that you say that with distaste. Not saying it with distaste. It's completely the opposite to the military. You're completely right. But Seth Moulton struck me as energetic. He's taking on Ed Markey, very popular senator in Massachusetts, who nevertheless is 79. You were wowed by a politician. I was I was. I was excited I politicians, I was excited. This happened to me many times.

And let me just say it's always a mistake. Well, it may be a mistake, but what was nice are very good in person. I mean, a lot of very good community. They're not all very good to me in person. One variety of politicians, they turn, they they train, they. they look you in the eye. They treat you like you're the most important person. Okay. So I'm going to put I'm going to push back on you on that. because you have frequently said to me, as you've met many politicians. and you and I have discussed both on and off the podcast,

who are going to be likely candidates for the Democrats in 2028. There is a difference between politicians who can speak normally and politicians. who unfortunately, like Hillary Clinton when she ran for president. and like Kamala Harris, speak in policy paragraphs. And you can't get into kind of any sense of the human being in there, and you know what? But but there's but there's actually then a further a further distinction. There are those people, politicians who in person and you go, wow, you know,

this is a really interesting person like Hillary Clinton. And then they get up on a stage and they go, and they go, did they talk? And actually, Seth Moulton in, in a public setting is no, you know, he's not Mr. Charisma. Well, that may be true, but at least I would urge people. to watch the podcast, make their own opinion. But I thought it was exhilarating to talk to someone who was able. to speak normally about what's going on.

Okay. Well, we'll see Seth's numbers. And you know what? We got so many comments on your disagreeing with Mark Kelly. In fact, I would say the majority of the thousands of comments we got on. our last podcast were disagreeing with you fervently about, you're agreeing with Pete Hegseth. What? The secretary of defense. Let's let's go there and let me let me double down.

But first, oh my God, you're getting all Trump. Kill me. You are getting Trump by double downing for first. First. I don't in any way think that, that Kelly. should be penalized for anything that he said here. I think he had a perfectly right, perfect right to say, to say, whatever he wanted to say. And in this instance that, you know, he was making. a, you know, a broad state.

I mean, it was a broad objection to, to, to Donald Trump. And I think it was right. And it was all for but on the specific point. in which he is openly, openly advocating that. American military personnel, disregard orders or, or disregard. illegal, it is within their purview.

to disregard and, what they might believe is an illegal order, which is a is really not true. B is is. you know, is. is certainly is certainly, ridiculous. And from the point of view, who's from someone who had a command role. in, in the armed forces would not be something that person, Kelly. in this case would have believed when he was in that role.

So it was just a it was just agitprop. It didn't mean anything. And, and I think it should have been treated. as something that didn't mean anything, and who cares? But, on this, on the merits, he is flat out wrong. Okay, well, I can I can see another 2000 comments. coming on, coming in on this alone. And of course, I think what people were very mindful of was Trump's overreaction.

to it, because in a sense, as you say, it's agitprop. and they're playing a game and it's performative. And Trump said, well, he should be executed. This is seditious. It should be. And in that sense, by the way, it works for everybody. Kelly's profile is elevated. Trump has an enemy. Everybody is playing everybody else's game here. And I suppose more power to them. But, less power to him if he ends up. getting his pension cut and his status revoked. In the military, I mean, hexes stored.

in the stored in the, in the in the Democratic administration. We're just this is not none of this is real. None of this is substantive. None of this. None of this counts. But it's hard to think of a better public servant than Mark Kelly, who's, you know, served his country. His wife was shot 15 years ago, actually, this week, famously, Gabby Giffords, an amazing congresswoman. And and the two of them have worked diligently.

to try and restrict access to guns so that this doesn't happen again. It seems completely, you know, someone. you would want to elect and and also flexing his muscles for 2028? Yeah, sure. I mean, I'm just saying on the merits of the thing that people in the United States. military should not do not and should not have each individually have. the discretion to decide which order.

they are going to obey and which they are not. This is pretty basic. Well, yes and yes. In Nuremberg, like situations, they're going to have to make a choice. but to cast any, in in any sense that Nuremberg. like decision making occurs on a frequent. basis is again, ridiculous.

