Why Susie Wiles Can't Deny Spilling Trump Secrets | The Daily Beast Podcast

This journey that I took with Susie Wiles. Of her speaking to me unguarded, and on the record for 11 months. It's interesting that the white House has not disputed. a single fact in the papers. because, we're on an absolutely solid ground. My instinct, I've covered a few. White House is that with this white House and with Susie, it's never four dimensional chess, ever.

I think Michael Wolff would agree with probably. I think he would. I think it's. Never it's never even three dimensional chess. It's never it's not even chess. Is it checkers? It might be checkers. I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. And what a hullabaloo out of the white House. It's, Chris Whipple, a former producer for 60 minutes. and ABC news and now a contributor to Vanity Fair. What a hullabaloo about his piece on Susie Wiles.

Donald Trump's chief of staff, Chris Whipple, did 11 interviews with Susie Wiles and oh, what secrets she revealed. J.D. Vance's transformation from someone who thought that Donald Trump. was the new Hitler to his vice president was a political decision. Elon Musk, when he's tweeting crazy things, is, in fact, microdosing and Donald Trump. Donald Trump has an alcoholics personality.

Well, the white House itself has come out. with its arms around Susie Wiles. The entire cabinet has tweeted their support. And Donald Trump has said, you know, she barely spoke to Chris Whipple, maybe one, maybe two interviews. It's very clear he didn't know very much about it. Anyway, no time to waste. We have the man himself right here, Chris Whipple. Let's get into it. Chris, you posted on.

Facebook last night that the most important piece. you had ever done was going to drop this morning at 7:00. It did drop. And I think it's fair to say all hell has broken out in the white House. Every single member of the cabinet has tweeted about your subject. Tell us why. this is the most important piece you've ever done. It's one of those cases where Joanna, where, you know, every once in a while in a reporter's career, lightning strikes.

And this was surely a case. This journey that I took with Susie Wiles of her. speaking to me, with. unguarded, and on the record for 11 months. It's extraordinary. And it's it's an extraordinary glimpse. It's not just a profile of a person who. I think is arguably the most fascinating,

person in American politics. But it's an inside glimpse of Trump 2.0. from a member of the inner circle. And so for those reasons, this just doesn't happen very often. But you can read all about it in Vanity Fair. So, Chris, why is she so upset about it? I mean, this has prompted Susie Wiles, who you say. is the most important woman in American politics.

Most fascinating. Most fascinating, most fascinating. Yes. You've driven to Twitter. She hasn't tweeted for over a year. And she said today the article, published early. this morning, is a disingenuously framed hits piece on me. and the finest president white House staff and cabinet in history. And then she goes on to say, significant context was disregarded. And much of what I and others said about the team.

and the president was left out of the story. I assume after reading it that this was done to paint an overwhelmingly. chaotic and negative narrative about the president and our team. Why do you think she's so upset by your piece? Well. Let's put this in a little bit of perspective. Shall we? I'm old enough to remember. the Watergate year, when Ben Bradlee used to refer to Non-denial denials.

And this is right up there. I'm not saying this is Watergate. I mean, it is an inside glimpse into the white House. But, it's interesting that. the white House has not disputed. a single fact in the piece. because, we're on absolutely solid ground. Everything in that piece, everything. Susie said was on the record. And on tape, by the way.

So, look, I understand. that, you know, they they've made a statement. It speaks for itself. But the Vanity Fair piece is absolutely solid. And all of our comments were on the record. And of course, all the, people around her sat for photographs, too. We should point out. Yeah, absolutely. As you said, your access was unprecedented. Certainly in Trump 2.0.

What did you tell her about the piece before you embarked on this journey. together? Well, I first spoke to her back in January, ten days before she, took office. And at that point, she knew that. I was the author of a book on white House chiefs of staff. She was the incoming white House chief of staff. No new book, of course, is The Gatekeepers. And you interviewed 17, I think, chiefs of staff for it.

