Why Loser Trump Melted Down In Front of Me: Wolff | Inside Trump's Head

Sitting there. And by the way, it goes on for a long time. In one of these sessions, may have gone on for two hours. You just don't know what to say. I mean, he looks strange. His eyes go, you know, kind of bulge. You're afraid. You kind of hold your breath. He's off his rocker. I mean, we have the president of the United States who is mentally ill. A president of the United States who cannot perceive reality. I think it's important to understand what we're saying.

here, that the United States government is run by a madman. And no doubt this goes in and out. The 2020 election is clearly an obsession that he cannot get clarity on. He cannot see the truth they're unwilling to see. I don't even think it's as unwilling or unable to see the truth there. Michael. Joanna. How's the weather? Smoke? I will say, I actually, if I start coughing.

during this podcast, it's because I do feel I have been impacted. by the Canadian smoke that's been lingering over New York. How how could you not? I mean, it's kind of been extraordinary. And out here at the beach where you would think we would get some respite. It's it's been fick. Yep. Thick is the right word. There was the most gorgeous framing of the sun. set that we could see from the Daily Beast office on Thursday night,

but it felt almost quasi apocalyptic. Actually. The air was so thick it was so hard to breathe. After my various hip operations, I'd been back on my bicycle cycling around. New York, but I actually felt slightly chest constriction. Actually, after getting off the bike. I think that this will become a reasonable pretext then to invade Canada. Well, let's hope that it doesn't. become smoke season in New York and this becomes a regular thing.

So we have a lot to get through today, not least Trump's. speech and ABC and NBC's refusal to carry it. We have JD Vance and a three hour long conversation of him laying out. What I think we saw was Vance's on. Joe Rogan podcast. Just let me ask you just a little digression here. Do people really listen to Joe Rogan for three hours? Well, I think they have it on the background, right?

Are you suggesting, are you suggesting that we should go to the. And would they listen to us for three hours? Could we go on for. Actually, we probably could we? It's possible that Joe Rogan actually doesn't stop that. He's like an explosive conversational conveyor belt where people just jump on. for three hours, jump off, he keeps going, and someone else jumps on. It's possible that Joe Rogan is never knowingly silent.

It's a particular. right of center skill, I think. I mean, Rush Limbaugh, remember Io's defined rush? Mesmerizing. He would just go on and on and on without a breath, without a pause, and without a doubt and without a doubt. Well, Tucker Carlson does the same thing, right? He just starts talking and coffee. No, no, but actually, Tucker Tucker needs a guest.

And he also then will pause. I mean, there's all those Tucker kind of laughs mugging. You know, it's not as it's not as as. it's not as much like an engine as some of these guys anyway. I like a guess, too. I like having someone to talk to. I like having you to talk to Michael. I would find it very odd just to be talking into the black hole of the camera. stream of weird consciousness.

But anyway, I should just say, for those of you who have joined us today. on Inside Trump's Head, a place we go three times a week, we would love you to subscribe to Inside Trump's Head or The Daily Beast podcast. We are independent media. It's why we have these conversations and we really appreciate your support. But Michael, I, I thought that we could give listeners. and viewers some inspiration of how to start their mornings.

Now, I'm normally have the ability right after drop off to sit by the ocean. I live here in Miami and meditate as the sun rises. and I'll pray, I'll reflect. I'll I'll think I keep that beautiful moment in my day. as sort of an anchor to to both offer sort of thanks and gratitude to God. and the universe, but also to reflect on what my priorities are for the day ahead. Do you think it's a Jewish God?

Is what I want to know. Well, it's definitely a Jewish God because, I don't know, she might slip back. You know, it might be. We don't know whose god that is. Well, we do know that she converted, but. But what I want to know is, how do you start your day, Michael? Because I start my day with an avalanche and Niagara. Falls of news about the damage her father is doing. Well, it actually makes me feel guilty.

because I, too could go to the beach and watch the sunrise, but I do not. And but but perhaps I should. Maybe she's right. How? She might say. She said 90 minutes. That's a long time. I mean, 90 minutes. You might as well just give up the day. I just I love it, but. But what I'm struck by is the. And this is my old English high school education coming up.

But but rereading a little bit of King Lear recently, I was just reminded of how Evancho, who was so present. during the first couple of years of the first administration, has completely extricated herself from the second administration. She said that politics was far too cruel a business for her to stay. in, and she's withdrawn. And it made me think of of the King Lear quote about one of his daughters.