Okay. And back to our German analogy. All right. So what else is going on? I know you were concerned about this group club. America, which is the teenage version of Turning Point. Club America is now being rolled out, in high. schools, and it's an offshoot of Charlie Kirk's Turning Point America. And it's causing all sorts of drama in schools. Because it's encouraging, I guess far right values or what they would say.

A I mean, I just I mean, here's something that seems. that seems patently. something we don't want is let's let's politicize high school. I mean, of all of the other problems you have in high school. now, we're adding, we're adding right, left, whatever. I mean, this, but I was thinking back to when I was at high school where I was. shamelessly a member of the Young Conservatives. because they had better parties and then briefly, a member of Young Labor.

because they seemed to have better ideas. Were you never a member of a political party, high school or a university? No, no, no, this was, well, it was actually when I was at high school, but it was outside of the school, so it wasn't school sponsored, but I was a member of the local ones because I was interested in politics, and B, I wanted a social life beyond school, and they were sort of interesting people, and they had good parties, and local politicians would come and talk.

Did you not do any of that? You were probably too busy growing your hair and smoking weed. I didn't do this to drugs. And then when I was going high school work and doing. school work, I don't even remember doing any school work. I read a few Shakespeare plays which have stood me in good stead. I would urge every school student to do that, but club America seems a somewhat. ominous development, and it's clearly causing problems for certain principles. in schools where the parents are now using it as a political tug of war.

Yeah. No, I would say in, in, in general. And this is also, I think from, from, from the left as well as the right, let's, you know, let's get politics out of high school. Maybe they should send. Eric Kirk round to do a high school tour in the way that Tony Dokoupil from CBS. is doing a, a tour of somewhat, it seems, random cities. Erica Kirk could start doing the high school tour. J.D. Vance could join her. Well, I mean, that's I mean, you know, Charlie Kirk, the growth of Turning Point.

USA is partly because Charlie Kirk did these did these college tours. What else is going on? I tell you what isn't going on or what I feel isn't going on, which I'm concerned about is really diligent, dogged. research of people going through the Epstein files. I mean, I mean, we're in this thing first thing where where. nothing is going on besides Venezuela at this point. I mean, this is a, a monster.

development in the in the Trump political life. And in, in, I would say the most significant development in the, in the, in the second term so far. I mean, he has done what he always manages to do, which is. to change the subject through a reorder, a fundamental reordering. of the of the narrative of the drama that we're living in.

And we have now, we're we're now invading. We've invaded this country, were set to invade other countries. It is hard to focus on anything else. so that one can make the argument, certainly that we should, because we're not really doing any of these things. But that's another, another, the, the, the Trump mirror and the Trump. and the Trump illusion, but which, which works. but Epstein and and the thing about Epstein.

and we might trust this is that it never goes away. It always comes back. And, there are. I mean, I think the question to ask right now is, what's the status of the. what were the remaining the 5 million, other documents. that have not been released, what's the status there? And I don't I don't know the status. I mean, I read somewhere that I mean, I'm not sure anyone does.

because the status is in the hands of the Trump White House, which has now distracted everyone from this job. The job of of releasing the Epstein files. has been preempted by the job of running Venezuela. Well, good old Thomas Massey, who is one of the Republicans that fought. for the release of the Epstein files, has been saying that, has been criticizing. the white House and criticizing Pam Bondi and saying, this is ridiculous.

Where are they? The the you know, that failing to release enough of them. And as far as I can understand, they've only released 1% of them. And I spoke yesterday to a victim's advocate who said that. the survivors are absolutely furious about this, that many of them feel. they put themselves out there and they're beside themselves. And I think we can assume that this I mean, this isn't gone away. This is this is coming back. But the operation here, the Trump operation is to distract from this.

How do we distract from this? What we invaded, invade a country. Okay. Well, that's this is pretty much by the by the distraction book. So, so I, I, I think, I think in the, in the short term, it's going to be Venezuela. and then and then old reliable Epstein will be back again. What about green? And do you think that we might go from Venezuela to green and, you know, you know, apparently, apparently.

But again, that's the thing. And we had discussed this this. this before. There is very little, if anything, that we would get. from green land by invading it that we do not have now or by owning it. Well, and also, what would an invasion look like? There's only 30,000 people there in rather nice, brightly colored huts. I rather like the look of going to green. In fact, I thought, should we go and do a podcast from Become Greenland?