And two presidents. That's right. And, so, look, I think that she was, she was open to talking to me because I do think that, because of the gatekeepers, I had a reputation. for fairness and for, not, you know, for being very open, evenhanded on both sides of the aisle. When I, when the subject. of Vanity Fair came up that this would become a piece. for Vanity Fair, I can tell you she was all in.

She was enthusiastic about it. And here we are. So what did Donald Trump know about the piece? Good question. I honestly don't know. I, I dealt with Susie. We spoke. We had 11 long interviews, over 11 months. And, I told her that one point that I'd be certainly open.

to talking to the president, but, that didn't happen. And so I not only interviewed Susie. in depth on the record over all that time, but I interviewed, Marco Rubio, JD Vance, Stephen Miller, James Blair, Taylor Bush, which, you know, the, the whole inner circle vote. Yeah. And and everybody knew that the conversations were on the record.

And as you alluded to, they welcomed. Vanity Fair's photographer into the white House. They they knew who he was. They she'd, they'd seen his portfolio. This couldn't have been more, you know, on aboveboard and on the record. So as we've been talking, the president has just weighed in. And as we said in the introduction, Susie Wiles described him. as having an alcoholic personality, which I want to unpack in a moment.

But, he says that she was. actually right to tell you that he has an alcoholic personality. and that he's got full faith in Susie. Wiles to continue in her role. And he also added that he avoids alcohol, which I think we know. Saying in the interview that he has a possessive and addictive. type personality and that he wasn't offended by her word choice. He then went on to say, I didn't read it, but I don't read Vanity Fair.

But she's done a fantastic job. How about that? A fact check from Donald Trump? I'll take. It. A fact check from Donald Trump. I'll take it. If you look at the whole business of Trump, having an alcoholics personality, of course, was fascinating. Well, I was I was literally coming on to that to say what did she mean by that? Unpack that for us. So one of the fascinating things about Susie Wiles. is that not only that, she ran, a brilliant campaign.

in 2024 against all the odds and got Donald Trump elected. He would not be president without her. She's the first female chief of staff in in history, as we all know. But she has this extraordinary background, this journey. She was daughter of the famous sportscaster. Pat Summerall, who was an absentee parent and an alcoholic. She helped stage interventions with her mother to get him in treatment. He was sober for 21 years before he died.

But she'd be the first to tell you that, she has a PhD in difficult men. Don't we all? Don't we all? Chris? Some women more than others, maybe. Susie, I tell you, she's world class. when it comes to dealing with difficult man. She. She was raised by Pat Summerall. She. So she understands the personality of an alcoholic. And when she applies it to Donald Trump,

obviously she doesn't mean that he's a drinker. As far as we know, he's not. But he does have this grandiose personality. It untethered sometimes to reality. My words, not hers. But if you want to read her description of a pick up Vanity Fair, I mean, she. she describes again how he believes. Paraphrasing now. There's nothing, zilch, nada. that he cannot accomplish, that he cannot do.

And she will. And what she's saying is that's very much like an alcoholics personality. Even though Donald Trump doesn't drink. Right. And that they're always. And when they do drink, they become bigger and even bigger. Which, as you point out, he he doesn't do that. So, look, I want to come in to some of the very specific quotes she gives you. But I wanted to ask you something. She's a woman that claims not to like the limelight, to shun the limelight. She very specifically says to his the sofa.

where Donald Trump's key members sit in his my chair. I sit off to the side. And yet she found the time to sit with you. or talk to you for 11 interviews. What's that. About? I don't know. I can't read her mind. I cannot, definitively tell you why. she decided to go on this amazing journey with me. I'm grateful to her that she did. I like to think that maybe.

behind all the obfuscation and the comments that are being. put out there today, that maybe deep down she knows the piece is fair. Because it is. There's certainly her words, not mine. I was scrupulous about trying. to be very fair and even handed. But you're right. She did. Greta Garbo of White House, Chiefs of staff. She's just not someone that you see on camera or hear from,

at all. I mean, she's done a few interviews, as you know, but nothing like this before. And I honestly think that she believed. I don't think this was four dimensional chess of some kind. I just think this was Susie Wiles. believing that. she would get a fair shake from me. And maybe she. doesn't think she did it today, but I.