How sharper than a serpent's tooth. it is to have a thankless child. And it just made me think of, frankly, of Donald Trump as the mad king. Well, yeah, it's interesting because I think it's probably. a more specific signal that has been sent by both Yvonne. and Jared, their absence from this administration, which is that in the first administration, they really went in thinking.

they could exercise some restraint. or some control over of Donald Trump. And I think that they decided that didn't work. And and this administration. is most characterized by, by the people around him. accepting the fact that there is no restraint, that. they really have no power over him, that no one does, that he is the mad King. Yes.

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Download Sally in the App Store or by scanning the QR code on this screen. Use Code Beast Checkout to get 15% off your first purchase. The details are in the podcast episode description box. You saw that I thought. on Thursday when the shot pulled back and you saw Donald. Trump behind the podium, and then you saw this semi-circle. of sycophants of his cabinet sitting there knowing,

as John Ossoff so articulately put it in the Jay Clayton. hearings, that that we know. that, you know, that this entire room. knows that his idea that somehow. he won the 2020 election is a delusion. It is a delusion. Yeah, I'm confused by that, because that seems to imply that he knows and that he knows it's a delusion.

Then it would be not a delusion. It would be a, a strategy or. or or a piece of just a cynical. understanding of everything, which I don't think is true. I mean, I'm, I'm, I may be one of the, the, the few people who, who actually believes I'm not one of those. That's that's wrong. I think everyone around him understands, in fact,

that he absolutely believes this. No one else believes it. No one else believes that he won the 2020 election. But he does believe it. And that, to me, is actually the kind of. the scarier thing, the larger thing than that. This is another way for him to try to manipulate the election, or another way. for him to to set up a rationale for losing the election, that there is a.

there is mental illness here, and it's a kind of a result of. of his paranoia, his resentments, his. insecurity, his his. his inability to appreciate reality. I think you might most accurately say, but but what what is so confusing. looking at it is. why is he saying this is about China and why, when the US is back,

I think on its fourth day of bombing Iran, is he reopening this wound? I mean, he's won an election since then. Yes, because he's another because it's a it's it's an obsessive. Yes. It's an obsessive thing in his mind. Again, this is another description of of why. you have to see this as an illness, that he can't get away from this.

This does no good for him. And I think we've seen in the reaction of other Republicans, this is a political negative for him. And yet he pursues it because. he can't not pursue it. And. I've actually sat with him, I mean, very clearly sat across the table. from from him in heard him go on at length about this. And so I'm going to stop you there because I actually spotted something.

in your Substack which I wanted to read, which I think addresses this very point. On two occasions I've sat with him as he has outlined. his case for the stolen election, all his hurt on display. It's an obsessive recitation of numbers that he's been told, and then revised to his own specifications of strange things that happened. He's been told in the night of fragments of information that might.

easily be disputed or corrected, but have long since lodged in his head. It's a kind of delirium. I was I haven't in doing this. I just did not know how to react sitting there. And by the way, it goes on for a long time. in one of these sessions may have gone on for two hours. You just don't know what to say.

I mean, he looks strange. His eyes, his eyes go, you know, kind of bulge. And you're afraid. You kind of. Stace, you kind of hold your breath. This is. craziness. I mean, I can't see this in any other way, and I think almost anybody. would react in a similar fashion to the way I reacted. I don't know what to do here. This is something that is,

something is broken, something is off. And I think everybody around him understands this, understands. this, believes that they have to humor it, believes that this just exists, you know? Yes, this is crazy. But he was elected the president. He is the president. So therefore we are in some way. stuck with this craziness. Now, what would happen?

What would have happened if you just said, you know, that nobody else believes. this, right? You know, I mean, I think I would have hoped that by this point. I've described the way Donald Trump operates, that there is no. facility or capacity for contradicting him. in this way, that that would, that that would stop right there. I mean, either he would stop listening to you.

walk away or in fact, he just doesn't. hear it. And. and I think. literally, I mean, I think no one has. I mean, in those days, after the election in 2020, there was almost everyone in the white House in some way. tried to tell him that he had to stop this, that this was that. he had lost the election, that even if he could.

isolate instances where where there might be a legitimate dispute, none of those disputes would overcome the numbers themselves. He lost the election, and no one could get through to him on this. And they all, virtually everyone of some. legitimate standing around. him, left the white House, including, by the way, Jared and Ivanka. And then he ushered in this, this, this other group of of whack dos,

including Rudy Giuliani and, and and a whole retinue of others. who are still now in the wings feeding him. And those are people who are just themselves mad or completely. cynical and, and. and then this, this began and, you know, again, it was in 2021.