Be super fun? Well, I think the I think the form of this could very well. take we own Greenland and we can do the following, Trump pronouncement, but we can already do those things, right. We already have a defense agreement, which is gives us wide latitude. to almost do anything, anything defensively in the defense. of Greenland and the Arctic, Arctic territory that we want to do.

Similarly, you know, then there's this thing about, you know, you know, mineral rights, there's an open invitation, Greenland, which says, yeah, come on, we're we're game. You know, bring your bring your investment here. We'll take it. And it's also, I remember this from a brief period I had in business. It's actually quite difficult to figure out where all those minerals are. I mean, it's not as if people haven't been trying. They've been trying for, you know, I mean, that's that that is is.

what there is this, I mean, this is all good for, for Greenland. So the extent that they're, they haven't been exploited. is that they're difficult to exploit and costly. And the return is, is less than people are probably looking for. But now Trump is in a position to say we own. Grammy's very, very capable of doing this. We own Greenland. He's going to make an announcement, we own Greenland. and we can we're going to go in there and we're going to,

put the U.S. military there and defend the Arctic territories. And we're going to exploit and we now have the right to exploit. all of their mineral, capacity, which he already has. We don't have to own it to do that, but he'll just add that flourish. Right. And American companies. have already been trying to find out where these minerals are. But if there's anybody from Greenland watching or listening, please.

let us know how we can come and do a podcast from Greenland. I really want to do it from one of those lovely painted huts. They're all different colors, bright colors, very cheery. You know, in a land where there isn't much sun in the winter. Truly. Greenland. Maya. She had a brother who once spent the summer, had a summer job. working on the United States military base in Tully, Greenland. I think you invent your brother.

I don't think he exists. I've met your sister. But I feel like you invoke your brother when you want to come up with some obscure. wolfy and family lore, which isn't necessarily true. Didn't you have a brother who treks across America at some point? And I only have one brother who lives in Maui. Many years ago, he. left, civilization for Paradise, right? Right. Well, you both living in seaside. I might, I might say he left his family for Paradise.

Okay, well, you're both living in seaside resorts, so you have that in common. The Hamptons, Maui rich seaside. resorts, as I'm sure commentators will point out. Are there poor seaside resorts? Yeah, of course, there are a lot, a lot in the UK to some in the UK. I was going to say. that you are very depressing, super depressing, super depressing. Or now we're going to get angry UK people writing in, but there was actually a book.

written recently about how essentially the sad, the sad it's thesis was because, fares have become so cheap. People in the UK now flee the UK for their two weeks vacation. And so these the UK coastal. map is just full of these sad towns that have fallen apart, and they're sort of aging roller coasters and an old ice cream stands. I once I once accompanied Boris Johnson to,

to speak. before some conservative ladies in a seaside town. Was it really? Was it Blackpool? I like it like it comes to mind that it was a town called Yarmouth. Oh, yeah. Yarmouth, Great Yarmouth and Suffolk. Yeah. And and Blackpool. where I, they often have party conferences. and I once got very ill from eating oysters there. I would recommend anybody avoid the oysters in Blackpool.

I suspect the ones and I'm against it a slightly fresher. Anyway, I did notice your friend Lindsey Halligan popping up. because when she was in the white House before she got sent off to Virginia, where she spectacularly flamed out trying to indict James Comey and Tish. James, she was told to go and, tell the Smithsonian to get its act together. And if they wanted to continue with federal funding, they had to jump through a lot of hoops, not least,

how they were describing American history to American visitors. And. JD Vance now. looks like he's going to take a seat on the Smithsonian board. There are several more seats coming up for, for grabs this year, and it looks like the Smithsonian. might go the way of the Kennedy Center. Do you have any thoughts on this? Yeah. The Trump Smithsonian. Trump Smithsonian. Absolutely.

Yeah, I think that that's I think everything goes this way. Yes. There's no. why why stop why stop with one, institution when they can all. be Trump such and such institutions. and Trump's view of America and the history of America. I mean, yeah, why not stop and take these world class. institutions, the envy of other countries and just Trump for them? It's what he does. Slaps his name on things.