I think she believed she would. And I and I think she got it. Okay, so what I am going to add is just a couple more words from Donald Trump. Who this is, this is coming out as weird as which. I want to hear. It. Yeah. I think from what I hear, the facts were wrong. And it was a very misguided interviewer. Purposely misguided. Yeah. And then this is clearly him talking about Susie. Yeah. Deceived. And he didn't have great access.

A couple of very short interviews. And Susie generally doesn't do interviews, Trump said. My reaction to that is hilarious. I mean, you know, all you have to do is check the white House logs. Well, and the phone calls that we had, I mean, we had, again, 11 count on. 11 in depth on the record interviews, two visits, in person at the white House. I spent the whole day in the Roosevelt Room.

That was my office one day. when we did the portraits of her inner circle. And the Trump had wandered across the hall. He he would know we were there. He didn't. But anyway, I find that kind of fascinating. Do you think knowing what you know about him and what he's just said. to the New York Post, which I read to you? Do you think that he's now going to be annoyed with her for having done this?

I mean, we know that Donald Trump doesn't like it when the people around him. get a lot of press or more press than he does, but he also doesn't like it. when they get no press because that's when he ignores them. Do you think he's jealous of her in this moment? I can't I can't read Donald Trump's mind. I'm not going to try to psychoanalyze him. But, you know, he. he doesn't shrink from a good fight either. I say bring it. Let's have the fight.

But if he wants over the facts here, the facts are are incontestable and the interviews are what they are. And Susie said what she said. But you know what? It's I Peter Baker of the New York Times that a big story. about my story this morning. But she compared it to the huge. flap over David Stockman who was an economic adviser. to Ronald Reagan and started talking to a magazine. and gave in-depth interviews in which he in.

in which he revealed that the fact, trickle down economics was smoke and mirrors. and that it caused a huge sensation. I was flattered when Peter compared this piece to that. and its impact because Suzy, while she's not breaking with Trump, in her candor, she has revealed, you know, some, some unspoken truths. about the way this white House functions.

And but I don't I'm not at all sure. Apologies for the long winded answer. I'm not at all sure that Trump's going to dump her. Stockman was taken to the woodshed by the white House chief of staff, James Baker. Almost lost his job. Nancy Reagan wanted him fired, but his was saved. Well, I was curious that the entire cabinet. have tweeted in her support. Well, of course they have, because she she is, except for Donald.

Trump, the most powerful person in the Trump White House. And Donald Trump is unswervingly. loyal and and protective of her. And of course, they're all going to going to support her. And quite frankly, why not? I mean, she's she's been good to them. She runs a pretty tight ship in the white House. And that may be hard. for some people to believe, but compared to Trump, 1.0, they like her. So why not?

Well, because she reveals some things about them which aren't. particularly attractive, perhaps. So let's look at that. Elon Musk microdosing on ketamine when he's tweeting all sorts of things. He's an odd, odd duck. She says. JD Vance, who's someone as we know in 2016, was describing Donald Trump as the new Hitler. She says, made the move towards. Trump as a as a political move. Those are not flattering things to hear about you,

especially from the chief of staff to the president of the United States. So in fairness to Susie, let me just be clear that, she wants to be clear that she has no personal knowledge. that Musk was microdosing ketamine. when he put out those crazy tweets about Hitler and Stalin. Right. But but why would Susie Wiles, the chief of staff who's extremely. experienced at this stuff, talk to an interviewer and say it then? Well, because she she was unguarded and she was freewheeling and.

and I give her a huge credit for being, for being candid on the subject of that. So that was fascinating. And this is something really worth reading in Vanity Fair, because, you know, this was a case where I asked her about the conversion, a 180 degree conversion of JD Vance and Marco. Rubio from Never Trumpers to powerful acolytes. And she said of Rubio, you know, boy, that. that was really principled. Marco does not violate his principles.