when he left the white House, there was a widespread consensus. And this is throughout the Republican Party, that this was okay. This was thank God this is over with, because he is he was out of it. Okay. So so does this. I wonder how this plays with the voters as we roll up to the midterms. I mean, you know, people have said widely, oh, this is his,

this is his election. campaign, that the election is going to be stolen, that it's all rigged. But your point that he's actually mad was also reflected. by Gavin Newsom and in a post, let's just play that post. Well, the only thing missing tonight, Donald Trump's speech was tinfoil. This was a legitimate 25th amendment moment. The ramblings of a mad king. Don't get me wrong, a foreign interference in our elections, that's a real thing.

Nothing about what you watch tonight, though, was real. It's make believe he wants to rig the election in 2026. He knows he's going to lose. He needs to rig the election before one vote was cast. He's making two points here that the president is is a is a nutter. President is mad. And the president is trying to manipulate. the the the election which would indicate. actually that he's that he's not mad that he knows what he's doing.

Right. That is highly manipulative and effective. Yes. Now, of course, two things can be true at the same time. And and I believe that that's probably an example. But the latter obscures the former, which I believe is the larger issue. He's off his rocker. I mean, we have the president of the United States who is mentally ill, who who cannot perceive reality.

That is that is I mean, let's think of that. A president of the United States who cannot perceive reality. I the and then we can extend. that to say, how can we predict what a crazy man will do? And then I think you might get into the, the second part of. of Newsome statement that he might do anything. His delusion, his inability to perceive reality.

might well become the justification his madness. becomes, the justification for trying to interfere. with the election or steal the election, which happened in 2020, actually. But let's not lose sight. It's the kind of thing, you know, and it's so difficult. It's so difficult to focus on the fact that the president of the. the enormity of this, that the president of the United States might be mad. What do we do about this, the 25th amendment?

Yeah, he throws that off. Well, that's not going to happen. So that there is no mechanism here. He is the he is the president of the United States. And he is mad. Cannot appreciate reality. Well, I think one person who might have insight. into this and realizes that his boss is mad is JD Vance. And and we mentioned the three our interview he did with Joe Rogan.

But what was clear in that interview. was how Vance was trying very hard to to thread a needle. to say, yes, I'm loyal to the president, but I'm actually. laying out some differences in our situations here. Yeah, but that's but he's just he's just running for president himself. He's setting that up. There's no there's no indication that he. that he understands and certainly would be willing to act.

on the fact that here is a man who he works for, who he might reasonably perceive as off his fucking rocker. So. So how does the 25th amendment were it to. were it to be enacted? How does it happen? What is needed for that? I you know, I have gone over this many times. because it has obviously come up before and I think it seems so.

remote, the possibilities of this happening. being so not going to happen, that I forget the details, but the details, I think it's basically it involves a vote of the cabinet. It's not he's not necessarily removed from he's removed from office. until he is can be, I think demonstrate that he's. that he's recovered, which would be an interesting thing.

And he'll he'll do the mental test again and he'll know the well, he'll ace it, he'll ace the Moca test. He'll know leg shoe, white school, tomato, whatever the words are that we that we usually forget. So is there any way out of this? The most powerful nation on the world is led by your word, nutter. How how do we extricate ourselves? How do we call? Well, we don't. That's the point. We do not.

There is no way to do this. Well, how is it managed, though? I mean, what is the I mean, what's terrifying here is where it could end. Yeah. I mean, it could end literally anywhere. He's he's. this is I mean, let's go the. I think it's important to understand what we're saying here, that the United States. government is run by a madman, a man. who cannot perceive reality.

And, and and no doubt this goes in and out. But, you know, on the. the 2020 election is clearly an obsession that he cannot get clarity on. He cannot see the truth they're unwilling to see. I don't even think it's as unwilling or unable to see the truth there. So I don't know what happens. This is a this is a I mean, it's. just about the worst situation you can possibly think of.

And and we are in it now. Let's directly so the, the direct question is. how will this impact the midterm elections? I tend to think that he will try to impact this. This speech is an effort to do this. This speech is an effort to get this. the Save America Act pass, which apparently will not happen. So he is mad enough.