Yeah. Again. Again we're in. And I don't know what is the moment in which. in which too much is too much. What is the moment in which in which there is some response to this? I mean, this sounds, weak, I think, from my point of view, like, well, Congress has been happening, but I am really I am really I think.

it's it's almost it's. in the story of the, of the Trump. administration of what is going on and equal story. A parallel story might be ought to be. Why is there no response to this? Well, when people would say. there is a response and it's online, which isn't as effective. So, Michael, on a scale of 1 to 10, how bad is it. for America if ten is very bad? Ten.

I mean, but bad is not, bad and, and and very bad are not without. Are are not limited. So, it can be ten and get worse. It's like the top of the bestseller list, which is the top of the bestseller list not only means you sell more. than every other book, but, but the sky's the limit.

Your, every other book sells. sells this this many thousands of copies, and you at the bestseller list sell millions upon millions of copies. The writers room. It's the writer in you coming out. That's the analogy. Yes, well, I was I was once in that position, and it was, quite a sweet one. You'll be back there again. My wife. You will be there again.

Although I will say that, I do think cost is going up the charts. The YouTube, podcast is going up the YouTube charts. Well, we should we should get to. We were number 55 out of all podcasts on YouTube this week, which, well, pretty damn far from my number one, of course. Of course, we're working our way slowly there, but I'm just saying. we started doing all the things on the more I think we are at ten, I think, I think it, it is almost inconceivably bad. How much how how things are now we have we have reached an outside.

limit of anything that the nation has ever experienced. And, and it continues to get worse. I mean, I would have said we were at number ten before Venezuela. Now we're in Venezuela or not in Venezuela or something. Well, and who knows what happens with Venezuela. I mean, tomorrow. Trump is supposed to be sitting down with the three big American gas companies, gas and oil companies to talk to them about the opportunities in Venezuela.

And I just going to come out of that and go say yes, yes, yes. And we're doing this and they're going to do nothing, right? Nobody wants to go to take gas. out of the ground or oil out of the ground in Venezuela. We'll be back on Saturday to discuss whether or not we've gone to 11. I guess it's a strange week. There is it's a strange week. It's ten. We've we've maxed out at ten and then it's just, and then from there it's the sky's the limit.

You can't you can't contain the top. Okay, well, we'll be back. We'll do an update on Melania, I hope. And we'll have people's questions for Melania, too. Fantastic. All right. Sleep well. Michael, I hope the the anxiety of what's going on. isn't giving you sleepless nights. I've had sleepless nights all my life. Call me anytime. Okay. Well, I'm still sleeping. Well, for now. For now? Really? Yeah. But for now is the only place you get respite.

It's the only place. Unconsciousness. Unconsciousness. All right, Michael, we'll talk on Saturday. We'll talk on Saturday. Fantastic. All right, so if you have been. Thank you for watching and listening. Please leave us a comment on YouTube, especially about Mark Kelly. I know that's going to feel, people again, don't. forget to check out Obsessed, our new podcast with Kevin Fallon, letting you know what he's obsessed about and the best things to watch, this week.

And Michael, what else? What have I left out? You and I are going to be at the 92nd Street Y. on January 21st. Talking Trump, Epstein, Venezuela. Well, it's a long bye. Venezuela. By then, it's still ten days out. And, Mark Kelly, if people are still grousing about that, I'm there to grow sad and, but it will be a good evening.

And as you've pointed out before, it's a year and a day, since Trump's inauguration of the second administration. So we can we can happily relive Lauren Sanchez. in her frilly bustier under that lovely white coat. And although we can, we can do the do the whole. the first Trump year in five minutes. We'll just, we're just going to power through it. Yeah. So come and see us, bring your questions and tell your friends.

and I'll be level members. I want to give you a big shout out. If you haven't joined the database community, you really should just press the button below. Below where you're watching this. But big shout out to our beast level members, Evette Johnson, methinks Betsy O'Farrell, Mills and Linz Shelby, Max qubit, David Sherry, Thomas Moore, Marie of all. Taine de couture, Watson, Yellen, John H.

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Thank you very much. Do you want to thank our production team? I would thank our production team, but the personnel. seem to be changing so quickly that I. The good news is the team is still led by Devin Roger Reno, and we've added Ryan Murray and Heather Passaro to our team.