And it took him a while to get there. By contrast, she said of Vance, the vice president, well, he was running. for the Senate and his conversion was sort of political, quote unquote. So I found that remarkably. candid and interesting. And there you go. Did you talk to her about whether either of them. could take over from Donald Trump, who is, after all, 79?

Yeah. No, not specifically about that. I mean, I certainly talked about the president's health. She she. insists that the president is fine, that his health is good. She said, my health is good. His is great. And she put it in the piece. I didn't specifically talk about whether they could take over, but, look, I think she's a J.D. Vance fan. But despite that, she made that remarkable, little bit of insight about his conversion. She.

She's a JD Vance fan, and she really likes Rubio. They go way back, you know, to Florida. In politics, as you know. This is a cabinet that she is she is all for. But it's remarkable when you. when she starts talking about how the sausage was made from day one, when she tried to talk Trump out of doing a blanket pardon for the January 6th, and insurrectionist to the moment when she said, let's cut out this revenge.

and retribution to all the way to the 11 months. It's a wild, fascinating, right? So you interviewed 17 chiefs of staff for your book, The Gatekeepers. Where does Susie Wiles sit in that list of of men? She's the first female chief of staff. Where does she rate in terms of of, you know, from 1 to 17?

Well, she's historic, obviously as the first female chief of staff. She has an extraordinarily close. bond relationship with the president, which is half the battle as white House chief of staff. She's run a pretty smooth ship when you consider Trump 1.0, when it was a killing field where white House Chief went to die. Well, I think he got 3 or 4 in his first term. Correct. That's right. It was mission impossible.

Trump, you know, it was just, again, from Lindsey Priebus. to John Kelly to Mick Mulvaney to Mark Meadows. They just there were blood all over the floor. Very different. Trump 2.0. You could argue that the difference between Trump. 2.0 and 1.0, we largely presume I'll send them. How Chief ban is the way that the cabinet is crazy, as we know. But she deserves credit for that.

Having said that, the big overarching question of her tenure as white House. chief, which is really kind of the arc of my Vanity Fair journey with her, is to what extent she can do. the most important duty of any white House chief, which is to tell the president what he doesn't want to hear. She you'll see the journey that she takes. and what she tries to do that to some extent early on. And by the end, I readers can judge for themselves, but it's a journey.

She said that Donald Trump has an alcoholics personality. What did she say about Pete Hegseth? She's a Pete Hegseth fan. When I asked her about. She thinks the cabinet is a brilliant cabinet. She, you know, some outside observers might say. this is the least qualified cabinet, in modern history, but from Susie's point of view, they are quote unquote disrupters.

And that's what she thinks that the system needs. She thinks that Hegseth asked her about the deep state, and she'll say it's. not in the State Department. It's the military industrial complex. She thinks Hegseth is the guy to stand up to them. She calls Bobby Kennedy another world class disruptor. My Bobby, quirky Bobby. So she's all in with this cap. And she says she's not an enabler, and she says she's not a bitch.

What does that mean? Well, it was fascinating because. as you as you pointed out, I know a few white House chiefs of staff, including Leon Panetta, who was arguably, along with James Baker, the third, the gold standard of. Leon Panetta was Clinton, Bill Clinton's chief of staff, and James Baker was, Ronald Reagan, Ronald Reagan. So I was going to say George George H.

Bush, Ronald Reagan. Yes, I spoke, but I so I spoke to Panetta in the course of writing this piece. and asked him what he thought of Suzy Wiley's, and he said from where. he sat out in California, he never met her. Just observing. He couldn't decide whether she's an enabler. or a disciplinarian who is really trying to get Trump to do the right thing. I repeated this to Suzy.