Maybe this is the good news. He is mad enough to do things that are essentially counterproductive. He can't accomplish his goals because he's mad and. and people stand back from him and say, oh, okay. Yeah. So that's the that's the good news. But the bad news is that. that that. this could become extreme, that he could step in, that he could. he could do things, use his power in a way that violates the law and that the law.

is not strong enough to stand up to or the law. or the law takes too long to. to stand up to to what he does unilaterally. Well, you know who's not put off by this? Natalie Harp Natalie Harp has been trotting round beside the president. She was with him in Pennsylvania. She was with him at Trump Tower, and she was with him.

at the UN, where he discussed soccer with, as he's being known now, sycophants know, the head of FIFA. And it led me to think, Where is Melania in all this? We haven't seen Melania since July the 4th. Where does she go, Michael? Where did she go? Well, well, two two things. Natalie Harp is always with him, so it doesn't. It's not. You don't have to point out when she is with him.

The answer is she is always with him. She is by his side. The one person constantly by his side. And as for Melania, we don't have to ask that either. It's a marriage that does not exist in any conventional sense, that conventional sense being that the two married people. spend time together because they know. And where is she? She's in New York. She's been Trump Tower. But but how is it possible?

Just does she never leave Trump Tower? I mean, you never have sightings of her. She's never spotted. What is she doing? Is she is this is another thing. It's in in in Toronto. No, but this is another another thing. You know, I found it intriguing that this new New York Times. book about the regime change, the Maggie Haberman. book. Exactly, exactly does not mention or barely mentions Melania.

And I mean she. which is which is interesting because she is a. vital, important question to this administration within the white House. It's always a major worry, Melania, what is she doing? Because nobody knows what she's doing. What might she do? Well, she has enormous power if she uses it. to do all kinds of things that might be destabilizing to the white House. But this book, that book.

doesn't deal with this because there are really two, two reasons. There is this this kind of convention news, traditional news convention. that you don't you don't. you don't make the president's. spouse or his minor children issues. It's just a kind of bubble of of privacy. Even though you obviously have a marriage here that's very, very problematic.

I mean, in the first administration, you know, everybody was aware. that she wasn't living in the white House, but nobody in the news media really went to figure out where she lives. Likewise. Likewise now. But the other side of this, too, is that everybody's afraid of her. She you know, she has this or the white House has. We don't actually know where this is coming from. The white House has a legal machine that will come after you.

That is the thing. Do not let anyone. try to peel. back whatever this story really is. And, you know, people are afraid of that. That gives us a moment to just find out. Where are you in your case with Melania Trump? Federal judge has dismissed the case but not ruled on the merits of the case. So we are now appealing that ruling to the Second Circuit. We expect to prevail on that.

It also might mean that we go back to state court because there isn't a real. So it becomes a kind of complicated issue. Meanwhile, they have they are asking us for. asking the court to level sanctions against my lawyer. So there's a lawyer in Florida by the name of Alejandro Brito, who does most of these handles, most of the libel litigations. Now, he, in turn, has just been a federal judge in Florida,

has, has, has referred him to the Florida Bar. for disciplinary proceedings because of. because he filed the lawsuit, the lawsuit against the IRS, the Trump against the IRS, the slush fund case, the 1.8 billion slush fund case, which this this judge, this federal judge deemed.

to be in a in a abuse of the. of of the process here. because the president of the United States cannot reasonably sue himself. So at any rate, this. this lawyer has moved for sanctions against my lawyers, and this now becomes a tributary on this case, the sanctions dispute. The federal judge has said, well, she's going to rule against Trump and, and this, this lawyer, and then.

has suggested that that them filing. this suit is cause for us to file. to ask for sanctions against them. So the whole point and this is a Trump litigation point, this will now go on. They will file their their their request for sanctions. They will be overruled. They will go to the second Circuit. They will be overruled.

That will go then to the Supreme Court, meanwhile, costing us, you know, another, you know, 100, $200,000. That's their play, right? That's their play. And actually, the judge in Miami's decision. against allowing the $1.8 billion fund was a scathing report. It got somewhat buried in the news because there's just been so much going on. But you did see John Cornyn, and I think we discussed this on Thursday,

filleting Todd Blanch about this. and asking whether or not the slush fund, which in theory is supposed to go to people. who think that the justice system has been weaponized. against them, including possibly the January 6th protesters, that it's been well and truly laid to rest. And Todd Blanch actually couldn't assure him of that. He said it had been laid to rest, but actually nothing's been signed.

There's no paperwork to shut it down completely. And John Cornyn, senator from Texas, who, as we've repeatedly reminded people, has been primaried by Trump. And now Texas voters are going to have the choice between James Talarico, the Democrat seminarian, or the corrupt. Ken Paxton, former AG. He was the one most effective against Todd Blanche.