Leon's comment. And really got a rise out of her. I think the trigger was the word enabler. She did not like that word. And and so as you quoted her a minute ago, she said, I'm not an enabler and I'm not a bitch. That's about as salty as, Suzy Wiles gets. But I didn't. I didn't really understand what she meant by that. What do you think she meant by that? Well, listen, I can't read her mind, but.

But look, there's a woman. You keep saying that. But you interviewed her 11 times. You must have an idea. No, I said I couldn't read, Trump's mind. I don't think I said that before now, but, I mean, look, I think. you readers can judge for themselves what she means by that, but one possible interpretation. is that she finds it more difficult. to speak hard truths as a woman.

That she she might feel. that she'd be considered a bitch if she did. So that's one possible interpretation. But but what I can tell you is that it was revealing to me. that I got such a rise out of her when I quoted Leon Panetta, because I think the notion that a revered white House chief like him. might think she's an enabler really did not sit well. That's a very interesting interpretation that as a woman, she might find it.

harder to speak truth to power. Yeah. What do you do? You think? Well, I was going to put something to Michael Wolff, who was, you know, also had access to, to Trump one and sat in the white House for seven months before he wrote. The Fire and Fury and went on to write four books about Donald Trump, says that what he understands from people in the white House is that Susie. Wiles is not a chief of staff as we know it. As you would think of it traditionally with the 17 people you've interviewed.

But that she's really, an administrator in chief and that the, the way to survive. there is never to tell Trump that he's wrong or that. or never to try and divert him. because he's wise to that from Trump one. Well, look, Michael's got a point and, and, and obviously. knows a lot about Trump and, and the Trump White House. But and and it's true that that,

you know, her strong suit has been her ability. to run the white House, which none of her predecessors could do. And Trump one point out. You say run the white House, but it seems like the cabinet. or the president lurches from moment to moment. A lot of the policies don't seem to be thought out. They don't seem to be discussed with people. I mean, I understand this idea of disrupting, but it felt like they didn't understand what they were disrupting.

I'm making a distinction between the white House and the administration. Talking about the executive branch and. and the white House, which is where the real power resides. But look, there's plenty of policy chaos. There's no question about that. But I think the real if you really asking me where she stands in the pantheon of, of white House. chiefs of staff, we don't know yet. But, the most important duty, the ultimate test of a white House chief of staff is being able.

to walk into the Oval Office, close the door until the president. What he doesn't want to hear, and what you can see if you read. the Vanity Fair piece, is this journey that she takes from day 56, when she says, when I said to her, do you ever go in and tell them, let's cut out this revenge and retribution stuff and governance? She said, I did. I had that conversation and we had a loose agreement, quote unquote, that it would end after 90 days. Well, so where are we now? Right.

So in the end. Yeah. So you can judge you can follow her journey. where she's pushing back or trying to or trying to tap the brakes early. on to where she is today and draw your own conclusions. But the real test is, has she told him hard truths? Has she been able to tell him no, we shouldn't go down this road and here's why. And will he listen. And boy it's just not clear that she's able to do that.

Right. So you don't think it's clear she's able to do that. That certainly the implication from the piece. Well and I do and I want readers to judge, but I as I say, what I find. fascinating is this journey she takes over the course of the year. And if this were a piece about, you know, there's a simplistic sort of school of. thought that Trump is just surrounded by a bunch of enablers, you know, a man.

Chorus. And it's not. And in Susie's case, I think it's a little bit. it's more interesting and nuanced and fascinating. She says in the piece that no one else could do this. job, that she is the only person that could do this job. She sat with you for 11 interviews, or she talked to you for 11 interviews. I think sometimes you were on the phone, she was folding her laundry. She was just coming back from church. Mean to Trump. Apparently. I only spoke to her once or twice, but.