Yeah. Texas AG. yeah. No, we're where to where to begin with. the extraordinary aspects of virtually everything that you have just said. So maybe we should just pass over and go on to something else over it, but I will recommend reading it to people. It's the sort of 50 page report, and it is utterly scathing of. of this case and the foolishness of bringing it. and the outrage of a $1.8 billion.

fund to compensate Donald Trump. Before we move on from the from the speech, let's call it the totally deranged speech. There was a there was a detail in the speech where he. he went after the networks, ABC. and NBC for not carrying the speech, a speech which, by the way, had little or no news value. And the networks have always, you know, run this balance.

Is this a political speech or is this a speech of, of, of involving critical information for the nation? And they try to reasonably, reasonably balance that? Clearly this was absolutely a political speech. And ABC and NBC decided not to run it. now in their their cable affiliates, by the way, did run. It's not as if people could not get access to this speech. This was not closed down at all.

But the major networks, ABC and NBC, decided not to run it. But there was one network, of course, that did run it, and that's CBS, which is or. we should now call it the Ellison's CBS. CBS has been taken over by. the family of Larry Ellison, the tech. billionaire, 100 times, 200 times over,

who is one of the president's. one of the pillars of the president's support. We haven't actually discussed how Trump appeared in that speech, and I thought he appeared just appeared exhausted. And in fact, Hugh, Doctor, our executive editor, pointed out that. the only time he really came to life was when he was actually attacking. ABC and NBC and saying that they should have their licenses withdrawn. That was when he showed a moment of high tea, as Hegseth would probably.

refer to a testosterone moment where he suddenly came to life. You. I thought you were going somewhere. Some British thing, a high tea reference. I wish it were high. I wish he was. I wish she was indulging in scones instead of whatever he's indulging in. But he seemed he seemed bored by his own speech. He seemed bored by it. It. It must be this. As you've said, it just sort of runs through his head all the time.

Well, no, I'll tell you why. He seemed bored with it. Because there's a whole group of people in, in, in the white House. who are trying to put some guard. who tried to put some guardrails on that speech, who tried, you know, and it's believe me that it's heavy lifting to impose some, some at least shallow rationality on it. And he actually comes alive when you get rid of all that,

when it's just ranting and raving. and him waving weird numbers around when him when he's he, he comes alive when when he is really able to show the full extent of his madness. Well, and of course, he didn't have his regular teleprompter guy there. because he's been whisked away for basically. trading on Kalki, where he was making. prediction bets on what Donald Trump was going to talk about.

But I thought, how high must his stress have been? I think his name's Gabriel Perez. When he was operating the teleprompter, knowing that in all likelihood. Trump was at any moment about to veer wildly off the script. in front of him and start extempore on his crazy weaves. Anyway, he's on unpaid leave. He's been suspended from the white House. I think he's actually avoided being charged, but clearly all sorts.

of shenanigans that that the teleprompter. operator is getting in on the grift. Well, everyone is getting in on the grift, obviously, but and we should there's a new level of grief that has come up. I mean, this one is really I mean, of all the gifts, which I mean, this was this one really, I think is is, you know, the only people. that aren't getting in on the Griff, Michael, are the American people.

The American people are not getting in on the grift. Well, here's an opportunity. They're being offered an opportunity to get in on. How do I know this is not a real opportunity? Go on. So but so truth social, you know, every time I want to, I say. truth, I want to kind of knock my head against the wall, you know? So truth social. Untruth social is a social media network. started by by by Donald Trump.

The point about social media networks is this is the network effect. that a social media network succeeds because because it attracts. so many people, it's irresistible, because everybody is a part of it. And Truth Social, that's social network. has only one person on it, which is Donald Trump. And as I've said before, throughout the campaign,

the Trump staff was grateful for the fact that. that that his mad ravings, untruths, social were not seen by anybody because nobody was on it. So. But they are now seen by by many people because he's. the president of the United States. What he posts on Truth Social will then be echoed. throughout the throughout the media. And it has major effects. I mean, what they say is that these are market moving comments. When Trump says something, the stock market reacts okay.