Sorry. Yeah. According to the president, was a couple of interviews. Not very much access. In fact, as you said, you had unprecedented access. Well, why does she want this attention, do you think. What? Why did she do this? I again, without trying to. psychoanalyze her or pretend that I know the answer. My best guess is that she really felt that she would get a fair hearing. She.

She believes that Trump was vilified. As for his term, and un unfairly portrayed. by a bunch of jackals in the media. And I think she thought maybe. because I'd done a very evenhanded book about white House chiefs. In part, I think she honestly felt. that she could get a fair hearing. She may or may not think so today.

But I think going in, that's what stood by. How many of the people that you've spoken. to or that appear in the photos in Vanity Fair? And I urge everybody to look at the photos in particular, because they're. they're very Christopher Anderson's photos, which accompany your very thoughtful piece. Completely riveting and very exposing. How many people of those, of those people have spoken to you privately today? How many of you heard from privately?

Susie? One. One person. And what did she say? You know, we exchanged text. And I don't want to get into what she said because that's. a private communication. But. But you've seen what she's saying. Publicly. And you've seen what they're tweeting. And so I think I think that speaks for itself. Does is that. But but I'm asking you a different question. Does that reflect what she said to you in her private texts to you?

Well, again, I don't want to characterize what we, what we talked about, but I think that, you know, we we've all seen, you've seen and you've read some of the public. reaction from the white House to the piece. And my answer to that is, sure. It sounds like the old days non-denial denials. every not a single fact of the piece has been, and for good reason. There's nothing to consider. Well, you know, Chris, what it reminds me of as a British person.

is how the royal family and in particular, Princess. Diana, used to deal with the media, which was that. And we know this from Andrew Morton's book, where she sat down and with a friend and she gave a tape. of the tape of the tape of stories which Andrew Morton. wrote up in his bestselling book, who, of course, title is now escaping me. Went on to be a huge bestseller, and she issued all sorts of denials.

The Royal family said they were going to to sue over it. She would regularly talk to a specific journalist from the Daily Mail. He would then splash what she told him on the front page, and then she would issue a denial, saying, this is outrageous. I'm being hounded by the tabloid press. When in fact she was talking to them all along. So what I'm trying to figure out is, is Susie Wiles trying to have it both ways, like the British royal family, where they say one thing and then deny it.

So they're trying to get the public's, the public on board. with them, while also getting their side of the story out. And of course, here this is about an audience of one for Susie Wiles. It's about Donald Trump. And Donald Trump is saying, oh, this man, you, Chris Whipple, had limited access maybe to interviews. But my instinct about this having covered a few white House, it's, Is that with this white House and with Susie,

it's never four dimensional chess, ever. I think Michael Wolff would agree with me. I think he would. I think he never it's never even three dimensional chess. It's never. It's not even chess. Is it checkers? Is it checkers? Checkers? But I just don't think they're. that clever about it or calculating. And I honestly think, you know, I've I've certainly heard. all kinds of people speculating that Susie was saying.

what she said to me that somehow position herself for the Trump, you know, career non-self is my gut. My gut feeling is she just started talking and wanted to talk. I thought she had a, not a sympathetic, but a fair fear. And just kept talking. And here we are. So JD Vance tweeted out, if any of us have learned. a lesson from the Vanity Fair article, I hope the lesson is.

we should be giving fewer interviews to mainstream media outlets. Is this the end of the cabinet talking to mainstream media? Well. You know, it hasn't struck me that they've been doing much. to to this point. You know, this this piece wouldn't be rocking. the political world the way it has in the last few hours. If they'd been talking to the mainstream media a lot that they're not.

So I don't see that as a sea change in the Trump, white House approach to the media. Sounds like, alas, no, no lesson has been learned in this case. Okay, so so, Chris, I have a final question for you. and for anybody who's interested, I suddenly remembered. the title of Diana's book. It's Diana A True Story. And of course, she said it wasn't a true story, but she was the actual source. Wait a minute. Whose book are we promoting here anyway? So you.