Therefore this is of what he says. There can be of real value to someone, to someone who can, who can anticipate what he's going to say, which is. which is basically what the the teleprompter guide did. He had the information before anyone else. Now, what Truth Social is offering people the opportunity. Anybody, us, anybody to pay for access.

to Trump's posts before others people. Therefore, you will have this information. on a semi exclusive basis and then you can do what you want. You can potentially trade on it before other people. So so let's get the nature of this grift. You give money to Donald Trump.

so that you can have an advantage over. other investors in the stock market. Well, it's not righteous. It's basically asking people to pay. to get the president's new policy statements right. He's monetizing his platform as the president. And these are things that he should just be able to put out there. He's the president. He should say these things. We should all have access to it.

I really think it's an extraordinary development. And actually, it's also you say we could take advantage of it. It's preposterous on every basis. It's preposterous on every basis. And it's no surprise that the teleprompter operator was thinking, well, I want to get into this, but I just I cannot. imagine his his anxiety listening to the president. expecting him to go off of peace. at any moment on the teleprompter and his bet being worthless.

You know, there is just a flag, one thing which we should keep our eyes on. If in fact the. the midterms are successful for the Democrats in the House. and then also possibly in the Senate, this. the grift will become a focus. It it doesn't seem as much of a. focus as I would have thought it should do. Well, I think one of the reasons that that there isn't a.

because there's so much of it, but but there's there's no. there's no way to deal with it, you know, that's what you have. You have you have you have a Congress. who won't step in and, and exert. any kind of, of supervision over the behavior of the president. Meanwhile, Michael, the other thing I found odd about him. doing this speech on Thursday night is we are a country.

It was, I think, our fourth day bombing Iran. The Strait of Hormuz is, in effect, closed. I think ten ships got out yesterday. And. what was. interesting about listening to JD Vance on Joe Rogan was him. talking about Iran and making it clear that. that he wasn't in favor of it, which we know, but reemphasize that. Let's let's hear the clip. If it was your call, would you have done exactly the same thing?

Well, what are the the president said. publicly that JD was less. enthusiastic about it, I think was the exact phrase that he used. I mean, my attitude towards this man, as you know, as the vice president, I'm not a public commentator. Like my job is to give the best advice I can to the president. of the United States. I think he's said a little bit about what that advice was. But once the president makes a decision, so long as I think that it's, you know, legal and ethical and all that stuff, and I certainly think.

whether you agree or disagree with it, what we've done has been has been legal. My attitude towards it is I try to make it as successful as possible. He says. He's not a public commentator. All he does is comment in public. No, I think it's I think it's it's it's pretty notable here. What's what's going on? I mean, we're at this at some point in the second terms, you always flip over into the lame duck. into a lame duck mode, into lame duck.

You know, the the president is, is is is going. his his power is draining out. Someone has to replace him. And I think that competition is beginning now. And I'd also take this as an indication, as advance indication. that he thinks they're going to lose the midterms in a substantial way. It starts now. It's not starting after after the midterms. I think from the vantage point of view, it is also seen.

the Iran situation as worsening. Critical, dire. Here is here is not only a war that was a bad idea to begin with. Now it's a war that you can't get out of, and that war is going to be around. Donald Trump's neck, but it's going to also be around the neck. of anybody in this administration, including JD Vance. So he's pedaling as fast as he can, pedaling as fast as he can.

I listen to two hours of this. Three our conversation. And I did come away with a new appreciation of. of JD Vance articulation, but I thought there was something masterful. when Joe Rogan asked him this, that question, would you do the same? Would you do the same thing that that JD Vance. put into the president's mouth, actually JD Vance stance. So he goes, well, I think the president said that, you know, this was whatever he said specifically.

This was not my this was not my idea. But I thought it was masterful the way he did that. So he didn't have to say. I thought it was crazy idea. that we go into Iran, that we start bombing the hell out of them. He said, well, I think the president told you, I just thought it was a very smart piece of, of sort of. avoiding actually the calculation here on Vance's part. And this is threading the needle.

Is that Trump? He will not rouse Trump's. ire for his equivocation. And because that as soon as that happens and that very easily could happen, then JD's chances for the nomination, the Republican nomination plumbing. Well, and that's that's my point, that he he very cleverly put into the president's mouth. the president describing JD Vance as not having been entirely on board.

for the Iran war. And then, of course, he says, well, I, you know, did my best. Once the decision was made, I did my best to make sure that it happened effectively. Yeah, I'm a Trump may be mad, but he's not a dummy, especially when it comes to issues of loyalty and betrayal. So if he smells a fish here, a rotten fish, he will heal, you know? I mean, I would say he makes it. Trump makes an effort to do the political thing,

and then he can't make the effort anymore and you're screwed. Well, I wonder if he'll make the effort to actually listen to it, though. I mean, perhaps Natalie Hart will just print out for him. That's exactly what, Natalie. That's exactly what Natalie will do. That's exactly her job. And she will say. And that that's actually an interesting subtext. What are what are Natalie Harp's views of JD?