It's it's. Anyway, it's Vanity Fair is grief. They're working at it. No. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I know you're teasing. Here's my final question for you. And I should have checked. I should have checked on this, but what is the likelihood of Susie. Wiles being in her job in three months time? 90%. So there's a 10% chance this piece gets her fired? Well, I think again, I'm making up the percentages, but I just think that David Stockman survived his,

his trial by fire when he spoke out of school. to the Atlantic over months and months during the Reagan White House. Susie Wiles is clo way closer. to Donald Trump than Stockman was to Reagan. I think there's a bond there. And frankly, there Susie is right in a sense. that there is no obvious person to do this job other than her.

She has a kind of bond with Trump. that he never had with any of her predecessors. And I can't think of anybody else that he would want in that dump. Do you know what that reminds me of? Margaret Thatcher saying that in politics, no one is unassailable. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and certainly she's like, nobody. is, indispensable. So I'm not saying.

that she might not lose her job, but it could happen. But, boy, it doesn't sound like it. From the early comments by Donald Trump. Did you like her? She's really a likable person. And she's. And that's what was that's. what was so fascinating about these conversations is that. she seemed willing in a way that, look, I've covered a few white houses. I wrote a book, two books. I mean, one book about the Biden White House, another book.

about the Biden, Trump 24 campaign. Senior white House officials hardly ever. speak to you on the record. They're all on background, beat background, quote, approval and Menard. Susie, to her credit, was willing to just let it rip. And boy, did she. Well, Chris, it's a fascinating piece for those who want to read it.

It's two parter in Vanity Fair. Who knew magazines even ran two parties anymore. But congratulations on a truly riveting read. And, we will watch Susie Wiles with great care. Michael Wolff has a wonderful description of Donald Trump when he first sees her. And as you mentioned, she was working for Ron DeSantis. at the time, and he said, who's the refrigerator? That's how he referred to her.

And yet you say, now they have a bond. When she when they met, when they first sat down and had a talk about working together, Donald Trump was sort of in awe. He he was sitting there with the daughter of the great, had something he believes in two things. He believes in winning and he believes in great genes, gimmes. And she had it. Fascinating, Chris. Thank you very much indeed. My pleasure.

John, thanks for having. So there you have it, a chief of staff who decided that despite the chaos going on in America. and indeed the ripple effects around the world, that she had time. and she could make time for not one, not two, not five, not ten, but 11 interviews. with 60 minutes former producer. and ABC news former producer Chris Whipple.

So what was she thinking? She said she alone could do the job. and Donald Trump has come out in support saying, he loves her, he supports her, and that she probably had gave very limited access to the reporter. Maybe one, maybe 1 or 2 interviews. How do we think this is going to end? My prediction not well, not well if you have been. Thank you for joining us. Find Chris Whipple's piece is completely riveting, as all I should say.

Christopher Anderson's photos. Don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast. And leave us a comment on YouTube. We'd love to know what you think, and I try and respond to as many. as I possibly can. Don't forget to check out Inside Trump's Head, where Michael Wolf and I go deep today in Donald Trump's response. to the terrible, terrible killing of Rob. Reiner and his wife, Michelle Singer. Until, well, until tomorrow. Until Thursday. So many podcasts all the time.

It's raining podcasts. So big. Thank you to Sandra Clark, methinks. Travels with Karl Andrew, Beaver, cap, Anita, Harry Clarke, Dawn McCarthy, Daniel doc, M Greiner, Fulvia, Orlando, Herbie, Andrew Miller, or Mel or as Michael always says. last, Condé bonds over I love Francisco Andrea Hotel, Bangkok, DC Sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen White and Heidi Riley.

Thank you to our production team Devin Roger Reno, Anna Von Ersan, and Jesse Millard.