And it's very possible that her views are not positive. And then she will undermine JD with Trump. I wonder if Laura Luma has tried to undermine JD Vance with Trump. Laura Loomer, who is this fringe figure, seems to have. a strange, strangely effective. impact on on Trump. She's gotten several people fired. I would also like to know, in fact, we should do an episode on this.

What do the important people around Trump think about JD Vance? And are they sowing poison about JD Vance to Donald Trump? Right. And just let me say that that that your description of Laura Loomer. as a fringe person, it's the fringe people who have the influence with Trump. Okay. So so another place where JD Vance. puts a wedge in between him and Donald Trump.

is talking about the release of the Epstein files on Joe Rogan. Let's let's actually play that clip to, again, like, say this with all candor, like, we absolutely screwed up. the comms of the Epstein files like we just did. But do I think the reason we screwed up the comms is because we were trying to. hide something? No, we screwed up the comms. We screwed up. I would say I empathize with all. Yes, with all due candor. When somebody says, with all due candor,

you know that it's there is it's there's no Canada. There's no candor. Yeah. No. Again. And here, here, here too, I mean, I think I think JD, I think we can start. to make book on when JD is going to be. incur the wrath of Donald Trump. because he's distancing himself on all of these key issues. And these are all MAGA issues by the by the way. So again, it's trying to speak to that to that base.

But MAGA base doesn't want forever wars. And we've got Iran. So we're separating himself from that. And now we've got the Epstein files, something the MAGA base and many of the cabinet. You think of Cash Patel, you think of Dan Bongino, former deputy of the FBI, who left earlier this year demanding the release of the Epstein files. And then you've got JD very much saying. with all candor that the release of them was a mess.

He then goes on to throw Pam Bondi under the bus, which is a bit late. because she's already been under the bus and been reversed back over. No, and I found it. There's later on in that clip, basically. Basically, JD Vance says that Epstein was. an intelligence asset of the Israelis and of the Americans. Now, I mean, this is he puts this in in speculative terms, but.

which is curious because he's the vice president of the United States. So I guess he would know. And but he clearly isn't isn't saying that. Probably because actually he doesn't know. Likely because it actually isn't even true. Okay. There was another point he made to about the awful. Michelle Obama is a man joke at the UFC. Remember, Joe Rogan was interviewing one of the fighters. and he said, Michelle Obama is a man.

And I, by the way, have heard the President. Trump make this joke. and go on at length about her big shoulders. And what do you think? Don't you think, Bob, you know, this. kind of extraordinary again? Okay, well, let's hear JD Vance passing it now. What an amped up fighter told a joke after a fight, said something after a fight, and that's actually national news. I'm still surprised.

I've been in politics now for 3 or 4 years. I'm still shocked. The shit that people get really fired up about, well, I kind of understand it because it's at the white House. First of all, I want to flag one thing there. That was, I've been in politics for 3 or 4 years. Oh, I know, I was thinking that too. I hadn't noticed that when we cut that clip, I hadn't actually focused on that. But but what are your thoughts on him saying that? Well, as I say, I mean, I have always thought.

that that was a, that the that the big news here is not a. Yeah, it's not a fighter. I mean that was a, you know, I mean, I don't think the UFC should. have had a fight at the white House. If you're going to have the UFC. at the white House, you're going to have UFC fighters who are, you know, I mean, I don't know what they are, but that is what. the president of the United States has said over and over and over again. Michelle Obama is a man.

If she, you know, I call her Mike because she's a man. Because haven't you ever seen those shoulders who gets shoulders like that? She's really a man. And he says it in the way you think, oh my God, does he actually believe this? Well, actually, Barack Obama, Michelle's husband, actually had something to say. about JD Vance and his family, his wife on Malcolm Gladwell's podcast this week. When you have the vice president,

current vice president making a speech that is basically. a blood and soil version of we the people that, you know, it matters who. your parents were and how long they've been here. Despite him being married to an immigrant daughter of an immigrant himself. Thoughts? You know, my thoughts about Barack Obama. You know why? Why not more? Why not? On top of all of these issues?

Yeah, you can say something about JD Vance, but. you could have said something over months and months. and months of this. So, I, I'm mystified. why Barack a by Barack Obama's. reticence on the fact that. this country is being led by these people. Okay. Well, we will be back on Tuesday.

I'm sure the Earth will have turned and there'll be more podcasts to discuss more. JD Vance hawking his book, communion. We should come back and do a special issue on JD Vance. Yeah, let's let's, let's let's definitely do that. I mean, he's kind of a fascinating character actually, actually, because he clearly isn't stupid, as many other people surrounding the president are. Yeah. And as he says, he's only been in politics for 3 or 4 years.

What else can he succeed at just doing it for? I wonder I wonder if that's I wonder if that's a tested kind of calling card. I'm not an insider. I've only been here for, you know, ten minutes. I really am not like Marco Rubio, who's been a politician. or, you know, who's been. I hadn't thought of that. But yeah, that probably is true. Yeah. That he's deliberately positioning himself still as a quasi outsider. Before we go, I just want to flag that Andy Burnham.

is, as we've discussed before, but on this story is is shortly. to become the prime minister of your country. And let's just ask the question, because I think. it's a reasonable and important political question. Can a smile solve everything? Well, it's possible a smile can solve everything. I am not saying that. Yes. No, I think it's a.

In New York City, we have a mayor whose smile is, for the moment, solving everything. Yes. And Mamdani agreed not to have an increase in his salary. I thought that was a very clever piece of maneuvering. When asked if he was going to take. what he was entitled to as an increase in his salary. He came back with a very good response, which must have been tested, which is when I was going door to door. No one was concerned about the mayor not being paid enough, and I'm not either.

But Andy Burnham is is an interesting politician in Britain. And this will be, I think, the seventh prime minister in ten years in the UK. So getting into Italy, like disruption and. a very. popular mayor in Manchester, Greater Manchester, in the northern part of the UK, and I still don't fully understand why. Keir Starmer, the former prime minister who just resigned,

was quite so unpopular he had no ability to to present a vision. He was a very weak public speaker and he had come from the background. of of his lawyer and he'd run the Crown Prosecution Service. Well, just let me point out that you you just asked the question. which you just said, you didn't understand why he was so unpopular. And then you outlined exactly why he is so unpopular. But let me also add to that that he was unpopular because he he had a.

he didn't have much of a smile. He had no smile. He had the opposite of a smile. He had a sort of strange rictus on his face. And unfortunately, he had a very, a very sort of tight voice. Voice matters in politics. And he had a terrible voice, a sort of adenoid voice. Anyway, he's now gone, and the ructions came from within his own party. that the Labor Party rejected the organ of Keir Starmer,

despite the fact he'd got them elected after 14 years of Tory rule. But they've tossed him out. One of their. And the interesting thing was that Andy Burnham, the new incoming. prime minister, on Monday he'll be presented as prime minister. Another MP. had to stand down, had to vacate his seat by the rules of Parliament. So Andy Burnham had a by election.

Won that seat. Makerfield again in the north of England and then. 300 Members of Parliament in the Labor Party, voted for him to become Prime Minister, to become the leader of the party. It's a really remarkable development in the UK. Well, we don't know really what Andy Burnham's policies are. We don't know what. He certainly didn't run on anything much more than that.

He was better than Keir Starmer. But the the thing about Andy Burnham. is that he does seem to be a very, very good politician. And Keir Starmer and his the, the various of the people who preceded him. in the job seemed to be terrible politicians, terrible politicians. And I always want to remind people that the first decision he made. was to cut old people's heating subsidies. It was to cut pensioners heating subsidies for a labor government.

That's got to be the most perverse thing you could possibly do, and he never really recovered from it. Well, let's see if Andy Burnham is a smile. and his talents as a politicians keep him in office. for a bit, at least a bit longer than then. Well, all he's got to do is so many people have preceded him. Well, I was going to say all he has to do is last longer than a head of lettuce,

which is the shortest one, and hopefully not lettuce from Mexico. That that caused explosive. explosive results. If you ate it. I think we're going to avoid Taco Bell for the next few weeks. I'm sure you're just eating fresh, organic lettuce that you've hand. washed in the tears of virgins in that I have. I can go beyond that. That grows in my backyard. Okay. That grows in your backyard.

Well, Michael, we should, we should. Perhaps we should have some performative lettuce eating on this podcast. At any rate, I will see you on Tuesday. I will see you on Tuesday. Big thanks to our production team. I'm just going to let you do it. Okay. Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passa, Heather Pissarro, Neil Rosen, the house and Max the intern has left.

So that's his final shout out. And I remember him well. See you on Tuesday. See ya. So the good news is we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.